December 9, 2019 • 14 mins
Is the solution to "shame and blame?" Or is there another approach that produces more tangible results in the work environment? Has progress even been made at all on the issue over the last several decades? This week, our super panel discusses what they believe the solution is to issues of gender bias in the work place in the finale of our three part series on Equal Pay and Gender Bias.
Listen in like a super equal fly on the wall to this week's discussion with:
Samantha Naes - CN Video Production (Corporate Video Production)
Victoria Wors - Wors Consulting (HR Services)
Joel Emery - Ignite Strategies (Sales Systems)
Amy Narishkin - Empowering Partners (HR Services)
Gerald Richardson - Evans & Dixon, LLC. (Legal Services)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Christine (00:02):
You're listening to SuperManager, the podcast for
people who manage people andbusiness.
With ideas, trends, and expertinterviews to help you be a
super manager.
Amy (00:13):
Okay, so welcome back to part three of our super manager
conversation about equal pay andgender bias.
And in this episode we're goingto go around the room and talk
about some solutions and you'regoing to hear from my totally
equal super friends.
Gerry (00:24):
I'm Gerry Richardson, I'm a lawyer at Evans and Dixon.
I work with employers.
I h elp them manage theirrelationships through the
courtship, the marriage and thedivorce.
Joel (00:34):
Joel Emery with Ignite Strategies.
I serve as a sales systemsarchitect for small and midsize
businesses.
Vicky (00:39):
Vicky Wors, Wors consulting.
I am a human resourcesconsultant for small to midsize
businesses, helping themmaneuver through some of the
uncomfortable issues they face.
Amy (00:50):
I'm Amy Narishkin.
I'm a cultural intelligencestrategist with empowering
partners, which is actually mybusiness.
So I'm a consultant as well andI help organizations reach
broader markets by hiring peoplethat they think are different.
And I am Samantha Naes with CNvideo.
We do corporate videoproduction.
Amy, what do you feel needs tochange?
(01:10):
What do you feel is thesolution?
For me, it always goes back toinvisibility.
When Natalie was in the room,she was talking about her
husband being referred toinstead of her expertise.
So just that bias shows up thatwomen's voices and opinions
aren't as valuable and that'swhere we still are as a society.
(01:34):
So one of the statistics thatmight be helpful in order for
there to be true parody in aroom, for example, a corporate
meeting for there to be parodyin the room, women need to make
up 70% a super majority in theroom for women's voices to be
considered as valuable.
So there still is that bias.
(01:54):
So what she experienced, I guessat that trade show where her
husband was perceived as theexpert instead of her, she was
the expert in that case.
So that's just the reality thatwe're dealing with right now.
And I'm not sure it's any oneperson's fault, it's just a lack
of awareness that there's anopportunity to make sure that
women's voices are heard in theroom.
(02:15):
And that's valuable for acompany too, because whenever
you have anybody in anorganization feeling minimized,
sidelined, or silenced, that'sgoing to stifle productivity,
innovation, profit in anyorganization.
So I think it's making sure thatpeople feel heard and valued and
seen both men and women.
Sam (02:36):
And here I interrupt you, I'm, I'm part of the statistic.
Vicky (02:40):
Well actually, we in the United States are a Judeo
Christian country, and if somany people adhere to biblical
teachings, you have a lot of ourreligious instruction is by
males.
And in fact, through thestructure of that particular
(03:01):
religion or belief pattern,whatever, women cannot hold a
role as teacher, leader, pastor,whatever.
So you start from some of thevery, very kernel of a person's
life that it's all the way backto our socialization as human
(03:26):
beings.
Okay.
And what happens is you see, andyou begin to say, well, I need
to have a man that's in thisrole to tell me this because
this woman, she didn't knowanything.
Okay.
All right.
Yeah.
It permeates our society.
It permeates throughout thecountry.
(03:47):
I purposely, I just like, I justgot in from a doctor's
appointment.
I purposely do not go to maledoctors anymore.
Amy (03:56):
Hmm.
Vicky (03:57):
Why would you take a car into a mechanic that doesn't
know how to drive?
So what?
I've got totally different thanwhat that male doctor has.
Okay, so it's,
Sam (04:11):
Hey, we chuckle, but for the longest time they were
talking about medications.
Painkillers were only tested towork for men.
Vicky (04:17):
Yes.
Amy (04:18):
It's still happening.
Sam (04:19):
It's still happening.
Amy (04:19):
It's still happening.
The average time for a woman inthe ER...
Gerry (04:21):
for rats, do they work for rats?
It's.
Sam (04:29):
male rats
Vicky (04:33):
It's just throughout our society and then to change
horses so to speak.
As you become gainfully employedin the labor market, you're very
basic who you are does notchange at that point.
It certainly does take apurposeful change.
Amy (04:52):
Right?
Vicky (04:52):
Because of who you are.
Just like my doctor selection,I'm not going to fall into that
trap.
Okay.
Gerry (05:01):
Now, Vicky, you've made that conscious decision with
doctors since about when
Vicky (05:06):
I actually start out with when I married my husband.
Gerry (05:10):
Is he a doctor?
Vicky (05:11):
No, no.
He just had issues.
But anyway, that's anotherpodcast.
Gerry (05:17):
This is pertinent to the topic for about how long have
you been in making that?
Vicky (05:22):
Let's see, how old am I?
Probably half a century.
Okay, really
Gerry (05:27):
Because what you find though was there was a point in
time where there weren't femaledoctors and that the,
Vicky (05:35):
I'm not that old.
Gerry (05:35):
Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa.
I'm a lawyer and I, and I cantell you law school, I can tell
you better than medical school.
But I think they were on similarpatterns and there weren't
women.
The medical schools being saidthey weren't going.
What they were probably gettingthe women that had the aptitude
were probably being steered inthe nursing school instead.
Okay.
(05:56):
But in any case, the medicalschools change these male
dominated medical schoolschanged., They were forced to do
so by the federal government intitle 9.
Okay.
But we'll put that aside.
Since about 1970 there are nowmany, many more females in
medical school.
I would venture a guess and it'sonly a guess cause I haven't
(06:18):
looked at the statistics, butthere's probably at least half
of the enrollment in medicalschools is female.
So there are many more choicesthan there used to be.
in law school, it's probablyslightly more female than male.
Amy (06:36):
We know that more women are going to college now than men.
Gerry (06:42):
That's by a fairly big percentage, at least my older
daughter, where she graduatedfrom, it was like 62% female,
but it was a coed schoolforever.
Sam (06:53):
Joel, what do you feel is the solution to the problem?
Joel (06:55):
I wanted to weigh in on a couple of things, so much of
this is unconscious.
It's something that's ingrainedin people's minds.
It's preexisting, it'sunconscious.
Sam (07:04):
And not just in the office, but parents and siblings.
Joel (07:08):
I mean, whether for example, my son's teacher at
daycare told him all littleboys, like their moms more than
their dads.
And so he decided, he liked hismom more than his dads.
That's the way the world works.
So it begins manifesting itself.
Whether it's direct of that orless direct from a very early
age and people grow up with thatperspective.
(07:29):
But I think the challenges whendrawing it to somebody's
attention that it exists is notdoing it in an accusatory
manner.
Amy (07:36):
Right.
Joel (07:36):
Because it is so unconscious.
It's not intentional.
People may even perceive thatthey're not doing it.
They may even perceive they'regoing out of their way to not.
Amy (07:46):
They're probably not aware that they're doing,
Joel (07:48):
Right, and.
Amy (07:48):
that's why it's called unconscious bias.
Yes.
Joel (07:53):
On some level.
I'm not saying everybody,anytime you paint with broad
strokes, it's over generalized.
Amy (07:58):
Right.
Joel (07:58):
So I think a lot of the time people are not consciously
aware that they're doing it, andwhether it's the last principal
at my son's middle school whojust referenced the girls in the
office, they talked about theadministrative support and the
girls.
He was 65 years old.
This is the way they were doingit for years.
(08:18):
It's just the way it is.
What's wrong with it?
It's just the way it is now.
Vicky (08:23):
But do you know How many women refer to other women as
the girls?
Amy (08:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Joel (08:28):
No, I'm just saying I don't think he's even, he's
oblivious to it, like he's noteven aware.
Sam (08:35):
I have a question though.
It might be an objection ormaybe a question about what
you're saying Joel because Istated my opinion from the start
that I think unconscious bias isthe biggest problem right now.
Amy (08:44):
The culprit.
Sam (08:45):
Yeah, At the time.
The laws, you talked aboutGerry, I think they were very
necessary at the time and Ithink now is the time to fix the
unconscious bias.
But Joel, if I'm hearing youcorrectly, it sounds like saying
because it's unconscious becausethey don't realize they're doing
it.
The people that are beingaffected by it should be kinder
and gentler in letting theperson know that there is a
(09:06):
problem.
Amy (09:07):
Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Sam (09:08):
Go ahead.
Amy (09:09):
It's just we have to be careful about shaming and
blaming people into changingtheir behavior.
That doesn't work.
It's not helping.
Gerry (09:15):
Well time out the law is a shame and blame thing and it
changes behavior.
It forces you and the time hasnot come and gone for title
seven.
Title seven is alive and wellbecause discrimination still
does occur and it's necessary,but I think social attitudes
have changed quite a bit.
(09:35):
There used to be a point in timewhere it probably was a badge of
honor for someone to be called abigot to some degree, and I
don't think that's the caseanymore.
Now people protested.
That is such a horrible to becalled, so I think that's all
because of this change
Amy (09:56):
the law.
You're right, I can't speak toit and perhaps shame and blame
is the approach, but I know thatwhen I go into an organization
to teach about culturalintelligence, I invite people in
and when an HR manager says,well, should we just have the
whole leadership group?
My answer will be how about weopen up my training to who would
like to attend because noteverybody's ready to begin to
(10:17):
outsmart their unconscious bias.
And why Why shame and blame
Sam (10:22):
But we're getting to kind of the core of the issue here,
Gerry (10:22):
but the law is a blunt instrument and it says, we're
drawing a line here and don'tcross the line.
Now some people, that's not abig deal.
Other people are going to tryand edge up to l
Joel (10:35):
Legal and ethical are not necessarily the same.
All I was trying to suggest isthat.
Amy (10:40):
I'm sorry Joel, I didn't mean to jump down your throat..
Joel (10:40):
I didn't get to answer the question.
Just I'm more passive than youraverage guy.
Uh, so, uh, what I was gettingat is that when you're
addressing an issue ofunconscious bias, if you come at
it from an angle of you're atfault, you've done this wrong
blame, blame, blame, the peopleshut down.
(11:01):
They're like, no, I go out of myway.
I treat everybody the same.
You know, that's, that's theirresponse.
And they may genuinely perceivethat they're doing that even if
they're not.
So it requires a differentconversation usually facilitated
by somebody outside of that.
Amy (11:16):
It requires cultural intelligence.
Joel (11:18):
Yeah, as opposed to between the two, between the two
people.
Sam (11:21):
so you bring in, dr Amy,
Amy (11:22):
you can shift behaviors in the way people's.
Joel (11:25):
I wanted to share a little story real quick too.
An anecdote and amusingexperience.
Number of years ago was that alarge parent teacher to IEP
meeting for one of my childrenin elementary school and at the
table it was 13 women and me.
Amy (11:39):
Oh, so parody.
Joel (11:40):
Yes.
To your point, what was reallyfunny about it?
I mean it was really clear to methat my opinion was not valued.
I mean it was made abundantlyclear that.
Amy (11:53):
A little bit of discrimination going on there?
Oh look at that.
Vicky (11:59):
But how did that make you feel?
Joel (12:01):
What was interesting about it?
I walked out I'm like, I bet Ibet that's what women feel like
all the time.
That was my initial thought.
Vicky (12:07):
It registered, I've negotiated over 80 labor
agreements in my career.
Okay.
So you can imagine a woman witha Southern accent walking in and
I had been in certain instancescautioned at the way I present
myself at the table or I'll haveshut down city, which is fine,
(12:32):
which is fine.
But when there is one particularorganization in the st Louis
area that I do some consultingfor that there are some
companies they won't put me inbecause I'm too direct.
Okay.
Sam (12:49):
Are you an N T also.
and then Gerry, what do you feelis the solution to the problem?
Gerry (12:55):
The problem is discrimination and the solution
is don't do it.
Sam (13:00):
Well, I mean, ideally,
Gerry (13:02):
but I mean there's only so much laws can do, right?
And you have to have people ofGoodwill and even if they're of
good will trying their best,there can still be unconscious
bias at play, but they have tobe open minded.
So that's the human condition.
Amy (13:20):
Unconscious bias is still very much at play in the United
States.
Only one in five corporationshave actually trained employees
in unconscious bias.
So it's a fairly new concept.
We have a new, yeah, we have anew civil rights rights movement
afoot in the United States, butstill we're not aware of the
bias that's influencing ourwords and actions.
(13:40):
So even the best of intentionsdon't help.
If we're not aware yet, andwe're getting there, it's
happening.
Sam (13:47):
And Amy, I know you do training on this type of thing.
If there's an organization thatis concerned about this or has a
problem with it, how do they getahold of you for help with that?
Amy (13:57):
They can go to my website, www.empoweringpartners.com and
we can talk about workshops onunconscious bias, but even more
importantly, after unconsciousbias, a lot of folks will feel
kind of awkward and being awarethat bias is sitting there.
So cultural intelligence takesit that step further.
And so now what do I do?
(14:17):
How do I behave, and how do Italk?
Now that I'm a little bit moreaware of how I come across to
people,
Christine (14:21):
thanks for listening to super manager by CN video
production.
Visit our website at cn-video.com for additional
episodes and lots of supermanager resources, or give us a
call at(314) VIDEO ME.
You're listening to SuperManager, the podcast for
people who manage people andbusiness.
With ideas, trends, and expertinterviews to help you be a
super manager.
Amy (00:13):
Okay, so welcome back to part three of our super manager
conversation about equal pay andgender bias.
And in this episode we're goingto go around the room and talk
about some solutions and you'regoing to hear from my totally
equal super friends.
Gerry (00:24):
I'm Gerry Richardson, I'm a lawyer at Evans and Dixon.
I work with employers.
I h elp them manage theirrelationships through the
courtship, the marriage and thedivorce.
Joel (00:34):
Joel Emery with Ignite Strategies.
I serve as a sales systemsarchitect for small and midsize
businesses.
Vicky (00:39):
Vicky Wors, Wors consulting.
I am a human resourcesconsultant for small to midsize
businesses, helping themmaneuver through some of the
uncomfortable issues they face.
Amy (00:50):
I'm Amy Narishkin.
I'm a cultural intelligencestrategist with empowering
partners, which is actually mybusiness.
So I'm a consultant as well andI help organizations reach
broader markets by hiring peoplethat they think are different.
And I am Samantha Naes with CNvideo.
We do corporate videoproduction.
Amy, what do you feel needs tochange?
(01:10):
What do you feel is thesolution?
For me, it always goes back toinvisibility.
When Natalie was in the room,she was talking about her
husband being referred toinstead of her expertise.
So just that bias shows up thatwomen's voices and opinions
aren't as valuable and that'swhere we still are as a society.
(01:34):
So one of the statistics thatmight be helpful in order for
there to be true parody in aroom, for example, a corporate
meeting for there to be parodyin the room, women need to make
up 70% a super majority in theroom for women's voices to be
considered as valuable.
So there still is that bias.
(01:54):
So what she experienced, I guessat that trade show where her
husband was perceived as theexpert instead of her, she was
the expert in that case.
So that's just the reality thatwe're dealing with right now.
And I'm not sure it's any oneperson's fault, it's just a lack
of awareness that there's anopportunity to make sure that
women's voices are heard in theroom.
(02:15):
And that's valuable for acompany too, because whenever
you have anybody in anorganization feeling minimized,
sidelined, or silenced, that'sgoing to stifle productivity,
innovation, profit in anyorganization.
So I think it's making sure thatpeople feel heard and valued and
seen both men and women.
Sam (02:36):
And here I interrupt you, I'm, I'm part of the statistic.
Vicky (02:40):
Well actually, we in the United States are a Judeo
Christian country, and if somany people adhere to biblical
teachings, you have a lot of ourreligious instruction is by
males.
And in fact, through thestructure of that particular
(03:01):
religion or belief pattern,whatever, women cannot hold a
role as teacher, leader, pastor,whatever.
So you start from some of thevery, very kernel of a person's
life that it's all the way backto our socialization as human
(03:26):
beings.
Okay.
And what happens is you see, andyou begin to say, well, I need
to have a man that's in thisrole to tell me this because
this woman, she didn't knowanything.
Okay.
All right.
Yeah.
It permeates our society.
It permeates throughout thecountry.
(03:47):
I purposely, I just like, I justgot in from a doctor's
appointment.
I purposely do not go to maledoctors anymore.
Amy (03:56):
Hmm.
Vicky (03:57):
Why would you take a car into a mechanic that doesn't
know how to drive?
So what?
I've got totally different thanwhat that male doctor has.
Okay, so it's,
Sam (04:11):
Hey, we chuckle, but for the longest time they were
talking about medications.
Painkillers were only tested towork for men.
Vicky (04:17):
Yes.
Amy (04:18):
It's still happening.
Sam (04:19):
It's still happening.
Amy (04:19):
It's still happening.
The average time for a woman inthe ER...
Gerry (04:21):
for rats, do they work for rats?
It's.
Sam (04:29):
male rats
Vicky (04:33):
It's just throughout our society and then to change
horses so to speak.
As you become gainfully employedin the labor market, you're very
basic who you are does notchange at that point.
It certainly does take apurposeful change.
Amy (04:52):
Right?
Vicky (04:52):
Because of who you are.
Just like my doctor selection,I'm not going to fall into that
trap.
Okay.
Gerry (05:01):
Now, Vicky, you've made that conscious decision with
doctors since about when
Vicky (05:06):
I actually start out with when I married my husband.
Gerry (05:10):
Is he a doctor?
Vicky (05:11):
No, no.
He just had issues.
But anyway, that's anotherpodcast.
Gerry (05:17):
This is pertinent to the topic for about how long have
you been in making that?
Vicky (05:22):
Let's see, how old am I?
Probably half a century.
Okay, really
Gerry (05:27):
Because what you find though was there was a point in
time where there weren't femaledoctors and that the,
Vicky (05:35):
I'm not that old.
Gerry (05:35):
Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa.
I'm a lawyer and I, and I cantell you law school, I can tell
you better than medical school.
But I think they were on similarpatterns and there weren't
women.
The medical schools being saidthey weren't going.
What they were probably gettingthe women that had the aptitude
were probably being steered inthe nursing school instead.
Okay.
(05:56):
But in any case, the medicalschools change these male
dominated medical schoolschanged., They were forced to do
so by the federal government intitle 9.
Okay.
But we'll put that aside.
Since about 1970 there are nowmany, many more females in
medical school.
I would venture a guess and it'sonly a guess cause I haven't
(06:18):
looked at the statistics, butthere's probably at least half
of the enrollment in medicalschools is female.
So there are many more choicesthan there used to be.
in law school, it's probablyslightly more female than male.
Amy (06:36):
We know that more women are going to college now than men.
Gerry (06:42):
That's by a fairly big percentage, at least my older
daughter, where she graduatedfrom, it was like 62% female,
but it was a coed schoolforever.
Sam (06:53):
Joel, what do you feel is the solution to the problem?
Joel (06:55):
I wanted to weigh in on a couple of things, so much of
this is unconscious.
It's something that's ingrainedin people's minds.
It's preexisting, it'sunconscious.
Sam (07:04):
And not just in the office, but parents and siblings.
Joel (07:08):
I mean, whether for example, my son's teacher at
daycare told him all littleboys, like their moms more than
their dads.
And so he decided, he liked hismom more than his dads.
That's the way the world works.
So it begins manifesting itself.
Whether it's direct of that orless direct from a very early
age and people grow up with thatperspective.
(07:29):
But I think the challenges whendrawing it to somebody's
attention that it exists is notdoing it in an accusatory
manner.
Amy (07:36):
Right.
Joel (07:36):
Because it is so unconscious.
It's not intentional.
People may even perceive thatthey're not doing it.
They may even perceive they'regoing out of their way to not.
Amy (07:46):
They're probably not aware that they're doing,
Joel (07:48):
Right, and.
Amy (07:48):
that's why it's called unconscious bias.
Yes.
Joel (07:53):
On some level.
I'm not saying everybody,anytime you paint with broad
strokes, it's over generalized.
Amy (07:58):
Right.
Joel (07:58):
So I think a lot of the time people are not consciously
aware that they're doing it, andwhether it's the last principal
at my son's middle school whojust referenced the girls in the
office, they talked about theadministrative support and the
girls.
He was 65 years old.
This is the way they were doingit for years.
(08:18):
It's just the way it is.
What's wrong with it?
It's just the way it is now.
Vicky (08:23):
But do you know How many women refer to other women as
the girls?
Amy (08:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Joel (08:28):
No, I'm just saying I don't think he's even, he's
oblivious to it, like he's noteven aware.
Sam (08:35):
I have a question though.
It might be an objection ormaybe a question about what
you're saying Joel because Istated my opinion from the start
that I think unconscious bias isthe biggest problem right now.
Amy (08:44):
The culprit.
Sam (08:45):
Yeah, At the time.
The laws, you talked aboutGerry, I think they were very
necessary at the time and Ithink now is the time to fix the
unconscious bias.
But Joel, if I'm hearing youcorrectly, it sounds like saying
because it's unconscious becausethey don't realize they're doing
it.
The people that are beingaffected by it should be kinder
and gentler in letting theperson know that there is a
(09:06):
problem.
Amy (09:07):
Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Sam (09:08):
Go ahead.
Amy (09:09):
It's just we have to be careful about shaming and
blaming people into changingtheir behavior.
That doesn't work.
It's not helping.
Gerry (09:15):
Well time out the law is a shame and blame thing and it
changes behavior.
It forces you and the time hasnot come and gone for title
seven.
Title seven is alive and wellbecause discrimination still
does occur and it's necessary,but I think social attitudes
have changed quite a bit.
(09:35):
There used to be a point in timewhere it probably was a badge of
honor for someone to be called abigot to some degree, and I
don't think that's the caseanymore.
Now people protested.
That is such a horrible to becalled, so I think that's all
because of this change
Amy (09:56):
the law.
You're right, I can't speak toit and perhaps shame and blame
is the approach, but I know thatwhen I go into an organization
to teach about culturalintelligence, I invite people in
and when an HR manager says,well, should we just have the
whole leadership group?
My answer will be how about weopen up my training to who would
like to attend because noteverybody's ready to begin to
(10:17):
outsmart their unconscious bias.
And why Why shame and blame
Sam (10:22):
But we're getting to kind of the core of the issue here,
Gerry (10:22):
but the law is a blunt instrument and it says, we're
drawing a line here and don'tcross the line.
Now some people, that's not abig deal.
Other people are going to tryand edge up to l
Joel (10:35):
Legal and ethical are not necessarily the same.
All I was trying to suggest isthat.
Amy (10:40):
I'm sorry Joel, I didn't mean to jump down your throat..
Joel (10:40):
I didn't get to answer the question.
Just I'm more passive than youraverage guy.
Uh, so, uh, what I was gettingat is that when you're
addressing an issue ofunconscious bias, if you come at
it from an angle of you're atfault, you've done this wrong
blame, blame, blame, the peopleshut down.
(11:01):
They're like, no, I go out of myway.
I treat everybody the same.
You know, that's, that's theirresponse.
And they may genuinely perceivethat they're doing that even if
they're not.
So it requires a differentconversation usually facilitated
by somebody outside of that.
Amy (11:16):
It requires cultural intelligence.
Joel (11:18):
Yeah, as opposed to between the two, between the two
people.
Sam (11:21):
so you bring in, dr Amy,
Amy (11:22):
you can shift behaviors in the way people's.
Joel (11:25):
I wanted to share a little story real quick too.
An anecdote and amusingexperience.
Number of years ago was that alarge parent teacher to IEP
meeting for one of my childrenin elementary school and at the
table it was 13 women and me.
Amy (11:39):
Oh, so parody.
Joel (11:40):
Yes.
To your point, what was reallyfunny about it?
I mean it was really clear to methat my opinion was not valued.
I mean it was made abundantlyclear that.
Amy (11:53):
A little bit of discrimination going on there?
Oh look at that.
Vicky (11:59):
But how did that make you feel?
Joel (12:01):
What was interesting about it?
I walked out I'm like, I bet Ibet that's what women feel like
all the time.
That was my initial thought.
Vicky (12:07):
It registered, I've negotiated over 80 labor
agreements in my career.
Okay.
So you can imagine a woman witha Southern accent walking in and
I had been in certain instancescautioned at the way I present
myself at the table or I'll haveshut down city, which is fine,
(12:32):
which is fine.
But when there is one particularorganization in the st Louis
area that I do some consultingfor that there are some
companies they won't put me inbecause I'm too direct.
Okay.
Sam (12:49):
Are you an N T also.
and then Gerry, what do you feelis the solution to the problem?
Gerry (12:55):
The problem is discrimination and the solution
is don't do it.
Sam (13:00):
Well, I mean, ideally,
Gerry (13:02):
but I mean there's only so much laws can do, right?
And you have to have people ofGoodwill and even if they're of
good will trying their best,there can still be unconscious
bias at play, but they have tobe open minded.
So that's the human condition.
Amy (13:20):
Unconscious bias is still very much at play in the United
States.
Only one in five corporationshave actually trained employees
in unconscious bias.
So it's a fairly new concept.
We have a new, yeah, we have anew civil rights rights movement
afoot in the United States, butstill we're not aware of the
bias that's influencing ourwords and actions.
(13:40):
So even the best of intentionsdon't help.
If we're not aware yet, andwe're getting there, it's
happening.
Sam (13:47):
And Amy, I know you do training on this type of thing.
If there's an organization thatis concerned about this or has a
problem with it, how do they getahold of you for help with that?
Amy (13:57):
They can go to my website, www.empoweringpartners.com and
we can talk about workshops onunconscious bias, but even more
importantly, after unconsciousbias, a lot of folks will feel
kind of awkward and being awarethat bias is sitting there.
So cultural intelligence takesit that step further.
And so now what do I do?
(14:17):
How do I behave, and how do Italk?
Now that I'm a little bit moreaware of how I come across to
people,
Christine (14:21):
thanks for listening to super manager by CN video
production.
Visit our website at cn-video.com for additional
episodes and lots of supermanager resources, or give us a
call at(314) VIDEO ME.
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