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Who knew that our 75th episode at Taiwanica Podcast would turn into such a soul-searching journey? Anita and I never imagined that our celebration would lead us down the path of dissecting selfishness and selflessness, concepts that have haunted and challenged every one of us. This particular dance of interests—balancing our own needs with the weight of societal expectations—is something that hits close to home for both of us. As we share our personal narratives, with me bringing an American perspective on individualism and Anita considering her Taiwanese roots and familial obligations, we hope to shed light on this universal struggle.
The nuances of attending a friend's birthday or the commitment seen in careers like medicine and firefighting might seem worlds apart, yet they converge on the same dilemma: how do we honor our own needs without neglecting those of others? We're all familiar with the guilt that creeps in when we choose ourselves over someone else, but what if there's a way to craft a solution that benefits everyone involved? That's the conversation we're bringing to the table—practical wisdom for creating scenarios where no one has to lose.
To cap things off, we dive into the concept of self-value, and how it shouldn't be overshadowed by our drive to serve others. Anita opens up about her struggle with self-care amidst the pressure of familial duty, offering insights into how setting boundaries has become her act of rebellion and self-preservation. And as your hosts, we're excited to tease the idea of an upcoming deep dive into personal values—because learning to live authentically, aligning with what truly matters to us, just might be the key to resolving the age-old conflict between self-interest and selflessness. So join us, as we embrace the full spectrum of what it means to be human, right here on Taiwanica Podcast.
誰能想到我們在《Taiwanica Podcast》的第75集會成為如此深入反思的旅程呢？安妮塔和我從未想過我們的慶祝會將我們引向探討自私和無私的道路，這些概念一直困擾並挑戰著我們每個人。利益的這種特定舞蹈──平衡自身需求與社會期望的重量──對我們兩個都是深有感觸的。當我們分享個人故事時，我以美國人的個人主義觀點，安妮塔則考慮她的台灣根源和家庭責任，我們希望能為這個普世之爭帶來新的光明。
參加朋友生日的微妙之處，以及醫學和消防等職業中所見的承諾，看似天差地遠，但它們在同一個困境上匯聚：我們如何滿足自身需求而不忽視他人的需求？當我們選擇自己而非他人時，內心總會充滿罪惡感，但如果有一種方法可以制定使每個人都受益的解決方案呢？這正是我們要討論的話題──創造出沒有人必須輸的情境的實用智慧。
最後，我們深入探討自我價值的概念，以及它不應被我們服務他人的驅動所掩蓋。安妮塔談到她在家庭責任壓力下的自我關懷困境，提供了關於如何設定界限成為她的反叛行為和自我保護的見解。作為主持人，我們很高興地預告即將深入探討個人價值觀的想法──因為學會真實地生活，與真正重要的事情保持一致，或許才是解決自利和無私之間古老衝突的關鍵。所以，加入我們，在《Taiwanica Podcast》中擁抱成為人的整個光譜。
Check out our website!
https://www.ericandanita.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eric (00:03):
This is Episode 75, talking about selfishness and
how it affects you on a dailylife.
What's up everybody.
Welcome back to TaiwanicaPodcast.
My name is Eric, one of thehosts here, and I am proud to
announce and celebrate the 75thepisode, a huge milestone for
(00:26):
Taiwanica.
And to celebrate it with me isthe other wonderful host, anita.
What's up.
Anita (00:34):
Hello everybody, my name is Anita.
Welcome back to Taiwanica.
Thank you all.
So much for all the listeningsand support.
Without you we wouldn't make itthrough 75 episodes.
It's a big deal.
Thank you all.
Eric (00:49):
It is, it is.
We have gone through a lot inthis journey a lot of changes, a
lot of tears, a lot of laughter.
But here is to the next 75episodes of Taiwanica.
Yes, we are proud to keep ongoing because of all of your
positive support throughout allof this.
So, now that we have celebratedthe change and the big moments
(01:11):
of Taiwanica, we're going tostop being selfish for a second
and go ahead and dive intotoday's episode, which is all
about this key word thateveryone knows about but not
really know what it means, right?
Anita (01:29):
Yes, the re will be a general idea.
Like we know, when we've beencalled that we don't necessarily
happy about it.
But today we will be sharingsome other aspects, like from
the deeper level.
Yes.
So it's very inspiring mypersonal opinion, so I can't
wait to share to all of you.
Eric (01:50):
Absolutely.
Me too.
This word has been somethingthat growing up has been
difficult for, I think, manypeople.
But when you really get a graspof what actually is selfishness
and its counterpart, its friendselflessness, which we'll also
be talking about in this episode, you really get an idea that
(02:13):
selfishness actually has value,and also selflessness has its
value to some degree, and sowe're going to help you
(02:34):
understand these points as bestas we can with the knowledge
that we have learned.
So we're really excited for youto understand this information,
really excited for you tounderstand this information.
Make sure you stay tuned untilthe very end of this episode,
because one of the mostimportant parts of understanding
this information will beexplained there by itself.
So we're really excited aboutthis.
(02:54):
Let's go ahead and dive on in.
We're going to start broad withselfishness.
Anita, what do you think, inyour experience as a Taiwanese
and as a woman, what isselfishness?
Anita (03:08):
Well, basically it's do something for yourself.
Only that's selfish.
Grew up in a family that's allabout self being selfless.
You know the mother that you saw.
The mother figure devoted herentire life to the family and
she kept on repeating, like whenshe was young she had those
(03:28):
dreams but she was never able toachieve them because she chose
to be a mother.
So this idea family values keepon repeating in our head, just
like a record playing in ourhead, just automatically
engraving in our brains, like arecord playing our heads,
automatically engraving ourbrains like selfish is bad,
selfless is good because youserve others, you sacrifice
(03:53):
yourself.
Okay, but when I grew up, I'vebeen called selfish from my
mother a few time and I, when Iwas being called selfish, I was
actually feel very guilty andbelieve that I am a selfish
person, Right.
So selfish basically is just dothe things for yourself.
Eric (04:17):
Okay, what's an example of that?
Anita (04:18):
Okay, After I graduate from university, I choose to
move out from my parents' houseto raise myself you know, like
make the income and raise myselfand to live the lifestyle that
I want and instead of stay home,give money to my parents, raise
them, stay as a family.
(04:39):
So once I made a decision to dothe things I really want for
myself, my mother called meselfish.
So throughout the whole timeI've been thinking selfish is a
bad thing.
But now, at this point, when Ilook at my life, I had no
regrets about making thosedecisions and I actually are
(05:01):
doing the things I really wantand I put in an effort to it.
So for me, selfish is notnecessarily a bad thing.
Eric (05:11):
Okay, but in your society, and especially in your family,
being selfish in this way isconsidered wrong.
Anita (05:21):
It's wrong.
So that's the broad idea.
Most people think about selfishas a bad thing.
Eric (05:27):
Okay, I just want to take that idea and then bring it into
an American point of view andI'm going to represent men in
the United States.
Okay, so selfishness in theUnited States is part of our
culture.
It's being individualized as aperson inside the United States
is how we grow up.
(05:47):
We are designed to beindependent.
That's what our whole aspect oflife is.
But and this is a big but beingindividual and independent has
its benefits as an American hasits benefits as an American.
(06:10):
But we still have this idea thatif we do too much on our own,
without considering others notspecifically our family, but
more inside of our circle offriends or our work and the
aspects that we have to beinvolved involved in we can
easily be afraid of beingselfish, which is taken to the
aspect of, instead of not beingable to do the actions that we
(06:31):
want to do, it's more about howdo we represent ourselves inside
of those groups.
So, if I want to, for example inthe united states, if I'm in a
circle of friends and I want todo the only like the activities
that I want to do Like, so, forexample, when I was younger, I
really loved to skateboardlongboard and some of my friends
(06:54):
really don't like doing that.
They said hey, Eric, let's golike play video games or let's
go watch a movie.
I'd be like, no, I would ratherlongboard.
I'd be like, no, I would ratherlongboard.
They would consider me selfishat some point because if they
came and did longboarding withme many times but I didn't go
and do their activity, then Iwould be considered selfish.
(07:16):
So it's a give and take kind ofaspect with selfishness in the
United States, but with familyusually it's not that case,
which I think is a little bitdifferent from Taiwan.
It's that in the United Statesgenerally we want you to leave.
We want you to get out, yeah,and I think the reason for that
(07:37):
is because we want you to grow,right.
But the thing is is, at thesame time, the parents want you
out.
So when's?
But the thing is is, at thesame time, the parents want you
out.
So when you consider theparents selfish in this
situation because they're likeI'm done being a parent, you
know, go out and do your ownthing, right.
So this is the thing, though.
Right is that?
Because if you look at it fromthe perspective of everyone,
(08:00):
right?
You would think that theparents are being selfish here,
throwing out an 18 year old kidinto the middle of nowhere.
Yeah, they don't have anyability, skills or anything.
You're like, you're on your own, but mom, close the door.
It's like that.
That's happened, you know it'slike you're 18, you're done, and
that's in some people's pointsof view, on a general level,
(08:23):
that is selfish, exactly Right,and so that's a in some people's
points of view on a generallevel that is selfish.
Exactly Right, and so that's avery interesting perspective.
That's a little bit different.
Anita (08:29):
Right yeah, Because you know Asian family, like in Asian
culture, families, iseverything.
It's the most important thing.
So we always emphasize theunity inside a family, right?
So you know, everybody in thefamily is selfless and that's
good.
If someone is doing somethingfor their own purpose or for
(08:50):
their own good, that's selfish.
Yeah, right.
So after we explained thegeneral idea and the broad idea,
we wanted to dive into thedeeper level.
Yeah, right.
So, based on my story, like Isaid, if you do things in your
own way for your own happiness,good.
If you should say that for yourown good, then that's selfish.
(09:13):
So, based on my understandingof this word, my past experience
and the culture I grew up, Iwould say selfish is not 100%
the bad thing and you shouldlook at selfish and selfless not
just black and white, not justright or wrong.
It's about how you choose andhow do we choose.
(09:34):
It's based on our personalvalue, would you say so?
Eric (09:38):
Absolutely, and that's something that I think we should
definitely dive in deeper withthe self-value in a moment here,
but one of the things that Iwould like to bring up is that
separation of selfish andselfless, that black and white
that you just mentioned.
The big thing that a lot ofpeople think is that if I'm not
being selfish, therefore I amselfless.
(09:59):
Right, it's one or another.
You're jumping from that sideto the other side.
There is nothing in between,and that's just not the truth.
The truth is is that there'sthis huge gray zone in the
middle.
Anita (10:12):
The two words itself is gray zones.
Two big gray zones.
Eric (10:15):
Yes, exactly they are.
They are their own gray zones,right, but in reality they are
opposites.
In this point, and the pointthat I'm trying to bring up here
is that if you believe that youare selfless when someone else
is being selfish, this is notnecessarily the case.
You have to realize one bigthing Selfishness is about
(10:40):
understanding your self-value.
Selflessness means that youunderstand your self-value to
the point that you don't careabout it anymore and you are
doing something that might beoutside of yourself in order to
help the greater good, right.
So these two aspects are veryimportant to understand
(11:03):
holistically all around, becausein some situations, doing one
is going to be very importantand the other one is going to
also be very important.
But you have to know the root,and the root is the self, right.
That's why they're in both ofthe words.
It's in selfish and selfless.
(11:23):
What's the key word here?
Self right.
So if we understand what theself is, we'll be able to really
understand this on a greatervalue level.
But right now, I want to justdive in a bit more of some
examples that we can share aboutwhen is it okay to be selfish?
Okay, do you have any examplesthat you'd like to share?
Anita (11:44):
Well, like we mentioned right, For example, if my friend
has like a birthday party, youknow, as a good friend, I should
be joining their birthday party, but it just so happened that
day.
I don't feel like myself.
I would like to take some timejust for myself.
Even I don't do anything, Ijust stay home, you know, play
(12:05):
with my son or read some books,drink a cup of tea.
Just take some time for myself.
I just don't feel like I wantedto go to my friend's birthday.
Is that selfish?
Yes, it is, I would say so.
Maybe this friend was really,you know, very looking forward
to see me in his or her birthdayparty.
Well, maybe this friend, youknow, celebrated my birthday
(12:28):
party, celebrated my birthdaybefore, but on that day I just
made the decision to be selfishbecause I know if today I force
myself to do the things asunwillingly which join the
birthday party, I wouldn't beengaged in the way as authentic
(12:50):
self, I wouldn't be as joyful asI should be at that occasion
and I might just startcomplaining about oh my God, why
am I wasting my time?
Or started to pick up thethings I can complain about?
Just because this resentment Ihave towards myself, because I
didn't make the decision formyself first, I forced myself,
(13:13):
against my personal will, to dothis thing, just so I cannot be
called selfish.
Right.
And then I have the wholeresentment, maybe towards to my
friends.
Eric (13:23):
Yeah, you build this negativity towards them.
Anita (13:25):
Exactly so.
When you started to feel thenegative emotion towards to
either selfish or selflessbehavior, that's when you
started to pay more attention toit.
Eric (13:39):
So expanding on your example, because I think it's
very clear on understanding whatis selfishness, is that by you
not going to the party or theoccasion, that you know that
there is going to be aconsequence, but irregardless of
that consequence, you believethat if you are being selfish in
(14:01):
this moment, you're actuallydoing something that is more
authentic to yourself ratherthan worrying about the result
that is going to happen to theother person.
Right?
So that's why I think this isthe word selfishness.
Right, because you're focusingcompletely on the self.
Right, you're not worried aboutthe other person or the
(14:25):
scenario that happens there.
Right, and that's a choice.
That's a choice that you made.
And so let's say, on the otherhand, you do go to that party,
even though you don't want to go.
This is an act of selflessness,right?
Yeah, and so what would be thebenefit made here?
Anita (14:45):
I showed up as my friend wanted and I'd be part of the
he's or her birthday party, asthe other person wanted, and
that's it.
Eric (14:57):
So the benefit is completely outside of yourself.
Exactly, selflessness, yes,right, so you are doing
something completely for someoneelse, irregardless of how you
feel within, exactly.
So there is a benefit of doingthat in some scenarios not this
(15:18):
scenario, not the one that youjust mentioned, but in other
scenarios there could be.
Some examples that I can thinkof are like being a doctor, and
especially doctors who work inthird world countries like
Africa.
Okay, they are completely doingthat from a selfless point of
view.
They're not making a lot ofmoney, they're not gaining a lot
of benefits, they're not livingin a nice house.
(15:39):
The thing that they're gainingin this selfless action is to
help others completely.
Firefighters is another greatexample.
They're risking their entirelives to help other people by
saving them from fire.
Right, this is another selflessact, right?
So in these examples that wecan see, there's no sense of
(16:02):
selfishness that we can clearlysee.
Right, but do you believe thatinside them there is any
selfishness at all?
Definitely, definitely.
What is that them?
Anita (16:13):
there is any selfishness at all.
Definitely, Definitely.
What is that?
Our actions, life choices, big,small career or act on your
self-preference.
We have this selfish tendency.
Those people, you said it rightselfless behavior, but their
intention, what was theirintention?
They must enjoy what they weredoing right, that's where the
(16:35):
selfishness comes in, exactly sotheir life decision, for most
of people, which is general idea, is selfless, but their
intention, they must have beenenjoying doing it and it's good.
That's good.
They're being selfish aboutchoosing those life career they
want, right.
So this is a perfect balance,which is the idea I wanted to
(16:58):
brought up.
It's no good or bad, it's justabout balance.
So today, if you, you know,being a doctor, firefighter, for
most people think it's selflessbecause they put their life
into, you know, in otherscenarios or in other people's
hands, like third world country,you don't know what would
happen, but they act on itbecause they can get self, you
(17:22):
know, sense of achievement orsense of fulfillment, whatever
that is.
That's their selfishness.
So this is a perfect balance.
So, they should coexist in thiscase in this case, right.
Eric (17:35):
So this is where the key word that we're going to bring
up is how they understandthemselves.
Right, the self once again,like they, these kind of people
who are doing these actions,hopefully right like maybe they
don't know, but ideally they areunderstanding who their self is
and that they understand theirself, then they are capable of
(18:00):
making actions that will notonly be beneficial for
themselves, but simultaneouslybeing helpful for others, and
this is the key word that Iwanted to bring up today, which
is called a win-win-win scenario.
What's a win-win-win scenario,anita?
Anita (18:19):
You know, we usually say win-win Right.
I said three though.
Eric (18:23):
Yeah, it's not win-win, it's a win-win-win Three wins.
Anita (18:28):
So basically, when we are having a conversation that
conflicts, like we have settledthe idea when.
What is our next vacationlocation, for example, yeah, I
want to go to France, you wantedto go to Russia?
Eric and Anita (18:41):
God, I do not want to go to Russia, just for
the record.
Yes, I do not want to go.
Eric (18:49):
Oh hey, russians are great .
They are great.
I love Russians.
Anita (18:52):
They just great.
I love Russians.
They just have a lot of history.
Eric (18:55):
I don't like cold places Okay, and Russia, you are cold
Okay.
Anita (19:00):
They have vodka.
Eric (19:01):
That's my least favorite alcohol, so it's not a suitable
place for me.
Anita (19:06):
Anyways, yes, so in this case, if we say, oh, everyone's
go to Russia, I want to go toParis, and finally we made the
conclusions is win for Eric andwin for me, then will be the
best situation, right, right, ifwe just choose to go to Paris
for example, it will just be winfor me, wouldn't be win for
Eric.
Right.
(19:27):
Okay.
So the basic win-win situationyou already know Win for you,
win for others.
The other one is win for theenvironment everyone involved,
exactly everything involved, isalso winning so, like the
doctors and firefighterssituation, win for themselves
because they choose the lifepaths they want, win for others
(19:47):
because they save others and winfor the world, the world
country.
They need more than people likethis Fire.
They need firefighters to savethe environment.
Eric (19:56):
Right.
Anita (19:57):
In this case, it's a win-win-win scenario.
Eric (19:59):
Exactly, and these are really good examples of this,
and that's why some of thesepeople have the biggest sense of
fulfillment.
According to statistics, bothof them are in the top 10 of the
most happy careers that youcould have, and there's a reason
for it.
It's because they have thewin-win-win scenario.
But this doesn't mean you haveto go and quit your job right
(20:22):
now and go be a firefighter orbe a doctor.
Anita (20:24):
Because that wouldn't be a win for yourself if it's not
authentic.
Eric (20:27):
It's not authentic, right.
So you need to understand whatis your self-value, which?
Is what we're going to expandon.
This is the key word today andwhat is it going to connect with
?
With other people, and how doesthat connection with other
people also relate to theenvironment that you're in three
(20:49):
points with yourself.
Then you have created thebalance of selflessness and
selfishness, In other words, theself right.
So that dives into somethingthat I wanted to touch a little
bit before we get into value.
I think we're kind of avoidingit a little bit.
I want to give it someattention, and that is
(21:09):
selflessness.
Okay, so let's talk about it.
What is selflessness, based onyour perspective and perspective
of Taiwan?
Anita (21:19):
Selflessness is when you, as a server, you give, you
serve others.
Simple as that, as a family Ialready mentioned about.
Like in Asian Taiwaneseeseculture, selfless is live for
others.
When you are, you choose yourmajor in college.
You should choose the one thatmakes the most money, has the
(21:43):
brighter future, hence why youcan support your family, which
is the original family againit's close to the family aspect,
because it's the most importantpart of our culture.
So selflessness is basically youmade a decision for others,
serve others and just put yourpurpose to others.
(22:05):
That's selfless.
Eric (22:09):
Back to the family aspect and also, whatever decision
you're making, you are being agood Taiwanese citizen if you
are considering a future thatrelates to or is no matter what
connected to your family in someway or another.
And this is just a general idea.
(22:30):
Right, this isn't for everyTaiwanese, but this is something
that you can definitely seeinside of Taiwanese culture,
right?
And so now I want to ask youwhy but I know we don't want to
get too deep into that rabbithole, but what do you think is
something that really is pushingthis selflessness?
Is it because of family sayingif you don't do this, we'll all
(22:52):
suffer?
Anita (23:03):
Or do you think it could be something completely
different?
Or what is your opinion Forothers?
We live for others.
Eric (23:11):
Live for others.
Anita (23:12):
Enhance why we can have a bigger and stronger community,
a group, any kind of group thatyou can think about at school
family.
If the family is all strong andstick together, that means
they're good.
And if you need to sticktogether and only stick together
as a group, it requires unifiedeverybody, meaning we don't
(23:36):
have much space for individualto exist.
So most of the decision thatwe're making is for others, like
, oh, we moved to this countrybecause, oh, we moved to this
city.
Or move here because I livecloser to my parents.
I can, you know, take care ofthem.
Or the parents move closer totheir kids because they wanted
(23:58):
to be around when the kids needthem.
Or, you know, any kind ofdecision is based on the belief
that we believe.
The value that we believe isunity.
Eric (24:10):
And unity is not necessarily a bad thing, but
unity and selflessness are kindof combined, yeah, in this value
that you're talking about.
So a root value in taiwan,based on your, your perspective
of taiwan, is that that if youwant to be a good taiwanese, you
(24:31):
need to have this intertwinedvalue of selflessness and
unification with your family, nomatter what.
Anita (24:40):
Yes.
Eric (24:40):
So they are, no matter what, going to basically be one
with each other, and they can'tlive without each other.
Anita (24:50):
And sacrifice is a very big big part of our culture.
Sacrifice is always good.
Eric (24:59):
Yeah, it's similar to selflessness right Right.
Yeah, it makes sense.
So, yeah, I think if I were totake that and bring it over to
the United States is that Iwould say that selflessness is
similar to some phrases or termsthat we have in the United
States.
One of them is being a doormat.
That's really common to saytowards a lady.
(25:19):
For men it's like Mr Nice Guyor yes, man.
No.
There's even a movie by JimCarrey about that kind of
perspective on life and thesekind of people, and I know quite
a few of them.
One of my dearest friends livesa life like this, and this kind
of lifestyle is based on fearin the United States, and it's
(25:44):
not because of the necessitywith family, it's more based on
the fear that if I don't, then Iwill be alone, and this is
something that is a hugepandemic inside as the opposite
of selfishness.
Because of that, we're thinking, okay, I must, I'll be a very
(26:19):
good american citizen if I sayyes to everything, and so this
is totally not true.
But then again it just comesdown to this root again of what
is what is self right?
Anita (26:32):
that reminds me of one thing like selflessness also
give us the idea, like we don't.
We always think we are not goodenough if we are not being
selfless.
So, on the other hand, is weonly depending on other people's
needs, that if we can provideother people's needs, then I am
(26:54):
good?
Yes I have value, like you knowmother figure.
If I sacrifice enough, beingselfless to all of my kids or
all my family, I am a good mom,right?
So this is like our word, onlydepending on.
I I'm not saying serve othersis a bad thing, I'm just saying
(27:17):
you only serve that to gainself-value.
That's where the problem is.
Eric (27:25):
Right.
You're trying to achieveself-value from an outward
perspective, so like doingthings outside of your inner
body to achieve something thatonly temporarily gives you that
sense of achievement.
Right.
But in reality, the only way tohave value within is to know
(27:45):
what your values are and thenfollowing those actions.
Right, so sometimes you knowevery day we're probably doing
those, you know.
But the idea is that do youknow what actions you're doing
each day that are triggeringthose, are activating those
values inside you?
Yeah, that's what we're goingto talk about next time.
Okay, but yes, great point,very great point.
(28:07):
Uh, is there something elsethat you want to mention here?
Anita (28:10):
yeah, because I think, now that we were going down to
this, the biggest question islike how you know, then, you
guys are talking about this somuch, so what should we do?
Right, right.
It's about some practice thatyou can apply to your life, and
I just wanted to share one of mypersonal ideas.
Go ahead.
(28:31):
Because I grew up in a familyselfless is good, selfish is bad
.
So I've seen my mothersacrifice herself all the time
constantly for children.
So right now I don't want to belike that, right, because we
are both of us are searching forself-value, and that is about
(28:51):
balance.
So sometimes, when I was takingcare of our son, I do
everything for him first in themorning, I prepare his breakfast
first, and when it's my turn toeat, the moment I sit down, he
will start asking because healready finished his breakfast,
right, so he's ready to likeplay or whatever he wants to do.
He will be like mama read ormama play, my instant action
(29:15):
react.
I would react.
And will be like mama read ormama play, my instant action
react.
I would reaction will be yes, I, I shouldn't be eating right
now my baby needs me you know.
So that's what.
Eric (29:25):
What we mentioned about earlier is that it's like a you
know, the broken recordengraving your brain that you
should be this way right ifyou're not, you are selfish, you
are bad, you're equals, you'rea bad mother so you already can
see right something that'shappening unconsciously exactly
all the time in your life.
Anita (29:44):
Yeah, isn't that fascinating so fascinating,
scary at the same time.
Eric (29:48):
But that's the thing is that you just had a realization,
yes, and now that you have therealization, you can take action
on it, and that's what we'retrying to achieve for everyone
listening right now is that whatis a moment in your daily life
it's happening, it's happeningevery day, and what is it in
your life that is causing you tobe selfless, but not in a way
(30:10):
that you would enjoy?
Right?
If you know what that is, thengreat.
Now you know where to start.
Anita (30:17):
Yes.
So again, we are not convincingyou to choose side, to choose
to be selfish all the time orselfless all the time.
Eric (30:24):
No, not at all.
Anita (30:25):
It's about balance.
So how do we do this?
Just like the example I justmentioned, two things With your
conscious effort, you can change, meaning you can make a better
choice every time.
When you cultivate yourattention which, just like Eric
mentioned, pay attention to themoment in your life that you are
(30:46):
, just you know switch to thereaction.
Actually, that's the point thatyou should be paying attention
to and that gives you the secondchance to change it.
So when I was just about tojump to give up on my breakfast
to play with my son, I sit backdown because I caught the
attention saying no, if I goplay with my son right now, I
(31:12):
will be fake selfless ah and Idon't want that and you will
build resentment towards kaya,our son.
Yes, our son and I will be like,oh, I'm sacrificing my, my
breakfast, and why you notacting the way I want you to do?
Eric (31:28):
you know the whole judging the whole time yeah, the whole
bad, negative cycle starts.
Anita (31:33):
Yeah, what you can do is just simply make the choice.
Honey, I'm sorry, you alreadyfinished your breakfast and I
think Mama deserves a quiet timeto finish my breakfast, and
when I finish I'll play with you.
Simply just say that.
Eric (31:51):
No matter what, there will be a consequence.
Yes, but the consequence hereis temporary discomfort for the
other person.
However, you will be in a stateof satisfaction and because of
that, you will be able to givemore positivity later.
Anita (32:09):
So this is the interaction just between you and
your son and my son and me.
He will learn a little bitdiscomfort, but he builds
respect to others.
Not always about him, him, him,him, him, even though I'm the
mother figure.
So he will learn self-value.
(32:30):
He will learn thecharacteristic that he has to
have to respect others.
And once you do more not justin your family with others,
people will learn.
The previous example about myfriend's birthday I built this
value.
Say, hey, that's the boundary.
I need to be who I am first.
(32:50):
Then the friend will learn.
The next time he will enforcehimself to come to my party and
build a resentment towards me.
And the more you do it, youbring more positive energy to
others.
The people will start to alignwith your self-value.
It's because you started doingit.
Eric (33:10):
Not only that, but people will also understand your
boundary, and those who canrespect the boundary will be
true friends or true people thatyou want in your life if
they're not yeah oh, I'm just.
The last thing I was just gonnasay was uh, I know we're both
very excited about this.
Yes, yes, the only other thingis that if they respect it, then
(33:33):
you are going to also start tohave more interactions with
people who you actually want tospend time with, because they
are respecting you, you'rerespecting them.
You have created this balanceinside of your life with people
who actually care Right, and soyou have become more aligned
with not only yourself, but theenvironment.
(33:55):
Your win, win win right Allthree.
Anita (33:59):
This is a high five here.
Eric (34:01):
Yes.
So, that's it right there.
So I want to dive into the lasttopic of today's episode and
just keep in mind we're onlygoing to be touching it today.
It's going to be surface level.
Okay, we're not going to divedeep into this, because it
deserves its own episode.
(34:21):
And we respect it that muchwhere we're going to be giving
you a complete episode about it.
That's values.
Okay, so in order to understandyourself, you have to break the
self down.
Okay, what is the self?
And, in reality, self comesdown to a couple things, but the
(34:42):
biggest thing that we're goingto talk about is values, and how
do you understand what yourvalues are?
And so we're going to bring toanother episode.
What is value?
What are ways for you tounderstand your value and how
can you go about learning moreabout your value as time goes on
(35:03):
?
Because it's not a one dayfigure out solving situation,
because values, just like theself, is huge.
Okay, it's in every aspect ofyour life, and so if you start
to understand at least some ofthem, that means the other ones
will easily come to yourattention.
So if you just practice thisand learn from what we're about
(35:24):
to teach you in the futureepisode, trust me, it's totally
worth it, because it willcompletely redirect your life in
the direction that you believeinside yourself to be authentic,
and that will make this wholeselfishness and selflessness
problem disappear, becauseyou're no longer looking at the
(35:45):
spectrum.
The spectrum will disappear, itwill just be about what is it
that I value right?
And that means what is myself?
Who am I?
I am my values.
Anita (35:57):
Yes.
So back to the topic, theselfish and selfless.
And then if someone says Iwould also like to serve others,
it's definitely a good behaviorright, absolutely.
So back to my examples.
If I understand my self-valuewhich is the breakfast examples,
my examples if I understand myself-value, which is the
(36:19):
breakfast examples, then I willbe giving more to my son later
on because I satisfied myself.
I can have more love, morepositive energy to give to
others.
So this is the balance of it.
But if you are seeing yourselfhaving a difficult time to, for
example, open up to others or toserve others, there are some
(36:42):
ideas that you can.
There's some practice that youcan do to your life, because you
know that's what we are herefor.
We are, we're here to serve.
Right?
If today, like I don't rememberhow many times that, when we
are not feeling ourselves, wesay we're not doing this episode
because we wouldn't be sendingout the positive energy,
(37:03):
absolutely because we'll be like, oh my god, I'm so tired.
Why am I doing this?
Right?
That's so many times.
That's the idea that I have inmy head it'sless.
Yes, so there are a few waysthat you can do which is keep
yourself some inspiration.
There are a few things that youcan do.
The first one is engaging theart, like it just gives you a
(37:27):
life, different perspective.
Like, oh my God, I've never,because most of the arts they
are like beyond the realityworld.
So, they give you a differentperspective and learning
something new, learning a newlanguage, learning a new
language, experience, exot icfood.
Eric (37:47):
Yes.
Anita (37:48):
This kind of new experience.
Eric (37:50):
Yes.
Anita (37:50):
Right.
Eric (37:51):
Absolutely.
Anita (37:52):
Yes, and the last one is my personal favorite when I
don't, when I just don't youknow just when I've noticed
myself closed up, I also act onselfish behavior, but in a
negative way.
Okay, so this one I foundmyself like this I will always
go outside to nature, becausewhen you go to nature, you're
(38:15):
just like we are part of theworld.
And this world is so big.
What am I doing with myself inmy own room?
Eric (38:24):
your face is so funny.
I love it.
Anita (38:26):
T hat's my realization face, that's.
That's always very quick fix forthis kind of closed up,
narrow-mindedminded idea aboutyou know, like being selfish or
like have all these questionsabout what is my self-value.
You know those kind of things.
You just go outside, have freshair, seeing some nature, and
(38:46):
then, yeah, you're given newlife experience and then those
are all beyond self.
Then you started to figure itout.
Oh, you open up the possibilityand then you are all beyond
self.
Then you started to figure itout.
Oh, you open up the possibility.
Then you start thinking aboutwhat is really self.
So keep in mind, this is notjust like one-time homework.
It's not like you figure it outone time and you're just going
to do it for the rest of yourlife.
(39:08):
It's constantly changing.
Oh yeah.
Constant practice.
That's why it's reallybeautiful, because you learn new
things all the time aboutyourself.
Eric (39:17):
That's so true and it's great because, no matter what,
if you are waking up every dayand you're learning something
new, that means you have grownand involved just a bit more to
understanding yourself on thisdeeper level.
Our intention here is for youto deep dive into the self
quickly so that you can take alot of those extra steps out of
(39:40):
the way, because if youunderstand self first and you
work from there, then everyother step afterwards is going
to be a piece of cake, becauseyou're going to be following the
inner map, your heart Right.
And so Hanina made someexamples.
I just want to give you aclarification of some that we
would love.
So, if you want to do art, oneof our great listeners, fifi
(40:02):
shout out to her is an artistthat we will be doing a little
video on Taiwanica Instagram foreveryone to see.
If you want to see some greatart.
That's a great example for food, exotic food.
If you live in taichung, or ifyou want to go to taichung, you
gotta try bella roma as anexample of exotic food,
(40:25):
authentic italian food made by alocal italian named mario great
guy.
You must drink in order to buyit, though, so just keep in mind
that you will have a have tohave a glass of wine with it,
but totally worth it.
Anita (40:39):
Yes, One glass is not enough.
Oh my gosh.
Eric (40:42):
This lady, and she doesn't even drink, which is surprising
.
And then, with languages, youknow where to look for Amazing
Talker with Anita and Eric.
We're always here for you toimprove your language and your
emotional healing skills yourlanguage and your emotional
healing skills.
So these are definitely avenuesthat you can easily walk down
to order to understand the selfeven more.
If you want to look for thingsthat are free, oh man, just make
(41:04):
some great food yourself.
Go down to nature like.
Anita said or paint your ownpainting, because it's no matter
what, you will achieve thisself-realization.
So that's the only thing else Iwanted to say.
Anita (41:18):
Yes, thank you so much, eric.
Eric (41:20):
Yes, and thank you, anita.
I think today was a wonderfulepisode.
Anita (41:24):
Definitely.
I'm pretty sure this will giveyou new ideas about how to live
your life, because our mainpurpose for this episode is to
break free from those just two.
Eric (41:37):
you know, the gray area area, yeah, this whole spectrum
right, yes, the whole spectrumright, just get out of this gray
zone of like, what if I'm doingthis?
Am I doing that because thisquestion alone is worry in other
words, it's fear, and fear isjust false evidence appearing
real, and so if you're thinkingthat that is actually you, let
me tell you it's not okay sojust realize that you are trying
(42:03):
your best to be who you want tobe figuring out what your
self-value is is far moreimportant than being selfish or
selfless exactly, and once youknow what that is then being
selfish in some moments andselfless Exactly, and once you
know what that is, then beingselfish in some moments and
selfless in other moments makessense, you know why you're doing
it which is realization onceagain.
Anita (42:26):
What a great episode.
Eric (42:27):
Yes, great episode.
Glad you're all here to listento it.
If you liked it, definitelygive us a thumbs up on Spotify
or leave us a comment on ApplePodcasts.
That would be awesome.
Yes.
And then, yeah, you know whereto find us on Instagram and
buymeacoffeecom for any support.
We love coffee.
We're actually drinking bubblemilk tea these days, so if you
want to help us get some boba inmy belly, you can still support
(42:50):
us on buymeacoffeecom.
Forward slash Taiwanica.
Okay, we'll see you next time.
Bye, bye-bye.
This is Episode 75, talking about selfishness and
how it affects you on a dailylife.
What's up everybody.
Welcome back to TaiwanicaPodcast.
My name is Eric, one of thehosts here, and I am proud to
announce and celebrate the 75thepisode, a huge milestone for
(00:26):
Taiwanica.
And to celebrate it with me isthe other wonderful host, anita.
What's up.
Anita (00:34):
Hello everybody, my name is Anita.
Welcome back to Taiwanica.
Thank you all.
So much for all the listeningsand support.
Without you we wouldn't make itthrough 75 episodes.
It's a big deal.
Thank you all.
Eric (00:49):
It is, it is.
We have gone through a lot inthis journey a lot of changes, a
lot of tears, a lot of laughter.
But here is to the next 75episodes of Taiwanica.
Yes, we are proud to keep ongoing because of all of your
positive support throughout allof this.
So, now that we have celebratedthe change and the big moments
(01:11):
of Taiwanica, we're going tostop being selfish for a second
and go ahead and dive intotoday's episode, which is all
about this key word thateveryone knows about but not
really know what it means, right?
Anita (01:29):
Yes, the re will be a general idea.
Like we know, when we've beencalled that we don't necessarily
happy about it.
But today we will be sharingsome other aspects, like from
the deeper level.
Yes.
So it's very inspiring mypersonal opinion, so I can't
wait to share to all of you.
Eric (01:50):
Absolutely.
Me too.
This word has been somethingthat growing up has been
difficult for, I think, manypeople.
But when you really get a graspof what actually is selfishness
and its counterpart, its friendselflessness, which we'll also
be talking about in this episode, you really get an idea that
(02:13):
selfishness actually has value,and also selflessness has its
value to some degree, and sowe're going to help you
(02:34):
understand these points as bestas we can with the knowledge
that we have learned.
So we're really excited for youto understand this information,
really excited for you tounderstand this information.
Make sure you stay tuned untilthe very end of this episode,
because one of the mostimportant parts of understanding
this information will beexplained there by itself.
So we're really excited aboutthis.
(02:54):
Let's go ahead and dive on in.
We're going to start broad withselfishness.
Anita, what do you think, inyour experience as a Taiwanese
and as a woman, what isselfishness?
Anita (03:08):
Well, basically it's do something for yourself.
Only that's selfish.
Grew up in a family that's allabout self being selfless.
You know the mother that you saw.
The mother figure devoted herentire life to the family and
she kept on repeating, like whenshe was young she had those
(03:28):
dreams but she was never able toachieve them because she chose
to be a mother.
So this idea family values keepon repeating in our head, just
like a record playing in ourhead, just automatically
engraving in our brains, like arecord playing our heads,
automatically engraving ourbrains like selfish is bad,
selfless is good because youserve others, you sacrifice
(03:53):
yourself.
Okay, but when I grew up, I'vebeen called selfish from my
mother a few time and I, when Iwas being called selfish, I was
actually feel very guilty andbelieve that I am a selfish
person, Right.
So selfish basically is just dothe things for yourself.
Eric (04:17):
Okay, what's an example of that?
Anita (04:18):
Okay, After I graduate from university, I choose to
move out from my parents' houseto raise myself you know, like
make the income and raise myselfand to live the lifestyle that
I want and instead of stay home,give money to my parents, raise
them, stay as a family.
(04:39):
So once I made a decision to dothe things I really want for
myself, my mother called meselfish.
So throughout the whole timeI've been thinking selfish is a
bad thing.
But now, at this point, when Ilook at my life, I had no
regrets about making thosedecisions and I actually are
(05:01):
doing the things I really wantand I put in an effort to it.
So for me, selfish is notnecessarily a bad thing.
Eric (05:11):
Okay, but in your society, and especially in your family,
being selfish in this way isconsidered wrong.
Anita (05:21):
It's wrong.
So that's the broad idea.
Most people think about selfishas a bad thing.
Eric (05:27):
Okay, I just want to take that idea and then bring it into
an American point of view andI'm going to represent men in
the United States.
Okay, so selfishness in theUnited States is part of our
culture.
It's being individualized as aperson inside the United States
is how we grow up.
(05:47):
We are designed to beindependent.
That's what our whole aspect oflife is.
But and this is a big but beingindividual and independent has
its benefits as an American hasits benefits as an American.
(06:10):
But we still have this idea thatif we do too much on our own,
without considering others notspecifically our family, but
more inside of our circle offriends or our work and the
aspects that we have to beinvolved involved in we can
easily be afraid of beingselfish, which is taken to the
aspect of, instead of not beingable to do the actions that we
(06:31):
want to do, it's more about howdo we represent ourselves inside
of those groups.
So, if I want to, for example inthe united states, if I'm in a
circle of friends and I want todo the only like the activities
that I want to do Like, so, forexample, when I was younger, I
really loved to skateboardlongboard and some of my friends
(06:54):
really don't like doing that.
They said hey, Eric, let's golike play video games or let's
go watch a movie.
I'd be like, no, I would ratherlongboard.
I'd be like, no, I would ratherlongboard.
They would consider me selfishat some point because if they
came and did longboarding withme many times but I didn't go
and do their activity, then Iwould be considered selfish.
(07:16):
So it's a give and take kind ofaspect with selfishness in the
United States, but with familyusually it's not that case,
which I think is a little bitdifferent from Taiwan.
It's that in the United Statesgenerally we want you to leave.
We want you to get out, yeah,and I think the reason for that
(07:37):
is because we want you to grow,right.
But the thing is is, at thesame time, the parents want you
out.
So when's?
But the thing is is, at thesame time, the parents want you
out.
So when you consider theparents selfish in this
situation because they're likeI'm done being a parent, you
know, go out and do your ownthing, right.
So this is the thing, though.
Right is that?
Because if you look at it fromthe perspective of everyone,
(08:00):
right?
You would think that theparents are being selfish here,
throwing out an 18 year old kidinto the middle of nowhere.
Yeah, they don't have anyability, skills or anything.
You're like, you're on your own, but mom, close the door.
It's like that.
That's happened, you know it'slike you're 18, you're done, and
that's in some people's pointsof view, on a general level,
(08:23):
that is selfish, exactly Right,and so that's a in some people's
points of view on a generallevel that is selfish.
Exactly Right, and so that's avery interesting perspective.
That's a little bit different.
Anita (08:29):
Right yeah, Because you know Asian family, like in Asian
culture, families, iseverything.
It's the most important thing.
So we always emphasize theunity inside a family, right?
So you know, everybody in thefamily is selfless and that's
good.
If someone is doing somethingfor their own purpose or for
(08:50):
their own good, that's selfish.
Yeah, right.
So after we explained thegeneral idea and the broad idea,
we wanted to dive into thedeeper level.
Yeah, right.
So, based on my story, like Isaid, if you do things in your
own way for your own happiness,good.
If you should say that for yourown good, then that's selfish.
(09:13):
So, based on my understandingof this word, my past experience
and the culture I grew up, Iwould say selfish is not 100%
the bad thing and you shouldlook at selfish and selfless not
just black and white, not justright or wrong.
It's about how you choose andhow do we choose.
(09:34):
It's based on our personalvalue, would you say so?
Eric (09:38):
Absolutely, and that's something that I think we should
definitely dive in deeper withthe self-value in a moment here,
but one of the things that Iwould like to bring up is that
separation of selfish andselfless, that black and white
that you just mentioned.
The big thing that a lot ofpeople think is that if I'm not
being selfish, therefore I amselfless.
(09:59):
Right, it's one or another.
You're jumping from that sideto the other side.
There is nothing in between,and that's just not the truth.
The truth is is that there'sthis huge gray zone in the
middle.
Anita (10:12):
The two words itself is gray zones.
Two big gray zones.
Eric (10:15):
Yes, exactly they are.
They are their own gray zones,right, but in reality they are
opposites.
In this point, and the pointthat I'm trying to bring up here
is that if you believe that youare selfless when someone else
is being selfish, this is notnecessarily the case.
You have to realize one bigthing Selfishness is about
(10:40):
understanding your self-value.
Selflessness means that youunderstand your self-value to
the point that you don't careabout it anymore and you are
doing something that might beoutside of yourself in order to
help the greater good, right.
So these two aspects are veryimportant to understand
(11:03):
holistically all around, becausein some situations, doing one
is going to be very importantand the other one is going to
also be very important.
But you have to know the root,and the root is the self, right.
That's why they're in both ofthe words.
It's in selfish and selfless.
(11:23):
What's the key word here?
Self right.
So if we understand what theself is, we'll be able to really
understand this on a greatervalue level.
But right now, I want to justdive in a bit more of some
examples that we can share aboutwhen is it okay to be selfish?
Okay, do you have any examplesthat you'd like to share?
Anita (11:44):
Well, like we mentioned right, For example, if my friend
has like a birthday party, youknow, as a good friend, I should
be joining their birthday party, but it just so happened that
day.
I don't feel like myself.
I would like to take some timejust for myself.
Even I don't do anything, Ijust stay home, you know, play
(12:05):
with my son or read some books,drink a cup of tea.
Just take some time for myself.
I just don't feel like I wantedto go to my friend's birthday.
Is that selfish?
Yes, it is, I would say so.
Maybe this friend was really,you know, very looking forward
to see me in his or her birthdayparty.
Well, maybe this friend, youknow, celebrated my birthday
(12:28):
party, celebrated my birthdaybefore, but on that day I just
made the decision to be selfishbecause I know if today I force
myself to do the things asunwillingly which join the
birthday party, I wouldn't beengaged in the way as authentic
(12:50):
self, I wouldn't be as joyful asI should be at that occasion
and I might just startcomplaining about oh my God, why
am I wasting my time?
Or started to pick up thethings I can complain about?
Just because this resentment Ihave towards myself, because I
didn't make the decision formyself first, I forced myself,
(13:13):
against my personal will, to dothis thing, just so I cannot be
called selfish.
Right.
And then I have the wholeresentment, maybe towards to my
friends.
Eric (13:23):
Yeah, you build this negativity towards them.
Anita (13:25):
Exactly so.
When you started to feel thenegative emotion towards to
either selfish or selflessbehavior, that's when you
started to pay more attention toit.
Eric (13:39):
So expanding on your example, because I think it's
very clear on understanding whatis selfishness, is that by you
not going to the party or theoccasion, that you know that
there is going to be aconsequence, but irregardless of
that consequence, you believethat if you are being selfish in
(14:01):
this moment, you're actuallydoing something that is more
authentic to yourself ratherthan worrying about the result
that is going to happen to theother person.
Right?
So that's why I think this isthe word selfishness.
Right, because you're focusingcompletely on the self.
Right, you're not worried aboutthe other person or the
(14:25):
scenario that happens there.
Right, and that's a choice.
That's a choice that you made.
And so let's say, on the otherhand, you do go to that party,
even though you don't want to go.
This is an act of selflessness,right?
Yeah, and so what would be thebenefit made here?
Anita (14:45):
I showed up as my friend wanted and I'd be part of the
he's or her birthday party, asthe other person wanted, and
that's it.
Eric (14:57):
So the benefit is completely outside of yourself.
Exactly, selflessness, yes,right, so you are doing
something completely for someoneelse, irregardless of how you
feel within, exactly.
So there is a benefit of doingthat in some scenarios not this
(15:18):
scenario, not the one that youjust mentioned, but in other
scenarios there could be.
Some examples that I can thinkof are like being a doctor, and
especially doctors who work inthird world countries like
Africa.
Okay, they are completely doingthat from a selfless point of
view.
They're not making a lot ofmoney, they're not gaining a lot
of benefits, they're not livingin a nice house.
(15:39):
The thing that they're gainingin this selfless action is to
help others completely.
Firefighters is another greatexample.
They're risking their entirelives to help other people by
saving them from fire.
Right, this is another selflessact, right?
So in these examples that wecan see, there's no sense of
(16:02):
selfishness that we can clearlysee.
Right, but do you believe thatinside them there is any
selfishness at all?
Definitely, definitely.
What is that them?
Anita (16:13):
there is any selfishness at all.
Definitely, Definitely.
What is that?
Our actions, life choices, big,small career or act on your
self-preference.
We have this selfish tendency.
Those people, you said it rightselfless behavior, but their
intention, what was theirintention?
They must enjoy what they weredoing right, that's where the
(16:35):
selfishness comes in, exactly sotheir life decision, for most
of people, which is general idea, is selfless, but their
intention, they must have beenenjoying doing it and it's good.
That's good.
They're being selfish aboutchoosing those life career they
want, right.
So this is a perfect balance,which is the idea I wanted to
(16:58):
brought up.
It's no good or bad, it's justabout balance.
So today, if you, you know,being a doctor, firefighter, for
most people think it's selflessbecause they put their life
into, you know, in otherscenarios or in other people's
hands, like third world country,you don't know what would
happen, but they act on itbecause they can get self, you
(17:22):
know, sense of achievement orsense of fulfillment, whatever
that is.
That's their selfishness.
So this is a perfect balance.
So, they should coexist in thiscase in this case, right.
Eric (17:35):
So this is where the key word that we're going to bring
up is how they understandthemselves.
Right, the self once again,like they, these kind of people
who are doing these actions,hopefully right like maybe they
don't know, but ideally they areunderstanding who their self is
and that they understand theirself, then they are capable of
(18:00):
making actions that will notonly be beneficial for
themselves, but simultaneouslybeing helpful for others, and
this is the key word that Iwanted to bring up today, which
is called a win-win-win scenario.
What's a win-win-win scenario,anita?
Anita (18:19):
You know, we usually say win-win Right.
I said three though.
Eric (18:23):
Yeah, it's not win-win, it's a win-win-win Three wins.
Anita (18:28):
So basically, when we are having a conversation that
conflicts, like we have settledthe idea when.
What is our next vacationlocation, for example, yeah, I
want to go to France, you wantedto go to Russia?
Eric and Anita (18:41):
God, I do not want to go to Russia, just for
the record.
Yes, I do not want to go.
Eric (18:49):
Oh hey, russians are great .
They are great.
I love Russians.
Anita (18:52):
They just great.
I love Russians.
They just have a lot of history.
Eric (18:55):
I don't like cold places Okay, and Russia, you are cold
Okay.
Anita (19:00):
They have vodka.
Eric (19:01):
That's my least favorite alcohol, so it's not a suitable
place for me.
Anita (19:06):
Anyways, yes, so in this case, if we say, oh, everyone's
go to Russia, I want to go toParis, and finally we made the
conclusions is win for Eric andwin for me, then will be the
best situation, right, right, ifwe just choose to go to Paris
for example, it will just be winfor me, wouldn't be win for
Eric.
Right.
(19:27):
Okay.
So the basic win-win situationyou already know Win for you,
win for others.
The other one is win for theenvironment everyone involved,
exactly everything involved, isalso winning so, like the
doctors and firefighterssituation, win for themselves
because they choose the lifepaths they want, win for others
(19:47):
because they save others and winfor the world, the world
country.
They need more than people likethis Fire.
They need firefighters to savethe environment.
Eric (19:56):
Right.
Anita (19:57):
In this case, it's a win-win-win scenario.
Eric (19:59):
Exactly, and these are really good examples of this,
and that's why some of thesepeople have the biggest sense of
fulfillment.
According to statistics, bothof them are in the top 10 of the
most happy careers that youcould have, and there's a reason
for it.
It's because they have thewin-win-win scenario.
But this doesn't mean you haveto go and quit your job right
(20:22):
now and go be a firefighter orbe a doctor.
Anita (20:24):
Because that wouldn't be a win for yourself if it's not
authentic.
Eric (20:27):
It's not authentic, right.
So you need to understand whatis your self-value, which?
Is what we're going to expandon.
This is the key word today andwhat is it going to connect with
?
With other people, and how doesthat connection with other
people also relate to theenvironment that you're in three
(20:49):
points with yourself.
Then you have created thebalance of selflessness and
selfishness, In other words, theself right.
So that dives into somethingthat I wanted to touch a little
bit before we get into value.
I think we're kind of avoidingit a little bit.
I want to give it someattention, and that is
(21:09):
selflessness.
Okay, so let's talk about it.
What is selflessness, based onyour perspective and perspective
of Taiwan?
Anita (21:19):
Selflessness is when you, as a server, you give, you
serve others.
Simple as that, as a family Ialready mentioned about.
Like in Asian Taiwaneseeseculture, selfless is live for
others.
When you are, you choose yourmajor in college.
You should choose the one thatmakes the most money, has the
(21:43):
brighter future, hence why youcan support your family, which
is the original family againit's close to the family aspect,
because it's the most importantpart of our culture.
So selflessness is basically youmade a decision for others,
serve others and just put yourpurpose to others.
(22:05):
That's selfless.
Eric (22:09):
Back to the family aspect and also, whatever decision
you're making, you are being agood Taiwanese citizen if you
are considering a future thatrelates to or is no matter what
connected to your family in someway or another.
And this is just a general idea.
(22:30):
Right, this isn't for everyTaiwanese, but this is something
that you can definitely seeinside of Taiwanese culture,
right?
And so now I want to ask youwhy but I know we don't want to
get too deep into that rabbithole, but what do you think is
something that really is pushingthis selflessness?
Is it because of family sayingif you don't do this, we'll all
(22:52):
suffer?
Anita (23:03):
Or do you think it could be something completely
different?
Or what is your opinion Forothers?
We live for others.
Eric (23:11):
Live for others.
Anita (23:12):
Enhance why we can have a bigger and stronger community,
a group, any kind of group thatyou can think about at school
family.
If the family is all strong andstick together, that means
they're good.
And if you need to sticktogether and only stick together
as a group, it requires unifiedeverybody, meaning we don't
(23:36):
have much space for individualto exist.
So most of the decision thatwe're making is for others, like
, oh, we moved to this countrybecause, oh, we moved to this
city.
Or move here because I livecloser to my parents.
I can, you know, take care ofthem.
Or the parents move closer totheir kids because they wanted
(23:58):
to be around when the kids needthem.
Or, you know, any kind ofdecision is based on the belief
that we believe.
The value that we believe isunity.
Eric (24:10):
And unity is not necessarily a bad thing, but
unity and selflessness are kindof combined, yeah, in this value
that you're talking about.
So a root value in taiwan,based on your, your perspective
of taiwan, is that that if youwant to be a good taiwanese, you
(24:31):
need to have this intertwinedvalue of selflessness and
unification with your family, nomatter what.
Anita (24:40):
Yes.
Eric (24:40):
So they are, no matter what, going to basically be one
with each other, and they can'tlive without each other.
Anita (24:50):
And sacrifice is a very big big part of our culture.
Sacrifice is always good.
Eric (24:59):
Yeah, it's similar to selflessness right Right.
Yeah, it makes sense.
So, yeah, I think if I were totake that and bring it over to
the United States is that Iwould say that selflessness is
similar to some phrases or termsthat we have in the United
States.
One of them is being a doormat.
That's really common to saytowards a lady.
(25:19):
For men it's like Mr Nice Guyor yes, man.
No.
There's even a movie by JimCarrey about that kind of
perspective on life and thesekind of people, and I know quite
a few of them.
One of my dearest friends livesa life like this, and this kind
of lifestyle is based on fearin the United States, and it's
(25:44):
not because of the necessitywith family, it's more based on
the fear that if I don't, then Iwill be alone, and this is
something that is a hugepandemic inside as the opposite
of selfishness.
Because of that, we're thinking, okay, I must, I'll be a very
(26:19):
good american citizen if I sayyes to everything, and so this
is totally not true.
But then again it just comesdown to this root again of what
is what is self right?
Anita (26:32):
that reminds me of one thing like selflessness also
give us the idea, like we don't.
We always think we are not goodenough if we are not being
selfless.
So, on the other hand, is weonly depending on other people's
needs, that if we can provideother people's needs, then I am
(26:54):
good?
Yes I have value, like you knowmother figure.
If I sacrifice enough, beingselfless to all of my kids or
all my family, I am a good mom,right?
So this is like our word, onlydepending on.
I I'm not saying serve othersis a bad thing, I'm just saying
(27:17):
you only serve that to gainself-value.
That's where the problem is.
Eric (27:25):
Right.
You're trying to achieveself-value from an outward
perspective, so like doingthings outside of your inner
body to achieve something thatonly temporarily gives you that
sense of achievement.
Right.
But in reality, the only way tohave value within is to know
(27:45):
what your values are and thenfollowing those actions.
Right, so sometimes you knowevery day we're probably doing
those, you know.
But the idea is that do youknow what actions you're doing
each day that are triggeringthose, are activating those
values inside you?
Yeah, that's what we're goingto talk about next time.
Okay, but yes, great point,very great point.
(28:07):
Uh, is there something elsethat you want to mention here?
Anita (28:10):
yeah, because I think, now that we were going down to
this, the biggest question islike how you know, then, you
guys are talking about this somuch, so what should we do?
Right, right.
It's about some practice thatyou can apply to your life, and
I just wanted to share one of mypersonal ideas.
Go ahead.
(28:31):
Because I grew up in a familyselfless is good, selfish is bad
.
So I've seen my mothersacrifice herself all the time
constantly for children.
So right now I don't want to belike that, right, because we
are both of us are searching forself-value, and that is about
(28:51):
balance.
So sometimes, when I was takingcare of our son, I do
everything for him first in themorning, I prepare his breakfast
first, and when it's my turn toeat, the moment I sit down, he
will start asking because healready finished his breakfast,
right, so he's ready to likeplay or whatever he wants to do.
He will be like mama read ormama play, my instant action
(29:15):
react.
I would react.
And will be like mama read ormama play, my instant action
react.
I would reaction will be yes, I, I shouldn't be eating right
now my baby needs me you know.
So that's what.
Eric (29:25):
What we mentioned about earlier is that it's like a you
know, the broken recordengraving your brain that you
should be this way right ifyou're not, you are selfish, you
are bad, you're equals, you'rea bad mother so you already can
see right something that'shappening unconsciously exactly
all the time in your life.
Anita (29:44):
Yeah, isn't that fascinating so fascinating,
scary at the same time.
Eric (29:48):
But that's the thing is that you just had a realization,
yes, and now that you have therealization, you can take action
on it, and that's what we'retrying to achieve for everyone
listening right now is that whatis a moment in your daily life
it's happening, it's happeningevery day, and what is it in
your life that is causing you tobe selfless, but not in a way
(30:10):
that you would enjoy?
Right?
If you know what that is, thengreat.
Now you know where to start.
Anita (30:17):
Yes.
So again, we are not convincingyou to choose side, to choose
to be selfish all the time orselfless all the time.
Eric (30:24):
No, not at all.
Anita (30:25):
It's about balance.
So how do we do this?
Just like the example I justmentioned, two things With your
conscious effort, you can change, meaning you can make a better
choice every time.
When you cultivate yourattention which, just like Eric
mentioned, pay attention to themoment in your life that you are
(30:46):
, just you know switch to thereaction.
Actually, that's the point thatyou should be paying attention
to and that gives you the secondchance to change it.
So when I was just about tojump to give up on my breakfast
to play with my son, I sit backdown because I caught the
attention saying no, if I goplay with my son right now, I
(31:12):
will be fake selfless ah and Idon't want that and you will
build resentment towards kaya,our son.
Yes, our son and I will be like,oh, I'm sacrificing my, my
breakfast, and why you notacting the way I want you to do?
Eric (31:28):
you know the whole judging the whole time yeah, the whole
bad, negative cycle starts.
Anita (31:33):
Yeah, what you can do is just simply make the choice.
Honey, I'm sorry, you alreadyfinished your breakfast and I
think Mama deserves a quiet timeto finish my breakfast, and
when I finish I'll play with you.
Simply just say that.
Eric (31:51):
No matter what, there will be a consequence.
Yes, but the consequence hereis temporary discomfort for the
other person.
However, you will be in a stateof satisfaction and because of
that, you will be able to givemore positivity later.
Anita (32:09):
So this is the interaction just between you and
your son and my son and me.
He will learn a little bitdiscomfort, but he builds
respect to others.
Not always about him, him, him,him, him, even though I'm the
mother figure.
So he will learn self-value.
(32:30):
He will learn thecharacteristic that he has to
have to respect others.
And once you do more not justin your family with others,
people will learn.
The previous example about myfriend's birthday I built this
value.
Say, hey, that's the boundary.
I need to be who I am first.
(32:50):
Then the friend will learn.
The next time he will enforcehimself to come to my party and
build a resentment towards me.
And the more you do it, youbring more positive energy to
others.
The people will start to alignwith your self-value.
It's because you started doingit.
Eric (33:10):
Not only that, but people will also understand your
boundary, and those who canrespect the boundary will be
true friends or true people thatyou want in your life if
they're not yeah oh, I'm just.
The last thing I was just gonnasay was uh, I know we're both
very excited about this.
Yes, yes, the only other thingis that if they respect it, then
(33:33):
you are going to also start tohave more interactions with
people who you actually want tospend time with, because they
are respecting you, you'rerespecting them.
You have created this balanceinside of your life with people
who actually care Right, and soyou have become more aligned
with not only yourself, but theenvironment.
(33:55):
Your win, win win right Allthree.
Anita (33:59):
This is a high five here.
Eric (34:01):
Yes.
So, that's it right there.
So I want to dive into the lasttopic of today's episode and
just keep in mind we're onlygoing to be touching it today.
It's going to be surface level.
Okay, we're not going to divedeep into this, because it
deserves its own episode.
(34:21):
And we respect it that muchwhere we're going to be giving
you a complete episode about it.
That's values.
Okay, so in order to understandyourself, you have to break the
self down.
Okay, what is the self?
And, in reality, self comesdown to a couple things, but the
(34:42):
biggest thing that we're goingto talk about is values, and how
do you understand what yourvalues are?
And so we're going to bring toanother episode.
What is value?
What are ways for you tounderstand your value and how
can you go about learning moreabout your value as time goes on
(35:03):
?
Because it's not a one dayfigure out solving situation,
because values, just like theself, is huge.
Okay, it's in every aspect ofyour life, and so if you start
to understand at least some ofthem, that means the other ones
will easily come to yourattention.
So if you just practice thisand learn from what we're about
(35:24):
to teach you in the futureepisode, trust me, it's totally
worth it, because it willcompletely redirect your life in
the direction that you believeinside yourself to be authentic,
and that will make this wholeselfishness and selflessness
problem disappear, becauseyou're no longer looking at the
(35:45):
spectrum.
The spectrum will disappear, itwill just be about what is it
that I value right?
And that means what is myself?
Who am I?
I am my values.
Anita (35:57):
Yes.
So back to the topic, theselfish and selfless.
And then if someone says Iwould also like to serve others,
it's definitely a good behaviorright, absolutely.
So back to my examples.
If I understand my self-valuewhich is the breakfast examples,
my examples if I understand myself-value, which is the
(36:19):
breakfast examples, then I willbe giving more to my son later
on because I satisfied myself.
I can have more love, morepositive energy to give to
others.
So this is the balance of it.
But if you are seeing yourselfhaving a difficult time to, for
example, open up to others or toserve others, there are some
(36:42):
ideas that you can.
There's some practice that youcan do to your life, because you
know that's what we are herefor.
We are, we're here to serve.
Right?
If today, like I don't rememberhow many times that, when we
are not feeling ourselves, wesay we're not doing this episode
because we wouldn't be sendingout the positive energy,
(37:03):
absolutely because we'll be like, oh my god, I'm so tired.
Why am I doing this?
Right?
That's so many times.
That's the idea that I have inmy head it'sless.
Yes, so there are a few waysthat you can do which is keep
yourself some inspiration.
There are a few things that youcan do.
The first one is engaging theart, like it just gives you a
(37:27):
life, different perspective.
Like, oh my God, I've never,because most of the arts they
are like beyond the realityworld.
So, they give you a differentperspective and learning
something new, learning a newlanguage, learning a new
language, experience, exot icfood.
Eric (37:47):
Yes.
Anita (37:48):
This kind of new experience.
Eric (37:50):
Yes.
Anita (37:50):
Right.
Eric (37:51):
Absolutely.
Anita (37:52):
Yes, and the last one is my personal favorite when I
don't, when I just don't youknow just when I've noticed
myself closed up, I also act onselfish behavior, but in a
negative way.
Okay, so this one I foundmyself like this I will always
go outside to nature, becausewhen you go to nature, you're
(38:15):
just like we are part of theworld.
And this world is so big.
What am I doing with myself inmy own room?
Eric (38:24):
your face is so funny.
I love it.
Anita (38:26):
T hat's my realization face, that's.
That's always very quick fix forthis kind of closed up,
narrow-mindedminded idea aboutyou know, like being selfish or
like have all these questionsabout what is my self-value.
You know those kind of things.
You just go outside, have freshair, seeing some nature, and
(38:46):
then, yeah, you're given newlife experience and then those
are all beyond self.
Then you started to figure itout.
Oh, you open up the possibilityand then you are all beyond
self.
Then you started to figure itout.
Oh, you open up the possibility.
Then you start thinking aboutwhat is really self.
So keep in mind, this is notjust like one-time homework.
It's not like you figure it outone time and you're just going
to do it for the rest of yourlife.
(39:08):
It's constantly changing.
Oh yeah.
Constant practice.
That's why it's reallybeautiful, because you learn new
things all the time aboutyourself.
Eric (39:17):
That's so true and it's great because, no matter what,
if you are waking up every dayand you're learning something
new, that means you have grownand involved just a bit more to
understanding yourself on thisdeeper level.
Our intention here is for youto deep dive into the self
quickly so that you can take alot of those extra steps out of
(39:40):
the way, because if youunderstand self first and you
work from there, then everyother step afterwards is going
to be a piece of cake, becauseyou're going to be following the
inner map, your heart Right.
And so Hanina made someexamples.
I just want to give you aclarification of some that we
would love.
So, if you want to do art, oneof our great listeners, fifi
(40:02):
shout out to her is an artistthat we will be doing a little
video on Taiwanica Instagram foreveryone to see.
If you want to see some greatart.
That's a great example for food, exotic food.
If you live in taichung, or ifyou want to go to taichung, you
gotta try bella roma as anexample of exotic food,
(40:25):
authentic italian food made by alocal italian named mario great
guy.
You must drink in order to buyit, though, so just keep in mind
that you will have a have tohave a glass of wine with it,
but totally worth it.
Anita (40:39):
Yes, One glass is not enough.
Oh my gosh.
Eric (40:42):
This lady, and she doesn't even drink, which is surprising
.
And then, with languages, youknow where to look for Amazing
Talker with Anita and Eric.
We're always here for you toimprove your language and your
emotional healing skills yourlanguage and your emotional
healing skills.
So these are definitely avenuesthat you can easily walk down
to order to understand the selfeven more.
If you want to look for thingsthat are free, oh man, just make
(41:04):
some great food yourself.
Go down to nature like.
Anita said or paint your ownpainting, because it's no matter
what, you will achieve thisself-realization.
So that's the only thing else Iwanted to say.
Anita (41:18):
Yes, thank you so much, eric.
Eric (41:20):
Yes, and thank you, anita.
I think today was a wonderfulepisode.
Anita (41:24):
Definitely.
I'm pretty sure this will giveyou new ideas about how to live
your life, because our mainpurpose for this episode is to
break free from those just two.
Eric (41:37):
you know, the gray area area, yeah, this whole spectrum
right, yes, the whole spectrumright, just get out of this gray
zone of like, what if I'm doingthis?
Am I doing that because thisquestion alone is worry in other
words, it's fear, and fear isjust false evidence appearing
real, and so if you're thinkingthat that is actually you, let
me tell you it's not okay sojust realize that you are trying
(42:03):
your best to be who you want tobe figuring out what your
self-value is is far moreimportant than being selfish or
selfless exactly, and once youknow what that is then being
selfish in some moments andselfless Exactly, and once you
know what that is, then beingselfish in some moments and
selfless in other moments makessense, you know why you're doing
it which is realization onceagain.
Anita (42:26):
What a great episode.
Eric (42:27):
Yes, great episode.
Glad you're all here to listento it.
If you liked it, definitelygive us a thumbs up on Spotify
or leave us a comment on ApplePodcasts.
That would be awesome.
Yes.
And then, yeah, you know whereto find us on Instagram and
buymeacoffeecom for any support.
We love coffee.
We're actually drinking bubblemilk tea these days, so if you
want to help us get some boba inmy belly, you can still support
(42:50):
us on buymeacoffeecom.
Forward slash Taiwanica.
Okay, we'll see you next time.
Bye, bye-bye.
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