June 5, 2021 • 34 mins
Children’s shoes. Tiny, colourful and empty. In this difficult but necessary episode, we discuss memorials found across Canada that honour the #215Children whose remains were recently discovered on the site of a former Residential School in British Columbia. To recognize the past and current trauma felt by Indigenous communities across Canada, this episode includes descriptions of artworks by Indigenous artists that give expression to Indigenous experiences.
Counselling support for Residential School survivors is available at 1-800-721-0066. The Indian Residential School Survivors Society can be also reached 24 hours a day through their Crisis Line: 1-866-925-4419.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
JJ Hunt (00:04):
Talk description to me with Christine Malec and JJ
Hunt.
Christine Malec (00:29):
Hi, I'm Christine Malec.
JJ Hunt (00:30):
And I'm JJ Hunt. This is talk description to Me where
the visuals of current eventsand the world around us get
hashtag in description richconversations.
Christine Malec (00:47):
If you haven't looked at the show notes for
today's episode, we want to letyou know this is going to be a
tough one. We're going to betalking about discovery of a
mass grave. There's no other wayto make that not horrible. That
was discovered in Canada thispast week. And we feel that for
(01:13):
listeners who are not Canadian,or who maybe don't know that,
it's important to set somecontext for what we're going to
be talking about today, becauseour conversation is going to
move towards art and memorials.
But it's really important tounderstand where where this
conversation is coming from. Andwe want to start by if for any
indigenous listeners, we haveindigenous native listeners, we
(01:38):
just want to say we're so sorryto have to make you think about
all of this again and again. Andit's about Canada coming to
terms with a very, very darkhistory that we have relative to
indigenous people. So the thehistory here is that in the late
1800s, it was decided that theway to deal with the people who
(02:02):
were here before Europeansarrived was to turn them into
white people with very with noregard for compassion, or, or
culture. And the means that wasseen as the effective way to do
this was to take indigenouschildren by fours from their
(02:23):
families, their parents, theircommunities, and warehouse them
in institutional schools toteach them to be white people.
They were punished for speakingtheir language, their culture
was suppressed. Horrible,horrible, the worst imaginable
kinds of abuses happened inthese places. And between 2007
(02:45):
and 2015, Canada had a Truth andReconciliation Commission in
which indigenous people wereinvited to speak publicly to
just tell the truth, just saywhat happened. And so that led
to lots of information, lots ofpeople having the chance to
(03:11):
talk. And many recommendationswere made from that. It's
believed that or approximately150,000, indigenous Inuit and
maytee children were sent tothose schools. estimates are
that 4000 of those children diedthere, which would make it one
(03:32):
in 50. And that's probablywildly underestimated. And so
what has happened in the pastweek is that by using ground
penetrating radar, a mass gravewas discovered in Kamloops BC,
near their location of a formerschool residential school and
(03:54):
their remains of 215 childrenor, or discovered to be to be
there. And this is a very, verydifficult obviously goes without
saying and for Canada, this iswe knew the dark, the dark
(04:15):
history was there. And we didn'tlisten hard enough. And we
didn't talk loudly enough aboutit. And we just didn't pay
attention in the ways that weshould. And now this discovery
is believed to be certainly theunfortunately the first of many,
we know there will be more. Andso JJ and I want to take our
(04:39):
opportunity to talk about thevery quick responses that have
happened in terms of memorials,and one of the main ways that
memorials have been showing upis in children's shoes. JJ Is
there anything you want to addto the current texts that I've
(04:59):
made there.
JJ Hunt (05:02):
Ah Chris, I think you've done a lovely job
outlining where we're comingfrom here. I think the only
other thing I'd add, obviouslythis is going to be a very
difficult episode. And weunderstand that not everyone's
going to feel up to this rightnow. But there are others I know
(05:23):
who are feeling a duty to notturn away. And that's something
that the two of us have spoken alot about. So it's in the spirit
of refusing to ignore andrefusing to turn away that we're
putting together this episode.
Christine Malec (05:38):
I wanted to add to that, I do the editing for
our episodes, and I do my bestto come up with a smooth job but
this probably won't be a smoothsounding episode because we know
that we're going to need to takebreaks. JJ and I both will need
time in between. So if thingssound choppy in the end, it will
(05:58):
be because they are choppybecause we needed we needed a
breather from from this mostpainful material which we must
not look away from. JJ you sentout a tweet that I thought was
very powerful, respectful andimportant. That was the first
that I knew about the memorialsthat were happening and that was
(06:20):
215 pairs of shoes on the stepsof the Vancouver Art Gallery.
JJ Hunt (06:27):
So when news began to spread about these remains being
found in in Kamloops, one of thefirst public expressions of that
grief was was placed outside theVancouver BC Art Gallery. So the
gallery itself is a largeneoclassical building in
downtown Vancouver. There arevery wide steps out the front,
(06:49):
no railings or anything the bigwide steps leading up to a
columned portico that's toppedwith a triangular pediment very
classic neoclassical building.
There's a vast open courtyard infront of the building of
interlocking pale grey pavingbricks, and the gray granite
steps are flanked by statues oflions on plants. And to
(07:10):
memorialize the 215 children,most of whom were likely from
the Secwpemc nation, advocatesbegan placing children's shoes
on the front steps of thegallery. So row after row 215
pairs of little shoes. There arelots of photos of this online
(07:35):
most of the news stories thathave been discussing what's been
happening, the discovery and soforth. They're not showing
images of any remains, they'renot showing, they maybe have a
few pictures of historicalphotos of what the residential
school looked like. But mostfeature an image of these shoes,
(07:59):
brightly colored running shoes,some winter boots, some little
kids sandals, row after row onthe front steps of the gallery,
there are a few single flowers,like red roses, and and there's
a small collection of notes anddolls and wrapped bouquets
(08:20):
that's at the foot of thestairs. But that's really a
quite a small collection, mostof the images that I've seen,
are of the very simple orderlyrows of little shoes.
Christine Malec (08:34):
When I first heard about that, I was not
expecting that. I didn't knowwhat to expect. And my mind sort
of went, jolted. Shoes? But themore I sat with it, the more
sense it made, and the morepoignant and perfect it seemed
the shoes are empty, they'reempty.
JJ Hunt (08:53):
They're empty, and, frankly, the size of the shoes.
Christine Malec (08:58):
Yeah.
JJ Hunt (08:58):
These are small shoes.
The size of them, and kids shoestend to be a little bit more
colorful, maybe there are littledecals or emblems on them from
Kids TV shows and whatnot.
Christine Malec (09:13):
Whimsical and playful like kids should be.
JJ Hunt (09:16):
Exactly. So, they are, it is extremely poignant and it
has caught on as a way forpeople to acknowledge this
horror and all across thecountry now in all kinds of
communities. People are usingthis as a way to not necessarily
(09:41):
gather but to to take theirmoment and and pay their
respects. So in a quick onlinesearch, I found that there are
similar memorials inCharlottetown PEI, Lethbridge
Alberta, Thompson Manitoba,really all across the country.
People are placing kids shoes onthe steps of government
(10:03):
buildings provincial buildings,city buildings. This was done at
the legislative building inToronto after some struggle with
the security there. There arepeople placing shoes on the
steps of schools, because manyschools are still closed under
lockdowns parents and kids havebeen going to the schools and
(10:26):
and then I'm putting shoes onthe steps that this is happening
at our local school just downthe block. And I've seen photos
of shoes hanging from hangingfrom chain link fences that
surrounds school yards. inHamilton, Ontario there's a
growing Memorial with shoesarranged in concentric circles
(10:48):
separated by small evergreenboughs. And right in the center
of that Memorial. There's a pairof handmade tan leather
moccasins sitting at the center.
Christine Malec (11:00):
I've heard of... in people's windows
anywhere, I think.
JJ Hunt (11:08):
They're all over.
Christine Malec (11:09):
Yeah.
JJ Hunt (11:09):
In Kahnawake there's a collection of shoes and colorful
rubber boots that blanket areally wide sidewalk the whole
sidewalk is covered with themand there are a few toys and
stuffed animals in there. Littlelittle riding toys that you know
kids push down the sidewalk andthere are some orange shirts
(11:30):
that are hanging on a fencebehind the shoes. We're going to
talk more about those shootthose shirts in a moment. And on
the grounds of the formerresidential school the actual
school in Kamloops. volunteershave now placed two long rows of
shoes on a grassy hillside. Andeach pair of shoes is separated
(11:52):
by a small little solar gardenlight. And the shoes are all
tied with orange laces. And thevolunteers they all were orange
shirts. So for those who aren'taware, orange shirts have been
worn by school kids all acrossthe country in Canada every year
on September 30. Since about2013, it's September 30 is
(12:14):
orange shirt day. There are anumber of different elements to
how this this came to be. Butessentially, September is the
time of year when indigenouschildren were taken from their
homes and forced intoresidential schools. So orange
shirt Day is a visual reminderof that. And from there, the
(12:38):
color orange has become part ofmany residential school
memorials and publicconversations. Folks who have
changed their profile pictures,for example, on Facebook or
Twitter to some Memorialgenerally those have an orange
border, the orange shirts, theorange laces, the orange has
(12:58):
become a visual reminder of ofthe suffering in the residential
school system.
Christine Malec (13:05):
And it's important to note this is not
remote history. I think thatschool in Kamloops closed in
1969.
JJ Hunt (13:14):
Yeah, the last residential school closed, think
it was 1996. I mean, this is notancient history, the origins go
back to the late 1800s, butthere's 100 year history of
these schools this this. This isvery much in our lifetime.
Christine Malec (13:37):
There have been other indigenous artists who
have done work from their owncommunities. Can we talk a
little bit about that?
JJ Hunt (13:49):
Yeah, let's talk a bit about the REDress project. So
the REDress and that spelledcapital R E D, and then
lowercase r e s s, so redress,red dress. This is a project, an
ongoing series of public artinstallations by a woman named
Jamie black that dates back to2010. Jimmy black is a Metis
(14:14):
woman of Anishnaabe Finnishdescent based in Manitoba, and
she has a collection of hundredsof red dresses, many donated to
her. And what what, what shedoes is she displays them in
empty so she puts them onhanger. She puts these dresses
on hangers and displays themempty in public places to bring
(14:37):
attention to missing andmurdered Indigenous women and
girls, all across Canada in theUS. So there's a permanent
exhibit of this at the CanadianMuseum of human rights. And it's
been presented numerous times byother institutions on both sides
of the border. I don't think theexhibit was up at the Canadian
(14:58):
Museum of human rights when Iwas there. So I'm going to
describe some of the stillimages that I've seen of her
installations. So the firstimage is of an indoor gallery
space. The gallery has whitewalls and there's a row of white
support pillars inside is apolished wooden floor. And there
(15:19):
are six vibrant cherry reddresses hanging on black
hangers, and they're suspendedin midair. Just a few feet off
of the ground. Presumably, thehangers are are supported by
unseen wires. And underneatheach dress is what appears to be
(15:39):
a disc of gathered red fabric.
And the dresses are long, buteach one is unique. So one has
long sleeves and a fitted waistand has long hanging pleats in
the dress. Another one isstrapless and has a low square
neckline. They all hang flat ontheir hangers like clothes in a
(16:03):
closet, but in thispresentation, all of them are
facing us in this otherwiseempty room. Another image that I
found of a differentinstallation is of four red
dresses, hanging from hangersthat are hooked over the
branches of of short, leafytrees with white bark. The trees
(16:23):
are all in a row growing on agrassy lawn, the closest tree is
at our left and the row of treesrecedes into the distance kind
of exiting the image on ourright, the dress that hangs from
the closest trees so thetherefore the largest dress is
the dress that appears largestis is blowing in the breeze and
(16:45):
it's in the shadow of the leafytree above. The next dress along
the row is a mini dress and it'sgot long flared sleeves and the
dress appears to glow in thesunlight. It's it's got the sun
shining straight directly on itand the dress appears to glow.
And then beyond that is a reddress with short sleeves and a
(17:09):
short pleated mini skirt. Andthat hangs in the tree beyond
that. Another image features avelvety sleeveless evening gown
with a plunging neckline on ablack hanger and it's hanging
from the branch of a dryleafless tree, the dress and the
(17:29):
knotted tree this gnarly knottedtree they're in focus. While in
the background there are otherleafless trees that are quite
blurry and out of focus. There'sa second red dress in this
image. It's also blurry, ithangs in the background to our
left. And there's right there'ssome light rain that's falling
in this trade park or this wood.
(17:54):
And then one last image featuresa strapless red dress with a
ruffled offset ham that appearsto float beside a bear tree in a
snowstorm in the hem of thisdress. This kind of a ruffled
offset ham makes me think thatthis would be a really great
dress for dancing. There are nohangers or wires, that that are
(18:20):
readily apparent in this image.
It's just this it looks likejust this dress floating beside
the tree. And there's snowcovering the branches of the
tree and it coats the ground andthe snow covers all the
evergreen trees in thebackground.
Christine Malec (18:37):
Is there enough of a stylized look to the
displays that if you saw a reddress hanging somewhere
incongruously in a public spacethat your mind would go there?
That that's what it is?
JJ Hunt (18:52):
Yeah, absolutely. The dresses, like I said, they're
they're all different. But thecolor of the red is always very
similar. So these are allvibrant, close to a cherry red
like depending on the materialthat color changes a little bit
but the color is verydistinctive. The the way that
they're always hung on hangersand by hanging these dresses on
(19:18):
hangers. They are they maintaina shape they maintain a
silhouette that is clearlyrepresentative of a human form.
If you took these dresses andhung them on a hook, for
example, they might bunch upright where they would just look
like fabric but these are notthat they're the way they are
hung. The way they face us theway they move in the breeze when
(19:44):
they're outside and they andthey play off of the elements
the wind, the rain, the snow,the dresses are a presence. And
because of that, seeing thesered dresses in these spaces is
there Clearly part of a greaterproject visually there's no
there's no question for methey're part of this greater
(20:06):
project.
Christine Malec (20:07):
One other elements we were going to talk
about is a painting by KentMonkman, which returns to the
theme of of residential schools.
And this is very difficult. JJ.
Can you describe it for us?
JJ Hunt (20:24):
Yeah, so Kent Monkman is a Cree visual artist, a
member of the Fisher river CreeNation, currently working out of
Toronto. Monkman's work is verywell known. It's quite often
provocative, explores themes ofcolonization, sexuality,
resilience. He doesinstallations and video art. He
(20:49):
sometimes uses his two spiritedgender fluid alter ego, Miss
Chief Eagle Testicle, who alsoappears in his painting. So
sometimes he takes on thepersona sometimes he includes
this persona in his paintings,really wide variety of work from
Kent Monkman. Today, I thoughtwe'd break down the one
(21:11):
particular painting. He's gotlots of paintings that deal with
colonization. But there's theone in particular that deals
with residential schools that alot of people might have
encountered recently if you'refollowing the hashtag on Twitter
or Facebook 215 children. Inrecent days, this image of this
(21:31):
painting has has come up a lot.
I thought we could break downsome of his style, which is
really important in this image,and then describe that painting
in detail. Kent Monkman uses akind of old master style of
painting for some of his work,the old master style of
painting. These are paintingswhere the classical training of
the artist is quite evident.
(21:55):
European paintings circa 1800 -think about dramatic scenes with
lots of subjects, lots offigures in the painting, that
are engaged in some sort ofstrife or a moment of intrigue.
These images are heavy withallegory, they're thick with
symbolism. The paintings featuresubjects in rich clothing and
(22:19):
draped fabric rendered with lotsof detail, often rich, dark
colors, there's dramaticlighting with heavy shadows and
the shadows, obscure some partsof the action and draw attention
to the others. And they tend tobe full of light skinned
subjects, white subjects withvery animated dramatic
(22:40):
expressions. And some of theseold master artists, some of
these painters who painted inthis style were sent to the
Americas when the Americas wasthe "New world" to paint lavish
sweeping landscapes to showcasethis New World and, and those
landscape paintings are oftenjust extraordinarily grand,
(23:03):
right, very enticing. They'represented, these landscapes are
presented as near empty, placesthat are free of any human
activity canyons and mountainranges, waterfalls, these
incredible vistas, but very fewinhabitants of the land were
included in these paintings.
This was to promote the notionthat this was an empty
(23:24):
landscape, a glorious emptylandscape, just waiting for
colonization. And whenindigenous people were painted,
it was often in formal portraitsfor use in textbooks and as
intellectual studies. So thisstyle of painting is very well
established. So well establishedthat any sighted Canadian or
(23:48):
American Museum goer would knowit very well, because this style
is part of our understanding ofour nation's history. There were
no photographs taken during thistime. So our understanding of
what was happening in ourgrowing countries comes from
these paintings. And whatMonkman does in some of his work
(24:13):
is he uses this classicalrealism aesthetic to present his
own version of colonization,which is very much from an
indigenous perspective. So heheavily references and
reconfigures this style, a stylethat we're not only very
familiar with, but we've beentold is fine art at its finest.
It's painted by the old masters,right? So he uses this style to
(24:37):
tell him to tell a differentside of this story. And as we've
said, one of the subjects heexplores is the residential
school system. And quitespecifically, the very moment
when children were rounded upand taken from their families.
So There aren't photographs ofthese moments that those are not
(25:01):
part of the of our of ourrecord. So paintings like the
scream, Kent Monkman, 2017painting. This is one of the
ways we can, we can connect withthat moment. So I'm going to
take a deep breath and describethe 2017 painting The Scream.
(25:27):
The Scream is a large scale oilpainting seven feet tall, 10 and
a half feet wide, and it depictsa group of seven RCMP officers,
to Catholic priests to nuns. Andall of those figures are white,
and they are pulling childrenaway from three women and all of
(25:48):
the women and all of thosechildren have medium skin tones.
The RCMP officers they'redressed in their famous Mountie
dress uniforms. The red jacketswith brass buttons that are
belted at the waist. Blackriding pants with yellow stripes
down the outside of the leg.
brown leather boots knee highboots and wide brimmed Stetson
hats, the priests, they aredressed in ankle length, black
(26:14):
cassocks with white collars.
These robes are belted at thewaist with rope and each one of
the priests has a hanging crosspendant. Both of them are very
pale. Again at the risk ofeditorializing I would say that
(26:35):
their skin tone has a grayalmost sickly quality to it,
very pale. The nuns are wearingfull black habits, long tunics,
white wimple headscarves thatdrape over the shoulders, and
black veils that go down theback. The women are all wearing
(26:56):
simple knee length dresses in asingle color. So one of the
women is wearing a blue dressanother a burgundy dress the
third a purple dress. And thekids are also dressed in very
simple clothes in plain colors,so no patterns. No adornments on
any of these figures.
(27:17):
Much of the action in thispainting takes place in the
foreground and in the middleground. And behind the action at
our left is a house. It's a bitof a ramshackle house by which I
don't mean it's dirty ordilapidated. But it seems to be
cobbled together. So the sidingfor example is in several
(27:40):
different pastel shades. So itkind of looks like there are
several small houses that havebeen stuck together. And then on
the roof there are patches oftwo different kinds of shingles.
So there are brick orange, andgray shingles in various
patches. There are severalgroupings of people in the
painting. So several, almostdistinct vignettes, which is
(28:01):
very much in keeping with an oldmasters classic. At the front
and center of the painting isthe woman in the blue dress. And
she is being held back by twoMounties who have to they're
gritting their teeth. Andthey're wincing with the effort
of holding back this woman in ablue dress. She's leaning
(28:23):
forward with her armsoutstretched, reaching for a
toddler who is in the arms of apriest and she's leaning so far
forward, that she would veryclearly drop if the Mounties let
go. She's pitched so far forwardand the Mounties are standing
behind her pulling her back. Oneof the Mounties holds her wrist
(28:45):
and her torso, and another pullsthe back of her dress and grabs
her long dark hair. And she'sscreaming, her mouth is open,
her teeth are bared. Her lefthand is spread wide open so that
the skin between her fingers istaught. And her right hand is
(29:06):
held with her fingers bent kindof like a claw. And the toddler
that she's reaching for is justout of reach held on the priests
hip. The toddler is wearing acloth diaper and tan moccasins
and has a decidedly neutralexpression on the face. The
(29:28):
toddler is facing us directlywith this neutral expression but
their eyes are slightly turnedaway just a little bit so we're
not quite making eye contactwith this child, even though
they're facing us directly. Thetoddlers wearing a purple
sweatshirt, which is gathered upunder the pale or like gathered
(29:50):
up under the pale arm of thepriest and the priest whose is
holding this toddler is verypale, has red hair, a bushy red
beard and, and he's turned awayfrom both the toddler and the
screaming woman. So he's facingthe ground with this toddler
held on his back hip. And thereare several other scenes like
(30:15):
that in this work, I couldeasily go into that kind of
detail with with each littlevignette. So on our left, the
woman in the burgundy dresscradles a child that's wearing
fur trimmed boots, and there's apale skinned priest is grabbing
the child by the ankle and armpulling the child away. Behind
(30:35):
them, the woman in the purpledress kneels on the ground
clutching a child. The child isonly wearing white underwear,
and behind her and this child,there's a nun and a Mountie
leaning in. They're bothreaching for the child, on one
on each side of the woman. Andit took me a while to spot it,
but in this little vignette,there's a man lying face down in
(30:58):
the grass with his eyes closed.
He has long dark hair in abraid. And he's wearing jeans
and a plaid shirt. He's the onlyman in this painting that isn't
a Mountie or a priest. And he'sthe only person in the painting
depicted wearing patternedclothing. This plaid shirt.
Behind the screaming woman inthe blue dress there's a nun and
(31:22):
a Mountie, each holding a child.
They're just a few feet apartand the two children are
reaching for each other. Andtheir their hands are barely
touching. And our bottom rightcorner. There's a long haired
child in a gray t shirt who'srunning out of the frame kind of
(31:45):
toward us to the right. Andthere's a Mountie chasing him
with arms extended preparing toscoop him up. Behind them
there's a stoic Mountie, whostands with a rifle at the
ready, facing the rest of theaction. And on a small porch at
the house there's a Mountiestanding with one hand on his
(32:09):
hip, pointing toward the distantright. And they, at the distant
right, there are three olderkids, maybe young teenagers, and
they're sprinting away from ustoward a green field and a tree
line in the background. Thereare birds in the sky, three
birds in the sky, and one birdon the rooftop. Two of the birds
(32:31):
appear to be hawks, I'mguessing. Both of those birds
are in flight. And there are twocrows, maybe ravens black birds.
One is on the roof of the house.
And the other is swooping in,beak open, diving straight for
one of the Mounties.
Christine Malec (32:50):
[Exhale] This is not about us. But that said I
want to publicly thank JJ forbeing able to do this and to do
the research and to say thewords out loud because it's so
important. You're a great humanbeing and thank you for doing
(33:12):
that. For our listeners. We wantto leave you with some resources
because this is hard stuff andparticularly for indigenous
listeners, JJ, maybe you can rundown some of the contact info
for some some help. Yeah.
JJ Hunt (33:30):
So if you feel like you need someone to talk to someone
you know need someone to talkto. You can call the residential
school survivors society forcounseling support. You can
reach them at 1-800-721-0066 andCanada does have a national 24
(33:52):
seven crisis line and that canbe reached at 1-866-925-4419
Talk description to me with Christine Malec and JJ
Hunt.
Christine Malec (00:29):
Hi, I'm Christine Malec.
JJ Hunt (00:30):
And I'm JJ Hunt. This is talk description to Me where
the visuals of current eventsand the world around us get
hashtag in description richconversations.
Christine Malec (00:47):
If you haven't looked at the show notes for
today's episode, we want to letyou know this is going to be a
tough one. We're going to betalking about discovery of a
mass grave. There's no other wayto make that not horrible. That
was discovered in Canada thispast week. And we feel that for
(01:13):
listeners who are not Canadian,or who maybe don't know that,
it's important to set somecontext for what we're going to
be talking about today, becauseour conversation is going to
move towards art and memorials.
But it's really important tounderstand where where this
conversation is coming from. Andwe want to start by if for any
indigenous listeners, we haveindigenous native listeners, we
(01:38):
just want to say we're so sorryto have to make you think about
all of this again and again. Andit's about Canada coming to
terms with a very, very darkhistory that we have relative to
indigenous people. So the thehistory here is that in the late
1800s, it was decided that theway to deal with the people who
(02:02):
were here before Europeansarrived was to turn them into
white people with very with noregard for compassion, or, or
culture. And the means that wasseen as the effective way to do
this was to take indigenouschildren by fours from their
(02:23):
families, their parents, theircommunities, and warehouse them
in institutional schools toteach them to be white people.
They were punished for speakingtheir language, their culture
was suppressed. Horrible,horrible, the worst imaginable
kinds of abuses happened inthese places. And between 2007
(02:45):
and 2015, Canada had a Truth andReconciliation Commission in
which indigenous people wereinvited to speak publicly to
just tell the truth, just saywhat happened. And so that led
to lots of information, lots ofpeople having the chance to
(03:11):
talk. And many recommendationswere made from that. It's
believed that or approximately150,000, indigenous Inuit and
maytee children were sent tothose schools. estimates are
that 4000 of those children diedthere, which would make it one
(03:32):
in 50. And that's probablywildly underestimated. And so
what has happened in the pastweek is that by using ground
penetrating radar, a mass gravewas discovered in Kamloops BC,
near their location of a formerschool residential school and
(03:54):
their remains of 215 childrenor, or discovered to be to be
there. And this is a very, verydifficult obviously goes without
saying and for Canada, this iswe knew the dark, the dark
(04:15):
history was there. And we didn'tlisten hard enough. And we
didn't talk loudly enough aboutit. And we just didn't pay
attention in the ways that weshould. And now this discovery
is believed to be certainly theunfortunately the first of many,
we know there will be more. Andso JJ and I want to take our
(04:39):
opportunity to talk about thevery quick responses that have
happened in terms of memorials,and one of the main ways that
memorials have been showing upis in children's shoes. JJ Is
there anything you want to addto the current texts that I've
(04:59):
made there.
JJ Hunt (05:02):
Ah Chris, I think you've done a lovely job
outlining where we're comingfrom here. I think the only
other thing I'd add, obviouslythis is going to be a very
difficult episode. And weunderstand that not everyone's
going to feel up to this rightnow. But there are others I know
(05:23):
who are feeling a duty to notturn away. And that's something
that the two of us have spoken alot about. So it's in the spirit
of refusing to ignore andrefusing to turn away that we're
putting together this episode.
Christine Malec (05:38):
I wanted to add to that, I do the editing for
our episodes, and I do my bestto come up with a smooth job but
this probably won't be a smoothsounding episode because we know
that we're going to need to takebreaks. JJ and I both will need
time in between. So if thingssound choppy in the end, it will
(05:58):
be because they are choppybecause we needed we needed a
breather from from this mostpainful material which we must
not look away from. JJ you sentout a tweet that I thought was
very powerful, respectful andimportant. That was the first
that I knew about the memorialsthat were happening and that was
(06:20):
215 pairs of shoes on the stepsof the Vancouver Art Gallery.
JJ Hunt (06:27):
So when news began to spread about these remains being
found in in Kamloops, one of thefirst public expressions of that
grief was was placed outside theVancouver BC Art Gallery. So the
gallery itself is a largeneoclassical building in
downtown Vancouver. There arevery wide steps out the front,
(06:49):
no railings or anything the bigwide steps leading up to a
columned portico that's toppedwith a triangular pediment very
classic neoclassical building.
There's a vast open courtyard infront of the building of
interlocking pale grey pavingbricks, and the gray granite
steps are flanked by statues oflions on plants. And to
(07:10):
memorialize the 215 children,most of whom were likely from
the Secwpemc nation, advocatesbegan placing children's shoes
on the front steps of thegallery. So row after row 215
pairs of little shoes. There arelots of photos of this online
(07:35):
most of the news stories thathave been discussing what's been
happening, the discovery and soforth. They're not showing
images of any remains, they'renot showing, they maybe have a
few pictures of historicalphotos of what the residential
school looked like. But mostfeature an image of these shoes,
(07:59):
brightly colored running shoes,some winter boots, some little
kids sandals, row after row onthe front steps of the gallery,
there are a few single flowers,like red roses, and and there's
a small collection of notes anddolls and wrapped bouquets
(08:20):
that's at the foot of thestairs. But that's really a
quite a small collection, mostof the images that I've seen,
are of the very simple orderlyrows of little shoes.
Christine Malec (08:34):
When I first heard about that, I was not
expecting that. I didn't knowwhat to expect. And my mind sort
of went, jolted. Shoes? But themore I sat with it, the more
sense it made, and the morepoignant and perfect it seemed
the shoes are empty, they'reempty.
JJ Hunt (08:53):
They're empty, and, frankly, the size of the shoes.
Christine Malec (08:58):
Yeah.
JJ Hunt (08:58):
These are small shoes.
The size of them, and kids shoestend to be a little bit more
colorful, maybe there are littledecals or emblems on them from
Kids TV shows and whatnot.
Christine Malec (09:13):
Whimsical and playful like kids should be.
JJ Hunt (09:16):
Exactly. So, they are, it is extremely poignant and it
has caught on as a way forpeople to acknowledge this
horror and all across thecountry now in all kinds of
communities. People are usingthis as a way to not necessarily
(09:41):
gather but to to take theirmoment and and pay their
respects. So in a quick onlinesearch, I found that there are
similar memorials inCharlottetown PEI, Lethbridge
Alberta, Thompson Manitoba,really all across the country.
People are placing kids shoes onthe steps of government
(10:03):
buildings provincial buildings,city buildings. This was done at
the legislative building inToronto after some struggle with
the security there. There arepeople placing shoes on the
steps of schools, because manyschools are still closed under
lockdowns parents and kids havebeen going to the schools and
(10:26):
and then I'm putting shoes onthe steps that this is happening
at our local school just downthe block. And I've seen photos
of shoes hanging from hangingfrom chain link fences that
surrounds school yards. inHamilton, Ontario there's a
growing Memorial with shoesarranged in concentric circles
(10:48):
separated by small evergreenboughs. And right in the center
of that Memorial. There's a pairof handmade tan leather
moccasins sitting at the center.
Christine Malec (11:00):
I've heard of... in people's windows
anywhere, I think.
JJ Hunt (11:08):
They're all over.
Christine Malec (11:09):
Yeah.
JJ Hunt (11:09):
In Kahnawake there's a collection of shoes and colorful
rubber boots that blanket areally wide sidewalk the whole
sidewalk is covered with themand there are a few toys and
stuffed animals in there. Littlelittle riding toys that you know
kids push down the sidewalk andthere are some orange shirts
(11:30):
that are hanging on a fencebehind the shoes. We're going to
talk more about those shootthose shirts in a moment. And on
the grounds of the formerresidential school the actual
school in Kamloops. volunteershave now placed two long rows of
shoes on a grassy hillside. Andeach pair of shoes is separated
(11:52):
by a small little solar gardenlight. And the shoes are all
tied with orange laces. And thevolunteers they all were orange
shirts. So for those who aren'taware, orange shirts have been
worn by school kids all acrossthe country in Canada every year
on September 30. Since about2013, it's September 30 is
(12:14):
orange shirt day. There are anumber of different elements to
how this this came to be. Butessentially, September is the
time of year when indigenouschildren were taken from their
homes and forced intoresidential schools. So orange
shirt Day is a visual reminderof that. And from there, the
(12:38):
color orange has become part ofmany residential school
memorials and publicconversations. Folks who have
changed their profile pictures,for example, on Facebook or
Twitter to some Memorialgenerally those have an orange
border, the orange shirts, theorange laces, the orange has
(12:58):
become a visual reminder of ofthe suffering in the residential
school system.
Christine Malec (13:05):
And it's important to note this is not
remote history. I think thatschool in Kamloops closed in
1969.
JJ Hunt (13:14):
Yeah, the last residential school closed, think
it was 1996. I mean, this is notancient history, the origins go
back to the late 1800s, butthere's 100 year history of
these schools this this. This isvery much in our lifetime.
Christine Malec (13:37):
There have been other indigenous artists who
have done work from their owncommunities. Can we talk a
little bit about that?
JJ Hunt (13:49):
Yeah, let's talk a bit about the REDress project. So
the REDress and that spelledcapital R E D, and then
lowercase r e s s, so redress,red dress. This is a project, an
ongoing series of public artinstallations by a woman named
Jamie black that dates back to2010. Jimmy black is a Metis
(14:14):
woman of Anishnaabe Finnishdescent based in Manitoba, and
she has a collection of hundredsof red dresses, many donated to
her. And what what, what shedoes is she displays them in
empty so she puts them onhanger. She puts these dresses
on hangers and displays themempty in public places to bring
(14:37):
attention to missing andmurdered Indigenous women and
girls, all across Canada in theUS. So there's a permanent
exhibit of this at the CanadianMuseum of human rights. And it's
been presented numerous times byother institutions on both sides
of the border. I don't think theexhibit was up at the Canadian
(14:58):
Museum of human rights when Iwas there. So I'm going to
describe some of the stillimages that I've seen of her
installations. So the firstimage is of an indoor gallery
space. The gallery has whitewalls and there's a row of white
support pillars inside is apolished wooden floor. And there
(15:19):
are six vibrant cherry reddresses hanging on black
hangers, and they're suspendedin midair. Just a few feet off
of the ground. Presumably, thehangers are are supported by
unseen wires. And underneatheach dress is what appears to be
(15:39):
a disc of gathered red fabric.
And the dresses are long, buteach one is unique. So one has
long sleeves and a fitted waistand has long hanging pleats in
the dress. Another one isstrapless and has a low square
neckline. They all hang flat ontheir hangers like clothes in a
(16:03):
closet, but in thispresentation, all of them are
facing us in this otherwiseempty room. Another image that I
found of a differentinstallation is of four red
dresses, hanging from hangersthat are hooked over the
branches of of short, leafytrees with white bark. The trees
(16:23):
are all in a row growing on agrassy lawn, the closest tree is
at our left and the row of treesrecedes into the distance kind
of exiting the image on ourright, the dress that hangs from
the closest trees so thetherefore the largest dress is
the dress that appears largestis is blowing in the breeze and
(16:45):
it's in the shadow of the leafytree above. The next dress along
the row is a mini dress and it'sgot long flared sleeves and the
dress appears to glow in thesunlight. It's it's got the sun
shining straight directly on itand the dress appears to glow.
And then beyond that is a reddress with short sleeves and a
(17:09):
short pleated mini skirt. Andthat hangs in the tree beyond
that. Another image features avelvety sleeveless evening gown
with a plunging neckline on ablack hanger and it's hanging
from the branch of a dryleafless tree, the dress and the
(17:29):
knotted tree this gnarly knottedtree they're in focus. While in
the background there are otherleafless trees that are quite
blurry and out of focus. There'sa second red dress in this
image. It's also blurry, ithangs in the background to our
left. And there's right there'ssome light rain that's falling
in this trade park or this wood.
(17:54):
And then one last image featuresa strapless red dress with a
ruffled offset ham that appearsto float beside a bear tree in a
snowstorm in the hem of thisdress. This kind of a ruffled
offset ham makes me think thatthis would be a really great
dress for dancing. There are nohangers or wires, that that are
(18:20):
readily apparent in this image.
It's just this it looks likejust this dress floating beside
the tree. And there's snowcovering the branches of the
tree and it coats the ground andthe snow covers all the
evergreen trees in thebackground.
Christine Malec (18:37):
Is there enough of a stylized look to the
displays that if you saw a reddress hanging somewhere
incongruously in a public spacethat your mind would go there?
That that's what it is?
JJ Hunt (18:52):
Yeah, absolutely. The dresses, like I said, they're
they're all different. But thecolor of the red is always very
similar. So these are allvibrant, close to a cherry red
like depending on the materialthat color changes a little bit
but the color is verydistinctive. The the way that
they're always hung on hangersand by hanging these dresses on
(19:18):
hangers. They are they maintaina shape they maintain a
silhouette that is clearlyrepresentative of a human form.
If you took these dresses andhung them on a hook, for
example, they might bunch upright where they would just look
like fabric but these are notthat they're the way they are
hung. The way they face us theway they move in the breeze when
(19:44):
they're outside and they andthey play off of the elements
the wind, the rain, the snow,the dresses are a presence. And
because of that, seeing thesered dresses in these spaces is
there Clearly part of a greaterproject visually there's no
there's no question for methey're part of this greater
(20:06):
project.
Christine Malec (20:07):
One other elements we were going to talk
about is a painting by KentMonkman, which returns to the
theme of of residential schools.
And this is very difficult. JJ.
Can you describe it for us?
JJ Hunt (20:24):
Yeah, so Kent Monkman is a Cree visual artist, a
member of the Fisher river CreeNation, currently working out of
Toronto. Monkman's work is verywell known. It's quite often
provocative, explores themes ofcolonization, sexuality,
resilience. He doesinstallations and video art. He
(20:49):
sometimes uses his two spiritedgender fluid alter ego, Miss
Chief Eagle Testicle, who alsoappears in his painting. So
sometimes he takes on thepersona sometimes he includes
this persona in his paintings,really wide variety of work from
Kent Monkman. Today, I thoughtwe'd break down the one
(21:11):
particular painting. He's gotlots of paintings that deal with
colonization. But there's theone in particular that deals
with residential schools that alot of people might have
encountered recently if you'refollowing the hashtag on Twitter
or Facebook 215 children. Inrecent days, this image of this
(21:31):
painting has has come up a lot.
I thought we could break downsome of his style, which is
really important in this image,and then describe that painting
in detail. Kent Monkman uses akind of old master style of
painting for some of his work,the old master style of
painting. These are paintingswhere the classical training of
the artist is quite evident.
(21:55):
European paintings circa 1800 -think about dramatic scenes with
lots of subjects, lots offigures in the painting, that
are engaged in some sort ofstrife or a moment of intrigue.
These images are heavy withallegory, they're thick with
symbolism. The paintings featuresubjects in rich clothing and
(22:19):
draped fabric rendered with lotsof detail, often rich, dark
colors, there's dramaticlighting with heavy shadows and
the shadows, obscure some partsof the action and draw attention
to the others. And they tend tobe full of light skinned
subjects, white subjects withvery animated dramatic
(22:40):
expressions. And some of theseold master artists, some of
these painters who painted inthis style were sent to the
Americas when the Americas wasthe "New world" to paint lavish
sweeping landscapes to showcasethis New World and, and those
landscape paintings are oftenjust extraordinarily grand,
(23:03):
right, very enticing. They'represented, these landscapes are
presented as near empty, placesthat are free of any human
activity canyons and mountainranges, waterfalls, these
incredible vistas, but very fewinhabitants of the land were
included in these paintings.
This was to promote the notionthat this was an empty
(23:24):
landscape, a glorious emptylandscape, just waiting for
colonization. And whenindigenous people were painted,
it was often in formal portraitsfor use in textbooks and as
intellectual studies. So thisstyle of painting is very well
established. So well establishedthat any sighted Canadian or
(23:48):
American Museum goer would knowit very well, because this style
is part of our understanding ofour nation's history. There were
no photographs taken during thistime. So our understanding of
what was happening in ourgrowing countries comes from
these paintings. And whatMonkman does in some of his work
(24:13):
is he uses this classicalrealism aesthetic to present his
own version of colonization,which is very much from an
indigenous perspective. So heheavily references and
reconfigures this style, a stylethat we're not only very
familiar with, but we've beentold is fine art at its finest.
It's painted by the old masters,right? So he uses this style to
(24:37):
tell him to tell a differentside of this story. And as we've
said, one of the subjects heexplores is the residential
school system. And quitespecifically, the very moment
when children were rounded upand taken from their families.
So There aren't photographs ofthese moments that those are not
(25:01):
part of the of our of ourrecord. So paintings like the
scream, Kent Monkman, 2017painting. This is one of the
ways we can, we can connect withthat moment. So I'm going to
take a deep breath and describethe 2017 painting The Scream.
(25:27):
The Scream is a large scale oilpainting seven feet tall, 10 and
a half feet wide, and it depictsa group of seven RCMP officers,
to Catholic priests to nuns. Andall of those figures are white,
and they are pulling childrenaway from three women and all of
(25:48):
the women and all of thosechildren have medium skin tones.
The RCMP officers they'redressed in their famous Mountie
dress uniforms. The red jacketswith brass buttons that are
belted at the waist. Blackriding pants with yellow stripes
down the outside of the leg.
brown leather boots knee highboots and wide brimmed Stetson
hats, the priests, they aredressed in ankle length, black
(26:14):
cassocks with white collars.
These robes are belted at thewaist with rope and each one of
the priests has a hanging crosspendant. Both of them are very
pale. Again at the risk ofeditorializing I would say that
(26:35):
their skin tone has a grayalmost sickly quality to it,
very pale. The nuns are wearingfull black habits, long tunics,
white wimple headscarves thatdrape over the shoulders, and
black veils that go down theback. The women are all wearing
(26:56):
simple knee length dresses in asingle color. So one of the
women is wearing a blue dressanother a burgundy dress the
third a purple dress. And thekids are also dressed in very
simple clothes in plain colors,so no patterns. No adornments on
any of these figures.
(27:17):
Much of the action in thispainting takes place in the
foreground and in the middleground. And behind the action at
our left is a house. It's a bitof a ramshackle house by which I
don't mean it's dirty ordilapidated. But it seems to be
cobbled together. So the sidingfor example is in several
(27:40):
different pastel shades. So itkind of looks like there are
several small houses that havebeen stuck together. And then on
the roof there are patches oftwo different kinds of shingles.
So there are brick orange, andgray shingles in various
patches. There are severalgroupings of people in the
painting. So several, almostdistinct vignettes, which is
(28:01):
very much in keeping with an oldmasters classic. At the front
and center of the painting isthe woman in the blue dress. And
she is being held back by twoMounties who have to they're
gritting their teeth. Andthey're wincing with the effort
of holding back this woman in ablue dress. She's leaning
(28:23):
forward with her armsoutstretched, reaching for a
toddler who is in the arms of apriest and she's leaning so far
forward, that she would veryclearly drop if the Mounties let
go. She's pitched so far forwardand the Mounties are standing
behind her pulling her back. Oneof the Mounties holds her wrist
(28:45):
and her torso, and another pullsthe back of her dress and grabs
her long dark hair. And she'sscreaming, her mouth is open,
her teeth are bared. Her lefthand is spread wide open so that
the skin between her fingers istaught. And her right hand is
(29:06):
held with her fingers bent kindof like a claw. And the toddler
that she's reaching for is justout of reach held on the priests
hip. The toddler is wearing acloth diaper and tan moccasins
and has a decidedly neutralexpression on the face. The
(29:28):
toddler is facing us directlywith this neutral expression but
their eyes are slightly turnedaway just a little bit so we're
not quite making eye contactwith this child, even though
they're facing us directly. Thetoddlers wearing a purple
sweatshirt, which is gathered upunder the pale or like gathered
(29:50):
up under the pale arm of thepriest and the priest whose is
holding this toddler is verypale, has red hair, a bushy red
beard and, and he's turned awayfrom both the toddler and the
screaming woman. So he's facingthe ground with this toddler
held on his back hip. And thereare several other scenes like
(30:15):
that in this work, I couldeasily go into that kind of
detail with with each littlevignette. So on our left, the
woman in the burgundy dresscradles a child that's wearing
fur trimmed boots, and there's apale skinned priest is grabbing
the child by the ankle and armpulling the child away. Behind
(30:35):
them, the woman in the purpledress kneels on the ground
clutching a child. The child isonly wearing white underwear,
and behind her and this child,there's a nun and a Mountie
leaning in. They're bothreaching for the child, on one
on each side of the woman. Andit took me a while to spot it,
but in this little vignette,there's a man lying face down in
(30:58):
the grass with his eyes closed.
He has long dark hair in abraid. And he's wearing jeans
and a plaid shirt. He's the onlyman in this painting that isn't
a Mountie or a priest. And he'sthe only person in the painting
depicted wearing patternedclothing. This plaid shirt.
Behind the screaming woman inthe blue dress there's a nun and
(31:22):
a Mountie, each holding a child.
They're just a few feet apartand the two children are
reaching for each other. Andtheir their hands are barely
touching. And our bottom rightcorner. There's a long haired
child in a gray t shirt who'srunning out of the frame kind of
(31:45):
toward us to the right. Andthere's a Mountie chasing him
with arms extended preparing toscoop him up. Behind them
there's a stoic Mountie, whostands with a rifle at the
ready, facing the rest of theaction. And on a small porch at
the house there's a Mountiestanding with one hand on his
(32:09):
hip, pointing toward the distantright. And they, at the distant
right, there are three olderkids, maybe young teenagers, and
they're sprinting away from ustoward a green field and a tree
line in the background. Thereare birds in the sky, three
birds in the sky, and one birdon the rooftop. Two of the birds
(32:31):
appear to be hawks, I'mguessing. Both of those birds
are in flight. And there are twocrows, maybe ravens black birds.
One is on the roof of the house.
And the other is swooping in,beak open, diving straight for
one of the Mounties.
Christine Malec (32:50):
[Exhale] This is not about us. But that said I
want to publicly thank JJ forbeing able to do this and to do
the research and to say thewords out loud because it's so
important. You're a great humanbeing and thank you for doing
(33:12):
that. For our listeners. We wantto leave you with some resources
because this is hard stuff andparticularly for indigenous
listeners, JJ, maybe you can rundown some of the contact info
for some some help. Yeah.
JJ Hunt (33:30):
So if you feel like you need someone to talk to someone
you know need someone to talkto. You can call the residential
school survivors society forcounseling support. You can
reach them at 1-800-721-0066 andCanada does have a national 24
(33:52):
seven crisis line and that canbe reached at 1-866-925-4419
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