October 23, 2023 • 55 mins
Ever found yourself reminiscing about your first psychedelic experience while listening to the Grateful Dead? Or how about that time when you unearthed your love for genres you didn't even know existed? Join my dear friend Kurt and I as we take a trip down memory lane, discussing our shared love for music, and our unforgettable concert experiences including our time at the Grateful Dead concert at Deer Creek in 1992. Kurt opens up about his musical journey, how he transitioned from '80s rap to alternative music, and eventually got hooked on the Grateful Dead.
A trip to our younger days wouldn't be complete without our local hangouts and our penchant for camping and Waffle House visits. Remember the era of cassette tapes, copying our favorite music, and sharing it with each other? Kurt relives these moments, along with our longest concert at the World Mardi Gras watching P-Funk. He also introduces us to his passion for MIDI music.
Vægaënic Vibez on SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/vaegaenicvibez
Our musical journey doesn't stop there. We also explore the modern bands that have caught our attention. Bands like Goose, with their amazing guitar player, and Corey Wong's funk-rock sound. We dive into the realm of 'sad dad music', particularly the tunes of Gregory Alan Isakov. And who could forget the exceptional drumming of Bill Kreuzman from the Grateful Dead's early days? Tune in for an episode steeped in music, memories, and laughter.
This episode is sponsored by ShakedownTshirts.com with unique lot-style T-shirts and gifts for Grateful Dead, Phish, Zappa, Panic, and more. All US orders over $35 Ship Free. Use code "Lot20" for 20% off any order.
Tales From The Lot
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Tales from the Lot, episode 20.
That bus has a lot of wheels,an old friend joins me to talk,
62892 at Deer Creek and a wholebunch of other shows we saw
together.
Here we go.
Hi, welcome to Tales from theLot.
This is Will.
My guest this week is Kurt.
He's from Peru, indiana, and Ikind of know him for like 20, 30
(00:22):
, 43, I don't even know how manyyears, but how you doing, kurt,
I'm doing good Thanks, thanksfor coming on here.
We, kurt and I, saw a ton ofshows together and so we'll go
over a bunch of that, buthonestly I don't know when we
met.
I can't remember when we met,like 90?
.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah, I was like 15 or 16.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah, I don't remember the moment though.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I don't either.
It must have been throughJohnny.
Do you know Johnny?
Maybe through them.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I think it was.
I think it was.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
And then.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So you know, I sort of know your family was a
musical family.
What were you listening togrowing up before I met you as a
kid and through your gradeschool and middle school years,
musically.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I'll give a brief 20 minutes prologue.
My parents were both musicians.
My dad is a songwriter.
They were into Christian music,that kind of stuff, you know,
but the music I got into thefirst tape I ever bought was the
Boogie Boys, which was likethis early 80s rap group.
(01:36):
They had this song called A FlyGirl.
I remember that I was like 11years old and I found this tape
and I thought it was so cool.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So sorry to interrupt you, but I just bought that on
record like two weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
The Boogie Boys.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
With Fly Girl on it and like, really, yeah, and
you're so fly, you're so fly, goahead With yourself.
A fly, a fly, a fly, a fly, afly, a fly.
Yeah, that's hilarious.
I literally just like two weeksago, bought that on my phone.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
That was it.
That was the first set I everhad.
I thought it was so cool.
And then I got in some like RunDMC, you know the Fat Boys.
We did some rap, you know.
And then I remember I boughtthe Poison album.
You know the one that had EveryRoad's has a Sword, right with
the tongue or whatever on it.
Yeah, yeah, in which I don'tknow how I convinced my parents.
(02:24):
Maybe I snuck around and boughtit, you know, or something.
Yeah, they wouldn't have let meout.
There's a being in a religiouscouncil for them.
But then, like when I got intohigh school, I met Todd Gee.
I don't know if you rememberwho I'm talking about, but he's
an artist alternative music.
He loves Susie Mabanchese.
(02:46):
That was like his jam and so heturned me out of them and it's
like the cure and all these likegot fans.
So I got really developed for alittle bit, and that's what I
was into when I met you.
I think I was like yeah, yeah,definitely.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
I remember you were like the first person to tell me
about, like Morrissey and theSmiths.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, Morrissey and the Smiths.
I loved James Addiction andthat was like that was the music
from our era.
You know and I really got intothat stuff.
But I didn't even know who tobreak the dead work until I met
Matt Lee and he had like thist-shirt on.
I was like who's that I'm notinto heavy metal?
(03:29):
You know heavy metal bands likethe great Right, it's like some
heavy metal.
And then, well, we went to yourhouse and you played an album.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Yeah, it was your 72.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Your 72.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
That was the first album I heard.
It was also the first time Ihad ever taken psychedelics.
Oh yeah, so out in your garage,man Remember that I do.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, I had a wannabe Midwestern punk band going on
in there.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Oh yeah, so it was my first psychedelic experience
and also the first time duringthe Grateful Dead, and I
remember you put on truckingafter we got going there, you
know, like an hour into the trip, and I kept on thinking, okay,
it's cool, so country.
(04:25):
It just kept going and it keptgoing.
And I remember looking at youlike dude, is this still
trucking?
Oh yeah, I remember that I gotlike I rewired my brand or
something here in that, truckingall the way through into the
morning.
That was it.
(04:46):
I was on the bus, you know.
Yeah for sure.
So then I don't know how muchlonger it was that summer, but
Grateful Dead came to Deer Creek, to 92.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
And that was my second psychedelic experience.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
It was.
I gave that one a listen and acouple things stood out to me.
The first set as a monsterhelps look fray Tons of other
sort of first set staples, andthen it ends with a new speedway
or something.
Yeah, and new speedway,smokestack lightning to end the
(05:26):
first set Like what's going onthere?
Speaker 2 (05:31):
You know, as a I was like 17, maybe I was 16.
I don't know.
I was pretty young and justlike I had just gotten turned on
to this stuff.
So to me I'd heard Europe 72.
And I think we'd listened to itout of the net.
So I was a little familiar withsome of the new stuff.
But I didn't really.
I just remember thinking likethese these old beatnik hippie
(05:55):
dudes were up there and they'rejust playing the funkiest far
out jazzy music, you know.
And it just blew my mind.
I was trying to remember, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
The China writer, and then so the estimated.
I mean, if you're intoestimated, bob Weir, ha, fests
like that one is particularlygood, and then after that it
just sort of just melts.
It just melts down for a fewand that's a great estimated.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
One thing I remember.
I mean, we were experiencingthis together.
I was standing right next toyou and I remember I'd never
heard some of the songs.
When we started playing, jerrystarted singing to lay me down
and I've never heard this song.
I remember you had such areaction to it Wow, you know,
this is just some slow songs andyou know, looking back now I'm
(06:45):
like realizing how special thatwas.
That was a treat, yeah, and andoddly enough, the Casey Jones
is sort of a treat too, Becauseat that point it had been many a
year, you know, I can'tremember exactly but it's been a
while since.
it's been a while yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, and, and another thing that, if I could
add that the China doll, theguitar solo that Jerry rips in
there, which is like the Jerryslow song at the end of the
second set, which it doesn'tusually do, but but the Tony's
got in there, is just so nasty,like, just like, just the right
amount of distortion, just.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
And it's in such a weird place like the band at
that time.
You know Vince on his own,which you know in 30 years of
perspective.
Looking back, I kind of likethe shows with Vince alone
sometimes better, just becausehe was like trailing with him
playing with Bruce.
It didn't always turn out asgood with Vince, but he could
(07:46):
really shine on his own and, man, the band was like the wheels
were falling off, but they'vebeen falling off a long time,
you know, and that that bus hada lot of wheels you know it's
still had that further sign onthe front of it.
(08:07):
Yeah, so it wasn't as good asthey've been, like that era not
just not that show, but justthat era.
But there were still a fewconcerts.
We saw that they were the realgrateful guys there that kicked
it up.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, I think the following year the Buckeye Lake
show, the one where you were,the one where Sting opened,
right.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah, I was there for that.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, I think that one in particular, which you can
see the whole show on YouTubenow.
Yeah, it's just amazing, like,yeah, we did see some great
shows, actually, I pulled it up.
So, like, did you go toRichfield I think Richfield 93
in the spring?
You might have been and youwere still in school at that
time.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I don't think I went to that one, but I was at that
legendary 94 Richfield show.
The one with the Stella Blue andthe Love Line.
I just listened to that theother day and it was.
I didn't.
I hadn't listened to it in along time and I was shocked at
how good that show was.
They're all in sync.
Jerry's voice sounds great andhe's playing these licks.
(09:12):
That it's like okay.
Yeah, I know he's got to die.
Be mean to him All the problemswith our thrace, but man, he
could still rip it up, yeah.
Yeah for certain, I mean I mean, look at this.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
We probably saw 15, 12, 15 shows together Grateful
Dead shows, silverfield 94, deerCreek 94 and 93.
You know what, though, Iremember, right before Deer
Creek 93, we brought theGrateful Dead movie from
Blockbuster or somewhere and toyour house to watch with your
(09:50):
dad, to turn him into a deadhead.
Yeah, we do.
Yeah, we.
Right there in your living roomwe watched the Grateful Dead
movie and that's well.
That's what got your dad sortof on board with going.
He's like they're not bad.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
He went to.
Was it 93?
He went to 94.
He went to one of those boxeswith me.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Right.
So like I have this, this vividmemory of you and I rolling up
to his office, because he wassort of the boss of what he was
doing, and we go up there andhe's on the phone and he's like
yeah, I gotta go, yeah, I gottago.
Listen, I'm going to a GratefulDead concert.
I gotta go and you guys take itoff to that.
And I think we met yousomewhere along the way Because
(10:30):
I was like you know, I was toocool for that.
I was like I like your dad andall.
But I think I'm going to gohang out with these people who
are taking the ass.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I kind of remember a little bit.
You know my dad.
Like I said, he's intoChristian music but he was a
good dad.
He still was a good dad.
He's still around and he alwaysshowed up.
He was there, he'd show up,he'd go to all the stuff and I
think, you know, I'm like 17 or18, and he wanted to see what I
(10:59):
was into.
And it's weird because that'stheir era.
You know the great thing aboutthat he never got into that
stuff.
He was into other music, nevergot into the hippie shit, you
know, but I think it was just.
He was a fish out of water man,you know, doing cartwheels and
kicking their balls off.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Didn't he take your mother back the next year, or
something like that?
Like no, no, no, no, okay, allright.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I still, I was a good dad.
I was a good dad.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
For sure.
Have you been to Taylor Swiftor something?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I'd be like taking my girl yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
So you went.
You went West also.
Right, you saw a bunch of showsthat I didn't see out on the
West Coast.
Did you go with Matt to those,or?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
who was.
I went with the late greatChris.
Oh, I'll say some Chris Long.
He's not with us anymore, whichis sad because he was a great
guy.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
He was.
He was a truly great guy Likehe was like just a good soul.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, he was a deep dude and he called me up one day
and he's like dude, we're goingto West Coast tour.
I went with him, and also thelate great Tully.
Remember him.
He's not with us anymore either.
Jeff Jeffrey Sullivan.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Oh right.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
He went with us, but he was.
He was like full work at thatpoint and I didn't really hang
out much.
He somehow make it back to thecar after the concert, you know.
Go on to the next one Difficultyeah.
We went out there, all we careabout out there, and I mean I
(12:55):
got some good stories about thattrip.
That was my first like realtrip out West, you know without
my parents or something, and itwas.
It was magical, like rolling upover Washington state and like
over the mountains and thesunrise.
It was truly magical.
And then getting into Seattle,you know Seattle is known for it
(13:18):
to be always rainy and this islate May and it's the most
gorgeous day.
It's like 78 degrees, sun isshining.
You know all the heads are outpartying and you could hear the
music outside the venueperfectly, just like being in
the lawn.
So we went into the first night.
We got there late and I sawlike half the first set and the
(13:41):
site was finished In Seattle.
I don't know the name of it,Just whatever War Memorial maybe
, I don't know.
Okay, sorry to interrupt you.
You're looking up this isspring two or 95.
So we went to the first concertand it was.
It was okay.
The second night we didn't getin but we sat outside and we're
(14:03):
just sitting on a blankethanging out and they played.
They played a Starlet Fire.
I don't know if you've heardthis one, but the fire in the
mountain.
Jerry got this crazy effect,this like octave.
We was like you know, so weI've never heard him play
anything like that and it was.
(14:24):
You can tell he's having somuch fun.
He's like trying out new soundand like really getting into it
and that was a treat.
That was really cool.
The rest of the shows weren'tthat great.
Portland, like I remember him,he played um, they played Shake
Down and Jerry didn't even.
He wouldn't even play the solo,it was just the rest of the
band you know just playingrhythm.
(14:46):
He's just kind of like, oh,doing his thing, you know, um,
so those weren't that great, butit was an awesome experience.
It was really cool seeing allthat part of it but we, we
decided Chris and his wife atthe time, we were with his
sister too Um, all of us decidedwe're going to camp in out in
the mountains in Oregon.
We're just going to take thiswater trail, you know, take him
(15:10):
up there and camp Right.
That sounds great, that soundscool, yeah.
And so you were actually there.
And then there's thesetornadoes, man of mosquitoes,
like rural giant columns, likeswirling, and they descended
upon us and we're smokingcigarettes, we're smoking fiber
too, with everything that'sspoken, maybe we'll get them
(15:31):
stoned or something.
Believe us a lot.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
They'll lose their way and go away.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
No, it didn't happen and so finally we gave up.
We're like we can't, we'regoing to get killed here by
these mosquitoes, you know.
Yeah, so we left and we'recoming down the mountain and I'm
following them and we hit theroad and we hit this.
I hit this pot hole orsomething and I got clapped.
But just, we made it like Idrove.
(15:57):
It was real close to the mainroad.
I kind of drove to the road andjust pulled over.
I'm like what am I going to do?
You know, I don't know, this is1995.
No, I don't know, you know, andthis guy, this these hippies
like pulled over, the guy likegot out, helped me fix the tire
(16:20):
and was just like the kindestguy, you like gave me some buds,
you know, and he's like you mangot you, you know, my guardian
angel.
So just that kind of trip, justa lot of positive vibes.
It was really cool.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, I remember when you came back from that, yeah,
you came back from that talkingabout the the Jerry Whale call.
You're like dude, he's doingthese crazy yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
It's from that fire in the mountain.
It just blew my mind and I'venever heard him do something
like that.
And you know we're talkingabout the later day grateful bed
I.
I just loved the direction theywere going.
They came up, came out with allthis new material and some of
the songs were easy answered.
I like eternity.
I think the lyrics are reallydumb but the song itself was
(17:10):
cool, like the jam they would do.
I was listening to that richfield 94 show and not a 10 of
these are good, yeah, and it'slike a good blue song, but they
would take it like the nextlevel, you know, and like lazy
river road so many roads, greatsong.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Yeah, so many roads.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Great song Days between yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
So they had some really good material they were
working on.
Yeah, the time was up, you know, but I would have loved it.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Even Liberty's okay.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, I was groomed with that the other day.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
It's okay when you don't hear it every night.
I felt like there's a minutethere where we were hearing it,
you know, every other night orso.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I thought the law.
Everyone just started growingin the air, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Time to go.
There's a cool song, you knowwe were there for the first one
of those, by the way.
Was that the first game 93.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Oh, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yeah, jeremy and I drove over there and then I
think you did, you fly orsomething.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
You came the second day.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
I think I came to.
I know I went to Rosefont withMatt B.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
You were at Richfield 93 and I'm pretty sure you flew
and we went and picked you upat the airport.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Really.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Because we had.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
we got snowed out the first night and they got
canceled and there was a bigparty and we all just partied in
this hotel and then you hadsomething.
Are you thinking?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
I don't know if it's because I flew into Memphis and
this was definitely Richfieldbecause there was the Terrapin
station and that super weird,carina.
Yeah, which I like that songnow.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
It's a kung fu morning.
The sun is shining on me.
I'm just trying to get my spacetogether, can't you see?
I need some kung fu coffee.
Ugh, I had this 8 o'clockmeeting at the office and I'm
(19:18):
not feeling it here.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
babe, try some kung fu coffee.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Kung fu coffee.
Damn, that coffee kicked my ass.
There's five more bands at thefestival today and I didn't
sleep at all last night.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Here, try some kung fu coffee.
Motherf*****, that coffeekicked my ass.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Our coffee beans are growing in our secret laboratory
deep underground in Canada, therecipe handed down from my
uncle Tom.
Our facility is protected byseveral hundred top-notch ninjas
who also participate ingrinding the beans with their
bare hands.
And well, I suppose that'swhere we got our name.
(20:10):
It's a kung fu morning.
The sun is shining on me.
I'm just trying to get my spacetogether, Can't you see?
I need some kung fu coffee.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Kung fu coffee.
It kicks your ass.
Okay, so you're a bit of amusician yourself too, right?
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, I mean.
Yeah, I mean I've been playingguitar for like 30 years but I'm
not very good at it.
I know enough to like play thesongs I like and I've been
working on scales and trying tobe able to do some lead.
Mostly I just play chords andstuff.
But what I like to do is likeMIDI music.
(21:03):
You know, I like to make like a.
It's not really reggae, butit's in that style, like that's
the roots, that's my roots, thereggae dub stuff, and so I kind
of take that approach to mymusic.
I still work with Johnny andSpencer.
We do a lot of music togetherand they're still doing stuff
(21:23):
too.
We all use recent software,which it's great because I can
do.
I can plug in my guitar andchord analog and also play MIDI
with my keyboard.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Speaking of our local hots back in the day, there was
one in particular that I didthe Waffle House.
I don't even, I can't evenexplain why groups of teenagers
would hang out there in thenumber of like 10 to 12 to 13 of
us.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Sometimes it's a lost .
People do that anymore, youknow, Maybe some people do, but
not as much.
Maybe we grew up there.
We spent hours.
We did.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
We would just drink coffee and bullshit until the
sun came up sometimes.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, we would just go out by one pot of coffee.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Pour a way to the sun .
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Right, we'd go out to your car and smoke dudes and
look into the bed all night.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah, oh, man, just okay.
So the last episode of this Idid I did with a guy who was at
the Warlock show and so I waslistening to that and brushing
up and I was just like listeningto that just took me back to a
moment sitting with you at thecar, like playing a kazoo or
something, listening to thisWarlock show.
(22:48):
Just like I knew this thing.
Note from, note from thathappening.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah, we wore those tapes out.
You would send off your Maxl XLtwos to like a random.
Just people use them how itwent like a concert or something
and they sent you back to thesix generation tape.
Some of them are good, no, butwe had, we loved it.
They were treasured possessions.
When I think Peru, I had allthese old cassettes and we just
(23:19):
we didn't have the room for Igot rid of them.
But I was just the whole timelike man.
I poured so much energy intothe living creatures at this
point, you know, but it's sodeep for me.
We've got everything bettersounding on the internet and
fall free.
Archive.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
It's true.
Yeah, you can go to theinternet archive and really just
pull up anything you need, andit's all there Did you keep your
tapes.
You still got them.
No, I let them go a long ago.
I do have somewhere in theneighborhood of thousands of
final records still.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
There you go, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
But no, I got rid of the tapes, just didn't need them
.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Yeah, I mean there's.
Yeah, I don't even have acassette player, it was just,
these were the treasuredpossessions.
We worked so hard to collectthem and I remember going into
your little bedroom and we'dhave, you know, just have it
running, constantly makingcopies of the tapes that you got
.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Totally, I was trying to, you know, I was trying to
give them to anybody who wouldtake them to, like you know,
around school or wherever.
Wherever, didn't matter.
Listen to this, it's good.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, those waffle house years were the formative
years.
You know those were a good time.
Yeah, we discovered all thesethings.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Totally yeah.
We listened to a lot of Zappaand a lot of, a lot of just
Zappa.
And great P-Funks snuck its wayin there too.
I know you and I went to theworld Mardi Gras and it was.
It was, it was like a bar.
It was like a bar where theycould like, yeah, they, it was a
.
Well, you and I didn't knowabout it, but you were, I
remember, walking into your roomone day and you had, I think it
(25:10):
was like maybe parliament'sgreatest hits or something and
we listened to it and you'relike, yeah, they're coming to
India and I was like, well, weshould go, let's go, let's look
into it.
So we did, and it was at thisplace called the world Mardi
Gras, which no longer exists.
But but just sort of I tried tolook this up and sort of from
memory also, I want to say ithad several bars that could
close off and it would be like aband playing on this part and a
(25:31):
band playing over here and theywould close the walls.
But but this particular nightthey totally opened it up to one
big thing, because you knowit's parliament, so you know
it's P-Funks or whatever theygot.
They're going to need morepeople, but but, but, but my
memory of it is they didn't stopfor like four hours, like it
was just like a nonstop, longest, longest concert I've ever been
(25:55):
to.
That didn't have a set price,yeah, and just being blown away,
and, and, and have been.
I've seen as many P-Funks showsas I could get to after that,
for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
That's the only one I saw.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Yeah, they're probably a close third.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I don't remember too much what's that?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
They're probably a close third between like fish,
Grateful Dead and then.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's the stuff I mean.
I love the funk music band,that's the stuff I'm into now,
but I like, from what I rememberof that and I don't know if we
were taking any, any substancesor anything you know, or if we
were just spoken to or somethingbut I remember it being at like
some hotel and like likewalking into a lobby.
(26:42):
I don't know what it was, but Iremember like going in there and
thinking this wasn't like aregular concert, it wasn't an
arena, you know, it was justlike real laid back, and I don't
remember there being a lot ofpeople, but I remember them
busting it out, you know.
Yeah, and they just kept goinggoing going, going, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
And we saw, you and I , we saw a ton of fish shows too
, like uh, oh, yeah, when inparticular the Halloween 95,
which I thought I was there withJohnny and I.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
We had seats together , johnny and I.
You guys were there, but Ididn't.
I don't remember being with meat the concert.
No, I thought that was alegendary show.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
I wish there was a video of it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
And like well, we, we did see a ton Like uh, you know
, when they came to Drew Creek,and like, uh, just all the stuff
right.
Like we went to like Dayton andLouisville and like yeah, the
Dayton show I do.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
I'm pretty sure we were at that 94 University
Chicago show.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Oh yeah, that was my birthday actually with Joe.
Oh really, no, yeah, joe wasthere.
I think that was his first show, uh, and then he actually uh,
just no doubt.
And he's been on the bus eversince I just he we were just
texting a couple of days ago.
He's seen 23 shows this year.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
He came out and stayed with me.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I thought that was Joe C from Washington.
Joe, I'm talking.
I'm talking about Joe O or JoeH, rather.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Oh, yeah, yeah, okay, okay, right, I know you were
talking about that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
So yeah, he's seen 23 shows this year and he came out
and stayed with me for dicksand did all four of those.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I, you know, I got out of fish for a long time.
Like I think my last concert Iactually went to was in 99.
We went to um, I was livingwith this guy in Bloomington and
he took me.
We decided we were just goingto go to some fish shows and we
went to that big um airfieldit's festival right In 99.
(28:47):
And um, then we went up toCanada and saw a concert there.
The one at the airfield waspretty good, but the Canada show
was terrible.
At least that's how I remember.
It was probably great, but Iwas like yeah, and I just never
saw them again until I got backinto them last year and I
watched like every concert thisyear, uh, from my couch and
(29:12):
they're pretty good, man, I mean, and going back and revisiting
all that stuff and like, dude, Isaw the barat 93 show that was
legendary performance and didn'teven realize it and like oh,
that's a big shit there.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
You know, I was like you're like oh yeah, after 96,
um, I didn't see fish for a longtime, I.
And then, uh, you know, like Isaid, they're playing super
close at Dix every year, and so,2014, I decided to go check it
out, and then, uh, yeah, and soI've been back every year since
and and it's like you know, it'snot what we saw in 94 and 95.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
But trees.
That doesn't have speed, buthe's still got the music, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Yeah, but it's like the best thing out there still.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Oh yeah, some of the jazz.
In fact wasn't it at Dix thatum split open and know, but just
went way out there and that wasgood stuff and I was like oh
this is bringing me back.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yeah, I, you know man , I love Dix, like just getting
down there on the field, likeright in front of page or
something, or like just sort ofoff to the side.
You know right in the frontcause Trey cruise me out.
He gets all starey and stuffand likes to wait yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
And the people.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yeah, but uh, man, it's just.
It's just such a I don't knowthat's.
You know you played your triparound that.
Come out for Dix next year,that'd be cool, that'd be really
cool.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, I want to see fish one more time, just cause
they're getting old.
They've been I think they're 40years.
You think about the gratefulbed.
They only did it for 30.
Yeah, you know, it's so muchlonger they're going to be doing
it.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
No doubt Did you see any dead in company shows.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
I saw one uh like four years ago with uh Michael M
.
I don't know if you rememberhim.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I do yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
I saw it with him and , um, it was really good.
Actually, I was pleasantlysurprised they played this
terrible.
That was great.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
But you know it's.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
It's like seeing Bob Marley and the way we sort of
Bob Marley.
That's how I feel.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
It's just not that's what I feel that was a big
reason I stopped sort of goingto see a fish and a lot of other
bands too, is because you knowwhen we were seeing them.
you know, here I sound like the,the curmudgeon, the old man but
you know it was you know 30bucks, you know, and we were
going to see you know 3250, andwe're seeing the grateful debt
of Soldier Field, you know.
And uh, and then you know, andthen I'm looking up and I'm like
(31:44):
I'm like, oh, let's go see fish.
And it's like 60 bucks.
I'm not going to pay 60 bucksfor a, for a concert, and then,
and then all of a sudden it'slike all right, maybe I will.
And then I'm, then I'm payingit, I'm all right, and then it's
70, and then it's 80.
And then this year it's like112 if I want to be on the field
, but like dude that's.
I mean, I guess that's the costof of everything they got to
(32:06):
pay their people and you know,as you say that's what I was
saying.
Who knows how much longerthey're going to do it, and
maybe they're just, you know,saving up a little too, yeah,
but but at the same time, whatelse am I going to see that's
going to give me that bang forthe buck?
Like man that, that SaturdayNight Fish Show I saw this year
when they had that five songencore, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
You saw one of the best.
Yeah, I was just like I've gotthat.
Waited like second of the yearbelow eight four.
Msg show was really good, yeah,but yeah, I've got that.
Dick show is one of the bestthis year, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I agree.
Yeah, it's blew my mind.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
But but you know, like the older I get to, it's
it's just there's so much thatgoes into going to a concert.
It's not just buying the ticket, it's like showing up and
having to deal with all thepeople.
You know everyone chained smokein there.
Whatever you know, it's just Ido it outside.
I don't know if I go to anindoor concert, I'll tell you
(33:11):
we're talking about other bandsnow but the.
Did you catch any of the Gooseconcerts out there?
Are you a fan?
Speaker 1 (33:18):
I've heard a little bit of Goose.
I'm not going to say I'm not athing.
I like what I've heard of Goose, but I just I haven't dug into
it like they don't really getlike into them.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
They don't take it out Out there jam.
It's more just like justjamming, you know.
But they're really good man.
They just played red rocks andthey were amazing concerts.
That's another band I've beeninto lately.
I've been doing it for a longtime, that's cool.
I like the Rick guy theguitarist.
He's great.
They bring the funk.
(33:51):
You know what I mean.
They have that like bitch funk,cow funk, whatever you call it.
You know they got that thingfor them, so I really like that
stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
I definitely like what I've heard.
I just haven't taken the time.
I don't know if you somebody'simpressed me recently that I've
seen, like on.
I think he did Bonnaroo andthen he did that thing in
Indiana that I can't all in.
I think it was called All done.
Yeah, but Corey Wong, are youfamiliar with him?
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, yeah, I've heard of him.
I haven't I haven't checked himout much, but I've heard of him
.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah.
He's just really super funkyand his band is so tight, like,
just like a giant horn sectionamazing drummer, great, just
great, great, great Everywhere.
You look.
Great in the band, right?
But he specifically decided Iwant to be known as a crazy
(34:43):
badass guitar player, but I'mnot going to play lead guitar
and so it's just all like, justthe funkiest out there just
rhythm, just crushes rhythm, youknow, Like just super funky,
Like a little Princey you couldtell he's he's listening to some
(35:03):
Minneapolis a little bit, butbut he also has a group called
the fearless flyers, which isJoe Dart, I want to say his name
is from Wolfpeck, the bassplayer from that and the and
this drummer and I can't forgiveme, I can't remember his name
right now, but but he just playsonly a kick, a snare and a
(35:26):
hi-hat, Okay, that's it, that'sit Just but but it is blow your
mind level Neilpert, leveldrumming on on on just a kick a
snare and a hi-hat, like how ishe doing what he's doing?
on on just that.
You know like his.
(35:47):
His crashes are, you know, likejust so.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Right, right.
So, After getting into fishingand and watching like the spring
tour, summer tour I've beenstill impressed with John Fisher
, just the way he does it.
He plays so around the beat,you know, but he's always right
on the one.
He was like the most steady guy, but he's playing so backward
(36:10):
around it Like some of thosejams, he just takes it all the
way around.
Yeah.
He's a monster, I've neverheard anyone play like that.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
You know as Tray said there's a reason they named the
band after him.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah for sure, and like, so you know, by top
drummers Bill Kreuzman.
You know he's maybe not likethe later days.
I feel like the, the era we gotinto a lot of the band and kind
of checked out like some likestill isn't really on it as much
.
I mean, that was moment.
Yeah, it's kind of they'regoing through the motions.
(36:43):
But man back in the 1972, 73,he was just tearing it up, he
was just pumping about throughit, you know back in the 80s.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
You know, I think, what's some of the shows we saw
in 93 and 94, I felt like.
I felt like like 92 might havebeen not quite a seller, but I
felt like 93 and 94, there were.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
There was sort of a bounce back and and there were
yeah, those were good shows Likethe ones we saw, like Jerry's
birthday show.
That was really good.
Oh, the palace.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
That was such a good time.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
That was so good yeah .
Speaker 1 (37:18):
And everybody I remember like we went that whole
tour and and they never playedScarlet Fire.
Like, come on, they're notgoing to play, like when are
they going to play?
And they're like, okay, they'regoing to save it for Jerry's
birthday.
We get all the way up to thenight and it's it's Jerry's turn
to open the second set, becauseBobby just closed out the first
and instead they play victim orthe crime, and then Scarlet.
(37:39):
Fire.
Yeah, like, oh, they're notgoing to do it at all.
And then they, you know, theyunload this just a really good
starlet fire.
I felt like too.
So what are you into these days, like you know, beyond the fish
and the grateful dead?
Like, have you found a andgoose, I mean, have you found
something like maybe a movie ora or a TV show or an album or a
(38:04):
band Like what's somethingthat's really knocked you out
recently?
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Well, my wife and I.
She loves she calls this genresad dad music.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Sad dad, folk music right.
And this guy that lives outthere, well, he lives near
Boulder, so I don't know, thatmight not be really.
It's not too funny.
He lives in your state, youknow, to that general age Like
40 minutes.
Yeah, so, but his name'sGregory Allen Isaacov.
Have you heard of this guy?
Speaker 1 (38:31):
I have not, you know who he is.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
Ah, he's great he's.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
It's not like jam band music.
He doesn't jam out the song,but he's a great songwriter,
he's a great lyricist, he's agreat poet.
That's one of our favorites,but it's emotionally.
I mean, it's sad.
Dad music, you know, very sadbond Sometimes are the best you
know.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Those are all exciting with Jerry's song.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
You know the sad Jerry's song so I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Right, what's the?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
instrumentation what?
Speaker 1 (38:58):
do you mean Like, what kind of Like guitar based
drum?
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Oh yeah, he's got like it's very acoustic, so he's
playing acoustic.
He has like a banjo player withhim.
He got upright bass drummer,sometimes a steel guitar.
That might be the banjo playertoo.
You know a lot of guitarplaying, you know.
Check it out.
He's awesome.
And he's got his own littlefarm out there in Boulder where
(39:23):
he grows medicinal marijuana.
You know he does that part timetoo.
That's cool.
He's on tour right now and toall you guys out there, I'm
talking, gregory Allnacht's songis great.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
All right, awesome.
I'll check him out too.
Always looking for new music tolisten to, for sure.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yeah, like I said, it's very different.
It's not jam band music, butit's just well-written songs.
You know, good cool music, Notthat sad.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Awesome.
You know one thing I didn'ttouch on and I gotta say this we
wore out the.
You're only in it for the money, cb.
Oh yeah, do you remember thatthing like over my place?
Just on repeat.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
What did they for?
Oh, yeah, yeah, I got reallyinto that, but I had all the
albums.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Yeah, yeah, we were just like we would and it had
lumpy gravy.
So those two, I think like thetwo for one, and sadly I didn't
know this at the time, but itwas the remixed ones you know
with like the Chad.
Wackerman drums.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
And I didn't realize there was-.
Did he do all the music onthere with Chad Wackerman?
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Well, yeah.
So what happened?
Frank went back and re-recordedall the bass and drums for
rolling in it for the moneylumpy gravy, ruben and the Jets
I think that was it, but theremight have been one or two more,
and had Chad and Walter Barrow,I want to say, but I can't
remember exactly play overdubbedthe bass and drums and then
(40:53):
they re-released it asremastered on those CD that we
were listening to back in the90s.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah, that's exactly how Chad Wackerman to like that
old style, totally, totally, andhe just wanted an updated sound
.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yeah, he wanted an updated drum sound, an updated
bass sound, because he felt likeit all sounded dated.
So I got it on vinyl and I'mlistening to it.
I'm like what the hell is this?
Because I'm listening to likethe original version you know,
no, I got to check out theoriginal one, that's only what
I've heard too.
Yeah, it's out there.
I think there was a they did arelease that had like several
(41:27):
different versions on it.
But yeah, check out theoriginal version of that of
those two albums and it's like awhole new experience.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Okay, I got one more story for you and it's kind of
crude and let's see if youremember it and we don't have to
include this.
We don't want to, all right,but okay.
So it's 93, dear Creek.
You and I rode together and westopped at the Taco Bell on the
way there.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
And this must have been before I was vegan,
vegetarian, because I got myselfone of those chili cheese,
cheese, orito things or whateverthey were.
You know, uh-huh, we got to the, we got to the Grateful Dead
concert and we parked and I'mfeeling a little.
You know my belly.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Taco Bell will do that.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yeah, so you know what's coming right.
So in our family we refer to ashard as a pestle, because we
did as a pestle.
We made up this word.
Okay, A pestle.
Right, that's proper.
We didn't want ourfive-year-old daughter to know
what a shard was.
It's like a shard, Indeed, it'scalled a pestle.
(42:38):
So yeah, we got to thisGrateful Dead show 93, and I'm I
just pep-ed all over myself.
Do you remember this at all, Doyou?
Speaker 1 (42:48):
by any means, I do vaguely remember that yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
And I'm like, oh dude , I just pep-ed, we're at a
Grateful Dead show.
What are we gonna do, you know?
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Mm-hmm, like I remember.
I sort of remember that momentbecause I feel like that was the
exact moment I was eating likeeight hits of LSD and you were
trying to tell me that and I wasa little distracted on what?
Speaker 2 (43:07):
might be about to happen.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
I don't remember, I don't remember, I don't remember
.
Sadly, what happened was notvery good for me that night, but
you know, really, I don'tremember.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Did you have a tough time that night?
I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Oh man, I had a super tough time and I remember we're
walking back to you.
We're walking back to you.
You had that.
What was it like a Bronco orsomething, or Blazer or
something Blazer Blazer.
Yeah, we're walking back thereand I'm just, I'm just having a
bad time and we get back there.
You're like I got it, man, Igot the tunes for you, you just
hop in the back, I got this.
And you throw on like R-E-M orsomething.
I'm like whoa, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
That was listen to this tape, bush, you'll love it.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah, I'm like no, no , no, no, no.
And so we finally agreed onburning and looting.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
And I was like, yes, yes, this is what I need right
now.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
And all was right with the world at that point.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Yeah, that was my coming down music that out.
Yeah, that song, put it on.
You know that's the one youwant when you're coming down.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Totally.
I do remember you, like youwere trying to explain to me
like, dude, I got to go findlike a port of fire, I got to
find something.
And at the same time I'm like,okay, man, but okay, that's not
what I'm thinking.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Yeah, Well, I bet I have this like old pair, this
pair of shorts from like when Iwas a junior high or something.
They were like Bob Weir shorts,right, cosplay.
So I'm like, yeah, I got theseshorts, shorts, you know.
Luckily I had an extra pair ofshorts.
I looked at the nasty portapotty and cleaned the flip.
(44:38):
It's my commando with these BobWeir shorts.
So we and Bobby, we were on thesame page.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
We had his shorts shorts and I had mine and people
probably thought it was BobWeir shorts.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Yeah, I do sort of remember playing some hacky sack
while you were wearing shortshorts and you're like I can't
kick too high, yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Yeah, man.
So, that was a funny story.
My family loves that story.
They could do some squares.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Let's pass it down for generations.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
That's my petly shart in myself.
That's a great woman's show.
Do not recommend.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
We played a lot of hacky sack, though, like we
would like, for like, hours andhours we would play.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
To this day.
I have an amazing balance whenI'm on my left foot.
You know, I can stay on my leftfoot for hours.
All the hacky sack before.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
Yeah, like Ralph Machio.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
This is before.
They were like good video games.
There were good enough phones.
You know that we carried aroundwith Play hacky sack.
We got stone and play hackysack.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
We did.
We would go to the park andjust crank up the stereo and
play hacky sack for hours nextto the river.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Yeah, junior, remember you had that big van
We'd like all the hot puppies.
Oh man, yeah.
We'd all hop in the van andjust go play hacky sack.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
But you're like we're going to smoke weed every
possible way we can figure outand you got to where you're just
like lighting it on fire andholding it in front of you.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
I'm like burn this van just right here.
That probably worked nowadayswith us opponents.
We were smoking things andthat's when we got the ditch
weed back then, you know.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
That's no doubt.
That's no doubt.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
I remember we'd have, like you, had some old friends
that were like in their 40s andthey had that good next to them.
Oh yeah, I was playing to thatclassic rock band.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
Dennis, I think I was playing to some classic rock
band with some older guys andjust learning how to play.
You know, those guys were funny.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
They, we.
I was in the band with you fora second.
I was going to be the singerand they played the Toad the Wet
Sprocket song.
It was so awful I was like Ican't.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
No, it was all so awful.
I didn't last too long either,but I did make a friend out of
that Dennis guy.
He was a.
He was a pretty good guy andI'd seen him around time quite a
bit.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
But he was the guy that was playing guitar.
Yeah yeah, he was a cool At hishouse.
I liked him too.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Yeah, he was like the sane one, the other guy, I
don't even know, some other guy.
Oh, the guy who was singingbefore you came, he was like 40,
right, but he had a girlfriendwho was like 16.
And yeah, it was the worst.
It was like I got to get out ofhere.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
And then they got rid of him.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
And it wasn't so bad, but it still wasn't great.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
I just came over for all the duties.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Yeah, there was, there was, there was a good
times man.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Well, that's about all the stories.
I mean we could probably goover all kinds of stories.
Totally, that's what I got.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
All right, kurt.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate it.
I've been bugging you, I know,for a while to come and do this
and this is fun man.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Maybe we can do it again sometime.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
Yeah, for sure.
We have a lot to talk about, nodoubt, all right, take care.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
Music.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
I just wanted to add a couple of things to the end of
this episode.
This was my 20th episode, so ifyou've made it through all 20
so far and you're hearing this,thank you so much for listening.
This episode was also recordedon my 50th birthday, so, pardon,
I had had a couple of beers,not typical.
And lastly, I'll be closing outthe show with a song from my
guest Kurt.
He goes as Veganic Vibes onSoundCloud.
(48:42):
I'll be putting a link to hismusic in the show notes.
That hears a song called NewFunk Stroll.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
I'll be putting a link to his music in the show
notes.
I'll be putting a link to hismusic in the show notes.
(52:23):
I'll be putting a link to hismusic in the show notes.
(52:52):
I'll be putting a link to hismusic in the show notes.
(53:22):
I'll be putting a link to hismusic in the show notes.
(53:51):
I'll be putting a link to hismusic in the show notes.
Tales from the Lot, episode 20.
That bus has a lot of wheels,an old friend joins me to talk,
62892 at Deer Creek and a wholebunch of other shows we saw
together.
Here we go.
Hi, welcome to Tales from theLot.
This is Will.
My guest this week is Kurt.
He's from Peru, indiana, and Ikind of know him for like 20, 30
(00:22):
, 43, I don't even know how manyyears, but how you doing, kurt,
I'm doing good Thanks, thanksfor coming on here.
We, kurt and I, saw a ton ofshows together and so we'll go
over a bunch of that, buthonestly I don't know when we
met.
I can't remember when we met,like 90?
.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah, I was like 15 or 16.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah, I don't remember the moment though.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I don't either.
It must have been throughJohnny.
Do you know Johnny?
Maybe through them.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I think it was.
I think it was.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
And then.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So you know, I sort of know your family was a
musical family.
What were you listening togrowing up before I met you as a
kid and through your gradeschool and middle school years,
musically.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I'll give a brief 20 minutes prologue.
My parents were both musicians.
My dad is a songwriter.
They were into Christian music,that kind of stuff, you know,
but the music I got into thefirst tape I ever bought was the
Boogie Boys, which was likethis early 80s rap group.
(01:36):
They had this song called A FlyGirl.
I remember that I was like 11years old and I found this tape
and I thought it was so cool.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So sorry to interrupt you, but I just bought that on
record like two weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
The Boogie Boys.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
With Fly Girl on it and like, really, yeah, and
you're so fly, you're so fly, goahead With yourself.
A fly, a fly, a fly, a fly, afly, a fly.
Yeah, that's hilarious.
I literally just like two weeksago, bought that on my phone.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
That was it.
That was the first set I everhad.
I thought it was so cool.
And then I got in some like RunDMC, you know the Fat Boys.
We did some rap, you know.
And then I remember I boughtthe Poison album.
You know the one that had EveryRoad's has a Sword, right with
the tongue or whatever on it.
Yeah, yeah, in which I don'tknow how I convinced my parents.
(02:24):
Maybe I snuck around and boughtit, you know, or something.
Yeah, they wouldn't have let meout.
There's a being in a religiouscouncil for them.
But then, like when I got intohigh school, I met Todd Gee.
I don't know if you rememberwho I'm talking about, but he's
an artist alternative music.
He loves Susie Mabanchese.
(02:46):
That was like his jam and so heturned me out of them and it's
like the cure and all these likegot fans.
So I got really developed for alittle bit, and that's what I
was into when I met you.
I think I was like yeah, yeah,definitely.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
I remember you were like the first person to tell me
about, like Morrissey and theSmiths.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, Morrissey and the Smiths.
I loved James Addiction andthat was like that was the music
from our era.
You know and I really got intothat stuff.
But I didn't even know who tobreak the dead work until I met
Matt Lee and he had like thist-shirt on.
I was like who's that I'm notinto heavy metal?
(03:29):
You know heavy metal bands likethe great Right, it's like some
heavy metal.
And then, well, we went to yourhouse and you played an album.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Yeah, it was your 72.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Your 72.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
That was the first album I heard.
It was also the first time Ihad ever taken psychedelics.
Oh yeah, so out in your garage,man Remember that I do.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, I had a wannabe Midwestern punk band going on
in there.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Oh yeah, so it was my first psychedelic experience
and also the first time duringthe Grateful Dead, and I
remember you put on truckingafter we got going there, you
know, like an hour into the trip, and I kept on thinking, okay,
it's cool, so country.
(04:25):
It just kept going and it keptgoing.
And I remember looking at youlike dude, is this still
trucking?
Oh yeah, I remember that I gotlike I rewired my brand or
something here in that, truckingall the way through into the
morning.
That was it.
(04:46):
I was on the bus, you know.
Yeah for sure.
So then I don't know how muchlonger it was that summer, but
Grateful Dead came to Deer Creek, to 92.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
And that was my second psychedelic experience.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
It was.
I gave that one a listen and acouple things stood out to me.
The first set as a monsterhelps look fray Tons of other
sort of first set staples, andthen it ends with a new speedway
or something.
Yeah, and new speedway,smokestack lightning to end the
(05:26):
first set Like what's going onthere?
Speaker 2 (05:31):
You know, as a I was like 17, maybe I was 16.
I don't know.
I was pretty young and justlike I had just gotten turned on
to this stuff.
So to me I'd heard Europe 72.
And I think we'd listened to itout of the net.
So I was a little familiar withsome of the new stuff.
But I didn't really.
I just remember thinking likethese these old beatnik hippie
(05:55):
dudes were up there and they'rejust playing the funkiest far
out jazzy music, you know.
And it just blew my mind.
I was trying to remember, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
The China writer, and then so the estimated.
I mean, if you're intoestimated, bob Weir, ha, fests
like that one is particularlygood, and then after that it
just sort of just melts.
It just melts down for a fewand that's a great estimated.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
One thing I remember.
I mean, we were experiencingthis together.
I was standing right next toyou and I remember I'd never
heard some of the songs.
When we started playing, jerrystarted singing to lay me down
and I've never heard this song.
I remember you had such areaction to it Wow, you know,
this is just some slow songs andyou know, looking back now I'm
(06:45):
like realizing how special thatwas.
That was a treat, yeah, and andoddly enough, the Casey Jones
is sort of a treat too, Becauseat that point it had been many a
year, you know, I can'tremember exactly but it's been a
while since.
it's been a while yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, and, and another thing that, if I could
add that the China doll, theguitar solo that Jerry rips in
there, which is like the Jerryslow song at the end of the
second set, which it doesn'tusually do, but but the Tony's
got in there, is just so nasty,like, just like, just the right
amount of distortion, just.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
And it's in such a weird place like the band at
that time.
You know Vince on his own,which you know in 30 years of
perspective.
Looking back, I kind of likethe shows with Vince alone
sometimes better, just becausehe was like trailing with him
playing with Bruce.
It didn't always turn out asgood with Vince, but he could
(07:46):
really shine on his own and, man, the band was like the wheels
were falling off, but they'vebeen falling off a long time,
you know, and that that bus hada lot of wheels you know it's
still had that further sign onthe front of it.
(08:07):
Yeah, so it wasn't as good asthey've been, like that era not
just not that show, but justthat era.
But there were still a fewconcerts.
We saw that they were the realgrateful guys there that kicked
it up.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, I think the following year the Buckeye Lake
show, the one where you were,the one where Sting opened,
right.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah, I was there for that.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, I think that one in particular, which you can
see the whole show on YouTubenow.
Yeah, it's just amazing, like,yeah, we did see some great
shows, actually, I pulled it up.
So, like, did you go toRichfield I think Richfield 93
in the spring?
You might have been and youwere still in school at that
time.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I don't think I went to that one, but I was at that
legendary 94 Richfield show.
The one with the Stella Blue andthe Love Line.
I just listened to that theother day and it was.
I didn't.
I hadn't listened to it in along time and I was shocked at
how good that show was.
They're all in sync.
Jerry's voice sounds great andhe's playing these licks.
(09:12):
That it's like okay.
Yeah, I know he's got to die.
Be mean to him All the problemswith our thrace, but man, he
could still rip it up, yeah.
Yeah for certain, I mean I mean, look at this.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
We probably saw 15, 12, 15 shows together Grateful
Dead shows, silverfield 94, deerCreek 94 and 93.
You know what, though, Iremember, right before Deer
Creek 93, we brought theGrateful Dead movie from
Blockbuster or somewhere and toyour house to watch with your
(09:50):
dad, to turn him into a deadhead.
Yeah, we do.
Yeah, we.
Right there in your living roomwe watched the Grateful Dead
movie and that's well.
That's what got your dad sortof on board with going.
He's like they're not bad.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
He went to.
Was it 93?
He went to 94.
He went to one of those boxeswith me.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Right.
So like I have this, this vividmemory of you and I rolling up
to his office, because he wassort of the boss of what he was
doing, and we go up there andhe's on the phone and he's like
yeah, I gotta go, yeah, I gottago.
Listen, I'm going to a GratefulDead concert.
I gotta go and you guys take itoff to that.
And I think we met yousomewhere along the way Because
(10:30):
I was like you know, I was toocool for that.
I was like I like your dad andall.
But I think I'm going to gohang out with these people who
are taking the ass.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I kind of remember a little bit.
You know my dad.
Like I said, he's intoChristian music but he was a
good dad.
He still was a good dad.
He's still around and he alwaysshowed up.
He was there, he'd show up,he'd go to all the stuff and I
think, you know, I'm like 17 or18, and he wanted to see what I
(10:59):
was into.
And it's weird because that'stheir era.
You know the great thing aboutthat he never got into that
stuff.
He was into other music, nevergot into the hippie shit, you
know, but I think it was just.
He was a fish out of water man,you know, doing cartwheels and
kicking their balls off.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Didn't he take your mother back the next year, or
something like that?
Like no, no, no, no, okay, allright.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I still, I was a good dad.
I was a good dad.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
For sure.
Have you been to Taylor Swiftor something?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I'd be like taking my girl yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
So you went.
You went West also.
Right, you saw a bunch of showsthat I didn't see out on the
West Coast.
Did you go with Matt to those,or?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
who was.
I went with the late greatChris.
Oh, I'll say some Chris Long.
He's not with us anymore, whichis sad because he was a great
guy.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
He was.
He was a truly great guy Likehe was like just a good soul.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, he was a deep dude and he called me up one day
and he's like dude, we're goingto West Coast tour.
I went with him, and also thelate great Tully.
Remember him.
He's not with us anymore either.
Jeff Jeffrey Sullivan.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Oh right.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
He went with us, but he was.
He was like full work at thatpoint and I didn't really hang
out much.
He somehow make it back to thecar after the concert, you know.
Go on to the next one Difficultyeah.
We went out there, all we careabout out there, and I mean I
(12:55):
got some good stories about thattrip.
That was my first like realtrip out West, you know without
my parents or something, and itwas.
It was magical, like rolling upover Washington state and like
over the mountains and thesunrise.
It was truly magical.
And then getting into Seattle,you know Seattle is known for it
(13:18):
to be always rainy and this islate May and it's the most
gorgeous day.
It's like 78 degrees, sun isshining.
You know all the heads are outpartying and you could hear the
music outside the venueperfectly, just like being in
the lawn.
So we went into the first night.
We got there late and I sawlike half the first set and the
(13:41):
site was finished In Seattle.
I don't know the name of it,Just whatever War Memorial maybe
, I don't know.
Okay, sorry to interrupt you.
You're looking up this isspring two or 95.
So we went to the first concertand it was.
It was okay.
The second night we didn't getin but we sat outside and we're
(14:03):
just sitting on a blankethanging out and they played.
They played a Starlet Fire.
I don't know if you've heardthis one, but the fire in the
mountain.
Jerry got this crazy effect,this like octave.
We was like you know, so weI've never heard him play
anything like that and it was.
(14:24):
You can tell he's having somuch fun.
He's like trying out new soundand like really getting into it
and that was a treat.
That was really cool.
The rest of the shows weren'tthat great.
Portland, like I remember him,he played um, they played Shake
Down and Jerry didn't even.
He wouldn't even play the solo,it was just the rest of the
band you know just playingrhythm.
(14:46):
He's just kind of like, oh,doing his thing, you know, um,
so those weren't that great, butit was an awesome experience.
It was really cool seeing allthat part of it but we, we
decided Chris and his wife atthe time, we were with his
sister too Um, all of us decidedwe're going to camp in out in
the mountains in Oregon.
We're just going to take thiswater trail, you know, take him
(15:10):
up there and camp Right.
That sounds great, that soundscool, yeah.
And so you were actually there.
And then there's thesetornadoes, man of mosquitoes,
like rural giant columns, likeswirling, and they descended
upon us and we're smokingcigarettes, we're smoking fiber
too, with everything that'sspoken, maybe we'll get them
(15:31):
stoned or something.
Believe us a lot.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
They'll lose their way and go away.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
No, it didn't happen and so finally we gave up.
We're like we can't, we'regoing to get killed here by
these mosquitoes, you know.
Yeah, so we left and we'recoming down the mountain and I'm
following them and we hit theroad and we hit this.
I hit this pot hole orsomething and I got clapped.
But just, we made it like Idrove.
(15:57):
It was real close to the mainroad.
I kind of drove to the road andjust pulled over.
I'm like what am I going to do?
You know, I don't know, this is1995.
No, I don't know, you know, andthis guy, this these hippies
like pulled over, the guy likegot out, helped me fix the tire
(16:20):
and was just like the kindestguy, you like gave me some buds,
you know, and he's like you mangot you, you know, my guardian
angel.
So just that kind of trip, justa lot of positive vibes.
It was really cool.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, I remember when you came back from that, yeah,
you came back from that talkingabout the the Jerry Whale call.
You're like dude, he's doingthese crazy yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
It's from that fire in the mountain.
It just blew my mind and I'venever heard him do something
like that.
And you know we're talkingabout the later day grateful bed
I.
I just loved the direction theywere going.
They came up, came out with allthis new material and some of
the songs were easy answered.
I like eternity.
I think the lyrics are reallydumb but the song itself was
(17:10):
cool, like the jam they would do.
I was listening to that richfield 94 show and not a 10 of
these are good, yeah, and it'slike a good blue song, but they
would take it like the nextlevel, you know, and like lazy
river road so many roads, greatsong.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Yeah, so many roads.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Great song Days between yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
So they had some really good material they were
working on.
Yeah, the time was up, you know, but I would have loved it.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Even Liberty's okay.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, I was groomed with that the other day.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
It's okay when you don't hear it every night.
I felt like there's a minutethere where we were hearing it,
you know, every other night orso.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I thought the law.
Everyone just started growingin the air, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Time to go.
There's a cool song, you knowwe were there for the first one
of those, by the way.
Was that the first game 93.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Oh, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yeah, jeremy and I drove over there and then I
think you did, you fly orsomething.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
You came the second day.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
I think I came to.
I know I went to Rosefont withMatt B.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
You were at Richfield 93 and I'm pretty sure you flew
and we went and picked you upat the airport.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Really.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Because we had.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
we got snowed out the first night and they got
canceled and there was a bigparty and we all just partied in
this hotel and then you hadsomething.
Are you thinking?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
I don't know if it's because I flew into Memphis and
this was definitely Richfieldbecause there was the Terrapin
station and that super weird,carina.
Yeah, which I like that songnow.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
It's a kung fu morning.
The sun is shining on me.
I'm just trying to get my spacetogether, can't you see?
I need some kung fu coffee.
Ugh, I had this 8 o'clockmeeting at the office and I'm
(19:18):
not feeling it here.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
babe, try some kung fu coffee.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Kung fu coffee.
Damn, that coffee kicked my ass.
There's five more bands at thefestival today and I didn't
sleep at all last night.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Here, try some kung fu coffee.
Motherf*****, that coffeekicked my ass.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Our coffee beans are growing in our secret laboratory
deep underground in Canada, therecipe handed down from my
uncle Tom.
Our facility is protected byseveral hundred top-notch ninjas
who also participate ingrinding the beans with their
bare hands.
And well, I suppose that'swhere we got our name.
(20:10):
It's a kung fu morning.
The sun is shining on me.
I'm just trying to get my spacetogether, Can't you see?
I need some kung fu coffee.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Kung fu coffee.
It kicks your ass.
Okay, so you're a bit of amusician yourself too, right?
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, I mean.
Yeah, I mean I've been playingguitar for like 30 years but I'm
not very good at it.
I know enough to like play thesongs I like and I've been
working on scales and trying tobe able to do some lead.
Mostly I just play chords andstuff.
But what I like to do is likeMIDI music.
(21:03):
You know, I like to make like a.
It's not really reggae, butit's in that style, like that's
the roots, that's my roots, thereggae dub stuff, and so I kind
of take that approach to mymusic.
I still work with Johnny andSpencer.
We do a lot of music togetherand they're still doing stuff
(21:23):
too.
We all use recent software,which it's great because I can
do.
I can plug in my guitar andchord analog and also play MIDI
with my keyboard.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Speaking of our local hots back in the day, there was
one in particular that I didthe Waffle House.
I don't even, I can't evenexplain why groups of teenagers
would hang out there in thenumber of like 10 to 12 to 13 of
us.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Sometimes it's a lost .
People do that anymore, youknow, Maybe some people do, but
not as much.
Maybe we grew up there.
We spent hours.
We did.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
We would just drink coffee and bullshit until the
sun came up sometimes.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, we would just go out by one pot of coffee.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Pour a way to the sun .
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Right, we'd go out to your car and smoke dudes and
look into the bed all night.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah, oh, man, just okay.
So the last episode of this Idid I did with a guy who was at
the Warlock show and so I waslistening to that and brushing
up and I was just like listeningto that just took me back to a
moment sitting with you at thecar, like playing a kazoo or
something, listening to thisWarlock show.
(22:48):
Just like I knew this thing.
Note from, note from thathappening.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah, we wore those tapes out.
You would send off your Maxl XLtwos to like a random.
Just people use them how itwent like a concert or something
and they sent you back to thesix generation tape.
Some of them are good, no, butwe had, we loved it.
They were treasured possessions.
When I think Peru, I had allthese old cassettes and we just
(23:19):
we didn't have the room for Igot rid of them.
But I was just the whole timelike man.
I poured so much energy intothe living creatures at this
point, you know, but it's sodeep for me.
We've got everything bettersounding on the internet and
fall free.
Archive.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
It's true.
Yeah, you can go to theinternet archive and really just
pull up anything you need, andit's all there Did you keep your
tapes.
You still got them.
No, I let them go a long ago.
I do have somewhere in theneighborhood of thousands of
final records still.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
There you go, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
But no, I got rid of the tapes, just didn't need them
.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Yeah, I mean there's.
Yeah, I don't even have acassette player, it was just,
these were the treasuredpossessions.
We worked so hard to collectthem and I remember going into
your little bedroom and we'dhave, you know, just have it
running, constantly makingcopies of the tapes that you got
.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Totally, I was trying to, you know, I was trying to
give them to anybody who wouldtake them to, like you know,
around school or wherever.
Wherever, didn't matter.
Listen to this, it's good.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, those waffle house years were the formative
years.
You know those were a good time.
Yeah, we discovered all thesethings.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Totally yeah.
We listened to a lot of Zappaand a lot of, a lot of just
Zappa.
And great P-Funks snuck its wayin there too.
I know you and I went to theworld Mardi Gras and it was.
It was, it was like a bar.
It was like a bar where theycould like, yeah, they, it was a
.
Well, you and I didn't knowabout it, but you were, I
remember, walking into your roomone day and you had, I think it
(25:10):
was like maybe parliament'sgreatest hits or something and
we listened to it and you'relike, yeah, they're coming to
India and I was like, well, weshould go, let's go, let's look
into it.
So we did, and it was at thisplace called the world Mardi
Gras, which no longer exists.
But but just sort of I tried tolook this up and sort of from
memory also, I want to say ithad several bars that could
close off and it would be like aband playing on this part and a
(25:31):
band playing over here and theywould close the walls.
But but this particular nightthey totally opened it up to one
big thing, because you knowit's parliament, so you know
it's P-Funks or whatever theygot.
They're going to need morepeople, but but, but, but my
memory of it is they didn't stopfor like four hours, like it
was just like a nonstop, longest, longest concert I've ever been
(25:55):
to.
That didn't have a set price,yeah, and just being blown away,
and, and, and have been.
I've seen as many P-Funks showsas I could get to after that,
for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
That's the only one I saw.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Yeah, they're probably a close third.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I don't remember too much what's that?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
They're probably a close third between like fish,
Grateful Dead and then.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's the stuff I mean.
I love the funk music band,that's the stuff I'm into now,
but I like, from what I rememberof that and I don't know if we
were taking any, any substancesor anything you know, or if we
were just spoken to or somethingbut I remember it being at like
some hotel and like likewalking into a lobby.
(26:42):
I don't know what it was, but Iremember like going in there and
thinking this wasn't like aregular concert, it wasn't an
arena, you know, it was justlike real laid back, and I don't
remember there being a lot ofpeople, but I remember them
busting it out, you know.
Yeah, and they just kept goinggoing going, going, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
And we saw, you and I , we saw a ton of fish shows too
, like uh, oh, yeah, when inparticular the Halloween 95,
which I thought I was there withJohnny and I.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
We had seats together , johnny and I.
You guys were there, but Ididn't.
I don't remember being with meat the concert.
No, I thought that was alegendary show.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
I wish there was a video of it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
And like well, we, we did see a ton Like uh, you know
, when they came to Drew Creek,and like, uh, just all the stuff
right.
Like we went to like Dayton andLouisville and like yeah, the
Dayton show I do.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
I'm pretty sure we were at that 94 University
Chicago show.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Oh yeah, that was my birthday actually with Joe.
Oh really, no, yeah, joe wasthere.
I think that was his first show, uh, and then he actually uh,
just no doubt.
And he's been on the bus eversince I just he we were just
texting a couple of days ago.
He's seen 23 shows this year.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
He came out and stayed with me.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I thought that was Joe C from Washington.
Joe, I'm talking.
I'm talking about Joe O or JoeH, rather.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Oh, yeah, yeah, okay, okay, right, I know you were
talking about that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
So yeah, he's seen 23 shows this year and he came out
and stayed with me for dicksand did all four of those.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I, you know, I got out of fish for a long time.
Like I think my last concert Iactually went to was in 99.
We went to um, I was livingwith this guy in Bloomington and
he took me.
We decided we were just goingto go to some fish shows and we
went to that big um airfieldit's festival right In 99.
(28:47):
And um, then we went up toCanada and saw a concert there.
The one at the airfield waspretty good, but the Canada show
was terrible.
At least that's how I remember.
It was probably great, but Iwas like yeah, and I just never
saw them again until I got backinto them last year and I
watched like every concert thisyear, uh, from my couch and
(29:12):
they're pretty good, man, I mean, and going back and revisiting
all that stuff and like, dude, Isaw the barat 93 show that was
legendary performance and didn'teven realize it and like oh,
that's a big shit there.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
You know, I was like you're like oh yeah, after 96,
um, I didn't see fish for a longtime, I.
And then, uh, you know, like Isaid, they're playing super
close at Dix every year, and so,2014, I decided to go check it
out, and then, uh, yeah, and soI've been back every year since
and and it's like you know, it'snot what we saw in 94 and 95.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
But trees.
That doesn't have speed, buthe's still got the music, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Yeah, but it's like the best thing out there still.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Oh yeah, some of the jazz.
In fact wasn't it at Dix thatum split open and know, but just
went way out there and that wasgood stuff and I was like oh
this is bringing me back.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yeah, I, you know man , I love Dix, like just getting
down there on the field, likeright in front of page or
something, or like just sort ofoff to the side.
You know right in the frontcause Trey cruise me out.
He gets all starey and stuffand likes to wait yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
And the people.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yeah, but uh, man, it's just.
It's just such a I don't knowthat's.
You know you played your triparound that.
Come out for Dix next year,that'd be cool, that'd be really
cool.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, I want to see fish one more time, just cause
they're getting old.
They've been I think they're 40years.
You think about the gratefulbed.
They only did it for 30.
Yeah, you know, it's so muchlonger they're going to be doing
it.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
No doubt Did you see any dead in company shows.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
I saw one uh like four years ago with uh Michael M
.
I don't know if you rememberhim.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I do yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
I saw it with him and , um, it was really good.
Actually, I was pleasantlysurprised they played this
terrible.
That was great.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
But you know it's.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
It's like seeing Bob Marley and the way we sort of
Bob Marley.
That's how I feel.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
It's just not that's what I feel that was a big
reason I stopped sort of goingto see a fish and a lot of other
bands too, is because you knowwhen we were seeing them.
you know, here I sound like the,the curmudgeon, the old man but
you know it was you know 30bucks, you know, and we were
going to see you know 3250, andwe're seeing the grateful debt
of Soldier Field, you know.
And uh, and then you know, andthen I'm looking up and I'm like
(31:44):
I'm like, oh, let's go see fish.
And it's like 60 bucks.
I'm not going to pay 60 bucksfor a, for a concert, and then,
and then all of a sudden it'slike all right, maybe I will.
And then I'm, then I'm payingit, I'm all right, and then it's
70, and then it's 80.
And then this year it's like112 if I want to be on the field
, but like dude that's.
I mean, I guess that's the costof of everything they got to
(32:06):
pay their people and you know,as you say that's what I was
saying.
Who knows how much longerthey're going to do it, and
maybe they're just, you know,saving up a little too, yeah,
but but at the same time, whatelse am I going to see that's
going to give me that bang forthe buck?
Like man that, that SaturdayNight Fish Show I saw this year
when they had that five songencore, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
You saw one of the best.
Yeah, I was just like I've gotthat.
Waited like second of the yearbelow eight four.
Msg show was really good, yeah,but yeah, I've got that.
Dick show is one of the bestthis year, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I agree.
Yeah, it's blew my mind.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
But but you know, like the older I get to, it's
it's just there's so much thatgoes into going to a concert.
It's not just buying the ticket, it's like showing up and
having to deal with all thepeople.
You know everyone chained smokein there.
Whatever you know, it's just Ido it outside.
I don't know if I go to anindoor concert, I'll tell you
(33:11):
we're talking about other bandsnow but the.
Did you catch any of the Gooseconcerts out there?
Are you a fan?
Speaker 1 (33:18):
I've heard a little bit of Goose.
I'm not going to say I'm not athing.
I like what I've heard of Goose, but I just I haven't dug into
it like they don't really getlike into them.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
They don't take it out Out there jam.
It's more just like justjamming, you know.
But they're really good man.
They just played red rocks andthey were amazing concerts.
That's another band I've beeninto lately.
I've been doing it for a longtime, that's cool.
I like the Rick guy theguitarist.
He's great.
They bring the funk.
(33:51):
You know what I mean.
They have that like bitch funk,cow funk, whatever you call it.
You know they got that thingfor them, so I really like that
stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
I definitely like what I've heard.
I just haven't taken the time.
I don't know if you somebody'simpressed me recently that I've
seen, like on.
I think he did Bonnaroo andthen he did that thing in
Indiana that I can't all in.
I think it was called All done.
Yeah, but Corey Wong, are youfamiliar with him?
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, yeah, I've heard of him.
I haven't I haven't checked himout much, but I've heard of him
.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah.
He's just really super funkyand his band is so tight, like,
just like a giant horn sectionamazing drummer, great, just
great, great, great Everywhere.
You look.
Great in the band, right?
But he specifically decided Iwant to be known as a crazy
(34:43):
badass guitar player, but I'mnot going to play lead guitar
and so it's just all like, justthe funkiest out there just
rhythm, just crushes rhythm, youknow, Like just super funky,
Like a little Princey you couldtell he's he's listening to some
(35:03):
Minneapolis a little bit, butbut he also has a group called
the fearless flyers, which isJoe Dart, I want to say his name
is from Wolfpeck, the bassplayer from that and the and
this drummer and I can't forgiveme, I can't remember his name
right now, but but he just playsonly a kick, a snare and a
(35:26):
hi-hat, Okay, that's it, that'sit Just but but it is blow your
mind level Neilpert, leveldrumming on on on just a kick a
snare and a hi-hat, like how ishe doing what he's doing?
on on just that.
You know like his.
(35:47):
His crashes are, you know, likejust so.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Right, right.
So, After getting into fishingand and watching like the spring
tour, summer tour I've beenstill impressed with John Fisher
, just the way he does it.
He plays so around the beat,you know, but he's always right
on the one.
He was like the most steady guy, but he's playing so backward
(36:10):
around it Like some of thosejams, he just takes it all the
way around.
Yeah.
He's a monster, I've neverheard anyone play like that.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
You know as Tray said there's a reason they named the
band after him.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah for sure, and like, so you know, by top
drummers Bill Kreuzman.
You know he's maybe not likethe later days.
I feel like the, the era we gotinto a lot of the band and kind
of checked out like some likestill isn't really on it as much
.
I mean, that was moment.
Yeah, it's kind of they'regoing through the motions.
(36:43):
But man back in the 1972, 73,he was just tearing it up, he
was just pumping about throughit, you know back in the 80s.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
You know, I think, what's some of the shows we saw
in 93 and 94, I felt like.
I felt like like 92 might havebeen not quite a seller, but I
felt like 93 and 94, there were.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
There was sort of a bounce back and and there were
yeah, those were good shows Likethe ones we saw, like Jerry's
birthday show.
That was really good.
Oh, the palace.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
That was such a good time.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
That was so good yeah .
Speaker 1 (37:18):
And everybody I remember like we went that whole
tour and and they never playedScarlet Fire.
Like, come on, they're notgoing to play, like when are
they going to play?
And they're like, okay, they'regoing to save it for Jerry's
birthday.
We get all the way up to thenight and it's it's Jerry's turn
to open the second set, becauseBobby just closed out the first
and instead they play victim orthe crime, and then Scarlet.
(37:39):
Fire.
Yeah, like, oh, they're notgoing to do it at all.
And then they, you know, theyunload this just a really good
starlet fire.
I felt like too.
So what are you into these days, like you know, beyond the fish
and the grateful dead?
Like, have you found a andgoose, I mean, have you found
something like maybe a movie ora or a TV show or an album or a
(38:04):
band Like what's somethingthat's really knocked you out
recently?
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Well, my wife and I.
She loves she calls this genresad dad music.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Sad dad, folk music right.
And this guy that lives outthere, well, he lives near
Boulder, so I don't know, thatmight not be really.
It's not too funny.
He lives in your state, youknow, to that general age Like
40 minutes.
Yeah, so, but his name'sGregory Allen Isaacov.
Have you heard of this guy?
Speaker 1 (38:31):
I have not, you know who he is.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
Ah, he's great he's.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
It's not like jam band music.
He doesn't jam out the song,but he's a great songwriter,
he's a great lyricist, he's agreat poet.
That's one of our favorites,but it's emotionally.
I mean, it's sad.
Dad music, you know, very sadbond Sometimes are the best you
know.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Those are all exciting with Jerry's song.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
You know the sad Jerry's song so I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Right, what's the?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
instrumentation what?
Speaker 1 (38:58):
do you mean Like, what kind of Like guitar based
drum?
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Oh yeah, he's got like it's very acoustic, so he's
playing acoustic.
He has like a banjo player withhim.
He got upright bass drummer,sometimes a steel guitar.
That might be the banjo playertoo.
You know a lot of guitarplaying, you know.
Check it out.
He's awesome.
And he's got his own littlefarm out there in Boulder where
(39:23):
he grows medicinal marijuana.
You know he does that part timetoo.
That's cool.
He's on tour right now and toall you guys out there, I'm
talking, gregory Allnacht's songis great.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
All right, awesome.
I'll check him out too.
Always looking for new music tolisten to, for sure.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yeah, like I said, it's very different.
It's not jam band music, butit's just well-written songs.
You know, good cool music, Notthat sad.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Awesome.
You know one thing I didn'ttouch on and I gotta say this we
wore out the.
You're only in it for the money, cb.
Oh yeah, do you remember thatthing like over my place?
Just on repeat.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
What did they for?
Oh, yeah, yeah, I got reallyinto that, but I had all the
albums.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Yeah, yeah, we were just like we would and it had
lumpy gravy.
So those two, I think like thetwo for one, and sadly I didn't
know this at the time, but itwas the remixed ones you know
with like the Chad.
Wackerman drums.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
And I didn't realize there was-.
Did he do all the music onthere with Chad Wackerman?
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Well, yeah.
So what happened?
Frank went back and re-recordedall the bass and drums for
rolling in it for the moneylumpy gravy, ruben and the Jets
I think that was it, but theremight have been one or two more,
and had Chad and Walter Barrow,I want to say, but I can't
remember exactly play overdubbedthe bass and drums and then
(40:53):
they re-released it asremastered on those CD that we
were listening to back in the90s.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah, that's exactly how Chad Wackerman to like that
old style, totally, totally, andhe just wanted an updated sound
.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yeah, he wanted an updated drum sound, an updated
bass sound, because he felt likeit all sounded dated.
So I got it on vinyl and I'mlistening to it.
I'm like what the hell is this?
Because I'm listening to likethe original version you know,
no, I got to check out theoriginal one, that's only what
I've heard too.
Yeah, it's out there.
I think there was a they did arelease that had like several
(41:27):
different versions on it.
But yeah, check out theoriginal version of that of
those two albums and it's like awhole new experience.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Okay, I got one more story for you and it's kind of
crude and let's see if youremember it and we don't have to
include this.
We don't want to, all right,but okay.
So it's 93, dear Creek.
You and I rode together and westopped at the Taco Bell on the
way there.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
And this must have been before I was vegan,
vegetarian, because I got myselfone of those chili cheese,
cheese, orito things or whateverthey were.
You know, uh-huh, we got to the, we got to the Grateful Dead
concert and we parked and I'mfeeling a little.
You know my belly.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Taco Bell will do that.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yeah, so you know what's coming right.
So in our family we refer to ashard as a pestle, because we
did as a pestle.
We made up this word.
Okay, A pestle.
Right, that's proper.
We didn't want ourfive-year-old daughter to know
what a shard was.
It's like a shard, Indeed, it'scalled a pestle.
(42:38):
So yeah, we got to thisGrateful Dead show 93, and I'm I
just pep-ed all over myself.
Do you remember this at all, Doyou?
Speaker 1 (42:48):
by any means, I do vaguely remember that yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
And I'm like, oh dude , I just pep-ed, we're at a
Grateful Dead show.
What are we gonna do, you know?
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Mm-hmm, like I remember.
I sort of remember that momentbecause I feel like that was the
exact moment I was eating likeeight hits of LSD and you were
trying to tell me that and I wasa little distracted on what?
Speaker 2 (43:07):
might be about to happen.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
I don't remember, I don't remember, I don't remember
.
Sadly, what happened was notvery good for me that night, but
you know, really, I don'tremember.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Did you have a tough time that night?
I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Oh man, I had a super tough time and I remember we're
walking back to you.
We're walking back to you.
You had that.
What was it like a Bronco orsomething, or Blazer or
something Blazer Blazer.
Yeah, we're walking back thereand I'm just, I'm just having a
bad time and we get back there.
You're like I got it, man, Igot the tunes for you, you just
hop in the back, I got this.
And you throw on like R-E-M orsomething.
I'm like whoa, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
That was listen to this tape, bush, you'll love it.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah, I'm like no, no , no, no, no.
And so we finally agreed onburning and looting.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
And I was like, yes, yes, this is what I need right
now.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
And all was right with the world at that point.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Yeah, that was my coming down music that out.
Yeah, that song, put it on.
You know that's the one youwant when you're coming down.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Totally.
I do remember you, like youwere trying to explain to me
like, dude, I got to go findlike a port of fire, I got to
find something.
And at the same time I'm like,okay, man, but okay, that's not
what I'm thinking.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Yeah, Well, I bet I have this like old pair, this
pair of shorts from like when Iwas a junior high or something.
They were like Bob Weir shorts,right, cosplay.
So I'm like, yeah, I got theseshorts, shorts, you know.
Luckily I had an extra pair ofshorts.
I looked at the nasty portapotty and cleaned the flip.
(44:38):
It's my commando with these BobWeir shorts.
So we and Bobby, we were on thesame page.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
We had his shorts shorts and I had mine and people
probably thought it was BobWeir shorts.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Yeah, I do sort of remember playing some hacky sack
while you were wearing shortshorts and you're like I can't
kick too high, yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Yeah, man.
So, that was a funny story.
My family loves that story.
They could do some squares.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Let's pass it down for generations.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
That's my petly shart in myself.
That's a great woman's show.
Do not recommend.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
We played a lot of hacky sack, though, like we
would like, for like, hours andhours we would play.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
To this day.
I have an amazing balance whenI'm on my left foot.
You know, I can stay on my leftfoot for hours.
All the hacky sack before.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
Yeah, like Ralph Machio.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
This is before.
They were like good video games.
There were good enough phones.
You know that we carried aroundwith Play hacky sack.
We got stone and play hackysack.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
We did.
We would go to the park andjust crank up the stereo and
play hacky sack for hours nextto the river.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Yeah, junior, remember you had that big van
We'd like all the hot puppies.
Oh man, yeah.
We'd all hop in the van andjust go play hacky sack.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
But you're like we're going to smoke weed every
possible way we can figure outand you got to where you're just
like lighting it on fire andholding it in front of you.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
I'm like burn this van just right here.
That probably worked nowadayswith us opponents.
We were smoking things andthat's when we got the ditch
weed back then, you know.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
That's no doubt.
That's no doubt.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
I remember we'd have, like you, had some old friends
that were like in their 40s andthey had that good next to them.
Oh yeah, I was playing to thatclassic rock band.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
Dennis, I think I was playing to some classic rock
band with some older guys andjust learning how to play.
You know, those guys were funny.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
They, we.
I was in the band with you fora second.
I was going to be the singerand they played the Toad the Wet
Sprocket song.
It was so awful I was like Ican't.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
No, it was all so awful.
I didn't last too long either,but I did make a friend out of
that Dennis guy.
He was a.
He was a pretty good guy andI'd seen him around time quite a
bit.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
But he was the guy that was playing guitar.
Yeah yeah, he was a cool At hishouse.
I liked him too.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Yeah, he was like the sane one, the other guy, I
don't even know, some other guy.
Oh, the guy who was singingbefore you came, he was like 40,
right, but he had a girlfriendwho was like 16.
And yeah, it was the worst.
It was like I got to get out ofhere.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
And then they got rid of him.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
And it wasn't so bad, but it still wasn't great.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
I just came over for all the duties.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Yeah, there was, there was, there was a good
times man.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Well, that's about all the stories.
I mean we could probably goover all kinds of stories.
Totally, that's what I got.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
All right, kurt.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate it.
I've been bugging you, I know,for a while to come and do this
and this is fun man.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Maybe we can do it again sometime.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
Yeah, for sure.
We have a lot to talk about, nodoubt, all right, take care.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
Music.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
I just wanted to add a couple of things to the end of
this episode.
This was my 20th episode, so ifyou've made it through all 20
so far and you're hearing this,thank you so much for listening.
This episode was also recordedon my 50th birthday, so, pardon,
I had had a couple of beers,not typical.
And lastly, I'll be closing outthe show with a song from my
guest Kurt.
He goes as Veganic Vibes onSoundCloud.
(48:42):
I'll be putting a link to hismusic in the show notes.
That hears a song called NewFunk Stroll.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
I'll be putting a link to his music in the show
notes.
I'll be putting a link to hismusic in the show notes.
(52:23):
I'll be putting a link to hismusic in the show notes.
(52:52):
I'll be putting a link to hismusic in the show notes.
(53:22):
I'll be putting a link to hismusic in the show notes.
(53:51):
I'll be putting a link to hismusic in the show notes.
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