#114 Robert Yarnall - From Battlefield Lessons to Everyday Leadership - Tales of Leadership

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
We talk about it all the time with our Reuniting the
Brave program.
You know, it's the people thatyou've gone through the most
challenging times with thatyou're going to have the closest
relationship with.
Uh, you know, and we tend totalk about the good times, but I
I think about it all the timewhen when I get together with
Marines that I served with overdifferent periods, and you know,

(00:21):
what are the things you talkabout and laugh about the most
are the at the time, thesuckiest times.
Yeah, I remember being stuck outthere in 102 degrees and the
winds were blowing, blew overthe shower tents.
We didn't shower for 26 days.
You know, those are those arethe kind of moments that you
look back at and you laugh with,but you both went through that
shared misery or that sharedtrial, you know, the the tough

(00:44):
times, you know, where you'velost people.
But those are the ones that Ithink bring you together and and
really make a tight bond that isinseparable.
And that's I I I look at thestrongest friends, friendships
that I have and relationships Ihave, and they're with people
that I went through the toughesttimes of my life with.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03):
You're listening to the Tell as a Leadership
Podcast.
This podcast is for leaders atany phase on their leadership
journey to become a morepurposeful and accountable
leader.
What I like to call how.
Join me on our journey togethertowards transformational
leadership.

SPEAKER_03 (01:21):
All right, team, welcome back to the Tell as a
Leadership Podcast.
I am your host, Josh McMillian,and I'm on a journey to become
the best leader that I possiblycan.
And I will do that by bringingon purposeful, accountable
leaders, what I like to callpals.
And a pal is someone who leadswith intention, integrity, and
makes an impact.
I'll also go through myself-study, my leadership

(01:44):
habits, and my journalingexperiences, which I share
through the lens of my ownleadership journey.
But here's my why, and it'simportant to continue to
communicate this.
I've seen the cost of poorleadership, how it can destroy
morale, break trust, and inworst cases, lead to a loss of

(02:07):
lives, including throughsuicide.
That's why I'm committing mylife to helping others lead with
purpose.
Through tells of leadership, Ishare real stories and actual
insights on how to overcomeadversity and become the kind of
leader that people remember youfor for the right reasons.
So here are some quick freeresources before we begin.

(02:30):
You can go to my uh link treeslash tells of leadership.
Everything is listed down thereto include all of the social
medias that you can go followon.
But one of the key ones isMcMillian Leadership
Coaching.com slash tells ofleadership.
There you'll be able to find anypodcast that I've already

(02:52):
recorded in the past to includeindividual blog articles that
accompany those podcasts when wehave phenomenal leaders on.
And the reason is because it'sall free.
I want you to be armed with theright tools to make uh the best
decisions uh as you continue onyour leadership journey.

(03:13):
But on today's episode, uh,outside of the free resources, I
am bringing you a purposeful,accountable leader, Robert
Yarnell or Bob.
He is the VP of Development andImpact at the Robert Irvine
Foundation, a retired mastergunnery sergeant with 25 years
of service in the United StatesMarine Corps.

(03:34):
Rob has also spent over 20 yearson civics for a teacher and a
coach.
In addition to his military andteaching career, he is a
committed leader involved inlocal government and charitable
organizations, as well as smallbusiness owner.
This is a phenomenal episode,and I really mean that.

(03:54):
As always, stay to the very end,and you'll get the top three
takeaways from this episode.
Bob, welcome to the Tells ofLeadership Podcast.
How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_01 (04:05):
I'm doing great, Josh.
I appreciate you having me onthe show.

SPEAKER_03 (04:08):
Yeah.
Um, so talking about it before,uh, but uh it's always an honor
to have people on the show thatcontinue to serve.
And that's why I'm reallyexcited to like dig into your
leadership journey becauseyou've served both in a capacity
in the military arms, but youalso are a coach, uh, a teacher,

(04:28):
and then now working in anonprofit organization.
So you continue to serve.
And I always find it for meselfishly the best conversations
uh to learn from people like youwho have led on both sides, not
just wearing the uniform, butoutside of the uniform.
So I'm really excited to diginto uh what makes Bob tick.

SPEAKER_01 (04:50):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Um, many years of of experience,I always say trial and error,
failure, picking yourself backup, learning from some great
mentors.
Um, you know, it's it's 56 yearsin the making.

SPEAKER_03 (05:07):
Yeah.
That's uh that's gonna be thechallenge in about an hour.
How can we distill all of thatdown um into an episode?
But I will do my best.
And uh I always love it startingoff with just the same question
that we have everyone on theshow with is how would you
define leadership in your terms?

SPEAKER_01 (05:28):
You know, I I think for me, leadership is one
serving your people.
You know, if if you take care ofthose that you're leading, they
will always take care of you.
Um it's self, you know, selflessleadership in that way.
You know, it's always abouttaking the blame for anything
that goes wrong, but passing onthe credit for everything that

(05:50):
goes right, knowing your peopleand and caring, truly caring
about them.
When I say knowing them, it'syou know it's not just, hey,
what's your name?
It's knowing their situation,uh, knowing where they're coming
from, knowing what their goalsare and how you can help them
achieve that and and make them abetter person.
You know, far too often we we doa lot of talk and we don't do as

(06:11):
much listening.
And I've kind of adopted in inmy life uh something I work
really hard on is listen tolearn and understand, not to
respond.
And I think when you do that, itreally forces you to sit back
and listen more intently.
Um and you you know it's it's agreat piece in terms of building

(06:32):
those relationships.
And uh leadership is all aboutrelationships, whether you're
you're leading up, you'releading down, um, or you're
leading your peers.
It's it's all about relationshipbuilding, building that trust
and that integrity that you knowyou know this is what we're
doing, and and you're on thesame path together, having a
clear vision.

SPEAKER_03 (06:52):
That was already fire in terms of me already
trying to scribble down notesbecause I I I use this podcast
in a way for me too to become abetter leader.
And I have already taken a halfa page of notes from just your
definition alone, which I whichI love.
And I think one of the thingsthat quote, I've never heard
that before, but listen to learnand understand not to respond.

(07:16):
I wish uh someone would havetold me that when I was just
starting out in combat armsbecause I was a javelin.
I'd fire, forget, and I would uhjust act because I thought that
that's what leadership meant isthat you had to be decisive and
you had to go take action.
And if you weren't doing that,then you weren't leading from
the front.
Um so that that's phenomenaladvice.

(07:37):
And this would probably be agreat place just to start easing
into it.
How did you begin to developthat type of mindset?

SPEAKER_01 (07:44):
Yeah, well, as a as a young Marine, um, I was a
corporal filling a gunnerysergeant's billet.
So, you know, I I worked with alot of senior enlisted members,
but I was leading a logisticsshop, and I used to get really
high strung when things wouldhappen, and you know, it was,
hey, I gotta make this happen inthis way because otherwise
they're not gonna look at me thesame, they're gonna run over me.

(08:07):
And I I had a a major that Iworked for, uh, who you know, he
just kind of when I'd come intohim like, sir, we need to relax.
What's the situation?
He'd he'd I'd give him thesituation, he'd digest it, okay.
He'd make a phone call, problemsolved.
And like I I think that taughtme like you don't have to go

(08:32):
off, absorb all the information,absorb the situation.
It's not a crisis.
You know, this isn't somethingthat's going to be life or death
today or tomorrow.
Like, what do we need to do tosolve this?
What steps do we need to take?
And and that really became forme, I think the best learning
experience in that whole processof listen, get the information,

(08:56):
understand the information, andthen take the steps to remedy
it.

SPEAKER_03 (08:59):
Yeah, there's uh I think in the Marine Corps they
developed the OODA loop.
I'm not even going to try to sayit off the now.
Um, but it's similar to thatprocess in the military or in
the army, we call it a sealshalt.
Um, and then I kind of redefinedit as stop.
So stop, take a tactical pause,observe your surroundings and
pursue a purpose.

(09:19):
And sometimes when I find myheart starting to flutter and
like that gut feeling of like,hey, Josh, you gotta go.
I I sometimes take a tacticalpause and just realize, all
right, let the environment shapeum until it is truly time to
decide.
So that was great advice.
And I'm sure early on in yourcareer that was a blessing too,
as you continue to advancethrough your journey.

(09:42):
Um, but I would love to starttoo of what was your story to
serve?
Everyone has a story, and theMarine Corps is usually one of
those branches that you eitherwant to test yourself or it
comes from like a familybackground.
So I'm curious, like what droveyou to to join the Marine Corps
and serve?

SPEAKER_01 (10:00):
Yeah, I have a couple of both of those
actually.
Um I had a cousin who wastwo-time uh Vietnam tour.
Uh he just retired as a colonelnot that long ago.
Just a huge inspiration to me asa kid and was probably one of
the most influential people thatthat I had in my life, even
though I didn't see him thatoften.
Uh, but when I did, there wasalways that respect, and and it

(10:22):
kind of drove me in thatdirection.
But it was also, you know,coming out of um a divorce
situation and not really havinga lot of guidance, I really
wanted to challenge myself, andI figured that the best way to
do that was looking into themilitary and and then I applied
for an NROTC scholarship.
I didn't get that.
I did re meet the person uh 20plus years later.

(10:44):
We shared a cubicle in the uhhistory division in Quantico,
who scored 20 points higher onthe SATs than I did.
He went to Villanova.
I went to Paris Island.
Uh, but you know, it was thatchallenge of and that giving
back that service aspect.
Uh I I had the opportunity to dosome community service as a as a

(11:05):
youngster through my mom and andthrough high school and and
National Honor Society, where wewe gave back whether it was a
Special Olympics or um you knowdoing community projects, and I
just wanted to take it to thenext level.
And I I felt that serving ourcountry um you know doesn't get
any better than that.
And if I was going to do it, Iwanted to challenge myself and
hence the Marine Corps.

SPEAKER_03 (11:26):
Yeah.
I I will tell you, I'm sure theMarine Corps got the better deal
of the bet being anon-commissioned officer through
your pipeline versus being anofficer.
And I struggled with that when Iwas just starting off, too,
because I grew up in rural WestVirginia.
There's not that manyopportunities, and I'm not
joking when I say it's the coalmines or you get lucky and go to
college or you get ascholarship.

(11:46):
And I I was almost on the fenceof joining the Marine Corps.
I did the delayed entry programbecause I wanted to go test
myself.
Um, and then my buddy taught mehe's like, hey, you could go be
a cadet at a college andcommission and still do
everything you wanted to do.
I wanted to jump out of planesand go to ranger school and do
all those crazy stuff that ayoung man wants to do.
And for whatever reason, Iremember my military cruiter at

(12:11):
the time, and this is you knowuh what 2005.
So Iraq is, you know, pretty hotand heavy, and Afghanistan is
just starting to formulate.
They they actually let me go,which I think nowadays they
would have probably been likecrucified if they let someone go
who goes through MEPs already.
Uh, but everything worked out,and um it's been a blessing to

(12:32):
be an officer from thatperspective.
But I guarantee you the MarineCorps has probably had a
phenomenal non-commissionedofficer, and you probably
touched more lives because whatI've learned as I grow in rank,
I lose that connection withsoldiers.
And as non-commissioned officersgrow through rank, they tend to
um continue to have those touchpoints until you make the rank
of a sergeant major, and thenyou gotta get stuck in the

(12:53):
cubicle with another officer.

SPEAKER_01 (12:56):
That was one of the reasons I love being a master
gunny, because you know,obviously you're still an E9,
but you you have a lot moretouch points out in the field
with with the troops.
So, you know, there's thosethree those three ranks.
Hitting sergeant was kind ofthat first one because now you
really get that opportunity tolead.
Gunny, you you you start to getthe you know the ability to lead

(13:19):
up and down, but you still havea lot of touch point with the
troops.
As a master guns, now I get togo and be a mentor, um, both to
those you know, other staff NCOsand and the young NCOs.
So, you know, but having thattouch point, wow, what a what an
honor that was.
And and being able to help moldand develop so many young
Marines, and and they helpedmold me too.

(13:40):
I mean, that's again, it's youlearn from those above you and
you learn from those below youas well.
And I I think that they taughtme just as much as I taught
them.

SPEAKER_03 (13:49):
It would be uh something that I've always
admired about the Marine Corpsis just when when you go through
once a Marine, always a Marine,right?
Like everyone's heard thatslogan.
But what did it mean to you?
Like when you were going throughthere and you're challenging
yourself.
I and I don't know yourbackground, um, but once you
finally made it, when you youwere a Marine and you shipped
off to your first duty location,what were some of the the

(14:12):
feelings that you had?

SPEAKER_01 (14:14):
Well, one, I I I use this all the time now when I'm
talking to, especially inveterans groups or anybody
that's struggling.
Um when you complete basictraining officer candidates
school, you know, just not justin the Marine Corps, in any
branch of the service, it makesyou a one percenter.
Um, you know, what do I mean byone percenter?
Less than one percent of thepopulation is willing to step

(14:35):
forward and serve.
You know, and and to equatethat, less than one percent of
the population will complete amarathon.
Less than one percent of thepopulation becomes a Division I
athlete, less than one percentof the population obtains their
doctorate.
So when you completed basictraining, you've already put
yourself into an elite categoryof achievers in the United

(14:58):
States.
And and I think sometimes, youknow, uh we forget that because
yeah, we did it, okay, great.
We we moved on now, we've doneour career, we've done our four
years, whatever it is, time thatyou serve.
We sometimes forget the factthat we are already an elite
company by what we've achievedin our life.
And that's where we start from.
That's where we should bestarting from, not anywhere

(15:20):
else.
Start from the fact that you arealready an elite achiever, and
if you've achieved that, you canachieve anything else that you
you put your mindset to.
Um, but I I think the confidencethat you come out of it with,
you know, there's that balancebetween cockiness and and
confidence.
I just like to say we're we'revery confident in our abilities,
and and they as part of it, itbuilds you up into that.

(15:41):
Um you know, you're you'retaking on now responsibility.
Heck, I turned 18 in boot camp.
So when I got that to my firstCall of Duty station, you know,
young 18-year-old, wow, you'reput in charge of different
things that you know most peoplewouldn't ever do until they're
35, 40.
Um so you you know, you have theopportunity to learn and grow.

(16:03):
Again, I I attribute a lot of mysuccess to the folks that I
worked with when I first came inthe Marine Corps because they
mentored me, they gave meopportunity to learn and grow.
Not that I didn't make mistakes,but they didn't crucify me for
my mistakes.
They let me learn from thosemistakes.
Now, if I made those same repeatmistakes over and over again,
I'm sure I would have beencrucified.
But, you know, having theopportunity to make those

(16:25):
mistakes and grow from them andcontinually being challenged by
giving more opportunities everytime you know you accomplish
one.
Hey, okay, well, you can dothat.
Let's see what else you can do.
Um, constantly challenging youto improve, not just
professionally, but also youknow, personally, and develop
your your leadership and youryour own drive as a as a human

(16:48):
being.

SPEAKER_03 (16:49):
Yeah, I think that that was a challenge that I had
too, like working through theranks of um iteratively
developing, like the sameconcept through uh engineering
of how we iteratively developsomething into a production
level and then continuing.
But for my own personaldevelopment, like I had all the
schoolhouse stuff.
Um, I went through RangerSchool, I did all those things,

(17:11):
I had all the tabs when I showedup to my my unit, but there's a
difference of actuallyimplementing leadership and
trying to influence others to dothings, especially when it's
like extremely uncomfortable.
And I I know that you deployedto um uh desert uh shield,
desert storm part of that.
And I mean, I deployed to Iraqand Afghanistan, but like there

(17:33):
was something different for meof like taking over my platoon
in Afghanistan after goingthrough a schoolhouse and then
like, all right, well, this isit.
Like it's and I always fall backto like deeds, not words, is
that um how how can I model thebehaviors that I want out of my
men, and then how can Iinfluence them from your
perspective, like from theMarine Corps and then going

(17:55):
through as a non-commissionedofficer and your experience in
Desert Storm, what was that likegoing from a garrison
environment as a leader to hey,we're we're in the show now?

SPEAKER_01 (18:05):
Yeah, I think you know, I was actually got
promoted to sergeant while wewere we were deployed on a
Westpac um when things broke outand we're supposed to supposed
to be heading to Australiainstead made the hard turn,
right?
Um, you know, got stuck out on aship for 102 straight days, most
of it in general quarters.
Um doing circle squares, drop ananchor.

(18:27):
He said, you know, I had thesauna.
I had I when you caught anoffice space, I wouldn't really
call it an office.
It was like a closet, but thediesel exhaust vent came up
through our little kooby.
So we had we had our ownpersonal sauna every time they
kicked into diesel generators.
But I I think you know, I thinkit's just like anything else in
leadership.
How do you demonstrate you knowwhat should be done, you know,

(18:52):
by uh any other way but doing ityourself too?
Like I I would never ask anybodythat's in my charge to do
something that I'm not willingto do.
And quite frank, it's nice it'sabout willing to do.
You know, hella sandbags needfilled.
I'm out there filling sandbagswith them.
I'm not just sitting back, well,I'm I'm the sergeant, so you go
do it.
To me, they're gonna be muchmore willing to do it if you are

(19:14):
there with them.
Um and not not that you're abovethat.
Now, are there times where yes,where I you as a leader are
called to other duties and andyou have responsibilities to the
people that you know are incharge of you, and therefore,
hey, I'm tasking you, put thatyoung corporal in charge.
All right, you you're taskedwith getting this done.
But I think if they see you andyour willingness to do what

(19:38):
you're asking them to do, theyare definitely going to be more
likely to follow you.
And and that doesn't come justovernight either.
That comes from what you exhibitand that trust in that um you
know, but belief in yourintegrity and you as a leader.
And again, that goes back tothat relationship building.

(19:58):
Did you did you develop thatbond with them along the way
that hey they're gonna followyou?
And um, you know, it's certainlydifferent when you're going from
all right, well, we break at 1130, go to child, go to the gym,
come back to work, and 4 30we're going to the beach to now
we're in a situation whereyou're you know definitely a

(20:18):
different scenario in the firstGulf War compared to you know
Afghanistan and Iraq.
Um, but now we're we're gonna benavigating the mine, floating
minefields in the Gulf.
All right, we need people up onthe flight deck, MVGs, um,
looking out for mines.
You know, it's a it's a scarytime of the scary of the unknown
and what you might wind up uhencountering.

(20:41):
So, you know, showing them theconfidence and you know being
that leader that they can theycan follow and get behind, I
think is is a big part of it.

SPEAKER_03 (20:50):
Yeah, I I a hundred percent agree with that.
Is that uh I think one thingthat I stood out from my peers
as I like continue to move upthrough the ranks is that I I
remember this like oldcommercial um or a newspaper
clipping actually, and it hadlike this leader, and it's been
overused, you'll find it onLinkedIn everywhere, versus a
manager, and then it's someonetrying to move a ball or big

(21:12):
stone up a hill.
The leader's actively helpingthe team move it, where the
manager's sitting on top andhe's directing the team to do
that.
And I think like you just saidit beautifully, and that's the
art of science and leadership,is that sometimes we have to
direct because we have tooperate with mission command
because there's just so much todo and you can't do everything.

(21:33):
So, what can you delegate thatother people can do just as well
as you so you can focus on thehigher level tasks at hand?
And then when do you need to getyour hands dirty with the team
to show them, like, hey, I'm notabove doing this work, I'm not
special, I have a rank title,but that doesn't mean that my
life is of any different valuethan yours.

(21:54):
So let's let's get after it.
Um, that's that's a beautifulway of like summing that up.
And I like how you talked abouttoo of like the the process of
leadership.
One of the key pillars of thatis building relationships.
And I've definitely learnedthrough uh crucible events, you
build way stronger relationshipsto stand the test of time versus

(22:15):
just like a normal nine to fivejob.
What what about you, same?

SPEAKER_01 (22:18):
Oh, absolutely.
Um, we talk about it all thetime with our reuniting the
brave program.
Um, you know, it's the peoplethat you've gone through the
most challenging times with thatyou're going to have the closest
relationship with.
Uh, you know, and we tend totalk about the good times, but I
I think about it all the timewhen when I get together with

(22:39):
you know Marines that I servedwith over different periods.
And, you know, what are thethings you talk about and laugh
about the most are the at thetime the suckiest times.
Yeah, I remember being stuck outthere in 102 degrees and the
winds were blowing, blew overthe shower tents.
We didn't shower for 26 days.
You know, those are those arethe kind of moments that you
look back at and you laugh with,but you both went through that

(23:03):
shared misery um or that sharedtrial, you know, the the the
tough times, you know, whereyou've lost people, but those
are the ones that I think bringyou together the and and really
make a tight bond that isinseparable.
And that's I I I look at thestrongest friends, friendships
that I have and relationships Ihave, and they're with people

(23:23):
that I went through the toughesttimes of my life with.

SPEAKER_03 (23:25):
Yeah.
What's so funny or ironic aboutthat is that it's usually humor
that we find and like thosereally terrible moments that
kind of get us through it.
Uh, I remember some of the myworst memories, uh, and some of
the best friends that I have nowis that we would just be
laughing hysterically when anormal person was like kind of
going through that environment.
They're like, you guys areabsolutely crazy.

(23:46):
Well, I think to be a onepercenter, like you just talked
about, you have to be mentallyuh on the edge.
I I guess I'll just say that.
Like you have to be willing tolike put yourself in very
uncomfortable situations andfind humor in it.
I agree with that.
So, kind of balancing or kind ofcontinuing down, uh, when did
you, because I know this is adeep passion of yours, when did

(24:08):
you start developing a love formentoring and coaching?
Was that in the Marine Corps orwhen you started to make a
transition?

SPEAKER_01 (24:16):
You know, it's it's funny you asked that because it
was a topic that came uprecently.
Good friend Mick Hunt talksabout your why and then your
because.
And it made me think justliterally, we were out on a hike
a couple of weeks ago with mywife, and you know, why why do I
have that desire for mentorship?

(24:37):
And I think it really goes backto the lack of what I had in my
own life as a youngster.
Um, you know, my parentsdivorced and there really wasn't
that support or that mentorship.
Um, and I I think back I wasfortunate that I had a few
really strong mentors.
Um one of my drill instructorswho I helped I worked very

(25:01):
closely with him even as arecruit as he was moving up and
taking over a new platoon.
He was a sergeant of the guardin Beirut when the barracks was
bombed there.
We had just developed a verytight bond.
Um and he meant he was really myfirst mentor in the Marine Corps
that I had, and was very, verystrong mentor in that way.
Um so it just that that has beenmy because really is giving back

(25:26):
and providing that, whether itwas as a teacher, as a coach, as
a leader of young Marines, is Ican be there for you.
Somebody who truly cares, wantsto know who you are, wants to
know what your goals, and I'mgonna do everything I can to
help you achieve you know whatit is that you want to achieve.

(25:46):
And you know, even taking somefolks that were discarded by
others.
Um I I can think vividly of acouple of people.
They would always being in thelogistics shop.
I would get the the folks whogot in trouble somewhere else,
and they'd make them thebarracks manager, so they'd fall
underneath me.
And you know, it's like, allright, you made mistakes.
So here's the situation you'rein.

(26:08):
What are we gonna do about that?
How are you going to moveforward?
What is it that you want toachieve from this?
You can do nothing and you canspiral downward, or you can take
this as an opportunity to do thebest job possible and move
yourself forward and get better.
It doesn't mean that you can'tuh regain that.
You're gonna have to work harderfor it, but being there and and

(26:28):
but giving them the confidenceum that somebody believes in
them, I think, is such a hugefactor.
You know, I saw it over and overagain as you know, with with
young Marines with the differentbackgrounds they're coming into
the Marine Corps with, tostudents especially.
My gosh, the the kids that areare coming into school today
with the baggage that theycarry.

(26:48):
You know, there's a great bookout there on the Vietnam War,
The Things They Carry.
It's one of the best books I'veever read on war because it
talks about the things youcarry, both physically, you
know, what do you have in yourpack and mentally?
What mental pieces are youcoming into the battle with?
And I I really related that alot of times to my students.

(27:09):
Like, what mental baggage areyou carrying in and you know,
what what do you bring in inthat backpack?
Do you have lunch in there?
Do you have, you know, do youhave something that you're
holding on to dearly because youdon't have any place for it
because you don't have a home?
You know, and and I think thosethings carry over from our
childhood into our service, youknow, and even onto the athletic

(27:30):
fields and beyond.
So having somebody that's thereto mentor, uh, I was fortunate
to have a few people that reallychanged my trajectory in life.
And that's really been mypassion for for giving that back
in return.

SPEAKER_03 (27:44):
Well, one thing I've always been very curious in,
like with people that have ahigh level of, I guess,
emotional intelligence,especially to be a mentor and a
coach.
Um, what you just said too, likeresonates deeply with me.
And I'll share just a quickstory, uh, and then I'll shut up
and kick it back over to you.
Uh, but I remember being inAfghanistan, uh, the platoon I

(28:07):
took over had around 24 peopleat the time.
They deployed with 44.
Uh, they had a minimal manplatoon to where we couldn't
even drive some of our vehiclesthat we had.
So it was a striker battalionthat I first went to.
So they did a call out to ourcompany of like, hey, we're
looking for people to come uh tothis platoon.
Uh that yeah, it's a hard area,it's a hard problem set, but we

(28:30):
need people.
Hardly anyone volunteered otherthan what the quote unquote
leadership um challenges werewithin the company.
And I'm not gonna say names, butevery single one of those men
have my deep respect becauseone, they volunteered to come to
a place of hardship, and thentwo, um, they were some of the
best uh soldiers that I've everseen in my life.

(28:52):
And exactly what you did, andit's funny how we shared that is
that I was like, hey guys, likeyou have a clean slate with me.
Uh I'm all about deeds, notwords, and I don't look at your
past, I don't care what you'vedone in your past, uh, as long
as it doesn't violate one of myethical boundaries, right?
And you wouldn't be here if ifthat were the case.
Uh, you have a clean slate withme.
All I ask is that you give 100%a day, because that's all we can

(29:15):
do.
Uh, and then look after yourbrothers to your left and your
right.
And they were the best soldiersI've ever had.
And I've carried that mindset.
Sometimes it burns you, and I'llbe honest, like it's burnt me a
couple of times, but 99% of thetime it doesn't.
Um, and I always give people thebenefit of the doubt until I've
I've learned to not trust them.
But with you, what tools did youuse to connect with people from

(29:37):
like such a broad spectrum?
Because I know the Marine Corpslike that too.
You have inner city, you havepeople from the foothills of
Appalachia.
How did you learn to connectwith them to become like a coach
or a mentor?

SPEAKER_01 (29:49):
Well, I think it goes back to the listen to learn
and understand.
Um, you know, I say I taught inone of the most diverse rural
communities in The UnitedStates.
We were in the Poconos inPennsylvania.
Uh, when I when I actually whenI got stationed there on
recruiting duty in in 1991,there was a population of
64,000.

(30:10):
Ten years later, it was apopulation of 185,000.
So you had, you know, yourfarmers, the Pennsylvania Dutch
farmers in the West End thatdidn't like outsiders.
You had your townies, you hadfolks that lived up in the hills
and just wanted to be leftalone.
And then you took, you know, bigcity New York and plopped that
down over top of all of it withyou know different races,

(30:34):
different ethnicities, differentlanguages.
I was a president of our schoolboard for a while, and I
remember one of the statisticswas the vast amount of different
languages that were spoken athome in our, and that was just
one segment of the county, justyou know, four different school
districts.
I was like, wow, what diversepopulations.
So, you know, to reallycomprehend, like you were

(30:56):
saying, you know, if you'recoming from the coal mining
regions, which I recruited incoal mining regions in
Pennsylvania, um, you know, andsomebody says, Hey, would you
come out to my house?
Sure, where do you live?
Well, we live at patch numberfive.
What's patch number five?
Just five little houses, youknow, a couple houses around the
one of the mine shafts.
That was a patch.
So you, you know, to learn andand one, I think it's important

(31:20):
to take the time and energy andeffort to want to learn about
them, learn about where theycame from, learn about their
cultures.
Uh, when you do, wow, what avast experience.
I mean, think of your travels.
How much more do you learn justfrom traveling and meeting
different people?
Um, and when when you bring allof that together in one spot,

(31:41):
you know, that's a huge, hugepiece.
Um, you know, understanding whythey believe the way they
believe, you know, what makesthem tick.
And when it comes down to whatyou really find is that you have
a whole lot more in common thanyou do apart.
Um, you know, I watched some ofthe struggles that we had with
two of my platoon mates in bootcamp that came from very

(32:03):
different backgrounds and verydifferent upbringings, and it
led to them you know gettinginto a little bit of a uh
scuffle while we were out at therifle range.
Unfortunately, it was rightbefore the series commander came
walking by and had us all out inour skivys doing the uh the
digging in the sand pits.
Um, but by the end, they werebunk mates and best friends
because they they got to knoweach other and got to learn.

(32:26):
So I think if if you take thetime to really learn and get to
know your people and appreciatethe difference in cultures, you
know, it it provides one, theyknow you care.
And if you're going to mentorthem, they've got to believe
that you care, not just sayingit.
Words, words are one thing.
Um, like you said, deeds are awhole different component.

(32:47):
Um, and being there when it'simportant, you know, and in
today's technology age, I Ithink probably the most
important part of that is areyou present?
You know, how often do you see Isee it all the time where you
know, well, I'm so busy as aleader, I don't have time.
I'm I'm gonna type on here andtalk to you over here where

(33:07):
you're not really payingattention.
That person doesn't feel likeyou care.
Like, all right, I'm anafterthought.
Take the time when you're withsomeone to be present in the
moment and really give them yourundivided attention and make
them feel like they're the mostimportant person in the world to
you right now.
If you do that, wow.

(33:29):
I mean, I have a for a couple offriends that my wife and I talk
about all the time, like, wow,they make you feel so special
every time you're around thembecause you are the most
important thing to them at thattime.
So when you can do that forother people, it just opens up a
whole new world of people thatare willing to listen and learn

(33:49):
and and uh allow you to be amentor.
You know, they've got to let youin.
And what if you're gonna beeffective, they've got to let
you in, and that's beingpresent.

SPEAKER_03 (33:58):
Yeah, you have to you have to build um trust.
And I think trust comes throughmutual respect and then time.
Those are the two variables.
And one of the most powerfullessons that I learned was
actually from when I made thetransition from the infantry to
acquisitions, one of my bosses,um, Colonel Fraser, don't forget

(34:18):
this man.
He was an aviator, it was aheight of COVID, uh, but he kind
of like embraced me uh because Iwas the only weirdo coming into
this like four-star or four umstory building.
But he had a separate table uhin his office.
And at that table was twochairs, you know, some mints or
whatever.
And no one ever set on that.
Um, and I was always curious,like, hey sir, like what's with

(34:42):
this table?
And he's like, Well, when I haveone-on-one's and that's where we
did our initial counseling,that's for uh a one-on-one
discussion.
If someone needs to come talk tome, there's no electronics
allowed there, um, there's nodistractions allowed there, it's
just me and the other person,and we're gonna have a candid
conversation.
Uh, and that's always stuck withme.
And I've I've done that in thepast, but I didn't realize I was

(35:04):
doing that.
I've always tried to beintensely focused uh with
someone when they're talking tome and listen from an unselfish
lens, if that makes sense.
Is like I'm not looking forthings that I can use to benefit
myself.
I'm looking for things from anempathetic point of view of
like, hey, what are youstruggling with?
How can I help you?
And then how can we continue tomove forward together

(35:27):
collectively?
Um, so that's awesome.
Uh, and I love that.
That and it's a theme too thatI've noticed with you, you know,
throughout your Marine Corpswhere you talked about the
beginning of the episode tillnow, the connecting with people
and just being authentic and andcaring, I think is the most
important.

SPEAKER_01 (35:43):
Yeah, I mean, think about when you walk into a room,
you know, and and people aretalking and you come upon
somebody, oh, you know them, andthey start talking to you.
But the whole time they'retalking to you, they're scanning
to see if there's somebody, youknow, that might further them to
talk to better.

SPEAKER_03 (35:58):
100%.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (35:59):
You know, and even if you're thinking that, at
least don't don't portray that.
Give that person that's in frontof you the time.
You'll gain so much more from ityourself, but you'll also make
them feel important.
Um, but you see that all thetime, and that's that's a shame.

SPEAKER_03 (36:14):
I I wish you would have told me that before I went
to SoftWake two weeks ago,because I guarantee you half the
conversations.
I was trying to find ways out,not not because I didn't want to
have a conversation, it's like Ijust needed a break.
Uh so I was looking at that forthe exit sign, so I'm sure that
probably wasn't well received.

SPEAKER_01 (36:30):
You know, and and look, when you're in a situation
like that too, there is there isoverload at some point, and that
that can be challenging, but youknow, it's take the time and
give them that five minutes ofundivided attention, and then
it's okay to say, hey, look, I Iappreciate having the time, but
I do have to excuse myself.
There's ways of doing it thatstill still meet the uh the

(36:52):
intent.

SPEAKER_03 (36:54):
I love that.
So transitioning uh first time,right, out of the Marine Corps.
Uh, I know you went into thereserves and you pursued your
passion for education.
Can you kind of walk me throughthat experience?
Because that didn't happen.
What what I know about you is itdidn't happen probably uh as
most people's educationalcareers go.
You had to you had a journey.

SPEAKER_01 (37:16):
A little bit.
I I say it's you know the pathyou take sometimes, you have no
idea it's coming.
So that's what I our youngestjust graduated college between
my wife and I.
We have six, and the youngestjust graduated.
Like, look, you do not have tohave it all figured out at 22
years old.
We changed careers mid-50s, youknow, completely changed our

(37:36):
life in many different ways.
Yeah, I I had been marriedbefore, and my ex didn't care
for the military too much, andwe had uh three younger boys
that were well at the time Itransitioned out.
I had one younger son that hadjust been born.
Uh so I stayed home as astay-at-home dad during the day,
transitioned into the reserves,went back to school to get my

(37:58):
teaching degree.
I had spent eight years onrecruiting duty.
Part of the reason I wound up onrecruiting duty so long is I was
at the point of of my end of myfirst recruiting tour.
I had an opportunity to put in awarrant officer package or stay
on recruiting.
And as I said, my spouse at thetime did not care about the
military too much and was like,I'm not going anywhere.

(38:20):
So I and I I love recruiting, soit wasn't a bad thing, but I
stayed on recruiting duty andand really working with the high
school age students was a youknow, seeing the fact that they
needed somebody to mentor them.
I can't tell you how many timesI'd have kids come in and like,
well, what do your parentsthink?
Well, my parents don't care whatI do.
And what's what's the root ofthat whole statement?

(38:42):
Is my parents don't care.
Doesn't mean their parentsdon't, but that is the
perception that that youngperson has.
Um, and I heard that way toooften.
And kids that just lacked anythought of direction where they
might go.
And it didn't matter whether itwas coming in the Marine Corps,
having some direction of wherethey're going to head.

(39:03):
It doesn't have to be the end ofthe road, but at least start
down that path.
Have some kind of journey thatyou're heading on and know that.
So that kind of drove me when Iwas looking to transition.
All right, well, this issomething that I could do to
continue working with those sameyouth.
I can continue my Marine Corpscareer in in the reserve
component.

(39:23):
You know, and I was I'd alreadystarted coaching.
I had coached some youth leaguesports while I was on recruiting
duty, uh, connected with acouple of folks and uh allowed
me to get started with someyouth programs in football and
baseball, which I we alwaysloved coaching and working with
the with the younger kids.
So it just fit naturally.
Uh, when back to school at 32,definitely a different uh you

(39:44):
know, when you're sitting thereand the kid behind you, yeah,
this is my third time takingthis course, you're taking a
basic history course.
Let me guess, mom's paying.
Well, how'd you know?
Because if you were paying, youwouldn't be taking it three
times.
Yep.
Yeah, just a different focus.
Knew why I was there, knew whatI wanted to achieve from it.
Probably was much better offgoing back at that age because

(40:04):
I, you know, once I went intoMarine Corps, I said I was never
going to college.
Uh, never's a long time.
So I say never say never.
I said I'd never run a marathon.
Well, I did one of those.
Um, so you, you know, it's it'sreally what you put your mind
to.
That was my real focus in movinginto to education was to
continue what I had started inrecruiting and working with the

(40:28):
young people.
And I figured it was a great wayto continue having an impact on
our youth, but also maintain youknow my military career.

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(41:20):
further at 10th Mountain Whiskeyand Spirit Company.
Back to the show.
And that that's that's aquestion I was thinking about
asking too.
Um, is what lessons did you pullupon from the Marine Corps time
from that you've gained the lensof leadership to applying that

(41:40):
as a teacher and even as acoach?
Were there similarities, uhthings that were common between
both that helped you?

SPEAKER_01 (41:48):
Oh, absolutely.
I I say all the time thatcollege was a means to the end.
Um, in order to become ateacher, you got to graduate
college and you know, pass yourcertification exams.
But that was about the extent ofwhat I really took into the
classroom.
What I took into the classroomwas what I learned in the Marine
Corps, how to how to deal withyoung people.

(42:09):
You know, people, oh, how areyoung people today compared?
Young people today are nodifferent than they were 50
years ago.
They reflect society, but theway you treat them is the way
you're going to get treatedback.
You know, and it's it's notabout just telling somebody what
to do.
I I that's the last thing youwant to be doing is always
telling somebody what to do.
Because if you're telling themwhat to do, they're just gonna

(42:30):
rebel.
I would go out there when whenwe were doing conditioning all
summer long for football.
I was out there conditioningwith with my I coach freshman in
in high school football.
Um it's like, nope, if I'm gonnahave you run sprints, I'm gonna
run them with you.
And if I'm beating you, we'regonna keep running.
Um so you know it builds that umthat trust that hey bonding as a

(42:57):
team, team is only strong as itsweakest links.
Um, and and I think you know,those are lessons that we we
learn in the military.
How do we how do we pull peopletogether as a team?
It's a little different whenyou're in boot camp because you
got that very controlledenvironment.
But a lot of that same principleworks well whether you're you're
you know, especially coaching ateam because you hopefully have

(43:17):
set a vision and you all havethat same vision of winning, you
know, whether it's a game, achampionship, you know, what
does it take to get there?
And teaching that that's done inthe offseason, not in the you
know, during the during a game.
Focusing on the little things,doing the little things right,
if you know discipline,attention to detail, you know,
being able to evaluate film notfor your highlight realm, but

(43:41):
for what mistakes did I make andhow do I improve that?
You know, it's easy to practicethe things you're good at.
I you know, I love John Wooden.
He just look, I'm going to teachand we're going to institute our
game plan and make peoplerespond to us.
And if you do those littlethings well and you practice
those things that you're weakestat and make them stronger, by

(44:03):
the end of the season, we'regoing to be unbeatable.
Um, and and those are all, Ithink, very valuable leadership
lessons from the military.
You know, how do you how do youhandle your classroom?
Well, I'm not going to callsomebody out in front of their
fellow students.
I'll pull them aside and havethat conversation with them.
And, you know, holding peopleaccountable.
Um and when I say accountable,you have to be responsible for

(44:26):
your actions.
You know, we we talked about,hey, giving people that second
chance.
Well, you can't really givesomebody a second chance until
they have uh takenresponsibility for their
previous action.
And I've only ever had one ortwo that I I couldn't get to see
that.
And they were typically the onesthat all right, well, then we're
gonna have to to process you outbecause you've you've given us

(44:49):
no alternative.
But as long as you takeresponsibility for your previous
action, you paid theconsequences, now you get a
clean start.
And and I think that's the sametype of thing.
It's hard for students,especially when you're getting
them at the high school level,because so many have already
gotten so many limiting beliefs.
Well, I I suck at math, I'm notgood at this.

(45:10):
Oh, yeah.
And to change that around, um,to undo 15 years worth of of
that, whether it's coming fromparents, previous teachers,
previous coaches, their own, youknow, negative speak, creating
that trusted environment wherethey can fail and and move
forward.

(45:31):
You know, come into schoollooking for knowledge.
Don't come into school for agrade because you can cheat and
get a good grade.
But when the end of the day, ifyou come in and you focus on
knowledge, the grades willfollow and you will have so much
more opportunity.
Now we said knowledge is powerand it's the power of choice.
You know, the more knowledge youhave, the more choices you have.

(45:52):
Um, you know, it's it and itthat's you know, it's just how
do we how do we impart that ontoour young?
Um when people complain aboutour youth today, I'm like, look
in the mirror.
You created that.
They are products of theirenvironment and they need more
positive role models.
Um you know, if we want ourmilitary force to stay strong,

(46:13):
that's up to especially usveterans, it's up to us to what
did we get?
Look, this was this was a hugepiece of who I am today.
I I look at the the leadershipopportunities, the mentoring
that I had there.
Uh my gosh, the opportunitiesthat I had to experience life
propelled me to where I am todayand is is the foundation of

(46:35):
everything that I do.
So, you know, that is the samething that it can offer our
youth today.
You know, if if all everybodytalks about is that, oh, all
veterans are broken and they'rethey're crazy and they no,
that's that's not the case atall.
Again, we're one percenters.
You know, that that we havealready shown that we can thrive
above the average person, andthat is going to set you apart.

(46:59):
Um, you know, and I I thinkthere's a lot of folks in
business that see that, not asmany as should.
Um, but you know, you take thatthat raw person with that
ability, what can't you moldthem to do?
You know, I I can teach you todo anything, but you got to come
with that that foundation.
Um, you come with thatfoundation and willingness to

(47:21):
learn, we can teach you anythingthat you need to know.

SPEAKER_03 (47:24):
Yeah, that I I uh echo that sentiment that um I
believe veterans when they getout are a bigger impact for uh
America and the United States,the nation as a whole, versus
when they served.
Because when they served, liketheir awesomeness is contained
into their sphere of influence.
But when you get out, um you canimpact huge levels of people,

(47:48):
especially in large companies.
And arguably that's where it'smost important because what you
just said, people don't seethose types of shared values,
those principles, thosecharacteristics implemented
every day because they live inwhat society allows them to see
in a way.
In the military and the MarineCorps, there are distinct core
values and beliefs that everyoneshare.

(48:13):
The selfless service, honor,integrity, duty, things like
that that we all have.
And when you get out and youtransition out, uh I will say
that I will take a veteran oversomeone who just has a college
degree any day of the weekbecause they're coming with one
of the biggest things isresilience.
Uh, if one thing captured myentire military career, it would

(48:37):
be resilience and adaptability.
Like I I was an infantry officerin Afghanistan, and they charged
me with developing 5k worth ofroad and building these
buildings.
It's like, well, that's whatengineers do.
I close with and destroy theenemy.
I go pew pew with my gun.
Like, it's like, no, we need youto go build these roads and
build these homes.
And I was like, all right, well,I'll I'll find a way.

(48:59):
And I've always had that mindsetbeyond that is like, hey, like
the next job I'm going into, Ihave no idea what I'm going to
do, but I'm going to go in therecoachable, curious, and
committed, the three C's.
And if I take those things, I'lllearn.
And then um and then apply thatto anything in life.
And so you, um, what you'redoing at Robert Irvine
Foundation and then veterans,what they're doing across this

(49:21):
nation is exactly what we weneed.
And I love how you talked abouta lot of times people uh focus
on goals, like just trying toget something short term, and
then you fall into the like adopamine kick uh of where we're
always chasing that next hit.
And I had to learn about thistoo, is that I need to think uh
inside out.
Who do I want to become?

(49:42):
What are the behaviors orcharacteristics that need to be
implement uh implemented?
And at the end of the day, uhwhat what are the outcomes?
If I focus on the outcomesfirst, then I will never find uh
joy and fulfillment in thingsbecause every day is something
else that you have to do, butyou have to find joy and
fulfillment in becomingsomething bigger than yourself.

(50:03):
So all that was 100% fire.
Um, I again I think I'm on fourpages of notes now, so keep
going.

SPEAKER_01 (50:10):
Yeah, and the goal piece is something that I you
know everybody knows StephenCovey and and that whole goal
piece, but really one of thethings that was I think a big
change for me over the the last10 years, even was you know, I
began reading.
I I read before, but you know, alot of leadership stuff in the

(50:32):
Marine Corps and and so forth,but it was not until I read a
James Clear um Atomic Habits,you know, and and changing the
process.
Because you have a goal, youachieve the goal, okay.
When you know, so many peoplethink, well, when I get there,
I'm gonna be happier.
When I get no, that that thatdoesn't create happiness.
Being fulfilled creates thehappiness, and you know, you
create that happiness on yourown.

(50:53):
But if you have the processdown, you will not only achieve
the goal, you will exceed thegoal and keep going because the
process is what allows you togrow and keep moving forward.
You know, and I changed it towhere I changed my whole morning
routine.
I I'm a habit stacker.
I get up in the morning, I drinkmy coffee, I read, I journal,
lay out my day, I get my work atin, usually get a hike in in the

(51:15):
morning, clear the brain, sitdown, now I'm ready to go to
work.
But I say used to read a book ayear.
Now I read a book every twoweeks.
Yeah.
Just the amount of knowledge youfactor in that, you know, the
people that are writing most ofthose books have 20 years, 30
years of experience.
So if you're compressing that 20years of experience into two
weeks, take that times you know,26 weeks throughout the year.

(51:39):
Are you going to retaineverything?
No, but you certainly retain ahuge amount, and you start to
see the overlap and how thosethings all tie together.
And you know, it's it's aboutcontinual learning, continual
improvement, um, both personallyand professionally.
Leadership isn't something that,oh, I know it all.
You'll never know it all.

(52:00):
You know, there's alwayssomething to be learned.
You know, I I love working withRobert.
Um, you know, he's a phenomenalmentor.
The the leadership that heprovides, and I see it
everywhere we go, um, whetherit's young entrepreneurs,
veterans, you know, our militarychefs, he's constantly evolving
his own leadership and and howhe deals with people.

(52:23):
Um, you know, and and I thinkseeing those different groups of
leaders as you evolve yourselfgives you something more to pull
from.
Are you going to be able toemulate exactly what somebody
else does?
No, and you shouldn't.
Take what they're doing and seehow that fits into your life and
your personality.
What can I take from that thatwill enhance what I'm doing?

(52:45):
And it's a continual process.
And, you know, sometimes you youcircle back on something because
you hear it, like, oh, okay,yeah, that that's something I
haven't really been implementingin my life recently, but I need
to get back to that becausethere's always, you know, I
always say there's there'salways 40 hours of work to be
had.
That's that's never an issue.

(53:06):
But how do I focus on mypriorities, both personally and
professionally, that are goingto have those largest outcomes
and take us to where we want togo.
Focus on those priorities,whether it's the 80-20 rule, um,
you know, or or you know, eatingyour frog, whatever, however you
want to look at that particularpiece, but focus on those things

(53:28):
that are going to have thebiggest outcomes.
And you know, that I think ifyou do that, you you'll continue
to grow, you'll continue tolearn and continue to succeed.

SPEAKER_03 (53:37):
Yeah, 100%.
I agree with everything yousaid.
And James Clear's book, umAtomic Habits, uh, was
instrumental in me kind ofdeveloping that mindset.
Uh, and thank God for Audible,because I just don't have the
time to read.
So, like the car rides andstuff, um, sitting in the saunas
in the morning, uh, like if itwasn't for Audible, I would I

(53:58):
would be on struggle bus.
But because of Audible, ahundred percent.
I I'm I'm with you.
I find myself getting into twoor three books at a time, and
then like getting lost in abook, and then be like, oh, I
forgot about this book.
And then uh I try to do at leasttwo a week.
Um, just having to podcast too.
I if you were to write a book, Iwould 100% read your book before
you come on the show, and thenthat's a challenge too, uh, to

(54:22):
consume that much information ata time.
And I think that's a beautifultransition uh to where you're at
actively right now in yourleadership journey.
So yeah, through the MarineCorps, we're a teacher, a
mentor, a coach, uh, and thennow transitioning into what
you're doing within the RobertIrvine Foundation.
How did you land um on workingwithin within that nonprofit?

SPEAKER_01 (54:46):
Well, we had my wife and I have both done nonprofit
work for 25 years.
Uh you know, I'd been withCentrifying America's Fund,
doing fundraising for them,helped set up their community
athlete program.
You know, I was the board chairfor our local Northeast PA and
Northwest New Jersey LeukemiaLymphoma Society.
My wife was board chair for ourlocal YMCA.

(55:08):
Um, and we had done numerousother fundraising activities and
community leadership, schoolboards, zoning boards, and
things of that nature.
So we actually they were in theprocess of doing an$18 million
renovation while my wife was theboard chair of our local Y, and
that had failed a few timesbefore they tried it.
She said, look, they don't havethe capacity for any grant

(55:30):
writers, so why don't we take acourse?
Because if your wife's the boardchair, you're the assistant
board chair.
And so took took a grant writingcourse and and through the
process, you know, we took onethat was just antiquated, and I
said we came across ourmillennial connection, younger,
younger folks that had a new newapproach to it, and we actually
developed a really goodrelationship with with the two

(55:52):
of them with our years ofexperience on the nonprofit side
as fundraisers and as boardleaders, and taking what they
knew as far as the grant writingperspective.
And so we we started a littleside business while I was
teaching.
My wife's a chiropractor, um,you know, doing grant writing,
and found we did a lot moreconsulting, especially for

(56:12):
younger, mostly militarynonprofits, helped out a few
friends as well.
But you know, we used to say yougot to get grant ready before
you can start to do grants,building that foundation.
So we did a lot of consultingwork, building organizations,
building their foundations andgetting them to where they
needed to be, whether it wasgetting their you know, IRS

(56:33):
501c3 designation, had to fix alot of their articles in
corporation at times.
So, you know, did a lot of did alot of homework and a lot of
gained a lot of knowledge inthat regard.
Um, and that led to my wife thenbecoming the uh grants and uh
corporate relations manager forthe armed services YMCA serving
young military families.

(56:53):
And about two months later, uhwe met Robert at an event, a
fundraising event in uh theLansdale PA.
And they were just starting thisreuniting the Brave program.
Great, fabulous program, one ofone of my favorite things that
we do.
And he's like, Well, we'd reallynever done any grants in the
past.

(57:13):
It had been, you know, when hestarted a program, uh the
foundation had been apass-through.
Uh, but he really wanted tofocus on you know physical,
mental, um, nutritional wellnessof our active forces and our
veteran community and theirfamilies and our first
responders as well, anybody thatserves.
Um, it's like so before youleave here, make sure you talk
to Judy, our president, JudithOtter.

(57:35):
You know, and one thing led toanother.
And so I came on board um tohelp with the the grant writing
and and foundation um you knowrelationships.
Um and that has since then ledto other parts of what I do with
the foundation.
We we got connected with theface-to-fight coalition, which

(57:55):
USAA, uh, Reach Resilience andHumana uh funded, but it's it's
now 258 partner uh veteranservice organizations that are
dealing with veteran suicide.
And we were fortunate to be oneto get a grant to incorporate
evidence-based uh strategies.
We do crisis response planning,safety planning, lethal means

(58:16):
safety strategies.
It's self-management tools forour our veteran community, and
and actually we've worked with alot of active duty uh folks too
and their families to createthis self-management tool so
that if you get into a crisis,you have the means to deal with
that and you know do somethingdifferent than what has been
done to bring down a suicidenumber.
So we're incorporating that intoall of our programs.

(58:39):
So I have the opportunity tokind of spearhead that and and
lead that initiative within thefoundation.

SPEAKER_02 (58:45):
Um, but Robert's a very persuasive individual, and
I'd uh I watched him on TV, I'msure he is, and I've had a
conversation with him.
So in person is probably uh verypersuasive.

SPEAKER_01 (58:57):
He is, you know, and you talk about that leadership
and and the person who does whatthey expect you to do.
There's nobody that is givingback more to the veteran and
active duty community than thanRobert.
He is on the road so many daysout of the year, and whether
he's it was just a DAV, PatriotBoot camp mentoring young

(59:19):
military entrepreneurs, he'llevery time he travels to a base,
they work with military chefsand are working on revamping our
entire food, um, the way we feedour uh our our troops.
Uh, you know, I was just at awellness seminar not too long
ago and you know, looking at theobesity rates.
Well, what are we gonna do tochange that?
And he's working hard uh to makesure that we're you know giving

(59:43):
our troops the nutrition theyneed.
How do you how can you go outthere and do your job on the
battlefield if you're not fueledappropriately?
And so everything that he doesand and leads from the front
makes it, you know, you gottakeep pace.
So you can't can't let Robert uhbe out there.
By himself.
So, you know, that's kind of thethe I don't know, it's it

(01:00:04):
definitely is a motivator for meis when you work with somebody
like that that has that passionand shares your passion for
giving back and and taking careof our military community and
and our families.
It's uh it's a passion, it'sit's not necessarily work.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:19):
I I agree a hundred percent.
I think people people like thatwho are have the passion and the
purpose, like both aligned.
I call it head-heart-handalignment.
Um, if if they could see it, ifthey have that intrinsic
motivation, they just feel thatit's so much easier to do the
work to get your hands aroundsomething.
And someone like that is justvery charismatic.

(01:00:39):
Um, they're infectious in a wayto be around.
Like great leaders I've seenwithin the military or in the
civilian world, too.
People seek them out to workwith them because they're so
passionate, they're socharismatic, they're so
inspiring in a way that it'sjust easy to do work and achieve
great things because it's justit's just normal.
And I love how the Robert IrvineFoundation focuses on like

(01:01:01):
multiple different pillars too.
Because like with me, I thinkthat there's there's different
pillars um or buckets that weall have to be complete and to
be the best individual that youcan be.
There's different level levels,right?
Balance, I think, is impossible,but finding harmony in those.
So um I wrote these down ofcovering food, wellness, um,

(01:01:22):
financial support.
It's really like a holisticapproach to I think the root
cause preventing suicide.
And I you and I share thatpassion.
I think with me, uh, because weall have shared experiences,
right?
And there's too many names tokind of go down.
But with me, I'm trying totackle it from showing other
people there's a different wayto lead.

(01:01:43):
You can be a purposeful,accountable leader, you can be
transformational, you can beinspiring, and and your actions
will have deep impacts acrossothers.
Um, but we all are trying tocrack the same nut and at the
end of the day to just lower thethe number of soldiers who
actually do take their life.
And there's something you hintedat there, and I wondered if you
could get deeper into that.

(01:02:04):
Suicide protection versusprevention.
What are the distinguishingbetween those?

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:10):
Yeah, it's a great question.
It was something I you knowuntil about a year ago, I really
wasn't clear on it myself.
When you look at most of whatour veteran organizations do, we
provide protections andisolation, you know, give people
a purpose, um, reconnect them.

(01:02:32):
You know, just isolation isthere's there's so many
different uh causes, but they'renot always visible.
Um, you know, so things like ourreuniting the brave, where we
bring units back together thatserve together.
We bring the families in, webring the gold star families in,
we bring the families of thefallen in, you know,
reconnecting them.

(01:02:53):
You know, we talked earlier, whodo you have your closest
connection with?
Those who you went through themost trying times with.
So when you can reconnect thosefolks, wow, what a difference it
makes.
Literally, it saves lives.
We've had, you know, feedbackfrom from some of our attendees.
That you know, I the one thatsticks out to me is um we had a
gathering of 500 Coast Guardrescue swimmers and Gulf Shores

(01:03:15):
last June, and one of theswimmers came with the intention
of saying goodbye.
Got there.
His wife had no idea that he wasstruggling, got there, got
talking to you know his fellowswimmers, and that's a very
tight-knit community.
There's only 1,185 of them since1985.
And just to listen to otherstalk and the fact that, hey, the

(01:03:36):
other people are struggling withthe same things that I'm
struggling with, and that it'sokay, you know, it's okay to
have those struggles.
But what do we need to do to goforward and and move forward?
The fact that he's now connectedwith those folks again and he's
thriving, you know, not that hedoesn't still have some
struggles, but they stayconnected.
Um, and you know, even for thespouses having that opportunity

(01:03:59):
that where they can, you know,reconnect.
Some of them, I would say thenew spouses that are out there
because they weren't with theirservice member when they were
serving, they get to now have aresource with other spouses that
they can talk to, you know,about similar situations and
recognizing that, hey, what myspouse has gone through is not
unique.
There's others and there'sresources out there to help us.

(01:04:21):
You know, so it's reallyimportant to have those types of
protections in in place.
Um, whether it's equine therapy,you know, dog therapy, some of
the service to hucks are thewhat they can do is incredible
from detecting heart rate todiabetes to you know stress.
Um it's incredible.
So what works for one might notwork as well for the other.

(01:04:44):
We know that the medicationisn't necessarily the best
option.
So how do we how do we do thingsthat are you know prevention?
So doing a Columbia screening,you know, that's it's a simple
six questions.
You might ask question one anddepending on how they answer
that, skip to question numbersix.
Organizations like Vet forWarriors that you know it's a

(01:05:05):
people call in, they screenevery single veteran that calls
in there now.
And just through the screening,people talk because the question
is asked.
Um, and that's important.
When we do crisis responseplanning or we do safety safety
planning, I I I like to think ofit as a safety plan regardless,
because you know, it's for thebad day, whenever you're going

(01:05:28):
to have a bad day.
And nobody knows when that'sgoing to be.
And we've all lost people andwe've all had our own struggles
at different times, you know,maybe not to that extent, but
we've had those bad days andwhere you start to spiral and
recognizing what those signs arein yourself.
You know, and it's it's assimple as putting it on a three
by five card.
What are those things that I'mstruggling with?

(01:05:49):
You know, what sends me intothat spiral?
Then what kind of things can wedo to, you know, is it is it hit
a punching bag?
Is it go out for a walk with adog?
Is it listen to heavy metalmusic, whatever it is that that
helps us calm down and brings usdown from that?
Great.
Who's that trusted person thatwe can call?
The person that's not going tobe judgmental, and that's the

(01:06:11):
key.
You can't be judgmental whensomebody's reaching out to you.
Um again, go back, listen tolearn and understand.
Um, that's important.
Or being able to uh know yourreasons for living, and then in
the end is having a you know911, 988, Vets for Warriors, who

(01:06:31):
can I call in that last ditcheffort?
And you know, that's a that's anintervention or prevention
strategy because it's aself-management tool that you
can put on a three by five card,you can put a safety plan on
your phone.
Um, you know, that can go withyou anywhere.
Lethal means safety.
You know, what's the reason?
One of the major reasons veteransuicide is so much higher.

(01:06:53):
We tend to use weapons and wehave access to weapons.
So what can you do to reduceaccess?
Use a cable lock, use a gunbox,you know, Overwatch project uses
magnets.
I could say, Josh, hey, wouldyou put your phone number on
here for me?
So I I know I'm responsible forcalling you before I open that
gunbox and do the same for eachother.

(01:07:16):
And you know, it's it's thatextra step because we're talking
about a five-minute uh window.
We got to get you through thatthat crisis to get you back down
to to to make it to the nextday.
And that's those are preventionstrategies.
You know, three, and there'sthere's some others, but those
are you know three majorprevention strategies.

(01:07:38):
The protections are how do weend the isolation, how do we get
your purpose again, um, youknow, reconnecting with with
those resources that you mayneed, but really I think some of
that is the personal connection.
And you know, I think BuddyCheck Week is kind of going in
that direction, that thatdirection of that protection.

(01:07:58):
But it's more than just, youknow, hey, how you doing?
And you never really wait forthe response.
Really having the conversation,like, how are things going,
Josh?
Are things, you know, how'swork?
How's the family?
Having that little bit moredetailed contact with those that
are closest to us.
I talked about a reunitingbrave.

(01:08:20):
The one thing that always I Ilooked at was, all right, well,
who's not here?
And they would give me a couplepeople, I was like, let's reach
out to them while we're here.
So that they're coming togethernext time you guys get together,
they're part of it.
So reach out, have aconversation with them because
if they're not here, they're theones I worry about.
They're not reconnecting withthat number one resource that

(01:08:42):
they have, which is the purpose,people they served with.
So, you know, how do we createthose protective environments?
Um you know, and I I always sayto really move forward when
you're when you're talking aboutsuicide, we're all vulnerable,
right?
And when you when you look atvulnerability, um Brene Brown

(01:09:03):
did this in a presentation shedid with some special forces
units.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:06):
I love her books, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:08):
Oh, she's fabulous.
Uh, she talked about being umyou know working working with
Army Special Forces, and she gotthere and she said, I'm nervous.
She says, They're looking at me.
I'm sure, like, what the heck isshe gonna offer us today?
Um and like, look, I just askyou one question and then we'll
go forward from there.
So, how many of you have everbeen in a vulnerable situation

(01:09:30):
that required bravery?
And it was dead silent.
And she said it I it felt likeforever, probably was only like
30 seconds, but it felt like itwas 10 minutes.
She said, Finally, somebodysaid, All right, let's get
started.
And you think about that.
I don't care whether you're afirst responder, you're running
into a burning building wheneverybody's running out, you're
going into a live shootersituation when everybody else is

(01:09:50):
scattering, or you're you know,getting ready to cross that line
of debarcation into a combatenvironment, you're vulnerable
and it requires bravery.
But when I think about, wetalked about it earlier, when
you're stepping forward, it'sthat bravery and it's thinking
about the person to your rightand your left.
You know, that whole patriotismthing sounds great, but in that

(01:10:12):
moment, it's not aboutpatriotism.
It's about making sure you'reprotecting each other's lives so
that you can get home to yourloved ones.
And that brave space to whereyou have that person on your
right and left is, I think, whatwe need to create more of in our
veteran and our active dutycommunity, because the active
duty community is dealing with alot of suicides as well.

(01:10:32):
And society is as a whole.
But how do we create that bravespace and we provide that left
and right flank for for eachother and truly be there and be
concerned and and take the time?
I I've been working on reachingout to at least one friend every
day, whether it's a text, um,just a return.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:54):
That's a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:55):
You know, I'm I'm certainly not certainly not a
perfect habit yet, but it's it'ssomething that I I I think about
and I work on every day, whetherit's quick message, quick text,
you know, and and that I thinkif we all did that and we all
took the time to be there and bepresent for each other, that's
what's going to change thetrajectory in our suicide in our

(01:11:18):
in our community is being thereand the VA is not going to fix
it, the government's not goingto fix it.
We need to fix it ourselves andand provide that that brave
space for each other.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:29):
Yeah.
If it's to be, it's up to theright.
Like uh I uh as you weretalking, it's funny, my mind was
thinking through like a combatarms mission planning scenario.
So we all have like a decisivepoint, like within a battle of
where you either win or lose.
And in suicide prevention, youknow, that five minutes where
you just talked about, likethat's the decisive point.

(01:11:50):
So, what do we have at ourdisposal um for uh either
offensive or defensiveoperations, right?
That can help us overcome thatthat decisive point.
So we have the market advantage,not just then, but like moving
forward.
And like how you how youstructured that and then what
you're doing too is like superimpactful.

(01:12:10):
So I just take a moment to saythank you uh for everything
you're doing now.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:16):
You know, it's it goes back to we've all lost, you
know, and and that's that's animportant thing.
I I I don't know.
I I always say my why is when Iwas born, I was born with
craniosenosis.
So I my soft spot on the top ofmy head grew shut too quick and
put pressure.
And I was fortunate to have beena surgeon in the army that you

(01:12:37):
know did tons of operations inKorea.
When I was born, my mom took meto her neurosurgeon.
She said, Look, I I would do sixsurgeries and there's no
guarantees, but this take him tosee Dr.
Linus.
He's been doing this newprocedure and it's once and
done.
I was fortunate.
You know, I have a scar, I got alittle bit of funky-shaped head,

(01:12:58):
but I survived that.
And because of having that newprocedure, it gave me the
opportunity to not just live,but to thrive.
And how can I help others dothat?
You know, the service is thenumber one way you can do that,
giving back.
You know, and and we're all veryfortunate to have what we have.
So how can we help others andand give back?

(01:13:19):
I always say you you get back 10times what you give.
And talk about that personalfulfillment, you know, seeing
seeing our veterans and theirfamilies thrive, you know,
there's nothing better than thanthat ability.
And that's I I love working withthe foundation because I get to
see that on a regular basis, youknow, whether it's providing an

(01:13:40):
IBOT for somebody, giving themthe independence and the
confidence back, seeing theservice dogs and what they mean
for a family, um, getting peopleback together, you know, and
just giving giving people avoice to talk in that space to
talk about their struggles.
And hey, we're here to work,work forward together.

(01:14:01):
Um, you know, because because wecan do this together.

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:04):
Yeah, no a hundred percent, brother.
So quickly, how can people findthe Robert Irvine Foundation,
either if they need a resourceor if they want to get involved
in some capacity?

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:15):
Sure, it's Robert Irvine Foundation.org.
You know, we're in the process.
We're gonna have a new websitecoming out that's gonna be a lot
more interactive and giveopportunities for people to
engage even that much more.
Um, obviously, we're across allthe social medias as well, but
you know, we always say ifpeople are interested, I always
throw out my email.

(01:14:35):
It's ryarnall at robert IrvineFoundation.org.
If people want us to come andand you know work with our
organization, we are alwayshappy to partner, and especially
when it comes to the suicideprevention and and teaching more
people the the importance andthe tools that are that are out
there and available, you know,to prevent that and you know
just to reconnect people too andand help help each other thrive.

(01:14:58):
And you know, there's so many ofour peer organizations out there
doing such great work.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:02):
So yeah, Robert, this has been uh a phenomenal
episode, a little bit longerthan an hour.
Uh I could keep going, but Idefinitely want to be respectful
of your time.
And I've learned so much fromyou.
I think I have now five pages ofnotes, and most importantly, I
feel inspired.
Uh, that's a mark of a greatepisode with me, is if um I have

(01:15:25):
a guest on that I callpurposeful, accountable leader
like yourself.
And I leave here to be inspiredto continue to take action.
Um, so thank you for everythingthat you're doing.
Uh, humbled to get to know youat a little bit deeper of a
level and uh just keep gettingafter it.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:41):
I appreciate it, Josh.
Thanks for your leadership anduh uh appreciate the time.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:45):
Have a great day, brother.
All right, team.
Time for our after actionreview.
Uh again, phenomenal episode byBob of kind of just breaking
down his leadership journey.
The first thing that I took fromuh my notes is leadership is all

(01:16:05):
about serving your people.
And I think oftentimes,especially people who are just
starting out in leadership, theylose sight of that.
Leadership's a privilege, it'snot a right.
You are taking that job on withthe understanding that there is
distinct responsibilities thatcome with it.

(01:16:26):
There are some privileges ofbeing a leader, but most of them
are all outweighed by theresponsibilities that you have
as a leader.
You have to be selfless and youhave to serve other people.
You have to take the blame whenyou're at fall and you have to
give away credit.
That's all the signs of atransformational leader, or what

(01:16:46):
I like to call a purposefulaccountable leader.
It's hard to be a leader becauseyou have to be devoted to the
mission, you have to spend thetime to go meet and know your
people, and you have to do it inan authentic manner.
Leadership's not easy, and it'snot for the faint of heart, like
the Ranger School slogan, and Imean that, is if you're not
ready for the challenge to be aleader, don't take the job.

(01:17:09):
Leadership's all about servingpeople.
If you can do that right, thenyou will crush everything else
uh that you will encounter.
Number two is learn from yourmistakes.
Uh, and here's a quote that Bobhad through the middle of this
podcast is listen to learn andunderstand not to respond.

(01:17:31):
That's beautiful.
And it's all about iterativedevelopment, like just in like
engineering.
When we iterate, we're buildingupon failures.
So if we think of it as a systemof a system, right?
Like within a drone, becausethat's the world I'm very
intimately familiar with,there's a critical component

(01:17:52):
within that drone that's notworking, that's causing the
drone to not fly correctly.
All right, well, now we need tolook at it from a root cause
analysis.
We need to figure out why itfailed.
After we identify that, we fixthat.
It now flies.
That's the whole process oflearning through mistakes as a

(01:18:13):
leader.
Is you're going to makemistakes.
That is just inevitable.
You will find ways to fail,trust me, especially in new
jobs, or you'll get complacentand you'll fail.
It's okay.
Failure is a part of theprocess, but let's redefine
failure.
Failure isn't final, failure isiterative.

(01:18:35):
We understand why we failed, wethen improve upon that, and we
move forward, and that's themost important part because
we're building upon it everysingle time.
And the last key takeaway that Ihad from this episode is
accountability.
That's a recurring theme, butit's very hard to do, right?
And we talked about this in thepast during this episode of you

(01:18:59):
know, both of us had soldiers orindividuals that worked with us
on a team that may have not beenthe best soldier or the best
Marine, but at the time we gavethem a clean slate, right?
They may have gotten in troublein the past, they took
accountability for theiractions, and then they came to

(01:19:19):
us with a clean slate, and weembraced them.
Being a leader, you have to walkthat line.
And the same is true for you, isthat your job is not to overlook
issues, your job is to correctissues, hold people accountable,
including yourself, understandwhy those issues happen.
Again, what we just talked aboutfor number two, being a learning

(01:19:42):
organization, and then movingforward.
And hey, the past is a past.
As long as you do not violateone of my ethical key points,
right?
A red line, then we can overcomethis.
And accountability is somethingthat you're going to have to do.
Again, this goes back to thefirst point.
Leadership isn't easy, it's hardto do.

(01:20:02):
And holding people accountablecan feel uncomfortable, and it
is because it is unnatural.
We don't want to haveconfrontation, but it doesn't
have to be negativeconfrontation.
Accountability is holding peopleaccountable, understanding that
they understand why they failed,having a get well plan and
moving forward.
Now there's a difference if theycontinue to make those same

(01:20:25):
mistakes or they violate yourethical compass, right?
They do something like lie,cheat, or steal, then that's a
different conversation.
But if they are failing becauseof the right reasons, then
holding them accountable is mucheasier.
All right, team, do me a favor.
I always ask this, but Isincerely mean it.
If you find value in thisepisode, help me spread the word

(01:20:46):
and spread this podcast.
So here are four simple stepsthat I would absolutely value.
Number one, make sure you like,share, and subscribe to this
podcast wherever you listen.
Number two, leave a review andsend me feedback.
I absolutely love hearingfeedback from listeners.
You can go to Buzz Sprout andshoot me some fan mail.
Number three, follow me onsocial media.

(01:21:08):
You can find me basically on anyplatform at Tells of Leadership.
And number four, if you want tosupport the show, you can do
that by becoming a show sponsoror donating, and go to tells of
leadership.buzzsprout.com andit'll all be laid out right
there.
All right, team.
As always, I'm your host, JoshMcMillian, saying every day's a

(01:21:29):
gift.
Don't waste yours.
I'll see you next time.

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#114 Robert Yarnall - From Battlefield Lessons to Everyday Leadership

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#114 Robert Yarnall - From Battlefield Lessons to Everyday Leadership