March 26, 2024 • 27 mins
In this episode of the Teaching Tax Flow podcast, hosted by Chris Picciurro and John Tripolsky, they dive into the nuances of parental tax strategies. With a focus on empowering parents to legally and ethically minimize the taxes they will pay over their lifetimes, episode 76 is a must-listen for parents eager to optimize their tax planning. The hosts meticulously break down complex tax strategies that capitalize on the benefits of parenthood, offering a wealth of knowledge for the layman and experienced tax professionals alike.
In this episode, Chris and John outline three pivotal tax strategies designed to benefit both parents and children. Starting with the benefits of contributing to a Roth IRA for your children, they delineate how such contributions can grow tax-free, providing a nest egg for future needs. The hosts move on to discussing 529 plans, emphasizing their tax advantages and flexibility for educational expenses. As they explore nuances like gift tax exclusions and the implications of gifting assets, the potential tax savings for family estates come into focus. Through these discussions, the podcast ensures listeners are equipped with the tools they need to undertake informed tax planning.
Key Takeaways:
- Contributing to a child's Roth IRA can secure future tax-free income and growth, provided the child has earned income.
- Investments in a 529 plan grow tax-deferred and can be used tax-free for a beneficiary's educational expenses, with added benefits like potential larger contributions.
- Parents and grandparents can gift up to $18,000 per year to a child without incurring gift taxes, which can also facilitate income shift and estate planning.
Notable Quotes:
- "Roth contributions could be very powerful." - Chris Picciurro
- "The [529] expansion of what we consider an educational cost could include technology." - Chris Picciurro
- "It's easier for laws to pass to tax people that have passed away than people that are living." - Chris Picciurro
- "Not too many people are running around with that amount that they're concerned about hitting that estate tax exemption." - Chris Picciurro
- "Unfortunately, just financial and tax education and literacy is just not taught as much as it should be." - Chris Picciurro
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Tripolsky (00:04):
Welcome to the Teaching Tax Flow podcast, where
the goal is to empower andeducate you to legally and
ethically minimize taxes paidover your lifetime.
Welcome back to the podcast,everybody. Today on episode 76,
we are gonna look at those topthree parental tax strategies.
(00:25):
So before we do that, as always,let's take a brief moment and
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John Tripolsky (01:19):
Welcome back to the podcast, everybody. Exactly
as I said here in that intro.But as always, we have a great
topic we are gonna look attoday, especially related to
those who are parents. So it'sabout time those kids start
paying you back a little bit,you know, as, they always make
you feed them and take care ofthem. And, frankly, you gotta
keep those little buggers alive,you know, from from birth till,
(01:42):
well, some of us, until you getmuch, much older.
But without further ado, let'sdive into this very, very
interesting topic to me becauseI have a toddler, of course. So,
Chris Pacquero, welcome back,man. How you doing?
Chris Piccurrio (01:56):
I am amazing. How are you doing, mister Johnny
t?
John Tripolsky (02:00):
Hey. I'm doing good, man. I got you know, my
little toddler's at daycareright now, probably, you know,
finger painting all overherself. So it's a it's a good
topic I think we're gonna touchon today.
Chris Piccurrio (02:10):
Well, John John, interestingly enough,
we've had many conversationsabout the day care situation and
how you absolutely love all thenotifications of everything that
your daughter does. And youcould love when your phone goes
off every time she sneezes andthe daycare is letting you know
that she ate 4 of her 6 appleslices and kindly threw the
(02:31):
other 2 away in a napkin.
John Tripolsky (02:33):
Hey. It's better than, you know, she ate 4 out of
6 of her boogers. So let'salthough I'm sure though you
know what? I this is awful toadmit this, you know, that.
Usually, those notifications areoff only because, again, we know
that our wives do not listen tothis show, or at least let's
hope they don't because I willbe in trouble after this one.
I always know my wife babysitsthat app, and she loves every
(02:55):
notification that goes off. Soif it's, you know, an urgent
thing, like, you know, she felloff a swing or, you know, she
ate a rock or something likethat, my wife will call me and
then
Chris Piccurrio (03:03):
I can say, oh, yeah. I see that. I'm right on
it. So kinda play into it. ButExactly.
We know we know that usuallythere's one parent that's a
that's a little more tuned in tothe to the micro activities of
the toddlers. That you
John Tripolsky (03:20):
know what? I think we mentioned this in our,
our event that we did last week.So it was the, you know, the q
and a with the CPA, which thankyou everybody that chimed in for
that, all of our premiummembers. Great, great, event
again as always. And, Chris, Ithink we refer to a lot of
things as situationallydependent.
Right? Correct. So instead ofsaying, oh, well, it depends.
(03:41):
Right? So, you know, now that Iget in these conversations, it's
like, well, you know,situationally dependent.
Let's talk about those little, II was gonna say something else.
But the little people that aredependent on us for their
well-being. So let's let's tiethis in. Obviously, this is a
tax related podcast. So let'stalk about, we'll call it tax
(04:02):
benefits, tax opportunities,etcetera in here.
But I know we got 3 of them.Them. So I'll let you get us
kicked off with this one. I knowyou got a couple, that one's
definitely not toddlers. Iremember when they were on your
end.
But let's talk about this. Somepeople may not know. Some
people, you know, they may have1, 2, or or multiple children,
and they think that the onlything they can do is check that
box, you know, when it comestime for tax preparation saying
(04:24):
that they have dependents. Solet's talk about some of these
top 3 or not say some of them.Let's talk about the top three
tax strategies for parents.
Chris Piccurrio (04:33):
Yes. So there are many tax strategies for
parents. We're gonna focus onparents of younger children, at
this point. You know, some ofthese could actually could be
used for older children, butthese are gonna be parents of
younger children, let's say, age20 and and and younger. So the
first one, John, in noparticular order, of course,
(04:55):
would be con contributing to aRoth IRA.
Now we know oh, shameless plug.There's an episode about Roth
IRA conversions. There's anepisode about difference between
tax free income and growth andtax deferred. So if you are
scratching your head right nowthinking, dang. I missed those
(05:16):
episodes.
Pause and go download those andthrow a 5 star review in. But
let's move forward. On the RothRoth contribution, you might be
thinking, that's an odd one.Well, I want you guys to think
about this. You know, we knowthat that it's very important
for tax free money to grow taxfree and tax deferred.
(05:37):
So let me paint a picture. Let'ssay your child works you know, I
I have my oldest child. He's 5thjust turned 15. He just applied
for a job at Kroger. Okay?
Oh, I shouldn't have said thatname because they're not a
sponsor of this podcast,although they should deeply
consider that. That being said,there's something, and I
(05:58):
mentioned this before, calledthe rule of 72. And that means
that you take your average rateof return divided that or 72 by
that number and you get theamount of time it takes money to
double. So if the average ratereturns 8%, every 9 years, money
will double. So if my son's 15years old, that money will
(06:20):
double 5 times before he's 60.
Right? So now at 5 times let'ssay he worked at Kroger, made 3
grand. And I say, alright. I'mgonna put $2,000 into a Roth IRA
for in his behalf. Now thisworks because he has something
called earned income.
So if he's self employed or hasw two wages, now he can
(06:43):
contribute that much to a Roth.There's no tax benefit today for
contributing to $2,000, but he'snot paying any federal tax on
that anyway. But that $2,000doubled 5 times would be 4, 8,
16, 32, $64,000 in a Rothaccount tax free for him just
for that contribution now. Socontributing to a Roth IRA for
(07:08):
your child is the first of 3parent tax strategies that I
would deeply consider. Nowthere's there's another aspect
to this.
A sub a a sub strategy would beif yourself if you own a
business or you're selfemployed, many people have
children that work in thebusiness, and assuming the child
(07:30):
is doing a a job that and theythey're paid fairly, there's
income shifting to that child,which could help your tax
situation, meaning taking itfrom your marginal tax rate,
that income, into the child'smarginal tax rate. That paired
with contributing to a Roth canalso be very powerful. So
remember that Roth IRA, you haveto make sure you have earned
(07:53):
income, but it grows tax freeand tax deferred until a
qualified distribution.
John Tripolsky (07:57):
And, Chris, too, I could be wrong on this one,
but there is no age minimum fora Roth. Correct? So it could be
1 year, 6 months, 19 years.Correct? Absolutely.
You are correct, John. As longas the the child has earned
income. And the so this couldreally be one of those that, you
(08:19):
could start earlier on inthings. Because obviously, like
you had mentioned, kind of a, asub benefit or however you
referenced it as, you know,paying a, paying a a child for
working within your businessisn't really feasible if you own
a auto repair shop and you havea a 1 year old. Right?
The 1 year old's probably notdoing legitimate work in there,
(08:40):
so you don't wanna poke thebear. But doing the Roth,
obviously, that's a legitimatelegitimate strategy.
Chris Piccurrio (08:46):
Absolutely. I mean, you could have a child, I
would say, probably as early as,you know, 10, 11, and up if you
had an auto repair shop thatcould could potentially help
out. Now they might not be doingthe repairs, but they could they
could be bringing you know,being there in the office with
you when you're there. Maybethey're bringing you, you know,
when you're out of the vehicle,bringing you some tools,
learning, helping out with somebasic oil changes, little stuff
(09:08):
like that. It's it's absolutelypossible that you would you
could have legitimate employmentfor those those children.
John Tripolsky (09:15):
Or it's paybacks. Right? When those kids
were always like, I want milk. Iwant a bottle. I want this.
It's you know, you go grab me abeverage from the fridge. Not
legit. I didn't say that, did I?That's awful. Awful parenting
tip.
Chris Piccurrio (09:30):
Well, that so that for Roth contributions
could be very, very powerful. Sothat is that is a great
strategy, and essentially thattax free income and growth could
be amazing. So the second onepertains to education. We have a
lot of content out there. We geta ton of questions on, college
(09:52):
savings plans, and those arereferred to as 529 plans.
So a 529 plan is a tax advantagesavings plan designed to
encourage saving for your futureeducational costs. Now it used
to be where those educationalcosts had to be higher
educational costs, meaningcollege or trade school, but now
you could actually take 5 29plain distributions, I believe,
(10:14):
up to $10,000 per year forprivate school tuition. Now like
a Roth, contributions in the 529 plain grow tax deferred, and
as long as you withdraw it forqualified expenses, they're tax
free. So you don't have to haveearned income for the 5 29 plan
contribution, and anyone cancontribute to someone's 529
(10:36):
plan. So once your child onceyou have a child, creating a 529
plan account is a is a good taxplanning tool, and especially
when they're really young, John,and you know they don't have any
concept, 1, 2, 3 years old ofmaybe at 3 they realize they're
getting a toy for their toy or,Opus stuffed animal, when family
(10:57):
members give them birthday giftsor holiday gifts or whatever
type of gift, it's really nicewhen you can slap that into a 5
29 plan and allow it to grow taxdeferred and this and then,
essentially, tax free.
Awesome. Awesome. And that'sanother good one, you know, that
John Tripolsky (11:15):
I think a lot of people, you know, probably don't
think about. Really, it's youknow, maybe they see it
mentioned in a publication or ona podcast like this. And really,
like everything else we do here,our goal is really just get it
out, you know, get thisinformation in people's hand or
I should say in their hands andtheir ears, and get the get the
wheels turning. Right? Becausethis all falls into, you know,
what we always talk about atteaching tax law and that's tax
(11:38):
planning and strategy.
So part of that plan isobviously knowing what you can
and what you can't do and whenyou can do it and when you can't
do it. And all this really say,marries into a bigger picture,
but it does. Right? It's allit's all a cog in the tax
planning wheel, if we will.
Chris Piccurrio (11:56):
So Yes. And with 5 29 plans, it's important
to remember that typically theparent is the account owner. The
child is the beneficiary. So ifyou have 3 children, you could
have, like, we my wife and I dohave 3529 plans. It's also
important to remember that youcan change the beneficiary
without tax implications.
So let's say your child is is,you know, doesn't doesn't
(12:19):
utilize the money or let's saythey're, you know, baseball star
and they get a full scholarship.You could you could just change
the beneficiary on that or youcan you know, if they end up
having a family, you can moveone of their children into the
beneficiary role. And, actually,there's a there's a a new rule
(12:39):
that came out, and that's alittle restricted. You have to
have the assets in the 5 29 planfor at least 15 years. So the we
we might dive into that onanother episode, where where you
can actually convert the 529plan assets into a Roth IRA.
Again, these are this is somenew there's there's a very new
rule and there's some guidancestill coming out on that, But
(13:01):
the the theme is this with the529 plan contributions is
there's much more flexibilitynow than there was before. When
those plans first came out, theywere designated for typically
tuition and fees, and and nowthe expansion of what we
consider an educational costcould include technology. You
(13:21):
know, college kids don't reallybuy books anymore. A lot of
times, they just buy an ebook orthey buy the course, materials
online, but also the ability totake some of that money out of 5
29 plans and use it for privatehigh school, private middle
school, or elementary school.Now there's some limitations,
but that's a huge, that's a hugewin, I think, for 5 29 plan
(13:46):
owners.
And, honestly, what I found inworking with clients for way too
many years is that when whensomeone establishes a 5 29 plan
for their child, typicallygrandma, grandpa, maybe the
great uncle, is a little moregenerous during the holidays if
they know the money is goingtowards an educational plan.
John Tripolsky (14:07):
And, you know, it's not like they're gonna run
into the bank with a couple 100pennies, but they might. You
know? So you bring up a goodpoint too, Chris. I think just
the, you know, from thebeneficiary, aka the the child
standpoint, but also the the, Iguess, you say that I don't even
know what the term is. What iscalled grandparents or parents?
Chris Piccurrio (14:27):
No. They're the beneficiary with the
John Tripolsky (14:29):
So who's who's the one that actually gives it
then, actually? So if there's athis is a really dumb question
that either I'm having acomplete brain freeze on or
what, but there's a beneficiary.But then who's the person that's
giving it? It's like a not abeneficial or, obviously, isn't
the right term.
Chris Piccurrio (14:43):
It'd be a, I guess, a a contributor.
John Tripolsky (14:46):
There you go. Really?
Chris Piccurrio (14:47):
So So you would contribute to the plan. There's
another special rule, John,because there are some rules
with gift taxing. We're gonnaactually talk about that in a
moment. But there's a so,typically, you can only gift
someone approximately 15,000,$16,000 per year without having
any type of gift taximplications. That being said,
(15:08):
if someone was to contribute$50,000, let's say, right, that
would be over the gift taxexclusion for a given year.
That being said, there's aspecial rule with 529 plans,
that you can take that gift andaverage it over 5 years. And so
in that case, you would say it'sthe $50,000 gift, It'd be
(15:30):
$10,000 per year, and now you'veyou haven't gone over that gift
tax exemption, which we're gonnatalk about next. Good segue.
John Tripolsky (15:37):
And that's a great piece of advice, and we
yeah. We won't dive into that.We'll talk about that in our in
our next little segment here,but that's also something I
think that, you know, peoplemyself included a while ago.
Right? Like, we didn't if youdon't know that there is a limit
on that, right, you you could goway over, but then it's almost
until it's too late.
(15:58):
And then you're you know,obviously, there's tax involved
in that, which, again, moral ofthe story is to keep the taxes
or keep the dollars in yourpocket, not shelling them out or
making it rain obviously on theInternal Revenue Service. So
let's let's dive into that one.So so number 3, I know we talked
about it before we jumped onthis recording, is very
(16:20):
interesting because it issomething that is utilized a
lot. Sometimes, I wouldn't sayunintentionally, but I think
there's a lot of questions onthis one specifically. People
know it's know it exists, butthey might not know a lot of the
information limitations,etcetera, around it.
So I look forward to this one.
Chris Piccurrio (16:39):
Right. Right. So the final one might seem odd,
but it's not, is gift, giftingassets to a child. So that has
potentially positiveimplications on on both parties.
Let's talk about the persongiving the gift.
Each year, someone can give, andthis is in for 2014, up to
(17:00):
$18,000 per year. Now this isalways this changes each year.
It's indexed for inflation, butit's in general indexed for
inflation, not officially, butit's it's in the tax law that it
goes up each year and it getsadjusted. But $18,000 per year
could be gifted to a, to anyone.So a grandparent, a parent could
(17:20):
gift 18,000 without having toreport anything tax wise.
It's just under what we call theannual exemption amount. Okay?
So that's so that could be astrategy. Then there's a
lifetime, estate tax. Right?
There's an estate tax exemption.And if you go over the $18,000 a
(17:45):
year of gifting, then you starteating at your lifetime estate
tax exemption. Now that estatetax exemption is at the highest
it's ever been. It's about 13and a half $1,000,000. So not
too many people are runningaround with that amount, that
they're concerned about hittingthat state tax exemption.
(18:05):
That being said, as early as2011, the estate tax exemption
was $5,000,000. So once the TaxCuts and Jobs Act passed, it
doubled. And there's a chance itgoes down. Right? Because we
know the the government is is,is in debt quite a bit.
And when they look at how to taxpeople, it's a lot easier for
(18:25):
laws to pass to tax people thathave passed away than people
that are living. It's just justeasier to pass those laws.
Right? It's easier to getsupport out of those. So the
point is if you have asignificant amount of assets in
your estate and you don't wantand you're trying to get under
that estate tax exemption,because if you're over it when
you pass away, you're gonna pay,depending on what state you live
(18:47):
in, up to a 50% tax.
Then gifting those assets to ato a a child starts making
sense. So you're getting you'reyou're taking that out of your
state tax exposure. Even thoughthat limit's over 13,000,000
now, we have an there's anelection year, It could be a
third of that next year.Reasonably. I mean, and so
(19:10):
that's why gifting could workfor the person giving the gift.
Now there's other advantagestoo. The person getting the gift
does not have a negativeconsequence. They just inherit
the prop. They just have theprop. Now remember when we did
our episode on step up in basis,we talked about some positives
and minuses of assets.
Typically, you're gonna wanna dothis with cash, potentially
(19:33):
appreciated assets, and I'mgonna explain that in a moment.
So gifting strategy number 3.The another advantage for the
child would be that they are ingeneral in a lower marginal tax
bracket than the than the parentgiving the gift. So if the child
(19:54):
is paying tax, on a capitalgain, for instance, instead of
the parent, that tax could besignificantly less. So that's
where there's a couple things.
There's that estate tax. Youknow, we see legally and
ethically reduce the tax you payin your lifetime. It's not all
about income tax. It could beabout estate tax as well. So
(20:16):
this is a good estate taxplanning strategy, then
potentially shifting the capitalgains.
Because let's say I bought astock for $10 and it's worth a
$100 per share, and now I giftit to my child and my child
sells it. My child actuallyreports the $90,000 worth of
income, not me. So there's someadvantages as far as maybe
shifting capital gains to achild or creating something
(20:40):
called a custodial account,something called an UGMA or
ATMAA, which stands for universegift uniform gifts to minors act
or uniform transfers to minorsact. So those are the those type
of are the types of accountsthat are typically used when
assets are gifted to a child.Now the one thing I'm gonna say,
there's a funny word, John.
When I told you about this, youchuckled. There is something
(21:02):
called a kiddie tax. There arespecial kiddie tax rules that
could have a negativeconsequence with the strategy
that they they that goes beyondthe scope of this podcast, but
gifting could have a positiveestate and income tax, effect on
(21:22):
someone's situation.
John Tripolsky (21:25):
Awesome. Awesome. Well, I'm glad we hit
on these 3. Honestly, again, youknow, as I mentioned a little
bit earlier on too, it's it'svery important, I think, for
people to understand these. Evenif it's something that you say,
you know what?
I'm not gonna do this right now,but I'm gonna do it next year.
I'm gonna do it in 2 years.Chris, you made a really, really
good point of, you know, thesecould change, especially during
(21:45):
an election year that thesecould change significantly.
Right? So, again, I I know wementioned this in a lot of
episodes, you know, when whenyou consider tax planning as,
you know, a a task, if you will.
So, I mean, it's very important.The the out the outcome of it is
tremendous if done right, butit's not something that you can
just kinda set it and forget it.You can't say, you know what?
(22:06):
I'm gonna do this for my child,with my child in 5 years from
now, but then you don't payattention to it for 5 years
because heck in 2, 3 years, even1 year, it may almost become
irrelevant to the bigger picturefor your situation. So I I
really appreciate diving intothese 3, you know, as a as a
parent of my little toddler.
(22:27):
There's always something fun inthat mix.
Chris Piccurrio (22:30):
Oh, my my pleasure, John. And I just want
you to think about this. Youknow, we could probably post in
the show notes some informationabout the estate tax. John, as
early as 20 years ago, theestate tax was $1,000,000,
estate tax exemption, with theestate top estate tax rate at
50%. And I want you to thinkabout these are real stories
(22:51):
where imagine a couple a amature aged couple lives in San
Diego, California.
They don't have much as far asassets. Right? Maybe they got
they have a couple $100,000.They're on Social Security. They
bought a home for 300,000 30, 40years ago.
Right? Well, now that house isworth 2 and a half $1,000,000.
They pass away. Okay? Theirestate owes tax on $1,500,000
(23:18):
well, it actually more than thatif they have 200,000.
So let's say it's in an IRA, sonow they've got 2 $700,000 of
assets. They're gonna owe a 50%tax on $1,700,000. Half of
1,700,000 is a lot of money. So6, 6 1.7 a lot of them, $850,000
(23:40):
And if they take any money outof their IRA, it's their the
state's gonna pay tax on it.That's where it gets scary.
Right? Even though that statetax exemption maximum is high
right now, it can go down in ahurry. Now and that's why I'm
gonna not to plug anotherepisode, but a lot of times when
you have a situation like that,you can hedge against the estate
(24:01):
tax by by purchasing lifeinsurance, and that life
insurance policy now securesthat family property and and it
is really there to pay theestate tax. So I can't stress
more. If you have questions, weare here to help.
We don't we love doing thispodcast, but we're we're doing
it as a service, as a givingback to people, our listeners
(24:22):
and our teaching tax lawcommunity because,
unfortunately, just financialand and tax education and
literacy is just not taught asmuch as it should be. Spot on.
Spot on. And Chris to
John Tripolsky (24:35):
that point too as we wrap up here, a little
birdie told me that teaching taxflow may have just created a
LinkedIn private group. So Idon't know where that I I have
no idea where that news camefrom. It just fell from a tree.
Right?
Chris Piccurrio (24:49):
We'll have to put that in the show notes,
John, and get that out. I Ithink that would be a great idea
to do.
John Tripolsky (24:55):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And we literally
just did it, folks. So there yougo. Like, within a matter of an
hour of now.
So by the time you listen tothis tomorrow morning, it won't
even be 24 years old. Unlikethis, being episode 76, I don't
you can't even really calculatedog years if something's 76
because what's the dog? Like, a1000 years old? I think most dog
(25:16):
year calculators stop at, like,20 or something. So all joking
aside, I know we're talkingabout dependence.
You should be very dependent onthe next couple episodes. We got
a couple great ones coming up.Everybody be on the lookout for
those. As always, we will seeyou back here next week, same
time, different topic here onthe Teaching Tax Flow podcast.
(25:41):
Hey, everybody.
John Tripolsky here fromTeaching Tax Flow team. Thanks
for hanging out with Chris andmyself here again on episode 76
as we really, you know, doveinto those top three strategies
for parents. So, you know, alljoking aside, as as I mentioned
earlier, you know, we I will saywe always poke fun at our little
ones. Right? But, you know, theyare they are very dependent on
us, and, you know, we could do alot for them.
(26:03):
So go back and share thisepisode if you will, but listen
to it a couple times, you know,the the topics we touched on it,
obviously, we just skimmed theservice. There's a lot of detail
we could go in on each and everyone of those and stressing it
one more time before we let yougo. Things change, they could
change often, and they couldchange very, very drastically.
So be sure to consult your taxprofessional on any questions
(26:26):
you have or drop us a line onsocial media, that private
Facebook group. And asmentioned, if you look below or
to the side, usually to theright or right below us, here,
that link to that new LinkedIngroup.
So be sure to join either ofthose, and always, the only dumb
question is the question thatgoes unasked. So we will see you
(26:46):
next week.
Disclaimer (26:57):
The content provided is for educational purposes
only. We encourage you to seekpersonalized investment advice
from your financialprofessional. For all tax and
legal advice, please consultyour CPA or attorney. Investment
advisory services are offeredthrough Cabin Advisors, a
registered investment adviser.Securities are offered through
Cabin securities, a registeredbroker dealer.
The content of this podcast doesnot constitute an offer of
(27:19):
securities. Offerings can onlybe made through an offering
memorandum, and you shouldcarefully examine the risk
factors and other informationcontained in the memorandum.
Welcome to the Teaching Tax Flow podcast, where
the goal is to empower andeducate you to legally and
ethically minimize taxes paidover your lifetime.
Welcome back to the podcast,everybody. Today on episode 76,
we are gonna look at those topthree parental tax strategies.
(00:25):
So before we do that, as always,let's take a brief moment and
thank our episode sponsor.
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John Tripolsky (01:19):
Welcome back to the podcast, everybody. Exactly
as I said here in that intro.But as always, we have a great
topic we are gonna look attoday, especially related to
those who are parents. So it'sabout time those kids start
paying you back a little bit,you know, as, they always make
you feed them and take care ofthem. And, frankly, you gotta
keep those little buggers alive,you know, from from birth till,
(01:42):
well, some of us, until you getmuch, much older.
But without further ado, let'sdive into this very, very
interesting topic to me becauseI have a toddler, of course. So,
Chris Pacquero, welcome back,man. How you doing?
Chris Piccurrio (01:56):
I am amazing. How are you doing, mister Johnny
t?
John Tripolsky (02:00):
Hey. I'm doing good, man. I got you know, my
little toddler's at daycareright now, probably, you know,
finger painting all overherself. So it's a it's a good
topic I think we're gonna touchon today.
Chris Piccurrio (02:10):
Well, John John, interestingly enough,
we've had many conversationsabout the day care situation and
how you absolutely love all thenotifications of everything that
your daughter does. And youcould love when your phone goes
off every time she sneezes andthe daycare is letting you know
that she ate 4 of her 6 appleslices and kindly threw the
(02:31):
other 2 away in a napkin.
John Tripolsky (02:33):
Hey. It's better than, you know, she ate 4 out of
6 of her boogers. So let'salthough I'm sure though you
know what? I this is awful toadmit this, you know, that.
Usually, those notifications areoff only because, again, we know
that our wives do not listen tothis show, or at least let's
hope they don't because I willbe in trouble after this one.
I always know my wife babysitsthat app, and she loves every
(02:55):
notification that goes off. Soif it's, you know, an urgent
thing, like, you know, she felloff a swing or, you know, she
ate a rock or something likethat, my wife will call me and
then
Chris Piccurrio (03:03):
I can say, oh, yeah. I see that. I'm right on
it. So kinda play into it. ButExactly.
We know we know that usuallythere's one parent that's a
that's a little more tuned in tothe to the micro activities of
the toddlers. That you
John Tripolsky (03:20):
know what? I think we mentioned this in our,
our event that we did last week.So it was the, you know, the q
and a with the CPA, which thankyou everybody that chimed in for
that, all of our premiummembers. Great, great, event
again as always. And, Chris, Ithink we refer to a lot of
things as situationallydependent.
Right? Correct. So instead ofsaying, oh, well, it depends.
(03:41):
Right? So, you know, now that Iget in these conversations, it's
like, well, you know,situationally dependent.
Let's talk about those little, II was gonna say something else.
But the little people that aredependent on us for their
well-being. So let's let's tiethis in. Obviously, this is a
tax related podcast. So let'stalk about, we'll call it tax
(04:02):
benefits, tax opportunities,etcetera in here.
But I know we got 3 of them.Them. So I'll let you get us
kicked off with this one. I knowyou got a couple, that one's
definitely not toddlers. Iremember when they were on your
end.
But let's talk about this. Somepeople may not know. Some
people, you know, they may have1, 2, or or multiple children,
and they think that the onlything they can do is check that
box, you know, when it comestime for tax preparation saying
(04:24):
that they have dependents. Solet's talk about some of these
top 3 or not say some of them.Let's talk about the top three
tax strategies for parents.
Chris Piccurrio (04:33):
Yes. So there are many tax strategies for
parents. We're gonna focus onparents of younger children, at
this point. You know, some ofthese could actually could be
used for older children, butthese are gonna be parents of
younger children, let's say, age20 and and and younger. So the
first one, John, in noparticular order, of course,
(04:55):
would be con contributing to aRoth IRA.
Now we know oh, shameless plug.There's an episode about Roth
IRA conversions. There's anepisode about difference between
tax free income and growth andtax deferred. So if you are
scratching your head right nowthinking, dang. I missed those
(05:16):
episodes.
Pause and go download those andthrow a 5 star review in. But
let's move forward. On the RothRoth contribution, you might be
thinking, that's an odd one.Well, I want you guys to think
about this. You know, we knowthat that it's very important
for tax free money to grow taxfree and tax deferred.
(05:37):
So let me paint a picture. Let'ssay your child works you know, I
I have my oldest child. He's 5thjust turned 15. He just applied
for a job at Kroger. Okay?
Oh, I shouldn't have said thatname because they're not a
sponsor of this podcast,although they should deeply
consider that. That being said,there's something, and I
(05:58):
mentioned this before, calledthe rule of 72. And that means
that you take your average rateof return divided that or 72 by
that number and you get theamount of time it takes money to
double. So if the average ratereturns 8%, every 9 years, money
will double. So if my son's 15years old, that money will
(06:20):
double 5 times before he's 60.
Right? So now at 5 times let'ssay he worked at Kroger, made 3
grand. And I say, alright. I'mgonna put $2,000 into a Roth IRA
for in his behalf. Now thisworks because he has something
called earned income.
So if he's self employed or hasw two wages, now he can
(06:43):
contribute that much to a Roth.There's no tax benefit today for
contributing to $2,000, but he'snot paying any federal tax on
that anyway. But that $2,000doubled 5 times would be 4, 8,
16, 32, $64,000 in a Rothaccount tax free for him just
for that contribution now. Socontributing to a Roth IRA for
(07:08):
your child is the first of 3parent tax strategies that I
would deeply consider. Nowthere's there's another aspect
to this.
A sub a a sub strategy would beif yourself if you own a
business or you're selfemployed, many people have
children that work in thebusiness, and assuming the child
(07:30):
is doing a a job that and theythey're paid fairly, there's
income shifting to that child,which could help your tax
situation, meaning taking itfrom your marginal tax rate,
that income, into the child'smarginal tax rate. That paired
with contributing to a Roth canalso be very powerful. So
remember that Roth IRA, you haveto make sure you have earned
(07:53):
income, but it grows tax freeand tax deferred until a
qualified distribution.
John Tripolsky (07:57):
And, Chris, too, I could be wrong on this one,
but there is no age minimum fora Roth. Correct? So it could be
1 year, 6 months, 19 years.Correct? Absolutely.
You are correct, John. As longas the the child has earned
income. And the so this couldreally be one of those that, you
(08:19):
could start earlier on inthings. Because obviously, like
you had mentioned, kind of a, asub benefit or however you
referenced it as, you know,paying a, paying a a child for
working within your businessisn't really feasible if you own
a auto repair shop and you havea a 1 year old. Right?
The 1 year old's probably notdoing legitimate work in there,
(08:40):
so you don't wanna poke thebear. But doing the Roth,
obviously, that's a legitimatelegitimate strategy.
Chris Piccurrio (08:46):
Absolutely. I mean, you could have a child, I
would say, probably as early as,you know, 10, 11, and up if you
had an auto repair shop thatcould could potentially help
out. Now they might not be doingthe repairs, but they could they
could be bringing you know,being there in the office with
you when you're there. Maybethey're bringing you, you know,
when you're out of the vehicle,bringing you some tools,
learning, helping out with somebasic oil changes, little stuff
(09:08):
like that. It's it's absolutelypossible that you would you
could have legitimate employmentfor those those children.
John Tripolsky (09:15):
Or it's paybacks. Right? When those kids
were always like, I want milk. Iwant a bottle. I want this.
It's you know, you go grab me abeverage from the fridge. Not
legit. I didn't say that, did I?That's awful. Awful parenting
tip.
Chris Piccurrio (09:30):
Well, that so that for Roth contributions
could be very, very powerful. Sothat is that is a great
strategy, and essentially thattax free income and growth could
be amazing. So the second onepertains to education. We have a
lot of content out there. We geta ton of questions on, college
(09:52):
savings plans, and those arereferred to as 529 plans.
So a 529 plan is a tax advantagesavings plan designed to
encourage saving for your futureeducational costs. Now it used
to be where those educationalcosts had to be higher
educational costs, meaningcollege or trade school, but now
you could actually take 5 29plain distributions, I believe,
(10:14):
up to $10,000 per year forprivate school tuition. Now like
a Roth, contributions in the 529 plain grow tax deferred, and
as long as you withdraw it forqualified expenses, they're tax
free. So you don't have to haveearned income for the 5 29 plan
contribution, and anyone cancontribute to someone's 529
(10:36):
plan. So once your child onceyou have a child, creating a 529
plan account is a is a good taxplanning tool, and especially
when they're really young, John,and you know they don't have any
concept, 1, 2, 3 years old ofmaybe at 3 they realize they're
getting a toy for their toy or,Opus stuffed animal, when family
(10:57):
members give them birthday giftsor holiday gifts or whatever
type of gift, it's really nicewhen you can slap that into a 5
29 plan and allow it to grow taxdeferred and this and then,
essentially, tax free.
Awesome. Awesome. And that'sanother good one, you know, that
John Tripolsky (11:15):
I think a lot of people, you know, probably don't
think about. Really, it's youknow, maybe they see it
mentioned in a publication or ona podcast like this. And really,
like everything else we do here,our goal is really just get it
out, you know, get thisinformation in people's hand or
I should say in their hands andtheir ears, and get the get the
wheels turning. Right? Becausethis all falls into, you know,
what we always talk about atteaching tax law and that's tax
(11:38):
planning and strategy.
So part of that plan isobviously knowing what you can
and what you can't do and whenyou can do it and when you can't
do it. And all this really say,marries into a bigger picture,
but it does. Right? It's allit's all a cog in the tax
planning wheel, if we will.
Chris Piccurrio (11:56):
So Yes. And with 5 29 plans, it's important
to remember that typically theparent is the account owner. The
child is the beneficiary. So ifyou have 3 children, you could
have, like, we my wife and I dohave 3529 plans. It's also
important to remember that youcan change the beneficiary
without tax implications.
So let's say your child is is,you know, doesn't doesn't
(12:19):
utilize the money or let's saythey're, you know, baseball star
and they get a full scholarship.You could you could just change
the beneficiary on that or youcan you know, if they end up
having a family, you can moveone of their children into the
beneficiary role. And, actually,there's a there's a a new rule
(12:39):
that came out, and that's alittle restricted. You have to
have the assets in the 5 29 planfor at least 15 years. So the we
we might dive into that onanother episode, where where you
can actually convert the 529plan assets into a Roth IRA.
Again, these are this is somenew there's there's a very new
rule and there's some guidancestill coming out on that, But
(13:01):
the the theme is this with the529 plan contributions is
there's much more flexibilitynow than there was before. When
those plans first came out, theywere designated for typically
tuition and fees, and and nowthe expansion of what we
consider an educational costcould include technology. You
(13:21):
know, college kids don't reallybuy books anymore. A lot of
times, they just buy an ebook orthey buy the course, materials
online, but also the ability totake some of that money out of 5
29 plans and use it for privatehigh school, private middle
school, or elementary school.Now there's some limitations,
but that's a huge, that's a hugewin, I think, for 5 29 plan
(13:46):
owners.
And, honestly, what I found inworking with clients for way too
many years is that when whensomeone establishes a 5 29 plan
for their child, typicallygrandma, grandpa, maybe the
great uncle, is a little moregenerous during the holidays if
they know the money is goingtowards an educational plan.
John Tripolsky (14:07):
And, you know, it's not like they're gonna run
into the bank with a couple 100pennies, but they might. You
know? So you bring up a goodpoint too, Chris. I think just
the, you know, from thebeneficiary, aka the the child
standpoint, but also the the, Iguess, you say that I don't even
know what the term is. What iscalled grandparents or parents?
Chris Piccurrio (14:27):
No. They're the beneficiary with the
John Tripolsky (14:29):
So who's who's the one that actually gives it
then, actually? So if there's athis is a really dumb question
that either I'm having acomplete brain freeze on or
what, but there's a beneficiary.But then who's the person that's
giving it? It's like a not abeneficial or, obviously, isn't
the right term.
Chris Piccurrio (14:43):
It'd be a, I guess, a a contributor.
John Tripolsky (14:46):
There you go. Really?
Chris Piccurrio (14:47):
So So you would contribute to the plan. There's
another special rule, John,because there are some rules
with gift taxing. We're gonnaactually talk about that in a
moment. But there's a so,typically, you can only gift
someone approximately 15,000,$16,000 per year without having
any type of gift taximplications. That being said,
(15:08):
if someone was to contribute$50,000, let's say, right, that
would be over the gift taxexclusion for a given year.
That being said, there's aspecial rule with 529 plans,
that you can take that gift andaverage it over 5 years. And so
in that case, you would say it'sthe $50,000 gift, It'd be
(15:30):
$10,000 per year, and now you'veyou haven't gone over that gift
tax exemption, which we're gonnatalk about next. Good segue.
John Tripolsky (15:37):
And that's a great piece of advice, and we
yeah. We won't dive into that.We'll talk about that in our in
our next little segment here,but that's also something I
think that, you know, peoplemyself included a while ago.
Right? Like, we didn't if youdon't know that there is a limit
on that, right, you you could goway over, but then it's almost
until it's too late.
(15:58):
And then you're you know,obviously, there's tax involved
in that, which, again, moral ofthe story is to keep the taxes
or keep the dollars in yourpocket, not shelling them out or
making it rain obviously on theInternal Revenue Service. So
let's let's dive into that one.So so number 3, I know we talked
about it before we jumped onthis recording, is very
(16:20):
interesting because it issomething that is utilized a
lot. Sometimes, I wouldn't sayunintentionally, but I think
there's a lot of questions onthis one specifically. People
know it's know it exists, butthey might not know a lot of the
information limitations,etcetera, around it.
So I look forward to this one.
Chris Piccurrio (16:39):
Right. Right. So the final one might seem odd,
but it's not, is gift, giftingassets to a child. So that has
potentially positiveimplications on on both parties.
Let's talk about the persongiving the gift.
Each year, someone can give, andthis is in for 2014, up to
(17:00):
$18,000 per year. Now this isalways this changes each year.
It's indexed for inflation, butit's in general indexed for
inflation, not officially, butit's it's in the tax law that it
goes up each year and it getsadjusted. But $18,000 per year
could be gifted to a, to anyone.So a grandparent, a parent could
(17:20):
gift 18,000 without having toreport anything tax wise.
It's just under what we call theannual exemption amount. Okay?
So that's so that could be astrategy. Then there's a
lifetime, estate tax. Right?
There's an estate tax exemption.And if you go over the $18,000 a
(17:45):
year of gifting, then you starteating at your lifetime estate
tax exemption. Now that estatetax exemption is at the highest
it's ever been. It's about 13and a half $1,000,000. So not
too many people are runningaround with that amount, that
they're concerned about hittingthat state tax exemption.
(18:05):
That being said, as early as2011, the estate tax exemption
was $5,000,000. So once the TaxCuts and Jobs Act passed, it
doubled. And there's a chance itgoes down. Right? Because we
know the the government is is,is in debt quite a bit.
And when they look at how to taxpeople, it's a lot easier for
(18:25):
laws to pass to tax people thathave passed away than people
that are living. It's just justeasier to pass those laws.
Right? It's easier to getsupport out of those. So the
point is if you have asignificant amount of assets in
your estate and you don't wantand you're trying to get under
that estate tax exemption,because if you're over it when
you pass away, you're gonna pay,depending on what state you live
(18:47):
in, up to a 50% tax.
Then gifting those assets to ato a a child starts making
sense. So you're getting you'reyou're taking that out of your
state tax exposure. Even thoughthat limit's over 13,000,000
now, we have an there's anelection year, It could be a
third of that next year.Reasonably. I mean, and so
(19:10):
that's why gifting could workfor the person giving the gift.
Now there's other advantagestoo. The person getting the gift
does not have a negativeconsequence. They just inherit
the prop. They just have theprop. Now remember when we did
our episode on step up in basis,we talked about some positives
and minuses of assets.
Typically, you're gonna wanna dothis with cash, potentially
(19:33):
appreciated assets, and I'mgonna explain that in a moment.
So gifting strategy number 3.The another advantage for the
child would be that they are ingeneral in a lower marginal tax
bracket than the than the parentgiving the gift. So if the child
(19:54):
is paying tax, on a capitalgain, for instance, instead of
the parent, that tax could besignificantly less. So that's
where there's a couple things.
There's that estate tax. Youknow, we see legally and
ethically reduce the tax you payin your lifetime. It's not all
about income tax. It could beabout estate tax as well. So
(20:16):
this is a good estate taxplanning strategy, then
potentially shifting the capitalgains.
Because let's say I bought astock for $10 and it's worth a
$100 per share, and now I giftit to my child and my child
sells it. My child actuallyreports the $90,000 worth of
income, not me. So there's someadvantages as far as maybe
shifting capital gains to achild or creating something
(20:40):
called a custodial account,something called an UGMA or
ATMAA, which stands for universegift uniform gifts to minors act
or uniform transfers to minorsact. So those are the those type
of are the types of accountsthat are typically used when
assets are gifted to a child.Now the one thing I'm gonna say,
there's a funny word, John.
When I told you about this, youchuckled. There is something
(21:02):
called a kiddie tax. There arespecial kiddie tax rules that
could have a negativeconsequence with the strategy
that they they that goes beyondthe scope of this podcast, but
gifting could have a positiveestate and income tax, effect on
(21:22):
someone's situation.
John Tripolsky (21:25):
Awesome. Awesome. Well, I'm glad we hit
on these 3. Honestly, again, youknow, as I mentioned a little
bit earlier on too, it's it'svery important, I think, for
people to understand these. Evenif it's something that you say,
you know what?
I'm not gonna do this right now,but I'm gonna do it next year.
I'm gonna do it in 2 years.Chris, you made a really, really
good point of, you know, thesecould change, especially during
(21:45):
an election year that thesecould change significantly.
Right? So, again, I I know wementioned this in a lot of
episodes, you know, when whenyou consider tax planning as,
you know, a a task, if you will.
So, I mean, it's very important.The the out the outcome of it is
tremendous if done right, butit's not something that you can
just kinda set it and forget it.You can't say, you know what?
(22:06):
I'm gonna do this for my child,with my child in 5 years from
now, but then you don't payattention to it for 5 years
because heck in 2, 3 years, even1 year, it may almost become
irrelevant to the bigger picturefor your situation. So I I
really appreciate diving intothese 3, you know, as a as a
parent of my little toddler.
(22:27):
There's always something fun inthat mix.
Chris Piccurrio (22:30):
Oh, my my pleasure, John. And I just want
you to think about this. Youknow, we could probably post in
the show notes some informationabout the estate tax. John, as
early as 20 years ago, theestate tax was $1,000,000,
estate tax exemption, with theestate top estate tax rate at
50%. And I want you to thinkabout these are real stories
(22:51):
where imagine a couple a amature aged couple lives in San
Diego, California.
They don't have much as far asassets. Right? Maybe they got
they have a couple $100,000.They're on Social Security. They
bought a home for 300,000 30, 40years ago.
Right? Well, now that house isworth 2 and a half $1,000,000.
They pass away. Okay? Theirestate owes tax on $1,500,000
(23:18):
well, it actually more than thatif they have 200,000.
So let's say it's in an IRA, sonow they've got 2 $700,000 of
assets. They're gonna owe a 50%tax on $1,700,000. Half of
1,700,000 is a lot of money. So6, 6 1.7 a lot of them, $850,000
(23:40):
And if they take any money outof their IRA, it's their the
state's gonna pay tax on it.That's where it gets scary.
Right? Even though that statetax exemption maximum is high
right now, it can go down in ahurry. Now and that's why I'm
gonna not to plug anotherepisode, but a lot of times when
you have a situation like that,you can hedge against the estate
(24:01):
tax by by purchasing lifeinsurance, and that life
insurance policy now securesthat family property and and it
is really there to pay theestate tax. So I can't stress
more. If you have questions, weare here to help.
We don't we love doing thispodcast, but we're we're doing
it as a service, as a givingback to people, our listeners
(24:22):
and our teaching tax lawcommunity because,
unfortunately, just financialand and tax education and
literacy is just not taught asmuch as it should be. Spot on.
Spot on. And Chris to
John Tripolsky (24:35):
that point too as we wrap up here, a little
birdie told me that teaching taxflow may have just created a
LinkedIn private group. So Idon't know where that I I have
no idea where that news camefrom. It just fell from a tree.
Right?
Chris Piccurrio (24:49):
We'll have to put that in the show notes,
John, and get that out. I Ithink that would be a great idea
to do.
John Tripolsky (24:55):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And we literally
just did it, folks. So there yougo. Like, within a matter of an
hour of now.
So by the time you listen tothis tomorrow morning, it won't
even be 24 years old. Unlikethis, being episode 76, I don't
you can't even really calculatedog years if something's 76
because what's the dog? Like, a1000 years old? I think most dog
(25:16):
year calculators stop at, like,20 or something. So all joking
aside, I know we're talkingabout dependence.
You should be very dependent onthe next couple episodes. We got
a couple great ones coming up.Everybody be on the lookout for
those. As always, we will seeyou back here next week, same
time, different topic here onthe Teaching Tax Flow podcast.
(25:41):
Hey, everybody.
John Tripolsky here fromTeaching Tax Flow team. Thanks
for hanging out with Chris andmyself here again on episode 76
as we really, you know, doveinto those top three strategies
for parents. So, you know, alljoking aside, as as I mentioned
earlier, you know, we I will saywe always poke fun at our little
ones. Right? But, you know, theyare they are very dependent on
us, and, you know, we could do alot for them.
(26:03):
So go back and share thisepisode if you will, but listen
to it a couple times, you know,the the topics we touched on it,
obviously, we just skimmed theservice. There's a lot of detail
we could go in on each and everyone of those and stressing it
one more time before we let yougo. Things change, they could
change often, and they couldchange very, very drastically.
So be sure to consult your taxprofessional on any questions
(26:26):
you have or drop us a line onsocial media, that private
Facebook group. And asmentioned, if you look below or
to the side, usually to theright or right below us, here,
that link to that new LinkedIngroup.
So be sure to join either ofthose, and always, the only dumb
question is the question thatgoes unasked. So we will see you
(26:46):
next week.
Disclaimer (26:57):
The content provided is for educational purposes
only. We encourage you to seekpersonalized investment advice
from your financialprofessional. For all tax and
legal advice, please consultyour CPA or attorney. Investment
advisory services are offeredthrough Cabin Advisors, a
registered investment adviser.Securities are offered through
Cabin securities, a registeredbroker dealer.
The content of this podcast doesnot constitute an offer of
(27:19):
securities. Offerings can onlybe made through an offering
memorandum, and you shouldcarefully examine the risk
factors and other informationcontained in the memorandum.
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