446: WWF Survivor Series '91 Deep Dive

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
What is up everyone out there and Internet land, And
welcome to episode four forty six of the Straight Shooters
available wherever podcasts are found. My name is Vaughan Johnson,
and I'm joined as always by my main man Pots
and Pans, Nick Pocona crossing broad in Fox PHL The Gambler,
and we have yet another fantastic show ahead of us
here on episode four forty six. It is a deep dive.

(00:38):
We are diving deep into the nineteen ninety one Survivor
series The Gravest Challenge from November nineteen ninety one Thanksgiving Eve,
nineteen ninety one. But before we dig into that show
and everything else around it, I gotta do more weekly
check in on my main man, Pots and Pans. Nick.
How are you on this Thursday evening?

Speaker 2 (00:59):
My good brother, I am the proud owner of a new,
state of the art, one of a kind VCR. No,
you're not, I am. I am. This past weekend I
got me a VCR from where some random guy on

(01:21):
Facebook marketplace from New Jersey thirty bucks?

Speaker 1 (01:27):
But uh thirty So what did you paid that much
money for?

Speaker 2 (01:29):
Well, you know you got Amazon. There are three hundreds
so I oh my god, we're pretty good for a VCR.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
I guess it's so rare. Technology is not exist non existent,
damn near at this point exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
And my so, I have a VCR slash DVD recorder
combo that I got back in like two thousand and eight.
Two thousand and seven, when I started recording like the daily, daily,
weekly raws and smackdowns, even TNA Impact I was recording,
I moved from VHS to DVD, so I got one

(02:03):
of those. I think it was like oh eight ish,
it might have been oh seven, and I've moved two
or three times since then, so I brought it with
me and I've been like careful with it during moving.
But apparently I guess when I moved here something happened.
It just doesn't work anymore, especially the VCR part. So

(02:26):
I wound up. I had a bunch of old VHS's
and in storage for years. Now they all are with
me and where I live, so there's nothing in storage anymore.
I have all my whole collection with me, and I
you know, I can't watch these tapes, and not that
I'm going to sit down and watch every single tape,

(02:48):
but at least I know these tapes can be viewed. Still,
you know, the VCR works. It works, It's perfect. It's
a DVD player slash VCR combo thirty bucks man. I'm
happy about it because you know, now, listen, we watched
these old shows and we can tell something's dubbed it over.
I might go grab my tape, put it in and

(03:09):
be like, let me, I'm gonna hear whatever.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Really sounds like, let's let's do a cut comparison.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
So you mean when you think about it, like, I
don't know, maybe Peacock still you'll see No, if you
taped it live, you won't see all the coliseum video stuff.
So yeah, I would like to do a comparison of
the the original cut versus the I won't say the
YA or whatever the home video release that they would do.
So I think they exercise.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Obviously they dubbed you know, the music too, so I
think we were having a discussion a few episodes ago
about music and how it's doufed.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
I mean, we have it for every w c W
show because they give you Chris Jericho his WWF song,
or they give DDP like some fact simile of Nirvana
something like that. So they'll give Goldberg his wwwwe theme
on w shows sometimes, which is like bizarre corou.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
I do have nitros from ninety six, ninety seven, ninety eight,
ninety nine taped ww pay per views, so I could
easily go back obviously. So the boxes I have, they
fit about fifty six VHS tapes to a box, and
I have about thirteen of those. So I have about
seven hundred tapes just wrestling tapes. Yeah, and there's a

(04:24):
couple of boxes of just DVDs and stuff of wrestling.
I'm not including those. I'm including just the VHS H
tapes that I have. Obviously, I didn't count one by one.
I'm just rounding because I've put as many tapes as
I could in one box, and just like, okay, I
have thirteen of those, So thirteen times fifty six, let's

(04:45):
let's see what that kind of was a little over
seven hundred.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
So so next time we do a deep dive, you
gotta pull my tape out the box like a game
we play, just pull a pull a tape out and
like random randomly select the tape and then just pulls out.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
You watch the in your house too. I don't think
I have that one. I don't know. There's a few
that I taped when w W had WW on demand
and uh, and they aired it on there, so it
would be the same thing we see on a you know,
Peacock or Netflix or whatever. So there are a few
events that I did not tape or I taped over

(05:18):
when I was younger, that I wound up retaping when
it was w W on demand. So there, I think,
like Sarvivira series ninety one is an example of that.
I don't believe I taped it live, so I taped
when they re aired it on demand, and so that
would have they probably would have it obviously would have
been edited from that point, I would have you would

(05:41):
assume even though it wasn't WW network, it was pre
WW network days. But I'm pretty sure they still dubbed
things back then. I'm sure. Yeah, I have a lot
of that that I could go through. I was. I
was even I put in a Serviva series ninety five
just to see if it was working. It was during
the Undertaker's entrance with the Phantom of the operat type

(06:03):
mask and everything else. Yes, awesome, but that was from
on demand. Don't have you on demand? So there are
some old ones from literally that I did tape in
like the ninety one years that I would like to
put in to see how it looks or how it sounds,
just to eventually like compare it if I can, like

(06:26):
maybe a Wrestle eighty seven or something like that. But yeah, man,
like I'm kind of jazz for that because I finally
I have my whole collection here with me and I
have a means to watch it. I could easily find
it in one of the thirteen boxes. I mean maybe
not easily, but I'll have to brew some stuff around.
But I you know, they're all organized in a way

(06:50):
that won't make it a chore to go through and find,
Like I should be able to do it pretty quickly
if I if there's a certain show or even just
a promo or something that one of the vhs is
on top of one of the boxes. Was the raw
from ninety eight where d X did the skit on

(07:12):
the Nation and when they wore black face, and that
was that's on my tape as it aired on the US.
Stastic I guess no, I'm just saying like, I don't
know if they edited anything. I haven't seen that in forever,
so if it was available on Peacock. I don't know
if it was edited or.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
I mean, what if they might not have it's just
an episode of Raw. But I feel like a Peacock
thought about it and they knew that this segment was
on and they'd be like, remove that whole episode, just
get rid of it, get it out of here.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
And it wouldn't surprise me because like I don't expect.
I don't go searching that stuff out. But I just
found it funny that I was on the top of
one of my boxes. Just it's just that because I
used to tape an SP mode before I realized like
the longer. Even though the quality lessons a little bit
in the picture, you just still fit more on a

(08:06):
tape if you go to like EP or SLP mode.
Oh remember, Yeah, So that's what I started doing in
like late ninety eight, early ninety nine, so I could
fit more shows into the VHS. So a lot of
my and obviously when I taped Nitro and Raw from
like ninety seven, ninety six to ninety seven, that was
from WW on demand when they would you know, just

(08:29):
re upload those, So those aren't like originals. But I
do have originals from like ninety eight on from both
like Raw SmackDown, Nitro Thunder. Yeah, I taped it all.
It's kind of crazy Lord.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
So yeah, that'll be a fun little exercise at some
point that you just pull a tape out the box
and that's what we're diving deep into, so it should
be fun. Oh.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
I also have CMLL what World Wrestling Council, because they
used to air these show I had the Latin American
package because I saw it's funny saying it out loud.
But the Comcast before it was Exfinity. It was basically
just comcasts still, and we had like digital cable, that's

(09:13):
what it was that was marketed as and.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
They had a digital cable, I remember digital gable.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, they had a Latin package with those shows on it,
and I would see on the guide Super Stay, Stay,
Lucer Libra and I was like, oh, like, let me
check that out. And I think my mom just got
everything package at one point so I could watch like
the movie channels and then I could watch these uh
you know, Spanish channels and I would watch it obviously

(09:40):
that wrestling was on, and I was like, oh, like
I know some of these guys because they would still
go down. There were still people that would go to
CMLL that were in w W or WCW that I
would recognize back then. Uh, this was like in two
thousand and eight that I recognized these channels existed, so
I started taping those. So I have some tapes of

(10:02):
CMLL and World Wrestling Council, and there is obviously some
impact from two thousand and five through twenty twelve. I
think was like the last twenty twelve was really the
last year I started recording like weekly stuff.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
Look, you should get ww to buy your tape library,
right what you got CMLL World Wrestling Council from Puerto Rico.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
When I would tape on vhs, I would just pause
during the commercials, so I don't have any commercials on those.
But with the DVDs, like it was just tougher to
try and do it that way, so I did have
commercials all through my DVD set. So it's kind of funny.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
I mean, look, that sounds great again I look forward.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
To as a collector, it kind of it just makes
me smile, you know, says like as I was like
I was a collector, I'm not so much anymore. I
collect more sports radio broadcast now wrestling. So I guess
I shifted from wrestling to sports radio broadcasts.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
That makes sense, That makes sense. But yeah, we gotta
we gotta get to this at some point. We gotta
do some We got some work to do, and it
comes to that tape library of yours. But let's get
into the current day nonsense. We're coming to you a
day after AW held Blood and Guts on national television,
which is not the first time they've done that, I
don't think, but it still feels like this feels like

(11:30):
a pay per view. But I get the day half
Full Gear coming up, and this is kind of that
in between time between pay per views. So you want
to make a show.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
I guess they can't do it in full year, but
I want to do it in November when w W
has work games. I guess, yeah, sure, people are talking
about that, but I'm just kind of I've been so
removed from like wrestling discourse the last like year. I
want to say that, really I only engage in wrestling
talk while we're doing the podcast.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
I mean, look for one to your point, Uh, there's
gonna be four War Games matches this month, so between
a W and w W, I know, blood and guts
is called blood and guts, but it's a war Games match.
The only difference is that one has a top on
it and the other one doesn't. Uh. And the one
promotion allows a lot of blood and a lot of violence,
and the other one is mostly tame but still still

(12:20):
quality matches, right, But blood and guts last night delivered
on the blood and not the guts, but definitely a
lot of blood. I can't. I don't know if I'm
still can rock with Marina Schaffeur being barefoot and stepping
on glass, that feels a little bit dangerous. She's you know, tough, tougher,

(12:40):
you know what they used to say, tougher to that
two dollars steak, but like tough, like tough move, but
like not one I would advise, uh. In just in general,
glass you can't unless just like sugar glass, let's just
fake glass, which I know that was a point of
contention for Jack Perry once upont once upon a time.
But if it's not real glass, okay, you're doing it

(13:01):
for the vibes and the visuals, but if it's real glass,
don't cry me a river when you get cut. Okay, Okay,
all right, y'all playing, But I thought both of the
matches were good. I did enjoy the finish, I would
say to this the second one. I think the finish
was good and the fact that it furthered was hopefully

(13:24):
with further the death Brider story, and that John Moxley
is kind of a chump when he gets put in
submission moves, but he loves stabbing people with forks, like
he came right in the match and stabbed Kyle Rally
in the head like seven times. It was crazy, but
the match itself was fine. The women's match I think

(13:46):
was better overall. I didn't love the finish as much
because the whole deal was at Man, Tony Storm and
the Sheer Cows like teammates. They were all They couldn't
get back into the cage because I think the door
was locked or something. Because they got out the cage
and the door was locked so they couldn't get back in.
I thought there wasn't a roof on top. At first,

(14:06):
I'm like, can't they just climb over? But they couldn't,
so I guess that did what Even though Willie Nightingale
was still in the ring so he could have done something.
I guess, but I guess she was incapacitated. But I'm
between both matches not a huge fan of everybody getting
out of the damn cage. That's the whole point of
war games, that they're all fighting in the cage together.
And the Men's mastic took Darby Allen to the stage

(14:28):
and then tossed them off of a platform through a
flaming table.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
Both matches had people not in the cage. Like I
just I don't get it.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Man, not a fan of that. We paid for war games,
so everything happens in that cage, bro Like, I understand that,
like hell on the Cell matches have done it, and
even maybe traditional cage matches have done it, but I
feel like wargames or Blood and Guts should be special.
And I know they've left the cage sometimes in the past.
I know they've gotten on top of the cage, and aw,

(14:59):
I just I'm just not a fan of it, and
to do it in both matches feels like a bit
much to kill.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
It's I just don't This is why. Maybe not the
the reason, but I'm just so not enjoying current wrestling
just because I see spots that just don't make sense.
And maybe it's me just I'm not. I wouldn't say

(15:26):
I'm growing out of wrestling because I still love to
watch it, and especially when they have like hot periods.
There's something funner than watching wrestling when it's good. But
when it's boring and you're not invested in a lot
of it, it is a chore to watch. And both
main promotions wn A W right now, for me, it's

(15:46):
been a chore to watch. So like, I'll put it on.
But man, like I couldn't tell you what happened to match, Yeah,
I'll tell you like finishes. I know Chelsea Green beat
Julia last week, but that's it. I don't know what.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Happened in like thirty seconds. And we have a new
Intercontinental champion and his name is some guy, some up
and comer named Jonathan Sina. Nice, you're the Jonathan sena.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Right, rookie extraordinaire.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
Rookie upstart. He's retiring in a couple of days, not
a couple of days, a couple of weeks, I guess.
But yeah, John Cena is a new Intercontinental champion for
the first time in his career. Only Toddley hasn't won.
And that was the most exciting thing that happened at
WW this week, at least so far. We still got
smacked Down, but based on recent memory, it won't top

(16:36):
that because SmackDown has been borderline abysmo for a while.
Even though I think Jay Cargo being the Women's Champion
is the right decision, but I think to your point,
I think both shows need I would say AW needs
to get their talent back that's been injured, specifically well
Ospray and Swerves Strickland and MJF needs to come back

(16:58):
to They really need those three guys. Uh, you can't
overstate how important uh MJF promo is, Uh will I
Spray promo and match And I'm gonna say MJF can't wrestle,
of course he can, and Swerve his just his horror
and the kind of what he brings to the table
As an overall package, I think they need all three

(17:19):
of those guys who are fresher faces, at least to
the wider audience. Then let's say, uh not Coke. Can't
even say Coke, he's not even around. But like you've
seen Moxley in that spot for a while, Kyle Raley
isn't gonna be like a huge top start anytime soon,
even though he's got this thing going with Moxley. We've
seen Darby Allen for a long time and it's like,
at some point you got to either make him the

(17:40):
top guy or I don't know, but we've been kind
of building for that for a long time. So they
need they need a jolt from guys who are injured,
and just a jolt in general. I think, uh, and
this is not just an aw problem, but it's little.
It's it just doesn't have the juice right now, unfortunately,

(18:00):
and even at the people that are at the shows
aren't like super lively, like it feels like a stark
contrast from from where they were like in twenty twenty one,
twenty two, and of course that's when they had Cim
Punk and we talked about it at the time that
they will miss see him punk, and you see now
how much they missed seeing Punk. Okay, but I think

(18:21):
they just it just doesn't have to juice right now.
I don't know what what do they do to get
that besides get these guys back from injury. But we've
seen them before, right, so there's no like up and
coming talent like like oh, I can. I can see
them being a future top person. Those people honestly were
there then they went to WWE, like Mariah May and

(18:42):
Ricky Saints. And I wouldn't say necessarily Ethan Page even
though he could have been a top he probably should
be a top guy in AW why not, Like, I
don't know what they were waiting for with some of
these some of these talents, Jade car Gill, I mean,
did they put the TBS title on it, but should
have made a world champion in my opinion at some
point before she left. But either way, they need something
in WWE. Man, they need a lotro.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
You've listed a lot of good stuff. I was gonna
mention somebody with Joe too, like I get air done that,
Like that's not even getting to me. But man, you
look at WWE and what they do is it's probably
worse given talent.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
I was, yeah, because like you said, they have a
lot of talent, and they got a lot of talent
waiting in the wings that still hasn't really been featured
at a top level yet. And I'm talking about like
people like Oba Femi who's still in NXT, Trick William
still in NXT of course, jv On Evans. I don't
know if he's I think he can be on the
main roster. They can use him, but like last legend
just got on the main roster, feel like full time now,

(19:42):
but they're still like people at Carmelo Hayes that they
haven't really fully fleshed out and they're just trying to
try and with the miss but it's not I don't
know if it's really clicking. I don't know. It's just
not quiet working the way it should given the talent
that's there. Uh, Julia, what the hell? What in the world?
It seemed like when she first got there, it is
gonna be man. Stephanie va ker and Julia are gonna

(20:02):
be the top two women for the next five years.
That's the way they positioned them in NXT. And now
Julia is pretty much nowhere to be found. And she
just lost her US title after really not doing anything
with it in thirty seconds. It's like, what what? What?
What happened? What happened? She had, she had a manager
that wasn't working. What's going on? There's no rational explanation

(20:25):
behind it. And then Stephanie va kerres she's the woman's
World champion what's she up to? I guess she's got
turned on by Nicki Bella. So our first real challenge
is Nicki Bella.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
And that took how long?

Speaker 1 (20:36):
It took a while? Took a while, right, So at
least everybody can say, oh, well, we got some talent
that we can probably push. But when, bro, like when
when is it gonna happen? Where are they? They don't
have the excuse of like, oh, some people are hurt.
I know Chad Gables hurt. I know Seth Rollins is hurt,
but not everybody's hurt.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
Right they Kevin hurt too, have the ability to I
don't want to say overcome that, but at least pull
like fit people in Like obviously bron Breaker Bronson reed,
like you have to pair Logan Paul with them, Yeah,
but like there's there's ways you could go about it,
and it's still not hitting. Like no, I remember I

(21:19):
was like, oh, I guess they've got to turn Logan
Paul babyface, and by absolutely should not. The end he
turns on Sam Puncket, It's like, okay, good, why even
tease that? Because you're that starved for something entertaining, Like
I just I haven't been entertained by it, though, so
I don't know what they're gonna do. It makes me

(21:39):
although it kind of did I remember you said something
I think it was in the beginning of twenty twenty
four logan Paul will be a world champion. Now it's
sampunk gonna be the guy he beats for that, Like
I could see that happen.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
I can see that happening. Yeah, I can see that
happening in the future. But I will say the aw's
I'll say big problem right now is they don't have
a lot of top stars, big names that people really
want to see on TV on in the arenas. WW
doesn't have that problem. They got people who people who
you can consider a draw. So it's just the creative

(22:13):
is just not clicking right now. And I think that
wrestling is hard to book for a long period of
time at a high level. I think we've seen it
and at some point everybody kind of runs their course
as a booker that there have been times back in
the day, during the territories where bookers would take six
months on six months off and they kind of pass

(22:34):
it back and forth between them and another partner. I
think Jared Lawlers do that Memphis. I think I'm pretty
sure other territories do the same thing. I can't vividly
remember specific examples off the top of my head, but
I know I've heard of it where it'd be go
back and forth between two people because at some point
you need a creative break. You can't be that creative
on that type of schedule and constantly on that hamster

(22:57):
wheel for that long. Eventually you just went out of ideas.
Multiple jobs, right, and if you're not going to necessarily
fire Triple H, but you can get rid of other
people underneath them and cycle through the writers. But even
still they run out of ideas. It's just it just
feels like they are struggling to just find compelling content.

(23:19):
I think what happened in twenty four, twenty three and
twenty four was that I think overall TV did it better,
but what definitely helped was the Bloodline story. That was
definitely the peak of their storytelling at that time. And
I think we even said at the time, now everything
is great, but man, that Bloodline stuff is incredible, some
of the best stuff they've ever done. And I think

(23:40):
that propelled the whole that helped lift up the whole product.
And set the table for the rest of the product.
But they don't have that central story right now that's
compelling whatsoever. What the bloodline was that on both shows
it wasn't just a SmackDown thing because Cody was on
Raw pretty much the whole time that was happening, and
kind of they had to cross paths again after you

(24:01):
want to word rumble, even though the Rock came in
and said I'll do that for you. I got that.
But but the point I'm trying to make is that
it just feels like they're just spinning their wheels creatively
at times, and it's coming at the expense of people
that are over like that We're over at least, and
that can still be that they are the stars that

(24:22):
approven commodities in WWE. And it's just it's just not
clicking right now, and I don't know when it will
start againting Like, you know, the problem is you don't
have an off season. And this is again let me
go back and say that this is a problem that
WWE created when they have multiple shows a week and

(24:42):
they do pay per views every month and all that,
and you sign up for all this TV time because
you want the money obviously you want the revenue, but
now you got to create this content two and a
half hours every Monday and two more hours on Friday,
not to mention two more hours on Tuesday for NXT,
which is a separate show. But like still, and.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
That's crazy because we thought, okay, SmackDown going back to
two hours and raw not being three hours anymore.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
It would he help.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
And it's been worse somehow.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, it's just again, it's just they're just it's just
not good right now, plain and simple.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
It's just TKO problem, you know, like are are there
is creative actually coming up with good ideas that are
getting you know.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
I don't, I don't see that. What I see is
a TKO problem is the lack of attendance lately for
w W, which was remember in twenty four, especially in
twenty three and twenty four, they were touting how many
consecutives TV sellouts.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
They were having never heard that while we ever.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
Heard that in a long time, boy, and it with
late twenty twenty five, I don't remember hearing that since
twenty four. Honestly, maybe I'm wrong, but obviously before WrestleMania
they went overseas, so they were obviously packing them into
those shows. But since they came back, it's been tough.
And I've seen photos. The Good Brother Brian and is

(26:03):
the Third Man sent me a photo recently of a
SmackDown I forget where it was, and it was.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
Whoo tarped off a lot of seats.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
So many seats, so many like half the arena look
like and Cody Roach is in the ring. So it's like,
all right, what is that problem about. I don't think
that's just solely on creative. Creative may play a part,
because I would assume that when the product is hotter,

(26:34):
the fans that are on you know, that are in attendance,
are more engaged. The fans watching at home are more engaged.
And those fans are watching at home see the atmosphere
on TV, and then you they see that, it's like
I gotta be there, and they buy those tickets. I
think that's what helped WW get sell all those tickets.
To begin with. They put Bad Bunny on the show,

(26:54):
and they had Bad Bunny make that entrance in Puerto Rico,
and it made w W look incredible. It made WW
like the place to be, and I think that's what
helped spur them.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
I felt like the ticket sales in some ways.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
It really did it. That entrance alone was like, wow,
wwe might be back right, And then of course the
j Uso stuff happened in Paris last year. I was
like whoa like So those atmospheres I think helped spur
And of course again great creative with the whole Roman
Reigns bloodline, Cody Roase thing. I think fans got behind

(27:29):
that so much and they were so captivated by that,
and the Rock came back and he was this whole
new character. There's so much going on that I think
helped it. But none of the things, none of those
things have happened since then. Unfortunately, they haven't really been
overseas that much lately. They don't have the Rock or
the Roman Reigns is barely around.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
You know, the Cody road stuff with whatever he's doing
is not that compelling. Uh And they no Bad Bunny too.
So yeah, it's it's it's rough right now. I don't
But I also think it's not just creative, like I said,
I think it's also you're pricing a lot of people out.
Bro Wrestling traditionally is not a rich person's deal. I

(28:08):
don't know if rich people see WWE or wrestling in
general in that light of like high brow entertainment. You know,
maybe maybe not, though I don't it's usually not that
wrestling has traditionally been a working class spectator sport. That
makes sense, right where from the territories it's the local

(28:31):
community coming out, everybody from eight to eighty, and then
eventually with like and even back then it was family oriented.
You wanted people to bring their kids to the show, right,
so you got instead of one ticket, you're selling three
or four tickets for the kids. Right. So that's kind
of how it's always been. And now WW is trying
this new thing for wrestling where they said, well, these

(28:54):
tickets are going up, and if you can't afford them,
so bit, we're not worried about bringing them families in.
Shapiro literally said this. He's like, Thence McMahon kept them
prices down for a long time, and we did it wrong.
He didn't take advantage of the product.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Not supposed to turn people on. In Vincent Man's side, right,
that's what he did.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
That's what he did in that instance. And the thing
is the problem is wrestling with the economy, the way
it is, there's less exposed disposable income, and wrestling is
just not one of those things that people just set
aside money for. They set aside money for vacations, and
they bills and they mortgaged things like that. But pro wrestling, I'll.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
Skip about it somewhere and if I want to watch it,
I'll go watch it on the man.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah. So it's interesting to see how both of these
promotions will, you know, look to turn it around in
twenty twenty five, and what it would look like for
both of these promotions. Because you got WrestleMania in Las
Vegas again for the second year in a row. What
is that going to look like? What are those ticket
prices going to look like, what is the attendance going
to look like? And also how many tickets will WW

(30:04):
giveaway to fill that building.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
Up that Yep, and the promos are starting air or two.
I just cannot be less interested.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Right, They look bad, They're playing poker.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
How is that supposed to get me to want to
watch WrestleMania?

Speaker 1 (30:18):
Ain't no way.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Something is a brand in and of its own, But
that's the best you can come up with.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Look it really just ever since WrestleMania forty. They have struggled,
and we said it at the time, this was the peak.
This was the moment that probably made some new fans.
The problem is, where you have a peak, a valley
usually follows, and it's how you weather that. Right, you
can have a valley, but I don't mean how. It

(30:47):
doesn't have to go that far down, you know, and
it doesn't have to last that long, right, but it's
it's been steadily declining for the last year and change
since wrestling forty, when now is like the absolute peak
wrestlming your forty one would not count as that for
me at all. That anything, that was the first signs.

(31:07):
I think that was people's first sign of like, oh,
this might not be good anymore.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
Well, you know, honestly, for me, it was a royal rumble.
Not that I hated jay Usi winning, but you know,
they the royal rumbles, I think when a lot of
people were like, what what is going on? Because the
event wasn't good to begin with, and then you had
Charlotte winning and then jay Usi winning, so people were
kind of like huh. And then the elimination chamber tried
to rectify that and.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
Yeah, because they were already struggling to sell tickets for
Elimination Chamber, and that's why they called the rock out.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Man. I was like, Okay, this wouldn't happen under Vince's watch,
so let's see what happens. And it wound up not
working just because it did not what happened after that,
So and it's been for since that point, it's been
almost a year of me just being like, Okay, when
when am I gonna be kind of interested in what's
happening again?

Speaker 1 (31:59):
When something going to happen, When something going to happen.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
I was begging for Drew to beat Cody for the title.
That's random SmackDown when they just started to fight each other.
To give me a little something, even if Cody wins
it back at Saturday Night's main event, give me something.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
They're not match. They're not even gonna have a match
that Survivor series. Cody's gonna be a limit in the
War Games.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Yea, what is going on? Like?

Speaker 1 (32:22):
What the hell? I'm agreeing with you? I think Drew
mcintig could easily win that title run this time, and
Cody can win it back at the Rumble. Yeah, your
elimination camp. If you really want to put him with
somebody else, would I guess would be Randy Orton if
you know at some point. But to me, Cody losing
the title is fine. Everybody loses bat like, come on,

(32:44):
we need to shake up and then like whatever Cody
is doing is so hot that we need to keep
it going. It doesn't feel like Steve Austin. But even
Steve Austin lost the.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
Title, they made him chase it from September to back
to March. He was a Philly.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
You're telling me Cody chasing the title wouldn't help, right now?
Come on, bro that it does? It just they're played.
They play it real safe with a lot of their
booking decisions. And the most spontaneous thing they've done recently
was good john Ston the title. Think about how crazy
that sounds.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
It's the Eagles offense.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
Is that Kevin Botulo booking the shows.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
That John c the tunnel and was then.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
It's a worked out. It worked for w W. They
at least got big pop out of it. Nothing in
complete passed with the Eagles for turnover on downs almost
lost the game. Now A J.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
Brown, I'm not even mad about that. By the way,
because hey, if he save retires champion, they run a tournament,
it would be hilarious if Tom just wins it back.
I don't. I don't actually anticipate that happening, but you know,
at least it gave us something to be like, oh okay, yeah,
I haven't had that and how long?

Speaker 1 (34:01):
So long? And I'm not talking about TV either, Like
I'm not saying somebody has the title changes on TV.
The pay per views come and go as if they
never happened, right, And that's not good, especially when you
do them every month. It's just like, don't do them
every month. Then don't do them every month. This is
your choice to do these every month. You didn't have
to do wressele Losa. You rushed it because he has

(34:23):
the of the ESPN deal and then you did nothing.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
Everyone was Everyone was like, Okay, they're going to make
it a big deal. Sorew is gonna win here? Didn't happen?
Like nope, It's like leave us, like okay, when when
is it gonna happen? That's when they beat Austin in September.
He could have done it right then and there because
he Cody won it and h Cody, but.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
Already had a year long reign. He just did this.
He just did this from WrestleMania to WrestleMania this. I
know he just wanted a summer Slam, so it hasn't.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Been that long.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
But like, who cares. We're not in the business of
counting the days of championship rings. I know we did
it with Roman reigns, but that was a special occasion.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
Cody is not going to reach that.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
So why telling me that the people would care if
he lost it on day two oh three?

Speaker 2 (35:15):
No, no, and that it was the perfect setup for
Drew to win. He like goaded Cody into that. Cody
wasn't in his gears, Like Drew can come out, would
a win there, like a cheap win and become champ
and give some you know, dimension to his character at
this point now he suspended it again. But how many

(35:37):
times you could get suspended in storyline before they actually
just fire them? Bro, just firem just get him out.
No sense, he's incorrigible, apparently.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
Speaking of the John Cena Tournament, there is a tournament
about John Cena and the winner of the tournament will
face Johnson in his final match at Saturday night's main
event in a couple of weeks. It is his final match, obviously,
so this is a big deal. They have not released
a bracket for this tournament. They are announcing every match piecemeal,

(36:06):
one by one, which I think is just because they
don't have a bracket.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
Are they gonna have some surprises?

Speaker 1 (36:13):
I hope, I would assume. So they're leaving a surprise
for I think, is it tonight or is it Monday?
There is a surprise opponent coming up soon for somebody
I can't specifically vividly remember. I think Nick All just
announced it. It might be on SmackDown tomorrow. But I
don't think they have a bracket. I think they're kind
of putting it together as they go. They go along
and hoping nobody notice, how because if you put a

(36:36):
bracket out now, you got to be beholden to.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
That, right and then it's like you sneak one person
in there like three times, or like you.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
You kind of manipulate the matchups you want, so like, Okay,
we want this person to face this person in the
second round, so let's do it over here, which I
guess you could do in a bracket, but like I
guess I don't know if they want to do that
much creative man, right, that's way too much time. We
got time for that. Get the tumbler out and have
them pull names out of a hat just randomly. Apparently, Okay,

(37:04):
what if I'm my name? Isn't that Tumblr? What if
like in there? What if the Rock is in there?
You're not gonna pull the Rocks name out, like you know,
wouldn't want the Rock to be in there? Uh, and
give you three three times in the lifetime the Streets
won it. Uh, But I digress. My thing is who

(37:26):
should win John Cena's tournament?

Speaker 2 (37:30):
Who do you got? I mean, I thought Dom was
a good choice before Monday, But now that that's I
don't think that's going to Happen're not going to rematch
first final match, So yeah, man, I have no clue.
Like if Edge wasn't, I guess he's still in a
w right, Like I'd be like, maybe he's he could
be a cool entry, but not happening.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
That's not happening. Like you got a better chance at
Chris Jericho than I don't.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah, I don't care about him. I don't care about
I don't care. Cope, I don't care about Kurdangle not
I know, I know, like who else like would make
see him punk?

Speaker 1 (38:06):
No, I would say, goonther he hasn't been around in
a while.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah, is he ready? Is he coming back soon? I
think he was. I would assume so it's been since August, right, so.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yeah, and give me over for me if they want
to do so.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
A future person, yeah, I mean I would probably rather like.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
He's he's done the gold Rush Tournament right now in
n XT, which is like, okay, well.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
The nostalgia aspect would hit me if it's somebody good,
But I really can't even think of anyone off the
top of my head that I would if it was
then be like yeah, even if it was a young
guy in an XTI or a rookie Carmelo Hayes type person, like,
I don't know, I don't know what would get me
excited for that. Wade Barrett. Somebody somebody mentioned Wade Barrett.

(38:49):
I was like, I don't, I don't know if I
want to see that.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
M hmm, it's not going to.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
Be Wade Barrett.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
Uh so you can you can about that.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
David to come back.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Says it's gonna be I'm trying to think is it
Buchannan b b was a B Square? Who else is
a Johnson arrival from back in the day. It's just
be Randy Orton Carlito. He's the one who got him
stabbed in that nightclub back in two thousand and four
or whatever it was. I think it was it Sena

(39:28):
had like a legit injury and it's like, you know,
we'll say you got stabbed in the club like a
like a rapper, like a real rapper, you know from
the streets. Man, he could just have an injury. He
got stabbed, Yeah, Sentino, I don't I don't know. John
lauryn nightis about big Johnny people in the wet suit.

(39:50):
Uh yeah, that was tough, too real bad.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
But yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
That's crazy. That is crazy. John Stop just saying in
reality show John Stone, John take it back to Total Devens.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
Some random TNA guy.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
Get a man who's the guy who's in the Master Factory. Man,
I can't remember his name. Uh Man, Now, I'm I'm
gonna blank on this and I'm mad about it. So
is it Stephen Mason? Is this Steve Mason?

Speaker 2 (40:26):
I don't know, Mane.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
I know Stone call Steve Mason. No, man, I can't
remember at the top of my head, and that's gonna
bother me. Why I have to look him up now?

Speaker 2 (40:41):
No?

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Uh, Steve Macklin, Steve.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Macklin Jeremy Macklin's brother.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
Right, No, I mean brother from a different mother, because
this guy is why uh. And the joke not nearly
as funny. They had to look it up for like
two minutes before I got the name in there, but
we try. Speaking of TNA, that's where rich Holland had
his match where he got injured. That he's still recovering
from this injury, but unfortunately he has not been able

(41:10):
to work because of his injury. He's not been getting
paid and he's about to get released. Well, he has
been released because he spoke out about his how kind
of how crappy a situation was, and how he's been
hurt and he got hurt working on behalf of WWE
in TNA, and while they paid for a surgery, he

(41:31):
was not. I don't think he was getting paid while
he was out, and then they released him from this
contract when he needed the money. And this is also
after he took a fifty percent pay cut to stay
with WW on a one year deal, and it sounds
like he is in tough financial straits. I know there
was a go fundme setup form and stuff like that.
A lot of stuff's going on with this, and I'm

(41:51):
sure there's a lot of different comments and viewpoints about
this that. And the third bottom line is we've talked
about this before and Rich High is just one example
of the lack of protection that wrestlers have in the
industry when it comes to you work for a major, major,

(42:12):
major company in ww multi billion dollar publicly traded company
in WWE, but you're an independent contractor, despite you signing
a contract and you not being able to work anywhere else.
And because you're independent contractor, they don't have to give
you insurance and they don't have to give you a
four to one K and everything else that comes with
jobs in that of that ILK, right, And again that sucks.

(42:39):
You shouldn't have to hear about people like rich Hoyland,
who's still pretty much in the business. He's not like
he's old and long retired and collected last wrestling check
many many years ago. Just happening. And I know some
people are gonna be like, oh, he should save his
money How can he spilling all his money for one
to stay out his pocket. You don't know how much
what he what kind of situation he got going on.

(43:00):
He could be taking care of people and his family
and whatnot. They still don't excuse what has happened to
him and how there's just a lack of security post
career for the wrestlers. Where in other forms of us,
to say, I guess sports and entertainment they have it.

(43:21):
Actors have the Screen Actors Guild. Every football player in
the NFL is part of the NFLPA. For basketball as
a NBA PA, I think it's NBA PA. Of course,
you get the Baseball Players Association, Hockey Players Association. Those
are all unions with collective bargaining agreements and protections. They

(43:41):
get pensions, they get vested for one case, they get
the insurance. Now I know in the NFL they arguing
about how long they should pay for people's medical expenses
after they're retired and stuff like that. That's a topic, right,
But they get some coverage. What they get is still
miles better than with WW former WW you wrestlers get,
or any wrestlers. And I'm not sitting here saying that

(44:02):
the entire industry needs to do this, but I think
it should be the case in WW and possibly a
W two. I don't know if they can afford it,
like WW, I got no WW can, but it wouldn't
hurt to try. Wouldn't hurt to try. Man, And until then,
we're gonna hear more stories about this. It's gonna sound like, oh,

(44:26):
they made so much money, where did they go? People
be having expenses.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
They having families, many having families. Something so physical, like
they're traveling, you know, like their gear, like it's it costs.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
Money to look that good. They just work, go to
the gym to look that good. Brother, y'all go to
the gym all the time and nothing changes. You think
they just go to the gym. They pay for certain things.
They pay for them tans they got, they might fix
their teeth, they might get hair transplants.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
Came back with the ears.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
Oh man cop the bag and fixed his teeth. They
might get hair transplants. They might do you know, facial agent,
you know, augmentation botox. Botox ain't cheap. There's a lot
of people doing botox out there. You got normal Jimmy's
and Joe's out there. Off all kinds of people doing botox.
That's a common thing in our society pretty much. Uh,

(45:22):
same for like other plastic surgery you might want to get.
So that's all in the in the in the in
the vein of trying to keep up appearance until you
keep a job. That's part of keeping a job. You
can't let yourself go costs money that WW ain't paying.
So I just I just find that always interesting when

(45:42):
people do that when it comes to wrestlers or like
football players and like he made so much money basketball players.
He made seventy million dollars in his career. Yeah, he
only got thirty five of it. And then you know,
some of that went to the agent. Some of the
other stuff went to family because you know, they got bills,
somebody needed their car fixed, somebody needed they was behind
on rent. You know, somebody went away to college. You

(46:04):
want to help them out. Somebody needed this, somebody needed that,
Or you wanted to treat yourself. You want to go
on vacation, you want a car, you might want to
splurge a little bit.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
I feel like that's where the disconnect comes in because
there's a lot of people that don't recognize these guys
are just like they are, Like they live just like
they did. They have a house, they have a mortgage,
like they sounds terrifying, Yeah, terrifying, okay, but like more

(46:35):
like the everyday person than we think.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
Yeah, they're not that far away, as you see with
rich Holland unfortunately, not that far away from being just
like everybody else, struggling, worried about what they're gonna do
next month. So I don't know who y'all are, you know,
talking about these people like, oh man, what place do
y'all come from? Y'all got a bunch of money saved
up from y'all checks? I'd love to see that. How

(47:02):
much money y'all see?

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Pass judgment. That's what they do.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
And it's and especially because these people are making more
money than them, so it's like, oh, you can't have
possibly have any issues. You got all this money. Money
will solve it all. No, don't bro what you're talking about.
So again, hopefully everything works out for him. And again,
I don't know if it's going to change anytime soon,
but something, something's got to happen because I don't And

(47:30):
the way these people get treated, it's like take that
pay cut, there's no I've read something about how he
was negotiating his deal and he talked about like I
think Karen Crosse even said this in his interview. He
wanted to know, uh Le'll say in his in his interview,
one of the interviews he's done recently, and he talked
about how uh he they gave him a number ww

(47:51):
being gave him a number that they wanted to pay him,
and he wanted to know how they came up with
that number, Which is a remarkably fair question. This happens
in negotiations all the time. I've asked the same question,
or at least, yeah, I think I've asked the same
question in my negotiations back in the day. At least

(48:11):
at least they give you a pay range, you know,
on jobs and stuff like that, right, you know, you know,
kind of arrange to what you want to get. But
say if you're an NFL player and you're trying to
get fifteen million dollars guaranteed, but the team is only
offering twelve, and you're like, well, I'm worth fifteen because
you can show them things stats as to why you're
worth fifteen, and they'll probably counted with other stats that

(48:33):
show you, this is why you worth twelve. Also, we
can't afford fifteen because of XYZ. We have the salary cap.
We got X number of dollars invested over here, so
we can't do that over here. We love you for twelve,
but we were fifteen. Ooh, that's tough for us. But
at least the player could present something or the team
could present something to present their case and make their

(48:54):
cases to why it should be this based on the
market value and all this and that and wrestling in
WW what is that based off of? You're not gonna
go off of stats, feelings, just feeling and what you're
willing to spend on this person? Right, they cut this
man's salary in half. Why what made you come to

(49:16):
that decision? We just don't see any that much value
in you. Well, you booked me this way. You could
book me to win all the matches they not be
making all the money, but you told me to lose
every night, and now you want to cut my peg
from doing what you told me to do. So and

(49:38):
there's no again, no bargaining. Really, you take it or
leave it. And I don't blame carrying Cross for asking
what made you come up with this number, Show me
some metrics and compare, and I would love to compare
those metrics to what other people other people's metrics are,
like I don't have to make more of than Roman reigns,

(49:59):
but show me how my pay is commiserate to his
and based on what like merchandise sales? How do you
how do you quantify ticket sales? Or you just say
here you go, you deserve this and that's the.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Number of arms in the air when he says acknowledge
me right, But how.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
Do you count whether this person gets four hundred thousand
and this person gets three based on what exactly? So
you know at least jobs, So as I know, they
gave you do some type of market research and they
have a budget. Ww ain't worried about they budgets? So again,
what made you come to that decision? So again, this

(50:39):
won't be the last time we talk about stuff like
this because it's going to happen some more. It's going
to happen again. You're going to see it. So I
understand you can tell Russell save your money, but like damn,
that means they're not the way things are going. They're
not going to have any disposable income soon neither, So
good luck, keep the keep the fight going, I guess,
keep hope alive, I guess. But that is enough of

(51:02):
the current day nonsense. I feel like we've talked a
lot about current day nonsense.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
I thought that would be quick, but or an hour
almost an hour in it.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
Was not quick whatsoever. So let's finally yes, a lot
of nonsense, but let's finally get to our deep dives.
Survivor Series nineteen ninety one, Nick, are you ready?

Speaker 2 (51:22):
Let's do it.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
No intro, don't need one, damn it because it is
the Survivor series from nineteen ninety one.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
Time I thought I had, like a Survivor series drop,
but I don't think I do.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
I'll do it. Welcome to you, that Survivor series and
some jazz music in the background, because all they played
in the early nineties is just like the Sacks. They
just killing the Sacks in the early nineties on WWF shows.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
I have WrestleMania and it's time to rum ball. But
apparently I missed out on the Survivor series.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
And get up on that. I mean, who cares a
Survivor series At the end of the day, who cares.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
To be one of my favorite shows growing up.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
Well, that was a long time ago.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
On my VCR.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
That's true, we got those tapes back. That's dope. But
Survivor Series nineteenety one took place on November twenty seventh,
nineteen ninety one, Thanksgiving Eve. That next one time they
want Thanksgiving Eve.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
Yeah, it's Giving Night every year before this.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
Look at that first time ever Thanksgiving Eve. I don't
know why. It's like a fun day of the year.
It's like that day before Thanksgiving. Obviously, I know it's
the festivus is the airing of grievances. I'm not a
siin Field person, but I do think that's hilarious. And
apparently it's a huge bar night and in the country
because people go out drinking the night before, they hang
out their families. So yeah, Thanksgiving Eve. Nobody has to

(52:47):
work the next day and people just out carrying on.
So it's a fun night. But this show emanated from
the famous Joe Louis Arena in Detroit, Michigan. We've covered
a lot of venues during our deep dives, but this
may be the first one we've ever covered that is
named after a black person. Ain't too many of those
venues in the country, believe it or not. Shockingly, but

(53:11):
in this case, the venue is named after boxing legend
Joe Lewis, who was born in Alabama but called Detroit
home after he moved there since when he was twelve
years old. If you didn't know, if you're unaware, I'm
sure you've probably heard of Joe Louis Arena at some
point and wondered who's Joe Lewis unless you watched it
Coming to America and Nick, I don't know if you have,

(53:32):
but not yet, not yet. But there's there's some good. Uh,
there's a good Joe Louis joking there speculating about how
old he was when he lost to Rocky Marciano. Uh,
he's allegedly one hundred and twelve years old Rocky Marciano

(53:54):
according to one of the barbers in the barbershop scene,
he's leaves one hundred and twelve or something like that
years old. I don't think that's the truth, allegedly, but
he is basically one of the greatest athletes that's ever lived.
The Brown Bomber, as he was known, won the world

(54:15):
heavyweight title in nineteen thirty seven and held it for
twelve years. You thought Bruno had a long title reign,
and he ain't got nothing on Joe Lewis fighting people
for over a decade holding that title, okay, making him
a hero to a generation of black people in the process,

(54:36):
and one of the most recognizable athletes of all time.
And he didn't even lose the title. He didn't even
lose it. He retired because he had issues with the IRS.
Shout out to micro Tunda man who was on this show.
And I believe recovering from a recent health scare so,
but yes, Lewis. He also listed in the US Army.

(54:58):
He's a war veteran. He listed in the Army following
the attack on Pearl Harbor, and he was placed in
the Special Services Division, where he put on boxing demonstrations
for service members and also helped increase black enrollment in
the military. He died, unfortunately in nineteen eighty one at

(55:20):
the age of sixty six, but before he died, Detroit
named its brand news spanking arena after him in nineteen
seventy nine, Joe Lewis Arena and his name until it
was demolished in twenty seventeen. I believe if I'm reading
that correctly. I think I had that listed down yes,

(55:40):
twenty seventeen before it was demolished in twenty seventeen. His
name never left the building, so that's nice to see.
They didn't go like, you know, put a corporate sponsor
on it at some point, or like Joe Lewis Arena
presented by AT and T or something like that. You know,
it was always this Joe Louis Arena. So that was
pretty nice. Oh, it's amolaged in twenty nineteen. I apologize,

(56:03):
not twenty seventeen, but all of that information was according
to the to the Detroit Historical Society and the National
Museum of African American History and Culture. But Dough Fret,
there's still a monument for Joe Louis and Detroit. It
is that fist monument that you've probably seen whenever you

(56:23):
hear about Detroit, and they show some things based you know,
this based in Detroit, the fist monument, the statue in
downtown Detroit is among them. That's a Joe Lewis monument.
So there's still something not based on.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
The same fists as the SmackDown set.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
No different fist, different one, but maybe based off of
Joe Louis's fist, so it could be based off of that.
But the Joe as it was called, was the home
of the Detroit Red Wings from nineteen seventy nine to
twenty seventeen. In twenty seventeen, that's when Little Caesars Arena opened.

(57:00):
The new arena, the successor that got corporate sponsorships right away.
They was like, we're not repeating Joe Louis Arena, sorry,
Joe Little Caesars Arena, which is based I think the
owners of Little Caesars is based out of Detroit, so
and apparently he's like a nice person. Apparently, that's what
I've heard.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
I don't know about that fold Julius Caesar short maybe
Little Caesars.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
Maybe, but yes, Little Caesars is based in Detroit. That's
what the headquarters are. So there you go. But the
Red Wings, as you know Nick alluded to with his booh,
they've had a lot of success in that building, winning
four Stanley Cups, including one over the Flyers in nineteen
ninety seven where they spanked the Flyers in that ninety

(57:50):
seven Stanley Cup. I feel like we've talked about that
multiple times. They're not deep dives, somehow we've tied our
show to the ninety seven the Stanley Cup Final. I
don't know why. It's very random. It's a deep diving.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
Wrestling so kind of yeah. But I can tell you
what WWWWF and ECW were doing. Could not tell you
what the Flyers were doing. I mean I can, but
well I wasn't watching these games yet. Well it was
a hearing about them.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
Crap year for Phillies sports though. So Sixers went twenty
two and sixty. The Eagles I think went like seven
and nine. Maybe let me double check that, man, Actually
they had a tie I think in nineteen ninety seven. Uh, yeah,
they went six nine and one in nineteen ninety seven.

(58:41):
So let's see what the Phillies did in nineteen ninety seven.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
No, you don't want to see that.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
Oh I'm gonna do it. We're gonna do it. We're
gonna do it. Nineteen ninety seven Phillies, I know it's bad.
Did they have one hundred losses over? Under one hundred
losses for ninety seven.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
I'm gonna say oudr. I think it was probably nineties something.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
It was your correct, it was under sixty eight and
ninety four. Terry Francona was the manager of the team.
Uh so, Yeah, not a great year for Philly sports.
The one bright spot the Flyers got swept in the
Stanley Cup final. Maybe the Philadelphia Wings won the championship
the lacrosse team or something. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
I think their first year was ninety eight, so dangn
I might be wrong, but I don't think they were
in existence yet.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
We can look that up too, I guess.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
I don't know. For some reason, strikes me as the year,
but you sure, no, I'm not.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Let's see, let's see, hang on, hang on. They won
a league title in nineteen ninety eight, but they won
in ninety four, ninety five, and ninety eight in two thousand, Man,
they were dominant, bro.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
Maybe that's why we got to have a for one,
the logo was fire five for the Wings, the original
Wings logo five in the jerseys five but six titles
and all within like twelve years.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
Ooh, weren't talking about the Philadelphia Wing hundred percent? They
won for Philly too, three in like four years, three
and five years.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
People want to say Philly is not a championship town
for the Super Bowl.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
Hang up the six banners for the Wings.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Six banners for the indoor lacrosse team, not outdoor indoor
lacrosse team. But back to Detroit, the Wing, the Red Wings,
not the Wings the Red Ones. Uh. They did not
share the Joe Louis Arena with the Detroit Pistons. They
played in the Pontiac Silverdome in the nineteen eighties before
moving to the Palace of Auburn Hills and Auburn Hills, Michigan.

(01:00:41):
I think SummerSlam was there in nineteen ninety three. I
believe I remember us talking about that, but both teams
now they do play. And it was also Seeds Arena
that was.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Also the site of Lex Luger winning the wc W
title on August fourth, nineteen ninety seven.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
Damn, we're back in this year. Can't escape nineteen ninety
seven somehow, even though we're talking about a show from
nineteen ninety one. But last little tidbit about the Joe
Louis Arena. Do you know who else played in the
Joe Louis Arena?

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
The Michigan hockey team.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
No, No, they may have, but not the team I'm
alluding to. I'm alluding to the Detroit Drive of the
Arena Football League, Baby Drive the Drive, because you know
Michigan Detroit, they drive cars, they make them at least.
But the Drive won four ArenaBowl titles in five years
host They hosted the Arena Bowl three, four, five, and

(01:01:38):
seven all at Joe Louis Arena. Arenable five was actually
earlier this year nineteen ninety one at Joe Louis Arena
a match up between Detroit Drive and the Tampa Bay Storm.
The Storm one No. Forty eight to forty two. But
I got another question for you. Do you know who
started a quarterback for the Tampa Bay Storm?

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
Cooy deper close.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
It's a Gruden, Not John Gruden, but Jay Baby, former
coach of the Commanders. If you didn't know, Jay Gruden
is an arena football legend. One championship as a quarterback
and a coach. He was a beast. But in November
nineteen ninety one, there were seventeen thousand, five hundred people

(01:02:25):
in Joe Louis Arena, according to the Good Old Wikipedia.
Yes on the news. So where are we in nineteen
ninety one? In a WWF Well for starters, Hawk Hogan
is a champion, the forever champion, apparently.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
Uh has been champions since wrest seven, yes earlier that year.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
So it feels like forever though. But there's a new
monster in town. Well not really new, he's been around
for a while, but there's a new foe standing in
front of Hawk Hogan and his name is the Undertaker,
and the Hawk Hogan's got to go one on one
with him. As Survivor Series in nineteen ninety one, of course,
you undertake a debut I don't know, but they undertake

(01:03:08):
a debut at the nineteen ninety Survivor Series and has
not lost since. So can Hogan topple another giant or
will the Undertaker ascend to the top of the industry.
We'll see literally surrounding this match though on the card,
because this match the main the title match, I just say,
it's smack in the middle of the card.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Not the main event, but it's surrounded by traditional Survivor
Series matches, which we do not have any of on
the card this year so far for Survivor Series, and
we haven't had a traditional Survivor Series match at Survivor
Series tince twenty twenty one. What it doesn't make any sense,

(01:03:53):
but to me, it's like, either change the name or
do the match. If you have called the show Survivor Series,
do at least one Survivor Series match you could do.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
Like a Survivor Series match, like flip it year to year.
The men's get the War Games one year, the women's
have this Survivor Series match, and then just flip it
the next year.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
I agree with that. I agree with that. So you
don't have two War Games matches and didn't no Survivor
Series matches. It just doesn't make any sense. It's Survivor Series.
Do That's like having an Award rumble without having an
award rumble money in the bank. With no money in
the bank, It's like, come on, I understand, like people
clearly overlook this. They still gonna buy tickets to the

(01:04:35):
show to watch it, you know, on whatever app we
have to watch it on. But doesn't make sense.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
The interesting think about this is the next year we'll
dive into ninety two. At some point they didn't have
a traditional Survivor Series match, and nineteen.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
Ninety two, that's insane, bro.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
They had one technical Survivor Series match, but if you
were eliminated, there were two tag teams on each side,
So if you were eliminated, you and your partner were gone.
So it wasn't even a traditional Survivors series elimination match
in ninety two, so yeah, it was It was weird
that they did it that early in Survivrats series, like

(01:05:16):
the history of it. By ninety two they had no
traditional serbervatriies matches. They came back in ninety three, but
still this is the way they do it year to year.
You never know what you're gonna get.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
Then you had Deadly Games in ninety eight, so I
love that, but I did as know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
Just because of the title angle. But I was cool
with that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
But not cool with just no Survivor cities. But on
this night ninety one, we had multiple four on four matches.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
Let's go.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
But the final one is the first ever three on
three Survivor series. Wrinkle, Yeah, a little wrinkle there. We've
had five on five, four and four and even ten
on ten, which are some of the longest matches in history.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
I can't wait to dive into those.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
We want to be bored for forty five minutes watch
some of those early Survivor series ten on ten tag
Team Survivor series matches, which is just ten literally ten
people surrounding twenty people surrounding the ring. Can't even see
inside the ring because they're all around the ring. Look
looks like a lumberjack match. And I think you'd eliminate

(01:06:23):
both members of the team or was it just one
member of the team.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
I don't even remember. I didn't watch. I haven't watched
oh one of those.

Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
Yeah, I remember watching them for something else I was doing,
And man, was those matches boring. I hated those and
we will watch them again.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
I guess I've watched the I didn't watch the tag
team once, like I think I tried to at some point,
but yeah, at some point I stopped in the middle
of the match, so I haven't watched it all the
way through yet.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
Man, they're terrible, So yeah, we'll do it. You gotta
feel my pain. Though I've watched a couple of those.
Shith they are terrible.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
I do the eighty seven eighty eight. I don't know
about eighty nine, but I have eighty seven eighty eight
ninety on VHS. Maybe I'll have to. He knows out
obviously that the eighty seven eighty eight were from on
demand WW on demand ninety. I was the first se
reverceries I taped on my own, but I think I
eventually taped over it with a newer version. So yeah,

(01:07:23):
that'll be.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
Interesting maybe one day. But on this state. We've even
had five on three Survivor Serities matches before this too.
I forgot to mention that, but never three on three.
But we'll get to the show. And I must say
I love the old school Survivor Cities logoes. Just bring
back the old logos, bro, I hate to feel like
the old man. Like that's like, bring back the older

(01:07:45):
It was better back in the day. But it's like, Bro,
it was the arching letters, which like the bright yellow
and gold kind of and red backwards. Man, that's fire. Bro,
It's got so much pizzazz and personality.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
Yeah, it's got character to it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
Saying goes for like the old word Rumble logo, the
old Summer Slam logo, the old Wrestlemanian logo.

Speaker 2 (01:08:09):
Logos had, like the Wrestling Challenge logo, Prime Time Wrestling logo.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
It just had vibrancy and like it just felt like
it had it was alive, so to speak. It just
felt like I had personality, where the new Survivor series
logo is not only worse than the old school one,
it may be my least favorite pl logo from WW.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
It's it's boring, it's got no character.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
It's literally literally like white letters with Survivor series. The
only thing unique about it is that it's got these
two giant v's and Survivor for some reason, why right, why?
It doesn't look good. It looks bad and it doesn't
make any sense, Like it's like, oh, the v stick
out because of this. It's it's like, well, we need

(01:09:01):
to add some bizazz to this. So what do we got?
Make the bees big? I don't know. We got to
of those, make them huge. That's all I got is
make them big. So, in conclusion, Survivor series not only
does this show ney to go away, so does a
logo to never be seen again? Or if you're gonna

(01:09:23):
keep Survivor series around, bring back the old logo. Bring
it back.

Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
I would love like the old logos and just different
color schemes every year. I love, I love the old
color schemes. But in today's world, I don't think they're
gonna just use the old logo without some kind of current,
uh you know, modification to it. So just change the
colors up to bring back the logo just.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
Just be okay with that at least there's some bizzaz,
some character to it. It's just there's just nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
They look lighty. It was like a metallic to to them,
like a shiny chrome type field to these logos back then.
That I think that's part of the reason I loved
wrestling is just the way it looked. You know, It's
not the characters. It was just the look of everything
and how you know, the entrances weren't big and elaborate,

(01:10:13):
but that didn't matter to me. It was like just
how it was presented that I loved even as a kid,
and compared to today it's very plain, but it's still
like spoke to me as a five year old. So
you know, I just loved the aesthetic of wrestling in general,
and you know that that's part of the reason I've

(01:10:34):
loved wrestling as a kid.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
Yeah, I feel like we've gone too far into the
minimalist territory in some of these esthetics sometimes and gotten
away from the fun.

Speaker 2 (01:10:47):
Every show looks the same.

Speaker 1 (01:10:49):
Right, and just I think a lot of these things
happen in general, like with uniforms and sports you look
at some of the throwbacks and it's like, man, that
uniform looks so like just vibrant and fun, like the
Broncos orange Crush jerseys. I know they've had a lot
more success as far as like winning championships, super Bowls

(01:11:09):
and like the newer sets of uniforms, but those Orange
Crush are fire, bro, Like, you should never not wear those.
The Eagles, of course, the Kelly Green goes without saying.
They've had way more success in the Midnight Green, and
I personally do like the Midnight Green, and I think
they should keep the Midnight Green because of all the
success that they had, and it's I think it's a

(01:11:29):
timeless classic look, but the Kelly Green is fire bro.
It's like, what happened to the vibrancy we used to have?
We used to be a society.

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
Those Seahawks royal blue with the silver helmets look I
like their current ones, but they're a little too current, bro,
They're a little too of the time, and I think
they're good. But those old school ones look great. Okay,
they look incredible. So it's like, and it looked better
even now because of the Nike. The way that the
Nike jerseys fit and stuff like that. So it's just

(01:11:59):
it's just it was a show. Like, man, there's some
of these uniforms, like I'm watching I got a basketball
game up right now in the Calves jerseys, the white
jerseys they have playing doesn't even have like an outline
on the jersey. It's just Calves with the sea on
a leg, no frills. It's like, we gotta do better,
we gotta do better. Let's have some fun. You not
to do too much. Have some fun with it though.

(01:12:21):
But on the show, we start the show, I should say,
with footage of Jake Roberts making the Cobra bite, Randy
Savage and the arm. You can hear people screaming, but
it felt like they dubbed Miss Elizabeth screaming for some reason.
For sure, that was bizarre.

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
And everything was taped back then, like all the TV
was taped in advance, so this it probably aired that
way live. Yeah, I remember that pretty I don't want
to say vividly, but I definitely. It was one of
my first wrestling memories. That whole scenario.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
Yeah, it was kind of jarring for me. It was
kind of weird, but I get it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:05):
They're trying to like the way the way they opened
the show.

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
No, it was just a screaming the way they dubbed that.
Didn't love that. It's just weird.

Speaker 2 (01:13:14):
It's like we couldn't hear anybody else yelling or screaming,
but we heard her. Yeah, it was just a lot
of like chaos. But then you hear her come through
pretty clearly.

Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
Yeah, very clearly, very like, no, I'm Beyonce around her.
Definitely the sound proof booth clear type of audio that
they kind of piped in.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
Randy.

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
Everybody else like, ah, she's Randy, what's wrong?

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
No, snick bit his arm. I'm distraught. It doesn't work
like that. That's not how she sounded in reality. But
on the commentary, we got Roddy Piper, who was on
commentary for this, I should say, and of course he
was beside himself up about it all, and he's trying
to help Savage get out of the ropes and stuff

(01:14:03):
like that and get out of the ring. But Randy Savage,
I guess, is he's delirious from the supposedly devenimized snake.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
But well, apparently he wasn't devenomized.

Speaker 1 (01:14:13):
But he might have had venom and now it's supposedly
the venom is coursing through Randy's veins when we were
watching him slowly die.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
I guess, man's a lot of things, but he he
scared the crap out of me the way he described
this stuff. Man, he was like, I thought Randy was dying,
but before my very eyes, man, he said it. I
was like, no, I can't wait. Have I watched like what?

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
Of course, I mean as I you know, I've known
Jake Roberts. You know, I started watching in nineteen ninety
so Jake has always been a good guy, right, And
he turned it summer say ninety one, and every single
time I saw that snake, I was like worried I
would see it by someone, even when he was a
good guy. And when I finally saw it happen to
my guy, Randy Savage, man killed me.

Speaker 1 (01:15:07):
Killed me, killed you. It was tragic. It was I'm
sure four nineteen ninety one a heavy angle.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
I would surprised my mom let me watch. I mean,
maybe she didn't let me watch it. Maybe I saw
it like on the replay. Maybe I didn't see it live.
I remember talking about it with my neighbors because I
had like a kid about my age down the street,
and another one a little further down the street on
the opposite side. I lived at South Philly Row Home,
so we were we were all wrestling fans, and I

(01:15:37):
remember talking about it with them and we're just like,
oh my god, you see how that was crazy. And
before that, like we like Jake Roberts that glove he
was wearing. One of my friends was like, he's wearing
the Undertaker's glove, and we were like, we're going in
and we're watching, We're like, oh my god, like he's
wearing of the Undertaker. We thought it was the Undertaker's glove,
even though it clearly wasn't, but we, I guess convinced

(01:15:58):
ourselves that him an Undertaker, like he was wearing Undertaker's
glove for some reason, Like I don't know why I
remember that, but we were more focused on the glove
than the actual snake biting.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
Conspiracy theories, connecting dots.

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
Even though him and like Undertaker were already like in
coots by that point. So it was a bunch of
for five year olds, you know, that's what we were doing,
those six year olds that at this point, so.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
Six year olds creating conspiracy theories. It sounds dangerous, It
sounds very dangerous. But we got the snake biting Randy
Savage for real, not for play, but for real. I
can understand how that could be a heavy angle because

(01:16:43):
the snake really bought bit I should say, it really
bit Randy Savage, and it was like moving and like
really trying to gnaw into his skin.

Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
Yeah, but for some reason, I thought they censored it
on Survivors series, so I was surprised that they didn't.
But I think it was censored on TV if I'm
not mistaken. So I don't know if they actually show
that on the on Superstars, but maybe on pay per
view they showed the whole thing, but I remember seeing
it censored at some point, so maybe it was a

(01:17:11):
recap show or something.

Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
My favorite part is Roddy Piper trying to help Randy
Savage and he gets him on this stretcher and as
soon as he starts to push that stretcher, Randy Savage
immediately falls off.

Speaker 2 (01:17:21):
Of it, like how much you want to be? Like,
so Randy is just taking himself. I'm gonna I'm gonna
mess with him right now.

Speaker 1 (01:17:28):
He just rolled off this stretcher. He didn't fall off.
Randy definitely rolled off so he could take a bump.

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
Just try to make everybody's job that much harder by
much more chaotic.

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
He fell off right away. Also, Roddy Piper is like
he's shoving people out the way so he can be
the one.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
I don't understand that, Like why you're you're you're preventing
Randy from getting help.

Speaker 1 (01:17:55):
Like, right, you're not a professional, Roddy, You're just stronger
than everybody. Let the professionals handle this and get them
get him on the stretcher safely. So again, like strap
him down and stuff like that. You clearly didn't follow
the protocol, becaus soon as you pushed it, Brandy just
fell over. So clearly he didn't do this right. So

(01:18:17):
let the professionals handle this. You don't have you're a commentator,
you don't have to be a part of this sit
down man.

Speaker 2 (01:18:23):
And he just like it. And when Jake was waving
the snake back and forth, he I'm surprised the snake
didn't grab a hold of somebody somebody else at that point,
because they came pretty close. The snake came pretty close
to some of the other people. When Jake was like
just waving it around. I was like, that seems dangerous.
And the funny party that I was watching this part

(01:18:44):
of my dad and we saw after he got the
snake off of Randy's arm, the snake was like slithering
to the other side of the ring and uh, Jake
bouting up grabbing it before it was able to like
slide out of the ring. And I remember saying, like, dude,
if I was in the front row, I'd be freaking
all right.

Speaker 1 (01:19:02):
If that snake got out of the ring, the whole
arena would have scattered. You would have seen people falling
over chairs, been a path just clear. Yeah, it had
been a riot in the Arena's no way after it
bit Randy Savage. There's no way people are standing in
front of that snake. For you saw it gnawing into

(01:19:25):
that man's skin. You have no idea this snake is
actually the vendomized or not. You just see a cobra
into this man's skin and then it gets out. Oh
my god, it would have been bad. It'd have been
a tragedy.

Speaker 2 (01:19:38):
King Cobra is so much more menacing looking than Damien was. Like,
the cobra is scared the crap out of be more
than Damien would have like scares me to begin with.
But the cobra is just like on another level.

Speaker 1 (01:19:50):
It was not Damnien. The cobra and when they get
coiled and they got the like, I don't know what
you call I don't know the anatomy of a cobra,
but when it's got the to it, I guess I
don't know call it. I am not an animal person,
at least not in like a knowledgeable animal person. I
know what a cobra is, but don't get me started.

(01:20:11):
Get me the line about the anatomy of a snake.
But I can understand what you're getting at as far
as uh, the intimidations with.

Speaker 2 (01:20:18):
Jake Roberts been the anatomy of a snake.

Speaker 1 (01:20:22):
Something teach me something. I don't know, damn thing. It's
the one pieces.

Speaker 2 (01:20:28):
I always thought it was the ears, but I don't
think those ears.

Speaker 1 (01:20:32):
They look like ears, I can buy that. I don't
think they are. We will call them the ears for now,
even though we are very wrong. Don't take us at
our word.

Speaker 2 (01:20:43):
Experts. Snake Yeah, snake people for snake education. We are
not the people for.

Speaker 1 (01:20:47):
That, yeah, somebody correct, they call it a hood. Oh
that makes sense too. I'm with that. I don't know, uh,
but we get We didn't go to Jack on to
take who says that Savage is not cleared for a
Survivor series Uh, and that it was his fault that

(01:21:08):
there was a reptile at Ringside.

Speaker 2 (01:21:10):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:21:11):
And from then on he barred all cobra's and all
reptiles from Ringside. Why did it take this long Jack
Tunney to ban animals, specifically cobrasis been using it to
h you know, scare opponents even when he was a
good guy.

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
But I guess that was fine.

Speaker 1 (01:21:31):
Right, Well, he had to a python? Is Damien a python?
And then he went from a python to a more
dangerous snake, and you was like, all right, and then
it it bit somebody. Now you want to do something.

Speaker 2 (01:21:42):
Well, it was okay when he did it at Randy
and Liz's wedding, when he just scared him with the
snake a box at the wedding. But because that wasn't
you know, I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:21:50):
Not his jurisdiction. You know, he's not president of the wedding.
He's president of the World Wrestling Federation, you know, what
I'm saying not his jurisdiction, but when it's at the
ring at ringside, now, it's like, all right, I gotta
do something after it bites somebody, though you should have
did that beforehand. Are boxers allowed to take snakes and
reptiles and animals at ringside and just leave them there

(01:22:12):
in a sack and a burlap sack throughout the fight,
just sitting there. No, So, Jack Tunney, what was you doing?
Use a more of a reactive leader than a proactive leader.
It sounds like there it is, But yeah, what a
wild thing to have to do in wrestling. I banned

(01:22:33):
all these damn reptiles from ringside getting out of control.
And then he also I guess, I guess was Rick
Roberts is supposed to also be in the Survivor Series
match opposite of Savage. I guess they're both out because
they're going to face each other at Tuesday in Texas now.

Speaker 2 (01:22:51):
So, and that's why apparently Rady's okay to do a promo,
but he's not cleared for action.

Speaker 1 (01:22:57):
Not yet. Give him a couple more days, like literally
like less than.

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
Weeks, literally.

Speaker 1 (01:23:03):
From less than a week from now, he'll be all right.
But we then go to Gorilla Monson and Bobby Heenan,
who are on the call for the show, which you know,
they're always great. They have a good time. I got
some Gorilla mon student notes for later on because he
said some funny things about the Anatomy of Humans later on.

Speaker 2 (01:23:28):
Clips, so I was not able to get clips.

Speaker 1 (01:23:31):
But I just know he was talking about classicals and
stuff like that. He's so silly. But let's get into
our format for the show. We got the Match of
the night, worst match of the night, top non wrestling happening,
worst non wrestling happening, hitting Gym's best spot, worst spot,

(01:23:53):
my dog spot, and random thoughts. Uh, Nick, I.

Speaker 2 (01:24:01):
Go to you.

Speaker 1 (01:24:03):
Match of the night from Survivor Series ninety one.

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
This was actually a tough one. I don't think any
match is great, but I don't think any matches terrible.
I mean, like their their matches were better than others.
I actually didn't like this match until it got going,
uh maybe halfway through. I'm gonna go the first uh
Serravad series match four and four with Rit Flair, Ted DEBIASI,

(01:24:26):
Warlord and the Mount versus Roddy Piper, Brett Hart, Virgil
and the British Bulldog, mainly because I liked all the
storylines together floating around during this match, and a lot
of miss spots though, like a lot of confusion. But
then you look at the other matches and everybody's kind

(01:24:47):
of messed up.

Speaker 1 (01:24:48):
This was the best we got. I agree with you.
This is my match of the night as well.

Speaker 2 (01:24:52):
Yeah, yeah, I liked Brett Hart kind of being given
the spotlight. I like how during this RIVS series they
didn't always keep the tag teams together. That kind of
split him up a little bit. So like Brett Hart
and Jimmy Anvil night Heart were on different teams, I
believe in nineteen ninety. I don't think jim Nardheart was
on this show. Wasn't, No, he was not, So just

(01:25:13):
see him Brett like singles I enjoyed because as a kid,
I always liked the Heart Foundation. Obviously they were they
were baby faces when I started watching, But I always
gravitated towards Brett Heart a little more just because the
way he worked in the ring, Like he was quick,
some of the moves he did. I was like, man,
that guy like hurts people. Even though it was he
was not, he was just so he like didn't mess up,

(01:25:39):
you know, like, and I recognized at a young at
a young age, and maybe it was the pink and
black too. He stood out than other people. So I
was always like a Brett Hart guy. So seeing him
in there, Rick Flair's first big match in WWF, and
I didn't know who he was. I didn't know NWA
or WCW before WWF. So when Rick Flair saw about

(01:26:00):
the real World Champion and all that, I had no
idea what he was talking about. But I knew that
people hated him, so I hated him. You know, Roddy
Piper was a good guy. When I started watching, he
hated Rick Blair, so I hated Rick Blair. So it
was fun seeing a lot of the obviously Virgil big
Virgil guy, so him and tedd Biassi going at it
and everything. I was always a Virgil guy. British Bulldog

(01:26:20):
had just come back, so I think this is maybe
the first time I saw him really, you know, ninety one.
So yeah, a lot of fan favorites for me, I
guess early in my wrestling fandom in this match, and
obviously Rick Flair, I hated the Mountie. I hated Ted
Dibiassi the world word. I didn't really hate because he's
just like, never won against my god. You know, like

(01:26:44):
he beat the jobbers, but he didn't beat the important guys,
so I didn't never viewed him as a threat despite
how he looked. He was the more the most menacing
one in this match pretty much maybe against opposite the
British bulldog, but you know, he was the jacked one.

Speaker 1 (01:27:01):
He wasn't intimidated by the little prop he has to
stick with the w on it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:06):
I was not. So yeah, I just enjoyed the stories
throughout this match, even though it was clumsy having Rick
Flair win because he was the only guy not in
the ring. All the reference was like, ah, I'm just
gonna qualify anyone in the ring. Oh Rick Flair is
not in the ring, he's the winner. Then just it
was corny, but it works. It works for what they

(01:27:27):
were doing, so I enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:29):
I agree that finished was kind of crappy, but the
match itself was fun. Speaking of Rick Flair, we got
to mention that he is wearing a what was supposed
to be, oh god, the big gold belt.

Speaker 2 (01:27:43):
It's not.

Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
It's not.

Speaker 2 (01:27:45):
Though very easily you could see what it was.

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
It was blocked out on WWFTV by the WWF, obviously,
but it was clearly not a It was not a
ww title. It was clearly a w C ww F title.
As you can see the logo on the side of
the strap.

Speaker 2 (01:28:05):
They tag the tag team title.

Speaker 1 (01:28:07):
Is also at the tag titles and not the world title.

Speaker 2 (01:28:10):
Which is like, come at thing. Is everybody like pointing
at it in the ring? Be like, yeah, there it is, dude,
Like if they worried about if you're in the front row,
you clearly can tell what are you thinking right now?
Could he's doing that?

Speaker 1 (01:28:25):
Could they not give him the world title? Would they?
Were they worried about? Like confusion, I guess from fans,
but they'd be more confused. It's like he's a he's holding.

Speaker 2 (01:28:33):
The tag title.

Speaker 1 (01:28:34):
Okay, it's all confusing. But this is of course the
result of w CW sewing WWF for Rick Flair bringing
the actual Big Gold Belt on television, which was the
result of a dispute he had with Jim Hurd, And
he's like, well, you get I'm going I'm taking the
belt with me and I'm not giving it back. But that,
you know, calls some litigation and that force WWF to

(01:28:56):
try to keep up the gimmick by blurring the title out,
but they didn't do good enough job, unfortunately, because that
little w w F logo definitely snuck through.

Speaker 2 (01:29:05):
It in taped. You know, when they showed hal Coken,
it's the funeral Prowler with Undertaker, and Ric Flair had
the belt there and they distorted it like that's good,
but they can't. They couldn't do it live.

Speaker 1 (01:29:17):
And he's moving it around, and there's photos of Rick
holding up the tag typle if you look, go look
it up. There's photos of him from nineteen ninety one
holding up this tag team title belt like proudly, like yes,
I and the tag team Champions. He started that, not
Daniel Bryan and Kane it was. It was Ric Flair.

(01:29:39):
But the match itself, again was fun. Sherry is with
Ted Dibiassi, but she there's not supposed to be any
managers at ringside, but clearly she's there to take a
bump and she did when she gets pulled into the ring,
and I guess he didn't take a bump as much
as a piper, just kissed her without her permission. So
that's still bad. Too so, But how did the rough

(01:30:01):
miss her? She only was out there, She's the only
woman out there. How did you miss her? I did
like when British Bulldog Monkey flips Rick Flair and he
he takes the signature bump, but he walks into the
opponent's corner and then body Piper like cocks his fistbag like, oh,

(01:30:26):
he's walking over to me. Huh, and then Rick Flair
just falls down on his face. Oh okay, I was
about to punch him in the face.

Speaker 2 (01:30:35):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:30:35):
He Rick did like the the Flair bump like forty
times in this match. I felt like, uh, Piper at
one point he hit him like a thirty hit combo
like mank mink, mink, mink, mink right, and then Rick
Flair tumbles out of the ring at they get minked
up like thirty times and then takes a walk pretty
much around the entire ring and then the falls Piper

(01:31:03):
did him up though over and over again. At one
point Bulldog bench pressed the mounting, which was I thought
that was impressive. But yeah, it wasn't a whole lot
going on here. A lot of confusion at the end,
not a whole lot. There was a whole lot because
it was fun, but a lot of confusion at the end,
things broke down, and of course, like Nick said earlier,

(01:31:24):
Flair is somehow the soul survivor just because he was
the only person in the ring and everybody else is
fighting each other. So there we go. Uh, moving on,
what is the worst match of the night from the
nineteen ninety one Survivor Series.

Speaker 2 (01:31:38):
I'll go the next one. The next Survivor's Series match
started Slaughter Jim dug and Texas Tornado El Matador. Oh no,
it was Colonel Mustafa, the Berserker, Skinner and Hercules Because
who cares?

Speaker 1 (01:31:53):
Was it the Berserker?

Speaker 2 (01:31:54):
I thought?

Speaker 1 (01:31:54):
Is this Skinner and Berserker? Yes it's yes, yeah. Brian
Eisley Cover Your Ears goes about to poorly about its match,
not only his fault but the match. Yes, this match
was not good. It was boring and all the baby
Faces survived.

Speaker 2 (01:32:16):
There's no one like man. Texas Tornado was probably my
favorite in this match. What a difference in your banks? Man?
He was on the It was Intercontinental Champion with the
Ultimate Warrior and Legion at Doom in nineteen ninety in
a Survivorsteri's match and now he's here with Sergeant Slaughter
who just got his country back. I guess Jim Duggan

(01:32:38):
and El Mattador.

Speaker 1 (01:32:41):
Against Berserker and General adnon In Skinner who was disgusting
with the stuff leaking out of his mouth. But match
was boring, U slow, long, boring, not great. I had
an honorable mention here and is the main event not
really the main event, but the ww title match. We

(01:33:03):
can talk about it here because there's a lot to
talk about. When it comes to Undertaker and Hulk Hogan. Uh,
it wasn't really exciting, which for nineteen ninety one, Undertaker

(01:33:25):
style was that he was pretty much a zombie, right.
He just slowly plodded around the rings. Pain, he didn't sell,
He rarely left his feet. They when he went down
to a knee in this match, it was like, oh,
he went down there one knee. Hank Hogan is the
best and yeah, but it just didn't have it, just

(01:33:51):
didn't have it. Bro I just wasn't wasn't a fan
of the match. And then you get the ending with
Undertaker win. But after he supposedly hits Hogan with a
tombstone on top of a steel chair that Rick Flair
provided for him. But Hogan, of course is nowhere near
that chair, and you couldn't tell him that though. He

(01:34:13):
was like, hey, brother, you got me U to the Undertaker.

Speaker 2 (01:34:16):
But thinking about that the whole time I was watching that.

Speaker 1 (01:34:20):
Clearly it's the it's the it's the one takeaway from
this match outside of the Undertaker winning is all the
drama that pretty much followed in Hogan kind of lying
to the Undertaker, Yeah got me, brother, and he did not.
I just got the title from your ass, That's all
I did. Just now put me in a movie like

(01:34:46):
I'm trying to fight Shep Ramsey, baby, Come on. Maybe
it wasn't a movie already coming out around this point.
I think we talked about that now. Yeah, yeah, I
think we talked about that Commando Superurban Commando Deep Dive. Yeah,
it came out October ninety one, so the two stars
of Suburban Commando it explode.

Speaker 2 (01:35:09):
He got Chep Ramsey. He said, you're gonna make my voice. Here,
have a chair, Oh my god, I have a chair.

Speaker 1 (01:35:17):
Oh man, he is a riot. Let me tell you
what was Cogan was not Hulkogan? What was Undertaker's name?
They didn't have a movie. Yeah, he did they had it,
he had a name. I took those notes. I forgot though,
so let's see. Uh he was Hutch, It's Hutching Knuckles.
Come on, now, do.

Speaker 2 (01:35:38):
You keep your notes?

Speaker 1 (01:35:39):
You just I got I got rid of him.

Speaker 2 (01:35:41):
Yeah, yeah, the show, but.

Speaker 1 (01:35:46):
Hutch Hutch and Knuckles man. So we got a rematch
between those two at Survivor Cities ninety one and Hutch
one this time he is a champ. But that match
was kind of boring despite the the the excitement around it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:03):
They also had like confusion. I felt like they did
two spots in a row the same spot. Maybe Rick
Flair was late for his cue or something, because they
did the same thing with Hogan going off the ropes
and Paul Bear like grabbing home. But then Rick wasn't
there the first time, so they had to do the
whole thing over again the second time. You know it worked, Hogan, Well,

(01:36:28):
why does Hogan care about Ric Flair coming out the
mess with his belt like he's hault Cogan right, focus
on the undertaker man, and that's what happens, and you
can't let that happen when he got Ric Flair an
undertaker man. But I thought, always thought the tombstone to
the chair was a great spot, and I thought Hogan's like,

(01:36:51):
I honestly thought he was selling uh to make the
Undertaker look good. But I you know, I still feel
like him doing that just made the Undertaker look cooler.
So I don't know, if you know, it came across
to me what he was trying to convey, like like
just laying there the whole time. But that was actually

(01:37:13):
by one of my worst non wrestling happenings.

Speaker 1 (01:37:16):
When Hogan was laying in the ring, he was just just.

Speaker 2 (01:37:19):
Taking his time to get off.

Speaker 1 (01:37:22):
Well that's fair, I can I can buy that. I
would say, though my top not Wrestling avenue, I have
a few of those too. But for me and I
guess we can get into it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:34):
Did I say top I meant worse wrestling.

Speaker 1 (01:37:36):
Oh, we have a few of those. Okay, I have
a few top no wrestling happenings. Let's just transition to
that right now, since we're talking about Hogan an Undertaker,
Gorilla Monsoon speculating on the potential injuries that Colgan could
have cracked me up.

Speaker 2 (01:37:53):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (01:37:55):
So, Hogan is writhing in pain after taking a tombstone
on top of a chair, which in theory should mess
your head and neck up. That's the whole point of it.

Speaker 2 (01:38:04):
Was right, it was cool visual As a six year old,
I was like like, I like token, But at the
same time, it's like, damn, he got killed.

Speaker 1 (01:38:12):
You know, who knows what happened? Right, who knows what
kind of injuries? And here comes Grilla Monsoon, the expert
on anatomy. He could just see an injury from a
mile away, and he's like, man, he could have a
broken neck, he could have a fractured claviical it's very specific,
not a broken claval fractured claviical. And then Heenan is like, man,

(01:38:36):
he could be like that Lions player who got injured
on the field recently, and it's like whoa, whoa, whoa,
because that was a very real thing and that was
that player was named Mike Utley, no relation to Chase
as far as I know, but he suffered a spinal
cord injury during a game on November seventeenth, just ten
days before this event, and he has since. Utley has

(01:38:59):
regained the use of his shoulders, arms and hands, and
as partial movements in his legs. According to the National
Football Foundation's website, which Utly is a member of its
Hall of Fame. But wrestling related though Hogan Haw Hogan
apparently visited Utley in the hospital before this event, at
least that's according to The Baltimore Sun in December of

(01:39:22):
nineteen ninety one Detroit for Survivor series. No, the Baltimore Son,
Oh well, they just this is a story after this,
so they weren't in Detroit. I guess they talked to
Hawk Cogan and maybe he said it. They confirmed it.
It's in this story. I don't know. You know, sometimes
HAULK Coogan will tell some tall tales. He was known

(01:39:43):
to do that from time to time. So I also
thought that Piper's promo after Hogan's loss was wild because
he related the Undertaker becoming champion to David Duke becoming president,
which is like whoa, Wow, whoa because if you don't

(01:40:05):
know who David Duke is, he wasn't that. It kind
of didn't get into politics, which is not surprising in
our country. But David Duke is a former Louisiana State rep.
Which that is true, but he is also a former
Grand Wizard in the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan,
better known as the KKK, which is labeled a hate

(01:40:29):
group by the Southern Law Poverty Center so and which
as their ties have been severed between it's and the FBI,
which is like, yikes, but that's a different discussion for
a different day. But yeah, I don't think it's quite
that extreme. Rodney Piper, that's a lot, buddy. I know
this is sensationalism and wrestling, but who wow, I didn't

(01:40:52):
know it was that deep. It's just a guy that's crazy.
So yeah, that was a lot. Mean Jean also being
pigged that the decision was final on that match. Hilarious.
It's good, lord, Jack, We've have I talk with you.
What is wrong with you? How can that be final? God?

(01:41:14):
Damn it that he was so mad about that he
wanted that decision.

Speaker 2 (01:41:19):
Dude, Jack, tell him to relax.

Speaker 1 (01:41:22):
We need not we need Gene Oakland not covering the
president of the w WF. I want him covering the
president of the United States of America. You're gonna ask
the questions like this, Pristar President, how could you raise
those taxes like that? What is wrong with you right
now is.

Speaker 2 (01:41:38):
History, It's over.

Speaker 1 (01:41:39):
It's toast for this young lady. How dare you raise
those taxes like that? What is wrong with you? No matter,
I have a talk with you out in the Rose
Garden here.

Speaker 2 (01:41:49):
He said, Jack, you are a bona fide loser.

Speaker 1 (01:41:52):
Man. That came through really loud, but bona fide lose.
Let's go have a chat about it after the show.

Speaker 2 (01:42:00):
Santana just lost the Tana title. Oh Franky Kazarian Wait.

Speaker 1 (01:42:06):
He just he just was Yeah, this is his first
title defense.

Speaker 2 (01:42:11):
Yeah he I guess cashed it in their money in
the bank equivalent or something.

Speaker 1 (01:42:14):
Hey, yo, man, that's his flush deck good, feel good
moment down the toilet already.

Speaker 2 (01:42:21):
That is crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:42:22):
That's insane.

Speaker 2 (01:42:23):
Well, okay, they got to have him and chase it again.
No one's gonna care this time.

Speaker 1 (01:42:31):
I guess we'll see. Last thing I had. I had
a couple more Top nine wrestling happenings, one being that
I love. I thought it was hilarious when Uh the
World Wars doing a promo and Sean Mooney interrupts Hawk
as he's saying what a rush?

Speaker 2 (01:42:51):
Well for what though? Like, why is he? Why is
he doing that?

Speaker 1 (01:42:54):
I've never seen anyone be that brave before. I've never
seen that. I was like, see anyone be brave enough
to do that to Hawk, he's from when he always
starts off, well, he starts off on ten, Bro, you're
gonna cut him off when he's saying, oh, what a rush,

(01:43:17):
Oh this water rush, not oh what a rush? What
a rush? But I was like, what he spoke, why
he's talking about it? And Hawk was like, Sean, don't
you ever do that again. I don't know if he
was shooting or working.

Speaker 2 (01:43:34):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (01:43:34):
I believed it like, you better not open your mouth
again while I'm saying what a rush?

Speaker 2 (01:43:39):
Like my first thought was, Okay, that's gotta be like
an inside joke or something, because Sew Mooney was not
wanting to do bring attention to himself, right like Dorian
stuff like that. So yeah, it kind of caught me
off guard for sure, too.

Speaker 1 (01:43:53):
I didn't even know what Sean Mooney was about to say.
I was so taken him back by the fact that
he's spoke in that moment. It's like you are surrounded
by the road warriors, so you better keep your mouth
shut and speak when spoken to. Did you hear how
I amped up? Animal? Was you scream at the top
of his lungs? And you know, Hawk is already with it.

Speaker 2 (01:44:12):
He whit?

Speaker 1 (01:44:13):
Do you know what? I won't say it. I won't
say we got a family oriented program, but you know
he with it. And you got the audacity to say
something right now? You will you lucky big boss man
and hit you with the night stick or something. But uh,
I think one more thing. I think I had another thing. Oh,

(01:44:34):
Jake Roberts's sweater, nice man. That could be a random
note actually, but.

Speaker 2 (01:44:42):
His sweater and mister perfect southfit.

Speaker 1 (01:44:44):
Oh why can I forget about mister perfect jumpsuit? The
track suit.

Speaker 2 (01:44:51):
Like redyonnies to a tea man. I was wearing similar
crap as a first.

Speaker 1 (01:45:02):
It was like, so nineties is almost like a Halloween costume.
That's like, if you put that on today, people are like,
you're a nineties bomb, aren't you? Look at you? So
nineties with the blue turtleneck and a yellow sheet shirt
underneath that.

Speaker 2 (01:45:19):
He was wilding bron So, I said, wrestling, But you
will remember me.

Speaker 1 (01:45:26):
You will remember this fit. I'm putting on my best tracksuit, bro.
And he just got this.

Speaker 2 (01:45:30):
And he made it on the podcast. Bro.

Speaker 1 (01:45:33):
Shout out to mister perfect with the very nineties tracksuit.
A legendary look, he was about to go straight to
Nickelodeon after that, and then Jake robbers like he was
about to go to a fancy dinner in the nineties. Well,
you could wear that sweater to a fancy dinner in
the nineties. It looked hella itchy though, and the whole
fit honestly was crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:45:53):
Wasn't he like himself a little bit throw that promo
because that.

Speaker 1 (01:45:57):
Damn sweater one hundred percent wool, probably the it chiese
the sweater is. The whole fit was wild though. He
had the nineties sweater with the leather pants and loose
leather pants, not even tight ones, loose leather pants, which
I don't know if that looks better or worse, and
then cowboy boots snake skin boots, and it's like, where

(01:46:20):
are we going with this outfit? Are you going to
the bar, You're going to dinner, You're going to the club,
You're going to the to the to the honky tonk?
Where are you going? You're going to Club fifty four?
Like I don't you going to the family function? I
didn't get it. I didn't get it, but but yes,
those are my top nine wrestling happenings. I had quite

(01:46:42):
a few. What were yours, sir?

Speaker 2 (01:46:45):
I got the Piper promo I Love Savage and Roberts
promos Brandy Savage. I don't know if that was exactly
a new look for him, but it was the first
because I don't know, like what he wore when he
was commentating after Wrestling seven, when he lost that career
ending match to the Ultimate Warrior. He had been on
commentary since obviously he had the wedding with Liz and

(01:47:08):
started wearing the cowboy hat and all that, So it
was like a different look, and it was the first
time it was like the macho man. I've been so
used to the macho king. So I was like, what
is this macho man? Why are they calling him macho man? Like,
why isn't it macho king. I can never understand why
he wasn't macho man.

Speaker 1 (01:47:27):
He was already a macho king. Why would he go
back to being a man, a mere man.

Speaker 2 (01:47:31):
At this point, I had to, you know, train myself, Okay,
macho man, they're calling him matro man. What what happened
to macho king? Why isn't he a king anymore? You know?
I was like almost like upset about it. Because I
had like the action figure of the Macho King Action
Figure two, and I'm like, like the Wacho King. That's
all I've ever known, you know, I.

Speaker 1 (01:47:52):
Heard the song Macho Man is like why this song
is confusing?

Speaker 2 (01:47:56):
Serious? So him coming out and him just being like,
you know, snake didn't hurt as much as hearing Liz
cry or something like that, you know, like this maybe laugh.

Speaker 1 (01:48:07):
I couldn't tell, Oh, Randy, you were stumbling all around
Dann Marie, falling off of stretches.

Speaker 2 (01:48:12):
So it was good to see him okay after getting
met by a snake, right, So I was like, oh,
Randy's okay. So, and I don't remember if we ordered
Tuesday in Texas the next week. I don't remember watching
it live. We might have, like I don't, I don't,
I don't know. I definitely didn't tape it, but if

(01:48:33):
I did, you know, see it. But I remember wanting
to see him beat up Jake so bad. After that,
I was like, at least he's okay, and you had
Liz come out. I was like, hey, Layer's LEAs and
everything's okay. Everything's gonna be okay. And then the Undertaker
beats Hall Cooked. Later the night, so I kind of
killed my kill my enjoyment of the evening, But yeah,

(01:48:54):
that was one of my top namersaing outings as well.
Did the Piper promo, and I think Rick Clair It's
the purpose promo after o Get Lost was kind of funny.
Rick Flair's little babies out there, tears in their eyes,
the mother's looking at the fathers wondering what's next. You know,
I was just laughing. I was like, oh my god,
what did jerk? And this was obviously they had a

(01:49:16):
lot they had like intermissions back then during the shows,
so there was like promo after promo after promo after promo,
and I liked that. Like I liked the way those
shows were formatted.

Speaker 1 (01:49:28):
I don't much.

Speaker 2 (01:49:30):
I liked it. I liked the main event in the middle,
like the world title match in the middle of the show,
Like I'm just the fact the reaction to it right after,
you know, we talked about Gene Oakland and going nuts.

Speaker 1 (01:49:41):
It makes everything else seem a little less significant after that.

Speaker 2 (01:49:43):
Right now, you're right at the end of that show.

Speaker 1 (01:49:46):
Was not the main event of the show, was just
like match.

Speaker 2 (01:49:50):
But that's why, Like as a kid, I liked it
because I can look forward to the show ending on
a high note, because usually that's what would happen. If
something bad to a babyface in the middle of the show,
usually it would end up, you know, before it goes
off the air. Hey, like, at least I have this,
you know, like one of those types of things like

(01:50:17):
I love the Rappers back then, and so seeing like
Sean mad at Barty kind of hurt me too, a
little bit, not as bad as Hogan losing, but I
remember like, no, Sean, no, what are you doing. He
didn't do it on purpose. He didn't do it on purpose.

Speaker 1 (01:50:30):
Man, I really need the Road Wars and Big boss
Man to come through the night he did. I need
something positive didn't and and the other homies that wasn't
in a verb who was on that team. I couldn't
listen having cress laughter that wasn't doing it.

Speaker 2 (01:50:50):
And having earthquake bad at I R s also give
me a little hope for Oh yeah, I was like,
that's right, that's from Cracks, Little ivn R sister.

Speaker 1 (01:51:02):
So cracks in the foundation of the bad guys. Yeah so,
And it's praying on the downfall.

Speaker 2 (01:51:07):
Although it's funny because the natural disasters didn't turn baby
face like right after that, Like there was still what
a few months as heels they face LEAs are doing
at the Royal Rumbles, so they weren't exactly babyfaces yet.
But seeing earthquake mad at I r s made me
feel better because I was like, I'm afraid of earthquake,
you know, like he's a big, mean man, like I

(01:51:30):
don't want I want him on my side, you know,
like see how.

Speaker 1 (01:51:33):
Much he's rocking back and forth. He's ready to just
destroy somebody. I can't even stand still. You want to
hurt somebody so bad. Uh that was good though, good times,
good times. I didn't have. I had a worse non
wrestling happening. It was the natural disasters leaving the main
event just killed it. They didn't care anymore after that.

Speaker 2 (01:51:54):
Uh well, so Typhoon got pinned, right, and then the
other earthquake was just like see you, I don't care.

Speaker 1 (01:51:59):
Yeah, and Eerinard schist At defend for himself.

Speaker 2 (01:52:04):
So that was that, whatever little lame.

Speaker 1 (01:52:08):
I didn't have really a hitting gym. It's only a
couple of Maxes on the show, so none of them
were something that I would be like, you gotta watch
this if you missed it.

Speaker 2 (01:52:16):
So my hand and jam was mister perfect fit.

Speaker 1 (01:52:19):
Oh man, there was nothing hidden about that, bro. I mean,
I guess if you haven't seen it in thirty years.

Speaker 2 (01:52:25):
You know you talk about the Robbertson's you want It's undertaker,
so you.

Speaker 1 (01:52:29):
Know, talk about mister perfect spit.

Speaker 2 (01:52:33):
If there's any reason you got, you gotta watch it.

Speaker 1 (01:52:35):
It shouldn't be hidden. Bro, you're gonna go back and
watch this show for one thing. You gotta see mister
perfect track jumpsuit whatever you wanna call it, from nineteen
ninety one.

Speaker 2 (01:52:44):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (01:52:45):
It was peak nineteen ninety one, peak early nineties. Boy,
I was almost jealous, Like yo, I kind of wanted
that back in the early nineties, but that looked fly
for the nineties. The turtleneck underneath is killing me though.
What Oh my god, sweatshirt or something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:53:05):
How coal wasn't in Detroit?

Speaker 1 (01:53:07):
Couldn't have been. I mean, I guess it could have been.
It was November, but man, he was it was. It
was so much happening. Uh. Did you have a best spot?

Speaker 2 (01:53:18):
I did not, but I have a worse spot for sure.
The night I actually did like the tomb stuff on
the chair Man. Even though Hogan clearly didn't hit it,
I thought the way people reacted to it kind of
made it. So I just remember feeling like dismayed at that.
I was like, no, like whole cooking loss. That was

(01:53:40):
the first time I saw him lose. So yeah, I'm
obviously not to the ultimate Warrior of previous year, but
I get okay. It was the second time I saw
him lose, but the first time I saw him lose
to a bad guy, so kind of like, you know,
Bobby Heat and saying Hawk Maedi is dead and just
that whole thing surrounding that I liked. Although he just

(01:54:04):
took way too long getting up, so all right, come on,
let's go worst spot. Let's say big boss Man. When
he tried climbing up on the ropes to hit I
r S and he slipped and fell, he I r
S kind of went to the other side of the ring,
and I guess boss like a lot of sloppiness. I

(01:54:24):
guess people weren't. They were already in Thanksgiving mode at
this point. Maybe moving moving it to Thanksgiving Eve wasn't
exactly the smartest idea that maybe they were. Maybe they
were early nineties I'm sure they.

Speaker 1 (01:54:38):
Know Thanksgiving e big day.

Speaker 2 (01:54:43):
Then I have a couple of random thoughts. I think.

Speaker 1 (01:54:46):
You have worst spot. I would go did the tombstone
on the chair only because Hogan complained about it.

Speaker 2 (01:54:54):
After uh trying to rob an undertaker's career.

Speaker 1 (01:54:57):
Yeah, and then walked out under his own power on television.
So yeah, random thoughts. I got a couple of random thoughts.

Speaker 2 (01:55:06):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:55:07):
I did find it odd that Colonel Lustaffah was in
general at now only hitting like the the Bushwhackers walked
down to the ring during their entrance.

Speaker 2 (01:55:16):
It was kind of strange. He is so weird because
he did that. Colonel Mustafa did.

Speaker 1 (01:55:21):
That, but then the Bushwhackers did it.

Speaker 2 (01:55:23):
I know, but their arms are you know, angle differently though.
Come on, Colonel Mustafa's arms are straight ahead bushwackers are
they their elbows?

Speaker 1 (01:55:35):
So that's that sounds like when Bruce Pritchett says the
the tombs the Undertakers like, uh, crucifixion angle. It wasn't
a crucifix, it was a symbol. It was a symbol.
I was like, okay, we know what you're trying to
depict here. He just did it on the U didn't
take his logo instead of a cross, but all right,

(01:55:55):
I said symbol. Okay, all right, now you think I'm stupid.
Another random note is that I didn't know that Flair
used Hogan's catchphrase during the funeral parlor segment and Hogan
getting pissed about it, at least in character. They might
have been pissed in real life too far as I know, But.

Speaker 2 (01:56:17):
I love that segment by the way, like watch it
get back. This Undertaker coming out, so you know, scaringly
to me. I was like, oh my god, he scared
the crap out of me.

Speaker 1 (01:56:29):
And then he shrugged, shrugged off those chair shots savage
like it was nothing, and then snatched Hogan's chain in
front of them like a gez like I'm standing over
his body. I'm you're gonna watch me snatch his chain? Bro,
What you're gonna do about it? Cause nothing? I got
the juice, Now, that was it, Nigga standing there like, okay,

(01:56:51):
I ain't like that chain anyway, I'd nothing to do
with that. Another random note is that I loved Bobby
de Brain seeing Bobby de Brain heen and saying the
Undertaker has no eyeballs. He's got no eyeballs. It's hilarious. Also,
Gorilla said that the Undertaker, he's never seen him perspire.

(01:57:12):
He's just never sweated ever.

Speaker 2 (01:57:14):
It's like, okay, dude, Like I learned so many words
from wrestling and like people on commentary and perspire, I
would have not no one was about sweating, but I
did because Gorilla mon Soon said it. I didn't know
what a claviical was, but it was like the collar bone.
So when we've learned about it, like you know in school,

(01:57:35):
would be like this is called your classical in like
fifth grade, I like I do that.

Speaker 1 (01:57:39):
Gorilla taught me that. Who taught you that? A person
by the name of Gorilla Monsoon he made that up.

Speaker 2 (01:57:46):
No, I didn't know this is guy.

Speaker 1 (01:57:50):
His name is Gorilla Monsoon. He's named after Gorilla. And
then natural disaster he taught me up out the the oculus.
It was great, and then was it was it parstupital
perturberance something.

Speaker 2 (01:58:08):
Like that, something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:58:13):
Others but I can't even say it bro perturberance something like.
I learned that, right, I learned that from Gorilla Monsoon.
That's who I learned that from. I also had you
know you mentioned this earlier. Those cracks in the foundation
showing for the Rockers eventually fully break down into a

(01:58:38):
full breakup at the barbershop. I think in early ninety two,
right yeah, right before there you go, because I mean
we were late ninety one now, so it's going to
happen probably by this point, but early ninety two.

Speaker 2 (01:58:49):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:58:49):
And then my last note, we got a promo at
the end of the show. I'm assuming this is a
home video exclusive of Paul Bear Indiana Taker talking about
I Guess what They're gonna do a Tuesday and Texas.
I thought that was interesting, but that's all I've got
from series ninety one.

Speaker 2 (01:59:07):
Did think it was funny before I r S and
the Natural Disasters were interviewed backstage before the match, and
IRS called Jack Tunny Paul Tunny. Okay, some real like
why why is he calling him Paul Tunny? Like I
don't understand that.

Speaker 1 (01:59:26):
Jack Tunny's real name.

Speaker 2 (01:59:27):
I don't know, I have no idea, But he said
Paul Tunny and maybe I rewound it like three times,
like he's definitely talking about Jack Tunny here and he
calls him Paul.

Speaker 1 (01:59:36):
So no, his name was John, actually John Jack Tunney.

Speaker 2 (01:59:40):
Here it is I know a lot of John Jack's,
Like there's a John Jack or Jack John.

Speaker 1 (01:59:47):
Well Jack was like a nickname.

Speaker 2 (01:59:49):
I guess, yeah, like a lot like first and middle
names as well.

Speaker 1 (01:59:54):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (01:59:55):
So John still alive in twenty twenty five. But yeah,
I think we hit on everything that I had.

Speaker 1 (02:00:07):
All Right, look at that Survivor series nineteen ninety one.
It happened. That's pretty much what I got to say
about it. It was. It was a show that happened,
but nothing I mean, I guess there was a title change,
so I can't say nothing consequential happened. It was the
first it was a short title reign.

Speaker 2 (02:00:25):
Yeah, it was a very weak old like the title
was vacated after their patch of Tuesday in Texas and
then that's when Rick Flair wins the Rumble. So but yeah,
this was the first event I watched at my new
house in New Jersey when we moved from South Philly
to New Jersey and October nineteen ninety one, So it

(02:00:46):
was the first pay per view I watched in my
New Jersey home. I remember I went. I don't remember
how long I waited to go to school there, if
I waited like a couple days or just the rest
of the week and then started on Monday. But by
I remember being in gym talking about Survivor series because

(02:01:07):
the friends I had in Philly, I was trying to
make new friends, trying to tell people about wrestling. No
one knew what I was talking about. Really, so no
one really watched it. So maybe the teacher did. I
don't know, let's helping.

Speaker 1 (02:01:21):
Them Jersey kids, man watch wrestling. I don't know, man,
I had tell me about this.

Speaker 2 (02:01:27):
I had magazine, WWF magazine I brought in and I
showed them, like the the ad for the you know,
Survivor series or whatever. I was like, that's tonight. That's
because I believe we had school on a Wednesday. It
was like a half day. But I remember being like
super hyped for it because I didn't know the difference

(02:01:48):
between like Thanksgiving Eve and Thanksgiving Night that early in
my life. Like I didn't realize. I thought it was
like Thanksgiving Eve every year, but apparently it was Thanksgiving
Night the year before, and like I didn't know the difference, honestly.
So I remember like being in school. I was the
first grade, and I'm like, I like, yeah, like wrestling

(02:02:08):
tonight so cool, Like you should watch it if you
have pay per view, order it. Like I'm tell I'm
trying to sell people in the survivisories the first grade.

Speaker 1 (02:02:19):
WWF appreciates your contribution.

Speaker 2 (02:02:21):
After their business, they do that if they ordered it.
They saw Hulk cook and lose and break his neck
and like, oh man break his.

Speaker 1 (02:02:28):
Neck and then walked out of the arena like and
wrestled a week later.

Speaker 2 (02:02:32):
He was good, right right, Yeah, well that was funny.
Did we get an update on Hogan like hisself, like
Jack Tony Jack Tunny say like, yeah, Hook, it'll be
ready in six days, Like.

Speaker 1 (02:02:43):
I know, he's just like it's gonna happen in six days.
And whether he has a broken neck or not, is.

Speaker 2 (02:02:48):
He gonna come out like a back breeze like you.

Speaker 1 (02:02:50):
Might have a fractured classical like Guarrilla diagnosed earlier. So
I don't know, but he gonna be there, damn it,
because we got to solve this. We can't have this.
David Duke's at the title according to Roddy Piper. But
all right, let's wrap it up for our deep dive
of episode or If Survivor says nineteen eighty one on

(02:03:12):
episode four forty six, Nick, take us out with some
plugs please.

Speaker 2 (02:03:15):
You can follow me on Twitter at Underscore pecone and
on TikTok at Underscore pecone one. Also on Blue Sky,
Appicone and on threads a picone Nick For all my
Philly sports and wrestling content. You can follow us at
shooters Radio on Twitter, Blue Sky, Instagram, Threads, Facebook, Patreon,

(02:03:38):
and at shooterspod dot com. You can check out shooterspot
dot com for all the platforms were available on and that,
which include Apple, Spotify, Iheartsprinker Odyssey, tune In, Amazon, and Pandora.

Speaker 1 (02:03:52):
Man got them all off there real quick.

Speaker 2 (02:03:54):
That sounded like one of those end of medicine ad
reads or something. All the radio and they're going through
like the terms and additions.

Speaker 1 (02:04:04):
Very quickly, so you can't hear them that well. But
you can find us on Patreon, Patreon, dot com slash
shooters Radio where you can request a future deep dive
just like this one. It does not have to be
a wrestling pay per view. It can be a wrestling
related piece of content, like a movie like we did recently,
like They Live. If you like horror movies, you like
movies in general, go check out our deep dive on

(02:04:25):
They Live a Lot of Fun with John Tanton talking
about all the many different themes and fun things in
that movie and not so fun things in that movie.
But again, you can request a deep dive just like
that one Patreon dot com slash Shooters Radio. We are
going to get into more films and stuff like that
in the future, so stay tuned for that. Real graps

(02:04:48):
will return and if you have a request again one
more time Patreon dot com slash Shooters Radio. I'm all
all the social platforms X Blue Sky, Instagram. Go check
me out on all those platforms, and go check out
the Philadelphia Inquired social platforms as well. But until next time.
For Nick Percone, I am Vaughan Johnson. Thanks for listening

(02:05:10):
to episode four to forty six of The Straight Shooters
and we'll catch you all again next week. Hey cravage,
wake up this show on Oh yeah, Jacky

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