December 16, 2019 • 20 mins
Time is one of our most valuable resources... So how do we make more? This week our super panel discusses strategies for better time management and ways to help others that aren't spending their time on the most important tasks.
Check out what our SuperTimeManagers have to say:
Samantha Naes - CN Video Production (Corporate Video Production)
Joel Emery - Ignite Strategies (Sales Systems)
Mary Kutheis - MCK Coaching and Training (Business Coaching and Confidante)
Cathy Sexton – The Productivity Experts (Speaker and Coach)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Christine (00:02):
You're listening to SuperManager, the podcast for
people who manage people andbusiness with ideas, friends and
expert interviews to help you bea SuperManager.
Sam (00:13):
Okay, so this week we're here talking about better time
management and I have my supertime managing friends with me
today.
I've got...
Joel (00:21):
Joel Emery with Ignite Strategies.
I serve as a sales systemsarchitect for small and midsize
businesses.
Cathy (00:26):
Cathy Sexton, The Productivity Experts and I work
with small business owners whoare overwhelmed, overworked and
underpaid.
Mary (00:33):
And Mary Kutheis with MCK Coaching and Training.
I am a business coach andconfidante.
Sam (00:37):
And I am Samantha Naes with CN Video.
We do corporate videoproduction.
I did a while ago, I guess theMyers Briggs, those personality
tests.
Mary (00:48):
Mhm, sure!
Sam (00:48):
and I am, or at least I was at the time, I think you are for
life, but I'm an ENTP.
Mary (00:52):
Okay.
Sam (00:53):
You're nodding kind of like you, you know what that means.
Mary (00:55):
Well I'm thinking about what that, yeah...
Sam (00:57):
The"P" part of that...
Mary (00:59):
Yeah.
Sam (00:59):
Is counterproductive when it comes to the work environment
because these are you,r off thecuff.
Mary (01:04):
Idea generators.
Sam (01:05):
On the fly...Yeah
Mary (01:05):
Let's do it a different way!
Sam (01:05):
And so I found in order to better manage my time at work,
the opposite of a P is a J andyour J's are your list keepers.
I keep a list of everything, Icheck things off of the list.
Mary (01:19):
Right.
Sam (01:19):
And so I had to become a J in the office just to survive,
because otherwise I was doing alittle of this, a little of that
and nothing was getting done.
I had a hundred things halfwaydone.
Mary (01:30):
That was a really good observation.
Sam (01:31):
Nothing was getting done, and I found that that if I keep
a list of everything, then I cantake it a step further.
First of all, I have much lesstime going, okay, so what now?
What should I work on now?
Because the list, I can lookthrough the list.
In the mornings, I can look atit and say, well, I'm going to
need so-and-so's input on that.
(01:52):
So I better send them a messageright away.
So I give them time to respondwhile I work on this, this and
this.
And then if I get thesebatteries charging, they can be
charging while I'm creating thisproduction plan.
And I'm able to kind of managetime a little bit better.
I think I get by and I thinkpretending to be a J and making
lists help a lot.
Joel (02:10):
One thing I want to mention about that though,
you're also, Sam, one of thefirst people I've ever met who
successfully implemented digitalproject management system for
their company.
You have all of your projectsrunning through an automated
system that helps you be moreefficient and do all of those
things.
So whether that is a weakness asyou articulated it initially or
(02:30):
a strength now in terms of howyou've responded to it though, I
don't know anybody who at thatstage in development has
successfully implemented one.
Sam (02:39):
That's my IT background.
I was able to create somethingthat actually worked with how I
do business.
Now, that becomes a little bitawkward as you hire people
because not everybody works thesame way I do and this system is
very customized to me.
Mary (02:52):
Well and that T in there, the thinking as opposed to
feeling,
Sam (02:54):
yeah.
Mary (02:55):
that will help you with that too.
Yeah, because I mean it's aperson looking the process of
the situation as opposed to theemotion of the situation.
Sam (03:04):
So are you saying that T's are better at time management
than F's?
Mary (03:09):
No, I wouldn't say that because it's a different skill,
but the other thing I have to befully candid about is I am not
certified in Myers-Briggs.
I'm certified in a lot ofdifferent assessments, but not
that one.
I just know enough about itbecause I've done it several
times and it's been around for along time.
Sam (03:24):
Right.
Mary (03:24):
So you have to be careful about generalizing because of
one of those letters,
Sam (03:29):
Right.
Mary (03:30):
What someone might be good or bad at.
Same thing with DISC.
People say,"Oh, I don't likeDISC.
I don't want to put someone inone box." Well, it's not one
box.
You have to look at all four ofthe scores in order to get a
better picture of what thatperson is.
Cathy (03:44):
Correct.
Sam (03:44):
It did help me identify those shortcomings when it comes
to time management andproductivity.
Mary (03:48):
And that's perfect.
That's good.
The awareness that your timemanagement isn't what it could
be is the first step.
Cathy (03:56):
Exactly.
Because if you aren't aware oryou aren't really looking and
analyzing that, then you can'tchange it.
Mary (04:04):
Time is finite.
There's only so much of it soyou have to know how you're
using it in order to know if youneed to make some changes.
So I suppose that's a level ofmeasuring,
Sam (04:15):
Yeah.
Mary (04:15):
but it's more of an awareness about where is that
time going, how am I spending itand am I spending it in ways
that is enhancing the quality oflife and my revenue or am I kind
of doing the easiest things orthe things I like best or things
that aren't as high a priorityor have as great an impact on
the business.
It's an awareness that the mostimportant thing that people have
(04:39):
to have is the ability to slowdown and look at it, because you
cannot solve it with speed.
People just think I need to beable to work faster, faster,
faster, faster, and that's notgoing to do it.
You have to slow down, see whatthe problem is.
And then fix the source of theproblem.
Not think you can keep goingfaster.
Sam (04:56):
I say that to these guys all the time.
Collin's over in the cornernodding his head.
I always tell people, it seemscounterintuitive, but when
you're worried about gettingeverything done, you have to
stop and slow down, not gofaster.
Cathy (05:08):
Correct.
Mary (05:08):
Absolutely.
Sam (05:09):
You have got to sure that you're doing things right and
not just doing things fastbecause you'll end up digging
yourself into a hole that way.
Mary (05:14):
And we both know this one.
It's like the hospital triage.
If you get a multiple people whoare injured in the emergency
room at one time, that's whatthe lead physician does.
It's triage, what can only I do,what can someone else handle?
I mean it's all that kind ofthing and you learn to do it
really quickly because thedoctor doesn't take a half an
hour, figure it out.
Sam (05:33):
Right.
Mary (05:33):
With the skill, you figure it out quickly and that's what
we can do too, when you get theskills to see that you're kind
of going off the rails andyou're able to slow yourself
down and look at a process thatwas working for you before, if
you had one, and get back ontrack, that's the key.
Sam (05:49):
But that's easier said than done because what I'm finding is
although I say,"Hey, listen,when you feel like you're not
things done or you feel likeyou're falling behind instead of
rushing through it, stop, comeup with a plan, figure it out,
prioritize." Even though you saythat, it's hard to do because
people, when they want to getthings done, will get into, and
I don't want to call it a panicmode, but something similar to
(06:11):
that where, what did you callthat?
Your something brain.
It's an animal.
Mary (06:16):
Oh, your reptile brain.
Sam (06:18):
Yeah!
Joel (06:18):
They call it your lizard brain.
Sam (06:20):
Your lizard brain!
Mary (06:21):
Yeah, yeah
Sam (06:21):
Your lizard brain says hurry up.
Mary (06:22):
But see that...
Sam (06:23):
and it's hard to fight that.
I mean, how do you tell someonewhen they want to hurry up, not
to?
Mary (06:26):
That's the reason there are coaches, because it's not
easy.
And what you're trying to do iscreate new neural pathways to
create ways of doing things, nothabits, but ways of doing
things.
Sam (06:38):
Oh I was just going to say "Oh like habits!"
Mary (06:39):
Yeah, but...
Sam (06:39):
What's the difference?
Mary (06:40):
Well, the whole habit thing, the 21 days to a new
habit is a myth.
Sam (06:44):
Yeah
Mary (06:44):
It was shifted inaccurately from another
concept for a book that waswritten in 1966 but there is no
science to back up that if youdo something for 21 days, it
will be a new habit.
None.
Zero.
And I never knew anybody whodone it.
So I thought, why are peopleholding themselves to this
standard?
And that's why coaches helppeople create new neural
pathways.
And this isn't a sales situationhere.
(07:05):
It isn't easy to change that.
And you don't just say, Oh, Ishould change that and then
change it.
You have to work on that and youhave to practice it and practice
it and practice it.
Just like any other skill ortalent, you practice it to get
better.
Cathy (07:18):
Right.
And when you say, okay, you'refeeling like you're in that
panic mode, you stop and thenyou're going to go right back to
it.
But the more you tell yourself,okay, stop, rest and then
reanalyze what's going on andwhat should you really be
working on, what is that mostimportant thing?
And just taking the break andwalking into another situation.
Sam (07:38):
Yeah.
Cathy (07:38):
will allow you to then regroup.
But it really is about stoppingand regrouping.
Mary (07:43):
And you can even have a note on your desk that says, am
I freaking out right now?
Or something like that to remindyou just to remember, because as
with most things that you wantto change for the better, you're
usually not refusing to make thechange.
You're not remembering to makethe change.
Sam (08:00):
You know what's funny is I actually think that can work.
I used to work in a really,really, really stressful job and
I was trying to train myself tonot get too upset about things
happening around me.
And I made a post it note that Ikept in my desk drawer and all
it said was,"will this matter infive years?"
Mary (08:17):
Wow.
Sam (08:18):
And anytime I would start to get stressed or upset about
what was happening i n work, Iwould look at that and I w ould
go,"No, really in the grandscheme of things, this isn't
going to matter much." So itwould be kind of a stop, take a
deep breath and slow down kindof a note?
Mary (08:28):
Yeah, exactly.
And the one thing that'scritical about that is like any
thing that sits somewhere longenough, it will disappear.
Not literally, but you justdon't see it anymore.
Sam (08:38):
Yeah.
Mary (08:38):
So having 50 post it notes is probably not a good idea.
Sam (08:42):
Right.
Mary (08:42):
Having one that's reminding you of a key thing
that you're trying to alterright now, try to alter too much
at one time and it also won'tsucceed like the New Year's
Resolution idea.
Sam (08:52):
So now the problem is, which is key, which post it note
do you keep?
If you're going for better timemanagement then it's the stop,
take a breath and think itthrough.
Mary (09:01):
I would say that's a good place to start.
If you're one of those peoplewho tends to ratchet things up,
that would be a good place tostart because all good things
will come from that.
Cathy (09:08):
Well, yeah, and I really think it depends on what is the
problem.
Is it because you're stressedand you're going faster and
faster, or is it that you'reconstantly getting sidetracked
and going in differentdirections?
Sam (09:18):
Well, that's true.
Cathy (09:19):
So it really depends on that note is based on what is
that thing that you need toremind yourself to focus on or
remind yourself to slow down orremind yourself to go in one
direction or not.
Sam (09:30):
I don't see that one as often because I'm a phony J.
I'm a list taker at the office.
So we all have lists of whatwe're going to accomplish today.
In order to get sidetracked, ithas to be something of a high
priority that comes up and werealize, okay, everything's
gotta be put on hold, this isgoing to happen.
But I can remember before,before I learned to be a J that
(09:51):
was a problem and that's exactlythe nature of the P.
Mary (09:53):
Yeah.
Sam (09:55):
Is to start one thing and now I'm in a mood for something
else and now I'm in a mood forsomething else and to get
sidetracked.
Joel (09:59):
Our cell phones and computers have contributed to
that.
Sam (10:02):
Quite a bit.
Mary (10:04):
Oh my gosh! It's crazy!
Joel (10:05):
It's a significant thing.
What's interesting, I approachthis from a different angle
because a lot of my work is withsales teams trying to help them
with time management.
And one of the main things Ialways come back to is you
nurture what you measure and sotry to identify just the key set
of activities that people aredoing that you're going to
measure and track.
And in the case of most salesteams, it's some combination of
say, cold calls face to facecoffees or some other form of
(10:29):
communication with yourprospects.
It'll depend on the nature ofthe sales process.
Sam (10:34):
Oh you mean something that you can control?
Joel (10:34):
Something, yeah.
And you set a goal for each day,I'm going to do 40 of this
activity, five of this activity.
I'm going to make 40 phonecalls, have three coffees and
meet two new people on every dayand track it and document it.
And it has to be a manageableset of things that you're
tracking and documenting.
You get up to 10 or somethingand nobody does it.
It has to cap at three or elsepeople don't do it.
(10:56):
But what are those three mostimportant things?
And it's amazing once you starttracking that what you could get
with it.
I mean, I have one client thatthey have an extended sales
process and when I say extended,I mean nine months.
By the time they acquire a leadto close a deal that's at least
nine months.
And what we've discovered is thekey success factor on a new lead
is whether they have been calledseven times or not.
(11:19):
If they've been called seventimes, they convert.
If they have not been calledseven times, they do not.
And so we measured that.
We found that metric and that isthe key success factor that
leads to success for thisclient.
I mean there's all sorts ofother customer service and
nuance and this and that, butthat is the one metric that
affects whether you secure theclient or you don't, is if
you've called them seven times.
Mary (11:40):
That's a hugely valuable piece of information to have.
Joel (11:44):
But then the other thing within that revenue generating
environment is making surepeople are in the right roles.
If you have somebody who's aHunter type salesperson and you
try to have them also service,it doesn't work.
irI mean they're hungry for thenew, they're constantly looking
for the new, and then they oftenwill drop the ball on that
actual client service.
But also if you take thataccount manager, that client
service expert who really isgreat at nurturing those clients
(12:06):
and taking care of them andtaking care of the client needs
and try to make them a Hunter,that doesn't work either.
It's not the right mindset.
So you have to make sure in thatsales environment you have the
right person in the right role.
Sam (12:15):
I feel like almost everything we talk about goes
back to either hiring the rightperson or a good manager.
It feels like every conversationwe have goes back to do you have
the right person in the rightrole and who's managing that
person?
Joel (12:26):
It always touches on that at some point
Sam (12:27):
What do you...
Mary (12:28):
And certainly if you have the wrong person, if you have a
farmer, is that what they, whatdo they call it?
That's not the Hunter, it's theother one...
Joel (12:33):
There's farmers, hunters and fishers.
Mary (12:35):
The zookeepers or whatever, but if you have that
person in a sales role, theirtime management is probably
going to be very poor becausereally good salespeople are very
resourceful.
They use their time efficientlybecause they know it's going to
impact the bottom line and it'sa different brain for someone
who's working more on notnurturing the sales
relationship, but actually theclient relationship as they're
(12:58):
doing the work, they're going tohave a different sense of
urgency than a sales personwould.
Joel (13:04):
Yeah.
In my worldview, they're allsales in one form or another,
but people conflate exactly whatthe roles are.
I mean there's sales in terms ofbusiness development, but
there's also sales in terms ofaccount management.
I mean they're still selling,they're just a different steps
in a sales process.
Mary (13:17):
That's a good point.
Joel (13:17):
and the skills are very different.
If you've got people swapped inthose, it's not good for
anybody.
Cathy (13:22):
Yeah.
I think assessments really, arereally huge when you're talking
about that aspect of hiringbecause it is important to have
them in the right roles.
Sam (13:33):
But sometimes people are just in their job and they have
responsibilities that this ispart of the job and they just
need to be able to do it.
And what you're saying isabsolutely true.
The things that tend to not getdone, I couldn't find time for
it.
I couldn't squeeze it in.
There was some reason why thiscouldn't happen is typically the
thing that you enjoy doing theleast.
Joel (13:54):
Right.
Sam (13:55):
And typically you enjoy doing it the least because it's
not a natural ability or, orsomething like that.
So as a manager, aside fromsaying, okay, you don't really
like doing it, you're notgetting it done, so let's just
take it off your plate.
Sometimes that's not an option.
Mary (14:08):
Right.
Last week I did a program for aroom full of attorneys and it
was called Carving Out Time forBusiness Development because
they don't just have a salesforce in the law firm.
All the people who are attorneysare supposed to be networking
and building relationships andso on.
And the truth is, one of thethings that's going to make it
tough is they don't like it.
They don't want to do it.
Sam (14:27):
Right.
Mary (14:27):
So then it was, if they still want them to do it, they
need to have some kind ofmeasures so that they know if
they're successful or not.
Are you meeting what thecompany's expecting if it's not
closed business, is it, have youmet five new people who are
potential prospects?
And then it's finding the thingthat you hate the least.
Perhaps maybe you would prefertaking someone out for a beer
(14:51):
rather than going to a play orsomething like that.
Figure out or maybe you'rebetter at sending articles that
you know someone likes orsending notes.
Sam (15:00):
So it's not about the specific action that you should
be taking, but just the goal youshould be achieving and then
finding a more palatable way toachieve that.
Mary (15:09):
Y es, try to align with the thing, and again, if you
just hate that but you stillhave to do it,
Sam (15:12):
That makes a lot of sense.
Mary (15:12):
then you got to do it, but find the way to do it the least
painful way.
Sam (15:15):
It's seems like you should be able to find a palatable way
to accomplish anything if youreally put your mind to it.
Like you said, having a beerinstead of going to a play.
How do you argue with having abeer with someone?
Cathy (15:26):
Well, if you don't drink I guess!
Mary (15:29):
Or because that's usually an after work activity and
maybe.
Sam (15:31):
I see.
Mary (15:31):
you're just the kind of person who, you're more of an
introverted person.
Sam (15:34):
Right
Mary (15:34):
So once you're done with the day, you really want to go
home.
You really want to be with yourfamily or alone in your house.
Sam (15:39):
So do lunch, meet for coffee or...
Mary (15:41):
Exactly, exactly
Joel (15:43):
I tend to do mid morning coffees, early morning, mid
morning or lunches, late daycoffees.
But once it's afternoon, thekids are off school, I want to
be home with my kids.
So,
Cathy (15:51):
So, and I think it comes back to what we had talked about
earlier, M yers-Briggs, DISC,whatever it is, it's really
understanding yourself andknowing what works for you.
B ut just because it works forme doesn't mean it works for
Mary,
Mary (16:04):
Right.
Cathy (16:04):
It doesn't mean it works for you.
Sam (16:05):
I think that's easier said than done though.
I mean, it's easy to say, knowyourself and know what works for
you.
But if I want to manage my timebetter, I said I'm not a list
keeper, and keeping a list mighthelp.
But what about people that don'tknow?
Mary (16:18):
They hire people like me and Cathy.
Sam (16:20):
Bring in an expert, bring in an expert to help.
Mary (16:22):
Yeah you do, I mean for Joel, they don't know why
they're not getting the revenuesand it's because they haven't
looked at the fact that theydon't have a process, that
everybody's just kind of outthere doing stuff,
Sam (16:33):
Right.
Mary (16:33):
but it's not measurable and it's not getting results.
So they need to hire Joel to getthem in there.
The expertise to say, here'swhat you're missing.
Someone who can see it from theoutside.
That's the value.
It could be a coach, it could beone of the big round table kind
of groups where you're talkingto other business owners who are
similar to you but in differentindustries.
(16:53):
There's a lot of different waysto get that, but you need
someone looking at you from theoutside to see what you can't
see.
Joel (17:00):
One solution I've seen done in the sales end of things
I've not personally implemented,but waiting for the right
opportunity.
Now with the caveat that everysales process is different,
every target market is differentand so there's a nuance to that.
There are a core set of salesprocesses.
I mean between phone calls,emails, if it's a face to face
thing, coffees, lunches,attending networking events, all
the sales activities you do.
(17:21):
If you track them long enough,you can assign point values to
each one of these.
So let's say, arbitrarily,meeting a new person and getting
a new contact is worth fivepoints.
Placing a cold call is worthhalf a point.
Having a coffee with somebody isworth four points, something
along those lines.
Sam (17:39):
Six if it's decaf.
Joel (17:39):
There you go.
Submitting a proposal is worth10 points and over the course of
a week have the person have agoal of achieving a hundred
points and they can mix it uphowever they want.
Maybe the person really likescold calls and so they do that
if they track with the whatthey're doing they could get a
hundred points.
Sam (17:54):
See my thought on that is, is that a distraction?
Because I feel like peopleshould manage their time based
on having a good understandingof the priorities and how to do
things, and I'm afraid thatincorporating a point system is
going to kind of muddy thewaters a little bit.
Joel (18:09):
Well again, I'm talking about sales in specific as
opposed to somebody who's moreof an operational capacity.
But I mean the goal is to getpeople doing the sales oriented
activities as opposed to gettingdistracted by any number of
other things they could be doingthat don't lead to results.
Mary (18:22):
Making file folders or something.
Cathy (18:24):
Right.
So it's really about, okay,here's the goal to get so many
sales or whatever.
But that's just one way ofgiving someone a method to get
to the goal because it's allabout the method to get that
outcome you want.
Sam (18:40):
And it sounds like the method really depends on the
person.
Cathy (18:42):
Correct.
Sam (18:43):
We can't give the golden method that's going to work.
Cathy (18:45):
Correct.
Sam (18:45):
I think I found what works for me and what works for me,
seems to work for Collin, but...
Mary (18:50):
And Joel, you probably don't recommend a point system
to every one of your clients.
Joel (18:53):
No.
Mary (18:53):
I mean it might make sense for one, but it doesn't make
sense for another.
Joel (18:56):
And honestly I'm familiar with that.
I've never implemented thatbecause I haven't had the client
that it fit with.
I hope it comes!
Mary (19:01):
It's in your toolbox.
Joel (19:02):
Yeah, it's there, it's waiting.
Sam (19:03):
Do we have anybody that's got a horror story having to do
with time management?
Mary (19:08):
I will say that this was just,
Sam (19:09):
You don't have to mention any names.
Mary (19:10):
I won't mention any names, but this was some time ago and I
had an appointment with a clientwho did not show up and.
Sam (19:19):
because they didn't, they couldn't find the time.
Mary (19:20):
Well, I, the call that I had to make was, I'm very sorry
but I'm going to have to chargeyou for this appointment even
though you slept through it andit was in the middle of the day.
Sam (19:31):
Did they say they didn't come because they overslept or,
Mary (19:33):
yes.
Well, no, because they wereasleep.
I mean it was a, it was like oneo'clock in the afternoon
appointment,
Sam (19:39):
They just said they were asleep...
huh.
Mary (19:39):
so I had to charge them even though they slept through
it, because one of the things isit was a client, it wasn't a
prospect, it was someone.
Sam (19:46):
Right.
Mary (19:46):
and I'm training them to use their time more efficiently
and sleeping in the middle ofthe day.
Avoiding what you should bedoing is not a good thing to be
doing.
So it was a tough call, but italso got a message across that
this is, there's a better way.
Sam (20:02):
I think we stumbled onto a new product.
You need to make like subliminalrecordings on better time
management that people canlisten to in their sleep.
Mary (20:10):
In there sleep yeah! They're probably out there.
Who knows?
Christine (20:12):
Thanks for listening to super manager by CN Video
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Sam (00:13):
Okay, so this week we're here talking about better time
management and I have my supertime managing friends with me
today.
I've got...
Joel (00:21):
Joel Emery with Ignite Strategies.
I serve as a sales systemsarchitect for small and midsize
businesses.
Cathy (00:26):
Cathy Sexton, The Productivity Experts and I work
with small business owners whoare overwhelmed, overworked and
underpaid.
Mary (00:33):
And Mary Kutheis with MCK Coaching and Training.
I am a business coach andconfidante.
Sam (00:37):
And I am Samantha Naes with CN Video.
We do corporate videoproduction.
I did a while ago, I guess theMyers Briggs, those personality
tests.
Mary (00:48):
Mhm, sure!
Sam (00:48):
and I am, or at least I was at the time, I think you are for
life, but I'm an ENTP.
Mary (00:52):
Okay.
Sam (00:53):
You're nodding kind of like you, you know what that means.
Mary (00:55):
Well I'm thinking about what that, yeah...
Sam (00:57):
The"P" part of that...
Mary (00:59):
Yeah.
Sam (00:59):
Is counterproductive when it comes to the work environment
because these are you,r off thecuff.
Mary (01:04):
Idea generators.
Sam (01:05):
On the fly...Yeah
Mary (01:05):
Let's do it a different way!
Sam (01:05):
And so I found in order to better manage my time at work,
the opposite of a P is a J andyour J's are your list keepers.
I keep a list of everything, Icheck things off of the list.
Mary (01:19):
Right.
Sam (01:19):
And so I had to become a J in the office just to survive,
because otherwise I was doing alittle of this, a little of that
and nothing was getting done.
I had a hundred things halfwaydone.
Mary (01:30):
That was a really good observation.
Sam (01:31):
Nothing was getting done, and I found that that if I keep
a list of everything, then I cantake it a step further.
First of all, I have much lesstime going, okay, so what now?
What should I work on now?
Because the list, I can lookthrough the list.
In the mornings, I can look atit and say, well, I'm going to
need so-and-so's input on that.
(01:52):
So I better send them a messageright away.
So I give them time to respondwhile I work on this, this and
this.
And then if I get thesebatteries charging, they can be
charging while I'm creating thisproduction plan.
And I'm able to kind of managetime a little bit better.
I think I get by and I thinkpretending to be a J and making
lists help a lot.
Joel (02:10):
One thing I want to mention about that though,
you're also, Sam, one of thefirst people I've ever met who
successfully implemented digitalproject management system for
their company.
You have all of your projectsrunning through an automated
system that helps you be moreefficient and do all of those
things.
So whether that is a weakness asyou articulated it initially or
(02:30):
a strength now in terms of howyou've responded to it though, I
don't know anybody who at thatstage in development has
successfully implemented one.
Sam (02:39):
That's my IT background.
I was able to create somethingthat actually worked with how I
do business.
Now, that becomes a little bitawkward as you hire people
because not everybody works thesame way I do and this system is
very customized to me.
Mary (02:52):
Well and that T in there, the thinking as opposed to
feeling,
Sam (02:54):
yeah.
Mary (02:55):
that will help you with that too.
Yeah, because I mean it's aperson looking the process of
the situation as opposed to theemotion of the situation.
Sam (03:04):
So are you saying that T's are better at time management
than F's?
Mary (03:09):
No, I wouldn't say that because it's a different skill,
but the other thing I have to befully candid about is I am not
certified in Myers-Briggs.
I'm certified in a lot ofdifferent assessments, but not
that one.
I just know enough about itbecause I've done it several
times and it's been around for along time.
Sam (03:24):
Right.
Mary (03:24):
So you have to be careful about generalizing because of
one of those letters,
Sam (03:29):
Right.
Mary (03:30):
What someone might be good or bad at.
Same thing with DISC.
People say,"Oh, I don't likeDISC.
I don't want to put someone inone box." Well, it's not one
box.
You have to look at all four ofthe scores in order to get a
better picture of what thatperson is.
Cathy (03:44):
Correct.
Sam (03:44):
It did help me identify those shortcomings when it comes
to time management andproductivity.
Mary (03:48):
And that's perfect.
That's good.
The awareness that your timemanagement isn't what it could
be is the first step.
Cathy (03:56):
Exactly.
Because if you aren't aware oryou aren't really looking and
analyzing that, then you can'tchange it.
Mary (04:04):
Time is finite.
There's only so much of it soyou have to know how you're
using it in order to know if youneed to make some changes.
So I suppose that's a level ofmeasuring,
Sam (04:15):
Yeah.
Mary (04:15):
but it's more of an awareness about where is that
time going, how am I spending itand am I spending it in ways
that is enhancing the quality oflife and my revenue or am I kind
of doing the easiest things orthe things I like best or things
that aren't as high a priorityor have as great an impact on
the business.
It's an awareness that the mostimportant thing that people have
(04:39):
to have is the ability to slowdown and look at it, because you
cannot solve it with speed.
People just think I need to beable to work faster, faster,
faster, faster, and that's notgoing to do it.
You have to slow down, see whatthe problem is.
And then fix the source of theproblem.
Not think you can keep goingfaster.
Sam (04:56):
I say that to these guys all the time.
Collin's over in the cornernodding his head.
I always tell people, it seemscounterintuitive, but when
you're worried about gettingeverything done, you have to
stop and slow down, not gofaster.
Cathy (05:08):
Correct.
Mary (05:08):
Absolutely.
Sam (05:09):
You have got to sure that you're doing things right and
not just doing things fastbecause you'll end up digging
yourself into a hole that way.
Mary (05:14):
And we both know this one.
It's like the hospital triage.
If you get a multiple people whoare injured in the emergency
room at one time, that's whatthe lead physician does.
It's triage, what can only I do,what can someone else handle?
I mean it's all that kind ofthing and you learn to do it
really quickly because thedoctor doesn't take a half an
hour, figure it out.
Sam (05:33):
Right.
Mary (05:33):
With the skill, you figure it out quickly and that's what
we can do too, when you get theskills to see that you're kind
of going off the rails andyou're able to slow yourself
down and look at a process thatwas working for you before, if
you had one, and get back ontrack, that's the key.
Sam (05:49):
But that's easier said than done because what I'm finding is
although I say,"Hey, listen,when you feel like you're not
things done or you feel likeyou're falling behind instead of
rushing through it, stop, comeup with a plan, figure it out,
prioritize." Even though you saythat, it's hard to do because
people, when they want to getthings done, will get into, and
I don't want to call it a panicmode, but something similar to
(06:11):
that where, what did you callthat?
Your something brain.
It's an animal.
Mary (06:16):
Oh, your reptile brain.
Sam (06:18):
Yeah!
Joel (06:18):
They call it your lizard brain.
Sam (06:20):
Your lizard brain!
Mary (06:21):
Yeah, yeah
Sam (06:21):
Your lizard brain says hurry up.
Mary (06:22):
But see that...
Sam (06:23):
and it's hard to fight that.
I mean, how do you tell someonewhen they want to hurry up, not
to?
Mary (06:26):
That's the reason there are coaches, because it's not
easy.
And what you're trying to do iscreate new neural pathways to
create ways of doing things, nothabits, but ways of doing
things.
Sam (06:38):
Oh I was just going to say "Oh like habits!"
Mary (06:39):
Yeah, but...
Sam (06:39):
What's the difference?
Mary (06:40):
Well, the whole habit thing, the 21 days to a new
habit is a myth.
Sam (06:44):
Yeah
Mary (06:44):
It was shifted inaccurately from another
concept for a book that waswritten in 1966 but there is no
science to back up that if youdo something for 21 days, it
will be a new habit.
None.
Zero.
And I never knew anybody whodone it.
So I thought, why are peopleholding themselves to this
standard?
And that's why coaches helppeople create new neural
pathways.
And this isn't a sales situationhere.
(07:05):
It isn't easy to change that.
And you don't just say, Oh, Ishould change that and then
change it.
You have to work on that and youhave to practice it and practice
it and practice it.
Just like any other skill ortalent, you practice it to get
better.
Cathy (07:18):
Right.
And when you say, okay, you'refeeling like you're in that
panic mode, you stop and thenyou're going to go right back to
it.
But the more you tell yourself,okay, stop, rest and then
reanalyze what's going on andwhat should you really be
working on, what is that mostimportant thing?
And just taking the break andwalking into another situation.
Sam (07:38):
Yeah.
Cathy (07:38):
will allow you to then regroup.
But it really is about stoppingand regrouping.
Mary (07:43):
And you can even have a note on your desk that says, am
I freaking out right now?
Or something like that to remindyou just to remember, because as
with most things that you wantto change for the better, you're
usually not refusing to make thechange.
You're not remembering to makethe change.
Sam (08:00):
You know what's funny is I actually think that can work.
I used to work in a really,really, really stressful job and
I was trying to train myself tonot get too upset about things
happening around me.
And I made a post it note that Ikept in my desk drawer and all
it said was,"will this matter infive years?"
Mary (08:17):
Wow.
Sam (08:18):
And anytime I would start to get stressed or upset about
what was happening i n work, Iwould look at that and I w ould
go,"No, really in the grandscheme of things, this isn't
going to matter much." So itwould be kind of a stop, take a
deep breath and slow down kindof a note?
Mary (08:28):
Yeah, exactly.
And the one thing that'scritical about that is like any
thing that sits somewhere longenough, it will disappear.
Not literally, but you justdon't see it anymore.
Sam (08:38):
Yeah.
Mary (08:38):
So having 50 post it notes is probably not a good idea.
Sam (08:42):
Right.
Mary (08:42):
Having one that's reminding you of a key thing
that you're trying to alterright now, try to alter too much
at one time and it also won'tsucceed like the New Year's
Resolution idea.
Sam (08:52):
So now the problem is, which is key, which post it note
do you keep?
If you're going for better timemanagement then it's the stop,
take a breath and think itthrough.
Mary (09:01):
I would say that's a good place to start.
If you're one of those peoplewho tends to ratchet things up,
that would be a good place tostart because all good things
will come from that.
Cathy (09:08):
Well, yeah, and I really think it depends on what is the
problem.
Is it because you're stressedand you're going faster and
faster, or is it that you'reconstantly getting sidetracked
and going in differentdirections?
Sam (09:18):
Well, that's true.
Cathy (09:19):
So it really depends on that note is based on what is
that thing that you need toremind yourself to focus on or
remind yourself to slow down orremind yourself to go in one
direction or not.
Sam (09:30):
I don't see that one as often because I'm a phony J.
I'm a list taker at the office.
So we all have lists of whatwe're going to accomplish today.
In order to get sidetracked, ithas to be something of a high
priority that comes up and werealize, okay, everything's
gotta be put on hold, this isgoing to happen.
But I can remember before,before I learned to be a J that
(09:51):
was a problem and that's exactlythe nature of the P.
Mary (09:53):
Yeah.
Sam (09:55):
Is to start one thing and now I'm in a mood for something
else and now I'm in a mood forsomething else and to get
sidetracked.
Joel (09:59):
Our cell phones and computers have contributed to
that.
Sam (10:02):
Quite a bit.
Mary (10:04):
Oh my gosh! It's crazy!
Joel (10:05):
It's a significant thing.
What's interesting, I approachthis from a different angle
because a lot of my work is withsales teams trying to help them
with time management.
And one of the main things Ialways come back to is you
nurture what you measure and sotry to identify just the key set
of activities that people aredoing that you're going to
measure and track.
And in the case of most salesteams, it's some combination of
say, cold calls face to facecoffees or some other form of
(10:29):
communication with yourprospects.
It'll depend on the nature ofthe sales process.
Sam (10:34):
Oh you mean something that you can control?
Joel (10:34):
Something, yeah.
And you set a goal for each day,I'm going to do 40 of this
activity, five of this activity.
I'm going to make 40 phonecalls, have three coffees and
meet two new people on every dayand track it and document it.
And it has to be a manageableset of things that you're
tracking and documenting.
You get up to 10 or somethingand nobody does it.
It has to cap at three or elsepeople don't do it.
(10:56):
But what are those three mostimportant things?
And it's amazing once you starttracking that what you could get
with it.
I mean, I have one client thatthey have an extended sales
process and when I say extended,I mean nine months.
By the time they acquire a leadto close a deal that's at least
nine months.
And what we've discovered is thekey success factor on a new lead
is whether they have been calledseven times or not.
(11:19):
If they've been called seventimes, they convert.
If they have not been calledseven times, they do not.
And so we measured that.
We found that metric and that isthe key success factor that
leads to success for thisclient.
I mean there's all sorts ofother customer service and
nuance and this and that, butthat is the one metric that
affects whether you secure theclient or you don't, is if
you've called them seven times.
Mary (11:40):
That's a hugely valuable piece of information to have.
Joel (11:44):
But then the other thing within that revenue generating
environment is making surepeople are in the right roles.
If you have somebody who's aHunter type salesperson and you
try to have them also service,it doesn't work.
irI mean they're hungry for thenew, they're constantly looking
for the new, and then they oftenwill drop the ball on that
actual client service.
But also if you take thataccount manager, that client
service expert who really isgreat at nurturing those clients
(12:06):
and taking care of them andtaking care of the client needs
and try to make them a Hunter,that doesn't work either.
It's not the right mindset.
So you have to make sure in thatsales environment you have the
right person in the right role.
Sam (12:15):
I feel like almost everything we talk about goes
back to either hiring the rightperson or a good manager.
It feels like every conversationwe have goes back to do you have
the right person in the rightrole and who's managing that
person?
Joel (12:26):
It always touches on that at some point
Sam (12:27):
What do you...
Mary (12:28):
And certainly if you have the wrong person, if you have a
farmer, is that what they, whatdo they call it?
That's not the Hunter, it's theother one...
Joel (12:33):
There's farmers, hunters and fishers.
Mary (12:35):
The zookeepers or whatever, but if you have that
person in a sales role, theirtime management is probably
going to be very poor becausereally good salespeople are very
resourceful.
They use their time efficientlybecause they know it's going to
impact the bottom line and it'sa different brain for someone
who's working more on notnurturing the sales
relationship, but actually theclient relationship as they're
(12:58):
doing the work, they're going tohave a different sense of
urgency than a sales personwould.
Joel (13:04):
Yeah.
In my worldview, they're allsales in one form or another,
but people conflate exactly whatthe roles are.
I mean there's sales in terms ofbusiness development, but
there's also sales in terms ofaccount management.
I mean they're still selling,they're just a different steps
in a sales process.
Mary (13:17):
That's a good point.
Joel (13:17):
and the skills are very different.
If you've got people swapped inthose, it's not good for
anybody.
Cathy (13:22):
Yeah.
I think assessments really, arereally huge when you're talking
about that aspect of hiringbecause it is important to have
them in the right roles.
Sam (13:33):
But sometimes people are just in their job and they have
responsibilities that this ispart of the job and they just
need to be able to do it.
And what you're saying isabsolutely true.
The things that tend to not getdone, I couldn't find time for
it.
I couldn't squeeze it in.
There was some reason why thiscouldn't happen is typically the
thing that you enjoy doing theleast.
Joel (13:54):
Right.
Sam (13:55):
And typically you enjoy doing it the least because it's
not a natural ability or, orsomething like that.
So as a manager, aside fromsaying, okay, you don't really
like doing it, you're notgetting it done, so let's just
take it off your plate.
Sometimes that's not an option.
Mary (14:08):
Right.
Last week I did a program for aroom full of attorneys and it
was called Carving Out Time forBusiness Development because
they don't just have a salesforce in the law firm.
All the people who are attorneysare supposed to be networking
and building relationships andso on.
And the truth is, one of thethings that's going to make it
tough is they don't like it.
They don't want to do it.
Sam (14:27):
Right.
Mary (14:27):
So then it was, if they still want them to do it, they
need to have some kind ofmeasures so that they know if
they're successful or not.
Are you meeting what thecompany's expecting if it's not
closed business, is it, have youmet five new people who are
potential prospects?
And then it's finding the thingthat you hate the least.
Perhaps maybe you would prefertaking someone out for a beer
(14:51):
rather than going to a play orsomething like that.
Figure out or maybe you'rebetter at sending articles that
you know someone likes orsending notes.
Sam (15:00):
So it's not about the specific action that you should
be taking, but just the goal youshould be achieving and then
finding a more palatable way toachieve that.
Mary (15:09):
Y es, try to align with the thing, and again, if you
just hate that but you stillhave to do it,
Sam (15:12):
That makes a lot of sense.
Mary (15:12):
then you got to do it, but find the way to do it the least
painful way.
Sam (15:15):
It's seems like you should be able to find a palatable way
to accomplish anything if youreally put your mind to it.
Like you said, having a beerinstead of going to a play.
How do you argue with having abeer with someone?
Cathy (15:26):
Well, if you don't drink I guess!
Mary (15:29):
Or because that's usually an after work activity and
maybe.
Sam (15:31):
I see.
Mary (15:31):
you're just the kind of person who, you're more of an
introverted person.
Sam (15:34):
Right
Mary (15:34):
So once you're done with the day, you really want to go
home.
You really want to be with yourfamily or alone in your house.
Sam (15:39):
So do lunch, meet for coffee or...
Mary (15:41):
Exactly, exactly
Joel (15:43):
I tend to do mid morning coffees, early morning, mid
morning or lunches, late daycoffees.
But once it's afternoon, thekids are off school, I want to
be home with my kids.
So,
Cathy (15:51):
So, and I think it comes back to what we had talked about
earlier, M yers-Briggs, DISC,whatever it is, it's really
understanding yourself andknowing what works for you.
B ut just because it works forme doesn't mean it works for
Mary,
Mary (16:04):
Right.
Cathy (16:04):
It doesn't mean it works for you.
Sam (16:05):
I think that's easier said than done though.
I mean, it's easy to say, knowyourself and know what works for
you.
But if I want to manage my timebetter, I said I'm not a list
keeper, and keeping a list mighthelp.
But what about people that don'tknow?
Mary (16:18):
They hire people like me and Cathy.
Sam (16:20):
Bring in an expert, bring in an expert to help.
Mary (16:22):
Yeah you do, I mean for Joel, they don't know why
they're not getting the revenuesand it's because they haven't
looked at the fact that theydon't have a process, that
everybody's just kind of outthere doing stuff,
Sam (16:33):
Right.
Mary (16:33):
but it's not measurable and it's not getting results.
So they need to hire Joel to getthem in there.
The expertise to say, here'swhat you're missing.
Someone who can see it from theoutside.
That's the value.
It could be a coach, it could beone of the big round table kind
of groups where you're talkingto other business owners who are
similar to you but in differentindustries.
(16:53):
There's a lot of different waysto get that, but you need
someone looking at you from theoutside to see what you can't
see.
Joel (17:00):
One solution I've seen done in the sales end of things
I've not personally implemented,but waiting for the right
opportunity.
Now with the caveat that everysales process is different,
every target market is differentand so there's a nuance to that.
There are a core set of salesprocesses.
I mean between phone calls,emails, if it's a face to face
thing, coffees, lunches,attending networking events, all
the sales activities you do.
(17:21):
If you track them long enough,you can assign point values to
each one of these.
So let's say, arbitrarily,meeting a new person and getting
a new contact is worth fivepoints.
Placing a cold call is worthhalf a point.
Having a coffee with somebody isworth four points, something
along those lines.
Sam (17:39):
Six if it's decaf.
Joel (17:39):
There you go.
Submitting a proposal is worth10 points and over the course of
a week have the person have agoal of achieving a hundred
points and they can mix it uphowever they want.
Maybe the person really likescold calls and so they do that
if they track with the whatthey're doing they could get a
hundred points.
Sam (17:54):
See my thought on that is, is that a distraction?
Because I feel like peopleshould manage their time based
on having a good understandingof the priorities and how to do
things, and I'm afraid thatincorporating a point system is
going to kind of muddy thewaters a little bit.
Joel (18:09):
Well again, I'm talking about sales in specific as
opposed to somebody who's moreof an operational capacity.
But I mean the goal is to getpeople doing the sales oriented
activities as opposed to gettingdistracted by any number of
other things they could be doingthat don't lead to results.
Mary (18:22):
Making file folders or something.
Cathy (18:24):
Right.
So it's really about, okay,here's the goal to get so many
sales or whatever.
But that's just one way ofgiving someone a method to get
to the goal because it's allabout the method to get that
outcome you want.
Sam (18:40):
And it sounds like the method really depends on the
person.
Cathy (18:42):
Correct.
Sam (18:43):
We can't give the golden method that's going to work.
Cathy (18:45):
Correct.
Sam (18:45):
I think I found what works for me and what works for me,
seems to work for Collin, but...
Mary (18:50):
And Joel, you probably don't recommend a point system
to every one of your clients.
Joel (18:53):
No.
Mary (18:53):
I mean it might make sense for one, but it doesn't make
sense for another.
Joel (18:56):
And honestly I'm familiar with that.
I've never implemented thatbecause I haven't had the client
that it fit with.
I hope it comes!
Mary (19:01):
It's in your toolbox.
Joel (19:02):
Yeah, it's there, it's waiting.
Sam (19:03):
Do we have anybody that's got a horror story having to do
with time management?
Mary (19:08):
I will say that this was just,
Sam (19:09):
You don't have to mention any names.
Mary (19:10):
I won't mention any names, but this was some time ago and I
had an appointment with a clientwho did not show up and.
Sam (19:19):
because they didn't, they couldn't find the time.
Mary (19:20):
Well, I, the call that I had to make was, I'm very sorry
but I'm going to have to chargeyou for this appointment even
though you slept through it andit was in the middle of the day.
Sam (19:31):
Did they say they didn't come because they overslept or,
Mary (19:33):
yes.
Well, no, because they wereasleep.
I mean it was a, it was like oneo'clock in the afternoon
appointment,
Sam (19:39):
They just said they were asleep...
huh.
Mary (19:39):
so I had to charge them even though they slept through
it, because one of the things isit was a client, it wasn't a
prospect, it was someone.
Sam (19:46):
Right.
Mary (19:46):
and I'm training them to use their time more efficiently
and sleeping in the middle ofthe day.
Avoiding what you should bedoing is not a good thing to be
doing.
So it was a tough call, but italso got a message across that
this is, there's a better way.
Sam (20:02):
I think we stumbled onto a new product.
You need to make like subliminalrecordings on better time
management that people canlisten to in their sleep.
Mary (20:10):
In there sleep yeah! They're probably out there.
Who knows?
Christine (20:12):
Thanks for listening to super manager by CN Video
Production.
Visit our website cn-video.comfor additional episodes and lots
of super manager resources, orgive us a call at(314) VIDEO ME.
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!