Terrific and Terrible Tropes

Show Notes

In this episode, we’re diving into the tropes that make our monster-loving hearts soar—and the ones that make us want to throw our books across the room. Whether it’s a grumpy/sunshine dynamic, forced proximity, or a trope that just never works for us, we’re getting to the meat about what makes a trope hit just right.

Podcast Scavenger Hunt

Can you find when we mention these topics?

• [ ] Size Difference
• [ ] Forces Proximity
• [ ] Grumpy/Sunshine
• [ ] Fake Marriage
• [ ] Retold Folklore
• [ ] Cinderella Body Horror
• [ ] Under-Hyped Tiffany Roberts Books you must try
• [ ] Defending Ruby Dixon’s Honor
• [ ] The Chosen One
• [ ] Adult Love Triangles

Authors, Books, and Other Media We Mentioned

Books & Series

• The King’s Spinster Bride by Ruby Dixon
• Ice Planet Barbarians: Honeymoon Tales by Ruby Dixon
• Bull Moon Rising by Ruby Dixon
• Jaxar: Warlord Brides by Nancey Cummings
• Five Gifts for the Blacksmith’s Wife by Lyonne Riley
• A Minotaur Tale: Being a Monster Romance for Yuletide by Kass O'Shire
• The Rake by Kass O'Shire
• Lore Olympus by Rachel Smythe (graphic novel/webcomic)
• Sugar Apple Fairy Tale by Miri Mikawa (manga series)
• Neon Gods series by Katee Robert
• A Kinda Fairy Tale by Cassandra Gannon
• Love Letters Duology by SJ Tilly
• The Belladonna Series by Adalyn Grace
• Cordon Empire by Anna Carven
• Iron Widow by Xiran Jay Zhao
• Mercenaries Series by Angela Knight (Goodreads link)
• Anita Blake: Vampire Hunter series by Laurell K. Hamilton

Underhyped Picks: Tiffany Roberts

• Dust Walker by Tiffany Roberts
• Warlock’s Kiss by Tiffany Roberts
• Kraken Series by Tiffany Roberts
• Claimed by an Alien Warrior by Tiffany Roberts

Authors

• Joanna Lindsey
• Anna Carven
• Kresley Cole
• SJ Tilly
• Cassandra Gannon
• Laurell K. Hamilton
• Ruby Dixon
• Nancey Cummings
• Lyonne Riley
• Kass O'Shire
• Rachel Smythe
• Miri Mikawa
• Katee Robert
• Adalyn Grace
• Angela Knight
• Xiran Jay Zhao
• Tiffany Roberts

Other Media

• Nosferatu (2024 film adaptation)

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Recording in progress.

EJ (00:03):
And we are back.
Oh, it's trope time y'all.
It's trope time.
Welcome back everyone to Talesfrom New York Down and the tales
today are tropes.
Let's see how much alliterationI can get into one episode.
They're trope,

Stacy (00:21):
trop, pious.
I like triple.
I'm not gonna lie.

EJ (00:28):
So yeah.
We are following up in, youknow, our recording IRL World
following up from the lastepisode immediately.
Or we were just talking aboutdefining smart.
We touched on some very specifictropes.
So if y'all haven't listened tothat episode, you should,
consider meandering back.
But don't worry.
'cause we are going to get deepinto it now.

(00:52):
And tropes I find them to beessential.
I know some people hate tropes.
They think it's a cheap way totalk about books, advertise
books, and I'm over here.
That's dumb.
Like, that sucks for you.

Stacy (01:05):
Mm-hmm.
That's stupid because I mean, ifyou pull back and look at it
from a long enough lens, there'sonly like six story shapes out
there.
So tropes are gonna happen.
So you just may as well fuckingaccept it.
Like, honestly, that's fuckingstupid.

Amy (01:21):
They're a much better marketing tool than say
combination taglines.

Stacy (01:30):
Don't ever fucking do that.
No.
Do not compare one writer toanother.
I hate that shit.
Oh, that's, it's the worstthing.
Why would you, especially whenthe

EJ (01:38):
other writers got a major fan.
Yes.

Stacy (01:41):
Because, well, it's not fair to either of them.
No.
'cause you know, the, the oneauthor is like, I've put in the
work, I've, you know, I've hadsuccess in this.
And then because it's never thejunior writer that says, I'm
just like, Sarah J Mosser, youknow, whomever.
It's always some dip shitpublishing company that does
that.
Yes.
and it's not fair to the newwriter because they're like, no,

(02:01):
I'm writing my own thing.
Like, if you as a reader wannasay, you know, in a non
derivative way, X kind ofreminded me of y And I like
that.
Like, that's entirely differentthan essentially saying that one
is interchangeable with theother Right and correct.
I hate that shit.
They do that with movies too.
I remember when the fifthelement came out and they were

(02:21):
like, it's the, it's Star Warsfor the nineties.
And it was like, fuck you.

Amy (02:26):
Oh my goodness.
No, you're better.
That's hilarious.
Honestly, you're better offlisting off a topic or like a
major subject matter and thenlisting books that apply to
that, like mm-hmm.
If you want something thatinvolves social issues, read the
Hate You Give.
Sure.
Just read Dear Justice by notDear Justice.
Well, yes, read your justice,but read Dear Martin and Dear

(02:47):
Justice by Nick Stone.
Mm-hmm.
Just, you know, list off thetitles, but don't compare the
two.

Stacy (02:54):
Well, right.
Just because you're touching onmaybe similar things does not
mean that one is derivative theother, or one is interchangeable
with the other, despite what thedumb fucks in the publishing
houses would apparently like youto believe.
The other one that always pissesme off is, and they haven't
started doing this in writingyet, but it wouldn't surprise
me, is anytime you see a moviepreview and it says, brought to
you by the producers of thisother successful thing, it's

(03:16):
like whoopy shit.
You didn't have anything to dowith the creation of it, you
just threw money at it.

Amy (03:21):
Yeah.

Stacy (03:22):
I'm just waiting for publishing houses to be like
from the publishing house thatfucked up the distribution of
this other book that you like.

EJ (03:35):
No.

Stacy (03:36):
It

Amy (03:36):
is.

EJ (03:37):
So let's into what are tropes you like, especially for
any books that you've readrecently.
And by recently, I mean, like,past year, I'm pretty open.

Stacy (03:48):
Well, like we were talking about before, I love May
a breeding kink and I mm-hmm.
And as an option of a breedingkink.
I love a surprise pregnancy.
An accidental pregnancy.
Love that.
They do too.
They're fun.
They're fun.
They can be fun.
Yeah.
Like Lillian, was it LillianLarks?
Hoarded by the Dragon?
Yes.
That was a, that, I mean, that,that's a book that'll make you
fucking cry too.
That's a good one.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

(04:08):
But that's a, that's apregnancy.
That's a good one.
I still need to read it.
It's really good.
I, I think it handled the whole

EJ (04:15):
like, pregnancy thing

Stacy (04:17):
really well.
Mm-hmm.
Well, and a lot of like, sort ofthe real life repercussions of
what happens when two people whodon't know each other are
suddenly confronted with thefact that they're going to
become parents.
Yep.
And like dealing with likechildhood trauma and that kind
of thing.

EJ (04:31):
I loved it.
That was a really good one.

Stacy (04:33):
Hey, man.
No, I get it.
that's not a light read by anystretch of the imagination.

EJ (04:36):
No,

Amy (04:37):
No, I do love Li la I'm sure she handles it with the
grace that is needed for thatsubject matter.
Mm-hmm.

EJ (04:43):
She, that, that woman does her research very clearly.
I think that's one of thereasons why she doesn't throw
out books quite as fast asothers.
Right.
Takes time.
She of reminds of Finlay Fund'cause gosh darn, We can't help
it.
We got all, we started outbecause of that.
I think that's probably fair.
We found each other because ofher discord.
So Yeah, indeed, indeed.

(05:05):
We must pay homage.
And since

Stacy (05:07):
we're, I dunno about you guys, but I'm on that fucking
discord every fucking day,multiple times a day.
So I'm a lurker would be.
It's fun.
Yeah.
I've noticed a, i I I keptmeaning to ask you that I do
like to tag you in thingswithout your permission.
I love it.
It started asking if you're okaywith it.
Okay, good.
I love it.
Same here.

Amy (05:26):
It's funny though, because sometimes I feel like Beetle,
I'll mention I have beensummoned.
Well, I'll sometimes to theothers and they're like, who?
I'm like this person.
And they're like, oh yes, thatperson.

Stacy (05:38):
yeah.
The person you do the podcastwith.

Amy (05:39):
Yeah,

Stacy (05:39):
yeah,

Amy (05:40):
Like, yeah, that person,

EJ (05:43):
it's like she lurks, but she's here.
Yes, exactly.
Uh, so yeah, I, I love the, thebreeding thing.
Uh, Size difference.
That's

Stacy (05:53):
fine.
Size, yes.
Love, love me.
Some size difference.

EJ (05:57):
And I appreciate the dynamic too where the male character is
just like, he's super big.
He's super strong.
You would think he's veryBritish, but he's actually very
gentle and Purposeful.
Like there is just somethingit's like Right.
He's, he's cautious of, Hersize.

Stacy (06:13):
Yeah.

EJ (06:13):
Yeah.

Stacy (06:14):
Oh my God, I love that.
Ruby Dixon, who of course, I,you know, it's not an episode
of, I don't bring up Ruby Dixonor SJ Sanders or Nancy Cummings.
Ruby Dixon does that really wellespecially with the Ice Point at
Barbarians, because Yes, all ofthat Kui, especially in the
first run, so before Ice Home,they're all virgins, with the
exception of like three of them.
Because there's only like twowomen of their generation,

(06:35):
basically.
they're fucking terrified.
They are going to break.
They're like, I finally got amate and I'm gonna fucking break
her.
I just know it.
And so it's very cute seeingkind of how they respond to
that.
There's also a really cute shedid the, what's she did what she
calls the honeymoon series, soit's like a, almost like a
little Oh.

EJ (06:52):
Mm-hmm.

Stacy (06:53):
Like if you buy the physical copies, their honeymoon
story is in there too.

EJ (06:57):
Mm-hmm.

Stacy (06:57):
And the one for Ioco and Kyra is absolutely hilarious
because by this point in time,she's pregnant.
They haven't had their first kidyet, and he is wrapping her ass
up in furs to go to the othercave like it's bubble wrap.
Aw.
It's so fun.
Like, he is convinced she isgonna freeze to death in the two
hours it takes to get from onecave to the next.

(07:19):
And I mean, it reminds me of theRalphie's little brother Randy
in a Christmas story.
I can't put my, yeah, we'll putit down when he get school.
Oh, I love, love, love.
Like an overprotective over thetop.
Like, you touch or you die, kindof, mm-hmm.
Definitely too.
That's one of my favorites.
Oh

Amy (07:39):
yeah.
Grumpy sunshine.
I love that.
whether it's female grumpy andmale sunshine or vice versa.
I'm down with it.
It doesn't matter.

EJ (07:47):
You could have a grumpy.
You gotta have a grumpy FMC and,and like a golden retriever
esque like hero and mm-hmm.
I'm, I'm all for it.
I, it's HI do love

Stacy (07:57):
that, but I sincerely love when it's flipped on its
head.
Mm.
Nancy Cummings did that fuckingperfectly in Jer, one of her mod
books.
Where the main female charactervan, who is like five foot
nothing, is just the grumpiestgrump that ever Grump and Jacks
are, is a seven foot tallkilling machine with a

(08:17):
personality of a goldenretriever.
And it is so fucking funny'causethere's one part in the book
where he smiles at somebody andthe mod all have terrifying
teeth.
And he smiles at a, this justthis random human, and the
human's like, ah, and like runsoff.
And he's like, but I was tryingto be friendly.
And then he looks and he seeshimself smiling in the, the
window of a shuttle and he goes,oh, I see it now.

(08:38):
Yeah.
It's really fucking funny.
It's super duper cute.
Oh, horse proximity.
Yes.
Horse proximity is delicious.
That's especially if they hateeach other.

EJ (08:49):
Especially if they hate each other.
Like I'm thinking a couple ofmonths ago when I read also Ruby
Diction full Bull Moon Rising.
Yes.
That was a pretty good one.

Amy (09:00):
I'm so behind guys.

Stacy (09:01):
Ruby Dixon touches

EJ (09:02):
Yeah.

Amy (09:03):
You'll know the two's coming out later this year,
right?

EJ (09:04):
Yes.
Oh, and a recent, I can'tremember what, it's Leon Riley.
It was a holiday one.
It's so cute.

Stacy (09:12):
that the the, the skater Five five gifts

EJ (09:14):
of the Blacksmith Wife.
Oh no.
I'm

Stacy (09:16):
thinking of, I was thinking of come on, stupid.
Cassio Shire.
She did the a holiday one too,where it was the UR and the
Nymph.
And what was that one called?
It was like something Yue.
Hang on, I gotta look it upbecause this is gonna bug me.
That was honest to God, one oflike my favorite reads of, I

(09:36):
really expected it to just belike a throwaway fluff.
Mm-hmm.
And it was so fucking touching.
And they did kind of a, sort ofA Christmas Carol.
Yeah.
Like the three ghosts.
But it's kind of a differenttake on it.
And just, you just fucking, theyare both just like this sweet,
like, they're both like, kind ofgolden retriever personalities,

(09:59):
although that one does also kindof skew a little male sunshine,
female grump.
And She's the librarian.
And of course she's the strictlibrary.
And that's a grump.
Well, but the thing that's sofucking adorable about it.
Not on Kindle Unlimited, Goddammit.
Kendall.
Go home.
Search within the store or No?

(10:20):
Actually within my library.
what the hell?
Sorry.
Okay.
What the hell?

Amy (10:28):
Hang on while

EJ (10:29):
we're waiting,

Stacy (10:30):
sorry.

EJ (10:30):
fascinating.
Arranged marriage is reallygood.
Yes.
Or

Amy (10:33):
the fake husband or boyfriend or whatever.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
A fake relationship that becomesreal.
Yeah, that's a good one too.
Yes.
I like that.
Would you say that's adjacent tothe arranged marriage kind of
sort?
I mean, something like that.
Yeah, I'd think so

EJ (10:48):
because it's connected.
if I were to make some sort ofnetwork diagram of all of these,
I would definitely connect it,

Amy (10:54):
I found

Stacy (10:55):
So it's called a Mini's tale in prose being a monster
romance for Uel tide, shades ofsanctuary.
But it's super sweet because shealso did some really cool stuff
with it where sort of the origin

EJ (11:12):
of,

Stacy (11:12):
being the nm So essentially a NPH can be born to
any people.
Okay.
But she tends to be born out ofit.
Usually it's a couple who yearnsfor a child.
Oh.
And then it will be born fromwhatever material is around
them.
So she's tech and she was bornout of marble and it's, it's,
but, but like wood ns, it wouldbe the same thing, but it's, you

(11:34):
know, there were trees aroundand it's just is really
beautiful.
That's beautiful.
And she's very lonely and keepsto herself.
And then the Ur who,

EJ (11:44):
oh no, Stacy, we lost you.

Stacy (11:47):
Stacy am I here?

Amy (11:47):
You here now.

Stacy (11:49):
You were, you were weird glitching.

Amy (11:50):
here the whole time.

Stacy (11:51):
Very strange.
But anyway, the trope is verysweet and I just expected it to
be a meh, you know, like I'mgonna read it'cause I like the
author and you know, I like aChristmas story.
But it was, this was so, thiswas so fucking adorable
actually.
It really was.

Amy (12:09):
The way you're talking about how the nymphs were
formed, that actually makes methink of an anime.
I know this is not what we'retalking about, but it reminds me
of Sugar Apple fairytale,because that's actually how
fairies are created in thatworld, basically.
Oh, cool.
Mm-hmm.
And that's all it takes.
I'm like, that's cool.

Stacy (12:28):
Well, and that's the thing that was so neat about it
is her parents are dwarves.
they all, there's this wholecity in like under the mountain
basically.
And they just really, really,really wanted children.
the funny thing too is like, herparents aren't really together.
Like they didn't have a goodmarriage, but she's like the
best thing that either of themever created and they could see

(12:50):
in the wall of their home, thisshape in the stone that looked
like a baby.
And at first it was just anoutline.
And then it became more and moredeveloped.
And then the last thing that youdo to they did to bring her to
life was the last little chip tofree her from the mountain.
And then she was a baby and wasalive basically.
So it's very, very sweet.

(13:11):
That was very fairytale esque.
And she's really good at, whichis another trope that I really
like, is when you take maybelike a bit of common.
Commonly known mythology orsomething like that, and kind of
reinterpreted or, or standing onits head.

EJ (13:24):
Mm-hmm.

Stacy (13:25):
Because I'm reading her, her latest book, the Rake, and
it's an orca shifter, althoughreally, he's a human who's just
figured out how to become ashapeshifter And they, she's
taken the concept of the selfiewife, you know, where it's like
a fisherman steals her pelt

EJ (13:40):
mm-hmm.
And

Stacy (13:41):
has it, keeps it locked away.
And then eventually she regainsher pelt and escapes him.

EJ (13:45):
Fascinating.

Stacy (13:46):
Because she's a seie who's taken captive by the
Patian Empire, which are the badguys in the Shades of Sanctuary
stories.
He's a high elf.
He's got her pelt and he can dowhatever he wants, whether,
because he has her pelt.
And so the worst thing that canhappen is somebody can bleed on
your pelt, because when thathappens, then you're bound to
them permanently.
And so his threat to get her todo anything is I'll bleed on

(14:09):
your pelt if you don't stop it.

Amy (14:11):
Wow.

Stacy (14:11):
And so she manages to escape.
It's a really good read.

Amy (14:14):
Oh my goodness.

Stacy (14:16):
I love a retold fairytale.
Especially if they do it well.

Amy (14:19):
A retold fairytale.
A retold myth.
Just retold.
Mm-hmm.
Retellings are great whenthey're, when they're.

Stacy (14:26):
Well, I mean, think about the popularity of Laura Olympus,
like the reason why that, youknow, that's a classic example
of a, you know, it's a, you'retaking the, the, mythology of
Greece, And turning it on on itshead the reason why everybody
loves Laura Olympus is becauseyou've taken what we've already
known and now, you know, puttingyour own spin on it, making it
interesting, giving it acompelling backstory, et cetera,

(14:49):
et cetera.
So

Amy (14:51):
yeah.

Stacy (14:52):
Yeah,

Amy (14:52):
doing the modern spin also is really fascinating.

Stacy (14:55):
Well, and yeah,'cause there's a, oh shit, who was it
that wrote me on Gods KatieRoberts.
Katie Robert, Yeah.
That's another one where she'staken the mythology and put it
on its head, basically like, andcome up with its own, with kind
of her own interpretation.

Amy (15:09):
fairytales too.

Stacy (15:11):
Amy.

Amy (15:12):
Also Disney fairytales.

Stacy (15:14):
Yeah, this is

Amy (15:15):
true.

Stacy (15:16):
Technically up.
Yeah.
Like, you know how many peoplewould be horrified if you told
'em that in the originalfairytale Ariel dies?

Amy (15:23):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or that Cinderella's twostepsisters lost a toe on a heel
and Yeah.
Mu mutilated their feet.

Stacy (15:30):
Yeah.
Another really great example ofthat is the kind of fairytale
stories by Cassandra Gannon,which I am deeply in love with.
The first one is wicked, ugly,bad.
And essentially what it is, isshe takes the bad guys of the
fairytales and gives them, likeretells it and gives them the
happily ever after.
So the first book is a retellingof Cinderella from the ugly

(15:51):
stepsister's perspective, butwe've also got Little Red Riding
Hood and the big bad Wolf mixedin there.
And her second one is a Beautyand the Beast retelling and it's
beast in shining armor, I think.
And that's a really fucking goodone.
That's another one too, whereit's great, like it's enemies to
lovers force proximity.
And also kind of a faded matething because the, the premise

(16:13):
she has is that in thesekingdoms there's capital G, good
people and capital B.
Bad people and bad people knowtheir significant other on site,
whereas good people only knowtheir, their significant others
after they have sex with'em.
And, but there's a lot of likesocial injustice because like
entire races are quote unquotebad.
So it's not because you're a badperson who does bad things,

(16:35):
you're born bad.
So it's sort of an analog forlike racism and stuff like that.
She also Cinderella in the firstbook is horrible.
They don't make her clean.
She has a cleaning fetish andalso Cinderella's mice are
anthropomorphic seven foot tallrats who fuck her while she
cleans, and it is fuckinghilarious.

(16:55):
Robinhood is the worst kind offuck boy in that book and gets,
definitely gets what's coming tohim.
And then there's what is it?
Happily Ever Wicked.
And that's the Wicked Witch.
And this dragon bad guy end upteaming up together and just
destroying Wonderland.
It's, they're really fun, reallyfunny books.

EJ (17:17):
these, they do sound hilarious.

Stacy (17:20):
but really takes the fairytale trope and spins it.
That's a good one.
Very effectively.

EJ (17:26):
Do you think there's any underrated tropes out there?

Stacy (17:29):
I think that depends on your personal perspective.

EJ (17:32):
Yeah.
Like in the last episode we weretalking about kissing cousins.

Stacy (17:35):
I think that's just a genre that you have heard that's
out there,

EJ (17:38):
I'm okay with definitely if it's underrated, I'm okay with
it being underrated.
Right.
That's my

Stacy (17:43):
Definitely on the erotica and rather than the romantic
end.
Well that was the kiss of deathfor the longest time with
Amazon.
'cause if you got banished tothe erotica dungeon, then you
couldn't advertise for your bookand your book didn't pop up in
GIS searches.
Unless you were specificallylooking for that book title in
that author.

EJ (18:02):
So annoying.
Complete bullshit is what it is.

Amy (18:06):
Well, I mean, it's because they're trying to compare
erotica to porn and it's notExactly.

Stacy (18:11):
is turn on safe search,

EJ (18:12):
Mm-hmm.

Stacy (18:13):
Just put something in that takes into account the age
of the person using it andthrottle what they're, they have
access to if they're a minor.
I'm an adult, I don't need youtelling me what I can and can't
read.
Precisely.

Amy (18:24):
Get over

Stacy (18:25):
yourself.

EJ (18:25):
Amazon, there are some tropes that I, I mean, so, okay,
so this is where like I get intothe world of like, is this a
motif or actually a trope?
So specifically I'm thinking ofMonster Romance world things
like horns, claws, tentacles,ha.

Stacy (18:48):
Yeah, I think that's more of a trait.
The flavor of your trope,basically.
the mod fell books that I'vementioned several times are all,
they're alien, but the San Modfell are seven feet tall, purple
and have horns.
And the reus mod fell are sevenfeet tall, red, they're
essentially space works withscorpion tails.

(19:10):
I would still put that under theheader of like faded me mail
order mm-hmm.
Of sometimes forced proximity.

Amy (19:17):
Mm-hmm.

EJ (19:18):
Because I know like in like the very niche monster romance
world, like the like point, likereally playing up different
aspects of the, the non-humanpeople in the books mm-hmm.
Could be like, they're, they're,they're kind of selling points

(19:39):
in some places.
Like I'm over here thinking oflike using, that's, that's,
yeah.
Monster fuckers.
Yeah.
I'm over here thinking of like,you know, using horns as
handlebars Yeah.
Sort of thing.

Stacy (19:49):
That's where the monster fucker comes in.
That is, yeah.
Feathers.

EJ (19:52):
Mm-hmm.

Stacy (19:53):
Feathers.
Yeah.
Tentacles like.
That's a big selling point inTiffany Roberts' Kraken series,
is that they have little tinytentacles at the base of their
penises that are designed forstimulation.

EJ (20:08):
That is actually really fun.

Stacy (20:09):
books.

EJ (20:10):
I like, we're having a

Stacy (20:10):
discussion on Tiffany Roberts books that will gut you.
Cough, cough, dust walker.
Cough, cough.

Amy (20:16):
And

Stacy (20:17):
If you want another Tiffany Roberts book that will
gut you read the Last Krakenbook, because they go into the
history of one of the firstKraken couples and I ugly cried
reading it with Luke and her.

EJ (20:33):
I will add those in, in the notes if nothing else.
So.
Oh, you should, they'reexcellent.
So particularly masochisticreaders could be like, I too
want to be gutted, right.
And flirty.

Stacy (20:44):
I wanna hurt myself in ways that I didn't know I could
be hurt.

EJ (20:48):
Oh, no.
Dust Walker.
Have you read that one yet?
Dust Walker isn't by Tiffany.
Nope, no's Dusk Walker.
Oh, sorry.

Stacy (20:54):
Dust Walker is a post-apocalyptic,

EJ (20:57):
Sorry.
I was hearing And DK

Stacy (20:58):
dusk for some reason.
Well, I mean, those are prettyfucking similar sounds in back,
so they're very similar.
I think that's understandable.

Amy (21:08):
I think the dust walker books are a little bit under,
they're under hyped.

Stacy (21:14):
One, it's, well, it's one of their earlier ones.
Another one that I think doesn'tget enough love is the Warlocks
kiss.
That's another really good one.

Amy (21:20):
Mm-hmm.

Stacy (21:21):
That for whatever reason just didn't blow up the same
way, like the bricks and thingslike that did.
So yeah.
Maybe because they wereone-offs, they didn't become
like a series.
Mm-hmm.
Or at least haven't become aseries yet.
I thought I heard that she was,or that, that they were planning
another book in the warlockskiss setting, which is really
cool because the backgroundsetting for that is so cool and

(21:42):
creepy.
There's a whole thing where wecan confirm that ej

EJ (21:46):
Hmm.

Stacy (21:46):
Oh yeah.
You guys should yeah.
And also tell them that we wantMel Zoe's best friend to get her
own book.
Anyway, there was a, they weretalking about that for like a
hot second and then we're like,no, we're probably not gonna do
it.
And I'm like, no, no, no.
That is such a no no,

Amy (22:04):
because Mel was such a good character.
I know.
And I, even though she washardly in the

Stacy (22:07):
book, she was very, I want her to go Right.
I want her to go looking for Zoeand end up finding like, one of
Red's people finds her orsomething.
Or, or there's a whole other,species, of Alien out there.
Like, whatever, I want Mel andZoe to be back in one another's
lives.

Amy (22:23):
I would not mind it if it was another Ren Dash's people,
because then they'd be back onthe same planet

Stacy (22:30):
Well, and then, plus Ren Dash's people, the Alleg are
awesome.
And I would love to see anotherexample of them, whether they're
a member of the Warrior Elitelike he is or not.

Amy (22:41):
Yeah.

Stacy (22:44):
So anyway I don't know if it's just because those were
like one-offs, if it's becausethey're earlier in their writing
career.
Although their first books, the,it's like the Forbidden Aisle or
something like that.
Like their first handful ofbooks are still very popular
too.
but work books are weird.
Books are weird.
Yeah.
Is really good.
And so is Dust Walker.

(23:05):
It's just, you know, you'll readthe End of Dust Walker, the
epilogue and you'll ugly cry.
Amazing.

Amy (23:12):
It's amazing to see how one series will make an author
really take off.

Stacy (23:20):
Yeah.
Even if they've written, that'slike the whole thing so much.
Well, it's like the whole thingthough, when Ruby Dixon blew up
where everybody was like,newcomer Ruby Dixon.
And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa,whoa.
Fuck Ed.
Like newcomer to you.
I was reading Ice PlantBarbarian before the TikTok blow
up, and I think she had almostthe entire, you know, she had to

(23:42):
have had the fir the entirefirst well, maybe not, maybe she
was still writing the lastcouple of,'cause she was writing
Ice Plant Barbarian and Ice Homeat the same time.
But yeah, ice Home haddefinitely already happened.
And that's like the sort of thesecondary spinoff set up for
Iceland Barbarians.
and her Dragon books.
She's, I think she startedwriting those before the Ice

(24:02):
Planet Barbarians books.
And there were several of thoseout when she blew up on TikTok.
Yeah.

EJ (24:06):
Remember.

Stacy (24:07):
I,

EJ (24:07):
I binged.

Stacy (24:08):
I

EJ (24:08):
binged,

Stacy (24:08):
I was so mad when I read Bounce of The Battle of God
because I had assumed, becauseat that point in time, I was
just working my way through herback catalog.
I assumed like all of her otherstuff, I had like 20 books in
the series that I could read.
And it was the only one at thetime when I read it.
And I'm just like, I'm thecliche of like the person
standing in the storm screamingthe rage to the sky because

(24:29):
there wasn't another aspect, ananchor book for me to read.
But it's the same thing withTiffany Roberts.
Like, they didn't really blow upuntil the Brick series blew up
on, on book talk.

EJ (24:39):
Yeah.

Stacy (24:39):
Like, they were doing fine.
I think they were already NewYork Times bestsellers by that
point in time.
I think you're right.
But they weren't as well knowneven in the indie romance as
they are now.
Mm-hmm.
Until that happened.

Amy (24:53):
Yeah.
I had definitely seen the Krakenbooks before

Stacy (24:56):
right.
And the Infinite City books werepopular too.

Amy (24:59):
Mm-hmm.
What tropes you don't likemiscommunication or something?
Like I just, yeah.
If it's just annoying becauseYeah.
if they can land it Right.
Not, why are you not talking?
Right is someone gonna blow upif you

Stacy (25:15):
Right.
Like SJ Tilly wrote two booksthat it's the Love Letters Do
duology, technically that'scalled the Tetrology.
Did you know that?
Anyway called, the first one'scalled Love ly, and the second
one is Dear Rosie.
And those are miscommunication,but it's the kind of thing where
it wasn't like they had a bigfight and one person stormed

(25:37):
out.
It's that a situation wasmisinterpreted and like 20 years
goes by and then they have achance second encounter.
And then under the course of it,like,'cause like the first book
is a, it starts out as a collegeromance.
This romance is really goingsomewhere.
The main character's mother hasa stroke.
So she has to drop out to gohome and take care of her

(25:59):
mother.
And she leaves a letter for themain male character and a third
party intercedes and destroysthe letter.
So she thinks he doesn't care.
He thought she just dipped.
And so it's not until years andyears and years later when
they're both in their latethirties that they have a chance
re-encounter and then the entirestory is revealed.

(26:21):
it turns out it wasn't becauseeither of them was being an
asshole, it was because anasshole interceded and kept them
apart basically.
Mm-hmm.
And then in the second booktheir childhood best friends and
he moves and he leaves her aletter with his address to write
to him, and she writes to himand he had accidentally written
the address wrong.

(26:42):
Mm-hmm.
And so her letter got returnedto her.
And so again, it's amiscommunication, but it's not a
storming out in high dungeon andI refuse to talk to you.
Yeah.
Like it's third party thingsthat happen that are outside of
their control basically.

Amy (26:54):
so if it's something like that, I can hang with it.
Yes.
That totally makes sense.
But I'm talking about likethey're still within proximity
to each other.
They're not, they're just nottalking.

Stacy (27:03):
Right.
That's every romance novel weread in the eighties and
nineties.
Like there had to be, and I saythis in capitalization, the big
miscommunication, like JoannaLindsay was the queen of that.

Amy (27:13):
Hmm.

Stacy (27:14):
Where somebody misheard something and then, you know,
for the last third of the book,they don't talk to each other
until, the last 50 pages.

Amy (27:22):
The, it's because I'm seeing it in at least one series
that I'm currently reading.
Oh, really?
not at this point in time, but Idon't want to say what series it
is because that's

Stacy (27:33):
You don't wanna blow up anybody's spot, especially if
you haven't finished it.

Amy (27:36):
Yeah.
Basically there's, you've gotthe two main characters, the,
the, the female main character,the male man character, and
mm-hmm.
They just cannot, I mean,granted, I understand because
there's the boss employeedynamic there too, but it's
just, ugh, I'm, I'm gonna gointo more detail just with

(27:59):
y'all, because like I said, Ireally don't wanna bring any,
anything down.
Sure.
They're negative sort of becausethey're, they're good, they're
good Outside of this wholemiscommunication shenanigans,
and although I will say I wasdisappointed to learn that it's
going to be a quartet instead ofthe trilogy, oh God, I

Stacy (28:17):
I have become of the opinion that if the book series
isn't finished, I'm not readingit.
if it focuses on, like it can bean unfinished pairing if.
It's different characters, eachbook, you know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah.
So like for example, TiffanyRoberts is the Infinite City.
Like it's not the same couple inthe entire run.

(28:37):
Then I don't mind.
But if it's the same couple, I'mnot, first of all, I can handle
two even three books.
I just don't really feel likethere's anything that goddamn
interesting that I need to seein the fourth fucking book.

Amy (28:49):
Or even more than that, Stacy.

Stacy (28:52):
Yeah.
there was one that I was curiousabout and I was looking at it
and it was literally, I think itwas like six books in and it
still wasn't done.
And I was just like, nah, man.
Godspeed, but I'm gonna givethis one a pass.

Amy (29:04):
See, this is why that's, that's just too

Stacy (29:05):
much.

Amy (29:06):
This is my thing with Trilogies.
Why even if I'm really eager toread Book one, I have stopped, I
will hold off until Book two.
Is out before I read book one.
And then if I like it, I willcontinue into book two.
Sometimes I'll book free isalmost out.
Or even with the Bella DonnaTrilogy last year, because I

(29:26):
knew the third one was comingout.
So I'm like, okay, now this isthe year that I will read these
books.
And I did, I enjoyed them.
Yes.
We're getting a bonus novella atthe end of this year, but it's
bonus content.
The main story is.

Stacy (29:40):
Yeah.
Well, and again, like I love theidea of I really like this world
building, let's play around init.
Or there's even cases of,there's a writer I like, I
cannot think of her name off thetop of my head.
She was one of the first alienromances I really got into.
But her book series, God,there's gotta be like 20 books
in that series.
And for the most part, the firstthree books were the main

(30:02):
character, but they were short.
And it made sense because therewas kind of an overarch that
came to a conclusion at the endof the third book.
And so now it's like, let's seewhat they're doing now.
I like stuff like that becausethere's been enough time to pass
that you're like, oh, I'mcurious about this.
I'm curious about that.
Anna Carvin does that a lot toowith her Cordon Empire theories
where you go back to the maincouple after however many books.

(30:25):
I like stuff like that because Ifeel like it's a revisit rather
than you just won't end thegoddamn story.
Mm.
Okay.
That that is fair.

Amy (30:32):
I don't mind that, but

Stacy (30:33):
yeah.

Amy (30:34):
Trying to But but what you're talking about, yeah.
I think trying to stretch outone book into two or two books
and three, it drives me.
Absolutely.
Or five.
Yeah.

Stacy (30:43):
Same, hard, same.
It's just like, what do you haveto say that's so fucking
interesting that I should.
Put this much of my time intothese characters.
Oh,

EJ (30:52):
very rarely.
Mm-hmm.
there's almost

Stacy (30:55):
always when it's like that it, there's almost always a
political piece, and I don'tlike that political.
I got enough of that in reallife.
I don't need it in my fuckingspot.

EJ (31:03):
Some writers really need to be sat down and explain, listen,
Shakespeare had it right.
Brevity is the soul of Wayne,right?

Amy (31:12):
Mm-hmm.
Definitely

Stacy (31:13):
get an editor.

Amy (31:14):
I think some of them are just not given editors.

Stacy (31:18):
Yeah.
Well, yeah, and I mean, ifthey're, especially if it's an
indie writer, then indiewriters, I can forgive.
You have to lot more than like,let's say, yes, I can A big, so
like an indie writer.
Yeah.
I can forgive.
Like, okay.
Like maybe like there's somemisspellings or homonyms are
used instead of the correctword.
but when it's a case of like,you could have cut 20 pages out

(31:39):
of this chapter, then that'swhen it becomes problematic
because at that point in time,it's like, I'm bored.
I shouldn't have to fight tofinish.
To read your book.

EJ (31:46):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.

Stacy (31:47):
If I'm fighting me to finish your book, odds are high,
I'm gonna lose because even if Ilose, I still win.
Right.
You know, and so this thingwhere like there was an author
that she, she started withSci-Fi Romance and I really
liked her sci-fi romance.
And then she switched out intosort of paranormal thriller

(32:07):
romance.

EJ (32:08):
Hmm.

Stacy (32:09):
And it was good, it was well paced, but it was another
one of those where I think ittook four or five books to be
finished.
And it was like, it just turnedinto like politics and politics
and the character finding outthat she has X, y, and Z powers.
And I just, I'm just notinvested in that.
You know, like, I don't wannaread about the faded one if I'm

(32:33):
not reading young adult.

Amy (32:34):
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
There you go.
That's a trope.
That's a trope that can be veryannoying is the faded one.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You gotta be so careful with thefaded one.
And, and speaking of wi of otherYH usually it's found mostly in
ya, but sometimes it gets intoadult love triangles.

Stacy (32:51):
triangles are bullshit.

Amy (32:53):
Like,

Stacy (32:53):
please.
Or if you're gonna have a lovetriangle, resolve it before the
end of the book.

Amy (32:56):
Yeah.
Or make it an actual equilateraltriangle.
Mm-hmm.
So what's the point?

Stacy (33:01):
Yeah.
Right.
Well, and it's just a.
It's low hanging fruit.
Like, it's, it's, it's the easy,it's an easy way to create drama
and I'm not interested in lowhanging fruit.
I can go out and pick lowhanging fruit myself.
Seriously.
I don't need somebody to do itfor me.

Amy (33:15):
No.
Or at least make it a why chooselike Iron Widow.
Ooh, spoiler alert.
Yes.

Stacy (33:24):
Yeah, I mean, the pretty open about that.
Like, I follow her on, onInstagram and she's pretty open
about the fact that it's areverse harem.
Sort of Is it, is it reverse oris it technically It's
technically a, a a

EJ (33:36):
a

Stacy (33:36):
a

EJ (33:36):
triad.
Yeah.

Stacy (33:37):
Mm-hmm.

EJ (33:38):
You know, simultaneously trope that I'm getting tired of
turned into trope I would loveto see is billionaire romance.
Yeah.

Stacy (33:48):
real life billionaires have just fucking ruined that
for me.

EJ (33:51):
Right, right.
Yes.
So I feel like the billionaireromance trope, like I feel like
they need to be made into like,you need like a proper like
reformed Yeah.
Billionaire.
Yes.
For feel, feel like billionairesnow need to be treated as sort

(34:11):
of,'cause they are like.
Reformed criminals.
Socio reformed

Amy (34:17):
antagonist.

EJ (34:18):
Yes.
Reformed antagonist.
Boom.
There we go.
That's the word, Amy.
Thank you.
Learns how to be a fucking humangains empathy.
Yes.

Stacy (34:26):
Yes.
Realizes they're not magicallyspecial.

EJ (34:30):
Simply because they have a lot of money.
Obscene amount of wealth.
and I want the like, wow, I'm aterrible person or I am stuck in
a terrible system.
I want them to pull some realpillars down.
Not the whole like, and now mybeloved, we shall escape to the
countryside and never have todeal with the realities and ever

(34:50):
again.
I want to I will tear down thistemple of greed for you by love.
Thank you.

Stacy (34:56):
other thing too, so there's a way that you can do it
where, because Billionaire andDark Romance does, like, there's
a lot of overlap there.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
And there's a book I really likethat I don't think either of you
would enjoy because it'sstraight up non-con at for at
first.
And it's one of my rare foraysinto contemporary.
I'm not gonna list the authorbecause I don't like any of her

(35:20):
other books.
This is like a one off.
And I don't want be like, fuckwas a Fuck.
Yeah.
Kind of.
It's a fluke.
And it's not that she's badwriter.
Yeah.
Pretty much.
Like, it's not that she's a badwriter, it's just she commits
like one of the cardinal sins ofmy own personal.
Reading structure and that'sthat she'll have two characters
together in their own book, andthen she'll break them up in a

(35:40):
later book and like permanentlybreak them up.
And I'm not done for that.
Yeah, that's a deal breaker.
Don't blame you anyway.
So, but this book, he is anamoral sociopath, but he's
fascinated with her.
And so the way that she kind ofcircumnavigates that, rather
than him having a completelyunbelievable, you know, suddenly

(36:00):
grows empathy, which that's notgonna happen is basically she
sort of makes his desire toplease the main character, the
sort of social like, like sortof handle like on how to, how to
control some of his behaviors.
So like he ends up killing a guywho sexually assaulted her,

(36:22):
which I don't have any problemswith that.
And then he buys the house thatthe guy had lived in and is
trying to figure out what to dowith the property and he ends up
turning it into a cat rescuebecause she likes cats.
So I can see something like thatwhere if you wanna keep them as
the sociopath, because let's behonest, you have to be a
sociopath, become a billionaire,but make it where it's like the

(36:44):
significant other is his oneweakness, who is an A sociopath
and is going to try and createsomething good.

Amy (36:51):
Okay.

Stacy (36:51):
that,

Amy (36:51):
I could see

Stacy (36:51):
that.

Amy (36:52):
I could see that.

EJ (36:52):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I hear that.

Stacy (36:55):
one Kressley Cole actually has a contemporary
erotic romance trilogy, the gamemaker trilogy, that's also good.

Amy (37:03):
Hmm.

Stacy (37:04):
It kind of comes under that same heading Russian Mafia
and then just going into justlike the obscenely wealthy and
like what, you know, how some ofit'cause can be used for good.
'cause like in one of them it'sthe classic, the billionaire and
the call girl, except she's notreally a call girl.

EJ (37:23):
Mm-hmm.

Stacy (37:23):
And he thinks she's a professional and it's this whole
thing where she's like, excuseme, like helping him to
diversify his real estateportfolio.
'cause she went to school forlike real estate business
management.
And is explaining like, howabout you buy up low income
housing, keep it low income, butturn it into good low income

(37:46):
housing and explaining why.
Like, you'll have a consistent,you won't have super high
turnover.
it makes you look good.
You could probably use it as taxwrite off.
Like she goes through andexplains all of that.
And again, it's a morerealistic, like you are super
rich and don't understand whatit's like to be cold and
starving.
But I do, so let me use my lensto help you focus your wealth,

(38:09):
basically.

Amy (38:09):
Imagine the idea of basically creating a community,
buying out this entireneighborhood that is in need of
serious work, doing the work toimprove that area, and then
allowing those in need, right?
And not just turning into agentrified nightmare, right?
Yes.
Being able to afford it and livethere with their families and

(38:31):
whatnot.
And I'm just like, it's, andjust, you know, work on
maintaining it too.
That's the other thing.
Just work on maintaining it.
Yep.

Stacy (38:40):
Yeah.
See that's what La landlordclasses want you to believe they
are, but in reality, what theyare is parasites.

Amy (38:47):
Yes, We know that.
And I hate it.

Stacy (38:49):
Hate, but part of the reason why she made that, that
statement to him in the book isbecause she had lived in this
one shitty property that he waslooking at, and it was this
like, this vert who of a super,who was like sneaking into like
women's units and like sexuallyassaulting them or trying to
blackmail them into sexualfavors in exchange for help with

(39:10):
their rent.
Like that kind of stuff.
So again, it was drawing from areal life for that, for the main
female character, real lifeexperience to, you know, remind
the billionaire of how to be afucking human.
Hmm.
There's also a scene in thatbook where the bride to Be's
mother has given Molly and it'sfucking hilarious at the

(39:33):
wedding.
That does sound hilarious.
It was really fucking funny.
I was trying to give her anAtivan, but I accidentally gave
her Molly, I mean the bride'smother does licking her husband
and she's chill too.
Well, she starts licking her.
The, the mother-in-law startslicking her, the mother-in-law's
husband in the middle of ofservice.

(39:53):
It's pretty funny.
Starts licking his cheek.

Amy (39:57):
It's really funny.

Stacy (39:59):
It's really funny.
Yeah.
But that's a really, really goodseries too, if you want a
readable That's also one thatinterestingly has an orgy scene
without straying into why chooseterritory.
It was very well done.
There's a sex scene in the firstbook

EJ (40:22):
that is

Stacy (40:22):
super duper hot.

EJ (40:24):
Yeah, yeah.
And in fact, actually come tothink of it, I think I would
like to, I do love when thereis, this is adjacent to the orgy
thing.
I kinda love when A-B-D-S-M clubor sex club is visited.
Fun.
And that's exactly what it isactually.
Yeah.
That's kind of fun, honestly.
Mm-hmm.
I agree.

(40:45):
And I don't know what it isabout.
It just does it for me.

Stacy (40:49):
It's hot.
Well, it, there's kind of thatlike permission to be sexual.
Yeah, yeah.
Like we're all doing it.
You're not gonna offend somebodybecause this is a space that's
specifically set up to be sexualin, so you don't have to worry
about, like, it's one of, so oneof the things that has always
driven me nuts in my quest tofind what I'm suspecting is my
non-existent, significant otheris, you know, I'm, I'm on fe

(41:13):
life mm-hmm.
Because I'm into BDSM.
Mm-hmm.
And so many of the guys that Ihave talked to have really been
excited by the idea of publicsex.

EJ (41:22):
Hmm.

Stacy (41:23):
And I'm like, I get the idea.
Yeah.
I get the idea of it, but thereality of it is, is I would
never do that because you don'tknow if there's like a kid
that's gonna turn the circle.
Yeah.
Or, or turn the corner.
And I don't like, because forthem I think it's, it's the
thrill of almost getting caught.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And my thing is, is I've beenflashed before, like having
someone thrust their sexualityupon you, especially when you're

(41:45):
just living your day-to-day lifeis horrible.
It's really fucking horrible.
Or like, I can remember one timebeing at the beach with Cindy
and this couple were having sexon the beach and it was just
like, nice fucking creeps nice.

Amy (41:59):
happen in Paris while we were on a Nice little cruise on
the sand.
And it's like, you know, we'reall a bunch of high school
students and they thought it's agood opportunity to, you know,
take the kids out.
Got an eye full of people thatare just really going at it on
the shores of the sand.
Right.
Got an eye full of uncircumcisedFrench dick.
Yeah.
Something like that.

(42:20):
Just like you, you could tellshe re she really got into it
because she arched ineverything.
It's like, wow.
Oh my.
Well, I mean, at least

Stacy (42:28):
she was with somebody who knew what he was doing, I guess.
But the idea of like A-B-D-S-Mclub or a sex club means that
like, it's okay if like, I musthave you now I'm gonna take you
up against this wall and peopleare gonna watch and that's okay
because those people are thereto do that.

Amy (42:42):
Well, yeah.
That's also, I would say thatwould count as in public too,
because it's in That's right.

Stacy (42:47):
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
it's not a private we at homespace.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
So yeah, I think that wouldqualify.
It's like a designated,designated a designated space.
Yeah.

Amy (42:57):
That there would not be any children there.

Stacy (42:59):
Right.
And you don't have to worryabout the cops showing up and
arresting you and you getting anindecent exposure charge.

EJ (43:04):
Right.
Before you know it, you're onlike the list with all the other
social predators Right.
On someone's

Amy (43:10):
Which you didn't deserve to be on the list.
Exactly.

Stacy (43:13):
in the first place.

Amy (43:14):
This actually reminds me of mercenaries, which is a trilogy
of novellas that Angela Knightdid.
And'cause she was actually myforay into actual paranormal
romance after outside of theAnita Blake books.

Stacy (43:28):
Anita Blake was a gateway for a lot of people.

Amy (43:30):
Oh yes.
I think you're right.
But the second novella actuallydeals with an alien people that,
by the way, they all look human.
Don't they always?
Yes.
at least from the nineties andearly two thousands.

Stacy (43:42):
see, to be fair, I feel like monster fucking is like a
progression.
Yes.
Because when I started readingit, I was like, okay, you know,
it's okay.
The kui like, basically lookedlike people just with horns in,
they're blue.
And now I'm like, sense andooze, bring it the fuck on.

Amy (43:56):
But in this, on this planet, basically the royal
class has the whole dominant andsubordinate culture.

Stacy (44:04):
Mm-hmm.
Like do where the royal,

Amy (44:05):
the royals have to be dominant.
Gotcha.
And, they have actual thrallsthat they, you know, dominate.

Stacy (44:14):
But anyways, are we going for like a vampiric kind of vibe
here?

Amy (44:18):
No,

Stacy (44:18):
no van.

Amy (44:19):
how

Stacy (44:19):
do they

Amy (44:19):
Th th is in just somewhat, yeah.
I'd have to look at it.
I don't even remember if I stillhave the book.
That's fair.
That's fair.
But, but anyways the, thedaughter of the, the ruler finds
that she is actually not adominant She is.
Right.
She is a subordinate and Right.
And she's, she has to put forththe act though.

(44:40):
But the funny thing is, is thatthe lieutenant from the first
story actually gets taken in asthey're, they're on a, he's on
a, he's on a secret mission orwhatever here.
And so he gets taken captive andhe is given to her as, as her
thro, but Right.
She, he's definitely more of adominant than she is.

(45:01):
Right,

Stacy (45:02):
right.

Amy (45:02):
just seeing that dynamic switch was just, it was
fascinating.
Yeah, it's called Mercenaries.
By Angela Knight.
By Angela Knight.
Okay.
Night Night with a KI
figured,
just so you know, she had another series that I actually
read where King Arthur and hisknights actually were vampires

(45:23):
and they needed witches to kindof curb their, the empiric
stuff.

Stacy (45:29):
Did the witches produce too much blood?
I don't know what it was.

Amy (45:33):
So I might have read a short story said in that.
Possibly, but master of theNight is the first one.
I'll have to check that out.
And then there were werewolvesthat got involved there too,
with Master of Wolves, butMaster of, master of Moonlight
was the second book in between.

Stacy (45:49):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I'll have to check that out andsee if that's the person I'm
thinking of.
Because she wrote a short storyin an anthology that I had that
didn't survive the fire.
And I can't remember theauthor's name and I'd been
curious to reread that book.
Hmm.
But it was a thing, and I couldswear there was something about
Knights of the round table withit and the witches, we produced

(46:12):
too much blood so that thevampires could feed on them
easily.
I think that might be what itis.
But I, and there was, it's beenso long since I read it, one of
the nights was looking for thequarter, think she was three
fourths human.
'cause her mom would've beenhalf.

Amy (46:30):
Mm-hmm.

Stacy (46:30):
And because the witches, like they're all immortal and
have like, you know, childrenover the years.

Amy (46:37):
Mm-hmm.

Stacy (46:38):
I gotta check this out now and see if that's who it
was.
Angela Knight.

EJ (46:41):
Check it out so I can add it to our notes for sure.
Because I want to like now dothe whole, like, directing to
our listeners thing because I amabsolutely going to bug people
on, Instagram and probablySubstack.
What are what are the tropesthat turn you on or turn you
off?

(47:02):
Oh.
And yeah,'cause I love hearinglike what turns

Stacy (47:05):
people's cranks and what doesn't.

EJ (47:06):
Yes.

Stacy (47:07):
I feel like

EJ (47:08):
this is a weird year.
2025 is a weird year.
We're going to like.
I think there's going to be alot of tastes that are going to
change this year.
Yeah, yeah.
The whole like, see that wholelike billionaire trope thing,
like Yeah, I think that's gonnabe out, that's like the very tip
of the iceberg.
I feel like we are in the middleof a major cultural shift.

(47:31):
But I am gonna say for

Stacy (47:32):
people out there like me who have been feeling
overwhelmed by shit, justremember there are more of us
than there are of them.
And there always fucking willbe.
Yes.
And eventually, not too longfrom now, everybody's gonna
realize that and shit's gonnachange.
And I believe it's gonna changefor the better.
Mm-hmm.
Can I say really fast?

(47:53):
One trope that I hate.
I'm really starting to be, Ithink because as I age, I am not
loving the age gap romanceanymore.
I used to be really into it whenI was younger, but now that I'm
in my forties, I'm just like,yes, yes, yes.
He's 45 and can only fucking18-year-old.
Got it.
Okay.

EJ (48:10):
That's fair.
That's too, what the hell is a45-year-old have to do with an
18-year-old?
Exactly.

Stacy (48:15):
Now age gap doesn't have to automatically be thrown away.
SJ Tilly, who I have mentionedbefore, has a really good age
gap, but the main field femalecharacter is 32.

Amy (48:24):
Yes.

Stacy (48:25):
Like

Amy (48:25):
Yeah.
So she's an

Stacy (48:26):
adult.

Amy (48:27):
Yeah.
You've got a 30-year-old andthen you've got like maybe a
silver fox and that's exactlywhat it is.
Actual or mix whatever silverdaddy.
But the other, you said Stacy,the other one Yeah.
You hear about it too much inReddit.
Yes.

Stacy (48:41):
It's basically like a dude in the midst of a midlife
crisis went shopping at hislocal nunnery for the, the
latest virgin on the market.

EJ (48:50):
Yeah.
Actually, come to think

Stacy (48:51):
She's always

EJ (48:52):
a virgin.
Course she is.

Stacy (48:55):
Oh.
King Spinster Bride.
It's actually, that's a goodprecursor.
Yes.

EJ (49:00):
And it's a good one.

Stacy (49:01):
she's like, I read one 10 years, 11 years older than he's,
yes.
Because I think she's, and it'shot.
It's awesome.
It's really hot.
I love it.
It's really good.

Amy (49:10):
I love really good.
It's the other one, she had thespecial edition cover, right?

Stacy (49:14):
I think so.
Yeah.
Just very recently.
Yeah.
She did a special release ofthat not too long ago, I
believe.
Like over Christmas orsomething.
Nice.
Yeah.
It's still available on Amazon.
I believe.
I need that.
I need all of her stuff inphysical copy, honestly.
But I love the aspects andanchors.

Amy (49:30):
Hmm.

Stacy (49:31):
I need to do a reread of that'cause I haven't sat and
read it in a minute.

EJ (49:34):
So, but in the meantime, we'd love to hear from you dear
listeners.
Please find us.
We have our little website theTales from the orc done.com.
Very clever, verystraightforward.
And of course you can find meand bug me about all the things
you like and don't like aboutthe podcast on my socials
Monster romance reviews onInstagram and Substack.

(49:58):
In the meantime, wherever you'relistening, if you could leave
some nice ratings or reviews,that would be

Amy (50:04):
awesome.

EJ (50:05):
Yes.

Stacy (50:05):
with people who are listening.

Amy (50:06):
please.
and also answer some listeners'questions too.
Oh, that would hundred percentbe very cool,

Stacy (50:11):
and we would love to hear your take on what we're talking
about.

EJ (50:14):
I don't think we have solicited much on users, but I
would love for that to change.
I think that would be fun.

Stacy (50:20):
Do we have an email, like a dedicated email address yet?

EJ (50:22):
We can make sure that there's one, we should probably
get one if we want people toreach out to us.
Ah, that's probably true.
In the meantime you can alwaysDM me, so

Stacy (50:32):
yeah, and if you're like on Finley's Discord, I'm Lemon
Witch.
And feel free to reach out tome.

EJ (50:39):
Yes, I bite, but only in the fun way between, and I just
lurk, Amy and Stacy both cansummon me like, damn
Beetlejuice.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.

Amy (50:49):
I summon Stacy all the time in there.
She does.
And I love it.

Stacy (50:56):
Well, now I'm the Beetlejuice theme stuck in my
head.
Let us get copyright.
Oh, that's true.
We're probably gonna get acopyright strike.
I better stop even if I'msinging it poorly.

EJ (51:12):
Provided that we don't get taken down for copyright.

Stacy (51:15):
Yeah, right.
Also, everybody watch knowsSferra two and tell me how
amazing it is.
And if you think he's uglycookie, I don't wanna hear it.

EJ (51:23):
We'll talk to you later, dear listeners.
So remember, embrace the DNF.

Amy (51:29):
Let go of fomo, and

Stacy (51:31):
life is too short to read writing.
Bye.
Bye y'all.