Global Lessons from Dr. Saima Rana on Inclusivity, Leadership and Giving

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Dr Saima Rana, CEO and Principal of GEMS World Academy, Dubai, and Deputy CEO of GEMS Education Global, shares her remarkable journey from a spirited upbringing in West London to leading global educational initiatives. Rooted in values from her close-knit, community-focused family, Dr. Saima reflects on how her passion for the arts and a practical career in economics led her to transform Westminster Academy, igniting hope and success for its students.

Dr. Saima’s commitment to inclusive education and international philanthropy shines through her work at GEMS World Academy, a school community of over 120 nationalities. Her efforts with the Shehnaz Foundation in Pakistan—creating schools, supporting orphanages, and empowering women leaders—highlight her dedication to global citizenship. She also candidly discusses the barriers facing women in educational leadership and advocates for mentorship and community support. Dr. Saima’s story is a powerful call to action for inclusivity and empowerment.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
You are listening to the Teach Middle East podcast
connecting, developing andempowering educators.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Teach Middle East
podcast, or welcome if this isyour first time listening.
My name is Lisa Grace and it ismy pleasure to have you
listening to us today On ourpodcast.
Today we have Dr Saima Rana.
She is the CEO and Principal ofGEMS World Academy, dubai, but
not only that, she's also theDeputy CEO of GEMS Education

(00:37):
Global.
Now she is a formidable womanand a leader in the space, so we
are excited to have her on thepodcast.
Welcome, dr Saima.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Thank you so much, lisa.
It is my absolute pleasure tojoin you.
I've been very excited aboutmeeting with you and speaking to
you this afternoon.
Thank you, you are most welcome.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
I want to start straight in because I want to
ask the questions everyonewonders but never have the
opportunity to ask.
Take me back to Little Saima.
Where did you grow up?
What was life like for LittleSaima?

Speaker 3 (01:11):
Oh, wow, you are taking me back.
So I grew up in London.
I am born and bred in London,in West London, so I was born in
Hillingdon and I've lived inthe borough of Ealing all my
life.
So I grew up in a beautiful,loving, caring family with three
siblings, so there were four ofus growing up.
I have an elder sister and twoyounger brothers and very

(01:32):
hardworking, humble, amazingrole model parents Mother was a
teacher and then a housewife,and father a businessman worked
incredibly hard to give us agreat life, a great childhood,
and we were a family that wasvery religious in terms of our
morals and our values, a Muslimfamily, background from India,

(01:53):
pakistan, saudi Arabia andEngland, but a family that was
very much aware of our communityand about people and
relationships, and my parentswere incredibly caring people.
If people around them in thesort of late 80s didn't have
much, my parents were the firstto be approached and to support.
So I grew up in a very lovingfamily.

(02:15):
We used to laugh to our parentsthat we had an open door policy.
My mother used to say an opendoor policy Anybody can arrive
to our home and share our meal,what little or lot we had.
We never fussed about food orthings.
It was there for everybody, itwasn't just for us siblings.
So we grew up with thismentality of sharing and caring
and many nights me and mysiblings spent sleeping on the

(02:37):
floor in our family home becausevisitors arrived without notice
and needed a bed.
And of course, in our familyand in our culture the visitors
would get the bed and get thebest of what we had and we'd end
up sleeping on the floortogether.
But it was such a joyous, happy, a real sort of a life full of
experiences and full of laughterand love Brilliant.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
What was school like for you?
Where did you go to school?

Speaker 3 (03:00):
So I went to school in the borough of Ealing.
I went to state school and I'mvery proud that I am a student
of state school and the stateeducation system in the United
Kingdom.
I went to a state grammarschool for secondary School was
just a phenomenal place for me.
I loved and still do lovepeople, love friends, very much
enjoyed learning.

(03:21):
I could be mischievous atschool, not to say that I wasn't
your sort of oh gosh I hope mystudents don't hear this but I
wasn't your sort of perfect, youknow, a-star student.
I was the mischievous, alwayswanted to inquire and be
inquisitive student with lots offriends, but always high
performing.
So I was your A-star studentbecause academics were important

(03:42):
to me and I came from a familywhere they were important, but
always high performing.
So I was your A-star studentbecause academics were important
to me and I came from a familywhere they were important.
But I did enjoy my experienceand this is something that's
really important to me for mychildren here is that you must
enjoy the experience of schoolbecause they're your best years.
You learn how to make friends,you learn how to have a
heartbreak.
You learn how to fall out offriendships and then have to

(04:05):
deal with them, have to be partof a sporting elite team or be
part of athletics and just enjoythe experiences.
Of course, success andacademics and outcomes are
incredibly important, butthey're not more important than
the experiences of being young,being carefree, enjoying company
, understanding who you want tobe when you're older.
Perhaps you end up makingfriends with the types of people

(04:27):
that will carry you throughyour school years and sometimes
you won't, so those things werevery important for me personally
.
At school.
My teachers were very importantto me.
At school, I loved my teachers.
They gave me a lot of time.
In particular, I spent a lot oftime in the gym and with the
sports teachers.
I was hockey captain.
I was netball captain.
I was a cross country runner.

(04:47):
I was 200 and 100 meter runner.
I was very much into sports.
I loved it.
It just I loved beingcompetitive.
I love winning statistically ondata and performance, but I
also love being part of a teamand being hockey captain.
Netball captain gave me thatsort of place within my school
peers that I was leading a team,but it was very much a sport

(05:08):
that was about caring andlooking after other people.
I loved the expressive arts.
I loved singing and dancing.
I loved art and I really wantedto study art at university, but
my parents felt that wasn'tsomething that would help me get
into a career with a paid jobwhen I left university and they
would say follow those sportingand expressive art dreams and

(05:28):
passions of yours as a hobby ifyou like, and that's
unfortunately.
That was something that I hadto accept and I went on to study
economics, business,mathematics, which I loved as
well.
I absolutely loved thosesubjects and so I went off to
study at Nottingham Universityand just thoroughly enjoyed my
time.
For me it was leaving London wasa big deal.

(05:49):
For me.
Going to Nottingham it wassomething that for me it was
like leaving the country.
At that time I was part of avery loving family, immediate
family, but also an extendedfamily of about 140, 150
relatives.
So going off to Nottingham onmy own, culturally it was very
different and I found itchallenging.

(06:09):
In the first couple of days Iwasn't used to Nottingham and I
remember so vividly looking atthe pavement at one point and
thinking this is so differentfrom the pavement in London and
I don't know why.
But that was something thatreally struck me, that I'm in a
different place, but Ithoroughly enjoyed my time at
Nottingham, made so many friends, got to know so many people
from different walks of life andI just loved it.
I absolutely loved it.
I loved education so much that Icontinued with education when I

(06:30):
came back to London afteruniversity and just the thought
of being in an office and beingan office worker wasn't
something I wanted to do and atthat time I was getting some
great offers from consultancycompanies London Stock Exchange
but it was just something Ididn't want to do.
I wanted to do somethingdifferent.
It was just extraordinary.
I ended up in my teachertraining program at Roehampton

(06:53):
and the most amazing dean inMaryland, wholeness and
phenomenal lady for me, a rolemodel and an enormous
personality, female role modelfor me and just ended up working
and working really hard inschools and just fell in love
and I'll never forget that firstlesson I took.
I walked in and I just fell inlove with teaching with children

(07:13):
, with the classroom environment, and I never looked back
throughout my years of studyingor working in schools.
I've absolutely loved being inschool.
So where did you teach?
So I taught in an interestingconstituency in West London
called Hounslow and at that timewhen I started my teaching
practice.
I taught in Hounslow andBrentford, and Brentford School

(07:35):
for Girls was incrediblydifferent from Hounslow Manor.
In Hounslow Manor we had a hugewhite working class and Gypsy
Roma traveller community at thattime and it was just an
eye-opener Culturally.
I lived in Ealing all my lifein West London but it was a
completely different communitythat we were serving Really
tough community.
But it was extraordinary and Imade some great progress with

(07:56):
the students and the childrenthat I was teaching then.
I'm still in touch with them,would you believe it, and they
have their own businesses nowand they have their own sort of
careers, which is amazing andI'm very proud of them.
And I taught in Brentford,which is a school for girls
Amazing school really, verydifferent, very preppy, actually
very lovely, but both stateschools.
I then went on to take afull-time role at Hounslow Manor

(08:17):
.
I was a classroom teacher.
Within the sort of first year Ibecame head of department.
I've always loved working, lisa.
I've always loved proving moreto myself than anyone else I can
make a difference.
I've always been about changeand impact and sometimes it can
be misconstrued, I think, interms of being competitive or
really ambitious and ruthlesslyambitious.
But it's not really about that.

(08:38):
My motivation is genuinely tomake change and impact and make
better things that I can seethat perhaps are in my control.
So, very quickly promoted tohead of department of the
business economics, mathematicsdepartment, enjoyed myself for
about six years there, left thatschool as a senior leader and
that inquisitive part of menever left me, as I had it as a

(08:59):
child and as a grown up, as ayoung adult.
It still remained with me and Ijust couldn't understand the
state sector, the sort ofprivate sector, and how the
education piece works in the UKwith the government and the
funding, and why some schoolsget more money than others, and
I just wanted to understand thatbetter.
So what better to go and workfor the local government?

(09:21):
So I took on a post withCambridge Education, mott
MacDonald, who was working forthe Department for Education
under the Labour government forbuilding schools for the future,
and I worked there for sixyears as a lead consultant for
education technology andinfrastructure.
And boy did I enjoy myself.
It was just such an amazingexperience and opportunity to
help rebuild, reconstruct andredesign Victorian buildings as

(09:46):
well as new buildings in thesort of area of King's Cross,
islington, all the way up toHolloway and just including all
that area where we had about 40schools, and it was just such an
extraordinary experience todevelop.
I learned about design, Ilearned about architecture,
school architecture.
I learned about community needsand aspirations and how

(10:08):
building and design and colourscan make aspirations come to
life.
It was just an extraordinarytime and I enjoyed that for
about six years.
I then went on to take on a postat a school called Westminster
Academy, which is based in thefifth most deprived constituency
in England but surrounded bythe most expensive areas of

(10:30):
England, so it was a school thatwas in special measures.
It was a very challenging timefor the school, incredibly
difficult.
So I joined that school as asenior leader to support the
head teacher for two years.
I said I would come in and helpus turn the school around.
It was a team of us.
Four of us were going to go toturn the school around and we
did.
Within the first 12 to 18 monthsit became outstanding and we

(10:52):
were very, very happy.
We were over the moon with whatwe were able to do.
It was a lot of hard work, lisa.
We were literally I remember Iwas literally on my knees doing
this work.
It was long hours and it wasn'tjust about hard work in terms
of having to make things happen.
It was about actually inspiringcommunities in changing the
culture, and as cultural changeis incredibly difficult.

(11:14):
You can modify buildings, youcan modify schemes of work and
so on, but to make peoplegenuinely believe that this can
be done, it is possible, there'sno miracle here.
We've just got to reallybelieve and get on with the job
and work hard and practice,practice, practice.
So your performance isoutstanding.
We did that with the children,and the children were from two
very high profile estates.

(11:36):
There was gang warfare, therewas drugs, there was violence,
there was knife crime.
And to be working in that kindof melting pot with children
from refugee communities as well.
So it was a real melting pot,but it was extraordinary.
It was an extraordinary schooland an extraordinary community
and it still is sponsored by theDangor family and their sort of

(11:56):
genealogy was very much asrefugees into the United Kingdom
as well.
So that whole sort of connectionof the heritage, of why this
school was sponsored by theDangor family, who were Jewish
refugees from Baghdad many yearsago and wanted to give back,
would become incrediblysuccessful in the United Kingdom
, wanted to give back to acommunity that they lived in
through the means of a singlesponsored academy, the

(12:18):
Westminster Academy.
It was just extraordinary andit was like.
I have such fond memories ofthat time.
And after the two years I wasasked to become associate
principal and then after that, Ithink it took another year and
I was asked to become principalof that school and I just felt
so blessed.
You know, the children therewere phenomenal.
They came from such difficultbackgrounds and they were my

(12:40):
role models.
They inspired me, theychallenged me, they made me want
to do better for the school,but they also made me want to do
a lot more good for the world,I mean they were just
extraordinary children.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
So how did you turn?
I know you had a team with you,but how did you turn that
school around in 18 months?
And the reason I ask is Iworked in challenging schools in
Enfield, in Haringey inWalthamstow.
That type of turnaround isremarkable.
How did you guys do it?
What did you do?

Speaker 3 (13:09):
So the first thing, I mean that's fascinating, lisa,
and congratulations, becausethose areas I know are
incredibly challenging andincredibly great areas, great
people, incredibly challengingcontext.
It was about the simple thingslike the process, the people
just making sure the performancewas being accounted for and was
monitored, regularly monitored.
So, in terms of the processes,we made sure that the schemes of

(13:32):
work, the curriculum planning,was done to a level that in
which allowed children toactually be able to progress
every lesson, rather than everyterm or every year.
You could see the progress thatchildren were making Any one
lesson.
I remember in one of my firstmeetings with the staff, I made
it very clear and people wouldknow this, and I'm not saying
they weren't necessarily doingthis, but it was about saying

(13:53):
that in every lesson, everychild, regardless of starting
point, must make progress,otherwise what is the value of
them coming to school?
We had a huge attendanceproblem and that was because
children were coming to schooland possibly thinking what's the
point?
I'm not really gaining anything, I'm not meeting the sort of
requirements that I should be.
So that was really importantthat not only do the children
make progress, but they feelthey're making progress, they

(14:14):
understand they're makingprogress.
So it was almost like puttingin a sense of success for each
child in every moment they spentat Westminster Academy.
The parent who themselves wereat that time it's probably no
longer the case, but at thattime were illiterate refugees
themselves struggling with homecontext and just settling in
making sure that they were onboard by making sure they

(14:37):
understood what was required andwhy the children needed to be
at school.
You know, lisa, this will notbe unfamiliar to you, I'm sure
because of the context you'veworked at.
We would go to the children'shomes if they didn't turn up to
school, knock on the door.
You need to be in school.
Come on, let's go to school andhave like a school bus with us
or an Uber, etc.
We would do that.
We would do that because it wasimportant that children

(14:58):
understood that we cared, and Ithink that was the most
important thing.
I remember Sir ProfessorBrighouse, who was a mentor of
mine.
God bless him.
He would say to me that youknow, simon, the biggest thing
you can do is you can givechildren hope.
And where does hope come from?
Hope comes from yourenvironment.
Hope comes from the people thatare around you.
Hope comes from believing inchildren believing in people.

(15:20):
Hope comes from feelingconfident, feeling secure in
where you are, and so that was amantra I would always use with
everybody Give the children thehope.
Understand that.
These children, lisa, but thereare so many people like me, like

(15:45):
yourself, who have contributedto society and the global
platform through being amazingteachers and head teachers and
senior leaders in these areas,in these challenging areas, and
the biggest thing we've beenable to do, I think more so than
the academic success I mean wewere in the top 10 schools in
the United Kingdom with ouroutcomes and our performance
measures in terms of value addbut we can give them hope and we

(16:08):
can allow them to see thatthere's a huge world out there
and there is a space for you anda place for you in that world.
You've just got to own it.
You've got to look insideyourself and believe that there
is a space for you and go andown it.
And that was one of the thingswe did with the children.
And as soon as we had thechildren on side, as soon as the
children wanted to be able tomake a difference for themselves
, our attendance figures went onup.

(16:29):
And, of course, if you'reattending, you're in school.
If you're in school and you'relearning and you're progressing,
automatically your results willstart to go up.
And we were fortunate at thattime.
It was very mechanical as well.
We needed to get them thebasics English and maths and
science etc.
And we were able to dissect thecurricula and the criterion to
be able to achieve passes andgood passes and strong passes.

(16:52):
And why we needed to bemechanical in those first couple
of months was because we neededto show the children hope is
great and that's what we need,but we also needed to show them
that they could achieve.
And once we got those results inthat first year which was
extraordinary and I rememberthat night I was in charge of
curriculum assessment and data,so I would download all the
results and check what'shappening at midnight and then

(17:14):
have to call my principal andsay we did it.
And I remember that night,before I downloaded the results,
I prayed and I prayed for thecohort and said please, god,
make sure they're successful,because it's really important,
not for them, it was importantfor the community and the school
.
We needed to show the communityin the school if you work hard
and you turn up, you will getthe outcomes.
And once that happened it wasjust literally contagious.

(17:35):
We couldn't stop it because wehad proved that we could do it.
This school, this community,after so many years, can do it.
And suddenly it just went onand it was just contagious and
we were never not successfulafter that brilliant.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
I actually like the fact that you had to go back to
basics, because sometimes it'sgood to say, oh, we checked all
the things and we did all thehigher level things.
But just going back to basicsand being very mechanical being
traditional nowadays is whatthey call it.
Making sure you get that mathin, you get that English in, you
make sure that the studentshave that basic grounding before

(18:10):
you add all the flowery bits ontop.
So I loved that.
How did you then move from thatschool to Dubai and to GEMS?
How did that transition takeplace?

Speaker 3 (18:22):
So that's really interesting.
When I was in London, I was agovernor of some private schools
as well, and the reason why Iwanted to be a governor of
private schools was because Iwanted to see what it was that
they were doing and what could Ido better for my school.
So I've always been involved incharity.
Lisa, my mother, was a verycharitable person and my father
is also, but my mother actedmore so on the charitable
endeavors and so I am a founderand a trustee of the Shehnaz

(18:47):
Foundation, which is a charitynamed after my mother, shehnaz,
and unfortunately she passedaway.
So the charity very much does alot of good work in her name
and we build schools.
We have three aims in ourcharitable endeavour.
The first aim is looking afterchildren who don't have access
to education across the globe,in particular girls education.
They're very keen on that andwe have schools across the globe
, predominantly in India,pakistan, sudan, etc.

(19:10):
Boys can attend as well, butit's predominantly for girls
education.
Second aim is women'sempowerment Incredibly important
to look after the women in theworld, I think, especially those
that are in some way or shapevictims of violence, domestic
violence, mental health issues,refugee mothers.
So we very much support womenwho need a bit of support in

(19:32):
terms of their own mental health, but also employability, skill
sets etc.
And our third aim I amreligious, I'm Muslim.
We build mosques and synagoguesand churches and mandirs and
gudwaras where there aren't anyold mosques and synagogues and
churches and mandirs andgudwaras where there aren't any,
so that there's a place forworship for everybody where we
can reach.
But also we help prepare peoplethat have passed away and if

(19:54):
their families don't have anymoney to cremate or bury, we
support them with that.
So those are our three aims.
Now I had heard of Mr SunnyVarki.
Of course I'd heard of GEMS,but I had heard of Mr Sunny
Varki with the Varki Foundationand the great work that his
philanthropic arm takes, a hugeinvolvement and focus on in
terms of societal deprivationand support for education in
particular.
And when we met we talked a lotabout charity etc.

(20:17):
And he had said to me look,come and work for GEMS Education
in Dubai.
It's close to the countriesthat you support.
So I go out to these countriesmyself and set up the schools
for my charity and I do like tosupport my charities through my
own income and in England I wasgetting a great income, as you
would, as a head teacher inLondon, but of course, dubai

(20:38):
would be able to afford me abetter income, tax free, which
would be able to support mycharities even more.
So where I was able to build afew schools in London, I can
build many more being employedin a place like Dubai.
That's not to say that I don'tenjoy what I do and I don't.
You know I absolutely love GEMSeducation.
I'm very proud to be a memberof GEMS education.
I understand all the work thatwe do in our philanthropic arm,

(21:01):
but it was genuinely that waswhat really interested me about
Dubai being able to help mycharity.
And then when GEMS but I wasstill thinking about it, but
when GEMS World Academy came upas a proposition, I just
couldn't say no.
It was a school that was aflagship school in terms of the
International Baccalaureate.
Was it doing as well as itcould have been at that time?
Possibly no.

(21:22):
Covid was coming in.
What a challenge, what anextraordinary opportunity to
lead the flagship school for theGEMS education portfolio.
I just couldn't say no.
So here I am.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah, and GEMS World talk to me about it.
What kind of a school is it?

Speaker 3 (21:40):
Oh, wow.
So GEMS World Academy it is adream school, honestly.
It's an internationalbaccalaureate school.
We are an all-through school.
We have a nursery, which isdelightful.
We have a PYP program, an MYPprogram, a career-related
program and a diploma program.
So we have all four programs inthe school.
We are a world school.

(22:00):
We are a school with over 120different nationalities and each
nationality is a minority, andyou won't find that in most
schools.
In most schools, you have apredominant nationality group,
but you do have over 100nationalities.
It's the nature of the UAE, Ibelieve, in particular in Dubai.
But our school, everynationality is a minority.
So you can imagine 120nationalities with all

(22:20):
nationalities 4%, 5% and that'sit.
Maybe 6% where there isconflict but where children have
come in from conflict areas.
But it's really like a miniUnited Nation.
Everybody is different here andthat just makes for such an
amazing place, because nobodyfeels left out, because
everybody's different, and soyou see uniqueness in all of our

(22:41):
children.
Our children are kind and humble.
They're so inquisitive, theywant to challenge everything,
which is a true IB learner.
I believe they're globalcitizens in that they want to
change the world, they want todo better for the world and
they're incredibly academic aswell.
So it's a place where there issomething for everybody, and the
nicest thing about Jem's WorldAcademy is that we are an
inclusive school, so we do notselect.

(23:02):
The nicest thing about GemswellAcademy is that we are an
inclusive school, so we do notselect.
If we have spaces and you wantto come to our school, you are
most welcome and we will lookafter you and, as a result, we
have a real comprehensive intake, if you like, and our children
are so kind to each other.
Whether you are gifted andtalented, special educational
needs, eal, any behavioralproblems, you're all included in

(23:22):
our community.
It's just so delightful, and yousee it at lunchtime, you see it
at break time, you see it whensomebody is not doing quite so
well in their trials afterschool.
You just see the way in whichchildren behave and their
attitude.
It's just extraordinary and forme, it's one of the best places
on the planet.
I love being at GemsworldAcademy.
I love being in my office.
I have windows in my officewhere all the children can see

(23:44):
me and I can see them, and nomatter what's happening in the
world and a lot is happening, asyou know, in the world today,
which is not great, but thechildren just really lift your
spirits and they make yourealize that tomorrow is going
to be a better day, regardlessof what's happening today.
So it's an exquisite place.
Our teachers are second to none.
They are passionate, they arecaring, they know their children

(24:09):
, they care about the children'sprogress.
One of the things that wepromise our parents when they
join Gemsworld Academy or whenthey return to Gemsworld Academy
after the summer break is thatwe will always keep your
children safe, secure andsuccessful.
And the safety is all aboutensuring that there is no sort
of nasty behavior.
Children will be mischievousand it's their right to be.
They're of that age and theymust be actually but not being
sort of racist or discriminatoryor horrible to someone so you

(24:32):
hurt their heart and you hurttheir feelings.
That is something we don'taccept.
So safety is all about that.
We promise that they'll besecure, and secure is all about
confidence.
I want my children to beconfident.
I want them to walk into theschool and say to me Dr Rana, I
didn't enjoy this lessonyesterday.
Or, dr Rana, I think thatsports field should be a
different color.
Or I think we should have adifferent menu for lunch.
They need to have thatconfidence because every single

(24:54):
child matters.
Their needs, their wants, theirdesires, their aspirations and
their hopes they all matter.
Their fears matter too, becausefear is a good thing, it's not
a bad thing.
But we want our children toexpress their fears so we can
help them navigate and learn howto combat these fears.
And then success is veryimportant For me.
The more successful you are interms of academics, the more

(25:15):
doors will open for you.
So it's not the end sort ofgoal to be successful.
It's just a medium or a methodto have lots of options and
opportunities.
So I always say to childrenyou've got to be successful is
just a medium or a method tohave lots of options and
opportunities.
So I always say to childrenyou've got to be successful too.
But you can only be successfulif you are safe and secure,
because without that, as youknow, as adults, you're not
feeling safe.
If you're not feeling secure inyour workplace or at home,
you're very unlikely to besuccessful.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, Because I do quite a lot of school tours.
I go around, I look atdifferent schools.
If I come into GEMS WorldAcademy, what am I likely to see
?

Speaker 3 (25:48):
Well, you're likely to see a lot.
What you're likely to feel isthat you don't want to leave,
but what you're likely to seeand I would absolutely love to
be delighted to host a visit foryou, lisa, whenever you're
ready what you will see is youwill see this bustling community
where there's just so manypeople everywhere, and the

(26:09):
people are different shapes andsizes, talking about different
things, and the children arecackling and they're in groups
and they're either hugging orsinging happy birthday to
somebody, or they're wanting tofind out where they can go for
homework club, or they'rewanting to speed off to the
athletics practice.
They're talking to theirteachers, they're talking to
parents, they're talking to thesupport staff.
You'll see everybody in acommunity that is here for one

(26:29):
reason and one reason only, andthat is to make sure that our
children feel safe, secure andsuccessful.
And you'll see everybody doingthat, whether it's a security
guard at the gate, whether it'smyself standing at the door
welcoming children in at thestart of the day or bidding them
farewell at the end of the day.
It's a bustling community.
There's lots of people and lotsof things going on and you know
there's over sort of at any onepoint at the start of the day

(26:52):
or the end of the day, we haveover 3,500 children
approximately and parents andstaff going somewhere doing
something.
It's very busy.
It's very busy, but it's veryhappy.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
I like that.
I got that nice picture.
I love a humming school.
When you go in you hear thathum.
It's a happy hum of busy people, busy students doing and being
the best they can be in thatspace.
I love that.

Speaker 3 (27:16):
Absolutely.
And, lisa, you know, one thingI've never liked is silent
corridors.
I've been an inspector and wewould have you would see these
things like there's a line inthe corridor and you've got to
stay on your right, or you'vegot to stay on your left and
you've got to be absolutelyquiet, silently, walking to your
next lesson.
I can't think of somethinganything worse.
It's dreadful.
The cackle of children laughingand telling someone what they

(27:36):
did and just enjoying themselvesin the corridors.
I just love it, like you said,that humming, that buzz, that
noise of children, and if Ican't hear it, I think
something's wrong, something'snot quite right and I want to
hear that noise Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah for sure.
I want to turn the podcast alittle bit because, based on the
first half, you are extremelybusy and very driven and very
focused, but that can't be allthere is to you, dr Sama.
You have to have got a side toyou that is a little bit more
chilled, a little bit morerelaxed, a little bit more you.

(28:14):
What do you do when you're notsitting at that desk, when
you're not in school, when youdon't have to be on?
What do you do to chill out?

Speaker 3 (28:23):
Interesting.
So I swim, I walk.
I love music, lisa.
I love all types of music, youname it, and I just love it.
I love to dance, I really lovedancing.
So you know, whether it's R&B,hip hop, whether it's a
classical music, a bit of, youknow, soka, bhangra, bollywood,

(28:45):
you name it.
I just love music and I love todance.
I don't know if others aroundme would say that it's a good
thing that I dance, but in myhead I'm a great dancer, I
absolutely love it, and most ofthe time you'll find me even at
home.
If I'm getting early in themorning, I'll be dancing around.
I always have music on, whetherI'm working, whether I'm
getting ready for work in thecar.

(29:05):
I always have music on.
It really relaxes me.
Love swimming, love running,love walking, love biking.
I'm not a gym person.
I wouldn't go to the extent tosay that I don't like the word
hate and I never use it, butwith the gym I could use that
word.
I just can't be in a closedspace doing something I just

(29:29):
don't.
I don't get that.
But it's not for me, I do, I do.
One of the things I absolutelylove is being around friends.
I have some really good friends.
When I came to Dubai I didn'tknow anybody in Dubai and I've
made some good friends at leastfive really good friends who I
really enjoy spending time with,having lunch, having dinner.
I love food.
I love to cook, but more so Ilove to eat, and again, all
types of food.
I am a vegetarian, but I dolove all types of food.

(29:51):
I'm a really big fan of Asianfood and I enjoy it.
That's how I relax.
It's taken me a long time toactually accept that.
Well, not accept, I suppose,more so to say out loud that I
love working, and I love working24 seven.
I never stopped working, andbefore, when I was younger, I
used to feel a littleembarrassed about it, like it

(30:12):
wasn't a good thing.
So sometimes, lisa, I would sayto people if I was working and
say what are you doing?
Oh, I'm just relaxing.
But I wouldn't let them know Iwas working because I used to
feel like they mustn't think I'mworking, because it just
doesn't look good.
But now I'm of an age, it'sjust like I love it.
I just love working.
So that is something that Ienjoy doing.
I always find something to do.
Even if it's all done, there'salways something to do.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
Let the record show that Dr Salma likes Soka.
Who are you listening to?

Speaker 3 (30:48):
Because I'm like that .
One threw me.
You know, I love Soka becauseI've spent a lot of my younger
years in visiting lots ofdifferent areas of the world and
I've got some very, very goodfriends in Antigua and Trinidad.
And yes, I know, Lisa, I've gotsome very good DJ friends in
Tristan and Tobago.
And I know I don't know if thisis the right forum to be.
We love Soka too, don't worry.
No, but you do you like Socatoo?
Did you just say?

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Yes, I do.
I am Caribbean.
I love Soca and reggae music.
Let the record show.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
But I love, I love reggae music.
I love Bob Marley's a great youknow somebody in terms of his
whole history and I learned alot about, for example, Bob
Marley in my younger years whenI used to go to the Antigua
Carnival and in terms of I don'tknow, it's music.
I think, yeah, music is justfor me, it's a way of my, it's

(31:37):
about my well-being with music.
I just love music and I lovethe history behind music.
I love Dolly Parton, I love Kez, I love Bob Dylan, I love Bob
Marley, I just love music.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
I know I really do believe you love Soka because
Kez and the band, so I know youknow Soka.
All right, awesome.
So, in terms of travel, becauseyou talk about your charities
and I'm very fascinated by that,we might need to talk about
that offline.
When it comes to travel, wherehave you been?
That's really been so specialthat you'd love to keep going.

Speaker 3 (32:07):
So my roots are really interesting.
My father was born in India,moved to Pakistan.
When the partition happened hewas a day old or very young, and
he spent all most of his life,a majority of his life, in the
United Kingdom, mother fromSaudi Arabia.
So I really enjoy going toPakistan, I have to admit.
But when I say Pakistan I meanthe very challenging areas of
Pakistan where there's a lot ofdeprivation and where I can make

(32:30):
a difference.
You know, lisa, it's reallyinteresting.
Sometimes you can imagine inthis role and through the sort
of experiences I will have hadthrough my life or not you may
not be able to imagine, butchallenges and difficulties are
something that I'm used to andwhen I started at Gemsworld
Academy it was a turnaroundproject and when I started it I

(32:50):
had a very tough first year,maybe a tough year and a half at
Gemsworld Academy intransitioning not personally,
professionally, and COVID wasdry and I had come into a school
where there was a certaincontext and a certain
expectation and I was comingfrom a different context and
expectation and of course Iunderstood that this needed to
marry well together and I neededto appreciate this was

(33:12):
different and I was coming froma very highly successful career
myself in the United Kingdom andEurope.
I sat on the heads IB forum fornearly seven years and I was
doing things and I workedincredibly hard for these things
.
So it wasn't like it was, itjust landed in my lap.
I had worked incredibly hard.
So I had a career, I had areputation and I came here with

(33:32):
big hopes and dreams about how Icould support GEMS education
through GEMS World Academy andmy charities.
And it was a tough start.
It was an incredibly toughstart and I remember people used
to say to me how are you coping?
This is really quite something.
There was some really quiteawful moments, actually, and I'd
never experienced anything likethat in my entire career or in
my entire life, and I remembersaying to them that I visited

(33:55):
parts of Pakistan through mycharity work.
When I see what some childrenthe age of three are going
through no clothes, no shoes, nofamily, no food and just left
to their own devices in this bigwide world what is it?
When somebody perhaps isn'tappreciating the hard work I'm
putting in and can't see it?
I can handle that and I thinkthose things taught me so much.

(34:18):
So those places taught me a lot.
Those places taught me how tomanage my own expectations and
sometimes my own wants, needsand desires, and it just made me
a stronger person.
And that was early sort ofadulthood that I learned those
lessons and they've stayed withme for a very long time.
So my favourite place, I wouldsay, to visit at the moment is
definitely Pakistan.
I love going there and meetingpeople and helping to impact

(34:42):
communities and learning myselffrom them.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yeah, I love that, because someone would have
probably said Maldives orsomewhere, but you took
somewhere.
That actually teaches you thatwhat you're doing makes a
difference and that it's notalways about the glitz and the
glam.
So I really like that.
In terms of the charity workthat you do, is it that you go
alongside governmentalorganisations already in place

(35:08):
in those countries, or do you goin and try to set up all new
infrastructure?
How does it work?
I'm very fascinated by that, bythe way.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
Thank you so much and I really appreciate your
fascination, because it'simportant to know that any one
person can make a difference inthe world and you don't need to
have a huge corporation backingyou when you're doing these
things.
Some models that we use are NGOpartnerships with NGOs.
Some partnerships that we haveare with the government, but
predominantly, what I like to dois it's a model that

(35:36):
incorporates all three verticalsof the charity, if you like.
So we find a place in a countrythat really needs a school or
an orphanage, and we thenpurchase the land, or we rent
the land or the land is donatedto us, depending on who owns the
land, and if we purchase theland, we purchase in the name of
God, because you can do that.
There's a legal sort ofmethodology to do that in

(35:58):
Pakistan in particular and thenwe build a school on that land
and then we ensure that thegovernance of that school is
held in the hands of some reallyamazing women who feel that
actually all their job is to bea housewife and they don't
really want to be out and aboutin the community and perhaps
they need a bit of help beingpart of the community.

(36:19):
So we bring them on and wetrain them.
So I very much govern the wholething and do all the accounts
and look after the entireproject.
Yes, for the first six monthsis a model that I've tried and
tested, and I do have to mentionKPMG in the UK, who helped me
set this model up, and DavidDangle, my previous sponsor at
the Excel Arts Foundation, whoabsolutely was wonderful in

(36:39):
setting up the charity andshowing me how to put these
models together.
And so we would set this schoolup, we would do all the
recruitment.
I do the teacher training, Iemploy the members of staff and
now we're not talking about1000s of members of staff, we're
talking about maybe 20 membersof staff per school and we would
get the governance set up inthe form of the local community,

(36:59):
in particular women, and justmonitor them very closely for
the first six months to a year,and once we know they're okay,
we'll let it go, but thefinances I look after.
So that's how we run theschools when there are
straightforward partnershipswith NGOs we just give them the
donation they put a bid in andwe will support their schools.
So, for example, we've got thisamazing project under the name
of Karanalia in Chennai in Indiaand this is a project for

(37:21):
street children of school age,predominantly girls, but there
are some boys as well, and Ithink there are about 580 street
children approximately who arebeing educated through the arts
and football, sport, but hygieneas well, looking after yourself
, being clean, etc.
Because of disease and food andnutrition, etc.
All of those things are taughtthrough sport, expressive,

(37:43):
expressive arts, fashion, etc.
Including very basic Englishand maths, literacy and numeracy
, and what we see in the reportsfrom a project like that is the
ramification of this project ishaving a ripple effect on the
people at home.
So the elder brothers andsisters, the mums and dads,
they're learning how to brushtheir teeth properly, they're
learning how to be clean andhygienic, and these are really

(38:05):
important things for ourcommunities, especially street
communities.
So through that project it'sone project it impacts about
3,000 people in the streets ofIndia, which is amazing.
So that's another model.
And then we have models wherewe partner with some very, very
well-to-do families who willsupport with the school and fund
the school and help manage theschool with me, but ultimately I

(38:25):
look after all the governancein terms of the finances and the
human resources.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
You are blowing my mind, saima.
You are literally blowing mymind.
I do not know how you do all ofthat.
So you're leading GEMS WorldAcademy and then you've
currently been promoted toDeputy CEO of GEMS Education
Global.
What are you excited about forthat new role?

Speaker 3 (38:53):
I'm excited about the entire role itself.
So I used to be Chief EducationOfficer at GEMS Education
Global and so I looked afterthat role for two years with a
phenomenal group of senior vicepresidents Many of you who
you've had on your podcast.
Lisa looked after the educationstrategy for two years and it's
the final year of the strategynow and the senior vice
presidents will implement thatwith our new chief education

(39:15):
officer.
So I've been promoted recentlyas deputy CEO and for that it's
the strategic elements whichI've been incredibly proud to be
a part of previously over thelast two years.
But it's just the additionalresponsibilities of operational
management, the financialoversight of the entire business
plan, and we've just gone intoa new investment with Brookfield

(39:37):
, and so it's exciting times forus here at GEMS Education.
Looking after business growthand development.
That's the thing I'm mostinterested, because I was always
involved in the financialoversight and the operational
oversight and also the strategicleadership and planning.
But it's actually the growth,the business growth and
development piece that excitesme.
Going to new markets, growingour portfolio, looking at the

(39:58):
new models of schools that wecould have, what they look like,
the new clientele that we couldserve these things are really
interesting and exciting for me.
I'm very, very excited aboutworking with the founder, mr
Sunny Varki, and with the CEO,mr Dino Varki, and my peer, jay
Varki, who's also Deputy CEO, inentering new markets, looking

(40:19):
at new products, new types ofschools that we could bring into
the UAE and across this region.
Those are the things thatreally excite me.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
I am looking forward to following the work that you
will do in this role.
I know you're going to bejoined by another fantastic
female out of the United Kingdom.
I don't think I'm allowed tosay her name just yet, but let's
just put it that we share thesame name and I'm excited to see
what she will bring to GEMS aswell.
I wanted to talk to you alittle bit about women in

(40:50):
leadership, and that's somethingI'm very passionate about.
Unfortunately, you won't beable to join us at the Women in
Leadership Summit on the 28th ofSeptember, but while I have you
on the podcast September butwhile I have you on the podcast
talk to me about what you thinkare some of the barriers that
are stopping women fromascending to the heights that
maybe you have, and even further.

Speaker 3 (41:12):
Yeah, I mean, what a great topic.
I think.
Look, women in educationalleadership face huge,
significant challenges, and it'snot just about societal issues
or gender inequality.
There's some hugelycompromising experiences that
women in leadership, inparticular in education, face,
and I have had some experiencesof those compromising challenges

(41:35):
and barriers.
When you look at education,we're vastly underrepresented
women.
That is, you look at theteaching profession, women are
all over the teaching profession.
That is, you look at theteaching profession, women are
all over the teaching profession.
But when you look at the actualsort of executive roles, you
don't see as many women as youwould.
I think.
I don't know, but I think thestatistics in terms of
international leaders we'd haveto check this is around 28 to 30

(41:56):
percent, maybe 32 percent, 28to 32, I don't know.
But that's not good.
You know, those numbers pointto a glaring disparity between
men and women, in particularwhen the work of schools is very
much done by women in terms ofteaching, fraternity.
So when you look at the highestlevels of leadership in
education, you don't see abalanced number of female

(42:17):
leaders there.
Now, there are a number ofreasons for that.
There are obstacles that weourselves sometimes place in
front of ourselves.
There are a number of reasonsfor that.
There are obstacles that weourselves sometimes place in
front of ourselves.
There are so many femaleleaders that are phenomenal and
they don't want to putthemselves into that position
for a number of reasons, mainlybecause they feel they can't do
it.
But when I speak to femaleleaders that come to me with

(42:38):
wanting advice or guidance aboutthe next move or whether they
should step into leadership, Isay absolutely, you should,
absolutely.
I mean women are the bestleaders.
I'm sorry, we just are the bestleaders, we're just the best
people, but we are the bestleaders, and I think women
sometimes undermine themselves.
I think there is also theemotional aspect of having this
connection to home and to familyand their sort of role and I

(43:01):
don't think many people say thatand I think we need to publicly
accept that sometimes a veryheavy responsibility that women
carry with themselves.
I have heard many, manycolleagues talk about neglecting
home or not being with theirchildren when they need to.
Very rarely do I hear my malecounterparts or my male
colleagues speak such phrasesand such sentences.

(43:22):
So I think it's these things aswell.
I think women are alsofrequently perceived as too
emotional, and I've heard this.
I've heard in meetings wherepeople are talking.
A male member of the team doesor says something.
It's very much, it's assertive,and they know what they're
doing and they've got theexperience.
They know exactly what needs tohappen here.
But a female does it and she'stoo emotional or she just

(43:44):
doesn't get it, and I've heardit said about women and I've
heard it said about myself andthese sorts of things.
We need the male counterparts,our male counterparts, to
support and step up as much asour female counterparts.
And I think sometimes biases inthe workplace create
environments whereby it's verydifficult to navigate the
obstacles, because you don'talways have to remove the

(44:05):
obstacles.
I believe Sometimes you justneed to learn how to navigate
those obstacles, and I thinksometimes the environment
doesn't allow you to be able todo such things.
Sometimes and I have to becareful how I say this sometimes
the complexity is such thatfemale leaders become obstacles
for other female leaders, andthat makes me very sad when I

(44:26):
see that, because it's not assimple as saying we should be
supporting each other.
We should be genuinely excitedand proud of our female leaders
and our female counterparts andwe should be not just supporting
them, but we should beabsolutely championing them and
I think sometimes and again I'veexperienced this, not
personally, but I should beabsolutely championing them.
And I think sometimes and I'veagain I've experienced this, not
personally, but I've seen thishappen when women unfortunately

(44:49):
become those obstacles for otherwomen, and I think we have to
really reflect on that and stopdoing it.
We have to support each otherand this is not a gender fight
or anything like that, it's menagainst women or anything like
that, but it's more about that.
There is a societal issue here.
There is, and it is complex,it's not straightforward,
because within the female sortof proposition, you also have

(45:09):
culture, then you have religion,then you might have class and
you might have race and youmight have.
There's a lot of things at playhere.
But if we can just be able tochampion each other and support
each other through with careerdevelopment, through mentoring,
how many mentors do we have thatare female?
I, lisa, will you believe, havehad zero female mentors In my
life.
I've had five or six phenomenalmentors and they've all been

(45:34):
male.
And it's about where are thesefemale mentors?
I didn't have access to anybody, and I'm sure today I would
have access.
But when I was early on in mycareer.
They just didn't exist.
So we've got to be able toensure that we're not excluding
the female role model from thementorship, the coaching, the
leadership piece I think, theusual stuff the hiring processes
, et cetera.
They all need to be able tolook carefully at reasons of
family, reasons of recruitment,looking at why women's pay is

(45:57):
not equal still today.
There are lots of barriers,which are both external and
internal.
I think cultural and societalexpectations play a significant
role and they change dependingon the context, of course, in
which you are.
So it's very different here inthe UAE and in this region for
me, as a female, compared towhat it was like in the United

(46:18):
Kingdom as a female, compared towhat it's like in Pakistan or
Saudi Arabia or India, etc.
As a female.
And I think these things, theseplaces, are sometimes
entrenched with genderstereotypes which genuinely
undervalue women's abilities asleaders.
And I think it's places likethe UAE where you have the
regulators and the rulers reallyempowering women by celebrating

(46:39):
women and really endorsingwomen in leadership, but also
women as women, and I think thatneeds to be ingrained in
everything we do across society,not just a context or a country
, but across the global society,and I think we need to allow
women to be masculine leadershiprole models as well as feminine
leadership role models.
I think it's incrediblyimportant.

(47:00):
I think it does requireproactive, intentional approach
and not accidental approach.
I think it's incrediblyimportant that we have intent
and it's not about positivelydiscriminating, but it's about
intentional intent to make surethat women are treated equally
but are also celebrated for whothey are, so our children see
our women as strong, vibrantleaders in society, not just in

(47:24):
the workplace, but at home aswell.
I was really wanting to sharewith you that when I was younger
, my mother used to say I camefrom a culture that if you're
first born and your familywasn't a boy, it wasn't bad, but
it was great that you had achild and a healthy child.
This was great.
But if your second born was nota boy and was a daughter after
your first born, who was thedaughter?

(47:45):
People say, oh, it's not a boy,because the boy would continue
the family name, etc.
Etc.
That was a cultural backgroundI came from and I remember I
used to say to my mother because, of course, I was a second
daughter born to my parents Iwould say to my mother is it
wrong to be born as a woman?
Nobody ever said anything to me, but it was just something I
knew and I was aware of as I wasgrowing up.

(48:06):
And my mother used to say to meyou are so incredibly fortunate
, you are so incredibly blessedto be born a woman, a woman.
Being born a woman meansembodying strength and
resilience, embodying empathy,embodying unequivocal power to
do anything you want to, andit's a privilege.
And embrace it, saima.
Embrace that you're a woman.
You can do absolutely anything.

(48:28):
Look at all the women aroundyou.
A woman is a source of pride.
Feel lucky that you carry thisidentity and always carry it
with so much grace, so muchdetermination, so much
resilience that you're going toimpact and change the world.
That's what women do every day.
She used to say to me thegreatest gift that God can give
you is to be born a woman.

(48:49):
And my mother I mean it gives megoosebumps now thinking of it
and she used to say think aboutit.
And, as I said, my mother wasfrom a very, very affluent and
successful family.
She was a teacher and she was ahousewife and she was a mother.
And she used to say to me, ifyou think about it, being a
mother is one of the mosthonourable of careers.
If you think about it, youserve, and not in the way serve,

(49:11):
but you serve your children,you serve your family, you serve
your country, because you arecreating amazing global citizens
by being a mother, being ahousewife.
The world you serve by being amother.
And she used to say truly andnow I genuinely believe this by
God, being born a woman is trulymagical, it's the best thing,

(49:31):
and I think we just need toembrace this and make sure our
children, our partners, ourhusbands, our parents, everybody
understands just being a womanis an amazing thing.
Embrace it and just go for it.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
Yeah, wow, I'm going to clip that piece and that's
just going to be like a minipodcast on its own to empower
women Phenomenal your mothersounded like she was an amazing
human being because to come froma culture where there are
little innuendos about the valueplaced on the lives of girls.

(50:05):
But for her to really brushthat aside and empower you in
that way is phenomenal, becauseshe could have internalized that
and gone oh yeah, we're justwomen.
No, instead she flipped that onits head and said no, to be
born a woman is to be bornpowerful.
Love, love, loved that, lovedthat so much.

(50:25):
I have one last question foryou, which takes us back to
education and just looking at itwith a global lens.
What are you excited about asyou look towards the future of
education globally?

Speaker 3 (50:41):
So I think what I'm most excited about, when I look
at what's happened today andwhat the future holds for our
children, is this genuinelandscape which allows every
child because I don't thinkwe've actually got it right for
every child a child withcerebral palsy, a child who is
gifted and talented, a child whodoesn't speak much English but
is incredibly bright atperforming arts.

(51:02):
I look forward to a landscapeand you can see the assessment
and inspection regime movingtowards this.
I look through a landscape ofeducation that really puts at
the heart and I think you'vesaid this at the start of our
conversation that puts at theheart of education well-being
and looks at well-being as notthe end product and not as
mental health and not as ameditation, but looks at

(51:25):
well-being in making sure thatwhen children are being educated
, they absolutely understandthat it is not about the public
examinations or the destinations, quite frankly, but it is about
the living experience that youare enjoying today in this place
, as a grade six, as a grade two, as a grade 12 student,
learning about education,learning about knowledge and,

(51:46):
most importantly, learning aboutperspective.
Which perspective are youlooking at this knowledge from?
Because you have one piece ofknowledge and you've got three
different perspectives fromdifferent countries and
different contexts and differentcultures and backgrounds.
It looks different and itsounds different.
It feels different and I'mexcited about the world moving
to that place whereby childrenare so amazingly educated that

(52:07):
they no longer feel conflict isthe way and the solution to
problems, but they actuallyunderstand that perspective is
important to be able to work inharmony.
We have one planet and I lovethat.
Global warming and COP28 in theUAE last year has endorsed an
incredible sense ofresponsibility on all our
children in particular aboutsaving our planet and making

(52:28):
sure we do the best for it.
I love that.
Well-being is something thatpeople are openly talking about
at the moment and I hope theywill continue to.
Technology is great.
I love technology, but I wanttechnology to enhance the
teaching and learning experienceand never to replace it and
never to have thoseconversations about replacing
teachers with robots or AI etc.
So I look forward to alandscape where education is

(52:51):
actually for that purpose toeducate children and not to
train them for the world of workand not to train them so they
end up in the Russell Group orthe Ivy League or wherever else
they want to go, but to actuallymake them so confident as young
adults embarking upon a hugeworld, and they can just be
magical and experience thosemagic moments across the globe,

(53:12):
across every day.
That is what I think thepurpose of education is and
that's what I'm looking forwardto.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
Thank you so much for being on the podcast, Dr Saima.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
Thank you, lisa.
I really enjoyed it.
I could talk and talk but wedon't want that.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
I could listen and listen, but I think we have
really covered a multitude offantastic topics on the podcast
today and I really do hope thatit resonates with our
listenership as much as itresonated with me.
I do wish you all the successin your new role and your
continued success at GEMS WorldAcademy that I hope to visit in
the sometime near future.
Thank you again, thank you.

(53:52):
Thank you, lisa.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
Thank you for listening to the Teach Middle
East podcast.
Visit our websiteteachmiddleeastcom and follow us
on social media.
The links are in the show notes.