April 25, 2024 • 39 mins
Venture back in time with Boston's very own Paul Cirincione as we unravel the enthralling narrative of a life steeped in the melodies of the Grateful Dead and the dynamic world of live music recording. Our foray begins with Paul's initiation into the taping culture at a Dead show in '78, with nothing but borrowed equipment from an unlikely source. His chronicles from the golden era take us through the small, smoky venues and the blossoming vending scene, contrasting the cumbersome recording gear of yesteryear with the sleek technology we see today.
Join us as Paul reminisces about seeing the Grateful Dead, sharing tales that intertwine his personal milestones with about 100 concerts over a decade. Whether it's a snow-laden odyssey to the Stanley Theater or a serendipitous ocean swim, Paul's vivid storytelling captures the essence of Deadhead culture. We'll get an insider's look at iconic venues, the spontaneous camaraderie among fans, and the remarkable drive that fueled the journey despite the demands of adulthood and a full-time job.
But the musical expedition doesn't end with the Grateful Dead. Paul's diverse taste leads us through the punk scene's prime years, highlighting connections with legendary figures like Joey Ramone and intricate stories that bring us face-to-face with the likes of Al Kooper during a pivotal moment in music history. It's an intimate narrative that paints a picture of the raw humanity of these icons, etching Paul's experiences into the broader canvas of live music's transformative power. Let's set the stage for a symphony with Paul Cirincione as our conductor.
This episode is sponsored by ShakedownTshirts.com with unique lot-style T-shirts and gifts for Grateful Dead, Phish, Zappa, Panic, and more. All US orders over $35 Ship Free. Use code "Lot20" for 20% off any order.
Tales From The Lot
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Tales from the Lot, episode 25,.
I ducked into a barn door.
My guest is Paul Cirincionefrom Boston.
He's here to talk, taping inthe 70s, 80s, 90s, seeing a
whole bunch of shows and goodtimes.
Here we go.
Hi, welcome to Tales from theLot.
This is Will.
My guest this time is PaulCirincione.
He's coming to us from Boston.
(00:21):
I think I didn't butcher it,but how are you doing, paul?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Very good.
No, that was as close as couldbe expected.
For a first try at least right,Ciancioni, if you want to
pronounce it in Italian.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yeah, welcome.
So you're in Boston now.
Is that where you're fromoriginally?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
No, I'm originally from the New Haven, Connecticut
area.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Okay, so up in New Haven.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Connecticut specifically.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
That's cool.
What were you into musically?
What were you listening togrowing up?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Oh boy.
Well, I am the baby in thefamily, so I have the benefit of
much older siblings and I havebeen a music freak since I was
very young, benefiting fromthose siblings' record
collections.
So the Byrds, the Beatlesobviously, Stones, jefferson
(01:11):
Airplane, hendrix, joplin, youknow that bunch but oddly enough
none of them were into theGrateful Dead that I got into a
little later through a friend.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Gotcha.
So yeah, they were filteringyou some good music.
It sounds like oh yeah, very afriend Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
So yeah, they were.
They were filtering you somegood music.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
It sounds like, oh yeah, very much so.
So you, you did you meetsomebody who was into the dad
that turned you on to it.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yeah, A friend of mine, uh, who was a year or two
older than me, uh turned me onto them.
That would have been the skulland roses record or skull fuck,
as it was sort of originallyintended to be called and then,
uh, really got into him rightafter the europe 72 album came
out, so that would have been 73sometime, and I was hooked from
(01:55):
that point on.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Oh well, it came out that fast I think so.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I think it was 73, I'm pretty sure.
But it took a few more yearsfor me to attend my first show,
which was New Haven in May of1977.
So just a few days prior to theinfamous Cornell show.
But that run and it was quite ashow.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
That's a fine vintage there.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
It is.
It was a great tour.
I mean, I didn't know that atthe time, but now, years later,
looking back at it, a lot ofpeople look at that 77 tour as
really really something special.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, no doubt.
What was it like outside.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I mean, do you remember anything about it?
I mean, there was no vendingright.
What wasking T-shirts out there?
In fact, a good friend of minescreen printed a bunch of
T-shirts.
I wish I still had one, butthat was a long time ago and it
wasn't quite the scene that itbecame.
It was a little mellower.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Right, yeah, I believe that, and they could
still play smaller venues.
New Haven Coliseum is where Ifirst saw them and that was
about about a 10 000 seat arenaand you were, you were hooked.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
After that, I was hooked, yep, yep went to that
and then, a few weeks later, ahartford show.
Uh, in may, may 28th, 77.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
I think that's the day it was.
May 5th was my first show wasmy first show and May 28th my
second.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I do remember listening to a lot of a Hartford
77 show back in the day on acassette.
That was probably the one.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Well, that's been released officially, I think as
part of the I forget what series, what it was called, I forget,
but it's on the CD that I have.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
you know, I'll have to check that out.
It's a good show, I mean.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I could turn around and check my collection and pull
it out, I'll find it, I'll findit, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
And then did you see a bunch right after that.
I mean, how soon and how oftenwere you going?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
um, well, that was it for 77 then.
Uh, you know they, they wouldtypically do a swing through new
england in the spring everyyear, so they would hit, uh, you
know, probably new york.
Uh, new haven, hartford,springfield, providence, boston.
So my next show, which wouldhave been my third, was the New
(04:48):
Haven, hartford, springfield,providence, boston.
So my next show, which wouldhave been my third, was the
following May in New Haven, andthat has been officially
released as a Dick's Pick, Ithink, dick's Pick's 25, I
believe and that was the firstshow that I taped.
As a precocious 17-year-oldalmost 18-year-old, I borrowed a
tape deck from my pot dealer ofall people, and you know, in
(05:12):
those days we could get ticketsat the box office so we would go
down to the New Haven Coliseumand sleep out the night before.
You know, sleeping was, youknow, not really what happened,
but you know stayed up all night.
You know partying and you knowplaying cards or what have you.
But you know we were able toget good tickets.
(05:32):
So I had like about the.
I think I was in the 15th rowcenter on the floor and I set up
a mic stand.
I had this big old cassettedeck and you know, even though
that has been releasedofficially, I kind of enjoy
listening to my recording.
I got to say it was a prettyflawless recording for a first
timer, you know, and I'm stillrecording shows to this day, not
(05:56):
so much dead, but you know I'ma music freak in general.
You know a wide variety oftastes and in fact I just
recorded some music yesterday,nice, and the equipment is
substantially smaller.
This is what I use now, whichis an amazing little deck.
(06:17):
Compared to the old Super Scope330 that I had, that was about
that big.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Right.
Does that have two little micson the top?
Is that stereo?
What is that?
What's?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
going on.
Yeah, these are.
I could change the direction ofthem and they tilt out.
It's Bluetooth so I could havean app on my phone so I could
monitor the record levels fromafar.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Very cool.
Do you just put that in yourpocket or do you hold, like, how
do you?
What do you do with the uh,with the recorder?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
there make sure that everything is kind of the same
and more often than not thesedays, I'm doing it legitimately,
meaning with, uh, with thepermission of the artist, but
without, without the permission.
It's very easy to be discreet.
As you can see, it's so small,um, I mean, I don't know what if
I have a here's an old school,my phone.
(07:15):
Yeah, it's even smaller, um, andit's dark.
So I don't go to a whole lot ofbig concerts anymore.
You know I've been there, donethat.
You know I'm 63 years old, I'vedone that and it's just so damn
expensive.
So I'm happy in the clubs.
And in Boston we have a verygood music scene here.
I also have a very nice externalstereo mic, this Audio Technica
(07:40):
, which is a little better.
These are amazingly good, butthis Audio Technica which I
actually found in the trash once, I don't know who, it's a $300
mic, I don't know who the hellwas throwing it away, but that I
use, you know, for you knowagain, when I don't have to be
you know private about it.
You know if I do an outdoorshow, but typically this
(08:05):
produces amazing results Nice.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, so before we did this you had sent me a
couple of links I was checkingout.
I think it was a 79.
I was just kind of spotlistening to some of the songs
that I wanted to hear, like thesugary and some of the things.
And what I love so much aboutjust audience recordings in
general is you can hear like thecrowd erupts as the song starts
like the people singing alongis a little bit more in there,
(08:30):
which is you're more in there.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, I'm the same way.
You know, of course I'm partialbecause I record it, but and
part of it is it triggersmemories.
You know, this is what itsounded like to me when I was
there, and you know some of myrecorders are not so great.
The one that you listened to Ithink you're referring to the
(08:53):
Stanley Theater in PittsburghWhile I went to.
It was a two-night run.
I think it was November 30thand December 1st of 79.
And I made the drive down fromBoston with a few buddies and
went down there without tickets,pulled up to the box office at,
I think, like 5 o'clock in theafternoon and scored tickets in
the mezzanine, and thesoundboard was in the mezzanine
(09:16):
at this theater and this isabout a 3,500-seat theater, I do
believe it was.
So I was dead center sittinglike in the row right in front
of the soundboard.
I even remember dan healygiving me some duct tape that I
needed for my uh, my mic stand.
You know, dan healy was thesound man for the dead in those
days, and so it's.
(09:37):
That's one of my best recordingsyeah, so very little crowd
noise and the dead were just youknow sounding really good, that
night that was a those twonights really.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So, uh, you saw that show in 77 back to that and then
you said that was the only onein 77.
And then, uh, and what?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Two in 77.
New Haven and Hartford.
And then New Haven again in 78,may of 78, which again was a
Dick's Picks, I think 28, wherethey combined the May 10th show
in New Haven and the May 11thshow in Springfield which I was
also at.
(10:19):
I did not record that one Again.
This is before I bought my owndeck, so I was working with a
borrowed deck the night before.
But it's officially releasednow for everybody's enjoyment
and that let's see that show Ithink they did.
That's right.
They did a double encore.
I think it was Johnny B Goodeand Werewolves of London, or
vice versa.
(10:42):
But they did Werewolves ofLondon, which was a trip, and I
remember Bobby coming out.
He had a Wolfman mask on like afull head mask with the hair
and everything.
That was a trip.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
I think I saw pictures of that.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, I think they played it more than once.
It wasn't just that one show.
I can't say whether he wore themask all the times, but he did
that night.
So I was still in high school,yet to graduate from high school
at that point, just about to.
But uh, uh, in fact, a week ortwo later I graduated and uh, so
(11:16):
, yeah, that run okay.
Yeah, no, I also saw him inprovidence a few nights later,
may 14th.
It's amazing how I couldremember.
Well, it's not that amazingthat I can remember the dates,
because I've got all therecordings.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yeah, yeah, that's the beauty of it.
We can look back on it likethat.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, but I can remember taking a bus from New
Haven to Providence with a caseof beer and a bag of weed with a
buddy, and we got a hotel roomacross from the Providence Civic
Center where the dead werestaying a weed with a buddy and
we got a hotel room across fromthe Providence Civic Center
where the dead were staying andthat show is.
I don't think it's an officialrelease, but it's been in wide
circulation for a long time and,of course, with archiveorg it's
(11:57):
up there.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
I think the soundboard is up there.
And that was a good show, tooGreat being able to find
everything there.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah, there and that was a good show too great being
able to find everything thereyeah and, uh, I'm amazed my mom
didn't give me a hell, for youknow, you know her barely 18
year old or not yet 18 year oldkid jumping out of bus and going
to providence and stayingovernight, but my older siblings
broke her in, so by the time itcame to me, you know it was
like ah.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah she's too old for that.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Go ahead, do what you want, yeah exactly Because my
siblings are all like 8, 9, 10,13 years older than me, so they
were already past college age atthat point.
Gotcha, you know they were incollege in the 60s high school
and college Gotcha in college inthe 60s high school and college
Gotcha and able to go to seeJimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin
(12:52):
and Woodstock and all thoseshows.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Oh yeah, so good.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I always wish that if I was only born five years
earlier, I could have gone tothe Fillmore and seen some of
those great shows.
But now that I'm older and Italk to younger people they say,
oh, you saw Led Zeppelin, yousaw you know the Dead with Keith
and Donna.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah a lot of shows.
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Speaker 1 (15:11):
All right.
So how many more dead shows didyou see?
Like you say, you kept goingthrough the 80s.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
I mean, how many do you think you saw in total?
Well, in total, between 77 and95,.
I think somewhere around 100,give or take a few, I sort of.
My most intense period, I wouldsay, was 77 to 84.
And, you know, a little moresporadic afterwards.
(15:38):
You know once I reached, youknow, adulthood, sort of.
And you know a job?
Yeah, life happens.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
And.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I'd see them whenever they came nearby.
I never really droppedeverything and followed them on
tour.
I would do swings, you know,catch the New England shows, and
a couple of times drove toPittsburgh, which is like a 13
hour drive from Boston.
But because it was the StanleyTheater, you know, it was worth
the drive and worth drivingthrough a snowstorm in a
(16:11):
crotchety old vw bus with noheat and in a snowstorm.
for one of those uh one of thoseyears I think it was the 80, 81
, early 81 they did a run inmarch of 81 uh followed.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
The tires like five inches wide on those fans right,
Something like that, and theheat they're notorious for not
having any heat.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
The windshield was icing over the windshield wipers
are frozen we eventually had topull over at a rest area and
ride out the snow, and that wasan adventure.
And then we continued on toUniversity of Maryland.
This is again March of 81.
And then somebody, we got amotel.
(16:57):
There's a bunch of us, like sixor seven of us, and the guy
with the keys to the Volkswagendecided to wake up before
everybody else and jump on aplane and head back to New York.
And he had the keys to the buswith him.
And so we were stranded thereand you know we had to get.
You know, this is the pre cellphone age, mind you.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
So I can't remember exactly how we I think he
contacted us, cause he realizedthat he had the keys and he had
the the motel information.
So he made arrangements.
He I think was still at theairport was able to get them on
a flight or some sort of servicewhere they could get them on
(17:39):
the next flight we had to go tothe airport pick them up.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Oh wow.
Yeah, it was crazy.
It was good, but we werefreaking out for a few hours man
.
Yeah, I believe you.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
So that's an adventure from the road.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
You had tickets for the next show too, so you're
like we got to go.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
No, no, we didn't.
I think that's why he took off,because they were playing
Madison Square Garden the nextday.
And that's why he took off andwent.
But I did not continue on tothose shows, just came back to
Boston.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Right, you probably did see some MSG shows through
the years though, being in thatarea.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I did.
I lived in New York from 86 tolate 88.
So I caught some of the 87 runs.
I think it was September of 87.
I caught a few shows, not myfavorite venue, I know a lot of
people love it.
But you know, being from theNew York area originally, I got
to see Led Zeppelin there in 77.
(18:41):
Well, actually Pink Floyd onthe 4th of July 77.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
And then Led Zeppelin was a few weeks before that, so
that was just a commuter trainride in from.
New.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Haven to New York.
So, yeah, so those were great,but it's, you know, huge and
loud.
You know, especially the EastCoast dead crowd was rather loud
and boisterous.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
You know it's like.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Why do you come to the shows if you've got a screen
during the nice Stella Blue.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I've heard that, yo.
Recently somebody was tellingme about the difference between
East Coast and West Coast.
In the 70s.
East Coast he went to some MSGshows and it was pretty rowdy.
Then he went to Shoreline orsomething like that in the 80s
and everybody was sitting downand really mellow.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, I only got to see them once in California.
That was in 1983 in Santa Cruz,watsonville, which was a great
show, and I believe that's thelast time they played Deep Ellen
Blues Electric anyways.
And it was a beautiful outdoordaytime show, afternoon show,
(19:49):
and got to take my first dip inthe and only dip in the pacific
ocean.
After that, at the santa cruzuh boardwalk, probably had the
best burrito in my life rode theroller coaster.
See, I remember this shit yeah,yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
And all that because of the grateful dead right yeah,
well.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Well, that was part of my one cross-country drive,
which wasn't specifically to seethe dead, but my girlfriend at
the time was living in Coloradoand working for the summer and I
got a drive-away car and hookedup with another lovely young
woman and I'll skip the story.
(20:30):
Between Boston and Denver it'sa little tawdry, but you know
arrived and you know going to.
We had tickets for Red Rocks.
They did a three-night run therein September of 83, caught the
three nights in Red Rocks, whichwas just magnificent.
Caught the Three Knights of RedRocks, which was just
magnificent, one of the moreEthereal places To see the dead.
(20:54):
I remember pulling into thisDeadhead Overrun campsite in the
dark In Colorado.
I think we entered Colorado Onthe highway around sunset so I
didn't really get to see theRockies, and this campsite was
on a hill.
I remember waking up in themorning on the highway around
sunset so I didn't really get tosee the Rockies.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
And this campsite was on a hill.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
I remember waking up in the morning and stumbling out
of my tent and walking to thetop of the hill and getting my
first glimpse of the Rockies.
It was a spiritual moment forme.
And then the following twonights we camped at a campsite
that was set up, I think, at aflea market site, but it was
subsidized by the dead on somelevel, and there was a food
(21:32):
co-op from Boulder that set upshop there and sold food and
there were water trucks toprovide co-ed showers, which was
nice, and I happened to becamping right next to hog farm
people.
Wavy, gravy and the hog farmpeople who looked like crusty
old deadheads uh, which theywere, but at the time, they were
(21:53):
probably like in their 40s.
You know which?
is like 20 years younger than Iam now, but they were really
cool and wavy gravy.
I remember walking.
He was walking around in his uhspeedo bathing suit and his you
know no shirt, his duck billhat.
And then they had an old schoolbus that they used to shuttle
(22:14):
people from the campsite to RedRocks, to the site.
So that was really cool.
And then continued on to myfriend's place in Gunnison,
colorado, spent a couple of daysthere and then she and I and
friends of hers caravaned downto Santa Fe and caught the dead
(22:37):
a couple of nights at the SantaFe Downs.
Again, this is September of 83.
And those are special shows.
Again afternoon shows.
I can't remember which night itwas the first or second night
it was a downpour, so they cutthe first set short and I
(22:57):
literally ducked into a barndoor to the line from Bertha.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
It was a horse track.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
So there were these barns there and a bunch of us
sought shelter in the barn, andthen the storm came and passed
rather quickly and the secondset began with a beautiful
rainbow going over the stage.
You know, I think it might haveeven been a double rainbow.
And there you know the setting.
I don't know if you've everbeen to Santa Fe, but you're
surrounded by the Sangre delCristo mountains and it was just
(23:27):
a beautiful, beautiful place tosee a show.
And again it was so muchmellower than what I'm used to
was used to in the East Coast,because you know you could sort
of walk up to the stage.
You know it was still crowdedbut not as crushing as it would
be in Boston or New York.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Now it's just crushing everywhere.
I feel like oh, yeah, yeah.
All right.
So what's something you knowyou're a music junkie.
What's something that you'veheard recently that's new,
that's really jumped out at youas something that's fantastic,
that the listeners should checkout?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Oh geez, Well, can I give a plug to?
Speaker 1 (24:13):
friends of mine.
Anything you want, yeah, likeif it's good Look up the
Chandler Travis Philharmonic.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Chandler Travis Philharmonic.
You could go onto YouTube andfind videos.
He is a guy who's been aroundsince the early 70s, a cohort of
NRBQ.
I don't know if you've heard ofNRBQ.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Another great band from way back, but he's local to
the Massachusetts area,nowadays lives in Cape Cod and
just a tremendous musician,talented writer, goofy, funny
guy.
He was good friends with GeorgeCarlin and toured as his
opening act for a number ofyears, recorded with Martin Mull
(25:01):
, the comedian.
Like I say, he's been aroundand the Philharmonic is a large
band horn section, double bassone of the best drummers in the
world and Ricky Bates and I'mfortunate I've been recording
them a lot for the last 25 yearsand he performs in a lot of
(25:21):
different configurations the bigband, a smaller version of the
band four piece, more rock androll band blah blah blah.
Look him up.
I'd recommend that to youyoungsters out there.
Chandler travis, phil harmonicor just chandler travis yeah um,
I'm really impressed with thatbillyings kid.
You know he's something else.
(25:43):
You know I don't know.
I hate to pin it down.
You know my tastes are varied.
You know, back in the day, youknow I could be at a dead show
on Wednesday night and a crampshow on Friday night.
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
I left.
I never liked being pigeonholedas a deadhead.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
I mean, I'm proud to carry that moniker but it wasn't
all that I listened to, likesome people really devote
everything and all to the dead.
But I was into the punk scenein the early 80s and you know X
and Los Lobos and the Cramps andyou know, uh, the ramones I was
(26:24):
still a little young for it, so.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
So my era was more like bad brains and and oh yeah,
them too dead can dead kennedysand sort of dead kennedys and
dks.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Sure yeah, flipper uh germs love that stuff yeah,
yeah and yeah.
And I got to say I used todrive cab for many years in
Boston and New York City and oneof my favorite passengers in my
New York years overall was JoeyRamone.
(26:53):
Picked him up late one nightdrove him around for about
almost an hour and I'll sparethe.
You know all the details, butyou know he ended up rapping
with me.
He had a big guy with him Idon't know if it was a bodyguard
or a personal assistant, but wewere driving around the East
village, the West village, andwe would make all these stops at
(27:15):
these newsstands you know, inNew York they have these 24 hour
newsstands and the other guywould get out, come back five,
ten minutes later with somemagazines and comic books.
I guess Joey was a comic bookfan so I'd be sitting in the car
with Joey and my brotherhappened to be in a seminal New
York band in the 70s called MinkDeVille, who were the house
(27:38):
band at CBGD's for a period in76-77 and my brother was with
them in 77 for about a year.
I don't know if you've heard ofMink DeVille fronted by a guy
named Willie DeVille, greatsinger sounds vaguely familiar,
but not real familiar.
No but that would have been like.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Talking Heads are playing there Bad.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Boys is playing there came out of that same scene,
the same scene as the Talkingheads and ramones and television
and uh and uh, blondie, uh,yeah, so it was that same scene.
But will mcdonald was a littlemore r&b, a little more 50s,
early 60s style r&b.
Um, great singer, he's nolonger with us, unfortunately.
(28:20):
He he passed away about.
I think it's about 15 years agonow, but I mentioned that to
Joe.
And he goes oh man, man.
I meant to feel sure you know.
And he said what else are youinto?
I said, well, you know I'm abig deadhead, you know, really,
like the dead he goes.
Oh the dead.
You know, I saw them at theFillmore.
I saw them at the Fillmore andyou know they were really cool.
(28:40):
I liked them.
That's all I got out of it.
But you know, to hear thatcoming out of Jody Ramone was
pretty cool.
You wouldn't expect, but youknow, he's a New Yorker.
He grew up, you know, as ateenager in the late 60s, 70s
and I'm sure he went to a bunchof shows at the Fillmore.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, I'm sure, yeah, yeah, I'm sure, yeah.
What's the best show?
What stands out as the most funtime best show you saw.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
That has to be Lewiston, maine, september 6th
1980.
It was the last show of thattour, that summer tour, and it
was an outdoor show, probably,I'm guessing, 20, 25 000 people
at the main state fairgroundsand for some reason I've seen
them in maine a few times afterthat.
(29:32):
They always put on great showsin maine.
I don't get it, but this showyou know I was recording.
I was right beside thesoundboard, I I dropped some
acid, I had a really nice tripbut made one of the best
recordings of my dead tapingcareer and it was a long show.
You know, typically in thosedays a dead show was about two
(29:54):
90 minute cassettes.
This was closer to three.
You know two and a half it wason three cassettes, it was like
two and a half cassettesthereabouts and that's widely
circulated and widely thought ofas a great show for those of us
that were there.
But if you listen to it.
The second set was monstrous,you know.
I'm sure it's up there atarchive and it's out there.
(30:16):
I don't think they had a goodenough board recording to
release it officially.
I think there were somescrew-ups or something along the
line.
But I again, I have myrecording and I was right there
at the soundboard with my mics.
You know, 12 feet up in the airand great sound, despite you
(30:36):
know my mental state at the time.
And it was also LaVon Helm wason the bill and Roy Buchanan,
great, great guitarist yeah,he's a great guitarist.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Yeah so.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I was.
That was a really nice show.
This, I think, when it allboils down to it, that was my
favorite show.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
One time I finagled to get full access backstage.
It was a freshman, freshman incollege, living in a dormitory
and these two very lovely youngwomen knew you know they were
the type of people that gotbackstage passes all the time
and they said oh, you know,you're going to the show, we're
(31:15):
not going, but we know somenames that they're always on the
list.
So I went with my girlfriend atthe time and it was at a weird
place.
It was in a town calledBillerica, massachusetts, which
is about 20 miles north ofBoston, small town, suburban
town.
They were playing in what wasessentially the town's skating
(31:36):
rink, so a cinder block building.
It was put on by the Universityof Lowell, so a cinder block
building.
It was put on by the Universityof Lowell, who didn't have a
facility at the time.
So that's why it was held there.
And we went there and got thereearly, went to the side of the
building where they werechecking people for passes, got
to hear the sound check, whichis neat, and as I got closer in
(31:59):
line to the guy with theclipboard I could see over his
shoulder at the clipboard and Ididn't see any of the names that
my friends had given me.
But I did see somebody else'sname and I said, yeah, I'm Joe
Schmo.
And he said, oh, you got afriend.
And I said, yeah, her.
And he said, okay, come on in.
And it was full accessbackstage and didn't ask for an
(32:21):
ID or anything.
All these years later, I feelkind of guilty that that person
maybe showed up and didn't getin, and I'm sorry, if you're
listening, I'm sorry but,perhaps they had ID and showed
it and got in.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
But I remember the head, the large yeah, good one.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
As we're still outside, this whole contingent
of hell's angels pulls up ontheir rides through the crowd.
So we're, my friend and I, werefloating backstage and, uh, it
was really hot, it was may of 79.
And you know, we availedourselves of the buffet tables
(33:06):
backstage and didn't pushourselves, you know, to try to
meet the guys, but could smellthe good weed coming from the
curtained off area.
My friend and I were standingin the doorway, garage doorway,
and we hear this voice sayingman, it's really hot in here.
And we look over and it's BillyCrudson and he just starts
(33:27):
chatting with us.
You know he was like, oh, doyou like the show?
And then I remember meeting thisI don't want to say elderly
woman, but an older woman and wesaid, oh, are you enjoying the
show?
He said, oh, yeah, my son's abig deadhead and he had tickets
but he couldn't make it.
So he said, mom, why don't yougo?
So she came and she said Ireally liked it, but they didn't
(33:49):
play my favorite song.
We said what's that?
She said, oh, Eyes of the World.
We said, oh, that's a secondset song.
So stick around, maybe, around,maybe they'll play it, and sure
enough, they did play it Ididn't see her after that.
So I didn't know if she enjoyedit, but I ended up like kind of
walking on to the stage well,the back of the stage and I was
(34:10):
sitting on one of the anvilcases for you know, 10 minutes
or so.
It didn't sound so good there,but hey, it was cool.
But I was you know, maybe 20feet from Garcia behind him and
you know we were floating aroundbetween backstage and, you know
, front of the stage in theaudience, you know, because it
(34:30):
sounds better.
So backstage isn't all thatgreat except for the coolness of
it and the experience.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
And the free food?
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yeah, exactly, and the next day was a big outdoor
show at the University ofMassachusetts in Amherst, with
Patty Smith opening up the PattySmith Group and Roy Ayers.
But also, you know, some yearslater I was a personal assistant
(35:00):
to a formerly famous rock star.
His words, mind you, not mine.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
But have you ever heard?
Speaker 2 (35:07):
of Al Cooper.
Yes, cooper with a K, not.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Alice Cooper yeah, he played with Bloomfield.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
The Blues Project.
Yeah well, there was a SuperSession album with Mike
Bloomfield.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, that's what I'm familiar with him from and some
other things I know he's donesome other stuff oh a shitload
of other things.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
You know the Blues Project, bob Dylan's organ
player on Highway 61, revisitedBlonde Eye.
Blonde a bunch of other recordsPlayed with Hendrix, the Stones
, the who he was the stagemanager of the.
Monterey Pop Festival.
Oh wow, the who, uh, he was thestage manager of the monterey
(35:45):
pop festival.
Uh, oh, wow and uh oh,discovered leonard skinner,
signed them to his label andproduced their first three
records produced neil's laugh,grin the tubes.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
So he's got his fingerprint.
As you're saying these things,I'm like, oh yeah, I guess I did
sort of know that it's likeringing some bells.
Look him up, you'd be amazed atwhat this guy's.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
You know what he's been involved with but he lives
in the boston area and, uh,circumstances came up, he needed
a personal assistant and uh, afriend of mine had the gig prior
to me and he recommended me tohim when he was moving on and I
was with him for about a yearand a half and it was really
cool, it's basically justhanging out at his house you
(36:24):
know, four or five days a weekrunning errands, bringing him to
gigs and rehearsals andlistening to his stories.
You know of which he's got abunch, if you ever could find
the book, his book BackstagePasses and Backstabbing Bastards
.
Backstage Passes andBackstabbing Bastards.
Backstage Passes andBackstabbing Bastards.
It's a great look at the rockand roll world, you know, from
(36:47):
the perspective of somebody whowas in there deeply it's
fascinating it might be out ofprint, but if you're ever in a
used bookstore and come acrossit, it's a real good read.
In fact, one of the moreinteresting stories he told me
was in 1980 he was living inLondon and he's a night owl, you
know.
He sleeps like four hours anight.
(37:08):
So he was up at about four inthe morning or three in the
morning when the news broke thatJohn Lennon had been shot and
killed and he was I was due torecord with George Harrison the
next day.
To record with George Harrisonthe next day.
So he was going to be drivingdown to his George's estate with
(37:28):
Herbie Flowers, I believe,great bass player obsession man
mostly.
And you know they touch base inthe morning and say, well, what
do you think?
Do you think we should still gothrough with it?
And they agreed that it wouldprobably be good for George to,
you know, be with people andmake some music and get his mind
off of things.
So they did.
They drove down there, spentthe day drinking wine and
playing, making music, untilGeorge said oh boys, it's become
(37:52):
a bit sour, it's time to callit quits.
But that's you know.
Amazing that he spent the daywith you know, a beetle the day
after John was killed.
Amazing that he spent the daywith a beetle the day after John
was killed.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Paul, thank you so much for joining me.
I appreciate you being on andyou told some great stories
today.
So, yeah, thanks a lot forbeing here.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
You're welcome, Will.
Thank you for having me.
Tales from the Lot, episode 25,.
I ducked into a barn door.
My guest is Paul Cirincionefrom Boston.
He's here to talk, taping inthe 70s, 80s, 90s, seeing a
whole bunch of shows and goodtimes.
Here we go.
Hi, welcome to Tales from theLot.
This is Will.
My guest this time is PaulCirincione.
He's coming to us from Boston.
(00:21):
I think I didn't butcher it,but how are you doing, paul?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Very good.
No, that was as close as couldbe expected.
For a first try at least right,Ciancioni, if you want to
pronounce it in Italian.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yeah, welcome.
So you're in Boston now.
Is that where you're fromoriginally?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
No, I'm originally from the New Haven, Connecticut
area.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Okay, so up in New Haven.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Connecticut specifically.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
That's cool.
What were you into musically?
What were you listening togrowing up?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Oh boy.
Well, I am the baby in thefamily, so I have the benefit of
much older siblings and I havebeen a music freak since I was
very young, benefiting fromthose siblings' record
collections.
So the Byrds, the Beatlesobviously, Stones, jefferson
(01:11):
Airplane, hendrix, joplin, youknow that bunch but oddly enough
none of them were into theGrateful Dead that I got into a
little later through a friend.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Gotcha.
So yeah, they were filteringyou some good music.
It sounds like oh yeah, very afriend Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
So yeah, they were.
They were filtering you somegood music.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
It sounds like, oh yeah, very much so.
So you, you did you meetsomebody who was into the dad
that turned you on to it.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yeah, A friend of mine, uh, who was a year or two
older than me, uh turned me onto them.
That would have been the skulland roses record or skull fuck,
as it was sort of originallyintended to be called and then,
uh, really got into him rightafter the europe 72 album came
out, so that would have been 73sometime, and I was hooked from
(01:55):
that point on.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Oh well, it came out that fast I think so.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I think it was 73, I'm pretty sure.
But it took a few more yearsfor me to attend my first show,
which was New Haven in May of1977.
So just a few days prior to theinfamous Cornell show.
But that run and it was quite ashow.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
That's a fine vintage there.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
It is.
It was a great tour.
I mean, I didn't know that atthe time, but now, years later,
looking back at it, a lot ofpeople look at that 77 tour as
really really something special.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, no doubt.
What was it like outside.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I mean, do you remember anything about it?
I mean, there was no vendingright.
What wasking T-shirts out there?
In fact, a good friend of minescreen printed a bunch of
T-shirts.
I wish I still had one, butthat was a long time ago and it
wasn't quite the scene that itbecame.
It was a little mellower.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Right, yeah, I believe that, and they could
still play smaller venues.
New Haven Coliseum is where Ifirst saw them and that was
about about a 10 000 seat arenaand you were, you were hooked.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
After that, I was hooked, yep, yep went to that
and then, a few weeks later, ahartford show.
Uh, in may, may 28th, 77.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
I think that's the day it was.
May 5th was my first show wasmy first show and May 28th my
second.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I do remember listening to a lot of a Hartford
77 show back in the day on acassette.
That was probably the one.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Well, that's been released officially, I think as
part of the I forget what series, what it was called, I forget,
but it's on the CD that I have.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
you know, I'll have to check that out.
It's a good show, I mean.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I could turn around and check my collection and pull
it out, I'll find it, I'll findit, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
And then did you see a bunch right after that.
I mean, how soon and how oftenwere you going?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
um, well, that was it for 77 then.
Uh, you know they, they wouldtypically do a swing through new
england in the spring everyyear, so they would hit, uh, you
know, probably new york.
Uh, new haven, hartford,springfield, providence, boston.
So my next show, which wouldhave been my third, was the New
(04:48):
Haven, hartford, springfield,providence, boston.
So my next show, which wouldhave been my third, was the
following May in New Haven, andthat has been officially
released as a Dick's Pick, Ithink, dick's Pick's 25, I
believe and that was the firstshow that I taped.
As a precocious 17-year-oldalmost 18-year-old, I borrowed a
tape deck from my pot dealer ofall people, and you know, in
(05:12):
those days we could get ticketsat the box office so we would go
down to the New Haven Coliseumand sleep out the night before.
You know, sleeping was, youknow, not really what happened,
but you know stayed up all night.
You know partying and you knowplaying cards or what have you.
But you know we were able toget good tickets.
(05:32):
So I had like about the.
I think I was in the 15th rowcenter on the floor and I set up
a mic stand.
I had this big old cassettedeck and you know, even though
that has been releasedofficially, I kind of enjoy
listening to my recording.
I got to say it was a prettyflawless recording for a first
timer, you know, and I'm stillrecording shows to this day, not
(05:56):
so much dead, but you know I'ma music freak in general.
You know a wide variety oftastes and in fact I just
recorded some music yesterday,nice, and the equipment is
substantially smaller.
This is what I use now, whichis an amazing little deck.
(06:17):
Compared to the old Super Scope330 that I had, that was about
that big.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Right.
Does that have two little micson the top?
Is that stereo?
What is that?
What's?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
going on.
Yeah, these are.
I could change the direction ofthem and they tilt out.
It's Bluetooth so I could havean app on my phone so I could
monitor the record levels fromafar.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Very cool.
Do you just put that in yourpocket or do you hold, like, how
do you?
What do you do with the uh,with the recorder?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
there make sure that everything is kind of the same
and more often than not thesedays, I'm doing it legitimately,
meaning with, uh, with thepermission of the artist, but
without, without the permission.
It's very easy to be discreet.
As you can see, it's so small,um, I mean, I don't know what if
I have a here's an old school,my phone.
(07:15):
Yeah, it's even smaller, um, andit's dark.
So I don't go to a whole lot ofbig concerts anymore.
You know I've been there, donethat.
You know I'm 63 years old, I'vedone that and it's just so damn
expensive.
So I'm happy in the clubs.
And in Boston we have a verygood music scene here.
I also have a very nice externalstereo mic, this Audio Technica
(07:40):
, which is a little better.
These are amazingly good, butthis Audio Technica which I
actually found in the trash once, I don't know who, it's a $300
mic, I don't know who the hellwas throwing it away, but that I
use, you know, for you knowagain, when I don't have to be
you know private about it.
You know if I do an outdoorshow, but typically this
(08:05):
produces amazing results Nice.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, so before we did this you had sent me a
couple of links I was checkingout.
I think it was a 79.
I was just kind of spotlistening to some of the songs
that I wanted to hear, like thesugary and some of the things.
And what I love so much aboutjust audience recordings in
general is you can hear like thecrowd erupts as the song starts
like the people singing alongis a little bit more in there,
(08:30):
which is you're more in there.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, I'm the same way.
You know, of course I'm partialbecause I record it, but and
part of it is it triggersmemories.
You know, this is what itsounded like to me when I was
there, and you know some of myrecorders are not so great.
The one that you listened to Ithink you're referring to the
(08:53):
Stanley Theater in PittsburghWhile I went to.
It was a two-night run.
I think it was November 30thand December 1st of 79.
And I made the drive down fromBoston with a few buddies and
went down there without tickets,pulled up to the box office at,
I think, like 5 o'clock in theafternoon and scored tickets in
the mezzanine, and thesoundboard was in the mezzanine
(09:16):
at this theater and this isabout a 3,500-seat theater, I do
believe it was.
So I was dead center sittinglike in the row right in front
of the soundboard.
I even remember dan healygiving me some duct tape that I
needed for my uh, my mic stand.
You know, dan healy was thesound man for the dead in those
days, and so it's.
(09:37):
That's one of my best recordingsyeah, so very little crowd
noise and the dead were just youknow sounding really good, that
night that was a those twonights really.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So, uh, you saw that show in 77 back to that and then
you said that was the only onein 77.
And then, uh, and what?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Two in 77.
New Haven and Hartford.
And then New Haven again in 78,may of 78, which again was a
Dick's Picks, I think 28, wherethey combined the May 10th show
in New Haven and the May 11thshow in Springfield which I was
also at.
(10:19):
I did not record that one Again.
This is before I bought my owndeck, so I was working with a
borrowed deck the night before.
But it's officially releasednow for everybody's enjoyment
and that let's see that show Ithink they did.
That's right.
They did a double encore.
I think it was Johnny B Goodeand Werewolves of London, or
vice versa.
(10:42):
But they did Werewolves ofLondon, which was a trip, and I
remember Bobby coming out.
He had a Wolfman mask on like afull head mask with the hair
and everything.
That was a trip.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
I think I saw pictures of that.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, I think they played it more than once.
It wasn't just that one show.
I can't say whether he wore themask all the times, but he did
that night.
So I was still in high school,yet to graduate from high school
at that point, just about to.
But uh, uh, in fact, a week ortwo later I graduated and uh, so
(11:16):
, yeah, that run okay.
Yeah, no, I also saw him inprovidence a few nights later,
may 14th.
It's amazing how I couldremember.
Well, it's not that amazingthat I can remember the dates,
because I've got all therecordings.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yeah, yeah, that's the beauty of it.
We can look back on it likethat.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, but I can remember taking a bus from New
Haven to Providence with a caseof beer and a bag of weed with a
buddy, and we got a hotel roomacross from the Providence Civic
Center where the dead werestaying a weed with a buddy and
we got a hotel room across fromthe Providence Civic Center
where the dead were staying andthat show is.
I don't think it's an officialrelease, but it's been in wide
circulation for a long time and,of course, with archiveorg it's
(11:57):
up there.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
I think the soundboard is up there.
And that was a good show, tooGreat being able to find
everything there.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah, there and that was a good show too great being
able to find everything thereyeah and, uh, I'm amazed my mom
didn't give me a hell, for youknow, you know her barely 18
year old or not yet 18 year oldkid jumping out of bus and going
to providence and stayingovernight, but my older siblings
broke her in, so by the time itcame to me, you know it was
like ah.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah she's too old for that.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Go ahead, do what you want, yeah exactly Because my
siblings are all like 8, 9, 10,13 years older than me, so they
were already past college age atthat point.
Gotcha, you know they were incollege in the 60s high school
and college Gotcha in college inthe 60s high school and college
Gotcha and able to go to seeJimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin
(12:52):
and Woodstock and all thoseshows.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Oh yeah, so good.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I always wish that if I was only born five years
earlier, I could have gone tothe Fillmore and seen some of
those great shows.
But now that I'm older and Italk to younger people they say,
oh, you saw Led Zeppelin, yousaw you know the Dead with Keith
and Donna.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah a lot of shows.
So it's every generation hastheir thing.
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Speaker 2 (15:10):
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Speaker 1 (15:11):
All right.
So how many more dead shows didyou see?
Like you say, you kept goingthrough the 80s.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
I mean, how many do you think you saw in total?
Well, in total, between 77 and95,.
I think somewhere around 100,give or take a few, I sort of.
My most intense period, I wouldsay, was 77 to 84.
And, you know, a little moresporadic afterwards.
(15:38):
You know once I reached, youknow, adulthood, sort of.
And you know a job?
Yeah, life happens.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
And.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I'd see them whenever they came nearby.
I never really droppedeverything and followed them on
tour.
I would do swings, you know,catch the New England shows, and
a couple of times drove toPittsburgh, which is like a 13
hour drive from Boston.
But because it was the StanleyTheater, you know, it was worth
the drive and worth drivingthrough a snowstorm in a
(16:11):
crotchety old vw bus with noheat and in a snowstorm.
for one of those uh one of thoseyears I think it was the 80, 81
, early 81 they did a run inmarch of 81 uh followed.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
The tires like five inches wide on those fans right,
Something like that, and theheat they're notorious for not
having any heat.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
The windshield was icing over the windshield wipers
are frozen we eventually had topull over at a rest area and
ride out the snow, and that wasan adventure.
And then we continued on toUniversity of Maryland.
This is again March of 81.
And then somebody, we got amotel.
(16:57):
There's a bunch of us, like sixor seven of us, and the guy
with the keys to the Volkswagendecided to wake up before
everybody else and jump on aplane and head back to New York.
And he had the keys to the buswith him.
And so we were stranded thereand you know we had to get.
You know, this is the pre cellphone age, mind you.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
So I can't remember exactly how we I think he
contacted us, cause he realizedthat he had the keys and he had
the the motel information.
So he made arrangements.
He I think was still at theairport was able to get them on
a flight or some sort of servicewhere they could get them on
(17:39):
the next flight we had to go tothe airport pick them up.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Oh wow.
Yeah, it was crazy.
It was good, but we werefreaking out for a few hours man
.
Yeah, I believe you.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
So that's an adventure from the road.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
You had tickets for the next show too, so you're
like we got to go.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
No, no, we didn't.
I think that's why he took off,because they were playing
Madison Square Garden the nextday.
And that's why he took off andwent.
But I did not continue on tothose shows, just came back to
Boston.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Right, you probably did see some MSG shows through
the years though, being in thatarea.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I did.
I lived in New York from 86 tolate 88.
So I caught some of the 87 runs.
I think it was September of 87.
I caught a few shows, not myfavorite venue, I know a lot of
people love it.
But you know, being from theNew York area originally, I got
to see Led Zeppelin there in 77.
(18:41):
Well, actually Pink Floyd onthe 4th of July 77.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
And then Led Zeppelin was a few weeks before that, so
that was just a commuter trainride in from.
New.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Haven to New York.
So, yeah, so those were great,but it's, you know, huge and
loud.
You know, especially the EastCoast dead crowd was rather loud
and boisterous.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
You know it's like.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Why do you come to the shows if you've got a screen
during the nice Stella Blue.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I've heard that, yo.
Recently somebody was tellingme about the difference between
East Coast and West Coast.
In the 70s.
East Coast he went to some MSGshows and it was pretty rowdy.
Then he went to Shoreline orsomething like that in the 80s
and everybody was sitting downand really mellow.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, I only got to see them once in California.
That was in 1983 in Santa Cruz,watsonville, which was a great
show, and I believe that's thelast time they played Deep Ellen
Blues Electric anyways.
And it was a beautiful outdoordaytime show, afternoon show,
(19:49):
and got to take my first dip inthe and only dip in the pacific
ocean.
After that, at the santa cruzuh boardwalk, probably had the
best burrito in my life rode theroller coaster.
See, I remember this shit yeah,yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
And all that because of the grateful dead right yeah,
well.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Well, that was part of my one cross-country drive,
which wasn't specifically to seethe dead, but my girlfriend at
the time was living in Coloradoand working for the summer and I
got a drive-away car and hookedup with another lovely young
woman and I'll skip the story.
(20:30):
Between Boston and Denver it'sa little tawdry, but you know
arrived and you know going to.
We had tickets for Red Rocks.
They did a three-night run therein September of 83, caught the
three nights in Red Rocks, whichwas just magnificent.
Caught the Three Knights of RedRocks, which was just
magnificent, one of the moreEthereal places To see the dead.
(20:54):
I remember pulling into thisDeadhead Overrun campsite in the
dark In Colorado.
I think we entered Colorado Onthe highway around sunset so I
didn't really get to see theRockies, and this campsite was
on a hill.
I remember waking up in themorning on the highway around
sunset so I didn't really get tosee the Rockies.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
And this campsite was on a hill.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
I remember waking up in the morning and stumbling out
of my tent and walking to thetop of the hill and getting my
first glimpse of the Rockies.
It was a spiritual moment forme.
And then the following twonights we camped at a campsite
that was set up, I think, at aflea market site, but it was
subsidized by the dead on somelevel, and there was a food
(21:32):
co-op from Boulder that set upshop there and sold food and
there were water trucks toprovide co-ed showers, which was
nice, and I happened to becamping right next to hog farm
people.
Wavy, gravy and the hog farmpeople who looked like crusty
old deadheads uh, which theywere, but at the time, they were
(21:53):
probably like in their 40s.
You know which?
is like 20 years younger than Iam now, but they were really
cool and wavy gravy.
I remember walking.
He was walking around in his uhspeedo bathing suit and his you
know no shirt, his duck billhat.
And then they had an old schoolbus that they used to shuttle
(22:14):
people from the campsite to RedRocks, to the site.
So that was really cool.
And then continued on to myfriend's place in Gunnison,
colorado, spent a couple of daysthere and then she and I and
friends of hers caravaned downto Santa Fe and caught the dead
(22:37):
a couple of nights at the SantaFe Downs.
Again, this is September of 83.
And those are special shows.
Again afternoon shows.
I can't remember which night itwas the first or second night
it was a downpour, so they cutthe first set short and I
(22:57):
literally ducked into a barndoor to the line from Bertha.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
It was a horse track.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
So there were these barns there and a bunch of us
sought shelter in the barn, andthen the storm came and passed
rather quickly and the secondset began with a beautiful
rainbow going over the stage.
You know, I think it might haveeven been a double rainbow.
And there you know the setting.
I don't know if you've everbeen to Santa Fe, but you're
surrounded by the Sangre delCristo mountains and it was just
(23:27):
a beautiful, beautiful place tosee a show.
And again it was so muchmellower than what I'm used to
was used to in the East Coast,because you know you could sort
of walk up to the stage.
You know it was still crowdedbut not as crushing as it would
be in Boston or New York.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Now it's just crushing everywhere.
I feel like oh, yeah, yeah.
All right.
So what's something you knowyou're a music junkie.
What's something that you'veheard recently that's new,
that's really jumped out at youas something that's fantastic,
that the listeners should checkout?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Oh geez, Well, can I give a plug to?
Speaker 1 (24:13):
friends of mine.
Anything you want, yeah, likeif it's good Look up the
Chandler Travis Philharmonic.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Chandler Travis Philharmonic.
You could go onto YouTube andfind videos.
He is a guy who's been aroundsince the early 70s, a cohort of
NRBQ.
I don't know if you've heard ofNRBQ.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Another great band from way back, but he's local to
the Massachusetts area,nowadays lives in Cape Cod and
just a tremendous musician,talented writer, goofy, funny
guy.
He was good friends with GeorgeCarlin and toured as his
opening act for a number ofyears, recorded with Martin Mull
(25:01):
, the comedian.
Like I say, he's been aroundand the Philharmonic is a large
band horn section, double bassone of the best drummers in the
world and Ricky Bates and I'mfortunate I've been recording
them a lot for the last 25 yearsand he performs in a lot of
(25:21):
different configurations the bigband, a smaller version of the
band four piece, more rock androll band blah blah blah.
Look him up.
I'd recommend that to youyoungsters out there.
Chandler travis, phil harmonicor just chandler travis yeah um,
I'm really impressed with thatbillyings kid.
You know he's something else.
(25:43):
You know I don't know.
I hate to pin it down.
You know my tastes are varied.
You know, back in the day, youknow I could be at a dead show
on Wednesday night and a crampshow on Friday night.
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
I left.
I never liked being pigeonholedas a deadhead.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
I mean, I'm proud to carry that moniker but it wasn't
all that I listened to, likesome people really devote
everything and all to the dead.
But I was into the punk scenein the early 80s and you know X
and Los Lobos and the Cramps andyou know, uh, the ramones I was
(26:24):
still a little young for it, so.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
So my era was more like bad brains and and oh yeah,
them too dead can dead kennedysand sort of dead kennedys and
dks.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Sure yeah, flipper uh germs love that stuff yeah,
yeah and yeah.
And I got to say I used todrive cab for many years in
Boston and New York City and oneof my favorite passengers in my
New York years overall was JoeyRamone.
(26:53):
Picked him up late one nightdrove him around for about
almost an hour and I'll sparethe.
You know all the details, butyou know he ended up rapping
with me.
He had a big guy with him Idon't know if it was a bodyguard
or a personal assistant, but wewere driving around the East
village, the West village, andwe would make all these stops at
(27:15):
these newsstands you know, inNew York they have these 24 hour
newsstands and the other guywould get out, come back five,
ten minutes later with somemagazines and comic books.
I guess Joey was a comic bookfan so I'd be sitting in the car
with Joey and my brotherhappened to be in a seminal New
York band in the 70s called MinkDeVille, who were the house
(27:38):
band at CBGD's for a period in76-77 and my brother was with
them in 77 for about a year.
I don't know if you've heard ofMink DeVille fronted by a guy
named Willie DeVille, greatsinger sounds vaguely familiar,
but not real familiar.
No but that would have been like.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Talking Heads are playing there Bad.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Boys is playing there came out of that same scene,
the same scene as the Talkingheads and ramones and television
and uh and uh, blondie, uh,yeah, so it was that same scene.
But will mcdonald was a littlemore r&b, a little more 50s,
early 60s style r&b.
Um, great singer, he's nolonger with us, unfortunately.
(28:20):
He he passed away about.
I think it's about 15 years agonow, but I mentioned that to
Joe.
And he goes oh man, man.
I meant to feel sure you know.
And he said what else are youinto?
I said, well, you know I'm abig deadhead, you know, really,
like the dead he goes.
Oh the dead.
You know, I saw them at theFillmore.
I saw them at the Fillmore andyou know they were really cool.
(28:40):
I liked them.
That's all I got out of it.
But you know, to hear thatcoming out of Jody Ramone was
pretty cool.
You wouldn't expect, but youknow, he's a New Yorker.
He grew up, you know, as ateenager in the late 60s, 70s
and I'm sure he went to a bunchof shows at the Fillmore.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, I'm sure, yeah, yeah, I'm sure, yeah.
What's the best show?
What stands out as the most funtime best show you saw.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
That has to be Lewiston, maine, september 6th
1980.
It was the last show of thattour, that summer tour, and it
was an outdoor show, probably,I'm guessing, 20, 25 000 people
at the main state fairgroundsand for some reason I've seen
them in maine a few times afterthat.
(29:32):
They always put on great showsin maine.
I don't get it, but this showyou know I was recording.
I was right beside thesoundboard, I I dropped some
acid, I had a really nice tripbut made one of the best
recordings of my dead tapingcareer and it was a long show.
You know, typically in thosedays a dead show was about two
(29:54):
90 minute cassettes.
This was closer to three.
You know two and a half it wason three cassettes, it was like
two and a half cassettesthereabouts and that's widely
circulated and widely thought ofas a great show for those of us
that were there.
But if you listen to it.
The second set was monstrous,you know.
I'm sure it's up there atarchive and it's out there.
(30:16):
I don't think they had a goodenough board recording to
release it officially.
I think there were somescrew-ups or something along the
line.
But I again, I have myrecording and I was right there
at the soundboard with my mics.
You know, 12 feet up in the airand great sound, despite you
(30:36):
know my mental state at the time.
And it was also LaVon Helm wason the bill and Roy Buchanan,
great, great guitarist yeah,he's a great guitarist.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Yeah so.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I was.
That was a really nice show.
This, I think, when it allboils down to it, that was my
favorite show.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
One time I finagled to get full access backstage.
It was a freshman, freshman incollege, living in a dormitory
and these two very lovely youngwomen knew you know they were
the type of people that gotbackstage passes all the time
and they said oh, you know,you're going to the show, we're
(31:15):
not going, but we know somenames that they're always on the
list.
So I went with my girlfriend atthe time and it was at a weird
place.
It was in a town calledBillerica, massachusetts, which
is about 20 miles north ofBoston, small town, suburban
town.
They were playing in what wasessentially the town's skating
(31:36):
rink, so a cinder block building.
It was put on by the Universityof Lowell, so a cinder block
building.
It was put on by the Universityof Lowell, who didn't have a
facility at the time.
So that's why it was held there.
And we went there and got thereearly, went to the side of the
building where they werechecking people for passes, got
to hear the sound check, whichis neat, and as I got closer in
(31:59):
line to the guy with theclipboard I could see over his
shoulder at the clipboard and Ididn't see any of the names that
my friends had given me.
But I did see somebody else'sname and I said, yeah, I'm Joe
Schmo.
And he said, oh, you got afriend.
And I said, yeah, her.
And he said, okay, come on in.
And it was full accessbackstage and didn't ask for an
(32:21):
ID or anything.
All these years later, I feelkind of guilty that that person
maybe showed up and didn't getin, and I'm sorry, if you're
listening, I'm sorry but,perhaps they had ID and showed
it and got in.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
But I remember the head, the large yeah, good one.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
As we're still outside, this whole contingent
of hell's angels pulls up ontheir rides through the crowd.
So we're, my friend and I, werefloating backstage and, uh, it
was really hot, it was may of 79.
And you know, we availedourselves of the buffet tables
(33:06):
backstage and didn't pushourselves, you know, to try to
meet the guys, but could smellthe good weed coming from the
curtained off area.
My friend and I were standingin the doorway, garage doorway,
and we hear this voice sayingman, it's really hot in here.
And we look over and it's BillyCrudson and he just starts
(33:27):
chatting with us.
You know he was like, oh, doyou like the show?
And then I remember meeting thisI don't want to say elderly
woman, but an older woman and wesaid, oh, are you enjoying the
show?
He said, oh, yeah, my son's abig deadhead and he had tickets
but he couldn't make it.
So he said, mom, why don't yougo?
So she came and she said Ireally liked it, but they didn't
(33:49):
play my favorite song.
We said what's that?
She said, oh, Eyes of the World.
We said, oh, that's a secondset song.
So stick around, maybe, around,maybe they'll play it, and sure
enough, they did play it Ididn't see her after that.
So I didn't know if she enjoyedit, but I ended up like kind of
walking on to the stage well,the back of the stage and I was
(34:10):
sitting on one of the anvilcases for you know, 10 minutes
or so.
It didn't sound so good there,but hey, it was cool.
But I was you know, maybe 20feet from Garcia behind him and
you know we were floating aroundbetween backstage and, you know
, front of the stage in theaudience, you know, because it
(34:30):
sounds better.
So backstage isn't all thatgreat except for the coolness of
it and the experience.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
And the free food?
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yeah, exactly, and the next day was a big outdoor
show at the University ofMassachusetts in Amherst, with
Patty Smith opening up the PattySmith Group and Roy Ayers.
But also, you know, some yearslater I was a personal assistant
(35:00):
to a formerly famous rock star.
His words, mind you, not mine.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
But have you ever heard?
Speaker 2 (35:07):
of Al Cooper.
Yes, cooper with a K, not.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Alice Cooper yeah, he played with Bloomfield.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
The Blues Project.
Yeah well, there was a SuperSession album with Mike
Bloomfield.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, that's what I'm familiar with him from and some
other things I know he's donesome other stuff oh a shitload
of other things.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
You know the Blues Project, bob Dylan's organ
player on Highway 61, revisitedBlonde Eye.
Blonde a bunch of other recordsPlayed with Hendrix, the Stones
, the who he was the stagemanager of the.
Monterey Pop Festival.
Oh wow, the who, uh, he was thestage manager of the monterey
(35:45):
pop festival.
Uh, oh, wow and uh oh,discovered leonard skinner,
signed them to his label andproduced their first three
records produced neil's laugh,grin the tubes.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
So he's got his fingerprint.
As you're saying these things,I'm like, oh yeah, I guess I did
sort of know that it's likeringing some bells.
Look him up, you'd be amazed atwhat this guy's.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
You know what he's been involved with but he lives
in the boston area and, uh,circumstances came up, he needed
a personal assistant and uh, afriend of mine had the gig prior
to me and he recommended me tohim when he was moving on and I
was with him for about a yearand a half and it was really
cool, it's basically justhanging out at his house you
(36:24):
know, four or five days a weekrunning errands, bringing him to
gigs and rehearsals andlistening to his stories.
You know of which he's got abunch, if you ever could find
the book, his book BackstagePasses and Backstabbing Bastards
.
Backstage Passes andBackstabbing Bastards.
Backstage Passes andBackstabbing Bastards.
It's a great look at the rockand roll world, you know, from
(36:47):
the perspective of somebody whowas in there deeply it's
fascinating it might be out ofprint, but if you're ever in a
used bookstore and come acrossit, it's a real good read.
In fact, one of the moreinteresting stories he told me
was in 1980 he was living inLondon and he's a night owl, you
know.
He sleeps like four hours anight.
(37:08):
So he was up at about four inthe morning or three in the
morning when the news broke thatJohn Lennon had been shot and
killed and he was I was due torecord with George Harrison the
next day.
To record with George Harrisonthe next day.
So he was going to be drivingdown to his George's estate with
(37:28):
Herbie Flowers, I believe,great bass player obsession man
mostly.
And you know they touch base inthe morning and say, well, what
do you think?
Do you think we should still gothrough with it?
And they agreed that it wouldprobably be good for George to,
you know, be with people andmake some music and get his mind
off of things.
So they did.
They drove down there, spentthe day drinking wine and
playing, making music, untilGeorge said oh boys, it's become
(37:52):
a bit sour, it's time to callit quits.
But that's you know.
Amazing that he spent the daywith you know, a beetle the day
after John was killed.
Amazing that he spent the daywith a beetle the day after John
was killed.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Paul, thank you so much for joining me.
I appreciate you being on andyou told some great stories
today.
So, yeah, thanks a lot forbeing here.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
You're welcome, Will.
Thank you for having me.
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