December 20, 2022 • 28 mins
If you think about Italy, what comes to your head? Sunny beaches, pizza, pasta, fashion, supercars…
But in addition to that Italy is a huge market for exporters from all over the world. Many different regions with own peculiarities and needs.
We discussed how to export to this sunny European country with a special guest of our Start Global Insights Christmas episode Dario Peirone, the chairman of the board of CEIPIEMONTE.
From the episode you will know:
- What’s the difference between the regions of Italy
- Where is the best place to do business with Italians
- What’s common between space and Italy
- What is the business and negotiation culture
- Where to look for local partners
- What to keep in mind when choosing a local agent
- And much more as usual…
Don't miss the next episode, subscribe to the Start Global Insights podcast on all major platforms and YouTube.
Speakers LinkedIn Profiles:
Guest, Dario Peirone https://www.linkedin.com/in/dario-peirone-343a474
Host, Dmytro Shvets https://www.linkedin.com/in/dshvets/
Please, give us your feedback on Apple podcasts or write to the email: podcast@start-global.biz
This podcast is made in a partnership with Do Business With Ukrainians, the platform of Ukrainian business teams you can work with now Work with verified teams.
Access the best, trustworthy small and medium businesses. You may request cooperation with Ukrainian business here: https://www.dobizwithua.com/
Create your international expansion strategy with Start Global, your guide to foreign markets. https://www.start-global.biz/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi, I'm Dmytro Shvets.
(00:06):
Your host at the start Global Insights, where I interview local experts in different countries
about local insights and international expansion experience.
In this Christmas episode, we will talk about magical and beautiful Italy with our guest
Dario Peirone.
Dario is the chairman of the board at Piemonte Agency for International Business Development,
(00:28):
the organization that helps foreign businesses to enter in Italian markets and assists Italian
companies from Piemonte region in their international expansion.
Buongiorno Dario.
Buongiorno.
Good morning to everyone.
Dario, unfortunately, in my international experience, I have not had much opportunity
(00:48):
to deal with Italy business-wise.
But even as a tourist, I felt quite a big difference between different regions in Italy.
And as far as I know, the local regulations and procedures for the same business activities
vary according to the municipality.
What should foreign business consider in connection with this?
(01:10):
I think your impression is absolutely right.
There is a huge difference between the regions in Italy.
And there is a huge difference not only regarding the, let's say, administrative procedures,
but also regarding the funds.
So for example, the regions in the south, they have a lot of funds, for example, for
(01:33):
attracting investment from abroad.
So why they are not so successful in attracting investment from abroad that usually goes to
the north of Italy?
The point is that money is not enough, because actually you need, especially, I mean, modern
companies that want to do business maybe in tech or in innovative fields, they need much
(02:00):
more than money.
They need an ecosystem.
They need other companies to cooperate, to work with.
They need a logistic system that is quite developed.
And so sometimes it happens that even if the regions in the south have a lot of funds that
they can use for investment attraction, actually many companies are coming to the north.
(02:27):
Of course, I mean, there are also companies that are going to the south because the south
of Italy has some specific fields where they are very strong.
For example, food is one of them.
In Piemonte, the problem is that we are one of the regions that has less funds devoted
(02:51):
to investment attractions because we are considered, let's say, a traditionally quite rich region
in economic sense.
We are historically the manufacturing region of Italy.
We were the house of Fiat, the automotive factory that now is called Stellantis in the
(03:12):
group with Peugeot.
We have a lot of manufacturing companies in various fields.
We have been the house of textile in Italy with the district of Biella that is still
one of the strongest in the world.
We are a very strong region regarding food.
(03:34):
We are the house of Ferrero and Lavazza, just to say two big companies that probably everybody
knows.
Now we are also among the regions that are more innovative.
We devote a lot of money to research and development, particularly from the private sector.
(03:55):
This is quite an exception in Italy because actually it's rare that the private sector
finances so much the R&D.
We are becoming, well, I would say we are now the region of space in Italy.
Actually 60% of the space station has been manufactured in Turin and all the big companies
(04:19):
around the world are establishing some branch here in Turin to work with the very vibrant
ecosystem of space companies that we have in our region.
So as you can see, it's completely different the motivation to invest in the South, in
the North, in Lombardy or in Piemonte.
(04:43):
Everything changes.
You are absolutely right.
Moving to the sectors, here were the potential cooperation fields.
According to the import statistics, the biggest share is the commodities like oil and gas
followed by medicine and electricity.
But to your opinion, what would have the demand in Italy from the point of view of value added
(05:07):
goods?
Is it possible to export something like you already have?
As I teach to my student of international economics, trade is beneficial for both paths.
We import a lot of foods, for example, even if we are a very strong nation regarding food,
(05:29):
we import a lot of food from Spain and from the Mediterranean in general.
So I think that there is no limit to the effect of doing business.
So I would say that this is absolutely frequent also in all over Italy, because actually I
see that in the South, in the North, without any difference.
(05:53):
For example, we have a vibrant ecosystem in space and a fantastic amount of companies
that are dealing with space industry and space economy.
One of the last companies that came to Piemonte and established a branch in Piemonte is a
company of a guy that comes from Ukraine, where he was actually one of the youngest
(06:17):
president of the Ukrainian Space Agency.
And he decided to come to Piemonte because he thought that he could have easier business
relationship with other companies, even if he is the CEO of a very innovative company
(06:38):
based on technology and very value added products.
So I think it's absolutely possible for everyone.
Okay, let's imagine that Ukrainian electric equipment producing company is willing to
enter Italy.
What kind of steps or roadmap would you suggest them to take?
(07:01):
You have to understand exactly where it is more convenient for you to come.
For example, maybe you can be interested in working with a big player.
This big player is based in Venet or in Lombardy and you will try to establish your branch
in Venet or in Lombardy.
There are multiple occasions for that.
(07:23):
You can come for a fair, you can organize a mission or something like that.
You will have some help from the local agency for that.
And if you want them to invest, as I was saying, it depends from the regions, but usually you
have an entity, public or semi-public, that will help you to find, for example, the location
(07:50):
to get in touch with the right actors for having fun.
Having fun and having fun.
I hope so, yes.
We are working mostly with small and middle enterprises and they are mostly like in B2B
(08:11):
or something like that.
And I believe that they will start initially not with investing in the region, but in selling
with the region.
And in my experience of working with embassies and governmental organizations of some country,
they are mostly dedicated to the support of investments in the country and helping own
(08:33):
companies to go internationally.
In particular, we are devoted to small and medium enterprises and to stimulate B2B.
For example, Amazon invested in Piemonte with two big facilities.
And Amazon doesn't need our support to invest.
(08:55):
They arrive and they decide whatever they want.
So we are absolutely devoted only to the small and medium enterprises support.
But I would say that also the Italian Trade Agency, that as I said, is the Italian body
for that, is also working a lot with this B2B development.
In my practice, it is better to talk to real local players about that, to understand the
(09:22):
games of rules at the market.
How easy it is in Italy to get this cold context without introduction?
I think it's very easy.
In Italy, it's much more complicated to have contacts with the public entities than with
the private ones.
So for example, the private small medium enterprises are absolutely open.
(09:48):
And the entrepreneur himself or herself is really willing to do business.
Of course, if you go towards big companies, big organizations, and in particular public
institutions or state-owned companies or something like that, it's another world.
(10:10):
In that case, it's better to have an introduction.
You have to understand which are the right people to contact.
It's a different thing.
But with small medium enterprises, no problem.
Talking about the B2B events, you mentioned a lot about the international fairs abroad.
(10:32):
How it is popular still to have B2B events in Italy?
So is it worth going there and meet people?
Milan, of course, is the center of this kind of events.
There are an incredible amount of B2B fairs and other events in Lombardy.
(10:53):
But also, all around Italy, it is organized.
In particular, for example, in Piemonte, we as an agency take care of the organization
of two big events, one about aerospace, that is the aerospace and defense meetings.
That is the biggest business convention in Italy in this sector.
(11:15):
And the VTM, the vehicle transportation meeting about mobility, that is also a very big business
convention about mobility.
And they both are held in Turin.
Is there any other sources, like common sources in Italy, where you could find your clients?
If it would be you entering Italy, where would you go to generate potential leads for your
(11:40):
B2B partnership or cooperation?
Most of the time, people come directly to the events.
And they are trying to sell their products, entrepreneur to entrepreneur, that's for sure.
You can find the agents also.
For example, we have some contacts with people that represent in Italy a portfolio of foreign
(12:04):
companies and their products.
And so, of course, they are working actively on that.
If you don't know the country, you don't know how to check, how to background check the
potential partner, you can say in this situation when this agent is actually not working.
How to know whether he really has this contacts in the country or he at least exists as a
(12:32):
legal entity in the country?
First of all, to check the portfolio of clients of the agent.
Then you can check, for example, through the embassy, if it is a real entity or not, because
they have a list.
In any case, you should at least in the beginning start asking to pay with success fees and
(12:59):
not with the standard contract.
It is possible, it is allowed, many agents work in this way.
And so, I think this is a good way to check the affordability of your possible partner.
If we go further, more understanding the Italians, how would you describe the business culture
(13:22):
in Italy if there is such, if you can feel that it is to some extent different?
And what should be considered when you are starting sales to Italy in terms of this business
culture?
The majority of entrepreneurs, especially in the center north of Italy, are very good.
They are really at high level regarding business culture.
(13:46):
The problem is that we have few entrepreneurs with respect to what we would like to have.
So we would like to have more entrepreneurs.
But unfortunately, in general, in Italy, there has been a shift since, I would say, the 80s
onwards toward the public employment instead of the entrepreneurship activity.
(14:12):
But the entrepreneurs that we have are really, really good.
It's very difficult that you can sign a contract or sign a deal directly at a fair, for example,
or a B2B meeting.
But I would say that if they are convinced of the product, of the company, of the other
fair, everything is quite fast and there is not really a problem.
(14:37):
Of course, once you shake hands at the business fair, it doesn't mean that the deal is concluded.
And that's the difference with respect to other culture.
For example, in Israel, we have this problem that when you shake hands at the business
meeting, they think that the deal is concluded and everything is okay.
(14:59):
And you come back to Italy just to prepare the contract.
No, it's not like that.
But on the other hand, it's not even something that they will forget about you as soon as
they will come back to Italy.
Not at all.
Italy is an export country.
So we made business from all over the world.
(15:20):
How do you think in connection with this idea you just mentioned, we are talking about exporters
to Italy and Italy at the same time is a very exporting country.
So maybe when you are exporting to Italy, you should consider those industries that
could use your part of the product to build own one and then re-export that to other countries.
(15:43):
Well, actually, it happens.
It happens that there are companies that, for example, are from the Mediterranean, the
Middle East, or even Asia that come to Italy as a door for Europe, for example, as a gate
for Europe.
It's also nice to have this brand, let's say, Italy, because most of the time, there
(16:09):
are some quality requirements that are connected with the Italian export.
So it is also good for this reason.
We have a good reputation for quality and the Italian brand is quite recognized.
And when you are starting negotiations already with Italian companies, what should you know
(16:30):
about the meeting culture in Italy?
The best business in Italy probably are made at lunch or dinner.
So a secret to, let's say, finalizing the best way, a deal is to organize a nice lunch
(16:50):
or dinner with the Italian entrepreneur, because we are a country where this is very much appreciated.
How open and transparent are Italians in business negotiations in general?
How common it is to have a hidden agenda, for example?
I think it really depends on the entrepreneurs.
(17:13):
Very young entrepreneurs, startups, something like that, they are always in what I call
the pitch mode.
So they are always presenting themselves much better than it is the real situation.
But if you are experienced, you just made the right questions and you immediately understand
(17:33):
at which level they are and if they have a business model or not.
If you have to talk with established small medium enterprise that usually are owned by
the same family since generation and they are very solid in their business, in their
products, there is not really an issue of transparency.
(17:56):
If you ask, of course, for a secret patent or something like that, maybe they will say
to you, I'm not going to disclose that.
But if you don't make jokes about Italian or about mafia or something like that, where
maybe especially in the north, we are very sensitive to that.
(18:21):
I have prepared one joke about the mafia at the end of our conversations.
So I will be already on the light.
Yeah, exactly.
Is the English common language, common business language?
So how important it is to know Italian to make business in Italy and starting from conversation
(18:42):
and ending with marketing materials?
A lot of companies, unfortunately, are not so fluent in English.
So maybe they are able to, but sometimes they will take with them people to talk to in English.
And this creates a problem because, of course, it's not entrepreneur to entrepreneur, but
(19:04):
it has something in the middle.
So of course, knowing Italian and speaking Italian, it's very different.
It facilitates all the situation.
But if you go to companies that are established since a long time, maybe there is the new
(19:25):
generation of the family that is running the company.
But there is really no problem in interacting in English.
And in terms of marketing materials, like website or brochures, should you have them
in Italian as well?
I would say that you can start in English and then understand in the market.
It's not necessary to have a site in Italian immediately if you don't know yet the market
(19:50):
you are going to.
According to your opinion, has the war in Ukraine influenced the Italian business economy
in general?
This war has taken everybody really in surprise because we were not used to have a war in
(20:11):
Europe really.
So the situation completely changed, the international situation, also the cost in general have been
impacted by this war.
There were many business relations with Russia, with the Russian federations from the Italian
(20:32):
companies.
And there were many business relations with Ukraine from Italy.
And so actually it impacted in both ways because it was difficult to do business with Ukraine
and it was almost impossible from one day to another really to make business with Russia.
(20:53):
For example, we had even big companies dealing with oil extraction and electricity and everything
that were established in the Russian Federation.
And now they are closed.
And we are not talking about small companies.
We were talking about big companies with big investment and big facilities.
(21:16):
And now they are closed.
They are owned by the Russian government.
So you can imagine how things changed in a few months.
And the same was with Ukraine.
I mean, with Ukraine there is still a huge interaction, a huge trade, especially with
respect to some commodities that come from there, either in food or in oil and gas.
(21:44):
But of course, it's problematic because we are talking with all the difficulties connected
with the war and the difficulties of...
Transportation.
Transportation, exactly.
Now the main problem for Italy is about the cost of the inputs.
(22:05):
The price of the inputs has doubled in some cases even more.
And so for Italian companies, it's difficult right now.
I would say not only Italian, all over Europe, but in Germany, for example, they had a lot
of public aid to help German companies to deal with these prices.
(22:28):
In Italy, we don't have such capability of public intervention.
In terms of the business culture or approaches to businesses, if you feel that, did that
influence the decision-making processes, the planning of the small businesses, the behavior
of the market?
(22:49):
Because in Ukraine, for example, we feel that we are now so agile that it's almost impossible.
So you are living under the bombing situation and still you are doing business.
That's why actually it's still possible to make business with Ukrainians.
Do you feel that in Italy, is it changing the DNA of making business among the businessmen?
(23:15):
In Italy, there is a lot of empathy with Ukraine in this moment.
So I must say that there has been a big sentiment of injustice with respect to what happened.
So for sure, in this moment, there are a lot of new relationships that are coming out with
(23:36):
Ukraine exactly because it is something that really let us completely astonished.
I must say that the biggest change I saw was not really from the war, but from the COVID
situation.
So for example, there has been a huge relocation from all European companies to Europe with
(24:04):
respect to Asia.
So for example, we never received so many delegations from Nordic countries, Scandinavian countries.
We had this agreement with the German regions that was also not very frequent to do it in
the past because actually they want to, let's say, relocate the supply chain and have everything
(24:32):
close and actually they are very willing to do business in particular with the north of
Italy because in the north of Italy, they have the same quality, for example, of the
top German players, but at half of the cost.
And so this was a radical change that I saw.
(24:54):
I never saw many delegations like this in the recent years.
Now everybody wants to control their supply chain and not just to delegate from the other
part of the world.
Thank you for that answer and thank you for the whole conversation.
I have now prepared some experiment.
(25:14):
It is called Bleed Squeeze, ruining the stereotypes about Italy.
Because most of the stereotypes I have are connected not with business.
So we always see the Italy through the perspective of very tasty food, amazing landscapes and
(25:35):
a history background.
So I did some of the stereotypes and your task is to answer quickly true or false.
So ready?
Yes.
Italian business culture respects the hierarchical structure, so job titles and responsibilities
(25:56):
are very important.
I would say true.
Yes.
Italians generally like to establish relaxed personal relationships in the business.
Absolutely true.
You need to be careful making business in Sicilia because Italian mafia is still there.
(26:18):
It is true that it is still there, but there are a lot of good entrepreneurs also in Sicily.
Italians are obsessed with fashion, so pay attention to your outfit.
True.
Italians are always late to meetings.
(26:40):
No, false.
Italians are obsessed with food, so be prepared to eat a lot during your business trips.
So that's it.
Yes.
So most of the stereotypes are true about Italy.
That's interesting.
So one final advice to Ukrainian exporters.
Explore the possibilities of doing business to Italy.
(27:03):
You have a lot of these, let's say, bodies like our agency.
So don't consider just, for example, Germany as the place where to do business in Europe.
Italy has a lot of opportunities, a lot of possibilities of doing business together.
So come, see, experience also the beauty of Italy, and I'm sure that there will be possibilities
(27:33):
of doing great things together.
Thank you.
Thank you for being with us at the show and sharing your experience.
Thank you very much.
It was a pleasure for me.
You were listening to the Starred Global Insights, the podcast for businesses looking to expand
globally, with your host, Dmitry Shvets.
Find our episodes on Google and Apple Podcasts and other major platforms, including YouTube.
(27:57):
Don't forget to subscribe not to miss the next episode about another interesting country
and how to make your business there.
Hi, I'm Dmytro Shvets.
(00:06):
Your host at the start Global Insights, where I interview local experts in different countries
about local insights and international expansion experience.
In this Christmas episode, we will talk about magical and beautiful Italy with our guest
Dario Peirone.
Dario is the chairman of the board at Piemonte Agency for International Business Development,
(00:28):
the organization that helps foreign businesses to enter in Italian markets and assists Italian
companies from Piemonte region in their international expansion.
Buongiorno Dario.
Buongiorno.
Good morning to everyone.
Dario, unfortunately, in my international experience, I have not had much opportunity
(00:48):
to deal with Italy business-wise.
But even as a tourist, I felt quite a big difference between different regions in Italy.
And as far as I know, the local regulations and procedures for the same business activities
vary according to the municipality.
What should foreign business consider in connection with this?
(01:10):
I think your impression is absolutely right.
There is a huge difference between the regions in Italy.
And there is a huge difference not only regarding the, let's say, administrative procedures,
but also regarding the funds.
So for example, the regions in the south, they have a lot of funds, for example, for
(01:33):
attracting investment from abroad.
So why they are not so successful in attracting investment from abroad that usually goes to
the north of Italy?
The point is that money is not enough, because actually you need, especially, I mean, modern
companies that want to do business maybe in tech or in innovative fields, they need much
(02:00):
more than money.
They need an ecosystem.
They need other companies to cooperate, to work with.
They need a logistic system that is quite developed.
And so sometimes it happens that even if the regions in the south have a lot of funds that
they can use for investment attraction, actually many companies are coming to the north.
(02:27):
Of course, I mean, there are also companies that are going to the south because the south
of Italy has some specific fields where they are very strong.
For example, food is one of them.
In Piemonte, the problem is that we are one of the regions that has less funds devoted
(02:51):
to investment attractions because we are considered, let's say, a traditionally quite rich region
in economic sense.
We are historically the manufacturing region of Italy.
We were the house of Fiat, the automotive factory that now is called Stellantis in the
(03:12):
group with Peugeot.
We have a lot of manufacturing companies in various fields.
We have been the house of textile in Italy with the district of Biella that is still
one of the strongest in the world.
We are a very strong region regarding food.
(03:34):
We are the house of Ferrero and Lavazza, just to say two big companies that probably everybody
knows.
Now we are also among the regions that are more innovative.
We devote a lot of money to research and development, particularly from the private sector.
(03:55):
This is quite an exception in Italy because actually it's rare that the private sector
finances so much the R&D.
We are becoming, well, I would say we are now the region of space in Italy.
Actually 60% of the space station has been manufactured in Turin and all the big companies
(04:19):
around the world are establishing some branch here in Turin to work with the very vibrant
ecosystem of space companies that we have in our region.
So as you can see, it's completely different the motivation to invest in the South, in
the North, in Lombardy or in Piemonte.
(04:43):
Everything changes.
You are absolutely right.
Moving to the sectors, here were the potential cooperation fields.
According to the import statistics, the biggest share is the commodities like oil and gas
followed by medicine and electricity.
But to your opinion, what would have the demand in Italy from the point of view of value added
(05:07):
goods?
Is it possible to export something like you already have?
As I teach to my student of international economics, trade is beneficial for both paths.
We import a lot of foods, for example, even if we are a very strong nation regarding food,
(05:29):
we import a lot of food from Spain and from the Mediterranean in general.
So I think that there is no limit to the effect of doing business.
So I would say that this is absolutely frequent also in all over Italy, because actually I
see that in the South, in the North, without any difference.
(05:53):
For example, we have a vibrant ecosystem in space and a fantastic amount of companies
that are dealing with space industry and space economy.
One of the last companies that came to Piemonte and established a branch in Piemonte is a
company of a guy that comes from Ukraine, where he was actually one of the youngest
(06:17):
president of the Ukrainian Space Agency.
And he decided to come to Piemonte because he thought that he could have easier business
relationship with other companies, even if he is the CEO of a very innovative company
(06:38):
based on technology and very value added products.
So I think it's absolutely possible for everyone.
Okay, let's imagine that Ukrainian electric equipment producing company is willing to
enter Italy.
What kind of steps or roadmap would you suggest them to take?
(07:01):
You have to understand exactly where it is more convenient for you to come.
For example, maybe you can be interested in working with a big player.
This big player is based in Venet or in Lombardy and you will try to establish your branch
in Venet or in Lombardy.
There are multiple occasions for that.
(07:23):
You can come for a fair, you can organize a mission or something like that.
You will have some help from the local agency for that.
And if you want them to invest, as I was saying, it depends from the regions, but usually you
have an entity, public or semi-public, that will help you to find, for example, the location
(07:50):
to get in touch with the right actors for having fun.
Having fun and having fun.
I hope so, yes.
We are working mostly with small and middle enterprises and they are mostly like in B2B
(08:11):
or something like that.
And I believe that they will start initially not with investing in the region, but in selling
with the region.
And in my experience of working with embassies and governmental organizations of some country,
they are mostly dedicated to the support of investments in the country and helping own
(08:33):
companies to go internationally.
In particular, we are devoted to small and medium enterprises and to stimulate B2B.
For example, Amazon invested in Piemonte with two big facilities.
And Amazon doesn't need our support to invest.
(08:55):
They arrive and they decide whatever they want.
So we are absolutely devoted only to the small and medium enterprises support.
But I would say that also the Italian Trade Agency, that as I said, is the Italian body
for that, is also working a lot with this B2B development.
In my practice, it is better to talk to real local players about that, to understand the
(09:22):
games of rules at the market.
How easy it is in Italy to get this cold context without introduction?
I think it's very easy.
In Italy, it's much more complicated to have contacts with the public entities than with
the private ones.
So for example, the private small medium enterprises are absolutely open.
(09:48):
And the entrepreneur himself or herself is really willing to do business.
Of course, if you go towards big companies, big organizations, and in particular public
institutions or state-owned companies or something like that, it's another world.
(10:10):
In that case, it's better to have an introduction.
You have to understand which are the right people to contact.
It's a different thing.
But with small medium enterprises, no problem.
Talking about the B2B events, you mentioned a lot about the international fairs abroad.
(10:32):
How it is popular still to have B2B events in Italy?
So is it worth going there and meet people?
Milan, of course, is the center of this kind of events.
There are an incredible amount of B2B fairs and other events in Lombardy.
(10:53):
But also, all around Italy, it is organized.
In particular, for example, in Piemonte, we as an agency take care of the organization
of two big events, one about aerospace, that is the aerospace and defense meetings.
That is the biggest business convention in Italy in this sector.
(11:15):
And the VTM, the vehicle transportation meeting about mobility, that is also a very big business
convention about mobility.
And they both are held in Turin.
Is there any other sources, like common sources in Italy, where you could find your clients?
If it would be you entering Italy, where would you go to generate potential leads for your
(11:40):
B2B partnership or cooperation?
Most of the time, people come directly to the events.
And they are trying to sell their products, entrepreneur to entrepreneur, that's for sure.
You can find the agents also.
For example, we have some contacts with people that represent in Italy a portfolio of foreign
(12:04):
companies and their products.
And so, of course, they are working actively on that.
If you don't know the country, you don't know how to check, how to background check the
potential partner, you can say in this situation when this agent is actually not working.
How to know whether he really has this contacts in the country or he at least exists as a
(12:32):
legal entity in the country?
First of all, to check the portfolio of clients of the agent.
Then you can check, for example, through the embassy, if it is a real entity or not, because
they have a list.
In any case, you should at least in the beginning start asking to pay with success fees and
(12:59):
not with the standard contract.
It is possible, it is allowed, many agents work in this way.
And so, I think this is a good way to check the affordability of your possible partner.
If we go further, more understanding the Italians, how would you describe the business culture
(13:22):
in Italy if there is such, if you can feel that it is to some extent different?
And what should be considered when you are starting sales to Italy in terms of this business
culture?
The majority of entrepreneurs, especially in the center north of Italy, are very good.
They are really at high level regarding business culture.
(13:46):
The problem is that we have few entrepreneurs with respect to what we would like to have.
So we would like to have more entrepreneurs.
But unfortunately, in general, in Italy, there has been a shift since, I would say, the 80s
onwards toward the public employment instead of the entrepreneurship activity.
(14:12):
But the entrepreneurs that we have are really, really good.
It's very difficult that you can sign a contract or sign a deal directly at a fair, for example,
or a B2B meeting.
But I would say that if they are convinced of the product, of the company, of the other
fair, everything is quite fast and there is not really a problem.
(14:37):
Of course, once you shake hands at the business fair, it doesn't mean that the deal is concluded.
And that's the difference with respect to other culture.
For example, in Israel, we have this problem that when you shake hands at the business
meeting, they think that the deal is concluded and everything is okay.
(14:59):
And you come back to Italy just to prepare the contract.
No, it's not like that.
But on the other hand, it's not even something that they will forget about you as soon as
they will come back to Italy.
Not at all.
Italy is an export country.
So we made business from all over the world.
(15:20):
How do you think in connection with this idea you just mentioned, we are talking about exporters
to Italy and Italy at the same time is a very exporting country.
So maybe when you are exporting to Italy, you should consider those industries that
could use your part of the product to build own one and then re-export that to other countries.
(15:43):
Well, actually, it happens.
It happens that there are companies that, for example, are from the Mediterranean, the
Middle East, or even Asia that come to Italy as a door for Europe, for example, as a gate
for Europe.
It's also nice to have this brand, let's say, Italy, because most of the time, there
(16:09):
are some quality requirements that are connected with the Italian export.
So it is also good for this reason.
We have a good reputation for quality and the Italian brand is quite recognized.
And when you are starting negotiations already with Italian companies, what should you know
(16:30):
about the meeting culture in Italy?
The best business in Italy probably are made at lunch or dinner.
So a secret to, let's say, finalizing the best way, a deal is to organize a nice lunch
(16:50):
or dinner with the Italian entrepreneur, because we are a country where this is very much appreciated.
How open and transparent are Italians in business negotiations in general?
How common it is to have a hidden agenda, for example?
I think it really depends on the entrepreneurs.
(17:13):
Very young entrepreneurs, startups, something like that, they are always in what I call
the pitch mode.
So they are always presenting themselves much better than it is the real situation.
But if you are experienced, you just made the right questions and you immediately understand
(17:33):
at which level they are and if they have a business model or not.
If you have to talk with established small medium enterprise that usually are owned by
the same family since generation and they are very solid in their business, in their
products, there is not really an issue of transparency.
(17:56):
If you ask, of course, for a secret patent or something like that, maybe they will say
to you, I'm not going to disclose that.
But if you don't make jokes about Italian or about mafia or something like that, where
maybe especially in the north, we are very sensitive to that.
(18:21):
I have prepared one joke about the mafia at the end of our conversations.
So I will be already on the light.
Yeah, exactly.
Is the English common language, common business language?
So how important it is to know Italian to make business in Italy and starting from conversation
(18:42):
and ending with marketing materials?
A lot of companies, unfortunately, are not so fluent in English.
So maybe they are able to, but sometimes they will take with them people to talk to in English.
And this creates a problem because, of course, it's not entrepreneur to entrepreneur, but
(19:04):
it has something in the middle.
So of course, knowing Italian and speaking Italian, it's very different.
It facilitates all the situation.
But if you go to companies that are established since a long time, maybe there is the new
(19:25):
generation of the family that is running the company.
But there is really no problem in interacting in English.
And in terms of marketing materials, like website or brochures, should you have them
in Italian as well?
I would say that you can start in English and then understand in the market.
It's not necessary to have a site in Italian immediately if you don't know yet the market
(19:50):
you are going to.
According to your opinion, has the war in Ukraine influenced the Italian business economy
in general?
This war has taken everybody really in surprise because we were not used to have a war in
(20:11):
Europe really.
So the situation completely changed, the international situation, also the cost in general have been
impacted by this war.
There were many business relations with Russia, with the Russian federations from the Italian
(20:32):
companies.
And there were many business relations with Ukraine from Italy.
And so actually it impacted in both ways because it was difficult to do business with Ukraine
and it was almost impossible from one day to another really to make business with Russia.
(20:53):
For example, we had even big companies dealing with oil extraction and electricity and everything
that were established in the Russian Federation.
And now they are closed.
And we are not talking about small companies.
We were talking about big companies with big investment and big facilities.
(21:16):
And now they are closed.
They are owned by the Russian government.
So you can imagine how things changed in a few months.
And the same was with Ukraine.
I mean, with Ukraine there is still a huge interaction, a huge trade, especially with
respect to some commodities that come from there, either in food or in oil and gas.
(21:44):
But of course, it's problematic because we are talking with all the difficulties connected
with the war and the difficulties of...
Transportation.
Transportation, exactly.
Now the main problem for Italy is about the cost of the inputs.
(22:05):
The price of the inputs has doubled in some cases even more.
And so for Italian companies, it's difficult right now.
I would say not only Italian, all over Europe, but in Germany, for example, they had a lot
of public aid to help German companies to deal with these prices.
(22:28):
In Italy, we don't have such capability of public intervention.
In terms of the business culture or approaches to businesses, if you feel that, did that
influence the decision-making processes, the planning of the small businesses, the behavior
of the market?
(22:49):
Because in Ukraine, for example, we feel that we are now so agile that it's almost impossible.
So you are living under the bombing situation and still you are doing business.
That's why actually it's still possible to make business with Ukrainians.
Do you feel that in Italy, is it changing the DNA of making business among the businessmen?
(23:15):
In Italy, there is a lot of empathy with Ukraine in this moment.
So I must say that there has been a big sentiment of injustice with respect to what happened.
So for sure, in this moment, there are a lot of new relationships that are coming out with
(23:36):
Ukraine exactly because it is something that really let us completely astonished.
I must say that the biggest change I saw was not really from the war, but from the COVID
situation.
So for example, there has been a huge relocation from all European companies to Europe with
(24:04):
respect to Asia.
So for example, we never received so many delegations from Nordic countries, Scandinavian countries.
We had this agreement with the German regions that was also not very frequent to do it in
the past because actually they want to, let's say, relocate the supply chain and have everything
(24:32):
close and actually they are very willing to do business in particular with the north of
Italy because in the north of Italy, they have the same quality, for example, of the
top German players, but at half of the cost.
And so this was a radical change that I saw.
(24:54):
I never saw many delegations like this in the recent years.
Now everybody wants to control their supply chain and not just to delegate from the other
part of the world.
Thank you for that answer and thank you for the whole conversation.
I have now prepared some experiment.
(25:14):
It is called Bleed Squeeze, ruining the stereotypes about Italy.
Because most of the stereotypes I have are connected not with business.
So we always see the Italy through the perspective of very tasty food, amazing landscapes and
(25:35):
a history background.
So I did some of the stereotypes and your task is to answer quickly true or false.
So ready?
Yes.
Italian business culture respects the hierarchical structure, so job titles and responsibilities
(25:56):
are very important.
I would say true.
Yes.
Italians generally like to establish relaxed personal relationships in the business.
Absolutely true.
You need to be careful making business in Sicilia because Italian mafia is still there.
(26:18):
It is true that it is still there, but there are a lot of good entrepreneurs also in Sicily.
Italians are obsessed with fashion, so pay attention to your outfit.
True.
Italians are always late to meetings.
(26:40):
No, false.
Italians are obsessed with food, so be prepared to eat a lot during your business trips.
So that's it.
Yes.
So most of the stereotypes are true about Italy.
That's interesting.
So one final advice to Ukrainian exporters.
Explore the possibilities of doing business to Italy.
(27:03):
You have a lot of these, let's say, bodies like our agency.
So don't consider just, for example, Germany as the place where to do business in Europe.
Italy has a lot of opportunities, a lot of possibilities of doing business together.
So come, see, experience also the beauty of Italy, and I'm sure that there will be possibilities
(27:33):
of doing great things together.
Thank you.
Thank you for being with us at the show and sharing your experience.
Thank you very much.
It was a pleasure for me.
You were listening to the Starred Global Insights, the podcast for businesses looking to expand
globally, with your host, Dmitry Shvets.
Find our episodes on Google and Apple Podcasts and other major platforms, including YouTube.
(27:57):
Don't forget to subscribe not to miss the next episode about another interesting country
and how to make your business there.
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