May 7, 2025 • 42 mins
What happens when the very strategies we develop to care for ourselves actually pull us away from our partners? In this eye-opening exploration of "imitation self-care," we dive into the complex ways our coping mechanisms can disguise themselves as healthy practices while undermining our relationships. Imitation self-care is challenging to identify because it often contains elements of genuine care. Exercise, comfort foods, and even music can be legitimately nourishing or secretly destructive depending on the emotional motivation behind them.
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Episode Transcript
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Brad Aldrich (00:04):
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast.
We are Brad and Kate.
Kate Aldrich (00:10):
In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've
survived both dark times andexperienced restoration.
Brad Aldrich (00:15):
Now as a licensed marriage counselor and
relationship coaches.
We help couples to regain hopeand joy.
Kate Aldrich (00:23):
We invite you to journey with us, as we are still
becoming one.
Brad Aldrich (00:27):
Let's start the conversation.
Hello everyone, Welcome back toStill Becoming One.
Kate Aldrich (00:34):
Yes, welcome back.
Brad Aldrich (00:36):
We are so glad to be here and keeping on this
journey of what does it mean tobecome closer together in our
relationships.
Kate Aldrich (00:49):
Yep.
Brad Aldrich (00:50):
So all right, before we dive into this big old
topic, what's been going onwith us?
Kate Aldrich (00:55):
Oh man, I don't even know.
Oh, with you and me.
Yeah, oh, this is our check-in,yeah.
People told you this week thatthey like to hear it when we
argue on air we've actually, andI told that that person like
we've that's not the first timewe've heard that people so they
like to see us flesh out things.
I'm not always certain I likethat, but not that I'm
(01:20):
embarrassed by it or I don'tmind anyone hearing it or seeing
it.
I think the thing for me iswhen we go so far down a road,
then I'm not in a place to wantto podcast the way that I like
to podcast we have only donethat once.
Brad Aldrich (01:36):
Disclosure right like what, where we've then said
like we can't we have only hadone episode that went in the
trash because we did not processit well.
Kate Aldrich (01:50):
And we ended up waiting and redoing it.
Brad Aldrich (01:53):
We actually redid the episode and had the
conversation and still disagreedand talked about it, but we did
it better.
Kate Aldrich (02:00):
We were both, I wouldn't say it's better or
worse.
We were both too activated,correct, and we've only had one
where we were both.
I wouldn't say it's better orworse.
We were both too activated,correct, and we've only had one
where we were recording.
Brad Aldrich (02:09):
Let's be clear, um sometimes before we hit record
right we've.
Kate Aldrich (02:15):
We've had a handful of times where it's
happened, where we're talkingabout the subject before we go
on online on air and then wenever make it to on air.
So there is that yes, happeneda couple times, I guess so when
you asked how we're doing, areyou suggesting that I'm gonna
start a fight?
Brad Aldrich (02:33):
no, no, not at all , I think I think this stuff is
is really good.
No, I'm just meaning it.
You know we're sunny it's sunnyand nice and yeah.
Kate Aldrich (02:43):
It's been a busy week and I'm looking forward.
We're podcasting, not on ournormal day, so today's date
night, so I'm looking forward tothat because we you know, in
our home it's just Mondaythrough Friday is long and a lot
, and we get to Friday night andit feels like an exhale.
Brad Aldrich (03:03):
Yeah absolutely, and you know we haven't talked
about date night stuff on herefor a long time.
Kate Aldrich (03:09):
The controversial topic of date night.
Brad Aldrich (03:12):
Exactly, it is right, but we have made this a
priority in our marriage for atleast the last 10 years probably
a little more than that thatwe've tried to keep a date night
every week.
Kate Aldrich (03:26):
Weekly, unless my memory serves me wrong.
So we might have an argumentabout this.
We started during COVID becausewe realized how stressed we
were.
We were doing regular datenights before that, but we
weren't like it wasn't a day ofthe week every week because the
kids were younger, believe it ornot, during COVID.
(03:48):
Everyone was home during COVIDand so it did.
It did look different.
We definitely um prioritizedour time and our three older
were so used to that, ouryoungest one coming in.
That's been a hard adjustmentfor her, but it was actually
during covid.
We were both like, okay, we'regonna go insane, we can't go out
(04:09):
.
And so that's when we started.
We made that door hanger thatsaid we love you, but go away,
we're on date night and we wouldjust sit in our room every
friday night because we couldn'tgo anywhere.
Um the times when the weatherwas fine, we would sit out on
our back patio but and just sitchat watch a movie.
Brad Aldrich (04:27):
We didn't have a lot of options, as you all know
but I think that actually sayssomething really good about date
night, like because I thinkmany people don't do it because
it's like, oh my gosh, I have toget a babysitter, oh my
goodness I, we don't have moneyto go out, like all those kind
of things.
We for us night is it is timefor just the two of us.
(04:48):
It is time for us to bespending together.
It doesn't mean that we'regoing out.
It doesn't mean that we'redoing anything other than
spending time together.
Yes, sometimes we'll go out,sometimes we'll go get coffee,
sometimes we'll go to therestaurant, but a lot of times
we're spending time just the twoof us somewhere you know, by
ourselves, I would actually saythat was our norm until after
(05:12):
COVID, honestly.
Kate Aldrich (05:15):
So our kids are older, our resources are
different, like it.
That us doing more out wasactually a result of a lot of
things, but those being the maintwo.
And so we usually did datenights in.
Maybe once every couple ofmonths we'd go out honestly, or
sometimes we get takeout andbring it home and whatever.
(05:37):
Yeah, we just it's just reallytime for us and so, anyways, I
feel like I got off on on thatside note.
We're we're doing well.
I think it's been a long week,but I feel like I got off on
that side note.
We're doing well, I think.
It's been a long week, but Ifeel like we feel that every
week.
Brad Aldrich (05:50):
I do.
But you know what and this isone of the reasons to have date
night and we've said this beforeof like there is for me, of
just knowing that that break iscoming, is this place of like.
Okay, it's Thursday night, Ican get there another 24 hours I
can like we're going to havethis break and and enjoy some
(06:11):
downtime together, which I thinkis really important.
Kate Aldrich (06:13):
And I you know we always want to be honoring when
you talk about our kiddos andand not be explicit with what's
happening with them.
But living in a home the waythat we do, there is a trauma
response in you and I.
That is like our capacitybeyond what we do with Aldridge
(06:34):
Ministries, which is soimportant, and taking care of
the girls, we don't have muchcapacity beyond that.
We are in a stage and we'rehopeful that will not always be
that way.
So we don't often do capacitybeyond that.
We are in a stage and we'rehopeful that will not always be
that way.
So we don't often do a lot onweekends and Friday night kind
of starts that, unless our kidshave things, and so we kind of
(06:55):
just like work real hard allweek and then figure out ways to
take care of ourselves wellthroughout the weekend.
Brad Aldrich (07:03):
So, yeah, ways to take care of ourselves well
throughout the weekend.
So yeah, and I think thisactually moves us into this
really important topic that wewere going to be talking about
is this idea of good self-careand imitation self-care.
And we've recognized we've beentalking about this for a while
of there are things that enterevery marriage, every
(07:28):
relationship, that at times endup pulling us away from each
other, and they often are thisidea of imitation, self-care,
things we think we're doing forself-care but often aren't that
healthy.
Kate Aldrich (07:47):
Hmm, yeah, I didn't think about the pulling
us away, but that kind of makessense.
This is a concept that I'vebeen just been rolling around in
my head and I keep saying toBrad we need to figure out some
way to give this words andlanguage, as Brad does, a lot of
journey groups through JayStringer's unwanted material.
(08:07):
You know it's always beeninteresting to me how there is a
part called arousal templatewhere you well, you probably
actually would be able to shareit way better than me.
So what is the concept aroundthat without getting isn't
specifically about unwantedsexual behavior, but what is the
(08:28):
concept of that within thecourse?
Brad Aldrich (08:31):
Okay, so the arousal template in unwanted
sexual behavior context, in JayStringer's work and whatnot, is
defined as the totalconstellation of thoughts,
images, behavior, sounds, sights, fantasies that arouse us
sexually.
But specifically, and I alwayskind of add this, it is this
(08:56):
unwanted arousal template.
Right, because there is goodparts of those.
Right, there's the thoughts,sounds, images of your spouse,
those kind of things that aregood parts of arousal template.
But there tends to be thisunwanted, this negative template
that we end up going to when wedon't necessarily recognize
(09:21):
this.
In fact, this is part of doingthis hard work is we recognize
we're going to it over and overagain and we're looking for this
.
In fact, I was talking with oneof my guys in my group recently
and he said you know, there'stimes that it's like oh, I found
this like pot of gold, thisperfect like thing, and
(09:45):
exploring what that is and whyit's perfect, which they have no
concept of Like.
There's no like.
Oh, I get why this is perfect.
The recognition is that thosethings are developed out of our
trauma.
Kate Aldrich (10:01):
Right.
Brad Aldrich (10:03):
Right.
And so the arousal template isso directly connected to our
trauma stories that we are oftentrying to either repeat trauma
in a way of almost trying to fixit, we're repeating it, we're
trying to bring a positive spinto this traumatic thing that's
(10:24):
happened over and over and overagain.
Kate Aldrich (10:26):
Or to understand it.
Brad Aldrich (10:27):
Or understand it, or we're trying to reverse it,
we're trying to flip the scriptso that maybe I'm not the one
who was powerless, or maybe I'mnot the one who was being
embarrassed, or maybe I'm notright.
Kate Aldrich (10:39):
Wouldn't that be fixing it.
That's what I've always kind ofsaid.
You're either trying to that'swhat I've always kind of said
Like you're either trying tounderstand it better by
repeating it or, as you said, orthat flipping it is actually
fixing it in a way.
I think both can be fixing it.
Brad Aldrich (10:59):
That's true, and I don't want to get too graphic
here, but somebody who's beensexually abused can go to an
arousal template where they arechoosing to get sexually abused.
There's still that choice partto it.
Kate Aldrich (11:14):
Right, right.
Brad Aldrich (11:15):
Like they're choosing it in this way of
fixing it, but they're repeatingthe thing that happened.
And I say this with a littlecaution on air because, look,
I've worked with guys who havehad these arousal templates for
years Right Years and years, andyears and years, and they have
no concept that it is at allconnected to their trauma.
Kate Aldrich (11:40):
Right Until we unwind that together.
Shame so it doesn't, but theyyeah.
So I asked Brad to kind of talkabout that because it's that
concept that I've learned aboutthrough, you know, brad's own
journey and working with menthrough the journey course.
That it kind of was rattlingaround in my brain and I was
(12:01):
like, but wait a second.
We all kind of do this, but notnecessarily with the arousal
template like peace, but oftenwe choose coping strategies in
our childhood and whatnot thatare an imitation.
Brad Aldrich (12:18):
Yeah Of real self-care.
Kate Aldrich (12:20):
Of real self-care.
Right, because the things thatevery one of us chooses are care
, and that's a really hardconcept for a lot of people
because they're like, oh, butmine is sinful and mine is wrong
and I don't like that, I do itand all those things may be true
, but it's still a form of careand if we look at your childhood
without it, as Dan Allendersays, I'm not sure.
Brad Aldrich (12:43):
We would have survived right or we would have
had definitely more consequences.
I mean, that's something I'vehad to wrestle with with my
stories is I know there weresome very unhealthier paths my
story could have taken me down.
So it like the unhealthy thingsare self-care but they don't
(13:05):
actually fill us the way that wewant them to.
Kate Aldrich (13:08):
Right, and I'll use my own story.
Thinking about that, I was like, oh, but so I think I've talked
about pieces of this, but mymain form of coping as mainly a
teenager I don't remember asmuch being younger, but was to
listen to music in my room,cause you we've shared before
(13:29):
that my dad was an alcoholic andso that brought a lot of um,
just kind of like predictableunpredictability in my home.
Like every night, dad was goingto drink too much.
It's just when did he start?
What drink were we on?
All those kinds of things, andI don't exactly know when, but I
(13:50):
learned to learn when to getout and just go up to my room.
And I had my Sony Walkman, asyou all know, which was my most
wonderful possession in my wholelife.
It was the sport model, it wasyellow, it went both forward and
backwards, which back then wasa big deal right, because most
of them just fast forwarded,they didn't rewind, didn't?
Brad Aldrich (14:10):
rewind.
Kate Aldrich (14:10):
So I thought it was, and it also for the radio
stations, like I could press one, two, three, four.
Brad Aldrich (14:16):
I know it had presets.
Kate Aldrich (14:18):
Yes, okay, anyways , moving right along.
So I would go up to my room andlisten to music non-stop, but
the other thing that I did is Iwould create a world in my head
where, once I actually thoughtabout it, I was for me.
I think it would be more offixing my world, like I would
(14:41):
often imagine being in a familywhere everything was just roses
and puppy dogs.
Right Like I, and I also knewthat was unrealistic, Like no
family I'd ever met lived likethat, but it was.
My parents were attentive, theywere kind.
(15:02):
There wasn't you know theirbrokenness and that is how I
survived my childhood right andI'm like.
But I think many of us arechoosing coping strategies that
are trying to fix it or explainit or understand it.
It is your brain's way of saying.
This is too much and I, as thisage, I don't know what to do
(15:26):
with it, but I have to copesomehow yeah, exactly, so we're
going to talk about some ofthese other things.
Brad Aldrich (15:36):
We've kind of brainstormed some ideas of
imitation self-care things thatwe do, that I think we as adults
still do and fall into Beforewe get to even kind of just
talking about what some of themare.
How do you think theseimitation self-care no matter
(15:57):
what they are, how do you thinkthey impact our marriages?
Kate Aldrich (16:03):
Well, you can speak from yours and I can speak
from mine.
It was a coping strategy that Iwas using right to deal with
harm, trauma and, I would say,the things in life I couldn't
make sense of and I couldn'timpact.
So for many years of thebeginning of our marriage I
(16:24):
don't see the music so much.
That's become something.
I've kind of like gone back toum, using music in a positive
way and being aware of when it'stoo much, but the I would go
into my head anytime things inour marriage weren't what I hope
they would be.
Brad Aldrich (16:42):
Yeah, Right yeah.
Kate Aldrich (16:43):
And I would recreate it Honestly.
You were almost always in thosemoments, those and and I I
hesitate to call them fantasies,because I don't think that's
what it is, but you were thereand I was making it better yeah,
right, right, and I couldmental escape place like eponine
(17:05):
in lame is.
I could live in my head in aplace where my body could rest,
and it was all good oh, yeah,yeah, and I'm gonna peel the
layer of betrayal off of mycoping mechanism, right, just
(17:26):
right, right, because that's adifferent layer well, and we're
not.
That's not what it started.
Like you right, when youstarted with that, there was no
one in your life that that was.
Brad Aldrich (17:35):
Correct.
Well, some people might arguethat, but you know what I'm
saying.
But I think if I peel thatlayer off and I just look at the
escapism, I look at the arousaltemplate stuff, really I think
one of the things I can see isthere were a whole lot of
stresses, difficult things thatI was dealing with that I
(17:57):
thought I could not bring to you, and so I would take them into
that fantasy world and I wouldescape with them and feeling,
feeling unaffected as a husbandjust amplified that place of
(18:19):
wanting to escape kind of thing.
So I'm kind of saying one ofthe places I think this happens
is this pulling away of thingsthat we're dealing with.
That until I could come to youand go I'm really struggling
with this thing that's happenedat work, or I'm really
struggling with how I'mparenting, or something like
(18:42):
that until we could talk aboutthose things, I think I
constantly felt very inadequateand then that's where some of
the escape stuff comes in.
Kate Aldrich (18:55):
Yeah, I mean inadequacy is not a huge.
I mean I guess you could boilit down.
The problem is with everybody'sthemes.
We could probably boil them.
Brad Aldrich (19:02):
Oh, they're all different.
Kate Aldrich (19:03):
They're all different, but you could
probably find the common thread.
But inadequacy wasn'tnecessarily where I went.
But yes, like when we gotmarried, then you certainly we
pushed into those things for meand it amplified them.
I didn't know what they were, Icouldn't give them words, I
(19:25):
only knew how to take care ofthem.
Brad Aldrich (19:26):
Yeah.
So let's talk a little bitabout, like, some ideas, because
some people are like well, okay, I don't do the fantasy thing,
I didn't do porn thing, it's notfantasy.
Kate Aldrich (19:34):
Don't do the fantasy thing I didn't do, it's
not fantasy, don't call itfantasy I didn't do the mental
escape because I really do thinkin this we need to use positive
words I agree and I think thereis a place with all of these.
Brad Aldrich (19:50):
We have to honor what it was correct in order to
figure out.
How do we do the healthy Honor,the imitation of the attempt?
Kate Aldrich (20:00):
for self-care Right, just like arousal
template.
There's nothing one way or theother about that Right.
Brad Aldrich (20:09):
So I think there is let's talk.
There are a couple of differentthemes.
Like one of them that we talkedabout that's totally different
is things around food.
Kate Aldrich (20:19):
Yeah.
Brad Aldrich (20:20):
So things like binge eating or comfort food
when we're feeling stressed orsad.
Kate Aldrich (20:28):
I think every human on the planet uses food.
And some people are going tosay, no, I don't, I control mine
.
Well, yeah, if you're stillusing food.
Brad Aldrich (20:35):
And some people are going to say no, I don't, I
can I control mine?
Well, yeah, you're still usingfood like that.
Kate Aldrich (20:38):
The fact that it's so controlled for you might
appear to be the healthier ofthe two lifestyles, but it's
still using food in a way tohelp you cope.
So I think everyone has tograpple with this one.
Brad Aldrich (20:57):
And essentially what we're talking about is
having your feelings, youremotions motivate consuming food
or not consuming food in a waythat becomes unhealthy.
Kate Aldrich (21:14):
Yeah, yeah Well, and the challenge with food that
I say to everyone is it's alsonot unhealthy.
At times, like people say.
Coping with food is bad.
The Lord gave us food, yeahRight, and he didn't just make
it about a biological.
You need this to live, to growwhen you're younger.
(21:35):
He actually has other plans forfood.
This is what I tell everybody.
We know food is in heaven.
Why would it be in heaven?
Our bodies are not going toneed it because the Lord created
it for other things, and foodis where we have community.
Food is where we haveconnection, like there are all
(21:57):
kinds of things that the Lordcreated food for.
That, yes, get very mixed up,but it doesn't always mean, if
you go to food in a way that isintentional, that it's a bad
coping strategy, correct, it'sjust.
(22:18):
How do I put boundaries aroundthat so that it doesn't become
control one way or the other, orloss of control?
Brad Aldrich (22:21):
And I think you've said and you've done a lot of
work on recognizing how ourstories, our traumas from the
past have impacted food in ourlives.
Kate Aldrich (22:38):
Yeah, I mean because I work with mainly women
, so body image has never notcome up with any woman I've
worked with and that is directlycorrelated to food.
Brad Aldrich (22:50):
Sure.
Kate Aldrich (22:50):
Right how your body carries and looks and all
the things.
Right, how your body carriesand looks and all the things.
So, um, yeah, I've had to talkto every person about that.
I think there is the largertrauma of growing up in the
United States If that is whereyou grew up.
Other countries, I do think itis different for some Um, but
(23:11):
there is a pressure on a womanjust being born a woman girl,
and so, yeah, we have to talkabout that.
I do think some men also havethat.
Brad Aldrich (23:23):
Oh my gosh, I think many, many men have that
right, like I think.
Kate Aldrich (23:28):
But it doesn't.
Can I say this and you sharewith me?
It doesn't seem to plague theirbrain in the same way.
Brad Aldrich (23:35):
It tends to women I, so here's the difference okay
, do tell I think like we canlook at lots of different
sources and see men who areoverweight, who still have value
okay, and unfortunately in oursociety it is very difficult,
(23:59):
not impossible.
Obviously they all have value.
I don't want to say this, butit seems as if the female
celebrities, the female athletes, the female whatever, are not
that right.
They're thin, they're that whenyou can look at a 350-pound
(24:20):
football player and go, oh yeah,he's got lots of value right.
So there's not this directcorrelation between male size
and popularity, value how theyfelt valued about themselves.
Kate Aldrich (24:35):
I'm more meaning like how society values them
right, okay, and that's a reallygood point, but I also think
there's how do they feel?
Because I've noticed 100,that's where so that's where
it's equal.
Brad Aldrich (24:49):
Really, I think so because I know I talked to lots
of men who feel unhealthy abouttheir body.
They don't like the way theirbody looks.
Kate Aldrich (24:59):
The difference that I think that I see is I
would love to know how often aday they think about it that's a
good question.
Because I think most women don'tgo an hour without thinking
about it.
So if you think in 24 hours,okay, well, they're sleeping for
(25:19):
some of those, so 12 hours.
If we say they're up for 12hours, they're thinking about it
at least 12 times, and for somepeople it's way more than that.
I don't think men are asplagued with those thoughts as
women are that's reallyinteresting and I think there
are some who are.
(25:41):
I think you're probably rightsure some have had and have had
direct trauma in that area, like, of course, yeah, I, I think
you're right.
Brad Aldrich (25:49):
There are many who aren't that they're mainly
thinking about it when they findthemselves going to the food
that they shouldn't have or theyfeel like they shouldn't have,
and that's when they're thinkingabout it, or are they putting
on their clothes Like does that?
Kate Aldrich (26:03):
Sometimes, Because I'm sitting here thinking so
women are thinking about it whenthey go to the bathroom, when
they get in the shower, whenthey put on their clothes, when
they take off their clothes,when they're eating breakfast,
lunch or dinner or any snack,when they feel their clothes on
(26:23):
them because they feel funny orthey feel like.
Brad Aldrich (26:25):
I agree with you and I think you're right.
I think there is some places Iwill argue.
There's a lot of men who havethat too Like it's not
necessarily gender specific.
Kate Aldrich (26:35):
I don't want to.
Well, okay, I'm going to arguea little bit with that.
Make everybody happy.
I don't want men who arestruggling to that degree to
feel like I'm invalidating that.
I believe there are men outthere and I believe it is just
as plaguing and hard and grief.
(26:55):
The challenge is, as you said,women don't have value unless
they look like correct.
And I will tell you, I'veworked with women who at least
meet the criteria of thatathlete or that star and it
doesn't matter in their head.
And it does not matter.
Brad Aldrich (27:15):
Yeah.
Kate Aldrich (27:15):
And so like my argument is because of the
greater trauma of just beingborn in the United States as a
woman.
Brad Aldrich (27:24):
Yes.
Kate Aldrich (27:25):
Going through middle school as a woman and I
know it's brutal for guys too,but like and now high school,
like I just think it's in theunited states, it is brutal and
I don't think I've met any womanwho doesn't have a huge
(27:45):
struggle with it.
Now, that can't just be that.
Brad Aldrich (27:48):
I'm meeting women who need coaching and they know
right, because it's across theboard.
I think it's there.
Kate Aldrich (27:54):
Correct, and so I do think there is statistically
more women struggling in ahourly, half-hourly, 10-minute
way.
That is plaguing.
Brad Aldrich (28:06):
Yeah, and then.
Kate Aldrich (28:08):
And one more thing .
And then, if you add, it's partof their trauma story, it's
just almost, almost they wear it.
Brad Aldrich (28:15):
Yeah, and I think that's the part that most people
don't do.
Don't do that work.
If going they stick with theshame of I'm overweight or I'm
not doing enough or I'm notexercising enough or I'm not
eating well.
Or I'm not exercising enough orI'm not eating well and they
just stay there and they don'tconnect it to this imitation,
(28:36):
self-care of why it's here,right, and that's part of what
we're talking about.
Is it's there, that overeating,that undereating, that
obsession of it?
Is there for a care purpose?
Kate Aldrich (28:52):
True, and we're getting a little off on one
topic here, but you and I havealso learned so much if there's
direct trauma in that area andor, depending on your life stage
, cause guys, I'm 47 andperimenopause has been well, not
welcome, let's just put it thatway.
Um, and this, you know how, howour home is right now, how
(29:17):
we're living, is not helping,and you can attest that, yes,
coping, food coping has beensomething in my past, for sure,
but I'm really try to be verybalanced about my food, sure,
and that I work really hard, andperimenopause is still saying
nah, like.
And so, also, if you've hadtrauma in this area, we have to
(29:41):
consider cortisol levels, howthey've been impacted, and I
work with a lot of women who arelike it does not matter what I
do, I can't make the weight goaway anymore, right, especially
if you're done with youradolescent years, cause that's,
and even your twenties, that'sjust a very different metabolism
way.
Correct and and many of thesewomen have lost tons of weight,
(30:05):
gained it back Like they've donethat as well the diet culture
is its own trauma, but my, mypoint is I just want to be
cautious.
You just said be looking at,which I do think there's
something to learn, butsometimes women are to a point
where they are eating and thereare hormonal and chemical
(30:37):
impacts of the years of trauma.
Oh, yeah, absolutely, and soyou're not making it up that you
are trying to do everythingright and it still doesn't seem
to be making a difference inthat area.
Brad Aldrich (30:49):
Right, and I think the challenge in just in what
we're talking about and we'regoing to have a part two of this
where we talk more about-Because we just keep talking.
And it's really good, importantthings, because this stuff does
impact our relationships and wedon't talk about this enough.
How we feel about our bodiesimpacts every part of a marriage
(31:15):
relationship.
It comes into, obviously, itcomes into the bedroom, but it
impacts our emotional intimacy.
It impacts our communication,because I think there's times
that we feel like we can't talkabout this stuff with our spouse
and so then it becomes abarrier.
Kate Aldrich (31:36):
You and I talk about it all the time.
Brad Aldrich (31:37):
We do, but I don't think most couples end up
talking about this stuff becausethey don't know how to talk
about it.
Kate Aldrich (31:43):
It's hard because in America it involves then
shame.
It involves like you don't havevalue, right?
If that's the message you have,why would you think you have
value, right?
If that's the message you have,why would you think you have
value in the bedroom?
You, if you have, you do not.
I have learned and tried to usepositive words like you're
(32:03):
curvy, you're whatever, youdon't look like the models and
the athletes right, and so Ithink also there's work to be
done between a couple of likehow do we love each other right
where they are?
Because not doing that is justgoing to cause more trauma.
Brad Aldrich (32:24):
And this goes on both sides, because what happens
when you know somebody istalking about this and the other
person wants to help?
Well, what is actual help?
Kate Aldrich (32:38):
I was just going to say you saying help makes me
feel like it's cringy right.
What are we talking about?
Brad Aldrich (32:44):
Does that mean they are willing to go to the
gym with you, and is thathelpful?
Is that mean they'recontrolling your food for you?
Is that helpful, like there'sso many places where we try to
help and it's unhelpful becauseit's not actually hitting into
the emotional sides of this.
Kate Aldrich (33:01):
Right right.
Brad Aldrich (33:03):
So I think this is such a huge topic, but I think
why we're talking about it isbecause it really does impact
our ability to connect to eachother, to take care of each
other, to have these deeperemotional connections.
Let alone this obviously, youknow eating part impacts sexual
(33:26):
relationships and you know ourbody image, all those kinds of
things, and that's just one ofthese imitation self-cares.
Kate Aldrich (33:34):
It does, but I would like to push that it
shouldn't Sure Right.
I mean, do you agree or youdisagree?
Brad Aldrich (33:40):
I totally agree.
I think it's oh, I'm going toget myself in trouble for this.
I think it more impacts our ownthoughts about our sexuality
and our desirability than itdoes the relational ones okay I,
I hear and I okay, I'm gonnaflip sides and this I hear so
(34:04):
many guys saying I love the waymy wife looks, but my wife
doesn't like the way she looks,so she won't.
X, y, z in sexual intimacy.
Kate Aldrich (34:18):
She won't get naked in front of me.
She won't get naked in front ofme or she won't have sex
without the lights off orwhatever the restriction is.
Brad Aldrich (34:27):
But that's not.
I'm not going to say it's nevercoming from the guys it does.
Kate Aldrich (34:34):
I've heard that too.
Yeah, we've heard those horrorstories, but so many times it is
coming not from the guys.
Brad Aldrich (34:39):
In fact, the guys are like I would love that, but
it's coming from their owninsecurity.
As then being this restriction.
Kate Aldrich (34:49):
True, but I do think a husband can do a lot.
It's not your job to heal thosewounds in her, but you're
either speaking to the woundsthat are already there or your
heart and your words can besoothing and kind to those
things.
So like and same with husbands.
(35:11):
Like, I'm not saying this is aone-way street, but you know it
is a united states lie that weonly desire our spouse when they
look a certain way.
Yeah, and that is not the heartof jesus.
About sexuality, do do peopleneed to worry about their health
(35:33):
?
Yeah, but even the church hasused that to shame people.
This is just going to be a longlong.
But I think it's just important.
Obviously, we're going to needto do more podcasts on different
imitation coping strategies orimitation self-care.
What you know, you said beaware.
(35:56):
So if not, if when food is acoping strategy for you, what
can we learn from it withoutbeing shamed Like how can we
figure some of that out?
Because I think if we'retalking.
If we got off so much on foodtoday, like what does that?
Brad Aldrich (36:20):
look like, and I think food is one of the most
elusive ones to try and figureout.
It is, but I think it has toand this is why I love the work
that you're doing with women.
I'm so encouraged by hearingwhen you're helping them get
into stories around food of howfood was used or control of food
was used or how harm came intotheir food and their body image.
(36:43):
I think that is essential.
So, we have to get back to.
Why is this self-care?
Even like why is exerciseself-care, even like why is
exercise self-care?
Because it is.
Exercise is great self-care.
It is so healthy for our bodies, right Like?
There are many reasons, if youknow, endorphins and all this
(37:05):
kind of stuff that is talksabout how important it is to
move our bodies.
Kate Aldrich (37:10):
There you go.
That's a different term thanexercise, moving your body Right
.
You and I keep saying we'rebuilding up our wood, pile out
there, because this is how we doit.
I much more enjoy that thananything else.
Like it's moving my body in away that I do feel strong, and
it's fun.
Brad Aldrich (37:28):
Right so, and I agree.
But exercise as self-care isself-care, but it also can be
very imitation self-care becausewe beat ourselves up for it.
We have to do a certain amount,we have to meet a certain goal
and instead of it actually beingcaring, it is playing out a
(37:50):
story of harm a lot of times,and I think that's the thing
with many of these imitations isthey are both care in some form
, but also they're missingsomething deeper.
Kate Aldrich (38:04):
So this is that's a whole nother ballgame.
Brad Aldrich (38:07):
This is a good place to kind of pause.
We're going to keep talkingabout this and we're going to
have a part two where we diveinto some of the other imitation
self-cares and talk throughthis, and I can see a day where
we have a whole podcast moreabout food and marriage and how
body image and marriage and allof those kind of things are
(38:29):
topics that we can talk abouttoo.
Kate's doing a ton of work withwomen on exactly that issue.
Kate Aldrich (38:37):
So it's honestly, though, it's one of the, it's
one of the most grievous parts.
I don't know.
Is that a word?
Is that how you say it?
Brad Aldrich (38:46):
Grievous.
Kate Aldrich (38:47):
Grievous.
I'm known in my household formispronouncing things and then
sticking with it, so it grievesme because it's so deep.
It's so deep for American womenand I just want people to have
(39:07):
compassion towards themselvesand towards others and within
their marriage, and men too forthem.
I'm not saying that it's not abig deal, as you've said, but it
is huge and you feel it as soonas you're a woman being born.
I mean no offense, but likepeople shall remain nameless.
(39:29):
But how many times do we say tolike babies in general wow,
he's huge.
Brad Aldrich (39:36):
She's huge.
Look at that chubby baby.
Kate Aldrich (39:39):
There were family members that constantly did that
to our kids and I was likeyou're all in the words, already
body shaming them.
In the words of Rebecca fromTed Lasso yes, we love that show
.
She said way to go.
Mom, you just fat shamed a babyLike it is.
We're already decidingsomething about them based on
(40:00):
their size, and it's like youcan't come up with anything else
.
Wow, what a beautiful smile.
What a oh, my word, he or she'sadorable.
Brad Aldrich (40:10):
You're just going to comment on their size and
it's like well, I'm gonna, I'mgonna take this stop spot to say
obviously you can tell this isa passion for my wife, because
she's good at it I'm like oh,I'm guessing there are some of
you who are listening to this.
Right, I've needed this helpwith body stuff that you know is
(40:37):
well beyond.
I just need to lose weight andyou feel stuck in that and you
don't know why.
I would encourage you to thinkabout coming and talking to Kate
, because she is so good at thisstuff, and being compassionate
and loving and not shaming butsaying we need to figure out how
(40:57):
do we understand our storiesaround food.
So she's doing really amazinghard work with that.
So I'm just going to plugbecause I think she's awesome.
Kate Aldrich (41:06):
Very kind of you.
Should we argue about that?
Brad Aldrich (41:08):
We're going to continue this conversation
Moving on.
And, yeah, moving on, we'regoing to continue this
conversation on imitationself-care because I think this
is such an important thing thatis hitting every marriage.
Because there are things thatwe are going to on a regular
basis.
That is pulling us away fromour oneness with our spouse.
(41:31):
So I think, that's why we keeptalking about this.
Kate Aldrich (41:35):
Yep.
Brad Aldrich (41:36):
Guys, until next time I'm Brad Aldrich.
Kate Aldrich (41:39):
And I'm Kate Aldrich.
Be kind and take care of eachother.
Brad Aldrich (41:44):
Still Becoming One is a production of Aldrich
Ministries.
For more information about Bradand Kate's coaching ministry
courses and speakingopportunities, you can find us
at aldrichministriescom Forpodcast show notes and links to
resources in all of our socialmedia.
Be sure to visit us atstillbecomingonecom and don't
(42:07):
forget to like this episodewherever you get your podcasts.
And be sure to follow us tocontinue your journey on Still
Becoming One.
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast.
We are Brad and Kate.
Kate Aldrich (00:10):
In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've
survived both dark times andexperienced restoration.
Brad Aldrich (00:15):
Now as a licensed marriage counselor and
relationship coaches.
We help couples to regain hopeand joy.
Kate Aldrich (00:23):
We invite you to journey with us, as we are still
becoming one.
Brad Aldrich (00:27):
Let's start the conversation.
Hello everyone, Welcome back toStill Becoming One.
Kate Aldrich (00:34):
Yes, welcome back.
Brad Aldrich (00:36):
We are so glad to be here and keeping on this
journey of what does it mean tobecome closer together in our
relationships.
Kate Aldrich (00:49):
Yep.
Brad Aldrich (00:50):
So all right, before we dive into this big old
topic, what's been going onwith us?
Kate Aldrich (00:55):
Oh man, I don't even know.
Oh, with you and me.
Yeah, oh, this is our check-in,yeah.
People told you this week thatthey like to hear it when we
argue on air we've actually, andI told that that person like
we've that's not the first timewe've heard that people so they
like to see us flesh out things.
I'm not always certain I likethat, but not that I'm
(01:20):
embarrassed by it or I don'tmind anyone hearing it or seeing
it.
I think the thing for me iswhen we go so far down a road,
then I'm not in a place to wantto podcast the way that I like
to podcast we have only donethat once.
Brad Aldrich (01:36):
Disclosure right like what, where we've then said
like we can't we have only hadone episode that went in the
trash because we did not processit well.
Kate Aldrich (01:50):
And we ended up waiting and redoing it.
Brad Aldrich (01:53):
We actually redid the episode and had the
conversation and still disagreedand talked about it, but we did
it better.
Kate Aldrich (02:00):
We were both, I wouldn't say it's better or
worse.
We were both too activated,correct, and we've only had one
where we were both.
I wouldn't say it's better orworse.
We were both too activated,correct, and we've only had one
where we were recording.
Brad Aldrich (02:09):
Let's be clear, um sometimes before we hit record
right we've.
Kate Aldrich (02:15):
We've had a handful of times where it's
happened, where we're talkingabout the subject before we go
on online on air and then wenever make it to on air.
So there is that yes, happeneda couple times, I guess so when
you asked how we're doing, areyou suggesting that I'm gonna
start a fight?
Brad Aldrich (02:33):
no, no, not at all , I think I think this stuff is
is really good.
No, I'm just meaning it.
You know we're sunny it's sunnyand nice and yeah.
Kate Aldrich (02:43):
It's been a busy week and I'm looking forward.
We're podcasting, not on ournormal day, so today's date
night, so I'm looking forward tothat because we you know, in
our home it's just Mondaythrough Friday is long and a lot
, and we get to Friday night andit feels like an exhale.
Brad Aldrich (03:03):
Yeah absolutely, and you know we haven't talked
about date night stuff on herefor a long time.
Kate Aldrich (03:09):
The controversial topic of date night.
Brad Aldrich (03:12):
Exactly, it is right, but we have made this a
priority in our marriage for atleast the last 10 years probably
a little more than that thatwe've tried to keep a date night
every week.
Kate Aldrich (03:26):
Weekly, unless my memory serves me wrong.
So we might have an argumentabout this.
We started during COVID becausewe realized how stressed we
were.
We were doing regular datenights before that, but we
weren't like it wasn't a day ofthe week every week because the
kids were younger, believe it ornot, during COVID.
(03:48):
Everyone was home during COVIDand so it did.
It did look different.
We definitely um prioritizedour time and our three older
were so used to that, ouryoungest one coming in.
That's been a hard adjustmentfor her, but it was actually
during covid.
We were both like, okay, we'regonna go insane, we can't go out
(04:09):
.
And so that's when we started.
We made that door hanger thatsaid we love you, but go away,
we're on date night and we wouldjust sit in our room every
friday night because we couldn'tgo anywhere.
Um the times when the weatherwas fine, we would sit out on
our back patio but and just sitchat watch a movie.
Brad Aldrich (04:27):
We didn't have a lot of options, as you all know
but I think that actually sayssomething really good about date
night, like because I thinkmany people don't do it because
it's like, oh my gosh, I have toget a babysitter, oh my
goodness I, we don't have moneyto go out, like all those kind
of things.
We for us night is it is timefor just the two of us.
(04:48):
It is time for us to bespending together.
It doesn't mean that we'regoing out.
It doesn't mean that we'redoing anything other than
spending time together.
Yes, sometimes we'll go out,sometimes we'll go get coffee,
sometimes we'll go to therestaurant, but a lot of times
we're spending time just the twoof us somewhere you know, by
ourselves, I would actually saythat was our norm until after
(05:12):
COVID, honestly.
Kate Aldrich (05:15):
So our kids are older, our resources are
different, like it.
That us doing more out wasactually a result of a lot of
things, but those being the maintwo.
And so we usually did datenights in.
Maybe once every couple ofmonths we'd go out honestly, or
sometimes we get takeout andbring it home and whatever.
(05:37):
Yeah, we just it's just reallytime for us and so, anyways, I
feel like I got off on on thatside note.
We're we're doing well.
I think it's been a long week,but I feel like I got off on
that side note.
We're doing well, I think.
It's been a long week, but Ifeel like we feel that every
week.
Brad Aldrich (05:50):
I do.
But you know what and this isone of the reasons to have date
night and we've said this beforeof like there is for me, of
just knowing that that break iscoming, is this place of like.
Okay, it's Thursday night, Ican get there another 24 hours I
can like we're going to havethis break and and enjoy some
(06:11):
downtime together, which I thinkis really important.
Kate Aldrich (06:13):
And I you know we always want to be honoring when
you talk about our kiddos andand not be explicit with what's
happening with them.
But living in a home the waythat we do, there is a trauma
response in you and I.
That is like our capacitybeyond what we do with Aldridge
(06:34):
Ministries, which is soimportant, and taking care of
the girls, we don't have muchcapacity beyond that.
We are in a stage and we'rehopeful that will not always be
that way.
So we don't often do capacitybeyond that.
We are in a stage and we'rehopeful that will not always be
that way.
So we don't often do a lot onweekends and Friday night kind
of starts that, unless our kidshave things, and so we kind of
(06:55):
just like work real hard allweek and then figure out ways to
take care of ourselves wellthroughout the weekend.
Brad Aldrich (07:03):
So, yeah, ways to take care of ourselves well
throughout the weekend.
So yeah, and I think thisactually moves us into this
really important topic that wewere going to be talking about
is this idea of good self-careand imitation self-care.
And we've recognized we've beentalking about this for a while
of there are things that enterevery marriage, every
(07:28):
relationship, that at times endup pulling us away from each
other, and they often are thisidea of imitation, self-care,
things we think we're doing forself-care but often aren't that
healthy.
Kate Aldrich (07:47):
Hmm, yeah, I didn't think about the pulling
us away, but that kind of makessense.
This is a concept that I'vebeen just been rolling around in
my head and I keep saying toBrad we need to figure out some
way to give this words andlanguage, as Brad does, a lot of
journey groups through JayStringer's unwanted material.
(08:07):
You know it's always beeninteresting to me how there is a
part called arousal templatewhere you well, you probably
actually would be able to shareit way better than me.
So what is the concept aroundthat without getting isn't
specifically about unwantedsexual behavior, but what is the
(08:28):
concept of that within thecourse?
Brad Aldrich (08:31):
Okay, so the arousal template in unwanted
sexual behavior context, in JayStringer's work and whatnot, is
defined as the totalconstellation of thoughts,
images, behavior, sounds, sights, fantasies that arouse us
sexually.
But specifically, and I alwayskind of add this, it is this
(08:56):
unwanted arousal template.
Right, because there is goodparts of those.
Right, there's the thoughts,sounds, images of your spouse,
those kind of things that aregood parts of arousal template.
But there tends to be thisunwanted, this negative template
that we end up going to when wedon't necessarily recognize
(09:21):
this.
In fact, this is part of doingthis hard work is we recognize
we're going to it over and overagain and we're looking for this
.
In fact, I was talking with oneof my guys in my group recently
and he said you know, there'stimes that it's like oh, I found
this like pot of gold, thisperfect like thing, and
(09:45):
exploring what that is and whyit's perfect, which they have no
concept of Like.
There's no like.
Oh, I get why this is perfect.
The recognition is that thosethings are developed out of our
trauma.
Kate Aldrich (10:01):
Right.
Brad Aldrich (10:03):
Right.
And so the arousal template isso directly connected to our
trauma stories that we are oftentrying to either repeat trauma
in a way of almost trying to fixit, we're repeating it, we're
trying to bring a positive spinto this traumatic thing that's
(10:24):
happened over and over and overagain.
Kate Aldrich (10:26):
Or to understand it.
Brad Aldrich (10:27):
Or understand it, or we're trying to reverse it,
we're trying to flip the scriptso that maybe I'm not the one
who was powerless, or maybe I'mnot the one who was being
embarrassed, or maybe I'm notright.
Kate Aldrich (10:39):
Wouldn't that be fixing it.
That's what I've always kind ofsaid.
You're either trying to that'swhat I've always kind of said
Like you're either trying tounderstand it better by
repeating it or, as you said, orthat flipping it is actually
fixing it in a way.
I think both can be fixing it.
Brad Aldrich (10:59):
That's true, and I don't want to get too graphic
here, but somebody who's beensexually abused can go to an
arousal template where they arechoosing to get sexually abused.
There's still that choice partto it.
Kate Aldrich (11:14):
Right, right.
Brad Aldrich (11:15):
Like they're choosing it in this way of
fixing it, but they're repeatingthe thing that happened.
And I say this with a littlecaution on air because, look,
I've worked with guys who havehad these arousal templates for
years Right Years and years, andyears and years, and they have
no concept that it is at allconnected to their trauma.
Kate Aldrich (11:40):
Right Until we unwind that together.
Shame so it doesn't, but theyyeah.
So I asked Brad to kind of talkabout that because it's that
concept that I've learned aboutthrough, you know, brad's own
journey and working with menthrough the journey course.
That it kind of was rattlingaround in my brain and I was
(12:01):
like, but wait a second.
We all kind of do this, but notnecessarily with the arousal
template like peace, but oftenwe choose coping strategies in
our childhood and whatnot thatare an imitation.
Brad Aldrich (12:18):
Yeah Of real self-care.
Kate Aldrich (12:20):
Of real self-care.
Right, because the things thatevery one of us chooses are care
, and that's a really hardconcept for a lot of people
because they're like, oh, butmine is sinful and mine is wrong
and I don't like that, I do itand all those things may be true
, but it's still a form of careand if we look at your childhood
without it, as Dan Allendersays, I'm not sure.
Brad Aldrich (12:43):
We would have survived right or we would have
had definitely more consequences.
I mean, that's something I'vehad to wrestle with with my
stories is I know there weresome very unhealthier paths my
story could have taken me down.
So it like the unhealthy thingsare self-care but they don't
(13:05):
actually fill us the way that wewant them to.
Kate Aldrich (13:08):
Right, and I'll use my own story.
Thinking about that, I was like, oh, but so I think I've talked
about pieces of this, but mymain form of coping as mainly a
teenager I don't remember asmuch being younger, but was to
listen to music in my room,cause you we've shared before
(13:29):
that my dad was an alcoholic andso that brought a lot of um,
just kind of like predictableunpredictability in my home.
Like every night, dad was goingto drink too much.
It's just when did he start?
What drink were we on?
All those kinds of things, andI don't exactly know when, but I
(13:50):
learned to learn when to getout and just go up to my room.
And I had my Sony Walkman, asyou all know, which was my most
wonderful possession in my wholelife.
It was the sport model, it wasyellow, it went both forward and
backwards, which back then wasa big deal right, because most
of them just fast forwarded,they didn't rewind, didn't?
Brad Aldrich (14:10):
rewind.
Kate Aldrich (14:10):
So I thought it was, and it also for the radio
stations, like I could press one, two, three, four.
Brad Aldrich (14:16):
I know it had presets.
Kate Aldrich (14:18):
Yes, okay, anyways , moving right along.
So I would go up to my room andlisten to music non-stop, but
the other thing that I did is Iwould create a world in my head
where, once I actually thoughtabout it, I was for me.
I think it would be more offixing my world, like I would
(14:41):
often imagine being in a familywhere everything was just roses
and puppy dogs.
Right Like I, and I also knewthat was unrealistic, Like no
family I'd ever met lived likethat, but it was.
My parents were attentive, theywere kind.
(15:02):
There wasn't you know theirbrokenness and that is how I
survived my childhood right andI'm like.
But I think many of us arechoosing coping strategies that
are trying to fix it or explainit or understand it.
It is your brain's way of saying.
This is too much and I, as thisage, I don't know what to do
(15:26):
with it, but I have to copesomehow yeah, exactly, so we're
going to talk about some ofthese other things.
Brad Aldrich (15:36):
We've kind of brainstormed some ideas of
imitation self-care things thatwe do, that I think we as adults
still do and fall into Beforewe get to even kind of just
talking about what some of themare.
How do you think theseimitation self-care no matter
(15:57):
what they are, how do you thinkthey impact our marriages?
Kate Aldrich (16:03):
Well, you can speak from yours and I can speak
from mine.
It was a coping strategy that Iwas using right to deal with
harm, trauma and, I would say,the things in life I couldn't
make sense of and I couldn'timpact.
So for many years of thebeginning of our marriage I
(16:24):
don't see the music so much.
That's become something.
I've kind of like gone back toum, using music in a positive
way and being aware of when it'stoo much, but the I would go
into my head anytime things inour marriage weren't what I hope
they would be.
Brad Aldrich (16:42):
Yeah, Right yeah.
Kate Aldrich (16:43):
And I would recreate it Honestly.
You were almost always in thosemoments, those and and I I
hesitate to call them fantasies,because I don't think that's
what it is, but you were thereand I was making it better yeah,
right, right, and I couldmental escape place like eponine
(17:05):
in lame is.
I could live in my head in aplace where my body could rest,
and it was all good oh, yeah,yeah, and I'm gonna peel the
layer of betrayal off of mycoping mechanism, right, just
(17:26):
right, right, because that's adifferent layer well, and we're
not.
That's not what it started.
Like you right, when youstarted with that, there was no
one in your life that that was.
Brad Aldrich (17:35):
Correct.
Well, some people might arguethat, but you know what I'm
saying.
But I think if I peel thatlayer off and I just look at the
escapism, I look at the arousaltemplate stuff, really I think
one of the things I can see isthere were a whole lot of
stresses, difficult things thatI was dealing with that I
(17:57):
thought I could not bring to you, and so I would take them into
that fantasy world and I wouldescape with them and feeling,
feeling unaffected as a husbandjust amplified that place of
(18:19):
wanting to escape kind of thing.
So I'm kind of saying one ofthe places I think this happens
is this pulling away of thingsthat we're dealing with.
That until I could come to youand go I'm really struggling
with this thing that's happenedat work, or I'm really
struggling with how I'mparenting, or something like
(18:42):
that until we could talk aboutthose things, I think I
constantly felt very inadequateand then that's where some of
the escape stuff comes in.
Kate Aldrich (18:55):
Yeah, I mean inadequacy is not a huge.
I mean I guess you could boilit down.
The problem is with everybody'sthemes.
We could probably boil them.
Brad Aldrich (19:02):
Oh, they're all different.
Kate Aldrich (19:03):
They're all different, but you could
probably find the common thread.
But inadequacy wasn'tnecessarily where I went.
But yes, like when we gotmarried, then you certainly we
pushed into those things for meand it amplified them.
I didn't know what they were, Icouldn't give them words, I
(19:25):
only knew how to take care ofthem.
Brad Aldrich (19:26):
Yeah.
So let's talk a little bitabout, like, some ideas, because
some people are like well, okay, I don't do the fantasy thing,
I didn't do porn thing, it's notfantasy.
Kate Aldrich (19:34):
Don't do the fantasy thing I didn't do, it's
not fantasy, don't call itfantasy I didn't do the mental
escape because I really do thinkin this we need to use positive
words I agree and I think thereis a place with all of these.
Brad Aldrich (19:50):
We have to honor what it was correct in order to
figure out.
How do we do the healthy Honor,the imitation of the attempt?
Kate Aldrich (20:00):
for self-care Right, just like arousal
template.
There's nothing one way or theother about that Right.
Brad Aldrich (20:09):
So I think there is let's talk.
There are a couple of differentthemes.
Like one of them that we talkedabout that's totally different
is things around food.
Kate Aldrich (20:19):
Yeah.
Brad Aldrich (20:20):
So things like binge eating or comfort food
when we're feeling stressed orsad.
Kate Aldrich (20:28):
I think every human on the planet uses food.
And some people are going tosay, no, I don't, I control mine
.
Well, yeah, if you're stillusing food.
Brad Aldrich (20:35):
And some people are going to say no, I don't, I
can I control mine?
Well, yeah, you're still usingfood like that.
Kate Aldrich (20:38):
The fact that it's so controlled for you might
appear to be the healthier ofthe two lifestyles, but it's
still using food in a way tohelp you cope.
So I think everyone has tograpple with this one.
Brad Aldrich (20:57):
And essentially what we're talking about is
having your feelings, youremotions motivate consuming food
or not consuming food in a waythat becomes unhealthy.
Kate Aldrich (21:14):
Yeah, yeah Well, and the challenge with food that
I say to everyone is it's alsonot unhealthy.
At times, like people say.
Coping with food is bad.
The Lord gave us food, yeahRight, and he didn't just make
it about a biological.
You need this to live, to growwhen you're younger.
(21:35):
He actually has other plans forfood.
This is what I tell everybody.
We know food is in heaven.
Why would it be in heaven?
Our bodies are not going toneed it because the Lord created
it for other things, and foodis where we have community.
Food is where we haveconnection, like there are all
(21:57):
kinds of things that the Lordcreated food for.
That, yes, get very mixed up,but it doesn't always mean, if
you go to food in a way that isintentional, that it's a bad
coping strategy, correct, it'sjust.
(22:18):
How do I put boundaries aroundthat so that it doesn't become
control one way or the other, orloss of control?
Brad Aldrich (22:21):
And I think you've said and you've done a lot of
work on recognizing how ourstories, our traumas from the
past have impacted food in ourlives.
Kate Aldrich (22:38):
Yeah, I mean because I work with mainly women
, so body image has never notcome up with any woman I've
worked with and that is directlycorrelated to food.
Brad Aldrich (22:50):
Sure.
Kate Aldrich (22:50):
Right how your body carries and looks and all
the things.
Right, how your body carriesand looks and all the things.
So, um, yeah, I've had to talkto every person about that.
I think there is the largertrauma of growing up in the
United States If that is whereyou grew up.
Other countries, I do think itis different for some Um, but
(23:11):
there is a pressure on a womanjust being born a woman girl,
and so, yeah, we have to talkabout that.
I do think some men also havethat.
Brad Aldrich (23:23):
Oh my gosh, I think many, many men have that
right, like I think.
Kate Aldrich (23:28):
But it doesn't.
Can I say this and you sharewith me?
It doesn't seem to plague theirbrain in the same way.
Brad Aldrich (23:35):
It tends to women I, so here's the difference okay
, do tell I think like we canlook at lots of different
sources and see men who areoverweight, who still have value
okay, and unfortunately in oursociety it is very difficult,
(23:59):
not impossible.
Obviously they all have value.
I don't want to say this, butit seems as if the female
celebrities, the female athletes, the female whatever, are not
that right.
They're thin, they're that whenyou can look at a 350-pound
(24:20):
football player and go, oh yeah,he's got lots of value right.
So there's not this directcorrelation between male size
and popularity, value how theyfelt valued about themselves.
Kate Aldrich (24:35):
I'm more meaning like how society values them
right, okay, and that's a reallygood point, but I also think
there's how do they feel?
Because I've noticed 100,that's where so that's where
it's equal.
Brad Aldrich (24:49):
Really, I think so because I know I talked to lots
of men who feel unhealthy abouttheir body.
They don't like the way theirbody looks.
Kate Aldrich (24:59):
The difference that I think that I see is I
would love to know how often aday they think about it that's a
good question.
Because I think most women don'tgo an hour without thinking
about it.
So if you think in 24 hours,okay, well, they're sleeping for
(25:19):
some of those, so 12 hours.
If we say they're up for 12hours, they're thinking about it
at least 12 times, and for somepeople it's way more than that.
I don't think men are asplagued with those thoughts as
women are that's reallyinteresting and I think there
are some who are.
(25:41):
I think you're probably rightsure some have had and have had
direct trauma in that area, like, of course, yeah, I, I think
you're right.
Brad Aldrich (25:49):
There are many who aren't that they're mainly
thinking about it when they findthemselves going to the food
that they shouldn't have or theyfeel like they shouldn't have,
and that's when they're thinkingabout it, or are they putting
on their clothes Like does that?
Kate Aldrich (26:03):
Sometimes, Because I'm sitting here thinking so
women are thinking about it whenthey go to the bathroom, when
they get in the shower, whenthey put on their clothes, when
they take off their clothes,when they're eating breakfast,
lunch or dinner or any snack,when they feel their clothes on
(26:23):
them because they feel funny orthey feel like.
Brad Aldrich (26:25):
I agree with you and I think you're right.
I think there is some places Iwill argue.
There's a lot of men who havethat too Like it's not
necessarily gender specific.
Kate Aldrich (26:35):
I don't want to.
Well, okay, I'm going to arguea little bit with that.
Make everybody happy.
I don't want men who arestruggling to that degree to
feel like I'm invalidating that.
I believe there are men outthere and I believe it is just
as plaguing and hard and grief.
(26:55):
The challenge is, as you said,women don't have value unless
they look like correct.
And I will tell you, I'veworked with women who at least
meet the criteria of thatathlete or that star and it
doesn't matter in their head.
And it does not matter.
Brad Aldrich (27:15):
Yeah.
Kate Aldrich (27:15):
And so like my argument is because of the
greater trauma of just beingborn in the United States as a
woman.
Brad Aldrich (27:24):
Yes.
Kate Aldrich (27:25):
Going through middle school as a woman and I
know it's brutal for guys too,but like and now high school,
like I just think it's in theunited states, it is brutal and
I don't think I've met any womanwho doesn't have a huge
(27:45):
struggle with it.
Now, that can't just be that.
Brad Aldrich (27:48):
I'm meeting women who need coaching and they know
right, because it's across theboard.
I think it's there.
Kate Aldrich (27:54):
Correct, and so I do think there is statistically
more women struggling in ahourly, half-hourly, 10-minute
way.
That is plaguing.
Brad Aldrich (28:06):
Yeah, and then.
Kate Aldrich (28:08):
And one more thing .
And then, if you add, it's partof their trauma story, it's
just almost, almost they wear it.
Brad Aldrich (28:15):
Yeah, and I think that's the part that most people
don't do.
Don't do that work.
If going they stick with theshame of I'm overweight or I'm
not doing enough or I'm notexercising enough or I'm not
eating well.
Or I'm not exercising enough orI'm not eating well and they
just stay there and they don'tconnect it to this imitation,
(28:36):
self-care of why it's here,right, and that's part of what
we're talking about.
Is it's there, that overeating,that undereating, that
obsession of it?
Is there for a care purpose?
Kate Aldrich (28:52):
True, and we're getting a little off on one
topic here, but you and I havealso learned so much if there's
direct trauma in that area andor, depending on your life stage
, cause guys, I'm 47 andperimenopause has been well, not
welcome, let's just put it thatway.
Um, and this, you know how, howour home is right now, how
(29:17):
we're living, is not helping,and you can attest that, yes,
coping, food coping has beensomething in my past, for sure,
but I'm really try to be verybalanced about my food, sure,
and that I work really hard, andperimenopause is still saying
nah, like.
And so, also, if you've hadtrauma in this area, we have to
(29:41):
consider cortisol levels, howthey've been impacted, and I
work with a lot of women who arelike it does not matter what I
do, I can't make the weight goaway anymore, right, especially
if you're done with youradolescent years, cause that's,
and even your twenties, that'sjust a very different metabolism
way.
Correct and and many of thesewomen have lost tons of weight,
(30:05):
gained it back Like they've donethat as well the diet culture
is its own trauma, but my, mypoint is I just want to be
cautious.
You just said be looking at,which I do think there's
something to learn, butsometimes women are to a point
where they are eating and thereare hormonal and chemical
(30:37):
impacts of the years of trauma.
Oh, yeah, absolutely, and soyou're not making it up that you
are trying to do everythingright and it still doesn't seem
to be making a difference inthat area.
Brad Aldrich (30:49):
Right, and I think the challenge in just in what
we're talking about and we'regoing to have a part two of this
where we talk more about-Because we just keep talking.
And it's really good, importantthings, because this stuff does
impact our relationships and wedon't talk about this enough.
How we feel about our bodiesimpacts every part of a marriage
(31:15):
relationship.
It comes into, obviously, itcomes into the bedroom, but it
impacts our emotional intimacy.
It impacts our communication,because I think there's times
that we feel like we can't talkabout this stuff with our spouse
and so then it becomes abarrier.
Kate Aldrich (31:36):
You and I talk about it all the time.
Brad Aldrich (31:37):
We do, but I don't think most couples end up
talking about this stuff becausethey don't know how to talk
about it.
Kate Aldrich (31:43):
It's hard because in America it involves then
shame.
It involves like you don't havevalue, right?
If that's the message you have,why would you think you have
value, right?
If that's the message you have,why would you think you have
value in the bedroom?
You, if you have, you do not.
I have learned and tried to usepositive words like you're
(32:03):
curvy, you're whatever, youdon't look like the models and
the athletes right, and so Ithink also there's work to be
done between a couple of likehow do we love each other right
where they are?
Because not doing that is justgoing to cause more trauma.
Brad Aldrich (32:24):
And this goes on both sides, because what happens
when you know somebody istalking about this and the other
person wants to help?
Well, what is actual help?
Kate Aldrich (32:38):
I was just going to say you saying help makes me
feel like it's cringy right.
What are we talking about?
Brad Aldrich (32:44):
Does that mean they are willing to go to the
gym with you, and is thathelpful?
Is that mean they'recontrolling your food for you?
Is that helpful, like there'sso many places where we try to
help and it's unhelpful becauseit's not actually hitting into
the emotional sides of this.
Kate Aldrich (33:01):
Right right.
Brad Aldrich (33:03):
So I think this is such a huge topic, but I think
why we're talking about it isbecause it really does impact
our ability to connect to eachother, to take care of each
other, to have these deeperemotional connections.
Let alone this obviously, youknow eating part impacts sexual
(33:26):
relationships and you know ourbody image, all those kinds of
things, and that's just one ofthese imitation self-cares.
Kate Aldrich (33:34):
It does, but I would like to push that it
shouldn't Sure Right.
I mean, do you agree or youdisagree?
Brad Aldrich (33:40):
I totally agree.
I think it's oh, I'm going toget myself in trouble for this.
I think it more impacts our ownthoughts about our sexuality
and our desirability than itdoes the relational ones okay I,
I hear and I okay, I'm gonnaflip sides and this I hear so
(34:04):
many guys saying I love the waymy wife looks, but my wife
doesn't like the way she looks,so she won't.
X, y, z in sexual intimacy.
Kate Aldrich (34:18):
She won't get naked in front of me.
She won't get naked in front ofme or she won't have sex
without the lights off orwhatever the restriction is.
Brad Aldrich (34:27):
But that's not.
I'm not going to say it's nevercoming from the guys it does.
Kate Aldrich (34:34):
I've heard that too.
Yeah, we've heard those horrorstories, but so many times it is
coming not from the guys.
Brad Aldrich (34:39):
In fact, the guys are like I would love that, but
it's coming from their owninsecurity.
As then being this restriction.
Kate Aldrich (34:49):
True, but I do think a husband can do a lot.
It's not your job to heal thosewounds in her, but you're
either speaking to the woundsthat are already there or your
heart and your words can besoothing and kind to those
things.
So like and same with husbands.
(35:11):
Like, I'm not saying this is aone-way street, but you know it
is a united states lie that weonly desire our spouse when they
look a certain way.
Yeah, and that is not the heartof jesus.
About sexuality, do do peopleneed to worry about their health
(35:33):
?
Yeah, but even the church hasused that to shame people.
This is just going to be a longlong.
But I think it's just important.
Obviously, we're going to needto do more podcasts on different
imitation coping strategies orimitation self-care.
What you know, you said beaware.
(35:56):
So if not, if when food is acoping strategy for you, what
can we learn from it withoutbeing shamed Like how can we
figure some of that out?
Because I think if we'retalking.
If we got off so much on foodtoday, like what does that?
Brad Aldrich (36:20):
look like, and I think food is one of the most
elusive ones to try and figureout.
It is, but I think it has toand this is why I love the work
that you're doing with women.
I'm so encouraged by hearingwhen you're helping them get
into stories around food of howfood was used or control of food
was used or how harm came intotheir food and their body image.
(36:43):
I think that is essential.
So, we have to get back to.
Why is this self-care?
Even like why is exerciseself-care, even like why is
exercise self-care?
Because it is.
Exercise is great self-care.
It is so healthy for our bodies, right Like?
There are many reasons, if youknow, endorphins and all this
(37:05):
kind of stuff that is talksabout how important it is to
move our bodies.
Kate Aldrich (37:10):
There you go.
That's a different term thanexercise, moving your body Right
.
You and I keep saying we'rebuilding up our wood, pile out
there, because this is how we doit.
I much more enjoy that thananything else.
Like it's moving my body in away that I do feel strong, and
it's fun.
Brad Aldrich (37:28):
Right so, and I agree.
But exercise as self-care isself-care, but it also can be
very imitation self-care becausewe beat ourselves up for it.
We have to do a certain amount,we have to meet a certain goal
and instead of it actually beingcaring, it is playing out a
(37:50):
story of harm a lot of times,and I think that's the thing
with many of these imitations isthey are both care in some form
, but also they're missingsomething deeper.
Kate Aldrich (38:04):
So this is that's a whole nother ballgame.
Brad Aldrich (38:07):
This is a good place to kind of pause.
We're going to keep talkingabout this and we're going to
have a part two where we diveinto some of the other imitation
self-cares and talk throughthis, and I can see a day where
we have a whole podcast moreabout food and marriage and how
body image and marriage and allof those kind of things are
(38:29):
topics that we can talk abouttoo.
Kate's doing a ton of work withwomen on exactly that issue.
Kate Aldrich (38:37):
So it's honestly, though, it's one of the, it's
one of the most grievous parts.
I don't know.
Is that a word?
Is that how you say it?
Brad Aldrich (38:46):
Grievous.
Kate Aldrich (38:47):
Grievous.
I'm known in my household formispronouncing things and then
sticking with it, so it grievesme because it's so deep.
It's so deep for American womenand I just want people to have
(39:07):
compassion towards themselvesand towards others and within
their marriage, and men too forthem.
I'm not saying that it's not abig deal, as you've said, but it
is huge and you feel it as soonas you're a woman being born.
I mean no offense, but likepeople shall remain nameless.
(39:29):
But how many times do we say tolike babies in general wow,
he's huge.
Brad Aldrich (39:36):
She's huge.
Look at that chubby baby.
Kate Aldrich (39:39):
There were family members that constantly did that
to our kids and I was likeyou're all in the words, already
body shaming them.
In the words of Rebecca fromTed Lasso yes, we love that show
.
She said way to go.
Mom, you just fat shamed a babyLike it is.
We're already decidingsomething about them based on
(40:00):
their size, and it's like youcan't come up with anything else
.
Wow, what a beautiful smile.
What a oh, my word, he or she'sadorable.
Brad Aldrich (40:10):
You're just going to comment on their size and
it's like well, I'm gonna, I'mgonna take this stop spot to say
obviously you can tell this isa passion for my wife, because
she's good at it I'm like oh,I'm guessing there are some of
you who are listening to this.
Right, I've needed this helpwith body stuff that you know is
(40:37):
well beyond.
I just need to lose weight andyou feel stuck in that and you
don't know why.
I would encourage you to thinkabout coming and talking to Kate
, because she is so good at thisstuff, and being compassionate
and loving and not shaming butsaying we need to figure out how
(40:57):
do we understand our storiesaround food.
So she's doing really amazinghard work with that.
So I'm just going to plugbecause I think she's awesome.
Kate Aldrich (41:06):
Very kind of you.
Should we argue about that?
Brad Aldrich (41:08):
We're going to continue this conversation
Moving on.
And, yeah, moving on, we'regoing to continue this
conversation on imitationself-care because I think this
is such an important thing thatis hitting every marriage.
Because there are things thatwe are going to on a regular
basis.
That is pulling us away fromour oneness with our spouse.
(41:31):
So I think, that's why we keeptalking about this.
Kate Aldrich (41:35):
Yep.
Brad Aldrich (41:36):
Guys, until next time I'm Brad Aldrich.
Kate Aldrich (41:39):
And I'm Kate Aldrich.
Be kind and take care of eachother.
Brad Aldrich (41:44):
Still Becoming One is a production of Aldrich
Ministries.
For more information about Bradand Kate's coaching ministry
courses and speakingopportunities, you can find us
at aldrichministriescom Forpodcast show notes and links to
resources in all of our socialmedia.
Be sure to visit us atstillbecomingonecom and don't
(42:07):
forget to like this episodewherever you get your podcasts.
And be sure to follow us tocontinue your journey on Still
Becoming One.
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