November 2, 2023 • 51 mins
What happens when a non-stop, hustle-filled lifestyle starts eating into your wellness, relationships, and peace of mind? Brace yourself for an enlightening conversation with our guest, Natalie Mullin, a wellness educator, and coach, who will take us through her journey of finding balance in her life, saving her marriage, and how that has inspired her to help others do the same.
We dive into the unique pressures faced by Black women and the ways societal expectations often lead to burnout and mental health struggles. Natalie emphasizes the importance of creating safe spaces for expression, prioritizing mental health and self-care, and having an accountability partner to ensure we don't overextend ourselves. She also sheds light on the concept of 'wellness days,' and how having them can prevent us from reaching the point of exhaustion.
We examine the role quality relationships and a supportive community play in our lives. We share insights on how to identify and let go of things or relationships that no longer serve us, and muster up the courage to prioritize our needs and desires. We delve into the concept of JASP—Joy, Alignment, Sustainability, and Purpose—a tool Natalie uses to guide her life decisions and find fulfillment. Join us for this heartfelt conversation that encourages collective well-being, open communication, and ultimately, a more balanced life.
About Natalie Mullin:
Natalie Mullin, a Certified Wellness Educator, Speaker, Facilitator, and Coach, empowers multifaceted women to transform their lives through workshops, presentations, and coaching. As the host of "From a Full Cup," a mental wellness podcast, she inspires women to dream big and take action. Drawing from her own challenges during a mental health breakdown, once she got to the other side, Natalie emerged as a thought leader in Disruptive Wellness. By prioritizing her well-being and crafting a strategic life wellness plan, she became living proof that one can align life with their values, goals, and vision. Her unique approach combining neuro-linguistic programming, holistic wellness, and life coaching empowers transformative experiences for clients. Natalie's expertise focuses on helping multifaceted women develop a new relationship with time so they can balance pursuing life goals, wearing multiple hats, and prioritizing their personal well-being by establishing a personal life wellness plan, leading to tangible results and lives of purpose and fulfillment. Natalie firmly believes that with focus, clarity, direction, accountability, and support all women can improve their wellbeing and their lives.
Where to find Natalie:
From a Full Cup Podcast: from-a-full-cup.captivate.fm
Instagram: Instagram.com/nataliemullin/
Website: Nataliemullin.com/
LinkedIn: Linkedin.com/in/natalie-mullin
Show Credits:
Richard Dodds (Host/Producer): @Doddsism
Show Music: @IAmTheDjBlue
Podcast Website: StillTalkingBlack.com
Still Talking Black is a production of Crowned Culture Media LLC. All rights reserved.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Richard Dodds (00:00):
This is Still Talking Black, a show where we
discuss topics affectingblackness from a black point of
view.
I'm your host, richard Dyes,and on today's episode I am
joined by Natalie Mullen.
We talk about how her hustling,bustle lifestyle being triple
booked and staying constantlybusy starts to really affect not
only her wellness mentalwellness but the thing that she
(00:22):
really cared about most.
Sometimes the things that wecare about most don't have
anything to do with the hustlingbustle, and we're moving in a
way that the world tells us tomove and not always trying to
figure out the things thatmatter most to us.
So how do we recenter and findthe things that are really
important to us and facilitategrowth and prosperity in those
(00:44):
areas?
That is some of the things thatwe talk about on today's
episode.
So, without further ado, here'sNatalie.
Natalie Mullin (00:51):
Hi, I'm Natalie Mullen.
I'm a certified wellnesseducator and coach and I love
supporting women who just feelstuck, overwhelmed, stressed,
and they're just trying to findmore balance in their life so
they can spend more time withthemselves, with their loved
ones and those that matter tothem.
Richard Dodds (01:07):
That's awesome you.
You were like so ready for it.
I like it when people are readyand they know exactly who they
are.
I always find it that I'm sorry.
I always find it that whenpeople can describe who they are
and what they do, they have agood understanding of who they
are.
But the ones who don't struggle.
Natalie Mullin (01:24):
Yeah, you're like sorry, cancel this, cancel
this recording.
You can come back next year.
Richard Dodds (01:32):
Practice- Like I'll call you back.
Something came up, yeah.
Natalie Mullin (01:36):
What, mom, what you need me now I gotta go.
Richard Dodds (01:39):
I gotta go.
I thought you put your phone on.
Do not disturb.
What do you mean?
Natalie Mullin (01:42):
Yeah, Actually, I should do that right now.
Richard Dodds (01:46):
That's always a good thing, right, because
people tend to call it the worstmoments, right?
Natalie Mullin (01:50):
Right when you turn the mic on Always.
Richard Dodds (01:53):
So how did you start and how did you start to
embark on your wellness journey?
Natalie Mullin (01:58):
Yeah.
So for me it's okay.
So let's start.
So life was very busy and I wasdoing all the things that I
thought I should be doing.
So I was working full time.
I had a gig on the side.
I was saying yes to everybody.
My calendar was packed frommorning to night.
(02:18):
I'd be like triple scheduled.
I'd be on the phone in ameeting on the way to another
meeting, have a social eventafter.
It was just mayhem, but Iactually thought that this was
good.
I felt like, oh, I'm reallyproductive, I'm really working
hard in life.
This is the message I've alwaysgotten from my parents.
Like, you know, you've got towear a card, you've got to be
better than us and you know youfeel like you have this burden
(02:42):
on your shoulders.
It's your responsibility tocarry it.
So, to be honest, I was prettyproud of myself.
I felt like I was doing all theright things and I wasn't
really paying attention to whatwas happening around me.
And that, all of a sudden, oneday, my husband said like he
wanted a divorce, completely outthe blue, and I was like I'm
sorry.
What word was that?
What did you say?
(03:02):
And, long story short, I hadbeen so busy in my day to day
life so busy, trying to juggleall of these other
responsibilities, that I didn'trealize that my personal life
was being affected until it wasbasically too late.
And this sent me into a hugedepression because for me,
that's all I wanted.
All I wanted was my family.
(03:22):
So then you kind of get to thispoint and you're like well,
what was the point of me workingso hard, chasing money, chasing
success, chasing opportunities,if in the end I'm going to lose
, like what matters most, what Iwas working so hard for in the
in the first place?
And after being in thisdepression for a while, I
remember talking to one of myfriends and she's like well, you
have to snap out of it, likeyou can't just stay in this
(03:43):
negative place for the wholetime.
And I'm like but how, like I,nothing is changing my life.
He doesn't want to work it out.
So what is going to make lifebetter?
And she's like you've got to doit for yourself, like you've
just got to find it withinyourself to pull yourself out.
So I was like okay, I don'tknow what that means, but let me
just try, because sometimes youhave no clue how to move
(04:04):
forward.
But it starts with the decisionto try.
I will say that, and I was likeI'm just going to try.
So I tried to start surroundingmyself with just positive
influences.
I went to therapy.
I started talking to just a fewwise people, because sometimes
you're talking to people andthey're not helping you.
They're just actually adding tothe clutter going on in your
head.
(04:25):
And, long story short, I wasable to, I guess, kind of put
together a roadmap for my ownself of how to get out of there.
I was like I had to find out,figure out self awareness, what
do I even want out of my ownlife?
And this is what began mywellness journey.
So figuring out what do I wantout of life, who do I want to
become?
And then, how do I get there?
What activities do I want thatare going to bring me joy and
(04:48):
deep meaning, what are thevalues that I hold dear to
myself?
And that kind of became mywellness journey and eventually
my whole life transformed andthankfully my marriage was
restored.
But it's within that kind ofsitting by myself and kind of
figuring out what kind ofwellness journey do I want for
myself.
This is what got me into thiswork and I was like I want to
(05:10):
help other women.
I want to help other people whoare kind of going through these
same struggles.
They feel like they're stuck orat their crossroads.
Maybe they've put themselves ona back burner and they just
don't see a way forward.
Now that I've kind of figuredit out for myself, I want to
help do this for other women too.
Richard Dodds (05:27):
That that is like a really amazing story, and
it's just so many times I feellike we're always here that we
got to be busy, busy, busy, busy, busy.
And what I've seen withespecially like a lot of black
people, unfortunately is that wespend so much time grinding
that we never really get to live.
And that's something that Istruggle with too is like, where
, where is the line between,like, making ends meet and
(05:49):
grinding and doing the thingsthat you really love?
Like where, where is that line?
Because so many times the ratrace keeps you from doing that,
to really enjoying the thingsthat you love.
Natalie Mullin (05:58):
Yeah, no, I was just gonna say though, like I
think, even growing up,especially as Black people, I
think a lot of us never saw ourparents have true joy in the
sense of play and leisure andrelaxation.
Like a lot of us, when we thinkof our parents or elders or
just people in the community, wesaw hardworking people, people
who had one job, two jobs, threejobs, people who were always
(06:21):
cleaning the house, always goingto church, always going to
community organizations, likethey were just always doing
something.
So you grow up accepting thatthis is normal and, to be honest
, a lot of people I think ourparents' generation they took
pride in that they're like oh,I'm a hard worker, and I think
there is something to be saidabout kind of working hard.
But there is also something tobe said about getting to a place
(06:44):
where we realize we deserverest, we deserve to be able to
slow down.
Because what are you workinghard for?
You're working hard because youwant to have an enjoyable life,
and so many people are workinghard and they never get to enjoy
it.
And I think sometimes we thinkwe have all this time in the
world are, oh, I'm going toenjoy life when I retire, I'm
going to enjoy life when I getto a certain age, and we don't
(07:04):
know how much time we're givenon this earth.
And so it's heartbreaking to methat some people work so hard
to kill themselves over threejobs and you know, the day they
retired, the day they die right,or they don't even make it to
retirement.
And so it's like what was itfor?
Your family never saw you, younever got to spend time doing
things that brought you joy.
What was it for?
(07:24):
And I think that we need to bereminded that we do deserve rest
, we deserve to play, we deserveto do joyful activities.
That's not just about thehustle, not just about
productivity, not just aboutsuccess.
Richard Dodds (07:39):
Yeah, I think, more than any other group,
specifically black women tend tohave the most amount of
pressure to be.
You know, you always hit astrong black woman Like they
have such.
It's so much with theintersection, with the
intersectionality.
You know, it's like being black, being a woman, like all these
(08:00):
things come with different waysand societal norms that get put
on, get put on everybody, and Ifeel like black women have it
the hardest.
So why do you think it is soimportant specifically for black
women to focus and prioritizetheir mental health?
Natalie Mullin (08:15):
For black women.
The reason I think it'simportant is because we are the
staple of our households, we arethe staples of our families, we
are the staples of ourcommunities and children are
watching us and we are the rolemodels.
So when they see, oh, mom justkeeps working hard, mom just
keeps taking all of this on forherself, first of all for
(08:37):
females, for black girls, theygrow up thinking that they're
supposed to do the same.
Oh, I always saw my mom solvingeverybody else's problems.
I always saw my mom going,going.
I never saw my mom take a break, so this is what I'm supposed
to do too.
So the cycle repeats.
But also even for our blackboys, they say, oh well, mom's
got it under control, so I'mgood, like, let's just put it on
(08:59):
the mom.
And what happens is that ourblack males grow up and they
just put everything on the momand it's like no, mom needs some
support, like mom needs the dad, mom needs the husband, mom
needs the partner, mom needs thebrother, the uncle, male
support, because mom can't do itall.
She is not a superhero, she isnot a part of Marvel and you
know, sometimes she gets tired,right.
(09:20):
And I think that people justthink, okay, black women can do
it all and we can do a lot, butdo we want to do it all?
No, we really don't.
And I think some black womenhonestly have a hard time even
admitting that, like they knowwithin themselves that they
can't do it all, but they have ahard time uttering those words
like I need help, I need support, because, again, it wasn't
(09:42):
modeled for them.
So we really have to change ourlanguage and change our
thinking and accept that wecan't do it all.
We need support, we need acommunity.
Mom needs to be able to takeoff her cape.
Mom needs to be able to have alighter load, because what
happens is a lot of moms aregoing around and they're very
unfulfilled, they're just tired.
Like I think if you talk to alot of black women who are moms,
(10:04):
the word is tired and it's nota word that they come up and
honestly say to everyone becauseagain, they're trying to manage
everybody else's expectationsand everybody else expects that
they have it together.
So then they feel like, okay,well, I've got to have it
together, but that's a lot ofpressure.
You can't even honor your ownfeelings, you can't even center
(10:27):
your own wellbeing becauseyou're trying to manage the
expectations of everybody elsearound you, but in those moments
when that woman is by herself,and even if she's not a mom
black women by general we arejust moms in our communities,
right?
So even if you don't have yourown biological children, you're
still helping with somebody'skids.
Let me tell you right, even ifit's in the neighborhood or
(10:49):
something like that, there is alot that black women do and we
need to create a safe spacewhere black women can say I'm
tired, I don't have enough timeto pour into myself, to focus on
my own self-care, I want torest, I want to do something fun
for myself and I don't want tofeel guilty about doing that.
(11:11):
And if mom can do that, she issetting an example for the whole
rest of the community that wecan all take our turns for rest.
We can all take our turns toslow down.
We can all take our turns tofind things that are joyful and
allow us to live purposeful,meaningful lives instead of just
running ourselves ragged,because that's not the goal.
Richard Dodds (11:33):
Yeah, it's like I'm just thinking about all of
the different like social normsthat there have been, even like
especially when you think aboutnow, like women are the most
educated group of people youknow, at least in the United
States, and you think about howthings have changed so much like
back, way back, when you thinkabout the stereotypical type of
(11:54):
household it would be the manwould go to work, the wife would
stay home and they would takecare of the kids and the cooking
and cleaning.
And now that those roles have, Iwouldn't say shift, but they've
transformed Like both men andwomen, husbands and wives and
wives and husbands and husbands,whatever the configuration is,
usually everybody's going towork.
(12:15):
Most times you don't have thatlive at home like somebody who's
staying at home, and if that'sthe case, we can't say that all
right, you're the wife.
Even though you went to work,you still have to cook and clean
and take care of the kids byyourself, because that's your
position.
And then, even in that I'veseen like so many times you hear
about the people who have donethat I've taken care of the kids
(12:37):
my whole life, I've taken careof my husband my whole life and
now they might lose theirhusband and their kids are grown
and now they're like who am I?
And they don't know who theyare anymore 100%.
Natalie Mullin (12:51):
It's an identity crisis, because their whole
living and being was tied up inserving other people, but they
forgot to serve themselves.
And so when the kids move outthe home, when they don't have
anybody relying on them anymore,they're like what do I even do?
And sometimes you even see thisin women after they retire.
Like sometimes you just seethem, they're going around the
(13:12):
house and they're cleaning ahouse that's already clean,
because they don't even knowwhat it's like to just sit down.
They're always moving, theirhands are always.
They're washing up the one dishevery single time, because
they've just felt like they'vealways had responsibilities on
their plate and it's like, whydon't you go take a vacation?
Like, why don't you go dosomething like go garden or go
(13:35):
for a walk?
And a lot of times they'll say,oh no, I can't, I have to be
doing something.
Like they feel like they're not, like almost like it's a bad
thing if there's nothing to bedoing.
And I think we really have tocheck ourselves and we really
have to have honestconversations and say like, no,
no, no, this is not healthy.
Because at the same time, ourcommunity, the black community,
has so many health issues right,we have diabetes, we have
(13:58):
hypertension, we have high bloodpressure we have all of it, to
be honest and a lot of thisstuff is directly related to how
we manage our wellbeing, and soit's like we're not eating
properly, we're not exercising,we're not keeping the right
amount of rest and the rightamount of sleep, so it's like
you have to hold the two thingstogether.
So, yes, there's a part ofwellbeing that is, of course,
(14:19):
focused on the mental part,about just being able to slow
down at rest.
But also, what are wephysically doing to support our
wellbeing?
And, as a community, how are wegetting ourselves and involved
to be proactive about our health?
Because health and wellness,it's a holistic right.
They're directly connectedtogether.
Richard Dodds (14:40):
I think that's a great point, that all of this
kind of I always even myselflike I start, if I'm not working
out, I'm gonna get enough sleep.
I start to fall into like adepression.
Sometimes I'd be like what'swrong, like no matter what's
happening, like I always.
You just start to feel sad andworn down and it's like, oh,
like my wife would be like oh,are you taking care of yourself?
You're raggedy, you run down,you've been doing too much.
(15:02):
You need to take a day toyourself.
You need to go and do somethingwhere you're not working, just
go and chill out somewhere.
And like it's always importantto have those people in your
life that kind of tell you tosit down for a minute so that
you're not, so that you don'thave to get sick in order to
slow down.
That shouldn't be.
The time that you slow down iswhen you're sick.
Natalie Mullin (15:20):
No, exactly.
I just wrote a blog post aboutthis on LinkedIn and it was
talking about taking wellnessdays.
And it's like at work a lot oftimes like we take a sick day.
But a wellness day is a littlebit different, because you take
a wellness day before you getsick.
As soon as you start to realizelike you're feeling a little
bit off, whether you feeloverwhelmed or stressed or
you're just not feeling optimal,you take that time now before
(15:42):
you actually get sick, and sayyou know what?
I'm just gonna take a day toreset, because sometimes we just
need to reset, sometimes wejust need to pause.
And the other part of it issome people take a wellness day
just to enjoy life, like myhusband would take wellness days
well, he called them wellnessdays.
I need to sit at home and playXbox.
And at first I remember I waslike this is so immoral.
(16:04):
Like what are you doing?
Like you should be at work.
And he's like no, I just needto relax my mind.
And it took me a while.
But afterwards I actually sawhow it impacted his mood and him
having that time off to playX-MOS, which he really enjoyed.
It really did kind of give himthat kind of extra gust of
energy and I guess it's thesense of calm within himself
(16:25):
that he was like okay, I can goback to work now and I feel like
I've done something for myself.
And he would say like I'mgiving all these hours to my job
, like why shouldn't I be ableto reclaim some of that time for
myself?
So that really changed my wayof thinking and now I'm all for
those wellness days and I'm likeI think it's important that we
talk about this and that weencourage other people to take
(16:46):
them.
I think it's so great that yourwife is that kind of
accountability partner for youto say hey, I notice you don't
seem quite yourself.
You might need to just slowdown, because it's hard to see
when you're running, running,running, it's hard to notice
that you might be a little bitoff.
Maybe you're cranky, maybeyou're irritable.
You know, maybe you're makingmistakes, but the people around
(17:08):
you can be that support and justbe like you know.
I just want to check in, but Ithink that you might need to
pause.
You might need to take thattime, and it's really important
to listen to that instead ofjust saying no, no, no, I'm okay
, because what's going to happenis you eventually push yourself
too far and now you mightbecome ill, you might have
health concerns, you might be ina deeper ailment that's going
(17:30):
to take much longer to recoverfrom.
Richard Dodds (17:33):
Yeah, I always end up burning out.
But, like, just like yourhusband, I am an Xbox person and
it was times where I was in anunhealthy like relationship with
with the grind or the hustleculture to where I would I would
go and I would work my job andmaybe do a side job, maybe work
on a podcast, and I wouldliterally like work majority,
(17:54):
like 80% of my day and I'll playXbox for like an hour and then
I would like I would get in bedand like I feel bad, I play
games too long, and it's likeyou play games for like an hour,
calm down, it's okay.
And like it really took a longtime for me to break that Like
that.
Oh, like if I'm gaming I couldbe hustling, I could be doing
something else.
So it took a, it took a lot forme to break that mindset.
(18:16):
So, even like in thinking ofthat, like I think for you, like
from your story, it seems likeyou found out what your real
priority was in life and itwasn't working.
Like that's the working wasn'tyour priority, it was a means to
an end.
How can, how can, other peoplestart to find ways to prioritize
their, their health and theirmental health?
Natalie Mullin (18:37):
Yeah, I think it really starts with checking in
and seeing what are yourpriorities, like, what is the
most important thing to you?
What is the reason that keepsyou going and keeps you
motivated?
Why are you doing the thingsthat you're doing?
Right, because most people arenot really just working hard
just for the sake of makingmoney.
A lot of people are doing itfor their families or for their
(19:00):
loved ones, or because theythemselves are trying to maybe
get financial freedom orsomething like.
There's always like a deeperreason, and I think it's really
important to know what is thatdeeper reason.
What is that why?
Because once you know what yourwhy is, you can put it, you
know, you hold it there and yousay okay, this is my why.
Now I need to analyze thedecisions and the choices I'm
(19:20):
making with the, with theresources I have, whether time
or money, and see am Icontributing to my why or am I
taking away from and how am Ilike?
How are the two reconcilingeach other?
Right?
And so I think for a lot ofpeople, they just kind of need
to slow down and think how am Isupporting my why?
And I like to use this with myclients as a tool called JASP,
(19:42):
j-a-s-p, and so when you'remaking decisions for yourself,
right?
First I'll ask yourself does itbring you joy?
Is the thing that you're tryingto do?
Is it bringing you joy?
Is it in alignment?
That's the A is alignment.
Is it in alignment with thevalues you have for yourself and
for the future you want foryourself?
Because if it's not inalignment, then it's a no, then
(20:05):
the S is for sustainable.
Is what I'm doing sustainable?
Can you keep working 80% of theday?
The answer is no.
You are going to go lead toburnout or even worse, and
sometimes we think burnout isthe end of it.
It can be worse.
It can be very severe healthconsequences, it could be a
heart attack, it could be allsorts of things, or it could be
(20:25):
a lost relationship, like it wasat one point for me, right.
So, is it sustainable?
Are the things that you'redoing, are you saying yes to
everybody and everything, or areyou trying to do too much all
at once?
And I'm not saying like justdon't do anything and don't be
ambitious in life.
I'm an extremely ambitiousperson, but there is a time and
place and sometimes you have tosay, okay, I'm going to have to
(20:46):
slow down and I'm going to haveto do this now and then.
I'm going to do this then orI'm going to only allocate so
much time to this, but I'm goingto have a hard stop and when I
have a boundary over my time sothat I can still find time for
myself.
And then the P is about purpose.
Is this helping me fulfill thepurpose that I have in life?
Because I think a lot of peoplego around and they're just kind
(21:07):
of living life day to day, kindof on this hamster wheel, but
they don't feel any sense ofdeep meaning, like deep
fulfillment.
They don't feel like they'reactually doing things to
contribute to others, tocontribute to the world.
And I truly believe that we'reall here for a reason and I feel
like we're all here to helpeach other, lift each other up,
support each other.
And I think a lot of times whenpeople feel disconnected from
(21:29):
their purpose, it's becausethey're within their own selves,
they're within their shell,they're not using their gifts
and talents to kind of helpother people in the world.
And so, again, look at thatdecision.
Is this something that isleading me towards purpose or is
it leading me away from purpose?
So, jasp, j-a-s-p.
Joy, Alignment, sustainabilityand Purpose and that can help
(21:50):
you to make decisions, to betterset up your life in a way that
can be fulfilling for you.
Richard Dodds (21:57):
Yeah, I think that's so solid, that's such
good advice, like I like thatJASP.
I'm gonna have to write thatone down and use that one in my
own life.
So I think, like specificallywe kind of talked about it
before, talking about how, whenblack women prioritize
themselves, like it's a stigmaattached to it, what ways, how
(22:19):
can we start to change thatstigma and make it okay for I
mean not even just specificallyblack women, just because they
do so much for black families?
Natalie Mullin (22:31):
Yeah, honestly, it starts with what you tell
yourself.
At the end of the day, we aretaking on a lot of messages from
society and a lot of messagesfrom other people, their
expectations, what they thinkyou should be doing.
And I really believe indisruptive wellness, and
disruptive wellness is all aboutpushing back on society's
narrative of how you practicewellness for yourself.
(22:52):
You have to kind of honor yourown needs and recognize well,
this is what I need.
And along with recognizing whatyou need, you have to realize
that you're worth it.
And so for a lot of people,they have challenges putting
themselves first because theydon't think that they're worth
putting themselves first.
They don't think they'redeserving of that space.
And if you're in that place,you've got to shift your mindset
(23:12):
.
And I am telling you anybodywho's listening to this right
now you are worthy and you aredeserving and you don't need
anybody to tell you otherwise.
And if anybody has made youfeel incapable or not worthy,
not deserve it, that is a lie.
And you need to rest thosebeliefs down.
And you've got to believe itfor yourself.
And it might take some time,and I understand that, because
(23:33):
some people have really beenbeat down.
They've been, they've been toldtheir whole lives one thing
right.
A lot of this comes fromchildhood.
So if you grew up in a familyor you just had people when you
were younger, that kind of madeyou feel like you weren't worth
it.
It's a lot of years ofprogramming that you have to
undo, but every day you've gotto start telling yourself I'm
(23:54):
worth it, I'm deserving, I, Igood things should come to me.
And you know you've got tostart changing, changing your
brain and how your brain thinks,to believe that you're
deserving of it.
And then you need to just golive it out.
If you, if you think you'reworthy of something, then you
need the action to comealongside right, because there's
no point in thinking right.
(24:15):
We see a lot of women who like,oh, I'm worth this, I'm worth
that, and then they get togetherwith somebody who treats them
like Josh and it's like okay,well, your actions don't match
your words here, so the two needto go together.
So if you think you're worthyand deserving, how would you
treat a person who is worthy anddeserving?
If you think you're a queen wewant to use the word queens and
kings in our community how woulda queen act?
(24:37):
How would a queen take care ofherself?
Where would a queen physicallyplace herself?
How would a queen dress?
How would a queen, you know,restore her own self?
How would a queen allow peopleto talk to her?
How would a queen monitoraccess of who who can get to her
, right?
And so it's like we've got toestablish boundaries and
(24:59):
practices that are going to besupportive of the person that we
want to be.
They have to be in alignmentwith each other, and I think the
the last point I'll say on thisis about being in community.
I think you've got to be aroundpeople who talk the same talk
and walk the same walk that youwant for yourself, right?
So you know that phrase birdsof a feather flock together.
(25:21):
So if you see yourself on acertain level and the people
around you are not on that samelevel and they're not trying to
get there either, I'm not sayingyou have to fully cut them off,
but you might need to distanceyourself more and you might need
to find other people who arelike-minded and are going the
place that you want to go andare treating themselves the way
(25:42):
that you want to treat yourself,right?
So if you are a person whowants to elevate yourself.
Maybe you want to.
You know, just spend time withyourself.
And self-care doesn't have to beabout money.
I really want to talk aboutthat too, because sometimes
we're thinking self-care is like, oh, I got my nails done.
Or oh, I went for a massage,and everybody has different
(26:05):
financial situations.
And also you could be gettingyour hair done and your nails
done and still be extremelydepressed and unwell inside and
it's just for show or it's justoutward things.
But when I think of wellness,I'm really thinking about the
state of mind, like, are youcontent with who you are as a
person?
Are you content with how youshow up in the world, how you
live out your day to day actions?
(26:25):
And if you can, then you arehonoring your own well-being,
right?
We?
Nature is out there.
We can just take a walk in thepark.
We can take a walk down thestreet and breathe in the air.
That is free and that can be aform of self-care.
We can close our eyes and takea nap.
I am all about an app, okay,and that can be, because it's
giving yourself permission torot.
So I never want people to thinkthat self-care has to be going
(26:48):
and buying fancy bags and youknow our community, sometimes I
don't know, I don't know why butpeople like sometimes it hurts
me.
This materialism thing comes andwe talk about this soft life
and it becomes a showy thing andagain it's like but are you,
are you happy with the personyou are inside?
Like we have to really kind oflook inside, find the people
(27:10):
that are like-minded, that canencourage you and support you
and be like okay, we are goingtowards this version of wellness
, this version of whatever it is, that aligns with the version
that you have for yourself.
Richard Dodds (27:24):
Yeah, it is like it's funny.
We always I feel like I talkabout it so much as we do tend
to be showy and like, especiallylike social media doesn't help
at all just because you can putout a front, and so many times I
have seen people like put out afront and then when you
actually talk to them and youyou get to them on a personal
level, they're really just superdepressed and it's just so sad
(27:44):
to see you hate it.
That's why you got to check inon your friends, with who you
think they're strong.
You got to check in on themfriends, Make sure that they're
doing well, because sometimesthey go through stuff and you
can't even tell from the outsidelooking in.
Natalie Mullin (27:55):
Yeah, and you have to get to a place of
vulnerability too, becausesometimes you check in on your
friends and they're holding backright, and so they're like oh
yeah, everything's good, LikeI'm great, Everything is right.
But sometimes you have to pusha little bit and be like no,
like really, how are you?
But also you have to lead withthat too right, Like you can't
just expect people to open up toyou if you're not willing to
(28:17):
open up to them.
And I'm not a person who's likego talk your business to
everybody, because that's nothelpful.
But if you can find a few closefriends and just be like no,
it's okay.
We're really going to form aspace of honesty that when we
come together we're going to behonest and if things have hit
the fan, then we're going to saythings have hit the fan or like
I'm not feeling good, I feellike there's pressure, I feel
(28:40):
like I can't perform, I feellike I'm an imposter, I feel I'm
inadequate, I feel like thecards are stacked up against me.
Whatever it is you want to findwhether it's one, two, three
people that you can truly bejust your honest, open,
vulnerable self with, and thatthose people are going to take
your words and hold them in asafe space and support you,
(29:01):
because sometimes you're honestwith people and that their
response is not helpful, they'relike, oh well, that's your
fault and they're just blamingyou.
And you're like this is not,this is not helpful, Right.
And so I see that a lot.
I see people.
They put their trust in thewrong people and so the people
that they talk to all they do istear them down even more, and
that is not helpful to anybody.
So you got to find people whoare going to lift you up, who
(29:24):
are going to support you, and ifyou don't have those people in
your life because some peoplehonestly don't I would say to
like try to start listening toother positive people out there
and just pretend they're yourfriends, Like right.
Like go on a podcast, go onYouTube, go read a book of
people that you feel like areliving the kind of life that
you'd like and listen to thestories that they went through.
(29:45):
Sometimes I find it likehelpful to just listen to people
who go on through some really,really, really hard stuff,
because a, it's like okay, I'mnot alone, but B, it's like if
you see how they were able tokind of come out of their own
mess and build resilience orwhatever.
You can take ideas from them asyou're still looking for your
community of support.
(30:06):
But like, don't stay isolated,Because when you stay isolated,
all you do is talk to yourselfand no matter what.
Like, our negative self talk isso, so, so strong, even if we're
trying to be a positive person.
The negative like almost alwayswins and it's like they're
battling each other, but like,the negative is just strong.
So you've got to find ways tobuild up that, those positive
(30:29):
voices, those positiveinfluences in your life, so that
you can cling to them,especially when you don't feel
like you have that faith inyourself or you don't feel like
you have that belief.
And that's why it's good forother people, Because other I
know when I was at my lowest, Ihad nothing.
I was just empty, empty, broken, broken.
But the people around me wouldbe like Natalie, you can do this
(30:51):
, Natalie, you're going to getthrough this.
Natalie, life is not over Like.
And they just kept pouring thattruth into me While I truly
felt like I was at the bottom ofa pit, until I eventually was
able to take their words andkind of lean on their strength
and and and move forward.
Richard Dodds (31:08):
Yeah, I think that that's all like.
That's very good advice.
It's just, yeah, community isso important like humans weren't
meant to be alone.
I feel like as technology grows, and I mean especially after
COVID, so many of us sectionourselves off and isolate.
It's so, and it's like I'm notgoing to say my, but someone
who's been around like beforethe internet was really like a
(31:30):
thing thing.
You know what I mean.
I know right.
Well, like the way makingfriends is so much harder now.
It used to be.
You would make friendseverywhere, like at church, at
school, like just going to thegrocery market, and it's like so
much like we do not speak toeach other anymore, we don't do
stuff.
It's like you really have to bereally intentional when trying
(31:52):
to make friends.
Now, Like, since I've leftcollege, I can't even think of
like outside of maybe like acouple or a handful of people.
I can't even think of any newpeople that I've met that I
would really consider a friendthat I did not meet, like in
college or at work.
You know what I mean.
And sometimes you do want thatseparation, so it's even hard to
like try to be friends withpeople you are with.
(32:14):
So community is important.
Natalie Mullin (32:17):
Community is important and I feel for
everyone.
And you know what, like workingremotely for those who do it,
like that doesn't help in a lotof ways too.
And also, I think, just as weage, like I think about that too
.
I think a lot of the friendsthat I have are from when I was
younger, and whether at churchor from school university, same
thing.
Like after that, it kind of waslike oh okay, well, we're just
(32:40):
kind of done.
But then some of those peopleyou just kind of fall out of
touch with, especially whenpeople move or just life
circumstances change, and so youreally do have to be
intentional and put yourself outthere.
And this is where I would say,though, quality over quantity,
because there gets no point.
Like I'm at a point right nowwhere I have a bandwidth that's
(33:02):
pretty backstabbed, so I can, Ican't really accept too much
more friends in my life.
Anyways, I just don't have thetime to keep up with them in the
way that I would like to.
You know what I mean like to bea good friend.
So at this point I'm like, okay, who are the people that are
close to me that I know, that Ican commit to regularly check in
on them and that I can receivethe energy that they have.
Because as a friend it's a giveand take relationship, right,
(33:24):
it's reciprocal, and you have tobe a good friend for people,
which means sometimes you'relistening to their hard
difficulties and troubles andtrials and I can't take on all
too much of that.
So I have, I just have to know,like what, what I can
emotionally handle and because Ihave a young son too, right, so
he, he just takes a lot out ofme Like.
(33:44):
okay, I'm more cognizant now.
I just don't have the same.
I can't be on the phone tilltwo, am talking with people
about there.
I just can't do it.
I just need to sleep first ofall, like, I just need to sleep,
but I have to have energy forfor my son, because obviously
he's the priority.
So I think when you're lookingfor friends, man like, and I
don't have a specific like, oh,this is the best advice, but you
(34:07):
do have to put yourself outthere to try to find people,
because I do not think we aremeant to live in isolation, just
like you said, and I think itis so important for our well
being to be in a relationshipwith other people, not just
romantic relationships, becauseI see some people who their
significant other is likethey're gone, it's like they're
there and all and be all, andthat is putting entirely too
(34:29):
much pressure on that otherperson and that person cannot be
it for all.
People Like I cannot meet allmy husband's needs.
My husband cannot meet all myneeds.
Right, like you've got to, yougot to spread the load.
You've got to have some otherpeople available to you and so
you've got to see, like, how canyou put yourself in communities
or spaces where you mightattract like minded people and
(34:51):
hopefully you have something incommon.
Like you know, if you're apodcaster, maybe you buddy up
with another podcaster, maybeyou go to a networking event or
something.
Or if you like sports, maybeyou join a team and then hope
you might find a friend that waywith work.
Yeah, I understand that,because sometimes you're like oh
, you know what, I'm good withyou.
Richard Dodds (35:09):
Like we could go for a drink, but then that's
where it's got to stop Right,like sometimes and you've got to
see, you've got like.
Natalie Mullin (35:14):
I have some good friends from work and others.
I'm like Remember I had itsomeone and I was like, oh,
please don't message me on myInstagram.
Like.
Richard Dodds (35:20):
I try to keep this professional.
Natalie Mullin (35:22):
Like I try to keep my personal and
professional separate.
But you've just got to findways and even put it out there.
Sometimes I would, literally Iwould tell my hairdresser I'm
like, oh my God, I'm just tryingto find some friends, like some
, some new friends that werekind of headed in the direction
of where I wanted to get.
I would just kind of put it outthere in the atmosphere you
could do vision boarding or justwrite it down journal.
(35:43):
But like you have to, you haveto identify what you want.
Like you need to know what youwant and you need to put it out
there so you can attract thoseright people to you in the first
place.
But it's not about having tonsand tons of friends, it's about
having that core group that youknow you can rely on, that
you're there for them andthey're there for you.
Richard Dodds (36:03):
Yeah, that's all good points.
I think a lot of them, like alot of my good friends some of
them I don't even get to talk toall the time and I think like a
great sign of like a greatfriend is that you guys might
not talk for a couple of yearsand you see each other and say,
hey, how you been Like blah,blah blah and you talk like you
never lost touch and that's howyou know that you have like a
really good, true bond with thatperson.
(36:23):
Just because you think aboutyou talk.
If you get, you got a job andthen you get.
If you get married, you havekids, like everything that like
you families, like your parentstrying to keep in like that
stuff going.
Like even when I was like asingle man, like just working a
job and like doing whatever elseI did, it was hard to keep up
with people.
It was like now like married,like I'm trying to make sure my
(36:47):
household is in order, so it'sjust a lot more so it's like I
always appreciate.
Like those two friends is likewe haven't seen each other in
two years, but if you saw ustalking you wouldn't be able to
tell, just because if they needsomething, they can hit me up
and I'm there for them and viceversa, I'm always there and it's
a reciprocal thing, like yousaid, and I don't expect
anything from them that Iwouldn't provide to them on the
(37:08):
same level.
And I think that's an importantpart, because sometimes
friendships can be very onesided.
Like they, they're there, likethey can come when you, when you
need them, when they need you,I'm here, but you need them, and
then they don't want to listenand that's not really a
friendship.
And I was going to say anything.
It's like be careful of onesided relationships, whether
(37:30):
it's like a, like a sexualrelationship or like whether
it's a friendship.
Like, just be very careful withone sided relationships.
If you're not getting somethingout of it, just either
intrinsically or one way oranother, then that might not.
You might need to reevaluatethat friendship, because that
might be one of the thingsthat's causing you stress and
pulling you down 100%.
Natalie Mullin (37:52):
And I think people need to do those
check-ins.
And I think sometimes too, likepeople, especially black women,
like we really believe in thisidea of potential, right, and
we're like, oh my gosh,especially with, like a
significant other romanticrelationship, like, oh, but this
person has so much potential,and so they just keep giving,
giving to give their all to thisperson, that person.
(38:12):
They give nothing back to thembut a headache, okay, but they
still keep going and it's like,no, we do have to pause and do
that, check it and be like am Ibeing treated the way that I
want to be treated?
And this is why it comes backto alignment.
And you have to know what youwant for yourself and you have
to know what are you deservingof and what are you going to
maintain as your standard,because what you set as the
(38:34):
standard is exactly what you'regoing to attract.
So if your standard is way downat the bottom, well, that is
what is coming to you.
If your standard is way here atthe top, that's what's going to
come to you, and if anythingelse that doesn't match the
standard comes to you, you'regoing to be like, oh no, sorry,
you just you know me.
So, um, reciprocity is soimportant.
I think we're just in a selfishtime where people are just
(38:55):
about like me, me, me.
I remember I had this friend andit's like I don't know what
happened, but she just kind ofchanged and all of a sudden it's
like anytime something negativewas going on in her life and
she wanted support, messaging medown oh my gosh, this is this.
Of course I'm a supportiveperson.
I'm like oh man, I'm so sorry.
Here's encouragement, here'sthis.
Then you don't hear from heragain.
(39:16):
All of a sudden.
Next next thing comes up in herlife.
All of a sudden she's back.
And so it's like sometimesyou're like wait, I'm noticing a
pattern here.
When I just reach out to you tosay hi, you're not even
responding.
Richard Dodds (39:28):
Don't even respond back Right.
Natalie Mullin (39:30):
Like I'm like this is, this is no, so it's
just a no.
And you've got to know whenyou've got to walk away from
whether a friendship, arelationship, a partnership that
is not mutually beneficialBecause all it will do is, if
you were the giver, you're goingto become jaded eventually and
that's that's not the goal.
You want to be in relationshipwith people who make you feel
(39:53):
good and where you feelappreciated, where you feel
respected.
And I completely agree withwhat you said about like yeah, I
have those friends too.
I might not see them for acouple of years.
And you see them and you'relike, oh my gosh.
And like sometimes I don't evenrealize it's been so long.
Like in my mind, I'm like, oh,we just talked the other day.
And then I'll look up myWhatsApp and I'll be like, oh,
2021, like for real, my bad.
(40:14):
Like you know but it's okay,because when we come back
together, not only are we good,but I feel like I can still be
my full, authentic self.
And I think it's so importantto be around people that you can
just be you.
You don't have to havepretenses, you don't have to
watch what you're saying, youcan just come as you are.
They accept you for who you arethe good and the bad because we
(40:35):
all have, you know, pros andcons to us and you can just be.
I think that alone is supportsyour well-being.
When you can just be aroundfriends, that you can just be
chill and just be who you are, Ithink is very freeing and very
powerful too.
Richard Dodds (40:50):
No, I totally agree with that.
And it's funny because eventhinking about cutting off
friends is like I can't rememberfriendships, that in whether
you end on my weather, they endon my, whatever happens.
And it's like thinking of likeone of the takeout, Like I was
so devastated when we decidedthat we weren't going to be
friends anymore.
But in those coming weeks Ifelt so much peace, just because
I didn't realize what thatperson had constantly been
(41:12):
putting on me, like thenegativity and the things that
came along with it.
I felt like at one point in mylife I lost a bunch of friends
at the same time for variousreasons and I was like man, I
feel so much lighter in it.
It's like not even to be cheesy,but it's like a Drake song
where he says like he's beenlosing friends and fighting
peace, and it's like I kind oflike I kind of understand that
lyric in a real way, Cause it'slike I've lost some friends, I
(41:34):
found peace and it's crazy thatyou would think that like losing
a friend would be sodevastating, but it's a time and
a place and sometimes that timepasses and that friend is no
longer a friend in the way thatyou, or maybe they can't support
you in a way that they needsupport, Cause we all are
changing and growing and we'renot always changing and growing
together.
Natalie Mullin (41:54):
And that's it.
And it doesn't have to be likea bad thing, like do you know
what I mean?
Like it can just be like listen, for the time we were friends,
for the time we were in arelationship, for the time
whatever it was good.
And now we're just walking twodifferent paths.
I wish you all the best.
I'm going here, you're goingthere.
There's no hard feeling.
You know what I mean, because Ithink sometimes people are
clinging, they're holding on tosomething that needs to die.
(42:16):
Like they just need to let that.
Whatever the relationship isgoing on, they just go and
they're holding on to it and allthey're doing is causing
themselves more stress andheartache.
And if they would get to apoint where they can say you
know what, I released this, theywould find that same piece that
you're talking about.
But not everybody is like okay,making that choice, and I think
(42:38):
it's out of fear, like they'rejust fear of the unknown right,
like they don't know what lifelooks like if they don't have
that person in their life.
But you just have to say look,what do I deserve?
Am I deserving of peace?
Am I deserving of joy?
Am I deserving of just a stressfree life or just maybe a more
uplifting life, like sometimesit's just like the vibe, like
people are pulling you down andyou're like I'm trying to go
higher.
So I just I just got to do whatI got to do.
(43:01):
But this is when you got to putyourself first and you say, like
, again, I have to put myselffirst.
What do I need to become theperson that I want to become, or
to get closer?
Do you know what I mean?
As you said, we're alwaysevolving, we're always growing.
So you've got to be thinking inthat forward kind of journey
and not everybody is meant to beon all parts of the journey
(43:23):
with you and, as I said, you canrespect them.
Maybe, like for this part ofthe journey it's been real, it's
been great and I'm grateful.
I'm so grateful for this time.
Richard Dodds (43:32):
Yeah.
Natalie Mullin (43:33):
I got to keep, I got to keep moving, you're
going to stay, or sometimes theygo the other way and that's OK.
And I think when I finallyaccepted that because I was that
Klinger I was like, oh no, I'mgoing to be with everybody
forever.
And you know, it was hard.
I remember, even inrelationships where I should
break up with a person, I justwas like, no, I just can't, I'll
(43:53):
make it work.
Richard Dodds (43:53):
Break up with me or I'll make it work because you
know.
Natalie Mullin (43:57):
And then after I'm like but I'm not happy, Like
why am I doing this to myself?
And then eventually you kind ofget that confidence and you're
like no, I know what I deserve,or I know what I'm worth and I
know where I'm headed, and soI'm going to have to make some
tough decisions and get goingwith it.
Richard Dodds (44:16):
Yeah, that's.
I feel like that's how italways is.
It's just it's really hard.
I mean, it's hard to change,and even when you think about
relationships, I always think ofit as a competitive thing.
It's like you don't want tolose.
It's like I can make this workand it's like why are you
spending so much time trying tomake this failing thing work?
Why not find something thatworks without you having to
(44:38):
change who you are?
Because, whether it's arelationship or romantic
relationship or just afriendship, if you can't be
yourself around that person,then it's not going to be.
It's not something that'ssustainable.
When you go back to your, toyour uh, yeah, is it?
J J, J J A S.
P yeah, yeah when you're like isthat, as is this, sustainable?
(45:00):
And it's like if you're notbeing yourself, it's only so
much either you're going tocompletely change who you are
and that'll probably alienatepeople in your life, or is this
not going to be sustainable, andthat is just.
I think that's something thatthat a lot of people end up
contending with.
Natalie Mullin (45:14):
Yeah, no, I 100% agree and you just have to.
Sometimes in life you have tomake hard decisions Like that's
just what it is.
It's not like it's easysometimes to to walk away from a
relationship or to endsomething like.
I'm very empathetic to that,especially when maybe you saw
this as your future right andyou only saw it going a certain
way.
And it's not.
Or you just been, you've justbeen friends with someone for a
(45:37):
really long time and you haveall of that history.
But again, what do you want foryour own self?
Because you're holding your ownself back.
It's like you're robbing yourown self of future joy.
But it's because we don'tbelieve that there's better for
us.
Sometime, like we think like,nah, I just got to hold on to
what I have right now.
It's like a scarcity mentality.
(45:57):
It's like, well, I don't thinkthere's enough out there for me,
I don't think there's betterout there for me.
So I'm just going to cling tothe little I have and try to
make it work.
But not only are you trying tomake it work, you're actually
miserable at the same time.
So it's counterproductive in inalways.
Not like you're trying to makeit work and you're happy Like no
, like when you're forcingsomething, it's never good,
(46:18):
right?
If you, if you have a banana,it's not ripe and you, you try
to force right.
But or do it with mangoes.
It never tastes as good as ifit just ripened on its own.
So if it is not naturallycoming to be, you just need to
let it go, and sometimes itcomes back to you, right?
Richard Dodds (46:32):
Sometimes it does yeah.
Natalie Mullin (46:34):
And sometimes it doesn't.
And you just got to be open andjust trust that the universe
has that God, whoever youbelieve in, has something better
out there for you and that ifyou are deserving of it and you
put yourself out there, youattract that good to you.
But you've got to believe thatyou're worth it and you've got
to believe that it's out therefor you and you've got to.
And you cannot receive if yourhands are closed.
(46:56):
You know what I mean.
If you're holding on towhatever it is you're holding on
to, how are you supposed to getthe new stuff?
You've got to let it go, haveyour hands open and then you can
receive what's there for you.
Richard Dodds (47:06):
That's such a great point.
We talked about this before andwhen we've spoken before and
it's like your podcast titlefrom a full cup.
It's like I just I love that,because there's so many times
you can't pour from an empty cup.
But I just wanted to talk toyou and I wanted to ask you what
does from a full cup mean foryou?
Natalie Mullin (47:25):
Yeah, so for me, from a full cup is the goal.
Like we say we can't pour froman empty cup, and people just
kind of leave it at that oh, Ican't pour from an empty cup,
and it's like, okay.
So if we can't pour from anempty cup, it means that we need
to fill our cups.
So we need to be intentionalagain, put in that practice, put
in that auction of pouring backinto ourselves and Managing our
(47:50):
well-being, managing ourself-care, managing our need, so
that we're not running on theempty.
So it's like what are you doingto proactively pour back into
yourself?
How are you becoming a betterperson?
How are you meeting your ownneeds?
How are you taking care ofyourself so that you can show up
for others?
And it's like for me, it's notfrom a selfish place, right,
(48:12):
like a lot of people are like ohwell, self-care is selfish and
oh, you can't remember, from anempty cup.
I remember I heard this personsay I'm just going to have my
cup full and leave it and I waslike oh, okay, like for me
that's not, that's not what Ithink.
I think that, like, I want mycup to be full so that from the
overflow I'm able to helpeverybody else around me.
(48:32):
I'm able to serve everybodyelse around me.
I'm not a selfish person.
I want to give, but I cannotgive and just have nothing for
myself.
I want to have so much in me.
I want to be so happy, sojoyful, so peaceful, so patient,
so abundant.
I can give, give, give toeverybody else and we can all be
filling our cups together.
You know, like that, like Ithink it's at a wedding where
(48:55):
you would have like thatchampagne glass and they pour it
in the first glass and it runsout right, real fancy stuff.
That's what I want, like I wantto be that top cup and like I'm
full and it's like tricklingdown and we're and this is how
we get to a collective wellness.
And I was just talking tosomebody about this on a podcast
the other day and it was likewe think about our own
individual wellbeing, but are wethinking about the collective
(49:15):
wellbeing?
Because, at the end of the day,if I'm good but my family isn't
good, my friends aren't good,my neighbors, the strangers
across the street aren't good,am I really good?
Like how are we all movingforward?
And again I said like I feellike our society is very selfish
, but if we could take a pause,there is something to be said
about the collective wellbeingand I think we really understood
(49:36):
it during COVID, because Ithink that was one of the few
times in life where you feltlike you felt when other people
were unwell, whether emotionally, physically, like you were so
connected to what was happeningin everybody else's households.
And I think we need to keep thecollective wellbeing at the
forefront, even like in aworkplace environment.
It's like you might be here,like, oh, I'm good and I'm doing
(49:59):
my work and it's like, well,your coworkers are stressed and
burnt out, like, are you goingto lend a hand, are you going to
offer, if you can, to supportthem?
Because it doesn't.
It doesn't work for the team,like, and I think sometimes we
think we're all disconnectedfrom each other, but I think
we're like, like, like humanity,we're a team, like we need to
play together, we need tosupport each other.
(50:19):
Just like what you said aboutcommunity, we need to care about
each other.
And it's like what is the pointof me just being well, all on my
own and like you're hurtingover there, like, surely there
might be something that is in me, a gift, a talent, a skill that
I have that I can use tosupport you, to encourage you,
instead of just like being badall by myself?
(50:41):
Well, that's not, that's notthe goal for me.
So I just think that if we canget to a place where our cups
are full, we can better act outour purpose, better live out our
purpose in life and live thatmeaningful life, because I
really do believe we're allmeant to live full, abundant,
(51:01):
thriving lives and our cups haveto be full to do that.
So we have to be intentionalabout that and then we have to
realize our cup is not just fullfor ourselves, so that we can
serve others, be there forothers and together as a
collective, we can lift eachother up.
Richard Dodds (51:19):
That's so well said.
Well, thank you for coming onthe show.
I really appreciate talking toyou.
Natalie Mullin (51:25):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
It's a great conversation.
Richard Dodds (51:29):
So, again, I'd like to thank Natalie for coming
on the show.
If you'd like to learn moreabout her or her podcast from a
full cup, I'll make sure I leavethat information in the show
notes.
Still Talking Black is a CrownCulture and Media LLC production
.
You can find out more about theshow at stilltalkingblackcom,
but until then, keep talking.
This is Still Talking Black, a show where we
discuss topics affectingblackness from a black point of
view.
I'm your host, richard Dyes,and on today's episode I am
joined by Natalie Mullen.
We talk about how her hustling,bustle lifestyle being triple
booked and staying constantlybusy starts to really affect not
only her wellness mentalwellness but the thing that she
(00:22):
really cared about most.
Sometimes the things that wecare about most don't have
anything to do with the hustlingbustle, and we're moving in a
way that the world tells us tomove and not always trying to
figure out the things thatmatter most to us.
So how do we recenter and findthe things that are really
important to us and facilitategrowth and prosperity in those
(00:44):
areas?
That is some of the things thatwe talk about on today's
episode.
So, without further ado, here'sNatalie.
Natalie Mullin (00:51):
Hi, I'm Natalie Mullen.
I'm a certified wellnesseducator and coach and I love
supporting women who just feelstuck, overwhelmed, stressed,
and they're just trying to findmore balance in their life so
they can spend more time withthemselves, with their loved
ones and those that matter tothem.
Richard Dodds (01:07):
That's awesome you.
You were like so ready for it.
I like it when people are readyand they know exactly who they
are.
I always find it that I'm sorry.
I always find it that whenpeople can describe who they are
and what they do, they have agood understanding of who they
are.
But the ones who don't struggle.
Natalie Mullin (01:24):
Yeah, you're like sorry, cancel this, cancel
this recording.
You can come back next year.
Richard Dodds (01:32):
Practice- Like I'll call you back.
Something came up, yeah.
Natalie Mullin (01:36):
What, mom, what you need me now I gotta go.
Richard Dodds (01:39):
I gotta go.
I thought you put your phone on.
Do not disturb.
What do you mean?
Natalie Mullin (01:42):
Yeah, Actually, I should do that right now.
Richard Dodds (01:46):
That's always a good thing, right, because
people tend to call it the worstmoments, right?
Natalie Mullin (01:50):
Right when you turn the mic on Always.
Richard Dodds (01:53):
So how did you start and how did you start to
embark on your wellness journey?
Natalie Mullin (01:58):
Yeah.
So for me it's okay.
So let's start.
So life was very busy and I wasdoing all the things that I
thought I should be doing.
So I was working full time.
I had a gig on the side.
I was saying yes to everybody.
My calendar was packed frommorning to night.
(02:18):
I'd be like triple scheduled.
I'd be on the phone in ameeting on the way to another
meeting, have a social eventafter.
It was just mayhem, but Iactually thought that this was
good.
I felt like, oh, I'm reallyproductive, I'm really working
hard in life.
This is the message I've alwaysgotten from my parents.
Like, you know, you've got towear a card, you've got to be
better than us and you know youfeel like you have this burden
(02:42):
on your shoulders.
It's your responsibility tocarry it.
So, to be honest, I was prettyproud of myself.
I felt like I was doing all theright things and I wasn't
really paying attention to whatwas happening around me.
And that, all of a sudden, oneday, my husband said like he
wanted a divorce, completely outthe blue, and I was like I'm
sorry.
What word was that?
What did you say?
(03:02):
And, long story short, I hadbeen so busy in my day to day
life so busy, trying to juggleall of these other
responsibilities, that I didn'trealize that my personal life
was being affected until it wasbasically too late.
And this sent me into a hugedepression because for me,
that's all I wanted.
All I wanted was my family.
(03:22):
So then you kind of get to thispoint and you're like well,
what was the point of me workingso hard, chasing money, chasing
success, chasing opportunities,if in the end I'm going to lose
, like what matters most, what Iwas working so hard for in the
in the first place?
And after being in thisdepression for a while, I
remember talking to one of myfriends and she's like well, you
have to snap out of it, likeyou can't just stay in this
(03:43):
negative place for the wholetime.
And I'm like but how, like I,nothing is changing my life.
He doesn't want to work it out.
So what is going to make lifebetter?
And she's like you've got to doit for yourself, like you've
just got to find it withinyourself to pull yourself out.
So I was like okay, I don'tknow what that means, but let me
just try, because sometimes youhave no clue how to move
(04:04):
forward.
But it starts with the decisionto try.
I will say that, and I was likeI'm just going to try.
So I tried to start surroundingmyself with just positive
influences.
I went to therapy.
I started talking to just a fewwise people, because sometimes
you're talking to people andthey're not helping you.
They're just actually adding tothe clutter going on in your
head.
(04:25):
And, long story short, I wasable to, I guess, kind of put
together a roadmap for my ownself of how to get out of there.
I was like I had to find out,figure out self awareness, what
do I even want out of my ownlife?
And this is what began mywellness journey.
So figuring out what do I wantout of life, who do I want to
become?
And then, how do I get there?
What activities do I want thatare going to bring me joy and
(04:48):
deep meaning, what are thevalues that I hold dear to
myself?
And that kind of became mywellness journey and eventually
my whole life transformed andthankfully my marriage was
restored.
But it's within that kind ofsitting by myself and kind of
figuring out what kind ofwellness journey do I want for
myself.
This is what got me into thiswork and I was like I want to
(05:10):
help other women.
I want to help other people whoare kind of going through these
same struggles.
They feel like they're stuck orat their crossroads.
Maybe they've put themselves ona back burner and they just
don't see a way forward.
Now that I've kind of figuredit out for myself, I want to
help do this for other women too.
Richard Dodds (05:27):
That that is like a really amazing story, and
it's just so many times I feellike we're always here that we
got to be busy, busy, busy, busy, busy.
And what I've seen withespecially like a lot of black
people, unfortunately is that wespend so much time grinding
that we never really get to live.
And that's something that Istruggle with too is like, where
, where is the line between,like, making ends meet and
(05:49):
grinding and doing the thingsthat you really love?
Like where, where is that line?
Because so many times the ratrace keeps you from doing that,
to really enjoying the thingsthat you love.
Natalie Mullin (05:58):
Yeah, no, I was just gonna say though, like I
think, even growing up,especially as Black people, I
think a lot of us never saw ourparents have true joy in the
sense of play and leisure andrelaxation.
Like a lot of us, when we thinkof our parents or elders or
just people in the community, wesaw hardworking people, people
who had one job, two jobs, threejobs, people who were always
(06:21):
cleaning the house, always goingto church, always going to
community organizations, likethey were just always doing
something.
So you grow up accepting thatthis is normal and, to be honest
, a lot of people I think ourparents' generation they took
pride in that they're like oh,I'm a hard worker, and I think
there is something to be saidabout kind of working hard.
But there is also something tobe said about getting to a place
(06:44):
where we realize we deserverest, we deserve to be able to
slow down.
Because what are you workinghard for?
You're working hard because youwant to have an enjoyable life,
and so many people are workinghard and they never get to enjoy
it.
And I think sometimes we thinkwe have all this time in the
world are, oh, I'm going toenjoy life when I retire, I'm
going to enjoy life when I getto a certain age, and we don't
(07:04):
know how much time we're givenon this earth.
And so it's heartbreaking to methat some people work so hard
to kill themselves over threejobs and you know, the day they
retired, the day they die right,or they don't even make it to
retirement.
And so it's like what was itfor?
Your family never saw you, younever got to spend time doing
things that brought you joy.
What was it for?
(07:24):
And I think that we need to bereminded that we do deserve rest
, we deserve to play, we deserveto do joyful activities.
That's not just about thehustle, not just about
productivity, not just aboutsuccess.
Richard Dodds (07:39):
Yeah, I think, more than any other group,
specifically black women tend tohave the most amount of
pressure to be.
You know, you always hit astrong black woman Like they
have such.
It's so much with theintersection, with the
intersectionality.
You know, it's like being black, being a woman, like all these
(08:00):
things come with different waysand societal norms that get put
on, get put on everybody, and Ifeel like black women have it
the hardest.
So why do you think it is soimportant specifically for black
women to focus and prioritizetheir mental health?
Natalie Mullin (08:15):
For black women.
The reason I think it'simportant is because we are the
staple of our households, we arethe staples of our families, we
are the staples of ourcommunities and children are
watching us and we are the rolemodels.
So when they see, oh, mom justkeeps working hard, mom just
keeps taking all of this on forherself, first of all for
(08:37):
females, for black girls, theygrow up thinking that they're
supposed to do the same.
Oh, I always saw my mom solvingeverybody else's problems.
I always saw my mom going,going.
I never saw my mom take a break, so this is what I'm supposed
to do too.
So the cycle repeats.
But also even for our blackboys, they say, oh well, mom's
got it under control, so I'mgood, like, let's just put it on
(08:59):
the mom.
And what happens is that ourblack males grow up and they
just put everything on the momand it's like no, mom needs some
support, like mom needs the dad, mom needs the husband, mom
needs the partner, mom needs thebrother, the uncle, male
support, because mom can't do itall.
She is not a superhero, she isnot a part of Marvel and you
know, sometimes she gets tired,right.
(09:20):
And I think that people justthink, okay, black women can do
it all and we can do a lot, butdo we want to do it all?
No, we really don't.
And I think some black womenhonestly have a hard time even
admitting that, like they knowwithin themselves that they
can't do it all, but they have ahard time uttering those words
like I need help, I need support, because, again, it wasn't
(09:42):
modeled for them.
So we really have to change ourlanguage and change our
thinking and accept that wecan't do it all.
We need support, we need acommunity.
Mom needs to be able to takeoff her cape.
Mom needs to be able to have alighter load, because what
happens is a lot of moms aregoing around and they're very
unfulfilled, they're just tired.
Like I think if you talk to alot of black women who are moms,
(10:04):
the word is tired and it's nota word that they come up and
honestly say to everyone becauseagain, they're trying to manage
everybody else's expectationsand everybody else expects that
they have it together.
So then they feel like, okay,well, I've got to have it
together, but that's a lot ofpressure.
You can't even honor your ownfeelings, you can't even center
(10:27):
your own wellbeing becauseyou're trying to manage the
expectations of everybody elsearound you, but in those moments
when that woman is by herself,and even if she's not a mom
black women by general we arejust moms in our communities,
right?
So even if you don't have yourown biological children, you're
still helping with somebody'skids.
Let me tell you right, even ifit's in the neighborhood or
(10:49):
something like that, there is alot that black women do and we
need to create a safe spacewhere black women can say I'm
tired, I don't have enough timeto pour into myself, to focus on
my own self-care, I want torest, I want to do something fun
for myself and I don't want tofeel guilty about doing that.
(11:11):
And if mom can do that, she issetting an example for the whole
rest of the community that wecan all take our turns for rest.
We can all take our turns toslow down.
We can all take our turns tofind things that are joyful and
allow us to live purposeful,meaningful lives instead of just
running ourselves ragged,because that's not the goal.
Richard Dodds (11:33):
Yeah, it's like I'm just thinking about all of
the different like social normsthat there have been, even like
especially when you think aboutnow, like women are the most
educated group of people youknow, at least in the United
States, and you think about howthings have changed so much like
back, way back, when you thinkabout the stereotypical type of
(11:54):
household it would be the manwould go to work, the wife would
stay home and they would takecare of the kids and the cooking
and cleaning.
And now that those roles have, Iwouldn't say shift, but they've
transformed Like both men andwomen, husbands and wives and
wives and husbands and husbands,whatever the configuration is,
usually everybody's going towork.
(12:15):
Most times you don't have thatlive at home like somebody who's
staying at home, and if that'sthe case, we can't say that all
right, you're the wife.
Even though you went to work,you still have to cook and clean
and take care of the kids byyourself, because that's your
position.
And then, even in that I'veseen like so many times you hear
about the people who have donethat I've taken care of the kids
(12:37):
my whole life, I've taken careof my husband my whole life and
now they might lose theirhusband and their kids are grown
and now they're like who am I?
And they don't know who theyare anymore 100%.
Natalie Mullin (12:51):
It's an identity crisis, because their whole
living and being was tied up inserving other people, but they
forgot to serve themselves.
And so when the kids move outthe home, when they don't have
anybody relying on them anymore,they're like what do I even do?
And sometimes you even see thisin women after they retire.
Like sometimes you just seethem, they're going around the
(13:12):
house and they're cleaning ahouse that's already clean,
because they don't even knowwhat it's like to just sit down.
They're always moving, theirhands are always.
They're washing up the one dishevery single time, because
they've just felt like they'vealways had responsibilities on
their plate and it's like, whydon't you go take a vacation?
Like, why don't you go dosomething like go garden or go
(13:35):
for a walk?
And a lot of times they'll say,oh no, I can't, I have to be
doing something.
Like they feel like they're not, like almost like it's a bad
thing if there's nothing to bedoing.
And I think we really have tocheck ourselves and we really
have to have honestconversations and say like, no,
no, no, this is not healthy.
Because at the same time, ourcommunity, the black community,
has so many health issues right,we have diabetes, we have
(13:58):
hypertension, we have high bloodpressure we have all of it, to
be honest and a lot of thisstuff is directly related to how
we manage our wellbeing, and soit's like we're not eating
properly, we're not exercising,we're not keeping the right
amount of rest and the rightamount of sleep, so it's like
you have to hold the two thingstogether.
So, yes, there's a part ofwellbeing that is, of course,
(14:19):
focused on the mental part,about just being able to slow
down at rest.
But also, what are wephysically doing to support our
wellbeing?
And, as a community, how are wegetting ourselves and involved
to be proactive about our health?
Because health and wellness,it's a holistic right.
They're directly connectedtogether.
Richard Dodds (14:40):
I think that's a great point, that all of this
kind of I always even myselflike I start, if I'm not working
out, I'm gonna get enough sleep.
I start to fall into like adepression.
Sometimes I'd be like what'swrong, like no matter what's
happening, like I always.
You just start to feel sad andworn down and it's like, oh,
like my wife would be like oh,are you taking care of yourself?
You're raggedy, you run down,you've been doing too much.
(15:02):
You need to take a day toyourself.
You need to go and do somethingwhere you're not working, just
go and chill out somewhere.
And like it's always importantto have those people in your
life that kind of tell you tosit down for a minute so that
you're not, so that you don'thave to get sick in order to
slow down.
That shouldn't be.
The time that you slow down iswhen you're sick.
Natalie Mullin (15:20):
No, exactly.
I just wrote a blog post aboutthis on LinkedIn and it was
talking about taking wellnessdays.
And it's like at work a lot oftimes like we take a sick day.
But a wellness day is a littlebit different, because you take
a wellness day before you getsick.
As soon as you start to realizelike you're feeling a little
bit off, whether you feeloverwhelmed or stressed or
you're just not feeling optimal,you take that time now before
(15:42):
you actually get sick, and sayyou know what?
I'm just gonna take a day toreset, because sometimes we just
need to reset, sometimes wejust need to pause.
And the other part of it issome people take a wellness day
just to enjoy life, like myhusband would take wellness days
well, he called them wellnessdays.
I need to sit at home and playXbox.
And at first I remember I waslike this is so immoral.
(16:04):
Like what are you doing?
Like you should be at work.
And he's like no, I just needto relax my mind.
And it took me a while.
But afterwards I actually sawhow it impacted his mood and him
having that time off to playX-MOS, which he really enjoyed.
It really did kind of give himthat kind of extra gust of
energy and I guess it's thesense of calm within himself
(16:25):
that he was like okay, I can goback to work now and I feel like
I've done something for myself.
And he would say like I'mgiving all these hours to my job
, like why shouldn't I be ableto reclaim some of that time for
myself?
So that really changed my wayof thinking and now I'm all for
those wellness days and I'm likeI think it's important that we
talk about this and that weencourage other people to take
(16:46):
them.
I think it's so great that yourwife is that kind of
accountability partner for youto say hey, I notice you don't
seem quite yourself.
You might need to just slowdown, because it's hard to see
when you're running, running,running, it's hard to notice
that you might be a little bitoff.
Maybe you're cranky, maybeyou're irritable.
You know, maybe you're makingmistakes, but the people around
(17:08):
you can be that support and justbe like you know.
I just want to check in, but Ithink that you might need to
pause.
You might need to take thattime, and it's really important
to listen to that instead ofjust saying no, no, no, I'm okay
, because what's going to happenis you eventually push yourself
too far and now you mightbecome ill, you might have
health concerns, you might be ina deeper ailment that's going
(17:30):
to take much longer to recoverfrom.
Richard Dodds (17:33):
Yeah, I always end up burning out.
But, like, just like yourhusband, I am an Xbox person and
it was times where I was in anunhealthy like relationship with
with the grind or the hustleculture to where I would I would
go and I would work my job andmaybe do a side job, maybe work
on a podcast, and I wouldliterally like work majority,
(17:54):
like 80% of my day and I'll playXbox for like an hour and then
I would like I would get in bedand like I feel bad, I play
games too long, and it's likeyou play games for like an hour,
calm down, it's okay.
And like it really took a longtime for me to break that Like
that.
Oh, like if I'm gaming I couldbe hustling, I could be doing
something else.
So it took a, it took a lot forme to break that mindset.
(18:16):
So, even like in thinking ofthat, like I think for you, like
from your story, it seems likeyou found out what your real
priority was in life and itwasn't working.
Like that's the working wasn'tyour priority, it was a means to
an end.
How can, how can, other peoplestart to find ways to prioritize
their, their health and theirmental health?
Natalie Mullin (18:37):
Yeah, I think it really starts with checking in
and seeing what are yourpriorities, like, what is the
most important thing to you?
What is the reason that keepsyou going and keeps you
motivated?
Why are you doing the thingsthat you're doing?
Right, because most people arenot really just working hard
just for the sake of makingmoney.
A lot of people are doing itfor their families or for their
(19:00):
loved ones, or because theythemselves are trying to maybe
get financial freedom orsomething like.
There's always like a deeperreason, and I think it's really
important to know what is thatdeeper reason.
What is that why?
Because once you know what yourwhy is, you can put it, you
know, you hold it there and yousay okay, this is my why.
Now I need to analyze thedecisions and the choices I'm
(19:20):
making with the, with theresources I have, whether time
or money, and see am Icontributing to my why or am I
taking away from and how am Ilike?
How are the two reconcilingeach other?
Right?
And so I think for a lot ofpeople, they just kind of need
to slow down and think how am Isupporting my why?
And I like to use this with myclients as a tool called JASP,
(19:42):
j-a-s-p, and so when you'remaking decisions for yourself,
right?
First I'll ask yourself does itbring you joy?
Is the thing that you're tryingto do?
Is it bringing you joy?
Is it in alignment?
That's the A is alignment.
Is it in alignment with thevalues you have for yourself and
for the future you want foryourself?
Because if it's not inalignment, then it's a no, then
(20:05):
the S is for sustainable.
Is what I'm doing sustainable?
Can you keep working 80% of theday?
The answer is no.
You are going to go lead toburnout or even worse, and
sometimes we think burnout isthe end of it.
It can be worse.
It can be very severe healthconsequences, it could be a
heart attack, it could be allsorts of things, or it could be
(20:25):
a lost relationship, like it wasat one point for me, right.
So, is it sustainable?
Are the things that you'redoing, are you saying yes to
everybody and everything, or areyou trying to do too much all
at once?
And I'm not saying like justdon't do anything and don't be
ambitious in life.
I'm an extremely ambitiousperson, but there is a time and
place and sometimes you have tosay, okay, I'm going to have to
(20:46):
slow down and I'm going to haveto do this now and then.
I'm going to do this then orI'm going to only allocate so
much time to this, but I'm goingto have a hard stop and when I
have a boundary over my time sothat I can still find time for
myself.
And then the P is about purpose.
Is this helping me fulfill thepurpose that I have in life?
Because I think a lot of peoplego around and they're just kind
(21:07):
of living life day to day, kindof on this hamster wheel, but
they don't feel any sense ofdeep meaning, like deep
fulfillment.
They don't feel like they'reactually doing things to
contribute to others, tocontribute to the world.
And I truly believe that we'reall here for a reason and I feel
like we're all here to helpeach other, lift each other up,
support each other.
And I think a lot of times whenpeople feel disconnected from
(21:29):
their purpose, it's becausethey're within their own selves,
they're within their shell,they're not using their gifts
and talents to kind of helpother people in the world.
And so, again, look at thatdecision.
Is this something that isleading me towards purpose or is
it leading me away from purpose?
So, jasp, j-a-s-p.
Joy, Alignment, sustainabilityand Purpose and that can help
(21:50):
you to make decisions, to betterset up your life in a way that
can be fulfilling for you.
Richard Dodds (21:57):
Yeah, I think that's so solid, that's such
good advice, like I like thatJASP.
I'm gonna have to write thatone down and use that one in my
own life.
So I think, like specificallywe kind of talked about it
before, talking about how, whenblack women prioritize
themselves, like it's a stigmaattached to it, what ways, how
(22:19):
can we start to change thatstigma and make it okay for I
mean not even just specificallyblack women, just because they
do so much for black families?
Natalie Mullin (22:31):
Yeah, honestly, it starts with what you tell
yourself.
At the end of the day, we aretaking on a lot of messages from
society and a lot of messagesfrom other people, their
expectations, what they thinkyou should be doing.
And I really believe indisruptive wellness, and
disruptive wellness is all aboutpushing back on society's
narrative of how you practicewellness for yourself.
(22:52):
You have to kind of honor yourown needs and recognize well,
this is what I need.
And along with recognizing whatyou need, you have to realize
that you're worth it.
And so for a lot of people,they have challenges putting
themselves first because theydon't think that they're worth
putting themselves first.
They don't think they'redeserving of that space.
And if you're in that place,you've got to shift your mindset
(23:12):
.
And I am telling you anybodywho's listening to this right
now you are worthy and you aredeserving and you don't need
anybody to tell you otherwise.
And if anybody has made youfeel incapable or not worthy,
not deserve it, that is a lie.
And you need to rest thosebeliefs down.
And you've got to believe itfor yourself.
And it might take some time,and I understand that, because
(23:33):
some people have really beenbeat down.
They've been, they've been toldtheir whole lives one thing
right.
A lot of this comes fromchildhood.
So if you grew up in a familyor you just had people when you
were younger, that kind of madeyou feel like you weren't worth
it.
It's a lot of years ofprogramming that you have to
undo, but every day you've gotto start telling yourself I'm
(23:54):
worth it, I'm deserving, I, Igood things should come to me.
And you know you've got tostart changing, changing your
brain and how your brain thinks,to believe that you're
deserving of it.
And then you need to just golive it out.
If you, if you think you'reworthy of something, then you
need the action to comealongside right, because there's
no point in thinking right.
(24:15):
We see a lot of women who like,oh, I'm worth this, I'm worth
that, and then they get togetherwith somebody who treats them
like Josh and it's like okay,well, your actions don't match
your words here, so the two needto go together.
So if you think you're worthyand deserving, how would you
treat a person who is worthy anddeserving?
If you think you're a queen wewant to use the word queens and
kings in our community how woulda queen act?
(24:37):
How would a queen take care ofherself?
Where would a queen physicallyplace herself?
How would a queen dress?
How would a queen, you know,restore her own self?
How would a queen allow peopleto talk to her?
How would a queen monitoraccess of who who can get to her
, right?
And so it's like we've got toestablish boundaries and
(24:59):
practices that are going to besupportive of the person that we
want to be.
They have to be in alignmentwith each other, and I think the
the last point I'll say on thisis about being in community.
I think you've got to be aroundpeople who talk the same talk
and walk the same walk that youwant for yourself, right?
So you know that phrase birdsof a feather flock together.
(25:21):
So if you see yourself on acertain level and the people
around you are not on that samelevel and they're not trying to
get there either, I'm not sayingyou have to fully cut them off,
but you might need to distanceyourself more and you might need
to find other people who arelike-minded and are going the
place that you want to go andare treating themselves the way
(25:42):
that you want to treat yourself,right?
So if you are a person whowants to elevate yourself.
Maybe you want to.
You know, just spend time withyourself.
And self-care doesn't have to beabout money.
I really want to talk aboutthat too, because sometimes
we're thinking self-care is like, oh, I got my nails done.
Or oh, I went for a massage,and everybody has different
(26:05):
financial situations.
And also you could be gettingyour hair done and your nails
done and still be extremelydepressed and unwell inside and
it's just for show or it's justoutward things.
But when I think of wellness,I'm really thinking about the
state of mind, like, are youcontent with who you are as a
person?
Are you content with how youshow up in the world, how you
live out your day to day actions?
(26:25):
And if you can, then you arehonoring your own well-being,
right?
We?
Nature is out there.
We can just take a walk in thepark.
We can take a walk down thestreet and breathe in the air.
That is free and that can be aform of self-care.
We can close our eyes and takea nap.
I am all about an app, okay,and that can be, because it's
giving yourself permission torot.
So I never want people to thinkthat self-care has to be going
(26:48):
and buying fancy bags and youknow our community, sometimes I
don't know, I don't know why butpeople like sometimes it hurts
me.
This materialism thing comes andwe talk about this soft life
and it becomes a showy thing andagain it's like but are you,
are you happy with the personyou are inside?
Like we have to really kind oflook inside, find the people
(27:10):
that are like-minded, that canencourage you and support you
and be like okay, we are goingtowards this version of wellness
, this version of whatever it is, that aligns with the version
that you have for yourself.
Richard Dodds (27:24):
Yeah, it is like it's funny.
We always I feel like I talkabout it so much as we do tend
to be showy and like, especiallylike social media doesn't help
at all just because you can putout a front, and so many times I
have seen people like put out afront and then when you
actually talk to them and youyou get to them on a personal
level, they're really just superdepressed and it's just so sad
(27:44):
to see you hate it.
That's why you got to check inon your friends, with who you
think they're strong.
You got to check in on themfriends, Make sure that they're
doing well, because sometimesthey go through stuff and you
can't even tell from the outsidelooking in.
Natalie Mullin (27:55):
Yeah, and you have to get to a place of
vulnerability too, becausesometimes you check in on your
friends and they're holding backright, and so they're like oh
yeah, everything's good, LikeI'm great, Everything is right.
But sometimes you have to pusha little bit and be like no,
like really, how are you?
But also you have to lead withthat too right, Like you can't
just expect people to open up toyou if you're not willing to
(28:17):
open up to them.
And I'm not a person who's likego talk your business to
everybody, because that's nothelpful.
But if you can find a few closefriends and just be like no,
it's okay.
We're really going to form aspace of honesty that when we
come together we're going to behonest and if things have hit
the fan, then we're going to saythings have hit the fan or like
I'm not feeling good, I feellike there's pressure, I feel
(28:40):
like I can't perform, I feellike I'm an imposter, I feel I'm
inadequate, I feel like thecards are stacked up against me.
Whatever it is you want to findwhether it's one, two, three
people that you can truly bejust your honest, open,
vulnerable self with, and thatthose people are going to take
your words and hold them in asafe space and support you,
(29:01):
because sometimes you're honestwith people and that their
response is not helpful, they'relike, oh well, that's your
fault and they're just blamingyou.
And you're like this is not,this is not helpful, Right.
And so I see that a lot.
I see people.
They put their trust in thewrong people and so the people
that they talk to all they do istear them down even more, and
that is not helpful to anybody.
So you got to find people whoare going to lift you up, who
(29:24):
are going to support you, and ifyou don't have those people in
your life because some peoplehonestly don't I would say to
like try to start listening toother positive people out there
and just pretend they're yourfriends, Like right.
Like go on a podcast, go onYouTube, go read a book of
people that you feel like areliving the kind of life that
you'd like and listen to thestories that they went through.
(29:45):
Sometimes I find it likehelpful to just listen to people
who go on through some really,really, really hard stuff,
because a, it's like okay, I'mnot alone, but B, it's like if
you see how they were able tokind of come out of their own
mess and build resilience orwhatever.
You can take ideas from them asyou're still looking for your
community of support.
(30:06):
But like, don't stay isolated,Because when you stay isolated,
all you do is talk to yourselfand no matter what.
Like, our negative self talk isso, so, so strong, even if we're
trying to be a positive person.
The negative like almost alwayswins and it's like they're
battling each other, but like,the negative is just strong.
So you've got to find ways tobuild up that, those positive
(30:29):
voices, those positiveinfluences in your life, so that
you can cling to them,especially when you don't feel
like you have that faith inyourself or you don't feel like
you have that belief.
And that's why it's good forother people, Because other I
know when I was at my lowest, Ihad nothing.
I was just empty, empty, broken, broken.
But the people around me wouldbe like Natalie, you can do this
(30:51):
, Natalie, you're going to getthrough this.
Natalie, life is not over Like.
And they just kept pouring thattruth into me While I truly
felt like I was at the bottom ofa pit, until I eventually was
able to take their words andkind of lean on their strength
and and and move forward.
Richard Dodds (31:08):
Yeah, I think that that's all like.
That's very good advice.
It's just, yeah, community isso important like humans weren't
meant to be alone.
I feel like as technology grows, and I mean especially after
COVID, so many of us sectionourselves off and isolate.
It's so, and it's like I'm notgoing to say my, but someone
who's been around like beforethe internet was really like a
(31:30):
thing thing.
You know what I mean.
I know right.
Well, like the way makingfriends is so much harder now.
It used to be.
You would make friendseverywhere, like at church, at
school, like just going to thegrocery market, and it's like so
much like we do not speak toeach other anymore, we don't do
stuff.
It's like you really have to bereally intentional when trying
(31:52):
to make friends.
Now, Like, since I've leftcollege, I can't even think of
like outside of maybe like acouple or a handful of people.
I can't even think of any newpeople that I've met that I
would really consider a friendthat I did not meet, like in
college or at work.
You know what I mean.
And sometimes you do want thatseparation, so it's even hard to
like try to be friends withpeople you are with.
(32:14):
So community is important.
Natalie Mullin (32:17):
Community is important and I feel for
everyone.
And you know what, like workingremotely for those who do it,
like that doesn't help in a lotof ways too.
And also, I think, just as weage, like I think about that too
.
I think a lot of the friendsthat I have are from when I was
younger, and whether at churchor from school university, same
thing.
Like after that, it kind of waslike oh okay, well, we're just
(32:40):
kind of done.
But then some of those peopleyou just kind of fall out of
touch with, especially whenpeople move or just life
circumstances change, and so youreally do have to be
intentional and put yourself outthere.
And this is where I would say,though, quality over quantity,
because there gets no point.
Like I'm at a point right nowwhere I have a bandwidth that's
(33:02):
pretty backstabbed, so I can, Ican't really accept too much
more friends in my life.
Anyways, I just don't have thetime to keep up with them in the
way that I would like to.
You know what I mean like to bea good friend.
So at this point I'm like, okay, who are the people that are
close to me that I know, that Ican commit to regularly check in
on them and that I can receivethe energy that they have.
Because as a friend it's a giveand take relationship, right,
(33:24):
it's reciprocal, and you have tobe a good friend for people,
which means sometimes you'relistening to their hard
difficulties and troubles andtrials and I can't take on all
too much of that.
So I have, I just have to know,like what, what I can
emotionally handle and because Ihave a young son too, right, so
he, he just takes a lot out ofme Like.
(33:44):
okay, I'm more cognizant now.
I just don't have the same.
I can't be on the phone tilltwo, am talking with people
about there.
I just can't do it.
I just need to sleep first ofall, like, I just need to sleep,
but I have to have energy forfor my son, because obviously
he's the priority.
So I think when you're lookingfor friends, man like, and I
don't have a specific like, oh,this is the best advice, but you
(34:07):
do have to put yourself outthere to try to find people,
because I do not think we aremeant to live in isolation, just
like you said, and I think itis so important for our well
being to be in a relationshipwith other people, not just
romantic relationships, becauseI see some people who their
significant other is likethey're gone, it's like they're
there and all and be all, andthat is putting entirely too
(34:29):
much pressure on that otherperson and that person cannot be
it for all.
People Like I cannot meet allmy husband's needs.
My husband cannot meet all myneeds.
Right, like you've got to, yougot to spread the load.
You've got to have some otherpeople available to you and so
you've got to see, like, how canyou put yourself in communities
or spaces where you mightattract like minded people and
(34:51):
hopefully you have something incommon.
Like you know, if you're apodcaster, maybe you buddy up
with another podcaster, maybeyou go to a networking event or
something.
Or if you like sports, maybeyou join a team and then hope
you might find a friend that waywith work.
Yeah, I understand that,because sometimes you're like oh
, you know what, I'm good withyou.
Richard Dodds (35:09):
Like we could go for a drink, but then that's
where it's got to stop Right,like sometimes and you've got to
see, you've got like.
Natalie Mullin (35:14):
I have some good friends from work and others.
I'm like Remember I had itsomeone and I was like, oh,
please don't message me on myInstagram.
Like.
Richard Dodds (35:20):
I try to keep this professional.
Natalie Mullin (35:22):
Like I try to keep my personal and
professional separate.
But you've just got to findways and even put it out there.
Sometimes I would, literally Iwould tell my hairdresser I'm
like, oh my God, I'm just tryingto find some friends, like some
, some new friends that werekind of headed in the direction
of where I wanted to get.
I would just kind of put it outthere in the atmosphere you
could do vision boarding or justwrite it down journal.
(35:43):
But like you have to, you haveto identify what you want.
Like you need to know what youwant and you need to put it out
there so you can attract thoseright people to you in the first
place.
But it's not about having tonsand tons of friends, it's about
having that core group that youknow you can rely on, that
you're there for them andthey're there for you.
Richard Dodds (36:03):
Yeah, that's all good points.
I think a lot of them, like alot of my good friends some of
them I don't even get to talk toall the time and I think like a
great sign of like a greatfriend is that you guys might
not talk for a couple of yearsand you see each other and say,
hey, how you been Like blah,blah blah and you talk like you
never lost touch and that's howyou know that you have like a
really good, true bond with thatperson.
(36:23):
Just because you think aboutyou talk.
If you get, you got a job andthen you get.
If you get married, you havekids, like everything that like
you families, like your parentstrying to keep in like that
stuff going.
Like even when I was like asingle man, like just working a
job and like doing whatever elseI did, it was hard to keep up
with people.
It was like now like married,like I'm trying to make sure my
(36:47):
household is in order, so it'sjust a lot more so it's like I
always appreciate.
Like those two friends is likewe haven't seen each other in
two years, but if you saw ustalking you wouldn't be able to
tell, just because if they needsomething, they can hit me up
and I'm there for them and viceversa, I'm always there and it's
a reciprocal thing, like yousaid, and I don't expect
anything from them that Iwouldn't provide to them on the
(37:08):
same level.
And I think that's an importantpart, because sometimes
friendships can be very onesided.
Like they, they're there, likethey can come when you, when you
need them, when they need you,I'm here, but you need them, and
then they don't want to listenand that's not really a
friendship.
And I was going to say anything.
It's like be careful of onesided relationships, whether
(37:30):
it's like a, like a sexualrelationship or like whether
it's a friendship.
Like, just be very careful withone sided relationships.
If you're not getting somethingout of it, just either
intrinsically or one way oranother, then that might not.
You might need to reevaluatethat friendship, because that
might be one of the thingsthat's causing you stress and
pulling you down 100%.
Natalie Mullin (37:52):
And I think people need to do those
check-ins.
And I think sometimes too, likepeople, especially black women,
like we really believe in thisidea of potential, right, and
we're like, oh my gosh,especially with, like a
significant other romanticrelationship, like, oh, but this
person has so much potential,and so they just keep giving,
giving to give their all to thisperson, that person.
(38:12):
They give nothing back to thembut a headache, okay, but they
still keep going and it's like,no, we do have to pause and do
that, check it and be like am Ibeing treated the way that I
want to be treated?
And this is why it comes backto alignment.
And you have to know what youwant for yourself and you have
to know what are you deservingof and what are you going to
maintain as your standard,because what you set as the
(38:34):
standard is exactly what you'regoing to attract.
So if your standard is way downat the bottom, well, that is
what is coming to you.
If your standard is way here atthe top, that's what's going to
come to you, and if anythingelse that doesn't match the
standard comes to you, you'regoing to be like, oh no, sorry,
you just you know me.
So, um, reciprocity is soimportant.
I think we're just in a selfishtime where people are just
(38:55):
about like me, me, me.
I remember I had this friend andit's like I don't know what
happened, but she just kind ofchanged and all of a sudden it's
like anytime something negativewas going on in her life and
she wanted support, messaging medown oh my gosh, this is this.
Of course I'm a supportiveperson.
I'm like oh man, I'm so sorry.
Here's encouragement, here'sthis.
Then you don't hear from heragain.
(39:16):
All of a sudden.
Next next thing comes up in herlife.
All of a sudden she's back.
And so it's like sometimesyou're like wait, I'm noticing a
pattern here.
When I just reach out to you tosay hi, you're not even
responding.
Richard Dodds (39:28):
Don't even respond back Right.
Natalie Mullin (39:30):
Like I'm like this is, this is no, so it's
just a no.
And you've got to know whenyou've got to walk away from
whether a friendship, arelationship, a partnership that
is not mutually beneficialBecause all it will do is, if
you were the giver, you're goingto become jaded eventually and
that's that's not the goal.
You want to be in relationshipwith people who make you feel
(39:53):
good and where you feelappreciated, where you feel
respected.
And I completely agree withwhat you said about like yeah, I
have those friends too.
I might not see them for acouple of years.
And you see them and you'relike, oh my gosh.
And like sometimes I don't evenrealize it's been so long.
Like in my mind, I'm like, oh,we just talked the other day.
And then I'll look up myWhatsApp and I'll be like, oh,
2021, like for real, my bad.
(40:14):
Like you know but it's okay,because when we come back
together, not only are we good,but I feel like I can still be
my full, authentic self.
And I think it's so importantto be around people that you can
just be you.
You don't have to havepretenses, you don't have to
watch what you're saying, youcan just come as you are.
They accept you for who you arethe good and the bad because we
(40:35):
all have, you know, pros andcons to us and you can just be.
I think that alone is supportsyour well-being.
When you can just be aroundfriends, that you can just be
chill and just be who you are, Ithink is very freeing and very
powerful too.
Richard Dodds (40:50):
No, I totally agree with that.
And it's funny because eventhinking about cutting off
friends is like I can't rememberfriendships, that in whether
you end on my weather, they endon my, whatever happens.
And it's like thinking of likeone of the takeout, Like I was
so devastated when we decidedthat we weren't going to be
friends anymore.
But in those coming weeks Ifelt so much peace, just because
I didn't realize what thatperson had constantly been
(41:12):
putting on me, like thenegativity and the things that
came along with it.
I felt like at one point in mylife I lost a bunch of friends
at the same time for variousreasons and I was like man, I
feel so much lighter in it.
It's like not even to be cheesy,but it's like a Drake song
where he says like he's beenlosing friends and fighting
peace, and it's like I kind oflike I kind of understand that
lyric in a real way, Cause it'slike I've lost some friends, I
(41:34):
found peace and it's crazy thatyou would think that like losing
a friend would be sodevastating, but it's a time and
a place and sometimes that timepasses and that friend is no
longer a friend in the way thatyou, or maybe they can't support
you in a way that they needsupport, Cause we all are
changing and growing and we'renot always changing and growing
together.
Natalie Mullin (41:54):
And that's it.
And it doesn't have to be likea bad thing, like do you know
what I mean?
Like it can just be like listen, for the time we were friends,
for the time we were in arelationship, for the time
whatever it was good.
And now we're just walking twodifferent paths.
I wish you all the best.
I'm going here, you're goingthere.
There's no hard feeling.
You know what I mean, because Ithink sometimes people are
clinging, they're holding on tosomething that needs to die.
(42:16):
Like they just need to let that.
Whatever the relationship isgoing on, they just go and
they're holding on to it and allthey're doing is causing
themselves more stress andheartache.
And if they would get to apoint where they can say you
know what, I released this, theywould find that same piece that
you're talking about.
But not everybody is like okay,making that choice, and I think
(42:38):
it's out of fear, like they'rejust fear of the unknown right,
like they don't know what lifelooks like if they don't have
that person in their life.
But you just have to say look,what do I deserve?
Am I deserving of peace?
Am I deserving of joy?
Am I deserving of just a stressfree life or just maybe a more
uplifting life, like sometimesit's just like the vibe, like
people are pulling you down andyou're like I'm trying to go
higher.
So I just I just got to do whatI got to do.
(43:01):
But this is when you got to putyourself first and you say, like
, again, I have to put myselffirst.
What do I need to become theperson that I want to become, or
to get closer?
Do you know what I mean?
As you said, we're alwaysevolving, we're always growing.
So you've got to be thinking inthat forward kind of journey
and not everybody is meant to beon all parts of the journey
(43:23):
with you and, as I said, you canrespect them.
Maybe, like for this part ofthe journey it's been real, it's
been great and I'm grateful.
I'm so grateful for this time.
Richard Dodds (43:32):
Yeah.
Natalie Mullin (43:33):
I got to keep, I got to keep moving, you're
going to stay, or sometimes theygo the other way and that's OK.
And I think when I finallyaccepted that because I was that
Klinger I was like, oh no, I'mgoing to be with everybody
forever.
And you know, it was hard.
I remember, even inrelationships where I should
break up with a person, I justwas like, no, I just can't, I'll
(43:53):
make it work.
Richard Dodds (43:53):
Break up with me or I'll make it work because you
know.
Natalie Mullin (43:57):
And then after I'm like but I'm not happy, Like
why am I doing this to myself?
And then eventually you kind ofget that confidence and you're
like no, I know what I deserve,or I know what I'm worth and I
know where I'm headed, and soI'm going to have to make some
tough decisions and get goingwith it.
Richard Dodds (44:16):
Yeah, that's.
I feel like that's how italways is.
It's just it's really hard.
I mean, it's hard to change,and even when you think about
relationships, I always think ofit as a competitive thing.
It's like you don't want tolose.
It's like I can make this workand it's like why are you
spending so much time trying tomake this failing thing work?
Why not find something thatworks without you having to
(44:38):
change who you are?
Because, whether it's arelationship or romantic
relationship or just afriendship, if you can't be
yourself around that person,then it's not going to be.
It's not something that'ssustainable.
When you go back to your, toyour uh, yeah, is it?
J J, J J A S.
P yeah, yeah when you're like isthat, as is this, sustainable?
(45:00):
And it's like if you're notbeing yourself, it's only so
much either you're going tocompletely change who you are
and that'll probably alienatepeople in your life, or is this
not going to be sustainable, andthat is just.
I think that's something thatthat a lot of people end up
contending with.
Natalie Mullin (45:14):
Yeah, no, I 100% agree and you just have to.
Sometimes in life you have tomake hard decisions Like that's
just what it is.
It's not like it's easysometimes to to walk away from a
relationship or to endsomething like.
I'm very empathetic to that,especially when maybe you saw
this as your future right andyou only saw it going a certain
way.
And it's not.
Or you just been, you've justbeen friends with someone for a
(45:37):
really long time and you haveall of that history.
But again, what do you want foryour own self?
Because you're holding your ownself back.
It's like you're robbing yourown self of future joy.
But it's because we don'tbelieve that there's better for
us.
Sometime, like we think like,nah, I just got to hold on to
what I have right now.
It's like a scarcity mentality.
(45:57):
It's like, well, I don't thinkthere's enough out there for me,
I don't think there's betterout there for me.
So I'm just going to cling tothe little I have and try to
make it work.
But not only are you trying tomake it work, you're actually
miserable at the same time.
So it's counterproductive in inalways.
Not like you're trying to makeit work and you're happy Like no
, like when you're forcingsomething, it's never good,
(46:18):
right?
If you, if you have a banana,it's not ripe and you, you try
to force right.
But or do it with mangoes.
It never tastes as good as ifit just ripened on its own.
So if it is not naturallycoming to be, you just need to
let it go, and sometimes itcomes back to you, right?
Richard Dodds (46:32):
Sometimes it does yeah.
Natalie Mullin (46:34):
And sometimes it doesn't.
And you just got to be open andjust trust that the universe
has that God, whoever youbelieve in, has something better
out there for you and that ifyou are deserving of it and you
put yourself out there, youattract that good to you.
But you've got to believe thatyou're worth it and you've got
to believe that it's out therefor you and you've got to.
And you cannot receive if yourhands are closed.
(46:56):
You know what I mean.
If you're holding on towhatever it is you're holding on
to, how are you supposed to getthe new stuff?
You've got to let it go, haveyour hands open and then you can
receive what's there for you.
Richard Dodds (47:06):
That's such a great point.
We talked about this before andwhen we've spoken before and
it's like your podcast titlefrom a full cup.
It's like I just I love that,because there's so many times
you can't pour from an empty cup.
But I just wanted to talk toyou and I wanted to ask you what
does from a full cup mean foryou?
Natalie Mullin (47:25):
Yeah, so for me, from a full cup is the goal.
Like we say we can't pour froman empty cup, and people just
kind of leave it at that oh, Ican't pour from an empty cup,
and it's like, okay.
So if we can't pour from anempty cup, it means that we need
to fill our cups.
So we need to be intentionalagain, put in that practice, put
in that auction of pouring backinto ourselves and Managing our
(47:50):
well-being, managing ourself-care, managing our need, so
that we're not running on theempty.
So it's like what are you doingto proactively pour back into
yourself?
How are you becoming a betterperson?
How are you meeting your ownneeds?
How are you taking care ofyourself so that you can show up
for others?
And it's like for me, it's notfrom a selfish place, right,
(48:12):
like a lot of people are like ohwell, self-care is selfish and
oh, you can't remember, from anempty cup.
I remember I heard this personsay I'm just going to have my
cup full and leave it and I waslike oh, okay, like for me
that's not, that's not what Ithink.
I think that, like, I want mycup to be full so that from the
overflow I'm able to helpeverybody else around me.
(48:32):
I'm able to serve everybodyelse around me.
I'm not a selfish person.
I want to give, but I cannotgive and just have nothing for
myself.
I want to have so much in me.
I want to be so happy, sojoyful, so peaceful, so patient,
so abundant.
I can give, give, give toeverybody else and we can all be
filling our cups together.
You know, like that, like Ithink it's at a wedding where
(48:55):
you would have like thatchampagne glass and they pour it
in the first glass and it runsout right, real fancy stuff.
That's what I want, like I wantto be that top cup and like I'm
full and it's like tricklingdown and we're and this is how
we get to a collective wellness.
And I was just talking tosomebody about this on a podcast
the other day and it was likewe think about our own
individual wellbeing, but are wethinking about the collective
(49:15):
wellbeing?
Because, at the end of the day,if I'm good but my family isn't
good, my friends aren't good,my neighbors, the strangers
across the street aren't good,am I really good?
Like how are we all movingforward?
And again I said like I feellike our society is very selfish
, but if we could take a pause,there is something to be said
about the collective wellbeingand I think we really understood
(49:36):
it during COVID, because Ithink that was one of the few
times in life where you feltlike you felt when other people
were unwell, whether emotionally, physically, like you were so
connected to what was happeningin everybody else's households.
And I think we need to keep thecollective wellbeing at the
forefront, even like in aworkplace environment.
It's like you might be here,like, oh, I'm good and I'm doing
(49:59):
my work and it's like, well,your coworkers are stressed and
burnt out, like, are you goingto lend a hand, are you going to
offer, if you can, to supportthem?
Because it doesn't.
It doesn't work for the team,like, and I think sometimes we
think we're all disconnectedfrom each other, but I think
we're like, like, like humanity,we're a team, like we need to
play together, we need tosupport each other.
(50:19):
Just like what you said aboutcommunity, we need to care about
each other.
And it's like what is the pointof me just being well, all on my
own and like you're hurtingover there, like, surely there
might be something that is in me, a gift, a talent, a skill that
I have that I can use tosupport you, to encourage you,
instead of just like being badall by myself?
(50:41):
Well, that's not, that's notthe goal for me.
So I just think that if we canget to a place where our cups
are full, we can better act outour purpose, better live out our
purpose in life and live thatmeaningful life, because I
really do believe we're allmeant to live full, abundant,
(51:01):
thriving lives and our cups haveto be full to do that.
So we have to be intentionalabout that and then we have to
realize our cup is not just fullfor ourselves, so that we can
serve others, be there forothers and together as a
collective, we can lift eachother up.
Richard Dodds (51:19):
That's so well said.
Well, thank you for coming onthe show.
I really appreciate talking toyou.
Natalie Mullin (51:25):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
It's a great conversation.
Richard Dodds (51:29):
So, again, I'd like to thank Natalie for coming
on the show.
If you'd like to learn moreabout her or her podcast from a
full cup, I'll make sure I leavethat information in the show
notes.
Still Talking Black is a CrownCulture and Media LLC production
.
You can find out more about theshow at stilltalkingblackcom,
but until then, keep talking.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.