S6E8 Brian Levenson: Preparation and Performance Mindset difference, Mentors in unlikely places, and Loneliness...

Brian Levenson is an executive and mental performance coach. He has worked with CEO's, professional athletes, professional sports teams in the NBA, NHL, MLS,  the Department of Homeland Security and more.

He is the podcast of Intentional Performers and author of Shift your Mind which is all about the peak performance mindset.

In the conversation we cover...
1. The difference between the preparation and performance mindset (humility and arrogance, fear and fearlessness, perfectionism and flow, etc)
2. Success as a parent and husband
3. Loneliness and how it affects us all

Check out the incredible book Shift your Mind along with his amazing podcast Intentional Performers along with a lot of other resources at Strong Skills

You can also check him out at Linkedin or Twitter at Brian Levenson

Episode Transcript

Brian Levenson (00:00):
When I would talk to my clients and we'd say,

(00:01):
"What do you really need whenyou're performing?" They would
say,"It's actually beyondconfidence.
I need this unshakeable beliefin myself that I'm gonna find a
way." And actually greathumility requires great
confidence.
It takes confidence to havesomeone say,"I need to get
better.
I need help." And it takesarrogance when the lights are on
and things aren't going theright way to have this

(00:22):
unshakeable belief that you'regonna find a way.

Michael Bauman (01:04):
Hello, everybody.
Welcome back to SuccessEngineering.
I'm your host, Michael Bauman Ihope you guys enjoyed this last
month where we coveredeverything from, you know, John
Coyle, Olympic silver medalistabout how we can actually slow
down time in our life.
He's an expert on chronoceptionvery fascinating episode.
To some personal insights that Ihave on how we can really dive

(01:28):
deep and uncover what deepsuccess means in our life.
And start these questions.
Start rattling these questionsaround in our brain to see if we
can actually create a life thatwe wanna live.
And then following that up withhow we can overcome our limiting
beliefs in our life and theincredible work done by Shirzad
Chamine and positiveintelligence and how we can use

(01:49):
framework to overcome limitingbeliefs and do the do the work
necessary for that.
And then finishing up with anincredibly fascinating
conversation with John Helliwellthe editor of the World
Happiness Report, which ranksdifferent countries based on
their life evaluations, theirhappiness, and then also the six
main things that correlate 75%of the happiness on these

(02:11):
scales.
Super, super interesting.
So check that out.
So this month for September, Allabout the mind.
So we're gonna have experts onproductivity and how we can
optimize it.
We're gonna have elite sportspsychologist and looking at what
is an elite performance mindsetand how does that differ in
performance and preparation.

(02:32):
And then we'll have, you know,somebody you even spent six
months in one of the mostviolent prisons in the UK,
transformed it from the insideout and the incredible power
that he had in his mindset goinginto that.
It's just unbelievable story.
So tons of really fun guestslaid out for you.
All right.
Let's jump into the show.
I have the privilege of havingBrian Levenson on.

(02:53):
He's an executive and mentalperformance coach.
He's worked with everyone fromCEOs, professional athletes,
teams, like the NBA, the NHL,the MLS, Division one athletic
departments, federal reserve.
I mean the list goes on and on.
He's done a lot of really coolthings, coached a lot of
incredible people.
He's also the podcast host ofIntentional Performers, where he

(03:14):
interviews a diverse group ofelite high performers and author
of Shift your Mind.
And we're gonna get into thatbecause some of the information
in that is fantastic around peakperformance mindset.
So welcome to the show here.
Privilege to have you.

Brian Levenson (03:28):
Thanks for having me, Michael.

Michael Bauman (03:30):
Absolutely.
So I wanna start with youfeeling lost selling ice cream
and candy and Julie and then youtake it away.

Brian Levenson (03:39):
Yeah.
I mean, you think of likewatershed moments in your life.
I'll get to Julie in a second.
But when I think of my career inthe intersections that I've been
on, there's definitely awatershed moment in there.
And so I graduated from college,a lost puppy.
I had no idea what I wanted todo for a living.
I studied sociology and AfricanAmerican studies.

(04:00):
Maybe if I graduated in 2022,that would be more relevant.
I feel like it's more valuetoday than it was when I
graduated, but I just studiedclasses that I was interested
in.
And as a result, when Igraduated I raised my hand and
said, who wanted to hire me?
And no one really, grabbed myhand and said, here, come with
me son.
So I, I worked in sales for afew years and or I landed at a
company, a local Washington DCcompany where I sold ice cream

(04:22):
and candy wholesale.
So I would go to restaurants,grocery stores, country clubs,
hotels, and I would have icecream in the trunk of my car, in
a freezer.
And I'd walk out and try to getthem to sample the goods.
And they sample the goods.
They usually would wanna buy it.
People like ice cream.
Even though I didn't like icecream as a side note.

Michael Bauman (04:40):
Oh, I was gonna ask, how many times did you
sample the goods?

Brian Levenson (04:43):
None.
I guess I'm everyone says I'mweird.
I don't like chocolate.
I've never liked chocolate.
My kids really think I'm weirdcuz I don't like chocolate, but
so I ended up working for thatcompany and I sort of got to a
crossroads in my career where Iknew like, all right, this ice
cream sales thing is probablynot what I'm gonna do forever.
And so I started interviewingfor other sales jobs and I found

(05:04):
that I was BSing my way throughthose interview processes.
And so back to Julie, who youmentioned when I graduated as a
lost puppy outta college, I juststarted calling people and
saying, Hey, would you meet withme?
And Julie was a family friend.
So she actually reached out tome and said, Brian, I wanna take
you out to lunch and tell youabout what I do.
I think you'd find itinteresting.
I was like, hell yeah, let's doit.

(05:25):
So we went to the cheesecakefactory.
If you've ever been to acheesecake factory, they give
you way too much food.
So I was happy.
That was lovely.
yeah.
As a 22 year old that's cold.
And so I remember just sittingwith her at the cheesecake
factory and she asked me toclose my eyes and she said, if I
asked you to like, tell mewhat's going on in this room,
would you be able to share?
I was like, yeah, I couldprobably share a lot.

(05:46):
She said, yeah, I've alwaysthought that you're very
perceptive.
And, there are times in yourlife where you feel like someone
sees you, that was one of thosetimes.
And as someone who was prettylost I would even say personally
and professionally, I felt alittle bit found in that moment.
And she told me about what shedid.
So she basically worked insports psychology.
She worked with some of the bestathletes in the world, and I

(06:08):
always loved sports like a lotof people, but I also loved
helping people.
And so I was really drawn to thepsychology side of sport and the
sports side of psychology.
But at the time I'd been inschool my whole life, I wanted
to work and I wanted to earn aliving.
So.
Even though we met pretty earlyon after I graduated.
I didn't do anything with thatconversation until I got to the

(06:29):
ice cream company.
And when I started to realize,all right, this probably isn't
gonna work out.
I met with her again.
She said, Hey, why don't youcome shadow me?
I'm working with a golfer at acountry club come out and walked
nine holes with us.
So I did that.
I started doing my research onthe field.
She started to help me look atonline courses.
I took an online course, andthen I said, you know what?
Let's do it.

(06:50):
So I applied to a grad program.
I went, did my master's insports psychology.
And it really set the table forwhat I'm doing today.
But yeah, if it wasn't for thatcheesecake factory lunch with
Julie, I have no idea what Iwould be doing today.
But yeah, I'm really grateful,Julie, we're supposed to have
lunch on Monday, so we are,we're still very much in touch
and she's absolutely the firstmentor in my life, but beyond my

(07:13):
family and really grateful forher.

Michael Bauman (07:15):
That's awesome.
that's the story that everybodywants, whether the people reach
out to you.
what I'm curious to just diveinto that.
Obviously it's been veryformation for you in your life.
I'm curious of what role youwould say, mentors play in just
a blanket statement in terms ofpeak performance.

Brian Levenson (07:32):
It's huge.
I mean, we were talking aboutMichael Gervais before we
started a recording and I thinkmentors can be people that are
not family, friends.
And so, Mike is someone whosepodcast I loved, I know his
podcast.
I would listen to one of yourpodcasts.
And you said, he's one of thethree podcasts you listened to.
Me as well, like I just love hispodcast.
And so if it wasn't for Mike, Iwouldn't have a podcast which is

(07:54):
on year six of me recording.
So, think of Mike as a mentor,even though he doesn't
necessarily know that and that'sokay.
I've spent some time with him.
We communicate every once in awhile, but you know, he's a
mentor and then there's a fewothers that are more formal
mentors.
So there's a guy named Neilstroll who actually passed away
recently.
He's more in the executivecoaching world and he was a

(08:16):
teacher of mine at Georgetown.
When I went back to school forexecutive coaching and on the
first day of class, he said,Anyone that wants to connect
with me.
You're welcome to reach out andwe can grab a cup of coffee.
And I was like, hell yeah, I'mdoing that.
And I think I might have beenthe only one in my cohort of 32
people that took him up on that.
And that led to, I would go andvisit him monthly and we talk

(08:38):
about what was going on.
And honestly, like most of thatwas him affirming that I was
heading in the right direction,which felt really good.
And then my uncle Bob is apsychotherapist.
And so he's been a mentor eversince I got into psychology.
And so I would say like formerlyNeil, Bob and Julie have
definitely been influences.
And I think one of the thingsI've learned about mentorship is

(09:00):
that a great mentor doesn't justtell you what to do.
They also show you what not todo.
And I've learned something fromall three of those people where
they may have made mistakesalong the way.
And they've shared those with meand I've learned from them, or
they're doing something todayand I'm watching it and I'm
saying.
I don't think that's where Iwanna be.

(09:21):
And so I think we get mentorsconfused sometimes and thinking
that we have to find likeMichael Gervais for example,
like the mentor, that's the topof our field.
And while Mike I'm sure is agreat mentor, I think we can
learn just as much from thosewho are willing to share their
struggles or their challenges.
And they don't have to be top ofclass, so to speak even though
by the way, Julie, Bob and Neilare.

(09:43):
So I shouldn't say that they'reall three really successful.
I don't know.
We'll talk about success later,but yeah, I mean, they've been
influences not just in peakperformance, but just in, how do
you run your practice?
What do you do?
How do you wanna set this up foryour family?
And when I say set it up foryour family, like to be there
for your family, so those arethings.
And then, I mean, my parentshave been the ultimate mentors

(10:04):
all along the way, and I lean onthem all the time.
My wife has been a mentor in alot of ways.
So, there are formal mentors,there are informal mentors, and
then there are people in yourlife that you just really value
that you wanna lean on.
So when I say you I would say I,that I wanna lean on.

Michael Bauman (10:20):
Yeah.
I think the idea, like, I meanof mentors is an interesting
one.
You're essentially looking atlike, who are people farther
ahead of me wherever I want togo, that I can help, help me in
whatever way, that looks like.
And I think sometimes people getcaught up in what you're talking
about with the Michael Gervaisor like the elite, like how do I
get this person to mentor me?
But what I love even is the ideaof books.

(10:41):
Like I just, I love books,right?
You can take, for somebody towrite a book, you have to
distill all of this stuff andtake essentially the best of
what you have put it into aformat that's digestible and you
can be quote unquote, mentoredby these people.
You can gain access to eliteworld class information from
books, and then you have a tier,going up to different levels of

(11:03):
that.
But I really, I appreciate yourthoughts and your insight on the
things that you can take away

Brian Levenson (11:07):
One more, one more thing on mentors.
I really think it's simplyexperience.
And to your point, a book cangive you experience an
autobiography, definitely cangive you all kinds of
experience.
And so to me, I'm just trying tocapture experience that I
haven't faced yet or capture asmuch experience as possible so

(11:28):
that I can glean some wisdomfrom those experiences.

Michael Bauman (11:31):
Yeah.
And I think I might bemisquoting this.
I think it was Warren Buffetthat actually says we all learn
from mistakes.
They just don't have to be ourown.
And so it's like, like you'retalking about, you can look at
these other people and go, oh,I'm seeing their mistakes, but I
might want to go down adifferent path.
Essentially.

Brian Levenson (11:46):
I love that because I struggle when someone
say, yeah, adversity shapespeople.
I don't think adversity shapespeople.
I think learning from adversityshapes people.
And so I'm big on distinctions.
Cause I think our vocabulary andour distinctions help us gain
clarity.
And so when you talk about thatfrom Warren buffet, it's like
you, I once had a friend of mineask he's like, I haven't been

(12:08):
through anything really hard oranything really difficult.
So I feel like in some ways Ihaven't been able to maximize my
learning or my growth.
And I'm like, dude, you don'thave go through cancer to
understand what it's like toovercome cancer and to have the
resilience that someone thatovercame cancer.
Yes.
Hard things, environments thatare tough can help shape us, but

(12:31):
I don't wanna go through lifegoing toward toxicity or awful
things.
And I don't wanna wait for thosethings to happen, to learn and
grow.
I wanna learn from WarrenBuffet's mistakes and not make
the same ones.
Like why should I make thatmistake go through the pain in
order to learn?
And I don't think we have to gothrough pain in order to learn.
I think pain can expedite ourlearning and growth, but I don't

(12:54):
believe we have to go throughthe pain.
We can see what someone elseexperienced and say, all right,
I'm not doing that.
Again, like I don't need tocheat on my wife to know the
pain that it's gonna cause heror myself if I did.
Like I can experience andobserve what other people go
through going through a divorceand going through some of the

(13:14):
challenges that come with losingtrust in a marriage.
I don't want to like goexperiment with that, to know
what it feels like to then knowthat I don't want to cheat on
her.
Like that seems silly to me.

Michael Bauman (13:24):
Yeah.
And exactly to that point.
I remember distinctly, I had afriend who went through a
divorce and I remember after thedivorce, he said all the things
that used to annoy me about myex-wife now are the things that
I miss and that's actually likereally stuck with me because I
look at that now, even with mywife or my kids, the things

(13:46):
like, my kids get up every dayat 6:00 AM.
Right.
It's not my favorite thing.
But I think about if I, ifanything were to happen to them,
would I miss that my two yearold daughter comes into my room
at 6:00 AM in the morning, like,absolutely.
Did I have to go through it tolearn that?
No, but I can, I can learn itfrom my friend and I can apply
it in a deep level to my life.

Brian Levenson (14:07):
Yeah,, 100%.
Our daughter's been in our bedthe last two nights.
And no, I, it's not really fair.
Cuz she gravitates to my wifeand then my wife doesn't sleep
and hurts her neck and all thisstuff.
But I had that thought gothrough my head.
I was like, gosh, we're not thatfar away from her never coming
in our bed ever again.
And so is there a part of methat kind of wants to cherish
this moment?

(14:27):
There's probably a part of methat does, but I also want my
sleep and so it's interestingthough, like those are, I think
it is a metaphor for life in alot of ways.
Like those difficult things wedo remember like we, our memory
is drawn to those things andthere is nostalgia that comes
with.
And how can we appreciate in themoment, but not want it to

(14:48):
happen all the time is ainteresting perspective as a
parent that I experiencedprobably on a daily basis.

Michael Bauman (14:55):
Yes.
I agree you at every stage,there's lovely things.
And then there's things thatjust drive you a whole wall.
I'm curious.
I mean, since we're on thattopic, I am curious what would
your definition of success as aparent look like?
And I'm also curious is how youhave structured your life around
the values of your family andthe relationships that you have.

Brian Levenson (15:16):
Yeah.
This is to me, everything.
I was fortunate to have a rolemodel that showed me this.
And my dad was very successfulby society's standards and
benchmarks or whatever you wannacall it, but he was home for
dinner.
And so he was home at like six30 every night.
We had dinner together, thenwe'd go play and then he'd help

(15:39):
put us to bed.
And I'd say, oh, I have twobrothers.
And so for me, when someone sayslike, you can't have it all I
saw something different.
I saw something differentmodeled for me.
So my norm is that you canstrive and work really hard and,
try to make an impact.
And be home for dinner.
And so success is that for mepersonally and professionally

(16:01):
they intertwine.
It's like, I wanna work reallyhard and I wanna be home for
dinner as much as I possiblycan.
And obviously there's times whenme and my wife go out or we have
go out with friends and leavethe kids home, which is also
healthy.
But yeah, like generallyspeaking, I wanna just be home
for dinner and, know, thepandemic.
Changed me too, cuz I used tohave an office and I wouldn't
leave the office until sixo'clock.

(16:23):
Like that was it.
I was there and sometimes six,10.
And, but I came home and duringthe pandemic, like yesterday, I
didn't have any clients at four30 and my son came up cuz I now
work from home.
I don't work from an officeanymore.
My son came up at four 30 and Iwas like, here take a seat and
I'll just work.
And I'm like, you can hang.

(16:43):
It's all good.
And so I've become more agileand more flexible in how I do
that.
But back to success, I think Ialso care about professional
success and I care aboutparenting success.
So professionally speaking, Ireally wanna do what I love when
I want, while working with eliteclients and, earning an elite
income, which I've defined forme.

(17:04):
It doesn't really matter whatothers have defined.
I do think of income as being apart of success for me.
I think it's important for me toearn and to focus on that.
It's certainly not the onlypiece.
And then as a parent, I mean, itsounds so cliche, but I remember
my son was born.
I said, I really just want himto be the best version of him.

(17:25):
And I try to come back to thatwith both of my kids.
I have a daughter as well.
Like I really just want them tobe the best version of them.
And when I can say that it opensme up to not put whatever my
shit is onto them and not to putany expectations or stress on
them and try to listen and tryto be open to what success means

(17:46):
for them and be okay with thatwhile imparting some wisdom
along the way.
So, yeah, I think of success asa parent very differently than I
do for myself professionally.

Michael Bauman (17:55):
I, yeah I really like that.
And some of the other things, inthe research that I did on you
too, talk to us about like, evenlike you talked about like
success being, holding the spacefor them to be who, allowing
them to become who they are, whothey're meant to be, whatever.
But also the importance alongthe way of actually taking,
caring taking care of ourself aswell and how that fits into the

(18:17):
equation.

Brian Levenson (18:18):
Yeah.
And as, as I was prepping foryour question there, I was
thinking in my head, I go, I dothis a lot where I there's a
visioning exercise.
I do it in my clients, or I havethem talk about like, what would
a great year look like?
So, it's just July 1st, 20, 23,and it's been a great year and I
have them describe it.
And the first time I did thatexercise for myself, what I

(18:38):
realized was I, and you have 90seconds.
I spent all 90 seconds talkingabout my professional life.
I fill a lot of space with myprofessional life.
I wrote a book, I have apodcast, I have a newsletter I'm
on social media.
I have 30 executives that I workwith.
I work with sports team.
Like I like to do a lot ofstuff.
I don't feel overwhelmed by it,but yeah, I fill the space

(19:00):
pretty good.
And so it didn't, I needed morethan 96, 90 seconds
professionally to talk about mywork.
But what I noticed when I didthat was that I didn't have room
and space for my family, formyself, for any sort of
exploration, emotionally, maybespiritually.

(19:20):
And so I need to bring myselfback when I often talk about
success because I had a clientonce tell me, take care of your
marriage first.
And the kid's second.
And that really stuck with mewhen I had kids, cuz about a
year into our first kid, my wifelooked at me and she said,
Brian, how are you doing?
And I'm like, I don't know.
I'm tired.
Like I feel like I haven'treally done much for myself.

(19:41):
She's like, yeah, you haven'tdone much for yourself.
But I think our marriage waspretty good.
And I think the kid was prettygood, but my wife sort of
imparted this wisdom in me.
It's like, if I'm not good, thenthose two things are gonna fall
apart.
And so I think we get itbackwards a lot as parents and
I'm no different.
I think sometimes we take careof the kid first, the marriage
second and ourselves third.
And I've really focused ontrying to reverse that as much

(20:01):
as possible take care of myselffirst, take care of the
marriage.
Second, take care of the kidsthird.
And I think we sometimesovervalue our value in our kids.
Like our kids are gonna be them.
They're gonna find their way.
And they don't need us everystep along the way, but we, at
least for me, I feel like I needto be involved.
And I think especially where weare in society today, like

(20:22):
everything's organized for them.
Everything's involving adults.
And I just had a conversationwith my wife the other day.
I'm like, we need to give themspace to just play and let be
kids.
And.
I think it's hard, it's becomingharder and harder to do that.
We just have so many optionswhen it comes to organized,
structured activities.
So back to me I really try toplay golf.

(20:43):
I, I exercise, I go on vacation.
Sometimes with my wife sometimesnot I really try to take care of
myself first And then my wifeand I make sure to go out to
dinner together to go to events,go to experiences.
And we leave our kids behind andmy wife is so great at this.
I mean, a lot of women,especially after they have a kid
early on, they feel attached totheir kid three months in, I

(21:06):
think we left and went skiingand we left our three month old
at home.
And we're fortunate.
We've got, we live by ourfamily.
And so we've got support thatway.
But yeah I think.
For me, it's been a gamechanger.
It's like, Hey, really focus onyour own health.
Cause if you don't have that,your marriage is gonna falter.
And then if your marriage isgonna falter, then it's gonna
impact the kids in a way aswell.

(21:26):
So yeah, I try to work backwardsin that way.

Michael Bauman (21:29):
Yeah, absolutely.
And we'll get into this cuz thisapplies, I mean, it's one of the
principles that you talked aboutin your Shift your Mind book.
And so we'll run through some ofthis and this was very
eye-opening for me, even interms of the research.
But one of the things that youtalk about is there's different
mindset for preparation andperformance.
And one of the aspects ofpreparation is what you call
selfish.

(21:50):
Like you are focusing onimproving yourself and then the
aspect of performance isselfless.
So you're preparing selfishly sothat you can perform well as a
father or in whatever role youwant to insert for that peak
performance.
So talk to us about thefoundations of the difference
between the preparation and theperformance and some of those
categories that you can seealmost a dichotomy between the

(22:12):
different sides.

Brian Levenson (22:14):
Yeah.
So this started probably likeeight years ago, nine years ago,
I was working with a golfer andhe was a college golfer and we
were actually at a Starbucks.
I used to go to my clients andmeet them where they were and we
were walking through how heprepares.
And then I said, all right,well, like what's your mindset

(22:34):
when you perform?
And then we literally took apiece of paper and just wrote a
list, preparation mind,performance mind.
And I was like, my eyes werejust wide.
I was like, whoa, these are verydifferent.
And so what he would work onwhen he'd work on his golf game,
what he needed was much morehumility.
He needed to focus on himself.
He needed to really make surethat he was getting into

(22:58):
uncomfortable positions andtrying to hit balls out of tough
positions and golf is actuallyhard to get uncomfortable
because there's a driving rangeand the driving range makes
things as easy and simple aspossible.
It's flat, it's on nice grass.
It's big and wide.
You don't have to necessarily goat a target.
So anyway we had all thesethings come up and then I

(23:18):
started bringing that to thesoccer player and the basketball
player and the baseball player.
And we just would do thisexercise.
And then I started to talk toexecutives about it and I was
just blown away.
I was like, wow, this is nottalked about enough.
And at the same time, TomCoughlin, who was the head coach
of the New York giants had abook come out that said, earn
the right to win.
And in that book, he talkedabout being humble enough to

(23:39):
prepare and confident enough toperform.
And I was like, whoa that's.
So I started bringing to myclients.
Hey, what does humble inpreparation look like?
And what does confident inperformance look like?
And it led to this deeperconversation.
So that's the backstory of it.
And from there, I would juststeal what my clients would
write down.

(24:00):
And we ended up having like 35of these shifts, so to speak a
preparation in performance.
And I was like, I think thiscould be a book.
And so I ended up hiring aneditor and a coach.
We ended up distilling those 35down to nine.
And I wanna be really clear,like they are not the nine
shifts.
Like you can have your own shiftand you can disagree with some

(24:23):
of the shifts in the book,depending on what you're doing
for performance.
So a firefighter is differentthan an athlete is different
than an actor is different thana doctor is different than a
lawyer like it.
So I don't claim that these areone size fits all and you can
just apply them to anything.
However, I do think that thenine that we focused on are the
most universal when it comes topreparation performance.

(24:43):
So the one you were mentioningwas selfish and selfless.
A lot of these words, I thinkget a bad rap.
So a few that we look down uponare selfish, perfect, arrogant.
Like these are words that weoften say, Don't be arrogant.
Don't be perfect.
Don't be selfish.
But when I would talk to myclients and we'd say like, what
do you really need when you'reperforming?
They would say, it's actuallybeyond confidence.

(25:04):
I need this unshakeable beliefin myself that I'm gonna find a
way.
And when we started to gettoward it is like, that's
actually not confidence.
I need to be confident all thetime.
And actually great humilityrequires great confidence.
It takes confidence to havesomeone say, I need to get
better.
I need help.
And it takes arrogance to bewhen the lights are on and

(25:26):
things, aren't going the rightway to have this unshakeable
belief that you're gonna find away think sometimes it's an
exaggerated sense of self.
It is.
It goes against logic.
It goes against what the noiseof the fans or the audience's
thinking.
And I, when I studied eliteperformers, I noticed it and I
just started to see it indocumentaries and books I would

(25:46):
read and podcasts I would listento.
So I went with arrogance.
It was a tricky word to put itin a book, cuz we've all had an
arrogate jerk and I don't valuearrogance all that much.
I actually value humility waymore.
And I think a lot of people areafraid to step into arrogance.
I think a lot of people areafraid to step into selfishness.
I think a lot of people areafraid to step into
perfectionism because there's alot there.

(26:08):
And if you overdose on any ofthose, it absolutely is toxic.
And by the way, if you'rearrogant in preparation, you're
not gonna learn anything andit's gonna hold you back
completely.
And by the way, if you areperfect in trying to be perfect
in performance, it's gonna getin the way as well.
And by the way, if you'reselfish in a performance for a
lot of team sports like that isdeath as well.

(26:29):
So the reason why those wordsget bad labels is not unjust.
They deserve it because if it'sused at the wrong time, it
absolutely can get in the way ofus getting to where we want to
go.
And so the book is really aboutwhen it's really about, it
depends when I need to be thisway and when I need to be that
way.
And that's ultimately what Iwanted to leave people with is

(26:49):
to think about, Hey, when do Ineed to be this way?
And when do I need to be thatway?
And by the way, my authenticself has these sides of me.
And I need to be intentional andthoughtful about bringing them
out at the right time.
And so I hope that comes acrossin the book.
That was the intention.
But I think people get hijackedwhen they see those words.
And sometimes.
Can't get the message.
So hopefully if you're listeningto this, you stayed with me for
long enough to get thepunchline.

Michael Bauman (27:12):
No, I absolutely love that.
Like, when I was looking atthose things, these are like
ideas that have been rattlingaround in my mind.
Like you have these justdichotomies and you're like, how
can this exist in the samespace?
And I love that distinctionbetween the preparation and the
performance.
And like you mentioned, so manyelite performance have the

(27:32):
ability to switch on almostinstantaneously, switch off
almost instantaneously andchange their state based on what
they need to be in the currentmoment.
And I find that so fascinatingwhere your analysis of it says
there's space for thesedifferent parts of yourself,

(27:53):
depending on the situation.
And then you work on yourability to be able to, bring
them forward when you need them.
I just think it's awesome.

Brian Levenson (28:01):
Yeah.
And we see critics come out whenpeople are arrogant in
performance, for example.
So the NBA finals just finishedDraymond green is someone who is
like this, but by the way, so isStephen Curry.
And by the way, so is ClayThompson.
Like you could go through thatentire team and Andrew Wiggins,
and I'm a big NBA guy.
So if I'm losing people here,but Andrew Riggins was the first

(28:23):
pick of the draft.
I watched him play in highschool.
He was supposed to be the nextLeBron James.
The hype was real with AndrewWiggins.
And one of the things I think hestruggled with was he struggled
with arrogance in performanceuntil he got to golden state.
And they said, no, dude, likeyou got the green light.
We got you like, go do yourthing, go dunk on people, go
shoot threes.
And I think he shifted.

(28:44):
And a lot of that environment ingolden state helped him shift.
Steve Kerr, their head coach hasbeen open and talked about when
he played with Michael Jordanand Steve Kerr.
As won multiple rings as aplayer, multiple rings as a
coach, he had to shift his mindto get into this arrogant
mindset.
Steve Kerr has talked aboutSteph Curry and how he loves his
arrogance.
That's the word, but arrogancedoesn't have to be outward.

(29:07):
It doesn't have to be dream ongreen.
It can be inward like AndrewWiggins.
Isn't flexing his muscles.
He isn't talking trash, but youwatch him play with a swagger
that is different than what itwas when he came into the
league.
And that to me is key.
And by the way, if you just havearrogance all the time, you
don't earn it through humblepreparation, then it's fake and
it's false.
So if you look at all thoseguys, they put the work in and

(29:29):
they are humble in preparation,they learn and they grow and
then they shift into thisarrogant performance.
So if we're talking aboutmaximizing and really my book
was about maximizing potential,it's not a book about being a
great human.
I actually don't even think it'sa book about being a great
leader.
Although some of the shiftswould apply to leadership.
Really as well as maximizingperformance.
And that's what I studied forthe last decade.

(29:49):
That's what I was like compelledto write about.
And so that to me is so, soimportant.
If you wanna try to find a wayto perform better, hopefully the
book will be helpful.
And I think you just need to doa deep dive into yourself and
figure out, all right, what'sholding me back.
The last thing I'll say myclients in sports, they mostly

(30:11):
were college or professional orelite high school athletes who
had aspirations of playing atthose two levels.
They almost always were good onthe preparation side.
Like if you went through andasked them, where are you on the
preparation side, where are youon performance and score
yourself outta 10?
They're good at experimenting inpreparation, being comfortable
with the uncomfortableanalyzing, working perfectionist

(30:32):
combo, all these shifts on thepreparation side, they're good
at, they were hiring me mostlybecause they would struggle on
shifting in the performanceside.
And the reason they were oftenstruggling was because they were
bringing this preparation mindinto their performance and it
was getting in the way for them.
So my job was often to help onthat performance side.

Michael Bauman (30:51):
Yeah.
And I think that's exactlyright.
And I love the distinction thatyou made there, and I know words
are important for you.
So you're made that distinctionof like, this is how you can
perform at a peak level.
It's not even, to be a goodperson or leadership, because
that's what I found too.
A lot of times we have this,image of success and people that
are quote unquote successful.

(31:12):
They are very, extremely good ata very niche talent.
And that does not necessarilymean that their life is good.
Their relationship's good.
Like there is no correlationthere.
It might be.
But there's a lot of instanceswhere it's not as well.
And I, like, I

Brian Levenson (31:28):
I actually think what, and this is a potential
book idea that I've also oftenwrestled with, like, Mike
Gervais talks about the darkside of greatness.
And I actually, I don't knowthis isn't, I haven't researched
this, but I actually think whathelps you be an elite performer
can often get in the way of yourrelationships can often get in

(31:49):
the way of your capacity tolead.
And so you see this with a lotof our military.
They learn how to execute and doa job, but they struggle when
they come home with connectingwith their kids or their spouse.
I've worked with a lot ofmilitary.
I think that's a very realthing.
That's a challenge for thembecause what's required to
connect with our spouse is verydifferent than what's required

(32:11):
to.
Kill someone right.
Or to be at war.
Like those are very differentthings.
And I think it's the same insports.
It's like what's required toexecute in the focus and what's
needed to handle that pressureis very different than what's
needed to look your spouse inthe eyes and really care about
how their day was.
and so, and by the way,leadership and performance, we

(32:31):
also screw up all the time.
So we think the salesperson canbecome a great sales manager and
they are just very differentskill sets and we lump'em all
together and just say, thisperson's great.
So I'm actually amazed at thepeople who have the capacity to
do all of that.
And my dad, for example I lookup to, because I think he was
able to really be great as aperformer and execute.

(32:52):
He was able to be a great leaderand he was able to be a great
father and husband.
And that is admirable to me.
I don't know if I have thatpotential I'm still working on
it, but yeah, those are thingsthat I think about quite often
that we mix these thingstogether and we just say, oh,
they're great.
They'll be great at anything.
I'm not buying it.
And if you look at our history,whether it's the presidents of
the United States or, peoplethat change the world or CEOs

(33:16):
who are inventing dings andchanging our world that way you
look at their family, or youlook at their leadership skills
or, it, it doesn't alwaysequate.
And so I think like there issomething there that actually
goes against how we think aboutit.
Yes.

Michael Bauman (33:32):
Yes.
To all of the above, I thinkthat's, I think that's
excellent.
So just for the audience, whatI'm gonna do is I'm gonna kinda
run through these the list ofthese things.
Then I'm actually gonnatransition over to the
leadership side, cuz you have alot of information on that as
well.
So basically on one hand youhave, you wanna be humble in
preparation and then like youmentioned arrogant for

(33:52):
performance and then inpreparation for a lot of these
peak performance feels likework.
Like they are working hard andthat performance is actually
feels like play that's where allthe flow states and things like
that come into, preparation is afocus on the future.
They're looking at how do Iimprove their future?
Where performance is a focus onthe present which again is a
dichotomy that really stuck outto me as well.

(34:13):
And then preparation, you haveperfection perfectionistic,
basically attention to detail inpreparation, and then very
adaptable.
In performance.
Analysis in preparation, andthen instinct for performance,
experimenting for prep, trustingthe process that you've built in
all your preparation that you'vedone, your uncomfortable in

(34:33):
preparation, and verycomfortable in performance, fear
and fearlessness.
Fear for preparation,fearlessness for performance,
and then selfish and selfless.
So phenomenal read his book, cuzhe obviously goes into so much
more than that before we getinto the leadership stuff
though, I do wanna talk aboutfear.
So this is an important one.
This is, what keeps everybodyback from whatever they want in

(34:55):
life.
Like it hinges around fear.
Can you talk about how you goabout approaching fear in
preparation and also inperformance as well?

Brian Levenson (35:05):
So I grew up I'm deaf in my left ear.
And so, my parents were reallybig on instilling fear in me
before I crossed the street.
And most parents will say, lookboth ways before you cross the
street.
I think my parents said, look,eight ways.
Keep going back and forth eighttimes before you cross the
street.
And they needed to instill thatin me so that I could then be

(35:25):
fearless as I walk across thestreet.
And so I think we think of fearas being a bad thing.
And once again, I don't reallythink anything is bad and
anything is necessarily good.
I think it depends on when we'reusing it and if we overdose or
over index on a thing, so fearis just concern or apprehension
of loss.
And when you study leadperformers, they absolutely use

(35:47):
fear of failure in preparation.
And they leverage that to put alittle more work in this
morning.
I worked out my trainer, likepart of my working outta the
trainer is that I wanna be ableto walk my kids down the aisle
at their wedding.
And I, I wanna have a little bitof fear that I might not, if I
keep eating or not exercising,like I think that fear helps me

(36:07):
get my shoes on and go exercise.
And so I think fear canabsolutely be a motivator.
I think if it's the onlymotivator, that's where you can
run into some issues and sometrouble, if we're led by fear, I
think that can run into sometrouble.
But I think like having a fearof failure and understanding
fear helps us go to the doctorit, and it allows us to give our

(36:29):
keys to somebody when we're atthe bar and say, Hey I might be
able to drive, but I don't wannaget a DUI.
I don't wanna, Hit somebody,like I think that fear and
preparation helps us.
And then fearlessness is theother side of the coin, where
when we are performing, we doneed to let go of the concern.
We need to be bold.
We need to be brave.

(36:50):
We need to be vulnerable,courageous, whatever word you
wanna put there and not worryabout the outcome.
And there comes a time where youhave to say F it I'm going for
it and let's make it happen.
And I think if you've doneenough fear in preparation, then
you've earned the right to thenlet go and just say, all right,
I've done all the work.
I've thought about everythingthat could go wrong.
I'll give you an example.

(37:11):
I have fear every time I come ona podcast.
And so like, my preparation forthis is like, I go on and I, I
try to listen and I try to learnabout you and like a word that
I'm really hoping we talk aboutat some point today is
loneliness.
Like, I think that is front andcenter in, in your work.
And so I had some fear and like,oh, that's something I'd like to

(37:32):
talk about with Michael.
And if I didn't have the fear,then probably wouldn't go on
your website.
I'd be like, I'm good.
I'm just gonna do my thing.
I have no concern.
I'm gonna be bold and brave if Iwas that in preparation, I don't
think I'd we'd have as great ofa conversation, but now where we
are, I need to be able to notworry about any fear that I have
about how I'm sounding.
Am I talking too much?
Am I talking too little?
Am I too loud?

(37:52):
Am I too soft?
I can't worry about that.
Like, it's go time.
Let's be fearless and I need tobe bold and brave.
And hopefully we'll talk aboutloneliness at some point, but
that's me.
Let's do it.

Michael Bauman (38:01):
no, I mean, you're AB absolutely.
Right.
And that's like how I, when Iprepare for my podcast
interviews, it's a very similarthing.
Like I, that attention todetail, like I'll do all my
research and do all of thesethings and have all of these
questions.
Then I might ask like two out ofthe 15, you know what I mean?
But it's like that preparationallows me to be fearless when
I'm doing the conversation,because I'm like, I've done the

(38:22):
preparation and now we're goingwith the flow.

Brian Levenson (38:24):
Beyonce has this great quote where she said, I
think of Beyonce, like soccer,you gotta drop Beyonce in here.
Right.
Okay, great.
Yeah.
Like she has this great quoteand I love Beyonce because she
is really the epitome of thebook.
Because she is, her preparationis insane.
Like it is incredible, but whenyou watch her on stage, she lets
go of all that and she is aperformer.

(38:46):
And the other cool thing aboutBeyonce is she's soft spoken.
She's actually seemingly veryintroverted.
And so I think she's a goodexample of when you're
performing, you don't have to bethe same way that you are when
you're at dinner with anothercouple, like it can be different
and that's fine.
And like, we need to giveourselves permission to step
into that side of ourself.
And I think she just does awonderful job of that, but she
says I'm nervous when I'm notnervous.

(39:09):
If I'm nervous, I know I'm gonnahave a great show.
And I think that's the fear.
Like we need to have a littlebit of anxiety, a little bit of
nerves to make sure that we'redoting all our eyes and crossing
all our Ts.
And if we don't have that, thenwe're holding back our attention
to detail and we're making we'renot making the plans and the
preparation we need to then letgo.
And I'm pretty sure when shegets on that stage it, she lets

(39:30):
go of those nerves and they goaway because now she's home and
she knows, and she's gonna bebold and brave.
And if there's a misstep or amishap, she's gonna keep going
and not worry about the loss orthe fans booing or anything like
that happening.
Yeah.

Michael Bauman (39:45):
And I think, what you're talking about is
that fear is the correlation tovalue, right?
Like the things that you valuethe most, you're the most scared
of losing or, whatever it comesdown to, doing poorly in a
performance or whatever that is.
And so, like you said, it's situit depends on the situation.
So that fear, it shows that youactually have a value for this,

(40:08):
and it's important and it'simportant enough to feel fear
around it.
And I, again, I'm glad youbrought that up.

Brian Levenson (40:16):
Can you imagine if we never had that feeling,
how boring would life be?
And I think about that with allof the emotions, like if I never
was angry or sad or frustratedand trust me, like I work on
those things, especially thatfrustrated in anger part.
But imagine if like you hadsomeone close to you die and you
weren't sad.
Like what?
That's not what I want in life.
Like that's not the goal.

(40:36):
And so I struggle with peoplethat are like, oh, just be
positive all the time.
No don't like, feel the sadnesswhen someone passes.
Oh, just be fearless.
No, don't just be fearless.
Like have a little bit of fearthat this won't go well.
And sit in that for a littlebit.
Don't sit in it all the time,anxiety.
Like we all think of anxiety asa bad thing, but like anxiety is

(40:59):
necessary.
It's our radar.
It's a signal that somethingmight be a little bit off or
that there's riskier and maybewe need to step into the risk,
but we need to be able to feelit notice it, observe it.
And then like my mentor, Neil,who I mentioned earlier you to
always say, do you have thisstory or does the story of you?
And I love that phrase and I'veused that with most of my

(41:21):
clients, but I've taken it toone more step where I would say,
like, do you have the anxiety ordoes the anxiety of you, if you
have sadness or does sadness of.
Do you have anger or does angerhave you, and you could keep
going on that list because Ithink there's a difference and
we need to be able toacknowledge like, yes, living
involves having sadness, butthat doesn't mean sadness needs

(41:42):
to have you that's depression,you can have anger, but anger
doesn't need to have you thatleads to all kinds of issues.
Even like alcohol, do you have aglass of wine or does wine have
you like, those are differentthings.
And so I love that dynamic atplay.
And I think I've learned so muchfrom just putting that framework

(42:03):
into my world.
Yeah,

Michael Bauman (42:04):
I think that's excellent.
And using that as a segue we'llget to loneliness here, like you
wanted, but the, when you lookat the research around
loneliness, like loneliness, andjust like any of these things,
when you look at emotions, whenyou look at fear, they're
actually serving a purpose,right?
So they serve a very specificpurpose.
It's like our pain network.
When you put your hand on astove, like it serves a very

(42:25):
specific purpose.
It's not comfortable, but itcauses you to get out of that
situation.
Emotions are similar in terms ofthat, in terms of it's going
that there's a fundamental need.
A lot of times that's goingunmet here that we need to look
at.
So when you look at loneliness,they actually show.
Acute loneliness.
There's a difference betweenacute loneliness and chronic and
acute.

(42:45):
When you have acute loneliness,it actually triggers you to pick
up more signals from otherpeople, the body language,
because you're trying toreconnect into a social group,
but it's different than all thenegative effects of chronic
loneliness.
So with that in mind, I'd loveto turn it over to you as far as
what loneliness does look likefrom a peak performance

(43:06):
standpoint from these peakperformance or even for yourself
personally.

Brian Levenson (43:10):
Yeah.
I mean, I'd rather talk aboutmyself.
Not because I want to, but Ithink it would be more helpful
for our for me.
Like, I need help here.
And so to talk about it fromanother person's perspective,
wouldn't do justice to my ownvulnerability and my own desire
to get better.
So yeah, I mean, The pandemicfor me, the loneliness has been

(43:31):
the word that it's been thehardest part.
And I understand people havedied and people have had health
issues.
And I had COVID, I still havesome health issues from it.
And so like, I understandthere's like real big things and
I'm not minimizing that peoplehave lost jobs running toward a
recession.
Like there's some real shitgoing on for me.
I have felt disconnected.

(43:52):
I felt like, my whole life I'vehad great friendships and great
relationships and I've feltlonely over the last few years.
And that's a new feeling for me.
So hopefully it's acute.
But yeah, belonging is a bigdeal for me.
Everyone says I'm an extrovert.
So I guess I'll say I'm anextrovert.
The tests say I'm an extrovertand so I like say that

(44:15):
begrudgingly, I just don't likethat label, but yeah, I
definitely crave humaninteraction and I have felt
lonely over the last coupleyears.
And that's a new feeling for meand I've been working on it.
I have a coach, we talked aboutthis in our last meeting last
week and I've been trying tolike go out there and hunt

(44:36):
relationships and hunt, meaningand deep connections.
I have plenty of surfacenetworks and communities that I
can be a part of and I am, andI'm grateful for those and they
help.
But I think for whatever reasonI have felt lonely.

(44:56):
I felt disconnected in a lot ofways the last couple years.
So, yeah, help me, like, I don'tknow, like what I, my, my plan
is to like go I realize I'veprobably always gone toward
convenience in a lot of myrelationships.
I'm very fortunate.
I live where I grew up.
I've got amazing friends thatI've known in their entire life
and my entire life.
Like, it's a very uniqueenvironment that I'm in, where

(45:19):
I've had just amazing peoplehigh character people that I
like being around.
I've found the last couple yearsto be difficult, to stay
connected to anybody.
And there's a lot of factorsthat go into whether or not
you're able to stay connected topeople with a pandemic.
And so, yeah, loneliness wouldbe the word that I would use.
That's been the biggestchallenge for me over the last

(45:41):
couple years.
And so, yeah I definitely don'thave it figured out and I'm
trying to improve that.
What's the opposite ofloneliness?
Well,

Michael Bauman (45:50):
That's actually the interesting, that's the
interesting thing.
When you look, cuz you love thewords, right?
That's the interesting thing.
You'll a lot of times you'llfind this when we have these
words that relate to fundamentalneeds that we have, sometimes
it's difficult to find theopposite of the word.
Like, like when you havesomething like pain, well what's

(46:12):
the opposite of pain.
Well, you could say health sortof right.
It's that kind of.
Thing with loneliness.
Like what's the opposite ofloneliness you could say
connected sort of.
Right.
But a lot of times when we havethese words, the opposite is
just an optimal state and it'slike that fish in the water kind

(46:32):
of thing.
Like it's like when you don'thave pain, you don't think about
your health really?
It's kinda like what you'retalking about with fear, right?
Like when you don't have pain,you're not thinking about your
health until you have pain.
Right.
And then loneliness is that kindof thing.
Like when you don't haveloneliness, you're just doing
life.
Like, there's not really like,you could say connected.
But there's not really a reallystrong word that correlates to

(46:52):
the opposite of it.
And I

Brian Levenson (46:54):
think what you, the word that's coming up for me
is belonging.
And but I think I have belongingin my life.
Like I have community, I have, Ibelong to tribes, so to speak.
Well here.
So you're

Michael Bauman (47:07):
yeah, go ahead.
No, I'm gonna say so here's thething with loneliness is it's
important to realize there'sactually different circles of it
and this correlates to how wedefine ourselves.
Right.
So if I were to say, like, ifyou were to ask how do you
define yourself?
And I'd say like, I'm this tall,I brown, brown hair, this color
eyes, whatever.
I define myself here.
Right.
Then do we have our, like myintimate definition?

(47:28):
Right.
So I define myself as like, I'ma husband, I'm a spouse,
whatever.
I'm a father.
I define it in relationship tothe intimate circles.
Then you have it defined as I'man entrepreneur.
I'm an executive coach, thatkind of thing.
I'm an American yournationality, your race.
So we have those differentlevels and you could actually
look at those different levelsand basically go which one, and

(47:51):
if you just use a connectionthing or a belonging thing, it's
interesting to look at some ofloneliness.
Then this is, the researcharound it is subjective versus
objective loneliness.
So you can be surrounded bypeople in a room and feel
subjectively alone, and you canbe like hiking through the
Sahara desert and not feel aloneat all.

(48:11):
So the interesting thing is thathas to do with the internal
definition.
So do I, actually, some ofloneliness has to do with, am I
connecting internally withmyself?
Is there a connection?
Is there a belonging or is therea disconnection?
And then like you're looking at,you're a part of all these
tribes.
So you're like, I check the boxup on that one.
I feel like I fit in on thatone.

(48:32):
But looking at, is there adisconnect in terms of that
intimate level and basicallywhat, where in my past did I
really feel these connections?
What, it's like you do with peakperformance, like let's break it
down and look at what are thecomponents, what are the
variables that made thatconnection amazing.
And then what skills do I needto develop to reproduce that in

(48:52):
the challenging environment thatI have?

Brian Levenson (48:54):
It's really good.
And what I got to my coach isreally focusing more internally
than externally.
And there's a lot there, right?
Like I think I've always beensomeone who people go to for
deep conversations.
But who do I go to for deepconversations?
Like, I'm the one that everyonecomes to when they want help
with something, but who do I goto?

(49:16):
And so, we sort of shine thelight back on me, which is
really healthy, I think andhelpful.
And rather than change people inmy network or my community, like
how can I maybe change some ofparts of me?
And like, I love what you saidis like, if I'm in a room and I
feel lonely, like, all right,well what's going on for me?

(49:38):
And to your point, like, that'swhy I struggle with the word
extroverted, cuz I gettremendous energy from nature
and being alone as well.
And so I know that feeling ofnot feeling lonely when you're
in the Sahara desert, so tospeak.
So I've, you've got me sort ofwondering for myself, like what
is my relationship withloneliness?
And I feel lonely.

(49:59):
What do I want do in thosesituations?
Do I want to just sit in.
Do I want to be okay with it.
Do I wanna dance with.
Like, and I'm not sure, I thinkI need to chew on that a little
bit more.
And there's a signal there thatI need to just pay attention to
and notice and observe and notlet it run me and not.
And I think the biggest thing isnot let it create a story about

(50:22):
others because I don't onlythink that's fair to them and
they're just doing the best theycan.
And when I'm in that room and Ifeel like, oh, I'm not connected
to those people.
It's like, well, that's me.
It's not them.
And there's, I can have gracefor myself or I can say, all
right, like, let's go have aconversation with someone and.

(50:42):
Try to find out something aboutthem or give them the space to
ask me some questions.
I think that's the other piece.
I sometimes don't give peoplethe opportunity to really go and
ask me questions.
And then there's the otherpiece, which is like also who do
I wanna surround myself with andwho are the people that I want?
I said like, hunt, like go hunt.
Yeah.
People that love to ask youquestions and love to help you

(51:08):
and give them the opportunity todo that.
So those are things that I'mdefinitely thinking about
working on.
And yeah, but this conversation,the timing of it can be better
cuz it's absolutely a thing thatI'm thinking about.
Well,

Michael Bauman (51:20):
first off, I just really appreciate, your
willingness to, to share that'shuge.
And that's, obviously whereeverything with where everything
starts with and some things, tothink about with the aloneness,
when you look at, just the humanneeds that we have, these
fundamental human needs.
A lot of times we have some sortof need for safety, or you can
call it certainty or comfort.

(51:41):
Then we have needs for varietyand we have needs for
spontaneity and needs forchange.
Then we have needs for likesignificance to actually feel
like we matter.
And then the connection piece,the love piece, both for
ourselves and for other people.
So an interesting question tolook at is like, what needs am I
trying to basically, like yousaid, what's the signpost, what

(52:01):
needs am I trying to get metwith this is it actually, I just
feel super uncertain in liferight now.
And so this is a trigger forthat.
Or actually life just looksexactly the same and I need more
variety,

Brian Levenson (52:13):
right.
Or there was a time in thepandemic where, so I would say
it doesn't look very uncertain.
Which is fine.
And I actually, I createuncertainty because I create
stuff that piece the but thenthe spontaneity, there was
definitely a time during thepandemic where my wife and I are
like, we just need to dosomething different.
We went and got a hotel room inWashington, DC, and then I'll

(52:35):
never forget, like we were justtogether and we just went for a
walk through the city and, wewere just walking cuz we hadn't
seen anything.
We'd seen the same stuff overand over again and we were
craving it.
I think we've done a better job.
We've traveled more and had thespontaneity.
It's the last piece that youmentioned though, the love and
the connection and like thethere's it's that it's a deep

(52:57):
like piece that I've probablybeen questioning and it really
has to do with like friendshipsand relationships in that sense.
And yeah it's a me thing.
It's and I've talked about itfor a while now.
I.
I've talked about enough.
It's like, I need to take betteraction with it.

(53:19):
And maybe it's connected to theother pieces too.
It's like, Hey, maybe there'suncertainty there.
Maybe there's spontaneity.
That needs to be brought up.
Like tomorrow night I'm doingsomething way more spontaneous
with some friends and I'mexcited about that.
I really am.
So that was really helpful.

Michael Bauman (53:33):
yeah.
So yeah, I usually don't justturn this to like me to be
talking, but again I reallyappreciate you sharing and I
would say too, you are doing thework, right.
You have a coach and you'realready doing the work.
You're already taking the stepsand you already have a ton of
awareness around, the thingsthat potentially trigger it and
in what environments and what'scontributing to it.

(53:56):
So that's already, fantastic.
The other interesting kind ofexercise that you can do with
any emotion in general is youcan ask it, what is the positive
intent behind this?
And a lot of times forloneliness, it is a connection
kind of thing, but then you canfollow up those questions with
going if I was completely andtotally connected with other

(54:20):
people, what would be even moreimportant than that?
And it's interesting becauselike it, it's totally different
for different people, butsometimes from that spot, then
it might be, if I was completelyand totally connected with other
people, then I would be takingthat connection or taking what I
have from that and giving toother people or making an
impact.
And then you can follow it upwith that question again, like

(54:42):
if I was completely and totallygiving from that spot, what
would be even more importantthan that.
And, depending on yourbackground, it might get into,
religion, spirituality,connection, or, dissolution of
yourself.
You can, for a very simplequestion, use that as a starting
point and have it ratchet up toa lot higher levels of intent.

(55:03):
And then you can bring thosehigher levels of intent down,
back, back down those differentlevels and bring the feeling
into the feeling of lonelinessand actually see, how does that
change if I'm actually lookingat what is the highest intent
that I have behind this?
How does that, if I bring thatinto this moment, how does that
change the feeling ofloneliness?

Brian Levenson (55:21):
Yeah, I think it's a really good exercise and
once again, just what's comingup.
What's the relationship like.
It's interesting.
Like I've taken the approach ofbeing a coach and like, I don't
have everything figured out.
I definitely don't.
I think sometimes I present tothe people in my circle that I

(55:42):
do, and I think that is limitingthe connection and need to
genuinely appreciate and becurious about ways in which they
might help me be better ratherthan sometimes just assuming

(56:02):
that I know better.
And I think that's a growth edgefor me that I'm working.
Yeah,

Michael Bauman (56:10):
I love that.
I love, again, I love theawareness that you have around
it, and I love that you'reworking on it and it's a similar
thing for me.
Right.
A lot of times the areas that wehave strengths or tools around
is because we'd have to figureout these tools for ourself.
So the areas of loneliness, liketons, same kind of thing with
the pandemic, or in theinternational scene, when you
have the revolving door of likeyour friends, just leaving, like

(56:33):
it's something that is achallenge and a struggle for me
as well.
Like how do you navigate throughthis when you just have these
very real variables that reducethe length of the friendships
and stuff that you have.
And so you learn these tools andstuff for it, but it's, I had a
guest on the podcast and theytalk about, sometimes we
bookmark mental health.
Like I struggled with this,which really is an accurate

(56:54):
representation.
Like we're just a living andit's, it ebbs and flows it's
situation, depends on thesituation.
And we can learn things, we cangrow through it, but doesn't
necessarily mean like I wrappedit up with a bow and then we
sorted that out in the past, soI think that's important to
remember as well,

Brian Levenson (57:11):
for sure.

Michael Bauman (57:12):
Cool.
Well, again, thank you so muchfor your honesty and stuff
around this, and I know we'recoming to the end of the time
here, you have a tremendous, Imean, your book Shift your Mind
is amazing.
And your work that you do isamazing.
Where can people go to connectwith the elite level of coaching
and stuff that they do ifthey're interested or just

(57:34):
follow you and gain knowledgeand information?

Brian Levenson (57:37):
Yeah, it's interesting Shift your Mind was
like a culmination of a decadein this sports psychology world
and my business has changed.
So I spend more time now withexecutives than I do athletes.
A lot of the executives wereformer athletes are connected to
sports, but not all of them.
And we have a company calledStrong Skills, so you can go to
strong skills.co.
Check us out And we are coachesand facilitators.

(57:59):
And the name of the company isreally about changing how the
world thinks about soft skills.
I come from a sports background.
So if you say someone is soft insports, they usually get cut or
traded or released from theteam.
And so I've always just thoughtthat soft devalue what those
skills really are on skills likecreating curiosity or leadership

(58:23):
or teamwork or emotionalintelligence.
And so we do workshops.
We do them mostly remotely andwe teach organizations how to be
better at these skills.
And then we also do one-on-onecoaching.
So we believe in both, webelieve in group experiences and
we believe in one-on-onecoaching.
So there's some magnificentcoaches and facilitators that
are part of the team.

(58:44):
And there' on our website.
You'll find my podcast, which iscalled Intentional Performers.
You'll see the book, which isShift your Mind, which you
mentioned, you can sign up formy newsletter, which is called
Brian's message of the week.
So everything you need should bethere on social.
The two places I like to playare Twitter and LinkedIn at
Brian Levenson so other thanthat, Michael, this has been
really fun, really helpful forme.
Thanks for the free session andjust grateful that our path

(59:08):
crossed grateful for MarkPolymeropoulus for connecting
us.
And if you're ever back in thestates and in DC, hopefully we
can meet in person sometime.

Michael Bauman (59:15):
Yeah, that'd be amazing.
I really appreciate your time.
And again, your insight of yearsand years of refining, the work
with elite performers and then,with the work that you do with
the executive coaching as well,we didn't even get into the
framework, but looking atstarting with the foundation,
then working at, from internallythen externally to leadership is
just excellent.

(59:36):
So thank you so much for takingyour time.
I appreciate having you as aguest.

Brian Levenson (59:40):
Thanks Michael.