David Brabham - A supercharged story of racing success - Tales From The Top

Episode Transcript
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Lee Gray (00:01):
Welcome to Tales from the top. So many striving for
success, but how do you defineit? What's it really like and
what happens when you get them?
Join me Lee Gray, co founder ofKyron Audio creators of ultimate
home Music Systems, and my cohost Jayde Deverson, founder of
Deverson Design creators ofunique luxury environments. As
we celebrate the lives andachievements of those who dared
to dream big, and have reachedincredible heights. We delve

(00:21):
into what drives them now to newchallenges that they face and
discuss the unexpected Talesfrom the today's show we're
joined by David Brabham, motorracing legend and creator of
supercar company revenueautomotive. We'll be talking to
David about his motor racingcareer in his current venture
building fiery Brabham bt 62.

(00:41):
We'll find out just what ittakes to wind and heat of
endurance racing, and how thathas shaped the evolution rather
than automotive. Today's episodeis sponsored by us Kyron audio
and deverson design. A Kyron weenrich people's lives with music
systems that create lifelikethree dimensional images that
evoke real emotional responsesand allow our true connection to
recorded music. With ourstrategic partners, we can help

(01:03):
you create the ultimateenvironment to enjoy your Kyron
music system. From interiordesign guidance through to an
entire bespoke listening room.
We can assist you to bring yourdream to life, life is better
with music and music is betterwith Kyron.

Jayde Deverson (01:17):
deverson design creates luxury garage
environments for the discerningautomotive collector, preserving
your collection in surroundingsthat are more gallery than
garage and so enhancing thevalue of your enjoyment with
projects across Australia inEurope deverson design provides
design services worldwide, trulybespoke garages start with
inspiring designs. Let Deversondesign inspire you to get in

(01:39):
touch with one of our principlesdirectly visit our websites car
on audio.com Today you orDeversondesign.com.au To book a
consultation. And now on withthe show. David's passion for
racing was ignited at therelatively late age of 17 after
seeing a go kart during his usfactory visit with his IndyCar
racing brother Jeff from 1982David regularly won kart races

(02:02):
and a cheap secondhand cart. Helater progressed to the new Ford
laser series, and from there onto single seaters and eventually
winning the 1997 F two goldstar. After making a move to
Britain he had much success inf3 racing, with the inevitable
jump to a short but interestingstint with Formula One. Then
finally endurance racing andeven more glory is on a roll of

(02:24):
racing victories is long andincludes spa 24 hour race,
Bathurst, 1000 American Milanseries 12 Hours of Sebring, and
the three times winner of thegrueling 24 hours of Milan, just
like his world champion fatherbefore him, the late Sir Jack
Brabham, David now builds hisown racing and road going
supercars. Hello, David, andthank you for joining us. Yeah.

(02:49):
So hi, Lee J. Aiden. Great. SoI'm going to jump straight into
it.
Very interesting reading aboutyour history. So the farm
born in the UK, but coming hometo Australia in the age of five,
and growing up on the farm onthe maroon, Big River, then off

(03:09):
to a specialist agriculturalboarding school at 13. It seems
like life was pretty well mappedout for you. But I think
something what what went wrong?
What happened?

David Brabham (03:19):
Yeah, farming?
Well, yeah. Because obviously,you know, my, my family were
involved in racing, obviously,since 1948. And my brothers were
racing. AndI showed no interest as a kid, I
was more interested in playingfootball. That was my passion,
soccer. And just ridingskateboards, you know, that was
just a very simple kind of wayof describing that was my world

(03:42):
as a kid up until the age of 13,where I went to an agricultural
boarding school. And of course,all that was really designed for
us because we had a four and ahalf 1000 acre farm, sort of
between Wagga Wagga andNerandrah, on the Murrumbidgee
River. I think the family feltwell, you know, one of the one
of the boys has got to kind ofgo through and look after that

(04:03):
one day. And because I showed nointerest in in motorsport
whatsoever, I guess I was thechosen one in that sense to, to
learn about agriculture andstart working on the farm, which
is what I did.

So does that mean you're there been your
brothers were agriculture. Wereracing interested? earlier?

Are they? Well, they were there. I'm the
youngest. So they will they willracing before I even started
thinking about so it wasn't tillI as you say, I went over to
America to watch my my brotherrace, which was the first time I
really saw racing for the firsttime. Saw a go now IndyCar Yeah,

(04:49):
that was Indy cars in 82. And Iwent to a workshop which was the
first proper racing workshopthat I'd ever been in. sort of
go kart there. The guy wasworking I didn't even know
people race go karts had not aclue. And that was it. That was
the kind of start really? Yeah.

Yeah. Well, it's sort of went quite
ballistic from that point,didn't it? It sort of jumped to
go karts. And I did read thatyou didn't get any support from
from your parents in the racing,they weren't overly keen. So you
bought this cheap go kart andthen threw at the back of the
unit and went racing, withoutsupport until was Did I read

(05:30):
correctly? Your dad then poppedin and said, I better go with
you and give you a hand and thenyou just started winning
everything. Pretty much the wayit went?

Well, yeah, pretty much mean it. You know,
when I sat down with danceactually like to go in and go
cardi his face went white, youknow? Yeah. So it was like,
Well, I'm not getting anysupport there. I actually went
to a next door neighbor, who Iwent to school with in the
Agricultural College, down inWalla Walla. And I said, Hey,

(06:02):
let's go and have a little bitof go kart meeting because we
actually had a go kart weactually drove we actually built
a go kart ourselves. Yeah, thatwas at his place. And we just, I
just went over there and we'dhave fun, you know. And of
course, I love to driving. Itwasn't like I didn't like
driving. I love driving. Thatwas my big thing. I drove on the
farm flat out sideways, superdangerous. Didn't matter whether

(06:26):
it was a motorbike or tractor ora ute or whatever. It was flat
out in sideways the whole timeand I absolutely

had to Grey Massy on three wheels on
occasion.

Well, more than nearly to believe me. So I ended
up going to this go kart race,and we just fell in love with
it. And we bought we actuallybought a secondhand go kart
together, we were headed off forour very first go kart test. Dad

(06:56):
wasn't at that, you know, he hadbusinesses all over the place.
So you know, Sydney and Englandso he was traveling all the
time. He was still very heavilyinvolved in Formula One in the
background with Honda andWilliams and McLaren and you
know, you know, so he was he wasbusy so he just happened to be
there when I was heading off inthe ute with the with the go

(07:19):
kart in the back and just as Istarted it, he knocked on the
window and he said I better comewith you. So he jumped in the
ute with us and off we went andyou know there was no one there
was just us and he put a littlepiece of plastic that he found
on the ground and he'd say rightthere as you turn in point so he

(07:39):
was starting to you know give usa little few tips here and there
but yeah, I mean he could seestraight away that I could drive
and then for him it was allabout if you're serious you got
to You're serious if you're notyou're not you know you're
either in or you're out and so Istarted to do you know racing

(08:00):
with my mate we'd both rotatethe driving and the mechanic
thing he was a better mechanicand I was a better driver so it
kind of that's how it kind ofthat works well yeah so that's
how drifted drifted on and dadcame to the first race at
Griffith I ended up in hospitalbecause I was racing with a pair
of jeans and a jumper andnothing else. Yes, I rolled over

(08:25):
and my jumper came up and I wasjust grazing my back and flesh
all over the tarmac and ended upin hospital wrapped up in a
mummy and I think dad thoughtgreat that's it you see he's not
going to get back in a go kart,you know?

Yes. And I think man probably would have
been thinking the same. Oh,

my mom hated it.
Mom hated mom was a nervouswreck by that time having seen
Jack Jack go through, you know,quite serious situations with
his with his fellow drivers whopassed away on friends and so
forth and then obviously seeingher other sons racing and and
then I'm starting to race gokarts. And she just yeah, she

(09:03):
hated it. She hated it. So

Lee Gray (09:08):
It's hard enough for a mother with some kids on the
road, let alone on the racetrack. 24/7 man got a feel for
her!

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely.

So mentorship I mean, this is this is probably a
bit early but mentorship whatare you doing with with your
skills at the moment beyond theyour son, your son's racing now?
Do you mentor any other racinggroups or any other people what
what are you doing at themoment?

Yeah, so Ah, god, I gotta say when was this this
must have been middle to late2000s. I high was the sort of
sporting director of Team UK. Soteam UK is a bit like The

(10:00):
Governing Body over here at thetime was called the MSA the
motorsport association is nowcalled motorsport UK. So I ran a
young driver developmentprogram. I then took over the
rally side of it because therally side started first and
then the racing side. And thenthey brought everything
together. And I actually tookover the whole of that running

(10:22):
of the rally drivers, the racedrivers, the navigators, and put
programs together, working withpartners, who are, you know,
component suppliers to to motorsports, such as tires,
suspension, you know, shockabsorbers, gearboxes, engines,

(10:43):
designers, and start to educatethem about stuff, they really
need to learn to make them abetter driver, we would go to
the racetrack, we would we woulddrive with them, educate them,
and so forth. So that lastedabout six years. And then the

(11:03):
MSA sort of took it, took it onthemselves, so I kind of helped
build it up for them. And andthat was it. And of course,
obviously, with customers ofBrabham BT62s that are racing,
I'm also there helping helpingthem in terms of I'm not not as

(11:24):
involved as I was with the youngdriver development program. But
I'm there to help as and when Ineeded such, you know, means so
if there is a racetrack, and Ican see something on the data,
or I can see something justtheir heads, not quite in it on
the day, which is pretty muchthe most important thing. And

(11:44):
you start working with them toget their focus back to where
they need to be and focus in theareas that's actually going to
make them improve. Because youcan forth, you can fill up
someone's mind very quickly withwhere you got to improve but
narrowing it down to what'sgoing to make the biggest step.
That's an art. And that takesexperience and learning learning

(12:05):
the driver that you're workingwith to get the best out of
them.

Might go back a bit 1987 the Adelaide Grand
Prix? Yeah. You're in thesupporting race to the F2
Australian Drivers Championship.
Yeah. And because of variousmechanical issues. saw you last
on the grid? Yeah. Then therewas some some interesting byplay
between you and my dad and yourdad. And then you ended up

(12:36):
finishing the race starting lastand coming first by almost two
seconds. I mean, there's just aincredible feat. What what was
happening there? Is thatsomething you? You're happy to
talk about?

Yeah, sure. I mean, I that year 87 was a busy
year for me, I didn't actuallycompete in any particular
championship because I went toAmerica and did former Atlantic
did four races over there. Iraced in Argentina, and Uruguay
in Formula Three. I went to NewZealand to do the Tasman series.

(13:14):
So when it came to theAustralian Grand Prix support
race, normally the Gold Starchampionship would be a
championship, it would be thefull season of races. But for
whatever reason, I can'tremember the formula 2
championship wasn't allocatedfor the gold star, and they
decided that the gold star wouldbe up for grabs for that that

(13:35):
race at the Adelaide Grand Prix.
Yeah, so it's a great prize tohave my dad never won it. So you
know, it was it was game on. Andthe three, three months before I
sat down with my dad, my mom anddad and I said, Look, I've got
something to tell you. I said,you know, my girlfriend, Fiona's
pregnant?

How old? How old? Were you then?

22

Okay, all right. So just painting the
picture. So we understand the,the magnitude of what you've
unveiled, but 1987

Yeah. 1987 I'm on the verge of heading to Europe.
And yeah, I had to sit down withmy dad in particular and say,
you know, my, my girlfriend'spregnant. And that went down
like a lead balloon. Yeah,because he was the the opinion.

(14:32):
Motor Sports are very selfishenvironment. If you're not 100%
dedicated, you're not going tomake it. So how are you going to
do this? Being that young andhaving a baby and having to be
that dedicated to it. Hecouldn't see how that was gonna
work and we fell out. So forthree months, I never spoke to

(14:53):
my dad. Till, till till thatGrand Prix weekend and You know,
it's uncomfortable, isn't it?
You have an argument with yourparents like that. It just
doesn't, doesn't sit. Soobviously, you mentioned
qualifying. Yeah, we had someelectrical issues, and I never
did a lap. So I had to start atthe back. And I had this

(15:14):
conversation with my mum and dadbefore the race and he was
wearing a Formula One Pass, andI said, Oh, you better give me
one of those. When I'm inFormula One. He said, The days
of you ever getting to FormulaOne have finished, like deadpan,
dead straight. He had that wasit he as far as I was concerned,
harsh. I'm done, you know, andthe anger and the rage inside

(15:36):
me. I told him to F off and offI went. And I had steam coming
in my ears. But what it did itmy mood changed completely?
Okay. Yes. So if you if you wereto say, well, how much more
determination did you have afterthat conversation? 1000 times

(15:57):
more, you know, what I mean?

Lee Gray (16:03):
lead you down the path of depression or, or forged you
absolute forged your idea? Yeah,

it could have it could have it could have I could
have walked away in tears. Youknow, I could have walked away
and so okay, I tell you what,I'm going to damn well show you!
You know what I mean? yes. So Iremember getting in that car.
And, and I'm sitting on the onthe on the grid with everybody
on the grid, you know, the teamsand the cars and stuff.

You're looking at all the losers in front of
you. Yeah, yeah,

I have. Well, I can only see a few because the
head in Adelaide, I was behindyou. I was around the other
side. Your mates I couldn't evensee. Yeah. Yeah. So then all of
a sudden.

Lee Gray (16:46):
Your'e looking at the hospital.
Yeah, I'm like, Yeah, I'mgrabbing my mechanic. And I
said, You go down there, and youtell those guys in front of me,
they better get out of my way.
Because I'm coming through now Iwould have never done that. But
I was in such a mood. Of course,he went down and had a chat to
him. He came back and I saidwhat they say? Well, I won't
tell you what they said. But youcan imagine what they said. And

(17:08):
that got me even more angry. Andyeah. And there was a balance
between driving at a at adifferent level that that made
every decision I made perfect.
Or I was just going to crashinto somebody because I my

(17:28):
emotions took over me, you know?

So the red, you avoided the red mist?

I had red mist, but I had I had it in a way that
served me put it that way. Sure.
And I drove I drove like, I'dnever never seen myself drive
before. You know, it was acompletely different level.

And how's that affected? Is that the thing that
sort of affected you from herefrom that point on

totally,

or was that?

it taught, me It taught me and dad kept saying to
me said David, it's all here. Itpoint to his head. And it's all
in your head, you know, mean?
And and he would neverarticulate it. He would just
say, David, it's all here.
That's the best way he knew howto describe it. And after that,

(18:13):
obviously, I just lit I wentfrom last, or 30 what it was at
35th on the grid or whatever itto 17th from that point on. Then
I was into 9th. And I was justit didn't get out of my way. I'm
coming through. I never touchedanyone never caused anyone an
accident. But I used to knewwhere to place the car and how

(18:33):
to place it better than I haveever done before. I could the
grip, I just push that car to anew level push myself to a new
level. And I got to the end. wonthe race dad was obviously
happy. He brought he actuallyhalfway through the race could
see the race. I was catchingeverybody grabbed hold of Ken
Tyrol and Jackie Stewart andgrabbed him from the pit lane

(18:56):
and said come and have a look atthis.

Yeah, that's my boy.

That's my boy.
Yeah, I know, all of a sudden,yeah, I mean, boy, again you
know what I mean! I one therace. And, you know, and I, I
always look back as a gift.
Because because it propelled meto a whole different place
mentally, that when I went toEngland, you know, you know,

(19:25):
sort of within two years, I'dwon the British f3 Championship,
and I'd won the World Cup of f3.
And a lot of that came from thatrace, just learning learning how
to deal with things so muchbetter. Finding what motivated
me, you know, and take my mentalplace to perform better than I'd
ever done before.

Lee Gray (19:45):
Yeah, sorry. How did you do that before without
getting riled up? I mean, it wasobviously anger. The thing that
got you through?

Yeah, you know, I had it. I actually worked out I
had to find things that actuallydid make me angry.

Lee Gray (19:59):
Right.

So I could carry that through that just gave me
that little extra edge.

Lee Gray (20:04):
How did you how did you manage that? Because I would
imagine racing as a fine lineall the time.

Yeah.

Lee Gray (20:12):
But how did you how did you not destroy the car in
that rage and look after thetires, and all of all of those
things at the same time, allthis, this rage is inside of
you?

Yeah, I mean, there's a rage where you're
reckless, and your fuel. Youknow, what the like, was when I
was working with the youngdrivers, you know, we get, we
get so much data from race cars,you know, it's oodles of data,
you can see exactly what thedrivers do, you can compare
driver to driver on the samecar, same data, and just look at

(20:45):
where they're braking, howthey're braking, how they're
turning into the corner, howthey're getting on the throttle,
what speed they're carrying, allthat sort of stuff. And you can
easily turned to a driver and soright you need to brake 20
meters later. Alright, now thatdriver may not be able to think
that he can do that. Alright,but the cars capable of doing

(21:05):
it. But the drivers mindset issuch that they just can't see
it. Yeah. So what I'd worked outthrough my career was, I had to
make sure that their mood was itwas was in a place. So when I
say they mood, you know, who dothey think they are? Are they

(21:26):
confident or they'reoverconfident? Are they? Do they
have a real belief about whatthey're doing? Or are there some
doubt? Is there doubt in theteam about the driver? Is there
doubt within the driver withinthe team for the team site? You
know, I mean, it's so all thesethings have influences what's
going on at home, you know, istheir home problems that they're

(21:46):
bringing into the racetrackthat's causing, you know what I
mean? So, you know, the, becausethe margins are so fine. And
your mood will determine how youinterpret your world. How you
get the feedback, how youinterpret it, how you give that
information to the engineers,how you move forward. Depends on

(22:08):
your mindset, you know, so itwas really important for me to
make sure that when I wasmyself, as a driver that I
understood, the best way for meto describe is, you know, if I
looked in the mirror, you know,what's my future? Look in the
mirror? Because that will tellme, what mood Am I in? That will

(22:29):
tell me what's going to happennext, you know, so I found I had
to then fine tune that all thetime. Because your moods, your
emotions, your feelings,everything changes from day to
day, doesn't it, you know, frommoment to moment, it can change.
So to then move into a racemeeting, getting rid of all of
that stuff in your head, gettingthat focus and whatever, is

(22:51):
super, super important. Andthat's before you've even jumped
in the car,

Lee Gray (22:57):
you try to induce that state of flow isn't you try to
slowly induce that state of flowin chaos. And yeah,

basically, yeah.
And that chaos can be before youeven get to a racetrack, you
know, I mean, so yes, that canbe an internal chaos or the
chaos in your family environmentor your you know, your outside
the racing world. You get intoyour racing world, if you don't
switch that off. And all yoursenses are heightened. And your
your focus is heightened youryou know, how much do you want

(23:26):
it as the guy next to you wantit more than you? Yeah, it's
it's as simple as that. Youknow,

I can see the parallels between that in
business as well, I believe whatyou're saying now, if we, if we
put this conversation,everything you've just said in
the context of a businesspresentation meeting for small
business owners, and you, youprobably wouldn't change
anything, you just said you justchanged the context. How's how

(23:55):
has that affected and given you?
The the ability to progress withBrabham Automotive now is that I
presume it's had an effect. Allof that has come to come to the
fore there.

Yeah, I think, you know, I ended up let's let's
backtrack a bit, because, youknow, Brabham automotive exists
for a number of reasons. It'snot just because David Brabham,
there's other people that play.
But if I go back to when I was40, I was looking for when I was

(24:30):
50. To go, right, what am Igoing to do when when I get to
50? Because I'll be too old, tooslow. No one's going to want to
pay me I probably won't want todo it again. So what's the next
chapter? And then looked at?
Okay, we got this iconic nameBrabham. I thought we did and
thought right, let's dosomething with it, then

(24:51):
discovered somebody owned it.
Then I had to go to court andthat took seven years to get get
the name back in Germany. Andthen I had to start all over
again, in the sense that okay,now I've got this name, what do
I do with it? And startinganything up, like an automotive

(25:12):
company requires a lot of gritand determination as challenges
are coming your way all thetime, you know,

to do so in Australia, is that there have
been lots of small manufacturersin Australia who have started
failed. There's the canon,there's all sorts of things.
Ball will, of course, is onethat probably did better than
most. But they were in a midmarket. You've not only chosen

(25:46):
to start an incredible supercarbusiness, but you're doing so in
Australia, in competition, andyou're competing against
McLaren, Pagani. Koenigsegg,Ferrari and the rest. So that
takes some pretty powerful gutsto do that.

It's, it's ambitious, there's no doubt
about it, you got you got tohave the right partners. So we,
you know, solve the problem is abrand and we look for projects
to use the brand as anaccelerator to market. So we we
did a deal with Fusion capitalout of Adelaide, where we create
a problem automotive, the BT 62went to market, the BT 62 went

(26:30):
out to market as a sort of trackcar only, that's evolved to a
racing version and a roadversion of the BT 62 We last end
of last year, we launched bt 63,which is a GT two race car. So,
you know, as a business, with,you know, certainly with with

(26:54):
our with the partners, I broughtdown in Adelaide, you know,
we've taken on a massivechallenge, but we are we are
reaching targets that we setourselves. Yes, it's taken
longer than we thought, but hey,you know, who doesn't? It's
been, it's probably been morechallenging than we thought.
Obviously, COVID is played havocon a lot of people, particularly

(27:19):
supply chains and things likethat, but we've managed to sort
of weather the storm, which,which is great. And, you know,
we're building we're slowlybuilding the business now. All
of us have that same mentalityof we're going to give this a
go, yes, there's going to bechallenges we're gonna have to

(27:41):
be, you know, and things don'tgo smoothly, internally and
externally, you know, I mean, itjust, that's the dynamics of
what you're trying to achievestresses whatever. But, you
know, at the end of the day, weare making the progress that
that we, you know, we're, we'recomfortable with, you know, it's
it's with where we are, andit's, you know, with the GT two

(28:03):
program, we feel that's got alot of potential as well,
because GT two, let's say is afairly new championship,
although the named GT twos bearound a long time. It's a new
kind of pro and you know, verymuch amateur based kind of
championship

it. I was just gonna say it's a great series. I
know I have made to race GT turnthat they're racing, Porsche,
particularly, and enjoying it.
You will see them at the bendTailem Bend quite often. There's
great series out there. SamShahhin is doing very well in
that series. And that now I seethat Bentley with the GT

(28:42):
continental coupe. They're doingthe GT two cars as well. So how
are you sitting in thatmarketplace at the moment? Where
is what sort of successes haveyou had with the car that in in
the BT 63 and the GT two class?

Yeah, so we, we looked at the GT two program and
thought how do we get this up upand running? Stephen retail
organization, SRO pretty muchrun all of GT racing globally.
So they were they were the onesbehind getting this new GT two
championship up and running. Andthey obviously were racing in

(29:25):
Europe. It took a couple ofyears because of COVID. And
everything got delayed, whichwas I think, was probably good
timing for us, as well, for whenwe when we jumped in. So for us
to compete, obviously, the carhas to go through a homologation
process. But we had to get a carto the racetrack to race at the
last round at Paul Ricard, whichI drove with an amateur. Dennis

(29:49):
Anderson. So high class racingactually bought that vehicle
that we put together, and theyran the car and we You know, it
was shake the car down before itwent over to Europe and straight
into the race meeting so we werenot as prepared as we would have

(30:09):
liked to be. So we were stillshaking the car down down for
the weekend to be fair, but youknow, I managed to qualify third
which was a massive, like, wow,okay. Yeah, because I felt rusty
as hell believe me. It was twoyears since competition, right.

(30:30):
Yeah.

It's old driver and a new car as opposed to the
classic series of new car newdriver in an old car. Yeah.

Definitely a retired and slow brain to begin
with jumping in the car. Yeah,so but you know it all yeah,
don't came together in the end.
And we I fit qualified third formy race. And Dennis qualified
for so we showed the performanceof the vehicle straightaway. And

(31:02):
then that in itself has createdmore interest in in what we're
doing with the GT two program.
There's some excitement

Win on Sunday sell on Monday!

Well, exactly.
You know, go out there and yourshow and demonstrate what you
can what you're capable of. Imean, last weekend, we had our
first New Zealand customer, theBT 62 Competition Spec race. So
they were in a similar boat. Wedidn't test the car before COVID
They went out there. There was afew little technical issues but
each race that he did, he gotfastest race lap qualified third

(31:38):
for race one. And mostdefinitely could have could have
won the last race but he had astone through the radiator. And
that was it. So you know, withwith, you know, we're going to
be racing in Europe. We got it.
We got one racing here in the UKand GT Cup. We got one now

(31:59):
racing in New Zealand. So youcan see it's all starting to
spread

going in the right direction. Yeah, that's,
that's great. I'm excited aboutthe fact that it's going to be
the GT the BT 62 arm? Yeah. Howis the car different? How's the
car different from other thanthe fact that you the the
obvious technical issues too,for Australia, of course, to

(32:25):
meet the Australian designrules? And the equivalents
around the world? What are youdoing there?

Yeah, I mean, it really depends on country to
country, I territory toterritory in terms of the
regulations, some are morechallenging than others. For
sure. And, you know, the BT 62R, which is obviously the road
compliant conversion of a BT 62track car is, you know, there's

(32:55):
technical changes that we needto make to the vehicle to be
able to go through the requiredregistration process for that,
for that country. And like Isaid, each country is a little
bit different. But you know, theGT, the GT three, sorry, the the

(33:16):
BT 63 GT two car is much more inline, let's say with BT 62 R in
terms of its aerodynamic andagain, performance as such, so
although the engine that the BT62 R is still pretty potent, at
700, the gear ratios aredifferent. The rear splitter,

(33:38):
the rear diffuser, the frontsplitter, rear wing, a much
smaller and higher, you know,you know, the shock absorbers
adjust. So they can go up anddown and give you more ride
height to go over bumps and goup driveways and things like
that. So there are some subtlechanges that you have to make.

And what about the aesthetics? How are you
making it more comfortable forthe bank manager? Or the retired
politician who wants to buy acar and drive around?

Yeah, I mean, if Yeah, I mean, if you you know,
that the seats, the interior,the sound, the noise, you know,
there's bit of noisecancellation going on in there
as well. I mean, it's still apretty raw car for the road,
you're never going to make itlike a luxury road car. That's
not what it is, you know, if youwant something different.

Lee Gray (34:32):
Is there plans for that though, David?

Yeah, all of what we're doing at the moment is
building up to you know, produceRoad, proper supercars for the
road. Because that that's verydifferent from what we've got
today. In terms of the BT 62 TheBT 62 hour and the BT 63. Yeah,
so in the background, we've beenworking on a new supercar for

(34:58):
the road. As as we building upthe business, we're building up
that project in parallel.

Interesting. Is that going to be different
architecture as well? is are wegoing to see two distinct
stylings? One, the BT 6263.
Family and then the Brabham Roadspecific car? Well, I can see
this on radio.

Yeah, right.
Yeah, I can see your handsmoving around.

Yeah, no, no.
Yeah, no, one else will!

they the design cues will carry on, obviously,
as a as a as a Brabham on theroad. So that that family DNA
will sort of carry through. Butin terms of other other things,
I can't really talk about thoseat the moment. But, you know,
it's much more designed for theroad than it is for the
racetrack.

Lee Gray (35:51):
It's beautiful. I mean, I've been fortunate enough
to go down and see the see thefactory, which is, which is
quite incredible. And from alayman, I think thing that
really shocked me was there wasstill remnants of your
development of the of the wheelsto cope with the BT 62. And
there was, you know, the wheelsare snapped at the hub. And I

(36:11):
was like, dear, God couldn'tbelieve that it was an engine
that they had that much talkthat much grip that it was, you
know, snapping stuffing thewheel at that point? It was
just,

yeah, yeah. I mean,

Lee Gray (36:24):
that's just jaw dropping.

Yeah, that's part of that sort of learning process
of, you know, the loads goingthrough the vehicle, the manner
of the suppliers that we use,making sure that they're,
they're in line with what forcesneed and where we've been on a,
I guess, a learning curve withall of that. But all that's been

(36:45):
sort of sorted now. So, youknow, that's just been part of
the development cycle. Tryingnew things.

Lee Gray (36:53):
Truly,truly beautiful looking piece of kit. very
formidable on the road, that'sfor sure.

Yes,

with a whole lot. And what's next thing is,
you know, from two designers,the point of with Lee and I are
both designers in in variousthings that we do we have a lot
of work, we have a lot ofdiversity. So we're very keen to
I think we'd both be very keento talk to you again, when
possibly about the BT 63 and theroad going version, when you've

(37:22):
got an opportunity to discussrelease details about the the
evolution of the company aboutdesign. I think we'd love to
talk to you about that. But sothe future the cars evolving
Brabram Automotive is evolving.
How is David Brabham? Nowevolving? Is it quiet fishing

(37:44):
weekends, or is it racing? Areyou going to go and go and
polish your golf club? So whatwhat's happening for David?

Yeah, right wish.
Yeah, I don't have time for,unfortunately, a lot of those
kinds of activities. I doGoodwood when I can, and I've
had a good run at Goodwood forthe members meeting and the
festival speed and the revivals.

(38:16):
So I get to put the race onhelmet again, and think about
being a driver in thosesituations. Obviously, I've been
involved in the test anddevelopment of the BT 62 and the
63. Race, the 63 race, the 62 aswell, you know, so we know we
want on our debut with a 62 atBrands Hatch. That was a
fantastic moment in Brabhamhistory, because, you know, my

(38:40):
dad won the British Grand Prixat Brands Hatch going across
brabbins Straight winning theBritish Grand Prix in a Brabham
BT 19. And I did the same in abrother bt 62 on rather than
straight turn the britcar intothe night race, you know, that
was that was a really coolmoment. So yeah, my involvement

(39:02):
with the helmet, I guess, willcontinue. I'm just not a full
time racing driver, you know,remain. So. My, my, my role is
to help, you know, grow thebusiness within Brabham
automotive, but also the Brabhambrand, because I went to I'm
brand owner. You know, we'relooking at other projects where

(39:23):
we can use the brand. I've got ason in Australia, who wants to
go racing next year. So I putthat on, and I put the Brabham
automotive hat on as well, youknow, so I wear a lot of hats
where I just don't have timejust go and play game of golf,
which I which I would love todo.

Fair enough. I think there's going to be a huge
challenging, huge challenge inkeeping the next generation
interested in motorsport from aspectator point of view because
so many young people are eithernot getting licenses or they're
quite folk quite emotional abouthow the planets being used. So

(40:05):
how do you see that? How are yougoing to maintain that spectator
excitement, it really justbolster that spectator
excitement in a race series thatis going to have to attract re
attract that younger generationinto electric?

Well, I think that's a topic and it has been a
topic for some time. For everyrace series, every television
network, every social mediaplatform, every manufacturer in
racing, you know that that is a,that's a big topic, you know.
And there there is there is asea of change, which I see as a

(40:48):
positive. We may not all thatout, the traditionalists within
us may not like it, because welike what we had in the past.
And then it excites us. And weremember those times these
things here, homes, you know,these things have changed. Yes,
changed everybody's way ofabsorbing information, what

(41:12):
excites them and things likethat. So that, that that's been
a real challenge, I think, notjust for motor sport, I think
for any, any, any sportingactivity that wants to engage an
audience, you know, it's verydifferent to what it was 1520
years ago, you know, I mean,it's, it's, it's, you've got to

(41:34):
work so much harder to engagethat audience. And, of course,
as the environmental play,becomes bigger and bigger and
bigger, everything, everythingwill be affected by that.
Everything, you know, I mean, soit's a big challenge. It is it's
a it's a, there's a quantumshift going on on the planet,

(41:55):
which, you know, if you listento the scientists, it's much
needed, and hopefully not toolate. But you know, the speed in
which things are happening interms of that we let's put the
planet first, let's put humanityfirst. We're not there yet, for

(42:16):
sure. But, you know, if you lookat the generations that are
coming through the youngergeneration, I've never seen it
in my lifetime, where the younghave got such a voice. No,
normally

very powerful, very powerful event.

Absolutely. And some that may be misguided or
whatever. But some of it's noteither, you know, I mean,
because it's pushing

Lee Gray (42:42):
so well educated now.

Yeah, it's pushing the agenda. It's
changing the agendas ofgovernments, businesses,
whatever, to think verydifferently about how businesses
done and how what impact thatthat has, you know, so, you
know, if you're not ahead ofthat game, now, you're going to

(43:06):
get you're going to get leftbehind

the list of Australian Le Mans races is very
short. In fact, I think Le Manschampions Brabham's Make up 50%
of that list of winners. You. Soone of you has to be president
one, the chairman. Of course.
So, Bentley, vintage Bentley'sare one of my very passionate

(43:30):
about those. So, Bernard Reubenin 2008, the Australian he won,
driving with Wolf binotto VernSchuppan who lives here as well,
he's he won an 83 in his 956Porsche. Yeah. Your brother Jeff
in the 905 Perguot Oh, ninethree and then then we come

(43:54):
along to your winning war secondclass in 2003. In the Bentley
exp speed eight that that justmakes my my heart shiver. Then
in 2007, first in class for theDVR nine for St. Maarten and
then your outright placing in2009. With the 908 Pergout.

(44:17):
Indurance racing, what a slog 24hours of it. Is it fair to say
that you're relying more on selfdiscipline and strategy then the
outright guts and determinationof 13 laps at the 87 Deadly
Grand Prix? Yeah,

very different mindset to for sure, because you
only had like 50 laps. So Ilogged indurance racing. As soon
as I got into it, I said, Yeah,this is me. You know,I love the
fact that

that sort of comes through.

Yeah.I love I love the fact that it seemed to
be more of a team environment.
Yes, you had you had teammatesyou had to work with. Every
driver has a different drivingstyle and require something a
little bit different. So you'vegot to kind of work that out.
Now when I first went intosports car racing, was 1991,

(45:16):
which was the year I did f1 ForBrabham, and I went into that
team, and it was a veryprofessional team was Jaguar.
Tom Openshaw racing. Yes, Ross,Braun was the designer of the
car. The car was phenomenallyfast. And I drove, I've actually

(45:39):
drove both cars. So I started inone and finished the other. So
it was only three of us driversdriving, driving two cars. So it
was a three hour race. And Istarted in one and I'd come out
and I'd do the last hour and theother car. And in my first time
at the Nurburgring, I finishedfirst and second, which was kind

(46:00):
of novel. So that was a goodstart to my sports car career.
And, of course, my very firstmom was 92. And that scared the
hell out of me because by timewe had an accident on the start.
I didn't do many laps prior tothe race. So I didn't really

(46:21):
know the trends well as I wouldhave liked.

It was first time at the SAF was Yeah. On
that race. Gee,

yeah, so it was absolutely bucketing down with
rain at the start. And JeffLee's my teammate got hit from
behind by Yannick Dell mess andin Peugeot, rounding when he
limps back to the pits, andwe're done, you know, we're 40
Odd laps behind trying to fixthe damn thing. So the first
time I get in the car was atnight. It was pitch black,

(46:52):
obviously, it was thick fog.
Alright, we were still racingunder green, and it was raining,
it was still raining veryheavily.

Lee Gray (47:00):
So what kind of when you say thick fog? What kind of
visibility Do you have nothowever heavy

I like it was to two or three of the white lines
on the Mulsanne straight. Andthat was it. When I went out, I
never got our third gear and myfirst

lap. So what speed we're doing on the what
speed we're doing on the mostand straight in third gear,
clear weather and in and in thefog.

Well put it this way the neck that I did third
gear, going around the racetrackand a couple of times I just
like when you go out of Molsoncorner to Indianapolis out the
back, there's two kinks. Imissed the first kick, I was on
the grass and then I was back onagain. And then the next lap, I
thought, come on you What thehell are you doing? Get? Just

(47:51):
get going. We're just put. SoI'm flat. 180

miles an hour?

Yeah, well, yeah.
180 190 mile an hour. Down downthe mall sign just sitting in
the middle praying, no one's infront of me. Flat chat waiting
to try and see where the brakemarkers were, you know, kind of
where you're at. And yeah, I wasnot comfortable. I was not
comfortable. You know. So thatwas my first Le Mans. And

(48:16):
luckily, luckily, it got betterafter that. Luckily, it got
better after that. So I did at Idid 18 Le Mans and you know, I
finished third, a second withBentley in 2003. Which was was
pretty special. Actually, whenmy brother won, we won that GT

(48:38):
class in the Jaguar 220 Althoughwe got disqualified later, but
on the on the day, yes, yes,really haven't won overall. And
so both on the podium, my dadwas there and it was a really
special moment. And

that was the 220. Yeah. What was it like to
drive a 220 which is which is amagnificent motorcar with that V
six, which I think astounded alot of people when it was
released. When everyone thoughtthe presume that it would be the
V 12 desirably. But incrediblyfast car what's what was it like

(49:17):
to drive in a race?

Well, at first it was bit of a handful, because it
didn't have enough reardownforce. And then when we got
to the race, they put a big rearwing on it settle that down
quite a lot. And, you know,ended up being quite successful
event for us in the end becausewe we were declared the winners
at the Subala trophy at home.
But then we got disqualified.

So because of catalytic converter, I think
Catalytic converters Yeah, therewas there was there was a lot of
politics back then between theACO and the say Tom Walkinshaw.
There was a bit of a bit of badblood there. So anyway,
Obviously, for me, Le Mans waswas always very special. And you

(50:06):
know, the runner in 2007 andeight with Aston Martin, where
we finished first and thenoverall. And when I finished
overall, it's interestingbecause in oh seven and eight, I
watched the winners overall goup on the podium and and it was
such an amazing feeling anywaywinning your class. And I
thought, wow, what's it like upthere? You know, it must be even

(50:26):
more incredible. And of course,in 2009, I was able to do that.
And it was exactly the same, thefeeling was exactly the same.
That and the only thing you thatstruck me was this ain't about
the trophy. This is about thejourney. Yes, yeah. That's what
it was. Yeah, all of a sudden,it was a light bulb moment. I
just thought were all your yourfamily, your friends, that the

(50:49):
teammates that you've driven,the amount of times the amount
of times you've gone there, andyou've had no chance of winning?
You think you've got you'renever going to get the
opportunity again. And there Iam standing on the podium, you
know, I mean, and I look backnow, actually, yeah, it's about
the journey.
Yeah, that's brilliant. And arewe going to see another next
generation of Brabham? Eitherthe son or the nephew on that

(51:11):
podium as well. Do you thinkwell,

yeah, I mean, obviously, hope so. Yeah. I
mean, obviously, the idealscenario would be, you know,
this is my ideal scenario. Wehave, you know, Brabham cars
racing at Le Mans and we've gotBrabhams and we've got Kyron
speakers bashing out the tunesin the pit lane.

I don't forget deverson design making your nice
garage

design out, pulled out of the garage and my
future Brabham car and I'mlistening to the tunes in the
car, and I'm driving, driving toLe Mans. That's That's heaven.

Okay, we are going to be there with you.
Hopefully, Lee will be there towill be a support crew, your
emotional, pitcrew.

Lee Gray (51:52):
Yeah. Thank you.
David, thank you so much foryour time.

You're welcome.

Lee Gray (51:58):
Absolutely wonderful, like, like, Jayde was saying
before, we'd love to have youback. You know, maybe perhaps in
a year's time, we'll movearound. Got some progress on
road cars and and Brabham, ingeneral. Yeah, we'd love to to
circle back around and sayG'day.

So yeah. Thanks for your involvement with
everything. And yeah, good tocatch up and have a great
Christmas.

Great to tell you. Thanks. And good yet soon
to you.

I say like,

Lee Gray (52:25):
so what did you take away from that job?

Well, it's, it's wonderful to talk to a
champion driver like that. Italways is, especially in a race
series, that I'm so fond of theLe Mans and so it was wonderful.
I met Sir Jack, Brabham manyyears ago, working in the

(52:49):
industry. Now I've met David.
And it was just such a pleasure,his his down to earth,
straightforward, honest approachto talking to us and I, for me,
the big thing was learning andunderstanding his calm in
racing, and applying that tobusiness, a particular couple of

(53:18):
races where he anticipated whatwas going to happen, and he
backed out, especially in theMacau Grand Prix. Back in the
90s. So for me, it was thesingle minded determination, the
focus, and the powerful calm. SoI'm just I'm very impressed. I'm

(53:43):
very impressed with the BrabhamAutomotive car. And I'm really
looking forward to supportingthe brand. David and the BT. 62.
What about you, Lee?

Lee Gray (53:57):
Yeah, I think it was the lessons that we learned that
can be applied to all of ourlives, like you mentioned
before, into business, that thatapproach that he had to racing
and saying that it was so muchit was just in the mind and
getting that that mindset andmaintaining that flow. And I

(54:19):
know that I have that with mywork in some days, it's easy to
design other days it can be aslog, and and it all just comes
down to that that mindset. Butas I thought it was also great
that we can share David's storya bit more to then then just as
his father's which is obviouslytakes the limelight all the time
that his his achievements areimmense.

He's independently powerful. And the
fact that he didn't have thatsupport as many children of
celebrities do. He is it's allon it's all him. I think we've
just, I think we've just had amasterclass Lee

Lee Gray (55:01):
Yeah, no, it was it was very, very impressive and it
was wonderful the chatting. It'sgreat. Anyway, so to the
listeners, we hope that youenjoyed David's story as much as
we did. Thanks for listening tothe show. And if you'd like to
find out more about Kyron audioor Deverson design and how we
can create bespoke luxuryenvironments and experiences in
your life, you're more thanwelcome to book a call with one

(55:22):
of our principals through ourwebsites kyronaudio.com.au or
deversondesign.com.au or followus on our socials. Links are in
the description. And we will beback next week with another
episode to discover more Talesfrom the top

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David Brabham - A supercharged story of racing success

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}David Brabham - A supercharged story of racing success