November 26, 2025 • 54 mins
In this episode, we’re breaking down exhibitionism — why being watched can feel exciting, how to tell if it’s your kink, and simple ways to explore it without making things awkward.
I’m joined by Laura Desiree, creative director of Sanctum and a powerful voice in performance and desire. We cover:
✨ What exhibitionism really is
✨ Why being seen can amplify pleasure
✨ Signs it might be your kink
✨ How to try it safely (solo or partnered)
✨ Tips for beginners, from mirror work to first-time events
If you’ve ever been curious about being watched—or just want to understand the psychology behind it—this is your Exhibitionism 101.
🌐 Find Laura: https://thelauradesiree.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
Do the sex.
SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
I'm Annette Benedetti, host of the podcast
formerly known as Locker RoomTalk and Shots.
The show has a new name, TalkSex with Annette.
But at its core, this is stillyour locker room.
It's where we strip away shame,get curious, and speak the
unspoken about sex, kink,dating, pleasure, and desire.
Around here, nothing's offlimits.
(01:52):
These are the kinds ofconversations we save for our
boldest group chats, our mosttrusted friends, and of course,
the women's locker room.
Think raw, honest, and sometimesunapologetically raunchy.
If you've been here from thebeginning, thank you.
And if you're new, welcome to mypodcast where desire meets
disruption and pleasure becomespower.
(02:14):
Now, let's talk about sex.
Cheers.
Today's Talk Sex with Annettetopic is inside exhibitionism.
Why being watched turns you on.
What if the hottest part of sexwasn't what you were doing, but
(02:35):
the fact that someone waswatching?
Maybe it's the thrill of beingseen, maybe it's the power of
putting yourself on display, ormaybe deep down, it's about
being witnessed in your mosthonest, unfiltered state.
Today we are talking aboutexhibitionism, the kink that
blurs the line between desire,performance, and power.
(02:59):
And my guest is Laura Deseray,the new creative director of
Sanctum, the world's mostexclusive erotic club, and a
true force in the world ofintimacy, performance, and
sexual empowerment.
She spent seven years as theproducer and lead anchor of
Naked News and went on to createand produce the Red Umbrella
(03:20):
Talk, a series unpacking therealities of sex work.
Laura is also an adult industryexpert certified intimacy
coordinator, pleasure educator,and activist.
She now leads Eros Unbound, aconventional erotic reading
event that celebratesvulnerability, performance, and
(03:40):
desire that sounds amazing.
With experience spanningeducation, advocacy, and
performance, Laura has becomeone of the most articulate
voices on what it really meansto be seen.
And we are unpacking theexhibitionism kink.
Why it's misunderstood, how toexplore it safely, and why
(04:03):
sometimes the act of beingwatched is the most intimate
thing you can do.
But before we dive in, I want toremind you I'm over on OnlyFans
and there.
I'm sharing my sex and intimacyhow-tos and demos, an
audio-guided self-pleasuremeditations.
I'm also offering sort of anintro to sex and intimacy
(04:24):
coaching.
You can ask me your one-offquestions there.
I'm also on Substack doing awhole lot of the same, minus the
coaching and of course thedemos.
And you can find me in bothplaces by my handle at TalkSex
withinet.
Of course, you can scroll downto the notes section in this
episode.
And you're going to find linksto everywhere you want to find
me.
I can't wait to see you there.
(04:44):
But for now, I would love tohand the mic over.
Laura, can you tell my listenerssome more about you?
SPEAKER_02 (04:53):
Thank you so much for having me on this show.
I'm in awe of you and thissubject.
It's not just something that Iwould call myself an expert of.
It's something that I callmyself the ultimate
exhibitionist.
So my years of experience inboth performance and curating
experiences, I have reallyexplored this, this kink, this
(05:17):
identity for myself.
So I'm really excited to chattoday.
SPEAKER_00 (05:22):
I can't wait to hear what you say about it.
It's come up off and on in myown intimate life.
And I'm hoping our conversationis actually going to give me
opportunity to understand itbetter for myself and figure out
if it is something I'm into.
So, guys, you're going to wantto stay to the end because, like
me, you are going to have anopportunity to learn more about
(05:43):
this kink.
Figure out if it's somethingthat you might be into, or if
you've had an inkling this issomething you're into, by the
end of this episode, you'regoing to have a go bag of tips,
tricks for how to reallyinitiate it in your own intimate
life, or how to talk to apartner about it.
So I am ready to dive in.
(06:05):
How about you, Laura?
SPEAKER_02 (06:06):
I'm so ready.
SPEAKER_00 (06:08):
Cheers.
Let's talk about exhibitionism.
Cheers.
All right.
I am gonna dive in with theopposite.
This is I'm gonna dive in withuh the obvious because this is a
101.
We're starting with a basic.
So what is exhibitionism?
SPEAKER_02 (06:28):
Exhibitionism.
It's the sexual gratificationfound in being watched, being
observed, ideally, when we arein a sensual domain or when
we're in a celebratory state ofourselves.
It's tied to worship.
It is tied to performance, butit really is that supreme joy
(06:49):
and that arousal in havingsomeone watch us when we are in
an intimate moment withourselves or others.
SPEAKER_00 (06:59):
So a lot of listeners, when they hear
exhibitionism, might just thinkof the creepy guy flashing
people, right?
Because that was the first thingthat came to mind for me.
But could you help explain whatall this can encompass outside
of that?
SPEAKER_02 (07:18):
It's so unfortunate that as a society, we've, of
course, attached this negativeconnotation, this like ick and
creep factor to exhibitionism.
It really is an experience ofconfidence and displaying
confidence because a lot of thetimes we actually fear or have a
bit of a nervous anxiety aroundbeing watched, being observed,
(07:40):
being surveilled in a way, withthis idea that we're being seen,
perhaps in moments that we'renot composed or not entirely
ready to be watched.
But there's a group of us thathave this extreme joy and thrill
in being watched.
So when it comes to the sexualarena, exhibitionism is quite
literally wanting to shareaspects of yourself, the
(08:03):
physicality of yourself, thepleasure that you experience for
others to watch.
So, you know, it could be you oryou and your partner attending a
play party and having a bunch ofpeople as spectators watching
you go at the pursuit ofpleasure.
You might also be a contentcreator, and maybe you like to
make content that's then sold ormade available to your viewing
(08:27):
audience.
And then you've got both thesubscribers you're in touch with
and the anonymous appeal ofbeing viewed en masse by people.
But exhibitionism could evenjust be I want you to look at
the outfit I chose to put ontoday.
And maybe that means I'll framemyself in the doorway just a
little bit longer before I movethrough it to enter the room.
(08:48):
Maybe I'll find that light inthe room and give you a look.
It comes with a body posture, aninvitation to be seen.
You know, when people hold theirshoulders back and stand at
their ultimate height, they wantyou to see them.
And so you get a lot of theselittle signals as to who might
be somewhere on the scale ofexhibitionism, be it a light
exhibitionist that maybe has aknack for style and wants you to
(09:12):
take it in, but it could go asfar as yes, that person that
wants to be center stage at theplay party with a whole crew of
people around watching, adoring,just observing them in that
splendor of pleasure.
SPEAKER_00 (09:27):
This brings me to what are some signs one might be
an exhibitionist?
Because I have been asked.
I create content, obviously.
I enjoy with a partner takingphotos.
I enjoy sharing photos.
But when asked if I'm intoexhibitionism, I'm like, I don't
(09:49):
think so.
But I guess I don't really know.
Perhaps you can walk me throughwhat some signs would be.
SPEAKER_02 (09:58):
Some signs would certainly be, like I said, first
and foremost, the stature andbody language, the posture that
comes when you're in the spacewith another person who may or
may not be an exhibitionist,someone that stands with that
tall confidence.
They're saying to you, I likehow I look and I want you to see
it.
So that's usually a greatindicator.
Sometimes an exhibitionist alsojust has this streak of
(10:21):
confidence that's going to sayto you, there'll be cues like,
Don't you like this, what I'mwearing?
Have a look at this.
They'll use a lot of cues thatactually draw your eyes to the
places.
And they're also people thatwould be the first ones on a
dance floor.
They are people that would verylikely want to show you the
elements that are a little bitmore concealed on their outfit.
(10:42):
Maybe they want to share withyou a little bit.
You'll see them lift a pant legto show an anklet or a piece of
jewelry.
So folks that are very willingto say, have eyes on me, are
likely somewhere on that scaleof exhibitionists.
That is the essence of it at itsboiled-down core, is that we
want to be looked at.
So if they're the first ones ona dance floor, there's a good
(11:02):
chance that they are anexhibitionist.
SPEAKER_00 (11:05):
But how does it show up in activities in the sex
space, in the intimate space?
SPEAKER_02 (11:15):
This is a really, it's a big indicator, is one of
the most classic aspects of howwe set the stage for sexuality
and for sexual play.
Do we want the lights outcompletely?
Or are we okay to be visible toeach other?
There are a lot of folks thatwant to close their eyes, have
all the lights shut off, andthat's how they feel safe
(12:36):
exploring their pleasure andtheir sexual selves.
And if that's something thatworks for them, I applaud it.
There's nothing wrong with that.
But you'll see folks that wantthe lights turned on, or at
least to a degree where they'resaying, hey, look at me, people
that want to wear veryattention-grabbing bedroom
couture, lingerie, or differentrobes, kimonos, lace gear,
(12:58):
leather gear, fetish gear.
People that own these items andwant to incorporate them into
their intimate play, they wantto be seen.
They want it to be looked at,they want to draw attention to
how they're presentingthemselves.
So I would say a big part of itreally is remaining visible.
A lot of people like that act ofseduction that includes
something like a strip tease orsome element of observe me from
(13:52):
a distance and worship it.
And that is the exhibitionistthat enjoys that the most.
I want someone to bloom all ofthat saliva and foam.
I want them to be drooling.
And it's the way I've lived mylife, my entire life, from
burlesque to where I am now.
I've grown such a passion andcomfort in owning this part of
(14:13):
my identity.
And it really is a source ofjust endless confidence in every
other aspect of my life.
I would challenge people tomaybe try it on for size and see
what it feels like to play thatpart of the exhibitionist, even
in a role play.
And I'm sure we'll get to thatin some of our tips and some of
our ways to incorporate thatinto your lives.
SPEAKER_00 (14:37):
Is it something you nurtured?
Because I can acknowledgeaspects of this in my life, but
I definitely came from I wasraised in a religion and a
household that was conservative.
It took a lot to get over issueswith my body and being
self-conscious.
And of course, the more I'vefallen in love with my body and
(14:59):
the more that I've shed some ofthat shame, the more I'm like,
definitely need the lights onduring sex.
I'm not missing out on thatshow.
And so I'm curious with you,especially at the level at which
you have embraced this and donethis, right?
Yeah.
Were you always that way?
SPEAKER_02 (15:19):
What you're saying is such a universal story.
I think a lot of us will findour own experiences in that
wrestling match with feelinggood about our bodies.
And I am certainly one of thosestories.
I'm six feet tall, which meansI'm hard to ignore.
I am not one of those curvygirls.
We're living in a very curvygirl era, right?
(15:39):
Where we're seeing a lot ofemphasis put on what's the size
of your ass?
What are the size of your tits?
What is that ratio between hipand waist, all of that
ridiculous pressure that seemsto be mounting in society.
And I hope coming to an end,quite honestly.
I want to see us continue toembrace just how varied bodies
are, and that it really shouldbe more about a confidence that
(16:00):
we have as opposed to thespecific specs of a person.
I grew up being bullied as lankyand uncoordinated as I am.
I remember growing up being justthis big sort of beanstalk of a
person and being bullied for itfor not having development in
places that other young womenwere having in, say, high
(16:21):
school.
So I remember a lot of thatfeeling of, oh no, maybe I'm not
worth anything.
And I was a dance student for somuch of my life.
And a lot of our bodies willtake.
If you're a dancer, a gymnast,you get a good muscle build,
you're really lean, you usuallyhave some great flexibility in
there.
I had to use dance as a way ofseeing what my body could do as
(16:44):
opposed to what my body was.
I turned down having a modelingcareer.
I wasn't interested in pursuingthat because very young, when
you are a tall person, you arepoached by agencies.
And I was.
And in my late teens, I realizedI don't think I want to go down
that path because if I didn'tlike the bullying I had in high
school, I'm gonna hate thebullying that continues in
(17:06):
making a life out of my bodybeing a product.
I had years where I wasn'tpursuing anything in adult or
anything in entertainment.
And I needed those years.
I was a Phillips student.
I wanted to make movies, and Ineeded those years of finding my
identity and what made mespecial.
And then returning to thecelebration of body through
(17:29):
burlesque.
So in my early 20s, I get intoburlesque and I learn about this
art form that is so celebratoryof attitude, not just
measurements, not just how gooddo your tits look in a push-up
bra, but how do you move andwhat is the story you're
telling?
And so that, quite honestly, forme, was the origin of this
(17:50):
exhibitionism that became a wayof life was I felt an energy in
those moments on stage.
I felt the greatest joy and thereason to live, dare I say.
It felt so fabulous to be outthere on stage and to use some
of my given gifts of movementand try my best at costuming,
(18:12):
which was never great.
I was horrendous at puttingcostumes together.
But that for me was a great partof my story, a great part of my
path that made me fall in lovewith myself.
Because further down the line,of course, I become the anchor
of a naked TV show where onereally is forced to confront
that criticism of their bodybecause I am entering a
(18:35):
professional field where youhave to look a certain way.
And I received so much critiquefrom my producer above me, who
quite honestly would send mescreenshots of my ass,
screenshots of my butt, and say,we have to do something about
this.
He would send me screenshots ofmy body and certain outfits
(18:57):
because we'd start an episode ofNaked News fully dressed, and
you remove the clothing as yougo.
And so it really forced me togrow a thick skin that said,
you're missing the point.
You're missing the point thatI'm in Jamaica interviewing a
sex educator about how toapproach sexual liberation for
adults with autism.
(19:17):
Like that to me is the goalmineof the work itself, is that what
we put into the program was soexciting that to be discounted
as to what just our bodieslooked like was ultimately part
of my breaking point for leavingthe show.
But I'm no stranger to it.
And I think a lot of women havethat experience in their life on
(19:39):
very different scales, whetherit's a restaurant job that you
couldn't get because you didn'twant to wear the uniform they
wanted you to wear.
So it's an age-old thing, isn'tit?
SPEAKER_00 (19:48):
Yeah.
So just in this conversation sofar, what has surprised me is
the definition of exhibitionismand how it looks even as far as
we've gotten into the bedroom,ways in which you can start
exploring yourself to figure outif this is something you can
play with in your intimate life.
(20:11):
And before we dive into thebedroom, what I want to ask you
is this from the conversationwe're having, it sounds like to
me that even exploringexpositionism and how you hold
your body, how you look at yourbody, it can also be used as a
(20:32):
tool for empowerment,self-acceptance, and self-love.
Is that correct?
SPEAKER_02 (20:39):
That is such a fit.
And I love making thatconnection for people because
again, you hear exhibitionismand we go, oh my God, it's that
guy with the trench coat that'sjust gonna be flashing you on
the street, right?
No, it comes with a requiredconfidence if you want to really
explore exhibitionism, becausewhat we're doing is we're
bearing ourselves entirely.
(21:00):
Sometimes it's just the body andthe nakedness, but sometimes
it's actually the act ofpursuing pleasure and the
physicality in the bedroom,right?
So it does require you to beable to feel yourself, to feel
the strength of yourself, tofeel the pride you have for your
body and for who you are withinit, because that's what animates
it, right?
(21:20):
We've all got these bodies, butit's also how we animate them.
Because you look at some of thefamous burlesque performers
throughout the ages, I think ofGypsy Rose Lee, who in the 1930s
and 40s would spend 20 minutesunbuttoning a glove and would
have a room of audience justabsolutely transfixed in this
(21:42):
trance because the way thefingers would command the eyes,
the way the hands would luretowards the body, as we're
waiting button by button, all ofthat's within your power.
But how are you animating it?
That's what's to explore.
SPEAKER_00 (21:57):
So let's jump into how can people start exploring
exhibitionism in the bedroom.
We're gonna start with dippingthe toe in the water and then
move into fully swimming in theexhibitionism experience.
SPEAKER_02 (22:11):
A lot of people are gonna have a curiosity am I an
exhibitionist or not?
This is great and it's a perfectstarting point.
I would not recommendimmediately bringing in an
audience.
Sometimes we think, oh gosh,there's this desire, and I know
it requires someone watching me,so I have to find someone to
watch me.
That's not true.
First and foremost, do you havea full-length mirror in your
room?
(22:31):
Because you're gonna perform toit.
You're going to take a good lookat yourself in whatever outfit
you enjoy the most, whateverunderwear you enjoy the most.
And then, of course, your nakedselves.
That's something you have toconfront.
That's something you have totake in.
And a good way of examining howwe feel about our bodies and
exhibitionism is to quiteliterally stand in that
(22:52):
full-length mirror and look fromhead to toe.
And as we're scanning the body,are we reaching judgment points?
Are we looking going, oh God, myneck, not what it should be.
Maybe I should get thatNefertiti necklace.
Oh, my shoulders, God, they'renot defined.
Oh, my boobs are lower than Iremember them.
That's not going to do us anyfavors here.
We have to look up and down thebody as honestly as possible and
(23:16):
find love in there.
Because there is so much.
If you can stand upright, youshould be proud of yourself.
Not everyone can.
So I would say first andforemost, take a look at
yourself, spend time withyourself.
One of the most powerfulexercises that I remember
learning as a beginner inburlesque, something that helped
me really confirm, yes, I likethis.
Yes, I love me, was the verysimple act of standing in front
(23:39):
of my mirror, putting on myfavorite song.
And what you do is you take yourhands and pretend you're forming
a lather of soap, as if you'rein the shower and you need to
get those suds going.
And all you're gonna do for thenext song lengths is wash
yourself.
It's all miming.
We're not actually in the showerdoing this, but it activates
(24:00):
every part of the body, not justwhat so many women and so many
humans think they're worth.
How hard are my abs, how big ismy ass.
That's not what this is about.
What it's about is taking thisfictional lather and putting it
all over the body.
And what you're doing is you'respreading this permission to
touch, this sensual act offeeling ourselves and perhaps
(24:21):
spreading love to ourselves.
And you're also learning how tomove at the exact same time
because that song is playing andyou can't help but be rhythmic
to it.
So it's a little ritual thathelped me understand, oh, I want
to show someone this.
I want to move like this at thispace, nice and slow, and I want
to celebrate myself for otherpeople's eyes.
(24:43):
So I always think that's a greatstarting point is to first and
foremost work with yourself.
Once you've gotten to thatpoint, the next graduating step,
now that we're in the modernage, and I can turn my cell
phone camera on and I can hitrecord, put that thing at a
distance.
Put it on the other side of theroom.
Do not hold it selfie style.
(25:03):
Free yourself from the device,put it somewhere in the room and
just walk in front of it, movein front of it, dance in front
of it, get undressed slowly infront of it and give it a full
360.
And then afterwards you're gonnawatch that tape back and say, Do
I like what I see?
These are great ways of justgetting yourself familiar with
the act of being watched, andyou're not running the risk of,
(25:27):
oh God, I embarrassed myself infront of someone.
Oh no, I made it awkward anduncomfortable because we all
fear that, right?
And when we're being vulnerable,trying something new, the
chances are you might enter anawkward moment.
So get comfortable doing it withyourself for yourself first.
And then we've got the joy ofsaying to whomever is in your
(25:47):
life, be it a partner, be it aplaymate, you say to them, Hey,
I want to show you something.
Hey, I'm curious about myexhibitionist elements, my
exhibitionism and the curiosityaround it.
Can I show you something?
And that's where you get to takethe stage.
It could be, well, you're out atdinner, and maybe you say, I'm
(26:10):
gonna come back from thisbathroom and I'm gonna walk to
the table real slow.
Would you watch me?
Just find me in the room andwatch me.
Or I'm gonna come out of thatbathroom.
I've just had a shower and I'mgonna make my way to this bed.
Would you watch me?
It's not about, hey, I'm gonnastart touching myself and
performing a sex act.
No.
It's about I'm gonna dosomething that I know I'm
(26:32):
comfortable doing, and I wantyou to watch me.
And you don't permit immediatetouch.
Try and keep it silent, let itbe a visual exchange.
Because words, sometimes they'renot gonna know what to say, and
then you're not gonna know whatto say.
Take a vow of silence and say, Ijust want to be watched.
Start there.
SPEAKER_00 (26:50):
I love that you bring uh putting off the
compliments.
SPEAKER_02 (26:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:55):
Because even if your partner or the lucky person
thinks they're saying somethingpositive.
If you're in a vulnerable state,I don't know anyone else, but I
can twist a thing to meansomething negative.
I'm feeling even a little bitvulnerable or insecure.
(27:17):
But it also takes you out of thestate of being up into your head
and thinking about everythingthat's going on instead, just
letting it be that beingwitnessed, that's truly being
witnessed with it stayingsilent.
SPEAKER_02 (27:31):
Take the words away.
That can be such a pressuringmoment for both the giver and
the receiver.
How do I compliment this personin a moment that feels so
special, so surreal, sopowerful, so electric.
Finding those words is hard.
It's another one of my grandaffinities in life, however,
(27:51):
articulation and the search forthose words.
Buffett, in an exploration ofexhibitionism, I would not bring
in vocabulary, not in thoseearly days.
Make it a silent exchange sothat you're able to really feel
eyes on you and not getdistracted by that compliment
wasn't good enough.
And I'm really pissed off thatthey didn't notice I'm wearing a
(28:12):
thong today instead of afullback cotton panty.
It's like that can beoverwhelming.
The person receiving your showof exhibitionism, your
invitation to watch them, thatmight be a lot for them.
They might feel overwhelmedwatching you in this new form.
Maybe they don't know this sideof you.
They likely don't.
If it's brand new, they don'tknow it.
(28:34):
So putting the pressure forwords in can be a little a
little too much for the earlydays.
I would say hold off on that.
SPEAKER_00 (28:41):
What do you do?
Let's say with one of theexercises you talked about
earlier with the mirror work.
What happens when you do thatscan and you do hit those points
of criticism, self-critcriticism, or just feeling like
you look at a part of your bodyand you're like, oh, repulsed,
(29:03):
or other people will berepulsed.
SPEAKER_02 (29:07):
It changes day to day, right?
There are some days where youlook at that body, especially
women that live with a mooncycle and whatnot.
Like there are days where wejust feel invincible.
And then there are days where wego, really?
A pimple?
I'm 36 years old.
I can't even look myself in theface right now.
And that's a reality.
(29:28):
So when that comes up for you,stop drop and care for yourself.
Quite literally.
Like in that moment, you have tobe kind to yourself.
If you start critiquing, it'sthe same as if you start popping
that pimple, you're gonna makeit worse.
So what you need to do isactually care for yourself.
If you're in that mirror and yougo, oh, I just don't like the
look of that, do something nicefor yourself.
Whether it's get into a hotshower and say that's enough for
(29:50):
tonight, whether it's get intobed and turn on some TV, maybe
you need some rest, maybe youneed a meal, maybe you need to
feed yourself.
Clearly, there's something therethat needs to be tended to.
Obviously, there's a whole longhistory that we have of being
such heavy critics of our nakedbodies and attaching shame to
the witnessing of ourselves inthe naked form.
(30:13):
I always advise if people dofeel it's an ongoing struggle,
this is something you might wantto talk to either a sex coach
about or your therapist about.
Just say, hey, this is coming upfor me.
I'm starting to notice that Idon't like my own body.
I'm looking at my own body and Ican't find something to
celebrate, or I'm really stuckon this one thing.
Because it could just be, youknow what?
(30:34):
You needed to take care ofyourself, or maybe you needed to
see what your body can do.
So, what are some of yourfavorite activities?
It could be a hobby like makingart of some kind.
It could be going to the gym.
Remind yourself what your bodycan do the moment that you find
something that your body isfailing you at, because I
guarantee it's not failing youat it.
You're just in a bad headspace.
(30:56):
And that can be really hard totalk ourselves out of.
I've been there, I've been thereso many times, especially under
stress.
SPEAKER_00 (31:03):
Absolutely.
Every other day I find myselflike, come on, you look good,
you're okay.
Just calm down.
All right, so you've done themirror work, you have pranced
around in front of your partner,and you're like, uh, I like
this.
Let's elevate this to the nextlevel.
(31:24):
What would the next level ofexhibitionism look like?
SPEAKER_02 (31:29):
The next level would be making a sex tape with your
partner for yourselves.
Whether or not they are theexhibitionist as well, they
might not be, but there'ssomething about you enjoying
sharing yourself in this way.
So ask your partner, hey, how doyou feel about us recording
ourselves?
Who owns the content?
Where does the content go?
Are we sharing it with eachother?
(31:50):
So please try and iron those outahead of time.
If you are the exhibitionist andyou're the one that wants this
content, maybe you guys watch itand delete it.
Maybe you watch it and share it.
But I would say the next stepwould be either putting a mirror
above your damn bed or filming asex tape with your partner,
doing it with your partner,filming yourself in a more
(32:10):
graduated, sensual way.
Maybe you're starting topleasure yourself.
Maybe you're playing a littlebit more intentionally to a
camera.
You'll see, again, I stillhaven't brought someone in yet.
I'm going to in the next step.
I have not brought someone inyet, though, because I really
think it's important that weminimize the danger.
That's a big part of myphilosophy in all sex activism
(32:34):
and pleasure politics, is thatwe want to minimize the dangers.
And so I always say to people,urgency is the death of agency.
That's something I learned in myintimacy coordination education.
When we make rash decisions veryquickly, we oftentimes have not
thought through thosepotentials.
And it's not about hunkeringdown and spending a year
(32:55):
considering it.
But ask yourself in all of thepotentials, do I feel confident
and excited to do this?
Because if there's a no comingup somewhere, then don't do it.
So I still am saying, we havenot invited another person yet
to watch.
Take it to that sexual level.
So either film yourself or filmyou and your partner, watch it
back.
How does that feel?
Do you like it?
Do you like which is it gettingyou off?
(33:17):
Are you getting excited by it?
Great.
I have a next step ready foryou.
Are you ready, Annette?
I am ready.
unknown (33:23):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (33:23):
I'm ready.
SPEAKER_00 (33:24):
I made the video and I'm like, God, I really know how
to do that, don't I?
SPEAKER_02 (33:28):
Yes.
And there are options here.
But if you want to startentering the public sphere, and
this means attending liveevents, first and foremost, if
you are a beginner to live sexparties or erotic parties,
however they want to callthemselves, you need to know
some of the basics here.
Okay.
It is not necessary that youinvolve with other people
(33:50):
attending the party.
So maybe you're ready to take itto a public place.
You want to attend a party,depending on what city you're
in.
I'm in New York.
In New York, there are so manyplay parties and amazing
opportunities to be watched inthis way.
See if check your online forumsand online communities for who
might be hosting these kinds ofevents.
(34:12):
Do a little research.
Find out who's a member.
Find out who already attendsthese.
If you're getting good feedbackabout it, you've got nothing to
lose.
Attend one of these events andmaybe go in as the voyeur.
That's the other thing.
We might say, I'm anexhibitionist, I'm ready to be
watched.
Go in and play voyeur.
You have to see the other sideof it before you dive in.
If it's your first experience,go in and really see what it
(34:35):
feels like for others to bewatching, for others to be on
display.
Is that something?
Is it still affirming yourdesire for exhibitionism?
Or are you starting to realize Ijust like being watched by my
partner?
I just like being watched in thesafety of my home.
So don't go into the partyattendance saying, we are going
tonight and we're finding thatelevated platform with the
(34:56):
spotlight and it is ours fortonight.
We're putting on a show allnight long.
Don't guarantee that foryourself because you're going to
go in and feel that pressure.
And if it's your first time, youmight not know what that
atmosphere feels like, lookslike, interacts with you like.
So I would say plan yourattendance to go in and witness.
Take a look.
What does it look like to seeother exhibitionists in that
(35:17):
glory?
Do you feel like I want to getup there?
Oh, I want everyone to watch me.
If that is ringing like aresounding yes, then you found
yourself the place to be.
But it might also be that youwant to curate a party.
Maybe you want a smaller groupof people, trusted friends,
(35:37):
like-minded individuals, and youwant to throw that one.
Or you want to throw a houseparty.
You want to invite folks to comein and witness this thing.
Now you can have fun with thisand say, you guys are our
audience.
But you can also go into it andsay, We all might play.
Play is open and available toall, right?
Again, hosting a party is a verybig different endeavor, though.
(36:00):
So if you don't have experiencewith it, you want to be sure you
know what you're doing.
How do you equip your space fora play party or even to bring
people in to witness you?
Do you want to check cell phonesand not let them have theirs?
Do you want to supply any of thenecessary items, sanitizers,
cleaners, condoms, lubes?
These are things you have toconsider.
So I would say first andforemost, attend a live event
(36:23):
and go in to watch.
Play the voyeur for a night, seewhat it feels like.
SPEAKER_00 (36:28):
I love that.
And also I think important tonote is each venue, if from my
experience, each venue or sexclub and sex party, the clubs
are always gonna be there, butthey all have their own feel.
The people who attend thedifferent clubs will tend to fit
(36:49):
into different groups, right?
Yeah.
One club may be more queerfriendly, one club may be mostly
swingers, one club may be morealigned with this
heteronormativity.
So it also might be good to youif the first one goes well.
Or even if it doesn't, if you goto one and you're like, maybe
(37:11):
try more than one.
SPEAKER_02 (37:12):
Yeah.
And that's all part of it,right?
Some of that background researchis so important because even
things like the atmosphere ofthe space itself, some of the
clubs are very dark and dim, andeveryone in attendance likes to
wear masquerade.
But some of them are verylively, and you've got lights of
all kinds of colors, and you'vegot a drum and bass mix going,
(37:35):
and you've got one massive bedas opposed to smaller allocated
bedrooms.
So there are so many variationsof play parties.
And I would say try a bunch ofthem on for size, right?
If this is something you'reenjoying and you're having good
experiences, and again, going inwith that no-pressure approach
of, hey, we don't necessarilyhave to go in and play.
(37:57):
Now be open to what your partneris also going to be experiencing
if you're attending withsomeone, because I do think that
is a very important element,right?
You want to be checking in withyour partner every step of the
way after every one of theseadventures.
Hey, we're going to go to thisparty tonight.
Ask them, how did that feel foryou?
If you're partnered, how does itfeel for your partner to have
(38:19):
everyone else look at you?
Now, obviously, it's up to you.
I'm not going to say to you,abide by their rules 100% of who
can look at your body and howthat feels like old-world,
dangerous, archaic behavior.
I don't love that.
But still, you want to beconsiderate of their feelings.
And if it's advancing at a ratethat's a little too fast, you
might start finding a distancebetween each other.
(38:40):
And that's what we don't want.
So check in along the way.
Hey, how did that feel for otherpeople to be looking at me?
Because maybe you're attendingin your lingerie.
Maybe you're taking all yourclothes off and the two of you
want to walk around naked.
How did that feel for otherpeople to be looking at my body?
And then ask yourself, how didit feel for other people to be
looking at your body?
SPEAKER_00 (38:59):
Well, that's interesting too.
In my mind, I was thinking, oh,exhibitionism would be if you
were playing and people werewatching.
But it could be just you wear,you go in a trench coat, take it
off, and you have lingerie underthat you're wearing there and
people are seeing you in thatlingerie.
SPEAKER_02 (39:17):
Sure.
There are people that attendthese events and stay fully
dressed.
There are people that come in anevening gown and then later
through the night, halfwaythrough, they're in lingerie.
And then another 20 minuteslater, they're fully naked.
That's the options here is thatyou can dress yourself and
reveal yourself however youwish.
SPEAKER_00 (39:35):
So it could be perhaps that exhibitionism for
you is mostly just wanting to beseen, seen.
(40:40):
And another type ofexhibitionism could be that you
want to be seen, but also youwant to be seen while having
pleasure.
But it doesn't necessarily haveto be both.
Like you could just enjoy thebeing seen, but you're like, I
have to do my sexy stuff inprivate.
Absolutely.
Or it could then be both.
SPEAKER_02 (41:01):
Absolutely.
Those are within that gradientscale of exhibitionism, right?
Sometimes people say, hey, Ijust want to be that sparkling
Swarovski swan that's on thatlittle platform with all the
spotlights.
I just want to be looked at.
And that's absolutely fine inyour solo brilliance and glory.
When we're talking about thesexual play of exhibitionism,
(41:21):
we're talking about, I want youto watch me getting pleasure.
I want you to watch me maybeeven getting pain.
Maybe me getting degraded inways.
This is all within it, right?
Because there's also the kinkside of exhibitionism where some
people say, I want you to seewhat I can endure.
I want you to see how far Isubmit.
I want you to see how much I cantake.
(41:45):
And so it's not always aboutbeing this brilliant, dominant,
untouchable queen of a creature.
Sometimes it is about witness mein all the variations of my
sexual identity and my sexualplay.
And that's what I love about it,right?
I love witnessing an amazingBDSM scene where this submissive
(42:05):
just wants you to watch whatthey can take.
It is incredible.
I sometimes I just find myselfin total awe and I go, yeah, I
couldn't do that.
I would tap out at this point.
I'm impressed.
I'm thoroughly impressed by thisindividual.
That happens.
SPEAKER_00 (42:20):
Exhibitionism in that case could even just be
(43:25):
between a couple and the sub, inthis case, is one example
wanting to be seen by their domand how much they can take.
It's the being witnessed of.
That's a form of exhibitionism.
SPEAKER_02 (43:42):
Absolutely.
And when it's done against theirwill and desire or against
hesitation, that can lean intosome of that humiliation.
But sometimes even people thatwant to be seen in this
submissive state where they'retaking an enormous amount of
pain or an enormous amount ofimpact play, they enjoy that
you're watching them be treatedlike this.
(44:03):
Exhibitionism is just saying, Iwant you to see me in my sexual
rawness.
I want you to see me in mysexual potency of who I am.
I want you to see me in all theglory of who I am while in the
pursuit of pleasure, to mydefinition of it.
SPEAKER_00 (44:20):
Now, for those who want crowd control, what about
situations where people enjoyhaving sex in a car in a more
public place?
That's also a form ofexhibitionism, correct?
SPEAKER_02 (44:36):
Yeah, public play does certainly exist in the
realm of exhibitionism.
I cannot condone it in spaceswhere it's not permitted, but my
goodness, do you have a bountyof locations in our modern world
that cater to this specifically?
You've got Cap Dag, which is anentire village of nudity and
sexual freedom.
(44:57):
You've got hedonism in thegrill, Jamaica, you've got
desire in in Mexico, in Cancun.
So there are so manydestinations where if your
desire is to be watched in amore public, natural setting,
like on a beach or in anightclub, or in your hotel room
with all the windows open andthe blinds pulled back, there
(45:19):
are places to do that whereyou're not interfering with
other people's preferences orother people's freedoms to say,
I don't want to see that.
That's why unfortunately wecan't, no matter how hot I think
it is, I would think it's veryhot at a very, let's call it
bumper to bumper trafficsituation.
Yeah, I'd love to slip into thebackseat and just enjoy myself.
That would be amazing.
Unfortunately, in our world,it's not a it's not a green
(45:43):
light.
SPEAKER_00 (45:44):
And the reason we would say this so that people
know, because I have to tellyou, over the course of my sex
life, I've had so many partnersask, Well, do you want to go and
do it in this place where wemight get caught?
And that definitely isn't mything.
Like, I don't that that I'm justlike, no, thank you.
So maybe saying why it's a no,it takes away someone else's
(46:07):
opportunity to say no.
It forces people to seesomething that they don't want
to.
SPEAKER_02 (46:14):
At that point, I wonder, are we even talking
exhibitionism?
Because you're talking aboutgetting caught.
So there's a desire or anexcitement around being found,
being discovered, and thenbeing, I guess, in the act where
we're not supposed to be.
It's more of a desire for a rulebreak as opposed to a desire to
(46:36):
just be witnessed.
It's this desire to be caught.
And yeah, that can be extremelyexciting.
And there's a number ofsingle-stall bathrooms across
many of your metropolis cities.
Why not sneak your partner intoone of them and enjoy yourself?
And then the two of you exit atthe same time.
And that should be excitementenough that the two of you are
exiting from that bathroomtogether.
(46:58):
You know what I mean?
There's workarounds for thisthat aren't going to get you
necessarily in legal dangerbecause no one should be
composing or conductingthemselves in that way.
I think that's a little bit, alittle selfish, let's say.
SPEAKER_00 (47:10):
Right.
And I like your workaroundthough.
That's again, that probablywouldn't be my thing, but it's
interesting how you can takedifferent situations that one
might want to experience andthen find something that works
for it without putting anybodyelse in a weird situation or
landing you in jail.
That answered my question.
(47:30):
That doesn't really fit in theexhibitionism realm, then that's
not really what it's about.
Interesting.
unknown (47:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:39):
All right.
We've taken y'all and myselffrom entry level.
I'm definitely past entry level.
I've sent videos and picturesand so on and so forth.
But like how you can step it upand see how it feels to you.
Do you have any advice you wantto share from here on trying out
(48:03):
or discovering exhibitionism?
SPEAKER_02 (48:05):
Yeah.
It's a very exciting journey.
But what I will say to everybodyis do not sacrifice your own
pleasure and listen to mecarefully, okay?
When we enter a performativerealm and we are being watched,
there is that invitation ofpressure, let's say, to give
(48:27):
them a show.
And that can be fun.
But if you start faking thingsand you start losing your access
to that orgasm, because maybeyou like everything except that
face you make when you climax,do not lose that ability.
That's what the potential ishere.
And I know that soundsabsolutely ridiculous, but it's
(48:48):
a real thing.
If you start only having thisperformative sex where you're
getting this feeling of likeapplause for what you do, you
might start to be performing forthem as opposed to continuing
your authenticity and continuingthat sexual rawness.
(49:08):
So that's like a reason why I'veput up some walls in my own
content creation and my ownperformance demand as a content
creator, is that I don't want tolose that availability to my own
orgasm.
I don't want to start conflatinga performative orgasm with what
my true, raw, real orgasm looks,feels, and sounds like.
(49:30):
So don't lose that along theway.
If you're starting to get reallyaffirmed by an audience, maybe
at these parties and peoplestart saying, hey, it's those
two.
They put on a great show.
You know, that whole showbizelement can become a pressure.
Are you still being authentic inyour pursuit of pleasure?
Because trust me, doingacrobatic circuit-soleil-styled
(49:50):
sex is very exciting and fun towatch, but it's not always the
thing that gets you off.
So make sure that you are stillgetting off the way that you
need to get off.
Even if that means you lay,you're laying on your back and
you're hardly moving and someoneelse is doing all the work, or
you're it's a quiet sound, orit's an ugly sound, or it's a
large and ridiculous explosionthat might need an exorcism.
(50:14):
Good.
Make sure that you still haveaccess to it.
Do not become desensitizedbecause the thrill of people
watching has forced you toperform for them.
SPEAKER_00 (50:26):
Yeah, the high you can get from the applause can
sometimes get confused with thatenergetic orgasm that you're
going to experience in your bodyfrom actual pleasure.
There's kind of two differenttypes of pleasure happening
there.
And one definitely makesorgasming a little bit, at least
in my case, maybe not foreverybody.
(50:48):
I know there are plenty of womenwho have orgasms easily.
I am not blessed in that way.
So performance can definitelykeep me from orgasming.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (50:59):
So I'd say keep like a solo, uh, a solo ritual and a
partnered ritual if you are in acouple or in a relationship
dynamic.
Keep that active along with allof the fun, performative
exhibitionism that you'reexploring.
Just make sure that you're stillmaintaining access to yourself
and your authenticity along theway.
(51:20):
We don't want to lose that.
SPEAKER_00 (51:22):
And there is truly nothing hotter than an authentic
orgasm, regardless of how itlooks.
When you can feel when you'rewith a partner and they have
that like incredible primalorgasm and it does not look like
anything you've ever seen on thesilver screen, you're just like,
oh, what the that's real.
That's so real.
(51:43):
Well the whole this wholeepisode has really been a
step-by-step for me and mylisteners.
But for someone who's okay, whatcan I start doing tonight?
What's something I can dotonight to kick this off?
Or how do I bring this up withmy partner?
What is your advice?
SPEAKER_02 (52:04):
Step number one, look at yourself in the mirror,
okay?
Make it between you andyourself.
Look at everything.
When was the last time youlooked at your genitalia and
really looked at it?
Right.
So take in that full,encompassing, embracing look at
yourself in your entirewholeness.
Step number one.
Step number two, you want to sayto your partner, guess what?
(52:24):
I've got this discovery burningup inside of me, and I want to
find ways to begin exploring it.
Here's what I'm thinking.
I would like you to watch me.
And then, like I said, make itsimple.
Either you're walking throughthe room or you're dancing or
you're removing your clothes, oryou're performing the most
exciting self-pleasure sceneanyone has ever brought to their
(52:47):
partner's real flesh attention.
Maybe start doing some researchof what live events you want to
attend.
See if there are some in yourcity, or if maybe it's a fun
vacation you could have if youare hitting a big city where
most of these events arehappening.
You've got calendars at theseclubs, you've got calendars of
events.
And so find one that indescription and in some, I
(53:10):
guess, discussions with otherpeople feel like a fit.
If it's a heavy bondage nightand you're not into bondage,
don't prioritize that one.
If it's a swingers night andyou're a single person, don't
prioritize that one.
Really look for that perfect fitof an event.
And you can ask questions toeither the people running the
(53:30):
event or the members of thatcommunity.
So if you're looking to makethose connections, again, a lot
of folks have an Instagram page.
If they have an Instagram page,find out who's following them.
Start to learn who's a part ofthat world and see if it's
something that you're interestedin jumping into.
SPEAKER_00 (53:45):
There you go, guys.
If you are curious, now you knowwhat are some signs you might be
into exhibitionism.
How do you dip your toe in thewater?
How do you dive in and startswimming?
This is a really good 101 foryou.
Thank you so much.
Now, can you tell my listenersall of the different places they
(54:10):
can find you if they want tofind out more about what you're
doing and how to get in touchwith you?
SPEAKER_02 (54:15):
You can find connections to everything that
I'm active within and everythingI'm creating at my website,
thelauradeseray.com.
Please do connect.
SPEAKER_00 (54:26):
Yeah, and you can of course scroll down to the notes
in this episode, and I'm gonnadrop that link there so you can
find out all of the really coolstuff that she is involved in.
An erotic club.
SPEAKER_02 (54:41):
Come find us at sanctum.com, snctm.com.
We would love to show you ourworld.
SPEAKER_00 (54:50):
Perfect.
All right, folks.
Here is yet another kink for youto explore because no kink
should be left unturned in yourlife.
You want to expand your accessto intimacy and play as much as
you can.
Let me know how your journeygoes.
(55:10):
Did you listen to this and say,hey, I think that might be my
thing?
I would love to find out if youhave questions or comments.
You can scroll down.
And if you're on my YouTubechannel at TalkSex with Annette,
you can drop a comment, send mea message in the comments
section below.
I would love to hear what youhave to say.
If you have questions, leavethem and I will work hard to get
(55:32):
them answered.
Thank you again, Laura, forjoining me.
I feel honored to have had thisconversation with you.
Thank you, Annette.
And until next time, listeners,I'll see you in the locker room.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Do the sex.
SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
I'm Annette Benedetti, host of the podcast
formerly known as Locker RoomTalk and Shots.
The show has a new name, TalkSex with Annette.
But at its core, this is stillyour locker room.
It's where we strip away shame,get curious, and speak the
unspoken about sex, kink,dating, pleasure, and desire.
Around here, nothing's offlimits.
(01:52):
These are the kinds ofconversations we save for our
boldest group chats, our mosttrusted friends, and of course,
the women's locker room.
Think raw, honest, and sometimesunapologetically raunchy.
If you've been here from thebeginning, thank you.
And if you're new, welcome to mypodcast where desire meets
disruption and pleasure becomespower.
(02:14):
Now, let's talk about sex.
Cheers.
Today's Talk Sex with Annettetopic is inside exhibitionism.
Why being watched turns you on.
What if the hottest part of sexwasn't what you were doing, but
(02:35):
the fact that someone waswatching?
Maybe it's the thrill of beingseen, maybe it's the power of
putting yourself on display, ormaybe deep down, it's about
being witnessed in your mosthonest, unfiltered state.
Today we are talking aboutexhibitionism, the kink that
blurs the line between desire,performance, and power.
(02:59):
And my guest is Laura Deseray,the new creative director of
Sanctum, the world's mostexclusive erotic club, and a
true force in the world ofintimacy, performance, and
sexual empowerment.
She spent seven years as theproducer and lead anchor of
Naked News and went on to createand produce the Red Umbrella
(03:20):
Talk, a series unpacking therealities of sex work.
Laura is also an adult industryexpert certified intimacy
coordinator, pleasure educator,and activist.
She now leads Eros Unbound, aconventional erotic reading
event that celebratesvulnerability, performance, and
(03:40):
desire that sounds amazing.
With experience spanningeducation, advocacy, and
performance, Laura has becomeone of the most articulate
voices on what it really meansto be seen.
And we are unpacking theexhibitionism kink.
Why it's misunderstood, how toexplore it safely, and why
(04:03):
sometimes the act of beingwatched is the most intimate
thing you can do.
But before we dive in, I want toremind you I'm over on OnlyFans
and there.
I'm sharing my sex and intimacyhow-tos and demos, an
audio-guided self-pleasuremeditations.
I'm also offering sort of anintro to sex and intimacy
(04:24):
coaching.
You can ask me your one-offquestions there.
I'm also on Substack doing awhole lot of the same, minus the
coaching and of course thedemos.
And you can find me in bothplaces by my handle at TalkSex
withinet.
Of course, you can scroll downto the notes section in this
episode.
And you're going to find linksto everywhere you want to find
me.
I can't wait to see you there.
(04:44):
But for now, I would love tohand the mic over.
Laura, can you tell my listenerssome more about you?
SPEAKER_02 (04:53):
Thank you so much for having me on this show.
I'm in awe of you and thissubject.
It's not just something that Iwould call myself an expert of.
It's something that I callmyself the ultimate
exhibitionist.
So my years of experience inboth performance and curating
experiences, I have reallyexplored this, this kink, this
(05:17):
identity for myself.
So I'm really excited to chattoday.
SPEAKER_00 (05:22):
I can't wait to hear what you say about it.
It's come up off and on in myown intimate life.
And I'm hoping our conversationis actually going to give me
opportunity to understand itbetter for myself and figure out
if it is something I'm into.
So, guys, you're going to wantto stay to the end because, like
me, you are going to have anopportunity to learn more about
(05:43):
this kink.
Figure out if it's somethingthat you might be into, or if
you've had an inkling this issomething you're into, by the
end of this episode, you'regoing to have a go bag of tips,
tricks for how to reallyinitiate it in your own intimate
life, or how to talk to apartner about it.
So I am ready to dive in.
(06:05):
How about you, Laura?
SPEAKER_02 (06:06):
I'm so ready.
SPEAKER_00 (06:08):
Cheers.
Let's talk about exhibitionism.
Cheers.
All right.
I am gonna dive in with theopposite.
This is I'm gonna dive in withuh the obvious because this is a
101.
We're starting with a basic.
So what is exhibitionism?
SPEAKER_02 (06:28):
Exhibitionism.
It's the sexual gratificationfound in being watched, being
observed, ideally, when we arein a sensual domain or when
we're in a celebratory state ofourselves.
It's tied to worship.
It is tied to performance, butit really is that supreme joy
(06:49):
and that arousal in havingsomeone watch us when we are in
an intimate moment withourselves or others.
SPEAKER_00 (06:59):
So a lot of listeners, when they hear
exhibitionism, might just thinkof the creepy guy flashing
people, right?
Because that was the first thingthat came to mind for me.
But could you help explain whatall this can encompass outside
of that?
SPEAKER_02 (07:18):
It's so unfortunate that as a society, we've, of
course, attached this negativeconnotation, this like ick and
creep factor to exhibitionism.
It really is an experience ofconfidence and displaying
confidence because a lot of thetimes we actually fear or have a
bit of a nervous anxiety aroundbeing watched, being observed,
(07:40):
being surveilled in a way, withthis idea that we're being seen,
perhaps in moments that we'renot composed or not entirely
ready to be watched.
But there's a group of us thathave this extreme joy and thrill
in being watched.
So when it comes to the sexualarena, exhibitionism is quite
literally wanting to shareaspects of yourself, the
(08:03):
physicality of yourself, thepleasure that you experience for
others to watch.
So, you know, it could be you oryou and your partner attending a
play party and having a bunch ofpeople as spectators watching
you go at the pursuit ofpleasure.
You might also be a contentcreator, and maybe you like to
make content that's then sold ormade available to your viewing
(08:27):
audience.
And then you've got both thesubscribers you're in touch with
and the anonymous appeal ofbeing viewed en masse by people.
But exhibitionism could evenjust be I want you to look at
the outfit I chose to put ontoday.
And maybe that means I'll framemyself in the doorway just a
little bit longer before I movethrough it to enter the room.
(08:48):
Maybe I'll find that light inthe room and give you a look.
It comes with a body posture, aninvitation to be seen.
You know, when people hold theirshoulders back and stand at
their ultimate height, they wantyou to see them.
And so you get a lot of theselittle signals as to who might
be somewhere on the scale ofexhibitionism, be it a light
exhibitionist that maybe has aknack for style and wants you to
(09:12):
take it in, but it could go asfar as yes, that person that
wants to be center stage at theplay party with a whole crew of
people around watching, adoring,just observing them in that
splendor of pleasure.
SPEAKER_00 (09:27):
This brings me to what are some signs one might be
an exhibitionist?
Because I have been asked.
I create content, obviously.
I enjoy with a partner takingphotos.
I enjoy sharing photos.
But when asked if I'm intoexhibitionism, I'm like, I don't
(09:49):
think so.
But I guess I don't really know.
Perhaps you can walk me throughwhat some signs would be.
SPEAKER_02 (09:58):
Some signs would certainly be, like I said, first
and foremost, the stature andbody language, the posture that
comes when you're in the spacewith another person who may or
may not be an exhibitionist,someone that stands with that
tall confidence.
They're saying to you, I likehow I look and I want you to see
it.
So that's usually a greatindicator.
Sometimes an exhibitionist alsojust has this streak of
(10:21):
confidence that's going to sayto you, there'll be cues like,
Don't you like this, what I'mwearing?
Have a look at this.
They'll use a lot of cues thatactually draw your eyes to the
places.
And they're also people thatwould be the first ones on a
dance floor.
They are people that would verylikely want to show you the
elements that are a little bitmore concealed on their outfit.
(10:42):
Maybe they want to share withyou a little bit.
You'll see them lift a pant legto show an anklet or a piece of
jewelry.
So folks that are very willingto say, have eyes on me, are
likely somewhere on that scaleof exhibitionists.
That is the essence of it at itsboiled-down core, is that we
want to be looked at.
So if they're the first ones ona dance floor, there's a good
(11:02):
chance that they are anexhibitionist.
SPEAKER_00 (11:05):
But how does it show up in activities in the sex
space, in the intimate space?
SPEAKER_02 (11:15):
This is a really, it's a big indicator, is one of
the most classic aspects of howwe set the stage for sexuality
and for sexual play.
Do we want the lights outcompletely?
Or are we okay to be visible toeach other?
There are a lot of folks thatwant to close their eyes, have
all the lights shut off, andthat's how they feel safe
(12:36):
exploring their pleasure andtheir sexual selves.
And if that's something thatworks for them, I applaud it.
There's nothing wrong with that.
But you'll see folks that wantthe lights turned on, or at
least to a degree where they'resaying, hey, look at me, people
that want to wear veryattention-grabbing bedroom
couture, lingerie, or differentrobes, kimonos, lace gear,
(12:58):
leather gear, fetish gear.
People that own these items andwant to incorporate them into
their intimate play, they wantto be seen.
They want it to be looked at,they want to draw attention to
how they're presentingthemselves.
So I would say a big part of itreally is remaining visible.
A lot of people like that act ofseduction that includes
something like a strip tease orsome element of observe me from
(13:52):
a distance and worship it.
And that is the exhibitionistthat enjoys that the most.
I want someone to bloom all ofthat saliva and foam.
I want them to be drooling.
And it's the way I've lived mylife, my entire life, from
burlesque to where I am now.
I've grown such a passion andcomfort in owning this part of
(14:13):
my identity.
And it really is a source ofjust endless confidence in every
other aspect of my life.
I would challenge people tomaybe try it on for size and see
what it feels like to play thatpart of the exhibitionist, even
in a role play.
And I'm sure we'll get to thatin some of our tips and some of
our ways to incorporate thatinto your lives.
SPEAKER_00 (14:37):
Is it something you nurtured?
Because I can acknowledgeaspects of this in my life, but
I definitely came from I wasraised in a religion and a
household that was conservative.
It took a lot to get over issueswith my body and being
self-conscious.
And of course, the more I'vefallen in love with my body and
(14:59):
the more that I've shed some ofthat shame, the more I'm like,
definitely need the lights onduring sex.
I'm not missing out on thatshow.
And so I'm curious with you,especially at the level at which
you have embraced this and donethis, right?
Yeah.
Were you always that way?
SPEAKER_02 (15:19):
What you're saying is such a universal story.
I think a lot of us will findour own experiences in that
wrestling match with feelinggood about our bodies.
And I am certainly one of thosestories.
I'm six feet tall, which meansI'm hard to ignore.
I am not one of those curvygirls.
We're living in a very curvygirl era, right?
(15:39):
Where we're seeing a lot ofemphasis put on what's the size
of your ass?
What are the size of your tits?
What is that ratio between hipand waist, all of that
ridiculous pressure that seemsto be mounting in society.
And I hope coming to an end,quite honestly.
I want to see us continue toembrace just how varied bodies
are, and that it really shouldbe more about a confidence that
(16:00):
we have as opposed to thespecific specs of a person.
I grew up being bullied as lankyand uncoordinated as I am.
I remember growing up being justthis big sort of beanstalk of a
person and being bullied for itfor not having development in
places that other young womenwere having in, say, high
(16:21):
school.
So I remember a lot of thatfeeling of, oh no, maybe I'm not
worth anything.
And I was a dance student for somuch of my life.
And a lot of our bodies willtake.
If you're a dancer, a gymnast,you get a good muscle build,
you're really lean, you usuallyhave some great flexibility in
there.
I had to use dance as a way ofseeing what my body could do as
(16:44):
opposed to what my body was.
I turned down having a modelingcareer.
I wasn't interested in pursuingthat because very young, when
you are a tall person, you arepoached by agencies.
And I was.
And in my late teens, I realizedI don't think I want to go down
that path because if I didn'tlike the bullying I had in high
school, I'm gonna hate thebullying that continues in
(17:06):
making a life out of my bodybeing a product.
I had years where I wasn'tpursuing anything in adult or
anything in entertainment.
And I needed those years.
I was a Phillips student.
I wanted to make movies, and Ineeded those years of finding my
identity and what made mespecial.
And then returning to thecelebration of body through
(17:29):
burlesque.
So in my early 20s, I get intoburlesque and I learn about this
art form that is so celebratoryof attitude, not just
measurements, not just how gooddo your tits look in a push-up
bra, but how do you move andwhat is the story you're
telling?
And so that, quite honestly, forme, was the origin of this
(17:50):
exhibitionism that became a wayof life was I felt an energy in
those moments on stage.
I felt the greatest joy and thereason to live, dare I say.
It felt so fabulous to be outthere on stage and to use some
of my given gifts of movementand try my best at costuming,
(18:12):
which was never great.
I was horrendous at puttingcostumes together.
But that for me was a great partof my story, a great part of my
path that made me fall in lovewith myself.
Because further down the line,of course, I become the anchor
of a naked TV show where onereally is forced to confront
that criticism of their bodybecause I am entering a
(18:35):
professional field where youhave to look a certain way.
And I received so much critiquefrom my producer above me, who
quite honestly would send mescreenshots of my ass,
screenshots of my butt, and say,we have to do something about
this.
He would send me screenshots ofmy body and certain outfits
(18:57):
because we'd start an episode ofNaked News fully dressed, and
you remove the clothing as yougo.
And so it really forced me togrow a thick skin that said,
you're missing the point.
You're missing the point thatI'm in Jamaica interviewing a
sex educator about how toapproach sexual liberation for
adults with autism.
(19:17):
Like that to me is the goalmineof the work itself, is that what
we put into the program was soexciting that to be discounted
as to what just our bodieslooked like was ultimately part
of my breaking point for leavingthe show.
But I'm no stranger to it.
And I think a lot of women havethat experience in their life on
(19:39):
very different scales, whetherit's a restaurant job that you
couldn't get because you didn'twant to wear the uniform they
wanted you to wear.
So it's an age-old thing, isn'tit?
SPEAKER_00 (19:48):
Yeah.
So just in this conversation sofar, what has surprised me is
the definition of exhibitionismand how it looks even as far as
we've gotten into the bedroom,ways in which you can start
exploring yourself to figure outif this is something you can
play with in your intimate life.
(20:11):
And before we dive into thebedroom, what I want to ask you
is this from the conversationwe're having, it sounds like to
me that even exploringexpositionism and how you hold
your body, how you look at yourbody, it can also be used as a
(20:32):
tool for empowerment,self-acceptance, and self-love.
Is that correct?
SPEAKER_02 (20:39):
That is such a fit.
And I love making thatconnection for people because
again, you hear exhibitionismand we go, oh my God, it's that
guy with the trench coat that'sjust gonna be flashing you on
the street, right?
No, it comes with a requiredconfidence if you want to really
explore exhibitionism, becausewhat we're doing is we're
bearing ourselves entirely.
(21:00):
Sometimes it's just the body andthe nakedness, but sometimes
it's actually the act ofpursuing pleasure and the
physicality in the bedroom,right?
So it does require you to beable to feel yourself, to feel
the strength of yourself, tofeel the pride you have for your
body and for who you are withinit, because that's what animates
it, right?
(21:20):
We've all got these bodies, butit's also how we animate them.
Because you look at some of thefamous burlesque performers
throughout the ages, I think ofGypsy Rose Lee, who in the 1930s
and 40s would spend 20 minutesunbuttoning a glove and would
have a room of audience justabsolutely transfixed in this
(21:42):
trance because the way thefingers would command the eyes,
the way the hands would luretowards the body, as we're
waiting button by button, all ofthat's within your power.
But how are you animating it?
That's what's to explore.
SPEAKER_00 (21:57):
So let's jump into how can people start exploring
exhibitionism in the bedroom.
We're gonna start with dippingthe toe in the water and then
move into fully swimming in theexhibitionism experience.
SPEAKER_02 (22:11):
A lot of people are gonna have a curiosity am I an
exhibitionist or not?
This is great and it's a perfectstarting point.
I would not recommendimmediately bringing in an
audience.
Sometimes we think, oh gosh,there's this desire, and I know
it requires someone watching me,so I have to find someone to
watch me.
That's not true.
First and foremost, do you havea full-length mirror in your
room?
(22:31):
Because you're gonna perform toit.
You're going to take a good lookat yourself in whatever outfit
you enjoy the most, whateverunderwear you enjoy the most.
And then, of course, your nakedselves.
That's something you have toconfront.
That's something you have totake in.
And a good way of examining howwe feel about our bodies and
exhibitionism is to quiteliterally stand in that
(22:52):
full-length mirror and look fromhead to toe.
And as we're scanning the body,are we reaching judgment points?
Are we looking going, oh God, myneck, not what it should be.
Maybe I should get thatNefertiti necklace.
Oh, my shoulders, God, they'renot defined.
Oh, my boobs are lower than Iremember them.
That's not going to do us anyfavors here.
We have to look up and down thebody as honestly as possible and
(23:16):
find love in there.
Because there is so much.
If you can stand upright, youshould be proud of yourself.
Not everyone can.
So I would say first andforemost, take a look at
yourself, spend time withyourself.
One of the most powerfulexercises that I remember
learning as a beginner inburlesque, something that helped
me really confirm, yes, I likethis.
Yes, I love me, was the verysimple act of standing in front
(23:39):
of my mirror, putting on myfavorite song.
And what you do is you take yourhands and pretend you're forming
a lather of soap, as if you'rein the shower and you need to
get those suds going.
And all you're gonna do for thenext song lengths is wash
yourself.
It's all miming.
We're not actually in the showerdoing this, but it activates
(24:00):
every part of the body, not justwhat so many women and so many
humans think they're worth.
How hard are my abs, how big ismy ass.
That's not what this is about.
What it's about is taking thisfictional lather and putting it
all over the body.
And what you're doing is you'respreading this permission to
touch, this sensual act offeeling ourselves and perhaps
(24:21):
spreading love to ourselves.
And you're also learning how tomove at the exact same time
because that song is playing andyou can't help but be rhythmic
to it.
So it's a little ritual thathelped me understand, oh, I want
to show someone this.
I want to move like this at thispace, nice and slow, and I want
to celebrate myself for otherpeople's eyes.
(24:43):
So I always think that's a greatstarting point is to first and
foremost work with yourself.
Once you've gotten to thatpoint, the next graduating step,
now that we're in the modernage, and I can turn my cell
phone camera on and I can hitrecord, put that thing at a
distance.
Put it on the other side of theroom.
Do not hold it selfie style.
(25:03):
Free yourself from the device,put it somewhere in the room and
just walk in front of it, movein front of it, dance in front
of it, get undressed slowly infront of it and give it a full
360.
And then afterwards you're gonnawatch that tape back and say, Do
I like what I see?
These are great ways of justgetting yourself familiar with
the act of being watched, andyou're not running the risk of,
(25:27):
oh God, I embarrassed myself infront of someone.
Oh no, I made it awkward anduncomfortable because we all
fear that, right?
And when we're being vulnerable,trying something new, the
chances are you might enter anawkward moment.
So get comfortable doing it withyourself for yourself first.
And then we've got the joy ofsaying to whomever is in your
(25:47):
life, be it a partner, be it aplaymate, you say to them, Hey,
I want to show you something.
Hey, I'm curious about myexhibitionist elements, my
exhibitionism and the curiosityaround it.
Can I show you something?
And that's where you get to takethe stage.
It could be, well, you're out atdinner, and maybe you say, I'm
(26:10):
gonna come back from thisbathroom and I'm gonna walk to
the table real slow.
Would you watch me?
Just find me in the room andwatch me.
Or I'm gonna come out of thatbathroom.
I've just had a shower and I'mgonna make my way to this bed.
Would you watch me?
It's not about, hey, I'm gonnastart touching myself and
performing a sex act.
No.
It's about I'm gonna dosomething that I know I'm
(26:32):
comfortable doing, and I wantyou to watch me.
And you don't permit immediatetouch.
Try and keep it silent, let itbe a visual exchange.
Because words, sometimes they'renot gonna know what to say, and
then you're not gonna know whatto say.
Take a vow of silence and say, Ijust want to be watched.
Start there.
SPEAKER_00 (26:50):
I love that you bring uh putting off the
compliments.
SPEAKER_02 (26:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:55):
Because even if your partner or the lucky person
thinks they're saying somethingpositive.
If you're in a vulnerable state,I don't know anyone else, but I
can twist a thing to meansomething negative.
I'm feeling even a little bitvulnerable or insecure.
(27:17):
But it also takes you out of thestate of being up into your head
and thinking about everythingthat's going on instead, just
letting it be that beingwitnessed, that's truly being
witnessed with it stayingsilent.
SPEAKER_02 (27:31):
Take the words away.
That can be such a pressuringmoment for both the giver and
the receiver.
How do I compliment this personin a moment that feels so
special, so surreal, sopowerful, so electric.
Finding those words is hard.
It's another one of my grandaffinities in life, however,
(27:51):
articulation and the search forthose words.
Buffett, in an exploration ofexhibitionism, I would not bring
in vocabulary, not in thoseearly days.
Make it a silent exchange sothat you're able to really feel
eyes on you and not getdistracted by that compliment
wasn't good enough.
And I'm really pissed off thatthey didn't notice I'm wearing a
(28:12):
thong today instead of afullback cotton panty.
It's like that can beoverwhelming.
The person receiving your showof exhibitionism, your
invitation to watch them, thatmight be a lot for them.
They might feel overwhelmedwatching you in this new form.
Maybe they don't know this sideof you.
They likely don't.
If it's brand new, they don'tknow it.
(28:34):
So putting the pressure forwords in can be a little a
little too much for the earlydays.
I would say hold off on that.
SPEAKER_00 (28:41):
What do you do?
Let's say with one of theexercises you talked about
earlier with the mirror work.
What happens when you do thatscan and you do hit those points
of criticism, self-critcriticism, or just feeling like
you look at a part of your bodyand you're like, oh, repulsed,
(29:03):
or other people will berepulsed.
SPEAKER_02 (29:07):
It changes day to day, right?
There are some days where youlook at that body, especially
women that live with a mooncycle and whatnot.
Like there are days where wejust feel invincible.
And then there are days where wego, really?
A pimple?
I'm 36 years old.
I can't even look myself in theface right now.
And that's a reality.
(29:28):
So when that comes up for you,stop drop and care for yourself.
Quite literally.
Like in that moment, you have tobe kind to yourself.
If you start critiquing, it'sthe same as if you start popping
that pimple, you're gonna makeit worse.
So what you need to do isactually care for yourself.
If you're in that mirror and yougo, oh, I just don't like the
look of that, do something nicefor yourself.
Whether it's get into a hotshower and say that's enough for
(29:50):
tonight, whether it's get intobed and turn on some TV, maybe
you need some rest, maybe youneed a meal, maybe you need to
feed yourself.
Clearly, there's something therethat needs to be tended to.
Obviously, there's a whole longhistory that we have of being
such heavy critics of our nakedbodies and attaching shame to
the witnessing of ourselves inthe naked form.
(30:13):
I always advise if people dofeel it's an ongoing struggle,
this is something you might wantto talk to either a sex coach
about or your therapist about.
Just say, hey, this is coming upfor me.
I'm starting to notice that Idon't like my own body.
I'm looking at my own body and Ican't find something to
celebrate, or I'm really stuckon this one thing.
Because it could just be, youknow what?
(30:34):
You needed to take care ofyourself, or maybe you needed to
see what your body can do.
So, what are some of yourfavorite activities?
It could be a hobby like makingart of some kind.
It could be going to the gym.
Remind yourself what your bodycan do the moment that you find
something that your body isfailing you at, because I
guarantee it's not failing youat it.
You're just in a bad headspace.
(30:56):
And that can be really hard totalk ourselves out of.
I've been there, I've been thereso many times, especially under
stress.
SPEAKER_00 (31:03):
Absolutely.
Every other day I find myselflike, come on, you look good,
you're okay.
Just calm down.
All right, so you've done themirror work, you have pranced
around in front of your partner,and you're like, uh, I like
this.
Let's elevate this to the nextlevel.
(31:24):
What would the next level ofexhibitionism look like?
SPEAKER_02 (31:29):
The next level would be making a sex tape with your
partner for yourselves.
Whether or not they are theexhibitionist as well, they
might not be, but there'ssomething about you enjoying
sharing yourself in this way.
So ask your partner, hey, how doyou feel about us recording
ourselves?
Who owns the content?
Where does the content go?
Are we sharing it with eachother?
(31:50):
So please try and iron those outahead of time.
If you are the exhibitionist andyou're the one that wants this
content, maybe you guys watch itand delete it.
Maybe you watch it and share it.
But I would say the next stepwould be either putting a mirror
above your damn bed or filming asex tape with your partner,
doing it with your partner,filming yourself in a more
(32:10):
graduated, sensual way.
Maybe you're starting topleasure yourself.
Maybe you're playing a littlebit more intentionally to a
camera.
You'll see, again, I stillhaven't brought someone in yet.
I'm going to in the next step.
I have not brought someone inyet, though, because I really
think it's important that weminimize the danger.
That's a big part of myphilosophy in all sex activism
(32:34):
and pleasure politics, is thatwe want to minimize the dangers.
And so I always say to people,urgency is the death of agency.
That's something I learned in myintimacy coordination education.
When we make rash decisions veryquickly, we oftentimes have not
thought through thosepotentials.
And it's not about hunkeringdown and spending a year
(32:55):
considering it.
But ask yourself in all of thepotentials, do I feel confident
and excited to do this?
Because if there's a no comingup somewhere, then don't do it.
So I still am saying, we havenot invited another person yet
to watch.
Take it to that sexual level.
So either film yourself or filmyou and your partner, watch it
back.
How does that feel?
Do you like it?
Do you like which is it gettingyou off?
(33:17):
Are you getting excited by it?
Great.
I have a next step ready foryou.
Are you ready, Annette?
I am ready.
unknown (33:23):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (33:23):
I'm ready.
SPEAKER_00 (33:24):
I made the video and I'm like, God, I really know how
to do that, don't I?
SPEAKER_02 (33:28):
Yes.
And there are options here.
But if you want to startentering the public sphere, and
this means attending liveevents, first and foremost, if
you are a beginner to live sexparties or erotic parties,
however they want to callthemselves, you need to know
some of the basics here.
Okay.
It is not necessary that youinvolve with other people
(33:50):
attending the party.
So maybe you're ready to take itto a public place.
You want to attend a party,depending on what city you're
in.
I'm in New York.
In New York, there are so manyplay parties and amazing
opportunities to be watched inthis way.
See if check your online forumsand online communities for who
might be hosting these kinds ofevents.
(34:12):
Do a little research.
Find out who's a member.
Find out who already attendsthese.
If you're getting good feedbackabout it, you've got nothing to
lose.
Attend one of these events andmaybe go in as the voyeur.
That's the other thing.
We might say, I'm anexhibitionist, I'm ready to be
watched.
Go in and play voyeur.
You have to see the other sideof it before you dive in.
If it's your first experience,go in and really see what it
(34:35):
feels like for others to bewatching, for others to be on
display.
Is that something?
Is it still affirming yourdesire for exhibitionism?
Or are you starting to realize Ijust like being watched by my
partner?
I just like being watched in thesafety of my home.
So don't go into the partyattendance saying, we are going
tonight and we're finding thatelevated platform with the
(34:56):
spotlight and it is ours fortonight.
We're putting on a show allnight long.
Don't guarantee that foryourself because you're going to
go in and feel that pressure.
And if it's your first time, youmight not know what that
atmosphere feels like, lookslike, interacts with you like.
So I would say plan yourattendance to go in and witness.
Take a look.
What does it look like to seeother exhibitionists in that
(35:17):
glory?
Do you feel like I want to getup there?
Oh, I want everyone to watch me.
If that is ringing like aresounding yes, then you found
yourself the place to be.
But it might also be that youwant to curate a party.
Maybe you want a smaller groupof people, trusted friends,
(35:37):
like-minded individuals, and youwant to throw that one.
Or you want to throw a houseparty.
You want to invite folks to comein and witness this thing.
Now you can have fun with thisand say, you guys are our
audience.
But you can also go into it andsay, We all might play.
Play is open and available toall, right?
Again, hosting a party is a verybig different endeavor, though.
(36:00):
So if you don't have experiencewith it, you want to be sure you
know what you're doing.
How do you equip your space fora play party or even to bring
people in to witness you?
Do you want to check cell phonesand not let them have theirs?
Do you want to supply any of thenecessary items, sanitizers,
cleaners, condoms, lubes?
These are things you have toconsider.
So I would say first andforemost, attend a live event
(36:23):
and go in to watch.
Play the voyeur for a night, seewhat it feels like.
SPEAKER_00 (36:28):
I love that.
And also I think important tonote is each venue, if from my
experience, each venue or sexclub and sex party, the clubs
are always gonna be there, butthey all have their own feel.
The people who attend thedifferent clubs will tend to fit
(36:49):
into different groups, right?
Yeah.
One club may be more queerfriendly, one club may be mostly
swingers, one club may be morealigned with this
heteronormativity.
So it also might be good to youif the first one goes well.
Or even if it doesn't, if you goto one and you're like, maybe
(37:11):
try more than one.
SPEAKER_02 (37:12):
Yeah.
And that's all part of it,right?
Some of that background researchis so important because even
things like the atmosphere ofthe space itself, some of the
clubs are very dark and dim, andeveryone in attendance likes to
wear masquerade.
But some of them are verylively, and you've got lights of
all kinds of colors, and you'vegot a drum and bass mix going,
(37:35):
and you've got one massive bedas opposed to smaller allocated
bedrooms.
So there are so many variationsof play parties.
And I would say try a bunch ofthem on for size, right?
If this is something you'reenjoying and you're having good
experiences, and again, going inwith that no-pressure approach
of, hey, we don't necessarilyhave to go in and play.
(37:57):
Now be open to what your partneris also going to be experiencing
if you're attending withsomeone, because I do think that
is a very important element,right?
You want to be checking in withyour partner every step of the
way after every one of theseadventures.
Hey, we're going to go to thisparty tonight.
Ask them, how did that feel foryou?
If you're partnered, how does itfeel for your partner to have
(38:19):
everyone else look at you?
Now, obviously, it's up to you.
I'm not going to say to you,abide by their rules 100% of who
can look at your body and howthat feels like old-world,
dangerous, archaic behavior.
I don't love that.
But still, you want to beconsiderate of their feelings.
And if it's advancing at a ratethat's a little too fast, you
might start finding a distancebetween each other.
(38:40):
And that's what we don't want.
So check in along the way.
Hey, how did that feel for otherpeople to be looking at me?
Because maybe you're attendingin your lingerie.
Maybe you're taking all yourclothes off and the two of you
want to walk around naked.
How did that feel for otherpeople to be looking at my body?
And then ask yourself, how didit feel for other people to be
looking at your body?
SPEAKER_00 (38:59):
Well, that's interesting too.
In my mind, I was thinking, oh,exhibitionism would be if you
were playing and people werewatching.
But it could be just you wear,you go in a trench coat, take it
off, and you have lingerie underthat you're wearing there and
people are seeing you in thatlingerie.
SPEAKER_02 (39:17):
Sure.
There are people that attendthese events and stay fully
dressed.
There are people that come in anevening gown and then later
through the night, halfwaythrough, they're in lingerie.
And then another 20 minuteslater, they're fully naked.
That's the options here is thatyou can dress yourself and
reveal yourself however youwish.
SPEAKER_00 (39:35):
So it could be perhaps that exhibitionism for
you is mostly just wanting to beseen, seen.
(40:40):
And another type ofexhibitionism could be that you
want to be seen, but also youwant to be seen while having
pleasure.
But it doesn't necessarily haveto be both.
Like you could just enjoy thebeing seen, but you're like, I
have to do my sexy stuff inprivate.
Absolutely.
Or it could then be both.
SPEAKER_02 (41:01):
Absolutely.
Those are within that gradientscale of exhibitionism, right?
Sometimes people say, hey, Ijust want to be that sparkling
Swarovski swan that's on thatlittle platform with all the
spotlights.
I just want to be looked at.
And that's absolutely fine inyour solo brilliance and glory.
When we're talking about thesexual play of exhibitionism,
(41:21):
we're talking about, I want youto watch me getting pleasure.
I want you to watch me maybeeven getting pain.
Maybe me getting degraded inways.
This is all within it, right?
Because there's also the kinkside of exhibitionism where some
people say, I want you to seewhat I can endure.
I want you to see how far Isubmit.
I want you to see how much I cantake.
(41:45):
And so it's not always aboutbeing this brilliant, dominant,
untouchable queen of a creature.
Sometimes it is about witness mein all the variations of my
sexual identity and my sexualplay.
And that's what I love about it,right?
I love witnessing an amazingBDSM scene where this submissive
(42:05):
just wants you to watch whatthey can take.
It is incredible.
I sometimes I just find myselfin total awe and I go, yeah, I
couldn't do that.
I would tap out at this point.
I'm impressed.
I'm thoroughly impressed by thisindividual.
That happens.
SPEAKER_00 (42:20):
Exhibitionism in that case could even just be
(43:25):
between a couple and the sub, inthis case, is one example
wanting to be seen by their domand how much they can take.
It's the being witnessed of.
That's a form of exhibitionism.
SPEAKER_02 (43:42):
Absolutely.
And when it's done against theirwill and desire or against
hesitation, that can lean intosome of that humiliation.
But sometimes even people thatwant to be seen in this
submissive state where they'retaking an enormous amount of
pain or an enormous amount ofimpact play, they enjoy that
you're watching them be treatedlike this.
(44:03):
Exhibitionism is just saying, Iwant you to see me in my sexual
rawness.
I want you to see me in mysexual potency of who I am.
I want you to see me in all theglory of who I am while in the
pursuit of pleasure, to mydefinition of it.
SPEAKER_00 (44:20):
Now, for those who want crowd control, what about
situations where people enjoyhaving sex in a car in a more
public place?
That's also a form ofexhibitionism, correct?
SPEAKER_02 (44:36):
Yeah, public play does certainly exist in the
realm of exhibitionism.
I cannot condone it in spaceswhere it's not permitted, but my
goodness, do you have a bountyof locations in our modern world
that cater to this specifically?
You've got Cap Dag, which is anentire village of nudity and
sexual freedom.
(44:57):
You've got hedonism in thegrill, Jamaica, you've got
desire in in Mexico, in Cancun.
So there are so manydestinations where if your
desire is to be watched in amore public, natural setting,
like on a beach or in anightclub, or in your hotel room
with all the windows open andthe blinds pulled back, there
(45:19):
are places to do that whereyou're not interfering with
other people's preferences orother people's freedoms to say,
I don't want to see that.
That's why unfortunately wecan't, no matter how hot I think
it is, I would think it's veryhot at a very, let's call it
bumper to bumper trafficsituation.
Yeah, I'd love to slip into thebackseat and just enjoy myself.
That would be amazing.
Unfortunately, in our world,it's not a it's not a green
(45:43):
light.
SPEAKER_00 (45:44):
And the reason we would say this so that people
know, because I have to tellyou, over the course of my sex
life, I've had so many partnersask, Well, do you want to go and
do it in this place where wemight get caught?
And that definitely isn't mything.
Like, I don't that that I'm justlike, no, thank you.
So maybe saying why it's a no,it takes away someone else's
(46:07):
opportunity to say no.
It forces people to seesomething that they don't want
to.
SPEAKER_02 (46:14):
At that point, I wonder, are we even talking
exhibitionism?
Because you're talking aboutgetting caught.
So there's a desire or anexcitement around being found,
being discovered, and thenbeing, I guess, in the act where
we're not supposed to be.
It's more of a desire for a rulebreak as opposed to a desire to
(46:36):
just be witnessed.
It's this desire to be caught.
And yeah, that can be extremelyexciting.
And there's a number ofsingle-stall bathrooms across
many of your metropolis cities.
Why not sneak your partner intoone of them and enjoy yourself?
And then the two of you exit atthe same time.
And that should be excitementenough that the two of you are
exiting from that bathroomtogether.
(46:58):
You know what I mean?
There's workarounds for thisthat aren't going to get you
necessarily in legal dangerbecause no one should be
composing or conductingthemselves in that way.
I think that's a little bit, alittle selfish, let's say.
SPEAKER_00 (47:10):
Right.
And I like your workaroundthough.
That's again, that probablywouldn't be my thing, but it's
interesting how you can takedifferent situations that one
might want to experience andthen find something that works
for it without putting anybodyelse in a weird situation or
landing you in jail.
That answered my question.
(47:30):
That doesn't really fit in theexhibitionism realm, then that's
not really what it's about.
Interesting.
unknown (47:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:39):
All right.
We've taken y'all and myselffrom entry level.
I'm definitely past entry level.
I've sent videos and picturesand so on and so forth.
But like how you can step it upand see how it feels to you.
Do you have any advice you wantto share from here on trying out
(48:03):
or discovering exhibitionism?
SPEAKER_02 (48:05):
Yeah.
It's a very exciting journey.
But what I will say to everybodyis do not sacrifice your own
pleasure and listen to mecarefully, okay?
When we enter a performativerealm and we are being watched,
there is that invitation ofpressure, let's say, to give
(48:27):
them a show.
And that can be fun.
But if you start faking thingsand you start losing your access
to that orgasm, because maybeyou like everything except that
face you make when you climax,do not lose that ability.
That's what the potential ishere.
And I know that soundsabsolutely ridiculous, but it's
(48:48):
a real thing.
If you start only having thisperformative sex where you're
getting this feeling of likeapplause for what you do, you
might start to be performing forthem as opposed to continuing
your authenticity and continuingthat sexual rawness.
(49:08):
So that's like a reason why I'veput up some walls in my own
content creation and my ownperformance demand as a content
creator, is that I don't want tolose that availability to my own
orgasm.
I don't want to start conflatinga performative orgasm with what
my true, raw, real orgasm looks,feels, and sounds like.
(49:30):
So don't lose that along theway.
If you're starting to get reallyaffirmed by an audience, maybe
at these parties and peoplestart saying, hey, it's those
two.
They put on a great show.
You know, that whole showbizelement can become a pressure.
Are you still being authentic inyour pursuit of pleasure?
Because trust me, doingacrobatic circuit-soleil-styled
(49:50):
sex is very exciting and fun towatch, but it's not always the
thing that gets you off.
So make sure that you are stillgetting off the way that you
need to get off.
Even if that means you lay,you're laying on your back and
you're hardly moving and someoneelse is doing all the work, or
you're it's a quiet sound, orit's an ugly sound, or it's a
large and ridiculous explosionthat might need an exorcism.
(50:14):
Good.
Make sure that you still haveaccess to it.
Do not become desensitizedbecause the thrill of people
watching has forced you toperform for them.
SPEAKER_00 (50:26):
Yeah, the high you can get from the applause can
sometimes get confused with thatenergetic orgasm that you're
going to experience in your bodyfrom actual pleasure.
There's kind of two differenttypes of pleasure happening
there.
And one definitely makesorgasming a little bit, at least
in my case, maybe not foreverybody.
(50:48):
I know there are plenty of womenwho have orgasms easily.
I am not blessed in that way.
So performance can definitelykeep me from orgasming.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (50:59):
So I'd say keep like a solo, uh, a solo ritual and a
partnered ritual if you are in acouple or in a relationship
dynamic.
Keep that active along with allof the fun, performative
exhibitionism that you'reexploring.
Just make sure that you're stillmaintaining access to yourself
and your authenticity along theway.
(51:20):
We don't want to lose that.
SPEAKER_00 (51:22):
And there is truly nothing hotter than an authentic
orgasm, regardless of how itlooks.
When you can feel when you'rewith a partner and they have
that like incredible primalorgasm and it does not look like
anything you've ever seen on thesilver screen, you're just like,
oh, what the that's real.
That's so real.
(51:43):
Well the whole this wholeepisode has really been a
step-by-step for me and mylisteners.
But for someone who's okay, whatcan I start doing tonight?
What's something I can dotonight to kick this off?
Or how do I bring this up withmy partner?
What is your advice?
SPEAKER_02 (52:04):
Step number one, look at yourself in the mirror,
okay?
Make it between you andyourself.
Look at everything.
When was the last time youlooked at your genitalia and
really looked at it?
Right.
So take in that full,encompassing, embracing look at
yourself in your entirewholeness.
Step number one.
Step number two, you want to sayto your partner, guess what?
(52:24):
I've got this discovery burningup inside of me, and I want to
find ways to begin exploring it.
Here's what I'm thinking.
I would like you to watch me.
And then, like I said, make itsimple.
Either you're walking throughthe room or you're dancing or
you're removing your clothes, oryou're performing the most
exciting self-pleasure sceneanyone has ever brought to their
(52:47):
partner's real flesh attention.
Maybe start doing some researchof what live events you want to
attend.
See if there are some in yourcity, or if maybe it's a fun
vacation you could have if youare hitting a big city where
most of these events arehappening.
You've got calendars at theseclubs, you've got calendars of
events.
And so find one that indescription and in some, I
(53:10):
guess, discussions with otherpeople feel like a fit.
If it's a heavy bondage nightand you're not into bondage,
don't prioritize that one.
If it's a swingers night andyou're a single person, don't
prioritize that one.
Really look for that perfect fitof an event.
And you can ask questions toeither the people running the
(53:30):
event or the members of thatcommunity.
So if you're looking to makethose connections, again, a lot
of folks have an Instagram page.
If they have an Instagram page,find out who's following them.
Start to learn who's a part ofthat world and see if it's
something that you're interestedin jumping into.
SPEAKER_00 (53:45):
There you go, guys.
If you are curious, now you knowwhat are some signs you might be
into exhibitionism.
How do you dip your toe in thewater?
How do you dive in and startswimming?
This is a really good 101 foryou.
Thank you so much.
Now, can you tell my listenersall of the different places they
(54:10):
can find you if they want tofind out more about what you're
doing and how to get in touchwith you?
SPEAKER_02 (54:15):
You can find connections to everything that
I'm active within and everythingI'm creating at my website,
thelauradeseray.com.
Please do connect.
SPEAKER_00 (54:26):
Yeah, and you can of course scroll down to the notes
in this episode, and I'm gonnadrop that link there so you can
find out all of the really coolstuff that she is involved in.
An erotic club.
SPEAKER_02 (54:41):
Come find us at sanctum.com, snctm.com.
We would love to show you ourworld.
SPEAKER_00 (54:50):
Perfect.
All right, folks.
Here is yet another kink for youto explore because no kink
should be left unturned in yourlife.
You want to expand your accessto intimacy and play as much as
you can.
Let me know how your journeygoes.
(55:10):
Did you listen to this and say,hey, I think that might be my
thing?
I would love to find out if youhave questions or comments.
You can scroll down.
And if you're on my YouTubechannel at TalkSex with Annette,
you can drop a comment, send mea message in the comments
section below.
I would love to hear what youhave to say.
If you have questions, leavethem and I will work hard to get
(55:32):
them answered.
Thank you again, Laura, forjoining me.
I feel honored to have had thisconversation with you.
Thank you, Annette.
And until next time, listeners,I'll see you in the locker room.
Cheers.
Cheers.
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