August 20, 2025 • 41 mins
We talk a great deal about signs, symptoms and awareness in hopes of preventing blood clots. Even when armed with the knowledge and the skills, what happens when the suggestion of medical experts leads to the unexpected loss of a loved one? On this episode of Taking a Breath, we are joined by the exceptional Omari Maynard to discuss the life and legacy of Shamony Gibson and what advocacy looks like in the face of unimaginable loss. With National Blood Alliance President Leslie Lake and National Blood Clot Alliance Patient Liaison Todd Robertson alongside listeners like you, we will continue working together to collectively Stop the Clot!
A special thank you to the Bristol-Meyers Squibb-Pfizer Alliance and Stryker for helping us breathe life into today's episode.
Taking a Breath: A Stop The Clot Podcast is an Everything Podcasts Production.
For more information on the National Blood Clot Alliance, please visit https://www.stoptheclot.org/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
We try our best to prepare for the whirlwind of difficulties we face throughout our life.
From daily setbacks to long-term illness, we do what we can to make the bad days a littleless difficult.
We're talking to Shemani's mom on a daily basis, multiple times.
So as soon as, you know, Shemani told her like, listen, I'm having shortness of breath,it's hard to talk, woke up, her mom was like, these are signs of having a pulmonary
(00:31):
embolism.
When preparedness meets the blunt and sudden nature of the unexpected, we do our best toaccommodate and accept this new path we're focused to navigate.
Though many acclimate through resilience and the acceptance of what is, how do we findhope along the seemingly hopeless path?
(00:53):
Even though you know we were also well informed we went with the information get by youknow the.
I just probably needs to rest probably overwork.
They said they can't really you know about her they need to and again like I said you know13 days later.
ended up passing away from a pulmonary embolism.
(01:18):
Every six minutes, somebody in America dies of a blood clot.
We're here to change that statistic.
Welcome to Taking a Breath, a stop the clot podcast.
An award-winning podcast dedicated to bringing awareness of the dangers of blood clotsfrom the clotting disorders community to the world.
With the help of many notable blood clot survivors, we are here to give you the knowledgeand the skills you need to prevent this silent killer.
(01:45):
My name is Leslie Lake.
I am the president of the National Blood Clot Alliance and I am a blood clot survivor.
and my name is Todd Robertson.
I am the patient engagement liaison for the National Blood Clot Alliance and I am a seventime blood clot survivor.
And we're here to stop the clot.
(02:10):
Navigating tragedy is one of life's most difficult endeavors.
The shifting from a reality you loved and knew so well into a world you never wished to bea part of creates a numbing dissonance that many of us, unfortunately, know all too well.
Today, we are joined by someone whose courage and tenacity in the face of loss is nothingshort of inspiring.
(02:35):
Our guest today is a father, partner, artist, activist,
and co-founder of the Area Foundation.
Here to discuss the life and legacy of his partner, Shamani Gibson, please join me inwelcoming the wonderful Omari Maynard.
My name is Omari Maynard.
(02:56):
I am the father of Uriah, Anari, and Kari, and I am the son of Dolores and Elton, theco-founder of the ARIA Foundation.
ARIA stands for the Advancement of Reproductive Innovation through Artistry and Hair Loss.
And I'm just thankful to be here.
Thank you for the to just be vulnerable with you all and, you know, try to create.
(03:19):
where these type of conversations happen more often so that, you know, just as a communitywe're all better informed and understanding that everybody's going through something.
So everybody's got to be able to be willing to share their experience to help the nextperson.
So, thankful to be here.
Armani is an amazing, amazing woman.
very, man, she was very, she could be a stubborn woman as well.
(03:44):
Our relationship was, it was, I always say that he was one of the few people where Iremember.
the exact moment when I saw her.
We both worked at the athletic league, worked at different sites.
I was in Brooklyn site, but she was at a different Brooklyn site.
(04:06):
But we all had to get together for training in Harlem.
While we were at the training, but then maybe the f-
second day at the training I saw her walking across the gym and I was in the because I waslike, my god.
the heck is that?
She's beautiful.
And then that was pretty much it.
Maybe about a year later, I ended up actually getting transferred to her side.
(04:26):
And that's when.
actually, you know, built a friendship first, you know, and just started kind ofconnecting that way.
I don't remember moments like that, you know, often uh just in respect to life.
You know so as far as our relationship goes our relationship was like many other peopleyou know.
(04:51):
And it was amazing definitely had that honeymoon phase where we you know couldn't getenough of each other she's super funny very witty fiery you know said was on the mind, but
she was also very guarded just dealing with you know.
You know she just that we have in the grow up you know.
Always forthcoming.
with affection with
(05:15):
letting people that you know, but she let me and you know, and I always appreciated that.
And you know like many young knucklehead man I knew what I had you know and enjoyed what Ihad but also felt like I needed something.
So how did.
(05:36):
So we ended up breaking up and as soon as we did that I was like this is not where I wantto be.
And you know, we ended up getting back together.
Actually, it was very funny.
During that time, I ended up leaving.
He ended up leaving.
And then.
I got a job with the Harlem Children's Zone and so
(05:58):
Very likely that I would be seeing anybody from.
Brooklyn in that type of situation that can root.
But I up going to Michael's one day with my son and I was walking to Michael's.
I it was like near Central Park.
she was coming down the block the other way, know, and she just so happened to leavepolice athletically and get in a job.
(06:21):
Which was going to see, you know, that kind of part that rekindled our connection and,know, ever since then, it.
like, we locked in.
And that's exactly what it was.
know, we were locked in and this time around, want to say like it was April dating andApril.
(06:44):
of 2016.
again and I want to she you know and you know it was really quick and in hindsight I'mextremely thankful for you know the way we played out but you know we really had to grow
(07:08):
up
relationship really fast and a lot of things that I had to give up as a true father.
having to give up the things that Ari wanted to do, know, it felt like he should do inaddition to having
really ship and building a family.
but just in retro, had to shift and didn't know how to do that shift.
(07:32):
And she was always pushing that shift and it was like, man, we would bump heads.
We wanted the same thing, but we wanted to do them differently.
And it took a lot of time trying to kind of figure out that balance, being in thisrelationship while making sure that she's covered.
and making sure that our child was brought to this earth safely.
(07:54):
Shemani was, she was a dancer.
She danced.
that she got the scholarship to go to LaGuardia and she ended up getting a collegescholarship to Temple.
But you know that wasn't the path that she wanted to do.
funny, she was funny, super witty, athletic, smart, just really thoughtful, thought aboutpeople all the time, and just created space for everybody.
(08:21):
Just her energy, it was infectious, know, she made sure that, you know, she gave people
to be them, but also, you know, just to just light up a room and just, you her presence.
Yeah.
I'll rewind a little bit to talk about Inari's introduction to life first.
being introduced to this new family, right?
(08:43):
And, you know, we got Shemean Shemani and learning who she was as a person and, moreimportant.
for this conversation learning about her family and her background especially.
you know, her mom, Shawnee, know, Shawnee's been in this maternal health space.
She's done a lot of work around reproductive justice, reproductive health, talking abouttrauma, grief, all the things that come with conversations that don't necessarily happen,
(09:07):
like conversations around having a conference called the Motherwick to introduceconversations around stillbirth and miscarriages and releasing pregnancy, you know.
things that are kind of taboo to talk about in community.
But, you know, she created that space and Shemani grew up.
that space, you know, so she has a high level understanding of what is needed in terms ofcommunity, to the world and signs, all that great stuff.
(09:37):
With Anari, we had team of duelers going through the gestation process.
But we ended up having Anari uh and even though we had a team of midwives, which was greatbecause people don't usually have an opportunity, what we found out was that we needed
(10:00):
somebody um
With midwives, anybody who's helping you in that type of capacity, you grow attached tothem, you know?
So like the team concept wasn't really good for us because we were expecting to seesomebody when we go in for business and be somebody.
We were expecting somebody in the living room who wasn't necessarily there to be somebodyelse or.
(10:22):
So it was great and it was very important because we had information, we had informed theteam through the process.
We knew that the second time around.
We wanted just one midwife and one doula.
And we wanted to have an ass.
uh
did not have a great experience at the hospital that we gave birth to an Aryan.
(10:42):
So now we knew we wanted to have another child or multiple children.
Kari wasn't the most planned pregnancy that I've been a part of, but it wasn't necessarilyplanned.
So when we found out that she was pregnant again, it was like, snap, are you serious?
But it was like, all right, this is great.
know, round two, we're doing it again.
(11:02):
And at that point as a partner, as a parent, I was just way more.
informed and excited about this around a third time around for me the second time aroundfor us.
because you know I knew what the expectations were and I'm creating this family unit itwas we were locked in you know.
(11:26):
It up getting the midwife she was great so we had a one midwife and to me that I want ourone doula and the midwife organization that would use this like.
right off the block from me.
We go on for visits, I went to every visit, went to every OBGYN visit, went to everymidwife visit, and when we went, stool a visit, and when we went, was a group of other
(11:47):
families as well.
So yeah.
opportunity to share our experiences with other families who are going through the samething as we were ourselves.
She was healthy, she was ready.
know, we were walking, she was working out.
We had a better.
m
things that we needed this time around.
So you were well informed and ready.
We wanted to try to have a natural.
(12:12):
feedback, which is a vaginal birth after C-section with carring.
And that was the plan, you know, we had our birthing plan, had a team so we just
to execute and.
one night her water broke and so we had set up the house, set up the pool in the house,called doula, called our midwife.
(12:35):
When Shemani's water breaks, know, we wait, counting the contractions.
After a while, instead of the contractions.
closer together, they started to get further apart or just kind of stagnant and uh
The midwife came, she came to the house for a couple of minutes and she was just like, youknow what, just hold tight, but if they get worse, we're gonna have to, or if nothing
(12:56):
happens, if the contractions.
get closer together we're going to have to go to the hospital.
Purchase on hospitals we wanted to go to a hospital percentage of c-sections for birthingso
We ended up having to do that and we went, but still, know, our do was present and youknow, we were hoping for the best, you know, and I think more than anything in that whole
(13:19):
process for anybody who's given birth, right?
We all have a plan.
all, well, I shouldn't say we all have a plan.
We all have something in mind of expectations of what this is supposed to look like andsupposed to be.
Right.
And sometimes that doesn't always work out.
You know, and I think what that said, the most important thing is that you are able to
(13:40):
bring a healthy baby a healthy right and if that happens
the plan has been executed.
So, you know, we go to the hospital and we wait and the thing is, that
with hospitals, unfortunately.
they don't always give you the time that you need because birthing is birthing.
(14:02):
know, some women, bing bang boom, 30 minutes, they in and out, you know.
And others, know, it's bing bang, boom, boom, boom, ting ting ting.
The baby comes on its own time.
And unfortunately, like I said, hospitals, they don't give you that, they don't afford youthat ability.
When they got people coming in and out all the time, you know, so they waited as long asthey could.
(14:24):
And, you know, we eventually had
get a c-section so
was like, all right, you know, it's not what the plan was, but Shemani's
It's time for the baby to come, so let's do it.
we ended up having to get a C-section.
But the thing is, is that we didn't really have any relationship.
with the doctors.
there because we were planning on having a home birth.
(14:45):
Amen.
Couldn't tell you his name couldn't pick him out.
up if he asks me to.
thing is is that Shemani, she had webbing, which is scarred on the uterine lining from ourprevious C-section.
So when it was time for her to cut Kari, well, it time for the doctor to
are open to bring Kari through.
It just took a little bit longer than usual and then car
(15:11):
out, the doctor decided get some Shemani's fibroids out as well.
And at the time I thought, hey, you know, it's great.
And, know, two for one, you know, if we want to have another child, you know, there won'tbe any blockage or they'll, you know, be less likely to have a different type of outcome
for pregnancy because of.
But in hindsight, I learned that, you know, this is a whole separate surgery.
(15:34):
Fibroids are living part of your body that if cut or cut improperly, you know, massivebleeding.
I think honestly, that was kind of beginning of
of her demise
She was already open for too long trying to get through the scar.
tissue and then again having uh more more air to get in.
(16:00):
instead of sewing her up for some reason they ended up, know, she ended up passing away 13days later due to uh blood cuts and her going.
cardiac arrest.
She ended up passing away from a pulmonary embolism.
But between those 13 days, because again, our family is well informed, we know what thesigns and symptoms are, you we're talking to Shemani's mom on a daily basis.
(16:26):
So as soon as Shemani told her, listen, I'm having shortness of breath, it's hard for meto talk to her.
Woke up the steps, her mom was like, this is, these are signs of having a pulmonaryembolism.
And because, you know, her mom is so active in the community, we knew the head of thematernity ward at
that we gave birth that.
(16:46):
we're able to call them on the cell phone and say, this is what's going on, this is what'shappening.
Even though we were also well informed, went with the information.
She just probably needs to rest, she's probably overworked.
themselves, probably doing too much.
So just have her lay down and just cover her.
(17:08):
that's exactly what But in hindsight, class moving through your body, it creates space forthem to move faster and be more aggressive.
but also between that time we were also going back.
to the hospital and telling the doctors exactly what was going on and what should we do.
And every time we went because it wasn't Shaman.
(17:29):
Um, they said they can't really.
And again, like I said, you know, 13 days later.
ended up passing away from a pulmonary
was I know that the silver lining for me.
During that time.
She might as well was like listen, you know, we're going to listen to the doctor so whatwe're going to do is we're to have family come over that friends come over keep our
(17:51):
company, you know clean up the house bring food or that great.
You know, so those final those last couple of days.
A best friend came over and we chopped it up, you know she brought us food and and hangingout and have.
She monies.
was there as well and then the second day or the day ended up functioning.
(18:11):
or going into cardiac arrest.
Her god sister was at the house, her mom was at the house.
and her aunt was at the house, you know, so.
oh
we were all laughing, talking, having fun, you know, and then she reminds me.
listen, man, like my chest really hurts.
to the hospital.
as a...
That's when she ended up going into cardiac arrest in the house, you know, and I...
(18:35):
Say that...
If I was in the house by myself, you know 2 babies, you know my partner I don't know ifI'd be sitting here with you all today.
I don't know what I would.
would have done if I was by myself.
And you know having this conversation with Sean is she also said the same?
So thankful to me to be with my daughter on her last days I don't know what I would do ifI got a phone call from telling me that this is what And you need to get down here as fast
(19:05):
as you can and you know having that situation occur It's funny because I was having thisexact conversation the other day about how I've changed I'm not the same oh
that I was.
in many capacities and aspects.
my life and um
(19:25):
I'm just so glad that I had an opportunity to have these moments.
like, months before she passed away, we were...
arguing arguing about something I don't
whatever you know couples about and with us we go to sleep and I wake up in the morningand I'm looking in.
(19:49):
And just you know just captivated and I'm thinking like in my mind I was.
This is where I want to be there's no other.
that I want to be.
I would want to live.
you know, months later she passes away, you know, and...
(20:11):
huh, man.
I remember walking out the hospital and the sun was shining and my dad was next.
It was my dad and my friend, you know, they're walking on walking out.
I will never be the.
same person, like this is going to forever shift and change.
(20:31):
And I think about other men who have gone through.
loss and suffered loss in a similar fashion.
It's very different.
Because I lost my grandmother pretty much a year to the day.
Losing Shemani and my grandmother is 92.
And I thought she would live forever.
Just an amazing person.
And I miss her and think about her often.
(20:52):
But I bring that up because it's a totally different experience when somebody who you havean opportunity to meet and grow this whole new experience and have these life shifting and
life changing experience with.
in conjunction with with them and you know they suddenly are not here anymore in additionto now reason is this new life that you have this plan that you're going to be doing
(21:20):
together and.
Plan is out the window and so I'm just thankful for community, I'm thankful for all thecovering that I got the reason that.
I was able to be an advocate the reason why I was able to.
My life that had to quit teaching had to do a lot of different things was the only way Iwas able to do is because of community.
(21:48):
I was covered in a way that I know of them people don't have the opportunity to becovered.
I was getting phone calls text messages people were showing up with gift cards to push onup with diapers and pamper had a press for like a year.
being covered by community and like I said, the knowing that, know, the go from me that wehad the diapers, the wipes, the phone calls are still all coming in the mill trains, you
(22:13):
know, so there were some things that I didn't have.
uh You know, and then lastly, having the opportunity to be covered by my job.
And in addition to having COVID, I was able to be home, you know, and that gave me anopportunity to plan and figure things out and really sit with myself, really sit with my
brief, really sit with my trauma.
and figure out.
(22:34):
how I was going to have to shift in creating this new life for myself and my family.
You know, I'm an artist, Shemani's an artist.
I was teaching at the time, but like two years, three years prior, we started a businesscalled Art for Living.
And Art for Living is basically a lifestyle brand where we would use art and artisticmodalities to create community.
(22:54):
So we would do sipping paints, we would do t-shirt making, we would do glass etching, wewould do...
wood carving, would do speed dating, we would do anything that you could think of to beable to create community.
And that showed me one that we both could use art as a way to express ourselves, but as away to also create income, generate income and build this business together, which also
(23:19):
created a different avenue for our relationship to grow as well.
Wow, I'm like crying and laughing and all kinds of different emotions listening to this.
mean, it's incredible.
You touched on something earlier about pulmonary embolism and we're the National BloodClot Alliance.
(23:40):
So obviously we're talking about blood clots, but there's something bigger here, which ismaternal health and in particular black maternal health.
And so talk to us about kind of what I perceive to be the forgotten group of people, whichare.
the men and the fathers that are actually impacted by this.
Because we don't talk a lot about this.
(24:00):
And so, in your words, in your mind, in your feelings, what role can men play in thismaternal health advocacy?
I don't think people realize how serious this is in our country, a country that has somuch.
And yet this is happening at our doorstep.
So what role can men play?
(24:21):
Because it can't be just women out there saying,
This is a problem like everybody's got to be buying into this, that this is a big issuehere.
Yeah.
Definitely.
It's it's a huge issue.
And unfortunately, like I think that talking about it is taboo.
Like black and brown women, indigenous women are three to four times more likely to passaway due to internal health complications than...
(24:50):
And the numbers show roughly 800 to 900 women a year, you know, and those are the ones...
that are documented.
But this bigger conversation is maternal morbidity.
Like maternal morbidity is, you we start to 10x that number.
So it's hundreds of thousands of women who are suffering these near death experiences andnow have these traumatic experiences.
(25:18):
And Shemani was one of those people with our first baby.
But because, you know, I think C-sections and just giving birth in hospitals and kind ofjust having this one cookie cutter model.
is so prevalent in our community.
We don't even think about the trauma that comes with it if it does not go right.
For the mother and also for the birthing partner, right?
(25:39):
Because the birthing partner also is traumatized, but also has to be there for theirpartner who is dealing with the traumatic situation as well.
I think that, well, I know that it's so commonplace that people don't really understandthe
power of their own stories, right?
(26:00):
And their power of being able to share those stories so that other people can resonatewith them and then can get together or create other opportunities for, you know, bigger
conversations to happen, which is how do we change the medical model, right?
And so that's one.
One is, you know, just people just don't feel like it's that serious, I guess.
(26:23):
But I think that from
a partner standpoint, which is, like I said, we don't really talk about it when you're,especially this very, like I said it earlier, it's very special, different circumstance
when you lose somebody and you're bringing new life into the world.
And now as a man, the plan goes out the window and you don't necessarily know how to dealand handle.
(26:52):
I think on top of that,
you feel like kind of the only person who's going through this.
Well, there's not really too many people you can talk to about it.
Wholeheartedly, we as men don't give ourselves enough opportunities to create space wherewe can be as expressive as we need to be.
Sometimes it sucks, this is hard, and that is it.
(27:17):
There is no...
Gambit right there is no real space where it's like I'm dealing with this this this thisand that I don't know how to do this this this and that and Not necessarily even trying to
find answers for it, but just saying the thing out loud You know where now you have anopportunity to honor that and more Things you know because it's extremely valid and then
(27:40):
you know figure out how to shift and I know that for me really changed my life because IDidn't have to carry that burden
by myself, I didn't have to sugarcoat those feelings because I knew that they would behonored and protected.
And I knew that I could get, if not answers, at least empathy from other men.
(28:03):
And I wanted to make sure that I passed that on because I knew that that was a specialthing.
So fast forward about six months later, Amber Isaac Rose ends up passing away and herpartner, Bruce McIntyre,
was left with this baby and was an amazing child and also lost his partner.
(28:25):
I wanted to make it happen.
I afforded him the same opportunity.
I called him and we talked and we talked and me and him have a very special bond to thisday.
having that, being able to do that, I knew that there was a need for it.
It was just kind of a matter of
(28:46):
If you don't see it, then you gotta build it.
With our foundation, we started a subset called the Luxor Collective where we meetvirtually every other Thursday and I invite men who have suffered from trauma and loss and
grief through the medical system to sit and just have conversations about life.
(29:11):
We've been doing it for the last two or three years now and it's shifted from
just from that to in addition to creating space for men to just talk to other men, otherblack men specifically, to talk to other men.
Because we harbor so much grief and trauma of just being black and American and don'treally have space where we can have those conversations with how do we honor our feelings?
(29:36):
How do we grow from them?
How do we use them?
How do we utilize them?
How do we impart our wisdom on other people?
How do we just say the things that
are on people's mind, but you don't even know because there was no space to have thatconversation in the first place.
In doing that, you see like, and it becomes heavy sometimes, but you see like the...
(30:02):
You don't know what you need until you get it sometimes.
And you see the need for me specifically, I could talk about myself, but I could also talkabout the men who's in the space.
The need to just consistently work through your emotions because we're dealing with somuch as a society every day.
We don't realize how heavy the world can be on us.
(30:25):
It just takes an hour, an hour and a half sometimes to just sit with your feelings and sitwith others and just talk.
or just listen, but giving you the fuel to be able to learn how to navigate and just growas an individual on a daily, weekly, monthly basis to create better situations for
(30:46):
yourself, for your family, and then ultimately community.
It's a really powerful thing, and it's a beautiful thing.
thing.
a beautiful thing and you're creating something very, very special.
How do you want medical professionals to better understand patient care for black women inparticular?
You've created this group, this community.
You've lived something that most people haven't and never will.
(31:11):
What do want these medical professionals to know?
ah So, and I'm gonna say this, but I also just wanna preface it first, because I spokeabout it, touched on it earlier a little bit, you know, with our midwife and our doula.
And I know this is true for the medical community as well, right?
(31:33):
For doctors, nurses, medical professionals, doctors particularly, you know, they're heldin high regard, but it's not what it used to be.
And a lot of them are just overworked.
A lot of them are overworked, understaffed, doing doubles, doing triples.
And it takes a toll on the body.
takes a toll on the mental.
(31:54):
And it takes a toll on your emotional capacity to be empathetic and sympathetic sometimes.
And when that happens, and the concern is, what do I need to do so that I can sustainmyself?
sometimes over arches what does my patient need in order for them to get what they camehere for so that we don't have to have this situation reoccurring.
(32:28):
And sometimes when that happens, a good passion for anybody, it just kind of falls to thewayside sometimes.
So I would say that one, I...
understand the plight, but this is also something that you signed up for, right?
And it's important that when people come in for care, regardless of whether they haveprivate insurance or Medicaid or Medicare or no insurance at all, or is dealing with
(32:53):
psychological issues or physical issues or disabilities, we all need and deserve theproper care for us to be able to be productive members of the society.
That doesn't happen all the time because
There is stigmas that come with who is deserving and who isn't.
With the medical community, just medical history in general, Black and Brown people havealways not given the things that they need when it comes to maternal healthcare, know,
(33:23):
pushing midwives and granny midwives and doulas out the door because they don't haveaccreditation.
And then bringing in this medical model so that we can birth, you know, it creates a spaceof cultural disconnect.
And when we're compounding on that with all the other things that we're dealing with inthe medical system, it just creates situations like that I've been in and many other men
(33:50):
and women and families I've been in.
I would say that one, it's important to just step back and just have compassion, but alsotwo, it's important to...
ask for help and guidance.
know that when we talk about birthing specifically, midwives and doulas, they're part ofevery system except the United States, And it's working in so many different places.
(34:14):
There are so many different examples of what it looks like and how it's beneficial foreverybody that's partaking in it.
But it's not a model that we're using here.
And I pray that with this...
pushing or with maternal health being a hot button topic over the last couple of yearsthat birthing options and birthing teams become more prevalent.
(34:39):
So having a midwife and a doula and a nurse and a doctor and a lactation consultant and atherapist working in conjunction to help create better systems for us, I pray that that
comes about.
And in addition to your question earlier, how do you
bring in fathers into the fold so that they are not only informed but acknowledged, youknow, and creating systems where paternal health is also as important, right?
(35:09):
Where you have this curriculum for fathers to take care of themselves and their partnerand their newborn once they come, specifically during postpartum, because postpartum is
where we're losing most of our women.
It's it's imperative.
It has to happen in order for us to
really create the shift that we all want to see.
Yeah, I think you're right.
(35:30):
is imperative.
It needs to be included and there's just not enough conversation about it.
Yes, definitely.
Talk to us about Aftershock, how that came to be, what it was, how it's influenced you,how people can learn more about it, because it is a very powerful, powerful thing.
Yes, thank you.
So Aftershock, if you have not seen Aftershock, go check out Aftershock.
(35:51):
It is streaming on Hulu right now.
And it's a beautiful documentary.
It's an amazing documentary.
We won a Peabody Award.
We were Emmy nominated.
We won a slew of other awards and Film Festival and part of many different films.
But the documentary follows myself.
(36:11):
Shawnee Gibson and Bruce McIntyre in our maternal health story.
Pretty much from the beginning, know, Shemani passed away October 11th, 2019, which isalso the same day as my birthday.
We were provided the opportunity to film on December 19th, 2019, which is her birthday,because we created an event called Aftershock.
(36:38):
And, you know, the producer of the film,
Paula Eisel came to just see, you cause she was like, I want to create a film aroundmaternal health.
But she saw how what we did with our community.
event called Aftershock and she said that, you know what, I want to follow your family.
So it was really kind of from the rawest moments of our lives.
(37:00):
It was two months after Shemani passed away and they followed us for about a year and ahalf.
It goes through all of the emotions.
It was the worst time of my life, to be honest.
I was losing weight.
My bed was all over the place.
I couldn't think straight, but I'm so happy that.
(37:23):
people got a chance to see what grief and growth look like, right?
What grieving and leading looks like uh and the fact that what community engagement lookslike in this maternal health space because it's so important.
having that first conversation with Bruce and me and him chopping it up that first night,he told me that he had to bury Amber on his birthday as well.
(37:51):
So when you have those things, those types of things that are in alignment, it's reallylike, as much as we both maybe didn't want to be in this space and want to do this work,
was like Shemani and Amber was like slapping us both in the face saying, this is what youhave to do.
I don't care what you think, this is happening.
(38:13):
know, so as horrific as it sounds and as hard as it was,
the knowing that somebody else actually had to go through this.
And more importantly, like somebody that I connected with outside of even having thatinitial conversation, it was just confirmation that we were on the right path.
(38:35):
And that more importantly, as men, we need to be advocates in this space for not justwomen and reproductive justice and maternal health, but also how do we create a form, an
opportunity.
to bring fathers into the fold in a more intentional way.
But it's a beautiful film.
Please go check it out.
It'll change your life.
(38:56):
It goes through the history of maternal health care, reproductive health, transition togranny midwives, to having births in hospitals, and then how we can create more
opportunities for birthing centers, for birthing options, for just people having a betterunderstanding of what healthcare looks like now in 2025.
(39:17):
and systems that can be put in place for us to redirect birthing outcomes.
Yeah, it's incredibly well done.
It's beautiful.
I've watched it so many times for everybody listening to us here today.
It's aftershock.
It's on Hulu.
I was at a conference last year, all clinicians, all doctors, et cetera, in the audience.
(39:38):
And I actually spoke about maternal health in this country.
And it was amazing to me how many people didn't realize the impact of the problem.
And it's not that they didn't care.
They didn't know.
And so here I am as a lay person talking about my pulmonary embolism and I'm like, Hey,you guys all need to know about this.
(39:59):
And I played pieces of aftershock and they were like, we just, didn't know.
And so that reached people, which will reach more people, which will reach more people.
And yes, we're talking about pulmonary embolism at the national blood clot Alliance, butthis it's bigger than that, right?
It's bigger than that.
Amari, thank you for joining us here today.
(40:20):
This has been an incredible conversation.
You're going to reach so many people.
I know we're going to save lives because of this episode.
Please keep doing the incredible work that you're doing.
And I just want to say, we want to work with you.
We want to raise awareness around this terrible issue.
This is more than just blood clots and pulmonary embolism.
This is, you know, something that at a national level should not be happening in ourcountry.
(40:46):
Women should not be dying.
Maternal mortality should not be an issue in this country and it's going to take all of ustogether to make sure that this stops.
But we have the power to do it together.
So thank you.
We want to thank Omari one more time for sharing his journey and illuminating us with thelegacy and light of Shemona Gibson.
(41:11):
As always, thank you for joining us on another episode of Taking a Breath.
For more information on risk, prevention, and community, please visit StopTheClaught.org.
And if you wish to aid in our efforts of blood clot awareness, please consider donating toour cause at StopTheClaught.org.
(41:32):
oh
forward slash donate.
We know the patient because we are the patient.
Together with listeners like you, we can collectively stop the clot.
For more information, visit stoptheclot.org.
Another Everything Podcast production.
(41:53):
Visit.
everythingpodcast.com, a division of Patterson Media.
Subscribe wherever you get your podcast.
We try our best to prepare for the whirlwind of difficulties we face throughout our life.
From daily setbacks to long-term illness, we do what we can to make the bad days a littleless difficult.
We're talking to Shemani's mom on a daily basis, multiple times.
So as soon as, you know, Shemani told her like, listen, I'm having shortness of breath,it's hard to talk, woke up, her mom was like, these are signs of having a pulmonary
(00:31):
embolism.
When preparedness meets the blunt and sudden nature of the unexpected, we do our best toaccommodate and accept this new path we're focused to navigate.
Though many acclimate through resilience and the acceptance of what is, how do we findhope along the seemingly hopeless path?
(00:53):
Even though you know we were also well informed we went with the information get by youknow the.
I just probably needs to rest probably overwork.
They said they can't really you know about her they need to and again like I said you know13 days later.
ended up passing away from a pulmonary embolism.
(01:18):
Every six minutes, somebody in America dies of a blood clot.
We're here to change that statistic.
Welcome to Taking a Breath, a stop the clot podcast.
An award-winning podcast dedicated to bringing awareness of the dangers of blood clotsfrom the clotting disorders community to the world.
With the help of many notable blood clot survivors, we are here to give you the knowledgeand the skills you need to prevent this silent killer.
(01:45):
My name is Leslie Lake.
I am the president of the National Blood Clot Alliance and I am a blood clot survivor.
and my name is Todd Robertson.
I am the patient engagement liaison for the National Blood Clot Alliance and I am a seventime blood clot survivor.
And we're here to stop the clot.
(02:10):
Navigating tragedy is one of life's most difficult endeavors.
The shifting from a reality you loved and knew so well into a world you never wished to bea part of creates a numbing dissonance that many of us, unfortunately, know all too well.
Today, we are joined by someone whose courage and tenacity in the face of loss is nothingshort of inspiring.
(02:35):
Our guest today is a father, partner, artist, activist,
and co-founder of the Area Foundation.
Here to discuss the life and legacy of his partner, Shamani Gibson, please join me inwelcoming the wonderful Omari Maynard.
My name is Omari Maynard.
(02:56):
I am the father of Uriah, Anari, and Kari, and I am the son of Dolores and Elton, theco-founder of the ARIA Foundation.
ARIA stands for the Advancement of Reproductive Innovation through Artistry and Hair Loss.
And I'm just thankful to be here.
Thank you for the to just be vulnerable with you all and, you know, try to create.
(03:19):
where these type of conversations happen more often so that, you know, just as a communitywe're all better informed and understanding that everybody's going through something.
So everybody's got to be able to be willing to share their experience to help the nextperson.
So, thankful to be here.
Armani is an amazing, amazing woman.
very, man, she was very, she could be a stubborn woman as well.
(03:44):
Our relationship was, it was, I always say that he was one of the few people where Iremember.
the exact moment when I saw her.
We both worked at the athletic league, worked at different sites.
I was in Brooklyn site, but she was at a different Brooklyn site.
(04:06):
But we all had to get together for training in Harlem.
While we were at the training, but then maybe the f-
second day at the training I saw her walking across the gym and I was in the because I waslike, my god.
the heck is that?
She's beautiful.
And then that was pretty much it.
Maybe about a year later, I ended up actually getting transferred to her side.
(04:26):
And that's when.
actually, you know, built a friendship first, you know, and just started kind ofconnecting that way.
I don't remember moments like that, you know, often uh just in respect to life.
You know so as far as our relationship goes our relationship was like many other peopleyou know.
(04:51):
And it was amazing definitely had that honeymoon phase where we you know couldn't getenough of each other she's super funny very witty fiery you know said was on the mind, but
she was also very guarded just dealing with you know.
You know she just that we have in the grow up you know.
Always forthcoming.
with affection with
(05:15):
letting people that you know, but she let me and you know, and I always appreciated that.
And you know like many young knucklehead man I knew what I had you know and enjoyed what Ihad but also felt like I needed something.
So how did.
(05:36):
So we ended up breaking up and as soon as we did that I was like this is not where I wantto be.
And you know, we ended up getting back together.
Actually, it was very funny.
During that time, I ended up leaving.
He ended up leaving.
And then.
I got a job with the Harlem Children's Zone and so
(05:58):
Very likely that I would be seeing anybody from.
Brooklyn in that type of situation that can root.
But I up going to Michael's one day with my son and I was walking to Michael's.
I it was like near Central Park.
she was coming down the block the other way, know, and she just so happened to leavepolice athletically and get in a job.
(06:21):
Which was going to see, you know, that kind of part that rekindled our connection and,know, ever since then, it.
like, we locked in.
And that's exactly what it was.
know, we were locked in and this time around, want to say like it was April dating andApril.
(06:44):
of 2016.
again and I want to she you know and you know it was really quick and in hindsight I'mextremely thankful for you know the way we played out but you know we really had to grow
(07:08):
up
relationship really fast and a lot of things that I had to give up as a true father.
having to give up the things that Ari wanted to do, know, it felt like he should do inaddition to having
really ship and building a family.
but just in retro, had to shift and didn't know how to do that shift.
(07:32):
And she was always pushing that shift and it was like, man, we would bump heads.
We wanted the same thing, but we wanted to do them differently.
And it took a lot of time trying to kind of figure out that balance, being in thisrelationship while making sure that she's covered.
and making sure that our child was brought to this earth safely.
(07:54):
Shemani was, she was a dancer.
She danced.
that she got the scholarship to go to LaGuardia and she ended up getting a collegescholarship to Temple.
But you know that wasn't the path that she wanted to do.
funny, she was funny, super witty, athletic, smart, just really thoughtful, thought aboutpeople all the time, and just created space for everybody.
(08:21):
Just her energy, it was infectious, know, she made sure that, you know, she gave people
to be them, but also, you know, just to just light up a room and just, you her presence.
Yeah.
I'll rewind a little bit to talk about Inari's introduction to life first.
being introduced to this new family, right?
(08:43):
And, you know, we got Shemean Shemani and learning who she was as a person and, moreimportant.
for this conversation learning about her family and her background especially.
you know, her mom, Shawnee, know, Shawnee's been in this maternal health space.
She's done a lot of work around reproductive justice, reproductive health, talking abouttrauma, grief, all the things that come with conversations that don't necessarily happen,
(09:07):
like conversations around having a conference called the Motherwick to introduceconversations around stillbirth and miscarriages and releasing pregnancy, you know.
things that are kind of taboo to talk about in community.
But, you know, she created that space and Shemani grew up.
that space, you know, so she has a high level understanding of what is needed in terms ofcommunity, to the world and signs, all that great stuff.
(09:37):
With Anari, we had team of duelers going through the gestation process.
But we ended up having Anari uh and even though we had a team of midwives, which was greatbecause people don't usually have an opportunity, what we found out was that we needed
(10:00):
somebody um
With midwives, anybody who's helping you in that type of capacity, you grow attached tothem, you know?
So like the team concept wasn't really good for us because we were expecting to seesomebody when we go in for business and be somebody.
We were expecting somebody in the living room who wasn't necessarily there to be somebodyelse or.
(10:22):
So it was great and it was very important because we had information, we had informed theteam through the process.
We knew that the second time around.
We wanted just one midwife and one doula.
And we wanted to have an ass.
uh
did not have a great experience at the hospital that we gave birth to an Aryan.
(10:42):
So now we knew we wanted to have another child or multiple children.
Kari wasn't the most planned pregnancy that I've been a part of, but it wasn't necessarilyplanned.
So when we found out that she was pregnant again, it was like, snap, are you serious?
But it was like, all right, this is great.
know, round two, we're doing it again.
(11:02):
And at that point as a partner, as a parent, I was just way more.
informed and excited about this around a third time around for me the second time aroundfor us.
because you know I knew what the expectations were and I'm creating this family unit itwas we were locked in you know.
(11:26):
It up getting the midwife she was great so we had a one midwife and to me that I want ourone doula and the midwife organization that would use this like.
right off the block from me.
We go on for visits, I went to every visit, went to every OBGYN visit, went to everymidwife visit, and when we went, stool a visit, and when we went, was a group of other
(11:47):
families as well.
So yeah.
opportunity to share our experiences with other families who are going through the samething as we were ourselves.
She was healthy, she was ready.
know, we were walking, she was working out.
We had a better.
m
things that we needed this time around.
So you were well informed and ready.
We wanted to try to have a natural.
(12:12):
feedback, which is a vaginal birth after C-section with carring.
And that was the plan, you know, we had our birthing plan, had a team so we just
to execute and.
one night her water broke and so we had set up the house, set up the pool in the house,called doula, called our midwife.
(12:35):
When Shemani's water breaks, know, we wait, counting the contractions.
After a while, instead of the contractions.
closer together, they started to get further apart or just kind of stagnant and uh
The midwife came, she came to the house for a couple of minutes and she was just like, youknow what, just hold tight, but if they get worse, we're gonna have to, or if nothing
(12:56):
happens, if the contractions.
get closer together we're going to have to go to the hospital.
Purchase on hospitals we wanted to go to a hospital percentage of c-sections for birthingso
We ended up having to do that and we went, but still, know, our do was present and youknow, we were hoping for the best, you know, and I think more than anything in that whole
(13:19):
process for anybody who's given birth, right?
We all have a plan.
all, well, I shouldn't say we all have a plan.
We all have something in mind of expectations of what this is supposed to look like andsupposed to be.
Right.
And sometimes that doesn't always work out.
You know, and I think what that said, the most important thing is that you are able to
(13:40):
bring a healthy baby a healthy right and if that happens
the plan has been executed.
So, you know, we go to the hospital and we wait and the thing is, that
with hospitals, unfortunately.
they don't always give you the time that you need because birthing is birthing.
(14:02):
know, some women, bing bang boom, 30 minutes, they in and out, you know.
And others, know, it's bing bang, boom, boom, boom, ting ting ting.
The baby comes on its own time.
And unfortunately, like I said, hospitals, they don't give you that, they don't afford youthat ability.
When they got people coming in and out all the time, you know, so they waited as long asthey could.
(14:24):
And, you know, we eventually had
get a c-section so
was like, all right, you know, it's not what the plan was, but Shemani's
It's time for the baby to come, so let's do it.
we ended up having to get a C-section.
But the thing is, is that we didn't really have any relationship.
with the doctors.
there because we were planning on having a home birth.
(14:45):
Amen.
Couldn't tell you his name couldn't pick him out.
up if he asks me to.
thing is is that Shemani, she had webbing, which is scarred on the uterine lining from ourprevious C-section.
So when it was time for her to cut Kari, well, it time for the doctor to
are open to bring Kari through.
It just took a little bit longer than usual and then car
(15:11):
out, the doctor decided get some Shemani's fibroids out as well.
And at the time I thought, hey, you know, it's great.
And, know, two for one, you know, if we want to have another child, you know, there won'tbe any blockage or they'll, you know, be less likely to have a different type of outcome
for pregnancy because of.
But in hindsight, I learned that, you know, this is a whole separate surgery.
(15:34):
Fibroids are living part of your body that if cut or cut improperly, you know, massivebleeding.
I think honestly, that was kind of beginning of
of her demise
She was already open for too long trying to get through the scar.
tissue and then again having uh more more air to get in.
(16:00):
instead of sewing her up for some reason they ended up, know, she ended up passing away 13days later due to uh blood cuts and her going.
cardiac arrest.
She ended up passing away from a pulmonary embolism.
But between those 13 days, because again, our family is well informed, we know what thesigns and symptoms are, you we're talking to Shemani's mom on a daily basis.
(16:26):
So as soon as Shemani told her, listen, I'm having shortness of breath, it's hard for meto talk to her.
Woke up the steps, her mom was like, this is, these are signs of having a pulmonaryembolism.
And because, you know, her mom is so active in the community, we knew the head of thematernity ward at
that we gave birth that.
(16:46):
we're able to call them on the cell phone and say, this is what's going on, this is what'shappening.
Even though we were also well informed, went with the information.
She just probably needs to rest, she's probably overworked.
themselves, probably doing too much.
So just have her lay down and just cover her.
(17:08):
that's exactly what But in hindsight, class moving through your body, it creates space forthem to move faster and be more aggressive.
but also between that time we were also going back.
to the hospital and telling the doctors exactly what was going on and what should we do.
And every time we went because it wasn't Shaman.
(17:29):
Um, they said they can't really.
And again, like I said, you know, 13 days later.
ended up passing away from a pulmonary
was I know that the silver lining for me.
During that time.
She might as well was like listen, you know, we're going to listen to the doctor so whatwe're going to do is we're to have family come over that friends come over keep our
(17:51):
company, you know clean up the house bring food or that great.
You know, so those final those last couple of days.
A best friend came over and we chopped it up, you know she brought us food and and hangingout and have.
She monies.
was there as well and then the second day or the day ended up functioning.
(18:11):
or going into cardiac arrest.
Her god sister was at the house, her mom was at the house.
and her aunt was at the house, you know, so.
oh
we were all laughing, talking, having fun, you know, and then she reminds me.
listen, man, like my chest really hurts.
to the hospital.
as a...
That's when she ended up going into cardiac arrest in the house, you know, and I...
(18:35):
Say that...
If I was in the house by myself, you know 2 babies, you know my partner I don't know ifI'd be sitting here with you all today.
I don't know what I would.
would have done if I was by myself.
And you know having this conversation with Sean is she also said the same?
So thankful to me to be with my daughter on her last days I don't know what I would do ifI got a phone call from telling me that this is what And you need to get down here as fast
(19:05):
as you can and you know having that situation occur It's funny because I was having thisexact conversation the other day about how I've changed I'm not the same oh
that I was.
in many capacities and aspects.
my life and um
(19:25):
I'm just so glad that I had an opportunity to have these moments.
like, months before she passed away, we were...
arguing arguing about something I don't
whatever you know couples about and with us we go to sleep and I wake up in the morningand I'm looking in.
(19:49):
And just you know just captivated and I'm thinking like in my mind I was.
This is where I want to be there's no other.
that I want to be.
I would want to live.
you know, months later she passes away, you know, and...
(20:11):
huh, man.
I remember walking out the hospital and the sun was shining and my dad was next.
It was my dad and my friend, you know, they're walking on walking out.
I will never be the.
same person, like this is going to forever shift and change.
(20:31):
And I think about other men who have gone through.
loss and suffered loss in a similar fashion.
It's very different.
Because I lost my grandmother pretty much a year to the day.
Losing Shemani and my grandmother is 92.
And I thought she would live forever.
Just an amazing person.
And I miss her and think about her often.
(20:52):
But I bring that up because it's a totally different experience when somebody who you havean opportunity to meet and grow this whole new experience and have these life shifting and
life changing experience with.
in conjunction with with them and you know they suddenly are not here anymore in additionto now reason is this new life that you have this plan that you're going to be doing
(21:20):
together and.
Plan is out the window and so I'm just thankful for community, I'm thankful for all thecovering that I got the reason that.
I was able to be an advocate the reason why I was able to.
My life that had to quit teaching had to do a lot of different things was the only way Iwas able to do is because of community.
(21:48):
I was covered in a way that I know of them people don't have the opportunity to becovered.
I was getting phone calls text messages people were showing up with gift cards to push onup with diapers and pamper had a press for like a year.
being covered by community and like I said, the knowing that, know, the go from me that wehad the diapers, the wipes, the phone calls are still all coming in the mill trains, you
(22:13):
know, so there were some things that I didn't have.
uh You know, and then lastly, having the opportunity to be covered by my job.
And in addition to having COVID, I was able to be home, you know, and that gave me anopportunity to plan and figure things out and really sit with myself, really sit with my
brief, really sit with my trauma.
and figure out.
(22:34):
how I was going to have to shift in creating this new life for myself and my family.
You know, I'm an artist, Shemani's an artist.
I was teaching at the time, but like two years, three years prior, we started a businesscalled Art for Living.
And Art for Living is basically a lifestyle brand where we would use art and artisticmodalities to create community.
(22:54):
So we would do sipping paints, we would do t-shirt making, we would do glass etching, wewould do...
wood carving, would do speed dating, we would do anything that you could think of to beable to create community.
And that showed me one that we both could use art as a way to express ourselves, but as away to also create income, generate income and build this business together, which also
(23:19):
created a different avenue for our relationship to grow as well.
Wow, I'm like crying and laughing and all kinds of different emotions listening to this.
mean, it's incredible.
You touched on something earlier about pulmonary embolism and we're the National BloodClot Alliance.
(23:40):
So obviously we're talking about blood clots, but there's something bigger here, which ismaternal health and in particular black maternal health.
And so talk to us about kind of what I perceive to be the forgotten group of people, whichare.
the men and the fathers that are actually impacted by this.
Because we don't talk a lot about this.
(24:00):
And so, in your words, in your mind, in your feelings, what role can men play in thismaternal health advocacy?
I don't think people realize how serious this is in our country, a country that has somuch.
And yet this is happening at our doorstep.
So what role can men play?
(24:21):
Because it can't be just women out there saying,
This is a problem like everybody's got to be buying into this, that this is a big issuehere.
Yeah.
Definitely.
It's it's a huge issue.
And unfortunately, like I think that talking about it is taboo.
Like black and brown women, indigenous women are three to four times more likely to passaway due to internal health complications than...
(24:50):
And the numbers show roughly 800 to 900 women a year, you know, and those are the ones...
that are documented.
But this bigger conversation is maternal morbidity.
Like maternal morbidity is, you we start to 10x that number.
So it's hundreds of thousands of women who are suffering these near death experiences andnow have these traumatic experiences.
(25:18):
And Shemani was one of those people with our first baby.
But because, you know, I think C-sections and just giving birth in hospitals and kind ofjust having this one cookie cutter model.
is so prevalent in our community.
We don't even think about the trauma that comes with it if it does not go right.
For the mother and also for the birthing partner, right?
(25:39):
Because the birthing partner also is traumatized, but also has to be there for theirpartner who is dealing with the traumatic situation as well.
I think that, well, I know that it's so commonplace that people don't really understandthe
power of their own stories, right?
(26:00):
And their power of being able to share those stories so that other people can resonatewith them and then can get together or create other opportunities for, you know, bigger
conversations to happen, which is how do we change the medical model, right?
And so that's one.
One is, you know, just people just don't feel like it's that serious, I guess.
(26:23):
But I think that from
a partner standpoint, which is, like I said, we don't really talk about it when you're,especially this very, like I said it earlier, it's very special, different circumstance
when you lose somebody and you're bringing new life into the world.
And now as a man, the plan goes out the window and you don't necessarily know how to dealand handle.
(26:52):
I think on top of that,
you feel like kind of the only person who's going through this.
Well, there's not really too many people you can talk to about it.
Wholeheartedly, we as men don't give ourselves enough opportunities to create space wherewe can be as expressive as we need to be.
Sometimes it sucks, this is hard, and that is it.
(27:17):
There is no...
Gambit right there is no real space where it's like I'm dealing with this this this thisand that I don't know how to do this this this and that and Not necessarily even trying to
find answers for it, but just saying the thing out loud You know where now you have anopportunity to honor that and more Things you know because it's extremely valid and then
(27:40):
you know figure out how to shift and I know that for me really changed my life because IDidn't have to carry that burden
by myself, I didn't have to sugarcoat those feelings because I knew that they would behonored and protected.
And I knew that I could get, if not answers, at least empathy from other men.
(28:03):
And I wanted to make sure that I passed that on because I knew that that was a specialthing.
So fast forward about six months later, Amber Isaac Rose ends up passing away and herpartner, Bruce McIntyre,
was left with this baby and was an amazing child and also lost his partner.
(28:25):
I wanted to make it happen.
I afforded him the same opportunity.
I called him and we talked and we talked and me and him have a very special bond to thisday.
having that, being able to do that, I knew that there was a need for it.
It was just kind of a matter of
(28:46):
If you don't see it, then you gotta build it.
With our foundation, we started a subset called the Luxor Collective where we meetvirtually every other Thursday and I invite men who have suffered from trauma and loss and
grief through the medical system to sit and just have conversations about life.
(29:11):
We've been doing it for the last two or three years now and it's shifted from
just from that to in addition to creating space for men to just talk to other men, otherblack men specifically, to talk to other men.
Because we harbor so much grief and trauma of just being black and American and don'treally have space where we can have those conversations with how do we honor our feelings?
(29:36):
How do we grow from them?
How do we use them?
How do we utilize them?
How do we impart our wisdom on other people?
How do we just say the things that
are on people's mind, but you don't even know because there was no space to have thatconversation in the first place.
In doing that, you see like, and it becomes heavy sometimes, but you see like the...
(30:02):
You don't know what you need until you get it sometimes.
And you see the need for me specifically, I could talk about myself, but I could also talkabout the men who's in the space.
The need to just consistently work through your emotions because we're dealing with somuch as a society every day.
We don't realize how heavy the world can be on us.
(30:25):
It just takes an hour, an hour and a half sometimes to just sit with your feelings and sitwith others and just talk.
or just listen, but giving you the fuel to be able to learn how to navigate and just growas an individual on a daily, weekly, monthly basis to create better situations for
(30:46):
yourself, for your family, and then ultimately community.
It's a really powerful thing, and it's a beautiful thing.
thing.
a beautiful thing and you're creating something very, very special.
How do you want medical professionals to better understand patient care for black women inparticular?
You've created this group, this community.
You've lived something that most people haven't and never will.
(31:11):
What do want these medical professionals to know?
ah So, and I'm gonna say this, but I also just wanna preface it first, because I spokeabout it, touched on it earlier a little bit, you know, with our midwife and our doula.
And I know this is true for the medical community as well, right?
(31:33):
For doctors, nurses, medical professionals, doctors particularly, you know, they're heldin high regard, but it's not what it used to be.
And a lot of them are just overworked.
A lot of them are overworked, understaffed, doing doubles, doing triples.
And it takes a toll on the body.
takes a toll on the mental.
(31:54):
And it takes a toll on your emotional capacity to be empathetic and sympathetic sometimes.
And when that happens, and the concern is, what do I need to do so that I can sustainmyself?
sometimes over arches what does my patient need in order for them to get what they camehere for so that we don't have to have this situation reoccurring.
(32:28):
And sometimes when that happens, a good passion for anybody, it just kind of falls to thewayside sometimes.
So I would say that one, I...
understand the plight, but this is also something that you signed up for, right?
And it's important that when people come in for care, regardless of whether they haveprivate insurance or Medicaid or Medicare or no insurance at all, or is dealing with
(32:53):
psychological issues or physical issues or disabilities, we all need and deserve theproper care for us to be able to be productive members of the society.
That doesn't happen all the time because
There is stigmas that come with who is deserving and who isn't.
With the medical community, just medical history in general, Black and Brown people havealways not given the things that they need when it comes to maternal healthcare, know,
(33:23):
pushing midwives and granny midwives and doulas out the door because they don't haveaccreditation.
And then bringing in this medical model so that we can birth, you know, it creates a spaceof cultural disconnect.
And when we're compounding on that with all the other things that we're dealing with inthe medical system, it just creates situations like that I've been in and many other men
(33:50):
and women and families I've been in.
I would say that one, it's important to just step back and just have compassion, but alsotwo, it's important to...
ask for help and guidance.
know that when we talk about birthing specifically, midwives and doulas, they're part ofevery system except the United States, And it's working in so many different places.
(34:14):
There are so many different examples of what it looks like and how it's beneficial foreverybody that's partaking in it.
But it's not a model that we're using here.
And I pray that with this...
pushing or with maternal health being a hot button topic over the last couple of yearsthat birthing options and birthing teams become more prevalent.
(34:39):
So having a midwife and a doula and a nurse and a doctor and a lactation consultant and atherapist working in conjunction to help create better systems for us, I pray that that
comes about.
And in addition to your question earlier, how do you
bring in fathers into the fold so that they are not only informed but acknowledged, youknow, and creating systems where paternal health is also as important, right?
(35:09):
Where you have this curriculum for fathers to take care of themselves and their partnerand their newborn once they come, specifically during postpartum, because postpartum is
where we're losing most of our women.
It's it's imperative.
It has to happen in order for us to
really create the shift that we all want to see.
Yeah, I think you're right.
(35:30):
is imperative.
It needs to be included and there's just not enough conversation about it.
Yes, definitely.
Talk to us about Aftershock, how that came to be, what it was, how it's influenced you,how people can learn more about it, because it is a very powerful, powerful thing.
Yes, thank you.
So Aftershock, if you have not seen Aftershock, go check out Aftershock.
(35:51):
It is streaming on Hulu right now.
And it's a beautiful documentary.
It's an amazing documentary.
We won a Peabody Award.
We were Emmy nominated.
We won a slew of other awards and Film Festival and part of many different films.
But the documentary follows myself.
(36:11):
Shawnee Gibson and Bruce McIntyre in our maternal health story.
Pretty much from the beginning, know, Shemani passed away October 11th, 2019, which isalso the same day as my birthday.
We were provided the opportunity to film on December 19th, 2019, which is her birthday,because we created an event called Aftershock.
(36:38):
And, you know, the producer of the film,
Paula Eisel came to just see, you cause she was like, I want to create a film aroundmaternal health.
But she saw how what we did with our community.
event called Aftershock and she said that, you know what, I want to follow your family.
So it was really kind of from the rawest moments of our lives.
(37:00):
It was two months after Shemani passed away and they followed us for about a year and ahalf.
It goes through all of the emotions.
It was the worst time of my life, to be honest.
I was losing weight.
My bed was all over the place.
I couldn't think straight, but I'm so happy that.
(37:23):
people got a chance to see what grief and growth look like, right?
What grieving and leading looks like uh and the fact that what community engagement lookslike in this maternal health space because it's so important.
having that first conversation with Bruce and me and him chopping it up that first night,he told me that he had to bury Amber on his birthday as well.
(37:51):
So when you have those things, those types of things that are in alignment, it's reallylike, as much as we both maybe didn't want to be in this space and want to do this work,
was like Shemani and Amber was like slapping us both in the face saying, this is what youhave to do.
I don't care what you think, this is happening.
(38:13):
know, so as horrific as it sounds and as hard as it was,
the knowing that somebody else actually had to go through this.
And more importantly, like somebody that I connected with outside of even having thatinitial conversation, it was just confirmation that we were on the right path.
(38:35):
And that more importantly, as men, we need to be advocates in this space for not justwomen and reproductive justice and maternal health, but also how do we create a form, an
opportunity.
to bring fathers into the fold in a more intentional way.
But it's a beautiful film.
Please go check it out.
It'll change your life.
(38:56):
It goes through the history of maternal health care, reproductive health, transition togranny midwives, to having births in hospitals, and then how we can create more
opportunities for birthing centers, for birthing options, for just people having a betterunderstanding of what healthcare looks like now in 2025.
(39:17):
and systems that can be put in place for us to redirect birthing outcomes.
Yeah, it's incredibly well done.
It's beautiful.
I've watched it so many times for everybody listening to us here today.
It's aftershock.
It's on Hulu.
I was at a conference last year, all clinicians, all doctors, et cetera, in the audience.
(39:38):
And I actually spoke about maternal health in this country.
And it was amazing to me how many people didn't realize the impact of the problem.
And it's not that they didn't care.
They didn't know.
And so here I am as a lay person talking about my pulmonary embolism and I'm like, Hey,you guys all need to know about this.
(39:59):
And I played pieces of aftershock and they were like, we just, didn't know.
And so that reached people, which will reach more people, which will reach more people.
And yes, we're talking about pulmonary embolism at the national blood clot Alliance, butthis it's bigger than that, right?
It's bigger than that.
Amari, thank you for joining us here today.
(40:20):
This has been an incredible conversation.
You're going to reach so many people.
I know we're going to save lives because of this episode.
Please keep doing the incredible work that you're doing.
And I just want to say, we want to work with you.
We want to raise awareness around this terrible issue.
This is more than just blood clots and pulmonary embolism.
This is, you know, something that at a national level should not be happening in ourcountry.
(40:46):
Women should not be dying.
Maternal mortality should not be an issue in this country and it's going to take all of ustogether to make sure that this stops.
But we have the power to do it together.
So thank you.
We want to thank Omari one more time for sharing his journey and illuminating us with thelegacy and light of Shemona Gibson.
(41:11):
As always, thank you for joining us on another episode of Taking a Breath.
For more information on risk, prevention, and community, please visit StopTheClaught.org.
And if you wish to aid in our efforts of blood clot awareness, please consider donating toour cause at StopTheClaught.org.
(41:32):
oh
forward slash donate.
We know the patient because we are the patient.
Together with listeners like you, we can collectively stop the clot.
For more information, visit stoptheclot.org.
Another Everything Podcast production.
(41:53):
Visit.
everythingpodcast.com, a division of Patterson Media.
Subscribe wherever you get your podcast.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.