October 27, 2023 • 21 mins
In this episode of Takin' A Walk Buzz Knight is speaking with Jonathan Cohen. Jonathan is the Artistic Director for The Handel + Haydn Society. H and H is an American chorus and period instrument orchestra that has been in continual performance since its founding in 1815. Jonathan Cohen is one of H and H's youngest artistic directors ever.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Taking a Walk.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Music has its demands as well. When we're a musician,
sometimes we're a bit like an actor and we have
to be what the music needs us to be. Sometimes
we have to draw on all our temperamental possibilities to
be able to realize the music. So do's that as
well as who we really are? And two we are
for the music and there's many levels.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome to the Taking a Walk podcast, where your host
Buzz Night features guests that share their stories and speak
of their love of music. On this episode, we explore
the world of chamber music with a man who has
had a remarkable career as a conductor, a cellist, and
a keyboardist. The eighte and H Society was founded in
(00:41):
eighteen fifteen and Jonathan, at the age of forty four,
is one of their youngest artistic directors in history. The
new season of H and H is called What's Old
It's New Again. Let's join Buzz and Jonathan and Boston
on Taking a Walk.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Well, Jonathan, thanks for having me here. Can you describe
what is on this wall here? First?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Jonathan, Well, there's a lot of music there that's all
all nicely organized. Look, there's you and Sebastian Bach's magnificat
mass in g Minor. There's a ton I won't read
out all the names, but there's a lot of repertoire
and music that the organization has been performing for years here.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I'd imagine, Yeah, is it someone's responsibility to put these
in files here?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Oh yeah, I would imagine the Absolutely. We have to
keep a nicely ordered lot of sheet music, you know, musicians,
we write our boeings and markings in there, and so
there's a lot of history in nice pages. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Well, congratulations on the new appointment as the artistic director.
Tell me how it feels. How excited are you?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I'm very excited. It feels great. It's a wonderful chance
to do to do really great music here in Boston
with fantastic musicians. And I'm thrilled to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
And how about just being in Boston in general, and
how does that?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Yeah, it's a fantastic place. I'm very I'm really I
feel a lot of energy here. You know, I don't
know if that's if that's if you feel that too,
but it feels to me that there's a lot of
a lot of love and love for music, a lot
of energy of culture here. It's a it's an exciting place.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
It is I always feel that way coming into the city.
I live out in the suburbs, but coming to Boston
is always a true joy in getting to meet you
is a joy. Since it's called taking a walk. Do
you like taking walks in cities like Boston?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I do. I like walking a lot. It's often walked
to rehessals, and you know, especially if it's a nice
day like today with the sun shining, it's pleasure. I
like hiking as well. I do quite a lot of that.
Something very very healthy and lovely to be outdoors, I think.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
And when you're in the midst of a long day
of rehearsals, is it a welcome moment to just go
clear your head and take a walk?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Absolutely? Yeah, absolutely, yeah. You know, being in one room
all day working, it's nice to get out, isn't it,
and go and find a spot of lunch and nice coffee,
walk around a little bit. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
So talk specifically about some of your background that you
think has essentially really prepared you for this new work
you'll be part of.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah, well I was a cellist to start off with. Well, actually,
that's not entirely. I was a pianist. I started piano
when I was very little, and then I got into
the cello when I was about aged eight, and I,
you know, I did a lot of chamber music. I
think that that helped prepare me a lot, because I
think Barack music is a lot about chamber music. So
(03:53):
I played in string quartets, and I used to go
on summer courses as a kid, to chamber music courses,
you know, playing chamber mus music. And yeah, so so
I found Borock music a little bit later when I
was at Cambridge. I went to university and I studied
music there and I got into the you know, with
the beautiful chapel choirs and the music there. I used
(04:15):
to enjoy putting, putting things together, and I had lots
of friends who were singers and instrumentalists, and I always
sort of, you know, found a nice piece of music
from the library, something a bit interesting, and said, hey,
wonder what this sounds like. Let's get together and play it.
So I was always fascinated with the idea of just
bringing people together to play, to play music that we
didn't know, and that was always my sort of driving
(04:37):
motivation really.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah, and it's still something that you have the same
passion as to when you started.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Absolutely, I always always loved discovering new, new music. And
there's so much music. It's almost like you'll never run
out this in the past. You know, it's music from everywhere.
And that's one of the great pleasures about music really,
it's sort of it's never ending possibilities and new combinations,
(05:07):
of infinite combinations of notes to put together. And you know,
each time we make it, it's we make it. We
make it a new with with people, with different people,
and and you make a note and then it disappears
and it's gone forever, and you then get together and
do it again. That's the great thing about music.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
It So, is there going to be a particular theme
to this new season?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, well, you know, the I think there's we liking.
We very much think that what is what is old
is new again and that's a that's a nice, I
guess summary of what music's all about, really, and especially
baroque music, because it is new again. We pick up
the score and we reinvent it and that's happening all
(05:53):
the time. That's one of the pleasures of doing this
kind of great music.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
So what are typical days like leading up to when
you will be opening?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
So this week's can be very busy. We're opening with
Israel and Egypt by handle On on Friday and Sunday,
first first of the new season, and we'll be rehearsing
phrenetically all week actually, which is great. This is really
diving into this fantastic monumental piece of Handle. The chorus
(06:25):
yesterday we met them for the for the first time
in this piece. They're sounding absolutely fabulous. So we meet
the orchestra today and we'll gradually put it together over
the week. So that's good, a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
How long are the rehearsals.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Three hours generally per rehearsal, and then we do like
two all three of them sometimes a day, and you know,
I'm going around working, you know, we'll put it together.
We'll work the chorus separately and we'll look over things
this sort of little all the details about how to
you know, where we're putting the consonants and ideas about
about the about the music's related to the chorus. And
(07:01):
then today I'll take the orchestra a by itself and
just you know, we'll we'll get to know the music
and look at what concerns the orchestra, and then tomorrow
and the next days we'll start putting it all together,
and it just sort of grows bigger and bigger, and
we sort of zone out, you know, just thinking musically,
less about details and more about the big pictures. As
(07:22):
it grows and grows into the into the performance. I think, is.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
There a little chaos in the process at all?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Well, little chaos never never hurts. It's good. I mean,
you know, it's good to be it's good to be
good to be creative, and I suppose creativity is where
chaos lives. But I try to be as planned as
I can, especially when you're organizing people's times, you know,
because you have to. It would be a little too
chaotic to to be saying, let's rehearse this and then
(07:50):
without the right number of people there, or things like that.
So I try to be as organized as I can be.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Do you have somebody that's the equivalent of a chief
of staff of the whole operation that assists you or
is it just you bring it everybody along?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
No, I mean there's a huge amount of organization work
that goes into this. I mean, organizations very lucky to
have IRA working looking after all the musicians and organizing
that and you know, and musically, I'm they're running the rehearsals.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
So yeah, I worked for somebody that as I was
managing radio stations and on air talent, who suggested to
me that managing talent is similar to conducting an orchestra
(08:50):
and having the players in the orchestra play the notes
that I'm asking them to play. I wanted to get
your take on that in terms of what's important to
be that leader, that director and understanding the temperament of
people and how you finesse that.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, I mean there is a I think that's a
great similarity being a conductor that's actually sort of being
a leader of I mean, you know, if you think
of that in terms of in a business or something,
it's something similar. It's the same sort of you want
to bring the best out of the people that are
in front of you, and you want to you want
to enable people to really have the chance to invest
(09:33):
their personality, their experience, their skills, and you want to
create an environment and condition where where people are happy
to give their best, you know, And I think that's
what is important for a conductor to to bring out
of musicians.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
I think, you know, is there some psychology involved.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I'm sure there is with everything in life now, I mean, yeah,
a little bit. I like to. I like to, you know,
think a lot about people's people's temperaments and and and
how how we can, you know, get the music sounding,
because music has its demands as well. When we're a musician,
(10:12):
sometimes we're a bit like an actor, and we have
to be what the music needs us to be. Sometimes
we have to draw on all our temperamental possibilities, I think,
to be able to realize the music. So there's that
as well as there's who we really are and who
we are for the music, and you know, there's there's
many levels.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
What does it mean to you when you think of
the historical perspective here of the society and it's it's history.
What does all that mean to you in terms of
how you're going to guide it moving forward.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, it's a it's an immense it's I suppose it's humbling.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
This organization is is an illustrious organization over many, many years.
It's it's done a lot of great work, great music,
and I feel like I'm a part of the story now,
you know, it's it's maybe a little chapter in the
in the story of H N H. And I'm keen to,
(11:14):
you know, to respond to to what needs to happen today.
And I feel very very privileged and likely to be
able to be involved.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
So when you go through a performance, is there a
post mortem after where you sort of look and say, hey, everybody,
we did this brilliantly.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
We need to work on this point.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Well, there's we often have two performances during a week,
and there's a little tiny rehessal before the second one.
So sometimes after the first one, if there are items, yeah,
I mean I will go away after and sort of
get the score out again the next day and trying
and to think over, you know, how can I how
can I improve what was good? What could be better? Always,
(12:00):
you know, and the second performance is It's interesting, actually,
second performances are often very different to first performs. I
found that in a lot in the opera sometimes because
you know, people, as we were talking about psychology, people
often have achieved a rather great thing that on their
first performance, and you know, the energy is often different
(12:21):
on the second one. Maybe it's a little bit wiser,
you never know, but maybe less energy, but a bit wiser,
and so there are challenges to a second performance. That's interesting.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Now, who are some of the leaders in your career
that have shaped you and really influenced you.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I was lucky to work as a young assistant conductor
with William Christi for a long time four five years
actually in France with his organization Liza Florissan, and I
learned a great deal from Bill and it was a
very it was a very exciting time, you know. I
got to watch things close up, and I was lucky
(13:00):
to have a responsibility. Gave me a lot of responsibility
to go and rehearse this and go and sort things
out with these singers. And and it's often difficult, I
think as a conductor. I mean people train as conductors
you know now in music colleges and things, and it's
very difficult to get You have to have you have
to have pilot towers. You know, it's like, you know,
you have to actually learn to to to fly. The
(13:23):
real plane. Simulators are not they can be useful, but
being with people and having the chance to do that
is extraordinarily valuable for a musician. I was very lucky
with with Bill because he gave me, gave me a
lot of time with the orchestra of responsibilities to to undertake,
and it was, you know, a formative time for me.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Is that the biggest thing that he taught you that
that that freedom.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Money just being part of that musical community. It was
regularly doing wonderful music and big operas and staged operas
and things with singers and orchestras and chamber music and
all sorts of things. Just being part of it and
sitting in on rehearsals and then taking rehearsals and you know,
being part of the hustle and bustle. I got to
(14:11):
see what what does it take to make a schedule?
You know, what do directors, how do they need to
collaborate with conductors, What do singers need, what kind of
you know, ornamentations, all the preparations, and how do they
go about experiencing that and what's important to them, you know,
(14:33):
kind of emotionally as well? How does it feel? And
that's very it's very important that.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
So is there an element of balancing the historical perspective
of the society with also bringing new audiences into the
joy of the work. I mean, is there a balancing
act with that.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Well, you know what we said about our sort of
new season of what's old is new again. I don't
think of it as doing an old music. I mean,
you know, it's like saying that somehow Shakespeare or or
you know, Charles Dickens or some kind of any book
not written right today somehow irrelevant to But as you know,
(15:18):
music and arts is a collection of human experience over time,
and I think there's a lot to there's a lot
to learn, especially with the music that we reinvented, you know,
so it is new, and I don't think we have
to apologize to audiences for for for that. I think
(15:38):
often people come because of that. That's what's my view.
And I think if there was a message, because you know,
I'm very keen on accessibility, I love that that we
work hard at H and H for that. And it's
important to to invite to say, this is music for
the world, you know, and we want you, we want
you to have the chance to come and hear it.
(15:59):
I think so, and you know, and it is extraordinarily
relevant in the way that any kind of art that
encapsulates the human condition over time has a lot to
a lot to teach us and to invigorate into and
to and you know, just to to kind of touch
the heart and give us some give us, give us
(16:20):
hope and joy.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
You know, there is a part of the society that
does this great work with young folks from two to twelve,
for sure, right, I mean, it's it's really bringing them
sort of into the fold early. Talk about how joyful
(16:42):
that is for you.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
That's amazing to see that. I think it's a vital
part of the age and h mission of the education.
Giving young people the chance to read music, to experience
music together. I think it can change the life. I mean,
you know, I think it's a wonderful thing to do.
(17:06):
And it's our future audience, is our future musicians too,
you know. So, But but it brings people all sorts
of great benefits for children. You know, my son himself
does a lot of singing, and I saw when he
started doing that transformation actually and his personality, his ability
(17:30):
to concentrate, his his kind of joy and energy. He'd
always looked forward so much to singing in the choirs.
And I think it's really great opportunity.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
We produced this other podcast that's called Music Saved Me
and it's about the healing power of music. From musicians
standpoint and from some of their fans, do you think
music and the music that you are part of has
therapeutic healing power?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Absolutely, there's no doubt about that. Actually, it really does.
You know. It's it's an extension of our spirits, of
our souls somehow, and it's the way of it's a
way of sharing that together and and over time as well.
You know, it's like you can connect with people in
different places. You can cross boundaries, you know, across you
(18:27):
can cross time, spends, countries, experiences, and you can share humanity.
I think that's that's what music's all about. And you
see it. You see the power of it in the
concert halls. You see it. You see it to constantly.
Just turn around and I look see the audience and
I see someone in row whatever who's ha have a
(18:48):
giant grin on their face, a lovely smile, and eye
is sparkling, and they've they've really, they've really taken in
that piece of music. And it's it's made a difference.
You know. That's uh, that's lovely.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
And does it feel different in a let's just say
a post pandemic world that people are even more joyful
to experience.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I certainly felt that, actually, yeah, especially when when things
came back again. There was a real sort of feeling
of absolute relief actually that we can get back to
kind of living a more normal type of life and share.
It's you know, I think it's It's like a plant,
isn't it If you stop giving it water, it sort
of shrivels up. And that's how I felt a little
(19:34):
bit when everything was isolated. I mean, of course it
was necessary, but it's nice to get back to things.
It felt like a reflourishing actually. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Well, lastly, I want to ask, are there any guilty
pleasures musically that someone might be surprised that you enjoy
knowing the disciplines of you work on a regular basis.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
It's a very hard question to answer, because I've not
don't feel particularly guilty. I mean, you know, now, I'm
quite sort of open, and I love listening to all
sorts of different things. Not that I necessarily know very
much about the things, but you know, I'm not sure
you can enjoy music with that without knowing lots of
things about it. But I certainly with a with a
(20:24):
with my son now listening to all sorts of things
which I've got no idea who so you know, No,
I've tried to tried to try to remain open minded
and listen to listen to it as much as I can.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Yeah, is that guilty with curiosity?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Right?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Right? You don't close your ears to anything?
Speaker 2 (20:47):
In general? I think, you know, I think in general,
if i'm maybe I do feel guilty about this. Things
that are extremely loud I tend to. But maybe that's
because I became attuned to working, you know, with instruments
aren't sort of magnified by electric amplifiers. So sometimes especially
if I go into a nightclub or a bar and
(21:09):
then live music, I sometimes really think that's fantastic. It's
so exciting, it's so loud, and I sort of you know,
so it takes a bit of getting used to it
for me. Maybe that's where I feel the most guilty.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Thank you for being and congratulations and it's an honor
to meet you.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Thank you too, Boss.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Thanks thanks for listening to this episode of Taking a Walk.
If you like this podcast, please share it with your friends.
You can find this podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get podcasts,
Taking a Walk.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Music has its demands as well. When we're a musician,
sometimes we're a bit like an actor and we have
to be what the music needs us to be. Sometimes
we have to draw on all our temperamental possibilities to
be able to realize the music. So do's that as
well as who we really are? And two we are
for the music and there's many levels.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome to the Taking a Walk podcast, where your host
Buzz Night features guests that share their stories and speak
of their love of music. On this episode, we explore
the world of chamber music with a man who has
had a remarkable career as a conductor, a cellist, and
a keyboardist. The eighte and H Society was founded in
(00:41):
eighteen fifteen and Jonathan, at the age of forty four,
is one of their youngest artistic directors in history. The
new season of H and H is called What's Old
It's New Again. Let's join Buzz and Jonathan and Boston
on Taking a Walk.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Well, Jonathan, thanks for having me here. Can you describe
what is on this wall here? First?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Jonathan, Well, there's a lot of music there that's all
all nicely organized. Look, there's you and Sebastian Bach's magnificat
mass in g Minor. There's a ton I won't read
out all the names, but there's a lot of repertoire
and music that the organization has been performing for years here.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I'd imagine, Yeah, is it someone's responsibility to put these
in files here?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Oh yeah, I would imagine the Absolutely. We have to
keep a nicely ordered lot of sheet music, you know, musicians,
we write our boeings and markings in there, and so
there's a lot of history in nice pages. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Well, congratulations on the new appointment as the artistic director.
Tell me how it feels. How excited are you?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I'm very excited. It feels great. It's a wonderful chance
to do to do really great music here in Boston
with fantastic musicians. And I'm thrilled to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
And how about just being in Boston in general, and
how does that?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Yeah, it's a fantastic place. I'm very I'm really I
feel a lot of energy here. You know, I don't
know if that's if that's if you feel that too,
but it feels to me that there's a lot of
a lot of love and love for music, a lot
of energy of culture here. It's a it's an exciting place.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
It is I always feel that way coming into the city.
I live out in the suburbs, but coming to Boston
is always a true joy in getting to meet you
is a joy. Since it's called taking a walk. Do
you like taking walks in cities like Boston?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I do. I like walking a lot. It's often walked
to rehessals, and you know, especially if it's a nice
day like today with the sun shining, it's pleasure. I
like hiking as well. I do quite a lot of that.
Something very very healthy and lovely to be outdoors, I think.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
And when you're in the midst of a long day
of rehearsals, is it a welcome moment to just go
clear your head and take a walk?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Absolutely? Yeah, absolutely, yeah. You know, being in one room
all day working, it's nice to get out, isn't it,
and go and find a spot of lunch and nice coffee,
walk around a little bit. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
So talk specifically about some of your background that you
think has essentially really prepared you for this new work
you'll be part of.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah, well I was a cellist to start off with. Well, actually,
that's not entirely. I was a pianist. I started piano
when I was very little, and then I got into
the cello when I was about aged eight, and I,
you know, I did a lot of chamber music. I
think that that helped prepare me a lot, because I
think Barack music is a lot about chamber music. So
(03:53):
I played in string quartets, and I used to go
on summer courses as a kid, to chamber music courses,
you know, playing chamber mus music. And yeah, so so
I found Borock music a little bit later when I
was at Cambridge. I went to university and I studied
music there and I got into the you know, with
the beautiful chapel choirs and the music there. I used
(04:15):
to enjoy putting, putting things together, and I had lots
of friends who were singers and instrumentalists, and I always
sort of, you know, found a nice piece of music
from the library, something a bit interesting, and said, hey,
wonder what this sounds like. Let's get together and play it.
So I was always fascinated with the idea of just
bringing people together to play, to play music that we
didn't know, and that was always my sort of driving
(04:37):
motivation really.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah, and it's still something that you have the same
passion as to when you started.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Absolutely, I always always loved discovering new, new music. And
there's so much music. It's almost like you'll never run
out this in the past. You know, it's music from everywhere.
And that's one of the great pleasures about music really,
it's sort of it's never ending possibilities and new combinations,
(05:07):
of infinite combinations of notes to put together. And you know,
each time we make it, it's we make it. We
make it a new with with people, with different people,
and and you make a note and then it disappears
and it's gone forever, and you then get together and
do it again. That's the great thing about music.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
It So, is there going to be a particular theme
to this new season?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, well, you know, the I think there's we liking.
We very much think that what is what is old
is new again and that's a that's a nice, I
guess summary of what music's all about, really, and especially
baroque music, because it is new again. We pick up
the score and we reinvent it and that's happening all
(05:53):
the time. That's one of the pleasures of doing this
kind of great music.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
So what are typical days like leading up to when
you will be opening?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
So this week's can be very busy. We're opening with
Israel and Egypt by handle On on Friday and Sunday,
first first of the new season, and we'll be rehearsing
phrenetically all week actually, which is great. This is really
diving into this fantastic monumental piece of Handle. The chorus
(06:25):
yesterday we met them for the for the first time
in this piece. They're sounding absolutely fabulous. So we meet
the orchestra today and we'll gradually put it together over
the week. So that's good, a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
How long are the rehearsals.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Three hours generally per rehearsal, and then we do like
two all three of them sometimes a day, and you know,
I'm going around working, you know, we'll put it together.
We'll work the chorus separately and we'll look over things
this sort of little all the details about how to
you know, where we're putting the consonants and ideas about
about the about the music's related to the chorus. And
(07:01):
then today I'll take the orchestra a by itself and
just you know, we'll we'll get to know the music
and look at what concerns the orchestra, and then tomorrow
and the next days we'll start putting it all together,
and it just sort of grows bigger and bigger, and
we sort of zone out, you know, just thinking musically,
less about details and more about the big pictures. As
(07:22):
it grows and grows into the into the performance. I think, is.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
There a little chaos in the process at all?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Well, little chaos never never hurts. It's good. I mean,
you know, it's good to be it's good to be
good to be creative, and I suppose creativity is where
chaos lives. But I try to be as planned as
I can, especially when you're organizing people's times, you know,
because you have to. It would be a little too
chaotic to to be saying, let's rehearse this and then
(07:50):
without the right number of people there, or things like that.
So I try to be as organized as I can be.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Do you have somebody that's the equivalent of a chief
of staff of the whole operation that assists you or
is it just you bring it everybody along?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
No, I mean there's a huge amount of organization work
that goes into this. I mean, organizations very lucky to
have IRA working looking after all the musicians and organizing
that and you know, and musically, I'm they're running the rehearsals.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
So yeah, I worked for somebody that as I was
managing radio stations and on air talent, who suggested to
me that managing talent is similar to conducting an orchestra
(08:50):
and having the players in the orchestra play the notes
that I'm asking them to play. I wanted to get
your take on that in terms of what's important to
be that leader, that director and understanding the temperament of
people and how you finesse that.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, I mean there is a I think that's a
great similarity being a conductor that's actually sort of being
a leader of I mean, you know, if you think
of that in terms of in a business or something,
it's something similar. It's the same sort of you want
to bring the best out of the people that are
in front of you, and you want to you want
to enable people to really have the chance to invest
(09:33):
their personality, their experience, their skills, and you want to
create an environment and condition where where people are happy
to give their best, you know, And I think that's
what is important for a conductor to to bring out
of musicians.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
I think, you know, is there some psychology involved.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I'm sure there is with everything in life now, I mean, yeah,
a little bit. I like to. I like to, you know,
think a lot about people's people's temperaments and and and
how how we can, you know, get the music sounding,
because music has its demands as well. When we're a musician,
(10:12):
sometimes we're a bit like an actor, and we have
to be what the music needs us to be. Sometimes
we have to draw on all our temperamental possibilities, I think,
to be able to realize the music. So there's that
as well as there's who we really are and who
we are for the music, and you know, there's there's
many levels.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
What does it mean to you when you think of
the historical perspective here of the society and it's it's history.
What does all that mean to you in terms of
how you're going to guide it moving forward.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, it's a it's an immense it's I suppose it's humbling.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
This organization is is an illustrious organization over many, many years.
It's it's done a lot of great work, great music,
and I feel like I'm a part of the story now,
you know, it's it's maybe a little chapter in the
in the story of H N H. And I'm keen to,
(11:14):
you know, to respond to to what needs to happen today.
And I feel very very privileged and likely to be
able to be involved.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
So when you go through a performance, is there a
post mortem after where you sort of look and say, hey, everybody,
we did this brilliantly.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
We need to work on this point.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Well, there's we often have two performances during a week,
and there's a little tiny rehessal before the second one.
So sometimes after the first one, if there are items, yeah,
I mean I will go away after and sort of
get the score out again the next day and trying
and to think over, you know, how can I how
can I improve what was good? What could be better? Always,
(12:00):
you know, and the second performance is It's interesting, actually,
second performances are often very different to first performs. I
found that in a lot in the opera sometimes because
you know, people, as we were talking about psychology, people
often have achieved a rather great thing that on their
first performance, and you know, the energy is often different
(12:21):
on the second one. Maybe it's a little bit wiser,
you never know, but maybe less energy, but a bit wiser,
and so there are challenges to a second performance. That's interesting.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Now, who are some of the leaders in your career
that have shaped you and really influenced you.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I was lucky to work as a young assistant conductor
with William Christi for a long time four five years
actually in France with his organization Liza Florissan, and I
learned a great deal from Bill and it was a
very it was a very exciting time, you know. I
got to watch things close up, and I was lucky
(13:00):
to have a responsibility. Gave me a lot of responsibility
to go and rehearse this and go and sort things
out with these singers. And and it's often difficult, I
think as a conductor. I mean people train as conductors
you know now in music colleges and things, and it's
very difficult to get You have to have you have
to have pilot towers. You know, it's like, you know,
you have to actually learn to to to fly. The
(13:23):
real plane. Simulators are not they can be useful, but
being with people and having the chance to do that
is extraordinarily valuable for a musician. I was very lucky
with with Bill because he gave me, gave me a
lot of time with the orchestra of responsibilities to to undertake,
and it was, you know, a formative time for me.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Is that the biggest thing that he taught you that
that that freedom.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Money just being part of that musical community. It was
regularly doing wonderful music and big operas and staged operas
and things with singers and orchestras and chamber music and
all sorts of things. Just being part of it and
sitting in on rehearsals and then taking rehearsals and you know,
being part of the hustle and bustle. I got to
(14:11):
see what what does it take to make a schedule?
You know, what do directors, how do they need to
collaborate with conductors, What do singers need, what kind of
you know, ornamentations, all the preparations, and how do they
go about experiencing that and what's important to them, you know,
(14:33):
kind of emotionally as well? How does it feel? And
that's very it's very important that.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
So is there an element of balancing the historical perspective
of the society with also bringing new audiences into the
joy of the work. I mean, is there a balancing
act with that.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Well, you know what we said about our sort of
new season of what's old is new again. I don't
think of it as doing an old music. I mean,
you know, it's like saying that somehow Shakespeare or or
you know, Charles Dickens or some kind of any book
not written right today somehow irrelevant to But as you know,
(15:18):
music and arts is a collection of human experience over time,
and I think there's a lot to there's a lot
to learn, especially with the music that we reinvented, you know,
so it is new, and I don't think we have
to apologize to audiences for for for that. I think
(15:38):
often people come because of that. That's what's my view.
And I think if there was a message, because you know,
I'm very keen on accessibility, I love that that we
work hard at H and H for that. And it's
important to to invite to say, this is music for
the world, you know, and we want you, we want
you to have the chance to come and hear it.
(15:59):
I think so, and you know, and it is extraordinarily
relevant in the way that any kind of art that
encapsulates the human condition over time has a lot to
a lot to teach us and to invigorate into and
to and you know, just to to kind of touch
the heart and give us some give us, give us
(16:20):
hope and joy.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
You know, there is a part of the society that
does this great work with young folks from two to twelve,
for sure, right, I mean, it's it's really bringing them
sort of into the fold early. Talk about how joyful
(16:42):
that is for you.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
That's amazing to see that. I think it's a vital
part of the age and h mission of the education.
Giving young people the chance to read music, to experience
music together. I think it can change the life. I mean,
you know, I think it's a wonderful thing to do.
(17:06):
And it's our future audience, is our future musicians too,
you know. So, But but it brings people all sorts
of great benefits for children. You know, my son himself
does a lot of singing, and I saw when he
started doing that transformation actually and his personality, his ability
(17:30):
to concentrate, his his kind of joy and energy. He'd
always looked forward so much to singing in the choirs.
And I think it's really great opportunity.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
We produced this other podcast that's called Music Saved Me
and it's about the healing power of music. From musicians
standpoint and from some of their fans, do you think
music and the music that you are part of has
therapeutic healing power?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Absolutely, there's no doubt about that. Actually, it really does.
You know. It's it's an extension of our spirits, of
our souls somehow, and it's the way of it's a
way of sharing that together and and over time as well.
You know, it's like you can connect with people in
different places. You can cross boundaries, you know, across you
(18:27):
can cross time, spends, countries, experiences, and you can share humanity.
I think that's that's what music's all about. And you
see it. You see the power of it in the
concert halls. You see it. You see it to constantly.
Just turn around and I look see the audience and
I see someone in row whatever who's ha have a
(18:48):
giant grin on their face, a lovely smile, and eye
is sparkling, and they've they've really, they've really taken in
that piece of music. And it's it's made a difference.
You know. That's uh, that's lovely.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
And does it feel different in a let's just say
a post pandemic world that people are even more joyful
to experience.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I certainly felt that, actually, yeah, especially when when things
came back again. There was a real sort of feeling
of absolute relief actually that we can get back to
kind of living a more normal type of life and share.
It's you know, I think it's It's like a plant,
isn't it If you stop giving it water, it sort
of shrivels up. And that's how I felt a little
(19:34):
bit when everything was isolated. I mean, of course it
was necessary, but it's nice to get back to things.
It felt like a reflourishing actually. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Well, lastly, I want to ask, are there any guilty
pleasures musically that someone might be surprised that you enjoy
knowing the disciplines of you work on a regular basis.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
It's a very hard question to answer, because I've not
don't feel particularly guilty. I mean, you know, now, I'm
quite sort of open, and I love listening to all
sorts of different things. Not that I necessarily know very
much about the things, but you know, I'm not sure
you can enjoy music with that without knowing lots of
things about it. But I certainly with a with a
(20:24):
with my son now listening to all sorts of things
which I've got no idea who so you know, No,
I've tried to tried to try to remain open minded
and listen to listen to it as much as I can.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Yeah, is that guilty with curiosity?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Right?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Right? You don't close your ears to anything?
Speaker 2 (20:47):
In general? I think, you know, I think in general,
if i'm maybe I do feel guilty about this. Things
that are extremely loud I tend to. But maybe that's
because I became attuned to working, you know, with instruments
aren't sort of magnified by electric amplifiers. So sometimes especially
if I go into a nightclub or a bar and
(21:09):
then live music, I sometimes really think that's fantastic. It's
so exciting, it's so loud, and I sort of you know,
so it takes a bit of getting used to it
for me. Maybe that's where I feel the most guilty.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Thank you for being and congratulations and it's an honor
to meet you.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Thank you too, Boss.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Thanks thanks for listening to this episode of Taking a Walk.
If you like this podcast, please share it with your friends.
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