September 10, 2025 • 34 mins
Drew Boa turns the traditional approach to overcoming pornography addiction on its head with his groundbreaking perspective that freedom comes not through battling your sexuality, but by befriending it. As the founder of Husband Material Ministries and author of "Outgrow Porn," Drew shares his personal 10-year journey of freedom and the revolutionary insights he's gained from working with hundreds of men.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast.
We are Brad and Kate.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've
survived both dark times andexperienced restoration.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Now as a licensed marriage counselor and
relationship coaches.
We help couples to regain hopeand joy.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We invite you to journey with us, as we are still
becoming one.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Let's start the conversation.
Hello everyone, Welcome back toStill Becoming One.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome back.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
We are so glad that you're here.
We're really excited today tointroduce to you a friend of
mine and hopefully maybe a newname for you guys.
Drew Boa is joining us.
He is the CEO of HusbandMaterial Ministries, where he
helps men outgrow porn, and heis the author of a brand new
(00:58):
book just out now called OutgrowPorn with Drew Boa.
And Drew lives in Colorado withhis wife and his kids and he
loves all kinds of adventuresout there.
I follow you on Instagram, Ithink and I get to see some of
the fun pictures.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Sounds more fun than Lancaster, for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, so, drew, it is so great to have you on.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Thanks Brad, Thanks Kate, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
We're so glad.
So tell us a little bit aboutkind of your inspiration for
writing your new book.
I'm kind of curious, like howyou got there and going okay, I
want to, I want to do a book.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
It all came from my own personal story of being free
from internet porn for the past10 years and finding out what
works, what doesn't work,meeting with hundreds of guys
and finding out the places wherethey're getting stuck or the
concepts that really resonateand lead to lasting freedom,
(01:57):
cause I already had over a yearof freedom before my last
relapse in 2014, but, man,certain fantasies still had so
much power over me, yeah, andthat's what drove me to go
deeper.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
That's awesome, that's awesome.
So one of the things that Ireally like about your book
already that I've got to see isthe whole idea of finding
lasting freedom without just thebehavior change kind of stuff.
Like so often and I know youand I have talked about this
before so often there's a lot ofthings out there, especially in
(02:33):
church world, that seems to belike just do some behavior
changes, just do some actionsand that will stop the habit, as
if it's like the habit ofeating potato chips or something
like that.
So tell us a little bit abouthow you have encouraged people
(02:54):
to do that differently.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Well, the problem is that the more we resist sexual
urges and temptations, thestronger they get, and that
makes it really frustrating andexhausting.
We need a different approach Ifwe want to actually get to a
(03:24):
point where I just don't feelthe same need for those
behaviors.
And so I mean, if you want toreally get to the core of what's
going on underneath unwantedsexual behavior, especially
pornography, we have to thinkabout where did it all begin?
Okay, for the most part, menand women don't get hooked on
(03:47):
porn.
Boys and girls do.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Right, right.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
So chapter one of the book is called heal the boy to
free the man.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
That's where we start .
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, that's really good.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
And I think you're exactly right.
It is.
This is all the place where itstarts, and you're right, and
it's really good, and I thinkyou're exactly right, it it is.
This is all the place where itstarts, you're right and it's
going back and then we'rerepeating those patterns.
Certainly, the patterns grow,but you know, yeah, we're
repeating the same pattern overand over again yeah so tell us,
like, who did you write this for?
(04:23):
Like, who is your ideal?
Like I want them to pick upthis book.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
This is the best book for the guy who has already
tried accountability softwareand going to church groups or
12-step programs maybe even donelike biblical counseling or
something like that and yet theystill find themselves stuck in
(04:50):
the same old cycles.
Yeah, somebody who's open to adifferent approach that might be
uncomfortable or it's going tochallenge you to question some
of your assumptions.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Yeah, yeah, wow.
So how did you figure out someof that in your own journey?
What was that like for you?
Speaker 4 (05:15):
A lot of things changed when I met Rebecca, who
is now my wife, and when Istarted disclosing some of my
sexual story to her.
I realized that I'm not as freefrom porn as she thinks I am,
and if I'm going to make alifelong vow to this woman, then
(05:39):
I need to know that I can keepit.
Okay.
And that's where the namehusband material came from,
cause I needed to be husbandmaterial.
Yeah, I needed to know thatthere's not a relapse right
around the corner.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
You know, yeah.
And so that is when I reallystarted to learn everything I
could about porn and sexaddiction.
To learn everything.
I could about porn and sexaddiction, which eventually led
me into understanding more of mychildhood and adolescence.
And then that journey took meto the training that we did
together Correct Going throughunwanted guide training with Jay
(06:18):
Stringer.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Yep, that was huge for me.
Yeah, that training changed mylife.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah, and I would agree it was huge for me.
Yeah, that training changed mylife.
Yeah, and I I would agree, I,it was huge for me.
It I actually chuckle.
It was one of those things Ihad.
I had had a conversation withJay cause this was 2020 and it
was earlier that year.
I'd had a conversation with Jayand cause I really liked his
book I just recently found itand really liked it and was just
(06:45):
I think we kind of talked onthe phone for a couple of
minutes and he invited me to dothe unwanted guide training.
And I was like I'm too busy.
I really can't.
At that point I was trying tojuggle a full-time job and the
counseling job on the side, soalmost two full-time jobs and I
was like I just really can't.
(07:06):
And then COVID hit and I waslike Jay, do you still have room
?
I have time now.
So it was totally this opendoor kind of thing and I agree
it solidified a lot of thingsfor me.
I like to say, actually I tellall the guys that I work with
that part of my healing journeywas going to a narrative family
(07:30):
therapist that had a lot of thebases that Jay has taught in,
that Dan Allender has taught in.
So I was doing a lot of thatsame work and then reading Jay's
book, I'm like, yes, this putin words what I experienced.
So I think for me that was thatpart of going through.
(07:52):
That was like okay, this givesme a framework to kind of go
back to and go what actuallyhelped me.
But I think what actually alsohelps people.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Yeah totally, yes, me .
But I think what actually alsohelps people?
Yeah, totally yes, unwantedgives the framework and the big
picture for where unwantedsexual behavior comes from and
what healing can look like.
It lacks some of the practicaltools that I'm trying to teach
(08:23):
in Outgrow Porn.
That's awesome, so in some waysit's picking up from where that
book left off, because it's afantastic book, and also like
now what let's get some stepsand tools and stories of what
does it really mean to face yourfantasies or to heal the child
(08:46):
within you.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, that work in actuallytalking to that little boy is a
pretty big deal yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
So, yeah, that's what changed everything for me
personally, because I no longerfelt like I'm fighting a battle
against myself, right, I feltlike I'm learning to love myself
.
I'm learning to receive God'slove in the places where I
haven't yet.
So it's befriending mysexuality, not battling it,
(09:21):
correct?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Correct.
That's really good yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, it's so good and I'm so glad that you wrote
this, I'm so glad that you'rekind of continuing growing that.
I really hope that some of therecovery groups and churches out
there get a hold of this,because I literally was just
talking with somebody who isgoing to be joining my unwanted
(09:46):
sexual behavior group herecoming up this fall, and they
made this comment of theirrecovery group of it really
helped me to stop porn frombeing an everyday problem to a
maybe every three-month problem,and I hear that so often from
recovery groups.
Right, sure, it gave me someresources and places to talk and
(10:11):
stuff that helps in the moment,but it doesn't change anything
fundamental, right, it doesn'tactually dig into why is this
here in the first place, or whatdo I do to actually take care
of myself or heal?
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Once you get to that point of maybe every three
months, you start to see morepatterns.
Yes.
And those patterns are alwaysparticular.
Yes, they're so unique.
Yeah, and that's a greatstarting point for story work
and seeing.
(10:48):
Hmm, I wonder why every time,my wife goes out of town right.
I feel this intense urge rightRight.
Like.
That's where a lot of thedeeper work can come into focus.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, I'm curious.
You obviously you know yourfirst chapter is, you know,
healing the boy within.
You obviously wrote this forguys.
I'm curious what do you thinkabout wives reading this, as
they're seeing their husbandstrying to wrestle with this
issue?
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Yeah, they're going to get a lot of insight into
understanding what is going onwithin this man.
Yeah, it's not an excuse, right, doesn't justify anything.
It is an explanation, okay, andyeah, I think it can really
(11:43):
help to make sense as well ofthe specific sexual fantasies
that are often so confusing.
So I share vulnerably about myown sexual fetish for braces and
orthodontics, and I mean thereare endless versions of that for
each person.
So to think about why that,what's going on with that, and
(12:09):
to have some answers can bringrelief.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
It can reduce shame yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah.
Of course.
Yeah, and I think that's soimportant.
It's one of those areas thatmost people don't end up talking
about, right.
And I've seen this in othergroups.
Groups they go to other thingsand they're like oh, I have to
report in on how I did and allthis kind of stuff all the time,
but they don't actually talkabout even what draws them or
(12:35):
why it drew them or what thecontent was.
That, that arousal templatestuff which is really important
to recognize because that's,it's there for a reason.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
It's there for a part of it.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
And I think that explanation you know you said
it's not an excuse, it's anexplanation I think that's very
needed because I think thechurch specifically has
struggled to understand that andtherefore be able to give good
insights.
And when people are strugglingand they're going to their
church and they're trying to gethelp, I think that gets missed
(13:12):
a ton.
And I think that you know, I endup working with a lot of the
spouses, but also work with somewomen as well, with unwanted
sexual behavior.
And it's interesting because,even if unwanted sexual behavior
isn't something you've used totake care of yourself over the
(13:33):
years, we all want to know whywe go back to what we go back to
and why it's there, whatpurpose it's serving, what did
it, where did it originate from?
Because, as you said, it doeshelp us to understand why we're
taking care of ourselves thatway, and I know, with the
clients that I work with, evenjust being able to use that
(13:55):
phrase of okay, this is how Iwas taking care of myself.
So it's not just that I'mdisgusting, that I need to stop
All of these things that justmake people feel worse.
And I can't speak to itpersonally, but I would imagine
don't send them.
Don't often keep them on theroad to recovery because they're
just based in.
(14:16):
You're gross, something's wrongwith you, kind of thing and I
feel like the church hasperpetuated that, unfortunately
because of their lack ofunderstanding.
I don't think it's on purpose,but it's also something we need
to be better at, for sure.
So I think that explanation isa really beautiful thing, yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
All right, and it can also help to reinforce the
truth that, wives and partners,you didn't do anything wrong,
yeah.
Yeah, yeah, exactly thisstarted way before you came into
the picture.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah, well, and you bring up a good point, and I
think this is another one peopledon't often want to get into.
But, yes, for spouses, partnerslike this didn't start with you
, it didn't originate with youand, for all intensive purposes,
is not about you.
What about the parents who needto meet their kids in this
(15:17):
space?
Because I think that issomething that is a beautiful
gift, if you can right, because,if we're talking about, it
started with the little boy orthe little girl, which every
single one of us have strategiesthat helped us get through life
.
How can parents, no matter whatage their kiddo is, how can
(15:39):
they sit with them in a way thatinvites the conversation?
For where did I miss you?
What did right?
What didn't I give you enoughof?
What did I do too much of?
Like, yeah, how can parents sitwith their teenagers, adult
kids, and actually listen?
Speaker 4 (15:59):
well, those first few questions you just asked are
beautiful, like wow, how healingfor a parent to ask those
questions to a kid.
Correct, and also for anyparents out there whose kids are
(16:19):
struggling with this.
I would encourage you to viewyour role as a contribution, not
a cause.
Okay, that's good.
So there's not one specificthing that causes somebody to
develop an attachment to porn.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
And in today's world, kids are getting exposed to it
at three years old, six yearsold, yeah, and I believe that
for kids, porn is sexual abuse.
Yeah.
So for them, it's like thissexual abuser came into their
lives at such a young age, yeah,and oftentimes parents had no
idea.
And so, yeah, it's going to bereally hard to break up with
(17:04):
that abusive long-term partner.
And so, yeah, parents play arole in it.
Yeah, yet it's not just us,their peers influence things
Church, environment, schoolenvironment and just the
internet.
Changing everybody's lives hasall played another big
(17:25):
contributing role.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah, yeah, that's really good.
Appreciate that yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
So kind of on a different place.
Just a question.
I get this all the time and Ithink it's out there, whether
you have a church background ornot is especially with younger
guys is hey, we're not havingsex, we're not out there having
(17:50):
sex.
So isn't this just normal?
Isn't this just okay?
What's the problem?
Why is this not a good thing?
How do you answer some of thatquestion?
Speaker 4 (18:05):
Is this normal in the sense that it's common?
Yes, it's very common.
Yes.
Is it normal in the sense thatit's good for you?
No, it's not good for you.
Porn damages the brain.
Yep.
It hurts relationships and itfuels sex trafficking.
There's a really gooddocumentary about that which you
(18:25):
can watch for free, calledbrain heart world.
It's by fight the new drug, andit goes into the many different
angles, just using science andpersonal stories to bring all
the research and informationabout how porn affects people
into like public awareness.
(18:45):
So most people who arelistening to this and who are
reading my book already agreethat porn is a problem.
So I like to highlight adifferent piece of it, which is
what porn actually does forsomebody, hmm, and I think it
(19:06):
serves three functions it's apredator, a pacifier and a
punishment.
Okay.
We've already talked about thepredatory piece that targets
young boys and girls and turnsthem into lifelong consumers.
Right, you know.
The pacifier piece is alsosomething we've touched on.
Porn is often a way of copingwith childhood experiences,
(19:31):
unmet needs.
It's a way to soothe, to numb,and there's this third piece of
it, which Jay Stringer talkedabout in Unwanted, which is that
it's actually also a way tosolidify self-hatred.
It's a punishment.
(19:52):
At the same time, it's a way tofeel worse about ourselves.
Yes, and that's why kindnessand self-compassion are so
important.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
That's really important.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, good, yeah Good .
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, getting to the bottom of that self-hatred thing
is a deep, deep well, it's deep.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
So I once heard Jake Porter talk about how this works
.
I'm going to use some fancylanguage.
He said that relapse can serveas an intrapersonal confirmation
bias.
In other words, I knew it, yepRight.
The brain gets a hit ofdopamine by thinking I knew it.
(20:37):
I really can't get over this.
I knew it.
I really am a horrible person.
Just like you get dopamine fromthe imagery or from the
stimulation, you also getdopamine from the condemnation
too.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
Cause there's a certainty in it.
It's like if I'm trying tobelieve that I'm loved no matter
what, like there's going to besome level of uncertainty in
that, I'm still learning tobelieve it.
Oh yeah, if I'm still learningto believe it, if I'm still
learning to believe that I cantrust other people to be there
for me.
Like that requires uncertainty,but shame has a certainty about
it that it seems so appealing.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, it's that, and it's that self-fulfilling
prophecy.
And we even say it with couples, like there is something about
you as a couple believe it ornot that if we don't understand
our stories, we marry someone.
Or maybe we could say it thisway whomever you marry is going
(21:38):
to confirm the things youalready believe, right, if we
don't know what's playing then,believe it or not, it's going to
play itself out here as well,and so that makes a lot of sense
that it fulfills that what youalready believe about yourself.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Yeah, yeah, the reenactment right.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
That's right and you tackle this in your book.
So I want to ask you because itis some of the thing a question
I get often is people kind ofasking this thing of well, I
just have a lot of sexual energyor I just have this really high
sex drive, what do I do withall that?
(22:20):
If it doesn't go into theseunhealthy things, what do I do?
Go into these unhealthy thingswhat do I do?
Speaker 4 (22:30):
yeah, man, I wish I had a good answer to that
question 15 years ago.
Um four things.
You can do.
Four things.
You can welcome it and sayhello.
Sexual energy.
Um, right, there you are.
What brings you here today?
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yes, I love the curiosity.
Hospitality yes.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
Instead of hostility.
Yes, because those of us whogrew up in purity culture are
inclined to think oh, I'm havinga sexual thought, shut it down.
Yeah, make it go away.
Read some Bible verses and takea cold shower Like that.
That is the battle approach,which makes these feelings
stronger, but welcoming it, oh,it's okay that you're here yeah
(23:14):
um, that is a good startingpoint and then, understanding it
, asking deeper questions aboutwhat's underneath this feeling
that I'm having, or this thingthat I want to do Could be
something earlier in the day,earlier in the week or earlier
in my life.
You know.
(23:36):
So understanding is huge, andthen appreciating it, being
being willing to bless.
The desire that's driving theseurges could be a desire for
affection, acceptance, forsafety, a desire to be pursued,
(23:59):
a desire for touch, a desire forconnection.
You know, those desires arecreated by God.
Yeah.
So we learn to bless instead ofcurse our desires, and then
finally to regulate, to managethem in a healthy way.
That's what we can do.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Which I think is so logical.
And yet it is this thing that Ithink so many guys go.
I just, I just so sexual.
That's why I have to.
You know, my wife has to meetthat need all the time.
Or else, or like in, there's somany unhealthy things that
(24:42):
happen when we don't do exactlywhat you said of like, hey, this
is normal, but it does not haveto rule my life, it does not
have to rule all of my decisions, it does not.
Those desires aren't bad, butit doesn't mean that it has to
be the driver of myrelationships.
(25:03):
And I think so often we, yeah,miss that and get it mixed up
and I miss that sometimes, ofcourse.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
I mean, I'm still learning how to do this stuff
too exactly, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
I think too.
I always like to, maybe becauseof our own story I like to
equalize things right.
I think all of our copingstrategies for all of us that as
kids we develop to help us getthrough and deal with and do
well in our family of origin, orthe best we can right, they, um
(25:40):
, they all have downsides tothem, some consequences.
Consequences are just much moredifficult than others.
But I like to remind peoplelike even if pornography has not
become what you've used, it'sreally good for every single one
(26:01):
of us to look at what we use,because for most of us it's out
of proportion somehow or it'scaring for us in a way in times
that you know we're missingopportunities to actually be
cared for well or to care forourselves well, because this one
has specific consequences.
(26:21):
I think it feels like there aresome that are better than
others.
And.
I think, on one hand, yeah, Iguess we could honor that Some
are less destructive than others, but on the other hand, no
right, we all have to askourselves what is keeping us
(26:42):
from knowing ourselves better,honoring ourselves better,
loving ourselves better andthose around us?
So I think you know.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
There's stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Right, we all have stuff and pornography is not any
different than any other copingstrategy.
It's just the consequences thatcan be really different and I
want to honor that.
For some people it takes on anaddictive quality that feels I
don't want to diminish thebattle.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
But so do a lot of things right, it's just that
unfortunately.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
They're either socially acceptable, some of
them are socially acceptable.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
And you know.
But the running to you knowsubstances or alcohol or those
kinds of things you know, we'veknown for a long time, creates
these problems.
I think people are juststarting to wake up to the fact
that this thing that is easilyaccessible on their computer
does some of the same things.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Oh, absolutely, oh, absolutely.
And I think you can even go outfurther than those obvious ones
, shopping, daydreaming, right.
Your imaginative mind as achild, I think, was given to us
by Christ but I think canquickly for some people, become.
You don't even need to get to acomputer.
This up here can be the way youcare for yourself.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
like, yeah, whatever it may be for sure, yeah, we all
have pacifiers exactly that'sright.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
That's right.
Hence the picture on.
Hence the big pacifier on thefront of the book.
Yes, so it is important torecognize those things that
we're doing that are a pacifier,and try to figure out you know
how to get rid of it, right?
I remember?
I think we did this with all ofour kids who use pacifiers.
(28:37):
It's gonna be a kid's storyyeah, we only had two one, we
only had one.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
She used her blanket, that's right.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
So our oldest and like, instead of just taking it
away, right you I don't know ifyou use this that you cut it
open so it doesn't give the samesatisfaction anymore.
So now it's not like asinterested like I mean, let's be
honest I don't think thatreally worked.
Actually it worked a little bit.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
It was definitely traumatic for our oldest but
yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
But yeah, I mean, we all have those things, so yeah,
so, drew, we ask some questionsof all of our guests, just of
some life things as well.
So what are you doing inamongst of a million things that
you're doing in your ministry,in your work?
(29:32):
What?
Are you doing right now to keepyour marriage alive?
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Hmm, right now to keep my marriage alive, I am
looking into like spiritualprograms because we've realized
(30:00):
that we've done our relationshipwith God solo instead of
together.
Okay, yeah, and I want that tochange.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, okay.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
And I want that to change.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, okay, I love that Very cool.
Spiritual intimacy is such aninteresting thing to think about
Marriage journey.
Because you know we talk aboutlike emotional intimacy or
obviously sexual intimacy likewe're talking about, and those
are obviously so together, right, Like you have to do that
(30:36):
journey together.
But spiritual intimacy is thatreally interesting one, that it
is both an individual journeywith God and then with each
other, so it's interesting.
Yeah it's so cool.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
That's great.
So what do you do in these days?
On something that brings yourest?
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Well, I rest from sitting in front of a computer
all day by running up mountainswhen I'm done Nice.
Living in Colorado has been agreat place to do that.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Okay, that's awesome, for sure.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
That's a lot.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Well, it's great.
You know, while my body isresting, my mind is working.
But while my body is working,my mind is resting.
That's good.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah that's so good.
So, drew, where can ourlisteners find out more about
you and the book and all thatkind of stuff?
Speaker 4 (31:34):
yeah, you can get a copy of the book at
outgrowporncom or, if you're notsure about putting that
language into your browser, justdrewboacom, we'll get you there
.
And then the ministry that Ilead is called Husband Material
and that is a much moredeveloped, robust place to find
(31:54):
community and courses andcoaching and support and
retreats and as much help as wecan give to guys who want to
become sexually, emotionally,spiritually mature.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
That's awesome.
That's great, and you have yourown podcast too, right that's?
Speaker 4 (32:10):
right Husband Material comes out every week.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
That's awesome, very cool.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
That's awesome.
That's amazing.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
So we'll definitely put a link in the show notes for
all of you who are wanting tocheck it out.
And I really appreciate Drew.
There's so much that needs doneout there, so I'm just glad to
have another person who'sworking towards and representing
(32:38):
freedom.
Well, and working towards whatdoes growth look like, rather
than staying in shame.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Thanks, Brad and Kate .
Thanks for having me andhelping couples become one.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Yes, yeah we are certainly glad to promote it and
excited to see some peoplereaching out.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Yeah, I hope so.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Well, we just thank you for being with us and until
next time.
I'm Brad Aldrich.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
And I'm Kate Aldrich.
Be kind and take care of eachother.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Still Becoming One is a production of Aldrich
Ministries.
For more information about Bradand Kate's coaching ministry
courses and speakingopportunities, you can find us
at aldrichministriescom.
For podcast show notes andlinks to resources and all of
our social media.
Be sure to visit us atstillbecomingonecom and don't
(33:36):
forget to like this episodewherever you get your podcasts,
and be sure to follow us tocontinue your journey on Still
Becoming One becoming one.
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast.
We are Brad and Kate.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've
survived both dark times andexperienced restoration.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Now as a licensed marriage counselor and
relationship coaches.
We help couples to regain hopeand joy.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We invite you to journey with us, as we are still
becoming one.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Let's start the conversation.
Hello everyone, Welcome back toStill Becoming One.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome back.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
We are so glad that you're here.
We're really excited today tointroduce to you a friend of
mine and hopefully maybe a newname for you guys.
Drew Boa is joining us.
He is the CEO of HusbandMaterial Ministries, where he
helps men outgrow porn, and heis the author of a brand new
(00:58):
book just out now called OutgrowPorn with Drew Boa.
And Drew lives in Colorado withhis wife and his kids and he
loves all kinds of adventuresout there.
I follow you on Instagram, Ithink and I get to see some of
the fun pictures.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Sounds more fun than Lancaster, for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, so, drew, it is so great to have you on.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Thanks Brad, Thanks Kate, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
We're so glad.
So tell us a little bit aboutkind of your inspiration for
writing your new book.
I'm kind of curious, like howyou got there and going okay, I
want to, I want to do a book.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
It all came from my own personal story of being free
from internet porn for the past10 years and finding out what
works, what doesn't work,meeting with hundreds of guys
and finding out the places wherethey're getting stuck or the
concepts that really resonateand lead to lasting freedom,
(01:57):
cause I already had over a yearof freedom before my last
relapse in 2014, but, man,certain fantasies still had so
much power over me, yeah, andthat's what drove me to go
deeper.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
That's awesome, that's awesome.
So one of the things that Ireally like about your book
already that I've got to see isthe whole idea of finding
lasting freedom without just thebehavior change kind of stuff.
Like so often and I know youand I have talked about this
before so often there's a lot ofthings out there, especially in
(02:33):
church world, that seems to belike just do some behavior
changes, just do some actionsand that will stop the habit, as
if it's like the habit ofeating potato chips or something
like that.
So tell us a little bit abouthow you have encouraged people
(02:54):
to do that differently.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Well, the problem is that the more we resist sexual
urges and temptations, thestronger they get, and that
makes it really frustrating andexhausting.
We need a different approach Ifwe want to actually get to a
(03:24):
point where I just don't feelthe same need for those
behaviors.
And so I mean, if you want toreally get to the core of what's
going on underneath unwantedsexual behavior, especially
pornography, we have to thinkabout where did it all begin?
Okay, for the most part, menand women don't get hooked on
(03:47):
porn.
Boys and girls do.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Right, right.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
So chapter one of the book is called heal the boy to
free the man.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
That's where we start .
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, that's really good.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
And I think you're exactly right.
It is.
This is all the place where itstarts, and you're right, and
it's really good, and I thinkyou're exactly right, it it is.
This is all the place where itstarts, you're right and it's
going back and then we'rerepeating those patterns.
Certainly, the patterns grow,but you know, yeah, we're
repeating the same pattern overand over again yeah so tell us,
like, who did you write this for?
(04:23):
Like, who is your ideal?
Like I want them to pick upthis book.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
This is the best book for the guy who has already
tried accountability softwareand going to church groups or
12-step programs maybe even donelike biblical counseling or
something like that and yet theystill find themselves stuck in
(04:50):
the same old cycles.
Yeah, somebody who's open to adifferent approach that might be
uncomfortable or it's going tochallenge you to question some
of your assumptions.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Yeah, yeah, wow.
So how did you figure out someof that in your own journey?
What was that like for you?
Speaker 4 (05:15):
A lot of things changed when I met Rebecca, who
is now my wife, and when Istarted disclosing some of my
sexual story to her.
I realized that I'm not as freefrom porn as she thinks I am,
and if I'm going to make alifelong vow to this woman, then
(05:39):
I need to know that I can keepit.
Okay.
And that's where the namehusband material came from,
cause I needed to be husbandmaterial.
Yeah, I needed to know thatthere's not a relapse right
around the corner.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
You know, yeah.
And so that is when I reallystarted to learn everything I
could about porn and sexaddiction.
To learn everything.
I could about porn and sexaddiction, which eventually led
me into understanding more of mychildhood and adolescence.
And then that journey took meto the training that we did
together Correct Going throughunwanted guide training with Jay
(06:18):
Stringer.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Yep, that was huge for me.
Yeah, that training changed mylife.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah, and I would agree it was huge for me.
Yeah, that training changed mylife.
Yeah, and I I would agree, I,it was huge for me.
It I actually chuckle.
It was one of those things Ihad.
I had had a conversation withJay cause this was 2020 and it
was earlier that year.
I'd had a conversation with Jayand cause I really liked his
book I just recently found itand really liked it and was just
(06:45):
I think we kind of talked onthe phone for a couple of
minutes and he invited me to dothe unwanted guide training.
And I was like I'm too busy.
I really can't.
At that point I was trying tojuggle a full-time job and the
counseling job on the side, soalmost two full-time jobs and I
was like I just really can't.
(07:06):
And then COVID hit and I waslike Jay, do you still have room
?
I have time now.
So it was totally this opendoor kind of thing and I agree
it solidified a lot of thingsfor me.
I like to say, actually I tellall the guys that I work with
that part of my healing journeywas going to a narrative family
(07:30):
therapist that had a lot of thebases that Jay has taught in,
that Dan Allender has taught in.
So I was doing a lot of thatsame work and then reading Jay's
book, I'm like, yes, this putin words what I experienced.
So I think for me that was thatpart of going through.
(07:52):
That was like okay, this givesme a framework to kind of go
back to and go what actuallyhelped me.
But I think what actually alsohelps people.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Yeah totally, yes, me .
But I think what actually alsohelps people?
Yeah, totally yes, unwantedgives the framework and the big
picture for where unwantedsexual behavior comes from and
what healing can look like.
It lacks some of the practicaltools that I'm trying to teach
(08:23):
in Outgrow Porn.
That's awesome, so in some waysit's picking up from where that
book left off, because it's afantastic book, and also like
now what let's get some stepsand tools and stories of what
does it really mean to face yourfantasies or to heal the child
(08:46):
within you.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, that work in actuallytalking to that little boy is a
pretty big deal yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
So, yeah, that's what changed everything for me
personally, because I no longerfelt like I'm fighting a battle
against myself, right, I feltlike I'm learning to love myself
.
I'm learning to receive God'slove in the places where I
haven't yet.
So it's befriending mysexuality, not battling it,
(09:21):
correct?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Correct.
That's really good yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, it's so good and I'm so glad that you wrote
this, I'm so glad that you'rekind of continuing growing that.
I really hope that some of therecovery groups and churches out
there get a hold of this,because I literally was just
talking with somebody who isgoing to be joining my unwanted
(09:46):
sexual behavior group herecoming up this fall, and they
made this comment of theirrecovery group of it really
helped me to stop porn frombeing an everyday problem to a
maybe every three-month problem,and I hear that so often from
recovery groups.
Right, sure, it gave me someresources and places to talk and
(10:11):
stuff that helps in the moment,but it doesn't change anything
fundamental, right, it doesn'tactually dig into why is this
here in the first place, or whatdo I do to actually take care
of myself or heal?
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Once you get to that point of maybe every three
months, you start to see morepatterns.
Yes.
And those patterns are alwaysparticular.
Yes, they're so unique.
Yeah, and that's a greatstarting point for story work
and seeing.
(10:48):
Hmm, I wonder why every time,my wife goes out of town right.
I feel this intense urge rightRight.
Like.
That's where a lot of thedeeper work can come into focus.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, I'm curious.
You obviously you know yourfirst chapter is, you know,
healing the boy within.
You obviously wrote this forguys.
I'm curious what do you thinkabout wives reading this, as
they're seeing their husbandstrying to wrestle with this
issue?
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Yeah, they're going to get a lot of insight into
understanding what is going onwithin this man.
Yeah, it's not an excuse, right, doesn't justify anything.
It is an explanation, okay, andyeah, I think it can really
(11:43):
help to make sense as well ofthe specific sexual fantasies
that are often so confusing.
So I share vulnerably about myown sexual fetish for braces and
orthodontics, and I mean thereare endless versions of that for
each person.
So to think about why that,what's going on with that, and
(12:09):
to have some answers can bringrelief.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
It can reduce shame yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah.
Of course.
Yeah, and I think that's soimportant.
It's one of those areas thatmost people don't end up talking
about, right.
And I've seen this in othergroups.
Groups they go to other thingsand they're like oh, I have to
report in on how I did and allthis kind of stuff all the time,
but they don't actually talkabout even what draws them or
(12:35):
why it drew them or what thecontent was.
That, that arousal templatestuff which is really important
to recognize because that's,it's there for a reason.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
It's there for a part of it.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
And I think that explanation you know you said
it's not an excuse, it's anexplanation I think that's very
needed because I think thechurch specifically has
struggled to understand that andtherefore be able to give good
insights.
And when people are strugglingand they're going to their
church and they're trying to gethelp, I think that gets missed
(13:12):
a ton.
And I think that you know, I endup working with a lot of the
spouses, but also work with somewomen as well, with unwanted
sexual behavior.
And it's interesting because,even if unwanted sexual behavior
isn't something you've used totake care of yourself over the
(13:33):
years, we all want to know whywe go back to what we go back to
and why it's there, whatpurpose it's serving, what did
it, where did it originate from?
Because, as you said, it doeshelp us to understand why we're
taking care of ourselves thatway, and I know, with the
clients that I work with, evenjust being able to use that
(13:55):
phrase of okay, this is how Iwas taking care of myself.
So it's not just that I'mdisgusting, that I need to stop
All of these things that justmake people feel worse.
And I can't speak to itpersonally, but I would imagine
don't send them.
Don't often keep them on theroad to recovery because they're
just based in.
(14:16):
You're gross, something's wrongwith you, kind of thing and I
feel like the church hasperpetuated that, unfortunately
because of their lack ofunderstanding.
I don't think it's on purpose,but it's also something we need
to be better at, for sure.
So I think that explanation isa really beautiful thing, yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
All right, and it can also help to reinforce the
truth that, wives and partners,you didn't do anything wrong,
yeah.
Yeah, yeah, exactly thisstarted way before you came into
the picture.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah, well, and you bring up a good point, and I
think this is another one peopledon't often want to get into.
But, yes, for spouses, partnerslike this didn't start with you
, it didn't originate with youand, for all intensive purposes,
is not about you.
What about the parents who needto meet their kids in this
(15:17):
space?
Because I think that issomething that is a beautiful
gift, if you can right, because,if we're talking about, it
started with the little boy orthe little girl, which every
single one of us have strategiesthat helped us get through life
.
How can parents, no matter whatage their kiddo is, how can
(15:39):
they sit with them in a way thatinvites the conversation?
For where did I miss you?
What did right?
What didn't I give you enoughof?
What did I do too much of?
Like, yeah, how can parents sitwith their teenagers, adult
kids, and actually listen?
Speaker 4 (15:59):
well, those first few questions you just asked are
beautiful, like wow, how healingfor a parent to ask those
questions to a kid.
Correct, and also for anyparents out there whose kids are
(16:19):
struggling with this.
I would encourage you to viewyour role as a contribution, not
a cause.
Okay, that's good.
So there's not one specificthing that causes somebody to
develop an attachment to porn.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
And in today's world, kids are getting exposed to it
at three years old, six yearsold, yeah, and I believe that
for kids, porn is sexual abuse.
Yeah.
So for them, it's like thissexual abuser came into their
lives at such a young age, yeah,and oftentimes parents had no
idea.
And so, yeah, it's going to bereally hard to break up with
(17:04):
that abusive long-term partner.
And so, yeah, parents play arole in it.
Yeah, yet it's not just us,their peers influence things
Church, environment, schoolenvironment and just the
internet.
Changing everybody's lives hasall played another big
(17:25):
contributing role.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah, yeah, that's really good.
Appreciate that yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
So kind of on a different place.
Just a question.
I get this all the time and Ithink it's out there, whether
you have a church background ornot is especially with younger
guys is hey, we're not havingsex, we're not out there having
(17:50):
sex.
So isn't this just normal?
Isn't this just okay?
What's the problem?
Why is this not a good thing?
How do you answer some of thatquestion?
Speaker 4 (18:05):
Is this normal in the sense that it's common?
Yes, it's very common.
Yes.
Is it normal in the sense thatit's good for you?
No, it's not good for you.
Porn damages the brain.
Yep.
It hurts relationships and itfuels sex trafficking.
There's a really gooddocumentary about that which you
(18:25):
can watch for free, calledbrain heart world.
It's by fight the new drug, andit goes into the many different
angles, just using science andpersonal stories to bring all
the research and informationabout how porn affects people
into like public awareness.
(18:45):
So most people who arelistening to this and who are
reading my book already agreethat porn is a problem.
So I like to highlight adifferent piece of it, which is
what porn actually does forsomebody, hmm, and I think it
(19:06):
serves three functions it's apredator, a pacifier and a
punishment.
Okay.
We've already talked about thepredatory piece that targets
young boys and girls and turnsthem into lifelong consumers.
Right, you know.
The pacifier piece is alsosomething we've touched on.
Porn is often a way of copingwith childhood experiences,
(19:31):
unmet needs.
It's a way to soothe, to numb,and there's this third piece of
it, which Jay Stringer talkedabout in Unwanted, which is that
it's actually also a way tosolidify self-hatred.
It's a punishment.
(19:52):
At the same time, it's a way tofeel worse about ourselves.
Yes, and that's why kindnessand self-compassion are so
important.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
That's really important.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, good, yeah Good .
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, getting to the bottom of that self-hatred thing
is a deep, deep well, it's deep.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
So I once heard Jake Porter talk about how this works
.
I'm going to use some fancylanguage.
He said that relapse can serveas an intrapersonal confirmation
bias.
In other words, I knew it, yepRight.
The brain gets a hit ofdopamine by thinking I knew it.
(20:37):
I really can't get over this.
I knew it.
I really am a horrible person.
Just like you get dopamine fromthe imagery or from the
stimulation, you also getdopamine from the condemnation
too.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
Cause there's a certainty in it.
It's like if I'm trying tobelieve that I'm loved no matter
what, like there's going to besome level of uncertainty in
that, I'm still learning tobelieve it.
Oh yeah, if I'm still learningto believe it, if I'm still
learning to believe that I cantrust other people to be there
for me.
Like that requires uncertainty,but shame has a certainty about
it that it seems so appealing.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, it's that, and it's that self-fulfilling
prophecy.
And we even say it with couples, like there is something about
you as a couple believe it ornot that if we don't understand
our stories, we marry someone.
Or maybe we could say it thisway whomever you marry is going
(21:38):
to confirm the things youalready believe, right, if we
don't know what's playing then,believe it or not, it's going to
play itself out here as well,and so that makes a lot of sense
that it fulfills that what youalready believe about yourself.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Yeah, yeah, the reenactment right.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
That's right and you tackle this in your book.
So I want to ask you because itis some of the thing a question
I get often is people kind ofasking this thing of well, I
just have a lot of sexual energyor I just have this really high
sex drive, what do I do withall that?
(22:20):
If it doesn't go into theseunhealthy things, what do I do?
Go into these unhealthy thingswhat do I do?
Speaker 4 (22:30):
yeah, man, I wish I had a good answer to that
question 15 years ago.
Um four things.
You can do.
Four things.
You can welcome it and sayhello.
Sexual energy.
Um, right, there you are.
What brings you here today?
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yes, I love the curiosity.
Hospitality yes.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
Instead of hostility.
Yes, because those of us whogrew up in purity culture are
inclined to think oh, I'm havinga sexual thought, shut it down.
Yeah, make it go away.
Read some Bible verses and takea cold shower Like that.
That is the battle approach,which makes these feelings
stronger, but welcoming it, oh,it's okay that you're here yeah
(23:14):
um, that is a good startingpoint and then, understanding it
, asking deeper questions aboutwhat's underneath this feeling
that I'm having, or this thingthat I want to do Could be
something earlier in the day,earlier in the week or earlier
in my life.
You know.
(23:36):
So understanding is huge, andthen appreciating it, being
being willing to bless.
The desire that's driving theseurges could be a desire for
affection, acceptance, forsafety, a desire to be pursued,
(23:59):
a desire for touch, a desire forconnection.
You know, those desires arecreated by God.
Yeah.
So we learn to bless instead ofcurse our desires, and then
finally to regulate, to managethem in a healthy way.
That's what we can do.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Which I think is so logical.
And yet it is this thing that Ithink so many guys go.
I just, I just so sexual.
That's why I have to.
You know, my wife has to meetthat need all the time.
Or else, or like in, there's somany unhealthy things that
(24:42):
happen when we don't do exactlywhat you said of like, hey, this
is normal, but it does not haveto rule my life, it does not
have to rule all of my decisions, it does not.
Those desires aren't bad, butit doesn't mean that it has to
be the driver of myrelationships.
(25:03):
And I think so often we, yeah,miss that and get it mixed up
and I miss that sometimes, ofcourse.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
I mean, I'm still learning how to do this stuff
too exactly, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
I think too.
I always like to, maybe becauseof our own story I like to
equalize things right.
I think all of our copingstrategies for all of us that as
kids we develop to help us getthrough and deal with and do
well in our family of origin, orthe best we can right, they, um
(25:40):
, they all have downsides tothem, some consequences.
Consequences are just much moredifficult than others.
But I like to remind peoplelike even if pornography has not
become what you've used, it'sreally good for every single one
(26:01):
of us to look at what we use,because for most of us it's out
of proportion somehow or it'scaring for us in a way in times
that you know we're missingopportunities to actually be
cared for well or to care forourselves well, because this one
has specific consequences.
(26:21):
I think it feels like there aresome that are better than
others.
And.
I think, on one hand, yeah, Iguess we could honor that Some
are less destructive than others, but on the other hand, no
right, we all have to askourselves what is keeping us
(26:42):
from knowing ourselves better,honoring ourselves better,
loving ourselves better andthose around us?
So I think you know.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
There's stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Right, we all have stuff and pornography is not any
different than any other copingstrategy.
It's just the consequences thatcan be really different and I
want to honor that.
For some people it takes on anaddictive quality that feels I
don't want to diminish thebattle.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
But so do a lot of things right, it's just that
unfortunately.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
They're either socially acceptable, some of
them are socially acceptable.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
And you know.
But the running to you knowsubstances or alcohol or those
kinds of things you know, we'veknown for a long time, creates
these problems.
I think people are juststarting to wake up to the fact
that this thing that is easilyaccessible on their computer
does some of the same things.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Oh, absolutely, oh, absolutely.
And I think you can even go outfurther than those obvious ones
, shopping, daydreaming, right.
Your imaginative mind as achild, I think, was given to us
by Christ but I think canquickly for some people, become.
You don't even need to get to acomputer.
This up here can be the way youcare for yourself.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
like, yeah, whatever it may be for sure, yeah, we all
have pacifiers exactly that'sright.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
That's right.
Hence the picture on.
Hence the big pacifier on thefront of the book.
Yes, so it is important torecognize those things that
we're doing that are a pacifier,and try to figure out you know
how to get rid of it, right?
I remember?
I think we did this with all ofour kids who use pacifiers.
(28:37):
It's gonna be a kid's storyyeah, we only had two one, we
only had one.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
She used her blanket, that's right.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
So our oldest and like, instead of just taking it
away, right you I don't know ifyou use this that you cut it
open so it doesn't give the samesatisfaction anymore.
So now it's not like asinterested like I mean, let's be
honest I don't think thatreally worked.
Actually it worked a little bit.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
It was definitely traumatic for our oldest but
yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
But yeah, I mean, we all have those things, so yeah,
so, drew, we ask some questionsof all of our guests, just of
some life things as well.
So what are you doing inamongst of a million things that
you're doing in your ministry,in your work?
(29:32):
What?
Are you doing right now to keepyour marriage alive?
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Hmm, right now to keep my marriage alive, I am
looking into like spiritualprograms because we've realized
(30:00):
that we've done our relationshipwith God solo instead of
together.
Okay, yeah, and I want that tochange.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, okay.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
And I want that to change.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, okay, I love that Very cool.
Spiritual intimacy is such aninteresting thing to think about
Marriage journey.
Because you know we talk aboutlike emotional intimacy or
obviously sexual intimacy likewe're talking about, and those
are obviously so together, right, Like you have to do that
(30:36):
journey together.
But spiritual intimacy is thatreally interesting one, that it
is both an individual journeywith God and then with each
other, so it's interesting.
Yeah it's so cool.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
That's great.
So what do you do in these days?
On something that brings yourest?
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Well, I rest from sitting in front of a computer
all day by running up mountainswhen I'm done Nice.
Living in Colorado has been agreat place to do that.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Okay, that's awesome, for sure.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
That's a lot.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Well, it's great.
You know, while my body isresting, my mind is working.
But while my body is working,my mind is resting.
That's good.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah that's so good.
So, drew, where can ourlisteners find out more about
you and the book and all thatkind of stuff?
Speaker 4 (31:34):
yeah, you can get a copy of the book at
outgrowporncom or, if you're notsure about putting that
language into your browser, justdrewboacom, we'll get you there
.
And then the ministry that Ilead is called Husband Material
and that is a much moredeveloped, robust place to find
(31:54):
community and courses andcoaching and support and
retreats and as much help as wecan give to guys who want to
become sexually, emotionally,spiritually mature.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
That's awesome.
That's great, and you have yourown podcast too, right that's?
Speaker 4 (32:10):
right Husband Material comes out every week.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
That's awesome, very cool.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
That's awesome.
That's amazing.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
So we'll definitely put a link in the show notes for
all of you who are wanting tocheck it out.
And I really appreciate Drew.
There's so much that needs doneout there, so I'm just glad to
have another person who'sworking towards and representing
(32:38):
freedom.
Well, and working towards whatdoes growth look like, rather
than staying in shame.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Thanks, Brad and Kate .
Thanks for having me andhelping couples become one.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Yes, yeah we are certainly glad to promote it and
excited to see some peoplereaching out.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Yeah, I hope so.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Well, we just thank you for being with us and until
next time.
I'm Brad Aldrich.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
And I'm Kate Aldrich.
Be kind and take care of eachother.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Still Becoming One is a production of Aldrich
Ministries.
For more information about Bradand Kate's coaching ministry
courses and speakingopportunities, you can find us
at aldrichministriescom.
For podcast show notes andlinks to resources and all of
our social media.
Be sure to visit us atstillbecomingonecom and don't
(33:36):
forget to like this episodewherever you get your podcasts,
and be sure to follow us tocontinue your journey on Still
Becoming One becoming one.
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