May 8, 2021 • 33 mins
If you go way way up, and look way way down, what you see can be surprising. In this episode, Christine and JJ describe satellite images and discuss the intriguing perspective they provide. From ecology to archeology to a view of ourselves, the big picture has an awful lot to offer!
To explore Google Timelapse, as discussed in this episode, visit: g.co/Timelapse
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Episode Transcript
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JJ Hunt (00:04):
Talk description to me with Christine Malec and JJ
Hunt.
Christine Malec (00:29):
Hi, I'm Christine Malec.
JJ Hunt (00:30):
And I'm JJ Hunt. This is talk description to Me where
the visuals of current eventsand the world around us get
hashtag in description richconversations.
Christine Malec (00:47):
Before we get going today, we want to announce
our very first clubhouse eventvery exciting. On May 20, we
will be having special guestexperts, Kim Arcand from the
Chandra X ray observatory. Soour clubhouse events are going
to be a combination of guestexperts and professional
(01:09):
description. So they're going toprovide some really amazing
opportunities for learning. Andwe're hoping to have one each
month. And so if you are on theclubhouse, please follow us at
talk description to me and lookfor our event describing the
invisible universe. That's may28 at 7pm Eastern. Today, we're
(01:32):
going to talk about satelliteimagery and all sorts of imagery
from above. And this takes somany fascinating forms. And, JJ,
maybe it's helpful to start bytalking about why these kinds of
images are so powerful and souseful.
JJ Hunt (01:50):
Yeah, I mean, there's so many different kinds of
applications now for satelliteimagery. It's really quite
staggering. You know, satelliteimagery is used in meteorology,
oceanography, fishing,agriculture, in you know,
conservation, forestry andlandscaping in geology and
cartography in archaeology,regional planning, education,
(02:12):
intelligence and warfare, it'sused all over the place, and the
satellite with the longersatellites are in space. The
more images we have, the morecan be done with them. And some
of these images some satelliteimages have played pretty major
roles in history and kind of aneven key to our understanding of
self right like, think of thethe famous photo called the blue
(02:35):
marble. This was taken onDecember 7 1972, from 29,000
kilometers above the earth onthe Apollo 17 mission. This is a
clean and crisp image of theearth, it's a perfect looking
sphere, against the blackbackdrop, and the earth has
(02:56):
swirls of white clouds coveringdark blue oceans and, and
brownish landforms. The sun forthis picture was behind the
astronauts. So in this image theearth is in is in full light, it
makes it particularly clear andbright. And this picture of the
Earth was was revolutionary topeople there had been pictures
(03:19):
from space of Earth before andother Apollo missions. But this
one was so vivid, so clear, ithas become one of the most
widely distributed photos evertaken in the history of
photography. And then thinkabout like, so the US Secretary
of State Colin Powell,infamously used satellite images
(03:42):
and images from spy planes asproof that Iraq was hiding
weapons of mass destruction.
This was in his 2003presentation to the United
Nations. Those images were werereally grainy in 2003. The
images from satellites werequite grainy, these ones were
black and white. And what theyshowed were roads and rooftops,
deserts and farm fields. Thoseare all identifiable but the
(04:06):
details were not overly clear,just based on the visuals alone,
so interpretations were addeddirectly onto the images. So in
these gray grainy imagespresented by Powell, buildings,
labeled munitions bunkers arecircled in yellow and are part
of the active chemical munitionsbunkers. Those are outlined in
(04:29):
in more aggressive red squares.
And then in close ups, buildingsand vehicles are identified by
yellow text boxes with speechbubble tales, and they
identified objects such asmissile storage containers, and
warhead canisters. Now, almostall of that was incorrect. But
(04:50):
it was an incredibledemonstration of the power of an
annotated image presented by anauthority figure. So these
satellites Images. I mean, theydo everything from track a
global warming and give us asense of self, but also can be
instrumental in the launching ofwars and satellite images are
(05:14):
really quite key to ourunderstanding of self.
Christine Malec (05:17):
On April 15, Google Earth launched something
that's really exciting. And it'sactually something I've wondered
about before. And it's abasically a time lapse tool for
satellite imagery. Can you tellus about that?
JJ Hunt (05:32):
Yeah. So this time lapse, Google Timelapse allows
users to view changes to theearth through a series of
satellite images taken between Ithink it's 1984 and 2020. So
Google has an incredible amountof data - of imagery - that's
been accumulated in that time.
And if you go to the time lapsewebsite, which is g.co, slash
(05:53):
timelapse, we'll be sure to puta link in our in our show notes.
And you can go to the website,and you type in your location
that you're interested in. Andso I was trying to think when I
when I went onto the website, Iwanted to go to a place I wanted
to see a time lapse of a placethat I knew that but it was kind
of remote, maybe it's a littleoff the beaten track. My brother
(06:15):
and sister in law live on KohTao, this is an island off the
east coast of Thailand. And, andI know that island reasonably
well, I know there's been somechanges there. So I typed in Koh
Tao, into the website. And whathappens is, you get swept there,
it's like you're flying. Sovisually, you scan over, you
soar over the earth, the Earthturns you zip over oceans and
(06:39):
continents, until you arrive atyour destination. And then the
image, basically, you get parkedabove whatever it is that you've
typed. In this case, it was anisland, but it could be a city,
it could be a mountain range, ifit's in their system, you will
zip right there and just kind ofPark above it high in the air
and look down. So Koh Tao is, isa is a small little Green
(07:04):
Island. It's changeddramatically in the last 20
years, it went from like a smallbackpackers diving island to a
major tourist destination. Sowhat happens is the time lapse
automatically plays kind of likea jerky stop action film. And
over the course of these images,this little green island in the
(07:26):
Gulf of Thailand, starts to geta few brown patches in this in
this lush green Island. Theseare clearings these are towns
being developed. And then thosebrown patches spread. And they
are surrounded by very finebrown lines, these are roads.
And then those roads spread andgrow until they connect these
(07:47):
little dots are connected by thelittle brown dots that have
spread and grown are connectedto these roads that are all
spreading and growing. And thenfinally, you get to where Koh
Tao is today, which is still alush green Island. But it's got
some fairly major developmentsconnected by roads. And all of
that is visible from space inthese images. Not all of these
(08:10):
satellite images in the Googletime lapse website are perfect.
Some of the images are grainy,or maybe a little digitized.
Sometimes there's cloud movementover, you know, in some
locations, but they're certainlyclear enough to be useful. What
Google has done is they'vereleased a series of more
processed cleaner, fullyproduced time lapse videos. So
(08:31):
there are, I think 300 videosfrom locations around the world.
All of them are about 40 secondslong. And they begin with little
fanfare, you can find them onYouTube, or you can find them
through Google. And they beginwith very little fanfare, you
just kind of turn on you zipover the earth in that same way
that I described before. Youthen hover over a location with
a little bit of movement. Andyou watch the images play in
(08:54):
sequence again, like a stopaction movie. There are also
there's a series of curatedmovies, like three, three minute
long videos, one's called ourcities, one's our forest, and
one is our oceans. These arepretty highly produced. They
have soundtracks, they've Onscreen text and messaging, very
clean, beautiful images. Sothey've they've processed the
(09:15):
images more so that they're morecinematic, they're more
cinematic than like you're usinga just a straightforward mapping
tool. And the thing is, inalmost every case, in these
movies, humans are clearlycolonizing and the planet is
reacting. Almost everything thatyou look at whether it's cities
(09:38):
growing and a you know, youknow, taking up the land around
them, forests being cut down oroceans ocean levels rising and
you know, ice sheets melting allof that is clear through these
time lapse. So for example, inthe cities video, you go to
Dubai. You start in Dubai,you're kind of hovering over
(10:01):
Dubai. And the on screen texttells you that it's 1984. And at
this point, the city has apopulation of 325,000. It's a
coastal city, that's reallynothing more than a strip, a
very fine strip of developmentat the edge of a sandy desert.
And then the time lapse beginsand it starts zipping by year by
(10:23):
year by year image by image byimage. And by 2001, the city has
grown to almost 2 millionpeople. And that strip of
development has expanded quitesignificantly. And then really
abruptly, in only a few quickphotos, these strange landforms
just pop up in the water. Andthese are the famous artificial
(10:45):
islands that have been createdoff of Dubai. Some of them are
shaped like palm leaves withlike encircled palm leaves. And
other of these false islands areclustered in a fabricated
archipelago. And in this timelapse video, they just seem to
appear out of nowhere, they justpop up these landforms. And the
on screen text tells you that bythe year 2020, the population
(11:08):
has grown to over 3 million, soa tenfold increase in 35 years.
It's just, it's quitestaggering. The visuals of these
are really staggering.
Christine Malec (11:23):
I feel like it watching them, you know that
there's life involved. It'shumans and forests. But I have
the sense that watching it, itwould be as though you were
watching some distinct lifeform. Am I making any sense
there?
JJ Hunt (11:40):
Yeah, the way the way the spread works, there is a
there is an intention to it, tothe way it moves. And it's
slightly different in differentplaces. Like in the in the "Our
forest" video, for example, theytake you from forest one forest
to another that starts green andlush, and then gets turns brown
over time, because the thedeforestation, and it's
(12:03):
different in different places.
So some of the landscapes are,you know, there's mountain
landscapes, coastal landscapes,there's deep, deep forest. And
in some cases, I think it was inthe mountains of Oregon, the
forests are cut down patch bypatch. So what you get are these
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,these patches of brown that pop
up all over the place until whatwas a Green Mountain, green
(12:26):
mountain ranges, are now reallyheavily populated with brown
patches. And then in some casesit's more of a spread, right? In
some cases there's almost a linethat keeps moving, an
encroachment of clear cuttingthat just goes further and
further and further and further.
(12:48):
And so I'm not sure which onelooks more intentional or more
parasitic, almost. But there aredifferent ways this spread, or
this kind of popping up thatit's like gobbled up here
gobbled up, they're gobbled uphere.
Christine Malec (13:03):
It's allowing us to look at the recent past.
But one of the things that'salways really intrigued me about
satellite imagery is its use inarchaeology. And I've read some
fascinating articles aboutthings archaeologists have been
able to identify that you justcannot see from the ground. But
(13:24):
once you get high above theground, some things become
really obvious. And they becomehuge archaeological discoveries.
What did you find in the realmof archaeology?
JJ Hunt (13:34):
I'm totally with you.
I'm fascinated by this. Sosatellite archaeology is kind of
archaeological imaging that'snot entirely dissimilar to the
ground penetrating radar thatcan be used at surface level.
Archaeologists can use radar tofind out what's underground. But
you can only do that, you know,a few meters at a time when
you're on the earth, whatarchaeologists do is use high
(13:56):
resolution satellites that havethermal and infrared
capabilities. And the infraredlight from the satellites can
penetrate the earth surface toabout a meters depth. And the
resulting images are thenprocessed. And what these
identify are anomalies in thesoil, vegetation, and geology.
(14:17):
And these these anomalies willsuggest earlier human activity.
And because you're not doingthis meter square meter by
square meter on the ground, youcan really do this like almost
square kilometer at a time, youcan get a ton of information,
and therefore, you have greatercontext, right? So I've got a
(14:37):
pair of images here that I dugup that were captured using this
technology, one of the images israw, and then one is is
processed. The raw image thatwas that was pulled up is this.
It's pale and it's blurry andit's pixelated, so it's an image
of muted greens. There's alittle bit of pinkish yellow
(14:58):
mix. in there, and right nearthe center of this image are
some darker lines, they'refaint. But there they are
reasonably clear. It's it's thefact that that the lines are
kind of straight. That makesthem distinct in this otherwise
very, very blurry image. But theprocessed version of this image
is totally different. So itlooks more like a kind of a poor
(15:20):
resolution photo of a forestcanopy taken from above. And so
it's basically it looks likeit's packed, the whole image is
packed with tufts of greenery.
But right in the middle is thisseries of dark, straight lines,
that they're kind of arrangedlike an architect's floor plans.
If you're going to buy a newcondo or something and you and
(15:43):
it hasn't been built yet, youget the architect's plans. And
what you see are all of thewalls on the the exterior and
thinner walls on the interior.
That's what these series ofstraight lines looks like in the
processed image. It'srepresenting a break, these
lines represent a break in theunderground soil structure,
likely the remnants of walls. Sowith this image in hand,
(16:06):
archaeologists can dig withconfidence knowing that there's
something significant underfoot,even if the topography of the
land doesn't show any visiblesigns of that. There's another
technology that's used inarchaeology called LIDAR. LIDAR
is used to very similar effect.
But but with LIDAR, it's theseare images taken from a plane or
(16:28):
this is using planes that flyover a point of interest.
Instead of just taking images,they actually shoot laser pulses
at the ground. And these laserpulses are then used to create
the the information is broughtback. And they can create
digital 3D maps of the terrainbased on what the lasers hit.
(16:49):
And this can work, you can zapright through the forest canopy,
you can zap right through thevegetation. And what you're
taking images of are just solidmaterials that are above the
surface, and also under the soilsurface. So let's say you're
walking through the forestaround Angkor Wat in Cambodia,
(17:11):
and you come across a mound ofearth or like a mound of some
kind of plant materialvegetation, you might notice it,
but you might not right, itmight just you might just
register as part of thelandscape. But when you have
LIDAR imagery, that moundbecomes really clear. And it's
it's also clear, because of thecontext, the context of that
(17:32):
mound, how it relates or isconnected to other underground
shapes and structures, thatbecomes really clear. Again,
because you're taking imagesfrom so much higher up, you're
getting a much broaderunderstanding of the area, these
images are quite different.
Because they're visualizationsof the data, they're not really
photographs. So what they end uplooking like are very bright,
(17:53):
outrageously colorful 3d images,kind of like they look like
they're almost from video games.
So instead of being shown just aperfect bird's eye view, looking
straight down, as you will oftenget in a satellite image. These
images are often presented at aslight angle that highlights the
(18:14):
three dimensionality that isthat you're capable of producing
with this LIDAR. I've got acouple of different images here.
One image is neon yellows, and alittle bit of orange, and
there's some kind of green tintsto it. This is a picture of
Tikal an ancient Mayan city inGuatemala, then this image, this
(18:36):
you know, produced image, itlooks kind of like a tactile
replica that you would find in amuseum, but it doesn't have any
trees, there's no vegetationthat is, you know, weeded out as
this as it were, by the by theLIDAR. And it's as if you're
looking at one of these museumreplicas, through yellow tinted
(18:56):
sunglasses. I've got anotherimage also of Tikal, and this
one looks like it's been takenthrough night vision goggles.
Here, they're the differentheights. So the different
stratas have been digitallyassigned different colors. Most
of the land is neon blue, anunderground structures are very
dark blue. But then platformsand low walls, those are
(19:20):
turquoise, and pyramids areyellow, and even orange, so the
different heights get differentcolors. So if a foundation
that's buried a foot undergroundthat will register in this image
as dark blue, and might have aturquoise outline, if the
fragments of the outside wallsstill remain. And if a structure
(19:41):
is buried under a mound thatmight register as yellow. So
from ground level, this willjust look like a rain forest
with mounds of Earth surroundinga few pyramids or temples that
have been exposed and excavated.
And if you were to take a lookat this using a traditional
satellite, you would probablynot see anything but a forest
canopy surrounding the alreadyexposed pyramids. But by using
(20:03):
infrared satellites and LIDARimagery, the structures beneath
the vegetation, and even in thetop layers of the soil and
Earth, they become clear andvisible. It's amazing.
Christine Malec (20:17):
That is so awesome. That's like ghostly.
Did you see any of roads?
Ancient roadbeds?
JJ Hunt (20:24):
Yeah, I have seen a couple of those there are. When
Oh, when I was in Mexico,recently, a few of these ancient
Mayan cities were connected byhundreds of kilometers of roads,
just, I mean, incredibly longroads. And, and parts of those
(20:46):
roads have been excavated. Andwhat they found was that the
roads are actually the surfaceof the roads were built with
crushed shells, so that theywould glow in the moonlight. So
you could actually travel theseroads at night, but just off of
the lights reflecting off thefull moon, quite amazing. So
you'll get sections of theseroads that have been excavated,
(21:08):
they've been found. But then ifyou use this technology, the
LIDAR technology or otherarchaeological satellite tech,
you can see how they connectfrom, you know, one ancient city
to another, which might be youknow, 100 kilometers away. It's
remarkable.
Christine Malec (21:25):
That is so ghostly and cool. I love the
overlap of archaeology andsatellite technology, that is
just so awesome! When ChrisHadfield was commander of the
International Space Station, hewas tweeting a lot of photos,
and I was following him at thetime. Because he was very good
(21:52):
at telling you what was in thephoto. And before we dive into
this, I just want to say that myprofessional ambition is to
interview Chris Hadfield. So ifanyone knows him, I'm just
putting that out into the worldthat if you can get me past his
people, I really want tointerview Chris Hadfield. But
that's just a side note. As aside. Yeah, just a side note, is
(22:13):
his photo descriptions werequite beautiful. And he's not
describing them for blindpeople. Although I will add that
he did tweet one at one pointand said, I've become aware that
I have several blind andvisually impaired followers. So
I'm going to start sending outmore multisensory material,
(22:34):
which he did, because that's thekind of great guy he is, but
even his own photo descriptionswere compelling to me as a blind
person. And so when JJ and Iwere talking about this episode,
I dug up I had curated for foranother presentation, I had kept
a bunch of texts of his tweets,because just the photo
(22:54):
descriptions themselves were souseful. And so I asked JJ, if he
would have a look back and seeif any of these were, were worth
describing. And we both feltthat that some of them were so
JJ, what did you find?
JJ Hunt (23:09):
Tons of these photos, and you had a good long list
that you sent me, and I reallycould have described any of them
and be quite happy because theyare amazing photos. Often photos
that come from astronauts,they're somewhat scientific, and
they're somewhat artful. But Imean, your Astro hunk, really
did elevate the art form! Hereally did.
Christine Malec (23:30):
Tee hee hee.
JJ Hunt (23:31):
He took some beautiful images. So I've got a couple
here. Let's start with this oneof the Egyptian Israel border.
This is a really interestingimage. So when I was a kid, I
actually thought that the linesthat were drawn on the maps were
real, I thought those weretangible, physical borders.
Christine Malec (23:50):
Me too!
JJ Hunt (23:50):
You too?! I guess it's not because it makes
intellectual sense but becauseof the visual representations of
borders on maps is soubiquitous, I just presumed it
to be reality.
Christine Malec (24:02):
For sure.
JJ Hunt (24:02):
In fact, they're very, very, very rarely, you know
unless the border is a river orsomething like that, borders are
generally invisible, ifespecially from space. But Chris
Hadfield took a picture of thisone this, the border between
Egypt and Israel is actuallyvisible from the International
(24:23):
Space Station. So let's startwith a bit of the geography
because that'll help with thedescription. The image that he
presented features a section ofthe curved shoreline of the
Mediterranean Sea. Some mightremember that description from
our episode of the ship stuck inthe Suez Canal. And the border
between Egypt and Israel runsmore or less north south. Egypt
(24:45):
is on the west side. So thatwould be the left side of North
is is pointing up is generallythe case in depictions in Israel
and the Gaza Strip there on theEast or the right side. So in in
commander Hatfields photo, thecurve shoreline is at the top of
the image. So it forms kind oflike a bowl of dark blue water.
(25:06):
And the shoreline itself isquite clear. And even so it's
not it's not super rough, it'snot very nobly it's a very clear
shoreline. And right in thecenter is where the border line
begins. In this orientation, itcuts down and to the left. So
it's kind of aiming for likeseven o'clock on a clock face.
(25:28):
Now there is an actual fencealong the border. But that fence
is in no way visible from thespace station, it's just far too
narrow to be visible from space,the border is clear, because of
the different landscape andhuman activity on either side,
that's what makes the line looklike a line because of what's
(25:49):
going on on either side. So atthe water's edge, on the
Egyptian side, is a patchwork ofrectangular green and brown farm
fields. It looks like they weremade with like tiny flicks of a
very fine brush, right, thislittle patchwork of, you know,
farm fields. And then on theeast side, right along the
water, that's the Gaza side isthere's the Gaza side of the
(26:13):
city of Rafah. This is a splitcity, but a lot of it is on the
the Gaza side. And from thedistance, it looks like a steel
blue cloud like this color ofsteel blue. And that's because
of the amount of concreteconstruction in the city. So on
one side, you have farmer'sfields. On the other side, you
(26:34):
have this concrete blue color,and then you move further
inland, so in the image a littlebit down. And then there are
farm fields on both the Egyptianand Israeli sides of the border.
But in Egypt, these fields areover grazed, and they're not
very well irrigated. So theyactually look really quite
Sandy. They're very, they'requite sandy brown. But in
(26:55):
Israel, these fields are moreirrigated, and so therefore,
they are more green. So as youmove inland, you get Egypt with
brownfields and Israel withgreen and so that creates the
line the separation if you morefurther inland soak again
further toward the down towardthe bottom of the image. The
(27:16):
border line continues, becauseon the Egyptian side, the
grazing of livestock and thetrampling by humans has exposed
the light colored sand, which iskind of like the color of milky
tea. But the land is moreundisturbed on the Israeli side.
So the darker soil, that's a topthe sand dunes is still intact.
(27:38):
So they've got this defacto linein the sand because there's a
bit of texture that looks almostlike stippled, you know, light
gray paint on top of the Milkytea on one side. And on the
other side, it's just this milkytea color. All of that is, is is
packed in to one image takenfrom the space station.
Christine Malec (28:00):
Yeah, he liked to look at lands the interaction
between landscape and humanhuman activity. What other ones
did you find?
JJ Hunt (28:10):
There's another one tha 's it's quite striking. Again,
his idea of human activity andlandscape, there's a photo that
he dubbed the polka dot desert.
o here is a sandy desert againthe color of milky tea. And the
e are a few discernibleidges a little bit of texture t
the desert. So there's likea C shaped Ridge where the sa
d on the inside of the Seas a lttle bit darker. The Ridge it
(28:30):
elf has like a crumb like txture. And at the upper left,
here are some darker spotsit almost looks speckled. I'
not actually sure what that isBut the really notable feat
re in this photograph ithe series of perfect blue
circles, dotting the desert.
nd in his caption, Commander Hafield identifies these as Cen
(28:53):
erpoint irrigation farms. So Ceterpoint irrigation farms are fa
m fields that are irrigated bysprinkler systems that move in
a circular pattern around a cena central point. So the resul
is perfectly round fields and isatellite images of lush farm
ng land. So you'll see this acrss the United States and i
(29:15):
Canada. In those lush farming aeas, satellite images are look
ike grids filled with circles ishades of green. Outside of th
circles, you're going to hve paler green and inside the ci
cles, it's going to be darkerreen, because that's what's
getting the irrigation. Bt in this image, it's really
(29:36):
ntriguing because those the cicles are kind of blue. I'm no
sure why they're blue if it'sjust the amount of water that's
being used, but they're surrunded by sandy desert. So t
e circles are perfect circes surrounded by desert and t
ey're in really quite a quiry configuration. It's almost
ike someone was making a heat shape with Braille dots
(29:57):
So they made the bumps at theTop using these dots, and th
n they started going down te right side and then they go
bored and stopped. That's the sape of these dots. And some of
he blues are quite dark and opaue. But some of them are rea
ly quite faint and they're, the're transparent almost so yo
(30:18):
can see the sand quality beneth them. Really quite striki
g. Very, very artful, beauiful image.
Christine Malec (30:26):
And you would never see this perspective
except from above. I could dothis all day. Okay, what else
have you got?
JJ Hunt (30:33):
Okay, I got one more.
This is the Australian outbackOkay, so this image I ho
estly I hardly know what I'm loking at here, The landsca
e fills the frame so there arno clear points of referenc
. There's nothing that's rally discernible. I, I genuine
y don't even know what I'm looing at here. So I'm just going t
describe it as a piece of art.
(30:54):
In his description Hadfield sas Jackson Pollock would have be
n would have been further inpired by seeing the outback fr
m orbit. And it's true. This loks like a like a Jackson Po
lock painting with streaks of coors and dots on a canvas. It's r
ally wild. So what we have ian image in terracotta
(31:15):
reds, and kind of cloudy ocen blues. And it resembles
a close up of a bowling ball,elieve it or not. It looks like
marble cave wall with drippng mineral streaks. If this was
vertical image, I would descrbe the terracotta color as almo
t dripping down into the patces of blue. And I genuinely d
(31:39):
n't really know what it I can'teven imagine what this looks lik
from ground level. It is suh an amazing, dripping meld
ng of colors and the blues wih the cloudy patches and the s
reaking. It's really mesmrizing purely as a piece of art
(32:00):
It's beautiful. It's a lovelyimage.
Christine Malec (32:06):
If we have any Australian listeners who have
insights about what that'sabout, please, please email us
or let us know somehow. We lovemaking this podcast. If you love
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(32:27):
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(32:48):
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u can follow us on Twitter at tak descriptio
Talk description to me with Christine Malec and JJ
Hunt.
Christine Malec (00:29):
Hi, I'm Christine Malec.
JJ Hunt (00:30):
And I'm JJ Hunt. This is talk description to Me where
the visuals of current eventsand the world around us get
hashtag in description richconversations.
Christine Malec (00:47):
Before we get going today, we want to announce
our very first clubhouse eventvery exciting. On May 20, we
will be having special guestexperts, Kim Arcand from the
Chandra X ray observatory. Soour clubhouse events are going
to be a combination of guestexperts and professional
(01:09):
description. So they're going toprovide some really amazing
opportunities for learning. Andwe're hoping to have one each
month. And so if you are on theclubhouse, please follow us at
talk description to me and lookfor our event describing the
invisible universe. That's may28 at 7pm Eastern. Today, we're
(01:32):
going to talk about satelliteimagery and all sorts of imagery
from above. And this takes somany fascinating forms. And, JJ,
maybe it's helpful to start bytalking about why these kinds of
images are so powerful and souseful.
JJ Hunt (01:50):
Yeah, I mean, there's so many different kinds of
applications now for satelliteimagery. It's really quite
staggering. You know, satelliteimagery is used in meteorology,
oceanography, fishing,agriculture, in you know,
conservation, forestry andlandscaping in geology and
cartography in archaeology,regional planning, education,
(02:12):
intelligence and warfare, it'sused all over the place, and the
satellite with the longersatellites are in space. The
more images we have, the morecan be done with them. And some
of these images some satelliteimages have played pretty major
roles in history and kind of aneven key to our understanding of
self right like, think of thethe famous photo called the blue
(02:35):
marble. This was taken onDecember 7 1972, from 29,000
kilometers above the earth onthe Apollo 17 mission. This is a
clean and crisp image of theearth, it's a perfect looking
sphere, against the blackbackdrop, and the earth has
(02:56):
swirls of white clouds coveringdark blue oceans and, and
brownish landforms. The sun forthis picture was behind the
astronauts. So in this image theearth is in is in full light, it
makes it particularly clear andbright. And this picture of the
Earth was was revolutionary topeople there had been pictures
(03:19):
from space of Earth before andother Apollo missions. But this
one was so vivid, so clear, ithas become one of the most
widely distributed photos evertaken in the history of
photography. And then thinkabout like, so the US Secretary
of State Colin Powell,infamously used satellite images
(03:42):
and images from spy planes asproof that Iraq was hiding
weapons of mass destruction.
This was in his 2003presentation to the United
Nations. Those images were werereally grainy in 2003. The
images from satellites werequite grainy, these ones were
black and white. And what theyshowed were roads and rooftops,
deserts and farm fields. Thoseare all identifiable but the
(04:06):
details were not overly clear,just based on the visuals alone,
so interpretations were addeddirectly onto the images. So in
these gray grainy imagespresented by Powell, buildings,
labeled munitions bunkers arecircled in yellow and are part
of the active chemical munitionsbunkers. Those are outlined in
(04:29):
in more aggressive red squares.
And then in close ups, buildingsand vehicles are identified by
yellow text boxes with speechbubble tales, and they
identified objects such asmissile storage containers, and
warhead canisters. Now, almostall of that was incorrect. But
(04:50):
it was an incredibledemonstration of the power of an
annotated image presented by anauthority figure. So these
satellites Images. I mean, theydo everything from track a
global warming and give us asense of self, but also can be
instrumental in the launching ofwars and satellite images are
(05:14):
really quite key to ourunderstanding of self.
Christine Malec (05:17):
On April 15, Google Earth launched something
that's really exciting. And it'sactually something I've wondered
about before. And it's abasically a time lapse tool for
satellite imagery. Can you tellus about that?
JJ Hunt (05:32):
Yeah. So this time lapse, Google Timelapse allows
users to view changes to theearth through a series of
satellite images taken between Ithink it's 1984 and 2020. So
Google has an incredible amountof data - of imagery - that's
been accumulated in that time.
And if you go to the time lapsewebsite, which is g.co, slash
(05:53):
timelapse, we'll be sure to puta link in our in our show notes.
And you can go to the website,and you type in your location
that you're interested in. Andso I was trying to think when I
when I went onto the website, Iwanted to go to a place I wanted
to see a time lapse of a placethat I knew that but it was kind
of remote, maybe it's a littleoff the beaten track. My brother
(06:15):
and sister in law live on KohTao, this is an island off the
east coast of Thailand. And, andI know that island reasonably
well, I know there's been somechanges there. So I typed in Koh
Tao, into the website. And whathappens is, you get swept there,
it's like you're flying. Sovisually, you scan over, you
soar over the earth, the Earthturns you zip over oceans and
(06:39):
continents, until you arrive atyour destination. And then the
image, basically, you get parkedabove whatever it is that you've
typed. In this case, it was anisland, but it could be a city,
it could be a mountain range, ifit's in their system, you will
zip right there and just kind ofPark above it high in the air
and look down. So Koh Tao is, isa is a small little Green
(07:04):
Island. It's changeddramatically in the last 20
years, it went from like a smallbackpackers diving island to a
major tourist destination. Sowhat happens is the time lapse
automatically plays kind of likea jerky stop action film. And
over the course of these images,this little green island in the
(07:26):
Gulf of Thailand, starts to geta few brown patches in this in
this lush green Island. Theseare clearings these are towns
being developed. And then thosebrown patches spread. And they
are surrounded by very finebrown lines, these are roads.
And then those roads spread andgrow until they connect these
(07:47):
little dots are connected by thelittle brown dots that have
spread and grown are connectedto these roads that are all
spreading and growing. And thenfinally, you get to where Koh
Tao is today, which is still alush green Island. But it's got
some fairly major developmentsconnected by roads. And all of
that is visible from space inthese images. Not all of these
(08:10):
satellite images in the Googletime lapse website are perfect.
Some of the images are grainy,or maybe a little digitized.
Sometimes there's cloud movementover, you know, in some
locations, but they're certainlyclear enough to be useful. What
Google has done is they'vereleased a series of more
processed cleaner, fullyproduced time lapse videos. So
(08:31):
there are, I think 300 videosfrom locations around the world.
All of them are about 40 secondslong. And they begin with little
fanfare, you can find them onYouTube, or you can find them
through Google. And they beginwith very little fanfare, you
just kind of turn on you zipover the earth in that same way
that I described before. Youthen hover over a location with
a little bit of movement. Andyou watch the images play in
(08:54):
sequence again, like a stopaction movie. There are also
there's a series of curatedmovies, like three, three minute
long videos, one's called ourcities, one's our forest, and
one is our oceans. These arepretty highly produced. They
have soundtracks, they've Onscreen text and messaging, very
clean, beautiful images. Sothey've they've processed the
(09:15):
images more so that they're morecinematic, they're more
cinematic than like you're usinga just a straightforward mapping
tool. And the thing is, inalmost every case, in these
movies, humans are clearlycolonizing and the planet is
reacting. Almost everything thatyou look at whether it's cities
(09:38):
growing and a you know, youknow, taking up the land around
them, forests being cut down oroceans ocean levels rising and
you know, ice sheets melting allof that is clear through these
time lapse. So for example, inthe cities video, you go to
Dubai. You start in Dubai,you're kind of hovering over
(10:01):
Dubai. And the on screen texttells you that it's 1984. And at
this point, the city has apopulation of 325,000. It's a
coastal city, that's reallynothing more than a strip, a
very fine strip of developmentat the edge of a sandy desert.
And then the time lapse beginsand it starts zipping by year by
(10:23):
year by year image by image byimage. And by 2001, the city has
grown to almost 2 millionpeople. And that strip of
development has expanded quitesignificantly. And then really
abruptly, in only a few quickphotos, these strange landforms
just pop up in the water. Andthese are the famous artificial
(10:45):
islands that have been createdoff of Dubai. Some of them are
shaped like palm leaves withlike encircled palm leaves. And
other of these false islands areclustered in a fabricated
archipelago. And in this timelapse video, they just seem to
appear out of nowhere, they justpop up these landforms. And the
on screen text tells you that bythe year 2020, the population
(11:08):
has grown to over 3 million, soa tenfold increase in 35 years.
It's just, it's quitestaggering. The visuals of these
are really staggering.
Christine Malec (11:23):
I feel like it watching them, you know that
there's life involved. It'shumans and forests. But I have
the sense that watching it, itwould be as though you were
watching some distinct lifeform. Am I making any sense
there?
JJ Hunt (11:40):
Yeah, the way the way the spread works, there is a
there is an intention to it, tothe way it moves. And it's
slightly different in differentplaces. Like in the in the "Our
forest" video, for example, theytake you from forest one forest
to another that starts green andlush, and then gets turns brown
over time, because the thedeforestation, and it's
(12:03):
different in different places.
So some of the landscapes are,you know, there's mountain
landscapes, coastal landscapes,there's deep, deep forest. And
in some cases, I think it was inthe mountains of Oregon, the
forests are cut down patch bypatch. So what you get are these
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,these patches of brown that pop
up all over the place until whatwas a Green Mountain, green
(12:26):
mountain ranges, are now reallyheavily populated with brown
patches. And then in some casesit's more of a spread, right? In
some cases there's almost a linethat keeps moving, an
encroachment of clear cuttingthat just goes further and
further and further and further.
(12:48):
And so I'm not sure which onelooks more intentional or more
parasitic, almost. But there aredifferent ways this spread, or
this kind of popping up thatit's like gobbled up here
gobbled up, they're gobbled uphere.
Christine Malec (13:03):
It's allowing us to look at the recent past.
But one of the things that'salways really intrigued me about
satellite imagery is its use inarchaeology. And I've read some
fascinating articles aboutthings archaeologists have been
able to identify that you justcannot see from the ground. But
(13:24):
once you get high above theground, some things become
really obvious. And they becomehuge archaeological discoveries.
What did you find in the realmof archaeology?
JJ Hunt (13:34):
I'm totally with you.
I'm fascinated by this. Sosatellite archaeology is kind of
archaeological imaging that'snot entirely dissimilar to the
ground penetrating radar thatcan be used at surface level.
Archaeologists can use radar tofind out what's underground. But
you can only do that, you know,a few meters at a time when
you're on the earth, whatarchaeologists do is use high
(13:56):
resolution satellites that havethermal and infrared
capabilities. And the infraredlight from the satellites can
penetrate the earth surface toabout a meters depth. And the
resulting images are thenprocessed. And what these
identify are anomalies in thesoil, vegetation, and geology.
(14:17):
And these these anomalies willsuggest earlier human activity.
And because you're not doingthis meter square meter by
square meter on the ground, youcan really do this like almost
square kilometer at a time, youcan get a ton of information,
and therefore, you have greatercontext, right? So I've got a
(14:37):
pair of images here that I dugup that were captured using this
technology, one of the images israw, and then one is is
processed. The raw image thatwas that was pulled up is this.
It's pale and it's blurry andit's pixelated, so it's an image
of muted greens. There's alittle bit of pinkish yellow
(14:58):
mix. in there, and right nearthe center of this image are
some darker lines, they'refaint. But there they are
reasonably clear. It's it's thefact that that the lines are
kind of straight. That makesthem distinct in this otherwise
very, very blurry image. But theprocessed version of this image
is totally different. So itlooks more like a kind of a poor
(15:20):
resolution photo of a forestcanopy taken from above. And so
it's basically it looks likeit's packed, the whole image is
packed with tufts of greenery.
But right in the middle is thisseries of dark, straight lines,
that they're kind of arrangedlike an architect's floor plans.
If you're going to buy a newcondo or something and you and
(15:43):
it hasn't been built yet, youget the architect's plans. And
what you see are all of thewalls on the the exterior and
thinner walls on the interior.
That's what these series ofstraight lines looks like in the
processed image. It'srepresenting a break, these
lines represent a break in theunderground soil structure,
likely the remnants of walls. Sowith this image in hand,
(16:06):
archaeologists can dig withconfidence knowing that there's
something significant underfoot,even if the topography of the
land doesn't show any visiblesigns of that. There's another
technology that's used inarchaeology called LIDAR. LIDAR
is used to very similar effect.
But but with LIDAR, it's theseare images taken from a plane or
(16:28):
this is using planes that flyover a point of interest.
Instead of just taking images,they actually shoot laser pulses
at the ground. And these laserpulses are then used to create
the the information is broughtback. And they can create
digital 3D maps of the terrainbased on what the lasers hit.
(16:49):
And this can work, you can zapright through the forest canopy,
you can zap right through thevegetation. And what you're
taking images of are just solidmaterials that are above the
surface, and also under the soilsurface. So let's say you're
walking through the forestaround Angkor Wat in Cambodia,
(17:11):
and you come across a mound ofearth or like a mound of some
kind of plant materialvegetation, you might notice it,
but you might not right, itmight just you might just
register as part of thelandscape. But when you have
LIDAR imagery, that moundbecomes really clear. And it's
it's also clear, because of thecontext, the context of that
(17:32):
mound, how it relates or isconnected to other underground
shapes and structures, thatbecomes really clear. Again,
because you're taking imagesfrom so much higher up, you're
getting a much broaderunderstanding of the area, these
images are quite different.
Because they're visualizationsof the data, they're not really
photographs. So what they end uplooking like are very bright,
(17:53):
outrageously colorful 3d images,kind of like they look like
they're almost from video games.
So instead of being shown just aperfect bird's eye view, looking
straight down, as you will oftenget in a satellite image. These
images are often presented at aslight angle that highlights the
(18:14):
three dimensionality that isthat you're capable of producing
with this LIDAR. I've got acouple of different images here.
One image is neon yellows, and alittle bit of orange, and
there's some kind of green tintsto it. This is a picture of
Tikal an ancient Mayan city inGuatemala, then this image, this
(18:36):
you know, produced image, itlooks kind of like a tactile
replica that you would find in amuseum, but it doesn't have any
trees, there's no vegetationthat is, you know, weeded out as
this as it were, by the by theLIDAR. And it's as if you're
looking at one of these museumreplicas, through yellow tinted
(18:56):
sunglasses. I've got anotherimage also of Tikal, and this
one looks like it's been takenthrough night vision goggles.
Here, they're the differentheights. So the different
stratas have been digitallyassigned different colors. Most
of the land is neon blue, anunderground structures are very
dark blue. But then platformsand low walls, those are
(19:20):
turquoise, and pyramids areyellow, and even orange, so the
different heights get differentcolors. So if a foundation
that's buried a foot undergroundthat will register in this image
as dark blue, and might have aturquoise outline, if the
fragments of the outside wallsstill remain. And if a structure
(19:41):
is buried under a mound thatmight register as yellow. So
from ground level, this willjust look like a rain forest
with mounds of Earth surroundinga few pyramids or temples that
have been exposed and excavated.
And if you were to take a lookat this using a traditional
satellite, you would probablynot see anything but a forest
canopy surrounding the alreadyexposed pyramids. But by using
(20:03):
infrared satellites and LIDARimagery, the structures beneath
the vegetation, and even in thetop layers of the soil and
Earth, they become clear andvisible. It's amazing.
Christine Malec (20:17):
That is so awesome. That's like ghostly.
Did you see any of roads?
Ancient roadbeds?
JJ Hunt (20:24):
Yeah, I have seen a couple of those there are. When
Oh, when I was in Mexico,recently, a few of these ancient
Mayan cities were connected byhundreds of kilometers of roads,
just, I mean, incredibly longroads. And, and parts of those
(20:46):
roads have been excavated. Andwhat they found was that the
roads are actually the surfaceof the roads were built with
crushed shells, so that theywould glow in the moonlight. So
you could actually travel theseroads at night, but just off of
the lights reflecting off thefull moon, quite amazing. So
you'll get sections of theseroads that have been excavated,
(21:08):
they've been found. But then ifyou use this technology, the
LIDAR technology or otherarchaeological satellite tech,
you can see how they connectfrom, you know, one ancient city
to another, which might be youknow, 100 kilometers away. It's
remarkable.
Christine Malec (21:25):
That is so ghostly and cool. I love the
overlap of archaeology andsatellite technology, that is
just so awesome! When ChrisHadfield was commander of the
International Space Station, hewas tweeting a lot of photos,
and I was following him at thetime. Because he was very good
(21:52):
at telling you what was in thephoto. And before we dive into
this, I just want to say that myprofessional ambition is to
interview Chris Hadfield. So ifanyone knows him, I'm just
putting that out into the worldthat if you can get me past his
people, I really want tointerview Chris Hadfield. But
that's just a side note. As aside. Yeah, just a side note, is
(22:13):
his photo descriptions werequite beautiful. And he's not
describing them for blindpeople. Although I will add that
he did tweet one at one pointand said, I've become aware that
I have several blind andvisually impaired followers. So
I'm going to start sending outmore multisensory material,
(22:34):
which he did, because that's thekind of great guy he is, but
even his own photo descriptionswere compelling to me as a blind
person. And so when JJ and Iwere talking about this episode,
I dug up I had curated for foranother presentation, I had kept
a bunch of texts of his tweets,because just the photo
(22:54):
descriptions themselves were souseful. And so I asked JJ, if he
would have a look back and seeif any of these were, were worth
describing. And we both feltthat that some of them were so
JJ, what did you find?
JJ Hunt (23:09):
Tons of these photos, and you had a good long list
that you sent me, and I reallycould have described any of them
and be quite happy because theyare amazing photos. Often photos
that come from astronauts,they're somewhat scientific, and
they're somewhat artful. But Imean, your Astro hunk, really
did elevate the art form! Hereally did.
Christine Malec (23:30):
Tee hee hee.
JJ Hunt (23:31):
He took some beautiful images. So I've got a couple
here. Let's start with this oneof the Egyptian Israel border.
This is a really interestingimage. So when I was a kid, I
actually thought that the linesthat were drawn on the maps were
real, I thought those weretangible, physical borders.
Christine Malec (23:50):
Me too!
JJ Hunt (23:50):
You too?! I guess it's not because it makes
intellectual sense but becauseof the visual representations of
borders on maps is soubiquitous, I just presumed it
to be reality.
Christine Malec (24:02):
For sure.
JJ Hunt (24:02):
In fact, they're very, very, very rarely, you know
unless the border is a river orsomething like that, borders are
generally invisible, ifespecially from space. But Chris
Hadfield took a picture of thisone this, the border between
Egypt and Israel is actuallyvisible from the International
(24:23):
Space Station. So let's startwith a bit of the geography
because that'll help with thedescription. The image that he
presented features a section ofthe curved shoreline of the
Mediterranean Sea. Some mightremember that description from
our episode of the ship stuck inthe Suez Canal. And the border
between Egypt and Israel runsmore or less north south. Egypt
(24:45):
is on the west side. So thatwould be the left side of North
is is pointing up is generallythe case in depictions in Israel
and the Gaza Strip there on theEast or the right side. So in in
commander Hatfields photo, thecurve shoreline is at the top of
the image. So it forms kind oflike a bowl of dark blue water.
(25:06):
And the shoreline itself isquite clear. And even so it's
not it's not super rough, it'snot very nobly it's a very clear
shoreline. And right in thecenter is where the border line
begins. In this orientation, itcuts down and to the left. So
it's kind of aiming for likeseven o'clock on a clock face.
(25:28):
Now there is an actual fencealong the border. But that fence
is in no way visible from thespace station, it's just far too
narrow to be visible from space,the border is clear, because of
the different landscape andhuman activity on either side,
that's what makes the line looklike a line because of what's
(25:49):
going on on either side. So atthe water's edge, on the
Egyptian side, is a patchwork ofrectangular green and brown farm
fields. It looks like they weremade with like tiny flicks of a
very fine brush, right, thislittle patchwork of, you know,
farm fields. And then on theeast side, right along the
water, that's the Gaza side isthere's the Gaza side of the
(26:13):
city of Rafah. This is a splitcity, but a lot of it is on the
the Gaza side. And from thedistance, it looks like a steel
blue cloud like this color ofsteel blue. And that's because
of the amount of concreteconstruction in the city. So on
one side, you have farmer'sfields. On the other side, you
(26:34):
have this concrete blue color,and then you move further
inland, so in the image a littlebit down. And then there are
farm fields on both the Egyptianand Israeli sides of the border.
But in Egypt, these fields areover grazed, and they're not
very well irrigated. So theyactually look really quite
Sandy. They're very, they'requite sandy brown. But in
(26:55):
Israel, these fields are moreirrigated, and so therefore,
they are more green. So as youmove inland, you get Egypt with
brownfields and Israel withgreen and so that creates the
line the separation if you morefurther inland soak again
further toward the down towardthe bottom of the image. The
(27:16):
border line continues, becauseon the Egyptian side, the
grazing of livestock and thetrampling by humans has exposed
the light colored sand, which iskind of like the color of milky
tea. But the land is moreundisturbed on the Israeli side.
So the darker soil, that's a topthe sand dunes is still intact.
(27:38):
So they've got this defacto linein the sand because there's a
bit of texture that looks almostlike stippled, you know, light
gray paint on top of the Milkytea on one side. And on the
other side, it's just this milkytea color. All of that is, is is
packed in to one image takenfrom the space station.
Christine Malec (28:00):
Yeah, he liked to look at lands the interaction
between landscape and humanhuman activity. What other ones
did you find?
JJ Hunt (28:10):
There's another one tha 's it's quite striking. Again,
his idea of human activity andlandscape, there's a photo that
he dubbed the polka dot desert.
o here is a sandy desert againthe color of milky tea. And the
e are a few discernibleidges a little bit of texture t
the desert. So there's likea C shaped Ridge where the sa
d on the inside of the Seas a lttle bit darker. The Ridge it
(28:30):
elf has like a crumb like txture. And at the upper left,
here are some darker spotsit almost looks speckled. I'
not actually sure what that isBut the really notable feat
re in this photograph ithe series of perfect blue
circles, dotting the desert.
nd in his caption, Commander Hafield identifies these as Cen
(28:53):
erpoint irrigation farms. So Ceterpoint irrigation farms are fa
m fields that are irrigated bysprinkler systems that move in
a circular pattern around a cena central point. So the resul
is perfectly round fields and isatellite images of lush farm
ng land. So you'll see this acrss the United States and i
(29:15):
Canada. In those lush farming aeas, satellite images are look
ike grids filled with circles ishades of green. Outside of th
circles, you're going to hve paler green and inside the ci
cles, it's going to be darkerreen, because that's what's
getting the irrigation. Bt in this image, it's really
(29:36):
ntriguing because those the cicles are kind of blue. I'm no
sure why they're blue if it'sjust the amount of water that's
being used, but they're surrunded by sandy desert. So t
e circles are perfect circes surrounded by desert and t
ey're in really quite a quiry configuration. It's almost
ike someone was making a heat shape with Braille dots
(29:57):
So they made the bumps at theTop using these dots, and th
n they started going down te right side and then they go
bored and stopped. That's the sape of these dots. And some of
he blues are quite dark and opaue. But some of them are rea
ly quite faint and they're, the're transparent almost so yo
(30:18):
can see the sand quality beneth them. Really quite striki
g. Very, very artful, beauiful image.
Christine Malec (30:26):
And you would never see this perspective
except from above. I could dothis all day. Okay, what else
have you got?
JJ Hunt (30:33):
Okay, I got one more.
This is the Australian outbackOkay, so this image I ho
estly I hardly know what I'm loking at here, The landsca
e fills the frame so there arno clear points of referenc
. There's nothing that's rally discernible. I, I genuine
y don't even know what I'm looing at here. So I'm just going t
describe it as a piece of art.
(30:54):
In his description Hadfield sas Jackson Pollock would have be
n would have been further inpired by seeing the outback fr
m orbit. And it's true. This loks like a like a Jackson Po
lock painting with streaks of coors and dots on a canvas. It's r
ally wild. So what we have ian image in terracotta
(31:15):
reds, and kind of cloudy ocen blues. And it resembles
a close up of a bowling ball,elieve it or not. It looks like
marble cave wall with drippng mineral streaks. If this was
vertical image, I would descrbe the terracotta color as almo
t dripping down into the patces of blue. And I genuinely d
(31:39):
n't really know what it I can'teven imagine what this looks lik
from ground level. It is suh an amazing, dripping meld
ng of colors and the blues wih the cloudy patches and the s
reaking. It's really mesmrizing purely as a piece of art
(32:00):
It's beautiful. It's a lovelyimage.
Christine Malec (32:06):
If we have any Australian listeners who have
insights about what that'sabout, please, please email us
or let us know somehow. We lovemaking this podcast. If you love
hearing it, perhaps you'llconsider supporting its creation
and development by becoming apatron. We've set up a Patreon
page to help cover the costs ofputting the show together. You
(32:27):
can contribute as a listener oras a sponsor to help ensure that
accessible and entertainingjournalism continues to reach
our community. Visit patreon.comslash talk description to me
that's pa t ar e o n.com slashtalk description to me have
feedback or suggestions of whatyou'd like to hear about here's
(32:48):
how to get in touch with us. Ouremail address is talk descriptio
to me@gmail.com. Our Faceboopage is called talk descriptio
to me. Our website is tak description to me.com and y
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