While we've returned from a holiday pause, we're working behind the scenes to create a refreshed show, with new guests and exciting topics. In the meantime, enjoy one of our popular past episodes. Perhaps this is the year to take the plunge and create that app!
You’re not a developer, but you have an innovative idea for a software or maybe a mobile app, now what? How can a non-techie turn a great idea into a viable product without blowing your budget? That’s exactly what Lori Vajda and Nola Boea wanted to know so they sat down with Igor Belagorudsky, Founder and President of Fast CTO. Igor and his team started the company to help people and companies with great software ideas get them built the right way, the first time around.
In this "Greatest Hits" episode, Igor shares his experience, insights and tips so listeners can learn what you need to know about hiring developers, why you don’t want an SOW (statement of work), and how to build a successful tech company.
Thanks for Listening!
If you enjoyed this show, make sure to subscribe to the podcast so you’ll never miss an episode. Find out more about us at Sticky Brand Lab
Please connect with us on Facebook!
Business success strategies are in the works. Come have a listen!
In This Episode You’ll Learn
- Why a poorly executed mobile app or software idea can quickly become a huge bank debt and how you can avoid it.
- The make-or-break steps for finding and hiring the right developer partner to successfully build your app.
- The risky mistake first time startup founders make when coming up with an idea for an app.
- The 3 reasons you need to treat your app like a business.
Key points Lori and Nola are sharing in this episode:
(5:16.46) While the process of building an app seems pretty straightforward, this one costly mistake often leads non-tech founders to hire the wrong team of developers and programmers.
(7:48.17) The three primary reasons non-tech entrepreneurs should be wary about signing an SOW and why it usually doesn’t help with getting your idea built.
(11:10.90) Why you don’t want to hire a dev shop that offers project management for free.
(14:20:20) Before hiring anyone, this is the first thing you should do when considering if your app is worth developing.
(17:12:28) The three main pros and cons of hiring a freelance software developer and hiring a company such as a dev shop.
(19:27:22) The surprising answer to determine whether or not you can tell if a developer is trying to scam you.
Resources
You can subscribe to Lori and Nola's show, (we love you and want to make it easy) on Apple Podcasts, Audible, Google Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Email address: igor@fastcto.com
Connect with angel Investor and CEO, Igor Belagorudsky - Social Links:
Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/igorbelagorudsky/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lookattheigor/?hl=en
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/fastcto
To Get Igor’s two recipes and quote: Sticky Brand Lab Resource Page
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nola (00:00):
You have an idea for an app or possibly a business
software solution.
Sounds exciting, right?
Not to mention the friends andfamily who agree this is a great
idea.
There's only one tiny problemYou're not a developer.
So what do you do?
How do you develop your amazingidea into an app or software?
Well, stay tuned, because we'readdressing all this and more
(00:22):
with a Chief Technology Officerand Subject Matter Expert in
today's episode.
Lori (00:29):
You're listening to the Sticky Brand Lab Podcast, where
time-strapped professionals likeyou learn how to create a
business you love in as littleas three hours a week.
Is it possible to create an app, start a SaaS company or launch
a startup without a techbackground?
And if it is possible, whatdoes it take for a non-techie,
(00:51):
entrepreneur-minded individualto turn her great idea into a
viable product or business?
We wondered.
So we set out to find out andone thing we learned along the
way it starts with finding thebest people to help you see your
vision through.
Hello and welcome aspiringentrepreneurs.
Lori Annola here with adecidedly non-tech, savvy
(01:14):
approach to getting your app orsoftware solution idea on the
path to development.
But before we get this,everything you need to know
about turning your idea into anapp or software solution.
But we're too embarrassed toask.
Show started.
Be sure to subscribe to ourpodcast on Apple Podcast, google
Podcasts, audible, spotify orwherever you listen to podcasts.
(01:36):
That way, you'll never miss outon any of our weekly helpful,
informative and alwaysopinionated podcasts.
Now let's get this.
Say yes to built by anon-techie founder.
Show started.
Nola (01:52):
You are likely familiar with the following tech
companies Airbnb, Tinder,Pandora and Apple but what you
might not be familiar with isthat these companies were built
by non-tech founders.
That's right.
Airbnb founders had industrialdesigning backgrounds, Pinterest
founders were educators, andMichael Dell was doing trade and
stocks before he started Dell.
(02:13):
For non-techie people,ourselves included, technology
lingo is a foreign language, andwhen you don't speak the
language, it's understandable tofeel embarrassed, intimidated
and anxious the moment someonetalks to you using terms you
know nothing about.
So we set out to find atechnology expert who
specializes in working withnovices.
Just like most of us, we wantedsomeone who could help us
(02:36):
understand exactly what ouraudience needs to know in order
to turn their idea into a viableproduct.
Angel, Investor, Mentor,Advisor and Consultant.
Igor Belogrutsky is founder andCEO of Fast CTO, a company
dedicated to helping people andcompanies with great ideas get
them built the right way thefirst time around.
(02:58):
Or, said another way, you aretechnology evangelist, software
architect and thingy explainer.
Welcome, Igor.
Lori (03:10):
Hello, hi.
So before we get into thespecifics of how non-tech new
entrepreneurs can go aboutcreating an app or a software
solution, can you tell us whatis the most entrepreneurial
thing about you?
Igor (03:26):
Well, so the most entrepreneurial thing depending
on how you defineentrepreneurial or thing, I
suppose.
So a good entrepreneur, I think, has to be able to stand up
after failing.
In that way, I failed quite abunch, and so I think the
entrepreneurial thing is thatyou stand up and you try again.
Nola (03:48):
I like that.
Well, they say, there is nosuch thing as failure, only
lessons learned.
Igor (03:54):
Or failing forward.
Nola (03:56):
Yeah, fast.
Cto is a pretty unique company.
For one thing, your companydoes very little in the way of
actually building websites andapps.
In fact, you're more abouthelping people with ideas find
the right people to bring thoseideas to fruition.
Tell us about what your companydoes and what led you to start
it.
That's a great question.
Igor (04:17):
I've had a lot of startup and I don't think I've had a
single startup that was the sameindustry as a startup before or
earlier in my career.
Basically, you look for a funproject and you don't really
think about building on theprevious thing and going forward
.
So I had failure after failureafter failure, a couple of minor
successes, and then I ended upback in Boston after being in
(04:40):
San Francisco for a bit and Ifound this company that was a
group of a staffing company,right.
So they basically did the wholething that everybody does they
disrupt the industry, all thatkind of stuff in the staffing
space.
I started there as a firstemployee with two co-founders.
It took nine years or so.
(05:00):
We finally built it up, 120people or so sold it, several
rounds of institutionalinvestment, the whole journey
and I exited it.
I learned a lot, but the numberone thing I learned is that I
don't like staffing.
I can't.
You know, the way I definestaffing is you pay someone one
(05:23):
thing, you build them out at 3x.
That that's how you make yourmoney.
That's that Most of the worldworks that way.
But what it really means forstartups and entrepreneurs is
that anytime they go to findpeople to build something for
them.
Instead of working with thepeople that they should be
(05:43):
working with, they work withpeople they can afford, which
are people at dev shops that arereally getting paid three times
less than what you're payingfor them, and so what ends up
happening is a lot of times andit's kind of the hypothesis that
FASITIL is built on is that ifyou go and you Google, you know
why do startups fail and you getback a million different
(06:04):
results.
When you put in a pie chart, 80%of that pie chart you could
summarize as I spent too muchmoney to build the wrong thing
and now I'm out of money andthere's like a lot of different
ways you could walk into thatstatement, but at the end of it,
you had some amount of moneyyou tossed over the fence to
some dev shop and, you know, two, three months later, you got
(06:26):
nothing to show for.
So basically, fasitil, the ideabehind it, is, instead of doing
that, bring along for the ridesomebody that built a company
very similar to yours already.
They know exactly what themilestone should be and they can
direct a team of developers onexactly what they need to do and
(06:48):
how, and so if we take a CTOlike that and we make them
affordable.
That's where the magic.
Lori (06:53):
I love that, that kind of piggybacks on a question that I
want to tie in here, which isfast.
Cto is more than justconnecting the customer to the
developer.
Could you kind of help explainin giving it a better
understanding, because it's notjust about finding a developer.
I mean, if you're talking 70Kor you've got something, that's
(07:16):
even less.
It's not just developers thatyou are connecting people to.
Are there?
Nola (07:22):
language barriers and trying to explain a concept that
doesn't exist.
Igor (07:27):
Yeah.
So let me answer Nolia'squestion in exactly the way that
you need your question answeredas well.
The language barrier is notyour speaking English and their
speaking Korean.
The language barrier is thatyou're speaking non-tech and
they need to hear tech.
The analogy I often use isbuilding a house Right, so you
(07:48):
can find the best contractor outthere like really, really
experienced, well-pricedeverything contractor and you
could say, okay, I have thisroom, I need a window in this
room.
Without any other guidance,they're going to use their best
judgment to put a window Right.
They're going to pick a wall,they're going to pick a size,
(08:09):
they're going to pick everythingand at the end you're going to
get a window and it's probablygoing to be well-installed right
, because it's a good contractor.
That's SOW, because on your SOWyou're going to say I need a
window, I need login, and you'releaving it to a developer to
decide what that means.
Right Now.
Imagine if you gave a little bitmore context.
I need a window because I'mtrying to grow some plants.
(08:32):
Now you've got a contractorthat says, okay, well, north is
this way, west is this way, eastis that way.
You've got a hill over there.
Best light is going to be if Iput a window on this wall and
then you put a window on theright wall, still their choice,
still their size, right,whatever they pick, but at least
it's on the right wall.
Now let's say you say, well,I'm growing this specific type
(08:53):
of plant.
They're like well, for thatkind of plant we need this kind
of glass, because that kind ofglass filters UV rays.
And then you say, oh, andactually I've got kids and say,
okay, well, now the window hasto be like this, and actually I
also want to put TV in here.
Well, now the window has tohave shades.
And then just open and close,right.
So the more information you givesomeone who's doing it, the
(09:15):
better they're going to do attheir job.
And the problem is that and itdoesn't it's not limited to
non-tech founders.
Most tech founders can't dothis either.
You don't know what thedeveloper needs to hear to do
the right thing.
It's just unknowable because itchanges every time.
Even I get it wrong.
Sometimes you have to explainthings in such a specific way
(09:37):
for each specific thing thatyou're trying to solve.
That's a language barrier andthat's where a CTO comes in like
a real CTO that's done itbefore that can marry the
business side and the tech side,and that's what we do.
Lori (09:51):
Cool, it almost sounds like you're a matchmaker, except
that you don't leave.
Igor (09:56):
Yeah, yeah, okay, stay and hold hands.
So, lori, to answer yourquestions, that CTO is decidedly
not a dev shop.
We don't sell developers, wedon't sell development.
But our mission in general iswe don't profit off of startups
Like Google us check us out, butI don't stand to make any money
(10:18):
off of this, I only stand tosave you money.
Nola (10:21):
Very cool.
Lori (10:22):
So is there anything that you wish non-tech people knew or
considered before they investedtheir time and money in getting
an app or a software developed?
Igor (10:35):
A lot.
Lori (10:39):
Could you narrow it down to a couple of the top ones?
Igor (10:42):
Yeah, I actually teach a class on this, called product
development, for an acceleratorcalled Founder Institute, and
I'm happy to add a link to thedeck I use.
But basically, look, sows arebad.
Developers speak a differentlanguage, both figuratively and
actually.
Sometimes, anytime you try toengage someone, that does a sort
(11:06):
of thing where they put abarrier between you and the
developers run the other way.
So, like a lot of dev shops dothis blended model where they
say, well, our developers are inIndia, but you have a local
project manager, product owner,you talk to them.
They'll talk to the developers.
Run the other way.
So think about how realcompanies do it.
That's why I always tell earlystage founders A real CEO of an
(11:30):
early stage company let's say,you have 10, 15, 20 developers,
you know who they are.
So if you don't know who yourdevelopers are, if you can't
talk to them, you're startingoff on the wrong foot.
You don't want that.
There's so much.
Nothing is free.
Any dev shop that says, oh,here's a blended rate, our
project manager is free.
What you really need is twodevelopers, qa, devops and this
(11:53):
and this and this, and let's tryto build you a team, but you
get free project management.
It's not free, right?
They're just packing it all upby building your team.
You probably don't need Give mea second.
I'll come back with more.
Lori (12:07):
I think that's always that kind of by the time people get
to you, you could have savedthem a lot of headache, but then
they didn't know that youexisted or some company like
yours.
Do you often consult withfounders or people with ideas
prior so that they reallyunderstand and educate
themselves first, or do peopleusually find you because of some
(12:31):
other means?
Igor (12:33):
Most of the time and this is a phrase I hear several times
a day is where were you a yearago?
So a lot of times it's that.
However, more and more peopleare coming to us first.
We work with a lot ofuniversities and accelerators
and just various programs, andmore and more, when an
(12:54):
entrepreneur talks to someonethat knows the ecosystem and
they say, hey, I want to buildsomething, they say hey, before
you do anything, go talk to FastCTO.
And what's even more interestingboth interesting and frankly
disappointing, or sad in a wayis women get taken advantage of
(13:16):
a lot more by these scammy devshops than male.
I don't have the numbers toknow whether they waste more
money or less, but they'recertainly a bigger percentage of
women.
They get scammed, and men likeper capita, and so what's
happening is, if you're a femaleentrepreneur and you go to
someone that knows what's up,they say go talk to Fast CTO.
And what that turned into,completely unexpectedly, is
(13:40):
about 80% of our clients areactually female founded, because
basically a lot of folks thatthere are, wherever they are in
the startup community in Bostonand elsewhere, they basically
get sent to us.
Lori (13:53):
Well, that's why we brought you here, because you
make this approachable and it'sso intimidating.
And then you add to that thewhile there are women making
head roads and technology, it'sstill decidedly favoring male
energy more than femaleentrepreneurs, and we wanted to
(14:14):
make this more accessible, moreapproachable.
So thank you for simplifying it.
Nola (14:20):
So you had talked about things that, in hindsight, you
wish people knew before theystarted an app.
So if somebody hasn't startedyet, what would you say their
first step should be?
What is the thing they shoulddo before they even think about
hiring anyone?
Igor (14:37):
Do some market research.
A find out what's out there.
If you find something similar,find the CEO on LinkedIn.
Everybody's happy to share, andso, if you have an idea, find
out who's doing what in industry.
Most people are happy to share.
There's enough room foreverybody.
Other people doing the samething isn't scary.
It means that there is actuallya demand for it.
(14:58):
So it's fine, go figure it out.
Then call Fast CTM.
We'll tell you whether youshould spend money on this or
not, and how much.
That's probably about 70,000.
Unless it's something supersimple.
Lori (15:08):
But it's like 10,000.
Igor (15:09):
Honestly rarely yeah, very honestly, unless you're doing
something super, super trivialor you're very aggressive with
what the M in MVP stands for aminimally viable product.
It's usually not 10,000.
Nola (15:24):
And you were so right about there definitely being a
market demand for apps.
We've got a statistic here that, according to Statista, by the
third quarter of 2020, Androidhad 2.87 million apps to choose
from and Apple users had 1.96million apps available.
(15:49):
What is that?
That's more than I can.
Igor (15:50):
That's a smaller number than I expected on it.
Nola (15:53):
Really Single digit millions.
Igor (15:55):
I don't know if that's accurate.
Nola (15:58):
Really.
Honestly, I think there's waymore apps than that, I think
there's a lot more than thatMost of them are garbage, but
there's a lot more than that.
Lori (16:06):
Wow.
Is hiring somebody to build anapp and hiring somebody a
developer, to build software ora software for service?
Are you using the same type ofdeveloper, like thinking a
developer one size fits all kindof background, or are there
specifics in that sense?
Igor (16:28):
It's more or less the same , but there are specifics.
Again, back to my house analogy.
Right?
Some contractors have moreexperiences with Rick houses or
wooden houses, houses on thehill, houses near water.
So there's definitelydifferences between a website or
a web app and an iPhone app andan Android app.
You're looking for the sametype of developers, but some
(16:50):
developers prefer mobile, somedevelopers prefer web.
So you need to put together theright team for the thing that
you're building.
And that's the attraction, bythe way, of dev shops, right?
Like for all the poop that Italked about dev shops, there's
benefits.
There.
They've got all these peopleunder one roof.
They could put together a team,whereas if you're going solo,
you have to scrape together yourown team.
Nola (17:12):
Speaking of which, if you were going to go and get
something developed, which wouldbe better hiring a company such
as a dev shop that has thatspecialty or hiring a freelancer
, and what are the pros and consfor each, have you been?
Igor (17:27):
reading my deck?
Yeah, not telling.
So I break it up into a coupleof different categories.
There's a technical co-founder,right, which is someone that
you basically don't pay.
They have equity and the pro ofthat is they're bought in.
The con of it is if they walkout the door.
(17:50):
It's messy, sometimes legally,sometimes emotionally, whatever,
and they are likely to walk outthe door if there's no revenue
for a while or if you don'traise.
It's risky.
The next kind of this is nothierarchical.
They're literally likedifferent threads of the same
thing.
Right, you've got something likea dev shop.
They've got a businessreputation, unless they're out
(18:13):
to scam you, which 5% of devshops, maybe a little higher.
So like, not most, but enoughthat it's an issue.
So, dev shops, they have areputation to uphold, but the
way they make money is bycharging.
It's like the same $40developers I mentioned earlier.
If you're paying $40 fordeveloper from a dev shop, that
developer is making 1721.
(18:36):
Usually the margins are about60%, sometimes a little higher,
sometimes a little lower, butusually right around there.
That's the con.
And then you've got freelancedevelopers up work.
I'm using as an example the prothere is like they want to
please you and You're payingthem by the hour usually, so
they're happy to work.
The problem is you're payingthem by the hour, just like the
(18:56):
dev shop.
So if you don't tell themexactly how to do something,
they're gonna invent the mostcomplicated way to do it Because
it's in their best interest todo that.
Usually not always, but usuallythere have been successes with
any one of those approaches andthere have been some Horror
stories with all three of those,and I'm not talking like out
(19:18):
there in the ether with me.
I've had horror stories withwith co-founders, with dev shops
, with solo developers, and I'vehad successes with all three of
them if I were approaching adeveloper or a dev shop?
Nola (19:30):
How can I tell if somebody were trying to scam me?
How can I tell if they'retrying to take advantage of me?
Igor (19:35):
You can't, not until it's too late.
I mean, I've gotten scammed asrecently as several months ago,
so it's yeah, it's hard.
It's hard like I have a betteryear for it or I or some body
part, but it's still hard.
And and the problem is, themore junior someone is, the more
likely there are tell you thatthey can do Anything you want.
(19:55):
Right like they've got a hugeego.
They haven't failed too badlyyet in their career and they're
like anything you tell me I canbuild it and their heart might
be in the right place.
But if you hear that aboutevery single thing, you're
saying Probably they can't.
On the other end, with a supersenior developer, they'll start
telling you, ah, you don't wantto go down this path.
(20:17):
Maybe I can build it, but maybedo this instead like really
good senior experiencedevelopers.
They'll feel a lot.
I guess you could say negative,but in a good way, in the way
that you need them to benegative.
Lori (20:29):
This has been enlightening and helpful.
Switching gears just a little,well, actually a lot.
We're gonna table that part forthe moment.
We love eating and, as a matterof fact, nola and I came up
with the idea for our podcastover dinner.
(20:49):
We thought it would beinteresting to see what your
personal favorite recipes areand how they reflect your
experience and journey Tosuccessful entrepreneurship.
Can you tell us about your tworecipes?
Sure?
Igor (21:03):
My first recipe is a mojito, because a mojito Is
actually hard to make and, nomatter what anybody says,
there's only one right way tomake and If you want to make it,
you'll fail the first timearound.
And Second, and the third, andeventually is gonna start
tasting like a mojito.
You have to make simple syrup,which is a whole process, but
(21:24):
eventually you end up, if youwork hard at it, a mojito.
I'll come back with how thatlinks in a second.
Okay, on the other side of thespectrum, I love making miso
soup and miso soup.
You can make a milliondifferent ways.
Experimentation is encouraged.
You want meat Great.
You don't want meat fine.
(21:44):
The only thing it must have ismiso, right, and water.
Like I've made miso soup dozensof times, no, two times the
same exact way, and it'sdelicious every time, almost
every time, almost every timeright.
And so With the things you'redoing in whatever type of
startup, you're doing, likethere are some things like
(22:05):
you've got to get right, there'sno other choice, and you might
get it wrong the first timearound.
On the other hand, you there'sthings out there that you got to
experiment with.
You know marketing, all thatkind of stuff.
There's no right way to do it.
Every company is different andyou're gonna waste some money
some of your, you know misosoups are gonna be not that
(22:27):
great, but there's a lot oftimes you're gonna end up with
something that works.
That's different from what youthought was gonna work, and
that's fine.
That's great.
It's very cool.
I thought of that Right beforethe show.
I wasn't prepared.
Nola (22:44):
That is very creative thinking, very creative thinking
, moving on there.
We asked you for one of yourfavorite quotes and you gave us
a quote that is actuallyauthentically your quote and
it's something you said.
(23:05):
You always say, and that isShortcuts are okay to take, as
long as you know you're takingthem.
So can you tell us more aboutthat and how it reflects your
experience and journey tosuccessful entrepreneurship?
Igor (23:20):
Yeah, the way it boils down on the technical side is
Any entrepreneur technical ornot technical telling a
developer go do something.
When that developer is left totheir own devices to Pick how
they're doing it?
They're gonna take shortcutsthat you're not aware of.
They're gonna make decisionsthat you're not aware of, and
(23:40):
sometimes those decisions to beright, but often they're gonna
be not right, but definitely notones that you had any saying.
And so what ends up happeninglater is in the back of your
head.
You have some you know thoughtsabout.
Here's what my company is gonnabe doing six months from now,
12 months from now, 18 monthsfrom now.
That developer doesn't know,and so they're gonna take some
(24:02):
shortcut that puts you in a deadend.
Right to then six months,you'll be like, oh, I actually
want to do this.
And that developer some otherdevelopers are going to say, oh,
I actually have to rebuild thiswhole section in order to do
that, but if they had known,they would have built it
differently and back when theywere building it, maybe it's a
(24:22):
one-hour difference.
A really good example thathappens pretty often is like
low-code, no-code type sites,right, like there's a bunch out
there like Bobble and etc.
And they're great.
I'm actually a big supporter ofthem for MVPs If your MVP is
the type of MVP that fits withintheir framework.
(24:43):
But what often happens is yougo down this path with and I'm
going to use Bobble just becausethey're the most popular one.
You go down this path like I'mgoing to build this MVP, I'm
going to use Bobble, for example, and you don't know where the
boundaries are.
You just looked at Bobble andyou said, okay, it looks like
they can do the thing that Iwant, but you don't know where
you're going to be six monthsfrom now, 12 months from now.
(25:05):
And so I've seen plenty ofsuccess stories of people using
Bobble or something similar tobuild their MVPs and they're
happy and it's great.
But I've seen way more examplesof somebody that uses one of
these low-code networks orframeworks, built something and
puts it out there and the firstclient they have says, oh, this
(25:28):
is awesome, you can't do thatwith.
Totally pay for it if it had Xand you realize that you can't
do that in Bobble, or you can'tdo it in some other area share,
tribe or whatever else and now,basically, you just spent three
months.
Even something like Bobble willcost you $20,000, $30,000.
And you're in the dead end.
You throw it out, start fromscratch because you weren't
aware of the limitations and youweren't aware of the shortcuts,
(25:52):
and so you don't want to beever in that position.
Meanwhile, it's perfectly okayto take shortcuts, as long as
you know you're taking them, andyou basically say, okay, I know
the right way to do it is thisI don't have the time, I don't
have the budget, the bandwidth,whatever.
I'm going to do it like this,but I know the gap and I know
(26:12):
how I'm going to bridge that gap.
When the time comes to it, youmake sure that there is that
bridge there.
Or, if it's not, you just madea conscious decision to go in
this direction and never go inthat direction, but you don't
want to be surprised by that.
That's expensive.
Lori (26:27):
Yeah, igor, all the information you've shared, I
feel like should be in achecklist that somebody who has
a non-tech person or even, atthis point, a tech person who
has an idea for a business modelbecause it's not just an app or
a software solution, it is abusiness model should get in
touch with you.
So can you tell our listenershow they can learn more about
(26:51):
you, your company, the servicesthat you provide.
Igor (26:55):
You should listen to the sticky brand lab podcast.
Nola (27:00):
Yes.
Igor (27:04):
So I am uniquely the only person in the world with my name
.
You can Google me and you willabsolutely find me.
You could find me on LinkedIn.
You could go to fastctocom CTOfor Chief Technology Officer.
You could email me, igor atfastctocom.
My phone number is okay ringIgor.
(27:25):
There's all sorts of differentways to get in touch with me.
Nola (27:30):
Listeners.
You can also get the links,details and information about
Igor, his company, fast CTO, theservices they offer and capture
his motto by visiting ourwebsite at stickybrandlabcom.
Lori (27:45):
Be sure to come back next Tuesday and every Tuesday for
another informative, inspiringand motivating episode.
And remember actions createresults.
So tap into your desire tocreate a business and brand you
love by taking 1% action everyday.
Small steps, big effects.
Nola (28:04):
Do you have questions about creating a personal brand,
side hustle or small business?
Sign up for one of our claritysessions.
For more information, contactus at stickybrandlabcom.
Lori (28:18):
You love it as little as three hours a week.
Well, you're working on it.
It's a big commitment.
Nola (28:24):
It takes about 30 years, but hey.
You have an idea for an app or possibly a business
software solution.
Sounds exciting, right?
Not to mention the friends andfamily who agree this is a great
idea.
There's only one tiny problemYou're not a developer.
So what do you do?
How do you develop your amazingidea into an app or software?
Well, stay tuned, because we'readdressing all this and more
(00:22):
with a Chief Technology Officerand Subject Matter Expert in
today's episode.
Lori (00:29):
You're listening to the Sticky Brand Lab Podcast, where
time-strapped professionals likeyou learn how to create a
business you love in as littleas three hours a week.
Is it possible to create an app, start a SaaS company or launch
a startup without a techbackground?
And if it is possible, whatdoes it take for a non-techie,
(00:51):
entrepreneur-minded individualto turn her great idea into a
viable product or business?
We wondered.
So we set out to find out andone thing we learned along the
way it starts with finding thebest people to help you see your
vision through.
Hello and welcome aspiringentrepreneurs.
Lori Annola here with adecidedly non-tech, savvy
(01:14):
approach to getting your app orsoftware solution idea on the
path to development.
But before we get this,everything you need to know
about turning your idea into anapp or software solution.
But we're too embarrassed toask.
Show started.
Be sure to subscribe to ourpodcast on Apple Podcast, google
Podcasts, audible, spotify orwherever you listen to podcasts.
(01:36):
That way, you'll never miss outon any of our weekly helpful,
informative and alwaysopinionated podcasts.
Now let's get this.
Say yes to built by anon-techie founder.
Show started.
Nola (01:52):
You are likely familiar with the following tech
companies Airbnb, Tinder,Pandora and Apple but what you
might not be familiar with isthat these companies were built
by non-tech founders.
That's right.
Airbnb founders had industrialdesigning backgrounds, Pinterest
founders were educators, andMichael Dell was doing trade and
stocks before he started Dell.
(02:13):
For non-techie people,ourselves included, technology
lingo is a foreign language, andwhen you don't speak the
language, it's understandable tofeel embarrassed, intimidated
and anxious the moment someonetalks to you using terms you
know nothing about.
So we set out to find atechnology expert who
specializes in working withnovices.
Just like most of us, we wantedsomeone who could help us
(02:36):
understand exactly what ouraudience needs to know in order
to turn their idea into a viableproduct.
Angel, Investor, Mentor,Advisor and Consultant.
Igor Belogrutsky is founder andCEO of Fast CTO, a company
dedicated to helping people andcompanies with great ideas get
them built the right way thefirst time around.
(02:58):
Or, said another way, you aretechnology evangelist, software
architect and thingy explainer.
Welcome, Igor.
Lori (03:10):
Hello, hi.
So before we get into thespecifics of how non-tech new
entrepreneurs can go aboutcreating an app or a software
solution, can you tell us whatis the most entrepreneurial
thing about you?
Igor (03:26):
Well, so the most entrepreneurial thing depending
on how you defineentrepreneurial or thing, I
suppose.
So a good entrepreneur, I think, has to be able to stand up
after failing.
In that way, I failed quite abunch, and so I think the
entrepreneurial thing is thatyou stand up and you try again.
Nola (03:48):
I like that.
Well, they say, there is nosuch thing as failure, only
lessons learned.
Igor (03:54):
Or failing forward.
Nola (03:56):
Yeah, fast.
Cto is a pretty unique company.
For one thing, your companydoes very little in the way of
actually building websites andapps.
In fact, you're more abouthelping people with ideas find
the right people to bring thoseideas to fruition.
Tell us about what your companydoes and what led you to start
it.
That's a great question.
Igor (04:17):
I've had a lot of startup and I don't think I've had a
single startup that was the sameindustry as a startup before or
earlier in my career.
Basically, you look for a funproject and you don't really
think about building on theprevious thing and going forward
.
So I had failure after failureafter failure, a couple of minor
successes, and then I ended upback in Boston after being in
(04:40):
San Francisco for a bit and Ifound this company that was a
group of a staffing company,right.
So they basically did the wholething that everybody does they
disrupt the industry, all thatkind of stuff in the staffing
space.
I started there as a firstemployee with two co-founders.
It took nine years or so.
(05:00):
We finally built it up, 120people or so sold it, several
rounds of institutionalinvestment, the whole journey
and I exited it.
I learned a lot, but the numberone thing I learned is that I
don't like staffing.
I can't.
You know, the way I definestaffing is you pay someone one
(05:23):
thing, you build them out at 3x.
That that's how you make yourmoney.
That's that Most of the worldworks that way.
But what it really means forstartups and entrepreneurs is
that anytime they go to findpeople to build something for
them.
Instead of working with thepeople that they should be
(05:43):
working with, they work withpeople they can afford, which
are people at dev shops that arereally getting paid three times
less than what you're payingfor them, and so what ends up
happening is a lot of times andit's kind of the hypothesis that
FASITIL is built on is that ifyou go and you Google, you know
why do startups fail and you getback a million different
(06:04):
results.
When you put in a pie chart, 80%of that pie chart you could
summarize as I spent too muchmoney to build the wrong thing
and now I'm out of money andthere's like a lot of different
ways you could walk into thatstatement, but at the end of it,
you had some amount of moneyyou tossed over the fence to
some dev shop and, you know, two, three months later, you got
(06:26):
nothing to show for.
So basically, fasitil, the ideabehind it, is, instead of doing
that, bring along for the ridesomebody that built a company
very similar to yours already.
They know exactly what themilestone should be and they can
direct a team of developers onexactly what they need to do and
(06:48):
how, and so if we take a CTOlike that and we make them
affordable.
That's where the magic.
Lori (06:53):
I love that, that kind of piggybacks on a question that I
want to tie in here, which isfast.
Cto is more than justconnecting the customer to the
developer.
Could you kind of help explainin giving it a better
understanding, because it's notjust about finding a developer.
I mean, if you're talking 70Kor you've got something, that's
(07:16):
even less.
It's not just developers thatyou are connecting people to.
Are there?
Nola (07:22):
language barriers and trying to explain a concept that
doesn't exist.
Igor (07:27):
Yeah.
So let me answer Nolia'squestion in exactly the way that
you need your question answeredas well.
The language barrier is notyour speaking English and their
speaking Korean.
The language barrier is thatyou're speaking non-tech and
they need to hear tech.
The analogy I often use isbuilding a house Right, so you
(07:48):
can find the best contractor outthere like really, really
experienced, well-pricedeverything contractor and you
could say, okay, I have thisroom, I need a window in this
room.
Without any other guidance,they're going to use their best
judgment to put a window Right.
They're going to pick a wall,they're going to pick a size,
(08:09):
they're going to pick everythingand at the end you're going to
get a window and it's probablygoing to be well-installed right
, because it's a good contractor.
That's SOW, because on your SOWyou're going to say I need a
window, I need login, and you'releaving it to a developer to
decide what that means.
Right Now.
Imagine if you gave a little bitmore context.
I need a window because I'mtrying to grow some plants.
(08:32):
Now you've got a contractorthat says, okay, well, north is
this way, west is this way, eastis that way.
You've got a hill over there.
Best light is going to be if Iput a window on this wall and
then you put a window on theright wall, still their choice,
still their size, right,whatever they pick, but at least
it's on the right wall.
Now let's say you say, well,I'm growing this specific type
(08:53):
of plant.
They're like well, for thatkind of plant we need this kind
of glass, because that kind ofglass filters UV rays.
And then you say, oh, andactually I've got kids and say,
okay, well, now the window hasto be like this, and actually I
also want to put TV in here.
Well, now the window has tohave shades.
And then just open and close,right.
So the more information you givesomeone who's doing it, the
(09:15):
better they're going to do attheir job.
And the problem is that and itdoesn't it's not limited to
non-tech founders.
Most tech founders can't dothis either.
You don't know what thedeveloper needs to hear to do
the right thing.
It's just unknowable because itchanges every time.
Even I get it wrong.
Sometimes you have to explainthings in such a specific way
(09:37):
for each specific thing thatyou're trying to solve.
That's a language barrier andthat's where a CTO comes in like
a real CTO that's done itbefore that can marry the
business side and the tech side,and that's what we do.
Lori (09:51):
Cool, it almost sounds like you're a matchmaker, except
that you don't leave.
Igor (09:56):
Yeah, yeah, okay, stay and hold hands.
So, lori, to answer yourquestions, that CTO is decidedly
not a dev shop.
We don't sell developers, wedon't sell development.
But our mission in general iswe don't profit off of startups
Like Google us check us out, butI don't stand to make any money
(10:18):
off of this, I only stand tosave you money.
Nola (10:21):
Very cool.
Lori (10:22):
So is there anything that you wish non-tech people knew or
considered before they investedtheir time and money in getting
an app or a software developed?
Igor (10:35):
A lot.
Lori (10:39):
Could you narrow it down to a couple of the top ones?
Igor (10:42):
Yeah, I actually teach a class on this, called product
development, for an acceleratorcalled Founder Institute, and
I'm happy to add a link to thedeck I use.
But basically, look, sows arebad.
Developers speak a differentlanguage, both figuratively and
actually.
Sometimes, anytime you try toengage someone, that does a sort
(11:06):
of thing where they put abarrier between you and the
developers run the other way.
So, like a lot of dev shops dothis blended model where they
say, well, our developers are inIndia, but you have a local
project manager, product owner,you talk to them.
They'll talk to the developers.
Run the other way.
So think about how realcompanies do it.
That's why I always tell earlystage founders A real CEO of an
(11:30):
early stage company let's say,you have 10, 15, 20 developers,
you know who they are.
So if you don't know who yourdevelopers are, if you can't
talk to them, you're startingoff on the wrong foot.
You don't want that.
There's so much.
Nothing is free.
Any dev shop that says, oh,here's a blended rate, our
project manager is free.
What you really need is twodevelopers, qa, devops and this
(11:53):
and this and this, and let's tryto build you a team, but you
get free project management.
It's not free, right?
They're just packing it all upby building your team.
You probably don't need Give mea second.
I'll come back with more.
Lori (12:07):
I think that's always that kind of by the time people get
to you, you could have savedthem a lot of headache, but then
they didn't know that youexisted or some company like
yours.
Do you often consult withfounders or people with ideas
prior so that they reallyunderstand and educate
themselves first, or do peopleusually find you because of some
(12:31):
other means?
Igor (12:33):
Most of the time and this is a phrase I hear several times
a day is where were you a yearago?
So a lot of times it's that.
However, more and more peopleare coming to us first.
We work with a lot ofuniversities and accelerators
and just various programs, andmore and more, when an
(12:54):
entrepreneur talks to someonethat knows the ecosystem and
they say, hey, I want to buildsomething, they say hey, before
you do anything, go talk to FastCTO.
And what's even more interestingboth interesting and frankly
disappointing, or sad in a wayis women get taken advantage of
(13:16):
a lot more by these scammy devshops than male.
I don't have the numbers toknow whether they waste more
money or less, but they'recertainly a bigger percentage of
women.
They get scammed, and men likeper capita, and so what's
happening is, if you're a femaleentrepreneur and you go to
someone that knows what's up,they say go talk to Fast CTO.
And what that turned into,completely unexpectedly, is
(13:40):
about 80% of our clients areactually female founded, because
basically a lot of folks thatthere are, wherever they are in
the startup community in Bostonand elsewhere, they basically
get sent to us.
Lori (13:53):
Well, that's why we brought you here, because you
make this approachable and it'sso intimidating.
And then you add to that thewhile there are women making
head roads and technology, it'sstill decidedly favoring male
energy more than femaleentrepreneurs, and we wanted to
(14:14):
make this more accessible, moreapproachable.
So thank you for simplifying it.
Nola (14:20):
So you had talked about things that, in hindsight, you
wish people knew before theystarted an app.
So if somebody hasn't startedyet, what would you say their
first step should be?
What is the thing they shoulddo before they even think about
hiring anyone?
Igor (14:37):
Do some market research.
A find out what's out there.
If you find something similar,find the CEO on LinkedIn.
Everybody's happy to share, andso, if you have an idea, find
out who's doing what in industry.
Most people are happy to share.
There's enough room foreverybody.
Other people doing the samething isn't scary.
It means that there is actuallya demand for it.
(14:58):
So it's fine, go figure it out.
Then call Fast CTM.
We'll tell you whether youshould spend money on this or
not, and how much.
That's probably about 70,000.
Unless it's something supersimple.
Lori (15:08):
But it's like 10,000.
Igor (15:09):
Honestly rarely yeah, very honestly, unless you're doing
something super, super trivialor you're very aggressive with
what the M in MVP stands for aminimally viable product.
It's usually not 10,000.
Nola (15:24):
And you were so right about there definitely being a
market demand for apps.
We've got a statistic here that, according to Statista, by the
third quarter of 2020, Androidhad 2.87 million apps to choose
from and Apple users had 1.96million apps available.
(15:49):
What is that?
That's more than I can.
Igor (15:50):
That's a smaller number than I expected on it.
Nola (15:53):
Really Single digit millions.
Igor (15:55):
I don't know if that's accurate.
Nola (15:58):
Really.
Honestly, I think there's waymore apps than that, I think
there's a lot more than thatMost of them are garbage, but
there's a lot more than that.
Lori (16:06):
Wow.
Is hiring somebody to build anapp and hiring somebody a
developer, to build software ora software for service?
Are you using the same type ofdeveloper, like thinking a
developer one size fits all kindof background, or are there
specifics in that sense?
Igor (16:28):
It's more or less the same , but there are specifics.
Again, back to my house analogy.
Right?
Some contractors have moreexperiences with Rick houses or
wooden houses, houses on thehill, houses near water.
So there's definitelydifferences between a website or
a web app and an iPhone app andan Android app.
You're looking for the sametype of developers, but some
(16:50):
developers prefer mobile, somedevelopers prefer web.
So you need to put together theright team for the thing that
you're building.
And that's the attraction, bythe way, of dev shops, right?
Like for all the poop that Italked about dev shops, there's
benefits.
There.
They've got all these peopleunder one roof.
They could put together a team,whereas if you're going solo,
you have to scrape together yourown team.
Nola (17:12):
Speaking of which, if you were going to go and get
something developed, which wouldbe better hiring a company such
as a dev shop that has thatspecialty or hiring a freelancer
, and what are the pros and consfor each, have you been?
Igor (17:27):
reading my deck?
Yeah, not telling.
So I break it up into a coupleof different categories.
There's a technical co-founder,right, which is someone that
you basically don't pay.
They have equity and the pro ofthat is they're bought in.
The con of it is if they walkout the door.
(17:50):
It's messy, sometimes legally,sometimes emotionally, whatever,
and they are likely to walk outthe door if there's no revenue
for a while or if you don'traise.
It's risky.
The next kind of this is nothierarchical.
They're literally likedifferent threads of the same
thing.
Right, you've got something likea dev shop.
They've got a businessreputation, unless they're out
(18:13):
to scam you, which 5% of devshops, maybe a little higher.
So like, not most, but enoughthat it's an issue.
So, dev shops, they have areputation to uphold, but the
way they make money is bycharging.
It's like the same $40developers I mentioned earlier.
If you're paying $40 fordeveloper from a dev shop, that
developer is making 1721.
(18:36):
Usually the margins are about60%, sometimes a little higher,
sometimes a little lower, butusually right around there.
That's the con.
And then you've got freelancedevelopers up work.
I'm using as an example the prothere is like they want to
please you and You're payingthem by the hour usually, so
they're happy to work.
The problem is you're payingthem by the hour, just like the
(18:56):
dev shop.
So if you don't tell themexactly how to do something,
they're gonna invent the mostcomplicated way to do it Because
it's in their best interest todo that.
Usually not always, but usuallythere have been successes with
any one of those approaches andthere have been some Horror
stories with all three of those,and I'm not talking like out
(19:18):
there in the ether with me.
I've had horror stories withwith co-founders, with dev shops
, with solo developers, and I'vehad successes with all three of
them if I were approaching adeveloper or a dev shop?
Nola (19:30):
How can I tell if somebody were trying to scam me?
How can I tell if they'retrying to take advantage of me?
Igor (19:35):
You can't, not until it's too late.
I mean, I've gotten scammed asrecently as several months ago,
so it's yeah, it's hard.
It's hard like I have a betteryear for it or I or some body
part, but it's still hard.
And and the problem is, themore junior someone is, the more
likely there are tell you thatthey can do Anything you want.
(19:55):
Right like they've got a hugeego.
They haven't failed too badlyyet in their career and they're
like anything you tell me I canbuild it and their heart might
be in the right place.
But if you hear that aboutevery single thing, you're
saying Probably they can't.
On the other end, with a supersenior developer, they'll start
telling you, ah, you don't wantto go down this path.
(20:17):
Maybe I can build it, but maybedo this instead like really
good senior experiencedevelopers.
They'll feel a lot.
I guess you could say negative,but in a good way, in the way
that you need them to benegative.
Lori (20:29):
This has been enlightening and helpful.
Switching gears just a little,well, actually a lot.
We're gonna table that part forthe moment.
We love eating and, as a matterof fact, nola and I came up
with the idea for our podcastover dinner.
(20:49):
We thought it would beinteresting to see what your
personal favorite recipes areand how they reflect your
experience and journey Tosuccessful entrepreneurship.
Can you tell us about your tworecipes?
Sure?
Igor (21:03):
My first recipe is a mojito, because a mojito Is
actually hard to make and, nomatter what anybody says,
there's only one right way tomake and If you want to make it,
you'll fail the first timearound.
And Second, and the third, andeventually is gonna start
tasting like a mojito.
You have to make simple syrup,which is a whole process, but
(21:24):
eventually you end up, if youwork hard at it, a mojito.
I'll come back with how thatlinks in a second.
Okay, on the other side of thespectrum, I love making miso
soup and miso soup.
You can make a milliondifferent ways.
Experimentation is encouraged.
You want meat Great.
You don't want meat fine.
(21:44):
The only thing it must have ismiso, right, and water.
Like I've made miso soup dozensof times, no, two times the
same exact way, and it'sdelicious every time, almost
every time, almost every timeright.
And so With the things you'redoing in whatever type of
startup, you're doing, likethere are some things like
(22:05):
you've got to get right, there'sno other choice, and you might
get it wrong the first timearound.
On the other hand, you there'sthings out there that you got to
experiment with.
You know marketing, all thatkind of stuff.
There's no right way to do it.
Every company is different andyou're gonna waste some money
some of your, you know misosoups are gonna be not that
(22:27):
great, but there's a lot oftimes you're gonna end up with
something that works.
That's different from what youthought was gonna work, and
that's fine.
That's great.
It's very cool.
I thought of that Right beforethe show.
I wasn't prepared.
Nola (22:44):
That is very creative thinking, very creative thinking
, moving on there.
We asked you for one of yourfavorite quotes and you gave us
a quote that is actuallyauthentically your quote and
it's something you said.
(23:05):
You always say, and that isShortcuts are okay to take, as
long as you know you're takingthem.
So can you tell us more aboutthat and how it reflects your
experience and journey tosuccessful entrepreneurship?
Igor (23:20):
Yeah, the way it boils down on the technical side is
Any entrepreneur technical ornot technical telling a
developer go do something.
When that developer is left totheir own devices to Pick how
they're doing it?
They're gonna take shortcutsthat you're not aware of.
They're gonna make decisionsthat you're not aware of, and
(23:40):
sometimes those decisions to beright, but often they're gonna
be not right, but definitely notones that you had any saying.
And so what ends up happeninglater is in the back of your
head.
You have some you know thoughtsabout.
Here's what my company is gonnabe doing six months from now,
12 months from now, 18 monthsfrom now.
That developer doesn't know,and so they're gonna take some
(24:02):
shortcut that puts you in a deadend.
Right to then six months,you'll be like, oh, I actually
want to do this.
And that developer some otherdevelopers are going to say, oh,
I actually have to rebuild thiswhole section in order to do
that, but if they had known,they would have built it
differently and back when theywere building it, maybe it's a
(24:22):
one-hour difference.
A really good example thathappens pretty often is like
low-code, no-code type sites,right, like there's a bunch out
there like Bobble and etc.
And they're great.
I'm actually a big supporter ofthem for MVPs If your MVP is
the type of MVP that fits withintheir framework.
(24:43):
But what often happens is yougo down this path with and I'm
going to use Bobble just becausethey're the most popular one.
You go down this path like I'mgoing to build this MVP, I'm
going to use Bobble, for example, and you don't know where the
boundaries are.
You just looked at Bobble andyou said, okay, it looks like
they can do the thing that Iwant, but you don't know where
you're going to be six monthsfrom now, 12 months from now.
(25:05):
And so I've seen plenty ofsuccess stories of people using
Bobble or something similar tobuild their MVPs and they're
happy and it's great.
But I've seen way more examplesof somebody that uses one of
these low-code networks orframeworks, built something and
puts it out there and the firstclient they have says, oh, this
(25:28):
is awesome, you can't do thatwith.
Totally pay for it if it had Xand you realize that you can't
do that in Bobble, or you can'tdo it in some other area share,
tribe or whatever else and now,basically, you just spent three
months.
Even something like Bobble willcost you $20,000, $30,000.
And you're in the dead end.
You throw it out, start fromscratch because you weren't
aware of the limitations and youweren't aware of the shortcuts,
(25:52):
and so you don't want to beever in that position.
Meanwhile, it's perfectly okayto take shortcuts, as long as
you know you're taking them, andyou basically say, okay, I know
the right way to do it is thisI don't have the time, I don't
have the budget, the bandwidth,whatever.
I'm going to do it like this,but I know the gap and I know
(26:12):
how I'm going to bridge that gap.
When the time comes to it, youmake sure that there is that
bridge there.
Or, if it's not, you just madea conscious decision to go in
this direction and never go inthat direction, but you don't
want to be surprised by that.
That's expensive.
Lori (26:27):
Yeah, igor, all the information you've shared, I
feel like should be in achecklist that somebody who has
a non-tech person or even, atthis point, a tech person who
has an idea for a business modelbecause it's not just an app or
a software solution, it is abusiness model should get in
touch with you.
So can you tell our listenershow they can learn more about
(26:51):
you, your company, the servicesthat you provide.
Igor (26:55):
You should listen to the sticky brand lab podcast.
Nola (27:00):
Yes.
Igor (27:04):
So I am uniquely the only person in the world with my name
.
You can Google me and you willabsolutely find me.
You could find me on LinkedIn.
You could go to fastctocom CTOfor Chief Technology Officer.
You could email me, igor atfastctocom.
My phone number is okay ringIgor.
(27:25):
There's all sorts of differentways to get in touch with me.
Nola (27:30):
Listeners.
You can also get the links,details and information about
Igor, his company, fast CTO, theservices they offer and capture
his motto by visiting ourwebsite at stickybrandlabcom.
Lori (27:45):
Be sure to come back next Tuesday and every Tuesday for
another informative, inspiringand motivating episode.
And remember actions createresults.
So tap into your desire tocreate a business and brand you
love by taking 1% action everyday.
Small steps, big effects.
Nola (28:04):
Do you have questions about creating a personal brand,
side hustle or small business?
Sign up for one of our claritysessions.
For more information, contactus at stickybrandlabcom.
Lori (28:18):
You love it as little as three hours a week.
Well, you're working on it.
It's a big commitment.
Nola (28:24):
It takes about 30 years, but hey.
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