October 6, 2023 • 50 mins
Hello listeners and welcome back to the Strength in Recovery podcast! Today we're talking with RCA alumnus Katie Hall. Katie walks us through her passion for service, the impact her mother's addiction had on her own, and how RCA played a major role in her finding her path to recovery. It's an episode you don't want to miss! Tune in now to listen to everyone's favorite host, Jaye, talking with Katie about her recovery story. *The views and opinions expressed by the guests of this podcast are their own and not necessarily those of RCA. These interviews are personal testimonials of recovery and should not be considered medical or treatment advice. Need treatment? Call 1-833-RCAALUM today. Looking for support? Visit www.rcaalumni.com
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Episode Transcript
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Hello listeners, welcome to the Strength and Recovery podcast.
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We're so grateful to have you joining us.
We are joined by today's guest, Katie Hall. Katie is an alumnus of our Bracebridge Hall
location, which is an Earlville, Maryland gorgeous facility and just a real amazing place.
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Isn't it? Don't you think? So beautiful. Can you tell us where is Earlville, Maryland?
So Earlville is in the middle of nowhere. I actually lived in Earlville for a period of time
and I didn't know RCA was there. I lived in Middletown, Delaware when I got sober, so that was
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an appeal because it was close to home and I transferred to RCA from the hospital. I didn't
plan on getting sober, so I kind of walked in with the clothes on my back and needed to be able to
be close to home so people could bring me stuff, but it's absolutely gorgeous. I feel so blessed
to have gone there and through my sobriety journey, I've spoke in, I can't tell you how many places
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now, but like very sort places sometimes and it really makes me appreciate how blessed I am to
have gone to RCA. Well, I think I've met you at Racebridge for one of the alumni events.
Yep, exactly. We do try to get out there. I love when we get to have events on the property because
it's just a gorgeous setting and so I know everybody always thinks that you work there because
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you're there so much. So tell us how much you serve. You want to give back, right? And so how
has that been part of your recovery? You know, my sponsor really drives home the 12 steps.
She drives home all the steps, but you know, I think a lot of people get to their 12 step and
then they're just like, I'm not ready, you know, and what she always tells me is like, you weren't
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ready to drink either, but like get out there and you know, do your thing. So yeah, 90 days
over, I had my first sponsor and again, I'm terrified, right? And she's saying to me like, I know you
don't know what you're doing. You know you don't know what you're doing, but the person that you're
reading that book to doesn't know that you don't know what you're doing, right? And it's, we're
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reading a book, you're reading a book to somebody that you didn't write, your highlights aren't
original and you're just telling them about your experience and you know, eventually that led to
speaking commitments and eventually that led to board commitments and every other type of
commitment. One of my favorite things in the entire world is cooking and you know, I've been able to
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use that in service. I was going into the attack addiction houses and teaching them how to cook
just basic meals for when they're, you know, out on their own and also I have a monthly
commitment at a homeless shelter where I go down and cook meals for the residents of Dover.
I love that you took something, your talent, right, and found a place to plug that in. I know a lot
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of people are like, I don't have a special skill or I'm not a public speaker, but just telling your
story and sharing your heart and your talents, whatever those are, even if it's just life skills,
right? But it's something. I heard somebody say, I'm the best at laundry and even that
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skill to go in and teach people how to, I don't know, that's kind of a silly. Yeah, no, I have a
friend who is in recovery and she runs a laundry service. You know, she just, yeah, I'm just,
that's awesome, you know, I hate laundry. So, yeah, that would not be my special gift. I don't even know
why. I thought of it probably because it needs doing, right? Right. I started, I wrestled this egg.
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Is your responsibility to do your family's laundry not to make sure there's no laundry?
And I was like, oh, that's a good one. Yeah, I like that.
Why don't you take us back? What was life like before recovery?
Okay, you know, I'm the child of an alcoholic as well. And unfortunately, my mom died in active
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addiction, you know, direct result of her addiction, not necessary, she didn't overdose or anything
like that. But you know, basically her body gave out and she died in 2016. And, you know, I lived
my whole life swearing I would never be like her. And I didn't believe addiction was a disease
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until it happened to me, honestly. I resented her, I hated her. I wanted her to love me and love my
sister more than she loved drugs and alcohol. And, you know, now that I've gone through it, like,
I loved my children way more than I loved alcohol, don't, you know, let's not get it twisted. But
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at the end of the day, alcohol was more powerful than my children. And, you know, I got divorced,
um, actually five years ago today. And I mean, the addiction was definitely present before then.
But it got way worse after. Basically, mostly because I didn't have anybody watching me or like,
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holding me accountable. And it was almost like a permission slip to go do whatever I wanted.
So yeah, I mean, I just swear I would never be like her, right. And, you know, I'm going through
this divorce and, you know, I'm accomplishing things in acupediction. People don't talk about that a
lot, you know, a lot of my friends that are in the rooms, you know, were homeless and they were
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in jail and things like that. I was close to being homeless, but I wasn't homeless. I was close to
going to jail, but I didn't, right. I had a very promising career. I had a house. I had a car.
I had a boyfriend, you know, but it just like all this pain that I had endured, basically my whole
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life, you know, childhood and just pushing stuff down. Really, I was just like feeding myself medicine
with alcohol. And, you know, I always had a relationship with God or I thought I had a
relationship with God, I believed in God, but I wasn't trusting him. And, you know, the prayers that
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I had before were like, please God, let me win the lottery because I thought that was going to solve
my problems or, you know, let this man love me. And, you know, eventually it was like,
I don't want to wake up, you know, or, and then when I did wake up, it was like, please help me get
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sober. And like, I thought that those prayers were going to be answered with rainbows and sunshine.
I thought I was going to wake up one day and it would just be like, it's gone. But that's not
what happened. I had to be in enough pain, essentially to surrender. And the breaking point was
October 9th, 2021. I was drinking or driving, which I did all the time. It was a favorite
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pastime of mine. And I hit a family of four. And yeah, and I would like love to tell you that I
sat there and took the consequences of my actions. I would love to tell you that I made sure everybody
was okay, but I didn't. And I fled and I hid from the police for multiple days. And eventually
something came over me that, you know, just said like, there's a common denominator with all your
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problems and it's alcohol. And you need help. And, you know, I was Facebook friends with Vince.
Before I got sober, I don't know how we knew each other. I don't think we even did know each other.
But we grew up in the same area and it's very small. So we have a lot of mutual friends.
And Vince is our alumni coordinator. He helps a ton of people get into treatment. Alums, if they,
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you know, need to engage services again, or just anyone loved one's family friends,
he helps them find care. So it's just an amazing human, right? Oh my gosh, he went from,
you know, a Facebook friend to a mentor. I credit him a lot because I saw how much he
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did recover out loud. And I wanted what he had. And actually, one of the main reasons I decided to go
to RCI is because I thought he went there. That's where he got sober. Anyway, I ended up there after
like a five or six day stay in the hospital. Did you call Vince? Did he help you? He did. Yeah,
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I had, it was him and two other men that I knew that were sober that I was like communicating with
constantly. And I only went to the hospital first because I tried to get into another facility. And,
you know, this was kind of like the end ish or the height of COVID, I should say. And the other
facility wouldn't take me because I didn't have a bed. And they let me leave and drive drunk to
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the hospital. It was like insane to me, you know. So yeah, I ended up at RCI. And, you know, I just
remember just being completely hopeless, but willing at the same time, like I just wanted to
feel better. And I wanted my children to have a different life than I had. And I didn't want them
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to deal with, you know, growing up the way that I did. And they were four when I have twins. So
they were four when I got sober. And I was, I just think I got every day that like, hopefully by the
grace of God, you know, that they will never remember that life. And they're going to have a lot of
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new memories with mom. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. So what was that like, stepping into treatment for
the first time? Terrifying. Like, I didn't know what to expect. You know, I didn't know. I didn't
know, right? Like I saw the pamphlet when I was in detox at the hospital. And it looked like a very
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fancy place. So I was just like, oh, this is going to be luxurious. And it was. Don't get me wrong. I
tell people all the time, like, this is way nicer than, you know, some of the other facilities that
we have in the area when I bring people down to speak. They're just like, Oh my gosh, I should be
wearing a ball gown. Step into this place, you know. But it's, it was after like the first day,
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I was fine, you know, I had some amazing 12 step coaches along the way, one who no longer works
there. But coincidentally, we're in the same home group now. And she actually introduced me to my
sponsor. And that's, you know, where life took off, right? And while I was there, people thought I
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worked there then too. Yeah. Which was, makes me laugh. But I have a very corporate job. So I'm
very good at networking and things like that. So I think I was just like introducing myself
constantly to the newcomer. And we have a presence about you. You're the most is for sure.
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Yeah, something like that. And I went to group and I went to every group and there was rarely a time
that I sat in my room and, you know, there was of course, there was moments, you know,
I'm a big football fan. And it was the middle football season. So sometimes I run back to my
room to check the score on the game or something like that. But yeah, I took it really seriously.
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And like, I joke when I say this, but I'm like, if you told me to stare at the wall, rub a grapefruit
on my butt and sing Bohemia Rhapsody at the same time, and that would keep me sober, like that's
what I would have done. Like, it's that the gift of desperation, right? Absolutely. Yeah. That's
and thank God for that. Like every day, I thank God for that. Because I see so many people
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that don't come back from this. And you know, one of one of the things that they told me when I was
in there is get yourself a black dress because you're going to need it. And it's been painstakingly
true. I'll have two years next Friday. So it's just like, I mean, Monday, I went on a 12 step
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call for somebody I used to sponsor. And we had to call a paramedics. And it's just it's heartbreaking.
And, you know, I know we're not going to save the world. And I know that we're not going I'm not
even going to save the city of Wilmington. I know that. But you know, I feel responsible because
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as an alcoholic, like, who was at the lowest part of their life. You know, I'm responsible for that.
And I have this unique qualification to be able to help other people who are just like me.
Do you think there's something about the combination of and I think what I'm hearing you say it was
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desperation, but then also surrender? Absolutely. Oh, yeah. That's what I consider
walking into the hospital my moment of surrender, where I was just so beaten,
spiritually bankrupt. And I was just like, I can't do this anymore. Like, I cannot live like
this anymore. I was literally about to lose everything. I mean, and I did end up losing
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most things. But I've gotten them back over the past two years through lots of
my fat a little bit. Yeah, sure. What do you feel like really your addiction, if you had to sum up
the cost or the things that you lost? So I was like this way, I was a vice president at a law firm.
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When I came in, I was making almost $100,000 a year. And I had two side businesses, which I don't
even know how much money I was making during those. But one of those businesses was a mobile
bartending business. And the year I got sober, we did 65 weddings. So it's got to be close to
$200,000. Like that just went down the drain. I never made a mortgage payment in almost two years.
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And COVID protected me from being put out on the streets. But I had to deal with that,
essentially as soon as I got sober. So you're talking close to, I'm doing the math,
close to $300,000 a year and more than that probably. Yeah.
Where is all that going? Simply?
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Alcohol spending, right? Like just ludicrous spending.
I'm doing those along with...
Right. Yeah, I can't. There's no way I spent that much on just dues, obviously. I had to pay for
gas and daycare and clothes and things like that. But like, we were talking about laundry.
I didn't even do laundry for like six months because I was just so low and depressed. And I
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would just go and buy new clothes all the time for myself and my kids, which is insane. It is.
Sometimes I still have those tendencies where I'm like, I'll just go buy them a new outfit or
something like that. And then I'm like, no. And that's what the steps and spiritual solution
brings me back to. It brings me back to moments of clarity where it's like, you can do these
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things now and you don't have to live like that anymore.
I think that I wrote in my journal this week, I think we all face hard things, right? And
just understanding we have the capacity to do hard things, right?
Right. One face. I mean, it's tough and sometimes you have to talk yourself into it.
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But there are moments when we just have to kind of look ourselves in the mirror and
encourage ourselves that we do have those capabilities.
Absolutely. Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. There's nothing that I haven't been able to face
so far. There's the obsession of drinking is removed from me. Of course, there's a moment
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occasionally where I'm like, I bet I could just have one. And then I'm like, no, you can't.
You have proven time and time again. That was the obsession for me. It wasn't like,
let's get drunk every day. It was like, I'm just going to have one. And I would joke and I still
see some, sometimes I tell my story, I say this, but I used to joke that there was a magnet on
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the front of my car because the bar was at the front of my neighborhood. And I had to go past
it no matter what. Some people, when I was trying to get sober by myself, they would say, just don't
go in that entrance. Well, I have to get past it no matter what. And I would be like, you're not
going to go today. You're not going to go today. You're not going to go today. I'm like, whoop.
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And I would park and then I would be in the spot and be like, you're just going to have one.
And about six doubles later, I'd be like, let's get a little expensive. I should go over to
the liquor store. And I used to buy airplane bottles because to me, that's how I controlled
my drinking. And even the people at the liquor store would be like, why don't you just buy a
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handle? And I'd be like, oh, I'm controlling it. Like that's delusion. That's a true delusion. And
that's what I try to explain to people all the time. And it's funny when I tell that part of my
story a lot of times at Bryce Bridge, people just laugh because they're like, I did that
too. And there is a levity to all of this, right? Like that's the beauty of recoveries that we can
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joke about this stuff and see how crazy we were. And that's where I relate to a lot of my friends
because I am pretty much a purist alcoholic. I didn't do hard drugs or anything like that. But
my friends did. And they will compare stories. And it's even though the drug or choice is different,
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the stories are all the same. It's that compulsion. Right. Disease. Yep, exactly. And how it affects
the brain and understanding that chemistry. And it's part of what treatment does, right? It's
working with the therapist, working with the medical staff to understand, oh, I have altered
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my brain in such a way or through genetics, there's components, right? And just that understanding
alone gives you a sense of autonomy back. Absolutely, for sure. For sure. So you're suffering this
financial strain. Right. Building up. Yep. What other things would you say were the relationships
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you were losing at this time as well? Yeah, I mean, I was in a long term relationship at the
end of my addiction. You know, he tried to call me out multiple times. You know, I lied about it. Of
course, I would pretend like I was sober. So like if we went out, I would drink NA beer.
I would drink NA beer at the bar, but like, then I would go into the bathroom and have
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the airplane bottles in my purse and, you know, kept a bottle of mouthwash in my car and a toothbrush
because I didn't want anybody to smell the whiskey on my breath. And, you know, I really loved him.
But at the same time, like, knew that we weren't on the same page as to where the trajectory of
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our relationship was going. And just like the resentment and bitterness just like built up.
But again, I was just like pushing it down. So that night that I got into that car accident is
the night we actually broke up. And I was like going to confront him. And then I, you know,
decided I shouldn't be doing that. And when I turned around, I hit the family, you know, so then
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I'm facing legal consequences too. Right. Like I know the police are looking for me. I knew if and
when they got me, I was going to lose custody of my children because my ex-husband was already
suspicious that, you know, I'd been having that the addiction had gotten way worse since we had been
divorced. I was on short-term disability because I had broken my ankle two months before.
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I was not drunk when I broke it. And I always feel the need to tell everybody that.
They assume because I fell down my stairs. So like there, you know, I understand why people
assume that. But, you know, I had been on short-term disability for like two months at that point.
I knew if I went to rehab that like that was going to extend it even longer. I was also not
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getting paid even though I was supposed to like, you know, just fighting with the insurance company
to pay me and those things get delayed. And I was just terrified. Like there's no other way to describe
it besides complete terror. You know, as I've learned through the steps and, you know, working
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with a sponsor is like, I push you where I need you and God won't push you through anything that
you can't get through. And now I have a greater appreciation for all those things for sure.
Did the legal consequences catch up with you with the car? Yep. So I turned myself in while I was in
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rehab. One of the drivers took me to the police station. Did you decide to do that? Did you
feel like that? My therapist strongly encouraged it. He was like, it's going to look better for you
if you turn yourself in while you're here, rather than, you know, wait the longer you wait at the
worst it's going to be. And so I'm so full of myself in this moment that like, you know, I don't have
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my cell phone. So I'm driving an hour to go turn myself in with this driver. I'm wearing my RCA
Maybe Blue T-shirt. And like, all I can think of is I'm going to have my rehab T-shirt on in my mug
shot. Like that's like insanity, right? Like that I'm so self-absorbed with myself in that moment
that that's all I can think about. Like not if I hurt that family. Thank God nobody was hurt, by the
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way. And you know, there was no mug shot. There was no handcuffs. They just handed me a stack of tickets.
And I ended up losing my driver's license for six months. I should have lost it for a year
because I didn't have insurance at the time either. And my sponsor wrote me a gleaming letter
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recommendation because by the time the court case came around, I had like eight months of sobriety
or something like that. So she wrote me this like gleaming letter recommendation and the
prosecutor called her and she told me she was like, I've written dozens of letters. And she's
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like, they've never called me before. And they took a little bit of pity on me, you know,
that I was really serious on that. I'm not just a person who goes to meetings, but a member of a
12 step fellowship, you know, that I do this, I do this for real. And yeah, so I lost that
June of 22, I got my license back December of last year. And you know, I was able to get a car,
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get insurance, which is outrageously expensive, but you know, I can afford it. It's just,
it's just a little gut punch every month, you know, so I think we all feel that way.
Yeah. Yeah. And it's, I think there's something, there's, there's gotta be some,
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um, it's gotta feel good to be able to do that. Like, oh, wow. Absolutely.
Even the little, even when they are, even when, but you know, I'm doing the hard things.
Yeah, I was actually just talking about that with my boyfriend's mom, because, um,
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you know, when I got out of rehab, I didn't have gas in my house. And so this is so dangerous.
Don't anybody ever do this. But I was like literally sleeping with the oven on, on broil,
just to like warm the house of the pipes, what in freeze and, you know, sleeping with like
a space heater in my bedroom. And because I had to sell the house, right? Like I hadn't never made
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a mortgage payment on it. And I had like a small window of opportunity where I could sell it before
I went to share sale. And, um, you know, now, like the beginning of last year, I think the electric
bill was like $500 because I was living in like a historic home. And I was like, but you hit,
here's the beauty. I can pay that. Right. Like, and I can do that. And I get to have heat in my
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house and I get to have air conditioning and like, I can leave the lights on. It's, it's okay. You
know. And I guess we talked about the loss, but these are the things that are coming back. The
finance, the, what else do you think has come back to you? Gifts of recovery. So this is,
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I can say this in my sleep because I say it every time I speak, but you know, what my sponsor tells
me is this is no longer my business where I live, where I work, where I'm with, right? And
you got one more time where I live, where I work, or who I'm with is none of my business.
Okay. And so she means by that. So, you know, basically just surrendering and asking God to
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put you where you need to, right? So like, to the next level, right? That's like,
yeah, it's, it's, it hasn't failed me. I don't know how to say, but it's not lack of taking
responsibility. It's, you know, to go back to what I've heard people say, doing the next right thing
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until all those things fall into place, right? Exactly. So, you know, I needed a place to live
and I knew I was going to lose my driver's license. So I work in the financial industry. So
if anybody doesn't know, almost all the banks are in Wilmington. And I needed to
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basically move to Wilmington to be able to afford to Uber around and get around. And I went and
looked at this house and, you know, I know nothing about Wilmington at this time. And I was
like asking people, like, is this a nice area, you know, that type of thing. And I went and looked
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at this house and like, I think I had 60 days of sobriety time. And my credit score was like 419.
It was like really bad. And, you know, basically I just wrote a letter and like asked them to
take pity on me. And they did. And they only took pity on me because their son was one of us. And
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he was not sober at the time. You know, I would challenge the word pity. They took a chance,
right? Yeah, I wouldn't say pity. They definitely took a chance. Right. And we moved in, or I moved
in February of 2022. I sold my house 90s before I went to share a sale. And I only was able to sell
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it because like Don showed up there, my realtor that day. And he decided not to take a commission.
So I walked away, like, you know, I didn't make any money, which I didn't deserve to make any money
because I never made a mortgage payment, but I also didn't have any money. And then after I got my
driver's license back, and you know, I got a car. I was like, I don't really need to live in the city
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anymore. And I loved living in the city. Don't get me wrong, but not paying city tax and not
living in a row house was pretty appealing, like living in the suburbs. Plus I knew that it would
be more appealing for my ex-husband to give my children back if I had a yard and like the place
for them to play. And I went and looked at this house. And again, I recover out loud. It is not a
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secret Delaware is a very small place. Everybody knows everybody. And I look at this house and
the guys like the landlord, he's like, I understand you're a server member of a 12 step fellowship.
And I was like, I am. And he was like the house is yours. You can have it, no credit check, no
background check. You know, when do you want to move in? And he flipped the house. And he let me
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pick every single thing out. So we went from like a two bedroom row house to a five bedroom
single family. Yeah, it's I love it here. I never I live in Ellesmere, which is like a suburb of
Wilmington and not where I ever thought I would be. But again, God puts me where it needs me. And
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like, I'm 17 minutes from my office, close, like my, my home group is five minutes away, you know,
I'm able to get to anything within a few minutes. And then, you know, my ex says my dick is like
it's back. And now I have them every weekend, we never went to court. There was no like fighting,
screaming. It was just like, I see what you're doing. And I trust you. And then my job, right,
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like I came in, like I said, I was the vice president of a law firm. But I was really miserable,
like really, really miserable. And I was not, I was just not succeeding. I felt like I couldn't do
anything right. And I just knew that the end was coming to that job. And you know, out of fear,
I was like, call my sponsor and I'm like, what do I do? And she's like, you need to ask God
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to put you wearing each. And I said, well, I can't make less money. And she was like,
oh, sweet child. She laughs at me a lot. And she's like, that will provide like you stick
close to God and perform his work, you help his kids and help her ride. And so I did and I took
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a $12,000 a year pay cut. And I went into this job at a different company. And, you know,
they might not have been able to financially compensate me, but they gave me grace. They gave
me empathy. They allowed me to recover out loud there. You know, when I didn't have a driver's
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license, they only asked that I come in the office one day a week. And, you know, eventually that
job got to be, I felt like I was out growing it a little bit. And then I got an offer at another
financial institution. I've been doing this for 18 years, I can't believe it. But anyway,
with a 56% pay increase, and I am, I just can't fathom. Like, I think back five years ago when I
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got divorced, and I'm making $80,000 more a year than I was then. And it's just like,
I don't have a degree, you know, I'm very proud of the fact that I don't have a degree. I've had to
work very hard for everything I've ever had. But 18 years ago, I walked into Bank of America,
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$12 an hour call center job. And I really thought like in my little heart of hearts,
like, I really hope someday I'm able to make $20 an hour. And, you know, through hard work and
discipline and networking, and just, you know, the gift of God that's gotten me here.
And being yourself.
(33:51):
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Tell me what's been the hardest thing you've had to do?
Give up my kids. Because like my initial thought is, no, you know, and they need, they need their
(34:13):
mom. But like, I got that I got served with the papers when I was doing my sixth step,
which is, you know, your power hour of God. And it was like peace was brought to me,
because I wanted to give them a chance. And I wanted to give myself a chance.
(34:33):
And, you know, only seeing them for two hours a week for almost two years was rough. It was
really rough. And having to just kind of like step back and be like, you're not the right person
for them right now.
And every time I've talked to you, I mean, I just remember our, like, you've always mentioned
(34:55):
your kids.
I love them so much.
You know, I'm working on this. I'm working on this.
Yeah. They're the loves of my life, you know, and I can't imagine life without them. And I'm
so grateful that I get to give them a better life than I had, you know.
(35:17):
And what do you think the role of grieving the relationship with your mom? How do you
think that impacted your alcoholism?
I had to forgive her, you know, and I do think the addiction got worse because I just
(35:38):
pushed it down. I just blamed her for everything. And I couldn't see how powerful the drugs
and alcohol were, you know.
And I also like really selfishly held on to that for a long time, like used it as an
excuse to drink.
Like.
What way?
(35:59):
Just being like, it would be the anniversary of her death or her birthday. And I'd be like,
well, might as well get drunk today. Like, and like, that's crazy. She died because we're
direct result of her addiction and here I am drinking, you know.
(36:21):
And it's really the pain.
You were feeling the pain.
Yeah, it's the pain of, you know, what could have been, you know, we never had a great
relationship because of it. I loved her very much and I still do, you know. And I'm
sure I can recognize now that how hard that must have been and also give her grace to
(36:43):
you.
You have 10 sponsors, you said.
I don't even know how many I need to sit down and calculate something like that.
And I'm sure you've had more through this project.
Yeah.
I'm sure you've helped others through that grief journey and through similar relationships
with their parents.
Definitely.
What's your, how do you help them? How do you, what do you say?
(37:08):
I just, most of the time, if I have a spouse who has a parent that's past, I have them write
an immense letter to their parents. That's what I did. I took it to my mom's grave and
I talked to her, you know, and it was one of the hardest men's I had to make.
(37:29):
A lot of people would say, well, why did you owe her a mens? She was the alcoholic. She
didn't, you know, she wasn't maybe a traditional mother to you.
Right.
Well, I was mean to her because of the way that, because of her addiction, you know,
(37:51):
I stopped talking to her for the first, for the last year of her life, you know, never
gave her an explanation. There was never a goodbye. You did this, like giving her justification.
I just essentially ghosted her. And really, you know, something that I heard somebody say about
(38:13):
they had a parent who was an alcoholic or an addict. Maybe like, did you ever ask them the
way that they grew up? And I did not know, excuse me, did not know that my grandparents
were alcoholics too, until much later in life. You know, I don't remember those things. My
(38:33):
grandmother died when I was 13, my grandfather died when I was five. It's not something I grew up with,
but apparently my grandfather was a really mean drunk. I like that.
It's emotional trauma. Right. And it is genetic, right? Like, you know, just, it doesn't always
affect everybody. But as far as I know, I'm the first person to be sober in my family, like,
(38:56):
be in recovery. And I just think how powerful that is. It's amazing. Right. And what a new
legacy you're providing, not only with your actions, but the education, helping others.
It's really beautiful, Katie. Thank you. And I'm so excited for your kids to be able to see that.
(39:22):
You know, there's hope that there's power on the other side. What do you think,
what would be your tip for someone parenting in recovery? How do everybody says, how do you
talk to your kids about that? I haven't thought about that at all, because they're so young. Right.
(39:44):
They're six now. It's weird because I wonder if they remember things,
but I also don't want to cause further harm by bringing it up. When they're old enough,
probably like 14, 15, I plan to sit down and make a formal amendments to them and explain to them,
(40:07):
you know, why they weren't with me. So I thought I had it easy out because I broke my ankle two
months before I got sober. So they thought I was getting helped for my ankle. But, you know,
within the first year of me getting sober, I was with my ex-husband's girlfriend and the kids,
(40:28):
and we were taking them somewhere. And they were like, mommy, remember the, that's the mommy juice
store you used to go to, you know, and I'm like, it doesn't actually cringe. Cause like, I'm just
like, I don't want them to know that. How would you plan to talk to them about drugs and alcohol?
I'm under no delusion that I'm going to be able to stop them from trying drugs or alcohol. Right.
(40:52):
I would hope that they don't try drugs. And I hope if they decide that they want to drink,
that they do it safely. You know, I was warned many times. But, you know, all I can do is provide
education. And if they, I hope that they can see someday, like if they are having a problem,
(41:17):
that they know that they can come to me, you know, recovery, help others and,
and going to meeting, I think that's such a legacy. For sure. It's, this is what mom valued,
right? Right. To tune them. And they see some of that now. They know I throw down and cook for
(41:40):
the homeless once a month. And they're like, why, you know, why do you do that? And I'm like, we
help people that can't help themselves, you know, and just trying to teach them kindness and like
tolerant to patients and pity always, you know, and, you know, it's like it says, you know, a more
important display of these principles and are in our respective affairs and homes, you know, and
(42:05):
something I just didn't really have, you know, yeah, I don't want that. I don't want what I had
for them. And we're, I don't want them to ever have to worry about me, you know, the way that I
worry about my mom. Any, any last things you would want to share with us before we wrap up?
(42:29):
Yeah, so I have to talk about my boyfriend because this is okay. I want to hear.
I want to hear. We are here for it. Again, it's none of your business who you're with, right. And so
some people will tell you that you have to wait a year to get into a relationship. It doesn't say
that anywhere in any literature. My sponsor did not tell me to wait a year. She just told me to
(42:52):
get through my steps, right. And then she told me, she said, I want you to make an ideals list,
right. And I'm still insane at this point. I'm like 90 days sober. And my ideals list
was six foot five drives a truck, has tattoos, red hair and like, civilization eagles, right.
(43:19):
The huge Eagles fan. And she was like, she was like, that's not what I meant, you know, and
honest, kind, hard work, those kind of things, right. Yeah. She was like spiritual ideals.
So I wrote down humble, kind, funny, smart, hardworking, sober, right. They don't need to be
(43:46):
in the rooms, but like somebody who doesn't have a problem with alcohol, essentially. And
she was like, here's the deal though, you have to be all those things on that list, except for
the sober, rich one, like you actually need to be sober. And then she said, and I want you to
say this prayer and it's, Dear God, please put a healthy man into my life on your time.
(44:06):
Right. And that's what I did. And I met him like two weeks later. And, you know, we closed down
the restaurant the first night, but like he didn't kiss me on our first day. And I was just like,
he must not really like me, right. But I was just wasn't like used to being respected,
really. And, you know, he moved in like two months later and we've been together ever since. And I
(44:31):
just like think that I want to know, is he six foot five? Did he have a red hair? He's not six foot
five. He doesn't drive a truck. He doesn't have any tattoos. He does have red hair. And he is an
eagles fan. Two out of five. Right. So bad, right. But he is humble to a fault. He is kind, smart,
(44:53):
funniest person I've ever met. Right. Hard working to the point that it drives me crazy sometimes.
And he's sober-ish, right. Like he does not. I think I can probably count on one hand how many
times he's drank since we've been together and spent almost two years. Which is just like
(45:15):
mind blowing to me. Like I always be like, you can have a drink if you want it doesn't bother me.
And he's like, I don't feel the need. And I'm like, I don't know what that feels like.
You know, I was going to cut things off like pretty quickly to our relationship because of
his work schedule. He's a restaurant manager. So it's like, not great. Yeah. Especially when I
(45:37):
work in corporate and then he's working like nights and stuff. So my sponsor was like, let me ask
you something. Is this the first time you haven't been in a co-dependent relationship? And then
she said, let me ask you something. Is it possible that his schedule allowed you to focus on your
recovery? And I was like, you're right. And you know, he's my best friend. We have a puppy together
(46:05):
now. And then he also told me, he's like, you know, we matched on like a dating app back in 2019
and you wouldn't answer my messages. And I was like, you better thank God. That was God helping
you out, buddy. And the 12 steps and these spiritual principles have helped me through
(46:31):
everything, you know, like the lows and the highs, right? And like being humble and not being
boastful and things. And also like
dealing with anything, like it's this isn't a this isn't a program to solve the drink problem.
(46:56):
It's to solve all your problems. Yeah, I'm just so grateful. And like I'll show you this. I have
this little shelf next to it. It says kind of have my coins there. No, you have a favorite recovery
quote. Is it on that shelf? Is that a favorite one? We always end with a favorite recovery quote.
(47:22):
So, yes, we will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace. That's beautiful. Yeah,
so I have another holder up because I'm getting ready to get another coin. And I just I might put
(47:42):
that holder up later that I started hysterically crying because I was just like I couldn't even get
a day. You know, and now coming up on two years, it's just crazy to me. We're celebrating with you.
Well, thank you. Your accomplishments and thank you so much for your service.
Absolutely. And speaking to our patients, being part of the alumni, it really it helps to have,
(48:09):
to see alums at all stages in the journey, right? Like sometimes when looking at somebody's got two
years seems so unattainable. And so having somebody who's just in the beginning stages,
it's important to see that. But then it's also important to see people coming back into life
and putting all the pieces back together and and what what that looks like too. So thank you so much.
(48:35):
Absolutely. It's an honor and a privilege, honestly. And I'm so grateful for our Sia and for all of you.
And especially Vince. It's a privilege to do what we do. Yeah. And gentlemen, thank you so much for
listening today. If you are someone you know needs help, please reach out reach out to one of our
(48:57):
alumni coordinators. They can help our alums or anyone you know, who who just needs to talk to
somebody and and talk about getting help. Call 1-833-RCA-ALUM or go on to our website, rcaalumni.com.
(49:17):
We have over 130 support group meetings a month that you can be a part of. You don't have to be
affiliated with RCA to join one of those support groups. And we would love to see you and help
you learn more about recovery. Thank you. Have a great day.
(49:40):
Thank you for listening to the Strength and Recovery podcast. If you enjoyed this episode,
please tap the subscribe button and leave us a review. We love hearing from our listeners
and hope to reach more of you out there as we continue to share these incredible stories of
recovery. The RCA alumni team aims to provide a safe supportive environment for those in the
(50:03):
recovery community, regardless of their affiliation with RCA. We host a full calendar of virtual and
in-person meetings seven days a week, 365 days a year, as well as free sober events every month.
To learn more about what we do, find us at rcaalumni.com. Remember, if you or a loved one is
(50:27):
struggling with addiction, pick up the phone and dial 1-833-RCA-ALUM. Help is available 24-7.
Listen to another episode now or join us next time for the Strength and Recovery podcast.
Hello listeners, welcome to the Strength and Recovery podcast.
(00:19):
We're so grateful to have you joining us.
We are joined by today's guest, Katie Hall. Katie is an alumnus of our Bracebridge Hall
location, which is an Earlville, Maryland gorgeous facility and just a real amazing place.
(00:43):
Isn't it? Don't you think? So beautiful. Can you tell us where is Earlville, Maryland?
So Earlville is in the middle of nowhere. I actually lived in Earlville for a period of time
and I didn't know RCA was there. I lived in Middletown, Delaware when I got sober, so that was
(01:06):
an appeal because it was close to home and I transferred to RCA from the hospital. I didn't
plan on getting sober, so I kind of walked in with the clothes on my back and needed to be able to
be close to home so people could bring me stuff, but it's absolutely gorgeous. I feel so blessed
to have gone there and through my sobriety journey, I've spoke in, I can't tell you how many places
(01:34):
now, but like very sort places sometimes and it really makes me appreciate how blessed I am to
have gone to RCA. Well, I think I've met you at Racebridge for one of the alumni events.
Yep, exactly. We do try to get out there. I love when we get to have events on the property because
it's just a gorgeous setting and so I know everybody always thinks that you work there because
(02:01):
you're there so much. So tell us how much you serve. You want to give back, right? And so how
has that been part of your recovery? You know, my sponsor really drives home the 12 steps.
She drives home all the steps, but you know, I think a lot of people get to their 12 step and
then they're just like, I'm not ready, you know, and what she always tells me is like, you weren't
(02:25):
ready to drink either, but like get out there and you know, do your thing. So yeah, 90 days
over, I had my first sponsor and again, I'm terrified, right? And she's saying to me like, I know you
don't know what you're doing. You know you don't know what you're doing, but the person that you're
reading that book to doesn't know that you don't know what you're doing, right? And it's, we're
(02:48):
reading a book, you're reading a book to somebody that you didn't write, your highlights aren't
original and you're just telling them about your experience and you know, eventually that led to
speaking commitments and eventually that led to board commitments and every other type of
commitment. One of my favorite things in the entire world is cooking and you know, I've been able to
(03:13):
use that in service. I was going into the attack addiction houses and teaching them how to cook
just basic meals for when they're, you know, out on their own and also I have a monthly
commitment at a homeless shelter where I go down and cook meals for the residents of Dover.
I love that you took something, your talent, right, and found a place to plug that in. I know a lot
(03:36):
of people are like, I don't have a special skill or I'm not a public speaker, but just telling your
story and sharing your heart and your talents, whatever those are, even if it's just life skills,
right? But it's something. I heard somebody say, I'm the best at laundry and even that
(04:00):
skill to go in and teach people how to, I don't know, that's kind of a silly. Yeah, no, I have a
friend who is in recovery and she runs a laundry service. You know, she just, yeah, I'm just,
that's awesome, you know, I hate laundry. So, yeah, that would not be my special gift. I don't even know
why. I thought of it probably because it needs doing, right? Right. I started, I wrestled this egg.
(04:26):
Is your responsibility to do your family's laundry not to make sure there's no laundry?
And I was like, oh, that's a good one. Yeah, I like that.
Why don't you take us back? What was life like before recovery?
Okay, you know, I'm the child of an alcoholic as well. And unfortunately, my mom died in active
(04:54):
addiction, you know, direct result of her addiction, not necessary, she didn't overdose or anything
like that. But you know, basically her body gave out and she died in 2016. And, you know, I lived
my whole life swearing I would never be like her. And I didn't believe addiction was a disease
(05:15):
until it happened to me, honestly. I resented her, I hated her. I wanted her to love me and love my
sister more than she loved drugs and alcohol. And, you know, now that I've gone through it, like,
I loved my children way more than I loved alcohol, don't, you know, let's not get it twisted. But
(05:36):
at the end of the day, alcohol was more powerful than my children. And, you know, I got divorced,
um, actually five years ago today. And I mean, the addiction was definitely present before then.
But it got way worse after. Basically, mostly because I didn't have anybody watching me or like,
(06:02):
holding me accountable. And it was almost like a permission slip to go do whatever I wanted.
So yeah, I mean, I just swear I would never be like her, right. And, you know, I'm going through
this divorce and, you know, I'm accomplishing things in acupediction. People don't talk about that a
lot, you know, a lot of my friends that are in the rooms, you know, were homeless and they were
(06:30):
in jail and things like that. I was close to being homeless, but I wasn't homeless. I was close to
going to jail, but I didn't, right. I had a very promising career. I had a house. I had a car.
I had a boyfriend, you know, but it just like all this pain that I had endured, basically my whole
(06:51):
life, you know, childhood and just pushing stuff down. Really, I was just like feeding myself medicine
with alcohol. And, you know, I always had a relationship with God or I thought I had a
relationship with God, I believed in God, but I wasn't trusting him. And, you know, the prayers that
(07:11):
I had before were like, please God, let me win the lottery because I thought that was going to solve
my problems or, you know, let this man love me. And, you know, eventually it was like,
I don't want to wake up, you know, or, and then when I did wake up, it was like, please help me get
(07:33):
sober. And like, I thought that those prayers were going to be answered with rainbows and sunshine.
I thought I was going to wake up one day and it would just be like, it's gone. But that's not
what happened. I had to be in enough pain, essentially to surrender. And the breaking point was
October 9th, 2021. I was drinking or driving, which I did all the time. It was a favorite
(07:59):
pastime of mine. And I hit a family of four. And yeah, and I would like love to tell you that I
sat there and took the consequences of my actions. I would love to tell you that I made sure everybody
was okay, but I didn't. And I fled and I hid from the police for multiple days. And eventually
something came over me that, you know, just said like, there's a common denominator with all your
(08:24):
problems and it's alcohol. And you need help. And, you know, I was Facebook friends with Vince.
Before I got sober, I don't know how we knew each other. I don't think we even did know each other.
But we grew up in the same area and it's very small. So we have a lot of mutual friends.
And Vince is our alumni coordinator. He helps a ton of people get into treatment. Alums, if they,
(08:48):
you know, need to engage services again, or just anyone loved one's family friends,
he helps them find care. So it's just an amazing human, right? Oh my gosh, he went from,
you know, a Facebook friend to a mentor. I credit him a lot because I saw how much he
(09:08):
did recover out loud. And I wanted what he had. And actually, one of the main reasons I decided to go
to RCI is because I thought he went there. That's where he got sober. Anyway, I ended up there after
like a five or six day stay in the hospital. Did you call Vince? Did he help you? He did. Yeah,
(09:29):
I had, it was him and two other men that I knew that were sober that I was like communicating with
constantly. And I only went to the hospital first because I tried to get into another facility. And,
you know, this was kind of like the end ish or the height of COVID, I should say. And the other
facility wouldn't take me because I didn't have a bed. And they let me leave and drive drunk to
(09:55):
the hospital. It was like insane to me, you know. So yeah, I ended up at RCI. And, you know, I just
remember just being completely hopeless, but willing at the same time, like I just wanted to
feel better. And I wanted my children to have a different life than I had. And I didn't want them
(10:20):
to deal with, you know, growing up the way that I did. And they were four when I have twins. So
they were four when I got sober. And I was, I just think I got every day that like, hopefully by the
grace of God, you know, that they will never remember that life. And they're going to have a lot of
(10:44):
new memories with mom. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. So what was that like, stepping into treatment for
the first time? Terrifying. Like, I didn't know what to expect. You know, I didn't know. I didn't
know, right? Like I saw the pamphlet when I was in detox at the hospital. And it looked like a very
(11:10):
fancy place. So I was just like, oh, this is going to be luxurious. And it was. Don't get me wrong. I
tell people all the time, like, this is way nicer than, you know, some of the other facilities that
we have in the area when I bring people down to speak. They're just like, Oh my gosh, I should be
wearing a ball gown. Step into this place, you know. But it's, it was after like the first day,
(11:40):
I was fine, you know, I had some amazing 12 step coaches along the way, one who no longer works
there. But coincidentally, we're in the same home group now. And she actually introduced me to my
sponsor. And that's, you know, where life took off, right? And while I was there, people thought I
(12:03):
worked there then too. Yeah. Which was, makes me laugh. But I have a very corporate job. So I'm
very good at networking and things like that. So I think I was just like introducing myself
constantly to the newcomer. And we have a presence about you. You're the most is for sure.
(12:24):
Yeah, something like that. And I went to group and I went to every group and there was rarely a time
that I sat in my room and, you know, there was of course, there was moments, you know,
I'm a big football fan. And it was the middle football season. So sometimes I run back to my
room to check the score on the game or something like that. But yeah, I took it really seriously.
(12:49):
And like, I joke when I say this, but I'm like, if you told me to stare at the wall, rub a grapefruit
on my butt and sing Bohemia Rhapsody at the same time, and that would keep me sober, like that's
what I would have done. Like, it's that the gift of desperation, right? Absolutely. Yeah. That's
and thank God for that. Like every day, I thank God for that. Because I see so many people
(13:16):
that don't come back from this. And you know, one of one of the things that they told me when I was
in there is get yourself a black dress because you're going to need it. And it's been painstakingly
true. I'll have two years next Friday. So it's just like, I mean, Monday, I went on a 12 step
(13:36):
call for somebody I used to sponsor. And we had to call a paramedics. And it's just it's heartbreaking.
And, you know, I know we're not going to save the world. And I know that we're not going I'm not
even going to save the city of Wilmington. I know that. But you know, I feel responsible because
(13:57):
as an alcoholic, like, who was at the lowest part of their life. You know, I'm responsible for that.
And I have this unique qualification to be able to help other people who are just like me.
Do you think there's something about the combination of and I think what I'm hearing you say it was
(14:19):
desperation, but then also surrender? Absolutely. Oh, yeah. That's what I consider
walking into the hospital my moment of surrender, where I was just so beaten,
spiritually bankrupt. And I was just like, I can't do this anymore. Like, I cannot live like
this anymore. I was literally about to lose everything. I mean, and I did end up losing
(14:46):
most things. But I've gotten them back over the past two years through lots of
my fat a little bit. Yeah, sure. What do you feel like really your addiction, if you had to sum up
the cost or the things that you lost? So I was like this way, I was a vice president at a law firm.
(15:10):
When I came in, I was making almost $100,000 a year. And I had two side businesses, which I don't
even know how much money I was making during those. But one of those businesses was a mobile
bartending business. And the year I got sober, we did 65 weddings. So it's got to be close to
$200,000. Like that just went down the drain. I never made a mortgage payment in almost two years.
(15:38):
And COVID protected me from being put out on the streets. But I had to deal with that,
essentially as soon as I got sober. So you're talking close to, I'm doing the math,
close to $300,000 a year and more than that probably. Yeah.
Where is all that going? Simply?
(16:02):
Alcohol spending, right? Like just ludicrous spending.
I'm doing those along with...
Right. Yeah, I can't. There's no way I spent that much on just dues, obviously. I had to pay for
gas and daycare and clothes and things like that. But like, we were talking about laundry.
I didn't even do laundry for like six months because I was just so low and depressed. And I
(16:29):
would just go and buy new clothes all the time for myself and my kids, which is insane. It is.
Sometimes I still have those tendencies where I'm like, I'll just go buy them a new outfit or
something like that. And then I'm like, no. And that's what the steps and spiritual solution
brings me back to. It brings me back to moments of clarity where it's like, you can do these
(16:53):
things now and you don't have to live like that anymore.
I think that I wrote in my journal this week, I think we all face hard things, right? And
just understanding we have the capacity to do hard things, right?
Right. One face. I mean, it's tough and sometimes you have to talk yourself into it.
(17:17):
But there are moments when we just have to kind of look ourselves in the mirror and
encourage ourselves that we do have those capabilities.
Absolutely. Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. There's nothing that I haven't been able to face
so far. There's the obsession of drinking is removed from me. Of course, there's a moment
(17:43):
occasionally where I'm like, I bet I could just have one. And then I'm like, no, you can't.
You have proven time and time again. That was the obsession for me. It wasn't like,
let's get drunk every day. It was like, I'm just going to have one. And I would joke and I still
see some, sometimes I tell my story, I say this, but I used to joke that there was a magnet on
(18:03):
the front of my car because the bar was at the front of my neighborhood. And I had to go past
it no matter what. Some people, when I was trying to get sober by myself, they would say, just don't
go in that entrance. Well, I have to get past it no matter what. And I would be like, you're not
going to go today. You're not going to go today. You're not going to go today. I'm like, whoop.
(18:24):
And I would park and then I would be in the spot and be like, you're just going to have one.
And about six doubles later, I'd be like, let's get a little expensive. I should go over to
the liquor store. And I used to buy airplane bottles because to me, that's how I controlled
my drinking. And even the people at the liquor store would be like, why don't you just buy a
(18:47):
handle? And I'd be like, oh, I'm controlling it. Like that's delusion. That's a true delusion. And
that's what I try to explain to people all the time. And it's funny when I tell that part of my
story a lot of times at Bryce Bridge, people just laugh because they're like, I did that
too. And there is a levity to all of this, right? Like that's the beauty of recoveries that we can
(19:13):
joke about this stuff and see how crazy we were. And that's where I relate to a lot of my friends
because I am pretty much a purist alcoholic. I didn't do hard drugs or anything like that. But
my friends did. And they will compare stories. And it's even though the drug or choice is different,
(19:37):
the stories are all the same. It's that compulsion. Right. Disease. Yep, exactly. And how it affects
the brain and understanding that chemistry. And it's part of what treatment does, right? It's
working with the therapist, working with the medical staff to understand, oh, I have altered
(20:00):
my brain in such a way or through genetics, there's components, right? And just that understanding
alone gives you a sense of autonomy back. Absolutely, for sure. For sure. So you're suffering this
financial strain. Right. Building up. Yep. What other things would you say were the relationships
(20:29):
you were losing at this time as well? Yeah, I mean, I was in a long term relationship at the
end of my addiction. You know, he tried to call me out multiple times. You know, I lied about it. Of
course, I would pretend like I was sober. So like if we went out, I would drink NA beer.
I would drink NA beer at the bar, but like, then I would go into the bathroom and have
(20:54):
the airplane bottles in my purse and, you know, kept a bottle of mouthwash in my car and a toothbrush
because I didn't want anybody to smell the whiskey on my breath. And, you know, I really loved him.
But at the same time, like, knew that we weren't on the same page as to where the trajectory of
(21:14):
our relationship was going. And just like the resentment and bitterness just like built up.
But again, I was just like pushing it down. So that night that I got into that car accident is
the night we actually broke up. And I was like going to confront him. And then I, you know,
decided I shouldn't be doing that. And when I turned around, I hit the family, you know, so then
(21:39):
I'm facing legal consequences too. Right. Like I know the police are looking for me. I knew if and
when they got me, I was going to lose custody of my children because my ex-husband was already
suspicious that, you know, I'd been having that the addiction had gotten way worse since we had been
divorced. I was on short-term disability because I had broken my ankle two months before.
(22:05):
I was not drunk when I broke it. And I always feel the need to tell everybody that.
They assume because I fell down my stairs. So like there, you know, I understand why people
assume that. But, you know, I had been on short-term disability for like two months at that point.
I knew if I went to rehab that like that was going to extend it even longer. I was also not
(22:30):
getting paid even though I was supposed to like, you know, just fighting with the insurance company
to pay me and those things get delayed. And I was just terrified. Like there's no other way to describe
it besides complete terror. You know, as I've learned through the steps and, you know, working
(22:51):
with a sponsor is like, I push you where I need you and God won't push you through anything that
you can't get through. And now I have a greater appreciation for all those things for sure.
Did the legal consequences catch up with you with the car? Yep. So I turned myself in while I was in
(23:11):
rehab. One of the drivers took me to the police station. Did you decide to do that? Did you
feel like that? My therapist strongly encouraged it. He was like, it's going to look better for you
if you turn yourself in while you're here, rather than, you know, wait the longer you wait at the
worst it's going to be. And so I'm so full of myself in this moment that like, you know, I don't have
(23:38):
my cell phone. So I'm driving an hour to go turn myself in with this driver. I'm wearing my RCA
Maybe Blue T-shirt. And like, all I can think of is I'm going to have my rehab T-shirt on in my mug
shot. Like that's like insanity, right? Like that I'm so self-absorbed with myself in that moment
that that's all I can think about. Like not if I hurt that family. Thank God nobody was hurt, by the
(24:04):
way. And you know, there was no mug shot. There was no handcuffs. They just handed me a stack of tickets.
And I ended up losing my driver's license for six months. I should have lost it for a year
because I didn't have insurance at the time either. And my sponsor wrote me a gleaming letter
(24:26):
recommendation because by the time the court case came around, I had like eight months of sobriety
or something like that. So she wrote me this like gleaming letter recommendation and the
prosecutor called her and she told me she was like, I've written dozens of letters. And she's
(24:48):
like, they've never called me before. And they took a little bit of pity on me, you know,
that I was really serious on that. I'm not just a person who goes to meetings, but a member of a
12 step fellowship, you know, that I do this, I do this for real. And yeah, so I lost that
June of 22, I got my license back December of last year. And you know, I was able to get a car,
(25:13):
get insurance, which is outrageously expensive, but you know, I can afford it. It's just,
it's just a little gut punch every month, you know, so I think we all feel that way.
Yeah. Yeah. And it's, I think there's something, there's, there's gotta be some,
(25:35):
um, it's gotta feel good to be able to do that. Like, oh, wow. Absolutely.
Even the little, even when they are, even when, but you know, I'm doing the hard things.
Yeah, I was actually just talking about that with my boyfriend's mom, because, um,
(25:58):
you know, when I got out of rehab, I didn't have gas in my house. And so this is so dangerous.
Don't anybody ever do this. But I was like literally sleeping with the oven on, on broil,
just to like warm the house of the pipes, what in freeze and, you know, sleeping with like
a space heater in my bedroom. And because I had to sell the house, right? Like I hadn't never made
(26:22):
a mortgage payment on it. And I had like a small window of opportunity where I could sell it before
I went to share sale. And, um, you know, now, like the beginning of last year, I think the electric
bill was like $500 because I was living in like a historic home. And I was like, but you hit,
here's the beauty. I can pay that. Right. Like, and I can do that. And I get to have heat in my
(26:46):
house and I get to have air conditioning and like, I can leave the lights on. It's, it's okay. You
know. And I guess we talked about the loss, but these are the things that are coming back. The
finance, the, what else do you think has come back to you? Gifts of recovery. So this is,
(27:07):
I can say this in my sleep because I say it every time I speak, but you know, what my sponsor tells
me is this is no longer my business where I live, where I work, where I'm with, right? And
you got one more time where I live, where I work, or who I'm with is none of my business.
Okay. And so she means by that. So, you know, basically just surrendering and asking God to
(27:27):
put you where you need to, right? So like, to the next level, right? That's like,
yeah, it's, it's, it hasn't failed me. I don't know how to say, but it's not lack of taking
responsibility. It's, you know, to go back to what I've heard people say, doing the next right thing
(27:48):
until all those things fall into place, right? Exactly. So, you know, I needed a place to live
and I knew I was going to lose my driver's license. So I work in the financial industry. So
if anybody doesn't know, almost all the banks are in Wilmington. And I needed to
(28:10):
basically move to Wilmington to be able to afford to Uber around and get around. And I went and
looked at this house and, you know, I know nothing about Wilmington at this time. And I was
like asking people, like, is this a nice area, you know, that type of thing. And I went and looked
(28:30):
at this house and like, I think I had 60 days of sobriety time. And my credit score was like 419.
It was like really bad. And, you know, basically I just wrote a letter and like asked them to
take pity on me. And they did. And they only took pity on me because their son was one of us. And
(28:54):
he was not sober at the time. You know, I would challenge the word pity. They took a chance,
right? Yeah, I wouldn't say pity. They definitely took a chance. Right. And we moved in, or I moved
in February of 2022. I sold my house 90s before I went to share a sale. And I only was able to sell
(29:21):
it because like Don showed up there, my realtor that day. And he decided not to take a commission.
So I walked away, like, you know, I didn't make any money, which I didn't deserve to make any money
because I never made a mortgage payment, but I also didn't have any money. And then after I got my
driver's license back, and you know, I got a car. I was like, I don't really need to live in the city
(29:42):
anymore. And I loved living in the city. Don't get me wrong, but not paying city tax and not
living in a row house was pretty appealing, like living in the suburbs. Plus I knew that it would
be more appealing for my ex-husband to give my children back if I had a yard and like the place
for them to play. And I went and looked at this house. And again, I recover out loud. It is not a
(30:08):
secret Delaware is a very small place. Everybody knows everybody. And I look at this house and
the guys like the landlord, he's like, I understand you're a server member of a 12 step fellowship.
And I was like, I am. And he was like the house is yours. You can have it, no credit check, no
background check. You know, when do you want to move in? And he flipped the house. And he let me
(30:34):
pick every single thing out. So we went from like a two bedroom row house to a five bedroom
single family. Yeah, it's I love it here. I never I live in Ellesmere, which is like a suburb of
Wilmington and not where I ever thought I would be. But again, God puts me where it needs me. And
(30:58):
like, I'm 17 minutes from my office, close, like my, my home group is five minutes away, you know,
I'm able to get to anything within a few minutes. And then, you know, my ex says my dick is like
it's back. And now I have them every weekend, we never went to court. There was no like fighting,
screaming. It was just like, I see what you're doing. And I trust you. And then my job, right,
(31:25):
like I came in, like I said, I was the vice president of a law firm. But I was really miserable,
like really, really miserable. And I was not, I was just not succeeding. I felt like I couldn't do
anything right. And I just knew that the end was coming to that job. And you know, out of fear,
I was like, call my sponsor and I'm like, what do I do? And she's like, you need to ask God
(31:47):
to put you wearing each. And I said, well, I can't make less money. And she was like,
oh, sweet child. She laughs at me a lot. And she's like, that will provide like you stick
close to God and perform his work, you help his kids and help her ride. And so I did and I took
(32:08):
a $12,000 a year pay cut. And I went into this job at a different company. And, you know,
they might not have been able to financially compensate me, but they gave me grace. They gave
me empathy. They allowed me to recover out loud there. You know, when I didn't have a driver's
(32:30):
license, they only asked that I come in the office one day a week. And, you know, eventually that
job got to be, I felt like I was out growing it a little bit. And then I got an offer at another
financial institution. I've been doing this for 18 years, I can't believe it. But anyway,
with a 56% pay increase, and I am, I just can't fathom. Like, I think back five years ago when I
(33:08):
got divorced, and I'm making $80,000 more a year than I was then. And it's just like,
I don't have a degree, you know, I'm very proud of the fact that I don't have a degree. I've had to
work very hard for everything I've ever had. But 18 years ago, I walked into Bank of America,
(33:30):
$12 an hour call center job. And I really thought like in my little heart of hearts,
like, I really hope someday I'm able to make $20 an hour. And, you know, through hard work and
discipline and networking, and just, you know, the gift of God that's gotten me here.
And being yourself.
(33:51):
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Tell me what's been the hardest thing you've had to do?
Give up my kids. Because like my initial thought is, no, you know, and they need, they need their
(34:13):
mom. But like, I got that I got served with the papers when I was doing my sixth step,
which is, you know, your power hour of God. And it was like peace was brought to me,
because I wanted to give them a chance. And I wanted to give myself a chance.
(34:33):
And, you know, only seeing them for two hours a week for almost two years was rough. It was
really rough. And having to just kind of like step back and be like, you're not the right person
for them right now.
And every time I've talked to you, I mean, I just remember our, like, you've always mentioned
(34:55):
your kids.
I love them so much.
You know, I'm working on this. I'm working on this.
Yeah. They're the loves of my life, you know, and I can't imagine life without them. And I'm
so grateful that I get to give them a better life than I had, you know.
(35:17):
And what do you think the role of grieving the relationship with your mom? How do you
think that impacted your alcoholism?
I had to forgive her, you know, and I do think the addiction got worse because I just
(35:38):
pushed it down. I just blamed her for everything. And I couldn't see how powerful the drugs
and alcohol were, you know.
And I also like really selfishly held on to that for a long time, like used it as an
excuse to drink.
Like.
What way?
(35:59):
Just being like, it would be the anniversary of her death or her birthday. And I'd be like,
well, might as well get drunk today. Like, and like, that's crazy. She died because we're
direct result of her addiction and here I am drinking, you know.
(36:21):
And it's really the pain.
You were feeling the pain.
Yeah, it's the pain of, you know, what could have been, you know, we never had a great
relationship because of it. I loved her very much and I still do, you know. And I'm
sure I can recognize now that how hard that must have been and also give her grace to
(36:43):
you.
You have 10 sponsors, you said.
I don't even know how many I need to sit down and calculate something like that.
And I'm sure you've had more through this project.
Yeah.
I'm sure you've helped others through that grief journey and through similar relationships
with their parents.
Definitely.
What's your, how do you help them? How do you, what do you say?
(37:08):
I just, most of the time, if I have a spouse who has a parent that's past, I have them write
an immense letter to their parents. That's what I did. I took it to my mom's grave and
I talked to her, you know, and it was one of the hardest men's I had to make.
(37:29):
A lot of people would say, well, why did you owe her a mens? She was the alcoholic. She
didn't, you know, she wasn't maybe a traditional mother to you.
Right.
Well, I was mean to her because of the way that, because of her addiction, you know,
(37:51):
I stopped talking to her for the first, for the last year of her life, you know, never
gave her an explanation. There was never a goodbye. You did this, like giving her justification.
I just essentially ghosted her. And really, you know, something that I heard somebody say about
(38:13):
they had a parent who was an alcoholic or an addict. Maybe like, did you ever ask them the
way that they grew up? And I did not know, excuse me, did not know that my grandparents
were alcoholics too, until much later in life. You know, I don't remember those things. My
(38:33):
grandmother died when I was 13, my grandfather died when I was five. It's not something I grew up with,
but apparently my grandfather was a really mean drunk. I like that.
It's emotional trauma. Right. And it is genetic, right? Like, you know, just, it doesn't always
affect everybody. But as far as I know, I'm the first person to be sober in my family, like,
(38:56):
be in recovery. And I just think how powerful that is. It's amazing. Right. And what a new
legacy you're providing, not only with your actions, but the education, helping others.
It's really beautiful, Katie. Thank you. And I'm so excited for your kids to be able to see that.
(39:22):
You know, there's hope that there's power on the other side. What do you think,
what would be your tip for someone parenting in recovery? How do everybody says, how do you
talk to your kids about that? I haven't thought about that at all, because they're so young. Right.
(39:44):
They're six now. It's weird because I wonder if they remember things,
but I also don't want to cause further harm by bringing it up. When they're old enough,
probably like 14, 15, I plan to sit down and make a formal amendments to them and explain to them,
(40:07):
you know, why they weren't with me. So I thought I had it easy out because I broke my ankle two
months before I got sober. So they thought I was getting helped for my ankle. But, you know,
within the first year of me getting sober, I was with my ex-husband's girlfriend and the kids,
(40:28):
and we were taking them somewhere. And they were like, mommy, remember the, that's the mommy juice
store you used to go to, you know, and I'm like, it doesn't actually cringe. Cause like, I'm just
like, I don't want them to know that. How would you plan to talk to them about drugs and alcohol?
I'm under no delusion that I'm going to be able to stop them from trying drugs or alcohol. Right.
(40:52):
I would hope that they don't try drugs. And I hope if they decide that they want to drink,
that they do it safely. You know, I was warned many times. But, you know, all I can do is provide
education. And if they, I hope that they can see someday, like if they are having a problem,
(41:17):
that they know that they can come to me, you know, recovery, help others and,
and going to meeting, I think that's such a legacy. For sure. It's, this is what mom valued,
right? Right. To tune them. And they see some of that now. They know I throw down and cook for
(41:40):
the homeless once a month. And they're like, why, you know, why do you do that? And I'm like, we
help people that can't help themselves, you know, and just trying to teach them kindness and like
tolerant to patients and pity always, you know, and, you know, it's like it says, you know, a more
important display of these principles and are in our respective affairs and homes, you know, and
(42:05):
something I just didn't really have, you know, yeah, I don't want that. I don't want what I had
for them. And we're, I don't want them to ever have to worry about me, you know, the way that I
worry about my mom. Any, any last things you would want to share with us before we wrap up?
(42:29):
Yeah, so I have to talk about my boyfriend because this is okay. I want to hear.
I want to hear. We are here for it. Again, it's none of your business who you're with, right. And so
some people will tell you that you have to wait a year to get into a relationship. It doesn't say
that anywhere in any literature. My sponsor did not tell me to wait a year. She just told me to
(42:52):
get through my steps, right. And then she told me, she said, I want you to make an ideals list,
right. And I'm still insane at this point. I'm like 90 days sober. And my ideals list
was six foot five drives a truck, has tattoos, red hair and like, civilization eagles, right.
(43:19):
The huge Eagles fan. And she was like, she was like, that's not what I meant, you know, and
honest, kind, hard work, those kind of things, right. Yeah. She was like spiritual ideals.
So I wrote down humble, kind, funny, smart, hardworking, sober, right. They don't need to be
(43:46):
in the rooms, but like somebody who doesn't have a problem with alcohol, essentially. And
she was like, here's the deal though, you have to be all those things on that list, except for
the sober, rich one, like you actually need to be sober. And then she said, and I want you to
say this prayer and it's, Dear God, please put a healthy man into my life on your time.
(44:06):
Right. And that's what I did. And I met him like two weeks later. And, you know, we closed down
the restaurant the first night, but like he didn't kiss me on our first day. And I was just like,
he must not really like me, right. But I was just wasn't like used to being respected,
really. And, you know, he moved in like two months later and we've been together ever since. And I
(44:31):
just like think that I want to know, is he six foot five? Did he have a red hair? He's not six foot
five. He doesn't drive a truck. He doesn't have any tattoos. He does have red hair. And he is an
eagles fan. Two out of five. Right. So bad, right. But he is humble to a fault. He is kind, smart,
(44:53):
funniest person I've ever met. Right. Hard working to the point that it drives me crazy sometimes.
And he's sober-ish, right. Like he does not. I think I can probably count on one hand how many
times he's drank since we've been together and spent almost two years. Which is just like
(45:15):
mind blowing to me. Like I always be like, you can have a drink if you want it doesn't bother me.
And he's like, I don't feel the need. And I'm like, I don't know what that feels like.
You know, I was going to cut things off like pretty quickly to our relationship because of
his work schedule. He's a restaurant manager. So it's like, not great. Yeah. Especially when I
(45:37):
work in corporate and then he's working like nights and stuff. So my sponsor was like, let me ask
you something. Is this the first time you haven't been in a co-dependent relationship? And then
she said, let me ask you something. Is it possible that his schedule allowed you to focus on your
recovery? And I was like, you're right. And you know, he's my best friend. We have a puppy together
(46:05):
now. And then he also told me, he's like, you know, we matched on like a dating app back in 2019
and you wouldn't answer my messages. And I was like, you better thank God. That was God helping
you out, buddy. And the 12 steps and these spiritual principles have helped me through
(46:31):
everything, you know, like the lows and the highs, right? And like being humble and not being
boastful and things. And also like
dealing with anything, like it's this isn't a this isn't a program to solve the drink problem.
(46:56):
It's to solve all your problems. Yeah, I'm just so grateful. And like I'll show you this. I have
this little shelf next to it. It says kind of have my coins there. No, you have a favorite recovery
quote. Is it on that shelf? Is that a favorite one? We always end with a favorite recovery quote.
(47:22):
So, yes, we will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace. That's beautiful. Yeah,
so I have another holder up because I'm getting ready to get another coin. And I just I might put
(47:42):
that holder up later that I started hysterically crying because I was just like I couldn't even get
a day. You know, and now coming up on two years, it's just crazy to me. We're celebrating with you.
Well, thank you. Your accomplishments and thank you so much for your service.
Absolutely. And speaking to our patients, being part of the alumni, it really it helps to have,
(48:09):
to see alums at all stages in the journey, right? Like sometimes when looking at somebody's got two
years seems so unattainable. And so having somebody who's just in the beginning stages,
it's important to see that. But then it's also important to see people coming back into life
and putting all the pieces back together and and what what that looks like too. So thank you so much.
(48:35):
Absolutely. It's an honor and a privilege, honestly. And I'm so grateful for our Sia and for all of you.
And especially Vince. It's a privilege to do what we do. Yeah. And gentlemen, thank you so much for
listening today. If you are someone you know needs help, please reach out reach out to one of our
(48:57):
alumni coordinators. They can help our alums or anyone you know, who who just needs to talk to
somebody and and talk about getting help. Call 1-833-RCA-ALUM or go on to our website, rcaalumni.com.
(49:17):
We have over 130 support group meetings a month that you can be a part of. You don't have to be
affiliated with RCA to join one of those support groups. And we would love to see you and help
you learn more about recovery. Thank you. Have a great day.
(49:40):
Thank you for listening to the Strength and Recovery podcast. If you enjoyed this episode,
please tap the subscribe button and leave us a review. We love hearing from our listeners
and hope to reach more of you out there as we continue to share these incredible stories of
recovery. The RCA alumni team aims to provide a safe supportive environment for those in the
(50:03):
recovery community, regardless of their affiliation with RCA. We host a full calendar of virtual and
in-person meetings seven days a week, 365 days a year, as well as free sober events every month.
To learn more about what we do, find us at rcaalumni.com. Remember, if you or a loved one is
(50:27):
struggling with addiction, pick up the phone and dial 1-833-RCA-ALUM. Help is available 24-7.
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