February 10, 2025 • 46 mins
🎙️
In this episode, Scott and Jenn interview author Mickey Nguyen, the son of South Vietnamese pilot Lieutenant Colonel Nguyen Van Ba. Mickey recounts his father's heroic actions during the fall of Saigon in April 1975.
His father executed a daring helicopter escape, saving his family and countless others from the advancing communist forces, a story featured in the Oscar-nominated film 'Last Days in Vietnam' and detailed in Mickey's memoir, 'The Last Flight Out.' The interview delves into the incredible details of their journey, the support from the U.S. Navy, and Captain Paul Jacobs' humanitarian efforts.
Mickey shares vivid memories and reflections on his family's survival and new life in America, leading up to the upcoming 50th anniversary of the fall of Saigon.
📖 Buy the book: Last Flight Out
🎥 Video version of this podcast episode
00:00 Intro
01:55 Mickey Nguyen
03:02 Mickey's Journey and the Memoir 'The Last Flight Out'
03:53 The Heroic Escape: April 1975
06:34 Reconnecting with the USS Kirk Crew
07:56 The Making of the Documentary
09:36 The Dramatic Helicopter Ditch
12:03 The Final Escape from Saigon
27:44 Hovering Challenges and Sea State Factors
28:45 Dangerous Rescue Operations
31:10 Reuniting and Transitioning to a Bigger Ship
33:34 Memories of the Journey
36:45 Compiling the Book and Honoring a Legacy
39:37 Reflecting on Heroism and Family
42:37 Conclusion and Book Promotion
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Miki (00:00):
the last thing I see my dad, as I turned around, was he, him, you
(00:04):
know, hovering away from from the ship.
started in this new world with absolutelynothing, a pair of shirt and boxer shorts.
Scott (00:09):
people were jumping and your mom had to like basically just drop, drop your
sister to a sailor that's catching people.
Miki (00:16):
one of the things I do remember is tasting military peanut butter in
the can that you, you know, rolled up.
Sure, yeah.
And chickletteschicklettes, military chit,
they were res the first thing he saidwhen he got on the ship, it wasn't
like, where's my wife and kids?
He's like, give me a cigarette.
Oh my gosh.
Jenn (00:34):
This is something people need to know.
It's real.
It happened.
It happened to your familyspecifically, really is great
for you to tell this story.
And like you said, it'sthe 50th anniversary
You know, it's one of those thattruth is braver than fiction,
Scott (00:47):
Thank you so much for joining us.
We are talking to author Mickey Nguyen.
He's actually the son of LieutenantColonel Nguyen Van Ba, his father
was a Vietnamese, a South Vietnamesepilot who escaped Vietnam with his
family when Saigon, when, when thecountry was falling to the communists
(01:07):
that were coming down from the north.
His father's heroic actions, including adaring helicopter escape in April of 1975,
was featured in the 2015 Oscar nominatedfilm, Last Days in Vietnam, and are
chronicled in the new memoir, which we'regoing to talk about, The Last Flight Out.
With the 50th anniversary of the fall ofSaigon approaching here in 2025, Mickey
(01:32):
aims to connect with audiences interestedin this we really enjoyed this interview
with Mickey he had some incredible storiesto tell and I really hope you guys stick
around for it this story and the storyof what mickey's father did in getting
his family out of the country Yeah.
Jenn (01:53):
So let's talk with history.
Scott (02:56):
We are here with Mickey Nguyen.
Am I pronouncing that correctly?
Yes.
That's right.
And you are here talking about a bookthat's really about your father and you've
been carrying on this, this message andjust as we were talking before we started
recording here, you, you've been doingthese interviews and I, you know, there's.
(03:16):
been Oscar nominated films with yourfather who was part of that storyline and
all this really, really interesting stuff.
So, so Mickey, for our listenersand for those watching, can you tell
us a little bit about your book?
Kind of your, yourjourney with your father.
There's a whole lot ofstuff for us to cover here.
(03:37):
So I'll let you jump into things thatyou think will resonate with folks who
might be interested in your, in your book.
Miki (03:44):
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Thank you, Scott and Jen for thethe opportunity to be on here
to share my my family story.
And again, I, I come at it.
This is my family's story.
Every family's got their own uniquestories and everyone's got their own
unique history but this one involved myfather who passed away about 10 years
ago but what he did 50 years ago, comingup here, April 29th, April 30th, 1975
(04:09):
was very heroic, so much so that heshared, you know, as with any military
folks post activity, post you know,we'd share his story of how he got to
America here with his other, you know,Vietnamese veteran buddies here in the U.
S. as well as around dinner tableswhen I was younger and hearing his
story and experienced it myself as asix and a half year old boy in 1975.
(04:33):
And so, gosh, long story short, the U.S. Navy in 2009 mind you the incident
that happened 50 years ago we nevergot the name of the, the ship, which
is the USS Kirk, nor the name ofthe, the captain Captain Paul Jacobs.
After we, you know, got onto the shipbecause they had to continue to stay
(04:58):
around the Gulf of Tonkin to, you know,continue their, their activity mission
and and then our family had to, youknow, get whisked off to another boat
and ship and start a new life in America.
And so, flash forward to2009, finally, the the U.
S. Navy Mr. Jan Herman did ahe is a U. S. Navy historian.
(05:21):
And did some research on the activitiesin 1975 and the you know, Operation
Frequent Wind, which was the evacuationof U. S. personnel and, and others within
supporting the U. S. military effortsin, in South Vietnam, Saigon area.
Yeah.
Had to quickly flee as the the communistscame down and, and took took over Saigon.
(05:42):
And and so, so when, when the,when Mr. Jan Herman did the did the
research, found out, you know, thispilot who ditched his helicopter
after his family jumped onto the ship.
Finally the story was shared youknow, with the community, the
Vietnamese community, and it endedup that my mom got an email saying,
(06:03):
Hey, we're looking for this pilot.
And my mom sent me the, the emailand she said, Hey, take a look at it.
And then it just I was at work and the,the full, the full life story of our
family circled around where, wow, thethe U S Navy, you know, reached out
and tried to find this, this pilot.
(06:23):
And I said, Hey, if you're looking forthe pilot that ditched the Chinook at,
you know, this approximate time afternoonThat's that's more than likely my dad.
Oh, wow.
So, back then 10 yearsago of 15 years ago.
He Dementia Alzheimer's so he wasn'table to you know, communicate and so
I spoke on on his behalf but myselfmy mom family just extremely happy to
(06:49):
reconnect back with the the captainand everyone and so I'll, I'll get
more into the, the, the dramaticstory, but so much so that the, the U.
S. Navy put together, Jan Herman,the team there put together
a documentary themselves.
Scott (07:07):
Oh, cool.
Miki (07:08):
And and then eventually a couple years later, we, in 2010,
a year later my family, dad, mom,sister flew out to Washington DC to
do a reunion with the the USS Kirk.
And the documentary, we got a chanceto see the US Navy documentary.
(07:28):
It was called the Lucky Few.
Hmm.
Okay.
And there first timeinterviewing with, NPR.
Oh, yeah.
And, was able to not only share the storythrough, through NPR, but also got the
chance to shake the hand of the captain,thanked him, thanked the crew members.
They took a big risk themselvesstanding underneath the Chinook
(07:52):
helicopter to catch us as we jumped.
And so, the story continued to snowball ayear later or two, got a phone call from
a production team, that was American, partof the NPR network, and said that a a film
company, L. A. Wants to do, want to workwith, produce a, you know, Their version
(08:15):
of it and it just so happened that thethe director the producer was Rory Kennedy
and her company Moxie film and so RoryKennedy youngest daughter of Robert F.
Kennedy.
Her brother is JFK Yeah,jr. If I got and so
(08:39):
Yeah, so in 2013 got the chance totalk about it and you know in the the
last days last days of Vietnam, yeah,and Out the, you know, we didn't know,
but it, it got shortlisted, got out of130, I was told about 130 documentaries
submitted for 2014, 2015 to Oscars.
(09:00):
Yeah, it got shortlisted down to five.
So, just amazing from that standpoint.
Yeah.
That, that's
Scott (09:06):
absolutely amazing.
And, and just to kind.
And I just wanted to step back for,you know, I looked a little bit at some
of the links that you had sent us andthere's been some new stories and, and,
and for, for our listeners and whatI'll do is I'll, I'll cut in some of the
some of the new stories and reels, youknow, in the, in the earlier part of the
interview, so they get that foundation,but really you said you were six and
(09:28):
a half when you guys were basicallyevacuating out of the Saigon area.
So
Miki (09:32):
should I should I get into the story?
Jenn (09:36):
Make you when you're like, that's probably my father how many
helicopters ditched Leaving Saigon.
Was there more than one?
Miki (09:45):
Well, like you you know It's you see in time left magazine in
video many of the smaller Huey.
Sure.
Yeah,
Jenn (09:52):
absolutely They landed
Miki (09:53):
on the deck is a small enough to land on this particular deck.
Yeah, he was this Kirk Yeah, and thenthey pushed it over there, you know,
okay side So then they would push him to
Jenn (10:01):
get more on because they're not going to like put them in a hanger.
They're just going to push them off.
And then the next one would land.
Yeah.
Okay.
But your father is the only onethat actually ditched his aircraft.
Like he was the pilot.
He flew it into the water.
And ditched it.
Like he, he didn't.
Simply because
Miki (10:14):
it was just too big to land.
There's
Scott (10:15):
no room.
Oh yeah, Chinooks are big.
I've flown in Chinooks before.
Those are large aircraft.
Jenn (10:20):
Way too big for a frigate.
But there was no otherpilot that did that.
So when you're like, it's probablymy dad, it's probably because he's
the only one who ditched an aircraft.
Well,
Miki (10:32):
as far as, as far as I know now, if there's others that have
done that out there, it wasn't,it wasn't at least shared in the
community or talked about very much.
So I, I don't, I don't know,but I do know about my dad.
Okay,
Jenn (10:43):
cool.
Okay.
Yeah.
I just wanted to make sure.
Cause you're like, that's probably my dad.
I'm like, wow.
I was wondering how many.
I know that they pushed the aircraft off.
I know they were just gettingthe aircraft out and and getting
people out as quickly as possible.
But when I read about your fatheractively ditching, something that we
practice now in the Navy, but probablysomething he never practiced, and he just
did it off of what he knew as a pilot.
(11:04):
It's so interesting because from whatthe Navy probably saw him do, they're
probably like, okay, now we're going totrain people to do that because it worked.
Miki (11:14):
Well, yeah, fortunately it did rise either, either
death or survival in this case.
But from, from what I've, I've heard andin talking with other, other Navy folks,
you know, I, I think they, they train.
them to just hover over andthen kill the prop and then let
it, you know, sink and roll.
Jenn (11:33):
But like, just like your father did, you get everybody out
of the aircraft but the pilot.
Just like your father did.
Same scenario, right?
You, you, that's the highest chancefor survival is to get everyone out.
And let the pilot do an active ditch.
And because then you can control it.
So I think that's really cool.
Your dad was like a, a trend center.
(11:53):
He was a groundbreaker there.
Miki (11:55):
Yeah, just survival.
Do what you had to do.
Think quick.
Quick, quick on your feet, you know?
Yeah.
So had to, yeah.
So let's tell
Jenn (12:03):
the story.
Let's tell the story of fromyou're six and a half, what's
happening in Vietnam at the time.
Your father is a South Vietnamese.
officer.
He's a pilot.
Vietnam is falling.
What's going on with SouthVietnamese people and tell us the
story of your family survival.
Miki (12:21):
So yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll try to condense it as much as possible, but
there, but there are fun parts in therethat it's like you know, yeah, there's
just some, some interesting parts inthere, but for, for those that, you know,
May not know the full history of Vietnam.
It was a country highly desired interms of where its location close to the
water, been occupied by China, Frenchoccupation for hundreds of years, you
(12:44):
know, through its history and mostrecent, you know, up leading up to 1975
was the the desire to be independent,you know, the way that independent
from the French and other things.
But in this particular case thecommunists wanted to, you know,
gain control of the country.
(13:06):
And my dad being from the South withsupport from the U S. was involved
trained with America, with Americansin the early 60s, he had a chance a
couple of times to come over to Alabamaand to Texas for flight training.
And so, , you know what, he decidedto focus more around helicopters
(13:28):
and get training around that.
And so, fast forward to The last fewmonths leading up to April 29, 1975,
the communists were coming down andencircling the the city of Saigon.
And at this moment in time, I was, again,you know, six, six and a half So I'm
sharing the story from my perspective, butas we talk about the, you know, the book
(13:51):
itself, he wrote many of these storieshimself and, but the, the way that I'll
narrate it is from my perspective, butknowing, knowing that the the communists
was about to come down, he knew thatit was, it was time to start making,
you know, option A or option B andPerhaps option C, if if things didn't,
(14:17):
didn't, you know, didn't turn out well.
But as we all know they did, thecommunists did come down and the last few
nights my family, my mom and I, youngerbrother, younger sister had to, you
know, go to our grandma's house, whichis basically in the middle of of Saigon.
Okay.
And he told us to go there and he toldus that, you know, in the event of,
(14:39):
of things just falling apart I'm goingto come and get you somehow, someway.
We'll figure out this out, we'll go,we'll figure out option B. Because
if, if he would have gotten caught orcaptured, it would have been many years
of re education camp, which is hell.
Sure.
You know, his buddies and, and familymembers who didn't get the chance to
leave had to, you know, deal with thatconcentration, that, that camp activity.
(15:01):
But, in this, in this particularcase, knowing what he knew hearing
intelligence in the radio and in hissuperiors and his commanding officers
and everybody else simply knowing thatit's, you know, there is no other option.
They took off, they tookoff with their family.
He waited for orders until the very lastmoment where at this time, there was
no further orders for him to, you know,to execute this or execute that because
(15:25):
again, his superiors took off themselves.
Jenn (15:28):
Yeah, everybody was.
Trying to save their families.
Exactly.
Miki (15:31):
Exactly.
And so, at this point he you know, hehad what he called his, his horse, right?
His Chinook.
It's the only thing thathe can ride in and out of.
They bombed the the mainairport, Tangshanyuek airport.
Okay.
And so you couldn't take abig, you know, plane in or out.
(15:52):
So he flew the Chinook helicopterinto the the city towards my grandma's
house and mind you this was like,you know any metropolitan major
city and Just let you know Jen,you know Chinooks right the c 47.
It's loud thunderous.
You can hear that from miles away Oh,yeah, and it causes a commotion But
(16:12):
it then that net here is he landedthat thing in front of a my grandma's
playfield little school yard or aplayfield in the front and obviously,
you know, caused a lot of commotionin the neighborhood and many of the
homes back then had tin roofs and blewmany of those things up in a way, but
(16:33):
told his co pilot his lower the theback hatch and we all ran in and
to the back of the Chinook and Youknow, took that thing up quickly.
There are folks that aremilitary police around there.
You know, rushing towards him And sowe had to get the heck out of there.
Jenn (16:49):
Sure So let me ask you this So did your you went to your grandma's house?
I would assume because of the protectionas it's more central to the city.
It's going to It's going to takelonger for the North Vietnamese to
get into the center of the city.
So he's like, get there for protection.
Plus he has the LZ there, sohe has a landing zone picked
out because of the playground.
Now, were you the onlyfamily to get on board?
(17:11):
I mean, did other families see thisand want to try to save themselves too?
Miki (17:15):
Yeah, my dad's side has a lot of oldest, you know, son in the family.
He had a lot of brothers,my aunts and uncles.
But they, you know, as we wererunning into the Chinook, my mom
would look back, Hey, come on with us.
But they they said, yeah, gowith, go with your husband.
Okay.
From that same point.
And the reason why we were at mygrandma's house was because we were
(17:36):
living in Binwa, which was abouthalf hour away, a military base.
And obviously the military base wasprobably too hot of a zone to be there.
So that's why he movedmoved our family to grandma.
Jenn (17:48):
So it's just immediate family.
No uncles or aunts came.
Your grandmother didn't come.
No cousins.
It was just you guys.
Okay.
Yeah.
Miki (17:55):
No, many, many of them back then, you know, who was to say where, where
my dad would go and how we would end up.
And so nobody knew what was happening.
So perhaps some regret hearing therefrom the family members, not, not
going, but eventually some of them, youknow, had the chance to, to, to leave.
Jenn (18:13):
Yeah.
Miki (18:13):
So basically got out of, got out of Saigon, got out of that, that area
and headed further south just to getaway from the the city and to consolidate
with his other you know, other pilotstrying to figure out the next and the
thought was to get ration, get food,gas just gear up and try to find a a
(18:36):
remote island further south, just laylow and then figure out from there.
And that's what that's what we did.
That's what that's what my dad did wasjust met up with, you know, radioed the
other, the other folks, other folks,other pilots and met at a location and
if figure out what, what the next thingto do was, but he heard on the radio,
a lot of us communication chatter.
(18:56):
He also knew many of the usships that were still out.
In the Pacific there and the thoughtwas maybe go out there and check it
out and if there's a ship that wasbig enough, maybe they land on it and,
and get, get, get out of town, right?
So that's what, that's what he did.
He flew out towards the, the ocean.
There was no, therewas not an exact point.
(19:18):
He just flew out there tosee what, check it out.
And mind you, Jen, you probably know theydon't, you know, they don't have flotation
devices or any life jackets, you know, atleast with this Chinook that my dad had.
And so it was it was a risky effort togo out there not knowing exactly, you
know, what's going to be out there andif, if maybe he had enough gas to make
(19:40):
it out or to, to figure all that out.
But, eventually Flew outthere and on the distant.
He saw, you know a ship andHeaded in that direction.
Oh and as he got close to it eventually,you know throttled back a little bit
He didn't want to look too aggressive.
Sure, obviously kids, you know, thethe American Navy men below they were
(20:05):
everybody's heightened heightenedtension right not knowing that
this was a communist plane comingout and doing wrong to the ship.
So, as he approached it, you know, mymom, him and others, there's like about.
15, 16 people somewhere on thein the Chinook, our family.
And he had a co pilot and his gunnerand maintenance guy and their, their
(20:30):
girlfriends and things like that.
So, hovered up there and we cansee the, the ship below continuing
to, you know, maintain its course.
All right, just three or five knots, andhe kept hovering it and circling around
it, while at the same time that you cansee the folks below holding, you know,
holding big guns up at him, just did like,hey, you know, we got our eye on you.
(20:53):
And so, like a warning.
Yeah, just exactly.
And so, my dad with his broken English,you know, that he can speak was able to
communicate with the captain in the ship.
And finally the Captain Paul Jacobsyou know, talked with his crew and
started to figure out, you know, how,how to, how are we going to do this?
Is it how are we gonna, youknow, help Help this guy in, in
(21:17):
the, the folks in the Chinook.
And so in the video, there's a videoin the in the film where you can see
my mom holding up Mina, my, my yeah.
Baby sister, six month old, up to thewindow and say, Hey, there's, there's
women and, you know, kids on board here.
Yeah.
We need help.
And so with the the compassion and the the
(21:40):
the, the heart of the, the, youknow, Mr. Paul Jacobs, quickly just
scrambling to figure things out.
And so, finally, you know, okay, guys,we got we got to help this the pilot
up there in the Chinook up there.
And so basically the what my daddid was, and again, the the ship had
(22:00):
to maintain a steady course, right?
Instead of maintain a steady course.
And so he He hovered the the Chinooktowards the the stern, the, the rear side.
And obviously this particularUSS Kirk found out.
Later on was a a submarine, a destroyertype where it was looking for sonar
and just a lot of expensive equipment,very high tech back then, antennas,
(22:25):
radars, all of the surveillance.
And so he didn't want to.
My dad didn't want to get too closeto the all the, the mass and the
equipment because he can put thatship out of commission quickly.
Anything could have happened, you know,wind or a swell could have knocked you
know, the Chinook into the to the boat.
(22:46):
And so he hovered, he hovered behind,falling behind, he hovered the Chinook
behind the ship and, on the starboard.
Door open the door and hovered it loweredit down and we can we can see Hovered it
about 10 13 feet above the the deck and wecan see the American Navy men below hands
(23:08):
up and Jump right one by one we jump.
Scott (23:13):
Holy cow.
Miki (23:14):
Yeah and the last few that left the the Chinook, my mom had
to drop a seven month old baby,you know, onto the hand below.
That gentleman who caught my sister,his name is Mr. Mr. Chipman, met
him in Washington, D. C. Oh, wow.
Yeah, Texan.
That's amazing.
And just amazing reunion.
(23:36):
But Mr. Chipman and, and others downthere, you know, brave, brave Navy men
risked their life as well just to, tohelp us out and so we all got down,
we, I jumped down and the only injurywas one of the, one of the girlfriends
of one of the crew member sprained herankle, but fortunately everyone was okay.
(23:57):
They quickly ushered us, pushed usin inside, didn't want any kids or
anybody running out on the deck, right?
Jenn (24:03):
Sure.
Miki (24:04):
And so the last thing I see my dad, as I turned around, was he, him, you
know, hovering away from from the ship.
And so, went inside andthat was it for my own eyes.
That was the last time I saw my dad.
Everything else was just hearing storiesof him telling it and eventually seeing
all of the photos and everything elsefrom the U S Navy many years later.
(24:28):
But as I share this with youthrough, through what my dad shared
with me through dinner tables,you know, as we grew up, he.
Hovered away from the ship, 100 yards orso, and hovered the you know, hovered the
Chinook on the water so he can take offall of his gear and his gun, his sidearm
and, you know, the flat jacket, right?
(24:50):
I mean, it's hard to put that on, letalone take that off while he's hovering.
Get all the
Jenn (24:53):
weight off, yeah.
Miki (24:55):
Shoes, boots, you know, unstrapping all that.
He's only a regret.
But his only regret in this wholeexperience was and, and the only reason
why I found out was because of the book,you know, the, the section that he wrote.
But the regret was that he shouldhave asked his co pilot to at least
hold the rudder so he can take allof his stuff out once he's down, then
(25:15):
tell the co pilot to jump, right?
So he, yeah, he laughingly said, youknow, next time if I have to do this
again, I'm going to tell the co pilotto just give me like five minutes.
And also the other regret wasnot keeping his military ID.
Yeah.
All of the ID stuff.
Everything was gone.
I'm telling you.
Sure.
Started, started in this newworld with absolutely nothing, a
pair of shirt and boxer shorts.
Jenn (25:35):
That's amazing.
Miki (25:37):
So down to his, down to his undergarment and hovered there kicked
the the port door and the left side out.
Yep.
And basically with his With his right leg,pushed the rudder so that it would, you
know, lean towards the the right as hejumped over to his left into the water.
(26:02):
And he said, you know, the stories aroundthe dinner table tried to dive into the
ocean, but Tried it two or three times,but the saltwater is very buoyant.
You kept pushing them back up.
That was his biggest fear was ashrapnel or a blade or something.
Just, you know, in the water, right?
Or the dynamics of the Chinook could havebeen a, it could have flipped back on him.
(26:23):
Sure.
Because you can't really jump too far, youknow, just from this huge, huge aircraft.
But fortunately, you know,it leaned over to the right.
He was on the left.
And quickly on the third, thirdattempt diving, he dove down.
And finally.
(26:43):
You know, as I said in the film,he pops back up and he's alive
and it's like just huge relief.
They came there, they sent the littleskiff to come out and grab him.
And we can see the video of him sittingin the boat, just like probably thinking,
God, thank God almighty, I made it.
You know, and the first thing, the firstthing he said when he got on the ship,
(27:05):
it wasn't like, where's my wife and kids?
He's like, give me a cigarette.
Oh my gosh.
It's called that nerve down.
Absolutely.
So funny.
That's
Jenn (27:14):
so 70.
I can't imagine.
Yeah.
Miki (27:18):
Exactly.
Jenn (27:20):
It's such a pilot thing.
It's awesome.
Oh my gosh.
So a couple things, like I want toremind people, this is a frigate.
It's 15 feet off the water.
If he's hovering about 10 feet off thefrigate, he's 25 feet off the ground.
The frigate has to maintain a course,even a low course, just to keep it steady.
Yep.
Because those South China Seas are so big.
(27:41):
that if you were to stop, like,you're like, why doesn't he
just stop and they can hover?
It's going to rock so much that it'sgoing to be, he's going to be unable
to hover, especially at the side.
He has to hover to the side.
He's not hovering straight on.
He's hovering to the side to openthe door, to let people jump out.
And because he's doing that,he's probably looking over his
shoulder to maintain the hover.
(28:01):
And you have to maintain somekind of speed on the ship to
keep it as steady as possible.
So.
And he's doing 15 people.
So this is taking some time.
This is not just like two seconds.
This is taking some time to do.
And
Scott (28:16):
what people don't realize too, right?
You know, if, if you've ever spenttime on a ship, and right, have both
of us haven't been in the Navy youknow, those, those, the sea state
has, has a lot to do with that.
You know, there's multiple thingsthat, a factor here, right?
Chinook, if you're, if our listenersdon't quite know what a Chinook
is, or can't picture it in theirhead, picture that classic M.
(28:37):
A. S. H. helicopter, right?
Dual, dual rotors, a little bit longer.
And so that, that's, that'swhat he's flying, that CH 46.
And then on the ocean, you'll have swellssometimes, depending on the, like I said,
depending on the sea state, that are,that are changing how high the ship is,
by like 5 to 6 feet, and sometimes it'seven 10 to 15 feet, just on the swell.
(29:00):
So the ship, so you canfly the helicopter steady.
But you also have to keep aneye on the ship because the
ship is the thing that's moving.
It's actually the, thehelicopter is actually a little
bit easier to keep steady.
Whereas the ship, again,depending on the sea state.
So that's an incrediblydangerous thing to do.
And it's, it's, it's a miracle, you know,praise God that, that everybody came out.
(29:20):
Okay.
And then.
You know, people were jumping and your momhad to like basically just drop, drop your
sister to a sailor that's catching people.
Like if our listeners can picture thatin their head and then your father
flying off to the side, rolling itone way and jumping off the other, all
of this stuff is happening, I'm surein a relatively short period of time.
(29:41):
Your dad is a excellent
Jenn (29:42):
pilot.
And then, I want people to rememberthat the deck of a ship is steel.
So people are jumpingdown onto a steel deck.
And you guys are probably rushedinto the hangar, right behind there,
because to get people off the deck,clear the deck as quick as possible to
get more people on, as there's peopleon the deck catching these people.
And I love that your mom held upyour sister, because it's like an
(30:04):
international symbol of peace, a child.
Yeah,
Miki (30:08):
help.
Yeah.
Jenn (30:10):
So I think, I love, I love all that.
So, so we're leading into that.
Your father has Ditch theaircraft, which I think is amazing.
Like you said, you're not gonnajump away from the aircraft.
You're basically jumpingbeside the aircraft.
You don't have, like, thislong lateral distance.
Like, and you have to get over the cyclic.
Like, he has to get his leg overthe cyclic, and then jump over
the collective into the water.
(30:31):
So he's taking off all his weight,so he can dive, like you said.
And and hopefully the aircraft will row.
All the weight of ahelicopter's in the top.
So hopefully the helicopter willroll because the weight will pull it
over and like you said, he'll diveto hit all of the, everything flying
off of it because it's an activerotor at the time as it's going in.
And I just think it's great that he, hegets rescued with nothing but his, like,
(30:55):
skivvies on and then asks for a cigarette.
He's like, I did it.
It's such a pilot thing.
Like, look, I did the most badass thing.
You know what?
None of you pilots didthis and I got a cigarette.
Scott (31:07):
Oh my war.
So are
Jenn (31:08):
you gonna see him again on the ship?
Like are you guys reunited asa family on the ship and then
Miki (31:13):
Yes.
Jenn (31:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then transported toa bigger, a bigger ship.
'cause I'm, I'm sure therefugees coming in Yeah.
Are so high that they need to get you ona bigger ship that can handle more people.
That's right.
Because if frigate is not.
It's like a hundred andfifty people on board.
Miki (31:29):
Yeah.
Yeah.
We were only on there for less than24 hours before we were, another
ship came by to offload, right?
And that, and the USS Kurt stayedstayed in the, in the area.
Jenn (31:38):
Yeah, and a frigate too.
I mean, I was on a frigatefor my first deployment.
They can get closer to shore.
The draft is smaller.
So the draft of a ship is how muchit sticks underneath the water.
A frigate, because it's smaller,because it's the lower crew,
you can get closer to the water.
So they like to get the frigates Youknow, close and to offer some support.
(31:59):
So I think that's another reasonwhy the curt was probably closer
for your dad when he was coming out.
But I think that's great.
And I, if I remember correctly,the commanding officer was
like a six for three big guy.
Miki (32:10):
Oh, just a big, big heart, big guy.
I just I got goose pimplesthinking about him.
He passed away a few years ago in his 90s.
Wow.
But what a wonderful gentleman,wonderful crew, big, big heart,
towards the last few years in 2016.
(32:31):
2015, 16, 17 we were trying, youknow, with his help and others
that we were trying to get the U.
S. Navy to formally recognize hishumanitarian and compassionate, you
know, effort towards not only our family,but hundreds and hundreds of of other
families that basically did the samething was, you know, fly various planes
(32:56):
and helicopters out to to help and,Mr. Paul Jacobs, Captain Paul Jacobs,
I'll, I'll keep repeating that until theday I die, was one of those gentlemen
that just, you know, put aside anysort of protocols or any of this and
that, and just from one human to thenext human, I'm going to help you out.
Jenn (33:13):
Yeah.
Miki (33:14):
And for that, myself, my, my family, and my dad fully appreciate that.
100%.
Jenn (33:21):
Yeah.
That's what we love about the U. S.Navy, too, you know, so that's great.
And where, where was Jacobs from?
Do you know?
Miki (33:27):
Virginia.
Jenn (33:27):
Virginia.
Okay.
Miki (33:28):
I think so.
Yeah.
Around the D. C. area.
Jenn (33:31):
Yeah.
Very cool.
Miki (33:32):
Yeah.
Jenn (33:32):
Okay.
Okay.
So.
You're on the ship and how longuntil you get to America and I think
you go to Washington State, right?
Miki (33:40):
Yeah.
So, there's so many, so many partsof the story that I, I have to
filter myself because we can sit hereand talk for hours and hours, but
yeah, again, on there for 24 hours.
And then, and then another anothership came by to, to offload
us with hundreds of others.
And from one ship to, fromthere, we went to Wake, Guam.
Scott (34:02):
Mm
Miki (34:02):
hmm.
Yeah, and then eventually Hawaii.
Yep, and then went into a Camp Pendleton,Marine Yeah, Camp Pendleton in San Diego.
Yeah, and was there for a month or so andthen a Cross of Christ Lutheran Church
again, so many amazing people along thejourney to help, you know to help us
(34:25):
Cross of Christ Lutheran Church here inBellevue, which is about 45 30 minutes
away from Seattle Sponsored our familyAnd it helped us resettle from there.
Yeah.
Scott (34:37):
Yeah, that's amazing.
Now, for, for you, I mean, being sixand a half, you know, all this stuff
going on, do you have a lot of kindof, like, specific memories yourself?
Like, I know for me, if I try tothink back to, to my youth, usually
it's like I'll remember one specificthing about something that happened.
Like, oh my gosh, look at this ship.
Someone gave me, you know, icecream or something like that.
(34:59):
Like, I mean, do you have any memorieslike that of like being on the ship
yourself and interacting with the sailorsas you're leaving and can come into
Guam and then Hawaii and everything?
Miki (35:09):
Yeah, that's a, that's a great question because, you know, we all, we
all reflect back on our childhood andtheir moments and memories where it's
like, it stands out for me, six and a halfgrowing up on a military base and playing
with, you know, guns and I mean, they'reguns and all bullets and heavy military
(35:29):
just laying around the, the barrack andthe, you know, playing around all that.
But to answer your question on the shipitself, one of the things I do remember
is tasting military peanut butter inthe can that you, you know, rolled up.
Sure, yeah.
And chicklettes chicklettes militarychit, they were res Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That, I mean, specific toyour, to your question.
(35:49):
Yeah.
Those were the things that Iremember because, you know.
Exactly, exactly on the ship.
And we see, we see photos.
My dad's sitting there on theship just kinda like chilling,
talking with, you know, his buddiesand I'm, I'm, you know, brother
running around the, the ship there.
So, but yeah, I can I, that taste of thatpeanut butter, I can taste it right now.
(36:11):
That's the military peanut butter ration.
Scott (36:13):
Yeah, I, I love stories like that because for me, you know, that's
always what I. There's there's veryspecific things and it's not something
you would ever think of, right?
It's a smell that triggers an old memoryor something as something you taste
that's like that just takes you rightback You know to 30 40 50 years prior.
Yeah, and so I was thinking aboutthat as you were telling this
(36:33):
story I was like, I'm sure there'slike one thing that he just really
remembers, you know And if and it makessense to me that for a kid, right?
It's something that you're gonnataste, you know for the first
time so So I absolutely love that.
Now for the book, did your father writethe better portions of this book and
then it was finished up by, by youlike towards the end or how, how did,
(36:56):
how did that book get put together?
Miki (36:58):
Yeah.
So, as we settled it, you know, inthe saddle area here, eventually,
you know, came back and workedstudied electronics and eventually
the mom and dad the irony landed.
After a few, a few jobs here and there, helanded with Boeing, retired with Boeing,
the makers of, the makers of the Chinook.
(37:18):
My, my dad worked on the withthe space program back then,
Cold War, ICBMs, all of that.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Program.
So he had military, fortunatelymilitary, you know, support military.
to, to get involvedwith projects like that.
Sure.
And in his spare time, he loved writingand he wrote in obviously Vietnamese.
Still broken, broken, broken English.
(37:41):
Had to relearn, you know, my mom hadto learn English from, from scratch.
Settle and, and just workedhard, sacrifice, all of that.
All of that, all of those themes of havingto start over again but in, in this case,
he had free time and when he did have freetime wrote a lot in short stories that
were published in Vietnamese newspapers,not only in Seattle, but in other
(38:03):
Vietnamese communities all over the U.
S. And so, he wrote several, severalstories and in the past few years,
I was able to finally find manyof these files were documents cool
laying around and got it translated.
My, you know, leaving Vietnam.
I left one year old.
(38:24):
I mean, first grade.
Yeah.
And so, didn't get to to go further intomy own Vietnamese language and assimilated
quickly into America, into into, youknow, living in a, in a new country.
And so, yeah, in the past year herewas able to compile all of this.
And one of the things my mom told me.
(38:45):
was that his dream was to actuallyput his own book together, right?
Of all the short stories that he had.
Unfortunately with all, you know,Alzheimer's took, took him early and
and, and didn't get a chance to do that.
And so I wanted to, honor him.
And that timing was right in termsof 50 years since in 2025 here.
(39:06):
That we reflect back 50 yearsof the fall of of Saigon.
And so the timing was right and hence youknow, putting all this together, the book.
Scott (39:14):
That's great.
Oh, that's amazing.
I love that you were able to do thatbecause that's you get to re experience
some of that, you know, I'm sure asyou're, as you're collecting those stories
together and then reading back throughthem, putting them together that anything
you do like any project like that, allright, and I'm preaching to the choir,
you're really going to get into thatand really know how he felt and what
(39:35):
an what an amazing opportunity for you
Jenn (39:38):
Yeah, and it's a, I mean, this is a historically significant story, right?
This is something people need to know.
It's real.
It happened.
It happened to your family specifically,which means you can weigh in more on
the actual facts and what happened.
I mean, you're a primary source.
So it really is great foryou to tell this story.
And like you said, it's the50th anniversary and people.
(40:01):
You know, people are sometimesso confused about Vietnam.
They're so confused about what happenedthere and, and what was it about.
And I think this is, these kind ofstories need to be told by people.
Like, we need to understand whatwas happening there and what
happened to the people there.
And that, you know, whatAmerica tried to do to help.
And like, even your family coming toAmerica and, you know, assimilating
(40:24):
and being welcomed with open armsand being so You know a country
that was able to help in and giveyou guys a new life from nothing.
Yes.
From underwear, right?
Yes.
But the heroic thing your fatherdid to do that is just amazing.
And I think, I think more storieslike this need to be told.
(40:44):
Yeah.
And I think this is afantastic, real, historic story.
Scott (40:49):
They could make this into a Hollywood movie, in my opinion, right?
I mean That's, it's a culminating event,but a lot of uncertainty at the end
and, and all, all the stuff at play.
So, I love that you gotto put this book together.
Miki (41:01):
The you know, themes of leadership, survival.
Overcoming obstacles, all ofthose things, we all go through
it in our own personal way.
Absolutely.
This is just my dad's, you know, lookat it, approach it, life with it.
And so the book is filled with storiesof, you know, drama, excitement,
(41:25):
betrayal, survival, leadership.
All of those things it'sembodied within this book.
The and as I, you know, I shared withyou earlier in this conversation,
this was a story that I grew upas a kid, throughout my life.
Hearing my dad talk with hisbuddies, smoking a cigarette,
drinking a beer you know.
And listening in as I, you know, listeninginto these stories, and, and again, these
(41:49):
were stories for many, many years, andit wasn't, it wasn't again until the U.
S. Navy, all of this, you know,reconnection in, again, 2010, 2009
timeframe that finally saw pictures,finally saw some of these, And I'm
thinking I'm like, man, my dad was tellingthe truth, you know, we got pictures.
(42:12):
It's like that.
It's like that fishing story, right?
Your buddy.
Yeah.
I caught that, you know,that 25 pound salmon.
Oh yeah.
Where's the picture?
No picture.
Not, you know what I'm saying?
You know?
Yeah.
So we got, we got all of those.
So thank you for again,Captain Kirk, Jan Herman.
U. S. Navy, U. S. S. Kirk, allthe crewmen, and just, and the,
the, the church folks that havehelped us along this whole journey.
(42:36):
That's amazing.
That's
Jenn (42:36):
amazing.
So, where can people get your book at?
Miki (42:39):
Oh Barnes Noble.
Okay.
Amazon.
Just, it's, it's all online.
Jenn (42:43):
And then there's also the PBS special.
Miki (42:46):
Yeah, yeah, so the, the, the, the film Last Days in Vietnam, again, written
and produced by Rory Kennedy and team it'son Netflix and they're, you know, yeah.
Scott (42:55):
We'll include links to all of that stuff in the show notes and for the video
version of this podcast for you guys whoare watching we'll include links to, to
everything here in the video description.
And Mickey, you so much, thank youso much for, you know, reaching
out to us and joining us today.
We love hearing stories like this,especially as, you know, a veteran
and someone who's currently serving,you know, veteran one day myself and
(43:17):
just everything that your family didin the stories that you're getting
to tell of your father's heroism.
We, we really do appreciate you,you coming on and joining us and,
and telling your part of the story.
And I love the little anecdotes there.
You know, about the peanutbutter and the chiclets.
It just, it just makes me smile,
Miki (43:34):
I wanted to fulfill my dad's dream, number one, with
the book and to honor him.
It's the least I can do for him, givingso back, so much to myself and my family.
And to continue to share his his story.
This is, you know, the history, right?
His story.
Yeah, that's right.
This is my dad's story.
Yeah.
And so, Yeah, thank you both Scott andJen for the opportunity for me to be on
(43:59):
your platform and share my family's story.
Scott (44:02):
Yeah, well we're excited to get this out there and to share
this with our audience and hopefullypeople go check out the book.
Remind me of the officialname of the book.
Miki (44:10):
Oh, The Last Flight Out?
Scott (44:13):
The Last Flight Out.
And
Miki (44:14):
is that the
Jenn (44:16):
helicopter?
Miki (44:17):
That's that's him.
That's wow.
Jenn (44:19):
Yeah.
Scott (44:20):
All right.
So so folks check out the go goto their show notes and check out
the last flight out and Mickey.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Jenn (44:27):
Yeah.
Miki (44:27):
Thank you.
God bless you.
Thank you.
Scott (44:33):
Jen, I enjoyed his story so much.
It was, I, it was hard to fathomand then hearing him tell it from,
his perspective as a six and ahalf year old was just riveting.
Jenn (44:45):
You know, it's one of those that truth is braver than fiction,
you know, like what his father did is,is stuff that movies are made out of.
It's stuff you see in movies that you'relike, there's no way that could happen.
There's no way that would work.
And it did in his case and whathis dad did without any training.
He just did it.
I mean, a father's heart to get hisfamily safe and out of a country that's
(45:08):
about to fall like it was just amazing.
And to celebrate this on the 50thanniversary of the fall of Saigon.
More people need to understandwhat's happening in Vietnam and the
repercussions of that and what arefugee crisis looks like in this case.
It was just, it wasamazing to tell the story.
It
Scott (45:24):
was amazing.
I loved some of the anecdotesthat he told us about the
peanut butter and the chiclets.
If you guys are interested in this book,please look in the video description
or the podcast show notes descriptionfor a link to The Last Flight Out.
This has been a WalkWith History production.
Talk With History is createdand hosted by me, Scott Bennie.
Episode researched by Jennifer Bennie.
Check out the show notes for links andreferences mentioned in this episode.
(45:48):
Talk With History is supported byour fans at thehistoryroadtrip.
com.
Our eternal thanks to those providingfunding to help keep us going.
to Doug McLiverty, LarryMyers, and Patrick Bennie.
Make sure you hit that followbutton in your podcast player,
and we'll talk to you next time.
the last thing I see my dad, as I turned around, was he, him, you
(00:04):
know, hovering away from from the ship.
started in this new world with absolutelynothing, a pair of shirt and boxer shorts.
Scott (00:09):
people were jumping and your mom had to like basically just drop, drop your
sister to a sailor that's catching people.
Miki (00:16):
one of the things I do remember is tasting military peanut butter in
the can that you, you know, rolled up.
Sure, yeah.
And chickletteschicklettes, military chit,
they were res the first thing he saidwhen he got on the ship, it wasn't
like, where's my wife and kids?
He's like, give me a cigarette.
Oh my gosh.
Jenn (00:34):
This is something people need to know.
It's real.
It happened.
It happened to your familyspecifically, really is great
for you to tell this story.
And like you said, it'sthe 50th anniversary
You know, it's one of those thattruth is braver than fiction,
Scott (00:47):
Thank you so much for joining us.
We are talking to author Mickey Nguyen.
He's actually the son of LieutenantColonel Nguyen Van Ba, his father
was a Vietnamese, a South Vietnamesepilot who escaped Vietnam with his
family when Saigon, when, when thecountry was falling to the communists
(01:07):
that were coming down from the north.
His father's heroic actions, including adaring helicopter escape in April of 1975,
was featured in the 2015 Oscar nominatedfilm, Last Days in Vietnam, and are
chronicled in the new memoir, which we'regoing to talk about, The Last Flight Out.
With the 50th anniversary of the fall ofSaigon approaching here in 2025, Mickey
(01:32):
aims to connect with audiences interestedin this we really enjoyed this interview
with Mickey he had some incredible storiesto tell and I really hope you guys stick
around for it this story and the storyof what mickey's father did in getting
his family out of the country Yeah.
Jenn (01:53):
So let's talk with history.
Scott (02:56):
We are here with Mickey Nguyen.
Am I pronouncing that correctly?
Yes.
That's right.
And you are here talking about a bookthat's really about your father and you've
been carrying on this, this message andjust as we were talking before we started
recording here, you, you've been doingthese interviews and I, you know, there's.
(03:16):
been Oscar nominated films with yourfather who was part of that storyline and
all this really, really interesting stuff.
So, so Mickey, for our listenersand for those watching, can you tell
us a little bit about your book?
Kind of your, yourjourney with your father.
There's a whole lot ofstuff for us to cover here.
(03:37):
So I'll let you jump into things thatyou think will resonate with folks who
might be interested in your, in your book.
Miki (03:44):
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Thank you, Scott and Jen for thethe opportunity to be on here
to share my my family story.
And again, I, I come at it.
This is my family's story.
Every family's got their own uniquestories and everyone's got their own
unique history but this one involved myfather who passed away about 10 years
ago but what he did 50 years ago, comingup here, April 29th, April 30th, 1975
(04:09):
was very heroic, so much so that heshared, you know, as with any military
folks post activity, post you know,we'd share his story of how he got to
America here with his other, you know,Vietnamese veteran buddies here in the U.
S. as well as around dinner tableswhen I was younger and hearing his
story and experienced it myself as asix and a half year old boy in 1975.
(04:33):
And so, gosh, long story short, the U.S. Navy in 2009 mind you the incident
that happened 50 years ago we nevergot the name of the, the ship, which
is the USS Kirk, nor the name ofthe, the captain Captain Paul Jacobs.
After we, you know, got onto the shipbecause they had to continue to stay
(04:58):
around the Gulf of Tonkin to, you know,continue their, their activity mission
and and then our family had to, youknow, get whisked off to another boat
and ship and start a new life in America.
And so, flash forward to2009, finally, the the U.
S. Navy Mr. Jan Herman did ahe is a U. S. Navy historian.
(05:21):
And did some research on the activitiesin 1975 and the you know, Operation
Frequent Wind, which was the evacuationof U. S. personnel and, and others within
supporting the U. S. military effortsin, in South Vietnam, Saigon area.
Yeah.
Had to quickly flee as the the communistscame down and, and took took over Saigon.
(05:42):
And and so, so when, when the,when Mr. Jan Herman did the did the
research, found out, you know, thispilot who ditched his helicopter
after his family jumped onto the ship.
Finally the story was shared youknow, with the community, the
Vietnamese community, and it endedup that my mom got an email saying,
(06:03):
Hey, we're looking for this pilot.
And my mom sent me the, the emailand she said, Hey, take a look at it.
And then it just I was at work and the,the full, the full life story of our
family circled around where, wow, thethe U S Navy, you know, reached out
and tried to find this, this pilot.
(06:23):
And I said, Hey, if you're looking forthe pilot that ditched the Chinook at,
you know, this approximate time afternoonThat's that's more than likely my dad.
Oh, wow.
So, back then 10 yearsago of 15 years ago.
He Dementia Alzheimer's so he wasn'table to you know, communicate and so
I spoke on on his behalf but myselfmy mom family just extremely happy to
(06:49):
reconnect back with the the captainand everyone and so I'll, I'll get
more into the, the, the dramaticstory, but so much so that the, the U.
S. Navy put together, Jan Herman,the team there put together
a documentary themselves.
Scott (07:07):
Oh, cool.
Miki (07:08):
And and then eventually a couple years later, we, in 2010,
a year later my family, dad, mom,sister flew out to Washington DC to
do a reunion with the the USS Kirk.
And the documentary, we got a chanceto see the US Navy documentary.
(07:28):
It was called the Lucky Few.
Hmm.
Okay.
And there first timeinterviewing with, NPR.
Oh, yeah.
And, was able to not only share the storythrough, through NPR, but also got the
chance to shake the hand of the captain,thanked him, thanked the crew members.
They took a big risk themselvesstanding underneath the Chinook
(07:52):
helicopter to catch us as we jumped.
And so, the story continued to snowball ayear later or two, got a phone call from
a production team, that was American, partof the NPR network, and said that a a film
company, L. A. Wants to do, want to workwith, produce a, you know, Their version
(08:15):
of it and it just so happened that thethe director the producer was Rory Kennedy
and her company Moxie film and so RoryKennedy youngest daughter of Robert F.
Kennedy.
Her brother is JFK Yeah,jr. If I got and so
(08:39):
Yeah, so in 2013 got the chance totalk about it and you know in the the
last days last days of Vietnam, yeah,and Out the, you know, we didn't know,
but it, it got shortlisted, got out of130, I was told about 130 documentaries
submitted for 2014, 2015 to Oscars.
(09:00):
Yeah, it got shortlisted down to five.
So, just amazing from that standpoint.
Yeah.
That, that's
Scott (09:06):
absolutely amazing.
And, and just to kind.
And I just wanted to step back for,you know, I looked a little bit at some
of the links that you had sent us andthere's been some new stories and, and,
and for, for our listeners and whatI'll do is I'll, I'll cut in some of the
some of the new stories and reels, youknow, in the, in the earlier part of the
interview, so they get that foundation,but really you said you were six and
(09:28):
a half when you guys were basicallyevacuating out of the Saigon area.
So
Miki (09:32):
should I should I get into the story?
Jenn (09:36):
Make you when you're like, that's probably my father how many
helicopters ditched Leaving Saigon.
Was there more than one?
Miki (09:45):
Well, like you you know It's you see in time left magazine in
video many of the smaller Huey.
Sure.
Yeah,
Jenn (09:52):
absolutely They landed
Miki (09:53):
on the deck is a small enough to land on this particular deck.
Yeah, he was this Kirk Yeah, and thenthey pushed it over there, you know,
okay side So then they would push him to
Jenn (10:01):
get more on because they're not going to like put them in a hanger.
They're just going to push them off.
And then the next one would land.
Yeah.
Okay.
But your father is the only onethat actually ditched his aircraft.
Like he was the pilot.
He flew it into the water.
And ditched it.
Like he, he didn't.
Simply because
Miki (10:14):
it was just too big to land.
There's
Scott (10:15):
no room.
Oh yeah, Chinooks are big.
I've flown in Chinooks before.
Those are large aircraft.
Jenn (10:20):
Way too big for a frigate.
But there was no otherpilot that did that.
So when you're like, it's probablymy dad, it's probably because he's
the only one who ditched an aircraft.
Well,
Miki (10:32):
as far as, as far as I know now, if there's others that have
done that out there, it wasn't,it wasn't at least shared in the
community or talked about very much.
So I, I don't, I don't know,but I do know about my dad.
Okay,
Jenn (10:43):
cool.
Okay.
Yeah.
I just wanted to make sure.
Cause you're like, that's probably my dad.
I'm like, wow.
I was wondering how many.
I know that they pushed the aircraft off.
I know they were just gettingthe aircraft out and and getting
people out as quickly as possible.
But when I read about your fatheractively ditching, something that we
practice now in the Navy, but probablysomething he never practiced, and he just
did it off of what he knew as a pilot.
(11:04):
It's so interesting because from whatthe Navy probably saw him do, they're
probably like, okay, now we're going totrain people to do that because it worked.
Miki (11:14):
Well, yeah, fortunately it did rise either, either
death or survival in this case.
But from, from what I've, I've heard andin talking with other, other Navy folks,
you know, I, I think they, they train.
them to just hover over andthen kill the prop and then let
it, you know, sink and roll.
Jenn (11:33):
But like, just like your father did, you get everybody out
of the aircraft but the pilot.
Just like your father did.
Same scenario, right?
You, you, that's the highest chancefor survival is to get everyone out.
And let the pilot do an active ditch.
And because then you can control it.
So I think that's really cool.
Your dad was like a, a trend center.
(11:53):
He was a groundbreaker there.
Miki (11:55):
Yeah, just survival.
Do what you had to do.
Think quick.
Quick, quick on your feet, you know?
Yeah.
So had to, yeah.
So let's tell
Jenn (12:03):
the story.
Let's tell the story of fromyou're six and a half, what's
happening in Vietnam at the time.
Your father is a South Vietnamese.
officer.
He's a pilot.
Vietnam is falling.
What's going on with SouthVietnamese people and tell us the
story of your family survival.
Miki (12:21):
So yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll try to condense it as much as possible, but
there, but there are fun parts in therethat it's like you know, yeah, there's
just some, some interesting parts inthere, but for, for those that, you know,
May not know the full history of Vietnam.
It was a country highly desired interms of where its location close to the
water, been occupied by China, Frenchoccupation for hundreds of years, you
(12:44):
know, through its history and mostrecent, you know, up leading up to 1975
was the the desire to be independent,you know, the way that independent
from the French and other things.
But in this particular case thecommunists wanted to, you know,
gain control of the country.
(13:06):
And my dad being from the South withsupport from the U S. was involved
trained with America, with Americansin the early 60s, he had a chance a
couple of times to come over to Alabamaand to Texas for flight training.
And so, , you know what, he decidedto focus more around helicopters
(13:28):
and get training around that.
And so, fast forward to The last fewmonths leading up to April 29, 1975,
the communists were coming down andencircling the the city of Saigon.
And at this moment in time, I was, again,you know, six, six and a half So I'm
sharing the story from my perspective, butas we talk about the, you know, the book
(13:51):
itself, he wrote many of these storieshimself and, but the, the way that I'll
narrate it is from my perspective, butknowing, knowing that the the communists
was about to come down, he knew thatit was, it was time to start making,
you know, option A or option B andPerhaps option C, if if things didn't,
(14:17):
didn't, you know, didn't turn out well.
But as we all know they did, thecommunists did come down and the last few
nights my family, my mom and I, youngerbrother, younger sister had to, you
know, go to our grandma's house, whichis basically in the middle of of Saigon.
Okay.
And he told us to go there and he toldus that, you know, in the event of,
(14:39):
of things just falling apart I'm goingto come and get you somehow, someway.
We'll figure out this out, we'll go,we'll figure out option B. Because
if, if he would have gotten caught orcaptured, it would have been many years
of re education camp, which is hell.
Sure.
You know, his buddies and, and familymembers who didn't get the chance to
leave had to, you know, deal with thatconcentration, that, that camp activity.
(15:01):
But, in this, in this particularcase, knowing what he knew hearing
intelligence in the radio and in hissuperiors and his commanding officers
and everybody else simply knowing thatit's, you know, there is no other option.
They took off, they tookoff with their family.
He waited for orders until the very lastmoment where at this time, there was
no further orders for him to, you know,to execute this or execute that because
(15:25):
again, his superiors took off themselves.
Jenn (15:28):
Yeah, everybody was.
Trying to save their families.
Exactly.
Miki (15:31):
Exactly.
And so, at this point he you know, hehad what he called his, his horse, right?
His Chinook.
It's the only thing thathe can ride in and out of.
They bombed the the mainairport, Tangshanyuek airport.
Okay.
And so you couldn't take abig, you know, plane in or out.
(15:52):
So he flew the Chinook helicopterinto the the city towards my grandma's
house and mind you this was like,you know any metropolitan major
city and Just let you know Jen,you know Chinooks right the c 47.
It's loud thunderous.
You can hear that from miles away Oh,yeah, and it causes a commotion But
(16:12):
it then that net here is he landedthat thing in front of a my grandma's
playfield little school yard or aplayfield in the front and obviously,
you know, caused a lot of commotionin the neighborhood and many of the
homes back then had tin roofs and blewmany of those things up in a way, but
(16:33):
told his co pilot his lower the theback hatch and we all ran in and
to the back of the Chinook and Youknow, took that thing up quickly.
There are folks that aremilitary police around there.
You know, rushing towards him And sowe had to get the heck out of there.
Jenn (16:49):
Sure So let me ask you this So did your you went to your grandma's house?
I would assume because of the protectionas it's more central to the city.
It's going to It's going to takelonger for the North Vietnamese to
get into the center of the city.
So he's like, get there for protection.
Plus he has the LZ there, sohe has a landing zone picked
out because of the playground.
Now, were you the onlyfamily to get on board?
(17:11):
I mean, did other families see thisand want to try to save themselves too?
Miki (17:15):
Yeah, my dad's side has a lot of oldest, you know, son in the family.
He had a lot of brothers,my aunts and uncles.
But they, you know, as we wererunning into the Chinook, my mom
would look back, Hey, come on with us.
But they they said, yeah, gowith, go with your husband.
Okay.
From that same point.
And the reason why we were at mygrandma's house was because we were
(17:36):
living in Binwa, which was abouthalf hour away, a military base.
And obviously the military base wasprobably too hot of a zone to be there.
So that's why he movedmoved our family to grandma.
Jenn (17:48):
So it's just immediate family.
No uncles or aunts came.
Your grandmother didn't come.
No cousins.
It was just you guys.
Okay.
Yeah.
Miki (17:55):
No, many, many of them back then, you know, who was to say where, where
my dad would go and how we would end up.
And so nobody knew what was happening.
So perhaps some regret hearing therefrom the family members, not, not
going, but eventually some of them, youknow, had the chance to, to, to leave.
Jenn (18:13):
Yeah.
Miki (18:13):
So basically got out of, got out of Saigon, got out of that, that area
and headed further south just to getaway from the the city and to consolidate
with his other you know, other pilotstrying to figure out the next and the
thought was to get ration, get food,gas just gear up and try to find a a
(18:36):
remote island further south, just laylow and then figure out from there.
And that's what that's what we did.
That's what that's what my dad did wasjust met up with, you know, radioed the
other, the other folks, other folks,other pilots and met at a location and
if figure out what, what the next thingto do was, but he heard on the radio,
a lot of us communication chatter.
(18:56):
He also knew many of the usships that were still out.
In the Pacific there and the thoughtwas maybe go out there and check it
out and if there's a ship that wasbig enough, maybe they land on it and,
and get, get, get out of town, right?
So that's what, that's what he did.
He flew out towards the, the ocean.
There was no, therewas not an exact point.
(19:18):
He just flew out there tosee what, check it out.
And mind you, Jen, you probably know theydon't, you know, they don't have flotation
devices or any life jackets, you know, atleast with this Chinook that my dad had.
And so it was it was a risky effort togo out there not knowing exactly, you
know, what's going to be out there andif, if maybe he had enough gas to make
(19:40):
it out or to, to figure all that out.
But, eventually Flew outthere and on the distant.
He saw, you know a ship andHeaded in that direction.
Oh and as he got close to it eventually,you know throttled back a little bit
He didn't want to look too aggressive.
Sure, obviously kids, you know, thethe American Navy men below they were
(20:05):
everybody's heightened heightenedtension right not knowing that
this was a communist plane comingout and doing wrong to the ship.
So, as he approached it, you know, mymom, him and others, there's like about.
15, 16 people somewhere on thein the Chinook, our family.
And he had a co pilot and his gunnerand maintenance guy and their, their
(20:30):
girlfriends and things like that.
So, hovered up there and we cansee the, the ship below continuing
to, you know, maintain its course.
All right, just three or five knots, andhe kept hovering it and circling around
it, while at the same time that you cansee the folks below holding, you know,
holding big guns up at him, just did like,hey, you know, we got our eye on you.
(20:53):
And so, like a warning.
Yeah, just exactly.
And so, my dad with his broken English,you know, that he can speak was able to
communicate with the captain in the ship.
And finally the Captain Paul Jacobsyou know, talked with his crew and
started to figure out, you know, how,how to, how are we going to do this?
Is it how are we gonna, youknow, help Help this guy in, in
(21:17):
the, the folks in the Chinook.
And so in the video, there's a videoin the in the film where you can see
my mom holding up Mina, my, my yeah.
Baby sister, six month old, up to thewindow and say, Hey, there's, there's
women and, you know, kids on board here.
Yeah.
We need help.
And so with the the compassion and the the
(21:40):
the, the heart of the, the, youknow, Mr. Paul Jacobs, quickly just
scrambling to figure things out.
And so, finally, you know, okay, guys,we got we got to help this the pilot
up there in the Chinook up there.
And so basically the what my daddid was, and again, the the ship had
(22:00):
to maintain a steady course, right?
Instead of maintain a steady course.
And so he He hovered the the Chinooktowards the the stern, the, the rear side.
And obviously this particularUSS Kirk found out.
Later on was a a submarine, a destroyertype where it was looking for sonar
and just a lot of expensive equipment,very high tech back then, antennas,
(22:25):
radars, all of the surveillance.
And so he didn't want to.
My dad didn't want to get too closeto the all the, the mass and the
equipment because he can put thatship out of commission quickly.
Anything could have happened, you know,wind or a swell could have knocked you
know, the Chinook into the to the boat.
(22:46):
And so he hovered, he hovered behind,falling behind, he hovered the Chinook
behind the ship and, on the starboard.
Door open the door and hovered it loweredit down and we can we can see Hovered it
about 10 13 feet above the the deck and wecan see the American Navy men below hands
(23:08):
up and Jump right one by one we jump.
Scott (23:13):
Holy cow.
Miki (23:14):
Yeah and the last few that left the the Chinook, my mom had
to drop a seven month old baby,you know, onto the hand below.
That gentleman who caught my sister,his name is Mr. Mr. Chipman, met
him in Washington, D. C. Oh, wow.
Yeah, Texan.
That's amazing.
And just amazing reunion.
(23:36):
But Mr. Chipman and, and others downthere, you know, brave, brave Navy men
risked their life as well just to, tohelp us out and so we all got down,
we, I jumped down and the only injurywas one of the, one of the girlfriends
of one of the crew member sprained herankle, but fortunately everyone was okay.
(23:57):
They quickly ushered us, pushed usin inside, didn't want any kids or
anybody running out on the deck, right?
Jenn (24:03):
Sure.
Miki (24:04):
And so the last thing I see my dad, as I turned around, was he, him, you
know, hovering away from from the ship.
And so, went inside andthat was it for my own eyes.
That was the last time I saw my dad.
Everything else was just hearing storiesof him telling it and eventually seeing
all of the photos and everything elsefrom the U S Navy many years later.
(24:28):
But as I share this with youthrough, through what my dad shared
with me through dinner tables,you know, as we grew up, he.
Hovered away from the ship, 100 yards orso, and hovered the you know, hovered the
Chinook on the water so he can take offall of his gear and his gun, his sidearm
and, you know, the flat jacket, right?
(24:50):
I mean, it's hard to put that on, letalone take that off while he's hovering.
Get all the
Jenn (24:53):
weight off, yeah.
Miki (24:55):
Shoes, boots, you know, unstrapping all that.
He's only a regret.
But his only regret in this wholeexperience was and, and the only reason
why I found out was because of the book,you know, the, the section that he wrote.
But the regret was that he shouldhave asked his co pilot to at least
hold the rudder so he can take allof his stuff out once he's down, then
(25:15):
tell the co pilot to jump, right?
So he, yeah, he laughingly said, youknow, next time if I have to do this
again, I'm going to tell the co pilotto just give me like five minutes.
And also the other regret wasnot keeping his military ID.
Yeah.
All of the ID stuff.
Everything was gone.
I'm telling you.
Sure.
Started, started in this newworld with absolutely nothing, a
pair of shirt and boxer shorts.
Jenn (25:35):
That's amazing.
Miki (25:37):
So down to his, down to his undergarment and hovered there kicked
the the port door and the left side out.
Yep.
And basically with his With his right leg,pushed the rudder so that it would, you
know, lean towards the the right as hejumped over to his left into the water.
(26:02):
And he said, you know, the stories aroundthe dinner table tried to dive into the
ocean, but Tried it two or three times,but the saltwater is very buoyant.
You kept pushing them back up.
That was his biggest fear was ashrapnel or a blade or something.
Just, you know, in the water, right?
Or the dynamics of the Chinook could havebeen a, it could have flipped back on him.
(26:23):
Sure.
Because you can't really jump too far, youknow, just from this huge, huge aircraft.
But fortunately, you know,it leaned over to the right.
He was on the left.
And quickly on the third, thirdattempt diving, he dove down.
And finally.
(26:43):
You know, as I said in the film,he pops back up and he's alive
and it's like just huge relief.
They came there, they sent the littleskiff to come out and grab him.
And we can see the video of him sittingin the boat, just like probably thinking,
God, thank God almighty, I made it.
You know, and the first thing, the firstthing he said when he got on the ship,
(27:05):
it wasn't like, where's my wife and kids?
He's like, give me a cigarette.
Oh my gosh.
It's called that nerve down.
Absolutely.
So funny.
That's
Jenn (27:14):
so 70.
I can't imagine.
Yeah.
Miki (27:18):
Exactly.
Jenn (27:20):
It's such a pilot thing.
It's awesome.
Oh my gosh.
So a couple things, like I want toremind people, this is a frigate.
It's 15 feet off the water.
If he's hovering about 10 feet off thefrigate, he's 25 feet off the ground.
The frigate has to maintain a course,even a low course, just to keep it steady.
Yep.
Because those South China Seas are so big.
(27:41):
that if you were to stop, like,you're like, why doesn't he
just stop and they can hover?
It's going to rock so much that it'sgoing to be, he's going to be unable
to hover, especially at the side.
He has to hover to the side.
He's not hovering straight on.
He's hovering to the side to openthe door, to let people jump out.
And because he's doing that,he's probably looking over his
shoulder to maintain the hover.
(28:01):
And you have to maintain somekind of speed on the ship to
keep it as steady as possible.
So.
And he's doing 15 people.
So this is taking some time.
This is not just like two seconds.
This is taking some time to do.
And
Scott (28:16):
what people don't realize too, right?
You know, if, if you've ever spenttime on a ship, and right, have both
of us haven't been in the Navy youknow, those, those, the sea state
has, has a lot to do with that.
You know, there's multiple thingsthat, a factor here, right?
Chinook, if you're, if our listenersdon't quite know what a Chinook
is, or can't picture it in theirhead, picture that classic M.
(28:37):
A. S. H. helicopter, right?
Dual, dual rotors, a little bit longer.
And so that, that's, that'swhat he's flying, that CH 46.
And then on the ocean, you'll have swellssometimes, depending on the, like I said,
depending on the sea state, that are,that are changing how high the ship is,
by like 5 to 6 feet, and sometimes it'seven 10 to 15 feet, just on the swell.
(29:00):
So the ship, so you canfly the helicopter steady.
But you also have to keep aneye on the ship because the
ship is the thing that's moving.
It's actually the, thehelicopter is actually a little
bit easier to keep steady.
Whereas the ship, again,depending on the sea state.
So that's an incrediblydangerous thing to do.
And it's, it's, it's a miracle, you know,praise God that, that everybody came out.
(29:20):
Okay.
And then.
You know, people were jumping and your momhad to like basically just drop, drop your
sister to a sailor that's catching people.
Like if our listeners can picture thatin their head and then your father
flying off to the side, rolling itone way and jumping off the other, all
of this stuff is happening, I'm surein a relatively short period of time.
(29:41):
Your dad is a excellent
Jenn (29:42):
pilot.
And then, I want people to rememberthat the deck of a ship is steel.
So people are jumpingdown onto a steel deck.
And you guys are probably rushedinto the hangar, right behind there,
because to get people off the deck,clear the deck as quick as possible to
get more people on, as there's peopleon the deck catching these people.
And I love that your mom held upyour sister, because it's like an
(30:04):
international symbol of peace, a child.
Yeah,
Miki (30:08):
help.
Yeah.
Jenn (30:10):
So I think, I love, I love all that.
So, so we're leading into that.
Your father has Ditch theaircraft, which I think is amazing.
Like you said, you're not gonnajump away from the aircraft.
You're basically jumpingbeside the aircraft.
You don't have, like, thislong lateral distance.
Like, and you have to get over the cyclic.
Like, he has to get his leg overthe cyclic, and then jump over
the collective into the water.
(30:31):
So he's taking off all his weight,so he can dive, like you said.
And and hopefully the aircraft will row.
All the weight of ahelicopter's in the top.
So hopefully the helicopter willroll because the weight will pull it
over and like you said, he'll diveto hit all of the, everything flying
off of it because it's an activerotor at the time as it's going in.
And I just think it's great that he, hegets rescued with nothing but his, like,
(30:55):
skivvies on and then asks for a cigarette.
He's like, I did it.
It's such a pilot thing.
Like, look, I did the most badass thing.
You know what?
None of you pilots didthis and I got a cigarette.
Scott (31:07):
Oh my war.
So are
Jenn (31:08):
you gonna see him again on the ship?
Like are you guys reunited asa family on the ship and then
Miki (31:13):
Yes.
Jenn (31:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then transported toa bigger, a bigger ship.
'cause I'm, I'm sure therefugees coming in Yeah.
Are so high that they need to get you ona bigger ship that can handle more people.
That's right.
Because if frigate is not.
It's like a hundred andfifty people on board.
Miki (31:29):
Yeah.
Yeah.
We were only on there for less than24 hours before we were, another
ship came by to offload, right?
And that, and the USS Kurt stayedstayed in the, in the area.
Jenn (31:38):
Yeah, and a frigate too.
I mean, I was on a frigatefor my first deployment.
They can get closer to shore.
The draft is smaller.
So the draft of a ship is how muchit sticks underneath the water.
A frigate, because it's smaller,because it's the lower crew,
you can get closer to the water.
So they like to get the frigates Youknow, close and to offer some support.
(31:59):
So I think that's another reasonwhy the curt was probably closer
for your dad when he was coming out.
But I think that's great.
And I, if I remember correctly,the commanding officer was
like a six for three big guy.
Miki (32:10):
Oh, just a big, big heart, big guy.
I just I got goose pimplesthinking about him.
He passed away a few years ago in his 90s.
Wow.
But what a wonderful gentleman,wonderful crew, big, big heart,
towards the last few years in 2016.
(32:31):
2015, 16, 17 we were trying, youknow, with his help and others
that we were trying to get the U.
S. Navy to formally recognize hishumanitarian and compassionate, you
know, effort towards not only our family,but hundreds and hundreds of of other
families that basically did the samething was, you know, fly various planes
(32:56):
and helicopters out to to help and,Mr. Paul Jacobs, Captain Paul Jacobs,
I'll, I'll keep repeating that until theday I die, was one of those gentlemen
that just, you know, put aside anysort of protocols or any of this and
that, and just from one human to thenext human, I'm going to help you out.
Jenn (33:13):
Yeah.
Miki (33:14):
And for that, myself, my, my family, and my dad fully appreciate that.
100%.
Jenn (33:21):
Yeah.
That's what we love about the U. S.Navy, too, you know, so that's great.
And where, where was Jacobs from?
Do you know?
Miki (33:27):
Virginia.
Jenn (33:27):
Virginia.
Okay.
Miki (33:28):
I think so.
Yeah.
Around the D. C. area.
Jenn (33:31):
Yeah.
Very cool.
Miki (33:32):
Yeah.
Jenn (33:32):
Okay.
Okay.
So.
You're on the ship and how longuntil you get to America and I think
you go to Washington State, right?
Miki (33:40):
Yeah.
So, there's so many, so many partsof the story that I, I have to
filter myself because we can sit hereand talk for hours and hours, but
yeah, again, on there for 24 hours.
And then, and then another anothership came by to, to offload
us with hundreds of others.
And from one ship to, fromthere, we went to Wake, Guam.
Scott (34:02):
Mm
Miki (34:02):
hmm.
Yeah, and then eventually Hawaii.
Yep, and then went into a Camp Pendleton,Marine Yeah, Camp Pendleton in San Diego.
Yeah, and was there for a month or so andthen a Cross of Christ Lutheran Church
again, so many amazing people along thejourney to help, you know to help us
(34:25):
Cross of Christ Lutheran Church here inBellevue, which is about 45 30 minutes
away from Seattle Sponsored our familyAnd it helped us resettle from there.
Yeah.
Scott (34:37):
Yeah, that's amazing.
Now, for, for you, I mean, being sixand a half, you know, all this stuff
going on, do you have a lot of kindof, like, specific memories yourself?
Like, I know for me, if I try tothink back to, to my youth, usually
it's like I'll remember one specificthing about something that happened.
Like, oh my gosh, look at this ship.
Someone gave me, you know, icecream or something like that.
(34:59):
Like, I mean, do you have any memorieslike that of like being on the ship
yourself and interacting with the sailorsas you're leaving and can come into
Guam and then Hawaii and everything?
Miki (35:09):
Yeah, that's a, that's a great question because, you know, we all, we
all reflect back on our childhood andtheir moments and memories where it's
like, it stands out for me, six and a halfgrowing up on a military base and playing
with, you know, guns and I mean, they'reguns and all bullets and heavy military
(35:29):
just laying around the, the barrack andthe, you know, playing around all that.
But to answer your question on the shipitself, one of the things I do remember
is tasting military peanut butter inthe can that you, you know, rolled up.
Sure, yeah.
And chicklettes chicklettes militarychit, they were res Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That, I mean, specific toyour, to your question.
(35:49):
Yeah.
Those were the things that Iremember because, you know.
Exactly, exactly on the ship.
And we see, we see photos.
My dad's sitting there on theship just kinda like chilling,
talking with, you know, his buddiesand I'm, I'm, you know, brother
running around the, the ship there.
So, but yeah, I can I, that taste of thatpeanut butter, I can taste it right now.
(36:11):
That's the military peanut butter ration.
Scott (36:13):
Yeah, I, I love stories like that because for me, you know, that's
always what I. There's there's veryspecific things and it's not something
you would ever think of, right?
It's a smell that triggers an old memoryor something as something you taste
that's like that just takes you rightback You know to 30 40 50 years prior.
Yeah, and so I was thinking aboutthat as you were telling this
(36:33):
story I was like, I'm sure there'slike one thing that he just really
remembers, you know And if and it makessense to me that for a kid, right?
It's something that you're gonnataste, you know for the first
time so So I absolutely love that.
Now for the book, did your father writethe better portions of this book and
then it was finished up by, by youlike towards the end or how, how did,
(36:56):
how did that book get put together?
Miki (36:58):
Yeah.
So, as we settled it, you know, inthe saddle area here, eventually,
you know, came back and workedstudied electronics and eventually
the mom and dad the irony landed.
After a few, a few jobs here and there, helanded with Boeing, retired with Boeing,
the makers of, the makers of the Chinook.
(37:18):
My, my dad worked on the withthe space program back then,
Cold War, ICBMs, all of that.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Program.
So he had military, fortunatelymilitary, you know, support military.
to, to get involvedwith projects like that.
Sure.
And in his spare time, he loved writingand he wrote in obviously Vietnamese.
Still broken, broken, broken English.
(37:41):
Had to relearn, you know, my mom hadto learn English from, from scratch.
Settle and, and just workedhard, sacrifice, all of that.
All of that, all of those themes of havingto start over again but in, in this case,
he had free time and when he did have freetime wrote a lot in short stories that
were published in Vietnamese newspapers,not only in Seattle, but in other
(38:03):
Vietnamese communities all over the U.
S. And so, he wrote several, severalstories and in the past few years,
I was able to finally find manyof these files were documents cool
laying around and got it translated.
My, you know, leaving Vietnam.
I left one year old.
(38:24):
I mean, first grade.
Yeah.
And so, didn't get to to go further intomy own Vietnamese language and assimilated
quickly into America, into into, youknow, living in a, in a new country.
And so, yeah, in the past year herewas able to compile all of this.
And one of the things my mom told me.
(38:45):
was that his dream was to actuallyput his own book together, right?
Of all the short stories that he had.
Unfortunately with all, you know,Alzheimer's took, took him early and
and, and didn't get a chance to do that.
And so I wanted to, honor him.
And that timing was right in termsof 50 years since in 2025 here.
(39:06):
That we reflect back 50 yearsof the fall of of Saigon.
And so the timing was right and hence youknow, putting all this together, the book.
Scott (39:14):
That's great.
Oh, that's amazing.
I love that you were able to do thatbecause that's you get to re experience
some of that, you know, I'm sure asyou're, as you're collecting those stories
together and then reading back throughthem, putting them together that anything
you do like any project like that, allright, and I'm preaching to the choir,
you're really going to get into thatand really know how he felt and what
(39:35):
an what an amazing opportunity for you
Jenn (39:38):
Yeah, and it's a, I mean, this is a historically significant story, right?
This is something people need to know.
It's real.
It happened.
It happened to your family specifically,which means you can weigh in more on
the actual facts and what happened.
I mean, you're a primary source.
So it really is great foryou to tell this story.
And like you said, it's the50th anniversary and people.
(40:01):
You know, people are sometimesso confused about Vietnam.
They're so confused about what happenedthere and, and what was it about.
And I think this is, these kind ofstories need to be told by people.
Like, we need to understand whatwas happening there and what
happened to the people there.
And that, you know, whatAmerica tried to do to help.
And like, even your family coming toAmerica and, you know, assimilating
(40:24):
and being welcomed with open armsand being so You know a country
that was able to help in and giveyou guys a new life from nothing.
Yes.
From underwear, right?
Yes.
But the heroic thing your fatherdid to do that is just amazing.
And I think, I think more storieslike this need to be told.
(40:44):
Yeah.
And I think this is afantastic, real, historic story.
Scott (40:49):
They could make this into a Hollywood movie, in my opinion, right?
I mean That's, it's a culminating event,but a lot of uncertainty at the end
and, and all, all the stuff at play.
So, I love that you gotto put this book together.
Miki (41:01):
The you know, themes of leadership, survival.
Overcoming obstacles, all ofthose things, we all go through
it in our own personal way.
Absolutely.
This is just my dad's, you know, lookat it, approach it, life with it.
And so the book is filled with storiesof, you know, drama, excitement,
(41:25):
betrayal, survival, leadership.
All of those things it'sembodied within this book.
The and as I, you know, I shared withyou earlier in this conversation,
this was a story that I grew upas a kid, throughout my life.
Hearing my dad talk with hisbuddies, smoking a cigarette,
drinking a beer you know.
And listening in as I, you know, listeninginto these stories, and, and again, these
(41:49):
were stories for many, many years, andit wasn't, it wasn't again until the U.
S. Navy, all of this, you know,reconnection in, again, 2010, 2009
timeframe that finally saw pictures,finally saw some of these, And I'm
thinking I'm like, man, my dad was tellingthe truth, you know, we got pictures.
(42:12):
It's like that.
It's like that fishing story, right?
Your buddy.
Yeah.
I caught that, you know,that 25 pound salmon.
Oh yeah.
Where's the picture?
No picture.
Not, you know what I'm saying?
You know?
Yeah.
So we got, we got all of those.
So thank you for again,Captain Kirk, Jan Herman.
U. S. Navy, U. S. S. Kirk, allthe crewmen, and just, and the,
the, the church folks that havehelped us along this whole journey.
(42:36):
That's amazing.
That's
Jenn (42:36):
amazing.
So, where can people get your book at?
Miki (42:39):
Oh Barnes Noble.
Okay.
Amazon.
Just, it's, it's all online.
Jenn (42:43):
And then there's also the PBS special.
Miki (42:46):
Yeah, yeah, so the, the, the, the film Last Days in Vietnam, again, written
and produced by Rory Kennedy and team it'son Netflix and they're, you know, yeah.
Scott (42:55):
We'll include links to all of that stuff in the show notes and for the video
version of this podcast for you guys whoare watching we'll include links to, to
everything here in the video description.
And Mickey, you so much, thank youso much for, you know, reaching
out to us and joining us today.
We love hearing stories like this,especially as, you know, a veteran
and someone who's currently serving,you know, veteran one day myself and
(43:17):
just everything that your family didin the stories that you're getting
to tell of your father's heroism.
We, we really do appreciate you,you coming on and joining us and,
and telling your part of the story.
And I love the little anecdotes there.
You know, about the peanutbutter and the chiclets.
It just, it just makes me smile,
Miki (43:34):
I wanted to fulfill my dad's dream, number one, with
the book and to honor him.
It's the least I can do for him, givingso back, so much to myself and my family.
And to continue to share his his story.
This is, you know, the history, right?
His story.
Yeah, that's right.
This is my dad's story.
Yeah.
And so, Yeah, thank you both Scott andJen for the opportunity for me to be on
(43:59):
your platform and share my family's story.
Scott (44:02):
Yeah, well we're excited to get this out there and to share
this with our audience and hopefullypeople go check out the book.
Remind me of the officialname of the book.
Miki (44:10):
Oh, The Last Flight Out?
Scott (44:13):
The Last Flight Out.
And
Miki (44:14):
is that the
Jenn (44:16):
helicopter?
Miki (44:17):
That's that's him.
That's wow.
Jenn (44:19):
Yeah.
Scott (44:20):
All right.
So so folks check out the go goto their show notes and check out
the last flight out and Mickey.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Jenn (44:27):
Yeah.
Miki (44:27):
Thank you.
God bless you.
Thank you.
Scott (44:33):
Jen, I enjoyed his story so much.
It was, I, it was hard to fathomand then hearing him tell it from,
his perspective as a six and ahalf year old was just riveting.
Jenn (44:45):
You know, it's one of those that truth is braver than fiction,
you know, like what his father did is,is stuff that movies are made out of.
It's stuff you see in movies that you'relike, there's no way that could happen.
There's no way that would work.
And it did in his case and whathis dad did without any training.
He just did it.
I mean, a father's heart to get hisfamily safe and out of a country that's
(45:08):
about to fall like it was just amazing.
And to celebrate this on the 50thanniversary of the fall of Saigon.
More people need to understandwhat's happening in Vietnam and the
repercussions of that and what arefugee crisis looks like in this case.
It was just, it wasamazing to tell the story.
It
Scott (45:24):
was amazing.
I loved some of the anecdotesthat he told us about the
peanut butter and the chiclets.
If you guys are interested in this book,please look in the video description
or the podcast show notes descriptionfor a link to The Last Flight Out.
This has been a WalkWith History production.
Talk With History is createdand hosted by me, Scott Bennie.
Episode researched by Jennifer Bennie.
Check out the show notes for links andreferences mentioned in this episode.
(45:48):
Talk With History is supported byour fans at thehistoryroadtrip.
com.
Our eternal thanks to those providingfunding to help keep us going.
to Doug McLiverty, LarryMyers, and Patrick Bennie.
Make sure you hit that followbutton in your podcast player,
and we'll talk to you next time.
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