June 25, 2025 • 45 mins
Licensed clinical social worker and poly coach Emily Lambert Robins joins me for a no‑fluff guide on coming out as polyamorous—gracefully. We unpack the most common slip‑ups, why it can feel scarier than coming out LGBTQ+, and the essential conversations you need to have before going public. You’ll hear real scripts to make the moment smoother, wild reaction stories (and how to handle them), plus how to address family, partners, and fears around losing it all. If you’re curious about a more expansive way to love, this episode gives you the roadmap, compassion, and tools to do it right.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Do the sex pleasure and desire Around here.
Nothing's off limits.
These are the kinds ofconversations we save for our
boldest group chats, our mosttrusted friends and, of course,
the women's locker room.
Think raw, honest and sometimesunapologetically raunchy.
If you've been here from thebeginning, thank you.
And if you're new, welcome tomy podcast.
(00:42):
Where desire meets disruptionand pleasure becomes power.
Now let's talk about sex Cheers.
Today's Talk Sex with Annettetopic is how to come out poly
and not wreck your life.
So you've realized you're poly,or at least you're not wired
(01:03):
for monogamy the way Disneypromised you would be.
Congratulations, you're finallya walking permission slip for
radical love.
But now comes the scary parttelling your partners, your
friends, your parents, andsurviving when Aunt Kathy
clutches her pearls.
That's why I'm bringing in thebig guns today, her pearls.
(01:26):
That's why I'm bringing in thebig guns today.
Emily Lambert Robbins, alicensed clinical social worker,
certified sex therapist and apowerhouse therapist helping
people own their love liveswithout apology, is here to help
us out.
She's going to walk us throughthe messy, magical process of
coming out poly with your sanityand your sex life intact.
But before we dive in, I wantto remind you guys that I'm over
(01:49):
on OnlyFans and there I'msharing my sex and intimacy
how-tos and demonstrations,along with audio guided
self-pleasure meditations and somuch more to help you elevate
your intimate life, startingtonight.
So you can find me there underthe handle at TalkSexWithAnette.
You can also find me onSubstack same handle.
But if you want a really easyway to find me everywhere you
(02:09):
want to find me, you just scrolldown to the notes in this
episode and all of the links arethere.
So come join me.
Emily, will you take a momentto introduce yourself to my
listeners and tell them just alittle bit more about you before
we launch into thisconversation?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Hi everybody.
My name is EmilyLambert-Robbins.
As Annette said, I'm a licensedclinical social worker based
out of New York City.
I have a private practice forthe past 10 years where I've
been working with couples andindividuals an Imago couples
therapist and a sex-certifiedsex therapist.
So I really love working withcouples and individuals, helping
them have the relationshipsthey love and want, being their
authentic selves in their lifeand relationships, having a sex
(02:52):
life that makes them happy andbreaking down a lot of the shame
.
I'm a former attorney turnedtherapist, a little career
changer.
I'm a Jersey girl from NewJersey.
I live in Manhattan right now,live in the Upper West Side.
I'm entirely virtual in mypractice.
I see people in New York,connecticut and New Jersey right
now.
I also run couples retreats andthose are all over.
(03:13):
People from all over thecountry and the world can come
to those in person.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So if you've ever wondered, am I poly or just bad
at monogamy, you're going towant to stay right here, because
you're going to get someclarity on that and also you are
going to get guidance in how togo from thinking you might be
poly or starting to practice, tocoming out and being able to
(03:38):
live authentically, which iswhat most of us want to do right
Like.
Life is much better when youaren't hiding the most important
parts of you.
So stay to the end because, ofcourse, as always, we're going
to give you that go bag of toolsto start living more
authentically, stripping yourlife of shame and figuring out
how to come out as Polly to yourloved ones.
(04:01):
I'm ready to launch into it.
How about you, emily?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
That sounds great.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Let's do it.
Let's talk about coming outpoly.
Let's launch into it.
Emily, what's the biggestfacepalm mistake people make
when they come out as poly?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
I think the biggest facepalm mistake that I've seen
from clients or other you know,friends, people in my life has
been not really thinking throughthe potential consequences of
what some of the risks could bein coming out.
Because it is coming out asPolly is risky and for some
(04:42):
people, you know, for somepeople it could actually be fine
, not really any bumps, but forother people, you know, coming
out Polly could have, they couldsuffer really meaningful losses
, you know, in their life lossof family relationships, loss of
friendships, losing a job,right.
So I think that's the biggestthing is really having to before
(05:03):
you're and it can feel like youwant to be your authentic self
and not live in secrecy, right,and that's for a lot of people
that driving force behind a lotof this, why they want to be
able to be who they are fully,but really having to think
through what would be some ofthe potential negative
consequences if I do come out.
And that's something that Ialways talk to my clients about,
(05:25):
really thinking through thatand also thinking like who are
safe people in my life to comeout to?
Because unfortunately, you know, poly is not something that is
protected when it comes to thelaws in our country for
discrimination and things likethat, and there's a lot of
stigma around it, unfortunately.
You know, I think it's gotten alot better in our country, but
(05:47):
there's still a lot of stigmaand a lot of, I would say, bias
around monogamy right as thenorm, and you know so.
There's no legal protection forthis right, so that means it's
possible to lose your job, right.
You can face discriminationaround child custody potentially
, and adoption, right.
There's real consequences to it.
So I think being able to reallytalk that through whether it's
(06:11):
a therapist, really think aboutit before you do.
I know that's heavy, but it's areality, right.
If thinking about the day andage we're in too.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Well, I was going to say, especially right now, as
far as discriminationprotections go under the new
administration, there are justfewer and fewer protections for
anything that doesn't align withvery conventional ideas of what
relationship and love shouldlook like and sexuality right.
(06:45):
So it probably feels even morerisky today than it did
yesterday.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
I know, I know it's like if you're not in like a
hetero, you know male-femalemarriage, having like six babies
, right, it's like that's whatwe're going for now, I guess, in
the current climate.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, listeners know I live in Portland and for me,
people being poly ornon-monogamous is just.
I don't assume anybody ismonogamous anymore.
That's not an assumption that Ihave, so but I have to remember
that I am in a bubble Like.
That is not how it iseverywhere else.
(07:26):
I'm always shocked when I goeverywhere else and people are
like like Polly, what is that?
Isn't that just for freaks?
I'm like no, like people, allkinds of people, are no longer
monogamous and and a lot ofpeople just hide it.
And these are all kinds ofpeople rich people, poor people,
alternative people, normalpeople.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Right, I'm also in a bubble in New York City.
It's, you know, very, I wouldsay, accepted right, all
different types of communitiesand people here.
But that's not the reality forsome of my friends, my clients
in other parts of even the stateI live in right In upstate New
York or wherever it is Right.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
So it's been said that coming out as poly is often
harder than coming out queer.
Why do you think that is, andis that true?
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, I actually have heard that from clients too
that are queer.
Right, that like this isactually, or they've come out as
lots of different identitiesthat are maybe marginalized, but
coming out as poly people haveI've talked to, said this is the
hardest thing to come out asactually for them, for some
people, because I think there isso much stigma around it and
(08:40):
misunderstanding around it too.
Even I think it was maybe theother day I was in like a
Facebook group and someone wastalking about something and they
even said they talked aboutpolyamory and someone said, oh,
you mean that's the thing whereyou have multiple wives like
polygamy.
I'm like no, so even you got tolike correct me, where there's
a lot of misconceptions, there'sa lot, like I said, of
(09:03):
misunderstanding.
Oh, that means you just want tohave sex with a million people.
Well, maybe, or maybe not Right, or maybe that's not how Polly
looks for you.
So I think that it's just likethere's a lot of emotional labor
that comes with coming out asPolly, because you have so much
explaining to do for people andthat can be exhausting, right,
(09:25):
and it depends almost like yourlifestyle, or like that it's
legit and that it's healthy.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Right.
And that, that education piece,feeling like you have to do
that education piece every timeyou talk about your life and
relationship which can beexhausting, right.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah, I think that's what makes it hard, Because I
think even the conversationaround poly I think it's gotten
a lot better around ethical,non-monogamy polyamory the past
few years only.
Really it's a start to beenmore mainstream in a way, like
talked about, Whereas coming outin other identities, such as
being gay or queer, that's, Ithink, been maybe kind of a
(10:08):
little bit earlier.
That was talked about more.
So we're just kind of likecatching up now in terms of like
polyamory being somethingpeople talk about, if that makes
sense.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
For sure, for sure.
So for someone who's freakingout right now, what is the first
conversation they should havebefore they tell anyone else?
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Well, I always I guess I'd be on by some a
therapist, but I always thinkit's great to talk to a
therapist you know, trustedtherapist about this, where they
might be pathologized for beingpolyamorous.
Oh, is that a sex addiction oris?
Are you just like you can't bemonogamous?
Is that's a bad thing?
So it's actually looking for atherapist who's poly friendly,
who's going to be, you know,works with this population.
(10:51):
I think it's important, you know, first of all, I think the
first part of the conversationis really with yourself.
Number one is thinking aboutwhy is this important to me, to
let people know about this partof myself?
You know, like getting clear onwhat does this mean for your?
Is it an identity for you,right?
(11:11):
Is it a lifestyle, right?
What is it about, Polly?
I think getting clear with itfor yourself, like why is it
that this is a part of me?
You know what is important thatpeople know about this for me,
like with anything.
You know, what would I wantsomeone to know?
And then thinking through, likeI said, some of the negative
consequences, the potentialdownsides, and also thinking
(11:34):
through what are some of thenegative downsides to not coming
out right, like thinking about,you know, if I don't tell
people right about this, aboutmyself, it's hard to keep
secrets, right, and when we keepsecrets, that often perpetuates
a lot of shame.
Right, and there's a certainkind of grief, you know, when
(11:55):
you're not able to be theauthentic version of you, like I
think you were saying in thebeginning, like really be your
authentic self and live openlyas that.
So thinking about that too, thenegative consequences of coming
out, also the negativeconsequences if I don't Right.
And also thinking about comingout doesn't have to mean coming
out to every single person inyour world, right, it could be
(12:19):
coming out to a few safe people,right, maybe that first, or
maybe that's all you do, right,so it doesn't have to be all or
nothing, Like I'm either outposting my Facebook status
telling my Aunt, judy, you know,at Thanksgiving, or nothing.
No, it could be.
Maybe I tell a few friends whoI know are very nonjudgmental,
who I know that that aren'tgoing to shame me for this, or
(12:40):
are going to be asked questions,but in a curious way, not like
a judgy way.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Right.
So sitting down with atherapist could be good for
figuring out those things likedo I need to come out?
And then who am I going to comeout with and who all needs to
know, and why am I making thisdecision for myself?
Speaker 1 (13:05):
for myself, really thinking about what you want to
share with them about this.
You think about like do I wantto share them about my journey
in coming out as you'rediscovering I was poly, or
what's your experience been likewith that?
Do you want to share that?
What drew you to this Like?
Do you feel like it's part ofyour identity?
Why is it meaningful to you?
What adds to your life?
Are there anything that's hardabout it?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Right, and I would imagine, as you accumulate
partners, depending on theseriousness of those partners,
because in poly relationshipssome partners are more like
quote full time partners thanothers who may not ever really
(13:47):
be interested in or in arelationship with you where they
meet the parents or they reallyintegrate fully into your
everyday life, whereas you havesome partners who are or become
those everyday life partners,maybe even nesting partners,
meaning they live with you right.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
If you're in, like you said, depending on the type
of relationships that you're in,you might be in like a triad,
right, or like a polycule, ormaybe you live with multiple
partners, right.
Or maybe you have a nestingpartner or a primary partner,
but then you have a very seriousrelationship with someone else.
It makes things like familyevents or holidays can be very
stressful, right, because whatdo you do?
(14:27):
Do you bring your other partnerto Thanksgiving and say they're
a friend, or do you sleep in aseparate bedroom?
People can feel like it canfeel unsettling.
Let's say, you have a veryimportant partner in your life,
yet you can't bring them toevents, or you feel like you
have to be like oh, this is justmy friend.
So I think that could be reallyhard for people to navigate if
(14:48):
they're not able to be out about.
Hey, these are my two partnersand we all live together and
we're all romantically involved.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Right, it's figuring out how much you can tell.
And then if you've got twopartners you're living with,
then it's like you have tofigure out how to come out.
Enough, assuming that's whateverybody wants.
Which brings me to my nextquestion.
Let's talk partners.
What if you want to come outpoly, but your current partner
(15:20):
thought they signed up formonogamy?
What then?
So I know from personalexperience a lot of people who
go from a monogamous structureto wanting polyamory.
So let's start with thatconversation.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
They've been in a monogamous marriage or
relationship for many years, onepartner or both but usually
it's one who kind of instigatesthe topic, like hey, I think I
want to try this Right, or or itmight come off on.
Sometimes I've seen on theheels of like after infidelity
(16:07):
of many years, and then maybethat has surfaced, and then the
person's like, look, I don'tthink I could actually really do
monogamy, you know, I don'tthink this is really for me.
And then it's also like thenyou're healing from that as well
, and I think that.
So, like I said, I've workedwith a lot of couples on this
and I think it's, you know,really exploring, helping people
explore again the motivationsaround this.
(16:27):
Like, you know, it's changingyour, your relationship
structure and how you know theidentity of you guys as a
monogamous couple, right, andthen, like, all of a sudden
changing that and like what doesthat mean?
You know, what would be some ofthe benefits to changing your
relationship or becomingpolyamorous?
What are some challenges thatmight come up?
(16:47):
You know, talking through that,what are some for the person who
may be more reluctant, likewhat are some of the fears there
?
You know, is this something that, where they want to stretch
into.
You know, and I've seen that,where people maybe are more
reluctant or that's supposed tobe something they would choose
for themselves, but they want tostay with their partner and
they want to support theirpartner, so they're open to
(17:11):
trying it right, even if it maynot be something that they
themselves would do on their own.
So I think, you know, being ableto start having these
conversations they're reallyhard right, because you're and a
lot of people I see are reallymaybe they grew up with a very
like monogamy framework, right.
So like really turning that onits head and thinking about, wow
(17:33):
, like we've been monogamous 20years and now all of a sudden
we're not going to be.
It's like a big mindset shift.
I think there's a lot to talkabout around that and around the
grief and the loss of the oldrelationship too right loss of
the old relationship too rightand also processing some of the.
(17:54):
If there was someone acting asif they were an open
relationship but it wasn't open,like there was infidelity and
things like that, I think thenalso healing from that.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
that has to happen right, so sitting down and
having that conversation, howwould you open it with your
partner?
If you're starting to feel likeyou want to try a different
model, what would yoursuggestion be for launching into
that conversation?
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah, I mean I think leading with you know, always,
like I say, I do Imago couplestherapy and we have something
called the Imago dialogue, whichis like a really beautiful way
of communicating and listeningto each other, where you're
sharing really, as we call it,the sender, the person who's
sharing.
You first make an appointmentwith your partner, so it's like
(18:41):
make checking to see if they'reavailable right to have a
conversation.
So it'd be like you know, hey,I want to talk about.
I've been thinking about youknow something that has been
coming up for me around how I'mviewing relationships or how I'm
viewing what I want out of ourrelationship or out of my life.
You know something around likethinking about monogamy or
(19:03):
different ways we could approachthis like is now a good time to
talk about that and see ifthey're in the space, the
partners in the space, and then,I think, avoiding, like we say
in a model, the nuclear weapons,the blaming, the criticism.
I mean we know this all, butthen, like sometimes in the
moment, we could go to it right,be like well, I want to, I'm
not getting what I need from you, or our sex life isn't good, so
(19:27):
I want to do this, it's fine,it's going to go over that.
Well, right, like so, stickingonto the I right.
So like I'm feeling, like I'vebeen thinking a lot about
wanting to explore something, ormaybe I read something about
polyamory and it spoke to me,you know, about how I want to
maybe approach our romanticrelationship, and it sounds
really appealing and this is why, and this is why, and this is
(19:50):
you know what comes up for meabout this, why I would like it
so like speaking from yourfeelings, your experiences,
instead of like putting outcriticizing the partner or, you
know, coming from a place of,like you know, like a lack in
the relationship, if that makessense.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Right, the second option there is going to go over
way better than the firstoption with the blaming, because
then it just sounds like I'mdissatisfied with this
relationship so I'm trying tofind somebody else and basically
get permission, rather thankind of talking about it as how
it could be a good experiencefor both of you to do together.
Would you say and I don't wantto get off our topic too much
(20:30):
but that it's a good idea toinitiate these kind of
conversations, especially ifthere's been infidelity before
you've healed the infidelity, ordo you think that it's critical
to work through that before youmake that kind of decision?
Speaker 1 (20:49):
I wouldn't say it has to be like linear, like that.
I wish I think in an idealworld maybe right it would be.
It would be like, ok, we healed, we worked through that and now
we're approaching this.
I guess, maybe because whenpeople come to me things, I
think life is like a beautifulmess, you know what I mean.
It's a lot of times maybe we'vehealed some and we're also
(21:12):
talking about becoming poly andwe're in that work, doing that,
and then we have to go back andheal more, right?
So it's never to me, it's notalways so perfect, but that
makes sense.
I think it's okay, cause Ithink the healing is, it's a
process, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yes.
So on the topic of partners,let's say you have been poly for
a little while and you have acouple of partners and you get
to the point where you feel likefor yourself, being able to be
open about being poly is thehealthiest route to go.
You feel the need to tell yourfamily at least, and some
(21:50):
friends and your partner orpartners, even if it's just one
of them, does not want to comeout openly as poly.
How do you navigate thoseconversations?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yeah, and I think you know really, and having a
conversation where you're ableor probably many conversations,
not just one, but where you'rereally able to, we say in a MAGA
like listen, dialogically.
So we're like wait, one personsends and the other person
really just mirrors, justlistens and reflects back what
(22:42):
they're saying.
And I think in this kind ofsituation it would be a lot of
that dialoguing, where oneperson really speaks on why it's
important to come out as polyright, and the other partner
just reflects back and listensdeeply so they can go in their
partner's world and understandwhy it's important and be able
(23:02):
to validate and empathize withthem, and then the other partner
can be able to share here's whyI really don't want to come out
or why I'm really scared aboutthat and like through but only
through, like connection andthrough that deep listening, I
think is there then ability tofigure out what to do.
So I think that's reallyimportant.
(23:25):
How we talk about it as thetype of couples work I do, it's
through this awesome process ofdialoguing, deeply listening and
changing how we listen.
I think that would start fromthere.
And then, once you know more,maybe you hear more about why
it's so important for yourpartner to come out.
Maybe you start to shift right.
(23:45):
Maybe the partner's like, wow,I hear this, you feel like you
know, if you don't come out,this is going to be really just
perpetuate this feeling of shamefor you, or you know, you've
experienced for a lot of yourlife.
And maybe then there's a shiftand like, ok, well, maybe what
if you just come out to a fewfriends that are going to be
really supportive, right, maybeI can live with that, but let's
(24:08):
not post it on Facebook, youknow, or then you might start,
or maybe not, but there's atleast there's an option.
There's like more of anopportunity there.
You know, and you're able tohear your partner's fear hey,
I'm worried about losing my jobif we come out Right.
Or I'm worried about losingcustody of my kid, right and
(24:28):
then be able to hear that, ok,well, of course I don't want
that to happen.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
So how can we make sure that if I do come out to
people like that, that's notgoing to be in jeopardy?
Right, right, you can plantogether.
Yeah, for ways that can workand ways that don't right.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
You can come out to selectpeople.
Like I said, save peopleDoesn't have to be to the world
if you don't want it to be.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Right.
So it sounds like there's a lotof strategic planning and
coming out.
Polly, depending on you knowwhere you live and and the risks
that that there are.
So it sounds like to me one ofthe very first thing is a risk
assessment for everybodyinvolved.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yes, yeah, I think that's the biggest thing I see
as a therapist.
First, my job is really to helppeople sort through the
negative consequences right ofcoming out and the risks, and
then also the risks of notcoming out right.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
So if you could design the dream script for
someone's first coming out convo, what would it sound like?
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Oh, wow, that's a good question.
I'm trying to think because Ithink that's going to be so
dependent on the person, but Ithink I'm just going to say what
comes to my mind for it.
So I'm just going to say I wantyou to know something about me.
This is something that I'msharing with you because I
(26:05):
really value you and ourrelationship.
Right, there's a part about methat you don't know and I feel
it would be really great for youto know this part, because I
value our relationship.
I think it would strengthen ourrelationship if you know this.
I understand you may notunderstand this and there might
(26:25):
be questions that I'm open toanswer.
You know there's a part aboutme and is that I identify as
polyamorous, and I think fromthere you know explaining.
What does that mean for you?
What does that look like orwhat's your journey been?
That's really dependent on theperson, right?
Like I said, polyamory can lookso many different ways.
Right, you could be married andlook to the outside like a
(26:45):
monogamous couple, but maybe youactually have another really
serious partner, right?
Or maybe you're solo poly,right, and you aren't living
with anyone, or aren't marriedand you have many relationships,
but maybe they're more primarypartner, right.
Or maybe you're polyamorous andyou're with a primary partner
but you're not dating anyoneelse at the time, right.
(27:07):
But you still identify as poly.
It's still a part of who youare, so I think it's like
sharing with them.
What does poly mean to you, likein your life?
Like this is what it looks likein my life and this is why it's
meaningful to me and maybe alittle bit of your story of like
a journey with it, when I mayberealized this is something that
(27:38):
you know, maybe's interesting,because I, when I talk to like
teenagers now, you know, like 15, 16 year olds now they're
having these conversations withtheir friends hey, I might be
polyamorous or maybe I'm asexual.
When I was growing up, peopledidn't even come out as gay.
You know, I'm an oldermillennial, so there wasn't even
that talk.
So it's cool.
Now it's very accepting, butagain, it depends an older
millennial, so there wasn't eventhat talk, so it's cool.
Now it's very accepting, butagain, it depends on where you
(28:00):
live, right.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah, no, I think the youth here obviously are.
The concept of poly is like oldto them.
They're like yeah, whatever,yeah, I might be, it does not
stress them out at all, which isinteresting to see how people I
think older well, millennialsand up were still locked in.
(28:23):
We remember conventional livingand the danger around it.
And Gen Z is really interestingto me because they already know
about all this stuff and it'slike they treat it almost like
it's annoying, like who caresWhatever.
Even when it comes to theconcept of cheating, they seem
to be a lot more like yeah,people have.
(28:45):
I mean probably because alltheir parents were trying to be
monogamous and cheating on eachother and getting caught.
But like, let's be honest, likeI don't actually know a
monogamous married couple,either from my parents'
generation or beyond, wherethere hasn't been infidelity.
I suspect I know one couple whomaybe hasn't cheated on some
(29:05):
level, but who knows, I don'tknow anybody who hasn't been in
a monogamous relationship wherethere's been cheating
relationship where there's beencheating.
So I feel like, with Gen Zgrowing up with that and them
knowing like we all think kidsdon't know, but they all know.
They're just kind of like yeah,people are people and make
mistakes and so probablypolyamory makes more sense to
(29:28):
them.
They're like yeah, just be,just be real, please.
And I do see kids like,regardless of what our current
administration wants to do and Ithink even regardless of how
much of a setback there is, genZ is coming and they do not give
two fucks.
They're like.
I think they're more apt toinsist on living authentically
(29:53):
and they know there are optionsout there and you cannot take
the knowledge of options awayfrom people right Once you know.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Yeah, I have a client , a couple I worked with, that
had teenage kids like 18, 17,around that age, and they came
out to their kids they weremonogamous, now they're going to
be polyamorous and the kid'sreaction was more like all right
, cool, what's for dinner?
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Yeah, I've gone through iterations of I've been
monogamous, I've been in an openrelationship, I've kind of
played with a moment in polyworld where I would say it would
be defined as polyamorous, andnow I'm like trying to figure
out what I want my future tolook like.
But my kids I have three kids,and one thing that I haven't
(30:40):
done is I haven't hiddeneverything from them.
I've just been kind of like,yeah, this is where we're at,
your dad and I are at, or whereI'm at now, and they're kind of
like, oh cool, all right, likethey don't care, just like, oh
okay, as long as I'm there andloving them and raising them and
taking care of them, right,they just want me to be happy
(31:02):
and and also, it gives thempermission to have options.
So cool is that?
Speaker 1 (31:09):
right to be able to like that for your kids and be
like look you can like.
Life doesn't have to look likeone way.
Right, and that's what sothere's options for you like.
I'll like.
There's not that because kidsknow, even if you don't.
I think people don't tell kids,but you said maybe generations
above us right, like maybe theparents were monogamous, but
(31:31):
kids know there was stuff goingright and I think a parent
that's living authentically andhappy, like that's number one,
right?
They have a happy mom.
You know I have a 14-month-olddaughter, so my daughter's a
little young for any kind ofconversations like that, but you
know I want her to see me ashappy and living true to myself.
Hopefully that will inspire hertoo.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
It gives them permission to have the life they
want and make decisions forthemselves.
So what is the wildest orweirdest reaction you've ever
heard someone get after comingout as Polly?
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Well, I think it was one of the ones I told you about
in the beginning of theinterview, which is where they
said oh, like, that means youlike the Mormons, like you have
multiple wives or you're like,you know, like like big love or
whatever, like that kind ofthing.
They think we're like living ona compound, you know like, okay
, like, and you have like amillion wives, that kind of
(32:29):
thing.
I think people likesensationalize it like that.
I think that's probably likeone of the weirdest reactions.
Another one that is kind oflike.
I think a reaction that peopleget that is weird but also kind
of funny in a weird way is likeoh, does that?
You must be like bagging amillion people.
Right, you must be having sexevery night of the week.
(32:51):
Oh, you don't also have a joband kids and the mortgage and
stuff like that.
It's like you just having sexall the time.
It's like, well, maybe someoneis, but also maybe not A lot of.
It's like we're still regularpeople.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
You know Right Like, yeah, this idea that there's
just sex parties going on everynight and Monday night.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
You know, it's like it's a Monday night.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
There's no sex party tonight.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Like well, maybe I'll put my kid to bed and make a
dinner and go to bed at nine,you know right.
Right.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
It's like this normal people.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
So is there?
You've named a couple, but isthere another prevalent myth
about polyamory that you hearall the time that you wish you
could just squash put an end toofficially?
Speaker 1 (33:38):
I think, yeah, I all the time that you wish you could
just squash, put an end toofficially.
I think, yeah, I think I namedthe biggest ones, or that it's
that it all is the same foreveryone.
One in terms of like poly meanslooks the same for everyone.
That's a big myth because itdoes it right.
What you want out ofpolyamorous relationships is the
same, right?
People can want many differentthings, right?
(33:59):
Some people are really looking alot for deep emotional
connection and want maybe onlyone or two partners.
Other people, maybe it's moreabout sex and more about the
(34:24):
physical.
For other people, they reallywant maybe have a primary
partner.
Other people, they'rerelationship anarchists and they
don't want any hierarchy andall of this can be polyamory.
So I an identity that theyalmost as if like you know
people you're like hey, Irealize I'm queer, right, and
that's a part of my identity.
This becomes part of people'sidentity and not something
(34:46):
necessarily that they knewreally early on that this
actually feels right to thembefore they can even be put into
words.
You know that actually.
I think this is who I am.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I think there are people who actually identify as
their relationship style becomesan identity, in that some
people feel like, look, I'm justwired for monogamy, I can't.
And I would say to those peoplewell, first you got to make sure
that you're wired for monogamyand you're not programmed for
(35:18):
monogamy, because of coursewe're programmed from day one in
this society.
But I do think there are peoplewho are just like this that one
person is enough for me.
Anything more sounds miserable.
And there are some people whoare like, no, like I can just
tell, like I'm someone who canlove multiple people and have
multiple relationships in mylife and I like that.
(35:39):
And then there's a new termthat has come out that I do want
to dive into in a podcastepisode itself called I believe
it's ambiamory, where someonefeels like they can be either,
like I can do monogamy and I cando polyamory, identify with
just one, but I think I can movebetween them both.
(36:00):
And it's more and more commonthat people are looking at their
relationship style preferenceas an actual identity, as you
would look at your sexuality.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Exactly, exactly, and I actually haven't heard of the
term, is it ambiamory?
It's cool, I mean.
I think it just also shows likethere's fluidity, right, like
we're not, we're evolving, we'realways evolving and depending
on our life, depending oncircumstances, like you know,
like you don't have to, there'sflexibility, you know, right,
like you might start out asmonogamous with somebody and
(36:32):
then the two of you realize, hey, we've created this really
secure connection.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Maybe we want to open up a little and see what that
looks like, especially if youthink about how long we live now
and how long relationships lastnow.
You know people were intomonogamy when you died at 35,
right, maybe 10 years ofmarriage maybe.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Well right, it's like all right, I'm living at 35, 10
years of monogamy, all right.
I guess I could do that.
You know 15, 20, 30, like, comeon.
But now we're living to what?
90s?
Speaker 2 (37:06):
hopefully, right we're trying to do and we're
banging all the way to death,like people are having sex well
into their 70s and 80s, right soyeah, doing they should.
Yeah, as they should.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Doing that with one person, the rest of your life
can feel for a lot of peoplemaybe not what they want you
know, or maybe that sounds likeI don't know about that.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Right.
So we've talked about the risks, but what I would like to look
at next is what's the biggestgift you've seen come out of
people living openly as poly.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
I've seen there's this term in the Mago couples
therapy that is called joyfulaliveness and the idea is that
we're all born fully, whole,like fully who.
We need to be joyfully aliveright.
And then, as we go through life, certain things dim that
aliveness, certain traumas orexperiences, and part of the
journey of life is to reclaimthat joyful aliveness.
(38:05):
And when I've seen people beable to come out, you know, and
be their authentic selves andlive fully in that way, I see
such joyful alveness, like it'samazing, you know, seeing people
become just lighter, happier,you know, and it's like, could
(38:25):
almost be like sometimes a wholenew person that you see emerge,
you know, when the weight ofthe shame or the secrecy has
been weighing someone down for along time and then they're out
and feeling like they're livingtheir truth.
That's a beautiful thing, youknow, and I think could be an
amazing transformation and bringa lot of joy to people.
(38:45):
And also seeing people acceptthem and love them.
Well, what an experience to belike.
This is who I am, you know, andhave people embrace that.
That's the ideal right To havepeople embrace it and be like
and have people embrace that.
That's the ideal right To havepeople embrace it and be like I
love you, and that's awesome.
I'm so happy for you.
That's amazing.
If you could have thatexperience.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
We've talked about the risks.
We've talked about the gifts.
Before we go, can you give mylisteners?
Let's say there's some outthere tonight.
They're ready to either comeout to their partner or their
family.
Where do they start?
What are some things they canstart doing tonight, tomorrow,
this week, to live moreauthentically?
(39:29):
What would your roadmap?
Speaker 1 (39:32):
be, I think, first, maybe sitting with yourself, you
know, and maybe writing down alittle bit about, you know,
reflecting on your own journey,you know, a romantic journey and
journey to like realizing yourpoly, you know, thinking about
what that's looked like for you,Thinking about, maybe, what
(39:55):
polyamory has given you or whatyou if it's not something that
maybe you've explored yet, butwant to explore like why you
want to do this right, why youwant to explore this and really
start to like just kind of likejournal or think about it, right
, and then think about who issomeone that I feel I could
start to share this with, reallysome of these thoughts I'm
having, and I would say picklike one person right that feels
(40:19):
safe to you, that maybe that isyour partner, right, or maybe
that's your therapist, or maybethat's the best friend, and
start to have the conversationwith them and see how that feels
.
I don't know about you, but I'mhonored if someone comes to me
like, hey, I want to sharesomething that I haven't told
anyone else.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
All right, guys, there you go.
You know where your startingpoint is.
So now, emily, can you telleverybody where they can find
you if you know they want toreach out to you for some
guidance or to find out moreabout what you do?
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Sure, you can find me at my website,
emilylambertrobbinscom.
The website is the best way toreach me.
You can reach out through there.
I have a newsletter.
I also run free monthlywebinars on Imago Couples
Therapy.
You can find out informationabout my couples retreats, more
about the work I do and, yeah,that's the best place to start.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
So, folks, coming out as Polly isn't just a
conversation.
It's a revolution inside yourlife, your relationships and the
way you claim your pleasure.
Huge thanks to Emily for givingus a roadmap and the real talk
we all need.
I want to remind you, if youguys are looking for an intimacy
coach or a cheerleader in yourown self-pleasure journey, my
(41:36):
books are open right now and youcan find out more about that at
TalkSexWithAnnettecom.
If you have questions aboutwhat you've heard in this
episode or viewed in thisepisode, if you're on my YouTube
channel, which is atTalkSexWithAnnette, you can just
drop your comment below thevideo.
You can also reach out to medirectly at Annette at
TalkSexWithAnnettecom.
(41:56):
You can scroll down to thenotes below and you will find my
speak pipe.
You can send me a voice messageand I will do my best to get
all of your questions answeredas soon as possible.
Emily, thank you again forjoining me for this conversation
.
Thank you so much for having me.
This was so much fun it was,and until next time, folks, I'll
(42:20):
see you in the locker room.
Cheers.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Cheers.
Do the sex pleasure and desire Around here.
Nothing's off limits.
These are the kinds ofconversations we save for our
boldest group chats, our mosttrusted friends and, of course,
the women's locker room.
Think raw, honest and sometimesunapologetically raunchy.
If you've been here from thebeginning, thank you.
And if you're new, welcome tomy podcast.
(00:42):
Where desire meets disruptionand pleasure becomes power.
Now let's talk about sex Cheers.
Today's Talk Sex with Annettetopic is how to come out poly
and not wreck your life.
So you've realized you're poly,or at least you're not wired
(01:03):
for monogamy the way Disneypromised you would be.
Congratulations, you're finallya walking permission slip for
radical love.
But now comes the scary parttelling your partners, your
friends, your parents, andsurviving when Aunt Kathy
clutches her pearls.
That's why I'm bringing in thebig guns today, her pearls.
(01:26):
That's why I'm bringing in thebig guns today.
Emily Lambert Robbins, alicensed clinical social worker,
certified sex therapist and apowerhouse therapist helping
people own their love liveswithout apology, is here to help
us out.
She's going to walk us throughthe messy, magical process of
coming out poly with your sanityand your sex life intact.
But before we dive in, I wantto remind you guys that I'm over
(01:49):
on OnlyFans and there I'msharing my sex and intimacy
how-tos and demonstrations,along with audio guided
self-pleasure meditations and somuch more to help you elevate
your intimate life, startingtonight.
So you can find me there underthe handle at TalkSexWithAnette.
You can also find me onSubstack same handle.
But if you want a really easyway to find me everywhere you
(02:09):
want to find me, you just scrolldown to the notes in this
episode and all of the links arethere.
So come join me.
Emily, will you take a momentto introduce yourself to my
listeners and tell them just alittle bit more about you before
we launch into thisconversation?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Hi everybody.
My name is EmilyLambert-Robbins.
As Annette said, I'm a licensedclinical social worker based
out of New York City.
I have a private practice forthe past 10 years where I've
been working with couples andindividuals an Imago couples
therapist and a sex-certifiedsex therapist.
So I really love working withcouples and individuals, helping
them have the relationshipsthey love and want, being their
authentic selves in their lifeand relationships, having a sex
(02:52):
life that makes them happy andbreaking down a lot of the shame
.
I'm a former attorney turnedtherapist, a little career
changer.
I'm a Jersey girl from NewJersey.
I live in Manhattan right now,live in the Upper West Side.
I'm entirely virtual in mypractice.
I see people in New York,connecticut and New Jersey right
now.
I also run couples retreats andthose are all over.
(03:13):
People from all over thecountry and the world can come
to those in person.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So if you've ever wondered, am I poly or just bad
at monogamy, you're going towant to stay right here, because
you're going to get someclarity on that and also you are
going to get guidance in how togo from thinking you might be
poly or starting to practice, tocoming out and being able to
(03:38):
live authentically, which iswhat most of us want to do right
Like.
Life is much better when youaren't hiding the most important
parts of you.
So stay to the end because, ofcourse, as always, we're going
to give you that go bag of toolsto start living more
authentically, stripping yourlife of shame and figuring out
how to come out as Polly to yourloved ones.
(04:01):
I'm ready to launch into it.
How about you, emily?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
That sounds great.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Let's do it.
Let's talk about coming outpoly.
Let's launch into it.
Emily, what's the biggestfacepalm mistake people make
when they come out as poly?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
I think the biggest facepalm mistake that I've seen
from clients or other you know,friends, people in my life has
been not really thinking throughthe potential consequences of
what some of the risks could bein coming out.
Because it is coming out asPolly is risky and for some
(04:42):
people, you know, for somepeople it could actually be fine
, not really any bumps, but forother people, you know, coming
out Polly could have, they couldsuffer really meaningful losses
, you know, in their life lossof family relationships, loss of
friendships, losing a job,right.
So I think that's the biggestthing is really having to before
(05:03):
you're and it can feel like youwant to be your authentic self
and not live in secrecy, right,and that's for a lot of people
that driving force behind a lotof this, why they want to be
able to be who they are fully,but really having to think
through what would be some ofthe potential negative
consequences if I do come out.
And that's something that Ialways talk to my clients about,
(05:25):
really thinking through thatand also thinking like who are
safe people in my life to comeout to?
Because unfortunately, you know, poly is not something that is
protected when it comes to thelaws in our country for
discrimination and things likethat, and there's a lot of
stigma around it, unfortunately.
You know, I think it's gotten alot better in our country, but
(05:47):
there's still a lot of stigmaand a lot of, I would say, bias
around monogamy right as thenorm, and you know so.
There's no legal protection forthis right, so that means it's
possible to lose your job, right.
You can face discriminationaround child custody potentially
, and adoption, right.
There's real consequences to it.
So I think being able to reallytalk that through whether it's
(06:11):
a therapist, really think aboutit before you do.
I know that's heavy, but it's areality, right.
If thinking about the day andage we're in too.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Well, I was going to say, especially right now, as
far as discriminationprotections go under the new
administration, there are justfewer and fewer protections for
anything that doesn't align withvery conventional ideas of what
relationship and love shouldlook like and sexuality right.
(06:45):
So it probably feels even morerisky today than it did
yesterday.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
I know, I know it's like if you're not in like a
hetero, you know male-femalemarriage, having like six babies
, right, it's like that's whatwe're going for now, I guess, in
the current climate.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, listeners know I live in Portland and for me,
people being poly ornon-monogamous is just.
I don't assume anybody ismonogamous anymore.
That's not an assumption that Ihave, so but I have to remember
that I am in a bubble Like.
That is not how it iseverywhere else.
(07:26):
I'm always shocked when I goeverywhere else and people are
like like Polly, what is that?
Isn't that just for freaks?
I'm like no, like people, allkinds of people, are no longer
monogamous and and a lot ofpeople just hide it.
And these are all kinds ofpeople rich people, poor people,
alternative people, normalpeople.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Right, I'm also in a bubble in New York City.
It's, you know, very, I wouldsay, accepted right, all
different types of communitiesand people here.
But that's not the reality forsome of my friends, my clients
in other parts of even the stateI live in right In upstate New
York or wherever it is Right.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
So it's been said that coming out as poly is often
harder than coming out queer.
Why do you think that is, andis that true?
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, I actually have heard that from clients too
that are queer.
Right, that like this isactually, or they've come out as
lots of different identitiesthat are maybe marginalized, but
coming out as poly people haveI've talked to, said this is the
hardest thing to come out asactually for them, for some
people, because I think there isso much stigma around it and
(08:40):
misunderstanding around it too.
Even I think it was maybe theother day I was in like a
Facebook group and someone wastalking about something and they
even said they talked aboutpolyamory and someone said, oh,
you mean that's the thing whereyou have multiple wives like
polygamy.
I'm like no, so even you got tolike correct me, where there's
a lot of misconceptions, there'sa lot, like I said, of
(09:03):
misunderstanding.
Oh, that means you just want tohave sex with a million people.
Well, maybe, or maybe not Right, or maybe that's not how Polly
looks for you.
So I think that it's just likethere's a lot of emotional labor
that comes with coming out asPolly, because you have so much
explaining to do for people andthat can be exhausting, right,
(09:25):
and it depends almost like yourlifestyle, or like that it's
legit and that it's healthy.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Right.
And that, that education piece,feeling like you have to do
that education piece every timeyou talk about your life and
relationship which can beexhausting, right.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah, I think that's what makes it hard, Because I
think even the conversationaround poly I think it's gotten
a lot better around ethical,non-monogamy polyamory the past
few years only.
Really it's a start to beenmore mainstream in a way, like
talked about, Whereas coming outin other identities, such as
being gay or queer, that's, Ithink, been maybe kind of a
(10:08):
little bit earlier.
That was talked about more.
So we're just kind of likecatching up now in terms of like
polyamory being somethingpeople talk about, if that makes
sense.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
For sure, for sure.
So for someone who's freakingout right now, what is the first
conversation they should havebefore they tell anyone else?
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Well, I always I guess I'd be on by some a
therapist, but I always thinkit's great to talk to a
therapist you know, trustedtherapist about this, where they
might be pathologized for beingpolyamorous.
Oh, is that a sex addiction oris?
Are you just like you can't bemonogamous?
Is that's a bad thing?
So it's actually looking for atherapist who's poly friendly,
who's going to be, you know,works with this population.
(10:51):
I think it's important, you know, first of all, I think the
first part of the conversationis really with yourself.
Number one is thinking aboutwhy is this important to me, to
let people know about this partof myself?
You know, like getting clear onwhat does this mean for your?
Is it an identity for you,right?
(11:11):
Is it a lifestyle, right?
What is it about, Polly?
I think getting clear with itfor yourself, like why is it
that this is a part of me?
You know what is important thatpeople know about this for me,
like with anything.
You know, what would I wantsomeone to know?
And then thinking through, likeI said, some of the negative
consequences, the potentialdownsides, and also thinking
(11:34):
through what are some of thenegative downsides to not coming
out right, like thinking about,you know, if I don't tell
people right about this, aboutmyself, it's hard to keep
secrets, right, and when we keepsecrets, that often perpetuates
a lot of shame.
Right, and there's a certainkind of grief, you know, when
(11:55):
you're not able to be theauthentic version of you, like I
think you were saying in thebeginning, like really be your
authentic self and live openlyas that.
So thinking about that too, thenegative consequences of coming
out, also the negativeconsequences if I don't Right.
And also thinking about comingout doesn't have to mean coming
out to every single person inyour world, right, it could be
(12:19):
coming out to a few safe people,right, maybe that first, or
maybe that's all you do, right,so it doesn't have to be all or
nothing, Like I'm either outposting my Facebook status
telling my Aunt, judy, you know,at Thanksgiving, or nothing.
No, it could be.
Maybe I tell a few friends whoI know are very nonjudgmental,
who I know that that aren'tgoing to shame me for this, or
(12:40):
are going to be asked questions,but in a curious way, not like
a judgy way.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Right.
So sitting down with atherapist could be good for
figuring out those things likedo I need to come out?
And then who am I going to comeout with and who all needs to
know, and why am I making thisdecision for myself?
Speaker 1 (13:05):
for myself, really thinking about what you want to
share with them about this.
You think about like do I wantto share them about my journey
in coming out as you'rediscovering I was poly, or
what's your experience been likewith that?
Do you want to share that?
What drew you to this Like?
Do you feel like it's part ofyour identity?
Why is it meaningful to you?
What adds to your life?
Are there anything that's hardabout it?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Right, and I would imagine, as you accumulate
partners, depending on theseriousness of those partners,
because in poly relationshipssome partners are more like
quote full time partners thanothers who may not ever really
(13:47):
be interested in or in arelationship with you where they
meet the parents or they reallyintegrate fully into your
everyday life, whereas you havesome partners who are or become
those everyday life partners,maybe even nesting partners,
meaning they live with you right.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
If you're in, like you said, depending on the type
of relationships that you're in,you might be in like a triad,
right, or like a polycule, ormaybe you live with multiple
partners, right.
Or maybe you have a nestingpartner or a primary partner,
but then you have a very seriousrelationship with someone else.
It makes things like familyevents or holidays can be very
stressful, right, because whatdo you do?
(14:27):
Do you bring your other partnerto Thanksgiving and say they're
a friend, or do you sleep in aseparate bedroom?
People can feel like it canfeel unsettling.
Let's say, you have a veryimportant partner in your life,
yet you can't bring them toevents, or you feel like you
have to be like oh, this is justmy friend.
So I think that could be reallyhard for people to navigate if
(14:48):
they're not able to be out about.
Hey, these are my two partnersand we all live together and
we're all romantically involved.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Right, it's figuring out how much you can tell.
And then if you've got twopartners you're living with,
then it's like you have tofigure out how to come out.
Enough, assuming that's whateverybody wants.
Which brings me to my nextquestion.
Let's talk partners.
What if you want to come outpoly, but your current partner
(15:20):
thought they signed up formonogamy?
What then?
So I know from personalexperience a lot of people who
go from a monogamous structureto wanting polyamory.
So let's start with thatconversation.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
They've been in a monogamous marriage or
relationship for many years, onepartner or both but usually
it's one who kind of instigatesthe topic, like hey, I think I
want to try this Right, or or itmight come off on.
Sometimes I've seen on theheels of like after infidelity
(16:07):
of many years, and then maybethat has surfaced, and then the
person's like, look, I don'tthink I could actually really do
monogamy, you know, I don'tthink this is really for me.
And then it's also like thenyou're healing from that as well
, and I think that.
So, like I said, I've workedwith a lot of couples on this
and I think it's, you know,really exploring, helping people
explore again the motivationsaround this.
(16:27):
Like, you know, it's changingyour, your relationship
structure and how you know theidentity of you guys as a
monogamous couple, right, andthen, like, all of a sudden
changing that and like what doesthat mean?
You know, what would be some ofthe benefits to changing your
relationship or becomingpolyamorous?
What are some challenges thatmight come up?
(16:47):
You know, talking through that,what are some for the person who
may be more reluctant, likewhat are some of the fears there
?
You know, is this something that, where they want to stretch
into.
You know, and I've seen that,where people maybe are more
reluctant or that's supposed tobe something they would choose
for themselves, but they want tostay with their partner and
they want to support theirpartner, so they're open to
(17:11):
trying it right, even if it maynot be something that they
themselves would do on their own.
So I think, you know, being ableto start having these
conversations they're reallyhard right, because you're and a
lot of people I see are reallymaybe they grew up with a very
like monogamy framework, right.
So like really turning that onits head and thinking about, wow
(17:33):
, like we've been monogamous 20years and now all of a sudden
we're not going to be.
It's like a big mindset shift.
I think there's a lot to talkabout around that and around the
grief and the loss of the oldrelationship too right loss of
the old relationship too rightand also processing some of the.
(17:54):
If there was someone acting asif they were an open
relationship but it wasn't open,like there was infidelity and
things like that, I think thenalso healing from that.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
that has to happen right, so sitting down and
having that conversation, howwould you open it with your
partner?
If you're starting to feel likeyou want to try a different
model, what would yoursuggestion be for launching into
that conversation?
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah, I mean I think leading with you know, always,
like I say, I do Imago couplestherapy and we have something
called the Imago dialogue, whichis like a really beautiful way
of communicating and listeningto each other, where you're
sharing really, as we call it,the sender, the person who's
sharing.
You first make an appointmentwith your partner, so it's like
(18:41):
make checking to see if they'reavailable right to have a
conversation.
So it'd be like you know, hey,I want to talk about.
I've been thinking about youknow something that has been
coming up for me around how I'mviewing relationships or how I'm
viewing what I want out of ourrelationship or out of my life.
You know something around likethinking about monogamy or
(19:03):
different ways we could approachthis like is now a good time to
talk about that and see ifthey're in the space, the
partners in the space, and then,I think, avoiding, like we say
in a model, the nuclear weapons,the blaming, the criticism.
I mean we know this all, butthen, like sometimes in the
moment, we could go to it right,be like well, I want to, I'm
not getting what I need from you, or our sex life isn't good, so
(19:27):
I want to do this, it's fine,it's going to go over that.
Well, right, like so, stickingonto the I right.
So like I'm feeling, like I'vebeen thinking a lot about
wanting to explore something, ormaybe I read something about
polyamory and it spoke to me,you know, about how I want to
maybe approach our romanticrelationship, and it sounds
really appealing and this is why, and this is why, and this is
(19:50):
you know what comes up for meabout this, why I would like it
so like speaking from yourfeelings, your experiences,
instead of like putting outcriticizing the partner or, you
know, coming from a place of,like you know, like a lack in
the relationship, if that makessense.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Right, the second option there is going to go over
way better than the firstoption with the blaming, because
then it just sounds like I'mdissatisfied with this
relationship so I'm trying tofind somebody else and basically
get permission, rather thankind of talking about it as how
it could be a good experiencefor both of you to do together.
Would you say and I don't wantto get off our topic too much
(20:30):
but that it's a good idea toinitiate these kind of
conversations, especially ifthere's been infidelity before
you've healed the infidelity, ordo you think that it's critical
to work through that before youmake that kind of decision?
Speaker 1 (20:49):
I wouldn't say it has to be like linear, like that.
I wish I think in an idealworld maybe right it would be.
It would be like, ok, we healed, we worked through that and now
we're approaching this.
I guess, maybe because whenpeople come to me things, I
think life is like a beautifulmess, you know what I mean.
It's a lot of times maybe we'vehealed some and we're also
(21:12):
talking about becoming poly andwe're in that work, doing that,
and then we have to go back andheal more, right?
So it's never to me, it's notalways so perfect, but that
makes sense.
I think it's okay, cause Ithink the healing is, it's a
process, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yes.
So on the topic of partners,let's say you have been poly for
a little while and you have acouple of partners and you get
to the point where you feel likefor yourself, being able to be
open about being poly is thehealthiest route to go.
You feel the need to tell yourfamily at least, and some
(21:50):
friends and your partner orpartners, even if it's just one
of them, does not want to comeout openly as poly.
How do you navigate thoseconversations?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yeah, and I think you know really, and having a
conversation where you're ableor probably many conversations,
not just one, but where you'rereally able to, we say in a MAGA
like listen, dialogically.
So we're like wait, one personsends and the other person
really just mirrors, justlistens and reflects back what
(22:42):
they're saying.
And I think in this kind ofsituation it would be a lot of
that dialoguing, where oneperson really speaks on why it's
important to come out as polyright, and the other partner
just reflects back and listensdeeply so they can go in their
partner's world and understandwhy it's important and be able
(23:02):
to validate and empathize withthem, and then the other partner
can be able to share here's whyI really don't want to come out
or why I'm really scared aboutthat and like through but only
through, like connection andthrough that deep listening, I
think is there then ability tofigure out what to do.
So I think that's reallyimportant.
(23:25):
How we talk about it as thetype of couples work I do, it's
through this awesome process ofdialoguing, deeply listening and
changing how we listen.
I think that would start fromthere.
And then, once you know more,maybe you hear more about why
it's so important for yourpartner to come out.
Maybe you start to shift right.
(23:45):
Maybe the partner's like, wow,I hear this, you feel like you
know, if you don't come out,this is going to be really just
perpetuate this feeling of shamefor you, or you know, you've
experienced for a lot of yourlife.
And maybe then there's a shiftand like, ok, well, maybe what
if you just come out to a fewfriends that are going to be
really supportive, right, maybeI can live with that, but let's
(24:08):
not post it on Facebook, youknow, or then you might start,
or maybe not, but there's atleast there's an option.
There's like more of anopportunity there.
You know, and you're able tohear your partner's fear hey,
I'm worried about losing my jobif we come out Right.
Or I'm worried about losingcustody of my kid, right and
(24:28):
then be able to hear that, ok,well, of course I don't want
that to happen.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
So how can we make sure that if I do come out to
people like that, that's notgoing to be in jeopardy?
Right, right, you can plantogether.
Yeah, for ways that can workand ways that don't right.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
You can come out to selectpeople.
Like I said, save peopleDoesn't have to be to the world
if you don't want it to be.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Right.
So it sounds like there's a lotof strategic planning and
coming out.
Polly, depending on you knowwhere you live and and the risks
that that there are.
So it sounds like to me one ofthe very first thing is a risk
assessment for everybodyinvolved.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yes, yeah, I think that's the biggest thing I see
as a therapist.
First, my job is really to helppeople sort through the
negative consequences right ofcoming out and the risks, and
then also the risks of notcoming out right.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
So if you could design the dream script for
someone's first coming out convo, what would it sound like?
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Oh, wow, that's a good question.
I'm trying to think because Ithink that's going to be so
dependent on the person, but Ithink I'm just going to say what
comes to my mind for it.
So I'm just going to say I wantyou to know something about me.
This is something that I'msharing with you because I
(26:05):
really value you and ourrelationship.
Right, there's a part about methat you don't know and I feel
it would be really great for youto know this part, because I
value our relationship.
I think it would strengthen ourrelationship if you know this.
I understand you may notunderstand this and there might
(26:25):
be questions that I'm open toanswer.
You know there's a part aboutme and is that I identify as
polyamorous, and I think fromthere you know explaining.
What does that mean for you?
What does that look like orwhat's your journey been?
That's really dependent on theperson, right?
Like I said, polyamory can lookso many different ways.
Right, you could be married andlook to the outside like a
(26:45):
monogamous couple, but maybe youactually have another really
serious partner, right?
Or maybe you're solo poly,right, and you aren't living
with anyone, or aren't marriedand you have many relationships,
but maybe they're more primarypartner, right.
Or maybe you're polyamorous andyou're with a primary partner
but you're not dating anyoneelse at the time, right.
(27:07):
But you still identify as poly.
It's still a part of who youare, so I think it's like
sharing with them.
What does poly mean to you, likein your life?
Like this is what it looks likein my life and this is why it's
meaningful to me and maybe alittle bit of your story of like
a journey with it, when I mayberealized this is something that
(27:38):
you know, maybe's interesting,because I, when I talk to like
teenagers now, you know, like 15, 16 year olds now they're
having these conversations withtheir friends hey, I might be
polyamorous or maybe I'm asexual.
When I was growing up, peopledidn't even come out as gay.
You know, I'm an oldermillennial, so there wasn't even
that talk.
So it's cool.
Now it's very accepting, butagain, it depends an older
millennial, so there wasn't eventhat talk, so it's cool.
Now it's very accepting, butagain, it depends on where you
(28:00):
live, right.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah, no, I think the youth here obviously are.
The concept of poly is like oldto them.
They're like yeah, whatever,yeah, I might be, it does not
stress them out at all, which isinteresting to see how people I
think older well, millennialsand up were still locked in.
(28:23):
We remember conventional livingand the danger around it.
And Gen Z is really interestingto me because they already know
about all this stuff and it'slike they treat it almost like
it's annoying, like who caresWhatever.
Even when it comes to theconcept of cheating, they seem
to be a lot more like yeah,people have.
(28:45):
I mean probably because alltheir parents were trying to be
monogamous and cheating on eachother and getting caught.
But like, let's be honest, likeI don't actually know a
monogamous married couple,either from my parents'
generation or beyond, wherethere hasn't been infidelity.
I suspect I know one couple whomaybe hasn't cheated on some
(29:05):
level, but who knows, I don'tknow anybody who hasn't been in
a monogamous relationship wherethere's been cheating
relationship where there's beencheating.
So I feel like, with Gen Zgrowing up with that and them
knowing like we all think kidsdon't know, but they all know.
They're just kind of like yeah,people are people and make
mistakes and so probablypolyamory makes more sense to
(29:28):
them.
They're like yeah, just be,just be real, please.
And I do see kids like,regardless of what our current
administration wants to do and Ithink even regardless of how
much of a setback there is, genZ is coming and they do not give
two fucks.
They're like.
I think they're more apt toinsist on living authentically
(29:53):
and they know there are optionsout there and you cannot take
the knowledge of options awayfrom people right Once you know.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Yeah, I have a client , a couple I worked with, that
had teenage kids like 18, 17,around that age, and they came
out to their kids they weremonogamous, now they're going to
be polyamorous and the kid'sreaction was more like all right
, cool, what's for dinner?
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Yeah, I've gone through iterations of I've been
monogamous, I've been in an openrelationship, I've kind of
played with a moment in polyworld where I would say it would
be defined as polyamorous, andnow I'm like trying to figure
out what I want my future tolook like.
But my kids I have three kids,and one thing that I haven't
(30:40):
done is I haven't hiddeneverything from them.
I've just been kind of like,yeah, this is where we're at,
your dad and I are at, or whereI'm at now, and they're kind of
like, oh cool, all right, likethey don't care, just like, oh
okay, as long as I'm there andloving them and raising them and
taking care of them, right,they just want me to be happy
(31:02):
and and also, it gives thempermission to have options.
So cool is that?
Speaker 1 (31:09):
right to be able to like that for your kids and be
like look you can like.
Life doesn't have to look likeone way.
Right, and that's what sothere's options for you like.
I'll like.
There's not that because kidsknow, even if you don't.
I think people don't tell kids,but you said maybe generations
above us right, like maybe theparents were monogamous, but
(31:31):
kids know there was stuff goingright and I think a parent
that's living authentically andhappy, like that's number one,
right?
They have a happy mom.
You know I have a 14-month-olddaughter, so my daughter's a
little young for any kind ofconversations like that, but you
know I want her to see me ashappy and living true to myself.
Hopefully that will inspire hertoo.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
It gives them permission to have the life they
want and make decisions forthemselves.
So what is the wildest orweirdest reaction you've ever
heard someone get after comingout as Polly?
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Well, I think it was one of the ones I told you about
in the beginning of theinterview, which is where they
said oh, like, that means youlike the Mormons, like you have
multiple wives or you're like,you know, like like big love or
whatever, like that kind ofthing.
They think we're like living ona compound, you know like, okay
, like, and you have like amillion wives, that kind of
(32:29):
thing.
I think people likesensationalize it like that.
I think that's probably likeone of the weirdest reactions.
Another one that is kind oflike.
I think a reaction that peopleget that is weird but also kind
of funny in a weird way is likeoh, does that?
You must be like bagging amillion people.
Right, you must be having sexevery night of the week.
(32:51):
Oh, you don't also have a joband kids and the mortgage and
stuff like that.
It's like you just having sexall the time.
It's like, well, maybe someoneis, but also maybe not A lot of.
It's like we're still regularpeople.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
You know Right Like, yeah, this idea that there's
just sex parties going on everynight and Monday night.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
You know, it's like it's a Monday night.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
There's no sex party tonight.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Like well, maybe I'll put my kid to bed and make a
dinner and go to bed at nine,you know right.
Right.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
It's like this normal people.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
So is there?
You've named a couple, but isthere another prevalent myth
about polyamory that you hearall the time that you wish you
could just squash put an end toofficially?
Speaker 1 (33:38):
I think, yeah, I all the time that you wish you could
just squash, put an end toofficially.
I think, yeah, I think I namedthe biggest ones, or that it's
that it all is the same foreveryone.
One in terms of like poly meanslooks the same for everyone.
That's a big myth because itdoes it right.
What you want out ofpolyamorous relationships is the
same, right?
People can want many differentthings, right?
(33:59):
Some people are really looking alot for deep emotional
connection and want maybe onlyone or two partners.
Other people, maybe it's moreabout sex and more about the
(34:24):
physical.
For other people, they reallywant maybe have a primary
partner.
Other people, they'rerelationship anarchists and they
don't want any hierarchy andall of this can be polyamory.
So I an identity that theyalmost as if like you know
people you're like hey, Irealize I'm queer, right, and
that's a part of my identity.
This becomes part of people'sidentity and not something
(34:46):
necessarily that they knewreally early on that this
actually feels right to thembefore they can even be put into
words.
You know that actually.
I think this is who I am.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I think there are people who actually identify as
their relationship style becomesan identity, in that some
people feel like, look, I'm justwired for monogamy, I can't.
And I would say to those peoplewell, first you got to make sure
that you're wired for monogamyand you're not programmed for
(35:18):
monogamy, because of coursewe're programmed from day one in
this society.
But I do think there are peoplewho are just like this that one
person is enough for me.
Anything more sounds miserable.
And there are some people whoare like, no, like I can just
tell, like I'm someone who canlove multiple people and have
multiple relationships in mylife and I like that.
(35:39):
And then there's a new termthat has come out that I do want
to dive into in a podcastepisode itself called I believe
it's ambiamory, where someonefeels like they can be either,
like I can do monogamy and I cando polyamory, identify with
just one, but I think I can movebetween them both.
(36:00):
And it's more and more commonthat people are looking at their
relationship style preferenceas an actual identity, as you
would look at your sexuality.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Exactly, exactly, and I actually haven't heard of the
term, is it ambiamory?
It's cool, I mean.
I think it just also shows likethere's fluidity, right, like
we're not, we're evolving, we'realways evolving and depending
on our life, depending oncircumstances, like you know,
like you don't have to, there'sflexibility, you know, right,
like you might start out asmonogamous with somebody and
(36:32):
then the two of you realize, hey, we've created this really
secure connection.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Maybe we want to open up a little and see what that
looks like, especially if youthink about how long we live now
and how long relationships lastnow.
You know people were intomonogamy when you died at 35,
right, maybe 10 years ofmarriage maybe.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Well right, it's like all right, I'm living at 35, 10
years of monogamy, all right.
I guess I could do that.
You know 15, 20, 30, like, comeon.
But now we're living to what?
90s?
Speaker 2 (37:06):
hopefully, right we're trying to do and we're
banging all the way to death,like people are having sex well
into their 70s and 80s, right soyeah, doing they should.
Yeah, as they should.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Doing that with one person, the rest of your life
can feel for a lot of peoplemaybe not what they want you
know, or maybe that sounds likeI don't know about that.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Right.
So we've talked about the risks, but what I would like to look
at next is what's the biggestgift you've seen come out of
people living openly as poly.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
I've seen there's this term in the Mago couples
therapy that is called joyfulaliveness and the idea is that
we're all born fully, whole,like fully who.
We need to be joyfully aliveright.
And then, as we go through life, certain things dim that
aliveness, certain traumas orexperiences, and part of the
journey of life is to reclaimthat joyful aliveness.
(38:05):
And when I've seen people beable to come out, you know, and
be their authentic selves andlive fully in that way, I see
such joyful alveness, like it'samazing, you know, seeing people
become just lighter, happier,you know, and it's like, could
(38:25):
almost be like sometimes a wholenew person that you see emerge,
you know, when the weight ofthe shame or the secrecy has
been weighing someone down for along time and then they're out
and feeling like they're livingtheir truth.
That's a beautiful thing, youknow, and I think could be an
amazing transformation and bringa lot of joy to people.
(38:45):
And also seeing people acceptthem and love them.
Well, what an experience to belike.
This is who I am, you know, andhave people embrace that.
That's the ideal right To havepeople embrace it and be like
and have people embrace that.
That's the ideal right To havepeople embrace it and be like I
love you, and that's awesome.
I'm so happy for you.
That's amazing.
If you could have thatexperience.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
We've talked about the risks.
We've talked about the gifts.
Before we go, can you give mylisteners?
Let's say there's some outthere tonight.
They're ready to either comeout to their partner or their
family.
Where do they start?
What are some things they canstart doing tonight, tomorrow,
this week, to live moreauthentically?
(39:29):
What would your roadmap?
Speaker 1 (39:32):
be, I think, first, maybe sitting with yourself, you
know, and maybe writing down alittle bit about, you know,
reflecting on your own journey,you know, a romantic journey and
journey to like realizing yourpoly, you know, thinking about
what that's looked like for you,Thinking about, maybe, what
(39:55):
polyamory has given you or whatyou if it's not something that
maybe you've explored yet, butwant to explore like why you
want to do this right, why youwant to explore this and really
start to like just kind of likejournal or think about it, right
, and then think about who issomeone that I feel I could
start to share this with, reallysome of these thoughts I'm
having, and I would say picklike one person right that feels
(40:19):
safe to you, that maybe that isyour partner, right, or maybe
that's your therapist, or maybethat's the best friend, and
start to have the conversationwith them and see how that feels
.
I don't know about you, but I'mhonored if someone comes to me
like, hey, I want to sharesomething that I haven't told
anyone else.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
All right, guys, there you go.
You know where your startingpoint is.
So now, emily, can you telleverybody where they can find
you if you know they want toreach out to you for some
guidance or to find out moreabout what you do?
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Sure, you can find me at my website,
emilylambertrobbinscom.
The website is the best way toreach me.
You can reach out through there.
I have a newsletter.
I also run free monthlywebinars on Imago Couples
Therapy.
You can find out informationabout my couples retreats, more
about the work I do and, yeah,that's the best place to start.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
So, folks, coming out as Polly isn't just a
conversation.
It's a revolution inside yourlife, your relationships and the
way you claim your pleasure.
Huge thanks to Emily for givingus a roadmap and the real talk
we all need.
I want to remind you, if youguys are looking for an intimacy
coach or a cheerleader in yourown self-pleasure journey, my
(41:36):
books are open right now and youcan find out more about that at
TalkSexWithAnnettecom.
If you have questions aboutwhat you've heard in this
episode or viewed in thisepisode, if you're on my YouTube
channel, which is atTalkSexWithAnnette, you can just
drop your comment below thevideo.
You can also reach out to medirectly at Annette at
TalkSexWithAnnettecom.
(41:56):
You can scroll down to thenotes below and you will find my
speak pipe.
You can send me a voice messageand I will do my best to get
all of your questions answeredas soon as possible.
Emily, thank you again forjoining me for this conversation
.
Thank you so much for having me.
This was so much fun it was,and until next time, folks, I'll
(42:20):
see you in the locker room.
Cheers.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Cheers.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.