July 2, 2025 • 54 mins
What happens when a woman truly owns her sexuality?
The s*x gets better. The spark comes back. And trust us—he’ll feel it too.
In this episode of Talk Sex with Annette, I’m joined by Dr. Bonnie Comfort—psychologist, author, and expert in helping women ditch sexual shame and step into real, raw pleasure. We’re breaking down how to stop performing, start feeling, and completely transform your sex life—from the inside out.
You’ll learn:
🔹 What “owning your sexuality” really means (it’s not just being sexy)
🔹 The invisible pressure of performative s*x—and how to break free
🔹 Why reclaiming your pleasure leads to deeper connection, hotter sex, and more confidence
🔹 What men can do to help their partners feel safe and turned on
🔹 Actual tools to reconnect with your body, desire, and e r0tic power
Whether you’re single, partnered, or feeling a little disconnected in the bedroom—this one’s for you.
Find out more about Bonnie and her book here: https://www.simonandschuster.com/authors/Bonnie-Comfort/234719297
You can find my spicy site here. https://talksexwithannette.com/talk-sex-with-me/
My spicy OF handle is @talksexwithannette
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Cheers!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Do the sex pleasure and desire Around here.
Nothing's off limits.
These are the kinds ofconversations we save for our
boldest group chats, our mosttrusted friends and, of course,
the women's locker room.
Think raw, honest and sometimesunapologetically raunchy.
If you've been here from thebeginning, thank you, and if
(00:40):
you're new, welcome to mypodcast.
Where desire meets disruptionand pleasure becomes power.
Now let's talk about sex Cheers.
Today's Talk Sex with Annettetopic is how women can own their
sexuality and have mind-blowingsex.
(01:00):
Today on Talk Sex with Annette,we are talking about what it
actually means for a woman toown her sexuality, because most
of us were never taught how.
We were taught how to look sexy, how to be desired, how to make
someone else feel good, but howto feel powerful in our own
skin, how to know what we want,how to ask for it or even
(01:22):
believe we deserve it.
That's the part that's beenmissing.
And when it's missing, it's notjust women who lose out,
because here's the real hookwhen a woman owns her own desire
, there's more sex and bettersex for everyone.
This episode is for anyonewho's ever felt disconnected in
the bedroom, for women who feellike they're going through the
(01:44):
motions.
For men who don't know why thespark is gone or how to bring it
back, and for anyone who's everfelt disconnected in the
bedroom.
For women who feel like they'regoing through the motions.
For men who don't know why thespark is gone or how to bring it
back, and for anyone who'sready to stop performing and
start having real connected,turn-you-the-hell-on kind of sex
.
That's what we're digging intowith Dr Bonnie Kempfer, a
psychologist who spent decadesworking with women and couples
navigating shame, disconnectionand the invisible weight of
(02:06):
trying to be enough.
Her new book, staying Marriedis the Hardest Part, isn't just
about marriage.
It's about how women losethemselves inside love, sex and
aging, and how they find theirway back.
This conversation is aboutsexual confidence, sexual
exploration, body image andbreaking the rules we never
(02:26):
agreed to but have been livingunder our whole lives, and we
are going to dive into that now.
But first I want to remind youI'm over on OnlyFans where I'm
sharing my sex and intimacyhow-tos demonstrations and
audio-guided self-pleasuremeditations that are all
designed to help you starthaving better sex and intimacy.
Tonight you can also find meover on Substack doing a whole
(02:49):
lot of the same, and you canfind me in both places with my
handle at TalkSexWithAnette.
You can also scroll down to thedescription of this episode and
you're going to find links toeverywhere you want to find me
below.
But for now, dr Bonnie, I wouldlove it if you would introduce
yourself to my listeners andtell them just a little bit more
.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Hi, so I'm so happy to be here on this program with
you.
I think what you're doing isincredibly valuable for women.
I'm a psychologist.
I've been in practice for over30 years.
I have worked with individualsand couples with marital issues,
with sexual issues, and Istruggled in my own marriage
(03:30):
with a really important sexualconflict.
That was the painful part ofour marriage and both of us were
very in love with each other,didn't want to leave each other,
but had to struggle with thisconflict and I wrote about that
in my memoir.
Staying Married is the HardestPart, and I do want to help
(03:53):
women connect more with theirsexuality in a way that is
self-advocating but isn'trejecting of men.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I think all of my listeners are going to
appreciate that, because I thinka big piece that's missing is
just the understanding of what'sreally going on there,
especially in heteronormativerelationships between men and
women.
Men oftentimes don't thinkwomen want sex and women just
don't know how to even connectwith their own desire or express
(04:27):
it.
So this is why, listeners, Iwant you to stay to the end
because this conversation, firstof all, we've got a very
qualified guest here today tohelp us get those answers to how
do we bridge that disconnectand make things work with our
partners again, whether you'renewly together because sometimes
(04:47):
these things happen early on inrelationships that disconnect
or you've been together for along time.
So by the end of this podcast,you're gonna have a bit of a
roadmap and, of course, asalways, we are gonna give you
takeaways, things you can startdoing right now to start closing
that desire gap and starthaving passionate sex again.
That's the goal, right?
(05:08):
Yes, that's our goal.
And, of course, I'm going totell you where to find her book,
because her book is prettyfascinating and I think that,
whether you are a man or a womanor whatever gender you are,
that her story is going toresonate with you.
I'm confident about it.
So we're going to make surethat you get links to that book,
but for now, let's starttalking about sex desire and how
(05:32):
women in particular can startreclaiming and owning their
sexuality so everybody can starthaving better sex like now.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Cheers.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Cheers to that, cheers to that, right All right.
So first of all, I want tostart with what does it even
mean for a woman in particularto own her sexuality?
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Really important question, and that means
addressing body shame,addressing the belief that you
don't really have the right tothat kind of fabulous pleasure,
fabulous orgasms, connection,asking for what you want.
And it means that you giveyourself permission, first and
(06:18):
foremost, when you're alone, togive yourself sexual pleasure,
to discover what really turnsyou on, to discover what your
sexual you know what your sexualfantasies are, but you may not
feel like you can embrace themin any way, just even in your
own head, because you feel likethere's something wrong with you
that you have those fantasies.
(06:38):
So there's that I think that,for women, accepting the shape
of their body whatever it is,accepting your size, accepting
whatever you think isn'tmatching the visual images that
we're constantly bombarded withby the media of very skinny
(06:59):
women, long-legged, pretty faces, big boobs, and that's not the
average person.
And we want the average personto feel like how you are is
beautiful.
And so there's that piece ofreclaiming your sexuality, but
there's also believing that youhave the right to ask for what
(07:19):
you want, and the importantthing is how you do it, because
it's not only women who havesexual shame about their desires
or how they're functioning.
So do men, and so do people whoare non-binary.
Whatever you have shame aboutyour performance, and I know
that in my book.
I carried a lot of shame aboutthat into my marriage, because I
(07:43):
grew up believing that womenwere supposed to do orgasm
during intercourse and if wedidn't do it exactly during
intercourse, that meant that wewere defective, inadequate, and
I carried that feeling with meand I think that we're
constantly faced with that allthe time.
So being able to divestyourself from comparing yourself
(08:08):
to a standard that isimpossible and unlikely is a
gift you can give yourself tostart off with.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Isn't it interesting that standard set by society
robs all genders, includingheterosexual men, especially in
some ways, of pleasure and goodsex and good connection right,
because if men also believe thatstandard, which is impossible,
(08:39):
then they are going to betreating women in a way that
women can never match and neverlive up to.
Not even that I wouldn't evencall it living up, but live to
right.
So in your book you do talkabout how you met your husband
(08:59):
and I think this is a reallygood example of how, at the
early stages of a relationship,that breakdown and connection
that leads to really good sexcan happen.
And you talk about how you wereeven kind of brave.
You said to him after you hadsex the first time, which was
primarily just penetrative sex,that you needed and wanted oral
(09:21):
pleasure in order to have anorgasm and really enjoy sex.
And because of his own shameand issues he was like I can't
do that.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah, right, and I was very disappointed by that
and he was kind of inflexibleabout it.
This in the context of beingmadly in love with this man who
was charismatic, hilarious,soulful, emotionally connected.
He wasn't disconnected from me,but he brought his baggage of
(09:55):
very restrictive sexual trainingwhen he was a kid into this
situation and I brought into therelationship my own shame,
believing that I had to orgasmquickly and that if I took too
long with a man who was givingme head, that was too much of an
imposition and then I wouldnever be able to come because I
(10:16):
was worried about it.
As soon as anxiety enters thebedroom and you're worried about
your performance, it's the endof relaxing into great pleasure.
So I had very frank discussionswith him right then and I said
well, I was one of those unusualgirls who found a vibrator in
my house at a very young age andI said I'm not giving that up.
(10:39):
So he said, well, fine, let'sjust use your vibrator and then
we'll both be happy, which wedid.
But it's not what I reallywanted.
What I wanted is to feel thegift of him wanting to give me
that pleasure with his own body,and he felt ashamed about that
(11:05):
different performance anxietiesthat women do.
They worry that their penisisn't big enough, that it won't
stay hard long enough, that ifthe woman doesn't climax during
intercourse that means thatthey've failed.
And these are myths that areperpetrated constantly by TV and
, you know, in movies constantly.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
So Wouldn't you say that?
One thing that I know know youand I?
I think we are sexually wiredthe same right Like I, I.
When you talk about feelingstressed about coming quick
enough and all of that, I havethe exact same problems.
But I also think, women, we'vebeen wired to take care of men's
(11:43):
emotional needs, especially inbed.
So when we know that if wedon't come while they're inside
us, they are going to have thesefeelings of failure and it's
going to increase theirinsecurity and it's not going to
make them feel like a man forwhatever that's supposed to mean
.
That increases our likelihoodto perform instead of receive
(12:08):
and experience pleasure when weget performative.
That's where faking comes in,and that isn't owning our
sexuality, the performance piece.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
No, it is helping our partner feel competent and
virile and sexual.
And it's a lie is the problem Ihad with it and I faked orgasm
in casual relationships.
I never faked it with somebodyI was in a long-term love
relationship with, but I fakedit plenty with brief encounters
(12:42):
I had with men, because either Iknew I was never going to get
there and what was the point, orI was ready to have this person
be done with me.
But it's a terrible thing tohave to feel like you have to do
that for your partner andforego your genuine pleasure.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
When we forego our genuine pleasure initially, when
we're in kind of the honeymoonperiod of a relationship, I
think there's just so muchexcitement in being naked with
someone that even if you aren'tgetting off sort of the I don't
know the romance of it, all, thepleasuring them.
I do think like womenoftentimes get a lot of pleasure
(13:27):
out of just seeing the pleasurethat they give to their partner
.
That feels like enough in thebeginning, but as a relationship
wears on and you're not gettingan orgasm back, you aren't
actually feeling a lot ofpleasure, isn't that, would you
agree?
That's where sex starts to feelmore like work and women stop
(13:51):
wanting to engage in it.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yes, it feels like obligation I have to do this,
and it also feels like thepartner is not really getting
pleasure out of giving to you.
I mean, yes, I feel pleasure,I'm happy to give a man pleasure
, but I want him to feel thesame way about doing that for me
because it's an expression oflove and compassion.
(14:16):
And if a man doesn't want to dothat and is afraid that he
can't do it well enough and isafraid to ask, well, what do you
want?
How do he can't do it wellenough and is afraid to ask,
well, what is you know?
What do you want?
How do you like to do it, thenit prevents you from being
authentically yourself with him.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Right.
And if a woman has beenperforming this whole time and
the man thinks well, I have beengiving you pleasure, you've
been saying the oohs and the ahsand the oh, my gods, give me
more right.
And then you're like yeah, butthat was all fake.
You build up to this pointwhere.
How do you fix that?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
It's really hard.
Really hard because the manfeels betrayed that you've been
lying, you've been lying to meall this time I thought you were
having a wonderful time andyou're not and it feels
self-blaming.
Why didn't I figure that out?
I know enough about a woman'sbody to be able to figure that
out.
So it's a terrible thing foreverybody, but it's so.
(15:20):
Prominent Men are so trained.
Now you know pornography isgeared to men's fantasies and
men's taste, and it's always thewomen are just popping off all
the time without you know any,barely any attention to what
they need.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
And even though men feel betrayed, there's this
element of, there's this elementof with us, with women not
owning our sexuality there isthis element of self-abandonment
that is taking place in ourlives as we throw away our own
(15:58):
quest for pleasure with apartner in place of performing
for a partner, and and at leastin my experience and I'm curious
about your perspective it'slike my body responded to the
betrayal.
And so then when I would be inbed with someone, it's like it
(16:20):
would kind of numb out and notit would be like, okay, let's
perform, because sometimes thatcould even mean feeling pain.
Right, because I'd be just indiscomfort as someone's pounding
away at me and I'm not reallyexcited.
But that's where I think thereal loss of the ownership of
(16:42):
our own sexuality can happen isin that self-betrayal.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I agree, and it's this self-sacrificing mode and
needing to please mode thatwomen are still, after all these
decades of the women's movement, still that infuses our culture
.
Women wanting to please,wanting to, you know they'll ask
for equal pay in the workplace,but it's not the same at home,
(17:07):
still feel more of a need to bea caretaker, to nurture, to be
self-sacrificing and not reallyrealizing that in sacrificing
that aspect of yourself, you arealso giving up on your partner
in a way saying you're notcapable of connecting with me in
a deeper way, You're notcapable of feeling confident
(17:33):
that it's okay if you don'tperform the way you imagine you
want to you do talk a little bitabout and I feel like it's
woven throughout your book thethread of women being trained to
be desirable and not desiredand to cater to the male gaze as
opposed to their own pleasure.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
First of all, that happens from birth, so that's
all we know.
But what do you think theactual cost of this sort of
training, if you will?
Or yeah, basically beingtrained that way from birth does
to not only us as individualsbut in our intimate life?
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Well, it leaves us one down all the time, because
it is, first of all, it isdeferring to the traditional
power that women have, which isbeauty and being sexually
appealing, and that is not aspowerful in real life as being
(18:37):
able to be assertive, being ableto be smart, being able to be
fully present as you are, tofeel confident that you can
express your opinions and thatyou will be heard.
All of those things that, in acertain way, are real power are
sacrificed on the altar ofbeauty and being sexy, and it
doesn't have to be that it isn'teither, or but so often the
(19:01):
cost is that you the Barbiemovie addressed it to some
extent.
You know, what am I made for?
Am I made for this?
Just to be a beautiful?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
doll.
What does it look like when awoman owns her sexuality?
We've talked about what itmeans.
But I because again, many women, people of all genders are
conditioned in the way that theyare, for women to be desirable,
to be pretty, to be veryperformance-based we don't even
(19:30):
know what it would look like forus to actually own our
sexuality.
But when a woman realizes andowns her sexuality, what does
that look like?
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Well, I think it first of all looks like her
relationship with herself, and Ithink it's really important for
women who have not exploredtheir desires or sexuality
enough to start alone and youknow, and to explore what
actually excites them, whatactually gets them off and what
(20:06):
their fantasies are, and whetherthere's something they want it
acted out or don't want it actedout and don't even want anybody
to know what's in your head,but it's arousing to you.
So there's that.
But being able to believe thatyou have the right to sexual
pleasure is part of it and thatyou want to meet your partner,
(20:28):
whoever that partner is halfwayin creating that.
And that means being able tohave conversations that are
delicate, because what I've seenover and over in my office is
talking about sex is a minefield, because both partners feel
fragile.
The self-esteem is very tiedinto it, and if either one of
(20:53):
you say something that isderogatory, or you know, or I'm
disappointed in you, it's a bigshutdown.
And so being able to uselanguage that is kind, that is
accepting but is also inviting,is a very important part of
owning your own sexuality andinviting your partner to that.
But I think the core thing isreducing shame about the way
(21:15):
your body looks and the way itperforms, and enjoying pleasure
alone, so that you know whatturns you on, what gets you off,
and being able to say, hey, Iknow what I like and I want you
to do that.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
And when a woman owns her sexuality and is able to do
that with a partner, wouldn'tyou say?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
the result is like more incredible, fun, playful,
expansive sex, Definitely, butalso and I thought you were
going to say it is moreself-confidence.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
So much more self-confidence right.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Because believing that you're a sexual person who
has the right to that and you'regood at it and you're willing
to be, have your partner learnhow to be good at it and have
that together, have your partnerlearn how to be good at it and
have that together, is soaffirming of yourself in the
most basic way.
You know that you love yourbody, your partner loves your
(22:16):
body and you give that back.
I mean it's the best scenariofor sexual pleasure that is
broader than just physicalpleasure, is broader than just
physical pleasure.
It's feeling accepted, fullyaccepted, and met where you want
to be met.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I love that you say that it starts in the bedroom
alone for a woman.
I don't love the wordmasturbation, but we all
universally know it.
I like the term self-pleasureor self-love, and something I've
heard from women over and overagain is how uncomfortable they
like, they don't like looking atI like to refer to it as a
pussy.
You might have your ownlanguage, I like calling mine my
(22:56):
pussy.
But vagina they're, they'reequipment, but I'm going to say
pussy.
They don't want to see it.
They feel weird about touchingit, smelling it, all of that
stuff.
And to me, when I hear womensay that, it feels like so much
self-hatred, yes, and when youstart masturbating regularly and
touching your body and thenhaving pleasure and orgasm, it
(23:19):
is this act of self-love.
And when you do it over andexpand that practice, in my
experience you can't help butlove yourself and accept
yourself more.
Right?
Wow, this body can hold thispleasure and give this pleasure,
and I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I think that, starting on that, you know
making love to yourself and ithas nothing to do with how you
look, how your body looks, youknow.
It is purely living it from theinside, not looking at yourself
from the outside and embracingthat.
Your body is an amazing, anamazing thing that can give you
(24:01):
pleasure, and I think a lot ofpeople who have been raised in
very restrictive religiousenvironments have to work much
harder at that to let go of theprohibitions that they have been
taught.
It isn't okay to feel pleasurewith your body.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Right, and I know in some relationships even people
will consider if their partnermasturbates, cheating Right.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
I think sometimes women think that, oh you're.
You know you're jacking off inthe shower every morning.
That's why you don't want me oryou don't need me.
But it's not that.
It's really masturbation.
So, woody Allen, what greatthing about masturbation is you
don't have to look good, but youdon't have to worry about
(24:48):
anybody else's needs.
You can just do it however youlike it and not have to be
anxious about any of it, aboutany of the being judged or
measuring up, and to be able togive that to yourself at least,
is so valuable.
I mean, I have seen marriedwomen who have faked orgasm
(25:12):
their whole married lives anddon't even masturbate, don't
even try to bring them.
You know, it's just, they'vejust disconnected and judged
that part aspect of humanity,their own humanity, and it's so
discounting.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
That's sad it is.
I can't imagine.
I can't imagine going withoutthat pleasure, because that
pleasure like really feeds yourwhole health and your mental
health and how you see the world.
When you feel pleasure in yourbody, then you can see around
you how much beauty and pleasurethere is in the world.
It's just, it's all around youand the different ways your body
(25:50):
is an instrument to receive,whether it's like you know the
breeze on your skin and you'reyou know it's like our bodies
are instruments for pleasure.
In my opinion, but also whatthat means for your partner
because I know I've got a lot ofmen that listen to this podcast
is that when a woman then comesto you and she's learned how to
(26:13):
pleasure her own body withoutworrying about performance or
what it looks like, we can'thelp but get greedy in the
bedroom I know at least I can'tand then pretty soon we're able
to do that in the bedroom with apartner and that sort of
animalistic sex that isn'tperformance-based is so hot to
(26:35):
everybody.
So once you start having reallyincredible orgasms on your own
it's like.
Then you're like why would I dosex without this, right, you
know?
Then you're with your partnerand you're like for me, my
journey was then I'd be with apartner and I'd be kind of
trying to be sexy, and then I'dbe like, well, no, I actually
want an orgasm.
So then I would get into what Iknew worked.
(26:58):
And then to see their facelight up as they see what real
pleasure versus performativepleasure looks like.
They're very different andpeople can feel it when both of
you are in that space.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Right, there's this electricity.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
But it's hard to do that with a partner if you
haven't even learned how to dothat with yourself.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Absolutely.
That is step number one, and Ihave a couple of things to say
about that.
First of all, it's really goodfor your health.
Sexuality giving yourselforgasm lowers your blood
pressure.
It's good for your immunesystem.
There's a tremendous amount ofmedical research about the
physiological benefits of it, sothere's that fits of it.
(27:47):
So there's that, and thenthere's a couple of things that
I think are really helpful forwomen who are shy about this or
not knowing what to do.
One of them is well, two ofthem are books about women's
sexual fantasies.
One of them came out this lastyear by Gillian Anderson.
Oh, I love her.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, she is amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, and the original pioneer on that was
Nancy Friday, my secret yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
My secret garden.
Do you know?
I found that I think I'vementioned it on this podcast
before.
It was the first erotica book Ifound in my mom's drawer when I
I don't I was.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
It must've been very young, I that's I started
masturbating right then andthere I still remember some of
the stories.
But I want to make sure wemention that the book that
Anderson put out Want.
I've got a copy written in bypeople who wanted to say what
(28:43):
their real sexual fantasy is,and sexual fantasy often is not
intended to be acted out.
A lot of people feel that itloses its power if you tell it
to somebody else.
I mean, I have in the past toldsexual fantasies to a number of
men who said, well, let's actthat out, and I've tried it once
(29:04):
or twice and that did not workfor me.
I want complete control of thatstory in my head and a lot of
sexual fantasies are impossibleto act out anyway.
But they have tremendous powerand we all have them and we
didn't invent them intentionally.
They just arrive in our heads,sometimes from a book or reading
(29:25):
about it, but sometimes justfrom some experience.
We develop an idea in our headthat is incredibly arousing to
us and that particular scenarioof fantasy our whole life lasts
as being the trigger that ismost powerful for us.
So there's that.
But the other thing I wanted tosay is that there's a website.
(29:50):
I don't know if you know thewebsite.
Omg, yes, do you know that?
I don't know.
Have you talked about that?
It's so.
It's remarkable in the sensethat they have videotapes of
women of all ages and sizes whoare actually showing their labia
, showing how they like tomasturbate, which is incredibly
brave and so different than anyof the girly magazines or porn
(30:15):
stuff that we see.
It's real people being braveenough to show their faces and
show how they handle themselves,and I think it's incredibly
valuable for diminishing shameand helping you reconnect with
your own body.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
One of the most powerful experiences I had,
because when I was younger I wasvery uncomfortable with my body
.
I had a lot of body dysmorphia.
I couldn't imagine ever goingto a nude beach or any place
where people were naked and I'dhave.
It wasn't about other peoplebeing naked, it was like oh my
(30:51):
god, I can never be naked infront of people.
And I went to in Seattle, maybe.
So Bonnie lives in Portlandwith me, so we are, we are in
the same city.
But in Seattle there is and I'mgoing to put a shout out for it
here the Women's Olympus Spa,and it is only women.
(31:13):
It's this spa that you go into,with big pools of water of all
different temperatures anddifferent rooms that are heated,
and in the spa room with allthe pools you can't wear any
clothes Like, you have to benaked.
And I don't know why I agreed togo the first time I did.
I was terrified.
(31:34):
I was terrified and it wasshortly after I'd had my first
child, so probably worst timingever.
But I go into this room and Isaw women of I mean just I mean
tons of women, all sizes, allbodies, and it was such a
profound moment for me of beinglike oh, I'm just, I'm just
average, right, right, fine, I'mokay, there's nothing weird
(32:00):
about my body and and I couldlook around and see how
beautiful all of these differentwomen were, of all different
sizes and all different ages.
So I think that ties into howyou're saying that the site
OMGES gives people theopportunity to see real women,
real bodies, and how profoundthat can be for I mean, I know,
(32:23):
for other women, but I thinkalso just someone of any gender,
to understand what that reallylooks like.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
And stop comparing yourself to these images that we
are barred and martyred withevery single day.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
And I also want to go back to your mentioning the
book Want.
So Gillian Anderson is, I think, my age maybe a little bit
older, and I bring that upbecause, also, a big part of
owning our sexuality isunderstanding we can reclaim it
or claim it for the first timeat any age and that women of all
(33:03):
ages are sexy, desirousindividuals.
This is not something.
There's a big lie out there,and I hear it, you know, in the
comments from some of the peoplewho listen to my podcast
constantly.
You know, after 30, women don'twant sex.
You're dried up once you're 40,and I'm assuming that you can
(33:24):
verify, along with me, thatthat's absolutely not true.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
I can definitely verify that with you from myself
.
But also you know so many womenI've seen and I you know I
constantly ask my girlfriendsalso what their sex life is like
, because it doesn't seem tocome up in normal conversation.
I ask Otherwise it doesn't comeup as a topic in social
(33:49):
situations, even one-to-one withfriends.
Are they shocked when you ask?
I think they're relievedbecause I go first.
That gives them permission totell me what's going on with
them, but otherwise theywouldn't say anything.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Yeah, no, I in my and , I wonder, my group of
girlfriends primarily comes from.
I'm bisexual and I have abisexual nonprofit and that's
where I've met most of mygirlfriends in more of the LGBTQ
community and we we talk aboutsex all the time, like all the
(34:29):
time.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Well, that is a privilege of being in the LGBT
community that you do giveyourselves and each other
permission to talk about thingsthat seem socially unacceptable
and, you know, in heterosexualsituations, and so I think it's
great.
I think it's great.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
I wonder if some of that is just because our
sexuality is so like in thespotlight.
Anyway, it's hard, you know.
Why not talk about sex whenyour sexuality is already, like
inherently, a focal point ofdebates and judgment and
figuring things out, beingostracized for it.
(35:09):
The bottom line is you canreclaim or claim for the first
time your sexuality, if for manyof us who are in our 50s and
above, 40s and above, you maynot have ever had the
opportunity because it justwasn't talked about until now,
but it's never too late.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Oh my God.
I mean, I had a patient who was80, who was widowed, and she
fell in love with a man you know, I don't think he was quite as
old as she was.
But she said I just can'tbelieve this.
I'm having the most amazingorgasms of my life at 80.
So it does.
There's not a switch that turnsoff.
No, it might be slower, mightbe less, could be less intense,
(35:52):
but it's not gone, nope not atall.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
So let's now focus on .
For women who are right nowlistening to this and going,
okay, I get it, or I'm sodisconnected and sex is a chore.
What are some things that wecan tell them?
They can start doing or theirpartners are listening right now
to start shifting and helpingher reclaim, or claim for the
(36:19):
first time, her sexuality.
What are some steps?
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Well, the first thing I would think about is reading.
There's a couple of books thatI think are incredibly helpful.
The one that just whipped myhead around is Emily Nagoski's
book Come as you Are, becauseshe normalized the fact that if
you're anxious, you're not goingto be able to relax and enjoy
sex the way you want to, and shetalks about all the different
(36:45):
variations that are all normal,so it really helps you have a
better idea about that.
And then Lori Mintz, who's apsychologist, who's a sexologist
.
She wrote a book calledBecoming Clitorate, which
introduces you to your own body,and men should be reading it
too.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
I had Lori Mintz on this podcast.
I will make sure, since you'rementioning it, to link that
interview below, because it wasan incredible book and a really
good interview and if you aregoing to start kind of taking
these steps forward, that's agreat place to start.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Yeah.
So there's that.
And then I do think you startalone really getting to know
your body, giving yourselfpermission to do whatever comes
to your mind to do alone, andthen learning enough to be able
to communicate to your partnerhey, you know what, I've tried
this.
I know you might be surprisedby that, but would you like to
(37:47):
try this with me?
And rather than saying you knowyou haven't been doing anything
I like or this isn't workingnot something critical, but
something inviting Be able tosay let's play, let's not even
worry about orgasm, let's justlet's explore each other's
bodies more.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Oh, that sounds so fun exploring each other's
bodies.
So we start with reading.
We get those books that arereally changing the conversation
about sex, and this isn't justfor women.
This is, for people of allgenders, super important.
And those are two great booksCome as you Are and Becoming
Clitorate Two great places tostart quick reads as well.
(38:27):
Then a self-love, self-pleasurepractice that is extensive
that's what I would say.
Like getting using your hands,getting toys trying different
positions, yes, like and let it,letting your head go crazy
places.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Exactly, you can imagine anything that turns you
on.
You don't have to act it out.
Also, if you do act it out beprepared to lose it as a fantasy
?
Yes, I think so.
Or sometimes it can just kindof lose its power, yeah Right.
But I do think you know peopleshould explore sex toys.
(39:04):
There's some great stores inPortland that have sex toys and
you don't feel like you'rewalking into a store with a lot
of men in raincoats.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I want to harken back to the beginning of your book
where you talk about.
This is a good place to addressthe myth when it comes to
vibrators and toys, how you hadbeen told early on that the big
myth that still exists.
And when I do sex toy reviews,which I have on my YouTube
(39:34):
channel, I get this comment alot that sex toys, vibrators in
particular, ruin women's vaginaslike make them so they aren't
sensitive anymore and they can'tenjoy a penis, and all of that.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Totally not true.
Totally not true.
You can, you know, I mean, youcan get a really intense, fast
orgasm from a vibrator, butthat's not necessarily superior
to being with somebody who loveslicking you and loves feeling
you get more turned on and maybe, you know, gets you close and
then backs off a little bit andgets you to the point where
(40:10):
you're just explode.
I mean, that doesn't replacethat.
It's efficient, efficient.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
And sometimes we need efficiency.
Yes, yes, but it definitelydoes not.
My favorite kind of sex and Ithink most people's is the kind
that is like a long play sessionwhere you are doing that.
Sometimes you're going down oneach other, sometimes you're
penetrating each other,sometimes you're teasing each
other and then you go back tothe oral sex and you change.
(40:38):
You know what I mean.
You go in and out of it beinghard and soft and uh, yeah, it's
hard to replace that kind ofinteraction yeah, but so how?
now?
Let's say, the woman has gone,she's read the books, her
partner's read the book, she's,for whatever period let's say a
month or two been on theself-pleasure journey.
(40:59):
But then there is the barrierof bringing that to your partner
and the fear of what they mightsay or think.
Now that's the leap right.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
It is, and it requires going slowly and
tactfully and not necessarilysharing all that you've learned
about your body right away orwhat you want, but being able to
invite your partner right awayor what you want, but being able
to invite your partner to dosomething different.
(41:32):
You know, let's go sit in a hottub and play with each other a
little bit, or a lot of mendon't want to talk about this,
and so being able to invite itwithout so much dialogue in the
beginning is probably better.
You know some men are great atthat, but the men who are great
(41:54):
at dialogue and are sensitiveenough to be that tuned in on
who you are as a person usuallyare better partners to begin
with sexually than a guy whofeels like he's supposed to know
everything and you know andfeels threatened by you wanting
to talk about it more.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Right, right.
And so for men, if you'recomplaining about not having a
partner who wants sex, or wantsmore sex, or feels passionate in
bed, check yourself.
Are you like carrying judgments?
Are you saying or doing thingsthat shut down her ability to
(42:39):
share and come to you as hertrue self?
Would you freak out if she saidlike?
Would you freak out if she saidlike I want double penetration,
I want you to play with my ass.
You know, I want more oral sex,or I want to use toys, or I
want you to tie me up, I wantyou to bend me over your knee
and spank me.
(42:59):
I want to call you daddy.
Are you going to be able toreceive those things in a way
that doesn't make her feelashamed or embarrassed?
Those?
Speaker 1 (43:09):
are wonderful questions.
I hope men are listening and ifthey say, well, yes, it would
make me feel ashamed orembarrassed then that's the time
to ask yourself what are youcarrying from your childhood
about how sex is supposed to beand how you're supposed to
perform and how you're supposedto perform and maybe it's a huge
source of shame orembarrassment for you and worth
(43:33):
exploring how you can let go ofsome of those stereotypes about
how you're supposed to be.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
I think a woman that has finally gotten to the place
where she's owning her sexualitywon't tolerate that at some
point from a partner.
In my experience as a woman whoworked so hard to reclaim my
sexuality, I can't tolerate thator bother with it in
relationship with a man anymore,because why would I be there?
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Yeah, so I'm right with you on that.
My husband died sadly 15 yearsago, which was a huge loss for
me, and after a few years Istarted dating and there was one
man that I really liked and Iwas very drawn to, and we were
in bed just two or three timesand then, you know, he was
trying to pleasure me with hishand and I said, well, I don't
(44:28):
like it this way, I like it thisway.
And he took his hand away andhe said I don't want you to tell
me what to do, I want todiscover it for myself.
And I was so turned off by thatthat I just thought, no, this
is not going to be for me, is?
Speaker 2 (44:44):
that the last time.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Yeah, yeah.
So hey, that's a great tip,guys.
You just got a firsthandaccount of how you can kill your
own chances with a woman in bed.
Yeah, exactly, you've got to beopen to a little instruction.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Yes and be fine with it.
On the other hand, you know,many years ago, when I was
before I was married, I dated aman who was the exact opposite.
In a half an hour he we were inbed, he had his hand on my
vulva and he said do you like itlike this, do you like it here,
do you like it there, do youlike it there?
(45:23):
In a half an hour he kneweverything he needed to know to
bring me to orgasm and it wasamazing.
It was so great and he just wasconfident enough to ask.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah, and you can do it in a sexy way too.
It's pretty sexy when a guyasks you and wants to know yes,
because it is.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
I mean to me it's a form of enormous intimate love
to say I want to know all aboutyour body.
I want to know what gives youpleasure.
I want to give you pleasure inthe way that it feels good to
you.
It's a great gift and it drawsa woman closer to you.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
And so that is a really powerful place for us to
start wrapping this up.
So we've told you what it meansto own your sexuality, because
I think that's just a core piecethat's even missing from the
narrative when it comes towomen's sexuality.
Most women don't even know whatthat means.
Women don't even know what thatmeans.
(46:26):
And then we've given you whyit's valuable for everybody.
Your sex is going to get better, immensely better.
Life is going to light upbecause you're going to have.
You know people like to doadventures.
They travel and stuff like that.
You can do adventures in bed.
It's every day if you want,right.
And then you gave a great sortof roadmap Get the books, start
(46:50):
educating yourself, startpleasuring yourself and
exploring yourself, and then getthose communication tools from
the men.
You need to take a look atyourself.
Where are you shutting down theintimacy?
Where is your shame coming intoplace?
How are you keeping her fromclaiming her sexuality Right?
Speaker 1 (47:09):
And yeah, the other thing I want to say is some men,
as they age, in their 60s orearly 70s, they have prostate
problems.
They can't necessarily maintainan erection, so they feel like,
well, it's over, for you know,I can't perform, I have nothing
to offer, and that is so, nottrue.
So not true.
I mean, you know, they maystill be able to masturbate, and
(47:30):
that's fine.
You can do it in bed with yourpartner, and that's great, and
you can give your partnerpleasure and that may turn you
on again.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Well, right, if you learn to experience the pleasure
of giving pleasure withoutcoming yourself Like there is an
energetic orgasm that can takeplace just from giving someone
else pleasure.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
And that can be very fulfilling for you and for your
partner right?
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Yes, before we go, I would love for you to tell my
listeners where they can findyou and show them your book.
Your book is out so they canidentify it where they can get
this book.
I think you guys will reallyenjoy this story.
Thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
This is my book cover .
My book is called StayingMarried is the Hardest Part a
memoir of secrets, passion andsacrifice.
It is available anywhere,really, where books are sold.
It is now available digitallyand in print, but there will be
an audio book coming in the nextmonth, so there's that as well.
(48:41):
My website is bonnicomfortcom.
You can go there.
It shows where to buy it, andI'm also on Instagram and
Facebook and LinkedIn as BonnieComfort Author, so I would love
that you found it and found itvaluable.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
I will make sure to share linksto that.
And it is captivating.
It's an easy read because it'spretty fascinating, like right
off the bat, and, again, I thinkthat a lot of people are going
to identify with at least partsof it in their own journey.
(49:20):
So make sure to check it outand you guys know where to find
me.
You can find me over on YouTubeif you are a listener, and my
handle there is atTalkSexWithAnette.
If you're looking for supportin your sex and intimacy life,
my intimacy and sex coachingbooks are open.
You can find out more aboutthat at TalkSexWithAnettecom.
(49:41):
You can reach out to me,annette, at
TalkSexWithAnnettecom.
If you have questions about howto reclaim your sexuality or
how to help your partner do that.
Go to the YouTube channel, findthis video, scroll down and
drop your comment below, yourquestion below, and I will do my
(50:03):
absolute best to get you theanswers that you want and need
to start having better sextonight.
Again, bonnie, thank you somuch for joining me and helping
me help the people out there.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
I think you have a tremendous amount of wisdom and
a great deal to give the peopleout there.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Thank you All right listeners.
Until next time.
I'll see you in the locker room.
Cheers.
Do the sex pleasure and desire Around here.
Nothing's off limits.
These are the kinds ofconversations we save for our
boldest group chats, our mosttrusted friends and, of course,
the women's locker room.
Think raw, honest and sometimesunapologetically raunchy.
If you've been here from thebeginning, thank you, and if
(00:40):
you're new, welcome to mypodcast.
Where desire meets disruptionand pleasure becomes power.
Now let's talk about sex Cheers.
Today's Talk Sex with Annettetopic is how women can own their
sexuality and have mind-blowingsex.
(01:00):
Today on Talk Sex with Annette,we are talking about what it
actually means for a woman toown her sexuality, because most
of us were never taught how.
We were taught how to look sexy, how to be desired, how to make
someone else feel good, but howto feel powerful in our own
skin, how to know what we want,how to ask for it or even
(01:22):
believe we deserve it.
That's the part that's beenmissing.
And when it's missing, it's notjust women who lose out,
because here's the real hookwhen a woman owns her own desire
, there's more sex and bettersex for everyone.
This episode is for anyonewho's ever felt disconnected in
the bedroom, for women who feellike they're going through the
(01:44):
motions.
For men who don't know why thespark is gone or how to bring it
back, and for anyone who's everfelt disconnected in the
bedroom.
For women who feel like they'regoing through the motions.
For men who don't know why thespark is gone or how to bring it
back, and for anyone who'sready to stop performing and
start having real connected,turn-you-the-hell-on kind of sex
.
That's what we're digging intowith Dr Bonnie Kempfer, a
psychologist who spent decadesworking with women and couples
navigating shame, disconnectionand the invisible weight of
(02:06):
trying to be enough.
Her new book, staying Marriedis the Hardest Part, isn't just
about marriage.
It's about how women losethemselves inside love, sex and
aging, and how they find theirway back.
This conversation is aboutsexual confidence, sexual
exploration, body image andbreaking the rules we never
(02:26):
agreed to but have been livingunder our whole lives, and we
are going to dive into that now.
But first I want to remind youI'm over on OnlyFans where I'm
sharing my sex and intimacyhow-tos demonstrations and
audio-guided self-pleasuremeditations that are all
designed to help you starthaving better sex and intimacy.
Tonight you can also find meover on Substack doing a whole
(02:49):
lot of the same, and you canfind me in both places with my
handle at TalkSexWithAnette.
You can also scroll down to thedescription of this episode and
you're going to find links toeverywhere you want to find me
below.
But for now, dr Bonnie, I wouldlove it if you would introduce
yourself to my listeners andtell them just a little bit more
.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Hi, so I'm so happy to be here on this program with
you.
I think what you're doing isincredibly valuable for women.
I'm a psychologist.
I've been in practice for over30 years.
I have worked with individualsand couples with marital issues,
with sexual issues, and Istruggled in my own marriage
(03:30):
with a really important sexualconflict.
That was the painful part ofour marriage and both of us were
very in love with each other,didn't want to leave each other,
but had to struggle with thisconflict and I wrote about that
in my memoir.
Staying Married is the HardestPart, and I do want to help
(03:53):
women connect more with theirsexuality in a way that is
self-advocating but isn'trejecting of men.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I think all of my listeners are going to
appreciate that, because I thinka big piece that's missing is
just the understanding of what'sreally going on there,
especially in heteronormativerelationships between men and
women.
Men oftentimes don't thinkwomen want sex and women just
don't know how to even connectwith their own desire or express
(04:27):
it.
So this is why, listeners, Iwant you to stay to the end
because this conversation, firstof all, we've got a very
qualified guest here today tohelp us get those answers to how
do we bridge that disconnectand make things work with our
partners again, whether you'renewly together because sometimes
(04:47):
these things happen early on inrelationships that disconnect
or you've been together for along time.
So by the end of this podcast,you're gonna have a bit of a
roadmap and, of course, asalways, we are gonna give you
takeaways, things you can startdoing right now to start closing
that desire gap and starthaving passionate sex again.
That's the goal, right?
(05:08):
Yes, that's our goal.
And, of course, I'm going totell you where to find her book,
because her book is prettyfascinating and I think that,
whether you are a man or a womanor whatever gender you are,
that her story is going toresonate with you.
I'm confident about it.
So we're going to make surethat you get links to that book,
but for now, let's starttalking about sex desire and how
(05:32):
women in particular can startreclaiming and owning their
sexuality so everybody can starthaving better sex like now.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Cheers.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Cheers to that, cheers to that, right All right.
So first of all, I want tostart with what does it even
mean for a woman in particularto own her sexuality?
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Really important question, and that means
addressing body shame,addressing the belief that you
don't really have the right tothat kind of fabulous pleasure,
fabulous orgasms, connection,asking for what you want.
And it means that you giveyourself permission, first and
(06:18):
foremost, when you're alone, togive yourself sexual pleasure,
to discover what really turnsyou on, to discover what your
sexual you know what your sexualfantasies are, but you may not
feel like you can embrace themin any way, just even in your
own head, because you feel likethere's something wrong with you
that you have those fantasies.
(06:38):
So there's that I think that,for women, accepting the shape
of their body whatever it is,accepting your size, accepting
whatever you think isn'tmatching the visual images that
we're constantly bombarded withby the media of very skinny
(06:59):
women, long-legged, pretty faces, big boobs, and that's not the
average person.
And we want the average personto feel like how you are is
beautiful.
And so there's that piece ofreclaiming your sexuality, but
there's also believing that youhave the right to ask for what
(07:19):
you want, and the importantthing is how you do it, because
it's not only women who havesexual shame about their desires
or how they're functioning.
So do men, and so do people whoare non-binary.
Whatever you have shame aboutyour performance, and I know
that in my book.
I carried a lot of shame aboutthat into my marriage, because I
(07:43):
grew up believing that womenwere supposed to do orgasm
during intercourse and if wedidn't do it exactly during
intercourse, that meant that wewere defective, inadequate, and
I carried that feeling with meand I think that we're
constantly faced with that allthe time.
So being able to divestyourself from comparing yourself
(08:08):
to a standard that isimpossible and unlikely is a
gift you can give yourself tostart off with.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Isn't it interesting that standard set by society
robs all genders, includingheterosexual men, especially in
some ways, of pleasure and goodsex and good connection right,
because if men also believe thatstandard, which is impossible,
(08:39):
then they are going to betreating women in a way that
women can never match and neverlive up to.
Not even that I wouldn't evencall it living up, but live to
right.
So in your book you do talkabout how you met your husband
(08:59):
and I think this is a reallygood example of how, at the
early stages of a relationship,that breakdown and connection
that leads to really good sexcan happen.
And you talk about how you wereeven kind of brave.
You said to him after you hadsex the first time, which was
primarily just penetrative sex,that you needed and wanted oral
(09:21):
pleasure in order to have anorgasm and really enjoy sex.
And because of his own shameand issues he was like I can't
do that.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah, right, and I was very disappointed by that
and he was kind of inflexibleabout it.
This in the context of beingmadly in love with this man who
was charismatic, hilarious,soulful, emotionally connected.
He wasn't disconnected from me,but he brought his baggage of
(09:55):
very restrictive sexual trainingwhen he was a kid into this
situation and I brought into therelationship my own shame,
believing that I had to orgasmquickly and that if I took too
long with a man who was givingme head, that was too much of an
imposition and then I wouldnever be able to come because I
(10:16):
was worried about it.
As soon as anxiety enters thebedroom and you're worried about
your performance, it's the endof relaxing into great pleasure.
So I had very frank discussionswith him right then and I said
well, I was one of those unusualgirls who found a vibrator in
my house at a very young age andI said I'm not giving that up.
(10:39):
So he said, well, fine, let'sjust use your vibrator and then
we'll both be happy, which wedid.
But it's not what I reallywanted.
What I wanted is to feel thegift of him wanting to give me
that pleasure with his own body,and he felt ashamed about that
(11:05):
different performance anxietiesthat women do.
They worry that their penisisn't big enough, that it won't
stay hard long enough, that ifthe woman doesn't climax during
intercourse that means thatthey've failed.
And these are myths that areperpetrated constantly by TV and
, you know, in movies constantly.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
So Wouldn't you say that?
One thing that I know know youand I?
I think we are sexually wiredthe same right Like I, I.
When you talk about feelingstressed about coming quick
enough and all of that, I havethe exact same problems.
But I also think, women, we'vebeen wired to take care of men's
(11:43):
emotional needs, especially inbed.
So when we know that if wedon't come while they're inside
us, they are going to have thesefeelings of failure and it's
going to increase theirinsecurity and it's not going to
make them feel like a man forwhatever that's supposed to mean
.
That increases our likelihoodto perform instead of receive
(12:08):
and experience pleasure when weget performative.
That's where faking comes in,and that isn't owning our
sexuality, the performance piece.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
No, it is helping our partner feel competent and
virile and sexual.
And it's a lie is the problem Ihad with it and I faked orgasm
in casual relationships.
I never faked it with somebodyI was in a long-term love
relationship with, but I fakedit plenty with brief encounters
(12:42):
I had with men, because either Iknew I was never going to get
there and what was the point, orI was ready to have this person
be done with me.
But it's a terrible thing tohave to feel like you have to do
that for your partner andforego your genuine pleasure.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
When we forego our genuine pleasure initially, when
we're in kind of the honeymoonperiod of a relationship, I
think there's just so muchexcitement in being naked with
someone that even if you aren'tgetting off sort of the I don't
know the romance of it, all, thepleasuring them.
I do think like womenoftentimes get a lot of pleasure
(13:27):
out of just seeing the pleasurethat they give to their partner
.
That feels like enough in thebeginning, but as a relationship
wears on and you're not gettingan orgasm back, you aren't
actually feeling a lot ofpleasure, isn't that, would you
agree?
That's where sex starts to feelmore like work and women stop
(13:51):
wanting to engage in it.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yes, it feels like obligation I have to do this,
and it also feels like thepartner is not really getting
pleasure out of giving to you.
I mean, yes, I feel pleasure,I'm happy to give a man pleasure
, but I want him to feel thesame way about doing that for me
because it's an expression oflove and compassion.
(14:16):
And if a man doesn't want to dothat and is afraid that he
can't do it well enough and isafraid to ask, well, what do you
want?
How do he can't do it wellenough and is afraid to ask,
well, what is you know?
What do you want?
How do you like to do it, thenit prevents you from being
authentically yourself with him.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Right.
And if a woman has beenperforming this whole time and
the man thinks well, I have beengiving you pleasure, you've
been saying the oohs and the ahsand the oh, my gods, give me
more right.
And then you're like yeah, butthat was all fake.
You build up to this pointwhere.
How do you fix that?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
It's really hard.
Really hard because the manfeels betrayed that you've been
lying, you've been lying to meall this time I thought you were
having a wonderful time andyou're not and it feels
self-blaming.
Why didn't I figure that out?
I know enough about a woman'sbody to be able to figure that
out.
So it's a terrible thing foreverybody, but it's so.
(15:20):
Prominent Men are so trained.
Now you know pornography isgeared to men's fantasies and
men's taste, and it's always thewomen are just popping off all
the time without you know any,barely any attention to what
they need.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
And even though men feel betrayed, there's this
element of, there's this elementof with us, with women not
owning our sexuality there isthis element of self-abandonment
that is taking place in ourlives as we throw away our own
(15:58):
quest for pleasure with apartner in place of performing
for a partner, and and at leastin my experience and I'm curious
about your perspective it'slike my body responded to the
betrayal.
And so then when I would be inbed with someone, it's like it
(16:20):
would kind of numb out and notit would be like, okay, let's
perform, because sometimes thatcould even mean feeling pain.
Right, because I'd be just indiscomfort as someone's pounding
away at me and I'm not reallyexcited.
But that's where I think thereal loss of the ownership of
(16:42):
our own sexuality can happen isin that self-betrayal.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I agree, and it's this self-sacrificing mode and
needing to please mode thatwomen are still, after all these
decades of the women's movement, still that infuses our culture
.
Women wanting to please,wanting to, you know they'll ask
for equal pay in the workplace,but it's not the same at home,
(17:07):
still feel more of a need to bea caretaker, to nurture, to be
self-sacrificing and not reallyrealizing that in sacrificing
that aspect of yourself, you arealso giving up on your partner
in a way saying you're notcapable of connecting with me in
a deeper way, You're notcapable of feeling confident
(17:33):
that it's okay if you don'tperform the way you imagine you
want to you do talk a little bitabout and I feel like it's
woven throughout your book thethread of women being trained to
be desirable and not desiredand to cater to the male gaze as
opposed to their own pleasure.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
First of all, that happens from birth, so that's
all we know.
But what do you think theactual cost of this sort of
training, if you will?
Or yeah, basically beingtrained that way from birth does
to not only us as individualsbut in our intimate life?
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Well, it leaves us one down all the time, because
it is, first of all, it isdeferring to the traditional
power that women have, which isbeauty and being sexually
appealing, and that is not aspowerful in real life as being
(18:37):
able to be assertive, being ableto be smart, being able to be
fully present as you are, tofeel confident that you can
express your opinions and thatyou will be heard.
All of those things that, in acertain way, are real power are
sacrificed on the altar ofbeauty and being sexy, and it
doesn't have to be that it isn'teither, or but so often the
(19:01):
cost is that you the Barbiemovie addressed it to some
extent.
You know, what am I made for?
Am I made for this?
Just to be a beautiful?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
doll.
What does it look like when awoman owns her sexuality?
We've talked about what itmeans.
But I because again, many women, people of all genders are
conditioned in the way that theyare, for women to be desirable,
to be pretty, to be veryperformance-based we don't even
(19:30):
know what it would look like forus to actually own our
sexuality.
But when a woman realizes andowns her sexuality, what does
that look like?
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Well, I think it first of all looks like her
relationship with herself, and Ithink it's really important for
women who have not exploredtheir desires or sexuality
enough to start alone and youknow, and to explore what
actually excites them, whatactually gets them off and what
(20:06):
their fantasies are, and whetherthere's something they want it
acted out or don't want it actedout and don't even want anybody
to know what's in your head,but it's arousing to you.
So there's that.
But being able to believe thatyou have the right to sexual
pleasure is part of it and thatyou want to meet your partner,
(20:28):
whoever that partner is halfwayin creating that.
And that means being able tohave conversations that are
delicate, because what I've seenover and over in my office is
talking about sex is a minefield, because both partners feel
fragile.
The self-esteem is very tiedinto it, and if either one of
(20:53):
you say something that isderogatory, or you know, or I'm
disappointed in you, it's a bigshutdown.
And so being able to uselanguage that is kind, that is
accepting but is also inviting,is a very important part of
owning your own sexuality andinviting your partner to that.
But I think the core thing isreducing shame about the way
(21:15):
your body looks and the way itperforms, and enjoying pleasure
alone, so that you know whatturns you on, what gets you off,
and being able to say, hey, Iknow what I like and I want you
to do that.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
And when a woman owns her sexuality and is able to do
that with a partner, wouldn'tyou say?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
the result is like more incredible, fun, playful,
expansive sex, Definitely, butalso and I thought you were
going to say it is moreself-confidence.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
So much more self-confidence right.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Because believing that you're a sexual person who
has the right to that and you'regood at it and you're willing
to be, have your partner learnhow to be good at it and have
that together, have your partnerlearn how to be good at it and
have that together, is soaffirming of yourself in the
most basic way.
You know that you love yourbody, your partner loves your
(22:16):
body and you give that back.
I mean it's the best scenariofor sexual pleasure that is
broader than just physicalpleasure, is broader than just
physical pleasure.
It's feeling accepted, fullyaccepted, and met where you want
to be met.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I love that you say that it starts in the bedroom
alone for a woman.
I don't love the wordmasturbation, but we all
universally know it.
I like the term self-pleasureor self-love, and something I've
heard from women over and overagain is how uncomfortable they
like, they don't like looking atI like to refer to it as a
pussy.
You might have your ownlanguage, I like calling mine my
(22:56):
pussy.
But vagina they're, they'reequipment, but I'm going to say
pussy.
They don't want to see it.
They feel weird about touchingit, smelling it, all of that
stuff.
And to me, when I hear womensay that, it feels like so much
self-hatred, yes, and when youstart masturbating regularly and
touching your body and thenhaving pleasure and orgasm, it
(23:19):
is this act of self-love.
And when you do it over andexpand that practice, in my
experience you can't help butlove yourself and accept
yourself more.
Right?
Wow, this body can hold thispleasure and give this pleasure,
and I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I think that, starting on that, you know
making love to yourself and ithas nothing to do with how you
look, how your body looks, youknow.
It is purely living it from theinside, not looking at yourself
from the outside and embracingthat.
Your body is an amazing, anamazing thing that can give you
(24:01):
pleasure, and I think a lot ofpeople who have been raised in
very restrictive religiousenvironments have to work much
harder at that to let go of theprohibitions that they have been
taught.
It isn't okay to feel pleasurewith your body.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Right, and I know in some relationships even people
will consider if their partnermasturbates, cheating Right.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
I think sometimes women think that, oh you're.
You know you're jacking off inthe shower every morning.
That's why you don't want me oryou don't need me.
But it's not that.
It's really masturbation.
So, woody Allen, what greatthing about masturbation is you
don't have to look good, but youdon't have to worry about
(24:48):
anybody else's needs.
You can just do it however youlike it and not have to be
anxious about any of it, aboutany of the being judged or
measuring up, and to be able togive that to yourself at least,
is so valuable.
I mean, I have seen marriedwomen who have faked orgasm
(25:12):
their whole married lives anddon't even masturbate, don't
even try to bring them.
You know, it's just, they'vejust disconnected and judged
that part aspect of humanity,their own humanity, and it's so
discounting.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
That's sad it is.
I can't imagine.
I can't imagine going withoutthat pleasure, because that
pleasure like really feeds yourwhole health and your mental
health and how you see the world.
When you feel pleasure in yourbody, then you can see around
you how much beauty and pleasurethere is in the world.
It's just, it's all around youand the different ways your body
(25:50):
is an instrument to receive,whether it's like you know the
breeze on your skin and you'reyou know it's like our bodies
are instruments for pleasure.
In my opinion, but also whatthat means for your partner
because I know I've got a lot ofmen that listen to this podcast
is that when a woman then comesto you and she's learned how to
(26:13):
pleasure her own body withoutworrying about performance or
what it looks like, we can'thelp but get greedy in the
bedroom I know at least I can'tand then pretty soon we're able
to do that in the bedroom with apartner and that sort of
animalistic sex that isn'tperformance-based is so hot to
(26:35):
everybody.
So once you start having reallyincredible orgasms on your own
it's like.
Then you're like why would I dosex without this, right, you
know?
Then you're with your partnerand you're like for me, my
journey was then I'd be with apartner and I'd be kind of
trying to be sexy, and then I'dbe like, well, no, I actually
want an orgasm.
So then I would get into what Iknew worked.
(26:58):
And then to see their facelight up as they see what real
pleasure versus performativepleasure looks like.
They're very different andpeople can feel it when both of
you are in that space.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Right, there's this electricity.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
But it's hard to do that with a partner if you
haven't even learned how to dothat with yourself.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Absolutely.
That is step number one, and Ihave a couple of things to say
about that.
First of all, it's really goodfor your health.
Sexuality giving yourselforgasm lowers your blood
pressure.
It's good for your immunesystem.
There's a tremendous amount ofmedical research about the
physiological benefits of it, sothere's that fits of it.
(27:47):
So there's that, and thenthere's a couple of things that
I think are really helpful forwomen who are shy about this or
not knowing what to do.
One of them is well, two ofthem are books about women's
sexual fantasies.
One of them came out this lastyear by Gillian Anderson.
Oh, I love her.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, she is amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, and the original pioneer on that was
Nancy Friday, my secret yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
My secret garden.
Do you know?
I found that I think I'vementioned it on this podcast
before.
It was the first erotica book Ifound in my mom's drawer when I
I don't I was.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
It must've been very young, I that's I started
masturbating right then andthere I still remember some of
the stories.
But I want to make sure wemention that the book that
Anderson put out Want.
I've got a copy written in bypeople who wanted to say what
(28:43):
their real sexual fantasy is,and sexual fantasy often is not
intended to be acted out.
A lot of people feel that itloses its power if you tell it
to somebody else.
I mean, I have in the past toldsexual fantasies to a number of
men who said, well, let's actthat out, and I've tried it once
(29:04):
or twice and that did not workfor me.
I want complete control of thatstory in my head and a lot of
sexual fantasies are impossibleto act out anyway.
But they have tremendous powerand we all have them and we
didn't invent them intentionally.
They just arrive in our heads,sometimes from a book or reading
(29:25):
about it, but sometimes justfrom some experience.
We develop an idea in our headthat is incredibly arousing to
us and that particular scenarioof fantasy our whole life lasts
as being the trigger that ismost powerful for us.
So there's that.
But the other thing I wanted tosay is that there's a website.
(29:50):
I don't know if you know thewebsite.
Omg, yes, do you know that?
I don't know.
Have you talked about that?
It's so.
It's remarkable in the sensethat they have videotapes of
women of all ages and sizes whoare actually showing their labia
, showing how they like tomasturbate, which is incredibly
brave and so different than anyof the girly magazines or porn
(30:15):
stuff that we see.
It's real people being braveenough to show their faces and
show how they handle themselves,and I think it's incredibly
valuable for diminishing shameand helping you reconnect with
your own body.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
One of the most powerful experiences I had,
because when I was younger I wasvery uncomfortable with my body
.
I had a lot of body dysmorphia.
I couldn't imagine ever goingto a nude beach or any place
where people were naked and I'dhave.
It wasn't about other peoplebeing naked, it was like oh my
(30:51):
god, I can never be naked infront of people.
And I went to in Seattle, maybe.
So Bonnie lives in Portlandwith me, so we are, we are in
the same city.
But in Seattle there is and I'mgoing to put a shout out for it
here the Women's Olympus Spa,and it is only women.
(31:13):
It's this spa that you go into,with big pools of water of all
different temperatures anddifferent rooms that are heated,
and in the spa room with allthe pools you can't wear any
clothes Like, you have to benaked.
And I don't know why I agreed togo the first time I did.
I was terrified.
(31:34):
I was terrified and it wasshortly after I'd had my first
child, so probably worst timingever.
But I go into this room and Isaw women of I mean just I mean
tons of women, all sizes, allbodies, and it was such a
profound moment for me of beinglike oh, I'm just, I'm just
average, right, right, fine, I'mokay, there's nothing weird
(32:00):
about my body and and I couldlook around and see how
beautiful all of these differentwomen were, of all different
sizes and all different ages.
So I think that ties into howyou're saying that the site
OMGES gives people theopportunity to see real women,
real bodies, and how profoundthat can be for I mean, I know,
(32:23):
for other women, but I thinkalso just someone of any gender,
to understand what that reallylooks like.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
And stop comparing yourself to these images that we
are barred and martyred withevery single day.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
And I also want to go back to your mentioning the
book Want.
So Gillian Anderson is, I think, my age maybe a little bit
older, and I bring that upbecause, also, a big part of
owning our sexuality isunderstanding we can reclaim it
or claim it for the first timeat any age and that women of all
(33:03):
ages are sexy, desirousindividuals.
This is not something.
There's a big lie out there,and I hear it, you know, in the
comments from some of the peoplewho listen to my podcast
constantly.
You know, after 30, women don'twant sex.
You're dried up once you're 40,and I'm assuming that you can
(33:24):
verify, along with me, thatthat's absolutely not true.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
I can definitely verify that with you from myself
.
But also you know so many womenI've seen and I you know I
constantly ask my girlfriendsalso what their sex life is like
, because it doesn't seem tocome up in normal conversation.
I ask Otherwise it doesn't comeup as a topic in social
(33:49):
situations, even one-to-one withfriends.
Are they shocked when you ask?
I think they're relievedbecause I go first.
That gives them permission totell me what's going on with
them, but otherwise theywouldn't say anything.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Yeah, no, I in my and , I wonder, my group of
girlfriends primarily comes from.
I'm bisexual and I have abisexual nonprofit and that's
where I've met most of mygirlfriends in more of the LGBTQ
community and we we talk aboutsex all the time, like all the
(34:29):
time.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Well, that is a privilege of being in the LGBT
community that you do giveyourselves and each other
permission to talk about thingsthat seem socially unacceptable
and, you know, in heterosexualsituations, and so I think it's
great.
I think it's great.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
I wonder if some of that is just because our
sexuality is so like in thespotlight.
Anyway, it's hard, you know.
Why not talk about sex whenyour sexuality is already, like
inherently, a focal point ofdebates and judgment and
figuring things out, beingostracized for it.
(35:09):
The bottom line is you canreclaim or claim for the first
time your sexuality, if for manyof us who are in our 50s and
above, 40s and above, you maynot have ever had the
opportunity because it justwasn't talked about until now,
but it's never too late.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Oh my God.
I mean, I had a patient who was80, who was widowed, and she
fell in love with a man you know, I don't think he was quite as
old as she was.
But she said I just can'tbelieve this.
I'm having the most amazingorgasms of my life at 80.
So it does.
There's not a switch that turnsoff.
No, it might be slower, mightbe less, could be less intense,
(35:52):
but it's not gone, nope not atall.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
So let's now focus on .
For women who are right nowlistening to this and going,
okay, I get it, or I'm sodisconnected and sex is a chore.
What are some things that wecan tell them?
They can start doing or theirpartners are listening right now
to start shifting and helpingher reclaim, or claim for the
(36:19):
first time, her sexuality.
What are some steps?
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Well, the first thing I would think about is reading.
There's a couple of books thatI think are incredibly helpful.
The one that just whipped myhead around is Emily Nagoski's
book Come as you Are, becauseshe normalized the fact that if
you're anxious, you're not goingto be able to relax and enjoy
sex the way you want to, and shetalks about all the different
(36:45):
variations that are all normal,so it really helps you have a
better idea about that.
And then Lori Mintz, who's apsychologist, who's a sexologist
.
She wrote a book calledBecoming Clitorate, which
introduces you to your own body,and men should be reading it
too.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
I had Lori Mintz on this podcast.
I will make sure, since you'rementioning it, to link that
interview below, because it wasan incredible book and a really
good interview and if you aregoing to start kind of taking
these steps forward, that's agreat place to start.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Yeah.
So there's that.
And then I do think you startalone really getting to know
your body, giving yourselfpermission to do whatever comes
to your mind to do alone, andthen learning enough to be able
to communicate to your partnerhey, you know what, I've tried
this.
I know you might be surprisedby that, but would you like to
(37:47):
try this with me?
And rather than saying you knowyou haven't been doing anything
I like or this isn't workingnot something critical, but
something inviting Be able tosay let's play, let's not even
worry about orgasm, let's justlet's explore each other's
bodies more.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Oh, that sounds so fun exploring each other's
bodies.
So we start with reading.
We get those books that arereally changing the conversation
about sex, and this isn't justfor women.
This is, for people of allgenders, super important.
And those are two great booksCome as you Are and Becoming
Clitorate Two great places tostart quick reads as well.
(38:27):
Then a self-love, self-pleasurepractice that is extensive
that's what I would say.
Like getting using your hands,getting toys trying different
positions, yes, like and let it,letting your head go crazy
places.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Exactly, you can imagine anything that turns you
on.
You don't have to act it out.
Also, if you do act it out beprepared to lose it as a fantasy
?
Yes, I think so.
Or sometimes it can just kindof lose its power, yeah Right.
But I do think you know peopleshould explore sex toys.
(39:04):
There's some great stores inPortland that have sex toys and
you don't feel like you'rewalking into a store with a lot
of men in raincoats.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I want to harken back to the beginning of your book
where you talk about.
This is a good place to addressthe myth when it comes to
vibrators and toys, how you hadbeen told early on that the big
myth that still exists.
And when I do sex toy reviews,which I have on my YouTube
(39:34):
channel, I get this comment alot that sex toys, vibrators in
particular, ruin women's vaginaslike make them so they aren't
sensitive anymore and they can'tenjoy a penis, and all of that.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Totally not true.
Totally not true.
You can, you know, I mean, youcan get a really intense, fast
orgasm from a vibrator, butthat's not necessarily superior
to being with somebody who loveslicking you and loves feeling
you get more turned on and maybe, you know, gets you close and
then backs off a little bit andgets you to the point where
(40:10):
you're just explode.
I mean, that doesn't replacethat.
It's efficient, efficient.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
And sometimes we need efficiency.
Yes, yes, but it definitelydoes not.
My favorite kind of sex and Ithink most people's is the kind
that is like a long play sessionwhere you are doing that.
Sometimes you're going down oneach other, sometimes you're
penetrating each other,sometimes you're teasing each
other and then you go back tothe oral sex and you change.
(40:38):
You know what I mean.
You go in and out of it beinghard and soft and uh, yeah, it's
hard to replace that kind ofinteraction yeah, but so how?
now?
Let's say, the woman has gone,she's read the books, her
partner's read the book, she's,for whatever period let's say a
month or two been on theself-pleasure journey.
(40:59):
But then there is the barrierof bringing that to your partner
and the fear of what they mightsay or think.
Now that's the leap right.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
It is, and it requires going slowly and
tactfully and not necessarilysharing all that you've learned
about your body right away orwhat you want, but being able to
invite your partner right awayor what you want, but being able
to invite your partner to dosomething different.
(41:32):
You know, let's go sit in a hottub and play with each other a
little bit, or a lot of mendon't want to talk about this,
and so being able to invite itwithout so much dialogue in the
beginning is probably better.
You know some men are great atthat, but the men who are great
(41:54):
at dialogue and are sensitiveenough to be that tuned in on
who you are as a person usuallyare better partners to begin
with sexually than a guy whofeels like he's supposed to know
everything and you know andfeels threatened by you wanting
to talk about it more.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Right, right.
And so for men, if you'recomplaining about not having a
partner who wants sex, or wantsmore sex, or feels passionate in
bed, check yourself.
Are you like carrying judgments?
Are you saying or doing thingsthat shut down her ability to
(42:39):
share and come to you as hertrue self?
Would you freak out if she saidlike?
Would you freak out if she saidlike I want double penetration,
I want you to play with my ass.
You know, I want more oral sex,or I want to use toys, or I
want you to tie me up, I wantyou to bend me over your knee
and spank me.
(42:59):
I want to call you daddy.
Are you going to be able toreceive those things in a way
that doesn't make her feelashamed or embarrassed?
Those?
Speaker 1 (43:09):
are wonderful questions.
I hope men are listening and ifthey say, well, yes, it would
make me feel ashamed orembarrassed then that's the time
to ask yourself what are youcarrying from your childhood
about how sex is supposed to beand how you're supposed to
perform and how you're supposedto perform and maybe it's a huge
source of shame orembarrassment for you and worth
(43:33):
exploring how you can let go ofsome of those stereotypes about
how you're supposed to be.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
I think a woman that has finally gotten to the place
where she's owning her sexualitywon't tolerate that at some
point from a partner.
In my experience as a woman whoworked so hard to reclaim my
sexuality, I can't tolerate thator bother with it in
relationship with a man anymore,because why would I be there?
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Yeah, so I'm right with you on that.
My husband died sadly 15 yearsago, which was a huge loss for
me, and after a few years Istarted dating and there was one
man that I really liked and Iwas very drawn to, and we were
in bed just two or three timesand then, you know, he was
trying to pleasure me with hishand and I said, well, I don't
(44:28):
like it this way, I like it thisway.
And he took his hand away andhe said I don't want you to tell
me what to do, I want todiscover it for myself.
And I was so turned off by thatthat I just thought, no, this
is not going to be for me, is?
Speaker 2 (44:44):
that the last time.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Yeah, yeah.
So hey, that's a great tip,guys.
You just got a firsthandaccount of how you can kill your
own chances with a woman in bed.
Yeah, exactly, you've got to beopen to a little instruction.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Yes and be fine with it.
On the other hand, you know,many years ago, when I was
before I was married, I dated aman who was the exact opposite.
In a half an hour he we were inbed, he had his hand on my
vulva and he said do you like itlike this, do you like it here,
do you like it there, do youlike it there?
(45:23):
In a half an hour he kneweverything he needed to know to
bring me to orgasm and it wasamazing.
It was so great and he just wasconfident enough to ask.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah, and you can do it in a sexy way too.
It's pretty sexy when a guyasks you and wants to know yes,
because it is.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
I mean to me it's a form of enormous intimate love
to say I want to know all aboutyour body.
I want to know what gives youpleasure.
I want to give you pleasure inthe way that it feels good to
you.
It's a great gift and it drawsa woman closer to you.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
And so that is a really powerful place for us to
start wrapping this up.
So we've told you what it meansto own your sexuality, because
I think that's just a core piecethat's even missing from the
narrative when it comes towomen's sexuality.
Most women don't even know whatthat means.
Women don't even know what thatmeans.
(46:26):
And then we've given you whyit's valuable for everybody.
Your sex is going to get better, immensely better.
Life is going to light upbecause you're going to have.
You know people like to doadventures.
They travel and stuff like that.
You can do adventures in bed.
It's every day if you want,right.
And then you gave a great sortof roadmap Get the books, start
(46:50):
educating yourself, startpleasuring yourself and
exploring yourself, and then getthose communication tools from
the men.
You need to take a look atyourself.
Where are you shutting down theintimacy?
Where is your shame coming intoplace?
How are you keeping her fromclaiming her sexuality Right?
Speaker 1 (47:09):
And yeah, the other thing I want to say is some men,
as they age, in their 60s orearly 70s, they have prostate
problems.
They can't necessarily maintainan erection, so they feel like,
well, it's over, for you know,I can't perform, I have nothing
to offer, and that is so, nottrue.
So not true.
I mean, you know, they maystill be able to masturbate, and
(47:30):
that's fine.
You can do it in bed with yourpartner, and that's great, and
you can give your partnerpleasure and that may turn you
on again.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Well, right, if you learn to experience the pleasure
of giving pleasure withoutcoming yourself Like there is an
energetic orgasm that can takeplace just from giving someone
else pleasure.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
And that can be very fulfilling for you and for your
partner right?
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Yes, before we go, I would love for you to tell my
listeners where they can findyou and show them your book.
Your book is out so they canidentify it where they can get
this book.
I think you guys will reallyenjoy this story.
Thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
This is my book cover .
My book is called StayingMarried is the Hardest Part a
memoir of secrets, passion andsacrifice.
It is available anywhere,really, where books are sold.
It is now available digitallyand in print, but there will be
an audio book coming in the nextmonth, so there's that as well.
(48:41):
My website is bonnicomfortcom.
You can go there.
It shows where to buy it, andI'm also on Instagram and
Facebook and LinkedIn as BonnieComfort Author, so I would love
that you found it and found itvaluable.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
I will make sure to share linksto that.
And it is captivating.
It's an easy read because it'spretty fascinating, like right
off the bat, and, again, I thinkthat a lot of people are going
to identify with at least partsof it in their own journey.
(49:20):
So make sure to check it outand you guys know where to find
me.
You can find me over on YouTubeif you are a listener, and my
handle there is atTalkSexWithAnette.
If you're looking for supportin your sex and intimacy life,
my intimacy and sex coachingbooks are open.
You can find out more aboutthat at TalkSexWithAnettecom.
(49:41):
You can reach out to me,annette, at
TalkSexWithAnnettecom.
If you have questions about howto reclaim your sexuality or
how to help your partner do that.
Go to the YouTube channel, findthis video, scroll down and
drop your comment below, yourquestion below, and I will do my
(50:03):
absolute best to get you theanswers that you want and need
to start having better sextonight.
Again, bonnie, thank you somuch for joining me and helping
me help the people out there.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
I think you have a tremendous amount of wisdom and
a great deal to give the peopleout there.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Thank you All right listeners.
Until next time.
I'll see you in the locker room.
Cheers.
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