March 6, 2021 • 36 mins
What does dancing look like? It's a big question, but it's one that listeners have asked us many times, so we're gonna take a crack at it. The precision and perfection of Ballet, the wild spectacle of Swing, the strutting of Disco, and the mad skills of Hip Hop; we leave it all on the dance floor describing the look, the vibe, the movement, and even the fashions of well-known dance styles.
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JJ Hunt (00:04):
Talk description to me with Christine Malec and JJ
Hunt.
Christine Malec (00:29):
Hi, I'm Christine Malec.
JJ Hunt (00:30):
And I'm JJ Hunt. This is talk description to Me where
the visuals of current eventsand the world around us get
hashtag in description richconversations.
Christine Malec (00:47):
This week, we're going to talk about
something that we have hadseveral requests for, and that
is dancing, which is a hugelybroad category. But we had a
specific request from Molly andshe said something that I
completely resonated with, shesaid, when you're blind people
say, dance, it's easy, just movewith the music, and they act
(01:09):
like it's an innate thing, likewe all learn to walk. And, you
know, dancing is just like that.
But it isn't. And I thinksighted people or high partial
people you see dancing all ofyour life. And it's easy to
underestimate how important thatpart of learning dance is. The
fact that you've seen it so manytimes. And so when people say,
(01:33):
Oh, just it's easy, just move tothe music, and they act like
you're having a problem, becauseyou're just too uptight, you
just need to relax, and thenthings will go beautifully. And
it's actually not true. And so Iappreciated Molly's insights on
art, because it's summed upexactly how I feel about dance.
And so dance is a huge, broadcategory, we sort of broke it
(01:56):
down into a few, a few differentways to talk about it. But I
think, JJ, when we spoke beforewe started recording, you said
that you were actually surprisedat what what the challenge was
to start describing what was itlike for you when you started to
do your research.
JJ Hunt (02:16):
Totally. Well, you know, when we got that the most
recent email from Molly and we,we both were like, yes, this is
a great idea. This is fantastic.
I love it. It's so visual. Thisis gonna be great. And I sat
down to do my research, I satdown at my laptop and then went,
"How do I do this?!" It's reallya challenging idea. So first of
(02:36):
all, as you said, it's really,really broad, right? Dance.
There are so many differentstyles. And then within each
style of dance, there aresubcategories and different
steps. And it's, it was a bit ofa trip. Yeah. So I mean, what I
ended up doing was was breakingdown dance into a couple of big
(02:57):
broad categories ballet, swing,hip hop, disco. I tried to get
some big broad categories, maybeinstead of describing specific
dance steps, which would take usall day, if we were just going
to try and describe one dancestep after another, it would
take us all day, and I don'tknow if it would ever actually
(03:18):
get to what we're talking aboutwhich was, which is the look of
dance of a specific kind ofdance, the look and the feel,
and the vibe, and how the bodymoves while dancing to this kind
of music or that. So that's whatI spent my time doing is
researching the overall look.
(03:39):
And I got to say, it's been apretty fun week watching YouTube
videos of people dancing. It is,it is fun, it is joyful. It's
really nice, especially as a guywho doesn't dance very much
himself to like, indulge andother people dancing. It's been
a it's been a fun week, I gottasay.
Christine Malec (03:56):
So let's go back to the sort of the more
classical kind of dance which isballet. What can you tell us
about the overall look of that?
JJ Hunt (04:03):
Okay, so ballet is, of course, very formal. Rigid would
be too strong a word to describethe overall movement and the
overall feel, because there'sfluidity and there's grace in
the movement. But I would sayexacting. Ballet is all about
being exact and precise. And I'mtalking specifically about
(04:25):
classical ballet. classicalballet is a series of positions
and movements. And when you'rewatching ballet, what you're
seeing is dancers perform thoseprecise movements in a very
precise order. So myunderstanding is that ballet
choreography is very set. It'svery unambiguous, right? It's
(04:47):
like an orchestral score. Youcould have two ballet companies
dance the same choreography, andin theory, it should be near
identical. And so the art formis about achieving a kind of
perfection. And that's not justmy intellectual explanation of
(05:07):
ballet, that's consistent withhow I interpret the visuals as
well. So I'm not a balletaficionado, I'm but I have seen
a bit of ballet here and there.
Performers, they presentthemselves quite regally. So
you're standing tall, chin isup, back is straight. Women are
often on point, meaning they'rewalking on pointed toes.
Christine Malec (05:30):
Now, I've heard that, "on your toes". But
colloquially to me being on yourtoes actually means you're on
the ball of your foot is thatwhat this means in ballet, or
are you literally on the tips ofyour toes?
JJ Hunt (05:43):
So the pointe shoes are like slippers, but they have a
very hard, cupped toe. So youreally are up on a point. But
within the shoe, the shoe hasalmost like a little platform in
it. So I don't know how bentyour foot is within that shoe.
(06:08):
But certainly the look of it isthat you are up on on the tip of
your pointed toes. And itextends the whole body and of
course affects your movements,right. So sometimes there's a
little tippy toe kind ofmovement that goes with that.
But not always. Sometimes that'sjust how you walk - on point. Or
(06:29):
you move across the stagegracefully on point and you kick
with your foot still pointedwith that same extended foot.
Yeah, on point really does looklike you are standing on the on
the points of your toes.
Christine Malec (06:46):
At there's been a lot said about the body types,
particularly of women in ballet,that the the the requirements
are exacting to the extent thatballerinas are unfortunately
known for eating disorders. Sowhen you looked at videos, did
you see that there was aparticular body type associated
(07:07):
with it?
JJ Hunt (07:08):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the idea that the movement
in ballet is about perfection,is also reflected in the body
type. So not only are you tryingto achieve perfection in the
performance of each position andmovement, you're doing so with
your body as well. And that'sfor men and women and that that
(07:29):
version of perfection is verylean, and outrageously toned and
muscular like almost absurdlyso. The muscles on a ballet
dancer, man or women, areincredible. And they are shown
off. They are presented to theaudience in costumes that are
(07:53):
often unitards or leotards orballet tights, which are
extremely form fitting like muchmore so than even tights that
you would wear, you know, likeyoga pants style tights. These
are very, very form fitting, andthey show off every tiny little
bit of musculature in a dancer'sbody in their legs in the back.
(08:17):
It's incredible to see thesebodies at a version of
perfection, right? There wouldbe a lot of people who would
talk about the health of thosebodies. But they seem to be so
precise, every little tinymuscle in the leg, every tendon
(08:38):
is taught. It's essential to alldance to highlight the body
right? What you're watching whenyou're watching dance is a body
perform the dance. But I wouldsay in ballet, it's essential.
Watching the body is essential.
You're watching the body, notjust the performance, if that
makes sense.
Christine Malec (08:59):
So talk swing what's that look like?
JJ Hunt (09:01):
Swing is fun. So again, another broad category
Swing dancing developedalongside swing jazz in the
1920s through the 1940s. Swingis big, it's bold. It's joyful
and free. It's euphoric andlively. We're talking things
like the Lindy Hop, theCharleston, jitterbug, Boogie
Woogie. And swing is usually apartner dance. I saw the term
(09:27):
eight count circular swing out,which is interesting. I think
here's something in from descrition point of view. So the eig
t count of the dance of the ofhe music. The circular swing o
t, so this is danced in usuallin pairs, and the couple comes
together and then spreads apat, comes together spreads
(09:47):
apart. And while they're dong that, as a pair, they're mo
ing in a more or less circularpattern. So that's the circu
ar swing-out. So you're comig apart, then coming back toge
her.
Christine Malec (10:01):
Are you attatched? Are you holing hands?
JJ Hunt (10:03):
Sometimes you're holding hands as you're spun
out. So often it's that the leadis kind of a little bit more
anchored. And then the partneris kind of spun out like a yo
yo. And sometimes your hands areactually connected the whole
time. And sometimes they're not.
Sometimes you're pulled backeither literally; your arm is
tugged, and you kind of roll orspin back towards your partner
(10:25):
at the middle. And the wholetime when you're swing dancing,
you're kind of bent forward atthe waist a little bit, your
knees are a little bit bent,there's a bounce in your step,
this is like a ready foranything kind of posture, right?
As opposed to ballet, which isstraight up and very regal. This
is like, "Alright, here we go,I'm ready for anything", you
know? I'm kind of bouncing itdown a little bit. And so this,
(10:47):
this movement of out and in, outand in while you're slowly
moving around is kind of that'sthe basic movement, and then you
add spins and dips andacrobatics, then it gets really
wild.
Christine Malec (11:07):
Do you mean dips like where the lead sort of
sweeps the person literally offtheir feet and make some kind of
horizontal?
JJ Hunt (11:15):
Yes, and there are like lots of different ways to do
this. So one, if you're kind of,if you're very close together,
I've seen dips, where thepartner will lean back. So just
for the sake of argument, let'scall it man and woman. So the
woman will drop back into themale partner, and the male
partner will lower their bodydown toward the ground, so that
(11:40):
you can almost become parallelto the ground as if you're gonna
then lean in and give them akiss. And then they bounce back
up again. But there are dipsthat can take on all kinds of
configurations. So I've seensome dips where the one partner
will fall backwards, and thelead will kind of grab or cradle
(12:02):
the back of their head like apillow and lower them to the
ground. So it's not leaningagainst a body, it's just one
person falling backwards, withtheir head cradled in someone's
hand. And then they're held likein a table position. So their
belly up, their knees bent, sothat their their torso is like
(12:22):
flat, two feet off the ground.
And then they kind of start towiggle, wiggling and shaking and
moving about until their partnerlifts the back of their head and
pushes them back to their feetagain. It's wild, it's
improvisational. These dips,these leaps, these hoists are
huge. They're big, broadmovements. And it's incredibly
(12:43):
acrobatic, really acrobatic.
Christine Malec (12:48):
If you didn't hear the music, and you were
just watching the dance that theswing dancing, would you know
what the rhythm of the music is?
JJ Hunt (12:57):
Great question. God, you're good at this.
Christine Malec (12:59):
Ha ha!
JJ Hunt (12:59):
Okay. So yes, you would definitely be able to, you would
be able to follow the because ofthis in and out and because of
the shuffling of the feet,there's a lot of swinging of
hips back and forth. And there'sa lot of kicks to, to the music.
So you could follow the rhythm,you could follow the beat. But
(13:25):
it's interesting you mentionedthis because I was watching some
salsa dancing. And the basicsteps of salsa are actually
quite similar to the basic stepsof swing, this in and out this
kind of yo yoing of the partnerback to the lead. The slow turn,
the slow circular turn that thecouple does, is very similar
(13:50):
with salsa and swing, but therhythm is different. The style
is different, the aesthetics,the vibe, totally different,
right? So in swing you'replayful, wild and boisterous.
With salsa it's sultry, like themusic. So instead of flipping a
partner with a big grin like youwould do in swing, in salsa,
(14:12):
you're going to grind hips withbedroom eyes, right?
Christine Malec (14:15):
Tee hee!
JJ Hunt (14:15):
Instead of flashing jazz hands like you genuinely do
in swing dancing you're going toshimmy your shoulders, right?
It's sexier. And instead ofbeing bent forward, ready to be
wild and boisterous, you're alittle bit taller, you're
feeling kind of sexy as a salsadancer. So the dancing movement
is the same in both of those butif you shut the music off, you
(14:39):
will still know that it'sdifferent just based on the
style of movement, the facialexpressions and the and the vibe
that the dancers are giving off.
Yeah.
Christine Malec (14:51):
What about the the wardrobe? Is there a
wardrobe for swing dancing?
JJ Hunt (14:55):
Yeah, so with swing dancing men are wearing baggy
pants, and women are usuallywearing skirts, quite often
wearing skirts. So as you getflung about pant legs or
flapping skirts or flying up, itjust adds to the kind of wild
(15:15):
untamed look of it. In swingdance, you'll have maybe
someone, when they pull theirpartner back in... The lead
pulls their partner back in,maybe they're gonna bend
forward, and the partner willroll over their back scissor
kicking in the air as they go.
So like the legs are open andthen shut and open and shut, and
their skirt's all the way up.
(15:40):
It's really wild and big and thefashions kind of go with that.
Big puffy pants, like a suitpants for men and dresses and
skirts for women.
Christine Malec (15:57):
So long skirts or...?
JJ Hunt (15:59):
No, they'd be above the knee skirts. But pleated,
flowing. Not tight. Whereas insalsa, maybe the women are going
to have tight skirts and tightclothes and the men same same.
You're showing off your body ina different way. Not showing it
off because like my skirt mightfly up and it's gonna be wild!
(16:22):
But like look at the slit in myreally tight skirt. Can see the
length of my leg?
Christine Malec (16:29):
Yeah, yeah.
JJ Hunt (16:30):
It's a different aesthetic to go with it.
Christine Malec (16:33):
Let's talk about some more modern forms, I
guess. Should we go to disco?
JJ Hunt (16:39):
Sure! I mean, who doesn't want to disco right?
Let's go.
Christine Malec (16:43):
Uh, well...
JJ Hunt (16:43):
Ha ha ha! You know, it's funny I was when I started
to do my research on this. Ithought when I got to the point,
okay, now I'm going to dive intodisco. My idea of disco is that
it's big. It's huge. It's, youknow, like flashy. And the
lights in the in the clothes. Ihad this idea in my head. And th
(17:03):
s is closest to my age, I wasorn in the 70s. So I had this
Christine Malec (17:05):
Oooh.
otion of disco being big, buthaving come straight off o
swing, I realized how sall disco actually is.
JJ Hunt (17:22):
Yeah, kind of interesting. So it really helps
to keep the music in mind. Discois all about the driving beat.
It's a four four time signature,and they call it a four on the
floor drum style. So you hit thedrum bass on all four beats,
boom, boom, boom, boom. And thatdriving beat really informs the
(17:43):
movement in the dance. So withdisco, all of your moves, all of
your gestures, your small kicks,your hip thrusts, everything
lands on that beat, boom, boom,boom. There's a lot of improv in
disco. I mean, there are a setof dance moves you can do, but
(18:03):
it's not like ballet or anythinglike that. And it's nowhere near
as athletic or vibrant as swingdancing. It's a little arrogant.
Strutting is the word I woulduse. Strutting. And it's kind of
in keeping, of course, with thestyle and the aesthetics. You've
got that throbbing beat, you'vegot the disco lights, the disco
ball, pulsing lights, big hair,big collars. Maybe the women are
(18:28):
wearing sequins and plungingnecklines. So the atmosphere,
the club, the lights, thefashion, and you're kind of
presenting yourself, you'restrutting. It's almost more
important than the dance movesthemselves. It's a lot of
posturing. Interesting. I wasn'tI kind of wasn't expecting that.
But when I went back and lookedat the footage, it's like no,
(18:50):
no, no, I think that makessense.
Christine Malec (18:53):
Oh, so when you see dancing, and you go Yeah,
that's disco. Is it theaesthetic or the movements that
tell you that?
JJ Hunt (19:02):
If someone is wearing disco clothes, 1970s clothes,
they don't even have to bedancing. You're like, Oh, yeah,
you look like disco dancer.
Right like it's so clear.
Christine Malec (19:13):
So break that down.
JJ Hunt (19:14):
So you're talking really wide collars, and they
tend to be open. Everything'sjust big right? So hairstyles
hair would be grown long andthen brushed into place or
gelled into place...
Christine Malec (19:28):
Big hair for men as well?
JJ Hunt (19:31):
Yeah, for men definitely. And then the women;
huge hair, moving into featheredand long. Everything's big and
bold. Kind of hippie, like, Imean, hips, not like not
hippies, but hips. A lot ofoutfits that are going to show
(19:52):
off women's hips. So tightpants, high waisted. There's a
lot of shifting of your hipsback and forth, shifting of the
hips back and forth. So if youare watching someone disco dance
and they're not wearing 1970sdisco clothes or just in
whatever we would be wearing -street clothes - the Disco moves
(20:15):
are still clear. They're iconicbecause of movies and TV. Like
Saturday Night Fever. We knowthat finger pointed up at the
sky, and then down to the floorin the opposite direction. Up at
the sky, down at the floor, upthe sky, down to the floor, with
(20:35):
the hips shifting back andforth. That is like all you have
to do and someone can say, asighted movie goer would know
that that's Saturday NightFever. That's all you have to
do.
Christine Malec (20:49):
Oh, really? Oh I love that.
JJ Hunt (20:50):
Totally. It's totally iconic. Some of the disco moves
are very... there's a cheesinessto it. There's a strutting
cheesy swagger to disco that iskind of funny now. But it makes
it really clear. I will bust outa single disco dance move just
(21:15):
as a punch line.
Christine Malec (21:16):
Ha ha ha!
JJ Hunt (21:16):
It's kind of like how you would use an emoji. You bust
out a single disco move. Youknow, bite the lower lip and do
a little gunslinger, whatever,just to like get a laugh.
They're very clear.
Christine Malec (21:28):
Can you give us a few more of those classic
iconic moves?
JJ Hunt (21:31):
Oh god. Okay, so the gunslinger, which is one of my
favorites. So knees bent, feetspread a little bit, and you
kind of dip down like you're agunslinger about to go into
battle, right. So imagine you'vegot a holster on and you turn
your fingers into into guns. Andyou kind of do a bit of a squat.
And then it goes right hand,left hand, right hand, left
(21:55):
hand, and you've got your fingerguns. And so you go right hand
to the back pocket, left hand tothe back pocket, and then you
bring your right hand in betweenyour legs, and then your left
hand in between your legs, andthen back and forth, and back
and forth. So it's as if you'reholstering weapons at the back,
and then holstering weaponsbetween your legs, and then
(22:16):
holstering at the back, andholstering between your legs.
And there's this kind of shimmyof the shoulders. Again, you got
to get that beat that Dun, dun,dun, dun. It's so cheesy. It's
such fantastic cheese. I loveit.
Christine Malec (22:30):
When you watch it being done, is it self
conscious? Kind of ironiccheese? Or are they full on? Do
they really mean it?
JJ Hunt (22:37):
No, that's the thing.
You look at footage from the1970s of like disco dancing,
either in clubs or in movies.
People are having a great time.
It's fun. But it's serious! Theyare seriously feeling "I am
hot!", there's no irony in discothat I can pick up on.
Christine Malec (23:01):
Ok, ok.
JJ Hunt (23:01):
Now I wasn't dico dancing [in the 70's]. I was
like, five.
Christine Malec (23:05):
Yeah, yeah.
JJ Hunt (23:07):
Someone who was actually disco dancing might say
"No, no, no, no, we knew." Butthat doesn't come across so much
in in the footage that I'mseeing now.
Christine Malec (23:19):
So let's talk hip hop. This is something I
have absolutely no idea aboutthe look of.
JJ Hunt (23:24):
So hip hop. Okay. Just as a just lets us get get this
out there. There's there'snothing less cool than trying to
talk about and describe coolthings. So this might be me at
my least cool and I have set avery high bar for that.
Ha!So here we go. [Narrator voice]
Hip Hop. Hip Hop is a broad termfor street dancing that...
(23:45):
Yeah, it has evolved from like1970s dance crews, and then the
Ha!Soul Train era in the 80s. So
hip hop encompasses breakdancingor breaking, popping, locking,
very heavy on the improv. Andthe thing about hip hop is it it
pulls from anywhere andeverywhere. So you will actually
(24:06):
see some like classic balletmoves that get twisted into hip
hop, you'll definitely see someswing that gets pulled into hip
hop, disco, definitely all ofthese things get pulled in. And
it's again very hard. It's veryit's heavy on the beat, right
movements, gestures, poses, theyalways land on the beat.
(24:31):
Now this might be a bit of afunny observation, but I did
notice as I was, of course,going through footage watching
people dance in various hip hopstyles in videos. Hip Hop
dancing is done to camera. Itkind of breaks the fourth wall.
So hip hop starts in the era ofthe music video, right the home
(24:53):
video camera, and its peoplefilming each other on the street
Dancing in the Street, and thenit evolves through the era of
cameras everywhere all the time.
And I couldn't help but noticethat in YouTube videos, hip hop
dancers are staring at theaudience. If you're watching
swing dancers, they're dancingwith each other. There's a
performative element to it, butthey're looking at each other.
(25:16):
Ballet dancers aren't staring atthe audience. That's not, that's
not the contact point. With hiphop, certainly in videos, you
are always watching theaudience. And your gestures,
your movements, your poses areaggressive. So not just like
disco, which is strutting. Thisis aggressive. "I am doing this
(25:40):
for you, I'm doing this at you.
I am sometimes challenging you."Right? That's the vibe of hip
hop. It's to camera, it's toaudience. Totally different
starting point than any of theother dance dance styles that I
looked at.
Christine Malec (25:59):
How do you know what's hip hop when you watch
it.
JJ Hunt (26:01):
So the gestures, the moves, the poses that are really
aggressive, the spins and flips.
So this is a very acrobaticdance style, so you'll get a lot
of spins, spinning on a head orspinning on one shoulder, maybe
windmill kicks while you'respinning on your back, maybe on
(26:22):
one hand with a bent wrist, likeflips with these kicks, the
scissor kicks, big skills thatare on display, there's
something about, I mean, thismight be a funny comparison, but
it reminds me a little bit oflike skateboarders or
skateboarding.
Christine Malec (26:40):
Oh!
JJ Hunt (26:41):
These dancers have to... there's an element of
tricks in the dancing. I mean,as with any dance, you have to
perform a move over and over,you have to practice it over and
over to get so that you can landit. But with hip hop, some of
the skills that are on displayare really extraordinary. Like
(27:03):
something like popping, inbreakdancing popping and
locking. So if you do the wavewith your arm, or you're popping
it, when you popping it, you canmake your body move in such a
way that you appear to be movingin slow motion, or in stop
action. Or maybe you can looklike you're moving in reverse.
(27:24):
You isolate the different jointsand the different muscles to the
point where you can, look likeyou are defying gravity. You are
isolating the movement of eachmuscle and limb. It's it the
novelty factor of that. It iswild. And then you add that to
(27:47):
an understanding of rhythm andmovement to the beat. And you
incorporate these skills, thesetricks in the middle of a dance
performance. And yeah, that'skind of hip hop. And again, the
attitude. The attitude is thething that that would really...
You know, all of that I supposecould be said of other dance
(28:10):
forms. Maybe some swing perhaps,maybe disco. But it's to camera,
it's to you, and it's done withattitude. It's done with an
aggressive, in your face kind offeel. Yeah.
Christine Malec (28:24):
Okay, so how about like modern electronic
sort of club dancing.
JJ Hunt (28:27):
EDM. The base move is the running man. The running man
is actually a hip hop dance movewhere you're running on the spot
to the beat. But in EDM, you'reshuffling your feet, so it looks
like you're kind of gliding. Soinstead of like lifting up your
(28:51):
knee and putting your foot downand lifting up your knee and
putting your foot down, you'relifting up your front leg, and
then putting your foot down andthe other leg that's on the
floor slides back. And you dothat over and over again. So one
knee up and the other leg slidesand then they switch. And then
the foot that's on the groundnow slides back. There's a
(29:12):
gliding quality to this. It'snot unlike the moonwalk. So the
with the moonwalk, MichaelJackson's famous moonwalk, he
would pull his feet back andthen and then go up onto the
toe. So one foot goes back,slides back on the floor, and
then it goes up onto the toe andthen the next foot slides back
up onto the toe and repeat overand over. And there was a
(29:34):
gliding quality to thatmoonwalk. And then he could
moonwalk, kind of slide, fromside to side. That's the base
for a lot of EDM is this glidingon the floor. So you mix the
gliding action which is reallytrippy, it again has this
quality of being a trick to it,you add that to the heavy
(29:59):
stomping on the beat. If you'recutting shapes in EDM, you are
stomping your legs in differentpositions, kind of kicking to
the sides and kicking to thefront, all while sliding your
other foot. There is anotherworldly quality of mad
skills. There's like somecraziness going on, which works
(30:20):
well if you're listening tomusic that is all about like the
drone. With EDM, you've got thebeat and you've got the droning
quality to the music, and youare quite possibly high. So all
of this works really together.
Lots of foot movement, lots ofankle movement, sometimes the
EDM clothing, maybe you'rewearing glowing treads on the on
(30:43):
the soles of your shoes. So asyou stomp and slide, stomp and
slide and kick and slide, you'vegot these lights that are going
off. And then you canincorporate other kinds of
dancing and add it to the basicshuffle. So you can add some
popping or some breakdancing,you can add some of those
aggressive hip hop, kind ofchest thrusting movements. You
(31:05):
can also add jazz or swing likethe Charleston, which is a swing
dance. It is a really great EDMadd on. So instead of just
shuffling back and forth, youcan do this Charleston, step
back, step in, step out, step inand you can kind of do that,
while you're dancing to EDM.
(31:27):
It's wild, man, it's so trippy.
Christine Malec (31:30):
I'm having a feeling that I get when I listen
to descriptions of visual art.
And to be honest, it's a bit ofa lost feeling. Because you've
used about 59 terms that wewould spend all day trying to
define and I still have thesense that the essence is...
eluding me still. So genreaside, what makes a good dancer.
JJ Hunt (31:59):
I think fluidity. I think being... you talked
earlier about this idea of ofbeing free, and feeling the
music. Any dancer in any one ofthese styles, no matter how well
(32:20):
they have practiced andmemorized the steps... If you
can memorize the steps of theCharleston, for example, you
might intellectually know how todo it. But if you can't let your
body move, if you can't open upyour hips, and be unafraid to
(32:42):
look ridiculous, and kind ofmove past that it will only ever
look robotic. It will look likean intellectual pursuit, not a
physical one. And there'ssomething about watching other
people who can dance, and I'mcertainly not one of them. I'm
not a dancer, I can't I don'tget over myself enough to dance
(33:04):
openly and freely. But whensomeone is, it's kind of
magnetic.
Christine Malec (33:12):
There's a total paradox here. So there's this
grab bag of words like rhythm,which I associate with a certain
thing, and then fluidity, whichseems totally different. And
then technique, and thenopenness, and then spontaneity
and genuineness. These all don'tmeld. It's very complicated. And
(33:37):
I still feel -and I hope that Ihope our listeners don't feel
this way - but I still feel thatthe essence eludes me. And I'm
not sure why that is. I'm okayto dance, I don't have too much
pride. I'll just go crazy andjump around and stuff. But I
still feel like there's anessence that will always elude
me because it's such a wholebody thing. And to watch it,
(34:03):
yeah, it's a very sighted thing.
I don't know, maybe that's me.
JJ Hunt (34:08):
I'm not sure what this is. I'm not sure if this is what
Molly was looking for! But it'swhat we got!
Christine Malec (34:13):
Now I'm self conscious about having said all
of these like limiting thingsand making dance into a
performative thing. And that'sthe last thing that should be
said about dance because reallydance is just about the
experience of the dancer. And soI hope that anyone who's
listening as you know doesn'tfeel more more daunted, as
(34:34):
opposed to freed by by thisconversation, because it's meant
to be instructive. But the truthabout dancing really is that
it's just about how it makes youfeel. So whatever you do, you kn
w, if you want to be in the prvacy of your own living ro
m with the curtains closed, dn't don't be inhibited about dan
ing! Because when you do it, yu know what feels right. So I
hope that listeners take this asinstructive and not no
(34:56):
discouraging because dncing actually really is qui
e fun and everyone should do itometimes even if it's just alon
in your living room.
We love making this podcast. Ifyou love hearing it, perhaps
you'll consider supporting itscreation and development by
(35:16):
becoming a patron. We've set upa Patreon page to help cover the
costs of putting the showtogether. You can contribute as
a listener or as a sponsor tohelp ensure that accessible and
entertaining journalismcontinues to reach our
community. Visit patreon.comslash talk description to me
that's pa t ar e o n.com slashtalk description to me have
(35:38):
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and you can follow us on Twitterat talk description.
Talk description to me with Christine Malec and JJ
Hunt.
Christine Malec (00:29):
Hi, I'm Christine Malec.
JJ Hunt (00:30):
And I'm JJ Hunt. This is talk description to Me where
the visuals of current eventsand the world around us get
hashtag in description richconversations.
Christine Malec (00:47):
This week, we're going to talk about
something that we have hadseveral requests for, and that
is dancing, which is a hugelybroad category. But we had a
specific request from Molly andshe said something that I
completely resonated with, shesaid, when you're blind people
say, dance, it's easy, just movewith the music, and they act
(01:09):
like it's an innate thing, likewe all learn to walk. And, you
know, dancing is just like that.
But it isn't. And I thinksighted people or high partial
people you see dancing all ofyour life. And it's easy to
underestimate how important thatpart of learning dance is. The
fact that you've seen it so manytimes. And so when people say,
(01:33):
Oh, just it's easy, just move tothe music, and they act like
you're having a problem, becauseyou're just too uptight, you
just need to relax, and thenthings will go beautifully. And
it's actually not true. And so Iappreciated Molly's insights on
art, because it's summed upexactly how I feel about dance.
And so dance is a huge, broadcategory, we sort of broke it
(01:56):
down into a few, a few differentways to talk about it. But I
think, JJ, when we spoke beforewe started recording, you said
that you were actually surprisedat what what the challenge was
to start describing what was itlike for you when you started to
do your research.
JJ Hunt (02:16):
Totally. Well, you know, when we got that the most
recent email from Molly and we,we both were like, yes, this is
a great idea. This is fantastic.
I love it. It's so visual. Thisis gonna be great. And I sat
down to do my research, I satdown at my laptop and then went,
"How do I do this?!" It's reallya challenging idea. So first of
(02:36):
all, as you said, it's really,really broad, right? Dance.
There are so many differentstyles. And then within each
style of dance, there aresubcategories and different
steps. And it's, it was a bit ofa trip. Yeah. So I mean, what I
ended up doing was was breakingdown dance into a couple of big
(02:57):
broad categories ballet, swing,hip hop, disco. I tried to get
some big broad categories, maybeinstead of describing specific
dance steps, which would take usall day, if we were just going
to try and describe one dancestep after another, it would
take us all day, and I don'tknow if it would ever actually
(03:18):
get to what we're talking aboutwhich was, which is the look of
dance of a specific kind ofdance, the look and the feel,
and the vibe, and how the bodymoves while dancing to this kind
of music or that. So that's whatI spent my time doing is
researching the overall look.
(03:39):
And I got to say, it's been apretty fun week watching YouTube
videos of people dancing. It is,it is fun, it is joyful. It's
really nice, especially as a guywho doesn't dance very much
himself to like, indulge andother people dancing. It's been
a it's been a fun week, I gottasay.
Christine Malec (03:56):
So let's go back to the sort of the more
classical kind of dance which isballet. What can you tell us
about the overall look of that?
JJ Hunt (04:03):
Okay, so ballet is, of course, very formal. Rigid would
be too strong a word to describethe overall movement and the
overall feel, because there'sfluidity and there's grace in
the movement. But I would sayexacting. Ballet is all about
being exact and precise. And I'mtalking specifically about
(04:25):
classical ballet. classicalballet is a series of positions
and movements. And when you'rewatching ballet, what you're
seeing is dancers perform thoseprecise movements in a very
precise order. So myunderstanding is that ballet
choreography is very set. It'svery unambiguous, right? It's
(04:47):
like an orchestral score. Youcould have two ballet companies
dance the same choreography, andin theory, it should be near
identical. And so the art formis about achieving a kind of
perfection. And that's not justmy intellectual explanation of
(05:07):
ballet, that's consistent withhow I interpret the visuals as
well. So I'm not a balletaficionado, I'm but I have seen
a bit of ballet here and there.
Performers, they presentthemselves quite regally. So
you're standing tall, chin isup, back is straight. Women are
often on point, meaning they'rewalking on pointed toes.
Christine Malec (05:30):
Now, I've heard that, "on your toes". But
colloquially to me being on yourtoes actually means you're on
the ball of your foot is thatwhat this means in ballet, or
are you literally on the tips ofyour toes?
JJ Hunt (05:43):
So the pointe shoes are like slippers, but they have a
very hard, cupped toe. So youreally are up on a point. But
within the shoe, the shoe hasalmost like a little platform in
it. So I don't know how bentyour foot is within that shoe.
(06:08):
But certainly the look of it isthat you are up on on the tip of
your pointed toes. And itextends the whole body and of
course affects your movements,right. So sometimes there's a
little tippy toe kind ofmovement that goes with that.
But not always. Sometimes that'sjust how you walk - on point. Or
(06:29):
you move across the stagegracefully on point and you kick
with your foot still pointedwith that same extended foot.
Yeah, on point really does looklike you are standing on the on
the points of your toes.
Christine Malec (06:46):
At there's been a lot said about the body types,
particularly of women in ballet,that the the the requirements
are exacting to the extent thatballerinas are unfortunately
known for eating disorders. Sowhen you looked at videos, did
you see that there was aparticular body type associated
(07:07):
with it?
JJ Hunt (07:08):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the idea that the movement
in ballet is about perfection,is also reflected in the body
type. So not only are you tryingto achieve perfection in the
performance of each position andmovement, you're doing so with
your body as well. And that'sfor men and women and that that
(07:29):
version of perfection is verylean, and outrageously toned and
muscular like almost absurdlyso. The muscles on a ballet
dancer, man or women, areincredible. And they are shown
off. They are presented to theaudience in costumes that are
(07:53):
often unitards or leotards orballet tights, which are
extremely form fitting like muchmore so than even tights that
you would wear, you know, likeyoga pants style tights. These
are very, very form fitting, andthey show off every tiny little
bit of musculature in a dancer'sbody in their legs in the back.
(08:17):
It's incredible to see thesebodies at a version of
perfection, right? There wouldbe a lot of people who would
talk about the health of thosebodies. But they seem to be so
precise, every little tinymuscle in the leg, every tendon
(08:38):
is taught. It's essential to alldance to highlight the body
right? What you're watching whenyou're watching dance is a body
perform the dance. But I wouldsay in ballet, it's essential.
Watching the body is essential.
You're watching the body, notjust the performance, if that
makes sense.
Christine Malec (08:59):
So talk swing what's that look like?
JJ Hunt (09:01):
Swing is fun. So again, another broad category
Swing dancing developedalongside swing jazz in the
1920s through the 1940s. Swingis big, it's bold. It's joyful
and free. It's euphoric andlively. We're talking things
like the Lindy Hop, theCharleston, jitterbug, Boogie
Woogie. And swing is usually apartner dance. I saw the term
(09:27):
eight count circular swing out,which is interesting. I think
here's something in from descrition point of view. So the eig
t count of the dance of the ofhe music. The circular swing o
t, so this is danced in usuallin pairs, and the couple comes
together and then spreads apat, comes together spreads
(09:47):
apart. And while they're dong that, as a pair, they're mo
ing in a more or less circularpattern. So that's the circu
ar swing-out. So you're comig apart, then coming back toge
her.
Christine Malec (10:01):
Are you attatched? Are you holing hands?
JJ Hunt (10:03):
Sometimes you're holding hands as you're spun
out. So often it's that the leadis kind of a little bit more
anchored. And then the partneris kind of spun out like a yo
yo. And sometimes your hands areactually connected the whole
time. And sometimes they're not.
Sometimes you're pulled backeither literally; your arm is
tugged, and you kind of roll orspin back towards your partner
(10:25):
at the middle. And the wholetime when you're swing dancing,
you're kind of bent forward atthe waist a little bit, your
knees are a little bit bent,there's a bounce in your step,
this is like a ready foranything kind of posture, right?
As opposed to ballet, which isstraight up and very regal. This
is like, "Alright, here we go,I'm ready for anything", you
know? I'm kind of bouncing itdown a little bit. And so this,
(10:47):
this movement of out and in, outand in while you're slowly
moving around is kind of that'sthe basic movement, and then you
add spins and dips andacrobatics, then it gets really
wild.
Christine Malec (11:07):
Do you mean dips like where the lead sort of
sweeps the person literally offtheir feet and make some kind of
horizontal?
JJ Hunt (11:15):
Yes, and there are like lots of different ways to do
this. So one, if you're kind of,if you're very close together,
I've seen dips, where thepartner will lean back. So just
for the sake of argument, let'scall it man and woman. So the
woman will drop back into themale partner, and the male
partner will lower their bodydown toward the ground, so that
(11:40):
you can almost become parallelto the ground as if you're gonna
then lean in and give them akiss. And then they bounce back
up again. But there are dipsthat can take on all kinds of
configurations. So I've seensome dips where the one partner
will fall backwards, and thelead will kind of grab or cradle
(12:02):
the back of their head like apillow and lower them to the
ground. So it's not leaningagainst a body, it's just one
person falling backwards, withtheir head cradled in someone's
hand. And then they're held likein a table position. So their
belly up, their knees bent, sothat their their torso is like
(12:22):
flat, two feet off the ground.
And then they kind of start towiggle, wiggling and shaking and
moving about until their partnerlifts the back of their head and
pushes them back to their feetagain. It's wild, it's
improvisational. These dips,these leaps, these hoists are
huge. They're big, broadmovements. And it's incredibly
(12:43):
acrobatic, really acrobatic.
Christine Malec (12:48):
If you didn't hear the music, and you were
just watching the dance that theswing dancing, would you know
what the rhythm of the music is?
JJ Hunt (12:57):
Great question. God, you're good at this.
Christine Malec (12:59):
Ha ha!
JJ Hunt (12:59):
Okay. So yes, you would definitely be able to, you would
be able to follow the because ofthis in and out and because of
the shuffling of the feet,there's a lot of swinging of
hips back and forth. And there'sa lot of kicks to, to the music.
So you could follow the rhythm,you could follow the beat. But
(13:25):
it's interesting you mentionedthis because I was watching some
salsa dancing. And the basicsteps of salsa are actually
quite similar to the basic stepsof swing, this in and out this
kind of yo yoing of the partnerback to the lead. The slow turn,
the slow circular turn that thecouple does, is very similar
(13:50):
with salsa and swing, but therhythm is different. The style
is different, the aesthetics,the vibe, totally different,
right? So in swing you'replayful, wild and boisterous.
With salsa it's sultry, like themusic. So instead of flipping a
partner with a big grin like youwould do in swing, in salsa,
(14:12):
you're going to grind hips withbedroom eyes, right?
Christine Malec (14:15):
Tee hee!
JJ Hunt (14:15):
Instead of flashing jazz hands like you genuinely do
in swing dancing you're going toshimmy your shoulders, right?
It's sexier. And instead ofbeing bent forward, ready to be
wild and boisterous, you're alittle bit taller, you're
feeling kind of sexy as a salsadancer. So the dancing movement
is the same in both of those butif you shut the music off, you
(14:39):
will still know that it'sdifferent just based on the
style of movement, the facialexpressions and the and the vibe
that the dancers are giving off.
Yeah.
Christine Malec (14:51):
What about the the wardrobe? Is there a
wardrobe for swing dancing?
JJ Hunt (14:55):
Yeah, so with swing dancing men are wearing baggy
pants, and women are usuallywearing skirts, quite often
wearing skirts. So as you getflung about pant legs or
flapping skirts or flying up, itjust adds to the kind of wild
(15:15):
untamed look of it. In swingdance, you'll have maybe
someone, when they pull theirpartner back in... The lead
pulls their partner back in,maybe they're gonna bend
forward, and the partner willroll over their back scissor
kicking in the air as they go.
So like the legs are open andthen shut and open and shut, and
their skirt's all the way up.
(15:40):
It's really wild and big and thefashions kind of go with that.
Big puffy pants, like a suitpants for men and dresses and
skirts for women.
Christine Malec (15:57):
So long skirts or...?
JJ Hunt (15:59):
No, they'd be above the knee skirts. But pleated,
flowing. Not tight. Whereas insalsa, maybe the women are going
to have tight skirts and tightclothes and the men same same.
You're showing off your body ina different way. Not showing it
off because like my skirt mightfly up and it's gonna be wild!
(16:22):
But like look at the slit in myreally tight skirt. Can see the
length of my leg?
Christine Malec (16:29):
Yeah, yeah.
JJ Hunt (16:30):
It's a different aesthetic to go with it.
Christine Malec (16:33):
Let's talk about some more modern forms, I
guess. Should we go to disco?
JJ Hunt (16:39):
Sure! I mean, who doesn't want to disco right?
Let's go.
Christine Malec (16:43):
Uh, well...
JJ Hunt (16:43):
Ha ha ha! You know, it's funny I was when I started
to do my research on this. Ithought when I got to the point,
okay, now I'm going to dive intodisco. My idea of disco is that
it's big. It's huge. It's, youknow, like flashy. And the
lights in the in the clothes. Ihad this idea in my head. And th
(17:03):
s is closest to my age, I wasorn in the 70s. So I had this
Christine Malec (17:05):
Oooh.
otion of disco being big, buthaving come straight off o
swing, I realized how sall disco actually is.
JJ Hunt (17:22):
Yeah, kind of interesting. So it really helps
to keep the music in mind. Discois all about the driving beat.
It's a four four time signature,and they call it a four on the
floor drum style. So you hit thedrum bass on all four beats,
boom, boom, boom, boom. And thatdriving beat really informs the
(17:43):
movement in the dance. So withdisco, all of your moves, all of
your gestures, your small kicks,your hip thrusts, everything
lands on that beat, boom, boom,boom. There's a lot of improv in
disco. I mean, there are a setof dance moves you can do, but
(18:03):
it's not like ballet or anythinglike that. And it's nowhere near
as athletic or vibrant as swingdancing. It's a little arrogant.
Strutting is the word I woulduse. Strutting. And it's kind of
in keeping, of course, with thestyle and the aesthetics. You've
got that throbbing beat, you'vegot the disco lights, the disco
ball, pulsing lights, big hair,big collars. Maybe the women are
(18:28):
wearing sequins and plungingnecklines. So the atmosphere,
the club, the lights, thefashion, and you're kind of
presenting yourself, you'restrutting. It's almost more
important than the dance movesthemselves. It's a lot of
posturing. Interesting. I wasn'tI kind of wasn't expecting that.
But when I went back and lookedat the footage, it's like no,
(18:50):
no, no, I think that makessense.
Christine Malec (18:53):
Oh, so when you see dancing, and you go Yeah,
that's disco. Is it theaesthetic or the movements that
tell you that?
JJ Hunt (19:02):
If someone is wearing disco clothes, 1970s clothes,
they don't even have to bedancing. You're like, Oh, yeah,
you look like disco dancer.
Right like it's so clear.
Christine Malec (19:13):
So break that down.
JJ Hunt (19:14):
So you're talking really wide collars, and they
tend to be open. Everything'sjust big right? So hairstyles
hair would be grown long andthen brushed into place or
gelled into place...
Christine Malec (19:28):
Big hair for men as well?
JJ Hunt (19:31):
Yeah, for men definitely. And then the women;
huge hair, moving into featheredand long. Everything's big and
bold. Kind of hippie, like, Imean, hips, not like not
hippies, but hips. A lot ofoutfits that are going to show
(19:52):
off women's hips. So tightpants, high waisted. There's a
lot of shifting of your hipsback and forth, shifting of the
hips back and forth. So if youare watching someone disco dance
and they're not wearing 1970sdisco clothes or just in
whatever we would be wearing -street clothes - the Disco moves
(20:15):
are still clear. They're iconicbecause of movies and TV. Like
Saturday Night Fever. We knowthat finger pointed up at the
sky, and then down to the floorin the opposite direction. Up at
the sky, down at the floor, upthe sky, down to the floor, with
(20:35):
the hips shifting back andforth. That is like all you have
to do and someone can say, asighted movie goer would know
that that's Saturday NightFever. That's all you have to
do.
Christine Malec (20:49):
Oh, really? Oh I love that.
JJ Hunt (20:50):
Totally. It's totally iconic. Some of the disco moves
are very... there's a cheesinessto it. There's a strutting
cheesy swagger to disco that iskind of funny now. But it makes
it really clear. I will bust outa single disco dance move just
(21:15):
as a punch line.
Christine Malec (21:16):
Ha ha ha!
JJ Hunt (21:16):
It's kind of like how you would use an emoji. You bust
out a single disco move. Youknow, bite the lower lip and do
a little gunslinger, whatever,just to like get a laugh.
They're very clear.
Christine Malec (21:28):
Can you give us a few more of those classic
iconic moves?
JJ Hunt (21:31):
Oh god. Okay, so the gunslinger, which is one of my
favorites. So knees bent, feetspread a little bit, and you
kind of dip down like you're agunslinger about to go into
battle, right. So imagine you'vegot a holster on and you turn
your fingers into into guns. Andyou kind of do a bit of a squat.
And then it goes right hand,left hand, right hand, left
(21:55):
hand, and you've got your fingerguns. And so you go right hand
to the back pocket, left hand tothe back pocket, and then you
bring your right hand in betweenyour legs, and then your left
hand in between your legs, andthen back and forth, and back
and forth. So it's as if you'reholstering weapons at the back,
and then holstering weaponsbetween your legs, and then
(22:16):
holstering at the back, andholstering between your legs.
And there's this kind of shimmyof the shoulders. Again, you got
to get that beat that Dun, dun,dun, dun. It's so cheesy. It's
such fantastic cheese. I loveit.
Christine Malec (22:30):
When you watch it being done, is it self
conscious? Kind of ironiccheese? Or are they full on? Do
they really mean it?
JJ Hunt (22:37):
No, that's the thing.
You look at footage from the1970s of like disco dancing,
either in clubs or in movies.
People are having a great time.
It's fun. But it's serious! Theyare seriously feeling "I am
hot!", there's no irony in discothat I can pick up on.
Christine Malec (23:01):
Ok, ok.
JJ Hunt (23:01):
Now I wasn't dico dancing [in the 70's]. I was
like, five.
Christine Malec (23:05):
Yeah, yeah.
JJ Hunt (23:07):
Someone who was actually disco dancing might say
"No, no, no, no, we knew." Butthat doesn't come across so much
in in the footage that I'mseeing now.
Christine Malec (23:19):
So let's talk hip hop. This is something I
have absolutely no idea aboutthe look of.
JJ Hunt (23:24):
So hip hop. Okay. Just as a just lets us get get this
out there. There's there'snothing less cool than trying to
talk about and describe coolthings. So this might be me at
my least cool and I have set avery high bar for that.
Ha!So here we go. [Narrator voice]
Hip Hop. Hip Hop is a broad termfor street dancing that...
(23:45):
Yeah, it has evolved from like1970s dance crews, and then the
Ha!Soul Train era in the 80s. So
hip hop encompasses breakdancingor breaking, popping, locking,
very heavy on the improv. Andthe thing about hip hop is it it
pulls from anywhere andeverywhere. So you will actually
(24:06):
see some like classic balletmoves that get twisted into hip
hop, you'll definitely see someswing that gets pulled into hip
hop, disco, definitely all ofthese things get pulled in. And
it's again very hard. It's veryit's heavy on the beat, right
movements, gestures, poses, theyalways land on the beat.
(24:31):
Now this might be a bit of afunny observation, but I did
notice as I was, of course,going through footage watching
people dance in various hip hopstyles in videos. Hip Hop
dancing is done to camera. Itkind of breaks the fourth wall.
So hip hop starts in the era ofthe music video, right the home
(24:53):
video camera, and its peoplefilming each other on the street
Dancing in the Street, and thenit evolves through the era of
cameras everywhere all the time.
And I couldn't help but noticethat in YouTube videos, hip hop
dancers are staring at theaudience. If you're watching
swing dancers, they're dancingwith each other. There's a
performative element to it, butthey're looking at each other.
(25:16):
Ballet dancers aren't staring atthe audience. That's not, that's
not the contact point. With hiphop, certainly in videos, you
are always watching theaudience. And your gestures,
your movements, your poses areaggressive. So not just like
disco, which is strutting. Thisis aggressive. "I am doing this
(25:40):
for you, I'm doing this at you.
I am sometimes challenging you."Right? That's the vibe of hip
hop. It's to camera, it's toaudience. Totally different
starting point than any of theother dance dance styles that I
looked at.
Christine Malec (25:59):
How do you know what's hip hop when you watch
it.
JJ Hunt (26:01):
So the gestures, the moves, the poses that are really
aggressive, the spins and flips.
So this is a very acrobaticdance style, so you'll get a lot
of spins, spinning on a head orspinning on one shoulder, maybe
windmill kicks while you'respinning on your back, maybe on
(26:22):
one hand with a bent wrist, likeflips with these kicks, the
scissor kicks, big skills thatare on display, there's
something about, I mean, thismight be a funny comparison, but
it reminds me a little bit oflike skateboarders or
skateboarding.
Christine Malec (26:40):
Oh!
JJ Hunt (26:41):
These dancers have to... there's an element of
tricks in the dancing. I mean,as with any dance, you have to
perform a move over and over,you have to practice it over and
over to get so that you can landit. But with hip hop, some of
the skills that are on displayare really extraordinary. Like
(27:03):
something like popping, inbreakdancing popping and
locking. So if you do the wavewith your arm, or you're popping
it, when you popping it, you canmake your body move in such a
way that you appear to be movingin slow motion, or in stop
action. Or maybe you can looklike you're moving in reverse.
(27:24):
You isolate the different jointsand the different muscles to the
point where you can, look likeyou are defying gravity. You are
isolating the movement of eachmuscle and limb. It's it the
novelty factor of that. It iswild. And then you add that to
(27:47):
an understanding of rhythm andmovement to the beat. And you
incorporate these skills, thesetricks in the middle of a dance
performance. And yeah, that'skind of hip hop. And again, the
attitude. The attitude is thething that that would really...
You know, all of that I supposecould be said of other dance
(28:10):
forms. Maybe some swing perhaps,maybe disco. But it's to camera,
it's to you, and it's done withattitude. It's done with an
aggressive, in your face kind offeel. Yeah.
Christine Malec (28:24):
Okay, so how about like modern electronic
sort of club dancing.
JJ Hunt (28:27):
EDM. The base move is the running man. The running man
is actually a hip hop dance movewhere you're running on the spot
to the beat. But in EDM, you'reshuffling your feet, so it looks
like you're kind of gliding. Soinstead of like lifting up your
(28:51):
knee and putting your foot downand lifting up your knee and
putting your foot down, you'relifting up your front leg, and
then putting your foot down andthe other leg that's on the
floor slides back. And you dothat over and over again. So one
knee up and the other leg slidesand then they switch. And then
the foot that's on the groundnow slides back. There's a
(29:12):
gliding quality to this. It'snot unlike the moonwalk. So the
with the moonwalk, MichaelJackson's famous moonwalk, he
would pull his feet back andthen and then go up onto the
toe. So one foot goes back,slides back on the floor, and
then it goes up onto the toe andthen the next foot slides back
up onto the toe and repeat overand over. And there was a
(29:34):
gliding quality to thatmoonwalk. And then he could
moonwalk, kind of slide, fromside to side. That's the base
for a lot of EDM is this glidingon the floor. So you mix the
gliding action which is reallytrippy, it again has this
quality of being a trick to it,you add that to the heavy
(29:59):
stomping on the beat. If you'recutting shapes in EDM, you are
stomping your legs in differentpositions, kind of kicking to
the sides and kicking to thefront, all while sliding your
other foot. There is anotherworldly quality of mad
skills. There's like somecraziness going on, which works
(30:20):
well if you're listening tomusic that is all about like the
drone. With EDM, you've got thebeat and you've got the droning
quality to the music, and youare quite possibly high. So all
of this works really together.
Lots of foot movement, lots ofankle movement, sometimes the
EDM clothing, maybe you'rewearing glowing treads on the on
(30:43):
the soles of your shoes. So asyou stomp and slide, stomp and
slide and kick and slide, you'vegot these lights that are going
off. And then you canincorporate other kinds of
dancing and add it to the basicshuffle. So you can add some
popping or some breakdancing,you can add some of those
aggressive hip hop, kind ofchest thrusting movements. You
(31:05):
can also add jazz or swing likethe Charleston, which is a swing
dance. It is a really great EDMadd on. So instead of just
shuffling back and forth, youcan do this Charleston, step
back, step in, step out, step inand you can kind of do that,
while you're dancing to EDM.
(31:27):
It's wild, man, it's so trippy.
Christine Malec (31:30):
I'm having a feeling that I get when I listen
to descriptions of visual art.
And to be honest, it's a bit ofa lost feeling. Because you've
used about 59 terms that wewould spend all day trying to
define and I still have thesense that the essence is...
eluding me still. So genreaside, what makes a good dancer.
JJ Hunt (31:59):
I think fluidity. I think being... you talked
earlier about this idea of ofbeing free, and feeling the
music. Any dancer in any one ofthese styles, no matter how well
(32:20):
they have practiced andmemorized the steps... If you
can memorize the steps of theCharleston, for example, you
might intellectually know how todo it. But if you can't let your
body move, if you can't open upyour hips, and be unafraid to
(32:42):
look ridiculous, and kind ofmove past that it will only ever
look robotic. It will look likean intellectual pursuit, not a
physical one. And there'ssomething about watching other
people who can dance, and I'mcertainly not one of them. I'm
not a dancer, I can't I don'tget over myself enough to dance
(33:04):
openly and freely. But whensomeone is, it's kind of
magnetic.
Christine Malec (33:12):
There's a total paradox here. So there's this
grab bag of words like rhythm,which I associate with a certain
thing, and then fluidity, whichseems totally different. And
then technique, and thenopenness, and then spontaneity
and genuineness. These all don'tmeld. It's very complicated. And
(33:37):
I still feel -and I hope that Ihope our listeners don't feel
this way - but I still feel thatthe essence eludes me. And I'm
not sure why that is. I'm okayto dance, I don't have too much
pride. I'll just go crazy andjump around and stuff. But I
still feel like there's anessence that will always elude
me because it's such a wholebody thing. And to watch it,
(34:03):
yeah, it's a very sighted thing.
I don't know, maybe that's me.
JJ Hunt (34:08):
I'm not sure what this is. I'm not sure if this is what
Molly was looking for! But it'swhat we got!
Christine Malec (34:13):
Now I'm self conscious about having said all
of these like limiting thingsand making dance into a
performative thing. And that'sthe last thing that should be
said about dance because reallydance is just about the
experience of the dancer. And soI hope that anyone who's
listening as you know doesn'tfeel more more daunted, as
(34:34):
opposed to freed by by thisconversation, because it's meant
to be instructive. But the truthabout dancing really is that
it's just about how it makes youfeel. So whatever you do, you kn
w, if you want to be in the prvacy of your own living ro
m with the curtains closed, dn't don't be inhibited about dan
ing! Because when you do it, yu know what feels right. So I
hope that listeners take this asinstructive and not no
(34:56):
discouraging because dncing actually really is qui
e fun and everyone should do itometimes even if it's just alon
in your living room.
We love making this podcast. Ifyou love hearing it, perhaps
you'll consider supporting itscreation and development by
(35:16):
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entertaining journalismcontinues to reach our
community. Visit patreon.comslash talk description to me
that's pa t ar e o n.com slashtalk description to me have
(35:38):
feedback or suggestions of whatyou'd like to hear about here's
how to get in touch with us. Ouremail address is talk
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