October 24, 2025 • 23 mins
Promotions rarely hinge on perfect reports—they hinge on proof that you grow people, steer outcomes, and communicate when it counts. John and greg open with a simple shift that changes everything: start with WIIFM—the listener’s “what’s in it for me”—and build leadership from the audience’s needs, not your talking points. From there, we map the real hiring filters (degrees, certifications, years of experience, capital projects, budget responsibility), how applicant tracking systems screen you in or out, and why “potential” without preparation keeps you parked.
We get practical about the next barrier: succession. If no one on your team can take your seat, your promotion odds drop. We talk through building bench strength with deliberate delegation, sponsoring certifications, and scheduling short 1:1s to learn each person’s goals—whether they want management or mastery. You’ll hear why honoring skilled tradespeople who choose craft over climbing is a leadership advantage, and how daily presence on the floor beats desk‑bound perfection every time.
Communication becomes the force multiplier. Instead of claiming you’re a “strong communicator,” we show how to prove it: present across departments, speak to executives and peers, and take on stretch topics with real risk attached. You’ll hear stories—from a supervisor who turned stage fear into system‑wide trust, to a lead electrician whose insight under pressure earned the room and elevated the whole department—that demonstrate how sharing the mic builds credibility in both directions. The through‑line is self‑ownership: you are responsible for your career, for closing your gaps, and for teaching your team how to close theirs. If you’re ready to shift from potential to preparation—and from solo performer to builder of builders—this one’s for you.
If the episode helped, follow the show, share it with a colleague who’s ready for the next step, and leave a quick review so others can find it. Then tell us: who are you developing this month?
Presented by John Wandolowski and Greg Powell
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:13):
Well, hello, and welcome to our podcast, Success,
Secrets, and Stories.
I'm your host, John Wondolowski,and I'm here with my co-host and
friend, Greg Powell.
Greg?
Hey everybody.
And when we put together thispodcast, we wanted to put out a
helping hand and help that nextgeneration and help answer the
(00:35):
question of what does it mean tobe a leader?
Today we want to talk about asubject that I think supports
that concept.
So, in the world of leadershipand what you're trying to do to
prepare yourself, but mostlywhat is it that your team is
(00:57):
looking for in terms ofleadership?
What are what are the thingsthat they as an audience want to
hear?
Say if you step back for asecond and you want to try to
talk to them as a team, a teammeeting, and and the things that
would be interesting to them.
Well, Greg and I are going todive into a conversation that I
(01:20):
think I've I've had it in thebook that I've written.
But it really is the key.
You have to be a good listenerto be a good leader.
And really you have to take upin the position of what's in it
for me.
So let me let me try to addressthat.
You know, Greg, oftenpresentations start with someone
(01:41):
speaking eloquently about topicsthat the audience should know.
But I want to talk about theflip side of that, the
conversation that is designedfor listening right now, for the
pitch or the product or theclaim or the revolutionary
method that really meanssomething when you look at it
(02:01):
from the audience's point ofview.
And that really, I think, isimportant when you're talking
about leadership in terms ofpersonal and practical and
relevant.
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
You know, John, that's refreshing.
So many leadership talks feelkind of disconnected, right?
What made you want to take thisapproach?
SPEAKER_01 (02:21):
You know, I was challenged with the concept of
pretend that you're in the seatsand tell me what's in it for me.
And I've heard all kinds ofleadership theories, and
honestly, I've thought, whoreally cares?
That's why I wanted to talkabout how a presentation should
really come across to realpeople about real growth, about
real advancement.
(02:42):
One of the most importantquestions I ever asked my boss
is what will it take for me toget promoted?
Now, I'll admit, I didn't phraseit quite that well.
It was a little rougher and Ispent a lot of time, but at the
end of the line, that that'swhat I was trying to ask the
question of what's in it for me.
I need more money to do thisjob.
(03:04):
If if there's a promotionalpath, so be it.
Let me let me know what it is.
Looking back, it wasn't thewisest approach in terms of
career growth.
But I have to say, I know otherswho have done the same thing.
SPEAKER_00 (03:20):
No, John, I'm going to give you a lot of credit.
That's a bold admission.
You know, so what's the betterquestion we should be asking?
SPEAKER_01 (03:27):
Well, instead of like asking for more money, uh
you should be asking about howdo I improve my career
decisions?
Uh executive management isn'treally interested in vague
ambition.
What they want to see isreadiness, initiative, results.
That's the elements that they'relooking for in terms of being
(03:48):
promotable.
Now, here's a question foreveryone who's listening.
Are you truly prepared foradvancement?
Or are you waiting for someoneto hand it to you?
I know what you're thinking.
What does he mean by that?
SPEAKER_00 (04:08):
Well, let me break it down.
So, John, let's say someonewants to move into a management
role.
What should they be expecting?
SPEAKER_01 (04:17):
Yeah, exactly.
That's what I was talking about.
That that key to understand whatgoes into hiring.
And without ever seeing thedocument for the organization, I
(04:40):
know the majority of what youand I would see from an HR
perspective.
You're looking for a four-yeardegree.
You're looking for at least fouryears of leadership experience.
In the healthcare industry,you're looking for things like
ASHI Certification forHealthcare or a CHFM, the
ever-famous acronym city of whatyou have as activities within
(05:03):
that organization or that field.
You want a proven experience interms of managing a capital
project.
You're looking for proficiencyin Excel and Word and Word
PowerPoint and all those kind ofmanagement software things that
you would normally expect.
And you also expect someone tohave at least a million dollars
(05:26):
worth of responsibility, whetherthat be capital planning or
budget or sales, whateverthey're looking for, they're
looking for a certain set ofvolume in order to show that you
have the capacity of doing thework.
Greg, does this ring true?
Have you seen those basicsalmost with every job?
SPEAKER_00 (05:46):
It's a standard, John.
It's it's just a way to try tohone in on folks that might be
remotely qualified before theinterview process.
So these are minimumrequirements.
SPEAKER_01 (05:57):
And I think there's software now, you know, they
call them watchdogs, that if youdon't have those basic six
elements of somehow proving thatyou're a real candidate, it's
going to flush you before youeven see a human.
SPEAKER_00 (06:11):
You'll be screened out, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (06:12):
So unless you meet those criteria, you're probably
never going to be ready foradvancement.
Now, there are there areexceptions, sure, but here's the
catch.
A candidate is expected to meetthose missing requirements
within two years of employment.
That's almost like a standardline of anybody that's missing
(06:33):
these elements.
Okay, we'll probably stretch alittle bit, but you got to pony
up and get that work done withina period of time.
Some organizations are moreflexible than others, and you
can have five or six of thebasics in order to have a chance
for advancement, but being hiredby someone outside of your
(06:55):
organization are slim if youdon't have those basic keys.
SPEAKER_00 (06:59):
So, John, I think what you're saying is really
important that it's not justabout potential, it's also about
preparation.
SPEAKER_01 (07:06):
Yeah, exactly.
And let me be clear I'm notasking anyone to raise their
hand or confess that they have alack of these skill sets, but it
really is talking about whetheryou expect advancement if you
don't have those elements readyto go.
Everyone has those skills atsome level, but you have to have
(07:27):
the documentation.
And some organizations, you'vegained that because of your
experience, but it doesn'ttranslate to even executive
leadership.
Your boss might think that youhave the skills, but they have
to actually twist arms to gopast those requirements.
So if we don't have thoseskills, what should you do?
What what are your realopportunities at this point?
(07:51):
So let me be clear.
Anyone who doesn't have thoseskills, I don't I don't need to
talk about whether you know youneed to have those things to be
advanced, but you might be ableto do that on site and they'll
they'll do something for yourorganization and accommodate
you.
But if you don't have thoseskills, you're not gonna be able
to go to another organization.
(08:11):
And that's just being prepared.
That's the essence of it.
But let's say that you meet allthe requirements.
So what's the next challenge?
How many people in your teamright now can take your place?
Yeah.
If you think you're gonna getpromoted, and anyone that's on
(08:32):
in the organization hasn't theskill set or the experience to
be able to take your place, oddsare they're gonna look past you.
That's just the reality of it.
What have you done to try todelegate projects to your team,
to help them to getcertifications that they need,
possibly help them to go back toschool if they have the interest
(08:53):
in being a leader?
SPEAKER_00 (08:55):
That really is how you build a resume.
No, John, that's a tough one.
Folks get so caught up in theirday-to-day jobs, and the last
thing they think about issuccession.
In fact, sometimes they don'tthink about it until it's too
late.
They got a job opportunity, butthere's no one that's ready to
take their place.
SPEAKER_01 (09:12):
Exactly.
And leadership means leadingothers.
It's not just representing yourcompany's priorities and
possibly staff questions orchallenges that you have in the
business environment.
What you need to do is find outwhat your team's aspirations
(09:32):
are, what are their priorities.
I'd like to challenge you withinthe next 30 days, sit down with
each member of your team.
Yeah.
And ask them what are theirdreams?
What is their next steps?
How can I help you get there?
The whole thing about being aleader is being able to know
(09:54):
what it is that motivates them.
Not just you motivating them todo the work environment, what
motivates them.
Now, I get it.
Not everyone wants to bepromoted that you're going to be
talking to.
And not everyone has aspirationsto take your job and be a
leader.
And that's okay.
But you need to know that thereare people who love the work for
(10:15):
what it is.
My father was a tradesman and hetook pride in his craft.
And there's nothing wrong forthose choosing to stay in the
trade and stay in the tradelevel.
But you, as a leader, have aresponsibility to support those
individuals just as much as yousee someone that's capable of
leadership.
(10:36):
You have to develop them to bethe best trade persons that they
can be.
What you're really missing isfinding that key leadership
principle of interest in being aleader.
SPEAKER_00 (10:51):
So, how do leaders support those who aren't
interested in seekingadvancement?
SPEAKER_01 (10:56):
Yeah, okay.
Probably the most importantpoint is create a positive
environment, regardless of theircareer goals.
Think of the men and women inyour department, how they take
true pride in the things thatthey have done, how they've
helped the organization, and howthey're considered highly
qualified in their technicaltrade.
(11:18):
It's noble work.
Ask yourself, have I doneeverything I can to make their
jobs better?
Not just challenging them interms of leadership, it's
helping them to be the besttradesperson to find a salary to
support their families.
Ask any tradesperson, do youhave the training, the tools,
(11:44):
the supplies to do a good job?
The easiest way to understandthis is to walk the department
daily.
You cannot lead from your desk.
Yes, I know paperwork isoverwhelming and it's a constant
drag on what it is that'shappening in your life, but
you're leading people now.
(12:05):
And walking the department isone of those keys in order to
try to connect.
But no one gets promoted for aperfect payroll efficiency or
paperwork that is so wellwritten that others are going to
be talking about it on end abouthow the budget was correctly
(12:26):
identified.
It just doesn't happen.
So let me give you a hint thatno one is going to be promoted
that does a perfect payrollefficiency report.
No one really cares about yourmonthly report in terms of being
the most outstanding documentever written by someone in your
position.
(12:46):
What's the most importantelement is how you actually lead
your team and how thatorganization works as a
collective unit.
SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
That's a powerful reminder, John.
Leadership is about beingvisible and engaged, not one or
the other.
SPEAKER_01 (13:04):
Yes.
And budgeting and planning,things like construction
experience, technicalexperience, they all are part of
the hiring process.
But they are just elements ofthe hiring process, not
indicators of leadership.
Now there's disqualifiers, andsure, that's that's part of what
(13:28):
you need to talk about, but noone wants to teach accounting to
someone who already knows it.
And if you have never led or hadworked interactively with a
construction project or withother leaders, it's going to
show in terms of your results.
(13:49):
You have to be in the placewhere projects can be
demonstrated.
SPEAKER_00 (13:54):
And you can show that in terms of how you have
done something in your resumethat has actually shown that you
have worked on projects.
So, John, what I hear you sayingis leadership is about
involvement, not proximity.
SPEAKER_01 (14:09):
Really, a lot of people, when they say that they
have experience in projects, isbecause they were in the same
room while they had a meetingabout it.
It's not leading the team, it'sbeing part of the team.
Well, you have to find a way totry to describe that in a resume
so that you get credit foractually leading that concept or
(14:29):
you altered the concept that wasgoing in the wrong direction,
something other than saying thatyou were a participant.
So, Greg, do you know what thesecret is of getting someone's
attention during theinterviewing process?
No, John, what is that secret?
Tell the hiring managers thatyou have improved communication
(14:51):
between your staff, acrossdepartments, or with leadership.
It's not just saying that you'rea good communicator, it's
showing it.
I've been speaking for like 15,20 minutes now.
Are you still with me?
Have you been listening to theinflection of my voice, to this
to the concepts that we've beenexchanging between the two of
(15:14):
us?
SPEAKER_00 (15:15):
That's the element of being self-aware.
So, John, there's kind of threethings going on here.
It's not just what you say, it'snot just how you say it, but
it's also how it's beingreceived.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (15:31):
If you claim to be a strong communicator, prove it.
Give a presentation, joinorganizations that give
presentations, share yourinsights, put something on your
resume that shows that you havecommunicated with purpose and
impact.
So let me give you a realexample.
(15:51):
I asked a supervisor to take ona subject called water
management responsibilities fora hospital system.
He was tasked with collectingthe data, improving overall
safety, and presenting hisfindings to hospital leadership.
Eventually, he gave that samepresentation to an engineering
(16:14):
group that I belonged to calledHesney.
And he was able to give thatpresentation to his peers.
When I first gave him theassignment, he didn't hide his
discomfort.
He said, I'm not comfortable intalking to people in public.
And he worried about the legalimplications of water safety and
what that meant if he stood upand took responsibility.
(16:38):
That's when I gave him achallenge.
If you want my job, as you havetold me in past career reviews,
then prove it.
Take the responsibility and showyour peers that you understand
this subject better than most.
John, that's a very powerfulmoment.
How did he respond?
(16:58):
He stepped up, yeah.
And he delivered an outstandingpresentation to the executive
team.
He did an outstandingpresentation to the peers.
He showed progress in terms ofthat the team's project of water
safety.
He really did improve the safetyof water, but mostly he gave
(17:19):
leadership the impression thathe understood the subject well.
I ask, have you ever been in aposition where you could give an
assignment of your team that youwould normally do for them to
experience that same feeling,that same risk, that same
reward?
(17:41):
As a leader, you probably knowhow to communicate, but you have
to teach that skill at the sametime.
So I'll be honest, my firstexecutive presentation was a
disaster.
And I asked a respected peer ifI needed public speaking
classes.
(18:02):
I was in my early 30s, I had abachelor's degree in science,
and I never gave a meaningfulpresentation before then.
SPEAKER_00 (18:10):
So, John, it's a very humbling story.
What did you learn from thatexperience?
SPEAKER_01 (18:17):
That leadership requires preparation.
And you have to be prepared foradvancement, and so does your
staff.
But here's the bottom line.
As a leader, I'm not responsiblefor your career.
You are responsible for yourcareer.
Your boss is not going to do itfor you.
(18:38):
It's rare, it sometimes happens,but you have to own it.
That's the key.
So if you want to know who'sgoing to help you with your
career, the wonderful line I wasgiven is look in the mirror,
because that's the only personwho's looking back at you that's
interested in your career at theend of the day.
And the only one that can reallydo an effective change.
(19:02):
Okay, let's shift gears for asecond.
Communication isn't just aboutpublic speaking and team
meetings.
As a leader, you have toinfluence that goes beyond your
department into the chain ofcommand.
So can you give us an example ofthat, John?
Yeah.
Again, from my hospitalexperience, they have this thing
(19:23):
called incident command.
And it's situational analysiswhere you're always working on
what to do in case there's anemergency.
And when you actually have anevent, you have to be able to
think out of the box and besmart about your communications.
So I had a Lee Foreman who wasreally good at his field and
(19:46):
very knowledgeable and almostlike a secret in the
organization.
And I asked him during a majorevent that we had to shut down
the Transformer and shut downthe hospital for a period of
time.
Now, normally I would give theupdate to the incident command
team, but I wanted to changethis process to invite the lead
electrician to speak because hediscovered it before it actually
(20:10):
failed and saved the hospitalhours of potential problems.
It was his insight, it was hisprofessionalism that found the
issue before it happened.
He developed an action plan andhad a timeline ready to go.
Now, I could have taken thatsame kind of pitch and impressed
the people in the room, but myjob was to try to create a team
(20:34):
and really show the strength ofthat organization that I had.
He was very professional.
He didn't want to be asupervisor, but he gained such
support as being a tradespersonthat I was given praise about
how they never knew that he wasthere.
And here in this high-pressureenvironment, he excelled and he
(20:56):
did a fantastic job.
SPEAKER_00 (20:58):
But he was a good communicator that didn't know
it.
So, John, that must have been avery proud moment for him, for
the department, and for you.
It was.
SPEAKER_01 (21:11):
It was.
And those opportunities happenall the time.
But all too often the directorsor the senior management becomes
the spokesperson for thedepartment and they hide the
really talented people that arebehind the scenes.
And that's a waste.
It hinders careers and itstifles growth.
(21:33):
So where is all of this going?
It's about self-awareness.
If you can't develop someone onyour staff, odds are you're not
promotable.
Period.
That's the essence ofleadership.
It isn't about your performance,it's about your ability to
develop and grow others.
SPEAKER_00 (21:55):
John, that's a very sobering and very tough truth.
But it's necessary.
It is.
SPEAKER_01 (22:03):
And and really at this point, I think for the sake
of clarity, that kind of wrapsup our first discussion about
leadership advancement series.
We have another episode.
So stay tuned.
I think you'll enjoy the secondhalf.
And we get into a little bitmore of the detail of how to
(22:24):
actually take that leadershipadvancement to the next step.
So if you like what you'veheard, I've written a book
called Building Your LeadershipToolbox, and we talk about tools
like this.
And it's available on Amazon andBarnes and Nouvel and other
sites.
The podcast is what you've beenlistening to.
(22:45):
Thank you so much.
It's also available on Apple,Google, and Spotify.
A lot of what we talk about isfrom Dr.
Durst in his MBR program.
If you'd like to know more aboutDr.
Durst, you can find out onSuccessGrowthAcademy.com.
And if you'd like to contact us,please send me a line.
It's Wando75 periodjw atgmail.com.
(23:09):
And the music has been broughtto you by my grandson.
So we want to hear from you.
Drop me a line.
Tell me what's going on, whatyou like, and what you would
like to hear about.
It has always helped us tocreate content.
Thanks, Greg.
This was fun.
Thanks, John.
SPEAKER_00 (23:27):
As always.
Next time.
SPEAKER_01 (23:29):
Yeah.
Well, hello, and welcome to our podcast, Success,
Secrets, and Stories.
I'm your host, John Wondolowski,and I'm here with my co-host and
friend, Greg Powell.
Greg?
Hey everybody.
And when we put together thispodcast, we wanted to put out a
helping hand and help that nextgeneration and help answer the
(00:35):
question of what does it mean tobe a leader?
Today we want to talk about asubject that I think supports
that concept.
So, in the world of leadershipand what you're trying to do to
prepare yourself, but mostlywhat is it that your team is
(00:57):
looking for in terms ofleadership?
What are what are the thingsthat they as an audience want to
hear?
Say if you step back for asecond and you want to try to
talk to them as a team, a teammeeting, and and the things that
would be interesting to them.
Well, Greg and I are going todive into a conversation that I
(01:20):
think I've I've had it in thebook that I've written.
But it really is the key.
You have to be a good listenerto be a good leader.
And really you have to take upin the position of what's in it
for me.
So let me let me try to addressthat.
You know, Greg, oftenpresentations start with someone
(01:41):
speaking eloquently about topicsthat the audience should know.
But I want to talk about theflip side of that, the
conversation that is designedfor listening right now, for the
pitch or the product or theclaim or the revolutionary
method that really meanssomething when you look at it
(02:01):
from the audience's point ofview.
And that really, I think, isimportant when you're talking
about leadership in terms ofpersonal and practical and
relevant.
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
You know, John, that's refreshing.
So many leadership talks feelkind of disconnected, right?
What made you want to take thisapproach?
SPEAKER_01 (02:21):
You know, I was challenged with the concept of
pretend that you're in the seatsand tell me what's in it for me.
And I've heard all kinds ofleadership theories, and
honestly, I've thought, whoreally cares?
That's why I wanted to talkabout how a presentation should
really come across to realpeople about real growth, about
real advancement.
(02:42):
One of the most importantquestions I ever asked my boss
is what will it take for me toget promoted?
Now, I'll admit, I didn't phraseit quite that well.
It was a little rougher and Ispent a lot of time, but at the
end of the line, that that'swhat I was trying to ask the
question of what's in it for me.
I need more money to do thisjob.
(03:04):
If if there's a promotionalpath, so be it.
Let me let me know what it is.
Looking back, it wasn't thewisest approach in terms of
career growth.
But I have to say, I know otherswho have done the same thing.
SPEAKER_00 (03:20):
No, John, I'm going to give you a lot of credit.
That's a bold admission.
You know, so what's the betterquestion we should be asking?
SPEAKER_01 (03:27):
Well, instead of like asking for more money, uh
you should be asking about howdo I improve my career
decisions?
Uh executive management isn'treally interested in vague
ambition.
What they want to see isreadiness, initiative, results.
That's the elements that they'relooking for in terms of being
(03:48):
promotable.
Now, here's a question foreveryone who's listening.
Are you truly prepared foradvancement?
Or are you waiting for someoneto hand it to you?
I know what you're thinking.
What does he mean by that?
SPEAKER_00 (04:08):
Well, let me break it down.
So, John, let's say someonewants to move into a management
role.
What should they be expecting?
SPEAKER_01 (04:17):
Yeah, exactly.
That's what I was talking about.
That that key to understand whatgoes into hiring.
And without ever seeing thedocument for the organization, I
(04:40):
know the majority of what youand I would see from an HR
perspective.
You're looking for a four-yeardegree.
You're looking for at least fouryears of leadership experience.
In the healthcare industry,you're looking for things like
ASHI Certification forHealthcare or a CHFM, the
ever-famous acronym city of whatyou have as activities within
(05:03):
that organization or that field.
You want a proven experience interms of managing a capital
project.
You're looking for proficiencyin Excel and Word and Word
PowerPoint and all those kind ofmanagement software things that
you would normally expect.
And you also expect someone tohave at least a million dollars
(05:26):
worth of responsibility, whetherthat be capital planning or
budget or sales, whateverthey're looking for, they're
looking for a certain set ofvolume in order to show that you
have the capacity of doing thework.
Greg, does this ring true?
Have you seen those basicsalmost with every job?
SPEAKER_00 (05:46):
It's a standard, John.
It's it's just a way to try tohone in on folks that might be
remotely qualified before theinterview process.
So these are minimumrequirements.
SPEAKER_01 (05:57):
And I think there's software now, you know, they
call them watchdogs, that if youdon't have those basic six
elements of somehow proving thatyou're a real candidate, it's
going to flush you before youeven see a human.
SPEAKER_00 (06:11):
You'll be screened out, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (06:12):
So unless you meet those criteria, you're probably
never going to be ready foradvancement.
Now, there are there areexceptions, sure, but here's the
catch.
A candidate is expected to meetthose missing requirements
within two years of employment.
That's almost like a standardline of anybody that's missing
(06:33):
these elements.
Okay, we'll probably stretch alittle bit, but you got to pony
up and get that work done withina period of time.
Some organizations are moreflexible than others, and you
can have five or six of thebasics in order to have a chance
for advancement, but being hiredby someone outside of your
(06:55):
organization are slim if youdon't have those basic keys.
SPEAKER_00 (06:59):
So, John, I think what you're saying is really
important that it's not justabout potential, it's also about
preparation.
SPEAKER_01 (07:06):
Yeah, exactly.
And let me be clear I'm notasking anyone to raise their
hand or confess that they have alack of these skill sets, but it
really is talking about whetheryou expect advancement if you
don't have those elements readyto go.
Everyone has those skills atsome level, but you have to have
(07:27):
the documentation.
And some organizations, you'vegained that because of your
experience, but it doesn'ttranslate to even executive
leadership.
Your boss might think that youhave the skills, but they have
to actually twist arms to gopast those requirements.
So if we don't have thoseskills, what should you do?
What what are your realopportunities at this point?
(07:51):
So let me be clear.
Anyone who doesn't have thoseskills, I don't I don't need to
talk about whether you know youneed to have those things to be
advanced, but you might be ableto do that on site and they'll
they'll do something for yourorganization and accommodate
you.
But if you don't have thoseskills, you're not gonna be able
to go to another organization.
(08:11):
And that's just being prepared.
That's the essence of it.
But let's say that you meet allthe requirements.
So what's the next challenge?
How many people in your teamright now can take your place?
Yeah.
If you think you're gonna getpromoted, and anyone that's on
(08:32):
in the organization hasn't theskill set or the experience to
be able to take your place, oddsare they're gonna look past you.
That's just the reality of it.
What have you done to try todelegate projects to your team,
to help them to getcertifications that they need,
possibly help them to go back toschool if they have the interest
(08:53):
in being a leader?
SPEAKER_00 (08:55):
That really is how you build a resume.
No, John, that's a tough one.
Folks get so caught up in theirday-to-day jobs, and the last
thing they think about issuccession.
In fact, sometimes they don'tthink about it until it's too
late.
They got a job opportunity, butthere's no one that's ready to
take their place.
SPEAKER_01 (09:12):
Exactly.
And leadership means leadingothers.
It's not just representing yourcompany's priorities and
possibly staff questions orchallenges that you have in the
business environment.
What you need to do is find outwhat your team's aspirations
(09:32):
are, what are their priorities.
I'd like to challenge you withinthe next 30 days, sit down with
each member of your team.
Yeah.
And ask them what are theirdreams?
What is their next steps?
How can I help you get there?
The whole thing about being aleader is being able to know
(09:54):
what it is that motivates them.
Not just you motivating them todo the work environment, what
motivates them.
Now, I get it.
Not everyone wants to bepromoted that you're going to be
talking to.
And not everyone has aspirationsto take your job and be a
leader.
And that's okay.
But you need to know that thereare people who love the work for
(10:15):
what it is.
My father was a tradesman and hetook pride in his craft.
And there's nothing wrong forthose choosing to stay in the
trade and stay in the tradelevel.
But you, as a leader, have aresponsibility to support those
individuals just as much as yousee someone that's capable of
leadership.
(10:36):
You have to develop them to bethe best trade persons that they
can be.
What you're really missing isfinding that key leadership
principle of interest in being aleader.
SPEAKER_00 (10:51):
So, how do leaders support those who aren't
interested in seekingadvancement?
SPEAKER_01 (10:56):
Yeah, okay.
Probably the most importantpoint is create a positive
environment, regardless of theircareer goals.
Think of the men and women inyour department, how they take
true pride in the things thatthey have done, how they've
helped the organization, and howthey're considered highly
qualified in their technicaltrade.
(11:18):
It's noble work.
Ask yourself, have I doneeverything I can to make their
jobs better?
Not just challenging them interms of leadership, it's
helping them to be the besttradesperson to find a salary to
support their families.
Ask any tradesperson, do youhave the training, the tools,
(11:44):
the supplies to do a good job?
The easiest way to understandthis is to walk the department
daily.
You cannot lead from your desk.
Yes, I know paperwork isoverwhelming and it's a constant
drag on what it is that'shappening in your life, but
you're leading people now.
(12:05):
And walking the department isone of those keys in order to
try to connect.
But no one gets promoted for aperfect payroll efficiency or
paperwork that is so wellwritten that others are going to
be talking about it on end abouthow the budget was correctly
(12:26):
identified.
It just doesn't happen.
So let me give you a hint thatno one is going to be promoted
that does a perfect payrollefficiency report.
No one really cares about yourmonthly report in terms of being
the most outstanding documentever written by someone in your
position.
(12:46):
What's the most importantelement is how you actually lead
your team and how thatorganization works as a
collective unit.
SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
That's a powerful reminder, John.
Leadership is about beingvisible and engaged, not one or
the other.
SPEAKER_01 (13:04):
Yes.
And budgeting and planning,things like construction
experience, technicalexperience, they all are part of
the hiring process.
But they are just elements ofthe hiring process, not
indicators of leadership.
Now there's disqualifiers, andsure, that's that's part of what
(13:28):
you need to talk about, but noone wants to teach accounting to
someone who already knows it.
And if you have never led or hadworked interactively with a
construction project or withother leaders, it's going to
show in terms of your results.
(13:49):
You have to be in the placewhere projects can be
demonstrated.
SPEAKER_00 (13:54):
And you can show that in terms of how you have
done something in your resumethat has actually shown that you
have worked on projects.
So, John, what I hear you sayingis leadership is about
involvement, not proximity.
SPEAKER_01 (14:09):
Really, a lot of people, when they say that they
have experience in projects, isbecause they were in the same
room while they had a meetingabout it.
It's not leading the team, it'sbeing part of the team.
Well, you have to find a way totry to describe that in a resume
so that you get credit foractually leading that concept or
(14:29):
you altered the concept that wasgoing in the wrong direction,
something other than saying thatyou were a participant.
So, Greg, do you know what thesecret is of getting someone's
attention during theinterviewing process?
No, John, what is that secret?
Tell the hiring managers thatyou have improved communication
(14:51):
between your staff, acrossdepartments, or with leadership.
It's not just saying that you'rea good communicator, it's
showing it.
I've been speaking for like 15,20 minutes now.
Are you still with me?
Have you been listening to theinflection of my voice, to this
to the concepts that we've beenexchanging between the two of
(15:14):
us?
SPEAKER_00 (15:15):
That's the element of being self-aware.
So, John, there's kind of threethings going on here.
It's not just what you say, it'snot just how you say it, but
it's also how it's beingreceived.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (15:31):
If you claim to be a strong communicator, prove it.
Give a presentation, joinorganizations that give
presentations, share yourinsights, put something on your
resume that shows that you havecommunicated with purpose and
impact.
So let me give you a realexample.
(15:51):
I asked a supervisor to take ona subject called water
management responsibilities fora hospital system.
He was tasked with collectingthe data, improving overall
safety, and presenting hisfindings to hospital leadership.
Eventually, he gave that samepresentation to an engineering
(16:14):
group that I belonged to calledHesney.
And he was able to give thatpresentation to his peers.
When I first gave him theassignment, he didn't hide his
discomfort.
He said, I'm not comfortable intalking to people in public.
And he worried about the legalimplications of water safety and
what that meant if he stood upand took responsibility.
(16:38):
That's when I gave him achallenge.
If you want my job, as you havetold me in past career reviews,
then prove it.
Take the responsibility and showyour peers that you understand
this subject better than most.
John, that's a very powerfulmoment.
How did he respond?
(16:58):
He stepped up, yeah.
And he delivered an outstandingpresentation to the executive
team.
He did an outstandingpresentation to the peers.
He showed progress in terms ofthat the team's project of water
safety.
He really did improve the safetyof water, but mostly he gave
(17:19):
leadership the impression thathe understood the subject well.
I ask, have you ever been in aposition where you could give an
assignment of your team that youwould normally do for them to
experience that same feeling,that same risk, that same
reward?
(17:41):
As a leader, you probably knowhow to communicate, but you have
to teach that skill at the sametime.
So I'll be honest, my firstexecutive presentation was a
disaster.
And I asked a respected peer ifI needed public speaking
classes.
(18:02):
I was in my early 30s, I had abachelor's degree in science,
and I never gave a meaningfulpresentation before then.
SPEAKER_00 (18:10):
So, John, it's a very humbling story.
What did you learn from thatexperience?
SPEAKER_01 (18:17):
That leadership requires preparation.
And you have to be prepared foradvancement, and so does your
staff.
But here's the bottom line.
As a leader, I'm not responsiblefor your career.
You are responsible for yourcareer.
Your boss is not going to do itfor you.
(18:38):
It's rare, it sometimes happens,but you have to own it.
That's the key.
So if you want to know who'sgoing to help you with your
career, the wonderful line I wasgiven is look in the mirror,
because that's the only personwho's looking back at you that's
interested in your career at theend of the day.
And the only one that can reallydo an effective change.
(19:02):
Okay, let's shift gears for asecond.
Communication isn't just aboutpublic speaking and team
meetings.
As a leader, you have toinfluence that goes beyond your
department into the chain ofcommand.
So can you give us an example ofthat, John?
Yeah.
Again, from my hospitalexperience, they have this thing
(19:23):
called incident command.
And it's situational analysiswhere you're always working on
what to do in case there's anemergency.
And when you actually have anevent, you have to be able to
think out of the box and besmart about your communications.
So I had a Lee Foreman who wasreally good at his field and
(19:46):
very knowledgeable and almostlike a secret in the
organization.
And I asked him during a majorevent that we had to shut down
the Transformer and shut downthe hospital for a period of
time.
Now, normally I would give theupdate to the incident command
team, but I wanted to changethis process to invite the lead
electrician to speak because hediscovered it before it actually
(20:10):
failed and saved the hospitalhours of potential problems.
It was his insight, it was hisprofessionalism that found the
issue before it happened.
He developed an action plan andhad a timeline ready to go.
Now, I could have taken thatsame kind of pitch and impressed
the people in the room, but myjob was to try to create a team
(20:34):
and really show the strength ofthat organization that I had.
He was very professional.
He didn't want to be asupervisor, but he gained such
support as being a tradespersonthat I was given praise about
how they never knew that he wasthere.
And here in this high-pressureenvironment, he excelled and he
(20:56):
did a fantastic job.
SPEAKER_00 (20:58):
But he was a good communicator that didn't know
it.
So, John, that must have been avery proud moment for him, for
the department, and for you.
It was.
SPEAKER_01 (21:11):
It was.
And those opportunities happenall the time.
But all too often the directorsor the senior management becomes
the spokesperson for thedepartment and they hide the
really talented people that arebehind the scenes.
And that's a waste.
It hinders careers and itstifles growth.
(21:33):
So where is all of this going?
It's about self-awareness.
If you can't develop someone onyour staff, odds are you're not
promotable.
Period.
That's the essence ofleadership.
It isn't about your performance,it's about your ability to
develop and grow others.
SPEAKER_00 (21:55):
John, that's a very sobering and very tough truth.
But it's necessary.
It is.
SPEAKER_01 (22:03):
And and really at this point, I think for the sake
of clarity, that kind of wrapsup our first discussion about
leadership advancement series.
We have another episode.
So stay tuned.
I think you'll enjoy the secondhalf.
And we get into a little bitmore of the detail of how to
(22:24):
actually take that leadershipadvancement to the next step.
So if you like what you'veheard, I've written a book
called Building Your LeadershipToolbox, and we talk about tools
like this.
And it's available on Amazon andBarnes and Nouvel and other
sites.
The podcast is what you've beenlistening to.
(22:45):
Thank you so much.
It's also available on Apple,Google, and Spotify.
A lot of what we talk about isfrom Dr.
Durst in his MBR program.
If you'd like to know more aboutDr.
Durst, you can find out onSuccessGrowthAcademy.com.
And if you'd like to contact us,please send me a line.
It's Wando75 periodjw atgmail.com.
(23:09):
And the music has been broughtto you by my grandson.
So we want to hear from you.
Drop me a line.
Tell me what's going on, whatyou like, and what you would
like to hear about.
It has always helped us tocreate content.
Thanks, Greg.
This was fun.
Thanks, John.
SPEAKER_00 (23:27):
As always.
Next time.
SPEAKER_01 (23:29):
Yeah.
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