S5E1 An Organizer's Take of Star Trek

I am beyond stoked to share this convo with you! In the first episode of the SSC Podcast season 5, I nerd out with my dear friend and colleague on all things Star Trek, and what we've learned about organizing, building community, and conflict through the generations of Starfleet and stories. 

***Please Note: This show contains spoilers of almost every generation of Star Trek. You've been warned, hommie.***

GUEST BIO

Lolan B. Sevilla, MPA, is an organizer and cultural worker who roots their work in community, study, and practice. Currently, the Principal Strategist at Artful Praxis Consulting, they have a passion for organizing across the public, private, nonprofit, and education sectors, as well as developing cross-sectoral leadership programs that specialize in crisis care, program strategy, and collaborative governance that is grounded in an anti-oppression framework. They have co-led organizing initiatives incorporating strategies of coalition & base-building, narrative shift, and collective care through their movement lineage at organizations like Funders for Justice, The NYC Anti-Violence Project, CAAAV: Organizing Asian Communities, and the Audre Lorde Project. A member of the National Writers Union (UAW Local 1981), Lolan has co-edited the anthology “Walang Hiya: Literature Taking Risks Towards Liberatory Practice,” as well as co-authored the report, "Speak Up About It: Community Experiences, and Actions to Reduce the Impact of Anti-TGNC Discrimination in the Workplace.

CONTACT GUEST
https://www.artfulpraxisconsulting.org/

PRODUCED BY: Goddess

MUSIC: 22,000 by Spirit Paris McIntyre


SUPPORT SSC
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/GoddessSowerOfSeeds

FOLLOW SSC
Sunseedcommunity.com
FB/IG: @Sunseedcommunity
Subscribe to SSC here

Episode Transcript

UNKNOWN (00:00):
Ah.

SPEAKER_03 (00:42):
Hello fellow weird and wild ones.
It has been a minute.
So much has evolved and changedabout your lovely host and me,

(01:02):
Goddess, and Sunseed communitysince season four of the
podcast.
And I am stoked to share some ofthe dopest folks I've met, and
some of the been in communitywith, and have learned from
along the way in season five ofthe SSC podcast.
So grab your drink, get yoursnacky snacks, and gather your

(01:24):
homies for the end times.
End of what?
I'm really not sure, but Ireally hope it's fascism.
But I digress, differentconversation.
Let's get on with the show.

SPEAKER_02 (01:43):
You are inspiring.
You are inspiring.
You are inspiring at least22,000 times a day.
So inspiring.
He's so inspiring.

SPEAKER_03 (02:00):
Lolan Sevilla is a strategist with Sauce.
They are culture tender, powerweaver, cosmic level
consultants.
They move through nonprofits andphilanthropic spaces like a
conductor guiding a freedomsymphony.
Equal parts theory, vibe check,and accountability, Lowland
builds political homes the wayarchitects dream of utopias,

(02:24):
rooted in practice, raised withcare, and resistant to harm.
I love this so much.
Lowland doesn't just write MOUs.
They remix them with values,vision, and velvet gloves.
Their leadership, decolonial,dexterous, and deeply
principled.
They're the kind of person whoquotes Gramsci and brings snacks

(02:47):
to the study group.
Their analysis is sharp enoughto cut through the red tape, yet
soft enough to hold a roomtenderly while people unlearn in
real time.
Basically, if bell hooks andRuPaul ever learned, teamed up
to run a movement incubator,they'd call Lolan for strategic

(03:09):
advising.
Lolan, I love this bio a littleless than I love you, but I love
it a lot.
It speaks to you so well.
Thank you for being on thepodcast.
I am so excited for this episodeto be in community with a fam,
deep fam member.

(03:31):
Thank you so much for beinghere.
If you don't mind, could youshare your pronouns and who you
are bringing into the space withyou today?

SPEAKER_01 (03:45):
Thank you, Goddess, for inviting me.
to be here to really talk aboutone of my favorite things in the
world, Star Trek, my love ofStar Trek and the application of
Star Trek to my work.
And so I really believe thatthis is probably at this point

(04:06):
the highlight of my career.
So just know that you wereresponsible for that.
My pronouns are they, them,their.
And who am I bringing into thisspace with me today?
In the spirit of this show,which is centering Star Trek and
leadership lessons, I'm bringingthe mentors and comrades whose

(04:27):
leadership and example havehelped guide me throughout my
path to where I am today.
Rosario Martinez, Pat Troxell,Felicia Gustin, Dr.
Connie One, Stacey Haynes, ChrisHayashi, Colette Carter, Sharon
Stapel, Shelby Chestnut, BeverlyTillery, Audacia Ray, Kathy

(04:48):
Dang, and Helena Wong, whoreally pushed my analysis, who
really pushed my practice toalign those with my actions and
my intentions.
So bringing them in.
I also would be remiss to notmention my partner and her
sister, bringing them into thisspace, who are the biggest Star

(05:11):
Trek nerds of all time in theentire eight years that I have
been a part of their family.
There's never once been a time,a gathering where we have been
together and we have not goneinto some deep philosophical
Star Trek conversation or some,you know, long riff of deep cut

(05:32):
trivia.
So I definitely consulted themfor this conversation.
And I'm kind of sweating to makesure that like I come correct
with it.
And with that, I bring in theStar Trek fandom.
By no means do I claim to be anexpert, but I always love when

(05:56):
my path gets to cross withfolks, regardless of if they
identify as a Trekkie or aTrekker, right?
That's a big controversy there.
And who helped deepen myknowledge of the universe,
especially in sharing what theylove about the franchise like
really helps me deepen myunderstanding and gives me

(06:19):
breadcrumbs for doing research,rewatching an episode.
And, you know, I alwaysinevitably get hit with some
nugget that I'm able to apply.
I

SPEAKER_03 (06:34):
love this so much.
Big shout out to all the folksthat you are bringing in with
this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
pronouns, they, them, for me aswell.
And I think who I'm bringinginto this space with me is the
amazing woman who introduced meto Star Trek, my mom.

(06:55):
I remember being little and Islept with my mom for like the
longest time when I was littleand I'd fall asleep to like the
sound of like Deep Space Nineand next generation and also

(07:15):
Voyager and like getting my hairbraided as I'm seeing all these
like alien creatures and beingslike navigating relatable
social, political, relationalchallenges that I would later

(07:37):
find in life.
And so, yeah, I'm definitelycarrying my mom in with me to
this conversation.
So a bit about the context.
we actually came out of a jobtogether.
We were both working at andfiguring out what we wanted to
do next.
Um, and what we truly desired inthe liberated workspace.

(08:01):
And you made the connectionbetween the very star check
crews, um, and healthycollaboration.
And I was like, ah, like, yes,like plus, plus, plus, plus,
plus, plus, plus.
Um, and we should also do apodcast episode.
So that's a little bit ofbackground about like how we got
here.
But I think for the rest of theStar Trek fans who are listening

(08:23):
to this, I think you'll be ableto deeply relate to what we're
going to talk about and relateto the characters across the
Star Trek universe that we'regoing to be bringing up too.
So I'm excited for this.
So the first question, timehonored.
What is your favorite Star Trekgeneration and why.

SPEAKER_01 (08:49):
This was the hardest question.
Let me say question one out thebat and my neuro spiciness was
firing on all axes.
So I need to share a little bitof my Star Trek lineage.
So as a child, I watched rerunsof the original series.

(09:13):
They would play it on channeleight every Saturday and Sunday
from two to three.
2 to 5 p.m., so it wasback-to-back episodes, and as a
child of a single parent who wasoften left to my own devices as
my parents worked, I, you know,the original series was my

(09:35):
babysitter was oftentimesplaying in the background, and
I'll be honest, I really didn'tunderstand what was happening.
I was under, I was, you know,between the ages of like five
and eight, but I loved I lovedthe color saturation.
I was trying to decipher whatwas always happening.

(09:56):
But I can't say that I had anyother understanding of Star Trek
beyond that.
It was my babysitter.
And then as I got older and thenext generation came out, I
remember family nights in ourfamily rooms, putting out the
blankets on the floor, lying onthe ground with my parents.

(10:19):
and my sister and watching TNG.
And so those two things likereally served as a foundation
for in my childhood.
But where I fell in love withthe Star Trek universe was
during Discovery.
In all its iterations of StarTrek, from the live action to

(10:45):
the animated series to everymovie in both the Prime and
Kelvin timelines, we've beengifted with possibility models
for how we can workcollaboratively towards civil
societies.
We see Gene Roddenberry's visionbeautifully laid out in the

(11:05):
original series, and inparticular, the the Vulcan
philosophy, infinite diversityand infinite combinations, which
represents a belief that beauty,growth and progress all result
from a union of the unlike.
So, you know, people, speciesfrom all walks of life being

(11:29):
able to come together and beingable to make something beautiful
in the work.
We've seen this across thecanon, right?
Women in leadership, disabilityand neurodivergence as valued
skill sets on teams, therepresentation of queerness and
poly relationships, and consentaround the labor of those in the

(11:51):
sex trades on pleasure planets,the representation of genders
beyond the binary.
It was always visible from thestart.
And so what helped me understandStar Trek Discovery's impact,
not only in my life, but I thinkbroadly, is remembering the

(12:12):
context of the political momentthat we were in when Discovery
first launched in 2017 and itran until 2024, right?
So from 2017 to 2020, we were inthe first Trump administration.
So we were We're seeing then therise of authoritarianism and

(12:34):
democratic backsliding.
The Trump administration drovedeep polarization, rolled back
civil rights protections, andwithdrew from international
agreements.
We were seeing far-rightpopulism surging globally.
And so you had Bolsonaro inBrazil, Duarte in the

(12:58):
Philippines, Brexit in the UK,increased repression of dissent.
So seeing protesterscriminalized any kind of dissent
against any administration, wewere seeing very quick
crackdowns globally.

(13:18):
And so, you know, then you layerthat with pandemic pandemic
politics and global reckoningsthat came out of the COVID
pandemic, right?
That it reshaped politicalpriorities.
It exposed even furtherinequities in health systems.

(13:41):
We saw labor protections andgovernance.
At that point, we're into theBiden administration and he's
having to clean up a lot of whatthe first Trump administration
had left of the country.
We're also seeing globaluprisings, racial uprising

(14:07):
sparked by the murder of GeorgeFloyd and the amplifying demands
for systemic change by peopleacross the globe.
We're seeing supply chainissues, vaccine inequity, and
the rise of infodemicdisinformation fueled by
mistrust in institutions.
And then lastly, what we'reseeing now is the ongoing

(14:33):
climate emergency.
And we're in a poly crisis era.
And so, you know, at the time ofin, discoveries tenure, you
know, Russia invaded Ukraine.
We saw escalating conflicts inSudan, Ethiopia, in Gaza and

(14:55):
Myanmar, reflecting intensifyingglobal instability and then
climate disasters.
So wildfires, floods, extremeheat and increasing in frequency
and severity.
So driving displacement andpolitical unrest.
It, all of this dovetailed tomake the arrival of the USS

(15:18):
Discovery and in particular theplight of, at the time,
Commander Michael Burnham.
Just, it really hit on so manydifferent levels for myself and
also, I would say, broadly for,you know, Black, Indigenous,
API, South, like, you know,folks of color who were

(15:40):
struggling broadly with theseissues, I think found themselves
gravitating towards Star Trek.
And you saw folks who were newerto the franchise who had never,
who had, you know, never givenStar Trek a thought.
And we're now actually seeing,uh, this possibility modeling.

(16:01):
We saw this, um, uh, visioningof a future that was, um, really
beautiful.
And I think, um, one of the, oneof the things that perfectly
contextualizes, um, uh,discovery, uh, comes from, um, I
the future is disabledprophecies, love notes, and

(16:24):
morning songs by Leah Lakshmi.
And so in her forward actuallywrites about discovery and
writes in particular, the typeof salve that it is for so many
people and for her or for themat this moment.
And so this quote, disco helpedseeing a future where things

(16:46):
were really fucked up, but abunch of neurodivergent
multiracial nerds with Blackfeminist leadership saved the
galaxy and revived theFederation through queer chosen
family.
It helped.
Seeing a future where queercharacters came back from death
to their lovers helped.
There were some really direTrumpian days that I got through

(17:08):
by pretending I was on the USSDiscovery in my head.
And so, end quote.
Where Discovery pushes the canonis is that it understands when
to be explicit rather thanimplicit.
When we need the narratives ofour storytelling to be more than

(17:31):
just a platform for moral andpolitical allegories, but an
actual mirror.
And so I would say that previousiterations of Star Trek had
always showed representation Imentioned earlier, we saw
queerness, we saw gender beyondthe binary, we saw interspecies

(17:55):
relationships, we saw thechildren of interspecies
relationships.
And with Discovery, though, wehad folks actually speaking
about it.
So, you know, Ensign Adira, Ithink it was in season three,

(18:17):
actually chooses their pronounsand lets their superior at the
time, Paul Stamets, Dr.
Stamets, that they go by they,them now and that she never, she
as a pronoun never reallyresonated.
And the scene, you know, Dr.
Stamets is like, okay, that'scool.

(18:39):
Moving on.
And so you see how in practice,you just see in practice a lot
of things that I have talkedabout in the organizations I've
been part of and that we'vecrafted policy and we've talked
about how to honor people'spronouns.

(19:00):
But what you see in discoveryare actual naming of why these
things are important.
That.
you're not just talking about,oh, I feel challenged by the
prime directive, but they'reactually going into deep

(19:20):
discussions about what it meansto interfere into autonomous
planets.
What is the role of technologyand advancement if we're
interfering with the way aplanet and a culture needs to

(19:40):
evolve?
in what makes sense for theirpeople and their society at the
time without outsideinterference.
And so, it moves beyond acolonial practice that we've
seen of people discovering newworlds and trying to conquer and
trying to eradicate theindigenous life there.

(20:05):
And with discovery, you seepeople like reckoning, vocally
and actually naming harms andnaming the types of care and the
solutions towards harm that needto happen in order to move
forward.
So I love discovery because itwas an anchor as we were moving

(20:26):
through a portal.
And I didn't know, none of usknew what was gonna be on the
other side.
And I would argue we're still inthat portal and to see that
mirrored was anchoring for me.

SPEAKER_03 (20:41):
You just Joe read it.
This episode is going to be sogood.
It's already so juicy with whatyou've covered so far.
I agree with you.
I think that Discovery broughtin a lot of new viewers to Star
Trek.
Folks that maybe weren't raisedon it or didn't like, you know,

(21:03):
come in on the original seriesor a lot of folks came in during
Next Generation.
I think it just brought in a lotof new viewers and a lot of
younger viewers.
Like I'm in my 30s.
I'm talking like, you know, 25and younger into the show.
And I think it was for thereasons that you just said

(21:25):
around like explicitly naming alot of these complex and yet
very like visceral experiencesthat we are going through
currently over like the past,what, 10, a lot of years, a lot
of freaking years.
Yeah.

(21:46):
Okay, I want to jump right intothis next question.
I will say mine was DS9.
Like, that is my favoritegeneration.
But I want to get into this nextquestion because it relates so
well to what you were justtalking about.
So if you could be a yeoman onany starship, who would you want
your captain and first commanderto be?

(22:06):
Oh,

SPEAKER_01 (22:07):
such a good question.
Okay, so I would have loved...
being an ensign on the USSEnterprise, NCC 1701, serving
under Captain Christopher Pike.
He is the type, ChristopherPike, we saw him in season two

(22:28):
of Discovery, and then he gothis own show with Strange New
Worlds.
And so He is the type of ciswhite man leader that I can get
behind.
I fucks with some CaptainChristopher Pike.
He's collaborative, but withboundaries.

(22:50):
You know, he wants to hear fromhis team.
He, you know, will oftenbrainstorm, troubleshoot around
a meal, right?
Apparently he's an amazing cook.
And so in Strange New Worlds,you see him cooking looking for
his crew and I just want to bethere.
I want, I want that.

(23:12):
Um, he's also accountable whenhe makes mistakes.
Um, and, and you've seen howlike he makes a call and, uh,
you know, someone, um, uh, uh,under him in his chain of
command will counter withsomething different.
He's like, no.
And it turns out that he wasincorrect and he'll actually

(23:33):
come back to it and like name itand, and be accountable.
And that builds trust thatbuilds trust as a leader.
He, you know, believes his roleas captain is supporting his
crew to grow into theirleadership at their own pace.
So he'll push but never push ina way that, that you know, turns

(23:56):
it the other way where, youknow, someone is running from
their responsibility.
He really, I believe, sits andthinks about how to help support
everyone on his crew, not juston the bridge, but, you know,
ensures that people are feelingsupported and able to rise up in

(24:19):
their leadership, whatever thatneeds to look like.
I think also it, it just goes, Ihave a lot of hair envy for
captain Christopher Pike.
His hair is amazing.
And so, um, yeah, it really, um,I sat with this a lot because,

(24:40):
you know, while discovery is myjam and I am all down for, um,
um, Michael Burnham as captain.
She eventually gets thecaptaincy that I don't know that
I wanted in my ensign years tolike have to travel 930 years

(25:02):
into the future.
It

SPEAKER_03 (25:05):
wasn't on your bucket list.

SPEAKER_01 (25:09):
There was a lot of trauma happening on the USS
Discovery.
And, you know, a lot of, youknow, there was the, you know,
the battle of binary stars,which a lot of the crew who
survived are, I'll get into thisin a minute, but who I would
love to serve as an answer andit'd be the USS Discovery under

(25:31):
Captain Pike.

SPEAKER_03 (25:33):
I'm wondering if when they were writing Captain
Pike's, like as a character ifthey were looking back at the
enterprise that generation andbeing like how can we fix this
how can we enterprise is likethe throwaway generation

SPEAKER_01 (25:56):
like

SPEAKER_03 (25:58):
yes With the generation, not the Starship
Enterprise, but the GenerationEnterprise is...
I feel like they made thatspecifically for white cis
hetero men.
And like, we want you back.

(26:19):
We just want you back on theteam.
This is for the good old boys.
So I wonder when they werewriting...
captain pike they're like yeahwe fucked up we fucked up and
let's let's fix this um yeah i ireally like your assessment and

(26:40):
appreciate the hair envy um forcaptain pike i think mine would
okay it's a mixture so i think iwould want to have Chakotay as
my captain oh I could look atthat man all day so Chakotay as
my captain and seven of nine asecond in command I think

(27:03):
they're a nice about Chakotay isreally rooted in not only what
it takes like I would say likelogically to be like a leader of
like a large fleet, like a largegroup of people and make hard
decisions, but also just likeemotionally, I feel like he's

(27:25):
very.
attuned to what his his crewsare going through and Seven of
Nine I think would help tobalance that with just like her
logical and like very matter offact nature or I would want
Seven of Nine as captain andcounselor Deanna Troy as second

(27:46):
in command because I'm here andall of them leadership team like
please yes I think those wouldbe my my two go-to.
Okay.
We're actually going to go.
Oh, wait, no, no, go, go ahead.
Go

SPEAKER_01 (28:03):
ahead.
Can I ask a follow-up question?

SPEAKER_03 (28:04):
I'm scared, but yes.

SPEAKER_01 (28:07):
No.
So for Chakotay, like captain ofVoyager or captain of the
Maquis?
Oh

SPEAKER_03 (28:16):
my gosh.
Well, I think I was thinking oflike a brand new ship.
Like they've already lived likethrough being, you know, captain
of the maquis and then alsosecond in command of voyager but
this is like a brand new ship somaybe there's other folks from
um that crew that are also onthis crew um so he's had like

(28:39):
years under his belt of likethey

SPEAKER_01 (28:42):
made it through the delta quadrant yeah they

SPEAKER_03 (28:44):
made it through the delta con yeah like we are we
are back home they're like weneed you to go back out and he's
like ah but i gotta do it

SPEAKER_01 (28:53):
I love that.
I love that.

SPEAKER_03 (28:57):
Okay, so we're actually going to go into our
first break.
I know that commercial breaksare usually a time where you
skip through.
I do that.
But I encourage you to actuallylisten to these commercials
because they are from local andnational organizations that I
feel you should be supporting.

(29:18):
So please enjoy this commercialbreak.

SPEAKER_02 (29:22):
Peace, y'all.
I'm Spirit Pierce McIntyre,Spirit, they, them, pronouns,
and I'm really thrilled to havemy piece 22,000 be the musical
feature for Sunseed CommunityPodcasts Season 5.
In addition to being a composer,I'm also a musician, cellist,
lyricist, vocalist.
I am an artist coach, as well asa garment constructor.

(29:45):
So if you want to find out moreabout me, you can check out my
website,spiritpiercemcintyre.com, and
I'll see you next time.
You can also email me directlyif you want to work together.
McIntyreSpirit at gmail.com.
M-C-I-N-T-Y-R-E-S-P-I-R-I-T atgmail.com.

(30:06):
And you can stay up with me onIG at McIntyre Spirit.
Peace, y'all.

SPEAKER_03 (30:13):
Welcome back.
All right, next question,Lillian.
What aspects of how Star Trekportrays leadership and teamwork
really resonates with you?
And I think you've covered thisa little bit, but yeah, please
dive deeper.
And what also does not resonatewith you?

SPEAKER_01 (30:34):
Okay, so let me start with what resonates for
me.
So the first thing, this comesfrom the last season of
Discovery when they're on...
what feels like the most amazingtreasure hunt.
And, you know, they're having toget clues to get from one place

(30:59):
to the next, puzzles, all kindsof death defying tasks in order
to basically get to theprogenitors, you know, the
origin of all sentient life andwhat their lessons are.

(31:20):
And so there was a particularscene.
It was a lot of chaos.
And the phrase problem now,science later was uttered.
And this was on season five,episode nine, Lag Range Point.
And so For me, it emphasizes alot of trust and accountability

(31:43):
that has been built into therelationships of crew members.
And so on one end of thespectrum, because they're all
STEM nerds, you see folks getsuper excited about some amazing
science that's playing out rightin front of them.
Cool, but we're in the middle ofa crisis, so maybe not the most

(32:06):
appropriate time to bust out inthe step by step science and
mechanics of what is happening.
So problem now, science later.
And then on the other side ofthat coin, what happens when
there's a disagreement thathappens within the chain of
command during a vital moment?

(32:27):
Maybe there's a conflict, butthat specific moment is not the
time to process.
But we will get to address theissue once we're past the
initial crisis, Because we'veseen that good leaders
understand that to leaveconflict unaddressed means it
will absolutely come back tobite you in the ass.
Like in the middle of a highstakes mission, we're in a

(32:50):
nebula.
It's about to collapse on itselfand develop and envelop a
neighboring planet.
I don't need to know the steps.
Just do it.
Or, you know, like if there'sconflict, it's like we can't
process this right now.
Problem now, science later, wepromise to get to it, but now is
not the time.
And so I have been in manysituations in organizations, in

(33:15):
the middle of a campaign, in themiddle of an action where
something like that hashappened.
And, you know, there's a, I feellike sometimes in nonprofit
organizations, organizationsespecially, there becomes a
tendency to want to just divein.

(33:36):
We need to adjust this right nowor else we can't move forward.
And sometimes that might be thecase in a lower stakes
situation, but sometimes we justneed to focus and finish what
we're actually here to do.
So problem now, science later.
That's one.
Something that also are thesenext set of things that resonate

(33:58):
for me actually come from theunification episode series.
And so there are three in total.
Unification three happens inseason three of Discovery and
unification one and two happensduring season five of The Next

(34:21):
Generation.
And it's basically about Spock'swork of reuniting the Vulcans
and the Romulans.
And so it's tenuous work.
They've been at war, mortalenemies for decades.
centuries, a lot of violence, alot of mistrust and Spock's life

(34:41):
work, his life's work is aboutreuniting his people.
And so you see Spock doing hisorganizing on the TNG episodes
and then where we pick up onDiscovery is where Michael

(35:07):
Burnham, they're in the futurenow, they're 930 years into the
future.
The Federation is a shell of itsformer self.
There's a lot of distrust of theFederation.
Vulcan, which is now Navarre,the combined, the reunited

(35:28):
Romulan and Vulcan planet hasleft the Federation.
like a hundred years ago.
And so there's in that episode,just chock full of really
beautiful lessons aroundleadership that really resonate

(35:49):
for me.
So the first is that leadershipdevelopment is critical.
You see it in the various waysthat crew members are mentored
and not just by their immediatesupervisors, right?
We see, you know, Michael,Burnham was her first mentor was
Philippa Georgiou who passedaway.

(36:11):
We see Tilly, Ensign Tilly beingmentored by Michael Burnham.
We see Saru and MichaelBurnham's relationship and their
collaboration around supportingone another's leadership.
And so it is baked into everysingle role, I believe, on on

(36:36):
starships and that Yeah, it'scritical, it's important, and
you see that throughout theentire franchise.
The next is, and this is whereI'd love to hear from you, is

(36:57):
conflict care strategies.
So we see examples on theindividual, the interpersonal,
and the institutional level ofhow conflict care strategies are
embedded within this particularepisode of Unification 3.
So one, the impact of MichaelBurnham making decisions on
behalf of others without theirconsent.

(37:18):
And so that both Tilly and Saruhave established enough trust
with Michael Burnham to sharethe impact of her actions,
making decisions on their behalfwithout their consent, that that
happens, those really vitalconversations happen because
they can impede trust.
And then On the other end ofthat, you see Michael Burnham

(37:40):
holding all that and sittingwith it, sitting with her impact
and what she thought wasabsolutely the right decision to
make.
That wasn't necessarily thecase.
And so she repairs.
She repairs that with both Saruand Tilly.

(38:01):
And then The second is thatNavarre establishes the Coat
Milat, a group of Romulan,warrior nuns whose primary
teachings were about the way ofabsolute candor.
And so to support the Vulcansand Romulans regaining trust
after centuries of brutality onboth sides, the Coat Milat were

(38:27):
used as advocates in differenttypes of settings where they
were having to debate uh,scientific merits of, you know,
X, Y, and Z.
Uh, sometimes, uh, if a, uh,crime was committed that you,

(38:49):
or, uh, what is it?
Uh, the co the co-op and a lotare assigned to the lost causes
of, uh, Navarre.
And so, um, uh, that there is abody established to handle the
conflict of centuries ofconflict and help build trust.
So that's at the institutionallevel.

(39:09):
And then we also see Starfleetbeing accountable to Navarre for
the harm that it caused inpushing then Vulcan to conduct
experiments that everyone widelybelieved to be the cause of the
burn.
And so Vulcan removed itselffrom the Federation after having

(39:30):
been a founding member of it.
That first contact was done withthe Vulcans and to have them to
learn that they left Starfleetmeant that Starfleet, and so USS
Discovery now having to bear theresponsibility of what atonement
for Starfleet could look like.
So Yeah, that's, I'm going to,I'm going to pause there to see

(39:54):
if maybe you have any thoughts.
I

SPEAKER_03 (39:58):
think my, thank you for what you shared thus far,
because this spot on, I think,is a good way of like kind of
looking at like the biggerpicture.
picture of like thesocio-political um ways uh that
conflict is kind of like showsup um in Star Trek but then also

(40:19):
on like a like internally withinthe starships how it shows up
and I think that is more so whatI think about when I when I'm
thinking about conflict care ofhow the different characters I'm
thinking specifically of umAlana Torres.
Love Alana Torres.

(40:40):
And Tom Paris.
And how their characters...
They were never asked to checkpart of themselves at the door.
Alana Torres is a firecrackerand will speak her mind.
She shows when she's angry, whenshe's disappointed.
Tom Paris is the quote-unquotecool guy and does not follow

(41:06):
rules.
That has consequences, but it'snever...
Like, they're never shamed orasked to...
remove parts of themselves butthey're just asked to grow and
like find their place in in inthe collective like of the crew

(41:28):
um and i see that with all thecharacters of like there are so
many different personalitiesthere are people that i wouldn't
necessarily want to be friendswith or work with but they still
show up like o'brien probablywould not want to hang with him
but he shows up for the crew andpart of how he shows up and part

(41:49):
of his, like what he has tooffer is parts of his
personality that are quite like,like brass, or I would say like
rough around the edges, but thatlike leads to him making an
amazing leader as a part of,like as a leader of the
engineering crew.
So when it comes to conflict, Isee that everyone is, accepted

(42:14):
for who they are kind of like inlike you know in a family like
you accept people for who theyare but you still have
boundaries with them and theystill are asked to be held
accountable for when they don'tmake the greatest of decisions
um i think that's one thing andalso around the different ways
that folks can address conflictlike you have like you know the

(42:40):
the ready room where we can havea private conversation or we can
have it like have it out on umthe the main deck or
conversations being had in likethe the mess hall um Um, and the
cooks, the, um, will beGoldberg's character.

(43:01):
And I always forget her name.
Oh, I'm so sorry.
But like, uh, yes, yes.
Like there are different peoplewho like folks are going to, to,
um, as like refuge as ways oflike kind of getting out, like
what's been frustrating aboutthe mission or someone on the
team.
They have all these differentpeople who they can go to, to

(43:25):
help them as they're trying tofigure out how to solve really
complex relationship dynamicsand like complex like like like
internship like ship like issuesas well so i think that that's
really important and i love whenthey started having a therapist
on the crew like um torres likecounselor torres um I think she

(43:51):
added the component that I wasdeeply craving in other like
older generations of havingsomeone who acknowledges that
you don't have to be so strong.
You don't have to be perfect.
And how does kind of acceptingthe different emotions, the
different challenges that you'regoing to go through, how does

(44:15):
actually feeling into them work?
like affect the quality of yourwork um i'm gonna pause there
too because i'm gonna pausethere i want to go like go back
to you because i know you hadmore to say so please please
share

SPEAKER_01 (44:30):
I love that.
I love that.
And, um, I feel like we couldhave a whole separate episode
just on Guinan alone.
So, um, maybe there's a part twoat some point, but, um, thank
you for sharing that.
I, um, yeah, that like, um, thegrowth trajectory of, um,
leaders like B'Elanna Torres andTom Paris, like, um, that

(44:53):
conflict care strategies help,uh, help support people's
development as leaders, uh, AndI think that's something that
people don't necessarily makethe connection to, that conflict
care is seen as just strictly asmediation when there's conflict,
as opposed to, it's not justwhen conflict happens that we

(45:14):
have to institute solutions tosolve that particular issue.
issue, but how do we switchsteps way before that build in
connections and supports so thatwe can actually minimize the
amount of conflict mediationthat needs to happen.

(45:34):
And so I love your the examplesthat you shared.
And so going back to like whatresonates and situating back
into the unification episodes inunification one on Picard and

(45:58):
Spock are interacting andPicard's trying to understand
why, you know, Spock, like, leftfor Romulus, is under radar,
under cloak, no one knows.
People in the Federation arethinking that he's a turncoat,
has become a spy, has went tothe side of the Romulans.

(46:23):
And so Spock is explaining thatactually his work of unifying
the Vulcans and Romulans.
He actually needs to be on theground and building
relationships, makingconnections.
He he's organizing really iswhat it is.
And that he, he has to live inthe place of where he's trying

(46:46):
to organize so that he can buildtrust with, um, folks, uh, in
order to support, um, you know,the idea of reunification.
Cause you can't just like go andbe like reunifying that, like
there has to be a lot ofgroundwork that happens.
And so Picard says to Spock, um,he's like this, that sounds like
cowboy diplomacy.

(47:06):
And so cowboy diplomacy, um,really stuck with me, um,
because I I'm like, oh, it's,It's organizing in space.
It's organizing in space on StarTrek.
And it is about, it's the on theground work you do to build
trust and connection.
So it's not just about the firstcontact.
It's second contact, thirdcontact.

(47:28):
It's about how we are continuingto build the relationship
towards trust.
And then the next is that we seemodels for collaborative
governance.
So ultimately the story standsas a testament to a leadership
style that uplifts long-termrelationships reconciliation,
the bridging of social capital,daring innovation, and the

(47:51):
deeply personal sacrificessometimes needed for a lasting
peace.
And so, yeah, those are thethings that really resonate with
me in Star Trek personified bythe unification episodes.
So what doesn't resonate?
How about it took 930 years forMichael Burnham to get a

(48:13):
promotion to captain, okay?
All right.
Or how about like, I wastalking, I was talking to him,
man, like she was demoted twice.
I mean, whatever we, I get intothis a little bit later, but
that, yeah.

(48:33):
Like can a, can a, can a, can ablack woman actually be
compensated and be recognizedfor her leadership and not have
take almost a century?
um so yeah

SPEAKER_03 (48:46):
apparently not in the future or that

SPEAKER_01 (48:48):
no no so um so there's that uh and then there's
there's also like you know ifyou look at the context of the
the women captains that thatwe've seen um across franchises
so like um janeway captainjaneway and voyager um uh
captain friedman in lower deckswho is um uh the second black

(49:10):
woman uh captain althoughanimated But, um, uh, that, you
know, when we finally get to seewomen in leadership, it's always
these really extreme asssituations.
Like what was it?
Voyager was a 90 year voyage,right?
So it's like, okay.

(49:31):
Yeah.
You handle this mess.
Okay.
You know, Michael Burnham, we'renow in the future.
We need to rebuild all of this.
You can be a captain now.
So, so it's just, you see a lotof replication of, you know,

(49:51):
like you, anti-blackness andmisogynoir that we see in
nonprofit organizations.
We do see that.
Being like set up to fail.
Like you handle the

SPEAKER_03 (50:03):
board.

SPEAKER_01 (50:06):
You know, so that's something that apparently we
still have to fight for in ourinstitutions.
Yeah.
And then where also it doesn'tresonate for me is when
hierarchy and the chain ofcommand limits the team's
ability to remain flexible andpivot when necessary.

(50:29):
And that it potentially limitsthe ability more abundant
solutions.
We see this time and again inDiscovery.
We especially see it in LowerDecks, where I would argue is,
you know, Lower Decks is able topush the canon further because
of the freedom that comes withanimation.
So those are, that's the, there

SPEAKER_03 (50:54):
you go.
I mean, like I was here for it.
Yeah.
Okay.
I have follow-up questions, butwe're running out of time.
Okay, so let's get into thisnext one, because I think
there's still room to kind ofdive deeper into what you were
just talking about.
So in Star Trek, some challengesthe crew experience are

(51:18):
episodic, but others span thecourse of the entire show and
are deeply rooted in historictrauma.
So how is this also portrayed inwork and collaborative settings
in Star This world, the realworld, or so we call it.

SPEAKER_01 (51:37):
You know, I think I read that question incorrectly.

SPEAKER_03 (51:44):
what you interpreted of.

SPEAKER_01 (51:47):
I was talking, so I took it as to talk about trauma
within the context of the show,right?
And so how that long archappens.
And so in the first episode ofDiscovery, you know, we see
Michael Burnham and CaptainPhilippa Georgiou aboard the USS

(52:10):
Shenzhou, which, you know, bythe end of that um so the
episode is is it introducesmichael burnham as the first
officer um that we see um firstuh our first contact with

(52:30):
klingons in almost a centuryright and that um uh now we're
in escalating, we're seeingescalating tensions with the
Klingons.
And so Michael Burnham decidesto, she argues for a preemptive
strike referencing the VulcanKlingon history and that

(52:54):
Vulcans, earned Klingon respectthrough displays of strength.
And so the episode was calledVulcan Hello, and it was a
strategy of showing strength inorder to engage with the
Klingons in a peer-like way.
Because if they saw you as weak,then that was a no-go.
They weren't going to engage.
And so Michael Burnham wasreally, really just on this.

(53:17):
And Philippa Georgiou was like,no.
That's not what we're going todo.
We're going to follow protocoland Michael Burnham decides to
do it anyway and instigates theBattle of Binary Stars, which
ends up getting 8,186 crewmembers of the USS Shenzhou

(53:42):
murdered.
And so those who survived movedto the USS Discovery.
And so we see Michael Burnham,by the end of that episode,
she's been demoted, she's beenlabeled a mutineer, she's been
imprisoned, and she's losteverything.

(54:02):
And so when we move into youknow, the first season and
really through the whole arc ofdiscovery, Michael Burnham, that
grief, that guilt, that need toatone is the driver for how she

(54:24):
moves throughout the rest of hercareer, right?
So yeah, that atonement has notjust around being, you know
getting back to her rank thatshe, you know, she was at, but
it was also like theinterpersonal relationships.

(54:45):
People died, that the survivorswho were now on USS Discovery
with her have, you know, arenow, are disabled and are having
to use accessible devices to,you know, to now live.

(55:08):
And so she's needing to makeamends on the interpersonal
level with her various shipmatesshe's having to rebuild trust
within the federation of herleadership and she does that
like she's you know does thatfrom the like just from the

(55:29):
ground up and is given a lot ofshit and some of it is
absolutely like it's called for,right?
Because the impact of heractions caused harm, regardless
of what her intentions were,regardless of the fact that she

(55:49):
is an exemplary, like she's goodat her job.
And so we see how the traumafollows not just Michael
Burnham, but the whole crew asthey are having to navigate and
do work, still work and still dothese impossible tasks that
They're having to figure out away to rebuild trust with one

(56:13):
another as their circumstanceschange, as Burnham puts herself
on the line in order tohopefully atone.
And so we see that.
And that resonated for me a lotin my own leadership journey.

(56:34):
Yeah.
And I think the...
why it's important to address, Ithink is, or one of the other
outlying sort of things that Icould pull, lessons that I can

(56:54):
pull from this.
Spock in season three, a youngSpock who is a foster brother to
Michael Burnham says to her,you're a responsibility hoarder.
And so- Basically, as a resultof her guilt and her need for
atonement, sometimes veryunnecessarily just carries the

(57:19):
weight of the world on hershoulder.
The survival of sentient life ison her shoulders to have to
solve and fix.
And when any leader sort ofoperates from that frame of mind
or that mindset, it is it's it'sultimately destructive.

(57:41):
Right.
It places it doesn't place trustin your team members because
you're holding all of theresponsibility and you're not
allowing folks to grow.
You're not bringing folks in.
Yeah, and so absolutely, whileBurnham comes at this from a

(58:05):
place of guilt and desire toatone that, and there's also
some imposter syndrome in there,in the mix, I believe.
But I also understand that thisframing can be a setup.
also for black women leaders inparticular, right?
Who are oftentimes promoted toleadership positions when shit

(58:26):
hits the fan and they're needingsomeone to clean up the mess
that somebody else made.
So, you know, Michael Burnhamand the trauma of the USS
Discovery and the Shinzo and thecrew members you see play out.
And it's, again, that thing thatDiscovery does really well in
that it's not new.
Other starships have experiencedmasterpieces forms of trauma,

(58:51):
but that it's a through line.
It's almost its own character,really, in discovery, and that
it comes up in a variety ofways, real life ways.

SPEAKER_03 (59:01):
Yeah, that's a good point.
I think with other times wherethere's been that much where
whole crews have been decimated,usually the captain also dies
and so there's no body that wesee kind of carrying the weight

(59:25):
of that kind of trauma that theyhave caused like we don't see
that through line and see howthey um they navigate the trauma
while also trying to like redeemthemselves um in the way that we
see that um with um MichaelBurnham.
I'm curious what your take isalso when talking about how

(59:51):
Michael Burnham is kind ofnavigating this around the
difference between how Tilly andMichael build a relationship
versus how Saru and Michaelbuild their or rebuild their
relationship because I thinkSaru holds Michael accountable

(01:00:12):
in a different kind of way or isquite honest with Michael about
like how he feels about her andher past actions and current
actions and you see him changinghis mind over time but still
holding true to certain thingsthat like I think act as a
mirror to Michael and I thinkTilly's relationship with

(01:00:33):
Michael is coming from adifferent vantage point.
First of all, Tilly's youngerand, like, almost comes in as,
like, holds the trauma of, like,maybe her parents experiencing
the burn or, like, was veryyoung when it happened versus
Saru, who, like, was there.
It's

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:52):
different,

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:52):
yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:53):
Absolutely, it's different.
And, you know, Tilly also is,like...
Saru and Michael Burnham arepeers, right?
And because Tilly is an ensign,you know, she, they, and, you
know, when they becomeroommates, when Michael Burnham

(01:01:17):
is brought onto the Discovery aspart of a work release program,
I guess that's, it was a workrelease program, essentially.
Gone awry

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:29):
or something?
I don't know.

UNKNOWN (01:01:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:30):
Work releases already arrived.
But anyway, let me stop.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:35):
But essentially that's what, that's what it is.
Right.
And so she's brought on as aspecialist, but she's still, you
know, it's still her freedom iscontingent on her ability to do
this work.
And if she doesn't want to, ifshe don't, you know, she gets
put back in prison.
So by all accounts, it's, it'sa, it's a work release program.

(01:01:56):
And when she, you know, her andTilly become roommates and Tilly
gets over her initial, like theonly Michael, Michael, I know
girl, Michael, I know is, themutineer, um, that, uh, we see
also, uh, there's a generationalshift of perspective of like
willingness to like hear aboutMichael's experience and to

(01:02:22):
still see Michael as a fullhuman being and to engage in the
build that friendship and stillsees, understand, um, still
values, um, Michael's leadershipand, uh, experience within the
Federation.
And, and, and so it was like, ohno, will you be my mentor?
Um, and so that is, um,beautiful on a whole, on a lot

(01:02:46):
of different levels about like,you know, re-entry and, you
know, the respect that, um, youknow, folks who are re-entering
society, um, you know, the, the,um, the respect that, uh, I
think folks deserve as they dotheir work in these types of
programs.
And so anyways, there's that,but also, you know, and that,

(01:03:11):
episode, the unification episodewhere, where Tilly is actually,
you know, when she's talking toSaru and Saru's like asks Tilly,
essentially Michael has beendemoted from his number one.
And he asks Tilly to to beacting number one in Michael
Burnham's place.

(01:03:33):
Tilly identifies that Michaelput him in a situation that was
wrong and that it limited hisoptions, his choice.
And that she's like, I loveMichael.
Michael is like, she's theperson I love most in this
world.
She's my mentor.
I respect her.
And she did something wrong.

(01:03:55):
She did something incorrect thathad impact.
And these are the consequences.
And I feel like that is, I mean,I feel like like i can make a
lot of correlations um to thatexperience with my working with
you know like um millennial orgen z like um folks uh in

(01:04:15):
non-profits where um you knowthe the attitudes of the old
guard are you see it crumblingyou see like the uh ways that
you know we had thought aboutpunishment, you know, like being
tweaked on its head that peoplecan come back for that.

(01:04:36):
And that, you know, in any othersort of iteration of Star Trek,
maybe, you know, like, no onewould have given Michael Burnham
another chance Michael Burnhamwould just be left in prison.
And so, yeah, I think that that.
those two examples of like Saruand Tilly's approach to how they

(01:04:59):
see Michael and work withMichael are two different
perspectives, but two alsoreally valuable and dope views
of relationship.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:11):
Yes.
Okay, I'm gonna try to likeconsolidate this question.
Because I definitely want to getto what you're up to outside of
the Star Trek universe.
So Star Trek writers createreally good character arcs.
You talked a bit about thisalready.
We see people grow into theirfullest selves throughout the

(01:05:35):
show.
So In the past, what have beensome of your character arcs and
what do you foresee or areseeing in your current character
arcs?

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:52):
I love this question.
So my own character arcs,figuring out my own relationship
to leadership, I believe is alifelong process.
The type of leader I thought Ishould be as a young person has
thankfully transitioned intosomething a lot more thoughtful
in middle age because I had alot of people who were willing

(01:06:14):
to struggle through hardconversations to tell me about
myself or have me tell themabout themselves.
And part of why Michael Burnhamleadership arc resonated with me
is because we get to see aleader make a lot of mistakes
and have the time and space tothink through what atonement
looks like um you know havinghonesty with yourself in order

(01:06:39):
to understand your intentionsand whether or not your words
are aligning with your actionsand uh their resulting impact um
and um yeah that i think uhSomething that also I carry with
me a lot is something that Sarusaid to Dr.

(01:07:01):
Culber.
during the episode Choose toLive, and you see various
characters are making the choiceto live beyond the trauma or
beyond some trauma.
And so he says, sometimes themost important thing we can do

(01:07:22):
is to reach for one another.
And I think that this period oftime, reaching out to those
folks who get what you're doing,who are cheerleading you, who
can provide, be a good soundingboard because you know that your
best intentions around how youwant to grow is where they're

(01:07:43):
coming from.
And so, yeah, that I hope that Icontinue to find the connections
with folks in the movement,folks in the communities I am
part of, that help build healthyconnection, that help build
tangible solutions to theproblems we find ourselves with.

(01:08:05):
And that really at the end ofthe day, it's how we bridge our
social capital.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:12):
That's so beautiful.
Can you share a bit more aboutwho are these folks who are
supporting you as your storyunfolds?

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:23):
I feel like that's a perfect setup because you are
one of those people.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:26):
Right back at ya.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:28):
Yeah, no, I mean, I think, you know, you mentioned,
you know, the job that we wereat, where we first met, and that
you always from, you know, youfirst land, the time you first
landed there, were always sowilling to collaborate.
And I think that, that for me,that's, that's, that's number

(01:08:50):
one, like, willingness to, orjust understanding that no
individual can, can, can be theonly solution.
I find it suspect, you know,leaders who are just leaders of
their own, like prop up theirown leadership and they're not

(01:09:10):
giving props to like actuallythe team of folks who are
supporting them to be able to dowhat they do in the world.
And for me, that collaborativegovernance is something that I'm
really excited about and thatwhen I see people people who are
mirrored who are mirroring thesame thing I gravitate towards

(01:09:35):
them so there's you Dr.
Connie when I mentioned her asone of my comrades at the
beginning at AAPI Women Leadwhat she is doing with AAPI
women in the Bay Area inparticular and building a
political home and doing thework of addressing gender-based

(01:10:00):
violence has been reallyinspiring.
And she's been someone that I'vecollaborated with since we were
young little organizers runningthe streets as a hot mess.
Or I speak for myself.
Let me speak for myself.
And, you know, like so many goodorganizations, like people,

(01:10:21):
there are a lot of folks.
There's always Audrey LordeProject in New York, CAB,
Organizing Asian Communities,also in New York.
right to the city.
These folks and the folks whoinevitably end up working at
these organizations are thefolks that ultimately are folks

(01:10:43):
that I choose to flex with.

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:46):
I love that.
Yes.
Discernment and who you fuckswith.
Yes.
And right back at you as well.
I think over the time we've met,like since we've met, I've
really appreciated how, even inlike preparing, like so side

(01:11:08):
note to the folks who were not apart of the background of
creating this, like Lola wassending me text messages of
like, Like the mind map of howthey wanted to answer the
questions and all the backgroundresearch they were doing.
And that like, that deep divinginto things that you're

(01:11:30):
passionate about and how youshow up in other collaborations
and in our collaborations oflike, I really want to get this
done.
I need to go deep so that Iunderstand.
And so I'm not just like talkingfrom the surface level about
things.
Like, I really appreciate that.

(01:11:51):
And also just like the kindnessthat you show to the space and
you bring to the space, a senseof play, a sense of joy.
a sense of gentleness, I feellike is a reminder, no matter
like what we're doing, eitherwe're hanging out or we're
collaborating on some worktogether of like, there needs to

(01:12:13):
be actual right relationship inthis.
And I appreciate that.
And I think for my characterarc, It's interesting that you
said that about not doing thingsalone, because that is something
I constantly have.
And why I try to bring it intospaces is because I've had to
learn over time that I cannot beof an island on my own trying to

(01:12:37):
do things.
And that that is a part of thegift of collaboration is...
learning how to go through hardconversations and having
disagreement, even in like smallthings about like how things
should go.
That is a part of what makessomething better.

(01:12:59):
It can't just come from oneperson.
And I've had to like learn thatand learn that like, yes, it's
difficult working with otherpeople, but you can't play by
yourself.
You can, but it's just, it's notthe, it hits different.
It hits different.
And, and, And I think anotherthing in my character arc is

(01:13:21):
learning that you don't have togo, like you don't have to
remove parts of yourself.
I think I deeply resonate withSeven of Nine, Data, and Spock
across the generations becausethey had to learn how to
socialize with humans Eventhough they didn't feel human,

(01:13:46):
weren't human, or had anexperience as a human outside of
the context of humansocialization.
And so it's a reminder to me of,like, accepting my own
neurodivergence and not in a wayof, like, how do I...
acclimate to what's sociallyacceptable, but how do I take

(01:14:08):
who I am and not like put thataside while also learning how to
engage with folks who think liketheir brain just functions
different, differently than me.
Like, where is that?
So I think that's a characterarc that is huge, huge in my
life right now.
Yeah.

(01:14:29):
There's so much more I wanted tocover with you.
I wanted to cover like theDominion War and like Nog being
injured as a freaking child.
Like there was just so much Iwanted to cover with you and we
can't do it in one episode.
So I want to bring us to yourcurrent work.
So can you please tell us aboutyour current offerings and work

(01:14:54):
that you are doing and how canwe contact you?

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:57):
Oh yes, I'd love this, thank you.
So I am currently the principalstrategist behind Artful Praxis
Consulting, where I supportmovement formations, nonprofits,
leaders, and funders who arestuck in the middle of
complexity.
Figure out how to move with moreclarity, care, and political
grounding, whether it'snavigating conflict, shifting

(01:15:21):
power dynamics, or re-imaginingstrategy.
I come in as a thought partnerwho gets the nuance.
A lot of my work is abouttending to the relationships and
structures that hold our work,especially when they're under
pressure.
I run strategy labs, leadpolitical education and skills
building trainings, like the oneyou and I are going to be

(01:15:43):
co-leading on conflict care andembodied grant making.
I also support organizationsthrough leadership transitions
and governance shifts.
At the end of the day, I'm justreally invested in building
political home not just betterspreadsheets.
I'm here to help folks practicethe future and not just plan for

(01:16:04):
it.
So if you are interested intalking more with me, learning
more about Artful PraxisConsulting, you can visit our
website atwww.artfulpraxisconsulting.org.
And then we also have pages onLinkedIn and Instagram with the

(01:16:24):
handle at Artful PraxisConsulting.
Thank

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:28):
you so much, Lola.
Oh, please continue.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:32):
Thank, no, I was just going to thank you.
I was just going to thank

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:37):
you.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:38):
Most fun assignment ever.
I feel like if I can advocatefor a part two at some point,
there's still a lot for us totalk about.
Thank you so much for theinvitation and for, yeah, thank
you.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:56):
Yeah, thank you.
This has been a journey in andof itself, and I'm like, maybe
we should just have our ownpodcast where we just commentate
on, like, go through all thegender and comment.
I think folks would, I would eatthat up.
I don't know if other folkswould, but I would eat that up.
I love this.
And I also want us to have afriendship photo shoot in, like,

(01:17:17):
the ready room.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:20):
Yes.
I'm all for that.
I feel like we can do, like, aOur own version of Mystery
Science Theater 3000.
And we're just commenting on allthings pop culture and their
political relevance.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:38):
Yes, please.
Yes, yes, yes, please.
So coming up, y'all.
Okay, so thank you again somuch.
Thank you so much, Lolan.
Oh, my words.
Anyway.
Last question.
What is your heart carrying withyou into this great big wide

(01:18:00):
world as we close ourconversation?
What

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:06):
is my heart carrying?
I feel it feels full.
It feels full in the best waywhen, you know, I can be
creative and also, you know, domy life's work.
I'm thinking about organizingand strategic development for
organizations, like to be ableto apply that to, you know, this

(01:18:29):
other love I have just, yeah, itmakes me feel engaged and ready
for more.
So thank you.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:40):
absolutely.
I think what my heart's carryingwith me is just appreciation for
our friendship.
I think that this is just onefacet of the ways that we nerd
out together.
And it means, like, I'm so giddyinside that, like, other folks
got to experience.

(01:19:00):
And your weaving of all thingsorganizing and Star Trek.

UNKNOWN (01:19:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:07):
I love that.
Thank you, friends.

SPEAKER_03 (01:19:10):
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for watchingthis episode.
I love you so much.
I'm kissing.
I'm kissing consensually.
If you want that, I will ask youbefore kissing you.
Thank you for listening to thisepisode of the podcast.

(01:19:30):
I encourage you to meander ondown to the description link
below to share this episode, tipthe guests, and follow all the
magical folks that made thispodcast possible.
Deep gratitude to all of you.
Even patting my myself a littlebit on the back right now labor
of love labor of love latergator and may you walk with the

(01:19:55):
ancestors peace

SPEAKER_02 (01:19:57):
out 22,000 times a day 22,000 times a day