Fisting, Safety, & Surrender: The Sex She Has To Trust You To Have

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
Do the sex pleasure and desire Around here.
Nothing's off limits.
These are the kinds ofconversations we save for our
boldest group chats, our mosttrusted friends and, of course,
the women's locker room.
Think raw, honest and sometimesunapologetically raunchy.
If you've been here from thebeginning, thank you, and if

(00:40):
you're new, welcome to mypodcast.
Where desire meets disruptionand pleasure becomes power.
Now let's talk about sex Cheers.
Today's Talk Sex with Annette.
Topic is fisting, the mostintimate sex act you've probably
been too afraid to ask about.

(01:00):
Let's talk about the sex act.
Most people are too nervous totry, but can't stop thinking
about it's intense, it'sintimate.
It's not what you think we'retalking about fisting.
You've probably seen it jokedabout in porn, whispered about
in kink spaces or written off astoo much.
But here's the truth.

(01:20):
Fisting done right isn't aboutshock.
It's about trust, surrender anda kind of pleasure that
stretches way beyond thephysical.
If you've ever thought that'stoo extreme, or I can never take
that, or wait, why wouldsomeone even want a whole hand
inside of them?
You're not alone.
But you might be missing out onone of the most connected,

(01:43):
expansive and, yes,mind-blowingly hot experiences
sex has to offer.
And today we're not justtalking about it.
We're giving you a how-to thatyou never got in sex ahead.
I'm joined by Chelsea Newton, aqueer, bisexual sex therapist
and a clinical social workerbased in Denver who helps people

(02:05):
explore kink, pleasure andsexual identity without shame.
She's warm, smart, no bullshit,and she gets why this kind of
sex deserves more than apunchline.
So if you're curious, turned onor just ready to finally
understand what all the deepdiving fuss is about, let's
slide in.
But before we do, I want toremind you you can find me over

(02:26):
on OnlyFans, where I am sharingmy sex and intimacy how-tos,
demonstrations, audio-guidedself-pleasure meditations and so
much more to help you starthaving better sex and intimacy
Tonight.
You can also find me over onSubstack doing a lot of the same
, and you can find me there witha handle at TalkSexWithAnnette.

(02:49):
You can also scroll down to thelinks in this episode and
you're going to find links toeverywhere you want to find me
below.
So now I'm going to hand themic over to Chelsea.
Chelsea, can you tell mylisteners a little bit more
about you before we slide intofisting?

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Chelsea, can you tell my listeners a little bit more
about you before we slide intofisting?
Yes, annette, thank you so muchfor having me back.
This was so much fun.
You really nailed it right.
Like I'm a queer, bisexual sextherapist who absolutely loves
nothing more than talking aboutthe thing that nobody else wants
to talk about, and I was reallyshocked when you told me that
nobody wants to do the fistingepisode.
I'm like, oh, I would love totalk about that.

(03:26):
I support clients who don'tknow who to talk to about the
thing that they're freaking outabout.
They don't have anybody elsethat they can talk to about it.
They come to me, and so I'mreally, really excited today to
talk about fisting, and I'm sureyou know who knows what else
will come up.
But thank you so much forhaving me.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Thank you for doing this.
This is an episode I've beenwanting to do for a long time,
and my longtime dedicatedlisteners have definitely heard
me talk about my experiencesfisting.
At least a little bit.
I kind of throw it in there,but I haven't had an opportunity
to dive into it, and that isexactly what we're going to do

(04:08):
today, folks.
So there is no better thing tohave over coffee in the morning
than a conversation aboutfisting.
So let's do it and let's talkabout fisting.
Cheers, cheers, let's go.
So let's start with the mostobvious question what exactly is
fisting?

Speaker 1 (04:47):
hopefully.
Yes, I think that people, whenyou say that or when they hear
fisting, they think about sortof uh, like a closed fist punch,
if you will, and the reality isis that it really doesn't have
to be that and it reallyshouldn't be that.
Unless you are really skilledin extreme BDSM, you know fist
fucking, which is somethingdifferent than I think.

(05:08):
What we're really talking abouttoday.
Fisting is really less of aclosed punched fist and more
about, like I like to call it,like the shadow puppet right or
like reaching into a Pringlescan is another way that I like
to talk about that.
Reaching into a Pringles can isanother way that I like to talk
about.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
That.
That's incredible.
This is funny because I had alittle bit of a debate going
with a woman friend interest ofmine.
We're talking about fisting andwe have an ongoing debate that
I was telling her today you weregoing to help put to rest for

(05:48):
us and she said that you wouldprobably agree that we were both
right.
But you know that she was alsoright and I'm like you're wrong.
I said fisting was the punchfist and she's like well, but
she did the four finger shadowpuppet.
I'm like okay, but for it to befisting, I think the fifth
finger has to be involved.
Oh, I lose, don't I?

Speaker 1 (06:12):
So so is the question like if we don't have all five
in, is it truly fisting?
Yes, oh, this is socontroversial.
You know what, though, I'mgoing to, I'm going to, I'm
going to answer.
I'm not going to do thetherapist-like non-answer answer
.
I'm going to answer.
If we're really talking aboutfisting, right, we're talking
about losing our hands fordigital sex.

(06:32):
We are talking about all fivedigits.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
All five.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
Okay, it doesn't mean that three or four or almost
five can't also be an amazingexperience, but if we're really
talking about fisting, sort ofthe way that I think about it is
like we're in sort of past theknuckle here and and there's
sort of like a hole at the wristin a way, you know that

(06:58):
happened.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
that to me is really, I'd say, like captures fisting
well, that's the magic of it,right that moment where it's
like you're inside and the handis inside.
Now I am going to say to thisperson, if you might be
listening, and to my listeners Ijust think if the pinky's

(07:20):
hanging out, you cannot callthat like.
You can't like the pinky, adigit can't be hanging out.
Now the digit hanging out couldbe really fun and tickle some
spots, but for me like to feellike I've fully fisted somebody.
I like want the whole hand inthere.
I also can own that in thisdebate I was a little bit wrong
because I really I was like fist, is fist meaning like a punch

(07:42):
fist, which I have experienceddoing to someone else?
And I always thought but I hearyou, we just got to get.
We got to get wrist deep,almost Right.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yeah, yeah, I think.
For it to be fist deep.
Yes, that's sort of thedifference Again, like if you're
just having amazing sex withyour hands, like digits, cool,
cool, cool, put as many digitsas you want, but if we're really
talking about Shae Sten, Ithink we really are talking
about it.
It could be a punch fest, right, but I think for the majority

(08:18):
of people that I work with it inmy experiences it's more of the
shadow puppet or the same waywe would reach into a Pringles
scan.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
Pringles can, pringles, can.
And just the look on your facewhen you, all right, dip your
fingers into the can, making mea little hungry.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
It doesn't actually look like this, folks.
This is me reaching into thePringles cans.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
For our listeners, not viewers.
She's literally reachingfingers into a invisible
imaginary Pringles can.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
It looks different than that and don't hurt your
wrist.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Right, definitely don't hurt your wrist, all right
.
So now my debate is put to rest.
And not only that, listeners,if you don't have a clear view
on what we're talking about, Imean, I feel like that explains
it.
You got to have your fivefingers in there.
You got to have the knuckles inthere.
You got to have the knuckles inthere.
And look, this isn't acompetition, right?

(09:08):
We are just trying to explainwhen it crosses over like
intense fingering and intofisting.
But I want to move on to themyths around fisting and sort of
the first impression whenpeople who have not experienced
it hear about it.
Can we dispel some of thebullshit around the concept of

(09:31):
fisting?

Speaker 1 (09:32):
oh yes, I mean, I think the obvious is that it's
really painful or that it'ssomehow violent, or that it will
ruin quote unquote, ruin yourvagina or your anus.
I think those are like thethree big ones that I think are
really common in terms offisting.

(09:53):
So you know, first and foremost, fisting should not be painful.
If you are engaging in fistingand you are experiencing pain,
that is a really good sign thatyou need to back off.
That is a really good sign thatmaybe today is a three-digit or

(10:14):
a four-digit kind of day andthat we're not going to get past
those knuckles, and that's okay.
Fisting should not hurt.
As a matter of fact, no sexshould hurt unless you are
engaging in some kind ofconsensual BDSM where you're
trying to inflict pain, andthat's what we've agreed upon.

(10:34):
Blah, blah, blah.
Right, but if you are sort ofjust getting into fisting, it
shouldn't be painful, and so wehave to take it slow.
It can take practice.
It does require tons of lubeand that is really important, so
it shouldn't be painful.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Also, it's not shameful to not be able to take
a whole fist.
I mean, there can be shame inboth directions, right?
Shame in enjoying it and shamein not being able to do it,
depending on where you are inyour own sexual journey and who
your lovers and community are.
I have been the fister, if youwill, given the fisting, many a

(11:20):
time in my intimacy journey.
I, on the other hand, havenever.
I was like.
After doing it several times Iwas like maybe this is maybe I
should give it a try myself.
And I have never been able todo it.
It was too painful for me.
It was really exciting up to apoint and extremely pleasurable

(11:43):
in a way that I had neverexperienced before.
And then it tipped over intolike this doesn't feel good,
like I can't do this.
But I love to give and I liketo you know, every once in a
while I'm like let's give it atry again and see how far we get
.
But that's kind of what hashappened to me.
I do want to talk about thepleasure that it brings.

(12:05):
I also want to say up frontsomething we didn't mention is
it does not mean you're looseeither my experience on this
journey, which I would love toshare with you and hear about.
Whether or not this resonatesor if you've heard this before
is the first time it happened.
I was with a woman and we Imean it literally was a it just

(12:28):
slipped in situation like westarted having passionate sex.
She was definitely like a tinywoman and just as things got
heated up and went further and Ialways like to ask would you
like?
more you know, I asked forconsent.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Every finger, every step of the way.
Oh question like would you likemore?
Would you like another finger?
Would you like more?
You know I ask for consent,every finger, every step of the
way.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Great question, oh, great question.
Would you like another finger?
Do you want?
You know, I never.
And here's a great tip for allof my listeners I don't care
what gender you are.
It is so sexy too.
It's the sexiest thing to askbefore any new finger enters,
and, and we'll make the mix forit too.
That too, I like that.
And so we just ended up there.

(13:08):
And that's also where I learnedabout the sort of ballooning or
tenting that happens in a vaginafor some women when they get
really excited.
So when you know you are doingwell, that in the vagina, the
vaginal canal can actuallyballoon into what almost the
shape of it felt like almost ahot air balloon to me, and
that's when the whole thingslipped in, and it was so

(13:31):
incredible.
I will never forget my first.
I will never forget my first.
I was like shocked by how hotit was.
Like it still takes me back tothink about it, you know.
And I had no idea Look, I hadnever heard of it because nobody
talks about it.
I had seen it in porn, likeyears ago, and thought what the

(13:51):
fuck that looks violent.
And here I am engaged in thissituation.
That's obviously not violent atall.
It's like sexy and erotic.
And then you know she had anorgasm.
And how did I know?
Because that ballooned vaginaalmost broke my little fist.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
What is like insane.
Has you felt every singleearthquake that has happened?

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Oh my God, and that's hot Like.
Oh, I got hot Just talking.
Oh, you know, that's where I'mlike.
If you want to know if shereally came like there is no
faking that shit.
And it also the beauty of itwas that it also taught me about
how to read a woman's body, andI think it's part of the reason

(14:35):
why I feel so confident inhaving sex with women is that
I've learned those little subtleinternal signs that you can
feel with your hand.
That's why I prefer to use myhands and like toys and stuff
like that.
But that was my experience.
No education, it was literally.
It just slipped in and ofcourse, you know she said it was

(14:57):
her first time, I think she waslying to me, which is okay, I
forgive you.
I still felt special, but youknow.
And then, moving on into thefuture situations with women,
what has surprised me is howmany women actually really love
it but are so quiet about it.
Nobody, no one's ever asked forit, but you know it's clear

(15:21):
when we get to that point thatit's something that's desired.
So can you talk about that, the, the shame, and then the
pleasure that's actually thepleasure potential can we talk
about?
It's not painful, it'sincredibly pleasurable.
And why?
Where do I start?

Speaker 1 (15:37):
in that.
So you know, I think there's somuch stigma and shame around
sex period, so you know there'sthat right, just baseline.
But also I think fisting reallyis associated I think primarily
what I think of fisting, Ithink of lesbian, that's what I
think of but it really is alsoassociated with gay men and

(16:00):
really fisting became like knownand sort of like I wouldn't say
mainstream, but like known, itunderstood as sort of an act in
the 70s with gay men in gay barsand that was sort of like I
don't know like the time wherelike fisting was a thing.
There's a famous fisting clubfrom san francisco that was for

(16:22):
gay men.
Like fisting has a really likerooted history in gay culture
and so I don't know if that'spart of it.
It also at one time wasbelieved to be part of sort of
like, um, this fear around HIVand AIDS and that like fisting,

(16:44):
because you're a gay man, causedHIV or AIDS, which of course is
not true.
But I really feel like thatwasn't that long ago and I think
some of that stigma stillreally exists in queer spaces,
regardless of your gender, and Ithink that's kind of how
fisting has gotten, sort of likea bad rap, if you will think

(17:07):
that that kind of how fistinghas gotten sort of like a bad
rap, if you will, right, I youknow.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
It's so funny that you bring that up because as a
queer woman, I almost neverthink about it as anal fisting.
That's not something I haveexperience with and I don't
think of it.
I don't associate it with gaymen.
So, yeah, my whole kind ofworld just shifted there.
I really think of it as, likeyou said, as a woman on woman
thing, I also think that a lotof the shame and stigma for

(17:35):
women comes from you know thesort of thing that horrible men
like to sling about women asbeing too loose, being too loose
and being you know that wholething around a big, whatever
Grand Canyon.
You know whatever insult theylike to throw out about Gosh,

(17:56):
extra wide, extra wide.
What would they say, mike,maybe you're just extra small
buddy, but I'd like to talkabout the pleasure part.
I mean, I'm sure many peoplelistening to this are like
you're full of bullshit.
That's got to hurt, it's got tobe painful, there's got to be
pain involved.
Can we talk about the anatomyof it and why there's so much

(18:16):
pleasure in fisting?
And I'm talking about fistingwomen right now.
That's what I want to do,because that's what I'm excited
about about but the structures,and because I do think and even
though I never have I've neverhad someone make a fist deep in
me I do know that oftentimes,when I've given it a good go,
there is this deeper likesensation that you feel and I

(18:39):
think that's the explosivenessof it, and I do know that
anatomy and structure is behindit.
So can you talk about whyfisting would be so incredibly
pleasureful for a woman who isable to achieve that act?

Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yes, for the record, you know, we kind of talked
about this with the men andwe're talking about, like, this
idea of loose and whatever it'slike the vagina is a muscle and
can literally birth a baby.
Okay, a whole baby can comethrough the vagina, okay.
So when we think about a fist,right, it can sound big or

(19:20):
overwhelming potentially, butthe vagina is really built to be
able to handle that, reallyokay, like, your vagina is going
to be okay.
When we stretch our calfmuscles right, they don't become
looser, right.
So when we stretch our vaginait doesn't become looser.

(19:41):
It's just like not how it works.
And so I think when we'retalking about this thing, you're
right there is this sort oflike penting, or I'm going to
say swelling, because that makesit sound like we're really
inflamed or something, butthere's a spaciousness that
happens when somebody is a mess,like dying.

(20:06):
What did I say?

Speaker 2 (20:07):
It is so hot.
It's so hot Like, why didnobody talk about it?
I like to call it tinting orballooning, because I feel like
sometimes it feels like aballoon and no one told me about
that ever.
I don't even know if I do it,but I can feel it.
I can, like I always know ifI'm doing it right with any
woman, because I'll start tofeel that expansion happening

(20:28):
and if there is something thatwill, like, make me
energetically come, that is it.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
It's really hot, yes, and again.
It's like the vagina is able toget really big, and so if
there's a lot of arousal, it canget really big and again.
So if there's a lot of arousal,it can get really big and again
.
If it doesn't for you, that'sokay, and what you're describing
in that, I think, is so manypeople's experience with fisting
.
As the fister there becomesthis spaciousness that exists.

(20:57):
That is really differentfeeling than maybe when you're
starting out and you've got oneor two digit in.
It's not the same sensation atall.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
I am so, I feel so blessed to have been hashtag,
blessed to have been a fister,the giver of the fist, thankful
for these tiny hands.
All right, so I'm sorry Iinterrupted you.
Go ahead, we are now fisties.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
That's it.
We are, we are in, we're in inthe hot air balloon, we are, you
know, and then I think also too, like there's just so many
nerve endings, as you know,especially with our clitoris.
But the clitoris, this isreally interesting too, right.
The clitoris people think ofwell, some people think of as
this, like little externalbutton.
Okay, clitoris is not just alittle external button.

(21:50):
That is really selling it shortwhen we think about sort of
this like 3D model of theclitoris which you can easily
Google and find.
I sometimes will just go likethis to show people it's like my
head is like the externalbutton, and then this is what
you don't see oh, I like that westand up and show that.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
Okay, guys, you gotta go to youtube because this is
great out of youtube.
So your face, your face is the.
Is the clit external being likethe?

Speaker 1 (22:16):
clittering hood here.
Right, it would come up.
My case is like the externalcase and clit.
But then there's these bura orlegs that are on the inside
right I like that Also, arereally amazing and they expand.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
I didn't know that.
All right, so they expandoutwards.
So I'm kind of doing the thingyou did.
So if you're my listeners, youcan run over to YouTube and just
check out our ridiculous visual.
My listeners, you can run overto YouTube and just check out
our ridiculous visual.
But it works.
It works All right.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
So if my nose is the bean and my arms are the
clitoral legs.
Think of them running within,sort of the labia majora and
labia minora, sort of likemaking that shape.
Okay, yeah, okay, and they'relike the equivalent of, like
erectile tissue, right, right,like which blood flow they're
expanding.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
Right.
And so when we're really likein there, it's like those legs,

(23:39):
those clitoris, the whole, theinternal part of it, which is
what a lot of people fail toright and the vagina itself also
has nerve endings, right.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
So these strong sort of like we're talking about,
like this earthquake, this likepulsing of gripping of right,
like that's a really strongvaginal orgasm and so all of
these different parts areworking together to create what
can be this really intense andexplosive orgasm.

(24:13):
It may be multiple types oforgasms that are happening at
once, and I think for mostpeople who are being schisted,
that is what is happening.
For them, it's not just thevaginal, it's not just the
clitoral, it's like everythingis on, Right, I mean, I think
that's important to point out.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
We talk about the clitoris a lot, and even the
internal clitoris, and let's beclear that the internal arms are
kind of new news in terms of mylifespan, right, and people
learning about it.
But outside of that theclitoris, internal, like the
whole thing there's also othererogenous zones within the

(24:56):
vaginal canal that can createincredible pleasure.
Right, and my understandingcorrect me if I'm wrong a lot of
this is still just beingstudied.
The fact is science, medicalscience has not studied women's
pleasure throughout the year, soit's just starting to happen

(25:19):
and now they're just like well,we know that this lights up.
We don't exactly know why, butwe think it's.
You know now, apparently ourpleasure matters, but there are.
I've talked a lot about the Aspot.
There's the O or P spot thatare deeper inside the vaginal
canal.
I've found mine.
All of these are being lit upand places that perhaps you've

(25:45):
never even felt before.
Also, I think when you're beingfisted or you have I don't know
when I've gotten at least fourfingers in me you feel like
there's something on the wall.
There's a pleasure spot on theback wall that is shared with
the anus.
That's super pleasurable too.

(26:07):
Even though women don't have aprostate, you can still
experience incredible intensepleasure on that side of your
vaginal canal, and when you havea fist in you, all of it's
getting contact at once Like asymphony.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
I like to think of it as like a symphony, a symphony
of pleasure.
It's not just like this note orthat note or a combination of
like two notes, it's really likeall the notes, like it's really
like a full symphony ofpleasure.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Right, so it's hard girls individuals and if it's
something you've experienced andyou've had explosive orgasms
around it, and then you feelshame because you're like oh,
what does that mean about me?
It means you're a goddess rightall it means?

Speaker 1 (26:59):
it means you're a goddess Right.
That's all it means.
It means you had great sex.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Congratulations, exactly, exactly.
You know I want to give mylisteners, before we leave, some
basic how-tos.
To get started, I'm also goingto be putting up a full in-depth
instructional that will betagged in this, that you can use
to learn before you dive in.
I did not get the opportunityto get the step-by-step.

(27:26):
You just found yourself there.
I just found me, thank God.
Thank God, but for most peopleI would have loved to have had
some guidance ahead of time.
So you are going to get plentyof that from me.
But before we dive into thatpart, I do want to talk about
the emotional side of, and weare going to be speaking as

(27:48):
vulva owners, vagina owners,pussy owners, because that's
what Chelsea and I know Iwelcome.
If there is a male-bodiedindividual out there who wants
to come on and talk about analfisting with me, I'd love that
angle.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
I really think we should find that person.
If you're listening, please,please, please, let us know.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
We want to know everything we want to hear, it
all we want to understand.
But I think, for the integrityof this conversation, we're
going to be talking about what?
As someone with a vagina, whatis experienced emotionally?
I mean, this can be almost aerotically life-changing

(28:31):
experience.
I know that it was for me as agiver, right, but I also know
that there's a huge can be ahuge impact to the receiver.
And can you speak to that alittle bit?
How can a fisting experience betransformative?

Speaker 1 (28:49):
Not transformative is a word that comes to mind
Spiritual, almost like a portal,like an opening right, we're
talking about this likespaciousness, this expansiveness
.
I think that's something thatI've heard from a lot of folks
is that it's almost like thisspiritual experience for them
where it's like I didn't evenknow that I could feel the way

(29:10):
that I felt in that way.
But also, you know, fisting issuch a vulnerable act.
There's so much trust that hasto be there, I think, a lot of

(29:30):
times For folks who are planningfor, preparing for and getting
ready for really putting theirfist inside somebody.
I know you're saying like yeah,it happened for me and I like
slipped in and you know, maybeit like was that profound,
although in some ways it soundslike it really was.
But I also think that for folkswho are sort of intentionally

(29:51):
entering this first time fisting, I think that there is a lot of
communication and trust thathappens in that process.
I mean, I think anytime we'rehaving sex or intimacy, that
trusted communication is huge.
And so you know, really, likeyou were saying before, a great
question to ask is would youlike another finger?

(30:11):
Can I have more lube please?
You know all of those pieces isreally going to sort of enhance
that sense of connection.
Also, if you can surrender,there's this huge act of
surrender that I think thathappens for the person who is
receding.
If you are being fisted andyou're thinking a lot about

(30:36):
being fisted, it's probably notgoing to work out that well.
We can get super in our headsabout it.
We can be like, oh my gosh,like what is going on, like I
don't know if I can handle this.
Not to say that you shouldn'tconsider those things like keep
in touch with yourself, but ifyou can sort of surrender and
relax into this moment andreally allow yourself to be in

(31:00):
your body and noticing what isfeeling good and pleasurable.
It's such a shift from beinghere in the mental gymnastics,
as I like to call it, and reallyjust being present in your body
with your partner.
That is such a game changer.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
Right, I mean there are things that have to happen
on both sides for it to be areally successful experience and
the transformative nature of itreally is a getting out of the
mind and in into your, your body, and just surrendering to the

(31:45):
experience.
Right, it takes kind of a stepthat I mean a lot of us just
struggle in in.
I was gonna say, well, vanillasex or the pnv, the typical sex
we were taught we were supposedto be having.
We struggle in that just tolike get out of our heads and

(32:05):
not thinking about you know theto do list, or like, ok, what is
this person thinking about?
Me?
And really be in the experienceand letting go of the mind and
just being and being inconnection of the mind and just
being and being in connection.
And if you can achieve that,especially in this experience,

(32:27):
it definitely is going to sendyou out into something that's
very much like and probably thesame thing as subspace, right?

Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah, I think surrender is a really good word.
That's the word that just keepscoming to mind.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
I hadn't even thought about that, that angle.
So I think that's kind of whereto start, because this is
someone who's got to prepare toreceive right and on there.
In many ways it's going to bewith a lover tonight and perhaps
you've talked about tryingfisting, which hopefully you are
in conversation about thisbefore.
Clearly that wasn't myexperience.
Fortunately, it went reallywell for everyone involved.
But I would suggest having theconversation in advance and

(33:36):
making it sexy and gettingprepared.
Conversation in advance andmaking it sexy and getting
prepared what are some ways inwhich you can prepare yourself
for this and some tips andtricks as it proceeds.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
I mean, I think, before you're even in the bed,
so to speak.
Right, I don't know whereyou're going to be doing your
fisting, but let's just say bedright, before you're even there,
before you're even in that sexysituation, before the clothes
come off, before we're reallygetting started.
It's really useful, I think, toreally check in with yourself

(34:08):
around sort of those mentalgymnastics.
What are the things that arestressing you out?
What are the things that areflipping you the fuck out?
What are the things that you'remost scared of?
What are the things that you'vemaybe talked about ad nauseum
and you're just like, oh, mypartner does this, I'm going to
lose my mind, right.
What are those things?
And really try to address anyof that that you can ahead of

(34:32):
time, right?
So if there's something thatyou're really wanting, there's
something that you're really notwanting, communicate that in
advance.
That could be over in advance.
That could be over dinner, itcould be on your neighborhood
walk, it could be while you'rehanging out on the couch, before
we even get to the point wherewe're doing it and that one
thread the place where we'redoing it.

(34:53):
Try to relax.
Start low and slow.
This is what I tell people lowand slow, okay.
This is what I tell people lowand slow, okay.
Like we're working up to fivedigits plus knuckles.
So we're not going to go from asingle finger to that in three
minutes probably.
It's just not going to happen.

(35:14):
And so really making sure thatwe're aroused, making sure that
we've got good blood flow,making sure that we have all the
lubrication that is needed, andreally starting with and
progressing up to those fivedigits plus knuckles in a way
that feels good to you I neverput a timeline on this because
pacing is going to be differentfor everybody.

(35:36):
So again, it's not acompetition.
You know, it's like if threefingers is what makes it tonight
and you were really hoping forall five plus knuckles, that's
okay.
There will be anotheropportunity to work toward that,
but really trying to rememberthat you know low and slow is a
great place to start.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
Right, and starting with that external, you know,
like, spend a lot of timeoutside of the vagina.
I like I always like to tellpeople that I work with to wait
for the vagina to invite you,right, Like the vagina will
invite you to enter her.
If you take time and then learnwhat the signs are, sometimes

(36:21):
that's like lubrication.
Even if it's a little bit oflubrication, you know you'll
start to feel someone get wet,the vulva get wet.
You'll start to feel theexternal labia puff up.
Right, that's another thing.
You know that you're doingsomething right when the

(36:41):
external labia start to fillwith blood, right, yes, and some
wetness.
I always hesitate to usewetness as a signal because some
women just have lubricationproblems.
They can be fully aroused butmaybe not lubricating a lot, but
usually there's a little bit of, you'll feel at least a little
bit of lubrication, but a reallygood indicator is just the

(37:01):
filling of the blood externally,right, and and then you know
you start like dipping the tipof it.
Start with just the tip, folks,of one finger, come on.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
Just the tip is a thing, it's true.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
Just the tip is the best game ever.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
Just the tip is a game to play when you are
exploring this thing andeverybody's.
You know everything is arousedbut, like you said, the vagina
will invite you in.
So if you are, you know, likewe've just talked about, you've
got sort of that externalarousal going on.
We've got our lubrication we'reworking at.
You know we're getting to theplace of eventually, you know

(37:50):
where we're almost in.
We're almost maybe even all theway in, or we think we're all
the way in right, and you'relike, oh my gosh, it's happening
Like I'm being fisted or I'mfisting right.
The vagina will really inviteyou in.
There is sort of, I think, adistinct moment where we alluded
to this before, where there'sthis sort of like.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
Yeah, the sucking up.
It's like that would be thesound for my listeners.
I feel like I have faith iny'all that you know what that
sound is supposed to be.
It's where that.
It just it like goes in andit's like there you are, um, and
that is not something you canforce, it is an invitation.
It might even kind of like suckyou right up in there and be

(38:31):
like hello, give it to me, rightyes, and I have also talked
with folks who feel like scaredbecause they feel like they're
stuck.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
I've had people who are like, oh my gosh, like no,
like really the vagina has sucha grip on me I am afraid to pull
out also.
That is like super.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
oh God, this is like the most important tip I'm glad
we're talking about that Do notjust pull out fast.
Don't ever do that.
That's not a good idea.
So I have had one or two timeswhere the orgasm I was a small
bit afraid I might like break afinger Like I was, like that is

(39:17):
tight and how strong is thatmuscle?
All but afraid I might likebreak a finger Like I was like
that is tight and how strong isthat muscle?
You know I have not read it.
Like you would think I wouldhave immediately gone and looked
up fisting and learnedeverything I could, but I did
not, because I'm a foolsometimes and it can be pretty
intense.
I don't think it can break yourfingers, but I'm not promising
anyone anything.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
I've never heard of it breaking bones.
However, a wrist strain orstrain is not actually that
uncommon, and so you do want tobe really mindful of your
positioning as the giver.
Once you are really in there,you can even use your free hand
to sort of support the wrist ifit's feeling really intense, so

(40:00):
that you're not experiencinglike cramping in the wrist or a
lot of discomfort or pain inyour own wrist, because that
matters too.
And for folks who are feelingquote unquote like stuck, like
the suction is so tight, you canalso use that free hand with
lubrication to like put a fingersort of between the wrist and

(40:21):
the vagina to kind of break theseal pretty well yeah, yeah,
I've definitely.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
I always talk about my fucking arm and sometimes
it's like I have you know it's,I have a fucking arm and I've
definitely had moments where itwas like I can't move it, it's
so tired.
But once the orgasm hashappened or you've gotten to the
point where it's clearly comingto an end, you need to like

(40:50):
very slowly remove.
And I suggest what my and Ithink it's kind of sexy to do,
because hopefully you're inconversation with your lover
this whole time is to encouragethem to relax and take deep
breaths, like if they can takedeep breaths and like open, and
sometimes I'll even ask I'll say, can you open for me and like

(41:11):
relax into it, deep breaths, out.
If they open their mouth,sometimes the pussy in the mouth
, like to do the same thing thatcan help them sort of come down
and release you Do not, do notjust pull that hand out.
You take a broken wrist beforeyou pull that out fast.
You sprain your wrist, youbreak a finger before you do

(41:36):
that.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
Like giving me invitee just thinking about it,
but I'm glad we're talking aboutthis for listeners.
Right, it's like, yes, thestart is important, but the
finish is also really important.
Super.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
And once you are out, something I really like to do
like a grounding move is justcut my hands over the vulva and
just like give kind of like firmpressure so the body can settle
and the nerves can feel thatsort of grounding.
Aftercare is super importantafter an experience like this

(42:10):
and as the giver, yes, I thinkyou need some aftercare too,
because it is super intense, butI am willing to step out of you
know, maybe what people wouldsay is the correct thing to say
here.
I still think the priority isthe receiver in that situation,
regardless of what the giver'sneeds are Like, you need to make

(42:32):
sure the receiver is fine andwhere they need to be before
tending to your own needs, ifyou will.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
You really want to check on that.
You want to know what's goingon.
What do they need to be beforetending to your own needs?
If you will, you really want tocheck on that.
You want to know what's goingon.
What do they need, you know?
A weighted blanket is anotherthing.
I love this like sort ofputting that pressure on
directly to the vulva.
But then even having like aweighted blanket or something
else that can go over the body,I think can also be really sort
of grounding and calming for thereceiver as their sort of I

(43:02):
don't want to say recoveringfriend, but really more like
luxuriating in sort of theaftermath or the after feels of
this experience.
And so for some people they mayreally need that space and time
.
For other people they mightwant you right there up on them.

(43:22):
It really depends.
So really making sure that inthat aftercare you're still
communicating.
What do they need to feelsupported in that moment.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
I think that's part of the eroticism of it too.
As the giver, it feels like avery powerful position to be in,

(44:04):
but one where, like whensomeone surrenders to you in
that way, it's like it's this.
It is a very intense and uniquespecial experience and one that,
for me, really enhanced mysexual confidence and, like I
don't know I don't even know howto encapsulate what that
feeling is of being the one whohas given that kind of pleasure
and and had that kind of controlof sorts.
Well, ultimately, the personwhose body it is has control.
They have the yeses and the nosand so on and so forth.
But still, as the giver, youare in a very powerful position,

(44:26):
very powerful and look, I knowthat people with penises are
always putting themselves in awoman in a sex situation, but I
am saying there is somethingextra special about the fist.
Saying there is something extraspecial about the fist, I'm
just saying and it feels like avery powerful and important
position to be in, and one whereyou can either be really good

(44:49):
at it and do your job well ornot right, and when you do your
job well, you're going to feellike a next level, high off of
that.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
There's like a real strength of accomplishment.
I think that comes in some waysright.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
Like where is my trophy?
Where's my medal?
I want to go that is likeexciting.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
You know that is exciting.
You know, I know, um, you knowthe thing that we haven't really
, the other thing we haven'ttalked about, just from a safety
perspective, because, of course, I am a sex educator and I
think that this is reallyimportant we didn't talk about,
like fingernails.
We didn't talk about stis, wedidn't talk about gloves.
We need to talk about all ofthese things.
So you know, if you are, um,just sting, whether you are the

(45:33):
giver or receiver, people'shands are dirty.
Like hands are gross outside ofbeautiful festive experiences a
lot of the time.
Please make sure everything iswashed.
Nails are short, trim and smooth.
If you are somebody who has longnails or you have a full set

(45:54):
where you have a gel manicure,even these are things to be
aware of.
Even with the gel manicure,unless it's pristine, bacteria
can be trapped in there, and so,really, being mindful of that A
glove is a great way to justsort of like avoid any of the
bacterial concerns or any of thesort of scratching concerns
that can come with that.

(46:14):
If you've got long nails, youcan also put like a cotton ball
in the tip of the glove for eachfinger so that, even if you've
got long nails something thatyou can still, you know, do and
then the lube that you're usingalso matters.
So if you're using a latexglove, oil-based lubes or like
coconut oil, those actually eataway at latex.

(46:36):
So if you're using a latexglove and you want to use like a
silicone-based or a water-basedlube, there's some lubes that I
find to be especially nice forfisting that are like silicone
and water-based, and so they'renot really getting sticky, but
they're still super thick.
This is really personalpreference, so experiment with
lube that you like.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
This is really personal preference, so
experiment with lube that youlike, but just keep in mind, if
you are using latex, that thoseoil-based lubes can eat away at
that, and so I would stay awayfrom those.
Excellent, that's excellentadvice.
Yes, take care of your hands,folks.
Yes.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
Right, like that's so important, you keep them.
And if you have press-ons, takethem off.
Please, please, please, please.
The vagina is a one way.
Okay, the vagina is a one way.
So really, if something getsquote-unquote, like lost in the
vagina, it will find its way out.
The anus is is different.
Um, things can really get lostin there, and so if you have
again like long nails,especially press on, something

(47:36):
like that, like I don't thinkanybody is just staying with
press on, but you don't, I don'tknow.
Um, I have a friend who's an erdoc who tells me all of the
sex-based things that they seecome through the er, because
they know I'm a sex therapistand you would be amazed at what
is in people's bodies.
So just keep that in mindSafety first and then, you know,

(47:58):
just enjoy.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
All right, so I want to close this conversation with
talking about the healing aspectof fisting.
I know that some people haveexperienced and I think this is
hard for some people to imagine,who are just finding out about
fisting, maybe right now whilelistening to this but how, in

(48:22):
your opinion, can it even be ahealing experience for somebody?

Speaker 1 (48:28):
Oh my gosh.
And now Connie goes back tothat sort of like portal or
spiritual sort of surrender andand spaciousness that we've been
talking about.
I think there's something so um, the flat book better word like
no pun intended.
There's something like so deepabout this experience we're

(48:50):
talking about like a symphony,right, like it's really an
intense experience, maybe not inthe ways people initially think
, but there is this reallyvulnerable, trusting connection
that I think exists withinShisting that is just so
enjoyable and can really be sucha game changer.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
Yeah, I don't know what you would add to that, that
I think that if you have thisexperience and it goes well,
which I would hope that it wouldthere are a couple of things it
for, especially for women whohave experienced trauma and that
trauma has led to a fracture inthe relationship with self,

(49:37):
meaning.
Your body no longer trusts youto make decisions for it.
I work with a lot of women whohave had trauma and can't
experience pleasure becausetheir vagina has either numbed
out or shut down where itdoesn't want to let anything in,
has either numbed out or shutdown where it doesn't want to

(49:58):
let anything in, and I've had towork, help them work, with
repairing that distrust and thenwaking up the pleasure nerve
endings.
And I think that the thingabout getting to the point where
you can surrender, like yousaid, where you can surrender,

(50:21):
like you said, to a partner,surrender your body can now
trust you enough, your mind,your decisions, enough to open
up that wide and connect withanother person and let somebody
in and let somebody literallyreach into your core and strike
the symphony, all of thosechords at once.
It can be very healing to beable to trust and let go and

(50:43):
come back to yourself andconnect with another person and
have just an incrediblypleasurable, connected
experience, and that's the exactopposite, the complete opposite
of someone taking away yourbodily autonomy and someone

(51:05):
causing sexual trauma and notgiving you choice and teaching
your body to protect itself andto shut down and to like, push
people away.
It's the exact opposite.
So I think, when I think thatthat is the way in which, from
my perspective especially fromthis like from the perspective

(51:25):
of knowing so many women haveexperienced sexual trauma that
when you get to the point whereyou're having this experience
with someone, even if you don'tmake it to the full fist, but
when you have this experiencewhere you can really like I
don't want those of you whonever get, you know, get the
full five fingers.
Like me, I've never had thefull five fingers and I don't

(51:49):
feel like I'm any less healedthan the woman who had my five
fingers, less healed than thewoman who had my five fingers.
But when you get to experiencethat kind of trust and
connection and surrendering,whether from the giver or
receiver, end like it is justhealing.
It's like wow, this can be likebeautiful and intense and next
level in a way that I neverthought possible, you know.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, and I don't hear you saying this
and that, but I do want to justpoint out to your listeners
because I think for folks who'veexperienced sexual trauma I
also do a lot of work with folkswho've experienced sexual
trauma there is sort of thisidea that I often hear and that
we see sort of like in ourpopular culture and in media

(52:33):
that, like healing from traumais sort of this like pinnacle
event.
Right, it's like thisdestination we're striving for,
and the reality is is that'ssimply not true, and so I don't
want listeners to sort ofcomplete any of this with like,
oh, like fisting is like thething that's gonna make you feel

(52:54):
healed from sexual trauma.
Again, I'm not hearing you saythat that's going to make you
feel healed from sexual trauma.
Again, I'm not hearing you saythat.
But just to be very, very clear,the thing that is going to
allow you to heal the sexualtrauma is that autonomy of your
body, that ability to connectwith yourself, the ability to
experience and enjoy pleasure,and for some people, fisting can

(53:15):
be a really beautiful,impactful and intense profound
even way to experience some ofthat.
If you've never experiencedfisting, that does not mean that
you have not found healing foryourself.
It does not mean that whateveract that you enjoy or whatever

(53:37):
sexual thing that you findpleasurable isn't also part of
that healing.
So I just want to be super,super clear about that.
There is no sort of like onething or set of sexual behaviors
that deals trauma.
It really is about sort ofreclaiming and owning your body,
your pleasure, what feels goodto you and whatever that is go

(53:58):
for it.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
Yeah, and I'm so glad you pointed that out.
Yeah, with any sexual act,there is no checklist to healing
, right, everyone's healing isgoing to look a different way.
I think with fisting, the thingthat's important, especially
for people who have had trauma,to know if this is something you
experience it like, it can bereally easy for shame than to

(54:22):
sort of flood in you know,thinking, oh, I had this trauma
and then I did this thing and Ifelt so much pleasure and blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, that allof this is beautiful, all
intimacy, when done with consentand like reverence for each
other's bodies and especiallylike what the female body can do

(54:44):
.
Right, this is a firsthandexperience, if you will, of what
the female body can do.
Sorry, there's so many punsthat you can get out of this.
I've tried, it just keepshappening, it just keeps
happening and I'm, you know, inthe most serious moment too, um,
but no, seriously.
It is like you get to thisreverence for what our bodies

(55:07):
can do, especially when theycome together in pleasure, like
hallelujah, if you will.
Any last thing you want to sayto the listeners before we wrap
this up, about fisting, I mean,I feel like we have, I feel like
we've really expressed ourpassion for this, this act, and

(55:29):
I hope it becomes more of amainstream topic.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
This isn'tink right, this is just sex now it's
interesting and that I thinkpeople do sort of associate this
with kink and I think thatthere are definitely more like
extreme, like they think of,like fist bucking, which is like
maybe way more intense and likenot as that's something we
didn't talk about it's like onceyou're in there, all five

(55:56):
digits are in there and like thevagina has really welcomed you
and the seal has happened andyou're supporting your wrist
right.
You don't need to do that much.
Okay, like we're not, like, uh,we, we don't need to be like.
It depends on the person.
You don't need to be doing thatmuch.
It's not like you're likeplaying the piano in there, um,
you know, it's like, you knowyou're in there.

(56:18):
Maybe some gentle movements ofyou know gentle, you know
twisting side, maybe there issome of that sort of like um,
I'm gonna say punching, for lackof better word, but like theory
, thrusting, gentle movement,thrust thrusting.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Thank you, I have a tip here I love can.
Can I talk like you're right, wefailed we should have talked
about what happens inside onceyou're inside we're like how you
get in and how you get out andwhat happens when inside is
pretty fucking important.
I think a good tip for that is,um, oftentimes to let the
person, the vagina owner, dotheir own kind of movement or

(56:58):
ask them like, would you like?
I?
I usually do some, like there'slike some some light thrusting
going on there, like very slow,and then I will ramp it up based
on their what they ask for andthen also then they can move
against you, which gives you amoment to rest, because you're
going to need it, trust me, andthey can.

(57:20):
You'll start to get a feel forhow much they want and if they
want more movement.
And some women really like likethe thrusting, like they want
you to thrust, and some likejust a little bit of movement,
that a small movement will hitall the right spots.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
Some will say do not move, like I will do the moving.
You do not move, I will do themoving if I want it.
But for some people, just thesensation of the fullness and
that expansiveness and can besort of this grounding
experience, like a really full,and some people don't want
movement.
So that's super important wedidn't talk about.

(57:57):
I'm so glad that you asked mefor final thoughts because I was
like wait a minute, wait aminute, wait a minute.
We didn't talk about this.
Um, communicate with yourpartner, communicate with the
person you know, whoever isinvolved, making sure that that
everybody's on the same page.
Don't think that once you getin there, you've got to like,
then like, perform even more.
It's like you're doing great,you're doing great, you're doing

(58:20):
great.
Communicate.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
Exactly, exactly.
So now you know how to get in,you know how to get out the two
probably most important parts,but then also what to do when
you're in there, and that'sgoing to be all about
communication and preference andhow tired your hand is at that
moment and what you need as well.
So there's that.

(58:42):
I feel like we covered it and,like I said, by the time you
listen to this, I am going tohave sort of a step-by-step
tutorial that I'm going to belinking in the notes of this and
if you are on my YouTubechannel, it will be linked above
as well.
You can go and I will clarifyall of the steps that we have

(59:05):
talked about here so that youcan have a little lesson, if you
will, in advance, and not go inlike I did, completely blind
and oblivious to what I wasdoing.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
So I need to know.
I know we're wrapping up, but Ineed to know.
So you had started thisconversation by describing that
you are having this sexyconnection with somebody, and
there should have been thisdebate.
Have we settled?

Speaker 2 (59:31):
the debate.
I mean, I imagine I will spendtime debating with her, whose
side you landed on, I think.
So I'm going to have to clarifywhat she was saying.
She was saying this, but I feellike she left a pinky out.
But she was basically like thisand I'm like no, this, and I

(59:51):
think what you said is they bothcount as long as we're all the
way in right.
So I will be debating with herwhether she meant all the
knuckles were in or not.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
I sort of think that this depends on the size of the
hand right, like if you've got apretty small hand like this may
be pretty like accessible anddepending on your partner right
or people's preferences.
But you know, if we're, ifwe're talking about a really big
hand, we're probably going inmore like this, even if while
we're inside we're getting moreinto this kind of position.

(01:00:29):
It's sort of that entry.
I think that is really more oflike you know the the shadow
puppet.
That is really more of like youknow the shadow puppet For
listeners.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
Let me clarify For listeners.
Let me clarify when she wassaying it goes in like this,
more like this.
She was like talking about moreof a flat-handed fist.
Like it goes you go in with thePringle fingers, Pringles in
the tube fingers, but then asyou get in you may curl into
more of a fistish, like a fingercurled fist, before getting to

(01:01:04):
the full fist Like thumb.
There's thumb inside fist andthere's thumb outside the
knuckles fist.
Right.
That's a good way to explain itto my listeners.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
There's also just like this right Whereas like in
or out on the front, but there'salso just like on the side,
because I think going from thisto this is not that big a belief
, as long as you don't poke withthat.
It is that big a belief, butyou know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
We just don't want to poke with the thumb and, as I'm
watching you make it looks likewe're doing sign language over
here.
But as I'm watching your fistand my fist, if you have a ring
on, you're going to want to takethat off.
If you're going to fist,nothing that can catch on
anything.
Well, guys, what I love aboutthese conversations is we know
some stuff, we share some stuff,we learn some stuff and then we

(01:01:51):
figure out more stuff we don'tknow and we want to learn about,
and that's what sex andintimacy is about.
That's what this journey isabout.
And even regardless of you knowI've got a sex therapist here.
I'm a coach.
I've been podcasting and havingthese conversations for four
plus years and I am stilllearning and growing and

(01:02:12):
becoming more curious and thereare always new topics, new
questions to ask and new thingsto more curious.
And there are always new topics, new questions to ask and new
things to find out and hopefully, in the answers, we will expand
our mind and acceptance ofpeople and have more orgasms.
That's the hope.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
Yeah, I think that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
I think we I just think we end there.
That's a good place to end.
So before we sign off, though,I want you to tell my listeners
where they can find out moreabout you and get in touch with
you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
Absolutely.
You can find me online on mywebsite,
wwwphasesofthemindtherapycom.
You can also find me onInstagram at
phasersofthemindtherapy.
It's like phases of the moon,but phases of the mind.
Therapy it's like phases of themoon but phases of the mind.
I am a self-proclaimed lunatic.
I'm obsessed with the moon.
So yeah, that's where you canfind me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
And I will have the link below in the show notes so
you can just go down there,click on it.
We're going to take you thereand you guys, if you have
watched this, listen to this andyou have questions, and if you
don't, I will be shocked.

(01:03:23):
I want you to either head overto my YouTube channel and drop a
comment in the comment sectionof this podcast, shoot me a
question at Annette atTalkSexWithAnnettecom, or scroll
down and hit my speak pipe,send me a voice message and I am
sure Chelsea would come backand answer questions with me.
We could just do a Q&A.
Happy to do that, it's so muchfun.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
you guys, Please send all your questions.
We're happy to answer them.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
Because this is obviously a topic we both love a
lot and we're openly sayingthat.
So you can ask us, we are happyto answer and look, if you are
someone who's looking for acheerleader, a wing woman, if
you will, in your ownself-pleasure journey, your own
intimacy journey with someoneelse, you can get ahold of me.

(01:04:05):
You can find out more aboutthat on my website,
talksexwithanettecom, or, youknow, I just told you all the
ways to get in touch with me.
So until next time, folks,we'll see you in the locker room
.
Cheers.

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