HR 1 - 3rd Down Woes, Need More Pat

Tom and Chris talk about the 3rd down woes the Steelers have offensively, discuss what Rodgers said about the passing game yesterday, and talk about that Offensive Lines most recent performance

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Chris.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Yes, Tom, you watch every Steeler game, right kind of
my job? Oh yeah, me too, I do too. I
would do it even if it wasn't my job. I've
got an affinity for that team in that sport. But
you've come to notice, as I have, since we watch
all the Steeler games.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Not that good on third down lately. Huh yeah? Do
you know how bad they are on third down lately?
I know how bad they are on third down lately.
This is the Steelers blitz. I'm Tom Offerman, He's Chris Sadanski.
Do you think the people out there want to know
how bad they are on third down lately?

Speaker 3 (00:43):
They're probably acutely aware, but they'd also probably here they
want to number numerical proof.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yes, In the past three games, the Steelers are converting
fifth teen percent of their third downs. Chris, that's hard
to stomach. That season average is now at thirty six percent,
which is not good. That's towards the bottom of the league.

(01:09):
But imagine how much that has been sucked down because
of the last three games. And then last week against
the Chargers was just like the masterpiece as far as
that's concerned. So oh for nine heading into that fourth
quarter oh for nine until that garbage time drive where

(01:30):
they finally were able to pick up two first downs.
I mean, you want to talk about trying to identify
problems on the offense and the defensive side of the
ball with this team, well there's one in Neon flashing
lights right in your face, blinding you. Almost fifteen percent
is very, very hard to wrap your head around. As

(01:51):
far as a conversion success rate on third down, you're
not winning very many. It's honestly amazing. They won a
football game in that stretch against the Colts, but their
defense was setting them up with so many short fields
they barely needed to convert third downs. So it yeah,
and they're doing it on first and second downs in
that game too, So it's hard to stomach that. And

(02:13):
it is something that I mean, dare I say needs
to drastically improve, needs to improve by you know, twenty
percentage points and fast.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
There's a lot of ways you can go with it. Obviously,
just the offense in general is struggling, and that's reflective
on the third downs. That's the downs that I mean,
there's no nobody has second down percentage or first you
know that you can deep dive and say, oh, first
down success, right, things like that, but.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Test doesn't tell me they're converting many of those yes, yes,
and and that has a ripple effect of course, with
these are I imagine without again I haven't dug into
the numbers yet on this, but imagine that their third
and their average third down to gain over that time
is pretty high, and that contributes to the troubles on
third down.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
Then you have now we talked yesterday and a baked
up a conversation this week overall is about how arguably
their most consistent offensive player, one of their best outside
you put quarterback aside, best offensive player, is not being
used on third nown ding ding ding and so. And

(03:15):
I just like how the circular logic like, well, Jayden
Morden isn't playing so much because because we're not very
good on the third down, Uh, but we're not very
going to the third doub because Jayden Morden isn't playing the
third downs and he could be played more, and he
played more third downs, maybe they'd be better on third
downs and.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Therefore more could play more. I guess in general that's
what we have.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Look and you know, you go back to this because
Kenneth Gain well, has been a third down back for
a while. Okay, for good teams. I mean in super bowls. Yes,
he's filled the roles for Super Bowl winner, super Bowl
runner ups.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
Played that role to Saquon freaking Barkley last year.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
Yes, so I could see the idea behind it that
he was signed and brought in to do that. But
it's also Warren's best attribute early, that's what he's been.
His best attribute up till this year is what we saw.
And I can make a case he's been he's been
a better running back on hole first and second on

(04:08):
every down then we probably even we give him credit for.
And maybe I'll get in some of those probably doing
it to more tomorrow. I can some of the advanced
stuff on mistackles and avoid attack things like.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
That's great at it.

Speaker 3 (04:19):
Yes, so he is now playing less than half the snaps.
I just that doesn't compute in any way.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
I'm gonna put a word to that. It's inexcusable, it
really is. He cannot be playing less than Kenneth Gaineill.
He cannot be playing less than half the offensive snaps.
I don't care about a time of possession. We got washed.
We didn't run that many plays. We're in third down,
bet bet, but but duck play Jalen Warren. I mean,
he is your best offensive weapon. Don't have any hesitation

(04:47):
saying that at this point because the wide receiver that's
supposed to be your best offensive weapon hasn't shown up
for two weeks straight. So he's your best weapon right now.
Get him out on the field. It's inexcusable for him
to only play that amount of snaps. There's nothing eagle
about him playing that third down. Yeah, just because he
had the first and second down and ah, we're in
third and three. That doesn't mean you have to go

(05:09):
to Kenny g and Matt Williamson last night when we
were doing countdown to kickoff said something that I thought
was so true. Not every third down is the same.
You know, if it's a third and two, shoot, maybe
you want Caleb Johnson in there, Just bang one in there, right,
just a dive, put the head down and fall forward
offensive line. If you don't get push on this play,
I'm gonna be so mad, you know what I mean.

(05:31):
Then it's third and thirteen and it's like, okay, we
default into Kenneth gain Well. Why I want Jalen Warren
out there on third and thirteen. Jalen Warren out there
on third and thirteen. Let's the defense think three things. One,
this could be a run. A draw could definitely be
coming here. And even if you get to like a
third and five, third and six, then that threat is
even more so where it's like they could run this ball.

(05:52):
If Jalen Warren's back there, Kenneth Gane was in the game,
I just feel like they think there's like a ninety
nine percent chance that they aren't gonna run this thing,
and he's probably just gonna go run a flare rout
or something like that. So you have the thread of
the run, thread of the draw. If it's a long
third down, he's better in pass protection than Kenneth gainwell.
So if it's third and twelve and Rogers is like,
uh oh, they're bringing two or three extra guys. Jalen,

(06:13):
you were supposed to run this wheel not anymore, buddy,
You're staying in and blocking. He's amazing at it, one
of the best backs in football at that. And then
if he does go out on that flare route, if
he does go out on that wheel route, Warren's better
out of the backfield catching the ball than Kenneth Gainwell is.
There's just no way that you can really make the

(06:33):
case for Gainwell to be on the field as much
as he is kind of default onto the field as
that third down back as much. I'm not saying to
bench him. I'm not saying that you can't use Kenneth
Gainwell at all. I'm just saying it is really kind
of inexcusable when Warren does everything better than he does.

Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yeah, and I go back to Tim Benns brought this
or my colleague and yours, Tim Benz brought this to
my attention and brought to the attention to the masses
about how gain Well he would like to see. Okay,
we totally get it. Yes, limit the snaps or not,
just not overload, Jayden wore, Okay, yeah, no one's saying
he used to play one hundred percent of snaps or
ninety five.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
Percent of snaps or anything like that.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
But instead of making Gainwell the full time third down back,
why not give him a series here or there and
spell warn that way and they can both play first, second,
third down for their particular series and whatever whatever the
third series for however you want to do it. You can,
you can sit here and you can vite him thought
up the labor however you want to. But he played,

(07:34):
you know, in the rationale for that, maybe I would
have disagreed with that up until Dublin. Whenever Gainwell played
seventy eight percent of snaps and was in every down
back and had ninety nine yards of nine nine yard
rushing and you know, a couple of touchdowns and showed
on first and second times he could play. So I
would rather see that than Warren coming off the field

(07:56):
every time it gets to a weighty down, as they say, right,
I mean again, and I don't you can sit here
in Parson. It's it all and you do you count
Lineman whatever, all this stuff like your best offensive player.
I keep saying that. I think it's been your most
consistent offensive player when he's been healthy. And I do
think if you go further in this third down thing,
and I'm not saying I'm definitely not saying re signed

(08:19):
Deontay Johnson, but you missed, you missed, You missed that
type of receiver that you could trust on.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
Lamps and over. Yeah, it was such a crisp route
on the third and four.

Speaker 3 (08:28):
You knew he could. He could, You could put his
foot in the ground, you know, be there six yards
non field and get it to him. Whereas like that's
not even We can criticize DK or whatever his production
is now, but that's not the receiver he is, and
that's not his strength in general.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
He doesn't like rout anybody up. You know, he's good
against man, but I wouldn't call him a man beater,
you know what I mean, Like they haven't really had
a true man beater since Deontae Johnson. It's just stinks
that he's not a very good football player in other aspects.
Like if playing the receiver position just had to do with,
you know, cutting somebody up on a route, he might
be one of the best to ever. Oh yeah he was.
He was you know the catching of the ball and

(09:03):
then the yards after the catch and then then you know,
keeping your head on straight and well almost everything else
other than you know, those feet. But those feet were great,
and they don't have that right now. They don't really
have that guy. But that guy is Jalen Warren. You know,
it's just a different kind of way to beat up.
It's not you know, just hey, I'm gonna you know,
shake a guy, real quick slant, easy to settle into
his own and bang, here's an easy layup for you know,

(09:24):
a third and four conversion. No, Jalen Warren is the
guy that you hand the ball off to there, the
guy that you swing the ball out to get him
out in space the screen pass. I mean, you just
got to get him involved. And another thing that we
were talking about is, you know, there are guys on
this offense that have kind of clearly shown that they
should probably be the weapons, and that's Warren obviously, DK

(09:47):
has to be. And then I think Firemouth, I think
eighty eight should maybe be thought of in that sense.
And we'll get to this in our next segment. But
we know the quarterback thinks that too, based on his
comments yesterday. So you need to kind of have a
pow wow as like Arthur Smith, all the offensive coaches
kind of have your Camp David Accords, right, like, just
lock it down, get a bunch of pizzas in there,

(10:09):
and then figure out. You know, I'm not saying, like,
you know, make a new playbook. I'm not dumb and
ignorant and think that you could do that right now.
I'm saying let's look at the playbook we have and say, okay,
here's our number four's plays that go to DK metcalf
a lot. Here's our eighty eights, here's our thirties, and
like kind of just sort them out and be like,
let's orbit around these, and let's kind of add some

(10:30):
wrinkles to these too that we can install this late
into the season. But let's try to gravitate our offense
around these three pieces, because that's really how it works
in the NFL. Like, yeah, you want to have a
lot of compliments, and you want to have a lot
of balance and a receiver two and three and a
guy in the slot, but like you need three dogs,
Like you need three guys that you just, you know,

(10:53):
really orbit around. Can't think of another way to say it.
Wish I could be more creative, but I'm not. And
I just think that that needs to be a focus
of the offense moving forward is try to funnel it
through who I think are clearly your three most skilled players.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
Yeah, and specifically the third downs you wonder, I mean,
has got this the what the nickname or whatever? The
zone killver thing going on right now is what they're
talking about. It's all, I don't He's not gonna be
your Deontay Johnson type in terms of In terms of that,
I'm not gonna say Deontay Johns's name again, We've said
it way too much.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
Please stop for the rest of our lives of.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
The past segment here. But and just in terms of
that guy, that that is the lack of the cliche
security blanket. Not that Aaron Rodgers needed that, but but
need you know somebody that.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
I think every quarterback needs. Well, don't you agree with that?
I mean it's not like, look, I know what you
mean though, Like he's an MVP Hall of Famer and
you know, like the top of the features you think
of that like rookies or whatever. But think of Ben
and Heath Miller Man. I mean, he's one of the
greatest of all time. But Brady and Goronk like quarterbacks
even at the highest level, are lionesses. They need their blanket, man,
and their blanket is the tight end at times. So yeah,

(12:01):
I think Pat needs to fill that role. And like
I said, I think the quarterback wants Pat to fill
that role too.

Speaker 3 (12:05):
Yeah, especially in possession downs because whatever Darna like, I
don't know, especially Aaron man because he's so based on
trust and all this. I don't know if he if
it's third and third and four, if he's if Donald
Washington he's gonna go to Yet, you know what I'm saying,
like right or wrong and right or whatever. I don't know,
Like do you think do you think he like? I
feel like he. I think he probably wants to has

(12:29):
he I want to look, I'll just go back and
look at all Donoh's catches. Is him and he were
on third downs this season? Or I mean he went
in the end zone to him a few times, But
I don't know that the possession down.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
I like Darnell. I think Aaron does too, and I
think that he has done a good job as far
as it pass catcher is concerned. This year. That's just
a way better at it. And I still kind of,
you know, if it was the weightiest of third downs.
You know, I'm trusting Fireman's hands more than Washington still.

Speaker 3 (12:56):
And you know what, I even wonder if how much
and trust DK's hands hunt third I had to go back.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
I really have to think that that's part of the calculus.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
Again, anecdotally, I feel like most of the DK's catches
are on early downs and you take the shot on
first down, you get on field or second you know
those type of things. And and and the one that
I always remember, DK's third down catch was just a
little flare out to him. They'd nothing new with his hands.
He made a play. Now, there's something to be said
for that, I guess. But it's also it's almost like
a lottery ticket, right if it's third and you know six,
and you're throwing a ball behind the line of scrimmage. Yeah,

(13:28):
you hope your guy can make a play. Maybe you're
scheme it up good. Maybe you get a blocker out there,
you got Benz Kronick out there leading the way or something,
which is probably what they would do if they tried
something like that. But at the same time, it's it's
also like you can't assume he's going to because you
can't have to make at least some guy miss and
that that's probably asking a lot on a possession down,
a weighty down like that to make sure that's the play.
So yeah, but well, as we talk this through, you

(13:49):
could see a lot that this third down issues, these
third down issues aren't it's this isn't a fluke. This isn't.
There are reasons for it, and it's not simple to
you know, fix I guess at this point right now,
like the offense Gero, except for the fact you're playing
that says the night Bengals who can't cover the mi.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yes, the Miracle Tonics come into town. It fixes all
of our wounds and all of our ailments. Back to
the running back conversation that we were having on this
third down with Kenneth Gainwell automatically getting subbed into that role.
You know, there's just as there's nothing illegal about Jayalen
Warren staying out there on third down, there's nothing that

(14:28):
says Kenneth Gainwell can't start the series on first down,
can't take the carry on first down. We saw it
in Dublin. He had to be the lead back. They
didn't even give Caleb Johnson barely a sniff in that
Ireland game. It was Kenneth Gainwell like the feature back.
And guess what, Chris, he was staying on the field
on third down because he had to. So there's nothing

(14:52):
that says that that can't be a way that you
approach a series. It's just like, hey, you know what,
it's Kenneth Ganwell's time. Good out there, take the first
second and honestly the third down, or maybe we'll throw
Warren out there for the third down. We'll kind of
flip your roles. I just don't know why they seem
to be so stuck. I don't know if it's the

(15:12):
right word, but they are really trying to make the
way that they're going about this work. They're really trying
to put Warren kind in the nausey role and then
slide Kenneth Gainwell up into the Warren role instead of
just kind of scrapping the way you did it the
previous couple of years and developing a new approach with
your new running back room. And another thing that's really

(15:35):
hurting them is whatever's wrong with Caleb Johnson. The trust
that the coaches don't have in him, his inability to
instill trust in the coaches in practices, in the game
action that he does get the small tastes of that,
but that is what really is kind of messing up

(15:55):
the way they want to, I think deploy the room
because at this time in the season, especially Chris, I
think that in their mind's eye, it was gonna be
a lot of Caleb Johnson on those early downs, you
know that first and ten, just hammered it with him
for four and a half yards up the middle and
give us in a nice second and manageable and get
you know, this set of downs off to a good start.

(16:17):
And then you would go to Warren a lot in
spell situations for Johnson and on all those third downs,
and then Kenneth Gainwell would kind of been that odd
man out, probably been your kick returner, right special teams guy,
played maybe ten snaps a game, but that was how
they wanted the pecking order to go, and the rookie

(16:38):
has not been able to ascend to where they needed
him to be. So now they're kind of stuck with
Warren and Gainwell, who are really two of the same backs.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
Yeah, you know, if you go this running back class
was a pretty good draft class in general going into it,
if people thought it was good, and it's generally a
lot of the guys have gotten hurt to different degrees,
and gent He's probably been a disappointing production wise as
being a number six overall pick, but he's been Genty's
been productive at times and seemed like just a mess
there in general. Mary and Hampton when he's healthy, was
very good.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
He was the best back in the class when he
was healthy.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
Yeah, Quinton Jenkins has been very good at times this season.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
Looks like Henderson broke out this past week.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
Henderson now he's getting more more playing time too because
of the injury to Romande Stevens and RJ. Harvey, and
he might start this week now because Dobbins looks like
he's questionable.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
And Dobbins is questionable. Wow, that's crazy. Dobbins never gets hurt.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
Yeah, we would have thought that Covenant, that's very unlike it.
But RJ Harvey, you know, he might he might be
a third down back in long term, but he's he's
shown some things. And then even after Caleb Brons was
drafted in the third round, you know camp Scattabow. Of course,
when he was healthy, it has been good, and a
couple other guys have made little impacts. But that probably
had because yes, I think everybody thought it would have

(17:51):
been a complete bonus and have been a complete like
if he just blew people away during camp, then he
would have been getting being a featured back to start
the season, right. I don't think people expected that. I
thought maybe there was the hope that he's blue people obviously,
the hope he blows people away and he's just that
good that he couldn't keep him off the field, and
then that's good, and you kind of wonder. Then they
didn't give more in the extension till late August. Maybe
it was after they got to look at Caleb Johnson.

(18:12):
Maybe it was either oh, this guy is not the future,
or it was well, let's wait and see if Caleb
Johnson shows he's the you know, stamped in feature back
of the Future, and if he is, then we want
to give war an extension. I don't know if that
was part of the calculus. Why if you don't see
too too many I guess you do. But at least
the kind of those sneak attack ones, the extension that

(18:33):
they came kind of out of nowhere, the ones that
everybody talks about every year that came and Cam Hayward
has a contract or whatever it is, we talk about
it leading up to it. But they gave war in
that contract so late, and I think that was related
to Caleb Johnson's inability to kind of seize and show
it right away now. But I think everybody did think
or hoped or expected, or at least in a general

(18:53):
outline that by right about now a week nine, in
the midway point of the season, week ten, week eleven,
that Caleb Johnson would have more and more aggres actually
taken over is the every down back, and maybe that
is part of it. I mean, you take a guy
in the third round, you probably you're expecting him to
be a big contributor probably a longer term starters. There's
the hope for sure, no matter what position it is.
The fact he is and maybe has kind of thrown

(19:13):
this little bit off Kilder.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
But yeah, I do.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
Think you couple the third down troubles with Jalen Warrens
lack of playing third downs, Jayalen Warren's lack of playing
a lot, and Jalen Moarren's performance quite frankly generally speaking
throughout the season when he's been healthy, And yeah, it
just seems like an easy attempt at to fix, that's
for sure.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
Another thing that you have to do more of on
third downs to convert them, especially when they're third and
mid to long range, is throw the ball downfield to
your receivers, to your pass catchers. That has been a
struggle for the Steelers of late. The quarterback shared some
reasons or some thoughts on how they can get it
going again. We'll talk about what he said next. It's

(19:55):
the Steelers Splitz with Tom Opferman and Chris Damski on
Steelers Nation Radio, part of the Steelers Audio Network. I
think a good person to talk to and listen to
whenever an offense is struggling is a quarterback as accomplished

(20:18):
as Aaron Rodgers. And yesterday Chris when he had his
weekly scrum with you guys down there in the media,
you guys and gals down there in the media, he
really I think shed some light on two very important things.
First was DK metcalf and kind of what's going on
with him, and he said, you know, he's getting doubled

(20:41):
on third down every single time. Kind of put it
on the others in the past catching game, the others
in the receiving room to step up and give teams
a reason to pay a little attention to them so
that maybe they can snooze a little bit on the attention,
pay to decay or lax a little bit on that
so that you can then start going to him more.

(21:03):
One thing that Rogers didn't say, but we talked about
it yesterday. Is DK Metcalf when he is double teamed
for a big dude gets swallowed by those double teams
way too much. Like he's not exactly the guy that's
like fit DK down there. I'm just gonna throw it
up and you know, he's five inches taller than these
d backs. He's going to go up there and catch it.

(21:25):
So that's not really a part of his bag. And
when there is just no other threat, literally no other
threat right now, especially out of the receivers, I mean
they're just you know, zone or singling them up man
coverage against an Austin or Wilson, teams are barely sweating that.
And when that's the case, it's just way too easy

(21:47):
to play DK Metcalf, especially because he doesn't have that
you know, combat catch ability in his golf bag. So
it's getting to a point now where, uh, it's almost
becoming exaggerated how much attention teams are paying Metcalf. And
I don't want this to come off as a total

(22:08):
excuse for him, because I think you're a number one receiver.
You got to find your way to get yours anyway,
you know, I'm sure teams are really dramatically paying attention
to Chase. Well, you know, they have Higgins there too
that they got to worry about. But you know what
I'm saying, Like the number one receivers get attention to
just like we say, you know, the edge rushers get
chipped in double two across the league. You know, it's

(22:29):
not just a WAT thing. It's not just a DK
thing to get a lot of attention paid to him,
but it is I recognize, maybe more dramatic because of
the lack of a threat elsewhere in that room. Yeah,
I think it's come. I mean, everybody we've talked about it.

Speaker 3 (22:43):
It seems like for people have talked about it in
some form or another for a year and a half
now since the Steelers. I got to go to him
again mention his name again, don't I did that? They
traded Deontay Johnson, who was going.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
To be what's up with that? What's wrong with it?
That time?

Speaker 3 (22:59):
I didn't want to say. And they made a trade
in March of twenty twenty four involving a wide receiver
that was starting for them. So it's been and I
think now when you see DK have two games in
a row with so little production. It certainly illuminates that
problem and that issue. And I mean, listen, it's just

(23:19):
common sense, right. I remember we made a big deal.
We'd asked going way back to mention other persona non
grad a wide receivers when Antonio Brown and Jujus were here,
and it was just like and then you know when
Brown got traded and Juju's like, well, I mean, it's
just kind of obvious, right, there's no other there's not
an all pro guy on the other side. Now I

(23:41):
don't anymore. It's going to be probably more attention to me.
Whenever I was playing with the guy who at that
time was considered a Hall of Famer or whatever, and
now he's not here, it's going to be different. Sure enough,
you saw. I mean, Juju's most productive seasons only it's coincidence,
were when he had number eighty four on the other side.
It's just obvious, right, And at this point, I don't,

(24:01):
you know, I just hate that. I keep parking about that,
like the Calvin Austin drop that essentially effectively end of
the game Sunday night, or the deflected off his hands
that ended up being interception. I mean that was there
was still hope at that point maybe he makes a play.
It looks like he could have ran and makes it
play and you know, probably talk myself into it and say
that the result could be different, but that certainly ended
the game at that point for all functional purposes. And

(24:22):
it's just And collins Worthy even said that during the broadcast.
He said, well, you know the number two wide receiver,
see that, we saw it right there.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Why there's no you know.

Speaker 3 (24:31):
And it's just it was just an illustration of that
because you like to see Calvin make plays when he
gets his chance at lease. He might not ever be
a seventy catch guy or whatever in terms of the
high end production, but to have you know, issues like
that at some point. Yeah, And I mean, DK, he's
obviously getting paid like a number one receiver. They gave
up a high draft compensation to be a number one

(24:53):
ride receiver. You'd still like to see a production regardless
of that. But there is I don't think it's any secret.
I mean, the Steeler brought an MVS. They were pretty.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
You think he gets a hat this weekend. It feels
like there's some like momentum in that direction.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
Yeah, especially after the way that where the offense is
right now. Yeah, probably, if I had to guess, I'd
say I'm not completely sold on it yet for sure,
but yeah, probably it's a man.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
I'm really interested to see what that hat like that
trickle effect is on trickle down effect on who doesn't
get a hat? That that's what?

Speaker 3 (25:25):
Yeah, I kind of wonder, yeah that and even kind
of the route or the personnel groupings, like is he
out there just as uh under where does he take
the snaps the way that what I mean Scotty Muller
has been playing, but you know that the number just
plays five or six snaps? Is it?

Speaker 1 (25:40):
Keishawn Williams that probably doesn't get it because of the
fumble on the punt, like that's kind of an easy one.
And I know that guy you can't play this week.
I mean that might be it.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
It's that would seem punitive like, but at the same
time he did and he he almost dropped another one
during that game too.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
And then you can finally get your wish of Calvin
Austen being back there, Chris that you've been begging for
in wonder why is this not happening anymore? Can someone?
Can someone please tell me? Why is Calvin Austin not
doing this.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
This is the type of stuff that I get interested
in and and I last show on too, but.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Well you might finally see him if this is how
it actually plays out. Yeah, I mean someone's got to
return the punts of Williams, isn't That isn't getting a helmet?

Speaker 3 (26:15):
Yeah, and it would, I mean it would make sense.
And it would because in theoretically to a point, I guess,
and maybe this is a stretch, MVS would would safe
in a couple of steps away from Calvin Austin. So
he's not his I don't know, taxed or whatever. They
couldn't handle the punt return duties. I mean, he's pretty
good a punt returner, and I don't think he's remember
they were still having Tom was still having Antonio Brown
return punt even was making all protein.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
Especially when you need a splash. Yeah. So in Austin's
housed him before.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
Yeah, yeah, so he definitely I think at this point
he's certainly the more obviously he's the most more proven commodity,
but he has a track records a good punt returner,
so that that might make some sense. There. You sit
down Keyshawan for the game because you can find out
a kickoff return and worry about that.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
Knewell gainwell do.

Speaker 3 (26:57):
Yeah, so that's not it. So that would I would
create the roster spot for the game the game there
roster spot you could put you and where the offense
has been the last two weeks with the opponent you have.
I'm the big play, the splash play capable play in
the Bengals secondary. And that's that's if you want to
say he is a one trick pony and probably his age,
he is a one trick pony. Now he's not going
to be in every down receiver. Maybe this, maybe this,

(27:19):
you're talking me into it as usual, Tom, you always
talked me into.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
I could I could have been a really bad influence
on you if like we went to high school together,
like I could have gotten you to do a bad way.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
You imagine what could have happened to me.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
Can I advance something here that might make me sound
a little dumb, and you can feel free to tell
me that I'm stupid for saying this, But I don't
think I would never call you stupid, No, you would.
I don't think I am, though, So the notion of okay,
we don't have a number two receiver to kind of
take attention away from DK. We have tight ends that
can do that, okay, but how much attention does that

(27:52):
really take away from DK? Out of a secondary standpoint,
I get that safety's help out against tight ends, but
like a lot of teams I think would just you know,
try to have their The Steelers aren't the only team
that has gone out there and gotten Peyton Wilson's and
been like, we need to get you know, kind of
you know, not the traditional Brian Erlacker meat head linebackers.
You need to get some speed guys to be able

(28:14):
to cover people who also have some size and can hit.
You know, It's not just that, you know, the Steelers
are ahead of that curve, it's everybody's like this is
a new position kind of. It's like a lot of
teams have those guys that they just throw on the
tight ends and they're just like, that's who we're going
to have as air tight endbuster. Now, maybe you can
draw from safety help over the top on a DK.

(28:37):
Because the safety has to come and help and cover
a tight end in the slot or something like that,
your slot corner has to do some of that work too.
But I'm just saying when you have a traditional outside
the numbers, number two wide receiver, that is that threat
that they have to be aware of. You know, it's
pulling from the cornerback room, it's pulling more so from
the safeties, and it's a better way to draw attention.

(29:01):
I'm not saying that the Titans don't draw any attention away.
I'm just saying it's for sure not as effective as
having that true compliment on the outside to your number
one receiver.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
And let's just I mean, just be with all due
respect to I mean, I don't think I'm stupid. First
of all, I don't know. I don't think it's too
but I think it's more. I would never call you stupid,
like I said I And I think it's more. Though,
if if the Steelers had Prime Travis Kelcey or you know,
prime whoever, you know, fair.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
Point, they could be getting more from the tight ends
out of a threat standpoint, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
Yeah, if they're I mean, even if John Who's I mean,
maybe what they envisioned or hoped for John who Smith
could be a kind of a the facto a wide
receiver type of thing. And he's not the perfect example
but if they had somebody like that, I don't think
and again I think it's a good tight end. We know, well,
you know it's a good tight end. Core is an
aggregate and they do things that are but you know,

(29:54):
defensive coordinators aren't sitting up at night as good as
Pratti faring me is against his own saying we had,
you know what, you got to really devow these resources
to make sure you know, they aren't that type of
dynamic receiving threats. Any of those four individuals that are
in the tight end room right now that they that
they would siphon away attention or coverage from DK metcalf,
and in my opinion at that point, so I don't

(30:15):
know if that's you know, but you're you're right, I
do think that a wide receiver unless it is if
you had a complete, a total threat that was a
either either the production type threat like I mean like
you know the Bowers or I mean Tyler Warning might
be a decent example if the seers had at that
type of tight end that could almost protect in a
way DK Metcalf or even a guy who's like a

(30:37):
Gadson who is essentially a glorified wide receiver anyway, and
to call him a tight end if you want to,
just that type, that skill set and what people wanted
Kyle Pitts to be initially when he got drafted essentially
is to be that type of, you know, down the
field type tight end. I think maybe that would would
be more of a deterrent for teams to devote so
much attention to DK Metcalf. But yeah, that's that's that's

(30:57):
not necessary what the Steelers have in their room right now.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Well, speaking of tight ends and getting more out of
that room, that's the other thing that Aaron Rodgers said
yesterday that I found very interesting. He named one in specific,
Pat Friarmuth. We need to get him more involved, and
obviously you guys led him to that. I think because
of Friarmuth's successes against the Bengals, right and we're trying
to figure those out. We're trying to be like, why

(31:20):
is Friarmuth so damn good against the Cincinnati Bengals. Rodgers,
can you please tell us what you saw out there
in the first time you played the Bengals with Friarmuth
where he had another monster game against them, Like what
does he do well? And he gave you it, But
the main thing that he said was, you know, we
just need to get him more involved in this offense.
We need more of Pat And I agree with him.
You know, I think it's always been such a chicken

(31:43):
or egg conundrum for me when it comes to Friarmuth
and is it the usage of him or is it
his talent? You know what is the disconnect here? Because
he's just not really been able to blossom into the
player that you saw out of Penn State and you
thought he was gonna be when you drafted him in
the second round a few years So, you know what
has it been? Has it just been that they're not

(32:04):
maximizing him? Well maybe the quarterback Aaron Rodgers thinks that's
the case, that they're just not maximizing him. They're not
utilizing him enough. I mean, I love Darnell Washington. I
think he is a very unique asset and he makes
the Steelers tricky to play against. Opposing Defensive coordinators have
to really think a little bit more when it comes
to him and dealing with him, have to do some

(32:27):
things and introduce some things that they don't always have
week to week because of that presence on the field.
John new Smith. He had a great year in Miami.
Last year he's been a disappointment, and he's older than Pat.
Like Pat still, to me is the one that has
the potential there to really be a good game breaking
type of tight end when it comes to the passing game,

(32:49):
and Rogers wants more of them, So try to get
him more involved. As I said in that first segment, Chris,
find your eighty eight plays, find the plays and your
playbooks that are kind of keyed to him him schemed
up around him, adds some wrinkles to it and start
to orbit around that more.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
Yeah, it's crazy because Friar Youth, it did kind of
seem like the first season he had seven touchdown receptions.
The second season is ninety eight targets right, and has
a career high in seven one hundred and thirty two yards.
Just look looking at his numbers and you kind of
remember where you felt after each of those seas because
the first season he had the touchdowns and he was
only a rookie and kind of the chatter was okay,

(33:27):
yards of catch was eight point three, just not just
kind of middling yards per catch, wasn't really making big
plays making touchdowns though, was kind of a security, but
that was and that was a situation there where your
a thirty nine year old quarterback and he was a
rookie tight end and he was kind of that that
type of player in that offense at that point, and
the second year you kind of thought, oh, you can
kind of go to the next level. Now that was
the whole year with you Mitch Trubisky and Kenny Pickett

(33:50):
and that type of thing for the offense. For that way.
Maybe here he had two touchdown catches and he went down.
You know, he had his career high and reception or sorry,
receive yards. Then he got hurt some and it's just
kind of been kind of a plateau.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
At that point.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
You kind of you feel like there's more there, and
you see it in training camp some and you see
it and the way that they talk. I mean, like
I said, the zone beater thing that he's he's open
and we've seen it and flashes this year or some
and I think Darnell, I don't know what to make
of Darnall. Watch it this boy as a receiver for
the last two or three weeks ago, We're like, Okay,

(34:24):
he's fine, he's emerged, he's going to become a star
is probably a strong word, but he's going to be
a tight end one type production receiving receiving game. And
you see him out there every snap and blocking and
everything's there, and you really and now there's been what
two games in a row where he's has combined three
catches or.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
Whatever it is, because you know what, other teams started
to notice too that he's really hurting people in the
passing game. So they're like, hey, this guy's not just
out there to run block anymore. We got to start
thinking of him as a pass catcher. You know. You know,
there's always the there's always the adjustment, right, Chris, there's
always this guy can't really hit the curveball that well.
So I'm going to start throwing him more curveballs and
he better learn fast or else this is going to

(35:00):
start passing him by.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
And then you know, and then so we've we've seen
an uptick. Then remember fire myth went with three game
stretch with only two catches earlier in this season. They're like,
what happened to prad Friremouth. He's out And that was
if you if you laid him side by side, I'm
sure that the start out Washington production and Pat Firemth
production are sort of they've been correlating to each other
in a negative correlation.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
You like that, say, don't you think the firemouth thing
with the Bengals too. It's kind of like he had
good games against them early in his career, right, like,
and there was just kind of a coincidence happening there
where it was like, okay, like it's weird that he's
had his quote unquote breakout games as a young player
against the same team, like kind of like, oh, that's neat, huh.

(35:41):
And then the Bengals defense has just progressively gotten so
bad to the point where now they're just utter trash
that he just now goes out there and has good
performances against a garbage defense, and it kind of feeds
into the coincidence that was happening at the beginning of
his career and now it's like, wow, this is a
thing now. But do you get what I'm saying there,

(36:01):
Like that kind of is what happened there. It's like, oh, yeah,
he had like two or three good games early and
it's like, hm, that's odd that he plays well against
the Bengals and now he's stacking like four or five, six,
seven games on top of it, because the defense is
just garbage right now. Earlier on though it wasn't like
that was game Bengals defense went to a Super Bowl
that Pat was still cooking right back then, so like
there were some games against formidable defenses. And now it's

(36:23):
just like I can just easily add on to my
legend here because this is like a JV. High school
defense now and.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
It's crazy now. I bet you if I looked up
the production against proposing running backs the production against opposing
wide receivers, there would also be very big numbers. But
the Bengals, and it also the numbers are skewed because
of what the Steelers did them four weeks ago, right
in other words, the Steewarts. The Bengals will allowed twelve
touchdowns the tight ends this season. No other team's allowed
more than seven. Now the Steelers have four of those

(36:51):
twelve and the one game. So but if you take
that away, it's subtracted game Bengals Ledger. The Bengals still
would lead the league in tight end touchdowns allow their
second and h tighten yards allowed and their second they're
fourth and uh tightening receptions allowed some Yeah, yeah, so
there is obviously something there. But again, I could probably
pull up the wide receiver stats and everything against the

(37:13):
Bengals gonna be really high, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, But
it could fix everybody, And we know at this point
it's it's there's an element of confidence that Prouder fire
and Mith fields and he sees those stripes and the
orange and all that stuff that although it wasn't orange
last game, they were all wearing white, so maybe not you.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
Said you said there that this defense could fix everybody.
You know what. Another term for that is the miracle tonic. Chris,
come on, keep up, baby, it's the miracle tonic. I
wanted you to say, good kick saving a butte there
from you, Chris Adamski. All right, when we come back,
I want to talk about a spot on the Steelers
that I'm a little worried that regression is starting to

(37:49):
kick in. We'll talk about that next on the Steelers
Blitz on Steeers Nation Radio, part of the Steeers Audio Network.
Before we get to the spot on the Steelers team
that I think, oh, is this progressing a little bit?

(38:10):
And I'll give you a little hint. It's on the
offensive side of the ball. We got to talk about
what you just looked up in the break, Chris. It's
Tom Opfoman and Chris Damski on the Steelers Blitz, a
part of the Steelers Audio Network on Steelers Nation Radio.
We were looking about we were talking about the last segment.
You know, Bengals are terrible against tight ends, and maybe

(38:30):
that's feeding into what Pat Freyermuth does against them, because
every tight end plays well against them. But then you
were saying, yeah, but I'm sure running backs play well
against this terrible defense, and receivers play well against this
terrible defense. So you went to your little laptop and
doop dupe typed away and you were like, who is
the worst defense against wide receivers in the NFL? And
you found it's.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
Not the Bengals, and it is a team plague on
Sunday in the stadium where the Bengals are no and
that team would happen to be the one that wears
black and gold.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yeah, and you know how you said in the last segment,
you know, the Steelers kind of fed into those numbers
tight end wise. They scored four touchdowns with the tight
ends against the Bengals the last time they met. Well,
I think Jamar Chase T. Higgins fed into that when
it comes to how the Steelers are playing against opposing
wide receivers in that last meeting too, what they combined
for almost two hundred and fifty sixty yards or something
like that.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah, yeah, and they have what twenty twenty three catches
whatever between the.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
Two of them, twenty three targets alone for Chase.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
For Chase, So yeah, one hundred and forty three receptions
by opposing wide receivers against the Steelers. The four teams
after them have played ten games, the Seers have played nine.
In the league rankings in terms of most receptions the
teams that's allowed to the most in nine games one
hundred and the Seriers have allowed eighteen more catches over
nine games, so two extra catches per game per wide receiver,

(39:46):
second in yard is allowed to wide receivers in the league,
and eight touchdowns a lot so help. Yeah, But again
that that one game essentially skewed both these teams numbers,
so that one game is so bad the Steelers, the
guns wide receiver agains sight ends the probably the rest
of the time, they're actually pretty.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
Good can I offer you a little silver lining outside
of Lad McConkie. It's four catches in one hundred and
three eight whatever yards it was, and a lot of
it was on that big play. Didn't notice much of
the other receivers for the Chargers, did you. I mean,
I felt like that secondary did okay other than ecles
on Lad McConkie. But that's a part of it. So

(40:22):
you can't just you know, delete that from what happened.
But I think Joey Porter Junior had another strong game.
I didn't see Quinton Johnson really going off. They had
to force feed, keep and all in a pass at
the end of the game just so they could get
him his little pop, get him his little record. So
I thought that the secondary, and I know that the
Colts racked up some yardage against the Steelers, but now

(40:44):
for two straight weeks with Douggery and Ramsey back there,
I thought, you know, as a whole it was okay
in coverage against receivers. Well, now the test becomes you
know hercule in this week.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
Yeah, and that's if if you look at Quentin Johnson,
that was actually the one that stuck to me. He
had ten targets forty two receiving yards.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
So that tells you that he's Joey whoever was on Sticky.

Speaker 3 (41:04):
In coverage and it was Joey a really good job,
and he's you know, probably there. It depends how you've
defined it dynamic, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
He's the guy that makes sense for like a Joey
to go follow exactly.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
Exactly, so he would do that. So I'm sure that
he was a big part of that. So yeah, overall,
you're right, and the whole the new safety duo I
mean against and it's entirely it's gonna be even more
so assuming Slay doesn't play. It's it's almost as if
you can't even other than Joey, you know, an eccles,
I get it, But from three weeks ago, it's almost
a totally different secondary at this point. So there was

(41:34):
reason to believe that things can be different this time
against the Bengals. And it better be different to some degree.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
It's put it that way, Oh, it better be different
to some degree. More specifically, it better be different with
how you handle Chase Brown, no question about that. The
underachieving thing that I was talking about, No, sorry, you
got ahead of myself. The regressing thing that I was
talking about notes. I have notes in front of my face,
I have words written down, buzzwords that trigger segments. And

(42:00):
I'm sorry, folks, I jumped ahead of myself.

Speaker 3 (42:02):
Far that you're facing me and not looking at your nose.
Maybe that that's part of the problem.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
Regression is probably a strong word. They're not, you know,
in that state right now. And by them, I'm talking
about the offensive line. Not a great performance against the Chargers,
and the Chargers only blitzed once. And this is an
offensive line that we thought has been trending in the
right direction, has gone up against Garrett and played really well,

(42:25):
has gone up against Gary Rashawn Gary, and Micah Parsons
for the Green Bay Packers, and even though they got
three sacks between them, thought it was a very quiet
three sacks. Thought they did a solid job against them,
you know, against the Colts, I thought did an okay job.
The Colts were sending a lot of different looks at them.
Some blitzer is they did an adequate job. Then enter
this Chargers team and it really was a struggle as

(42:48):
far as pass protection was concerned for the Steelers offensive line.
And regression is a strong word because you need more
of a sample size to be like, oh, they're starting
to regress. But I just worry about that potential happening.
Since you saw a bad game against the Chargers, and
since you saw them kind of for the first time
since Week one against the Jets, stop that ascension as

(43:09):
a unit to being like a very formidable starting five.
And I wonder, Chris, if there's a coincidence that you
see kind of their worst performance since that Jets game
as an offensive line and the fact that they didn't
have a Cmalu and then their full complement of jumbo
package because of the Cmalu injury. That's interesting.

Speaker 3 (43:30):
I was gonna go with the tap, but you just
presented two points that that that makes sense, that that
the correlation there, there's there's obviously there could be something there.
I was gonna say, I'm willing to say that they
had been good enough forever, long enough stretch over up,
but a month or at four games, four or five
games that I was willing to give him a pass
and say it's on one off, and you know, I'm

(43:51):
not really ready to go back and say I was
feeling that level of confidence in this group. And again
because except for say them, although they're all young enough
that they all should be ascending, and they're reasonably it's
not as if they're all, you know, in their late
twenties or something, and if it's, I mean, they are
who they are type thing. At this point, they there
was reasonab believe they all could get better and get
better as a unit. So I was willing to feel

(44:12):
good about it too, and I was to say, well,
you know what, Okay, let's just chalk it up to
one one game here. But you have to Now you
could say to that that assuming Sam All who comes
back this week for the rest of twenty twenty five,
for instance, then even if that was the issue as
a matter of fact, if that was the issue, that's
even good news because that would mean that that would
be theoretically fixed and alleviated going forward that this week,

(44:34):
if he does come back, then you have your hear
starting five.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
And I think it's a big deal if he comes better.
So there you go.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
So if that's the case, then you can feel even
better about the fact that you believe the Steelers off
is loaning to be good. Now twenty twenty six, that
might be an issue, but that's we'll worry about twenty
twenty six another time.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
Right now, it's get there. That's like a year away.
It's a year away something like that. It's really only
come away.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
I know.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
One thing I will say too, when it comes to
see Himali being out and kind of that flux of
the jumbo package, I wonder what that does to Broderick Jones.
You know, someone who is really kind of in a
rookie season in a way when it comes to playing
left tackle, and you've kind of started to feel him
settle in and there's been stability around him. Right Like
it's always Spencer Anderson lining up to my left or
Dornell if it's not the true jumbo package, and it's

(45:17):
always seem all though to my right. And now all
of a sudden, I've got, you know, the andrews Pete
guy coming in here and subbing in, and then Spencer's
kicking out, and then Spencer's on my right, and then
he's on my left, and it's just like, I don't know,
it shouldn't be something that derails an NFL caliber left tackle,
but it's something that's in my head, you know what
I mean. I'm wondering if that did lead to him
having Broderick Jones his worst game since that Jets game.

Speaker 3 (45:38):
Yeah, if you want to again, you could say that,
and again, longer term, that's probably If that's the case,
that's probably not good for your supposed franchise left tackle
that all these things could it could affect his play
that much, but for the in the short term those
things could be fixed and alleviated and back to normal
in the nice nests. I love that word nest and
Williams and thank you Williams, and I go to a

(45:59):
way too much, but like the nest around to help
your franchise left tackle in terms of the people around him,
the guy who has left, the guy that was right
to stability all that it is back and he can
perform in his at his best. Yeah, you're you're again.
You're making sense there, And I don't know the jumbo
thing I'd like to see. I felt like they didn't
use three tight ends as much against the Chargers. I

(46:20):
don't know if that if there is a game plan
behind that, you would think because of the offensive line issues,
you would do it more. But I felt like they
did it less. And I didn't have the data for that,
but I felt like they didn't maybe go back to
that a little bit more too.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
Going forward. I've got a conspiracy theory that I want
to advance. It's not Steelers related, it's more NFL related,
So we'll do that next. And I want to talk
about kind of the state of the AFC conference too,
so we'll do that next. Tom Opperman and Chris Damski
on the Steelers Blitz on Steelers Nation Radio, part of
the Steelers Audio Network.