January 13, 2023 • 36 mins
TalkingHeadz is an interview format series featuring the movers and shakers of enterprise communications - we also have great guests. In this episode, we check in with Michael Beckley, Founder and CTO of Appian.
Appian is the unified platform for change. It promises to accelerate businesses by discovering, designing, and automating important processes. The Appian Low-Code Automation Platform unifies key capabilities needed to accelerate workflow.
As CTO, Michael drives the technical vision for Appian. He leads Appian’s product and solutions marketing teams, and oversees customer initiatives worldwide. Michael serves on the Industrial Advisory Board for the University of Virginia’s Computer Science Department and is a graduate of Dartmouth College.
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Episode Transcript
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Evan Kirstel (00:12):
Hey everyone on today's Talking Heads, we'll be
speaking with Michael Beckleyfounder and CTO at Appian. But
in the meantime, Dave, how areyou?
Dave Michels (00:23):
I'm doing great.
I'm here in Fort Lauderdale.
Where are you?
Evan Kirstel (00:26):
I am on my way to Fort Lauderdale getting out of
snowy, cold, rainy Boston.
Dave Michels (00:33):
Loser.
Evan Kirstel (00:34):
There's nothing like South Florida in the
winter. And it's just a perfect,perfect destination. Tell the
listeners why we are here.
Dave Michels (00:44):
We are here for the cloud Communications
Alliance Conference, which I'vebeen looking forward to for a
while. And I'm really excited tobe here too, because it's going
to be one of those rare timeswhere we get to actually
collaborate,
Evan Kirstel (00:55):
and meet and drink and eat and go out on a boat and
sit by the waterfront and talkcloud communications. You know,
there aren't any realconferences left that just focus
solely on Cloud communications,Contact Center, UCAS, etc. Yeah,
Dave Michels (01:14):
the majority of events, I go to our vendor
events. And so there'sEnterprise Connect. And there's
just a handful of really, what Iwould consider industry events.
And Cloud CommunicationsAlliance, for those that aren't
familiar with it is, is reallykind of geared at the service
providers, the independentservice providers that kind of
created this category. They'reat an interesting crossroads. In
fact, one of the sessions we'vegot moderating is discussion of
(01:34):
the platforms. We've got Metis,which for us is now part of
Microsoft, we've got broadsoft,which is now part of Cisco.
Alianza, we've got 2600 on thepanel. And we're going to be
talking about the platform'smatter what platform service
providers should be using, whatmodel they should be using,
whether they should be havingdata centers at all. I think
it's gonna be a reallyinteresting conversation. So
much has changed from theperpetual license concept to
(01:57):
recurring model. Everything haschanged over the past 20 years
in this space.
Evan Kirstel (02:01):
Wow, that's an interesting one. I'll be in the
audience heckling. I mean, livetweeting. Now, as usual, but the
future platform session isn'tthe only one you're doing one on
mobility. We I really thought wehad mobility. We have mobile
phones, right?
Dave Michels (02:13):
Yeah. We talked about I love the UCaaS mobility,
what I call 3.0, the thirdgeneration of mobility. We've
got solutions from Microsoft,Cisco RingCentral in reach. And
I think it's really a gamechanger. This is this is
basically the convergence ofUCAS, and mobility or cellular
coming together in one solution.
I think it's a reallyinteresting topic, looking
(02:35):
forward to that one. But afterthat is your session that I'm
really looking forward tobecause you're actually going to
be telling people how to bebetter at social. You know,
Evan Kirstel (02:45):
Dave, I've been trying to tell you how to be
better at social for at leasteight to 10 years, I have to
say, I feel I've failedmiserably at teaching you and I
blame the student, not theteacher, to be honest. But you
thought I was gonna say teacher,but no, I so I'm going to open
up my kimono. Figurativelyspeaking. And I'm going to give
(03:08):
everyone a full hands onworkshop on best practices,
tips, tricks, techniques, thetools for not just creating and
engaging on social but forcreating innovative content,
leveraging things like livevideo, and all of the features
and functions on the platformsto get noticed, get attention,
get engagement, something mostpeople and most companies
(03:30):
frankly, are missing out on. Socome and learn and roll up your
sleeves is key
Dave Michels (03:34):
to being effective on social, the absolute key that
you've demonstrated. It's justeasy. If you have a bazillion
followers, I think that's thekey. If you can just get that
piece done. That's all you need.
Evan Kirstel (03:44):
Well, you know, my first tweet was one of my best
tweets. So and I had zerofollowers. And I was at a Chucky
Cheese with my kids. They wereactually little at the time,
believe it or not. This isalmost 15 years ago, and I was
sitting around I like bored, youknow, the kids were running
around. And I'm looking for appsto download. So I downloaded
this thing called Twitter. Ityped in Wow, this Chucky
(04:07):
Cheese, it's like a casino forkids. And I just tweeted it no
followers. All of a sudden I gotall these lol ELLs that were
replies and laughed and thedopamine hit was off the charts.
It was so fun. And the rest ishistory. So yes, having
followers is important. Buthaving something to say that's
compelling, interesting, funny,and saying it in the right way
(04:29):
at the right time also matters.
So anyway, see you in FortLauderdale. And we're going to
have some fun and learn. Let'sget to our interview. All right,
let's do it.
god (04:39):
Talking. It's a semi monthly podcast with interviews
at the top movers and shakersand enterprise communications
and collaboration. Your hostDave Michaels and Evan
Kirkstall, both of which offerextraordinary services including
research, analysis and socialmedia marketing. You can find
them on Twitter, LinkedIn or attalking points. Calm. That's
(05:01):
points with the Z and Evan curseschool.com. That's que ir S T E
L.
Evan Kirstel (05:07):
Hey everyone, it's Evan here with talking heads
with Dave Michaels. And today wehave a special guest, Mike
Beckley, CTO and Founder ofAppian. A company we're going to
talk about Mike, how are you?
Hey,
Michael Beckley (05:21):
it's great to be here, Evan. Thanks. Well,
Evan Kirstel (05:23):
we focus here at talking heads on enterprise
communications, collaboration,CX and other topics. So this is
a little bit out of ourwheelhouse, but we're here to
learn. So we hope you're gonnaeducate us on all things no
code, low code, automation, RPAsomething or process mining,
whatever that is. More
Dave Michels (05:45):
low code. I don't know, low coders
Evan Kirstel (05:48):
doesn't know Dave doesn't know how to code. So
he's, he's a really a no codeguy. But maybe introduce
yourself, Mike and your longjourney at Appian. Yeah, sure.
Michael Beckley (06:00):
So thanks for that, Evan. And, you know, we
won't be too far outside of thewheelhouse here. And I think
we'll find so yeah, I'm MikeBeckley. I started appy and 23
years ago with a few friends,Matt Caulkins, my co founder and
CEO among them, and we set outto build a platform that allowed
companies to innovate and do itwithout having to be computer
scientists. So we should makeyou feel pretty comfortable.
(06:20):
Dave Appian is a leader in themarket for process automation
with low code. And we're usedprimarily by banks, insurance
companies, large governmentagencies,
Dave Michels (06:30):
are you saying that banks and insurance
companies are dumb? No, no,
Michael Beckley (06:35):
I'm saying that they need to innovate quickly.
And they don't always have thebudget or the time to write
custom code to solve all theirproblems. They need to be able
to innovate faster than you canjust writing a lot of custom
code. That's what our platformallows them to do. And so Nick,
an insurance company, in the UK,like Aviva that's been around
for over 300 years, they havegrown by acquiring hundreds of
(06:57):
different other companies. Andso their their system challenges
if they want to take care ofcustomers through that contact
center is incrediblycomplicated. And so they use
Appian, to unify 22 differentsystems and allow that 360
degree view of the customer thatCRM was supposed to provide. But
when you can't get all the datainto one CRM system, because it
never will fit it's toocomplicated a business than
(07:18):
Appian allows you to tie thatall together and use a low code
approach to build innovative newprocesses to automate how you
service those clients.
Dave Michels (07:27):
That sounds a lot like what Jeff Lawson from
Tullio was talking about, and wehit him on about Two episodes
ago. And he was talking aboutbringing all the customer data
together. And he was using theterm Customer Data Platform CDP.
But you know, the CVP Is thatcorrect?
Michael Beckley (07:44):
No, we're a complete solution for process
automation. So we well, Twiliohas long focused on the
communication aspects. Andthey've now branching out into
more and doing more and pullingthat data together. Appian has
focused on the actual end to endprocess automation. And so what
we offer is a data fabric thatties in all of the data, not
just the customer data, but alsothe risk data, the financial
(08:06):
data, any external systems,internal systems, and gives you
a way to unify that informationin a way you couldn't do before.
So that you can actually makerisk based decisions, for
example about are you onboardingthe right customer are they who
they say they are. And so beingable to unify in a single
dashboard that you build with,with low code that gives you
(08:27):
this visibility in real timeinto the risk metrics, and the
customer service metrics allowsthe company to not only grow
faster, but also do it in aregulatory compliant way, which
is important to our corecustomer base, which are the you
know, those big insurancecompanies and banks and, and of
course, the government entitiesthat regulate them.
Evan Kirstel (08:44):
This is all exciting. We're gonna dive very
deep, but I kind of want to goback a bit to the beginning.
Yeah. 23 and a half years is along time in tech. That's like
several lifetimes. It's severalyears did you you really set out
you graduated from Dartmouth,you went to a company remind me
of the name
Michael Beckley (09:02):
MicroStrategy Yes, that's company.
Evan Kirstel (09:04):
That's been my first strategy. Yes, it
Michael Beckley (09:06):
has become more notorious lately for Mike
sailor, the CEO is the Bitcoinking. He took all of
MicroStrategy is money they madefrom from software decades ago
and bought Bitcoin with it. Soand he's a very prominent
spokesperson for champion forcryptocurrency. So. So that's
where I started. That wasdecades ago. But Mike's his own
personality.
Evan Kirstel (09:24):
And so right away, you you had this vision of a new
way of developing software.
That's pretty early in thiswhole idea of a new paradigm for
development. Yeah,
Michael Beckley (09:35):
I mean, I don't want to suggest that 23 years
ago, we knew that we needed tobuild a data fabric and this low
code platform exactly the way itcame out. We didn't worry about
that. What we worried about washow do you build a platform for
innovation? Both as a culture asa business, how do you incent
your people to realize it'stheir job to think like
executives and be willing toburn down old business models
(09:56):
and old code to make way forsomething better? And then as it
technology that we were tryingto create. We wanted to empower
people to be creators, not justconsumers of data and systems.
Certainly it's been a greatevolution over the last 20 odd
years. But we have always stayedfocused on this simple premise
of how can you build a process,build an application. And if we
(10:17):
can make it twice as fast everytwo years for you to be able to
do that, then will unleash thecreative potential in everyone.
Evan Kirstel (10:24):
That's exciting.
So during that 23 years, thisconcept of robotic process
automation rpa, has really takenoff like wildfire, just like low
code. So are you playing in thatspace as well as the low code
space? Yeah, yeah.
Michael Beckley (10:41):
So we're driving, we believe in this
necessary convergence, we don'tthink that you can solve a
complete problem for ourcustomer, for example, with just
using bots, or just using lowcode. Bots are great when you
want to eliminate manual dataentry to a system you have
Dave Michels (10:56):
or write Christmas cards for all your customers.
Yes, exactly.
Michael Beckley (11:00):
But if you need it, you know, but a bot can only
work with a system you have.
That's why you need low code tocreate the systems you don't
have. If you want to create anentirely new service, a new
digital experience, bot isn'tgoing to help you do that. And
so with Appian, we provide acomplete picture for process
automation and low code. Andthat includes the bots and the
toolkit that allows you tocreate
Evan Kirstel (11:21):
this is fascinating, and I'm fascinated
just not by your approach.
You're a publicly tradedcompany, 2500 employees, but
this whole space is on fire. Andit's kind of confusing, because
there are hundreds of companiesnow with low code platforms,
toolkits, API's. How do you makesense of this whole space for us
here as neophytes in thismarket?
Michael Beckley (11:45):
Yeah. I mean, it's amazing how the space has
evolved. We, you know, we wentpublic five years ago in 2017,
our IPO, and we were the firstcompany to IPO as a local
platform. And since then, you asyou say, there have been
hundreds of entrants, bigcompanies, small companies,
startups, everyone trying tojump on the bandwagon. And
because it's so effective, andit's so easy to get into the way
we segment the market is wefocus on process automation,
(12:07):
typically for the missioncritical processes for missions
that matter, taking care of yourcustomers taking care of
regulatory compliance. And we dothat by providing the most
complete solution for end to endprocess automation. So there's a
lot of great tools out therethat are special purpose for
certain niches. But we thinkthat there's a necessary
convergence between, as you say,low code, and bots and AI and
(12:29):
people need to have many largeorganizations need to have
governance over all of thatchaos. And so they need a
complete answer, like Appian
Dave Michels (12:37):
locode, is talked about all the time now. Yeah.
What is your ecosystem? Nowthere are certain vendors that
you're often associated withcertain kinds of problems or
solutions you're oftenassociated with, how do you
segment that low codeopportunity to what you're
really best at?
Michael Beckley (12:52):
Yeah, so we're best at, I would say, customer
onboarding and regulatorycompliance for financial
services, insurance andgovernment agencies, around
other
Dave Michels (13:02):
certain vendors in your ecosystem that you've
always run into that you werealways kind of paired up with?
Or
Michael Beckley (13:07):
Yes, yes, we ended up always competing with a
small number of companies in thehigh end process automation
space, that would be a companylike pegah, out of Boston
Avenue, right in your backyardin Cambridge. And in the low
code space. We've seen entriesfrom ServiceNow, and Salesforce
as they have expanded beyond CRMand ITSM.
Dave Michels (13:26):
Yeah, okay. So I didn't mean to ask you to talk
about your competitors. I wastrying to figure out if there
are certain vendors that you'reoften working with, as part of
the solution is there? Oh, sure.
Of
Michael Beckley (13:34):
course. Yeah.
So Twilio, for example, is verycommonly a part of the solution,
or Avaya, or Genesis. So ifyou're thinking about in a
contact center perspective,there will be a contact center
solution typically and Appianwill be the case management and
process orchestration, that isproviding the intelligence into
those interactions. So we expandwhat you can do with your with
(13:56):
the way you engage with theirclients. Or on an operations
perspective, we're veryfrequently used in the middle
office and back office foroperations, where we will be
integrating with Oracle ERP, SAPERP systems, financial systems,
core banking systems. So there'sa host of players there. But if
you look at the Appian AppMarket, you'll see integrations
to hundreds of differentsystems, because across banking,
(14:17):
and insurance, is the winningcore insurance right? Company,
like guidewires is a strategicpartner of Allianz. We're not
trying to replace your coresystems. We're trying to allow
you to layer on an agility layerand be able to comply with new
regulations as they come out.
Dave Michels (14:34):
I'm trying to layer on an agility layer
myself.
Evan Kirstel (14:38):
Yes, failed.
Exactly. Let's shift a questionto the future because as they
mentioned, I'm obsessed withchat GPT and open AI at the
moment, it may or may not haveco written my last 12 blogs.
There's also an element of cocreation with Jack TPT. And that
is essentially no code or maybeyou call it low code. So what
say you about the future of AIgenerated code and all these
(15:01):
fascinating initiatives that arepopping up? Is that something
you're looking to embrace? Or isit too early or something else?
Michael Beckley (15:10):
Well, it's a bit of everything. I mean,
certainly too early and chat GPTis a really cool, fun thing that
we're all playing with it. Andwe've got integrations to
already that our engineers aredemonstrating. And yet, it's
still not available. And as acommercial product, and it's
still not secure. Everything yougive, it isn't got to be public
data. So it's not ready forprimetime. And it's not ready
for regulated business to beconducted with this chat tool.
(15:33):
But it does point to the future.
And a part of that future iscertainly going to be automating
more of the creative contentcreation that we have previously
assumed only humans can do. Andso as we think about an end end
process for creating somethinglike let's say, one of our
clients, s&p global, they're theones who are creating all those
reports about stocks, andupdating you on your
(15:54):
investments, and they have aninternational supply chain
creating it, well, you canimagine a future where AI
becomes more of a participant increating that content. And
humans are more editing andapproving it and validating it,
I definitely see chat GPT as apart of that low code future.
But I don't see it yet ready tocreate applications in a
meaningful way. And certainlynot meaningful applications. But
(16:15):
it's much more aboutsupplementing, how people can
create content of any kind.
Evan Kirstel (16:22):
Yeah, Dave, hopefully, you'll be using chat
GPT for to create yournewsletters, talking heads and
talking points in the future. Sotell us when it comes to the
buyer of Appian platforms? Is ittraditional it the CIO, kind of
type? Or is it business groupsand
Dave Michels (16:42):
sounds like the contact center? Sometimes?
Michael Beckley (16:44):
Yeah, there's there's a diverse set of buyers.
But typically, it's either an ITdecision where the CIO is trying
to create a capability andinnovation and agility
capability. And so they'remaking a platform decision to
build, you know, bring inProcess automation, bring in low
code, and say they have a wholebacklog of projects that they
want to address, or they'retrying to upgrade their ERP, for
(17:08):
example. And so they need a wayto customize their core systems
without having to write morecustom code because they're too
busy and distracted doing the,you know, the core systems with
their IT developers. And soAppian as a platform allows the
it buyer to do a lot more anddeliver a lot more for the
business quickly and collaboratewith the business. But equally
common is approach where we'regoing directly to the business
(17:30):
and solving a specific problemwith process automation. So it's
not uncommon that a regulatorwill say, alright, we find a
deficiency with the way you'rehandling your risk assessments
at the bank, or, you know, therewas a headline this morning, one
of the big crypto exchangesreached $100 million settlement
with the regulators and part ofthat settlement is they have to
actually implement newcompliance technology. And so
(17:54):
that's a common time we'll get aphone call or an email saying,
hey, Appian, can you help us outbecause they don't want to rip
and replace their core customersmanagement systems are their
contact center or their theircore banking, but their core
financial systems, but they canlayer on Appian. And we can work
with what they have and givethem an innovative new way to
not only onboard customersquickly, but do it in a
regulatory compliant way.
Dave Michels (18:13):
So he's brought up crypto twice now working with
MicroStrategy. And the exampleyou just gave, so why not just
do what Michael wouldMicroStrategy did and just put
all your money in? And
Michael Beckley (18:26):
look, I think Mike sailors is a really
creative guy. And I learned alot working with him 25 years
ago, but
Dave Michels (18:32):
I'm actually surprised how articulate he is
when I listen to an in depthinterview he did. And I thought,
well, I was just here, theselittle sound bites from him. You
don't know what's behind that.
But when I actually heard hislong form interview, I was
actually really impressed. Yeah,
Michael Beckley (18:44):
he's he's an incredibly brilliant articulate
guy. That being said, He'sgambling everything on one
thing, and I hope he's right forhis sake and his investors, but
as a huge gamble, and frankly,it has nothing to do with our
business. We are a softwarecompany, we empower people to
eliminate risk. And what I haveseen is that there is nothing
but trouble if you are a gamblerout there trying to forecast
(19:08):
which way the price of Bitcoinis gonna go. I mentioned crypto
only because it's an example ofwhat is topical and new in
regulatory issues challengingour clients in banking and
insurance, because customers areexpecting that they can use
whatever's new and innovative inpayment technology, and their
customers demand it and anystartups willing to offer it.
(19:28):
But that challenges thetraditional players who are my
clients, the NatWest banks ofthe world, the five of six top
UK banks all use Appian. Youknow, and the big US banks as
well. And so how do they complywith these new regulations? I
could have just as easilymentioned ESG, environmental
sustainability and governance.
Investors today want to do goodwith their money, that's a
customer demand. They want to beable to not just make money on
(19:49):
their investments to be securetheir own retirement, but make
sure that that money is going tocompanies that are helping the
world not hurting it, helpingthe environment.
Dave Michels (19:58):
So you know, We have customers so far already in
this conversation, and lot ofthem are European. So obviously
you go to market in Europe,you're over here, right? Where
are you based?
Michael Beckley (20:09):
Yeah, I'm based in our headquarters outside of
Washington, DC in McLean,Virginia. But Appian is a global
business. And we do significantbusiness in in Europe and in the
US, and then Australia andSingapore and Japan.
Dave Michels (20:20):
How do you go to market? Are you are you out
there personally, at every tradeshow, are you
Michael Beckley (20:27):
as the Chief Technology Officer, I spend a
lot of time on more digitalsales motions like this. But we
do. I was out in London forAppian Europe giving the keynote
address to our clients just lastmonth, and we do come and go
visit our different countryoffices around the world. But
mostly we you know, we also gothrough our partner ecosystem,
there are hundreds of largesystem system integrators and
(20:49):
specialists who deliver Appianfor our clients and deliver
their digital transformationprojects. So so when
Dave Michels (20:55):
they do that, is it still Appian? Or do they
rebranded? Or how do you? Yeah,use Appian? Without even
realizing it? Yes. So
Michael Beckley (21:03):
most of the time, the buyers know it's
Appian. Most of the time, it'sAccenture, or Deloitte or
Infosys, or some other globalsystems integrator that is
delivering the project. And thenthe actual users at a bank,
though, they'll see that it oran insurance company or a
government agency, they'lltypically see that it's the name
of whatever branding that thatinternal initiative has. So they
(21:24):
may call that software, whatevercool new acronym is for the
change project there. And sothat's the different way in
which they may interact with us.
There are companies buildingsolutions on Appian that are
that are white labeled, but thatis not how our core go to
market. Typically, you deal withus directly or you know, through
a systems integrator.
Evan Kirstel (21:42):
You mentioned government a couple of times,
yes, I assume that could bestakeout local, federal
government, governmentsoverseas. I guess my big
question is, can you transformthe IRS to get out of closing
business practices or Nocomment?
Michael Beckley (21:57):
No, absolutely.
We would love to work with theIRS, we'd be happy to help them
transform their processes.
Dave Michels (22:02):
I'm not sure if sailor likes us would agree with
you on that.
Michael Beckley (22:05):
Yeah, he's Yeah, he has his own tax issues.
But we work a lot with the USfederal government, but we work
with over 200 different publicsector agencies around the
world. So the Texas Departmentpublic safety, they've
transformed the way they dotheir procurement with APA. And
they needed a custom way ofwriting contracts that would fit
with their own rules, and yetallow them to innovate and go
fast. And in three months, theywere able to implement an
(22:27):
entirely new contract writingsystem in Appian. And they've
already run $2.6 billion worthof contracts through it. So
that's a perfect example ofwhere you don't find a good off
the shelf contract writingsoftware solution from Microsoft
or Oracle or, you know, oranyone else. And yet, you know,
you've got unique rules, complexrules, it's big dollar figures,
you've got to have auditability,governance control, and yet
(22:49):
flexibility because it's allabout the mission, you've got to
be able to get the contractsexecuted, so people can innovate
and be empowered, and not bestuck in the old bureaucracy and
paperwork in the past. And soyou know, the speed and agility
of a process automationplatform, like Appian is
definitely great fortransforming government and
helping government agenciesimplement case management
(23:09):
systems as well, just like yourtypical audience member is
working in a contact center andfor a large company. The
government has many huge callcenters themselves trying to
help citizens get somethingdone.
Evan Kirstel (23:22):
Yeah, don't tell Dave about not living in the
past. He really enjoyed theliving in the past part. But
another industry I'm interestedin I suspect you are as well as
healthcare. Health IT there'sthe big hims event. I'll be
coming up in April, Chicago, Iimagine you have a lot of
healthcare clients, given theneeds there. What are you seeing
there?
Michael Beckley (23:42):
Yeah, we do particularly in life sciences
and health insurance. What we'reseeing is always a need from the
from the pandemic to improve thespeed and accuracy of clinical
trials, and to bring new drugsand therapies and devices to
market. We work with all mannerof different medical device
manufacturers and pharmaceuticalcompanies. And the clinical
(24:02):
research outsourcers you knowthat whole life sciences
business has transformed andgone global itself. And that
actually creates incrediblechallenges. Because if you want
to even create a new drug andtest it, well, you're working
with laboratories around theworld, and regulators around the
world. And so how do you bringtogether all the different
paperwork requirements, you haveto initiate a new clinical trial
(24:24):
Appian, automates all that foryou and gives you that
visibility so that you can anyremember, the amount of time a
drug spends on market is the wayyou can pay back that
multibillion dollar investmentit takes to bring it to market.
And so the faster you can bringit to market because your patent
starts long before the drugactually is available to safely
sell through your distribution.
So by shortening that cycle, wecan actually help companies get
(24:46):
much better return on theirinvestment but also bring those
therapies to market helppatients faster. And then that
leaves more r&d money to helpwith the next by lowering the
barrier to entry for initiatinga new drug trial. That means we
can More things and help morepeople, vaccines, obviously top
of mind, the Food and DrugAdministration in the US is
actually standardized on Appianfor their low code platform. So
(25:08):
we're trying to help them betterinspect facilities around the
world who are making these drugsand therapies and vaccines for
us, and keeping them safe. Soit's a tremendous area of
innovation. But again, anythingyou do is so constrained by the
need for and good need forregulatory compliance.
Everything you're doing affectspeople's lives. So we have to
(25:28):
have validation that it'scorrect. And it's going to
satisfy the needs of all thesedifferent stakeholders. That's
our goal of happiness to allowyou to be creative and be
empowered. And let us automateall that boring paperwork.
Dave Michels (25:42):
So if you're heavily involved in healthcare,
there's something like thepandemic help your business?
Michael Beckley (25:50):
It did, it really did. Strangely enough, we
saw explosive growth in ourbusiness because of the added
demand for automation and theadded interest in demand for
moving faster.
Dave Michels (26:00):
Was that primarily from the healthcare or was it
more from contact center? Orwhat caused your business to
benefit from the pandemic? Yeah,
Michael Beckley (26:06):
well, part of it was the whole need for
financial services and insuranceto go digital. You know, the
idea of going in person to dothings was immediately
invalidated by the pandemic. Andso that whole digitization
demand for Process Automationwas a huge driver in our core
business, but also in anybusiness. And then the life
sciences firms and thegovernment agencies were
(26:27):
similar. And like I said, thatwork at the FDA, for example,
all that demand and drivinginterest and focus comes from
the, you know, the pandemic forpeople to see how important that
work is. And it's important tobe improved and overhauled. By
the same token, we're talkingabout a recessionary economy
now. And in a recession, well,you have more scrutiny from the
regulators, because there's morerisk in the economic
(26:48):
environment, and they need tomake sure that those banks are
solvent, and that they're notmaking risky loans. And so, at
the same time, customers are,like I said, demanding new
technology, and they want speed,your banking, customer,
insurance, customer, they wanteverything to be digital, they
want it all to be on theirphone, they want it all to be
now and they want to pay for itand Bitcoin, apparently. So it's
like, how do you meet the needsfor these new digital
(27:10):
experiences, but do it in aregulatory compliant way? So
you're not exposing yourinstitution to undue risk? And
so that's, again, driving moreinterest for us. It's not
uniformly good. I mean, badtimes or bad times? If, but
there is a silver lining in allof it, especially for a firm
like ours.
Evan Kirstel (27:25):
Yeah, we need we need more silver linings. You
know, a lot of big tech and andstartups are downsizing. We see
the big consolidating Salesforceannouncement riff that was quite
a surprise to me. What's yourjust general outlook on the
market? Are you like Dave hashalf glass empty? Or are you
more half glass full kind of guythis year?
Michael Beckley (27:46):
I'm actually incredibly optimistic on this
year. You know, I think that, ofcourse, companies that
dramatically overexpanded haveto pull back and companies that
are very large tended to expandeven more. And so yeah, it's I
don't think it's I wasn'tsurprised to see Salesforce have
to pull back Amazon has pulledback even more. This is a moment
where the very largest companiestheir only lever, in overall
(28:09):
flat growth is to cut costs. Acompany like ours, well, we're a
big company, you know, 2420 2500people, we're not so big that
the overall economy is a is amajor factor. For us. It's, it's
much more about what ourcustomers need. And right now,
thankfully, because we'veinvested for years in building
this data fabric that allows youto innovate without having to
(28:30):
rip and replace things, allowsyou to consolidate systems
allows you to be more efficientwith our process automation.
We've anticipated that thiswould be great technology and
good times, but it's necessarytechnology and bad times.
Evan Kirstel (28:41):
Fantastic.
Dave Michels (28:42):
You said 23 years you've been in businesses.
That's right. Yeah.
Michael Beckley (28:45):
1999 We started so that's
Dave Michels (28:46):
a lot of cycles.
You've seen a lot of a lot ofdifferent AI cycles, a lot of
different hype cycles.
somebody's heart transplantcycles is that
Michael Beckley (28:54):
that's only I'm only on my second hearts this my
I've had one heart transplant.
Evan Kirstel (28:58):
Alright, so we kind of glossed over that. So
I've actually never, this was inyour bio. So I don't think we're
asking anything. No, no order.
No HIPAA violations here. I'venever never talked about with
someone who had a hearttransplant. Explain that
process, if you would, becauseit's extraordinary.
Michael Beckley (29:15):
Yeah, yeah.
It's pretty unusual. It's aboutyou know, there aren't too many
of us out there. Okay. I had aheart transplant. 12 years ago,
I had a genetic heart condition.
I inherited a defective heart,if you will. And so I always
knew that, you know, this wouldbe either I got a new heart or
it would be game over. So mygrandfather, he died at age 36.
(29:37):
And I got my heart transplantwhen I was 36. Interesting thing
about that is he actually wasnot able to go off to fight in
World War Two like his brothersdid, because he was ineligible
for the draft due to his heartcondition in World War Two. So
he went to work with the army onone of the first computers on
their electronic accountingmachine, they call them back
(29:57):
then, you know, punchcardcomputers and so He passed on
that interest in technology tohis daughter, my mother. And
that stayed with her long afterhe was gone. And so she sent me
and my brother to programmingcamp when we were kids, were it
not for this heart condition, Iprobably wouldn't have been
coding in basic when I was sixyears old. And so that's that's,
Evan Kirstel (30:17):
you know, whose heart you received? Is that part
of the process of learning?
Michael Beckley (30:21):
Yeah, so it's an anonymous process. But as a
as a recipient, you have theopportunity to send a letter to
the donor family. And in mycase, they also wanted to meet
me. So that matching happensvoluntarily on both sides, you
know, both the the family has towant to meet you, and you have
to want to meet them. And soI've had the privilege to meet
my donor family, there areincredible people. And my donor,
(30:44):
his name was is Travis Burch.
And he was a 19 year old boy whohad just graduated from high
school and his whole future infront of him, he had just
enlisted in the Navy, wanted tosee the world. And yet he had
the thought and the selflessnessto decide that he was gonna be
an organ donor. And so he, youknow, he told his mother that if
anything happened to him, atleast he was going to save a
bunch of people anyway. Andunfortunately, that's what
happened. It's just so humbling.
(31:07):
When you when you meet peoplelike this, their families,
obviously make them that way.
And so it's a real privilege.
It's like having another family.
Evan Kirstel (31:14):
Yeah, it's amazing. I'm getting chills just
hearing your story. Thanks somuch. I often say to Dave
Michaels get a hawk have a heartbut really doesn't listen. Well.
Do you still code Do you stillYeah, all those years ago basic
I coded in basic Of course,that's I still level of my
knowledge. But do you get thetime to write was it on a trs
(31:35):
80? It was on a crash ad? Yeah.
Michael Beckley (31:37):
Yeah. So I learned to code on Apple twos, I
had the distinct joy of havingSteve Wozniak be our keynote
speaker at an ambient event afew years back, and I'll tell a
quick story about Steve. He's aprankster. He's always been a
prankster. And so the way he gotat me was, I had given him and
his team, all of the questions Iwas going to ask him on stage
(31:57):
ahead of time. And I'd put awhole lot into this because of
course, he's inspiration of mineis, you know, a great innovator
and an entrepreneur. And, and soI found questions that no one
had asked him in public stagesbefore, right. And so he goes up
and gives a little speech beforeand right before he goes
onstage, he says to me, I reallyenjoyed the questions you came
up with, they were, you know,creative and different. You
(32:17):
know, this is really great. Andwe're gonna have a great
interview. And he goes up onstage and proceeds to change his
routine speech and answer eightof the 10 questions that I had
planned to write and ask him.
And then he turns and says, No,come on, on stage, Mike.
Evan Kirstel (32:37):
That's thinking quick on your feet. That sounds
like a Steve Jobs move, not awise move that something was or
do you but he did, he would havedone
Michael Beckley (32:45):
was did it with love. Okay, he did. So, and he
gave me a big hug afterwards,always really, you know, sweet
guy. And I don't mean to busthim on that. I just think that
it was. He's someone who trulyloves technology. And do I still
code, I do it for fun. I've gothundreds of fantastic engineers,
computer scientists, expertshere who are delivering high
quality code. And that allows anamateur like me to focus on
(33:08):
having fun with code and
Dave Michels (33:11):
DC, are they all over the world,
Michael Beckley (33:13):
most of them are here in our headquarters in
Washington, DC, which is anotherunusual and different thing
about Appian. But we have grownby a couple of recent
acquisitions, I added a datascience team in Berlin, we are
incredibly excited to work withthem and their process mining
experts, German process expertsmakes a lot of sense. And so we
had that opportunity to acquirethis great group of data
(33:33):
scientists, you know, to get 50of them all at once. You know,
it's a rare thing. So we'reexcited to have them as part of
the team. And before that, acouple of years ago, we we also
found a fantastic team ofrobotic process automation
experts in Spain. And so we havea development center in severe
and we have a development centerin Berlin. And this year, I know
after 23 years, we just openedour first Dev Center in India.
(33:54):
And so we're growing. We've beenthere. I have not been there
now. And you know, I would loveto go see it.
Dave Michels (34:00):
Yeah, I think I think you need to have an idol
accompany you on that.
Evan Kirstel (34:04):
Speaking of trips, any any trips planned, is there
an Appian world coming up orsome other cool event that
you're heading out to the nextmonth or two or three? Well,
Michael Beckley (34:13):
so Appian Europe just happened in London,
Appian. world this year will beat the end of April, beginning
of May, I think and that will bein San Diego. This
Evan Kirstel (34:21):
alright, I can use a trip to San Diego. What do you
think they?
Dave Michels (34:24):
Yeah, I think I think
Michael Beckley (34:26):
I think we'd love to have you out in San
Diego. It's a fantastic venue agreat place to come learn a lot
more about what our customersare doing with process
automation and low code. Yeah.
Well, thanks
Evan Kirstel (34:36):
so much.
Dave Michels (34:37):
That's in Diego, of course, is a big naval town.
Michael Beckley (34:40):
It is. Yeah. I mean, AFCEA. West will be coming
up in February. And I'm surewe'll be exhibiting there.
Evan Kirstel (34:45):
Great. Awesome.
Awesome. Well, thanks so muchfor joining us and educating us
and Dave in particular onautomating no code and having a
heart and all that good stuff.
Was really actually This isgreat conversations one of my
favorite over the last fewmonths. So thanks so much
Michael for joining us. Andwe'll be watching all things
(35:07):
IBM. It's fascinating journey.
Michael Beckley (35:09):
Thanks for the invite Evan and Dave, look
forward to it. Thank you. Allright.
Dave Michels (35:15):
Well, that was one of our first interviews I think
that really had some heart
Evan Kirstel (35:18):
to that was quite upon that was a good one, or a
bad one depending on yourperspective. But yeah, a company
that you know many of us haven'theard of is killing it. Again,
no pun intended. When it comesto this whole space and may
shine the light on opportunitiesin the UCAS and telco and
communication space you know,people need more tools.
Dave Michels (35:39):
I think that's really important because so much
of the UCAS technology and theCTSA nology is really becoming
more mature and the opportunityis more around these adjacencies
and bringing it bringing allthese pieces together. So I
thought Michael really had somegreat insights on that low code
no code man is the future
Evan Kirstel (35:56):
well not for us we're too old to code in any
language but definitely for manyout there it is indeed the
future and we'll see you nextepisode
Unknown (36:06):
you can make a conversation
them I gotta get out of thephone. Don't don't read your
(36:29):
phone. No man knows me.
Hey everyone on today's Talking Heads, we'll be
speaking with Michael Beckleyfounder and CTO at Appian. But
in the meantime, Dave, how areyou?
Dave Michels (00:23):
I'm doing great.
I'm here in Fort Lauderdale.
Where are you?
Evan Kirstel (00:26):
I am on my way to Fort Lauderdale getting out of
snowy, cold, rainy Boston.
Dave Michels (00:33):
Loser.
Evan Kirstel (00:34):
There's nothing like South Florida in the
winter. And it's just a perfect,perfect destination. Tell the
listeners why we are here.
Dave Michels (00:44):
We are here for the cloud Communications
Alliance Conference, which I'vebeen looking forward to for a
while. And I'm really excited tobe here too, because it's going
to be one of those rare timeswhere we get to actually
collaborate,
Evan Kirstel (00:55):
and meet and drink and eat and go out on a boat and
sit by the waterfront and talkcloud communications. You know,
there aren't any realconferences left that just focus
solely on Cloud communications,Contact Center, UCAS, etc. Yeah,
Dave Michels (01:14):
the majority of events, I go to our vendor
events. And so there'sEnterprise Connect. And there's
just a handful of really, what Iwould consider industry events.
And Cloud CommunicationsAlliance, for those that aren't
familiar with it is, is reallykind of geared at the service
providers, the independentservice providers that kind of
created this category. They'reat an interesting crossroads. In
fact, one of the sessions we'vegot moderating is discussion of
(01:34):
the platforms. We've got Metis,which for us is now part of
Microsoft, we've got broadsoft,which is now part of Cisco.
Alianza, we've got 2600 on thepanel. And we're going to be
talking about the platform'smatter what platform service
providers should be using, whatmodel they should be using,
whether they should be havingdata centers at all. I think
it's gonna be a reallyinteresting conversation. So
much has changed from theperpetual license concept to
(01:57):
recurring model. Everything haschanged over the past 20 years
in this space.
Evan Kirstel (02:01):
Wow, that's an interesting one. I'll be in the
audience heckling. I mean, livetweeting. Now, as usual, but the
future platform session isn'tthe only one you're doing one on
mobility. We I really thought wehad mobility. We have mobile
phones, right?
Dave Michels (02:13):
Yeah. We talked about I love the UCaaS mobility,
what I call 3.0, the thirdgeneration of mobility. We've
got solutions from Microsoft,Cisco RingCentral in reach. And
I think it's really a gamechanger. This is this is
basically the convergence ofUCAS, and mobility or cellular
coming together in one solution.
I think it's a reallyinteresting topic, looking
(02:35):
forward to that one. But afterthat is your session that I'm
really looking forward tobecause you're actually going to
be telling people how to bebetter at social. You know,
Evan Kirstel (02:45):
Dave, I've been trying to tell you how to be
better at social for at leasteight to 10 years, I have to
say, I feel I've failedmiserably at teaching you and I
blame the student, not theteacher, to be honest. But you
thought I was gonna say teacher,but no, I so I'm going to open
up my kimono. Figurativelyspeaking. And I'm going to give
(03:08):
everyone a full hands onworkshop on best practices,
tips, tricks, techniques, thetools for not just creating and
engaging on social but forcreating innovative content,
leveraging things like livevideo, and all of the features
and functions on the platformsto get noticed, get attention,
get engagement, something mostpeople and most companies
(03:30):
frankly, are missing out on. Socome and learn and roll up your
sleeves is key
Dave Michels (03:34):
to being effective on social, the absolute key that
you've demonstrated. It's justeasy. If you have a bazillion
followers, I think that's thekey. If you can just get that
piece done. That's all you need.
Evan Kirstel (03:44):
Well, you know, my first tweet was one of my best
tweets. So and I had zerofollowers. And I was at a Chucky
Cheese with my kids. They wereactually little at the time,
believe it or not. This isalmost 15 years ago, and I was
sitting around I like bored, youknow, the kids were running
around. And I'm looking for appsto download. So I downloaded
this thing called Twitter. Ityped in Wow, this Chucky
(04:07):
Cheese, it's like a casino forkids. And I just tweeted it no
followers. All of a sudden I gotall these lol ELLs that were
replies and laughed and thedopamine hit was off the charts.
It was so fun. And the rest ishistory. So yes, having
followers is important. Buthaving something to say that's
compelling, interesting, funny,and saying it in the right way
(04:29):
at the right time also matters.
So anyway, see you in FortLauderdale. And we're going to
have some fun and learn. Let'sget to our interview. All right,
let's do it.
god (04:39):
Talking. It's a semi monthly podcast with interviews
at the top movers and shakersand enterprise communications
and collaboration. Your hostDave Michaels and Evan
Kirkstall, both of which offerextraordinary services including
research, analysis and socialmedia marketing. You can find
them on Twitter, LinkedIn or attalking points. Calm. That's
(05:01):
points with the Z and Evan curseschool.com. That's que ir S T E
L.
Evan Kirstel (05:07):
Hey everyone, it's Evan here with talking heads
with Dave Michaels. And today wehave a special guest, Mike
Beckley, CTO and Founder ofAppian. A company we're going to
talk about Mike, how are you?
Hey,
Michael Beckley (05:21):
it's great to be here, Evan. Thanks. Well,
Evan Kirstel (05:23):
we focus here at talking heads on enterprise
communications, collaboration,CX and other topics. So this is
a little bit out of ourwheelhouse, but we're here to
learn. So we hope you're gonnaeducate us on all things no
code, low code, automation, RPAsomething or process mining,
whatever that is. More
Dave Michels (05:45):
low code. I don't know, low coders
Evan Kirstel (05:48):
doesn't know Dave doesn't know how to code. So
he's, he's a really a no codeguy. But maybe introduce
yourself, Mike and your longjourney at Appian. Yeah, sure.
Michael Beckley (06:00):
So thanks for that, Evan. And, you know, we
won't be too far outside of thewheelhouse here. And I think
we'll find so yeah, I'm MikeBeckley. I started appy and 23
years ago with a few friends,Matt Caulkins, my co founder and
CEO among them, and we set outto build a platform that allowed
companies to innovate and do itwithout having to be computer
scientists. So we should makeyou feel pretty comfortable.
(06:20):
Dave Appian is a leader in themarket for process automation
with low code. And we're usedprimarily by banks, insurance
companies, large governmentagencies,
Dave Michels (06:30):
are you saying that banks and insurance
companies are dumb? No, no,
Michael Beckley (06:35):
I'm saying that they need to innovate quickly.
And they don't always have thebudget or the time to write
custom code to solve all theirproblems. They need to be able
to innovate faster than you canjust writing a lot of custom
code. That's what our platformallows them to do. And so Nick,
an insurance company, in the UK,like Aviva that's been around
for over 300 years, they havegrown by acquiring hundreds of
(06:57):
different other companies. Andso their their system challenges
if they want to take care ofcustomers through that contact
center is incrediblycomplicated. And so they use
Appian, to unify 22 differentsystems and allow that 360
degree view of the customer thatCRM was supposed to provide. But
when you can't get all the datainto one CRM system, because it
never will fit it's toocomplicated a business than
(07:18):
Appian allows you to tie thatall together and use a low code
approach to build innovative newprocesses to automate how you
service those clients.
Dave Michels (07:27):
That sounds a lot like what Jeff Lawson from
Tullio was talking about, and wehit him on about Two episodes
ago. And he was talking aboutbringing all the customer data
together. And he was using theterm Customer Data Platform CDP.
But you know, the CVP Is thatcorrect?
Michael Beckley (07:44):
No, we're a complete solution for process
automation. So we well, Twiliohas long focused on the
communication aspects. Andthey've now branching out into
more and doing more and pullingthat data together. Appian has
focused on the actual end to endprocess automation. And so what
we offer is a data fabric thatties in all of the data, not
just the customer data, but alsothe risk data, the financial
(08:06):
data, any external systems,internal systems, and gives you
a way to unify that informationin a way you couldn't do before.
So that you can actually makerisk based decisions, for
example about are you onboardingthe right customer are they who
they say they are. And so beingable to unify in a single
dashboard that you build with,with low code that gives you
(08:27):
this visibility in real timeinto the risk metrics, and the
customer service metrics allowsthe company to not only grow
faster, but also do it in aregulatory compliant way, which
is important to our corecustomer base, which are the you
know, those big insurancecompanies and banks and, and of
course, the government entitiesthat regulate them.
Evan Kirstel (08:44):
This is all exciting. We're gonna dive very
deep, but I kind of want to goback a bit to the beginning.
Yeah. 23 and a half years is along time in tech. That's like
several lifetimes. It's severalyears did you you really set out
you graduated from Dartmouth,you went to a company remind me
of the name
Michael Beckley (09:02):
MicroStrategy Yes, that's company.
Evan Kirstel (09:04):
That's been my first strategy. Yes, it
Michael Beckley (09:06):
has become more notorious lately for Mike
sailor, the CEO is the Bitcoinking. He took all of
MicroStrategy is money they madefrom from software decades ago
and bought Bitcoin with it. Soand he's a very prominent
spokesperson for champion forcryptocurrency. So. So that's
where I started. That wasdecades ago. But Mike's his own
personality.
Evan Kirstel (09:24):
And so right away, you you had this vision of a new
way of developing software.
That's pretty early in thiswhole idea of a new paradigm for
development. Yeah,
Michael Beckley (09:35):
I mean, I don't want to suggest that 23 years
ago, we knew that we needed tobuild a data fabric and this low
code platform exactly the way itcame out. We didn't worry about
that. What we worried about washow do you build a platform for
innovation? Both as a culture asa business, how do you incent
your people to realize it'stheir job to think like
executives and be willing toburn down old business models
(09:56):
and old code to make way forsomething better? And then as it
technology that we were tryingto create. We wanted to empower
people to be creators, not justconsumers of data and systems.
Certainly it's been a greatevolution over the last 20 odd
years. But we have always stayedfocused on this simple premise
of how can you build a process,build an application. And if we
(10:17):
can make it twice as fast everytwo years for you to be able to
do that, then will unleash thecreative potential in everyone.
Evan Kirstel (10:24):
That's exciting.
So during that 23 years, thisconcept of robotic process
automation rpa, has really takenoff like wildfire, just like low
code. So are you playing in thatspace as well as the low code
space? Yeah, yeah.
Michael Beckley (10:41):
So we're driving, we believe in this
necessary convergence, we don'tthink that you can solve a
complete problem for ourcustomer, for example, with just
using bots, or just using lowcode. Bots are great when you
want to eliminate manual dataentry to a system you have
Dave Michels (10:56):
or write Christmas cards for all your customers.
Yes, exactly.
Michael Beckley (11:00):
But if you need it, you know, but a bot can only
work with a system you have.
That's why you need low code tocreate the systems you don't
have. If you want to create anentirely new service, a new
digital experience, bot isn'tgoing to help you do that. And
so with Appian, we provide acomplete picture for process
automation and low code. Andthat includes the bots and the
toolkit that allows you tocreate
Evan Kirstel (11:21):
this is fascinating, and I'm fascinated
just not by your approach.
You're a publicly tradedcompany, 2500 employees, but
this whole space is on fire. Andit's kind of confusing, because
there are hundreds of companiesnow with low code platforms,
toolkits, API's. How do you makesense of this whole space for us
here as neophytes in thismarket?
Michael Beckley (11:45):
Yeah. I mean, it's amazing how the space has
evolved. We, you know, we wentpublic five years ago in 2017,
our IPO, and we were the firstcompany to IPO as a local
platform. And since then, you asyou say, there have been
hundreds of entrants, bigcompanies, small companies,
startups, everyone trying tojump on the bandwagon. And
because it's so effective, andit's so easy to get into the way
we segment the market is wefocus on process automation,
(12:07):
typically for the missioncritical processes for missions
that matter, taking care of yourcustomers taking care of
regulatory compliance. And we dothat by providing the most
complete solution for end to endprocess automation. So there's a
lot of great tools out therethat are special purpose for
certain niches. But we thinkthat there's a necessary
convergence between, as you say,low code, and bots and AI and
(12:29):
people need to have many largeorganizations need to have
governance over all of thatchaos. And so they need a
complete answer, like Appian
Dave Michels (12:37):
locode, is talked about all the time now. Yeah.
What is your ecosystem? Nowthere are certain vendors that
you're often associated withcertain kinds of problems or
solutions you're oftenassociated with, how do you
segment that low codeopportunity to what you're
really best at?
Michael Beckley (12:52):
Yeah, so we're best at, I would say, customer
onboarding and regulatorycompliance for financial
services, insurance andgovernment agencies, around
other
Dave Michels (13:02):
certain vendors in your ecosystem that you've
always run into that you werealways kind of paired up with?
Or
Michael Beckley (13:07):
Yes, yes, we ended up always competing with a
small number of companies in thehigh end process automation
space, that would be a companylike pegah, out of Boston
Avenue, right in your backyardin Cambridge. And in the low
code space. We've seen entriesfrom ServiceNow, and Salesforce
as they have expanded beyond CRMand ITSM.
Dave Michels (13:26):
Yeah, okay. So I didn't mean to ask you to talk
about your competitors. I wastrying to figure out if there
are certain vendors that you'reoften working with, as part of
the solution is there? Oh, sure.
Of
Michael Beckley (13:34):
course. Yeah.
So Twilio, for example, is verycommonly a part of the solution,
or Avaya, or Genesis. So ifyou're thinking about in a
contact center perspective,there will be a contact center
solution typically and Appianwill be the case management and
process orchestration, that isproviding the intelligence into
those interactions. So we expandwhat you can do with your with
(13:56):
the way you engage with theirclients. Or on an operations
perspective, we're veryfrequently used in the middle
office and back office foroperations, where we will be
integrating with Oracle ERP, SAPERP systems, financial systems,
core banking systems. So there'sa host of players there. But if
you look at the Appian AppMarket, you'll see integrations
to hundreds of differentsystems, because across banking,
(14:17):
and insurance, is the winningcore insurance right? Company,
like guidewires is a strategicpartner of Allianz. We're not
trying to replace your coresystems. We're trying to allow
you to layer on an agility layerand be able to comply with new
regulations as they come out.
Dave Michels (14:34):
I'm trying to layer on an agility layer
myself.
Evan Kirstel (14:38):
Yes, failed.
Exactly. Let's shift a questionto the future because as they
mentioned, I'm obsessed withchat GPT and open AI at the
moment, it may or may not haveco written my last 12 blogs.
There's also an element of cocreation with Jack TPT. And that
is essentially no code or maybeyou call it low code. So what
say you about the future of AIgenerated code and all these
(15:01):
fascinating initiatives that arepopping up? Is that something
you're looking to embrace? Or isit too early or something else?
Michael Beckley (15:10):
Well, it's a bit of everything. I mean,
certainly too early and chat GPTis a really cool, fun thing that
we're all playing with it. Andwe've got integrations to
already that our engineers aredemonstrating. And yet, it's
still not available. And as acommercial product, and it's
still not secure. Everything yougive, it isn't got to be public
data. So it's not ready forprimetime. And it's not ready
for regulated business to beconducted with this chat tool.
(15:33):
But it does point to the future.
And a part of that future iscertainly going to be automating
more of the creative contentcreation that we have previously
assumed only humans can do. Andso as we think about an end end
process for creating somethinglike let's say, one of our
clients, s&p global, they're theones who are creating all those
reports about stocks, andupdating you on your
(15:54):
investments, and they have aninternational supply chain
creating it, well, you canimagine a future where AI
becomes more of a participant increating that content. And
humans are more editing andapproving it and validating it,
I definitely see chat GPT as apart of that low code future.
But I don't see it yet ready tocreate applications in a
meaningful way. And certainlynot meaningful applications. But
(16:15):
it's much more aboutsupplementing, how people can
create content of any kind.
Evan Kirstel (16:22):
Yeah, Dave, hopefully, you'll be using chat
GPT for to create yournewsletters, talking heads and
talking points in the future. Sotell us when it comes to the
buyer of Appian platforms? Is ittraditional it the CIO, kind of
type? Or is it business groupsand
Dave Michels (16:42):
sounds like the contact center? Sometimes?
Michael Beckley (16:44):
Yeah, there's there's a diverse set of buyers.
But typically, it's either an ITdecision where the CIO is trying
to create a capability andinnovation and agility
capability. And so they'remaking a platform decision to
build, you know, bring inProcess automation, bring in low
code, and say they have a wholebacklog of projects that they
want to address, or they'retrying to upgrade their ERP, for
(17:08):
example. And so they need a wayto customize their core systems
without having to write morecustom code because they're too
busy and distracted doing the,you know, the core systems with
their IT developers. And soAppian as a platform allows the
it buyer to do a lot more anddeliver a lot more for the
business quickly and collaboratewith the business. But equally
common is approach where we'regoing directly to the business
(17:30):
and solving a specific problemwith process automation. So it's
not uncommon that a regulatorwill say, alright, we find a
deficiency with the way you'rehandling your risk assessments
at the bank, or, you know, therewas a headline this morning, one
of the big crypto exchangesreached $100 million settlement
with the regulators and part ofthat settlement is they have to
actually implement newcompliance technology. And so
(17:54):
that's a common time we'll get aphone call or an email saying,
hey, Appian, can you help us outbecause they don't want to rip
and replace their core customersmanagement systems are their
contact center or their theircore banking, but their core
financial systems, but they canlayer on Appian. And we can work
with what they have and givethem an innovative new way to
not only onboard customersquickly, but do it in a
regulatory compliant way.
Dave Michels (18:13):
So he's brought up crypto twice now working with
MicroStrategy. And the exampleyou just gave, so why not just
do what Michael wouldMicroStrategy did and just put
all your money in? And
Michael Beckley (18:26):
look, I think Mike sailors is a really
creative guy. And I learned alot working with him 25 years
ago, but
Dave Michels (18:32):
I'm actually surprised how articulate he is
when I listen to an in depthinterview he did. And I thought,
well, I was just here, theselittle sound bites from him. You
don't know what's behind that.
But when I actually heard hislong form interview, I was
actually really impressed. Yeah,
Michael Beckley (18:44):
he's he's an incredibly brilliant articulate
guy. That being said, He'sgambling everything on one
thing, and I hope he's right forhis sake and his investors, but
as a huge gamble, and frankly,it has nothing to do with our
business. We are a softwarecompany, we empower people to
eliminate risk. And what I haveseen is that there is nothing
but trouble if you are a gamblerout there trying to forecast
(19:08):
which way the price of Bitcoinis gonna go. I mentioned crypto
only because it's an example ofwhat is topical and new in
regulatory issues challengingour clients in banking and
insurance, because customers areexpecting that they can use
whatever's new and innovative inpayment technology, and their
customers demand it and anystartups willing to offer it.
(19:28):
But that challenges thetraditional players who are my
clients, the NatWest banks ofthe world, the five of six top
UK banks all use Appian. Youknow, and the big US banks as
well. And so how do they complywith these new regulations? I
could have just as easilymentioned ESG, environmental
sustainability and governance.
Investors today want to do goodwith their money, that's a
customer demand. They want to beable to not just make money on
(19:49):
their investments to be securetheir own retirement, but make
sure that that money is going tocompanies that are helping the
world not hurting it, helpingthe environment.
Dave Michels (19:58):
So you know, We have customers so far already in
this conversation, and lot ofthem are European. So obviously
you go to market in Europe,you're over here, right? Where
are you based?
Michael Beckley (20:09):
Yeah, I'm based in our headquarters outside of
Washington, DC in McLean,Virginia. But Appian is a global
business. And we do significantbusiness in in Europe and in the
US, and then Australia andSingapore and Japan.
Dave Michels (20:20):
How do you go to market? Are you are you out
there personally, at every tradeshow, are you
Michael Beckley (20:27):
as the Chief Technology Officer, I spend a
lot of time on more digitalsales motions like this. But we
do. I was out in London forAppian Europe giving the keynote
address to our clients just lastmonth, and we do come and go
visit our different countryoffices around the world. But
mostly we you know, we also gothrough our partner ecosystem,
there are hundreds of largesystem system integrators and
(20:49):
specialists who deliver Appianfor our clients and deliver
their digital transformationprojects. So so when
Dave Michels (20:55):
they do that, is it still Appian? Or do they
rebranded? Or how do you? Yeah,use Appian? Without even
realizing it? Yes. So
Michael Beckley (21:03):
most of the time, the buyers know it's
Appian. Most of the time, it'sAccenture, or Deloitte or
Infosys, or some other globalsystems integrator that is
delivering the project. And thenthe actual users at a bank,
though, they'll see that it oran insurance company or a
government agency, they'lltypically see that it's the name
of whatever branding that thatinternal initiative has. So they
(21:24):
may call that software, whatevercool new acronym is for the
change project there. And sothat's the different way in
which they may interact with us.
There are companies buildingsolutions on Appian that are
that are white labeled, but thatis not how our core go to
market. Typically, you deal withus directly or you know, through
a systems integrator.
Evan Kirstel (21:42):
You mentioned government a couple of times,
yes, I assume that could bestakeout local, federal
government, governmentsoverseas. I guess my big
question is, can you transformthe IRS to get out of closing
business practices or Nocomment?
Michael Beckley (21:57):
No, absolutely.
We would love to work with theIRS, we'd be happy to help them
transform their processes.
Dave Michels (22:02):
I'm not sure if sailor likes us would agree with
you on that.
Michael Beckley (22:05):
Yeah, he's Yeah, he has his own tax issues.
But we work a lot with the USfederal government, but we work
with over 200 different publicsector agencies around the
world. So the Texas Departmentpublic safety, they've
transformed the way they dotheir procurement with APA. And
they needed a custom way ofwriting contracts that would fit
with their own rules, and yetallow them to innovate and go
fast. And in three months, theywere able to implement an
(22:27):
entirely new contract writingsystem in Appian. And they've
already run $2.6 billion worthof contracts through it. So
that's a perfect example ofwhere you don't find a good off
the shelf contract writingsoftware solution from Microsoft
or Oracle or, you know, oranyone else. And yet, you know,
you've got unique rules, complexrules, it's big dollar figures,
you've got to have auditability,governance control, and yet
(22:49):
flexibility because it's allabout the mission, you've got to
be able to get the contractsexecuted, so people can innovate
and be empowered, and not bestuck in the old bureaucracy and
paperwork in the past. And soyou know, the speed and agility
of a process automationplatform, like Appian is
definitely great fortransforming government and
helping government agenciesimplement case management
(23:09):
systems as well, just like yourtypical audience member is
working in a contact center andfor a large company. The
government has many huge callcenters themselves trying to
help citizens get somethingdone.
Evan Kirstel (23:22):
Yeah, don't tell Dave about not living in the
past. He really enjoyed theliving in the past part. But
another industry I'm interestedin I suspect you are as well as
healthcare. Health IT there'sthe big hims event. I'll be
coming up in April, Chicago, Iimagine you have a lot of
healthcare clients, given theneeds there. What are you seeing
there?
Michael Beckley (23:42):
Yeah, we do particularly in life sciences
and health insurance. What we'reseeing is always a need from the
from the pandemic to improve thespeed and accuracy of clinical
trials, and to bring new drugsand therapies and devices to
market. We work with all mannerof different medical device
manufacturers and pharmaceuticalcompanies. And the clinical
(24:02):
research outsourcers you knowthat whole life sciences
business has transformed andgone global itself. And that
actually creates incrediblechallenges. Because if you want
to even create a new drug andtest it, well, you're working
with laboratories around theworld, and regulators around the
world. And so how do you bringtogether all the different
paperwork requirements, you haveto initiate a new clinical trial
(24:24):
Appian, automates all that foryou and gives you that
visibility so that you can anyremember, the amount of time a
drug spends on market is the wayyou can pay back that
multibillion dollar investmentit takes to bring it to market.
And so the faster you can bringit to market because your patent
starts long before the drugactually is available to safely
sell through your distribution.
So by shortening that cycle, wecan actually help companies get
(24:46):
much better return on theirinvestment but also bring those
therapies to market helppatients faster. And then that
leaves more r&d money to helpwith the next by lowering the
barrier to entry for initiatinga new drug trial. That means we
can More things and help morepeople, vaccines, obviously top
of mind, the Food and DrugAdministration in the US is
actually standardized on Appianfor their low code platform. So
(25:08):
we're trying to help them betterinspect facilities around the
world who are making these drugsand therapies and vaccines for
us, and keeping them safe. Soit's a tremendous area of
innovation. But again, anythingyou do is so constrained by the
need for and good need forregulatory compliance.
Everything you're doing affectspeople's lives. So we have to
(25:28):
have validation that it'scorrect. And it's going to
satisfy the needs of all thesedifferent stakeholders. That's
our goal of happiness to allowyou to be creative and be
empowered. And let us automateall that boring paperwork.
Dave Michels (25:42):
So if you're heavily involved in healthcare,
there's something like thepandemic help your business?
Michael Beckley (25:50):
It did, it really did. Strangely enough, we
saw explosive growth in ourbusiness because of the added
demand for automation and theadded interest in demand for
moving faster.
Dave Michels (26:00):
Was that primarily from the healthcare or was it
more from contact center? Orwhat caused your business to
benefit from the pandemic? Yeah,
Michael Beckley (26:06):
well, part of it was the whole need for
financial services and insuranceto go digital. You know, the
idea of going in person to dothings was immediately
invalidated by the pandemic. Andso that whole digitization
demand for Process Automationwas a huge driver in our core
business, but also in anybusiness. And then the life
sciences firms and thegovernment agencies were
(26:27):
similar. And like I said, thatwork at the FDA, for example,
all that demand and drivinginterest and focus comes from
the, you know, the pandemic forpeople to see how important that
work is. And it's important tobe improved and overhauled. By
the same token, we're talkingabout a recessionary economy
now. And in a recession, well,you have more scrutiny from the
regulators, because there's morerisk in the economic
(26:48):
environment, and they need tomake sure that those banks are
solvent, and that they're notmaking risky loans. And so, at
the same time, customers are,like I said, demanding new
technology, and they want speed,your banking, customer,
insurance, customer, they wanteverything to be digital, they
want it all to be on theirphone, they want it all to be
now and they want to pay for itand Bitcoin, apparently. So it's
like, how do you meet the needsfor these new digital
(27:10):
experiences, but do it in aregulatory compliant way? So
you're not exposing yourinstitution to undue risk? And
so that's, again, driving moreinterest for us. It's not
uniformly good. I mean, badtimes or bad times? If, but
there is a silver lining in allof it, especially for a firm
like ours.
Evan Kirstel (27:25):
Yeah, we need we need more silver linings. You
know, a lot of big tech and andstartups are downsizing. We see
the big consolidating Salesforceannouncement riff that was quite
a surprise to me. What's yourjust general outlook on the
market? Are you like Dave hashalf glass empty? Or are you
more half glass full kind of guythis year?
Michael Beckley (27:46):
I'm actually incredibly optimistic on this
year. You know, I think that, ofcourse, companies that
dramatically overexpanded haveto pull back and companies that
are very large tended to expandeven more. And so yeah, it's I
don't think it's I wasn'tsurprised to see Salesforce have
to pull back Amazon has pulledback even more. This is a moment
where the very largest companiestheir only lever, in overall
(28:09):
flat growth is to cut costs. Acompany like ours, well, we're a
big company, you know, 2420 2500people, we're not so big that
the overall economy is a is amajor factor. For us. It's, it's
much more about what ourcustomers need. And right now,
thankfully, because we'veinvested for years in building
this data fabric that allows youto innovate without having to
(28:30):
rip and replace things, allowsyou to consolidate systems
allows you to be more efficientwith our process automation.
We've anticipated that thiswould be great technology and
good times, but it's necessarytechnology and bad times.
Evan Kirstel (28:41):
Fantastic.
Dave Michels (28:42):
You said 23 years you've been in businesses.
That's right. Yeah.
Michael Beckley (28:45):
1999 We started so that's
Dave Michels (28:46):
a lot of cycles.
You've seen a lot of a lot ofdifferent AI cycles, a lot of
different hype cycles.
somebody's heart transplantcycles is that
Michael Beckley (28:54):
that's only I'm only on my second hearts this my
I've had one heart transplant.
Evan Kirstel (28:58):
Alright, so we kind of glossed over that. So
I've actually never, this was inyour bio. So I don't think we're
asking anything. No, no order.
No HIPAA violations here. I'venever never talked about with
someone who had a hearttransplant. Explain that
process, if you would, becauseit's extraordinary.
Michael Beckley (29:15):
Yeah, yeah.
It's pretty unusual. It's aboutyou know, there aren't too many
of us out there. Okay. I had aheart transplant. 12 years ago,
I had a genetic heart condition.
I inherited a defective heart,if you will. And so I always
knew that, you know, this wouldbe either I got a new heart or
it would be game over. So mygrandfather, he died at age 36.
(29:37):
And I got my heart transplantwhen I was 36. Interesting thing
about that is he actually wasnot able to go off to fight in
World War Two like his brothersdid, because he was ineligible
for the draft due to his heartcondition in World War Two. So
he went to work with the army onone of the first computers on
their electronic accountingmachine, they call them back
(29:57):
then, you know, punchcardcomputers and so He passed on
that interest in technology tohis daughter, my mother. And
that stayed with her long afterhe was gone. And so she sent me
and my brother to programmingcamp when we were kids, were it
not for this heart condition, Iprobably wouldn't have been
coding in basic when I was sixyears old. And so that's that's,
Evan Kirstel (30:17):
you know, whose heart you received? Is that part
of the process of learning?
Michael Beckley (30:21):
Yeah, so it's an anonymous process. But as a
as a recipient, you have theopportunity to send a letter to
the donor family. And in mycase, they also wanted to meet
me. So that matching happensvoluntarily on both sides, you
know, both the the family has towant to meet you, and you have
to want to meet them. And soI've had the privilege to meet
my donor family, there areincredible people. And my donor,
(30:44):
his name was is Travis Burch.
And he was a 19 year old boy whohad just graduated from high
school and his whole future infront of him, he had just
enlisted in the Navy, wanted tosee the world. And yet he had
the thought and the selflessnessto decide that he was gonna be
an organ donor. And so he, youknow, he told his mother that if
anything happened to him, atleast he was going to save a
bunch of people anyway. Andunfortunately, that's what
happened. It's just so humbling.
(31:07):
When you when you meet peoplelike this, their families,
obviously make them that way.
And so it's a real privilege.
It's like having another family.
Evan Kirstel (31:14):
Yeah, it's amazing. I'm getting chills just
hearing your story. Thanks somuch. I often say to Dave
Michaels get a hawk have a heartbut really doesn't listen. Well.
Do you still code Do you stillYeah, all those years ago basic
I coded in basic Of course,that's I still level of my
knowledge. But do you get thetime to write was it on a trs
(31:35):
80? It was on a crash ad? Yeah.
Michael Beckley (31:37):
Yeah. So I learned to code on Apple twos, I
had the distinct joy of havingSteve Wozniak be our keynote
speaker at an ambient event afew years back, and I'll tell a
quick story about Steve. He's aprankster. He's always been a
prankster. And so the way he gotat me was, I had given him and
his team, all of the questions Iwas going to ask him on stage
(31:57):
ahead of time. And I'd put awhole lot into this because of
course, he's inspiration of mineis, you know, a great innovator
and an entrepreneur. And, and soI found questions that no one
had asked him in public stagesbefore, right. And so he goes up
and gives a little speech beforeand right before he goes
onstage, he says to me, I reallyenjoyed the questions you came
up with, they were, you know,creative and different. You
(32:17):
know, this is really great. Andwe're gonna have a great
interview. And he goes up onstage and proceeds to change his
routine speech and answer eightof the 10 questions that I had
planned to write and ask him.
And then he turns and says, No,come on, on stage, Mike.
Evan Kirstel (32:37):
That's thinking quick on your feet. That sounds
like a Steve Jobs move, not awise move that something was or
do you but he did, he would havedone
Michael Beckley (32:45):
was did it with love. Okay, he did. So, and he
gave me a big hug afterwards,always really, you know, sweet
guy. And I don't mean to busthim on that. I just think that
it was. He's someone who trulyloves technology. And do I still
code, I do it for fun. I've gothundreds of fantastic engineers,
computer scientists, expertshere who are delivering high
quality code. And that allows anamateur like me to focus on
(33:08):
having fun with code and
Dave Michels (33:11):
DC, are they all over the world,
Michael Beckley (33:13):
most of them are here in our headquarters in
Washington, DC, which is anotherunusual and different thing
about Appian. But we have grownby a couple of recent
acquisitions, I added a datascience team in Berlin, we are
incredibly excited to work withthem and their process mining
experts, German process expertsmakes a lot of sense. And so we
had that opportunity to acquirethis great group of data
(33:33):
scientists, you know, to get 50of them all at once. You know,
it's a rare thing. So we'reexcited to have them as part of
the team. And before that, acouple of years ago, we we also
found a fantastic team ofrobotic process automation
experts in Spain. And so we havea development center in severe
and we have a development centerin Berlin. And this year, I know
after 23 years, we just openedour first Dev Center in India.
(33:54):
And so we're growing. We've beenthere. I have not been there
now. And you know, I would loveto go see it.
Dave Michels (34:00):
Yeah, I think I think you need to have an idol
accompany you on that.
Evan Kirstel (34:04):
Speaking of trips, any any trips planned, is there
an Appian world coming up orsome other cool event that
you're heading out to the nextmonth or two or three? Well,
Michael Beckley (34:13):
so Appian Europe just happened in London,
Appian. world this year will beat the end of April, beginning
of May, I think and that will bein San Diego. This
Evan Kirstel (34:21):
alright, I can use a trip to San Diego. What do you
think they?
Dave Michels (34:24):
Yeah, I think I think
Michael Beckley (34:26):
I think we'd love to have you out in San
Diego. It's a fantastic venue agreat place to come learn a lot
more about what our customersare doing with process
automation and low code. Yeah.
Well, thanks
Evan Kirstel (34:36):
so much.
Dave Michels (34:37):
That's in Diego, of course, is a big naval town.
Michael Beckley (34:40):
It is. Yeah. I mean, AFCEA. West will be coming
up in February. And I'm surewe'll be exhibiting there.
Evan Kirstel (34:45):
Great. Awesome.
Awesome. Well, thanks so muchfor joining us and educating us
and Dave in particular onautomating no code and having a
heart and all that good stuff.
Was really actually This isgreat conversations one of my
favorite over the last fewmonths. So thanks so much
Michael for joining us. Andwe'll be watching all things
(35:07):
IBM. It's fascinating journey.
Michael Beckley (35:09):
Thanks for the invite Evan and Dave, look
forward to it. Thank you. Allright.
Dave Michels (35:15):
Well, that was one of our first interviews I think
that really had some heart
Evan Kirstel (35:18):
to that was quite upon that was a good one, or a
bad one depending on yourperspective. But yeah, a company
that you know many of us haven'theard of is killing it. Again,
no pun intended. When it comesto this whole space and may
shine the light on opportunitiesin the UCAS and telco and
communication space you know,people need more tools.
Dave Michels (35:39):
I think that's really important because so much
of the UCAS technology and theCTSA nology is really becoming
more mature and the opportunityis more around these adjacencies
and bringing it bringing allthese pieces together. So I
thought Michael really had somegreat insights on that low code
no code man is the future
Evan Kirstel (35:56):
well not for us we're too old to code in any
language but definitely for manyout there it is indeed the
future and we'll see you nextepisode
Unknown (36:06):
you can make a conversation
them I gotta get out of thephone. Don't don't read your
(36:29):
phone. No man knows me.
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