April 16, 2024 • 21 mins
Episode Summary:
In this episode of the Teaching Tax Flow podcast, Chris Picciurro steps into the spotlight as he sheds light on his day-to-day life as a tax professional. The conversation takes an intimate turn as Chris shares his journey from an entrepreneurial paperboy to becoming a knowledge powerhouse in the realm of taxes. This episode delves into the intricacies of a tax professional's world, juxtaposed with the fun banter between the hosts, making the subject accessible to listeners from all walks of life.
Chris breaks down his professional activities into three core areas: tax compliance work, advisory services, and practice management.
He emphasizes the importance of not just looking backward, akin to a review mirror but also planning forward akin to looking through a windshield, a practice modern tax professionals are increasingly embracing. From sharing how he gravitated toward the tax profession to discussing the future of accounting, this episode is rich with insights into the complexities and transformations within the tax industry.
Key Takeaways:
- The life of a tax professional extends beyond the tax season and involves a mix of compliance, advisory, and practice management.
- Chris, having over 20 years of experience, has seen a major shift in his practice from compliance-heavy work to advisory services.
- Modern tax practices are increasingly becoming virtual, emphasizing the importance of adapting to new technologies.
- Chris discusses the industry's talent gap, advocating for the profession to attract new generations into the field.
- The conversation also touches on the personal elements of Chris's life, such as his enthusiasm for pickleball.
Notable Quotes:
- "I'm more of an entrepreneur that got into running an accounting or CPA practice than a traditional."
- "It's only a problem until there's a process."
- "It's a great profession if you know someone that's interested in learning about it."
- "We're virtual on the private side. We're a virtual practice."
- "We have to make this profession more attractive."
Episode Sponsor:
Strategic Associates, LLC
Roger Roundy
www.linkedin.com/in/roger-roundy-86887b23
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro (00:04):
Welcome to the Teaching
Tax Flow podcast where the goalis to empower and educate you to
legally and ethically minimizetaxes paid over your lifetime.
John Tripolsky (00:16):
Hey, everybody, and welcome back to Teaching
Taxville, the podcast episode79. We got a good one for you
today. I am actually gonna beinterviewing technically
interviewing Chris Pacquero. SoI know you've heard his voice.
Obviously, my cohost here in thepodcast, but I get to, as
always, play the dumbest guy inthe room and ask questions of
the smart guy.
So before we get into it, asalways, let's take a very brief
(00:39):
moment and thank our episodesponsor.
Ad Read (00:43):
This podcast is brought to you by Strategic Associates.
Are you a high income earner,real estate investor, or
successful entrepreneur who isfrustrated by having to pay
$75,000 or more of annual taxliability? If so, Strategic
Associates can help. Your firststep to saving 1,000, if not 100
of 1,000, is to contact RogerRoundy at roger@strategicag.net
(01:06):
or by calling 8 016412956, andbe sure to tell them TTF sent
you.
John Tripolsky (01:15):
Alright, everybody. I've been looking
forward to this one here forlet's see. We're on episode 79,
probably 77 episodes where I getto grill this guy on what
actually goes on in his brainbesides pickleball. We'll try.
Here's a challenge.
Chris, let's not talk aboutpickleball. Well, you know what?
(01:35):
Screw that. We're we're gonnatalk about pickleball. That's
what goes on in your brain.
It's part of your daily life.But, good sir, are you ready for
this sit down interview on theday in the life of a tax pro?
Chris Picciurro (01:46):
I am, and I'm not gonna mention pickleball. I
was not going to, but, ofcourse, you did, which is fine.
And I but as much as I lovepickleball, I still have only
been playing for about 2 years,maybe a hair less, and I've been
a CPA for well over 20. So theday in the life of a tax pro, I
live it live it every day. Ilike it or not.
John Tripolsky (02:08):
Especially around this time. Right? I mean,
literally, the tax actually,Chris, what is the tax deadline
this year? I know, you know,obviously, today being April
16th, is it still the 15th everyyear, or does it kinda fluctuate
a little bit?
Chris Picciurro (02:21):
Well, as you know, John, the tax deadline is
a fictitious date, in myopinion, because you could
always file a tax extension andget 6 extra months. Sometimes it
is April 15th. This is thequote, unquote, what people call
tax day, although I do not likethat term. It is, it is so it
(02:43):
was yesterday.
John Tripolsky (02:44):
You know, I I'm gonna I'm gonna say this. If if
anybody before we get too deepinto that one, I challenge
anybody else that runs intoChris at an event to come up to
him and say, don't you just lovetax season? And I bet you I bet
you this guy carries around ataser with him. That every time
every time you hear tax season,I know your face turns extremely
(03:06):
red. You know, steam startscoming out of the ears.
I would I mean, you'll probablyjust drop somebody to the ground
every time you hear that. Right?Well, if I
Intro (03:14):
have my pickleball paddle, I'll take it out of the
bag and we'll hit them over thehead with it.
John Tripolsky (03:18):
There. Hey. You said pickleball even though I'm
the one that said it twice.There it was. So let let's get
into this a
Intro (03:24):
little bit. Alright. So April 15th is yeah. I know April
15th sometimes it falls on aweekend or we have Emancipation
Day and that deadline is bumped.But, John, I think you just had
a had a plan for me to mentionthat that's your birthday.
John Tripolsky (03:35):
It it was a bay you know what's funny though too
if, I'm kinda curious on why theIRS ended up picking that day. I
mean, obviously, it's it's avery special day for for me and
everybody in my life, but it'salso some very unfortunate days
if I remember. It's the day theTitanic hit the iceberg. It's, I
wanna say it's Adolf Hitler'sbirthday. It's the day Lincoln
(03:59):
got shot.
So it's not really a good day.Infomist day. Obviously, though.
Chris Picciurro (04:04):
Infomist day. Well, it really comes down to
the and we're the federal budgetand and with a and how their
fiscal year works. And it'sinteresting because we did an
episode on quarterly estimatedtax payments from a federal
side, and they're you know, thefirst quarter is due April 15th,
yet the second quarter is June15th, the third September 15th,
(04:25):
and then the 4th is January15th. So it's just an odd thing.
But, yeah, the the what what iscommonly referred to as tax day
or the original the tax filingdeadline or the deadline to file
an original tax return or anextension is April 15th.
That was yesterday. John, happybelated birthday, and, also,
happy birthday to my youngestchild, Luke, who's 11 today.
John Tripolsky (04:48):
That's right. That's right. And so let's take
a a step back in Chris Picurohistory, I guess. So obviously,
we we wanna extrapolate as muchinformation as possible from you
on what your daily life lookslike, right, as a tax pro. But
maybe even go back a little bitand tell us how in the world you
(05:11):
even got into this industry.
Right? Because it's it'snormally not when you hear a lot
of people say, oh, you knowwhat? I'm gonna when I grow up,
I'm gonna, you know, be be a taxguy. Usually doesn't happen.
Right?
Chris Picciurro (05:24):
Yes. It's it's funny. I was a guest on another
podcast, a long form inter itwas like an hour and 10 minute
interview, and I said that it'sit's rare that you have a young
boy in the front of his yardthrowing his baseball back and
forth to his dad or or adaughter, you know, learn maybe
doing something with one of herparents in the kitchen making
cookies or throwing a softball,kicking the soccer ball, and
(05:46):
saying, one day I wanna be a taxprofessional. It's very rare,
but many of us in this industryfall into it for one reason or
another. For me, I've alwaysbeen very, very entrepreneurial
even when I was in my earlyteens, and we will I was a
Detroit news paperboy back inthe day when you used to drive
your little bike around and haveto collect the money.
(06:07):
There's a tons of lessons that Ilearned from being a paperboy on
running a business. And then Ihad a knack for numbers, and
then, I was lucky in highschool. We had accounting as an
elective in junior year, andthen I did pretty well in that
class. And one of a friend ofmine's dad taught AP accounting,
which we would go into schoolearly, which it was cool because
(06:30):
he opened up the afternoon alittle bit. And I took advanced
placement accounting as a seniorin high school, and at that
point, I really, really likedit.
And I I wasn't great at everymath. I was but algebra clicked
for me, and really accounting isalgebra. And so I thought, okay,
well, if I become a CPA, then nomatter what I do in business, it
(06:51):
can't hurt me. And so it allowsme to really still be an
entrepreneur. I'm more of anentrepreneur that that got into
running an accounting or CPApractice than traditional.
Many CPAs are enrolled agents ortax professionals. They they
start working somewhere andtheir main skill is that they're
a tax professional and then itevolves where they start their
(07:11):
own practice. But so I do a lotof consulting with other tax
professionals on really how torun their practices more
efficiently, how to have betterclient experiences, and from an
entrepreneurial standpoint. So Ihave a good pulse of, you know,
where I when I started, what I'mdoing now. And when you proposed
this very interesting topic, I Ithought, okay.
(07:33):
Well, how can I explain what wedo, yeah, what we do on a daily
basis as tax pros? And,obviously, it's it's it's much
different in each each fromlarge, large firms to to maybe
smaller firms to even taxprofessionals that work within
within organizations. Like, aGeneral Motors or Ford Motor
Company or Amazon have tons oftax professionals, even
(07:57):
internally, that work on a taxcompliance. So I figured I broke
this down into 3 components thatour tax professionals operate
in, and each of us works in inone or more of these a little
more. Some tax professionals,many, many really wear all of
these hats.
So I broke it down into you'vegot tax compliance work, tax
(08:18):
compliance activities, and undercompliance, people might say,
well, what lack does that mean?In my mind, that means the stuff
you're required to do. So thatcould be preparing tax returns.
For some, it could be performingbookkeeping services. For some,
it could be processing payroll.
So these are things that have tobe done. They have hard
deadlines. And then the secondbucket is our advisory services.
(08:41):
So advisory services are moreproactive planning and strategy.
So advisory services, that'swhat I spend about 95% of my
time on professionally, and Ihelp not only people in our
private CPA practice, but otherpeople in the teaching tax law
community on a 1 on 1 basis andwork and collaborate with other
tax professionals to help peoplewith planning and strategy,
(09:02):
which is under advisory.
So an example, a common advisorymight be a tax pro talks to a
potential a taxpayer about whattype of entity they should be if
they form a business, or shouldthey, if they're thinking about
just selling a property, shouldthey what what options they they
have to mitigate their taxes,what type of software they
(09:25):
should use. You know? If theyshould be utilize QuickBooks,
what type of people they need tohelp them implement strategies.
So for me, the advisory piece isthat's what I do, after spending
most of my career in more incompliance. And then the 3rd
part's practice management.
So if you're a large, largefirm, you may not spend tons of
(09:46):
time in practice management, butunder practice management I look
at that would include any typeof operations, that would
include marketing, bringing onnew clients, that would mean HR,
it would mean continuingcontinuing education, running
the actual business. And,unfortunately, many tax
professionals don't spend enoughtime in their practice
(10:07):
management, in the practicemanagement portion of what
they're doing. And if you don'tspend time you know, we talk
about that if you don't if youdon't plan for your tax, the IRS
picks it. Well, if you don'tprep manage your practice, your
practice is gonna manage you.And, unfortunately, for me,
another story for anotherepisode, it managed my life for
(10:29):
a long, long time.
So I I empathize, and I wouldsay those 3 buckets, compliance,
advisory, practice management.Now I'm really tilted into
advisory with a little I do alittle bit of practice
management and not very much taxcompliance at all. But I would
say the majority of tax prosprobably are pretty heavy into
tax compliance work. So you
John Tripolsky (10:51):
do a lot of, or a little bit of practice
management, but a lot ofpickleball. There you go. I
dropped it in there again.
Chris Picciurro (10:56):
And it's and really Not enough pickleball. It
can never be enough.
John Tripolsky (10:59):
Right. That's I knew you were gonna say
something about that. So it itis interesting now, you know,
coming from from my side of thefence. Right? So, obviously,
knowing you for well over 3quarters of my lifetime, you
know, I've and I know I'vementioned this in multiple
podcasts before.
You know, our relationship datesback to you, as my grandmother
(11:19):
used to say, doing the books forfor them. And then obviously, my
parents and myself, and now,obviously, we do a lot together,
including have a lot of goodtimes. But I think the most
interesting thing, again, fromthe outside looking in, right,
is just how much really yourrole has pivoted. And not even
(11:41):
just that, really y'all'sprivate CPA practice. Right?
So you guys have pivoteddrastically. I'd say, what,
probably over the past 5 5 yearsmaybe or so is when y'all made
the biggest shifts?
Chris Picciurro (11:55):
Yeah. There's some major shifts made. You
know, the shift started about 10years ago and really fully got
implemented last 5 to 6 years.And and that's like I said, when
you when you're first startingoff and when you're maybe you
know, when I first started off,we were a team of 2. And so we
had to wear all the hats, and soI was heavy, heavy tax com heavy
(12:17):
heavy, heavy compliance.
Ad Read (12:18):
So we had you know, we were performing the bookkeeping
services. We were doing what wecall after the fact payroll. And
and, again, this was 22 yearsago, so we don't we didn't have
the technology that we have now.Now I mean we're a virtual on
the private side. We're avirtual practice.
Chris Picciurro (12:34):
So all of our apps, everything, our entire
technology stack is in thecloud, in a secure environment,
and that's just that's how weoperate. And, you know, I went
through some some evolutions andand some some scares when we
used to have, like, a server inour office or we used to have a
computer crash or something likethat. So in in in our private
(12:56):
CPA practice, yes, we've reallyevolved into narrowing our focus
into primarily real estateinvestors. We have a subnichen
is helping estate planningattorneys and and and some
entrepreneurs, yet, you know,not not all practices are are
you know, I kind of not allpractices are niched by
industry. I mean, there could bea practice that's in a smaller
(13:19):
town, that's maybe nichedtowards just business owners
within a 10 mile radius becausemaybe there's some very
interesting local taxes or localconsiderations or or an industry
that dominates that localmarket.
Or it could be where a large,large corporation has a there's
a vast majority of people inthat small town work for the
that one corporation. So, so alot of so you want a tax
(13:42):
professional that is reallyfamiliar with with the those the
you know, maybe the 401 k planwith that for that employer and
there were and that sort ofstuff. So really, yeah, you're
juggling that complianceadvisory and practice
management. I'd say the mostchallenging is, in many ways, is
practice management becausepeople, you know, like like
(14:06):
think about when you go to thedentist or the doctor, and I
know I'm kinda wacky as we know.I'm always looking at their
processes.
Right? Because their process istheir product. That's the way we
look at things. And, but whenyou go to your dentist and
doctor, are you really focusedon the software they're using,
their their scheduling app,their you know, you just know
(14:26):
that you probably you mightlike, hey. This is nice.
They text me a reminder, andthey and it goes right into my
calendar. But those are all thepractice management things that
that a medical practice ordental practice has to consider.
They also have HIPAArequirements. So we so we have
our own requirements as a as aCPA or an enrolled agent or
anyone that that prepares taxesprofessionally under Circular
(14:50):
230 of the IRS, that we have ourown ethical standards. We have
our own ways.
We have to we have to protectclient data. So we have a lot of
regulatory things that we haveto think about. I mean, quite
frankly, and you know you'reaware of some of this stuff too.
We have some regulatory bodiesthat we work with. I'm not gonna
mention the ones here, but wehave to we have to submit every
(15:12):
transcript of this podcast,before it gets released.
And we've got we've got sothere's a lot of stuff that goes
to behind the scenes that peopledon't see, and it's not easy to
to master those. And it's andit's not really easy to become
efficient at those. So you youdo a lot of failing forward. So,
yeah, I think, you know, back toprocesses, I'd say, as a tax pro
(15:34):
or any business owner. I'mtrying to you know, I would say
my attitude now is I failforward a lot and we try to keep
a positive attitude that it'sit's only a problem until
there's a process.
So if for some reason there's aglitch in our software, if for
some reason a you know, we get 3emails from our clients that
didn't understand a piece ofcommunication we sent out. If we
(15:55):
get multiple people saying, youknow, I didn't really understand
this. Maybe it wasn't wordedproperly, so maybe it's
something that we did thatdidn't clearly communicate what
we're trying to get across. WhenI think those things go through
with any business. Right?
Most businesses have that, thething you're doing and then the
(16:17):
operations and the price. So andthen also juggling healthfully,
juggling, you know, servicingcurrent clients, determining if
we should bring on any newclients, making sure those
clients are a good fit, makingsure that if a client isn't a
great fit anymore that they thatthere's a amicable split. You
(16:37):
know, there's there's a lot ofdifferent things that go into
it, not just I think the hourlyfacing thing is I would imagine
people think that we probablyspend 95% of our time doing tax
compliance. Meaning, in whenApril 15th hits, we're sitting
around twiddling our thumbs, andthat's far from the truth. And
and, you know, you know this,Jack, because you've been with
(16:58):
me and, you know, we thesummertime is a it's a time
where a lot of these big, big,tax and accounting conferences
take place, and we're we'relucky to be part of those
conferences and present our rolemany, many times.
So, John, you've met I mean,you've met accountants from all
over the country, so I'minterest so, yeah, you you
should probably see just bytalking to them, like, man, that
(17:19):
person's, like, reallytechnically savvy. They know the
tax code well, but, gosh, canyou imagine trying to have them
log into a Zoom meeting?
John Tripolsky (17:25):
I think I built up the suspense in your mind
about the show that I was gonnagrill you on all kinds of little
nitty gritty stuff and andexpose the world, so I promise
I'll be nice. And you know whatI'll do even just to make it
worse, kinda keep the, carrot infront of you is I'll just
trickle them out over the next10 episodes. Maybe I'll take my
questions and, you know, just tokeep you on the edge of your
seat. But I will let you off thehook, sir. So, you can, you can
(17:48):
go take a nap if you want to,but, you know, it's it is tax
season.
And the only reason I say thatis because we're virtual and,
you know, I'm not within taserreach. So you're not
Chris Picciurro (18:00):
in Taser reach. And I would say just to point
out, we do know that I'm veryinvolved we don't know that I'm
very but I am very involved withthe state of Tennessee CPA
Society and Michigan Associationof CPAs, and both of them
identify that the mainchallenge, at least in our
industry as a CPA is and as CPAsis that we have a talent gap of
(18:20):
new people entering ourprofession. So we have to make
this profession more attractive,and and I think we're I think
there I have hope. You know?Over the last couple of years,
I've met a lot of people at thatgeneration younger than myself
or or maybe 10 years youngerthan me that I really have a lot
of hope in.
So so, yeah, I mean, it's agreat it's it's a great
profession. If you know someonethat's interested in in learning
(18:43):
about it, and, please reach outto us. I'm no matter where you
live, I'm sure we can help guideyou in the right direction and
just kinda have a have a littlechat about that.
John Tripolsky (18:54):
Awesome. Awesome. Well, sir, you are off
the hook. And in closing, I'llsay one of the most impressive
things that I've seen, really,you know, Chris, obviously, you
and your practice, but, youknow, a lot of people, they
kinda poke fun of the industryand say, oh, you know,
accountants and CPAs, theythey're very good at looking at
the rearview mirror and notlooking forward where I think
now I'm seeing, obviously, youguys again, but I'm seeing more
(19:16):
and more of them at theseconferences. Either they're
younger, they've started thisway, or they're older and
they're transitioning into thisis they're finally starting to
look in that windshield a littlebit more by way of tax planning
and strategy.
So it is it is great to see thatfirsthand. Now I haven't seen a
pocket protector at a conferenceyet, but I'm sure they're out
there. So let's leave it atthat. We will save the rest of
(19:39):
the questions for another day,another time. And as I like to
always close it.
We will see everybody back herenext week, same time, different
topic here on the TeachingTextful guest. Hey, everybody.
Thank you for hanging out withus again here on the podcast. I
(20:01):
was not kidding when I said Iwas building up the suspense
trying to make Chris a littlenervous that I was gonna ask him
some very difficult questions toask, but has anybody that's ever
had a conversation with thisguy? You know it is incredibly
difficult to stump him.
The Inappickle Ball, actually,let's put it that way too. Let's
be honest. He kicks my buttevery time I even try to attempt
the game, so I leave it at that.But next week, we've got a great
(20:26):
topic, something that we haveactually been asked a lot about.
We are gonna jump in todiscussing some modern payroll
with a fantastic guest asalways.
So no more suspense for it.We'll see you back here very
soon.
Disclaimer (20:42):
The content provided is for educational purposes
only. We encourage you to seekpersonalized investment advice
from your financialprofessional. For all tax and
legal advice, please consultyour CPA or attorney. Investment
advisory services are offeredthrough cabin advisors, a
registered investment advisor.Securities are offered through
cabin securities, a registeredbroker dealer.
The content of this podcast does not constitute an
(21:03):
offer of securities. Offeringscan only be made through an
offering memorandum, and youshould carefully examine the
risk factors and otherinformation contained in the
memorandum.
Welcome to the Teaching
Tax Flow podcast where the goalis to empower and educate you to
legally and ethically minimizetaxes paid over your lifetime.
John Tripolsky (00:16):
Hey, everybody, and welcome back to Teaching
Taxville, the podcast episode79. We got a good one for you
today. I am actually gonna beinterviewing technically
interviewing Chris Pacquero. SoI know you've heard his voice.
Obviously, my cohost here in thepodcast, but I get to, as
always, play the dumbest guy inthe room and ask questions of
the smart guy.
So before we get into it, asalways, let's take a very brief
(00:39):
moment and thank our episodesponsor.
Ad Read (00:43):
This podcast is brought to you by Strategic Associates.
Are you a high income earner,real estate investor, or
successful entrepreneur who isfrustrated by having to pay
$75,000 or more of annual taxliability? If so, Strategic
Associates can help. Your firststep to saving 1,000, if not 100
of 1,000, is to contact RogerRoundy at roger@strategicag.net
(01:06):
or by calling 8 016412956, andbe sure to tell them TTF sent
you.
John Tripolsky (01:15):
Alright, everybody. I've been looking
forward to this one here forlet's see. We're on episode 79,
probably 77 episodes where I getto grill this guy on what
actually goes on in his brainbesides pickleball. We'll try.
Here's a challenge.
Chris, let's not talk aboutpickleball. Well, you know what?
(01:35):
Screw that. We're we're gonnatalk about pickleball. That's
what goes on in your brain.
It's part of your daily life.But, good sir, are you ready for
this sit down interview on theday in the life of a tax pro?
Chris Picciurro (01:46):
I am, and I'm not gonna mention pickleball. I
was not going to, but, ofcourse, you did, which is fine.
And I but as much as I lovepickleball, I still have only
been playing for about 2 years,maybe a hair less, and I've been
a CPA for well over 20. So theday in the life of a tax pro, I
live it live it every day. Ilike it or not.
John Tripolsky (02:08):
Especially around this time. Right? I mean,
literally, the tax actually,Chris, what is the tax deadline
this year? I know, you know,obviously, today being April
16th, is it still the 15th everyyear, or does it kinda fluctuate
a little bit?
Chris Picciurro (02:21):
Well, as you know, John, the tax deadline is
a fictitious date, in myopinion, because you could
always file a tax extension andget 6 extra months. Sometimes it
is April 15th. This is thequote, unquote, what people call
tax day, although I do not likethat term. It is, it is so it
(02:43):
was yesterday.
John Tripolsky (02:44):
You know, I I'm gonna I'm gonna say this. If if
anybody before we get too deepinto that one, I challenge
anybody else that runs intoChris at an event to come up to
him and say, don't you just lovetax season? And I bet you I bet
you this guy carries around ataser with him. That every time
every time you hear tax season,I know your face turns extremely
(03:06):
red. You know, steam startscoming out of the ears.
I would I mean, you'll probablyjust drop somebody to the ground
every time you hear that. Right?Well, if I
Intro (03:14):
have my pickleball paddle, I'll take it out of the
bag and we'll hit them over thehead with it.
John Tripolsky (03:18):
There. Hey. You said pickleball even though I'm
the one that said it twice.There it was. So let let's get
into this a
Intro (03:24):
little bit. Alright. So April 15th is yeah. I know April
15th sometimes it falls on aweekend or we have Emancipation
Day and that deadline is bumped.But, John, I think you just had
a had a plan for me to mentionthat that's your birthday.
John Tripolsky (03:35):
It it was a bay you know what's funny though too
if, I'm kinda curious on why theIRS ended up picking that day. I
mean, obviously, it's it's avery special day for for me and
everybody in my life, but it'salso some very unfortunate days
if I remember. It's the day theTitanic hit the iceberg. It's, I
wanna say it's Adolf Hitler'sbirthday. It's the day Lincoln
(03:59):
got shot.
So it's not really a good day.Infomist day. Obviously, though.
Chris Picciurro (04:04):
Infomist day. Well, it really comes down to
the and we're the federal budgetand and with a and how their
fiscal year works. And it'sinteresting because we did an
episode on quarterly estimatedtax payments from a federal
side, and they're you know, thefirst quarter is due April 15th,
yet the second quarter is June15th, the third September 15th,
(04:25):
and then the 4th is January15th. So it's just an odd thing.
But, yeah, the the what what iscommonly referred to as tax day
or the original the tax filingdeadline or the deadline to file
an original tax return or anextension is April 15th.
That was yesterday. John, happybelated birthday, and, also,
happy birthday to my youngestchild, Luke, who's 11 today.
John Tripolsky (04:48):
That's right. That's right. And so let's take
a a step back in Chris Picurohistory, I guess. So obviously,
we we wanna extrapolate as muchinformation as possible from you
on what your daily life lookslike, right, as a tax pro. But
maybe even go back a little bitand tell us how in the world you
(05:11):
even got into this industry.
Right? Because it's it'snormally not when you hear a lot
of people say, oh, you knowwhat? I'm gonna when I grow up,
I'm gonna, you know, be be a taxguy. Usually doesn't happen.
Right?
Chris Picciurro (05:24):
Yes. It's it's funny. I was a guest on another
podcast, a long form inter itwas like an hour and 10 minute
interview, and I said that it'sit's rare that you have a young
boy in the front of his yardthrowing his baseball back and
forth to his dad or or adaughter, you know, learn maybe
doing something with one of herparents in the kitchen making
cookies or throwing a softball,kicking the soccer ball, and
(05:46):
saying, one day I wanna be a taxprofessional. It's very rare,
but many of us in this industryfall into it for one reason or
another. For me, I've alwaysbeen very, very entrepreneurial
even when I was in my earlyteens, and we will I was a
Detroit news paperboy back inthe day when you used to drive
your little bike around and haveto collect the money.
(06:07):
There's a tons of lessons that Ilearned from being a paperboy on
running a business. And then Ihad a knack for numbers, and
then, I was lucky in highschool. We had accounting as an
elective in junior year, andthen I did pretty well in that
class. And one of a friend ofmine's dad taught AP accounting,
which we would go into schoolearly, which it was cool because
(06:30):
he opened up the afternoon alittle bit. And I took advanced
placement accounting as a seniorin high school, and at that
point, I really, really likedit.
And I I wasn't great at everymath. I was but algebra clicked
for me, and really accounting isalgebra. And so I thought, okay,
well, if I become a CPA, then nomatter what I do in business, it
(06:51):
can't hurt me. And so it allowsme to really still be an
entrepreneur. I'm more of anentrepreneur that that got into
running an accounting or CPApractice than traditional.
Many CPAs are enrolled agents ortax professionals. They they
start working somewhere andtheir main skill is that they're
a tax professional and then itevolves where they start their
(07:11):
own practice. But so I do a lotof consulting with other tax
professionals on really how torun their practices more
efficiently, how to have betterclient experiences, and from an
entrepreneurial standpoint. So Ihave a good pulse of, you know,
where I when I started, what I'mdoing now. And when you proposed
this very interesting topic, I Ithought, okay.
(07:33):
Well, how can I explain what wedo, yeah, what we do on a daily
basis as tax pros? And,obviously, it's it's it's much
different in each each fromlarge, large firms to to maybe
smaller firms to even taxprofessionals that work within
within organizations. Like, aGeneral Motors or Ford Motor
Company or Amazon have tons oftax professionals, even
(07:57):
internally, that work on a taxcompliance. So I figured I broke
this down into 3 components thatour tax professionals operate
in, and each of us works in inone or more of these a little
more. Some tax professionals,many, many really wear all of
these hats.
So I broke it down into you'vegot tax compliance work, tax
(08:18):
compliance activities, and undercompliance, people might say,
well, what lack does that mean?In my mind, that means the stuff
you're required to do. So thatcould be preparing tax returns.
For some, it could be performingbookkeeping services. For some,
it could be processing payroll.
So these are things that have tobe done. They have hard
deadlines. And then the secondbucket is our advisory services.
(08:41):
So advisory services are moreproactive planning and strategy.
So advisory services, that'swhat I spend about 95% of my
time on professionally, and Ihelp not only people in our
private CPA practice, but otherpeople in the teaching tax law
community on a 1 on 1 basis andwork and collaborate with other
tax professionals to help peoplewith planning and strategy,
(09:02):
which is under advisory.
So an example, a common advisorymight be a tax pro talks to a
potential a taxpayer about whattype of entity they should be if
they form a business, or shouldthey, if they're thinking about
just selling a property, shouldthey what what options they they
have to mitigate their taxes,what type of software they
(09:25):
should use. You know? If theyshould be utilize QuickBooks,
what type of people they need tohelp them implement strategies.
So for me, the advisory piece isthat's what I do, after spending
most of my career in more incompliance. And then the 3rd
part's practice management.
So if you're a large, largefirm, you may not spend tons of
(09:46):
time in practice management, butunder practice management I look
at that would include any typeof operations, that would
include marketing, bringing onnew clients, that would mean HR,
it would mean continuingcontinuing education, running
the actual business. And,unfortunately, many tax
professionals don't spend enoughtime in their practice
(10:07):
management, in the practicemanagement portion of what
they're doing. And if you don'tspend time you know, we talk
about that if you don't if youdon't plan for your tax, the IRS
picks it. Well, if you don'tprep manage your practice, your
practice is gonna manage you.And, unfortunately, for me,
another story for anotherepisode, it managed my life for
(10:29):
a long, long time.
So I I empathize, and I wouldsay those 3 buckets, compliance,
advisory, practice management.Now I'm really tilted into
advisory with a little I do alittle bit of practice
management and not very much taxcompliance at all. But I would
say the majority of tax prosprobably are pretty heavy into
tax compliance work. So you
John Tripolsky (10:51):
do a lot of, or a little bit of practice
management, but a lot ofpickleball. There you go. I
dropped it in there again.
Chris Picciurro (10:56):
And it's and really Not enough pickleball. It
can never be enough.
John Tripolsky (10:59):
Right. That's I knew you were gonna say
something about that. So it itis interesting now, you know,
coming from from my side of thefence. Right? So, obviously,
knowing you for well over 3quarters of my lifetime, you
know, I've and I know I'vementioned this in multiple
podcasts before.
You know, our relationship datesback to you, as my grandmother
(11:19):
used to say, doing the books forfor them. And then obviously, my
parents and myself, and now,obviously, we do a lot together,
including have a lot of goodtimes. But I think the most
interesting thing, again, fromthe outside looking in, right,
is just how much really yourrole has pivoted. And not even
(11:41):
just that, really y'all'sprivate CPA practice. Right?
So you guys have pivoteddrastically. I'd say, what,
probably over the past 5 5 yearsmaybe or so is when y'all made
the biggest shifts?
Chris Picciurro (11:55):
Yeah. There's some major shifts made. You
know, the shift started about 10years ago and really fully got
implemented last 5 to 6 years.And and that's like I said, when
you when you're first startingoff and when you're maybe you
know, when I first started off,we were a team of 2. And so we
had to wear all the hats, and soI was heavy, heavy tax com heavy
(12:17):
heavy, heavy compliance.
Ad Read (12:18):
So we had you know, we were performing the bookkeeping
services. We were doing what wecall after the fact payroll. And
and, again, this was 22 yearsago, so we don't we didn't have
the technology that we have now.Now I mean we're a virtual on
the private side. We're avirtual practice.
Chris Picciurro (12:34):
So all of our apps, everything, our entire
technology stack is in thecloud, in a secure environment,
and that's just that's how weoperate. And, you know, I went
through some some evolutions andand some some scares when we
used to have, like, a server inour office or we used to have a
computer crash or something likethat. So in in in our private
(12:56):
CPA practice, yes, we've reallyevolved into narrowing our focus
into primarily real estateinvestors. We have a subnichen
is helping estate planningattorneys and and and some
entrepreneurs, yet, you know,not not all practices are are
you know, I kind of not allpractices are niched by
industry. I mean, there could bea practice that's in a smaller
(13:19):
town, that's maybe nichedtowards just business owners
within a 10 mile radius becausemaybe there's some very
interesting local taxes or localconsiderations or or an industry
that dominates that localmarket.
Or it could be where a large,large corporation has a there's
a vast majority of people inthat small town work for the
that one corporation. So, so alot of so you want a tax
(13:42):
professional that is reallyfamiliar with with the those the
you know, maybe the 401 k planwith that for that employer and
there were and that sort ofstuff. So really, yeah, you're
juggling that complianceadvisory and practice
management. I'd say the mostchallenging is, in many ways, is
practice management becausepeople, you know, like like
(14:06):
think about when you go to thedentist or the doctor, and I
know I'm kinda wacky as we know.I'm always looking at their
processes.
Right? Because their process istheir product. That's the way we
look at things. And, but whenyou go to your dentist and
doctor, are you really focusedon the software they're using,
their their scheduling app,their you know, you just know
(14:26):
that you probably you mightlike, hey. This is nice.
They text me a reminder, andthey and it goes right into my
calendar. But those are all thepractice management things that
that a medical practice ordental practice has to consider.
They also have HIPAArequirements. So we so we have
our own requirements as a as aCPA or an enrolled agent or
anyone that that prepares taxesprofessionally under Circular
(14:50):
230 of the IRS, that we have ourown ethical standards. We have
our own ways.
We have to we have to protectclient data. So we have a lot of
regulatory things that we haveto think about. I mean, quite
frankly, and you know you'reaware of some of this stuff too.
We have some regulatory bodiesthat we work with. I'm not gonna
mention the ones here, but wehave to we have to submit every
(15:12):
transcript of this podcast,before it gets released.
And we've got we've got sothere's a lot of stuff that goes
to behind the scenes that peopledon't see, and it's not easy to
to master those. And it's andit's not really easy to become
efficient at those. So you youdo a lot of failing forward. So,
yeah, I think, you know, back toprocesses, I'd say, as a tax pro
(15:34):
or any business owner. I'mtrying to you know, I would say
my attitude now is I failforward a lot and we try to keep
a positive attitude that it'sit's only a problem until
there's a process.
So if for some reason there's aglitch in our software, if for
some reason a you know, we get 3emails from our clients that
didn't understand a piece ofcommunication we sent out. If we
(15:55):
get multiple people saying, youknow, I didn't really understand
this. Maybe it wasn't wordedproperly, so maybe it's
something that we did thatdidn't clearly communicate what
we're trying to get across. WhenI think those things go through
with any business. Right?
Most businesses have that, thething you're doing and then the
(16:17):
operations and the price. So andthen also juggling healthfully,
juggling, you know, servicingcurrent clients, determining if
we should bring on any newclients, making sure those
clients are a good fit, makingsure that if a client isn't a
great fit anymore that they thatthere's a amicable split. You
(16:37):
know, there's there's a lot ofdifferent things that go into
it, not just I think the hourlyfacing thing is I would imagine
people think that we probablyspend 95% of our time doing tax
compliance. Meaning, in whenApril 15th hits, we're sitting
around twiddling our thumbs, andthat's far from the truth. And
and, you know, you know this,Jack, because you've been with
(16:58):
me and, you know, we thesummertime is a it's a time
where a lot of these big, big,tax and accounting conferences
take place, and we're we'relucky to be part of those
conferences and present our rolemany, many times.
So, John, you've met I mean,you've met accountants from all
over the country, so I'minterest so, yeah, you you
should probably see just bytalking to them, like, man, that
(17:19):
person's, like, reallytechnically savvy. They know the
tax code well, but, gosh, canyou imagine trying to have them
log into a Zoom meeting?
John Tripolsky (17:25):
I think I built up the suspense in your mind
about the show that I was gonnagrill you on all kinds of little
nitty gritty stuff and andexpose the world, so I promise
I'll be nice. And you know whatI'll do even just to make it
worse, kinda keep the, carrot infront of you is I'll just
trickle them out over the next10 episodes. Maybe I'll take my
questions and, you know, just tokeep you on the edge of your
seat. But I will let you off thehook, sir. So, you can, you can
(17:48):
go take a nap if you want to,but, you know, it's it is tax
season.
And the only reason I say thatis because we're virtual and,
you know, I'm not within taserreach. So you're not
Chris Picciurro (18:00):
in Taser reach. And I would say just to point
out, we do know that I'm veryinvolved we don't know that I'm
very but I am very involved withthe state of Tennessee CPA
Society and Michigan Associationof CPAs, and both of them
identify that the mainchallenge, at least in our
industry as a CPA is and as CPAsis that we have a talent gap of
(18:20):
new people entering ourprofession. So we have to make
this profession more attractive,and and I think we're I think
there I have hope. You know?Over the last couple of years,
I've met a lot of people at thatgeneration younger than myself
or or maybe 10 years youngerthan me that I really have a lot
of hope in.
So so, yeah, I mean, it's agreat it's it's a great
profession. If you know someonethat's interested in in learning
(18:43):
about it, and, please reach outto us. I'm no matter where you
live, I'm sure we can help guideyou in the right direction and
just kinda have a have a littlechat about that.
John Tripolsky (18:54):
Awesome. Awesome. Well, sir, you are off
the hook. And in closing, I'llsay one of the most impressive
things that I've seen, really,you know, Chris, obviously, you
and your practice, but, youknow, a lot of people, they
kinda poke fun of the industryand say, oh, you know,
accountants and CPAs, theythey're very good at looking at
the rearview mirror and notlooking forward where I think
now I'm seeing, obviously, youguys again, but I'm seeing more
(19:16):
and more of them at theseconferences. Either they're
younger, they've started thisway, or they're older and
they're transitioning into thisis they're finally starting to
look in that windshield a littlebit more by way of tax planning
and strategy.
So it is it is great to see thatfirsthand. Now I haven't seen a
pocket protector at a conferenceyet, but I'm sure they're out
there. So let's leave it atthat. We will save the rest of
(19:39):
the questions for another day,another time. And as I like to
always close it.
We will see everybody back herenext week, same time, different
topic here on the TeachingTextful guest. Hey, everybody.
Thank you for hanging out withus again here on the podcast. I
(20:01):
was not kidding when I said Iwas building up the suspense
trying to make Chris a littlenervous that I was gonna ask him
some very difficult questions toask, but has anybody that's ever
had a conversation with thisguy? You know it is incredibly
difficult to stump him.
The Inappickle Ball, actually,let's put it that way too. Let's
be honest. He kicks my buttevery time I even try to attempt
the game, so I leave it at that.But next week, we've got a great
(20:26):
topic, something that we haveactually been asked a lot about.
We are gonna jump in todiscussing some modern payroll
with a fantastic guest asalways.
So no more suspense for it.We'll see you back here very
soon.
Disclaimer (20:42):
The content provided is for educational purposes
only. We encourage you to seekpersonalized investment advice
from your financialprofessional. For all tax and
legal advice, please consultyour CPA or attorney. Investment
advisory services are offeredthrough cabin advisors, a
registered investment advisor.Securities are offered through
cabin securities, a registeredbroker dealer.
The content of this podcast does not constitute an
(21:03):
offer of securities. Offeringscan only be made through an
offering memorandum, and youshould carefully examine the
risk factors and otherinformation contained in the
memorandum.
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