April 6, 2025 • 42 mins
Steve Lupton, Principal at Repton Abu Dhabi, shares his journey from teaching in Australia and challenging schools in London to leadership roles in the UAE, highlighting the unpredictable yet rewarding nature of school leadership.
• Growing up in rural Australia with a multicultural background shaped Steve's perspective on diversity and inclusion
• Reconnecting with his father at age 33 after years of separation created a profound "sliding doors" moment in his life
• Career progression from classroom teacher to principal happened through seizing opportunities and being prepared for unexpected advancement
• Building authentic relationships is fundamental to successful leadership and creating a positive school culture
• The challenge of retaining talented teachers in classrooms when career progression typically means moving away from teaching
• Self-care and the ability to compartmentalize emotions are essential skills for maintaining leadership longevity and effectiveness
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
You are listening to the Teach Middle East podcast
connecting, developing andempowering educators.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of
the Teach Middle East podcastwith me, lisa Grace.
Today we're going behind theprincipal's desk again, but this
time not very far from home.
We're in Abu Dhabi and we'regoing behind the principal's
desk at Repton, abu Dhabi, withSteve Lupton.
Steve, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Thanks, lisa.
It's lovely to be here andwelcome behind my desk On
Sundays.
I'm sure principals would loveto swap seats.
So welcome behind my principalOn Sundays.
I'm sure principals would loveto swap seats.
So welcome behind myprincipal's desk today.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Thank you so much.
I think sometimes with the jobof a principal, people often
think it's one thing when it'sanother.
I often tell people when I wasa principal, people thought I
sat behind my desk and gaveorders when really I was
rerouting buses and cleaning uppaper that I've seen thrown on
(01:10):
the floor and doing all sorts ofthings.
What are some of the unusualthings you have to do in that
role that people don't eventhink about?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Oh, it is a variety, isn't it?
It's such a variety of aspectsof job that you have day to day
a variety of aspects of job thatyou have day to day yes,
cleaning up, picking up rubbish.
I'll give you a perfect examplethis morning.
I was at the front door thismorning and one of the boys two
brothers had got a taxi toschool and one was on his phone
(01:39):
to his mom at reception becausetheir Apple Pay wouldn't open on
their phone so they couldn'tpay the taxi.
So I went out to the car parkand paid their taxi fare this
morning.
So it's such a diverse array oftasks throughout your day.
But lovely, I really absolutelylove the job, the variety of it
.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah, I think we need to always save space for that.
You know that unpredictabilityof the role of principal,
because you could walk in andyou know what happened once in
my in my time in Al Ain at myschool, we had heavy rainfall
and we didn't know because thiswas a brand new addict school,
(02:21):
massive building, boys and girls, and it was over a thousand
students and we were in thecanteen.
We were all kind of there andthe rain was falling.
You know the kids kind of gocrazy when it's raining.
Guess what happened A part ofthe roof caved in while we were
in there and water flooded inthe canteen.
(02:41):
You can't make the script up upat all.
Tell me, before your principalrole, what were you doing?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
take me back to early days because I like to go back,
back, back back back back toearly days, um, back back back
to, I guess, my childhood is.
Uh, quite I guess it's aninteresting childhood from my
experience.
I I grew up in Australia.
I'm from Australia originally.
I've spent sort of six years inthe UK and now about eight
(03:10):
years in the UAE.
But I grew up born to my motherwho emigrated, or her
grandparents emigrated, fromHolland, the Netherlands, after
World War II in about 1950.
And my father is Chinese, orfrom Hong Kong, and he was
(03:31):
emigrated from Hong Kong toAustralia.
So I've grown up, this mixedrace boy in country, new South
Wales, surrounded by dairy farms.
So that was quite aninteresting childhood growing up
and I guess some of the thingsthat have had a real impact on
me growing up and the person,the leader I've become is my
(03:52):
parents split up when I was 18months of age, so I was raised
as an only child by my motherfor many, many years.
It wasn't until the age of 33that I came back into contact
with my father actually.
So it's a bit of a it's a longstory but it's a bit of a long
lost family type of episode.
(04:12):
But those type of moments andthose type of experiences really
impact you, and it's a slidingdoors type of moment that's
impacted me in a real positiveway, I think.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
What's your relationship like now with your
father?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
I have a fantastic relationship with my father.
Yeah, I'd been looking for himfor quite a long time for about
eight years and my wife is fromthe UK, so we'd travel sort of
between Australia and the UKquite often and we'd stopped in
Hong Kong and I knew he was fromHong Kong and we stopped in
Hong Kong on one of the journeysand I was thinking, imagine if
(04:51):
my dad had walked past or satdown next to me.
So that sort of got me thinkingI should be trying to find him.
And we spent about eight yearstrying to find him and couldn't
find him.
And then one day my grandfatheron my mom's side, who's got a
very recognizable Dutch name,van Denderen was S and M, so
they're easy to find in thephone book.
This was before social mediaand my grandfather had rang me
(05:15):
and he said I was at work at thetime.
He said can you sit down?
I've got something to tell you.
And I genuinely thought, lisa,that he was going to tell me
that he'd won the lottery.
My grandfather always playedthe lottery every week and I
thought he was going to tell mehe'd won the lottery.
But he said I found your dad.
He's just rang me.
Here's his number.
He wants you to give him a call.
So I rang him and by chance helived like 12 kilometers from
(05:41):
where I was in Sydney, and hesaid to me happy birthday, it
was my 33rd birthday.
He said happy birthday, whatare you doing tonight for your
birthday?
And we were going to arestaurant just up the road and
he said do you mind if I comeand join you for dinner?
And I was like, yeah, of course.
So I really should have sort ofsaid can you wear a red jumper
(06:04):
or something?
So I know who it is when youwalk in the restaurant.
So my wife, alex, and I weresitting in the restaurant
waiting to see who comes throughthe door and yeah, it was
immediately recognizable to mewhen he walked through the door
that that he was my dad.
So yeah, it was a.
It was a lovely moment.
I then found out that I havestep sisters or half-sisters two
(06:27):
half-sisters and a half-brotheron my dad's side.
We're here being married, soChristmas has become a lot more
expensive at that point.
But yeah, it was lovely and Ithink we've you know, it's sort
of 12 years ago now and we'vegot a really strong connection.
I'm really strongly connectedto that side of my family.
It's been a really interestingprocess of understanding that
(06:51):
cultural aspect of my family,that Asian side of my family.
So that's been quite aninteresting process.
Only two years after I sort ofreconnected with my dad is when
we had our eldest boy, and mydad and my oldest son, harvey,
have got this really reallyclose connection and I think
it's probably part of my dad'sway of sort of making sure he's
(07:15):
giving back of maybe what he'smissed out giving to me.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, that's a really , really beautiful story.
It's interesting, you know,when you think about family and
all the dynamics that go on.
We all have such rich historythat sometimes when you meet
people you can never tell Like,that story you just told me is
not one that I would haveimagined.
Do you know what I mean?
And so these conversations areso important.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think growing up yeah,absolutely, I think growing up I
probably tried to close thatpart of my heritage and culture
off, because I grew up as asingle child without a father.
I was in a country, a very sortof Caucasian low socioeconomic
area of country, new South Walesso I probably tried to shut
(08:01):
that part of me off.
But what I've realized it'sreconnecting with my father at
that point and having thisbeautiful family, diverse family
, has definitely filled a holein my heart that I probably
didn't realize was there.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, and provided your kids with the grandfather
figure that we all want to giveour kids.
I mean it's beautiful.
Because I can't give my kidsthat?
Because my dad died when I was19 years old and he was the best
dad and would have been thebest grandfather.
But you know, that's how thedice rolled and I lost him when
(08:42):
I was before I even thought ofhaving kids.
I was just midway throughuniversity when he passed.
So you spent time in the UK.
What made you move fromAustralia to the UK?
Speaker 3 (08:59):
At the time and I moved to the UK when it was
around 2000, early 2000s, so I'dfinished university.
Prior to that I had sport.
Football particularly, had beenmy one sort of passion growing
up as a child and I wasfortunate that I was relatively
good at it.
I didn't have any otherpassions.
(09:21):
I don't think I was really.
I grew up in a very lowsocioeconomic area and I was
probably at the low end of thelow socioeconomic sort of
spectrum of kids there.
So I don't think I was reallyexposed to anything else but
football.
So that was sort of my onlyvision and dream of how I could
get out of this sort ofpredicament, if you like I was
(09:43):
in.
How I could get out of thissort of predicament, if you like
I was in.
So I was fortunate enough to begiven a full scholarship at the
Australian Institute of Sport.
So I left home at the age of 16and I moved down to the
Australian Institute of Sport.
It was in Canberra.
It was set up for I think itwas after sort of a failed
Olympics Australia.
(10:03):
It didn't win any gold medalsin the 1978 Olympics or
something along those lines.
So the government set this up.
Obviously, australia being verycompetitive.
We can't have an Olympics wherewe don't win gold medals.
So they set up the AustralianInstitute of Sport for all the
Olympic sports and they hadscholarships for all the top
young athletes over the country.
(10:24):
So it was a live-in sort ofplace.
We trained full-time, it wasvery high-performance focused
and you went to school downthere.
So I had that lovely opportunityto be able to do that, which
really opened my eyes, and partof that we did a six-week trip
to South America.
So we traveled and we went andplayed against teams in
(10:45):
Argentina and Brazil.
So that really opened my eyesup to traveling.
So after that had finished andI completed university, I really
just wanted to go and traveland at the time it was very,
very common for Australians, andAustralian teachers in
particular, to go over to the UKon a working holiday visa.
We could stay over there on auk on a working holiday visa.
(11:08):
We could stay over there on atwo year working holiday visa
and work and then travel.
So that's what took me to tolondon.
Originally I had six years.
I loved the six years that Ihad in london where?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
where were you in london, my city?
Speaker 3 (11:21):
your city my city well, I I ended up in a in a
school called raven's park prepschool, which is uh sort of
between chiswick and hammersmith, but prior to that I worked in
a number of places worked andlived in sydenham, uh, tufnell
park, but uh, I think probablymost memorable the schools I
(11:45):
worked at.
I worked in a school in Brixtonfor about six months and that
was a great education inbehavior management and, yeah,
really challenging school, butsome fantastic people, some
fantastic kids.
When you really win theirrespect, you win their hearts.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
What did you teach?
Speaker 3 (12:11):
I did a double degree , so I've got a primary school
teaching degree and a physicaleducation degree, so I've
doubled in a bit of both.
When I was in London primaryschool I also was a head of PE
and now principal across twocampuses.
Of000 plus students fromnursery through to year 13.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yeah, we're going to get to that.
We're going to get to that.
But I wanted to go back to theAustralian Olympics.
Did you see the Australianbreakdancing at the Sears
Olympics?
You have to tell me what youthought about that.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Yes, yes, unfortunately I did.
Unfortunately I did.
From what I can see is thatthey've taken breakdancing out
of the next Olympics and I thinkeveryone in Australia is quite
happy about that.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Listen, I saw that.
I think that meme made my dayfor several days.
I cracked up so much I thoughtyou know what there has to be
humour.
I'm sure that's not whatAustralia was going for, but man
, they nailed humour there forsure.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
I'm not sure what she was going for, but yeah, she
certainly made a mark.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
She certainly did so.
Your life in England led you toAbu Dhabi, or did you go
somewhere else before you gothere?
Speaker 3 (13:25):
No, I returned to Australia.
I returned to Australia foraround 10 years.
So, quite nicely, the academicyear obviously in the UK
finishes in July and theAustralian academic year is
based on the calendar year, soit doesn't start until January,
february.
So I had a sort of a six monthbreak where I went and traveled.
(13:47):
I went and traveled throughSouth America for six months and
I think that is a huge part ofwho I am as well and who I've
become is because of the amountof traveling that I've done and
the experiences that I've hadfrom traveling and the lessons
that I've learned from traveling.
It certainly has played a parton how I lead and how I connect
with people.
(14:08):
But I went back to Australia.
I was very fortunate to be givena role at Sydney Grammar School
in Sydney, which is one ofAustralia's longest established
schools in Australia privateschools.
It's an academically selectiveschool, some very bright boys.
It's a boys' school, verybright boys along sort of alumni
(14:31):
of very important people inAustralian history.
So, as an example, sir EdmundBarton, who was Australia's
first prime minister, was fromSydney Grammar School.
So in that way there's somealignment to where I am now at
Repton, who has equally a verylong history and a very
(14:53):
impressive list of alumni.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, where was your favorite place to travel?
In South America.
I love that part of the worldas well.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
It's so diverse.
I actually really love Bolivia.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Really no, I haven't been to Bolivia.
Have you traveled through CostaRica and Panama?
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I have been not through Panama, but I have been
through Costa Rica, el Salvador,honduras, all the way up
through Mexico.
I got caught in a hurricane inMexico, in southern Mexico, that
had to be locked down into ahotel for about four days, so
that was quite an interestingexperience.
But I do love that sort ofCentral America, south America.
(15:32):
I've been trying to learnSpanish for a number of years
and spent some time in Cuenca inEcuador trying to learn Spanish
, so that was quite a niceexperience.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah, I challenge you to your next set of adventure
to do the Caribbean, yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
I have touched on the Bahamas, but I need to explore.
I'd love to go to Jamaica,actually.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Jamaica, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Barbados, St
Lucia, Antigua and, if you canget down to St Vincent and the
Grenadines.
You, oh my God, you probablywon't come back.
You will love it that much.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Well, I know all these places by name because
growing up in Australia, we usedto have this huge cricket
rivalry with West Indies at thetime.
So Kirtley, ambrose, these typeof guys and that was the era,
and there were amazing athletesas well in the West Indies.
But it's not a simple flightfrom here, is it?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
No, I mean, I haven't been in a few years,
unfortunately, but when you dogo, you can go through.
I normally either go throughLondon, so from here to London
and then from London you can getnonstop to Barbados or nonstop
to Montego Bay, jamaica, or evennonstop to Cuba, or you can fly
from here to the United Statesand then fly down from the
(16:57):
United States to the Caribbean.
But it's not as complicated asit might sound, it's just long.
The flight is long but it'svery easy.
It's not a hard flight becauseit's just one connection.
So from here to either of thoseand then another flight down to
the Caribbean.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
It's just the cost.
Now I've got two kids, so it'sfour flights here to either of
those and then another flightdown to the Caribbean.
It's just the cost.
Now I've got two kids, so it'sfour flights, and now we've got
a dog as well, so I've got totry and work out what I do with
my dog over the summer holidays.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Oh yeah, oh the dog.
Yeah, you did mention that whenwe met the other day.
I have this dog now.
Yeah, that's a responsibility.
I don't know how to help youwith that.
So what year did you come outhere to Abu Dhabi?
Speaker 3 (17:37):
2017.
So when Repton Fry Campus thesenior school campus opened in
September 2017 is when I arrived.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
What led you to Abu Dhabi?
Why the UAE?
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Yeah, good question.
I never saw myself working inthe UAE actually, and I come
through here.
A former colleague friend ofmine, robert Relton, who I
worked with, who was theheadmaster of Ravenscourt Park
in London, and I worked with himfor four or five years in
London and he was, in terms ofleadership and impact on me as a
(18:17):
role model for a leader.
He certainly left that reallypositive impact of a leader on
me.
He ended up coming to the UAEand was the founding principal
of Repton, so he opened Reptonin Abu Dhabi in 2013.
When it first opened and we hadflown, as I said, we were sort
(18:41):
of going between Sydney and theUK because my wife was in the UK
, so we stopped through here.
It was one December on the wayfrom Sydney to Manchester and we
had our eldest boy at the time,who was about eight months old,
and I remember thinking at thetime it was really, really hot
in December and now in DecemberI've got like hoodies on and
(19:05):
it's freezing.
So you become acclimatized veryquickly, don't you?
But we had a lovely few dayshere in Abu Dhabi and Rob showed
us around, but I never at thatpoint thought that we would live
here at any stage and then, outof the blue, one day he rang me
up and an opportunity had comeup to come and work here.
I'd been at Sydney GrammarSchool for nearly nine years
(19:28):
going on 10 years at this pointand Sydney Grammar School is a
place where not many people left, if you know what I mean.
So they paid very well.
It was an excellent school, sothere wasn't much career
development or progressionhappening.
I just recently finished mymaster's in educational
(19:49):
leadership and I was ready to dosomething else and we'd always
with my wife's family in the UK.
We'd always sort of talk aboutliving overseas again, but we
weren't really sure where.
So I ended up having aninterview with Rob and
discussions, and I didn't tellmy wife any of this at this
point.
So she was quite shocked when Isaid to her by the way, I've
(20:11):
got a job offer in Abu Dhabi and, to be fair to her, she took it
quite gracefully.
We just had our second child atthat point, so he was certainly
about three months at the timewhen we had this discussion.
But yeah, we got to a pointwhere Sydney is very expensive
as well.
(20:31):
So we thought we'd try AbuDhabi and eight years later
we're still here.
We absolutely love life livinghere.
Our boys have grown up from you, know where they are three
years and eight months when wearrived, to now 10 and eight
years of age, and we feel very,very fortunate to be able to
(20:54):
live in such a beautiful country.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
So that's actually quite typical of people who come
to the UAE.
For people listening to thepodcast, who probably are maybe
just starting their journey,thinking I'll be going out there
for a year or two.
Let me be the one to warn youthat you probably will be here
for eight, nine or, like me, 14years and counting, without any
(21:22):
plans of going anywhere.
So tell me about your careerprogression at Repton, because
when I met you, you were, Ithink, vice principal at the
time.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Yes, yes, I feel like I've played.
To give it a metaphor, I feellike I've played every position
on the pitch at Repton so far.
So when I first arrived in 2017, I came as a teacher, so I was
teaching a year five class.
It was when we'd first openedFrye Campus.
We had September 2017 and wehad 160 students on Frye campus
(21:57):
from year three through to yearsix, so we had two year five
classes.
I was teaching a year fiveclasses with a colleague of mine
, tanvir Jalani, who still workshere now, and I had that lovely
opportunity of sort of settlingstudents into a new campus.
It was quite an exciting time.
I arrived and we did inset atthe Rose campus, which is the
(22:21):
earliest campus which wasalready open down at the bottom
of Ream Island.
We did inset down there becausethe Frye campus wasn't open yet
and hadn't had a approval ADECapproval to open open yet and
hadn't had a approval ad hocapproval to open.
So, like things over here isquite last minute.
We got ad hoc approval to openthe campus two days before
students were supposed to arrivebefore the start of the
(22:43):
academic year.
So everyone came in over thosetwo days, 48 hours.
No one really slept.
Everyone was hands to the tillum, trying to turn what was
essentially a building site intoa school to welcome new
students, and we managed to dothat, and I think that's why
(23:03):
we've got so many staff with theloyalty and buy-in that we've
got.
We literally have had blood,sweat and tears being spilled in
getting this campus to thisschool, to where it is, and I've
still got some fantasticcolleagues, a lot of fantastic
colleagues who who with werewith me at that point in time,
who who still remain at theschool and so how did?
(23:24):
your career progress yeah, fromthere I I was, I had year five.
For that year, I think I sortof picked up or I was promoted
into an assistant head rolewithin sort of the first six
months and I took on somefurther responsibility and some
responsibility, professionaldevelopment, and then, I seem to
(23:44):
, as the school grew quitequickly.
Year on year the schoolexpanded and grew quite rapidly.
I then was promoted into adeputy head of academic role.
I then was promoted into adeputy head of academic role
which then ended up being a viceprincipal role overseeing both
campuses, and this was workingwith Gillian Hammond, who's the
principal at Repton Dubai.
(24:04):
So I was working closely withher underneath her leadership.
Yeah, gillian went to ReptonAl-Basha and ultimately Repton
Dubai, which gave me theopportunity to sort of become
the principal, interim principaland now the full-time principal
, which I've been for the lastthree years.
So it's interesting howopportunities and sliding doors
(24:27):
sort of happen here and I guessfrom anyone looking from an
aspirational leadershipperspective, I don't think I
could have ever sort of coursedthe map the way things have
happened, and I think my sort ofwords of wisdom in that is
you've just got to be trying toensure that you are ready when
(24:50):
opportunities rise.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah, I was going to actually ask you as well for new
teachers coming out here whoare worried about their career
progressions what steps can theytake to make sure that they're
in the right place at the righttime for these opportunities?
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Yeah, it's difficult, isn't it?
It depends on the school thatyou're joining.
But I've found over here andit's still the same.
Here we have a very high staffretention rate.
But there are alwaysopportunities that arise to
allow people to move intoleadership roles.
But I think what can they do?
You don't have to have a titleto be a leader.
(25:31):
So, developing those leadershiptraits and developing those
leadership experiences as muchas you can, so that you are
ready to take on when you aregiven that opportunity to take
on those leadership experiences.
I was fortunate to come fromsort of a PE sporting background
where you traditionally and myhead director of sport today has
(25:53):
just had 800 students out forthe single school sports day.
Organizing a whole school eventlike that, the logistics of it,
the health and safety of it, itgives you such great experience
for what's to come in terms ofleadership.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah, what advice would you give to school leaders
who are looking not schoolleaders or teachers who are
looking to get into schoolleadership, but they are very
hesitant to take on these roles.
What advice would you give themto kind of push them into, you
know, stepping up?
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yeah, I think it's important to note two things,
isn't it?
Career progression doesn'tnecessarily mean you have to go
upwards in an upward trajectory,because there are a lot of
fantastic teachers out there andcareer progression for them
they may not want theresponsibility of leadership.
(26:47):
Career progression for themmight be more about breadth
rather than going an upwardtrajectory.
So I think that's veryimportant For those that are
looking to step up trajectory.
So I think that's veryimportant For those that are
looking to step up intoleadership.
I think you've got to be reallyclear about why you want to be
a leader, and I think, probablymore than anything that I've
learned on my journey is thatyou need to be really
(27:10):
understanding of who you are asa person and what your values
and morals are, because whenyou're placed in a position of
leadership, particularly inquite a diverse environment that
we live in, people will try andpush you or sway you in terms
of your values, and you need toknow where you're lining the
sand or where your sort of trueNorth Star is, so that you can
(27:33):
remain authentic as a leader.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
I love that.
I love what you said you talkedabout going wider and deeper
rather than going up becauseI'll tell you something that
I've noticed there are somefantastic teachers and
practitioners to grow in salaryor grow professionally within
(28:00):
many schools and so they go upto leadership and they bomb like
they completely bomb, becausethat's not them.
What can schools do to ensurethey keep that talent and kind
of compensate them to the levelthat is worthy of their skills
and talents?
Speaker 3 (28:21):
I think it's really hard, isn't it?
Because I don't think there'sanywhere in the world that's
really developed a salary scale.
There will be an incrementalscale depending on years of
experience, but no one in theworld or no system has really
developed a salary scale thatreally can promote teachers to
stay in the classroom.
There's incremental salarypoint scales depending on years
(28:46):
of experience, but I think it'ssomething that could be done
much better because, as you say,some people go into leadership
roles and maybe not have theskill set or the authentic
inclination as to why they'regoing into leadership roles.
Additionally, it's taking somereally quality people out of the
most important role of theschool and that is being at the
(29:08):
chalk face teaching our students.
So we're trying to give abreadth of experiences and
opportunities.
So, for example, we've gotstaff recently who have looked
at developing more into theinclusion side of things, so
doing training and degrees ininclusion, and they're then
(29:29):
looking at sort of the breadthof what they can offer as a
teacher in different capacitythan solely as a classroom based
teacher yeah, it's interestingbecause I think who was I
talking to about this?
Speaker 2 (29:44):
I want to say Fiona Cotton, the Advanced Skills
Teacher Program in the UK sortof did a bit of that.
But you are right, there isn'tanything that is so established
that really speaks to keepingthe talent and making the
emphasis and the importancebeing placed on teacher and
(30:05):
teaching, because we all knowthat there is no school that is
better than the quality of itsteachers.
The quality of its teachers iswhat counts above everything
else.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Absolutely, absolutely, and all the evidence
points in that direction, andI've just had the pleasure of
having Professor Rob Cohen hereand I know he's joining you this
week at the Middle East SchoolLeadership Conference and you
know a lot of the things thathe's doing with the
evidence-based educationsupports, trying to develop
expertise in the classroombecause we know how impactful it
(30:38):
is.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah, absolutely All right, we're going to change
gears just a little bit andwe're coming back to you as a
leader.
So this year, as you justmentioned the Leadership
Conference, we're reallyfocusing on legacy.
So you're sitting in animportant chair, they're all sat
up right, it's your tie andeverything looking important.
What do you think your legacy?
(30:59):
You won't know it for sure, butwhat would you like it to be?
When you maybe exit the role,what would you want to leave as
a lasting impact that you havecreated?
Speaker 3 (31:15):
it would be the car park that I've just opened.
Adjacent Car parking around anyschool is a problem, isn't it?
And I've been working for 18months negotiating with the
government about some additionalparking facilities, which
finally have come to fruition.
But, in a realistic point ofview, I think legacies are a
(31:37):
really interesting aspect and Idon't think I ever have gone
into the job with the hope ofleaving or the intention of
leaving a legacy.
But I think, if I, what would Iwant people to say about me
when I leave?
I think I would want them tosay that he was hardworking, he
(31:58):
was authentic, he had integrity,he did what he said he would do
, and I think those are keyaspects.
I go back to sort of mychildhood, growing up surrounded
by dairy farmers and the firstout of interest, lisa.
The first job I had at 13 wasshoveling manure into
(32:20):
40-kilogram a on a dairy farmand um the, the dairy farmer,
john curtain, was paying me 50cents for each 40 kilogram bag,
which is about a dirham forevery 40 kilogram bag.
But the lessons I learned alongthat way of working hard, being
on time, doing what you say, Itold him I was going to work for
him and do this job and turningup and making sure that you do
(32:44):
it to the best of your abilityand being proud of non-dependent
of what your job is, beingproud of what you do and doing
it to the best of your abilityand I think that I hope would be
the legacy that I left here.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Yeah, I think it's such a hard question.
When we were coming up with thetopic for the leadership
conference, when we threw thatone out, everybody was like, oh
my God, it sounds very sort offinal, like, oh, what's your
legacy?
It means you're dead, but itdoesn't.
You know, legacy is somethingthat we're building, whether we
know it or we don't.
(33:20):
We are building it each andevery day when we turn up to
work, when we do what we do.
The minute we step away, theimpact we have positive or
negative is being built willhappen on Wednesday and Thursday
when people start to grapplewith that topic.
(33:40):
But as leaders, we have tothink about our impact, and the
impact we have is the legacythat we leave.
It's not separate from ourimpact.
I looked behind you and I sawthe man in the arena quote
behind you one of my favoritesnot the critic that counts.
Can you tell any aspiringleader what you would say are
(34:06):
some sage advice for them ifthey are now about to step into
a leadership role?
Speaker 3 (34:14):
sage advice, I think for me from my experience is is
build relationships.
Relationships are so importantto having impact and you've
touched on legacy having impact.
You can have the best ideas andbe the sharpest mind, but if
you can't bring people on thejourney with you and have those
(34:37):
relationships and be able topersuade people into, sometimes,
directions that maybe theydon't want to go but you think
and you know that possibly it'sthe best thing for the school,
it's about having those realconnections.
So I think, from a realpersonal perspective and I
touched on it before is, as aleader, really understanding who
(35:01):
you are and what are the thingsthat you stand for, what are
the things that maybe you knowmakes your hair raise on the
back of your neck, so that youknow how to be able to manage
those emotions.
You really come across so manydifferent interactions with
(35:23):
people in this organization of aschool.
So yeah, 2,200 students here,I've got 250 staff and really my
job on a day-to-day basis ismanaging people and talking with
people and that's where I think, from a leadership perspective,
I can have the biggest impact.
(35:44):
How can I have the biggestimpact as a leader?
For me it is about trying tobuild this culture, this
environment that allows peopleto flourish, because when my
staff are flourishing, that'sgoing to have a cascading effect
onto the students.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Yeah, I do agree with you.
I think relationships trumpeverything really.
Gosh, I can't believe I usedthe word trump.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Yeah, we're just going to say trump the
relationships in the same sensethey do at the moment.
I know.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Right, okay, it's the tail end of the pod.
What makes you angry?
Because you seem so calm.
I've never met you and you'renot this very even.
How do you maintain that?
Speaker 3 (36:27):
what makes you angry, steve, there has to be
something what makes me angry II honestly, I I don't get angry
and I am pretty much like thisthe whole time, and I think this
is really important I think,also as as a lesson in
leadership, is that you can'tget too high on the high and you
(36:51):
can't get too low on the lows,because you really need to silo
off emotions at different timeswhen you're walking from one
meeting to the next meeting.
I can't carry baggage from onemeeting to the next meeting.
I can't carry baggage from onemeeting into the next meeting
because it's going to have animpact on the outcome of that
meeting and I think that'sreally important for leaders.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
All right.
Last question You're easy totalk to, like I could sit here.
I was just looking at my wife.
I was like, oh my God, 45minutes.
It was supposed to be a 30minute podcast.
You're very, very easy to talkto, steve.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Thank you, you ask good questions.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
You're really easy, okay, when you are not at school
and you are not taking care ofyour two kids and that dog, that
I don't even know why you wentthe dog route, but that's on you
(37:49):
.
Dogs are lovely.
I like dogs.
It's just in UAE, dogs areexpensive.
When you're not doing any ofthat and you're not being a
principal and no one is watchingand there are no cameras, how?
Speaker 3 (37:55):
do you unwind?
I think this comes back.
This is a question that you'reasking based on a comment I made
on one of your linkedin posts,I think.
Um, regarding saunas dry saunasyeah, uh, one of the things I
do.
I and I've become more cognizantof being able to switch off,
and we just talked about siloingoff emotions and really going
(38:19):
home and some of the things yougo through as a leader on a
day-to-day basis.
You have some reallychallenging experiences and some
challenging conversations.
I think I said this to one ofmy assistant principals the
other day that I think if I hadto say one superpower I had as a
leader is my ability to sleep.
I can really just switch offand sleep without any problems,
(38:43):
which sort of obviously helpsyou get ready and prepared for
the next day and refresh.
But, yeah, one of the commentsthat I made on your LinkedIn
post about a question you hadasked about something along the
same vein is one of the thingsthat I've been doing quite
recently and I've always beeninto physical activity.
So staying fit, staying active,walking my dog, for example is
(39:07):
a great down, down, down, a winddown for me, but one of the
things I've been researchingmore of and been doing more of
is is dry saunas.
So I've I feel very privilegedto have a dry sauna in our
apartment complex.
So, yeah, about 80 degreesSauna's, about 80 degrees.
By the time you get in 20minutes in the sauna, you've got
(39:28):
no access to IT.
The kids can't get you, thephone can't get you, the
computer can't get you.
You have to sit with your ownthoughts for about 20 minutes
and just wind down and it is areally lovely way to sort of
disconnect from everything.
But there's a lot of researchbehind the impact on it and the
longevity for physical benefitsas well.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Yeah, I wish I had one.
When you wrote that I was likeoh, I wish I had like a dry
sauna close by.
But I live in a villa and thereis no dry sauna.
It's hard unless I build one.
And who's going to do that?
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Well, there are companies out there that are
building them now for villas,like personal dry saunas.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Really I wonder how much that costs Guys, we're
going to investigate that, sowe'll drop the comments below.
If you know the cost of a drysauna, it's middle-aged dry
sauna.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
You could have some sort of marketing on it off the
costs.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Yeah, we'll look into that.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
Steve, we could do podcasts from the dry sauna next
time, can?
Speaker 2 (40:29):
you imagine?
Can you imagine that, though?
That would be like somethingelse.
I think what we need to do iscome up with our top tips on
health and fitness and just likecompile them in like a nice
little post so people can pickfrom them the things that it
could, because so important it'sso important.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Yeah, it is actually, and like one of the things I
I've been sort of thinking moreof since I've been in this role
and I you know, I look at peoplelike mark lapard and other
heads who have been in posts fora long time and how, how do you
maintain that longevity in therole?
Yeah, with complexity andpressure of the position.
(41:08):
What are the secrets ofmaintaining that longevity and
that freshness Really important?
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Yeah, and Mark talks about switching off a lot and
about the fact that he's notafraid to show his staff that he
takes care of himself, becausehe wants them to take care of
themselves as well, which is soimportant, you know, for all
involved.
Absolutely.
Thank you for being on thepodcast, steve.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
It's been an absolute pleasure.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
You are dead easy to talk to.
You hear me, I am not joking.
I've done many of these and I'mgoing to put it on record.
You are one very, very easyperson to talk to.
Thank you very much.
It's been an absolute pleasure.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Thank you.
I hope you've enjoyed it and Ihope it's beneficial for some
others as well.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
I've enjoyed it and I'm sure it will be of benefit
to others.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Thank you for listening to the Teach Middle
East podcast.
Visit our websiteteachmiddleeastcom and follow us
on social media.
The links are in the show notes.
You are listening to the Teach Middle East podcast
connecting, developing andempowering educators.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of
the Teach Middle East podcastwith me, lisa Grace.
Today we're going behind theprincipal's desk again, but this
time not very far from home.
We're in Abu Dhabi and we'regoing behind the principal's
desk at Repton, abu Dhabi, withSteve Lupton.
Steve, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Thanks, lisa.
It's lovely to be here andwelcome behind my desk On
Sundays.
I'm sure principals would loveto swap seats.
So welcome behind my principalOn Sundays.
I'm sure principals would loveto swap seats.
So welcome behind myprincipal's desk today.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Thank you so much.
I think sometimes with the jobof a principal, people often
think it's one thing when it'sanother.
I often tell people when I wasa principal, people thought I
sat behind my desk and gaveorders when really I was
rerouting buses and cleaning uppaper that I've seen thrown on
(01:10):
the floor and doing all sorts ofthings.
What are some of the unusualthings you have to do in that
role that people don't eventhink about?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Oh, it is a variety, isn't it?
It's such a variety of aspectsof job that you have day to day
a variety of aspects of job thatyou have day to day yes,
cleaning up, picking up rubbish.
I'll give you a perfect examplethis morning.
I was at the front door thismorning and one of the boys two
brothers had got a taxi toschool and one was on his phone
(01:39):
to his mom at reception becausetheir Apple Pay wouldn't open on
their phone so they couldn'tpay the taxi.
So I went out to the car parkand paid their taxi fare this
morning.
So it's such a diverse array oftasks throughout your day.
But lovely, I really absolutelylove the job, the variety of it
.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah, I think we need to always save space for that.
You know that unpredictabilityof the role of principal,
because you could walk in andyou know what happened once in
my in my time in Al Ain at myschool, we had heavy rainfall
and we didn't know because thiswas a brand new addict school,
(02:21):
massive building, boys and girls, and it was over a thousand
students and we were in thecanteen.
We were all kind of there andthe rain was falling.
You know the kids kind of gocrazy when it's raining.
Guess what happened A part ofthe roof caved in while we were
in there and water flooded inthe canteen.
(02:41):
You can't make the script up upat all.
Tell me, before your principalrole, what were you doing?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
take me back to early days because I like to go back,
back, back back back back toearly days, um, back back back
to, I guess, my childhood is.
Uh, quite I guess it's aninteresting childhood from my
experience.
I I grew up in Australia.
I'm from Australia originally.
I've spent sort of six years inthe UK and now about eight
(03:10):
years in the UAE.
But I grew up born to my motherwho emigrated, or her
grandparents emigrated, fromHolland, the Netherlands, after
World War II in about 1950.
And my father is Chinese, orfrom Hong Kong, and he was
(03:31):
emigrated from Hong Kong toAustralia.
So I've grown up, this mixedrace boy in country, new South
Wales, surrounded by dairy farms.
So that was quite aninteresting childhood growing up
and I guess some of the thingsthat have had a real impact on
me growing up and the person,the leader I've become is my
(03:52):
parents split up when I was 18months of age, so I was raised
as an only child by my motherfor many, many years.
It wasn't until the age of 33that I came back into contact
with my father actually.
So it's a bit of a it's a longstory but it's a bit of a long
lost family type of episode.
(04:12):
But those type of moments andthose type of experiences really
impact you, and it's a slidingdoors type of moment that's
impacted me in a real positiveway, I think.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
What's your relationship like now with your
father?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
I have a fantastic relationship with my father.
Yeah, I'd been looking for himfor quite a long time for about
eight years and my wife is fromthe UK, so we'd travel sort of
between Australia and the UKquite often and we'd stopped in
Hong Kong and I knew he was fromHong Kong and we stopped in
Hong Kong on one of the journeysand I was thinking, imagine if
(04:51):
my dad had walked past or satdown next to me.
So that sort of got me thinkingI should be trying to find him.
And we spent about eight yearstrying to find him and couldn't
find him.
And then one day my grandfatheron my mom's side, who's got a
very recognizable Dutch name,van Denderen was S and M, so
they're easy to find in thephone book.
This was before social mediaand my grandfather had rang me
(05:15):
and he said I was at work at thetime.
He said can you sit down?
I've got something to tell you.
And I genuinely thought, lisa,that he was going to tell me
that he'd won the lottery.
My grandfather always playedthe lottery every week and I
thought he was going to tell mehe'd won the lottery.
But he said I found your dad.
He's just rang me.
Here's his number.
He wants you to give him a call.
So I rang him and by chance helived like 12 kilometers from
(05:41):
where I was in Sydney, and hesaid to me happy birthday, it
was my 33rd birthday.
He said happy birthday, whatare you doing tonight for your
birthday?
And we were going to arestaurant just up the road and
he said do you mind if I comeand join you for dinner?
And I was like, yeah, of course.
So I really should have sort ofsaid can you wear a red jumper
(06:04):
or something?
So I know who it is when youwalk in the restaurant.
So my wife, alex, and I weresitting in the restaurant
waiting to see who comes throughthe door and yeah, it was
immediately recognizable to mewhen he walked through the door
that that he was my dad.
So yeah, it was a.
It was a lovely moment.
I then found out that I havestep sisters or half-sisters two
(06:27):
half-sisters and a half-brotheron my dad's side.
We're here being married, soChristmas has become a lot more
expensive at that point.
But yeah, it was lovely and Ithink we've you know, it's sort
of 12 years ago now and we'vegot a really strong connection.
I'm really strongly connectedto that side of my family.
It's been a really interestingprocess of understanding that
(06:51):
cultural aspect of my family,that Asian side of my family.
So that's been quite aninteresting process.
Only two years after I sort ofreconnected with my dad is when
we had our eldest boy, and mydad and my oldest son, harvey,
have got this really reallyclose connection and I think
it's probably part of my dad'sway of sort of making sure he's
(07:15):
giving back of maybe what he'smissed out giving to me.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, that's a really , really beautiful story.
It's interesting, you know,when you think about family and
all the dynamics that go on.
We all have such rich historythat sometimes when you meet
people you can never tell Like,that story you just told me is
not one that I would haveimagined.
Do you know what I mean?
And so these conversations areso important.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think growing up yeah,absolutely, I think growing up I
probably tried to close thatpart of my heritage and culture
off, because I grew up as asingle child without a father.
I was in a country, a very sortof Caucasian low socioeconomic
area of country, new South Walesso I probably tried to shut
(08:01):
that part of me off.
But what I've realized it'sreconnecting with my father at
that point and having thisbeautiful family, diverse family
, has definitely filled a holein my heart that I probably
didn't realize was there.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, and provided your kids with the grandfather
figure that we all want to giveour kids.
I mean it's beautiful.
Because I can't give my kidsthat?
Because my dad died when I was19 years old and he was the best
dad and would have been thebest grandfather.
But you know, that's how thedice rolled and I lost him when
(08:42):
I was before I even thought ofhaving kids.
I was just midway throughuniversity when he passed.
So you spent time in the UK.
What made you move fromAustralia to the UK?
Speaker 3 (08:59):
At the time and I moved to the UK when it was
around 2000, early 2000s, so I'dfinished university.
Prior to that I had sport.
Football particularly, had beenmy one sort of passion growing
up as a child and I wasfortunate that I was relatively
good at it.
I didn't have any otherpassions.
(09:21):
I don't think I was really.
I grew up in a very lowsocioeconomic area and I was
probably at the low end of thelow socioeconomic sort of
spectrum of kids there.
So I don't think I was reallyexposed to anything else but
football.
So that was sort of my onlyvision and dream of how I could
get out of this sort ofpredicament, if you like I was
(09:43):
in.
How I could get out of thissort of predicament, if you like
I was in.
So I was fortunate enough to begiven a full scholarship at the
Australian Institute of Sport.
So I left home at the age of 16and I moved down to the
Australian Institute of Sport.
It was in Canberra.
It was set up for I think itwas after sort of a failed
Olympics Australia.
(10:03):
It didn't win any gold medalsin the 1978 Olympics or
something along those lines.
So the government set this up.
Obviously, australia being verycompetitive.
We can't have an Olympics wherewe don't win gold medals.
So they set up the AustralianInstitute of Sport for all the
Olympic sports and they hadscholarships for all the top
young athletes over the country.
(10:24):
So it was a live-in sort ofplace.
We trained full-time, it wasvery high-performance focused
and you went to school downthere.
So I had that lovely opportunityto be able to do that, which
really opened my eyes, and partof that we did a six-week trip
to South America.
So we traveled and we went andplayed against teams in
(10:45):
Argentina and Brazil.
So that really opened my eyesup to traveling.
So after that had finished andI completed university, I really
just wanted to go and traveland at the time it was very,
very common for Australians, andAustralian teachers in
particular, to go over to the UKon a working holiday visa.
We could stay over there on auk on a working holiday visa.
(11:08):
We could stay over there on atwo year working holiday visa
and work and then travel.
So that's what took me to tolondon.
Originally I had six years.
I loved the six years that Ihad in london where?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
where were you in london, my city?
Speaker 3 (11:21):
your city my city well, I I ended up in a in a
school called raven's park prepschool, which is uh sort of
between chiswick and hammersmith, but prior to that I worked in
a number of places worked andlived in sydenham, uh, tufnell
park, but uh, I think probablymost memorable the schools I
(11:45):
worked at.
I worked in a school in Brixtonfor about six months and that
was a great education inbehavior management and, yeah,
really challenging school, butsome fantastic people, some
fantastic kids.
When you really win theirrespect, you win their hearts.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
What did you teach?
Speaker 3 (12:11):
I did a double degree , so I've got a primary school
teaching degree and a physicaleducation degree, so I've
doubled in a bit of both.
When I was in London primaryschool I also was a head of PE
and now principal across twocampuses.
Of000 plus students fromnursery through to year 13.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yeah, we're going to get to that.
We're going to get to that.
But I wanted to go back to theAustralian Olympics.
Did you see the Australianbreakdancing at the Sears
Olympics?
You have to tell me what youthought about that.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Yes, yes, unfortunately I did.
Unfortunately I did.
From what I can see is thatthey've taken breakdancing out
of the next Olympics and I thinkeveryone in Australia is quite
happy about that.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Listen, I saw that.
I think that meme made my dayfor several days.
I cracked up so much I thoughtyou know what there has to be
humour.
I'm sure that's not whatAustralia was going for, but man
, they nailed humour there forsure.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
I'm not sure what she was going for, but yeah, she
certainly made a mark.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
She certainly did so.
Your life in England led you toAbu Dhabi, or did you go
somewhere else before you gothere?
Speaker 3 (13:25):
No, I returned to Australia.
I returned to Australia foraround 10 years.
So, quite nicely, the academicyear obviously in the UK
finishes in July and theAustralian academic year is
based on the calendar year, soit doesn't start until January,
february.
So I had a sort of a six monthbreak where I went and traveled.
(13:47):
I went and traveled throughSouth America for six months and
I think that is a huge part ofwho I am as well and who I've
become is because of the amountof traveling that I've done and
the experiences that I've hadfrom traveling and the lessons
that I've learned from traveling.
It certainly has played a parton how I lead and how I connect
with people.
(14:08):
But I went back to Australia.
I was very fortunate to be givena role at Sydney Grammar School
in Sydney, which is one ofAustralia's longest established
schools in Australia privateschools.
It's an academically selectiveschool, some very bright boys.
It's a boys' school, verybright boys along sort of alumni
(14:31):
of very important people inAustralian history.
So, as an example, sir EdmundBarton, who was Australia's
first prime minister, was fromSydney Grammar School.
So in that way there's somealignment to where I am now at
Repton, who has equally a verylong history and a very
(14:53):
impressive list of alumni.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, where was your favorite place to travel?
In South America.
I love that part of the worldas well.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
It's so diverse.
I actually really love Bolivia.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Really no, I haven't been to Bolivia.
Have you traveled through CostaRica and Panama?
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I have been not through Panama, but I have been
through Costa Rica, el Salvador,honduras, all the way up
through Mexico.
I got caught in a hurricane inMexico, in southern Mexico, that
had to be locked down into ahotel for about four days, so
that was quite an interestingexperience.
But I do love that sort ofCentral America, south America.
(15:32):
I've been trying to learnSpanish for a number of years
and spent some time in Cuenca inEcuador trying to learn Spanish
, so that was quite a niceexperience.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah, I challenge you to your next set of adventure
to do the Caribbean, yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
I have touched on the Bahamas, but I need to explore.
I'd love to go to Jamaica,actually.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Jamaica, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Barbados, St
Lucia, Antigua and, if you canget down to St Vincent and the
Grenadines.
You, oh my God, you probablywon't come back.
You will love it that much.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Well, I know all these places by name because
growing up in Australia, we usedto have this huge cricket
rivalry with West Indies at thetime.
So Kirtley, ambrose, these typeof guys and that was the era,
and there were amazing athletesas well in the West Indies.
But it's not a simple flightfrom here, is it?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
No, I mean, I haven't been in a few years,
unfortunately, but when you dogo, you can go through.
I normally either go throughLondon, so from here to London
and then from London you can getnonstop to Barbados or nonstop
to Montego Bay, jamaica, or evennonstop to Cuba, or you can fly
from here to the United Statesand then fly down from the
(16:57):
United States to the Caribbean.
But it's not as complicated asit might sound, it's just long.
The flight is long but it'svery easy.
It's not a hard flight becauseit's just one connection.
So from here to either of thoseand then another flight down to
the Caribbean.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
It's just the cost.
Now I've got two kids, so it'sfour flights here to either of
those and then another flightdown to the Caribbean.
It's just the cost.
Now I've got two kids, so it'sfour flights, and now we've got
a dog as well, so I've got totry and work out what I do with
my dog over the summer holidays.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Oh yeah, oh the dog.
Yeah, you did mention that whenwe met the other day.
I have this dog now.
Yeah, that's a responsibility.
I don't know how to help youwith that.
So what year did you come outhere to Abu Dhabi?
Speaker 3 (17:37):
2017.
So when Repton Fry Campus thesenior school campus opened in
September 2017 is when I arrived.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
What led you to Abu Dhabi?
Why the UAE?
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Yeah, good question.
I never saw myself working inthe UAE actually, and I come
through here.
A former colleague friend ofmine, robert Relton, who I
worked with, who was theheadmaster of Ravenscourt Park
in London, and I worked with himfor four or five years in
London and he was, in terms ofleadership and impact on me as a
(18:17):
role model for a leader.
He certainly left that reallypositive impact of a leader on
me.
He ended up coming to the UAEand was the founding principal
of Repton, so he opened Reptonin Abu Dhabi in 2013.
When it first opened and we hadflown, as I said, we were sort
(18:41):
of going between Sydney and theUK because my wife was in the UK
, so we stopped through here.
It was one December on the wayfrom Sydney to Manchester and we
had our eldest boy at the time,who was about eight months old,
and I remember thinking at thetime it was really, really hot
in December and now in DecemberI've got like hoodies on and
(19:05):
it's freezing.
So you become acclimatized veryquickly, don't you?
But we had a lovely few dayshere in Abu Dhabi and Rob showed
us around, but I never at thatpoint thought that we would live
here at any stage and then, outof the blue, one day he rang me
up and an opportunity had comeup to come and work here.
I'd been at Sydney GrammarSchool for nearly nine years
(19:28):
going on 10 years at this pointand Sydney Grammar School is a
place where not many people left, if you know what I mean.
So they paid very well.
It was an excellent school, sothere wasn't much career
development or progressionhappening.
I just recently finished mymaster's in educational
(19:49):
leadership and I was ready to dosomething else and we'd always
with my wife's family in the UK.
We'd always sort of talk aboutliving overseas again, but we
weren't really sure where.
So I ended up having aninterview with Rob and
discussions, and I didn't tellmy wife any of this at this
point.
So she was quite shocked when Isaid to her by the way, I've
(20:11):
got a job offer in Abu Dhabi and, to be fair to her, she took it
quite gracefully.
We just had our second child atthat point, so he was certainly
about three months at the timewhen we had this discussion.
But yeah, we got to a pointwhere Sydney is very expensive
as well.
(20:31):
So we thought we'd try AbuDhabi and eight years later
we're still here.
We absolutely love life livinghere.
Our boys have grown up from you, know where they are three
years and eight months when wearrived, to now 10 and eight
years of age, and we feel very,very fortunate to be able to
(20:54):
live in such a beautiful country.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
So that's actually quite typical of people who come
to the UAE.
For people listening to thepodcast, who probably are maybe
just starting their journey,thinking I'll be going out there
for a year or two.
Let me be the one to warn youthat you probably will be here
for eight, nine or, like me, 14years and counting, without any
(21:22):
plans of going anywhere.
So tell me about your careerprogression at Repton, because
when I met you, you were, Ithink, vice principal at the
time.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Yes, yes, I feel like I've played.
To give it a metaphor, I feellike I've played every position
on the pitch at Repton so far.
So when I first arrived in 2017, I came as a teacher, so I was
teaching a year five class.
It was when we'd first openedFrye Campus.
We had September 2017 and wehad 160 students on Frye campus
(21:57):
from year three through to yearsix, so we had two year five
classes.
I was teaching a year fiveclasses with a colleague of mine
, tanvir Jalani, who still workshere now, and I had that lovely
opportunity of sort of settlingstudents into a new campus.
It was quite an exciting time.
I arrived and we did inset atthe Rose campus, which is the
(22:21):
earliest campus which wasalready open down at the bottom
of Ream Island.
We did inset down there becausethe Frye campus wasn't open yet
and hadn't had a approval ADECapproval to open open yet and
hadn't had a approval ad hocapproval to open.
So, like things over here isquite last minute.
We got ad hoc approval to openthe campus two days before
students were supposed to arrivebefore the start of the
(22:43):
academic year.
So everyone came in over thosetwo days, 48 hours.
No one really slept.
Everyone was hands to the tillum, trying to turn what was
essentially a building site intoa school to welcome new
students, and we managed to dothat, and I think that's why
(23:03):
we've got so many staff with theloyalty and buy-in that we've
got.
We literally have had blood,sweat and tears being spilled in
getting this campus to thisschool, to where it is, and I've
still got some fantasticcolleagues, a lot of fantastic
colleagues who who with werewith me at that point in time,
who who still remain at theschool and so how did?
(23:24):
your career progress yeah, fromthere I I was, I had year five.
For that year, I think I sortof picked up or I was promoted
into an assistant head rolewithin sort of the first six
months and I took on somefurther responsibility and some
responsibility, professionaldevelopment, and then, I seem to
(23:44):
, as the school grew quitequickly.
Year on year the schoolexpanded and grew quite rapidly.
I then was promoted into adeputy head of academic role.
I then was promoted into adeputy head of academic role
which then ended up being a viceprincipal role overseeing both
campuses, and this was workingwith Gillian Hammond, who's the
principal at Repton Dubai.
(24:04):
So I was working closely withher underneath her leadership.
Yeah, gillian went to ReptonAl-Basha and ultimately Repton
Dubai, which gave me theopportunity to sort of become
the principal, interim principaland now the full-time principal
, which I've been for the lastthree years.
So it's interesting howopportunities and sliding doors
(24:27):
sort of happen here and I guessfrom anyone looking from an
aspirational leadershipperspective, I don't think I
could have ever sort of coursedthe map the way things have
happened, and I think my sort ofwords of wisdom in that is
you've just got to be trying toensure that you are ready when
(24:50):
opportunities rise.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah, I was going to actually ask you as well for new
teachers coming out here whoare worried about their career
progressions what steps can theytake to make sure that they're
in the right place at the righttime for these opportunities?
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Yeah, it's difficult, isn't it?
It depends on the school thatyou're joining.
But I've found over here andit's still the same.
Here we have a very high staffretention rate.
But there are alwaysopportunities that arise to
allow people to move intoleadership roles.
But I think what can they do?
You don't have to have a titleto be a leader.
(25:31):
So, developing those leadershiptraits and developing those
leadership experiences as muchas you can, so that you are
ready to take on when you aregiven that opportunity to take
on those leadership experiences.
I was fortunate to come fromsort of a PE sporting background
where you traditionally and myhead director of sport today has
(25:53):
just had 800 students out forthe single school sports day.
Organizing a whole school eventlike that, the logistics of it,
the health and safety of it, itgives you such great experience
for what's to come in terms ofleadership.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah, what advice would you give to school leaders
who are looking not schoolleaders or teachers who are
looking to get into schoolleadership, but they are very
hesitant to take on these roles.
What advice would you give themto kind of push them into, you
know, stepping up?
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yeah, I think it's important to note two things,
isn't it?
Career progression doesn'tnecessarily mean you have to go
upwards in an upward trajectory,because there are a lot of
fantastic teachers out there andcareer progression for them
they may not want theresponsibility of leadership.
(26:47):
Career progression for themmight be more about breadth
rather than going an upwardtrajectory.
So I think that's veryimportant For those that are
looking to step up trajectory.
So I think that's veryimportant For those that are
looking to step up intoleadership.
I think you've got to be reallyclear about why you want to be
a leader, and I think, probablymore than anything that I've
learned on my journey is thatyou need to be really
(27:10):
understanding of who you are asa person and what your values
and morals are, because whenyou're placed in a position of
leadership, particularly inquite a diverse environment that
we live in, people will try andpush you or sway you in terms
of your values, and you need toknow where you're lining the
sand or where your sort of trueNorth Star is, so that you can
(27:33):
remain authentic as a leader.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
I love that.
I love what you said you talkedabout going wider and deeper
rather than going up becauseI'll tell you something that
I've noticed there are somefantastic teachers and
practitioners to grow in salaryor grow professionally within
(28:00):
many schools and so they go upto leadership and they bomb like
they completely bomb, becausethat's not them.
What can schools do to ensurethey keep that talent and kind
of compensate them to the levelthat is worthy of their skills
and talents?
Speaker 3 (28:21):
I think it's really hard, isn't it?
Because I don't think there'sanywhere in the world that's
really developed a salary scale.
There will be an incrementalscale depending on years of
experience, but no one in theworld or no system has really
developed a salary scale thatreally can promote teachers to
stay in the classroom.
There's incremental salarypoint scales depending on years
(28:46):
of experience, but I think it'ssomething that could be done
much better because, as you say,some people go into leadership
roles and maybe not have theskill set or the authentic
inclination as to why they'regoing into leadership roles.
Additionally, it's taking somereally quality people out of the
most important role of theschool and that is being at the
(29:08):
chalk face teaching our students.
So we're trying to give abreadth of experiences and
opportunities.
So, for example, we've gotstaff recently who have looked
at developing more into theinclusion side of things, so
doing training and degrees ininclusion, and they're then
(29:29):
looking at sort of the breadthof what they can offer as a
teacher in different capacitythan solely as a classroom based
teacher yeah, it's interestingbecause I think who was I
talking to about this?
Speaker 2 (29:44):
I want to say Fiona Cotton, the Advanced Skills
Teacher Program in the UK sortof did a bit of that.
But you are right, there isn'tanything that is so established
that really speaks to keepingthe talent and making the
emphasis and the importancebeing placed on teacher and
(30:05):
teaching, because we all knowthat there is no school that is
better than the quality of itsteachers.
The quality of its teachers iswhat counts above everything
else.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Absolutely, absolutely, and all the evidence
points in that direction, andI've just had the pleasure of
having Professor Rob Cohen hereand I know he's joining you this
week at the Middle East SchoolLeadership Conference and you
know a lot of the things thathe's doing with the
evidence-based educationsupports, trying to develop
expertise in the classroombecause we know how impactful it
(30:38):
is.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah, absolutely All right, we're going to change
gears just a little bit andwe're coming back to you as a
leader.
So this year, as you justmentioned the Leadership
Conference, we're reallyfocusing on legacy.
So you're sitting in animportant chair, they're all sat
up right, it's your tie andeverything looking important.
What do you think your legacy?
(30:59):
You won't know it for sure, butwhat would you like it to be?
When you maybe exit the role,what would you want to leave as
a lasting impact that you havecreated?
Speaker 3 (31:15):
it would be the car park that I've just opened.
Adjacent Car parking around anyschool is a problem, isn't it?
And I've been working for 18months negotiating with the
government about some additionalparking facilities, which
finally have come to fruition.
But, in a realistic point ofview, I think legacies are a
(31:37):
really interesting aspect and Idon't think I ever have gone
into the job with the hope ofleaving or the intention of
leaving a legacy.
But I think, if I, what would Iwant people to say about me
when I leave?
I think I would want them tosay that he was hardworking, he
(31:58):
was authentic, he had integrity,he did what he said he would do
, and I think those are keyaspects.
I go back to sort of mychildhood, growing up surrounded
by dairy farmers and the firstout of interest, lisa.
The first job I had at 13 wasshoveling manure into
(32:20):
40-kilogram a on a dairy farmand um the, the dairy farmer,
john curtain, was paying me 50cents for each 40 kilogram bag,
which is about a dirham forevery 40 kilogram bag.
But the lessons I learned alongthat way of working hard, being
on time, doing what you say, Itold him I was going to work for
him and do this job and turningup and making sure that you do
(32:44):
it to the best of your abilityand being proud of non-dependent
of what your job is, beingproud of what you do and doing
it to the best of your abilityand I think that I hope would be
the legacy that I left here.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Yeah, I think it's such a hard question.
When we were coming up with thetopic for the leadership
conference, when we threw thatone out, everybody was like, oh
my God, it sounds very sort offinal, like, oh, what's your
legacy?
It means you're dead, but itdoesn't.
You know, legacy is somethingthat we're building, whether we
know it or we don't.
(33:20):
We are building it each andevery day when we turn up to
work, when we do what we do.
The minute we step away, theimpact we have positive or
negative is being built willhappen on Wednesday and Thursday
when people start to grapplewith that topic.
(33:40):
But as leaders, we have tothink about our impact, and the
impact we have is the legacythat we leave.
It's not separate from ourimpact.
I looked behind you and I sawthe man in the arena quote
behind you one of my favoritesnot the critic that counts.
Can you tell any aspiringleader what you would say are
(34:06):
some sage advice for them ifthey are now about to step into
a leadership role?
Speaker 3 (34:14):
sage advice, I think for me from my experience is is
build relationships.
Relationships are so importantto having impact and you've
touched on legacy having impact.
You can have the best ideas andbe the sharpest mind, but if
you can't bring people on thejourney with you and have those
(34:37):
relationships and be able topersuade people into, sometimes,
directions that maybe theydon't want to go but you think
and you know that possibly it'sthe best thing for the school,
it's about having those realconnections.
So I think, from a realpersonal perspective and I
touched on it before is, as aleader, really understanding who
(35:01):
you are and what are the thingsthat you stand for, what are
the things that maybe you knowmakes your hair raise on the
back of your neck, so that youknow how to be able to manage
those emotions.
You really come across so manydifferent interactions with
(35:23):
people in this organization of aschool.
So yeah, 2,200 students here,I've got 250 staff and really my
job on a day-to-day basis ismanaging people and talking with
people and that's where I think, from a leadership perspective,
I can have the biggest impact.
(35:44):
How can I have the biggestimpact as a leader?
For me it is about trying tobuild this culture, this
environment that allows peopleto flourish, because when my
staff are flourishing, that'sgoing to have a cascading effect
onto the students.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Yeah, I do agree with you.
I think relationships trumpeverything really.
Gosh, I can't believe I usedthe word trump.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Yeah, we're just going to say trump the
relationships in the same sensethey do at the moment.
I know.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Right, okay, it's the tail end of the pod.
What makes you angry?
Because you seem so calm.
I've never met you and you'renot this very even.
How do you maintain that?
Speaker 3 (36:27):
what makes you angry, steve, there has to be
something what makes me angry II honestly, I I don't get angry
and I am pretty much like thisthe whole time, and I think this
is really important I think,also as as a lesson in
leadership, is that you can'tget too high on the high and you
(36:51):
can't get too low on the lows,because you really need to silo
off emotions at different timeswhen you're walking from one
meeting to the next meeting.
I can't carry baggage from onemeeting to the next meeting.
I can't carry baggage from onemeeting into the next meeting
because it's going to have animpact on the outcome of that
meeting and I think that'sreally important for leaders.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
All right.
Last question You're easy totalk to, like I could sit here.
I was just looking at my wife.
I was like, oh my God, 45minutes.
It was supposed to be a 30minute podcast.
You're very, very easy to talkto, steve.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Thank you, you ask good questions.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
You're really easy, okay, when you are not at school
and you are not taking care ofyour two kids and that dog, that
I don't even know why you wentthe dog route, but that's on you
(37:49):
.
Dogs are lovely.
I like dogs.
It's just in UAE, dogs areexpensive.
When you're not doing any ofthat and you're not being a
principal and no one is watchingand there are no cameras, how?
Speaker 3 (37:55):
do you unwind?
I think this comes back.
This is a question that you'reasking based on a comment I made
on one of your linkedin posts,I think.
Um, regarding saunas dry saunasyeah, uh, one of the things I
do.
I and I've become more cognizantof being able to switch off,
and we just talked about siloingoff emotions and really going
(38:19):
home and some of the things yougo through as a leader on a
day-to-day basis.
You have some reallychallenging experiences and some
challenging conversations.
I think I said this to one ofmy assistant principals the
other day that I think if I hadto say one superpower I had as a
leader is my ability to sleep.
I can really just switch offand sleep without any problems,
(38:43):
which sort of obviously helpsyou get ready and prepared for
the next day and refresh.
But, yeah, one of the commentsthat I made on your LinkedIn
post about a question you hadasked about something along the
same vein is one of the thingsthat I've been doing quite
recently and I've always beeninto physical activity.
So staying fit, staying active,walking my dog, for example is
(39:07):
a great down, down, down, a winddown for me, but one of the
things I've been researchingmore of and been doing more of
is is dry saunas.
So I've I feel very privilegedto have a dry sauna in our
apartment complex.
So, yeah, about 80 degreesSauna's, about 80 degrees.
By the time you get in 20minutes in the sauna, you've got
(39:28):
no access to IT.
The kids can't get you, thephone can't get you, the
computer can't get you.
You have to sit with your ownthoughts for about 20 minutes
and just wind down and it is areally lovely way to sort of
disconnect from everything.
But there's a lot of researchbehind the impact on it and the
longevity for physical benefitsas well.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Yeah, I wish I had one.
When you wrote that I was likeoh, I wish I had like a dry
sauna close by.
But I live in a villa and thereis no dry sauna.
It's hard unless I build one.
And who's going to do that?
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Well, there are companies out there that are
building them now for villas,like personal dry saunas.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Really I wonder how much that costs Guys, we're
going to investigate that, sowe'll drop the comments below.
If you know the cost of a drysauna, it's middle-aged dry
sauna.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
You could have some sort of marketing on it off the
costs.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Yeah, we'll look into that.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
Steve, we could do podcasts from the dry sauna next
time, can?
Speaker 2 (40:29):
you imagine?
Can you imagine that, though?
That would be like somethingelse.
I think what we need to do iscome up with our top tips on
health and fitness and just likecompile them in like a nice
little post so people can pickfrom them the things that it
could, because so important it'sso important.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Yeah, it is actually, and like one of the things I
I've been sort of thinking moreof since I've been in this role
and I you know, I look at peoplelike mark lapard and other
heads who have been in posts fora long time and how, how do you
maintain that longevity in therole?
Yeah, with complexity andpressure of the position.
(41:08):
What are the secrets ofmaintaining that longevity and
that freshness Really important?
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Yeah, and Mark talks about switching off a lot and
about the fact that he's notafraid to show his staff that he
takes care of himself, becausehe wants them to take care of
themselves as well, which is soimportant, you know, for all
involved.
Absolutely.
Thank you for being on thepodcast, steve.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
It's been an absolute pleasure.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
You are dead easy to talk to.
You hear me, I am not joking.
I've done many of these and I'mgoing to put it on record.
You are one very, very easyperson to talk to.
Thank you very much.
It's been an absolute pleasure.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Thank you.
I hope you've enjoyed it and Ihope it's beneficial for some
others as well.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
I've enjoyed it and I'm sure it will be of benefit
to others.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Thank you for listening to the Teach Middle
East podcast.
Visit our websiteteachmiddleeastcom and follow us
on social media.
The links are in the show notes.
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