March 25, 2023 • 56 mins
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Lisa and Emmy Award Winning Director Producer Michael Spiller chat about life, work and believing that anything can happen when you take healthy creative risks and get out of your comfort zone.
- How fear of embarrassment gets in the way of growth
- the importance of clarity, communication and collaboration
- leading by example with vulnerability
- creating safe spaces to create
- stepping out of your comfort zone
Michael Spiller won both an Emmy and a DGA award for his directing work on TV’s Modern Family. He launched his successful directing career after years of working as a director of photography on high-profile feature films, documentaries, commercials, and music videos. After getting his first directing work on HBO’s Sex and The City, he moved to Los Angeles and continued to direct some of the hottest shows on TV. His credits include over twenty episodes of Modern Family and Scrubs, as well as multiple episodes of The New Girl, Don’t Trust The B—- in Apt 23, The Middle, Cougartown, Bernie Mac, as well as directing the pilots for Jake in Progress and Big Day and serving as a supervising producer on those series. He was the executive producer/director for the critically-acclaimed series, The Mindy Project. Other work includes Ugly Betty, Life as We Know It and the HBO series Big Love. And one of my personal favorites - Firefly Lane.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lisa Hopkins (00:00):
This is the stop time podcast. I'm your host,
Lisa Hopkins, and I'm here toengage you in thought provoking
motivational conversationsaround practicing the art of
living in the moment. I'm acertified life coach, and I'm
excited to dig deep and offerinsights into embracing who we
are and where we are at.
(00:24):
So my next guest was raised inBrooklyn, New York, and he
followed a lifelong love ofmovies and television to SUNY
Purchase, where he received aBFA in film. Working his way up
on the onset crew ladder in NewYork City after graduation, he
eventually led to a successfulcareer as a cinematographer. He
(00:47):
shot theatrical featuresepisodic TV, documentaries,
commercials and music videos allover the globe. After serving as
dp on the first season of HBOsucks in the city. He launched
his directing career in seasontwo, and went on to direct seven
episodes of the series beforemoving to LA in 2001. And
hanging up his light meters tofocus on directing full time. He
(01:10):
continued to direct some of themost successful comedies on TV.
His credits include more than 20episodes each of modern family
in scrubs as well as multipleepisodes of Get ready superstar
blackish mix mixed here's thenew girl the middle Cougar Town,
Bernie Mac, don't trust the B inApartment 23 and Better Off Ted.
(01:31):
His hour long work includeswhiskey Cavalier, AJ and the
Queen good girls Big Love andfive episodes of Ugly Betty. He
was the pilot and series maindirector for the ABC series Jake
and Progress and Big Day anddirected the pilot and executive
produced champions with MindyKaling and Charlie grandi. He
(01:52):
was the executive producerdirector on The Mindy Project
for all six seasons, anddirected 30 of the 116 episodes
of the series in 2011, for hisdirection of the series Modern
Family. He won both an Emmy anda DGA award for the Halloween
episode and was nominated for aDGA award again in 2012 for the
(02:14):
Express Christmas episode forthe same series. He sits on the
DGA creative rights committeeconsults on NBC female, forward
and emerging director program.
And he's on the Board ofGovernors for the Television
Academy representing thedirectors peer group. He is also
one of the founding members andprincipal instructors of DGA
first time episodic directorsclasses. Post COVID. He has
(02:35):
served as executive producer,director on three shows all
shooting in Vancouver, the firstseason of the Mighty Ducks game
changers for Disney, or Disneyplus the final 16 episodes of
Firefly lane, my favorite fornext Netflix and he launched so
helped me Todd for CBS beforefinally returning home to LA. It
(02:56):
is with pleasure that Iintroduce you all to Michael
Spiller. Michael, welcome.
Michael Spiller (03:05):
Thank you, Lisa. It is it was very
interesting hearing that readback I have lots of edits I want
to make sure including my myreading of it, probably it was a
cold read. So that was the bestpart of it.
Lisa Hopkins (03:19):
No, it's great.
It's great to get to know you.
And as we were saying pre show,like, you know, this came in a
little bit late, but it was funfor me to sort of discover you
in real time, which you know, Imean, we're called Stop Time
Live in the moment. So gottawalk that talk. Right?
Michael Spiller (03:33):
Exactly. I don't want you to be over
prepared.
Lisa Hopkins (03:36):
God forbid, God forbid, so many questions for
you. You must do you love whatyou do.
Michael Spiller (03:41):
I do love what I do, I think you have to to do
this work. I mean, my work isprimarily on television and film
set and has been for almost 40years. And if you don't love it,
you're probably not going tothrive. And you're not going to
have a good time. And, you know,the secret for me is I would do
(04:04):
most of this stuff for free.I'mreally glad they pay me butI'm,
I'm sort of the happiest whenI'm working which is something
I'm working on. Because youdon't work all the time. And and
the downtime is something thatI'm looking at how I address
(04:25):
that in my own life.
Lisa Hopkins (04:26):
Oh, that's really interesting. Thanks for sharing
that. It's it's funny becausewell, let me let me challenge
that a little bit. Just rightoff the top. Let's just jump in.
Well, I'm curious because do youreally believe that when you're
not working, you're not working?
Like you're a creative person,right?
Michael Spiller (04:43):
I am but I'm, I'm not necessarily like a great
self generator of work. Youknow, there are many peers of
mine who, when they'reunemployed, they're out there
working the global room takingmeetings or developing stories
(05:04):
or contacting writers and tryingto build their own thing. And
I've just never been graded thatI enjoy it the few times that
I've done that, and working withwriters, I really do enjoy that
on projects in development. ButI don't, I'm just not great at
generating that. So,you know, usually what happens
(05:57):
is, I stress for a couple ofweeks, and then I get a job, and
I'm like, Oh, my God, wait,there's so many things I want to
do, you know, around the house,or take a vacation with my wife
or, you know, go out to dinnerand all these other things. And,
you know, I've fallen into thattrap. I fell into that trap sort
of early in my career, and it'sbeen a process to try and get
(06:18):
out of that.
Lisa Hopkins (06:21):
Yeah. And when you have a track record like yours,
right, there's kind of a certainI don't know, self expectation,
as well, as, you know, Can I doit again? What is it for you?
What, what, what's prominent inyour mindset? Is it? I should do
it again, I need to do more,what's next? Or how the hell did
I do that? Can I do it again?
Right?
Michael Spiller (06:42):
Well, I mean, there's, there's some of all of
those things and bouncing aroundin my head. You know, I think,
like a lot of people in thisline of work, I definitely
wrestle with some degree of, youknow, for lack of a better
phrase, impostor syndrome. And,you know, just, I'm very self
critical and insecure. And Igenerally don't project that on
(07:07):
set. And when I'm on set, I'mnot feeling that way. For the
most part, butit's the downtimes when you
know, that I'm never going towork again, creeps in or the, oh
my god, I'm a fraud, and theyfound out, someone's going to
tap me on the shoulder and say,I'm sorry, we need that. Bet me
back. And, you know, it's, and Iknow, that's not true. You know,
(07:30):
I know that you can't survive inthis business for as long as I
have. By, you know, by accident.
So, you know, that that's partof the game that I play with
myself, and allowing those fearsto creep in, you know, can
(07:51):
overtake common sense and, andhistorical, tangible references.
So that's, you know, and that'ssomething I talked to a lot of
young people and up and comingdirectors about, too, is just,
you know, what is your tolerancefor uncertainty in your life,
(08:13):
because you can have a verygradual success or, or no
success, and then suddenly a bigsuccess, and then it drops off
or anything in between. And, youknow, there's a number there's,
in almost every professionallife in this line of work,
you're going to experience a dryspell. And what you do during
(08:34):
that time is very telling, andthe better you can do it, the
longer you'll survive.
Lisa Hopkins (08:42):
Well, it's interesting to it has been sort
of the thrust of what we weretold by our mentors. And it's
interesting because the wordsurvive keeps coming up, right,
if you want to survive, if youwant fame, fame caught, you
know, and it's funny that we setourselves up for these things.
Because, yes, it is true. Imean, through discernment, we
understand that. It's notsteady, right? And all of that,
(09:05):
but when we program our brainsto think, thank God, I survived.
You know, I mean, the other sideof that is, how lucky am I that
I've, you know, been able tomake a living doing what I love
to do not, you know, you knowwhat I mean? That's a totally
different mindset saying thesame thing. But the the idea
that you needed to survive. Imean, imagine surviving life
(09:26):
without passion.
I don't know, you know what, Imean, I'd be implied Yeah, using
survive, I think, is somethingthat might be useful to be
shifted in our mindsets of abouthow we approach stuff. What do
you think?
Michael Spiller (09:42):
No, I think so.
I mean, I guess,survive might be a little strong
and thrive. You know, postpandemic, the advice for what
it's worth that I give my kidsis, I tell them repeatedly. I
honestly don't care. They'reboth in college. Just like I
honestly don't care what youstudy, I just want you to find
something you're passionateabout, and do it, I don't care
(10:07):
if you're gonna make a lot ofmoney, I don't care if there's
going to be three letters oranything after your name. Just
find something you love to do.
You know, it's that age oldadage of, if you love what you
do, you'll never work a day inyour life. And that is the way I
feel, I know that I work veryhard. But, you know, for better
(10:30):
or worse, I am at my happiest.
When I'm working, when I'msurrounded by, you know, every
film crew all over the worldI've ever worked with, are all
are all flavors and the same,you know, variations like
they're just there's a specifictype of person that that loves
this lifestyle. Yeah, this sortof uncertain transient, ever
(10:53):
changing, never dull lifestyle.
You know, there were like modernday carnies? I think some
extent, and those are my people.
Lisa Hopkins (11:07):
Yeah. That's cool.
There's a culture that you'respeaking to, right, which, which
is familiar, and exciting. Andcollaborative, right? So when
you jump in, you know that thoseare going to be elements that
exist, no matter what theproject, right, no matter what
story you're telling, and it'snot, if I'm hearing you
correctly, it sounds like thataspect is key to why you keep
doing it again, again, becauseat least you know, the baseline,
(11:30):
right, whether it fails doesn'tfail or whatever, you're gonna
get that right.
Michael Spiller (11:36):
Yeah, I mean, there's, there's things that are
consistent on every project.
Yeah, you know, to some degree,you know, you're telling a
story, and there's going to bedifferent people involved to
have certain responsibilities,and you know, how you choose to
interact with them, and how youpresent yourself. And, you know,
particularly in television, youknow, some speaking of big
(11:58):
generalities. And in the worldof episodic television, the role
of the director is quitedifferent than many other
arenas, you know, feature filmsor a play or something like
that. It's like the directorshas a different role. So the
director of really, an episodictelevision really needs to
(12:18):
collaborate as a guest. And, youknow, they need to be a leader
and have some ideas. But they'realso telling one chapter of an
ongoing story that has manythings established already. And
the people that are there day inand day out, know, a lot more
about the mechanics, thepolitics, the intricacies of the
(12:40):
characters. Yeah, then you do.
So if you've walked in expectingthat, you know, everyone's just
gonna listen to your brilliantapproach to everything, and
you're not going to involve themin the creative decisions,
you're probably going to have ahard time. And coming from the
(13:01):
crew side of the equation, Iknow that so well. And I think
one thing that I can bring to aproject, both as a guest
director, and as a producingdirector on the show where I'm
working with other directors, isa deep connection and respect
and bond with the crew. So theyknow I've got their back. And I
(13:24):
care about their input. And Iwant to hear their ideas. And
when everyone is engaged thatway, there are a few places more
exciting, I think, becauseanything can happen. You know,
it takes a lot of hearts andminds and ideas and visions, and
healthy risks, to get the bestout of everybody.
Lisa Hopkins (13:50):
Absolutely. Is that something that that you see
as your role as a director toliterally do that, to bring out
the best in everybody to, to getto where you're going?
Michael Spiller (14:00):
Absolutely, I think, I think anyone who
doesn't, you know, engage theircollaborators. And not just to
prove yet the writers, the cast,but everybody who's there, if
you don't engage them, you'rereally shortchanging yourself
and ultimately the project thatdoesn't mean that every single
(14:23):
idea that's pitched is going tobe a good one. It's comical on
the shows that I'm on full time.
You know, I say repeatedly, theonly bad ideas but one to keep
to yourself. I want to hear it.
I tell I used to tell a storyabout early days starting out,
you know, walking away from seta couple grips or electricians
(14:45):
would be in front of me. And Ihear them grumbling and shaking
their heads and the most messedup shoot I've ever been on.
These people are so stupid. Whydon't they just do this? And
that always stuck with me. Justlike well, they don't do that
because a you didn't feel likeit was okay for you to raise
your hand say, Hey, I have anidea. Or this would go a lot
(15:09):
smoother if you producers wouldspend some money on this, this
or that, or any number of otherthings that they might have. But
the culture didn't exist, theyweren't encouraged to do that.
So once I was in a positionwhere I could influence
decisions that were made goingforward, I pull everybody and I
(15:29):
say, what can we be doingbetter? From where you're,
you're pushing the dolly? Whatdo you see? Every day? That, you
know, because you're looking atthings in sort of a narrow
scope, you have a hyper focuson? What are you seeing that I'm
not that we can do? And thatwill make your life easier, more
(15:50):
efficient, you know, whatever,because all of that will show up
on screen ultimately. Yeah,
Lisa Hopkins (15:55):
totally. And it's really interesting, because, as
a coach, we talked about thelenses you're looking for,
right? But it's reallyinteresting because with with
lenses, and with what you'retalking about, and perspective,
a you come from, you know, thecinematography background. So
you've, you've you have thatperspective. So you bringing
that to the table, right. Andthen as a director, it sounds
(16:16):
like and a producer that you'rereally engaging, or people
understanding that there's morethan just the way I can steer
the story, because there's allthis information, right, from
all all the people to create andCO create something new and
different. I'm so curious toknow what what was it that drew
you to directing? Like, becauseit sounds like, you know, what
(16:38):
did you say? He hung up hislight meters and wet? Like, what
was it that made you want todirect?
Michael Spiller (16:43):
Well, I mean, it's funny, I, towards the end
of the first season of Sex inthe City, my agent called me and
said, if the show gets picked upfor a second season, I'm going
to make them give you an episodeto direct. And I was like, Nah,
I'm good. You know, I'm Icomfortable? My Lane doing what
(17:04):
I do and said, No, you're goingto do it. Well, okay. So I was
not chomping at the bit to do itby any. And that first episode.
I also was the DP on theepisode. So I don't recommend
that for first time directors.
The great part about it was, Imean, I definitely there was not
(17:30):
a class like I teach now. I wishthere was I would have saved me
years of making mistakes andlearning things in a different
way. But I did feel like a bitlike I was walking out on a
tight rope blindfolded. But theentire cast and crew was below
me going. We got you, Mike, wegot you. So that was a wonderful
(17:50):
feeling. And I you know, sincethen, I've been instrumental in
giving many directors theirfirst episode. And the you know,
in fact, on The Mindy Project, Ibasically had the same
conversation my agent had withme about the giving the DPS
first episode, he's like, no,no, I really don't want. I said,
(18:14):
you're going to do it, Marco.
And he did a great job anddirected seven or eight through
the course of this series. So
Lisa Hopkins (18:22):
well. What do you think? Do you remember what it
was? you're most afraid of? Likethe thing that made you say, no,
no, thanks.
Michael Spiller (18:30):
Well, I think historically, looking back on my
career and the choices I've beenfaced with, you know, I spoke
earlier about healthy creativerisks. I tend and I, I started
out working as a grip andelectrician. And so every step
of the way, I had to take ahealthy creative risk and say,
(18:52):
you know, what, I'm no longergoing to be a Best Boy, I'm
going to be a gaffer. So peoplecall me for Best Boy work are
not going to call me anymore,you know, and I'm going to lose
work, but ultimately, it'll getme closer to shooting, which is
what I want to do. So each oneof those stages you take a risk,
and this is not unique to me, asthe risks got bigger, you know,
as the steps got larger, it wasI felt like there was more at
(19:15):
stake. And, and, you know, myfear, my insecurity, my, you
know, desire not to step out ofmy comfort zone was often very
powerful. So, you know, to helpmy wife and my agent, my
parents, and, you know, peoplewho I trusted, you know, who
(19:38):
thought that I could, you know,I was capable of it, I was
talented, and why not? What'sthe worst that could happen? You
know, I did do that every singletime I did. It's worked out. So,
you know, for anyone watchingthis or listening to this, who
has that voice in their headtelling them they shouldn't try
something you know, I don'tbelieve
Lisa Hopkins (20:04):
that's a great message. It's interesting too, I
often say to my clients lose thetrying, because trying implies
again, that the idea that youcould fail, just do it. Yeah. I
mean, they just do it thing, theNike or whatever. I mean, it's
kind of true, right? Becausetrying does imply that there's,
you know, a percentage of spacein there that.
Michael Spiller (20:25):
And there's room for growth each time you do
that, I mean, obviously, there'sthe possibility of growth. But
there's, with my process hasbeen that I've tried to
consciously take action and havea plan for myself. Like when I
started The Mindy Project, I wasgoing to be an executive
(20:47):
producer as my first time as anexecutive producer on the show.
And I thought, I am not going tobluff my way through anything.
If I don't know something,because I haven't done it
before. I'm going to stop andsay, I'm sorry. I haven't done
50 mixes? What? Can you just saythat phrase again? Or just
(21:10):
explain? Or what does that mean?
I have the job, you know, it'slike is worse to, you know, to
bluff and think that Oh, my God,if I say something, you know,
everyone's gonna know, I haven'tdone this before. And then you
stumble through and maybe screwit up. And like, then people are
saying, What the hell is wrongwith this executive producer?
Yeah, why does he know this isbut if you say, I'm sorry, guys.
Let's talk about this. Becausethis is new to me. Well, now
(21:35):
you're being vulnerable, andyou're involving other people
and they're engaged in mostpeople are very happy to explain
what it is they do. Because itwill make our subsequent future
interactions that much smoother.
So
Lisa Hopkins (21:53):
Well, yeah. And it's like, it's funny, it's
funny, we call it it isvulnerable, because being
honest, sometimes it's veryvulnerable. But isn't it
interesting that really, we'rejust being honest. Right? You
were you're owning it. And Ilove that because, you know, as
humans, and we were hardwired todo that, to protect ourselves
from embarrassment, from, youknow, from, you know, from a
very young age, and we programourselves that way, not only,
(22:17):
you know, from our primitiveancient times, but from, you
know, from when we were kids to,oh, better be careful, Michael,
don't do that, you know, youmight get hurt, you might scrape
your knee. And it's true. Youknow, there was there were
things that kept you safe. Butthere's a certain point at which
I mean, I call it recasting youryour Gremlin, right, literally,
you know, rewriting the scriptand just saying, hey, not like,
get it out of your head. I thinka lot of us spend a lot of
(22:39):
energy, saying, No, I'm notgoing to think like that. I'm
going to think like this. Andit's like this. Whereas it's
like, no, no, come on, in. Thankyou. You've served me in the
past, you've been fabulous. It'san old story, though. We have a
new story, and I could use yourhelp. Could you help me do this?
You know,
Michael Spiller (22:58):
that, that resonates with me. I mean, for
sure. The sort of? Well, firstof all, I'm just struck by the
embarrassment thing, becauseembarrassment is one of these,
it is one of the hidden, in myopinion, one of the hidden toxic
emotions that particularly formen, that leads to so much other
stuff, so much bluster andaggression, and, you know, shame
(23:22):
and you know, just theseterrible toxic states that
people can work themselves into.
And I, as I've gotten older, andmore experienced, and done a lot
of therapy, I've learned that,you know, I can laugh at myself,
I don't need to be perfect. Andif I do something wrong, or I
ask a stupid question, quote,unquote, stupid question, or I
(23:44):
suggest something that doesn'twork, I don't need to be
embarrassed if the space thatI've hopefully helped create is
safe for everyone to do that.
And it's, in fact, anopportunity for me to lead by
example, by making a fool ofmyself, again, I would put that
(24:04):
in quotes, because, you know,the actors are probably taking
the greatest risks of anybody,because, you know, they're so
exposed, that they're, you know,they may try something, and if
they personally don't like it,it may still wind up in the
show. And that could feelterrible to them. So they're
very, very vulnerable, and theyneed to feel safe. And as part
(24:28):
of that, creating that largersafety zone on set, again, where
everyone gets to say, I have athought, or can I make a pitch?
Or what do we think about this?
You know, is this worth tryingand you know, involving other
people, because then, you know,great things can happen. If
you're protecting yourself ifyou're censoring yourself if
(24:49):
you're stifling your, yourideas, you're the thing that
wells up that you have nocontrol over that thought, that
creative force or if you'restifling that. That's, I mean,
that's a crime. Yeah. Yeah. Whenwe were starting to go back to
(25:09):
work, you know, I was doing aseries in Canada in August 2020.
No one had ever made a TV showunder COVID conditions before.
So even though many people havedone it since then, and there
are other people who were doingit simultaneously, it really
(25:29):
felt like this was unchartedterritory. And templates and
methods of doing work had beenthat had been honed over 100
years, had to be reinvented. AndI did think at the time and
still argue that there was noone better suited to come up
with a system for how to keepdoing our jobs under COVID, than
(25:54):
a film crew, I believe that wecould do it. But there, there
was an emotional component thatwasn't really addressed, we were
going to work every day, in asituation where it's quite
possible that someone would getsick, I was like, the, I'm gonna
do everything in my power to notbe the person in charge up here,
(26:15):
who let someone go home, andsomething devastated their
family. So I spoke about that alot. And I expressed my
vulnerability and, you know, thestress and anxiety that I was
feeling, and you know, how muchtheir safety and well being
(26:38):
meant to me, it was a really,really scary time. And, you
know, and we all had to lace upour states and wear our masks
and face shields and follow allthe protocols. And, you know,
put food on the table for ourfamilies, and create
(26:59):
entertainment for the world,which was something that I think
really helped us all I know, ithelped me get through this time,
it still does, I really feltlike that was an opportunity
where I could stretch myunderstanding of what my
responsibility was, for my job,that it really included. The
(27:23):
physical and emotional wellbeing of, you know, 150 people
that I was, I was leading,
Lisa Hopkins (27:35):
that's amazing. I just want to stop for a moment
and celebrate you actually, forthat, because if you know, just
just getting to know you, Imean, based on that sort of
identifying, you know, when youfirst started not feeling like
you could tap into the skills,of even giving notes to somebody
about a performance to to, youknow, fast forward to 2020 to
(27:58):
leading a team in, you know,literally on a you know,
pioneering mission. Right?
That's huge. That's really huge.
Congratulations. I mean, they'revery lucky to have you as a
leader.
Michael Spiller (28:11):
Thank you. And it didn't go perfectly, but it
went really, really well. And Ilearned a ton, and almost no one
got sick. Yeah,
Lisa Hopkins (28:19):
that's amazing.
That's amazing. What did youlearn that you're going to take
away with you and yourleadership?
Michael Spiller (28:24):
Well, I think I learned I need to, I need to
lean in harder to some of thethings that still are less
attractive or more scared me orI just rather avoid and, you
know, it's one thing is trickyis that the job description of a
(28:47):
producing director varies job tojob. You know, I think I know
what my strengths are. And Ithink I can get better at saying
more of that upfront, which istricky, because you're trying to
get the job, when you'reinterviewing. You don't want to
go in too hard. It's like, Well,I'm not gonna do this, I'm not
gonna do this. But I'm reallygreat at these things. But I
(29:11):
think having clarity about whatthe least the initial
expectations are and what thedivision of labor is going to
be. And as part of what I loveabout it, again, is that I'm
going to learn something. If Ishow up every day, with my eyes,
my mind, my ears, and my heartopen. And I'm willing, then I
(29:33):
can learn something. And I canshare something and people can
learn from me as well. Yeah.
Lisa Hopkins (29:40):
And you cannot fail. I mean, I believe that if
the goal is not to win, but tolearn, we always learn. If we're
open to it, then we cannot fail.
Michael Spiller (29:51):
I agree. It's sort of for me, I say it's a
beginner's mindset. It's like, Idon't know what I'm gonna
experience today. I'm So I havesome ideas. And I've maybe done
things that are similar, but itis going to be different.
Because this is right now. And,you know, to your point earlier
about, you know, we don't knowwho's walking in with what, you
(30:15):
know, what what's going on intheir in our lives or, you know,
external pressures that areimpacting them. Yep. So there's
a lot of wildcards
Lisa Hopkins (30:26):
for sure, for sure. And wouldn't it be so
dull? If it was, if you if itwas the same all the time? You
wouldn't want to be doing it?
Probably. Right?
Michael Spiller (30:33):
Well, I mean, that relates back to the way I
prep for stuff. Prep is a hugelyimportant part of my process,
and it's evolved, I feel like toaddress some of my fears, and
insecurities, over the years, Ideveloped habits related to
(30:56):
prep, that were meant to, youknow, eliminate variables. And,
and, you know, it's like, I hadto know everything, by draw
ladder diagrams, and blockingblocking diagrams and shot lists
and things. And, you know, like,all we have to do is follow this
roadmap, and then cut out theslates and string it together.
(31:17):
And it'll be exactly how I wantit. And that was a really
limiting kind of approach. So Imean, I, over the years, I did,
maybe a little less of that, orI did it, but my personal
relationship to that work wasone of, well, I've done this so
that I'm prepared, and I can nowignore it, and be open to a
(31:41):
better idea. Over more time, Ifound that, yeah, I was saying
that, but I wasn't really doingthat. I would try and guide
everybody back to what may havebeen the very first idea I had
when I started prepping thatparticular story. That doesn't
(32:02):
mean it's my best idea. And it'salso my idea, rather than, you
know, opening up the process toeveryone else's input. Often,
there's, the actors are going tobring surprises, they're gonna
have ideas, they are not phoningit in. They're not just, you
(32:24):
know, rubber stamping it again.
And if there's not room forthat, there's gonna be conflict.
Yeah. And if you're not nimble,flexible, and trusting, then
you're gonna stumble? Yeah.
Lisa Hopkins (32:43):
It's funny, because I pay really big
attention to the stories in myhead, because that's the work I
do, right. And, you know, therewas a story threatening, which I
completely dismissed, becauseI'm getting really good at
going, that's just a story, thenI don't believe it, which was
that he didn't fit this beforeyou sent your thing. He didn't
fill out the form that we'llstart going, Oh, he's probably
too busy. He probably thinksit's a press junket, he probably
(33:06):
doesn't even know why he's here.
Why is even coming to be on thepodcast, he probably doesn't
want to talk about like, youknow, so I wholeheartedly went
through and just did whatever Ido, you know, prepping for our
interview and researching youand enjoying getting to know you
a little bit. And then you sentthe thing like, half an hour,
and I just thought it was sogiving, I was like, suddenly it
was like he is sees the oppositeof what my voice was telling me
(33:28):
in my head. And had you not sentthat you're the same person.
Just because you sent it doesn'tmean you're a different person,
you just happen to be able tosend it, I would have been going
on the pretext for the shorttime that we're together in our
scene together, that I will be alittle defensive. You know,
like, it's so funny, right? Whenwe believe the stories in our
(33:48):
head.
Michael Spiller (33:51):
Yeah, that is the sort of thing that that I I
would have been right there withyou had the rope in reverse. I
would have spun a very elaboratestory. Yeah. And gotten myself
into that victim mindset. And,you know, she thinks she's doing
me a favor, you know, all thissort of, like this nonsense.
It's just like, why, but I am. Iam sorry that I did. Oh, no, I
(34:15):
didn't get it to you soonerbecause I hate that I created an
opportunity for you to knowyourself that story.
Lisa Hopkins (34:22):
It was it was perfect, because the story did
not get very far. I mean, it wasliterally like, like a shredded
script. And it did not lastnight. I said,
Michael Spiller (34:31):
Well, I mean, it's that fear of the unknown.
You know, we tell ourselves astory going into it. Exactly.
And, you know, as I said,Because I woke up in the middle
the night I didn't sleep andyeah, you know, and I almost
reached out and said, Can wefind it another time? But I felt
like I was in a good space andthat maybe my guard would be
(34:54):
down or the stories would bequieter, you know? And I could
just show up and So far, sogood.
Lisa Hopkins (35:06):
Oh, now she's gonna ask the big one now. Hey,
so it's interesting way back,you mentioned and it was so
funny because I felt that talkabout synergy in that moment was
as if you read my mind, becauseI was gonna ask you, what are
your strengths? And as I wasthinking, you said, I know my
strengths, and you didn't tellme what they were. So I'm super
curious, because it actually wasa question of mine. What, you
(35:30):
know, just put, you know, puthumility to the side and like,
what do you think? Are yourunique strengths? Or what do you
feel? Are your very differentthan thinking? What do you feel
are your unique strengths?
Michael Spiller (35:42):
Yeah, I feel like the strengths I have are
that I'm easy to get along with.
I'm creative. I'm an optimist. Ibring a lot of positivity to
most situations, and certainlylike onset, I love to
(36:03):
collaborate. I truly respect thepeople that I'm working with,
what do
Lisa Hopkins (36:13):
you think is your Achilles heel?
Michael Spiller (36:16):
Um, sensitivity can be a double edged sword. I
think, you know, if you'resensitive and empathetic, I
think that's only a good thing.
But, you know, my feelings canbe hurt. And, you know, I might
retreat in certain situations.
(36:39):
And, and, you know, I'm animperfect human being. And, you
know, I have that voice in myhead telling me a story. And,
you know, if the rightcombination of things happen, or
I walk into somethingpredisposed to it, it's possible
that, that that will creep inand impact my performance. So,
(37:01):
yeah, that's one thing. Yeah, Imean, I guess that's, I'm sure
there's other stuff. But that'swhat's coming to me, ya
Lisa Hopkins (37:10):
know, for sure.
Thank you for sharing that. I'mso curious to know how you as
someone else, if someone elsewas, was directing the Michael
spiller show or portraying you,what what is it that you hope
that you're projecting to theworld? I hear a lot of it, I
hear the kindness, the empathy,the openness, the vulnerability?
What's, what's at the backsideof that? Like, what if, what if
(37:34):
you weren't able we lost thescript? What if you couldn't
show up that way?
Michael Spiller (37:41):
Well, I think part of, you know, part of
wanting to be liked. And I dowant to be liked, and at times
that that, you know, impacted mecreatively, because I would not
offer up my opinion ofsomething. Because I thought,
(38:03):
you know, I thinksubconsciously, I thought, if I
agree with this person, or thatperson who's hired me, or is
above me in the hierarchy, youknow, they'll like me, or
they'll want to keep me around.
And I've now grown out of that,and I feel like the reason I'm
hired is, is to express my trueopinion, you know, in a, in a
(38:27):
collaborative way, I'mshortchanging myself in the
project if I don't do that, butI think, you know, looking back
further, like, core character,early childhood stuff. You know,
I grew up in Brooklyn. I movedthere when I was five years old,
right before first grade. And myparents were kind of hippie ish.
(38:49):
And, you know, we moved from NewJersey, so everyone who could at
that time, was leaving Brooklynand going to New Jersey or Long
Island, and we moved toBrooklyn, to a very Italian
neighborhood. You know, the next10 years were like, the first 20
minutes a Goodfellas. And, youknow, I got my ass kicked a
(39:11):
number of times, because I lookdifferent than my parents both
work as only child, you know, insome ways, I kind of raised
myself. I was sort of veryindependent from a very young
age. You know, when I was 12, or13, I began to sort of get tired
of being an outsider and gettingbeat up. You sort of reinvent
(39:34):
myself, like a parallel versionof myself. I passed for Italian.
I've since discovered through23andme. There's a little bit of
truth to that. But, you know, Iwould tell people that I was
half the time my mother wasItalian, and cultivated my
Brooklyn accent and basicallybecame a version of who I
(39:55):
thought The world would accept,because I got the message very
young, that if you knew the realme, you'd reject me, or you'd
beat me up, or you'd ignore him.
So, you know, it's been alifelong process to understand
(40:21):
that, correct that and adjustand recalibrate that. Recognize
it and say, you know, as yousaid, that's, that was true then
and at some level, that skillhelped me survive. Again, these
words survive. And I don't needto do that any longer. And I can
(40:43):
be my authentic self. And Ithink people who've been with me
on set, know that I can be, Ican be loud, and exuberant, and
command attention all in a fun,playful way. But I'm very shot.
(41:05):
So I'm, you know, but I havesocial anxiety. You know, I
don't, I don't like being acenter of attention, I think
not, you know, having thisanxiety about people's names,
like in social situations, like,
Lisa Hopkins (41:22):
it must be really interesting. In this context,
especially, I mean, if I was ayoung filmmaker, or some wanting
to be a director or something,and I met you, at one of these
parties, that you probablydidn't want to be out or
whatever. That must be reallybizarre for you, in a way. I
mean, thank God, you're a givingperson and you want to, just
(41:43):
obviously, you're helping young,young people. But is that a
strange experience for you tolike, I mean, when they see all
that you've done, they're justgoing to, like, target you.
Right? going, Oh, I gotta have aconversation with that guy.
Like, how does that feel foryou? Is that is that a? It's
kind of a paradox in a way,right? Because,
Michael Spiller (42:02):
I guess I mean, I do recognize it. And I mean,
first of all, I won't lie tohave anybody come up and say,
like, they're a fan of yourwork, or, you know, even to this
day, people come up to me andtalk about movies I shot, you
know, like, how Hartley films tochange their life. And it's
like, like, nothing's betterthan that. I could hear that all
(42:25):
day long. And not, because it'slike feeding my ego. It's just
like, an actual humanconnection. You know, that helps
me understand that. The workthat I'm doing, I've devoted my
life to mean something. Youknow, it's I struggle with that,
like, 10 years, what have Idone? Like, was that was crap
mean? You know, it's like, theyhaven't touched anybody? Nope. I
(42:47):
have, I've been a part of workthat has been important and has
caused people joy or anemotional reaction. And I'm
proud of that. And it'svaluable, and it's meaningful,
and it's necessary. But whenpeople come up, and you know, I
can relate to the, Oh, I see,they might be nervous, or
(43:11):
they're waiting, and they wantto say hi. Like, I tried to just
be as welcoming as possible. Imean, obviously, situations can
vary, but if it's a mixer, orsome sort of event, you know, TV
Academy, or Directors Guild orsomething like that, where
that's the whole purpose of it.
I mean, I'm, I'm an open book,and I give people my email
(43:33):
address, phone number, and let'scontinue this conversation. And
it's, you know, maybe one ofthese days, I wanted to
teaching, you know, full time orsomething like that, but it is
something I really love, becauseI love talking about the work, I
love talking about my process, Ilove trying to help foster and
nourish a different kind ofenvironment on set and a
(44:00):
different kind of mindset. Youknow, the days of people
screaming and yelling andtreating each other poorly, you
know, on every level, have to beending. Those have to it's not,
there's just no reason for it.
And that there never was, but itwas, you know, the environment I
(44:20):
grew up in professionally wasvery, very different than it is
today. And I'm quite gratefulfor that. And I've played
whatever small role in that, butI can continue to and also I
feed off their energy andenthusiasm and excitement then
(44:40):
they re inspire me, andhopefully, whatever nuggets I
share can inspire them and so,yeah, but I, I can I can
recognize that you know, theshoe being on the other foot and
that instance is there is a Anirony to that.
Lisa Hopkins (45:02):
Totally. Yeah, no, totally. What's one one
highlight and one low light ofyour career so far? Is there one
that like really stands out as ahighlight one that stands out as
a low light?
Michael Spiller (45:11):
I mean, the sort of big highlight of, of
winning and MB was, you know, isan obvious answer. And yet, it's
still, it was hard to beat thatmoment. I mean, that was truly
(45:33):
incredible. That was a clichedhighlight. But that was a
highlight something
Lisa Hopkins (45:38):
cliched about it.
And if it happens, it's likewhen people say, you know, it's
not bragging if you did it,right. I mean, you won the Emmy.
On it, man. Good for you. Yeah.
Yeah. I love it.
Michael Spiller (45:53):
And then yeah, I mean, lowlights. I've been let
go on jobs twice, in my career,and, you know, is really
painful. In each instance, I wasable to really look at it and
(46:15):
examine like, Okay, I first ofall, I'm entitled to feel sad
and confused or angry, and, youknow, all the any emotion I feel
I didn't try and talk myself outof. And I thought this is a
chance to, like, not replay inmy head every moment and give it
(46:40):
weight or import that wasn'tthere and think, oh, that's the
thing that did it, you know,that was the thing that broke
the camel's back, or, but tolook at my role in it, and just,
you know, honestly, and, andalso consult with people who
were present, and say, you know,were there things that I missed?
Were there things that I couldhave done better? You know, how
(47:01):
can I learn from this? And, youknow, in both instances, it
wasn't like I did one thing thatcaused it, you know, there's an
alchemy and a chemistry to allthe different moving parts and
offense like, well, you can'tfire the director, you know,
(47:22):
when the, you know, some willfire the DP, you know, or can't
rearrange the whole writingroom, you know, this stage of
the game, let's, you know, swapout the producing director, and
maybe that will address stuff.
So, there's a lot of thosefactors. And, you know, because
I'm not paying myself as avictim, there were things that I
(47:46):
could have done differently,that maybe would have, you know,
change the outcome. Yeah.
Lisa Hopkins (47:58):
But you chose what you thought was best in the
moment. And I really believethat I believe that we all do
the very best we can in anygiven moment. And that has to do
with what we're talking aboutwhat access you have, to what
lenses to what choices andsometimes, you know, and within
whatever Lens we're lookingthrough, we make the best
choice. We're the other lensesthere. Yes. Did you have access?
(48:21):
Probably not. Right. So so it'sso there's no sort of, and I
love that and lessons learned100% from everything and gifts
to be gained? You know, but Ibet you could probably, if we
had another hour together, youcould probably carve out, you
know, gosh, you know, had thatnot happen? Yes, I would have
not only would I not havelearned this, but also, you
(48:45):
know, there's all sorts ofthings. Dominoes, right? It's,
Michael Spiller (48:48):
I'm glad you brought that up, because it is
something that I remind myselfof, and I, when I talk to my
kids about this stuff, you know,because they're, they're still
in school, medical. Everything'slooming ahead, what are what are
my options going to be? And it'slike, you know, one decision one
job, one, you know, I don'tknow, aside your place somewhere
(49:13):
as an internship, or something'slike any of those things can
just change the completedirection of your life. And, you
know, I know that I'm sittinghere talking to you, at this
moment, because of everydecision, and every action I've
taken my entire life. So if anyone of those if anything had
(49:36):
been done differently, Iwouldn't be here in this moment
speaking to you. So, you know,we're where we are, because of
all the choices and actions andbehaviors and things that we've
done good and bad, you know, inquotes throughout our lives, so.
Lisa Hopkins (49:54):
Yep. 100% What value were you honoring? Because
you said you weren't feelingwell? All today, but that you
decided to come anyways. Andpart of it, you explained was
because well actually, thismight be good because
vulnerability is important tome. I know that's important to
you. And I'm feeling a littlebit vulnerable, a little bit
rough around the edges because Ididn't get my sleep. Talk to me
a little bit about why youshowed up today, what value you
(50:17):
were honoring?
Michael Spiller (50:18):
Well, I try to be someone who will honor their
commitments. You know, I made acommitment to show up today and
you set aside time and you sentme stuff and that, you know, you
kept up your end of it. So Ineeded to, and I think I've done
okay, I'm not as tired as Ishould be. I haven't coughed
(50:42):
continually throughout, which isgood to hear amazing. Yeah, so I
mean, commitment. Commitmentmeans a lot to me. And, like any
human, I have not done thatperfectly. You know, I haven't,
I haven't honored everycommitment perfectly in my life,
and, but I strive to, I striveto, to be the best version of
(51:06):
myself. I can be every day. AndI try to build routines and
support structure for myself tohelp that and, you know, there
are times I think, I don't wantto just other people have to do
this stuff for they just, again,this sort of comparing and you
know, just imagining what otherpeople do or don't do. And so I
(51:31):
don't dwell on that, becausethat, that will lead me to
feeling like I'm a victim. And,you know, I'm here, I'm doing
okay, I'm still breathing. I'vegot a family that loves me, and
I love them and got friends andmany cats and, you know, and if,
(51:54):
if things change, and you know,life takes an unexpected turn,
I'll be okay. We'll figure itout.
Lisa Hopkins (52:03):
Yeah, totally.
Totally. What do you know, willwill stay true about you, no
matter what happens.
Michael Spiller (52:14):
I know that my love of laughing will stay with
me. Both sides of my family justlove telling stories and love
laughing and they're very, verydifferent people. But it's, you
know, telling a story is free.
And you know, it's it's all weit's what I do for a living. And
(52:40):
it's what humans have done. Youknow, since we began to
communicate, you know, for manydifferent reasons, and yeah, and
when they get when they includelaughter That's a good thing.
Lisa Hopkins (52:56):
I love it.
Amazing. All right, we're gonnado I say what makes you and then
I'll just say a word and thenyou can say what comes to mind.
Alright, so what makes youhungry?
Michael Spiller (53:13):
Smelling
Lisa Hopkins (53:17):
what makes you sad?
Michael Spiller (53:19):
You want feeling lonely?
Lisa Hopkins (53:22):
What inspires you?
People what frustrates you,people? What makes you laugh?
Michael Spiller (53:35):
People? So as for I love it. No, it's great.
And my cats my cats make melaugh.
Lisa Hopkins (53:41):
What makes you angry?
Michael Spiller (53:43):
close minded.
Hey, holes.
Lisa Hopkins (53:48):
Yeah. And finally, what makes you grateful?
Everything what are the topthree things that have happened
so far today?
Michael Spiller (54:03):
The sun is shining. I showed up for this.
And so far I don't have COVIDtoday. I love it.
Lisa Hopkins (54:13):
What's something you really looking forward to
both today? And then let's gometa and tell me in the future
what you're looking forward to.
Michael Spiller (54:20):
I'm looking forward to what's next. For me
professionally, I don't knowwhere my next job is. There's
some stuff that's sort ofpercolating. This is a it's been
a bit of a stretch without work.
So I'm enjoying being home andbeing with my wife and building
a woodshop in my garage, which Ireally love. And I'm ready to
(54:43):
get back on set and put it intopractice. All the things that
I've learned,
Lisa Hopkins (54:51):
Michael, I really I so appreciate you taking the
time to be in the moment with metoday.
Michael Spiller (54:56):
I really, really do. It's my pleasure. I
got a lot out of it. as well,it's
Lisa Hopkins (55:00):
been great to get to know you and super excited
for what's coming next. I'vebeen speaking today with Michael
spiller. Thanks for listening,stay safe and help everyone and
remember to live in the moment.
In music stop time is thatbeautiful moment where the band
is suspended and rhythmicunison, supporting the soloist
to express their individuality.
(55:24):
In the moment, I encourage youto take that time and create
your own rhythm. Until nexttime, I'm Lisa Hopkins. Thanks
for listening
This is the stop time podcast. I'm your host,
Lisa Hopkins, and I'm here toengage you in thought provoking
motivational conversationsaround practicing the art of
living in the moment. I'm acertified life coach, and I'm
excited to dig deep and offerinsights into embracing who we
are and where we are at.
(00:24):
So my next guest was raised inBrooklyn, New York, and he
followed a lifelong love ofmovies and television to SUNY
Purchase, where he received aBFA in film. Working his way up
on the onset crew ladder in NewYork City after graduation, he
eventually led to a successfulcareer as a cinematographer. He
(00:47):
shot theatrical featuresepisodic TV, documentaries,
commercials and music videos allover the globe. After serving as
dp on the first season of HBOsucks in the city. He launched
his directing career in seasontwo, and went on to direct seven
episodes of the series beforemoving to LA in 2001. And
hanging up his light meters tofocus on directing full time. He
(01:10):
continued to direct some of themost successful comedies on TV.
His credits include more than 20episodes each of modern family
in scrubs as well as multipleepisodes of Get ready superstar
blackish mix mixed here's thenew girl the middle Cougar Town,
Bernie Mac, don't trust the B inApartment 23 and Better Off Ted.
(01:31):
His hour long work includeswhiskey Cavalier, AJ and the
Queen good girls Big Love andfive episodes of Ugly Betty. He
was the pilot and series maindirector for the ABC series Jake
and Progress and Big Day anddirected the pilot and executive
produced champions with MindyKaling and Charlie grandi. He
(01:52):
was the executive producerdirector on The Mindy Project
for all six seasons, anddirected 30 of the 116 episodes
of the series in 2011, for hisdirection of the series Modern
Family. He won both an Emmy anda DGA award for the Halloween
episode and was nominated for aDGA award again in 2012 for the
(02:14):
Express Christmas episode forthe same series. He sits on the
DGA creative rights committeeconsults on NBC female, forward
and emerging director program.
And he's on the Board ofGovernors for the Television
Academy representing thedirectors peer group. He is also
one of the founding members andprincipal instructors of DGA
first time episodic directorsclasses. Post COVID. He has
(02:35):
served as executive producer,director on three shows all
shooting in Vancouver, the firstseason of the Mighty Ducks game
changers for Disney, or Disneyplus the final 16 episodes of
Firefly lane, my favorite fornext Netflix and he launched so
helped me Todd for CBS beforefinally returning home to LA. It
(02:56):
is with pleasure that Iintroduce you all to Michael
Spiller. Michael, welcome.
Michael Spiller (03:05):
Thank you, Lisa. It is it was very
interesting hearing that readback I have lots of edits I want
to make sure including my myreading of it, probably it was a
cold read. So that was the bestpart of it.
Lisa Hopkins (03:19):
No, it's great.
It's great to get to know you.
And as we were saying pre show,like, you know, this came in a
little bit late, but it was funfor me to sort of discover you
in real time, which you know, Imean, we're called Stop Time
Live in the moment. So gottawalk that talk. Right?
Michael Spiller (03:33):
Exactly. I don't want you to be over
prepared.
Lisa Hopkins (03:36):
God forbid, God forbid, so many questions for
you. You must do you love whatyou do.
Michael Spiller (03:41):
I do love what I do, I think you have to to do
this work. I mean, my work isprimarily on television and film
set and has been for almost 40years. And if you don't love it,
you're probably not going tothrive. And you're not going to
have a good time. And, you know,the secret for me is I would do
(04:04):
most of this stuff for free.I'mreally glad they pay me butI'm,
I'm sort of the happiest whenI'm working which is something
I'm working on. Because youdon't work all the time. And and
the downtime is something thatI'm looking at how I address
(04:25):
that in my own life.
Lisa Hopkins (04:26):
Oh, that's really interesting. Thanks for sharing
that. It's it's funny becausewell, let me let me challenge
that a little bit. Just rightoff the top. Let's just jump in.
Well, I'm curious because do youreally believe that when you're
not working, you're not working?
Like you're a creative person,right?
Michael Spiller (04:43):
I am but I'm, I'm not necessarily like a great
self generator of work. Youknow, there are many peers of
mine who, when they'reunemployed, they're out there
working the global room takingmeetings or developing stories
(05:04):
or contacting writers and tryingto build their own thing. And
I've just never been graded thatI enjoy it the few times that
I've done that, and working withwriters, I really do enjoy that
on projects in development. ButI don't, I'm just not great at
generating that. So,you know, usually what happens
(05:57):
is, I stress for a couple ofweeks, and then I get a job, and
I'm like, Oh, my God, wait,there's so many things I want to
do, you know, around the house,or take a vacation with my wife
or, you know, go out to dinnerand all these other things. And,
you know, I've fallen into thattrap. I fell into that trap sort
of early in my career, and it'sbeen a process to try and get
(06:18):
out of that.
Lisa Hopkins (06:21):
Yeah. And when you have a track record like yours,
right, there's kind of a certainI don't know, self expectation,
as well, as, you know, Can I doit again? What is it for you?
What, what, what's prominent inyour mindset? Is it? I should do
it again, I need to do more,what's next? Or how the hell did
I do that? Can I do it again?
Right?
Michael Spiller (06:42):
Well, I mean, there's, there's some of all of
those things and bouncing aroundin my head. You know, I think,
like a lot of people in thisline of work, I definitely
wrestle with some degree of, youknow, for lack of a better
phrase, impostor syndrome. And,you know, just, I'm very self
critical and insecure. And Igenerally don't project that on
(07:07):
set. And when I'm on set, I'mnot feeling that way. For the
most part, butit's the downtimes when you
know, that I'm never going towork again, creeps in or the, oh
my god, I'm a fraud, and theyfound out, someone's going to
tap me on the shoulder and say,I'm sorry, we need that. Bet me
back. And, you know, it's, and Iknow, that's not true. You know,
(07:30):
I know that you can't survive inthis business for as long as I
have. By, you know, by accident.
So, you know, that that's partof the game that I play with
myself, and allowing those fearsto creep in, you know, can
(07:51):
overtake common sense and, andhistorical, tangible references.
So that's, you know, and that'ssomething I talked to a lot of
young people and up and comingdirectors about, too, is just,
you know, what is your tolerancefor uncertainty in your life,
(08:13):
because you can have a verygradual success or, or no
success, and then suddenly a bigsuccess, and then it drops off
or anything in between. And, youknow, there's a number there's,
in almost every professionallife in this line of work,
you're going to experience a dryspell. And what you do during
(08:34):
that time is very telling, andthe better you can do it, the
longer you'll survive.
Lisa Hopkins (08:42):
Well, it's interesting to it has been sort
of the thrust of what we weretold by our mentors. And it's
interesting because the wordsurvive keeps coming up, right,
if you want to survive, if youwant fame, fame caught, you
know, and it's funny that we setourselves up for these things.
Because, yes, it is true. Imean, through discernment, we
understand that. It's notsteady, right? And all of that,
(09:05):
but when we program our brainsto think, thank God, I survived.
You know, I mean, the other sideof that is, how lucky am I that
I've, you know, been able tomake a living doing what I love
to do not, you know, you knowwhat I mean? That's a totally
different mindset saying thesame thing. But the the idea
that you needed to survive. Imean, imagine surviving life
(09:26):
without passion.
I don't know, you know what, Imean, I'd be implied Yeah, using
survive, I think, is somethingthat might be useful to be
shifted in our mindsets of abouthow we approach stuff. What do
you think?
Michael Spiller (09:42):
No, I think so.
I mean, I guess,survive might be a little strong
and thrive. You know, postpandemic, the advice for what
it's worth that I give my kidsis, I tell them repeatedly. I
honestly don't care. They'reboth in college. Just like I
honestly don't care what youstudy, I just want you to find
something you're passionateabout, and do it, I don't care
(10:07):
if you're gonna make a lot ofmoney, I don't care if there's
going to be three letters oranything after your name. Just
find something you love to do.
You know, it's that age oldadage of, if you love what you
do, you'll never work a day inyour life. And that is the way I
feel, I know that I work veryhard. But, you know, for better
(10:30):
or worse, I am at my happiest.
When I'm working, when I'msurrounded by, you know, every
film crew all over the worldI've ever worked with, are all
are all flavors and the same,you know, variations like
they're just there's a specifictype of person that that loves
this lifestyle. Yeah, this sortof uncertain transient, ever
(10:53):
changing, never dull lifestyle.
You know, there were like modernday carnies? I think some
extent, and those are my people.
Lisa Hopkins (11:07):
Yeah. That's cool.
There's a culture that you'respeaking to, right, which, which
is familiar, and exciting. Andcollaborative, right? So when
you jump in, you know that thoseare going to be elements that
exist, no matter what theproject, right, no matter what
story you're telling, and it'snot, if I'm hearing you
correctly, it sounds like thataspect is key to why you keep
doing it again, again, becauseat least you know, the baseline,
(11:30):
right, whether it fails doesn'tfail or whatever, you're gonna
get that right.
Michael Spiller (11:36):
Yeah, I mean, there's, there's things that are
consistent on every project.
Yeah, you know, to some degree,you know, you're telling a
story, and there's going to bedifferent people involved to
have certain responsibilities,and you know, how you choose to
interact with them, and how youpresent yourself. And, you know,
particularly in television, youknow, some speaking of big
(11:58):
generalities. And in the worldof episodic television, the role
of the director is quitedifferent than many other
arenas, you know, feature filmsor a play or something like
that. It's like the directorshas a different role. So the
director of really, an episodictelevision really needs to
(12:18):
collaborate as a guest. And, youknow, they need to be a leader
and have some ideas. But they'realso telling one chapter of an
ongoing story that has manythings established already. And
the people that are there day inand day out, know, a lot more
about the mechanics, thepolitics, the intricacies of the
(12:40):
characters. Yeah, then you do.
So if you've walked in expectingthat, you know, everyone's just
gonna listen to your brilliantapproach to everything, and
you're not going to involve themin the creative decisions,
you're probably going to have ahard time. And coming from the
(13:01):
crew side of the equation, Iknow that so well. And I think
one thing that I can bring to aproject, both as a guest
director, and as a producingdirector on the show where I'm
working with other directors, isa deep connection and respect
and bond with the crew. So theyknow I've got their back. And I
(13:24):
care about their input. And Iwant to hear their ideas. And
when everyone is engaged thatway, there are a few places more
exciting, I think, becauseanything can happen. You know,
it takes a lot of hearts andminds and ideas and visions, and
healthy risks, to get the bestout of everybody.
Lisa Hopkins (13:50):
Absolutely. Is that something that that you see
as your role as a director toliterally do that, to bring out
the best in everybody to, to getto where you're going?
Michael Spiller (14:00):
Absolutely, I think, I think anyone who
doesn't, you know, engage theircollaborators. And not just to
prove yet the writers, the cast,but everybody who's there, if
you don't engage them, you'rereally shortchanging yourself
and ultimately the project thatdoesn't mean that every single
(14:23):
idea that's pitched is going tobe a good one. It's comical on
the shows that I'm on full time.
You know, I say repeatedly, theonly bad ideas but one to keep
to yourself. I want to hear it.
I tell I used to tell a storyabout early days starting out,
you know, walking away from seta couple grips or electricians
(14:45):
would be in front of me. And Ihear them grumbling and shaking
their heads and the most messedup shoot I've ever been on.
These people are so stupid. Whydon't they just do this? And
that always stuck with me. Justlike well, they don't do that
because a you didn't feel likeit was okay for you to raise
your hand say, Hey, I have anidea. Or this would go a lot
(15:09):
smoother if you producers wouldspend some money on this, this
or that, or any number of otherthings that they might have. But
the culture didn't exist, theyweren't encouraged to do that.
So once I was in a positionwhere I could influence
decisions that were made goingforward, I pull everybody and I
(15:29):
say, what can we be doingbetter? From where you're,
you're pushing the dolly? Whatdo you see? Every day? That, you
know, because you're looking atthings in sort of a narrow
scope, you have a hyper focuson? What are you seeing that I'm
not that we can do? And thatwill make your life easier, more
(15:50):
efficient, you know, whatever,because all of that will show up
on screen ultimately. Yeah,
Lisa Hopkins (15:55):
totally. And it's really interesting, because, as
a coach, we talked about thelenses you're looking for,
right? But it's reallyinteresting because with with
lenses, and with what you'retalking about, and perspective,
a you come from, you know, thecinematography background. So
you've, you've you have thatperspective. So you bringing
that to the table, right. Andthen as a director, it sounds
(16:16):
like and a producer that you'rereally engaging, or people
understanding that there's morethan just the way I can steer
the story, because there's allthis information, right, from
all all the people to create andCO create something new and
different. I'm so curious toknow what what was it that drew
you to directing? Like, becauseit sounds like, you know, what
(16:38):
did you say? He hung up hislight meters and wet? Like, what
was it that made you want todirect?
Michael Spiller (16:43):
Well, I mean, it's funny, I, towards the end
of the first season of Sex inthe City, my agent called me and
said, if the show gets picked upfor a second season, I'm going
to make them give you an episodeto direct. And I was like, Nah,
I'm good. You know, I'm Icomfortable? My Lane doing what
(17:04):
I do and said, No, you're goingto do it. Well, okay. So I was
not chomping at the bit to do itby any. And that first episode.
I also was the DP on theepisode. So I don't recommend
that for first time directors.
The great part about it was, Imean, I definitely there was not
(17:30):
a class like I teach now. I wishthere was I would have saved me
years of making mistakes andlearning things in a different
way. But I did feel like a bitlike I was walking out on a
tight rope blindfolded. But theentire cast and crew was below
me going. We got you, Mike, wegot you. So that was a wonderful
(17:50):
feeling. And I you know, sincethen, I've been instrumental in
giving many directors theirfirst episode. And the you know,
in fact, on The Mindy Project, Ibasically had the same
conversation my agent had withme about the giving the DPS
first episode, he's like, no,no, I really don't want. I said,
(18:14):
you're going to do it, Marco.
And he did a great job anddirected seven or eight through
the course of this series. So
Lisa Hopkins (18:22):
well. What do you think? Do you remember what it
was? you're most afraid of? Likethe thing that made you say, no,
no, thanks.
Michael Spiller (18:30):
Well, I think historically, looking back on my
career and the choices I've beenfaced with, you know, I spoke
earlier about healthy creativerisks. I tend and I, I started
out working as a grip andelectrician. And so every step
of the way, I had to take ahealthy creative risk and say,
(18:52):
you know, what, I'm no longergoing to be a Best Boy, I'm
going to be a gaffer. So peoplecall me for Best Boy work are
not going to call me anymore,you know, and I'm going to lose
work, but ultimately, it'll getme closer to shooting, which is
what I want to do. So each oneof those stages you take a risk,
and this is not unique to me, asthe risks got bigger, you know,
as the steps got larger, it wasI felt like there was more at
(19:15):
stake. And, and, you know, myfear, my insecurity, my, you
know, desire not to step out ofmy comfort zone was often very
powerful. So, you know, to helpmy wife and my agent, my
parents, and, you know, peoplewho I trusted, you know, who
(19:38):
thought that I could, you know,I was capable of it, I was
talented, and why not? What'sthe worst that could happen? You
know, I did do that every singletime I did. It's worked out. So,
you know, for anyone watchingthis or listening to this, who
has that voice in their headtelling them they shouldn't try
something you know, I don'tbelieve
Lisa Hopkins (20:04):
that's a great message. It's interesting too, I
often say to my clients lose thetrying, because trying implies
again, that the idea that youcould fail, just do it. Yeah. I
mean, they just do it thing, theNike or whatever. I mean, it's
kind of true, right? Becausetrying does imply that there's,
you know, a percentage of spacein there that.
Michael Spiller (20:25):
And there's room for growth each time you do
that, I mean, obviously, there'sthe possibility of growth. But
there's, with my process hasbeen that I've tried to
consciously take action and havea plan for myself. Like when I
started The Mindy Project, I wasgoing to be an executive
(20:47):
producer as my first time as anexecutive producer on the show.
And I thought, I am not going tobluff my way through anything.
If I don't know something,because I haven't done it
before. I'm going to stop andsay, I'm sorry. I haven't done
50 mixes? What? Can you just saythat phrase again? Or just
(21:10):
explain? Or what does that mean?
I have the job, you know, it'slike is worse to, you know, to
bluff and think that Oh, my God,if I say something, you know,
everyone's gonna know, I haven'tdone this before. And then you
stumble through and maybe screwit up. And like, then people are
saying, What the hell is wrongwith this executive producer?
Yeah, why does he know this isbut if you say, I'm sorry, guys.
Let's talk about this. Becausethis is new to me. Well, now
(21:35):
you're being vulnerable, andyou're involving other people
and they're engaged in mostpeople are very happy to explain
what it is they do. Because itwill make our subsequent future
interactions that much smoother.
So
Lisa Hopkins (21:53):
Well, yeah. And it's like, it's funny, it's
funny, we call it it isvulnerable, because being
honest, sometimes it's veryvulnerable. But isn't it
interesting that really, we'rejust being honest. Right? You
were you're owning it. And Ilove that because, you know, as
humans, and we were hardwired todo that, to protect ourselves
from embarrassment, from, youknow, from, you know, from a
very young age, and we programourselves that way, not only,
(22:17):
you know, from our primitiveancient times, but from, you
know, from when we were kids to,oh, better be careful, Michael,
don't do that, you know, youmight get hurt, you might scrape
your knee. And it's true. Youknow, there was there were
things that kept you safe. Butthere's a certain point at which
I mean, I call it recasting youryour Gremlin, right, literally,
you know, rewriting the scriptand just saying, hey, not like,
get it out of your head. I thinka lot of us spend a lot of
(22:39):
energy, saying, No, I'm notgoing to think like that. I'm
going to think like this. Andit's like this. Whereas it's
like, no, no, come on, in. Thankyou. You've served me in the
past, you've been fabulous. It'san old story, though. We have a
new story, and I could use yourhelp. Could you help me do this?
You know,
Michael Spiller (22:58):
that, that resonates with me. I mean, for
sure. The sort of? Well, firstof all, I'm just struck by the
embarrassment thing, becauseembarrassment is one of these,
it is one of the hidden, in myopinion, one of the hidden toxic
emotions that particularly formen, that leads to so much other
stuff, so much bluster andaggression, and, you know, shame
(23:22):
and you know, just theseterrible toxic states that
people can work themselves into.
And I, as I've gotten older, andmore experienced, and done a lot
of therapy, I've learned that,you know, I can laugh at myself,
I don't need to be perfect. Andif I do something wrong, or I
ask a stupid question, quote,unquote, stupid question, or I
(23:44):
suggest something that doesn'twork, I don't need to be
embarrassed if the space thatI've hopefully helped create is
safe for everyone to do that.
And it's, in fact, anopportunity for me to lead by
example, by making a fool ofmyself, again, I would put that
(24:04):
in quotes, because, you know,the actors are probably taking
the greatest risks of anybody,because, you know, they're so
exposed, that they're, you know,they may try something, and if
they personally don't like it,it may still wind up in the
show. And that could feelterrible to them. So they're
very, very vulnerable, and theyneed to feel safe. And as part
(24:28):
of that, creating that largersafety zone on set, again, where
everyone gets to say, I have athought, or can I make a pitch?
Or what do we think about this?
You know, is this worth tryingand you know, involving other
people, because then, you know,great things can happen. If
you're protecting yourself ifyou're censoring yourself if
(24:49):
you're stifling your, yourideas, you're the thing that
wells up that you have nocontrol over that thought, that
creative force or if you'restifling that. That's, I mean,
that's a crime. Yeah. Yeah. Whenwe were starting to go back to
(25:09):
work, you know, I was doing aseries in Canada in August 2020.
No one had ever made a TV showunder COVID conditions before.
So even though many people havedone it since then, and there
are other people who were doingit simultaneously, it really
(25:29):
felt like this was unchartedterritory. And templates and
methods of doing work had beenthat had been honed over 100
years, had to be reinvented. AndI did think at the time and
still argue that there was noone better suited to come up
with a system for how to keepdoing our jobs under COVID, than
(25:54):
a film crew, I believe that wecould do it. But there, there
was an emotional component thatwasn't really addressed, we were
going to work every day, in asituation where it's quite
possible that someone would getsick, I was like, the, I'm gonna
do everything in my power to notbe the person in charge up here,
(26:15):
who let someone go home, andsomething devastated their
family. So I spoke about that alot. And I expressed my
vulnerability and, you know, thestress and anxiety that I was
feeling, and you know, how muchtheir safety and well being
(26:38):
meant to me, it was a really,really scary time. And, you
know, and we all had to lace upour states and wear our masks
and face shields and follow allthe protocols. And, you know,
put food on the table for ourfamilies, and create
(26:59):
entertainment for the world,which was something that I think
really helped us all I know, ithelped me get through this time,
it still does, I really feltlike that was an opportunity
where I could stretch myunderstanding of what my
responsibility was, for my job,that it really included. The
(27:23):
physical and emotional wellbeing of, you know, 150 people
that I was, I was leading,
Lisa Hopkins (27:35):
that's amazing. I just want to stop for a moment
and celebrate you actually, forthat, because if you know, just
just getting to know you, Imean, based on that sort of
identifying, you know, when youfirst started not feeling like
you could tap into the skills,of even giving notes to somebody
about a performance to to, youknow, fast forward to 2020 to
(27:58):
leading a team in, you know,literally on a you know,
pioneering mission. Right?
That's huge. That's really huge.
Congratulations. I mean, they'revery lucky to have you as a
leader.
Michael Spiller (28:11):
Thank you. And it didn't go perfectly, but it
went really, really well. And Ilearned a ton, and almost no one
got sick. Yeah,
Lisa Hopkins (28:19):
that's amazing.
That's amazing. What did youlearn that you're going to take
away with you and yourleadership?
Michael Spiller (28:24):
Well, I think I learned I need to, I need to
lean in harder to some of thethings that still are less
attractive or more scared me orI just rather avoid and, you
know, it's one thing is trickyis that the job description of a
(28:47):
producing director varies job tojob. You know, I think I know
what my strengths are. And Ithink I can get better at saying
more of that upfront, which istricky, because you're trying to
get the job, when you'reinterviewing. You don't want to
go in too hard. It's like, Well,I'm not gonna do this, I'm not
gonna do this. But I'm reallygreat at these things. But I
(29:11):
think having clarity about whatthe least the initial
expectations are and what thedivision of labor is going to
be. And as part of what I loveabout it, again, is that I'm
going to learn something. If Ishow up every day, with my eyes,
my mind, my ears, and my heartopen. And I'm willing, then I
(29:33):
can learn something. And I canshare something and people can
learn from me as well. Yeah.
Lisa Hopkins (29:40):
And you cannot fail. I mean, I believe that if
the goal is not to win, but tolearn, we always learn. If we're
open to it, then we cannot fail.
Michael Spiller (29:51):
I agree. It's sort of for me, I say it's a
beginner's mindset. It's like, Idon't know what I'm gonna
experience today. I'm So I havesome ideas. And I've maybe done
things that are similar, but itis going to be different.
Because this is right now. And,you know, to your point earlier
about, you know, we don't knowwho's walking in with what, you
(30:15):
know, what what's going on intheir in our lives or, you know,
external pressures that areimpacting them. Yep. So there's
a lot of wildcards
Lisa Hopkins (30:26):
for sure, for sure. And wouldn't it be so
dull? If it was, if you if itwas the same all the time? You
wouldn't want to be doing it?
Probably. Right?
Michael Spiller (30:33):
Well, I mean, that relates back to the way I
prep for stuff. Prep is a hugelyimportant part of my process,
and it's evolved, I feel like toaddress some of my fears, and
insecurities, over the years, Ideveloped habits related to
(30:56):
prep, that were meant to, youknow, eliminate variables. And,
and, you know, it's like, I hadto know everything, by draw
ladder diagrams, and blockingblocking diagrams and shot lists
and things. And, you know, like,all we have to do is follow this
roadmap, and then cut out theslates and string it together.
(31:17):
And it'll be exactly how I wantit. And that was a really
limiting kind of approach. So Imean, I, over the years, I did,
maybe a little less of that, orI did it, but my personal
relationship to that work wasone of, well, I've done this so
that I'm prepared, and I can nowignore it, and be open to a
(31:41):
better idea. Over more time, Ifound that, yeah, I was saying
that, but I wasn't really doingthat. I would try and guide
everybody back to what may havebeen the very first idea I had
when I started prepping thatparticular story. That doesn't
(32:02):
mean it's my best idea. And it'salso my idea, rather than, you
know, opening up the process toeveryone else's input. Often,
there's, the actors are going tobring surprises, they're gonna
have ideas, they are not phoningit in. They're not just, you
(32:24):
know, rubber stamping it again.
And if there's not room forthat, there's gonna be conflict.
Yeah. And if you're not nimble,flexible, and trusting, then
you're gonna stumble? Yeah.
Lisa Hopkins (32:43):
It's funny, because I pay really big
attention to the stories in myhead, because that's the work I
do, right. And, you know, therewas a story threatening, which I
completely dismissed, becauseI'm getting really good at
going, that's just a story, thenI don't believe it, which was
that he didn't fit this beforeyou sent your thing. He didn't
fill out the form that we'llstart going, Oh, he's probably
too busy. He probably thinksit's a press junket, he probably
(33:06):
doesn't even know why he's here.
Why is even coming to be on thepodcast, he probably doesn't
want to talk about like, youknow, so I wholeheartedly went
through and just did whatever Ido, you know, prepping for our
interview and researching youand enjoying getting to know you
a little bit. And then you sentthe thing like, half an hour,
and I just thought it was sogiving, I was like, suddenly it
was like he is sees the oppositeof what my voice was telling me
(33:28):
in my head. And had you not sentthat you're the same person.
Just because you sent it doesn'tmean you're a different person,
you just happen to be able tosend it, I would have been going
on the pretext for the shorttime that we're together in our
scene together, that I will be alittle defensive. You know,
like, it's so funny, right? Whenwe believe the stories in our
(33:48):
head.
Michael Spiller (33:51):
Yeah, that is the sort of thing that that I I
would have been right there withyou had the rope in reverse. I
would have spun a very elaboratestory. Yeah. And gotten myself
into that victim mindset. And,you know, she thinks she's doing
me a favor, you know, all thissort of, like this nonsense.
It's just like, why, but I am. Iam sorry that I did. Oh, no, I
(34:15):
didn't get it to you soonerbecause I hate that I created an
opportunity for you to knowyourself that story.
Lisa Hopkins (34:22):
It was it was perfect, because the story did
not get very far. I mean, it wasliterally like, like a shredded
script. And it did not lastnight. I said,
Michael Spiller (34:31):
Well, I mean, it's that fear of the unknown.
You know, we tell ourselves astory going into it. Exactly.
And, you know, as I said,Because I woke up in the middle
the night I didn't sleep andyeah, you know, and I almost
reached out and said, Can wefind it another time? But I felt
like I was in a good space andthat maybe my guard would be
(34:54):
down or the stories would bequieter, you know? And I could
just show up and So far, sogood.
Lisa Hopkins (35:06):
Oh, now she's gonna ask the big one now. Hey,
so it's interesting way back,you mentioned and it was so
funny because I felt that talkabout synergy in that moment was
as if you read my mind, becauseI was gonna ask you, what are
your strengths? And as I wasthinking, you said, I know my
strengths, and you didn't tellme what they were. So I'm super
curious, because it actually wasa question of mine. What, you
(35:30):
know, just put, you know, puthumility to the side and like,
what do you think? Are yourunique strengths? Or what do you
feel? Are your very differentthan thinking? What do you feel
are your unique strengths?
Michael Spiller (35:42):
Yeah, I feel like the strengths I have are
that I'm easy to get along with.
I'm creative. I'm an optimist. Ibring a lot of positivity to
most situations, and certainlylike onset, I love to
(36:03):
collaborate. I truly respect thepeople that I'm working with,
what do
Lisa Hopkins (36:13):
you think is your Achilles heel?
Michael Spiller (36:16):
Um, sensitivity can be a double edged sword. I
think, you know, if you'resensitive and empathetic, I
think that's only a good thing.
But, you know, my feelings canbe hurt. And, you know, I might
retreat in certain situations.
(36:39):
And, and, you know, I'm animperfect human being. And, you
know, I have that voice in myhead telling me a story. And,
you know, if the rightcombination of things happen, or
I walk into somethingpredisposed to it, it's possible
that, that that will creep inand impact my performance. So,
(37:01):
yeah, that's one thing. Yeah, Imean, I guess that's, I'm sure
there's other stuff. But that'swhat's coming to me, ya
Lisa Hopkins (37:10):
know, for sure.
Thank you for sharing that. I'mso curious to know how you as
someone else, if someone elsewas, was directing the Michael
spiller show or portraying you,what what is it that you hope
that you're projecting to theworld? I hear a lot of it, I
hear the kindness, the empathy,the openness, the vulnerability?
What's, what's at the backsideof that? Like, what if, what if
(37:34):
you weren't able we lost thescript? What if you couldn't
show up that way?
Michael Spiller (37:41):
Well, I think part of, you know, part of
wanting to be liked. And I dowant to be liked, and at times
that that, you know, impacted mecreatively, because I would not
offer up my opinion ofsomething. Because I thought,
(38:03):
you know, I thinksubconsciously, I thought, if I
agree with this person, or thatperson who's hired me, or is
above me in the hierarchy, youknow, they'll like me, or
they'll want to keep me around.
And I've now grown out of that,and I feel like the reason I'm
hired is, is to express my trueopinion, you know, in a, in a
(38:27):
collaborative way, I'mshortchanging myself in the
project if I don't do that, butI think, you know, looking back
further, like, core character,early childhood stuff. You know,
I grew up in Brooklyn. I movedthere when I was five years old,
right before first grade. And myparents were kind of hippie ish.
(38:49):
And, you know, we moved from NewJersey, so everyone who could at
that time, was leaving Brooklynand going to New Jersey or Long
Island, and we moved toBrooklyn, to a very Italian
neighborhood. You know, the next10 years were like, the first 20
minutes a Goodfellas. And, youknow, I got my ass kicked a
(39:11):
number of times, because I lookdifferent than my parents both
work as only child, you know, insome ways, I kind of raised
myself. I was sort of veryindependent from a very young
age. You know, when I was 12, or13, I began to sort of get tired
of being an outsider and gettingbeat up. You sort of reinvent
(39:34):
myself, like a parallel versionof myself. I passed for Italian.
I've since discovered through23andme. There's a little bit of
truth to that. But, you know, Iwould tell people that I was
half the time my mother wasItalian, and cultivated my
Brooklyn accent and basicallybecame a version of who I
(39:55):
thought The world would accept,because I got the message very
young, that if you knew the realme, you'd reject me, or you'd
beat me up, or you'd ignore him.
So, you know, it's been alifelong process to understand
(40:21):
that, correct that and adjustand recalibrate that. Recognize
it and say, you know, as yousaid, that's, that was true then
and at some level, that skillhelped me survive. Again, these
words survive. And I don't needto do that any longer. And I can
(40:43):
be my authentic self. And Ithink people who've been with me
on set, know that I can be, Ican be loud, and exuberant, and
command attention all in a fun,playful way. But I'm very shot.
(41:05):
So I'm, you know, but I havesocial anxiety. You know, I
don't, I don't like being acenter of attention, I think
not, you know, having thisanxiety about people's names,
like in social situations, like,
Lisa Hopkins (41:22):
it must be really interesting. In this context,
especially, I mean, if I was ayoung filmmaker, or some wanting
to be a director or something,and I met you, at one of these
parties, that you probablydidn't want to be out or
whatever. That must be reallybizarre for you, in a way. I
mean, thank God, you're a givingperson and you want to, just
(41:43):
obviously, you're helping young,young people. But is that a
strange experience for you tolike, I mean, when they see all
that you've done, they're justgoing to, like, target you.
Right? going, Oh, I gotta have aconversation with that guy.
Like, how does that feel foryou? Is that is that a? It's
kind of a paradox in a way,right? Because,
Michael Spiller (42:02):
I guess I mean, I do recognize it. And I mean,
first of all, I won't lie tohave anybody come up and say,
like, they're a fan of yourwork, or, you know, even to this
day, people come up to me andtalk about movies I shot, you
know, like, how Hartley films tochange their life. And it's
like, like, nothing's betterthan that. I could hear that all
(42:25):
day long. And not, because it'slike feeding my ego. It's just
like, an actual humanconnection. You know, that helps
me understand that. The workthat I'm doing, I've devoted my
life to mean something. Youknow, it's I struggle with that,
like, 10 years, what have Idone? Like, was that was crap
mean? You know, it's like, theyhaven't touched anybody? Nope. I
(42:47):
have, I've been a part of workthat has been important and has
caused people joy or anemotional reaction. And I'm
proud of that. And it'svaluable, and it's meaningful,
and it's necessary. But whenpeople come up, and you know, I
can relate to the, Oh, I see,they might be nervous, or
(43:11):
they're waiting, and they wantto say hi. Like, I tried to just
be as welcoming as possible. Imean, obviously, situations can
vary, but if it's a mixer, orsome sort of event, you know, TV
Academy, or Directors Guild orsomething like that, where
that's the whole purpose of it.
I mean, I'm, I'm an open book,and I give people my email
(43:33):
address, phone number, and let'scontinue this conversation. And
it's, you know, maybe one ofthese days, I wanted to
teaching, you know, full time orsomething like that, but it is
something I really love, becauseI love talking about the work, I
love talking about my process, Ilove trying to help foster and
nourish a different kind ofenvironment on set and a
(44:00):
different kind of mindset. Youknow, the days of people
screaming and yelling andtreating each other poorly, you
know, on every level, have to beending. Those have to it's not,
there's just no reason for it.
And that there never was, but itwas, you know, the environment I
(44:20):
grew up in professionally wasvery, very different than it is
today. And I'm quite gratefulfor that. And I've played
whatever small role in that, butI can continue to and also I
feed off their energy andenthusiasm and excitement then
(44:40):
they re inspire me, andhopefully, whatever nuggets I
share can inspire them and so,yeah, but I, I can I can
recognize that you know, theshoe being on the other foot and
that instance is there is a Anirony to that.
Lisa Hopkins (45:02):
Totally. Yeah, no, totally. What's one one
highlight and one low light ofyour career so far? Is there one
that like really stands out as ahighlight one that stands out as
a low light?
Michael Spiller (45:11):
I mean, the sort of big highlight of, of
winning and MB was, you know, isan obvious answer. And yet, it's
still, it was hard to beat thatmoment. I mean, that was truly
(45:33):
incredible. That was a clichedhighlight. But that was a
highlight something
Lisa Hopkins (45:38):
cliched about it.
And if it happens, it's likewhen people say, you know, it's
not bragging if you did it,right. I mean, you won the Emmy.
On it, man. Good for you. Yeah.
Yeah. I love it.
Michael Spiller (45:53):
And then yeah, I mean, lowlights. I've been let
go on jobs twice, in my career,and, you know, is really
painful. In each instance, I wasable to really look at it and
(46:15):
examine like, Okay, I first ofall, I'm entitled to feel sad
and confused or angry, and, youknow, all the any emotion I feel
I didn't try and talk myself outof. And I thought this is a
chance to, like, not replay inmy head every moment and give it
(46:40):
weight or import that wasn'tthere and think, oh, that's the
thing that did it, you know,that was the thing that broke
the camel's back, or, but tolook at my role in it, and just,
you know, honestly, and, andalso consult with people who
were present, and say, you know,were there things that I missed?
Were there things that I couldhave done better? You know, how
(47:01):
can I learn from this? And, youknow, in both instances, it
wasn't like I did one thing thatcaused it, you know, there's an
alchemy and a chemistry to allthe different moving parts and
offense like, well, you can'tfire the director, you know,
(47:22):
when the, you know, some willfire the DP, you know, or can't
rearrange the whole writingroom, you know, this stage of
the game, let's, you know, swapout the producing director, and
maybe that will address stuff.
So, there's a lot of thosefactors. And, you know, because
I'm not paying myself as avictim, there were things that I
(47:46):
could have done differently,that maybe would have, you know,
change the outcome. Yeah.
Lisa Hopkins (47:58):
But you chose what you thought was best in the
moment. And I really believethat I believe that we all do
the very best we can in anygiven moment. And that has to do
with what we're talking aboutwhat access you have, to what
lenses to what choices andsometimes, you know, and within
whatever Lens we're lookingthrough, we make the best
choice. We're the other lensesthere. Yes. Did you have access?
(48:21):
Probably not. Right. So so it'sso there's no sort of, and I
love that and lessons learned100% from everything and gifts
to be gained? You know, but Ibet you could probably, if we
had another hour together, youcould probably carve out, you
know, gosh, you know, had thatnot happen? Yes, I would have
not only would I not havelearned this, but also, you
(48:45):
know, there's all sorts ofthings. Dominoes, right? It's,
Michael Spiller (48:48):
I'm glad you brought that up, because it is
something that I remind myselfof, and I, when I talk to my
kids about this stuff, you know,because they're, they're still
in school, medical. Everything'slooming ahead, what are what are
my options going to be? And it'slike, you know, one decision one
job, one, you know, I don'tknow, aside your place somewhere
(49:13):
as an internship, or something'slike any of those things can
just change the completedirection of your life. And, you
know, I know that I'm sittinghere talking to you, at this
moment, because of everydecision, and every action I've
taken my entire life. So if anyone of those if anything had
(49:36):
been done differently, Iwouldn't be here in this moment
speaking to you. So, you know,we're where we are, because of
all the choices and actions andbehaviors and things that we've
done good and bad, you know, inquotes throughout our lives, so.
Lisa Hopkins (49:54):
Yep. 100% What value were you honoring? Because
you said you weren't feelingwell? All today, but that you
decided to come anyways. Andpart of it, you explained was
because well actually, thismight be good because
vulnerability is important tome. I know that's important to
you. And I'm feeling a littlebit vulnerable, a little bit
rough around the edges because Ididn't get my sleep. Talk to me
a little bit about why youshowed up today, what value you
(50:17):
were honoring?
Michael Spiller (50:18):
Well, I try to be someone who will honor their
commitments. You know, I made acommitment to show up today and
you set aside time and you sentme stuff and that, you know, you
kept up your end of it. So Ineeded to, and I think I've done
okay, I'm not as tired as Ishould be. I haven't coughed
(50:42):
continually throughout, which isgood to hear amazing. Yeah, so I
mean, commitment. Commitmentmeans a lot to me. And, like any
human, I have not done thatperfectly. You know, I haven't,
I haven't honored everycommitment perfectly in my life,
and, but I strive to, I striveto, to be the best version of
(51:06):
myself. I can be every day. AndI try to build routines and
support structure for myself tohelp that and, you know, there
are times I think, I don't wantto just other people have to do
this stuff for they just, again,this sort of comparing and you
know, just imagining what otherpeople do or don't do. And so I
(51:31):
don't dwell on that, becausethat, that will lead me to
feeling like I'm a victim. And,you know, I'm here, I'm doing
okay, I'm still breathing. I'vegot a family that loves me, and
I love them and got friends andmany cats and, you know, and if,
(51:54):
if things change, and you know,life takes an unexpected turn,
I'll be okay. We'll figure itout.
Lisa Hopkins (52:03):
Yeah, totally.
Totally. What do you know, willwill stay true about you, no
matter what happens.
Michael Spiller (52:14):
I know that my love of laughing will stay with
me. Both sides of my family justlove telling stories and love
laughing and they're very, verydifferent people. But it's, you
know, telling a story is free.
And you know, it's it's all weit's what I do for a living. And
(52:40):
it's what humans have done. Youknow, since we began to
communicate, you know, for manydifferent reasons, and yeah, and
when they get when they includelaughter That's a good thing.
Lisa Hopkins (52:56):
I love it.
Amazing. All right, we're gonnado I say what makes you and then
I'll just say a word and thenyou can say what comes to mind.
Alright, so what makes youhungry?
Michael Spiller (53:13):
Smelling
Lisa Hopkins (53:17):
what makes you sad?
Michael Spiller (53:19):
You want feeling lonely?
Lisa Hopkins (53:22):
What inspires you?
People what frustrates you,people? What makes you laugh?
Michael Spiller (53:35):
People? So as for I love it. No, it's great.
And my cats my cats make melaugh.
Lisa Hopkins (53:41):
What makes you angry?
Michael Spiller (53:43):
close minded.
Hey, holes.
Lisa Hopkins (53:48):
Yeah. And finally, what makes you grateful?
Everything what are the topthree things that have happened
so far today?
Michael Spiller (54:03):
The sun is shining. I showed up for this.
And so far I don't have COVIDtoday. I love it.
Lisa Hopkins (54:13):
What's something you really looking forward to
both today? And then let's gometa and tell me in the future
what you're looking forward to.
Michael Spiller (54:20):
I'm looking forward to what's next. For me
professionally, I don't knowwhere my next job is. There's
some stuff that's sort ofpercolating. This is a it's been
a bit of a stretch without work.
So I'm enjoying being home andbeing with my wife and building
a woodshop in my garage, which Ireally love. And I'm ready to
(54:43):
get back on set and put it intopractice. All the things that
I've learned,
Lisa Hopkins (54:51):
Michael, I really I so appreciate you taking the
time to be in the moment with metoday.
Michael Spiller (54:56):
I really, really do. It's my pleasure. I
got a lot out of it. as well,it's
Lisa Hopkins (55:00):
been great to get to know you and super excited
for what's coming next. I'vebeen speaking today with Michael
spiller. Thanks for listening,stay safe and help everyone and
remember to live in the moment.
In music stop time is thatbeautiful moment where the band
is suspended and rhythmicunison, supporting the soloist
to express their individuality.
(55:24):
In the moment, I encourage youto take that time and create
your own rhythm. Until nexttime, I'm Lisa Hopkins. Thanks
for listening
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