October 7, 2024 • 29 mins
So this semester we are focusing on agency. We’re interested in taking a deeper look at the foundational beliefs and ideas that shape our classrooms. One way that we are doing this offline in through a partnership with Dr. Tracy Donahue. You’ll more about her in a minute, as we reshare a conversation with had with her last fall. We’ve never repeated a podcast episode before, but this week felt like the right time as our grant work with Tracy has us researching what education is like outside of Michigan- specifically play. We’ll be traveling with Tracy next week to Iceland to explore several outdoor preschools, Reggio Emilia schools, forest schools, and fully inclusive schools and more. To say that we are excited is an understatement. We’ll take you along for our adventure, sharing updates on social media and longer reflections in upcoming episodes. So, while we’re packing, take a minute to introduce yourself to our colleague Tracy and learn more about why we think Play is foundational to agency and belongs in the classroom.
About the episode: Today we're talking with Dr. Tracy Donohue. Join our guest as they reflect on their professional experiences and how they have prepared them to work with teacher education students who are learning to teach through play. As you listen, we invite you to also reflect on the background you bring to education, how you value play and what you would be willing to investigate to challenge yourself in these areas.
Introduction Music: David Biedenbender
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ashley O'Neil (00:02):
So this semester, we're focusing on agency. We're
interested in taking a deeperlook at the foundational beliefs
and ideas that shape ourclassrooms. One way that we're
doing this offline is through apartnership with Dr Tracy
Donahue. You'll hear more fromher in a minute as we re share a
conversation that we had withher last fall. Now we've never
repeated a podcast episodebefore, but this week felt like
(00:23):
the right time, as our grantwork with Tracy has us
researching what education islike outside of Michigan,
specifically, what does playlook like? We'll be traveling
with Tracy next week to Icelandto explore several outdoor play
preschools, reju Amelia schools,for schools, fully inclusive
schools, and more. To say thatwe're excited is an
(00:44):
understatement. We'll take youalong on our adventure sharing
updates on social media andlonger reflections and upcoming
episodes. So while we'repacking, take a minute to
introduce yourself, to call ourcolleague, Tracy, and learn more
about why we think play isfoundational to agency and
belongs in the classroom.
Tracy Donohue (01:04):
We have this big conversation over and over of it
is not a dichotomy learn versusplay, that actually learning is
play. Okay,
Introduction (01:14):
now we're recording. So welcome to teach
wonder. Welcome to teach wonder,a podcast hosted by Ashley
O'Neill and Julie Cunningham.
Ashley O'Neil (01:36):
My freshman year of college, I had two roommates.
Roommate one had goals of goingpre med. So she was taking zero
writing courses her firstsemester, but had Calc, bio and
chemistry all at the same time.
Roommate, two and I both wantedto be teachers, so we had a
broader array of classes,including history and
communications and Spanish, andwe were both also in this
introductory teacher course. Thebulk of our homework actually
(01:58):
came from that teacher course.
We'd been pretty familiar withschool and had a handle on our
other classes we'd never taughtbefore, and this teacher class
had us in first grade classroomsthe second week, doing 30 minute
lessons on social studies. Soevery week, we were preparing
new lessons for them. I'll neverforget the dichotomy of homework
(02:19):
in our tiny dorm room, soroommate one header stacks of
calc notes and flashcards forbio and a bulletin board of
equations. Roommate two and Iwere using markers on the back
of cereal boxes to make housesfor lesson neighborhoods. You'd
often walk into our room and seeroommate two and I practicing
our lessons with each otherwhile roommate one borrowed our
pencils to color codeflashcards, but you would also
(02:41):
often see roommate two and I onthe couch using those color
coded flashcards to quizroommate one as she colored
streetlamps and stop signs to gowith our cereal box houses. Now,
College definitely became morerigorous for me in that
traditional sense. I'm nostranger to flashcards and late
night study sessions myself androommate one did take an art
class that resulted in hercreating a wire squirrel that
(03:04):
was so intense it affected ourTV signal. But that first
semester of freshman year, thatscene of studying for bio while
lesson planning for first gradeof my roommate coloring while
doing flashcard review, it isone of my strongest memories of
that year, and it ratherperfectly sets the stage for our
conversation. This week, we'reabout to jump into this
interview and spoiler it's aboutlearning and play. This
(03:27):
conversation talks about thetenets of play, why it's vital
for all people, regardless ofour age or our grade. We talk
about how students at CMU arelearning to incorporate play as
teacher educators, and we hearso many thoughtful and helpful
examples of play in theclassroom. But before we do
that, we're starting thisinterview by having our guest
share her background, and we'redoing that because it
(03:49):
illustrates a point that mattersin this conversation. Our
background and history create alens for us and new experiences
and opportunities can sharpen,adjust and filter that lens as
you listen to the experiencesand opportunities that build our
guest professional career, thinkabout your own and how it may
shape the way you are currentlyviewing your classroom and this
(04:10):
interview, here's Julie.
Tracy Donohue (04:13):
So Tracy, if you would please introduce yourself
and tell us a little bit aboutyour background as a faculty
member here. Okay, so my name isTracy Donahue, and I this is my
second year as an assistantprofessor here at Central
Michigan University, and I thinkit would behoove myself to get
tell you like pre Central, ifthat's okay. So I started I had
(04:36):
as a third grade teacher inRaleigh, North Carolina. I've
only ever taught in title onemagnet schools. So I started at
a visual and performing artsschool, teaching third grade,
and we got to teach electives.
So I taught the basic corecurriculum, and then four days a
week, our children actually k5but my electives were three
five. They would switch classes.
(04:58):
They would sign up for electivesand change and. So I taught a
sewing elective, I taught ahistory elective, I taught a
shaping up elective, all kindsof different things. It was
super fun, because you also gotto know kids around the school,
outside of your classroom. Andso in that process, with a good
friend of mine, who we grew upin, teaching together, we got
(05:18):
our masters in readingeducation. I thought I wanted to
be a small group literacyteacher, and we got our masters
at NC State together. And duringthat time, because funding
changes every year, with TitleOne, I became a part time math
coach and part time literacyintervention teacher. So I was
going from teaching small groupkindergarten literacy to fifth
(05:41):
grade classroom math coaching.
And every year it kind ofshifted, and I got to play
within my work in terms of coteaching, everyone is on a
continuum of where they'll beaccepting of that. I worked at
Powell, at that one school forabout 10 years. Ironically,
we're talking about play today.
I've been looking back into myold stomping grounds to share
(06:03):
with a presentation with astudent group here on campus,
and now they are not a visualand performing arts school. They
are building ingenuity throughPlay School, and they're the
only elementary school in thecountry, I think, with that
theme. So I reached out to them,because the assistant principal
is a good a former friend ofmine, and so they have a play
Integration Specialist with herPhD that works on staff. So I
(06:26):
was like, put I just wanted toreconnect with them, so I'm
hoping to talk with her. But Istarted there and worked in some
capacity in instructionalcoaching after my years in third
grade, and realized I reallylike working with adult
learners. And then I moved to adifferent magnet school within
Raleigh to for one year, andthen we moved out of state, but
(06:48):
it was connected with NC State,and it was an engineering magnet
school, and they had allocated,it was a low I've only worked at
low performing schools, but itthey allocated a quarter of
their Race to the Top funds tothe school and clean slate
started all kinds of new things.
I was the interventioncoordinator for that school, so
I worked with the teachers k5and then I was also a literacy
(07:08):
coach with that so during thattime, I also had the opportunity
to teach at a community collegedevelopmental reading. I also
thought I like to dabble. So Iwas like, let me try this again,
working with adult learners,doing a lot of similar things we
do in third grade readingclassrooms with adults. I would
make these adults who some wereolder than me, act out work new
(07:28):
vocabulary words, and I learnedit feels silly, but it's an
element of play in that as well.
We moved for family reasons, toIowa for a couple of years, and
I taught a community collegeclass on developmental reading
there. And then I startedlooking and kind of wanting to
spread my wings a little bit.
And I got a job as a literacyconsultant for the Iowa reading
(07:51):
research center. And so there ii cord, I did a lot of things.
One big project was working withfamilies and literacy and trying
to I blogged about literacypractices with my children, you
know, bird watching, readingabout birds, all kinds of
things. I also met a lot ofreally smart people around the
state who had their doctoratedegrees. And I was like, I don't
know if I could do that. Andthey're like, I couldn't put I
(08:13):
can't pile up any more studentdebt. And they they were all
were like, well, you should lookinto fellowships, and you should
look into this. So then twoyears later, we moved here. I
had three kids, a tiny newborn,and I was I worked for them,
doing their social media for awhile. And I was like, What am I
going to do with my life? Idon't know any. I have no
teaching network here inMichigan. And so I applied to
(08:35):
some programs, and I got intoMichigan State, and thankfully,
it was the best place for me tobe, because I taught one early
literacy class, and then I was afield instructor, so I got to go
in schools and support studentteachers. And, you know, watched
one of them put worms in kidshands, and, you know, get my
(08:56):
hands dirty, which felt good tobe back in schools. I spent five
years at Michigan State. I gotto teach us a lot of different
courses in literacy, and then Irealized, oh no, no, I really
like teaching early math, so Iwent to that side. And so I'm,
I'm kind of dabble in a lot ofsubject areas as a as a
elementary, early childhoodteacher does anyway, and so I'm
(09:18):
honored to be here now. Thisposition came available with the
new banding. There's a pre Kthrough third grade band. And so
this job came available, and myadvisor was like, this is like,
made for you. And so I I feel sohonored to be here, because one
of the things in the jobdescription was talking about
using developmentallyappropriate practices,
(09:40):
especially with a focus on pre Kthrough third grade across
content areas. And so I was ableto hone in on teaching pre
service teachers those skills atMichigan State. And then here we
are. And so with that, they wereasked me what I wanted to teach.
And luckily enough, I have togive a shout out to Joe Ellen.
Seder, Dr Lou Seder create hadjust created this learning the
(10:02):
content areas through play. Ibelieve she had taught it online
once, but nobody had taught itface to face first. And so I
they had me list classes. Thiswas one that appealed to me. And
so I have been lucky enough, andbecause of, like, shuffling
around, I've actually been theone to teach it, the only person
to teach it. This is my thirdtime on campus. She has taught
(10:25):
the online version, and so Ihave built upon her work. And I
I think of her often. I like toshare when I have pictures of my
students work with her, becauseit brings me joy, and I hope it
brings her joy as well. So So
Ashley O'Neil (10:42):
all of these diverse experiences give Tracy
insight into the students thatshe impacts at all levels, the
Early Childhood, Elementarystudents, her undergrad, pre
service teachers, both as thestudents they are now and as the
teachers that they're going tobe. Our conversation pivoted
here, and we're going to getinto the work that Tracy does
with students, and it's focusedheavily on play. But Julie and I
(11:05):
know that that word has a ton ofpersonal contextual meaning for
everyone, your own childhood,movies, commercials, toys, your
own kids, potentially, they allmix together in your brain to
create this definition of play.
So I asked Tracy to think abouthow she defines play to set the
tone for our conversation.
Tracy Donohue (11:25):
I so it's funny because I'm sitting that
training that I had to push thisback for is positive psychology,
and we were talking about flowtheory today, and so that's
where I think of play. For me, Itell my students, I play when I
drive, I play looking at exits.
I'm just fiddling around,tinkering in my mind. So play
can be tinkering. It can be I'mfully on flow mode and focused
(11:48):
in something. It can be as muchor as little at different times.
So it it's hard for me to defineexactly what it is, and it
doesn't always. It sometimes ishard. And I think sometimes we
think of play as just playingwith dolls, like you said, or
play is playing in dramaticplay, and I have to dress up and
(12:09):
I have to look silly to play.
But actually some of us are justsitting I'm going, how many more
exits do I have? Okay, if I goup one speed, you know, one mile
per hour, how I'm going to eat,and I'm just sitting there
problem solving in my mind thatis polite to me. So I'm not sure
if that's a textbook definition.
What
Ashley O'Neil (12:27):
we love about this definition is that it's not
tidy and textbook. And in thisinstance, that's really helpful.
You see, there's no mention ofspecific materials or age here
in this conversation, and thedefinition that Dr Donahue gave
us is removed from a specifictool or program or toy. In fact,
that whole playing with thespeed and location to make a
(12:48):
game out of the commute homethat is all in your head,
really. So what Tracy is talkingabout here is an approach to an
activity instead of a specificmagic activity itself. I
remember my new parent brainlooking for the perfect example
of play on Instagram, and I wasoften brought to these pretty
open ended toys or theseactivity ideas. And sometimes I
(13:10):
worked for my child, andsometimes not, because through
lots of trial and error with myown kid, I realized that you can
have the same materials and samesteps for an activity, but doing
that activity, in and of itself,does not guarantee that it's
play. For example, the days whenI'm singing and auditioning for
Broadway while I dust my housedoes something different in my
(13:30):
brain than when I'm aggressivelywiping the bookshelves before a
guest arrives. Both arecleaning, both use the same
tools, but they are not bothplay. So now let's talk a little
bit more about that textbookdefinition as a mindset or an
approach, Tracy's going to sharethe five characteristics of play
that she uses in her class, andshe'll share them with examples.
(13:50):
So let's list them on their own.
First we have joy, meaningfullearning, iteration, social
interaction and activeengagement. Back to Tracy,
Tracy Donohue (14:03):
I'm digging deeper in these, what I call
characteristics of play. And Ilook at them my students, I say,
Okay, pull out a literacyactivity. Find one online. And
let's look at where are thesecharacteristics of play? And if
they're not there, or they can'tcome from this, how could you
modify that task? Because weknow they're all going to go on
Google and find stuff I do allthe time and but how can I
(14:25):
tinker with this, play with thisto make it have more playful
opportunities so there's joy. SoI think there's a lot of number
of things that can bring us joythat might not look like what we
consider play as being a childbased thing meaningful learning.
Am I learning something fromthis? I mean, if we think about
mountain biking, we've talkedabout mountain biking before.
(14:45):
That is play. You're playing inthe woods. You're like, Okay, I
can't go down this rockformation today, but next time,
I might try this one rock andthen the next time, you know,
and then that brings me toiteration So, and I'm sure in
the maker space, you'll see alot of. Uh, iterative processes,
but let me try it this time, seewhat happens. Let me try it this
time and see what happens. Andthen social interaction. I mean,
(15:08):
we play with our friends, evenif we're just sitting on a couch
talking. And then activeengagement. Am I actively
engaged? And there's a wholecontinuum I just had in this
positive psychology trainingabout what that can look like
too. So yeah, play looksdifferent for everybody, and it
also makes me think of mystudents sometimes, especially
at the beginning of thesemester, I'll take in a bunch
(15:30):
of tubs. I think you've seen mewith my cafeteria card. I'll
take in tubs Magna tiles oranimals or just anything,
because I have access to allthese great things. And I'll
say, Okay, we're going to haveunstructured play. I'm going to
turn music on, and y'all justplay. And it depends on the
students. Last semester, I hadpeople that go yes, and they
just dive right in. Thissemester, I have a bigger class,
(15:53):
and maybe that leads them to bemore reticent, but I have some
that just look at me and they'relike, can she just get on with
it. Like we're adults here, youknow, and I can see that in
them. So then we talk aboutthat. And does it feel weird to
sit here and play? Okay, let meget the tiles out and let me
just pretend to play. And someof them still don't kind of get
past that even, but it's nice towatch them kind of grow and
(16:14):
realize, like, oh, I should beplaying in my life too. And that
was going to be sort of myfollow up question is, when you
set up scenarios in your classfor the students, do you look
for your scenarios that youoffer them to have those five
components, the joy and theiteration and the engagement?
And I'm missing two of them, butthose five and when they offer
(16:38):
opportunities to young children,do you expect them to
incorporate all five, or some ofthe five or or it sounds like
open play without necessarilycalling out those five areas is
fine as well. So I have a heart.
So this is a there's like abalance to it, because once you
start saying, I need you toincorporate all five of that. My
(17:01):
Type A students want to go,check, check, check, and what
sounds like meaningful learningmight not quite be meaningful
learning. So I I do ask them toreflect on them for sure. And
I'm evolving with thisframework. It's I've adapted
some pieces here and there withthat, but what I do is, in their
assignments, they have one theirfirst assignment, the only one
(17:23):
that we've turned in so far isthis game transfiguration that
Joe Ellen designed, and it issuch a beautiful opportunity.
They take a game, it could bebeer pong, it could be monopoly,
and they adapt it to bedevelopmentally appropriate and
kid friendly for a child thatthey're working with. So I
should show I have so manybeautiful photos, and I can show
(17:46):
you another time, but show andtell is easier when I can just
show you what I have. Theycreated. One of my students did
this. She's working with a thirdgrader. This Kingdom Hearts
monopoly. She painted thisboard. So even that was play in
itself. And then this is moresimple, but she created a
(18:08):
multiplication golf game. Andthis one I love, if you've
played, what do you mean shecreated, she took photos and
different things. But thequestion was, when you get to be
the line later for the day. Butthen she played that with kids
and realized they don't even getthat like this, the sarcasm and
stuff. So so then we reflect onthat, getting to know you.
(18:28):
Jinga, she painted and and sothey do this, and then they
implement it, and then theyreflect on that. And that is
kind of before we really getinto a lot of content. So
they're real. I'm really justlooking to see, can they look at
what is and and I don't likeputting developmental things in
a box, so we look at like,generally, would this work for a
(18:49):
three year old? But all threeyear olds are different,
especially some kids in the cdllare gonna I watched one little
boy count, 14, and then shegoes, what would one more? He
goes, 15. I wouldn't expect Idon't know if he's four yet, to
be able to do that, but I youknow, they are pretty
sophisticated counters. And sothen they do four major, or I
(19:10):
don't want to say major, fourlearning activities. And I think
from being in the maker space,y'all have inspired me to not
quite make them so discreet interms of literacy, math,
science, social studies. Sowhile they do these four, they
have to design a learningactivity. And so my first
semester, I did that, theycreated this. They implemented
(19:32):
it. They reflected a typicalteacher assignment. I have
changed this, modified it alittle bit because I want them
to develop fun learningopportunities, but I also want
them to see that that can happenin any moment, like we were
saying in thick conversations,is what we call it, or open
conversations, or extendedhowever you want to do it. So we
(19:55):
do a lot of practice of I'vebeen doing fish. Goals. And so
they'll be playing Magna tiles.
And I'll say, okay, for myoutsiders, what skill Do you
want me to focus on in here? Andthen I go in and say, Okay, we
were doing rhyming. Okay, I seean orange tile. Can you tell me
something that rhymes withorange? And they always look at
me like it doesn't have to be areal word. And we're just
(20:17):
implementing whatever literacyskill they choose. And we talk
about how that can be that isjust as meaningful as this
activity that I planned. And alot of times, those ones that I
plan fail or not or or the kidgoes, No, I want to do it this
way. And so you're off. So Idon't I want them to learn some
flexibility and fluidity. And sothey do one of those for each
(20:38):
and then when you when theyreflect, they have to think of
those characteristics of play.
And then also, especially inmath, I have attributes of high
quality math tasks, and theseare things I want to be looking
for, because my early childhoodpeople, they love some
patterning, they love it, theylove some colors. They love some
shapes. They don't love doingnumber activities. So I am
(21:03):
making them do numberactivities, because what I see
as I look at just people I'veworked with in general is number
sense. Opportunities aremissing. Kids are going to get
patterning, they're going to getall those things. But the number
is huge. So I just kind of likewe do shapes, we do those
things, but I say no patterns,and anyway, so high quality
(21:24):
tasks, and I ask them toreflect, like how or think about
that when they're planning. Andthen science, I have them think
about the characteristics ofplay, but our big mantra is
notice and wonder. And then youinspire me to think about story
throughout. And so when we werehere last semester, is create a
story for what you built. Createa story for this. So we've
(21:48):
really incorporating literacythroughout. And then my take on
social studies, because theirtake is social studies as
government, social studies ascommunities. So we talk about, I
think of social studies aslistening to other people and
learning from them. So come inyour community and just other
people's stories. So
Ashley O'Neil (22:10):
we have a lot of thick and actionable suggestions
and ideas from Dr Donahue in theform of these kind of stories
and examples from her class,which is great. She discusses
thinking about play in differentcontent areas across different
contexts and the considerationsthat go into all of these
things. Now she's going to talkabout another key consideration.
Tracy Donohue (22:30):
Our content is heavily focused on equitable and
inclusive play as well. So Ishould say that all of our work
in the semester is grounded inis this accessible. I'm I'm
working with Mason. I know Masoncan do this activity, but I want
to think about, if I'm in aclassroom with a bunch of three
year olds, would all three yearolds be able to do this, and
what modifications might I haveto make? And we did an activity.
(22:52):
We do an activity, I think, thevery first day, where they we
build with spaghetti, OldSpaghetti and old marshmallows.
But, you know, it occurred tome, or maybe from my reading, I
don't know that actuallychildren with food insecurities
that can be harmful to somechildren. So it's not necessary.
Like I said, my dad would laughat me and be like, Okay, you
can't play with food. No. It'snot that. It's knowing the
(23:14):
people I'm working with andknowing, okay, if this is
harmful for this one kid, we'regoing to use toothpicks and Play
Doh this time, you know, andstuff like that. And that's fine
for all kids then, right? Liketo be speaking in marshmallows,
and if it's harmful for one kid,it's not worth it. I won't do
it, right? I just want to say Iappreciate how much you're
modeling for your students whatyou want them to do when they
(23:38):
work with children, because Ithink that doesn't always happen
when we're training newteachers, and so not as a
criticism of anyone else Or elsethis program. But I just, I just
think that's really nice whenyou say and then we do fish
bowls, and we talk about right,and then ask them to reflect on
I think that this so importantfor them to see. I think often
(23:59):
in education has been myexperience that we don't make
our thought processes explicitto people that are learning to
teach and in doing so, we makesome of it look easier or
simpler than it is because we'velearned how to do it already,
and probably that's true of anyskill, right? Like lots of
(24:19):
people, make mountain bikinglooks super easy, and I right,
so it's probably true of anyskill, but I just think that's
really nice that all themodeling that and the explicit
decision making that you'redoing with them. Thank you. And
I'm lucky I get to teachsomething fun too. So I, my
class is fun, but also the topicis fun, and I I I try to in this
(24:42):
another class I teach is it'ssuch a loaded title. It's called
Best Practices of earlychildhood settings. I try to
model as much as I can in a bearclassroom up there what it's
like to experience so we havemorning meeting every time we
have class, and it might seemsilly after a while, we have
read. Loud every time, because Itell them, If I drop that, then
(25:03):
that. What does that say to you?
Ashley O'Neil (25:05):
So you mentioned you just you touched on earlier
about making play inclusive andaccessible. So can you talk a
little bit about whatconversations you have with
students I'm particularlythinking of like a neurodiverse
population. So that's my likeangle for this, but maybe, maybe
that's not what you're talkingabout. But how do you have
conversations with them abouthonoring the type of play that
(25:27):
they might do, so that you'vegot your bubble generally, and
then you've got your otherbubble. How do you have
conversations about the type ofplay that they do and honoring
that and working I hear a lot ofyou saying, like developing
flexibility with for the adultstudents, right? Like for your
future teachers, developing thatflexibility. So how do you have
that conversation with themabout following students
(25:48):
children's
Unknown (25:48):
needs? So
Tracy Donohue (25:49):
we do have some specific conversations to maybe
underrepresented populations,especially, I teach in a very
not diverse racially populationhere, but we talk about
inclusivity and accessibilityfor all, but I don't know who
they're going to interact with.
So it's more of big ideas thatI'm thinking of. And the point I
(26:11):
try to stress is you have toknow who you're working with
first. You wouldn't just likethe food insecurity thing, and
it's getting to know yourstudents and what their needs
are, getting to know thechildren and their families,
learning about the children,learning what works at home. So
I would we haven't had specificconversations to nerd,
(26:34):
neurodivergent populations.
However, I hope that by mestressing the importance of
understanding their needs andwhat they need, that they are
able to translate that to reallyanybody
Ashley O'Neil (26:48):
Sure. One of the next questions that we asked
Tracy was about the differencesshe noticed in pre service
teachers and their mindset goinginto this class based on the
grade levels that they thoughtthey were going to teach. So for
example, did students whoanticipated teaching preschool,
kindergarten and first gradeapproach things a little bit
differently than students whoplanned on teaching an older
(27:10):
grade level?
Tracy Donohue (27:12):
We have this big conversation over and over of it
is not a dichotomy learn versusplay, that actually learning is
play. And so if you think aboutMinecraft, older kids like
Minecraft, it's building, it'sgot playful opportunities. And
so helping them kind of open upwhat we said about like that
definition of play, I think isimportant. I personally am on a
(27:36):
mission for people to also seeearly childhood as through third
grade. Because a lot of times wehear early childhood, oh, that's
play, and we think of birththrough five, and the definition
is up to eight years old, whichis the through third grade, in
my opinion. And then I wouldargue adults like to play,
because I see it in my class allthe time. I think high school. I
(27:59):
think my middle schoolers thatthey're middle school, my own
children, play more than theydid in fifth grade. Just, you
know, I think you have to besilly to appeal to them. I'm
guessing and they, I think allof us need an element of shake
off the seriousness and havesome joy and some silliness,
Ashley O'Neil (28:16):
some joy and some silliness. That's the ask this
week. Remember those fivetenets, joy, meaningful
learning, iteration, socialinteraction and active
engagement. Let's focus on two.
How are you going to approach orinfuse a task with joy and
active engagement? This week, itcould be your Monday morning
commute, your phonics lesson, orthat last 30 minutes before the
(28:37):
end of the day with yourstudents. We'll be back with the
rest of our interview with Tracyin two weeks, but we'd love to
hear what you've been up to.
Always feel free to email us. Atcease@cmesh.edu C, E, S, E, at
C, M, I, C, h.edu, in two weeks.
Stay tuned to hear more examplesand some explicit design choices
(28:58):
that set Tracy's students up formeaningful and iterative
interactions. This has beenteach wonder you
So this semester, we're focusing on agency. We're
interested in taking a deeperlook at the foundational beliefs
and ideas that shape ourclassrooms. One way that we're
doing this offline is through apartnership with Dr Tracy
Donahue. You'll hear more fromher in a minute as we re share a
conversation that we had withher last fall. Now we've never
repeated a podcast episodebefore, but this week felt like
(00:23):
the right time, as our grantwork with Tracy has us
researching what education islike outside of Michigan,
specifically, what does playlook like? We'll be traveling
with Tracy next week to Icelandto explore several outdoor play
preschools, reju Amelia schools,for schools, fully inclusive
schools, and more. To say thatwe're excited is an
(00:44):
understatement. We'll take youalong on our adventure sharing
updates on social media andlonger reflections and upcoming
episodes. So while we'repacking, take a minute to
introduce yourself, to call ourcolleague, Tracy, and learn more
about why we think play isfoundational to agency and
belongs in the classroom.
Tracy Donohue (01:04):
We have this big conversation over and over of it
is not a dichotomy learn versusplay, that actually learning is
play. Okay,
Introduction (01:14):
now we're recording. So welcome to teach
wonder. Welcome to teach wonder,a podcast hosted by Ashley
O'Neill and Julie Cunningham.
Ashley O'Neil (01:36):
My freshman year of college, I had two roommates.
Roommate one had goals of goingpre med. So she was taking zero
writing courses her firstsemester, but had Calc, bio and
chemistry all at the same time.
Roommate, two and I both wantedto be teachers, so we had a
broader array of classes,including history and
communications and Spanish, andwe were both also in this
introductory teacher course. Thebulk of our homework actually
(01:58):
came from that teacher course.
We'd been pretty familiar withschool and had a handle on our
other classes we'd never taughtbefore, and this teacher class
had us in first grade classroomsthe second week, doing 30 minute
lessons on social studies. Soevery week, we were preparing
new lessons for them. I'll neverforget the dichotomy of homework
(02:19):
in our tiny dorm room, soroommate one header stacks of
calc notes and flashcards forbio and a bulletin board of
equations. Roommate two and Iwere using markers on the back
of cereal boxes to make housesfor lesson neighborhoods. You'd
often walk into our room and seeroommate two and I practicing
our lessons with each otherwhile roommate one borrowed our
pencils to color codeflashcards, but you would also
(02:41):
often see roommate two and I onthe couch using those color
coded flashcards to quizroommate one as she colored
streetlamps and stop signs to gowith our cereal box houses. Now,
College definitely became morerigorous for me in that
traditional sense. I'm nostranger to flashcards and late
night study sessions myself androommate one did take an art
class that resulted in hercreating a wire squirrel that
(03:04):
was so intense it affected ourTV signal. But that first
semester of freshman year, thatscene of studying for bio while
lesson planning for first gradeof my roommate coloring while
doing flashcard review, it isone of my strongest memories of
that year, and it ratherperfectly sets the stage for our
conversation. This week, we'reabout to jump into this
interview and spoiler it's aboutlearning and play. This
(03:27):
conversation talks about thetenets of play, why it's vital
for all people, regardless ofour age or our grade. We talk
about how students at CMU arelearning to incorporate play as
teacher educators, and we hearso many thoughtful and helpful
examples of play in theclassroom. But before we do
that, we're starting thisinterview by having our guest
share her background, and we'redoing that because it
(03:49):
illustrates a point that mattersin this conversation. Our
background and history create alens for us and new experiences
and opportunities can sharpen,adjust and filter that lens as
you listen to the experiencesand opportunities that build our
guest professional career, thinkabout your own and how it may
shape the way you are currentlyviewing your classroom and this
(04:10):
interview, here's Julie.
Tracy Donohue (04:13):
So Tracy, if you would please introduce yourself
and tell us a little bit aboutyour background as a faculty
member here. Okay, so my name isTracy Donahue, and I this is my
second year as an assistantprofessor here at Central
Michigan University, and I thinkit would behoove myself to get
tell you like pre Central, ifthat's okay. So I started I had
(04:36):
as a third grade teacher inRaleigh, North Carolina. I've
only ever taught in title onemagnet schools. So I started at
a visual and performing artsschool, teaching third grade,
and we got to teach electives.
So I taught the basic corecurriculum, and then four days a
week, our children actually k5but my electives were three
five. They would switch classes.
(04:58):
They would sign up for electivesand change and. So I taught a
sewing elective, I taught ahistory elective, I taught a
shaping up elective, all kindsof different things. It was
super fun, because you also gotto know kids around the school,
outside of your classroom. Andso in that process, with a good
friend of mine, who we grew upin, teaching together, we got
(05:18):
our masters in readingeducation. I thought I wanted to
be a small group literacyteacher, and we got our masters
at NC State together. And duringthat time, because funding
changes every year, with TitleOne, I became a part time math
coach and part time literacyintervention teacher. So I was
going from teaching small groupkindergarten literacy to fifth
(05:41):
grade classroom math coaching.
And every year it kind ofshifted, and I got to play
within my work in terms of coteaching, everyone is on a
continuum of where they'll beaccepting of that. I worked at
Powell, at that one school forabout 10 years. Ironically,
we're talking about play today.
I've been looking back into myold stomping grounds to share
(06:03):
with a presentation with astudent group here on campus,
and now they are not a visualand performing arts school. They
are building ingenuity throughPlay School, and they're the
only elementary school in thecountry, I think, with that
theme. So I reached out to them,because the assistant principal
is a good a former friend ofmine, and so they have a play
Integration Specialist with herPhD that works on staff. So I
(06:26):
was like, put I just wanted toreconnect with them, so I'm
hoping to talk with her. But Istarted there and worked in some
capacity in instructionalcoaching after my years in third
grade, and realized I reallylike working with adult
learners. And then I moved to adifferent magnet school within
Raleigh to for one year, andthen we moved out of state, but
(06:48):
it was connected with NC State,and it was an engineering magnet
school, and they had allocated,it was a low I've only worked at
low performing schools, but itthey allocated a quarter of
their Race to the Top funds tothe school and clean slate
started all kinds of new things.
I was the interventioncoordinator for that school, so
I worked with the teachers k5and then I was also a literacy
(07:08):
coach with that so during thattime, I also had the opportunity
to teach at a community collegedevelopmental reading. I also
thought I like to dabble. So Iwas like, let me try this again,
working with adult learners,doing a lot of similar things we
do in third grade readingclassrooms with adults. I would
make these adults who some wereolder than me, act out work new
(07:28):
vocabulary words, and I learnedit feels silly, but it's an
element of play in that as well.
We moved for family reasons, toIowa for a couple of years, and
I taught a community collegeclass on developmental reading
there. And then I startedlooking and kind of wanting to
spread my wings a little bit.
And I got a job as a literacyconsultant for the Iowa reading
(07:51):
research center. And so there ii cord, I did a lot of things.
One big project was working withfamilies and literacy and trying
to I blogged about literacypractices with my children, you
know, bird watching, readingabout birds, all kinds of
things. I also met a lot ofreally smart people around the
state who had their doctoratedegrees. And I was like, I don't
know if I could do that. Andthey're like, I couldn't put I
(08:13):
can't pile up any more studentdebt. And they they were all
were like, well, you should lookinto fellowships, and you should
look into this. So then twoyears later, we moved here. I
had three kids, a tiny newborn,and I was I worked for them,
doing their social media for awhile. And I was like, What am I
going to do with my life? Idon't know any. I have no
teaching network here inMichigan. And so I applied to
(08:35):
some programs, and I got intoMichigan State, and thankfully,
it was the best place for me tobe, because I taught one early
literacy class, and then I was afield instructor, so I got to go
in schools and support studentteachers. And, you know, watched
one of them put worms in kidshands, and, you know, get my
(08:56):
hands dirty, which felt good tobe back in schools. I spent five
years at Michigan State. I gotto teach us a lot of different
courses in literacy, and then Irealized, oh no, no, I really
like teaching early math, so Iwent to that side. And so I'm,
I'm kind of dabble in a lot ofsubject areas as a as a
elementary, early childhoodteacher does anyway, and so I'm
(09:18):
honored to be here now. Thisposition came available with the
new banding. There's a pre Kthrough third grade band. And so
this job came available, and myadvisor was like, this is like,
made for you. And so I I feel sohonored to be here, because one
of the things in the jobdescription was talking about
using developmentallyappropriate practices,
(09:40):
especially with a focus on pre Kthrough third grade across
content areas. And so I was ableto hone in on teaching pre
service teachers those skills atMichigan State. And then here we
are. And so with that, they wereasked me what I wanted to teach.
And luckily enough, I have togive a shout out to Joe Ellen.
Seder, Dr Lou Seder create hadjust created this learning the
(10:02):
content areas through play. Ibelieve she had taught it online
once, but nobody had taught itface to face first. And so I
they had me list classes. Thiswas one that appealed to me. And
so I have been lucky enough, andbecause of, like, shuffling
around, I've actually been theone to teach it, the only person
to teach it. This is my thirdtime on campus. She has taught
(10:25):
the online version, and so Ihave built upon her work. And I
I think of her often. I like toshare when I have pictures of my
students work with her, becauseit brings me joy, and I hope it
brings her joy as well. So So
Ashley O'Neil (10:42):
all of these diverse experiences give Tracy
insight into the students thatshe impacts at all levels, the
Early Childhood, Elementarystudents, her undergrad, pre
service teachers, both as thestudents they are now and as the
teachers that they're going tobe. Our conversation pivoted
here, and we're going to getinto the work that Tracy does
with students, and it's focusedheavily on play. But Julie and I
(11:05):
know that that word has a ton ofpersonal contextual meaning for
everyone, your own childhood,movies, commercials, toys, your
own kids, potentially, they allmix together in your brain to
create this definition of play.
So I asked Tracy to think abouthow she defines play to set the
tone for our conversation.
Tracy Donohue (11:25):
I so it's funny because I'm sitting that
training that I had to push thisback for is positive psychology,
and we were talking about flowtheory today, and so that's
where I think of play. For me, Itell my students, I play when I
drive, I play looking at exits.
I'm just fiddling around,tinkering in my mind. So play
can be tinkering. It can be I'mfully on flow mode and focused
(11:48):
in something. It can be as muchor as little at different times.
So it it's hard for me to defineexactly what it is, and it
doesn't always. It sometimes ishard. And I think sometimes we
think of play as just playingwith dolls, like you said, or
play is playing in dramaticplay, and I have to dress up and
(12:09):
I have to look silly to play.
But actually some of us are justsitting I'm going, how many more
exits do I have? Okay, if I goup one speed, you know, one mile
per hour, how I'm going to eat,and I'm just sitting there
problem solving in my mind thatis polite to me. So I'm not sure
if that's a textbook definition.
What
Ashley O'Neil (12:27):
we love about this definition is that it's not
tidy and textbook. And in thisinstance, that's really helpful.
You see, there's no mention ofspecific materials or age here
in this conversation, and thedefinition that Dr Donahue gave
us is removed from a specifictool or program or toy. In fact,
that whole playing with thespeed and location to make a
(12:48):
game out of the commute homethat is all in your head,
really. So what Tracy is talkingabout here is an approach to an
activity instead of a specificmagic activity itself. I
remember my new parent brainlooking for the perfect example
of play on Instagram, and I wasoften brought to these pretty
open ended toys or theseactivity ideas. And sometimes I
(13:10):
worked for my child, andsometimes not, because through
lots of trial and error with myown kid, I realized that you can
have the same materials and samesteps for an activity, but doing
that activity, in and of itself,does not guarantee that it's
play. For example, the days whenI'm singing and auditioning for
Broadway while I dust my housedoes something different in my
(13:30):
brain than when I'm aggressivelywiping the bookshelves before a
guest arrives. Both arecleaning, both use the same
tools, but they are not bothplay. So now let's talk a little
bit more about that textbookdefinition as a mindset or an
approach, Tracy's going to sharethe five characteristics of play
that she uses in her class, andshe'll share them with examples.
(13:50):
So let's list them on their own.
First we have joy, meaningfullearning, iteration, social
interaction and activeengagement. Back to Tracy,
Tracy Donohue (14:03):
I'm digging deeper in these, what I call
characteristics of play. And Ilook at them my students, I say,
Okay, pull out a literacyactivity. Find one online. And
let's look at where are thesecharacteristics of play? And if
they're not there, or they can'tcome from this, how could you
modify that task? Because weknow they're all going to go on
Google and find stuff I do allthe time and but how can I
(14:25):
tinker with this, play with thisto make it have more playful
opportunities so there's joy. SoI think there's a lot of number
of things that can bring us joythat might not look like what we
consider play as being a childbased thing meaningful learning.
Am I learning something fromthis? I mean, if we think about
mountain biking, we've talkedabout mountain biking before.
(14:45):
That is play. You're playing inthe woods. You're like, Okay, I
can't go down this rockformation today, but next time,
I might try this one rock andthen the next time, you know,
and then that brings me toiteration So, and I'm sure in
the maker space, you'll see alot of. Uh, iterative processes,
but let me try it this time, seewhat happens. Let me try it this
time and see what happens. Andthen social interaction. I mean,
(15:08):
we play with our friends, evenif we're just sitting on a couch
talking. And then activeengagement. Am I actively
engaged? And there's a wholecontinuum I just had in this
positive psychology trainingabout what that can look like
too. So yeah, play looksdifferent for everybody, and it
also makes me think of mystudents sometimes, especially
at the beginning of thesemester, I'll take in a bunch
(15:30):
of tubs. I think you've seen mewith my cafeteria card. I'll
take in tubs Magna tiles oranimals or just anything,
because I have access to allthese great things. And I'll
say, Okay, we're going to haveunstructured play. I'm going to
turn music on, and y'all justplay. And it depends on the
students. Last semester, I hadpeople that go yes, and they
just dive right in. Thissemester, I have a bigger class,
(15:53):
and maybe that leads them to bemore reticent, but I have some
that just look at me and they'relike, can she just get on with
it. Like we're adults here, youknow, and I can see that in
them. So then we talk aboutthat. And does it feel weird to
sit here and play? Okay, let meget the tiles out and let me
just pretend to play. And someof them still don't kind of get
past that even, but it's nice towatch them kind of grow and
(16:14):
realize, like, oh, I should beplaying in my life too. And that
was going to be sort of myfollow up question is, when you
set up scenarios in your classfor the students, do you look
for your scenarios that youoffer them to have those five
components, the joy and theiteration and the engagement?
And I'm missing two of them, butthose five and when they offer
(16:38):
opportunities to young children,do you expect them to
incorporate all five, or some ofthe five or or it sounds like
open play without necessarilycalling out those five areas is
fine as well. So I have a heart.
So this is a there's like abalance to it, because once you
start saying, I need you toincorporate all five of that. My
(17:01):
Type A students want to go,check, check, check, and what
sounds like meaningful learningmight not quite be meaningful
learning. So I I do ask them toreflect on them for sure. And
I'm evolving with thisframework. It's I've adapted
some pieces here and there withthat, but what I do is, in their
assignments, they have one theirfirst assignment, the only one
(17:23):
that we've turned in so far isthis game transfiguration that
Joe Ellen designed, and it issuch a beautiful opportunity.
They take a game, it could bebeer pong, it could be monopoly,
and they adapt it to bedevelopmentally appropriate and
kid friendly for a child thatthey're working with. So I
should show I have so manybeautiful photos, and I can show
(17:46):
you another time, but show andtell is easier when I can just
show you what I have. Theycreated. One of my students did
this. She's working with a thirdgrader. This Kingdom Hearts
monopoly. She painted thisboard. So even that was play in
itself. And then this is moresimple, but she created a
(18:08):
multiplication golf game. Andthis one I love, if you've
played, what do you mean shecreated, she took photos and
different things. But thequestion was, when you get to be
the line later for the day. Butthen she played that with kids
and realized they don't even getthat like this, the sarcasm and
stuff. So so then we reflect onthat, getting to know you.
(18:28):
Jinga, she painted and and sothey do this, and then they
implement it, and then theyreflect on that. And that is
kind of before we really getinto a lot of content. So
they're real. I'm really justlooking to see, can they look at
what is and and I don't likeputting developmental things in
a box, so we look at like,generally, would this work for a
(18:49):
three year old? But all threeyear olds are different,
especially some kids in the cdllare gonna I watched one little
boy count, 14, and then shegoes, what would one more? He
goes, 15. I wouldn't expect Idon't know if he's four yet, to
be able to do that, but I youknow, they are pretty
sophisticated counters. And sothen they do four major, or I
(19:10):
don't want to say major, fourlearning activities. And I think
from being in the maker space,y'all have inspired me to not
quite make them so discreet interms of literacy, math,
science, social studies. Sowhile they do these four, they
have to design a learningactivity. And so my first
semester, I did that, theycreated this. They implemented
(19:32):
it. They reflected a typicalteacher assignment. I have
changed this, modified it alittle bit because I want them
to develop fun learningopportunities, but I also want
them to see that that can happenin any moment, like we were
saying in thick conversations,is what we call it, or open
conversations, or extendedhowever you want to do it. So we
(19:55):
do a lot of practice of I'vebeen doing fish. Goals. And so
they'll be playing Magna tiles.
And I'll say, okay, for myoutsiders, what skill Do you
want me to focus on in here? Andthen I go in and say, Okay, we
were doing rhyming. Okay, I seean orange tile. Can you tell me
something that rhymes withorange? And they always look at
me like it doesn't have to be areal word. And we're just
(20:17):
implementing whatever literacyskill they choose. And we talk
about how that can be that isjust as meaningful as this
activity that I planned. And alot of times, those ones that I
plan fail or not or or the kidgoes, No, I want to do it this
way. And so you're off. So Idon't I want them to learn some
flexibility and fluidity. And sothey do one of those for each
(20:38):
and then when you when theyreflect, they have to think of
those characteristics of play.
And then also, especially inmath, I have attributes of high
quality math tasks, and theseare things I want to be looking
for, because my early childhoodpeople, they love some
patterning, they love it, theylove some colors. They love some
shapes. They don't love doingnumber activities. So I am
(21:03):
making them do numberactivities, because what I see
as I look at just people I'veworked with in general is number
sense. Opportunities aremissing. Kids are going to get
patterning, they're going to getall those things. But the number
is huge. So I just kind of likewe do shapes, we do those
things, but I say no patterns,and anyway, so high quality
(21:24):
tasks, and I ask them toreflect, like how or think about
that when they're planning. Andthen science, I have them think
about the characteristics ofplay, but our big mantra is
notice and wonder. And then youinspire me to think about story
throughout. And so when we werehere last semester, is create a
story for what you built. Createa story for this. So we've
(21:48):
really incorporating literacythroughout. And then my take on
social studies, because theirtake is social studies as
government, social studies ascommunities. So we talk about, I
think of social studies aslistening to other people and
learning from them. So come inyour community and just other
people's stories. So
Ashley O'Neil (22:10):
we have a lot of thick and actionable suggestions
and ideas from Dr Donahue in theform of these kind of stories
and examples from her class,which is great. She discusses
thinking about play in differentcontent areas across different
contexts and the considerationsthat go into all of these
things. Now she's going to talkabout another key consideration.
Tracy Donohue (22:30):
Our content is heavily focused on equitable and
inclusive play as well. So Ishould say that all of our work
in the semester is grounded inis this accessible. I'm I'm
working with Mason. I know Masoncan do this activity, but I want
to think about, if I'm in aclassroom with a bunch of three
year olds, would all three yearolds be able to do this, and
what modifications might I haveto make? And we did an activity.
(22:52):
We do an activity, I think, thevery first day, where they we
build with spaghetti, OldSpaghetti and old marshmallows.
But, you know, it occurred tome, or maybe from my reading, I
don't know that actuallychildren with food insecurities
that can be harmful to somechildren. So it's not necessary.
Like I said, my dad would laughat me and be like, Okay, you
can't play with food. No. It'snot that. It's knowing the
(23:14):
people I'm working with andknowing, okay, if this is
harmful for this one kid, we'regoing to use toothpicks and Play
Doh this time, you know, andstuff like that. And that's fine
for all kids then, right? Liketo be speaking in marshmallows,
and if it's harmful for one kid,it's not worth it. I won't do
it, right? I just want to say Iappreciate how much you're
modeling for your students whatyou want them to do when they
(23:38):
work with children, because Ithink that doesn't always happen
when we're training newteachers, and so not as a
criticism of anyone else Or elsethis program. But I just, I just
think that's really nice whenyou say and then we do fish
bowls, and we talk about right,and then ask them to reflect on
I think that this so importantfor them to see. I think often
(23:59):
in education has been myexperience that we don't make
our thought processes explicitto people that are learning to
teach and in doing so, we makesome of it look easier or
simpler than it is because we'velearned how to do it already,
and probably that's true of anyskill, right? Like lots of
(24:19):
people, make mountain bikinglooks super easy, and I right,
so it's probably true of anyskill, but I just think that's
really nice that all themodeling that and the explicit
decision making that you'redoing with them. Thank you. And
I'm lucky I get to teachsomething fun too. So I, my
class is fun, but also the topicis fun, and I I I try to in this
(24:42):
another class I teach is it'ssuch a loaded title. It's called
Best Practices of earlychildhood settings. I try to
model as much as I can in a bearclassroom up there what it's
like to experience so we havemorning meeting every time we
have class, and it might seemsilly after a while, we have
read. Loud every time, because Itell them, If I drop that, then
(25:03):
that. What does that say to you?
Ashley O'Neil (25:05):
So you mentioned you just you touched on earlier
about making play inclusive andaccessible. So can you talk a
little bit about whatconversations you have with
students I'm particularlythinking of like a neurodiverse
population. So that's my likeangle for this, but maybe, maybe
that's not what you're talkingabout. But how do you have
conversations with them abouthonoring the type of play that
(25:27):
they might do, so that you'vegot your bubble generally, and
then you've got your otherbubble. How do you have
conversations about the type ofplay that they do and honoring
that and working I hear a lot ofyou saying, like developing
flexibility with for the adultstudents, right? Like for your
future teachers, developing thatflexibility. So how do you have
that conversation with themabout following students
(25:48):
children's
Unknown (25:48):
needs? So
Tracy Donohue (25:49):
we do have some specific conversations to maybe
underrepresented populations,especially, I teach in a very
not diverse racially populationhere, but we talk about
inclusivity and accessibilityfor all, but I don't know who
they're going to interact with.
So it's more of big ideas thatI'm thinking of. And the point I
(26:11):
try to stress is you have toknow who you're working with
first. You wouldn't just likethe food insecurity thing, and
it's getting to know yourstudents and what their needs
are, getting to know thechildren and their families,
learning about the children,learning what works at home. So
I would we haven't had specificconversations to nerd,
(26:34):
neurodivergent populations.
However, I hope that by mestressing the importance of
understanding their needs andwhat they need, that they are
able to translate that to reallyanybody
Ashley O'Neil (26:48):
Sure. One of the next questions that we asked
Tracy was about the differencesshe noticed in pre service
teachers and their mindset goinginto this class based on the
grade levels that they thoughtthey were going to teach. So for
example, did students whoanticipated teaching preschool,
kindergarten and first gradeapproach things a little bit
differently than students whoplanned on teaching an older
(27:10):
grade level?
Tracy Donohue (27:12):
We have this big conversation over and over of it
is not a dichotomy learn versusplay, that actually learning is
play. And so if you think aboutMinecraft, older kids like
Minecraft, it's building, it'sgot playful opportunities. And
so helping them kind of open upwhat we said about like that
definition of play, I think isimportant. I personally am on a
(27:36):
mission for people to also seeearly childhood as through third
grade. Because a lot of times wehear early childhood, oh, that's
play, and we think of birththrough five, and the definition
is up to eight years old, whichis the through third grade, in
my opinion. And then I wouldargue adults like to play,
because I see it in my class allthe time. I think high school. I
(27:59):
think my middle schoolers thatthey're middle school, my own
children, play more than theydid in fifth grade. Just, you
know, I think you have to besilly to appeal to them. I'm
guessing and they, I think allof us need an element of shake
off the seriousness and havesome joy and some silliness,
Ashley O'Neil (28:16):
some joy and some silliness. That's the ask this
week. Remember those fivetenets, joy, meaningful
learning, iteration, socialinteraction and active
engagement. Let's focus on two.
How are you going to approach orinfuse a task with joy and
active engagement? This week, itcould be your Monday morning
commute, your phonics lesson, orthat last 30 minutes before the
(28:37):
end of the day with yourstudents. We'll be back with the
rest of our interview with Tracyin two weeks, but we'd love to
hear what you've been up to.
Always feel free to email us. Atcease@cmesh.edu C, E, S, E, at
C, M, I, C, h.edu, in two weeks.
Stay tuned to hear more examplesand some explicit design choices
(28:58):
that set Tracy's students up formeaningful and iterative
interactions. This has beenteach wonder you
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