In this episode of the Teaching Tax Flow podcast, Chris Piccurrio and his co-host John Tripolsky delve into valuable tax strategies for low to mid-income households, specifically targeting those with an annual taxable income of around $100k and below.
The conversation quickly gets to the meat of the episode: tax planning for average-income earners. With insight and enthusiasm, Chris outlines why tax strategy is not just for the affluent but is critical for households in the lower income brackets, where every dollar saved holds significant value. The episode promises to debunk myths surrounding tax planning accessibility and delivers concrete strategies that listeners can readily adopt.
Key Takeaways:
- Health Savings Account (HSA) contributions are beneficial for low to mid-income earners as it offers a method to save for medical expenses in a tax-free manner.
- Strategic retirement plan distributions can be advantageous, especially if they can be done without incurring a 10% early distribution penalty.
- Utilizing Roth accounts for contributions and conversions is an effective approach to securing tax-free growth and distributions, making it ideal for individuals in the 10% to 12% marginal tax rate bracket.
- Tax planning is disproportionately more beneficial for low to mid-income households, as it significantly affects the percentage of their income compared to higher-income households.
- The misconception that tax planning is only for high earners is a barrier that Teaching Tax Flow aims to dismantle, educating listeners on how they, too, can minimize lifetime taxes legally and ethically.
Notable Quotes:
- "Tax planning is so important for the...lower to middle-income taxable income households."
- "You pick your tax or the IRS does."
- "Roth contributions are part of my number three strategy for middle to lower income. The IRA contribution or traditional 401k really doesn't do you that much good."
- "Even if they didn't need the money, they should start taking money out of their 401K plan early."
- "It's very important for everyone to tax plan."
Episode Sponsor
Sunsets & Dinks
www.teachingtaxflow.com/pickleball
CODE: TTF15
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro (00:04):
Welcome to the Teaching Tax Flow podcast, where the goal
is to empower and educate you tolegally and ethically minimize
taxes paid over your lifetime.
John Tripolsky (00:18):
Welcome back to the podcast, everybody. Episode
84 today, we are gonna dive intoa very interesting and specific
topic on today's show. We'regonna look at those top tax
strategies for low to mid incomehouseholds. That's households
averaging roughly 100 k andbelow an annual taxable income.
But before we do that, asalways, let's take a brief
(00:39):
moment and thank our episodesponsor.
Ad Read (00:45):
Hi. Chris Piccurrio here, founder of Teaching Tax
Flow, cohost of the Teaching TaxFlow podcast, and pickleball
enthusiast. Yes. If you listento the podcast, you know almost
every episode we talk aboutpickleball, the most popular and
growing sport in America. Wehave tons of opportunities for
paddles and and pickleballs, butwe don't have a lot of great
gear on the market.
(01:05):
Well, I'm so excited to announcethat Sunsets and Dink's are now
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Because you are part of theteaching tax law community, you
get a 15% discount on all yourorders with them. I know I love
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(01:27):
wearing it, believe it or not,even at my level. Go to teaching
tax flow.com backslashpickleball and simply enter t t
f 15 in the serve up promo codearea of your paddle rack.
John Tripolsky (01:43):
Alright, everybody. Let's jump into
today's episode. As mentionedthere in the intro, in the
title, and in the description inthe show notes there, which you
probably didn't read. So we'regonna tell you about it anyways,
a little bit more of detail. Butbefore we do that too, we have
to welcome the bald guy backwith all the knowledge.
Chris Bacuro, what's happening,man? How are we doing today?
Chris Picciurro (02:05):
I am doing great, John. I'm gonna put you
on the spot, and you love when Ido that because you do that to
me with your tax questions.
John Tripolsky (02:12):
Oh, boy. Here we go.
Chris Picciurro (02:14):
The number 84 has a very, very special place
in my heart. Can you guess why?84.
John Tripolsky (02:25):
Well, actually. Well, probably because
Chris Picciurro (02:28):
it's such an obscure number. It's the last
year the Tigers won the WorldSeries, 1984. I was just a young
9 year old boy running aroundnext to my next door neighbor's
house, you know, counting downthe outs as the Detroit Tigers
took out the San Diego Padres ingame 5 of the 1984 World Series,
who'd have known 40 years laterI would still be waiting for the
(02:50):
Tigers to get that elusive worldseries trophy back.
John Tripolsky (02:55):
Hey. That's how Detroit Lions fans feel, though,
too, about even just making theplayoffs. And see, things
happen. So it you know? True.
True.
Chris Picciurro (03:02):
Well
John Tripolsky (03:02):
You can't you can't, you can't throw on the
ball just yet.
Chris Picciurro (03:07):
I know.
John Tripolsky (03:08):
It's just It's all good.
Chris Picciurro (03:08):
Been a long time for for those those Tigers.
We had some chances into theworld series, but but that has
nothing to do. Although, if, youknow, if you with the price of
sporting events now, you have tobe a high marginal tax rate
household to to even afford togo to these dang games. Oh, just
a problem. Like the old man onthe porch.
John Tripolsky (03:27):
Hey. Hey. To get my mom out. You know what? At
least so you know what?
I'm not even gonna make an oldjoke because you're not that
much older than me. Let's behonest. I was gonna I was gonna
say, hey. Back in the day, youknow, when last time they won
the world series, that wasprobably when you could, you
know, catch a home run, take theball, and then they'd give you a
free ticket to the game. Butwe're not talking about the
fifties here.
So we're Yeah.
Chris Picciurro (03:46):
That might be before my time.
John Tripolsky (03:48):
That is that's right. I guarantee that's pretty
much before your time. Butspeaking of before people's
time. Right? So let's talk aboutthis one.
And and this topic here, again,just to kinda reiterate, you
know, again, what it said in theshow title, the description, and
the intro, We're looking atthose households, which makes up
a huge percentage of the UnitedStates population that averages
(04:12):
less than a 100 k, $100,000 ayear in annual taxable income.
So we're gonna look at those toptax strategies. But before we do
that too, Chris, I wanna I wannamention that. Forget what
episode that we talked aboutthis specifically, and I know
we've done it multiple times.Right?
We talk a lot about tax planningand strategy and how some people
(04:32):
think that, oh, that doesn'tapply to me. You know, I'm not
making 500,000 or a $1,000,000 ayear. That's like going to a
country club. You know, it'sit's out of reach, some people
think, for themselves. Well, thegood news is the country club
left their door open andunlocked in the middle of the
night.
You can walk right in. So let'stalk about why it's so important
(04:55):
for even these households to taxplan for lack of better terms.
Chris Picciurro (05:00):
It's very important for everyone to tax
plan, and I always argue thatthe the lower to middle income
taxable income households, taxplanning and strategy is more
important than to someone in ahigher marginal tax rate. Why?
Well, the dollars are less, butthe percentage of their income
is more. And, unfortunately,most tax planning and strategy
(05:20):
focuses on your high net worth,higher income households. So we
wanted to do this podcast.
We had a reel on Facebook thatthat got a lot of attention when
we talked about this, and and soI've broken down my 3 favorite
tax planning strategies, forthese type of households. But
before that, we let's definewhat we consider lower to middle
(05:45):
income households. In theteaching tax flow system, we
believe that, your marginal taxrate is your most important KPI.
And and it's important for manyreasons because there's a lot
not only is your tax the amountof tax you pay, but the amount
of credits you received,including child tax credits,
earned income tax credits,daycare credits, all really
(06:05):
depend on on this figure, and alot of them on your adjusted
gross income or modifiedadjusted gross income. So what
we would define as lower tomiddle income households, is
there anyone in the 12% or lowertax bracket.
So for single filers in 2024,that number is approximately
(06:27):
$63,000 of of of income,adjusted gross income or less.
And I'm taking into account thebrackets. I'm also taking into
account a standard deduction.For head of household taxpayers,
that's about $84,000, $85,000 orless. And for married filing
joint taxpayers, it's a whopping$125,000 of of adjusted gross
(06:50):
income or less.
So that's that's the range thatwe're looking at. And for those
type of taxpayers in theteaching tax law system, we
categorize them as a goaldiagnosis, meaning that they can
accept accelerated income.Their, rather green diagnosis.
(07:12):
In gold diagnosis, they shouldfocus on tax free income and
growth. I wanna point out onemore thing, John.
The amount of I mean, we theseare facts. We have people in our
private CPA practice that areabsolute millionaires and still
considered in a lower or middleincome household because income
and assets are 2 differentconcepts. So this doesn't mean
(07:32):
if you're in this situation thatyou are not wealthy. Some of our
wealthiest, wealthiest clientsare in this in this, in these in
these categories. So let's sonow that we define that, let's
start diving in because wetalked diagnose, prescribe, IQ
test, implement when we talkabout tax strategy.
(07:53):
So we've diagnosed you. Ifyou're if if either you are in
this category or you have afamily, a friend, I want you to
share this with them. What arethe three things? And I try to
create, I tried to pick out realbasic strategies that anyone
could do. You don't need tobuild a team of people to make
them, happen or implement.
(08:14):
What are the top threestrategies for these type of
taxpayers? In no particularorder, except actually now that
I think about it, they're inorder. I'm gonna do next one of
my most favorite last.
John Tripolsky (08:27):
There you go. There you go. And and, Chris,
let's go back just briefly to Iknow we touched on. So we we
always mention too, you know,household incomes, tax marginal
tax rate. So we're looking at,you know, we say a 100,000 and
below for a household income.
So how does I mean, we talkabout it a lot, but let's
(08:49):
reiterate it. You know? Whatexactly is a household income to
individuals? Right? Families,individuals, how does it look?
Chris Picciurro (08:55):
Yeah. Your adjusted gross income is really
your taxable income. Alright? Sosome things that are tax free,
like buy some, some type ofmunicipal bond interest or, or
what have you. And some of the,some of your income is taxed as
net income.
So rental income and and selfemployment income. This is just
an accumulation of all of yourtaxable income items, starting
at the top with w two wages allthe way down to taxable Social
(09:18):
Security, retirement plandistributions, bank interest,
dividends, capital gains,capital losses. Could be
gambling income. It could be anytype of income in the in when
you add it up of what what playsa role in making up your
adjusted gross income. Now we doknow that different types of
income are taxed at differentrates.
(09:40):
But to define the low to middleincome households, we had to
kinda draw we had to draw a linein the sand and say that range,
we're talking about 65 to a$125,000 depending on your
filing status or less. Perfect.Perfect answer.
John Tripolsky (09:55):
And then also, you know, when we dive into
these strategies, right, are wegoing to or does it really make
a difference? Right? Are welooking at say it's a family of
2, you know, or a household of2. Say they're both w two full
time employees. Say one ofthem's an employee, one of
them's self employed, how big ofhow big of a difference can we
(10:15):
expect that to make as we getinto these?
Chris Picciurro (10:18):
Well, I mean, it's self employ if you're self
employed, you're playing payingthe self employment tax, which
is gonna be an extra 15.3%. So,yes, someone that makes a
$100,000 of of, self employmentincome versus someone that's a w
two at a $100,000, their federaltax they pay is gonna be the
(10:39):
same. Yet, the self employmenttax for the w for the for the,
self employed person is gonna be15.3%, where the employee is
gonna pay only half of thatthrough their payroll. Now the
self employed person, though,can offset their income with
home office deduction and anytype of ordinary necessary
business expenses.
John Tripolsky (10:59):
Perfect. Perfect. Perfect. Alright. So I
won't do a drum roll in thispodcast, but let's dive into it.
Chris Picciurro (11:07):
Alright. Number 1 is a health savings account
contribution for a few quite afew reasons. Now you might be
saying, wait a second. You justsaid that these folks aren't
necessarily worried about taxdeductions. And I would agree.
Right? You're, you're more,we're more worried about tax
free income and growth. Yet,because the, typically, people
(11:33):
in this in the with this incomelevel do not itemize their
deductions. And even if youitemize your deductions, the
medical expenses are verylimited, and they have to exceed
7 a half percent of your income.So just numbers wise, most of
the people that that thissituation applies to, which is,
by the way, the vast majority ofpeople in this country, do not
(11:54):
get a deduction for out ofpocket medical expenses.
So you might as well make thathealth savings account
contribution if you're going tohave those medical expenses for
at least your deductible, andtake that off the tax return
because you will, you know,maybe preserve, again, some
child tax credits, some earnedincome credit tax credits. And
(12:16):
since you're not getting anydeduction for it anyway, you
might as well utilize thathealth savings account
contribution if you areeligible. Shameless plug. We
have other content on healthsavings account contributions,
And you can there's there's aadvanced tax strategy, where you
could do a one time conversionfrom an IRA to a HSA. But,
(12:40):
again, this echoes beyond thisconversation.
My point is health savingsaccount contributions, a great
way to at least get a taxdeduction. Even if it's $1,000 a
year and that's your deductible,take advantage of it. Put the
money in a HSA account. It growstax free if you use it for
medical expenses. The otherthing is typically people with
lower to middle incomehouseholds, it's very hard for
(13:02):
them to have a a savings accountdesignated just for unexpected
health expenses, dentalexpenses.
So to have that bucket separatedout in a tax efficient way is is
very is very good. So so, John,let me for instance, if someone
if there's a married couple,let's say they have a teenager,
(13:24):
and let's say their tax billincome is $80,000 a year or
gross income. So their net andtheir taxable income is maybe
55. If their child needs bracesand it's $3,000 having that
health savings account set upwith the money in it is gonna be
a huge stress relief for themversus if you have a household
that they make $800,000 a yearand their child needs braces,
(13:49):
they probably don't take asecond thought of saying, okay,
just get the braces. So that'swhy I'm saying tax planning is
so important for the for thesetype of households.
John Tripolsky (13:57):
It's almost like you get it you you know, in
layman's terms, you get muchmore bang for your buck or
efforts, we should say. Right?And, honestly, Chris, going
back, and and I'm trying to justrecall what episode that was
where we really dove into it. Itwas pretty early on, where we've
really, really kinda drew theline in the sand on or I should
(14:18):
say we erased the line in thesand actually on who tax
planning and and, you know,strategy is most beneficial for,
who can take advantage of it.And I'm not gonna lie.
I was even shocked at the end ofthat. I'm like, okay. Well, this
is definitely a lesser knownfact in the wonderful world that
we live in. Right? A lot ofpeople
Chris Picciurro (14:37):
year and a half ago. Yeah. That 1st year end of
2022, we went through each ofthe 4 diagnosis, these red,
green, purple, gold, and wetalked through our favorite
strategies for each diagnosis.So HSA is really a red strategy
in the teaching tax flow system,but also also gold because
there's tax free growth anddistribution. So you might be
(14:58):
thinking of that.
See, we did a 4 part serieswhere we went into each color
coded diagnosis, which seguesaway nice segues nicely into my
number 2. This would beretirement plan distributions.
Now I'm going to put a caveat inhere. This assumes you're not
(15:19):
paying a 10% early distributionpenalty from your retirement
plan. We highly recommendavoiding that.
But if you are in a situationwhere you can take money out of
your retirement account and youare still in a low marginal tax
rate, that's when you wouldaccelerate income, meaning you
are a green diagnosis. Greenmeans go. Let me give you an
(15:42):
example, John. Let's say you'vegot someone I mean, we both grew
up in the Detroit area. Right?
Commonplace. Let's say you'vegot somebody, and and we're not
gonna name names, but I I theseare these are client former
clients. Right? They startedworking at they're deceased now,
(16:04):
first of all. So it's not likethey you know, we kicked them to
the curb.
Baby boomers drafted drafted toVietnam, went to Vietnam, came
home at age 21, started workingat the big three, put in 30
years retired full pension at51. Okay? Now does that happen
anymore? Not really. They can'treally take money out of their
(16:26):
retirement accounts.
Well, they are till 59 and ahalf, let's say. Or they they
they there's creative ways theycould out of their 401 k. But
the point is, they're aged 51.They have a a lot of money in
their 401 k plan. They've beensaving diligently.
They don't have a they paid offtheir modest home. They aren't
gonna see Social Security incomefor 15 years plus. So,
(16:48):
ultimately, let's say they'regetting a pension from General
Motors or Chrysler or Ford of$40,000 a year. And, you know,
they don't have any expenses.And when I started this 20 years
ago or so, there are people likethat out there.
Right? Their home was probablyliving a $60,000 home, paid off
$40,000 a year. But my point is,right now, they would pay all of
(17:12):
$2,000 of federal tax per yearMhmm. Because of the because of
the standard deduction. In thatcase, even if they didn't need
the money, they should starttaking money out of their 4 zero
one k plan early, not early, butnow.
They would assuming they don'thave a 10% penalty, and just put
it in savings or do somethingwith it. Because at some point,
(17:33):
if that money continues to growfor the next 19 years and they
have to they have to take it outusing a required minimum
distribution, it's gonna beprobably taxed at a higher rate,
and their Social Security couldbe taxed. So the point is there
are a lot of people or there arepeople, you know, that could
take money out of a retirementplan that are real estate
professional status, and becausethey have a huge, you know, cost
segregation study or may again,remember I said that you don't
(17:55):
you can have a lower low taxableincome and be extremely wealthy.
So in that case, a retirementplan distribution might make
sense. So taking money out ofyour retirement plan, assuming
that you're not paying the 10%penalty, in the same year that
you have a low amount of taxableincome is my number 2 strategy
(18:15):
for, lower to middle incomehouseholds.
John Tripolsky (18:19):
And before we get into the third one, if if
our listeners feel maybe alittle overwhelmed or a little
confused right now, totallyfine. I'll give you a fun fact
that'll make you feel a lotbetter. Right? So, you know, we
we mentioned a couple of timesnow, you know, you gave the
example of back in the day, youknow, quote, unquote, back in
the day. Think of think about itthis way.
(18:39):
Right? You might be overwhelmedat this very moment, but at
least you're also not ourparents slash grandparents who
were paying 14 to 17% interestrates on homes. So so that is a
plus. Kinda unrelated to this,but, you know, we take a little
comedic
Chris Picciurro (18:56):
frame to It does relate, though, because
those folks would you know,because the interest rates were
so high, they would wanna paytheir mortgage off as quickly as
possible. And lending was wasdifferent then. So, so, yeah,
that's that's so in those cases,we we work we work on those type
of plans and take thoseretirement distributions. There
(19:16):
are certain situations where youcan take money out of an a
retirement account early and youyou get an exception from that
10% penalty. So definitely workwith a tax professional.
Don't just wing it on your own,but but these are some of that's
that's my second strategy forthese type of households. Now
number 3, using Roth accounts.And there are 2 ways to you can
(19:38):
use a Roth account to youradvantage. One of them is, I'm
gonna call it cousin of thesecond strategy, a Roth
conversion. So it is aretirement distribution account,
but it's instead of it cominginto your pocket that money, you
are converting it to a Roth.
So there won't be a 10% penalty,but now you have that money
growing tax free. And this is astrategy we use all the time.
(20:02):
Excuse me. Because, you know,real case in point, we are
working with a client. Clientaverage is average income was
about $550,000 over the last 4years.
Socked away a lot of money, madegreat investments. Client's
gonna retire in about 8 years,and they wanna spend time with
(20:23):
their kids. So they're gonnatake a sabbatical from work, and
they live within their means.They could take a year off, year
and a half off from work withvery, very little taxable
income, yet they were makingover half a $1,000,000 just last
year. In that case, Rothconversions is a great option
for them.
Because they have a dependent,we can move every year a 100 and
(20:44):
a $125,000 of money out of theirretirement IRA or 401 k into a
Roth and paid maybe $10,000worth of tax. And now that
money's gonna grow for them, youknow, tax free the rest of their
life. So so the Roth is my 3rdstrategy. The Roth conversion,
cousin of retirement plandistribution, is one component
(21:06):
in Roth contributions. Oh, I'mgonna get you know, John, it
might make when I hear 10.99employee, you know how I get set
off like a firecracker.
John Tripolsky (21:18):
Gosh. Yeah. That's like somebody showing up
late to
Chris Picciurro (21:20):
a meeting with me. Right. Something that might
set me off worse is when I seeyounger usually younger, but it
doesn't have to be younger,taxpayers with a low marginal
tax rate. So they're they're inthis group that we're talking
about, 10%, 12% marginal taxrate. And they because they got
(21:42):
to work the 1st day, signed upfor the 4 zero one k plan,
they're putting money in their 4zero one k plan.
I'm not saying that's a badthing, but why don't you put it
into a Roth? If you're 30, 25,30 years old, teachers, I see
this a lot because they go signup. They're excited to start
work. First thing they do is putit in I know they don't have 401
k plans for teachers, but put itin their 403b or 457 plan for
(22:07):
and get a tax deduction. They'renot paying any tax.
Right? They're they're may let'ssay they're making $50,000 a
year. They're paying for theirmedical insurance pretax.
Ultimately, they're payingthey're getting peanuts of it.
You know, let's say they put a,you know, $3,000 in, and they
get a $400 tax benefit rightnow.
(22:30):
Big whip. Put it in your Rothportion. Right? Because that
$3,000, I know I've done thiscalculation before on the fly,
not the smartest thing to do.But let's say that money is
gonna double, you know, 5 timesbefore they retire.
3000 is 6, 12, 24, 4896. Wouldyou rather have $96,000 in your
(22:52):
retirement tax for retire taxfree or an extra few $100 in
your pocket now. And you have topay tax on all that money when
you retire. So Rothcontributions are part of my
number 3 strategy for middle tolower income. The the 4 the IRA
contribution or traditional 401k really doesn't do you that
(23:12):
much good.
And for for those people, a lotof them get a retirement saver's
credit on their federal taxreturn. Roth contributions are
eligible for that retirementsavers credit.
John Tripolsky (23:23):
Mhmm. Mhmm. Well, pretty good, man. I I know
there was those 3, and I'm I'msure if we really poked and
prodded you, we can get a couplemore couple more out of you,
but, meh, we'll let you off thehook. And, again, I I really
like this topic because I I knowa lot of the a lot of the topics
we do here on the podcast,obviously, it's content that's
coming from our community,coming from our audience.
(23:44):
So sometimes it tends to get alittle skewed towards higher
income earners, real estateinvestors, etcetera. So I love
these ones that really have havea little bit of a wider
wingspan, if we will. A littlewider reach, a lot more of those
average household incomes. Andand plus, Chris, you know, going
back, you know, thinking about ayear and a half ago. Right?
Well, even now we're we'reepisode 1, 82 in. You know, our
(24:07):
goal even when well before welaunched this podcast, right,
was to make as much of an impactas we possibly could through
teaching tax flow withtaxpayers. So educating them of
opportunities that are outthere, and really putting the
the power in their hands and ina nonaggressive way, but taking
(24:29):
it out of the IRS's handsenough. Right? Because and I'm
gonna quote you on this one.
Right? If you don't if you don'ttax plan and and take, take
advantage of a lot of thestrategies, you know, the IRS
will pick your tax. So if youdon't pick your tax, they will,
and they're never gonna pick itin your in your favor. Right?
Chris Picciurro (24:46):
John, I'm very proud of you. This is this is a
proud was a proud moment. Yep.You pick your tax, or they do.
You don't.
And if you don't pick your tax,they're going to be. Or
sometimes we say yours ortheirs. What does theirs spell?
The IRS.
John Tripolsky (25:02):
Oh, that's just that's just nasty, isn't it? It
sounds dirty. But no. But, Imean, take that to heart.
Anybody who's listening to this,again, I know some of this might
seem a little bit overwhelming.
If you've never if you've never,really dove into this at all, we
are here for you. Please drop usa line. Connect with us. We are
(25:23):
an excellent resource. If youhaven't take advantage of it
yet, even just sign up for abasic, teaching tax full
membership.
It's free. Completely free. Soyou got a bunch of courses on
there. You can take you can diveinto this content. Obviously,
this podcast, we do completelyungated.
We release it into the wild forfree for everybody, because
that's what we're here for. Sowe extrapolate the information
(25:46):
from Chris's head every once ina while and just throw it out
there into the into theecosphere. So, Chris, we
appreciate it, man. Thank youfor running running through
those with us.
Chris Picciurro (25:55):
My pleasure. It feels good to do these type of
things for different types oftaxpayers. And, like, I
reiterate, love what you said.Jump in to our either LinkedIn
group or private Facebook group,and let us connect you with the
people that can help you executethese strategies.
John Tripolsky (26:11):
Awesome. Awesome. And before I close it
out as I always do, I wanna makea very good point, very strong
point here. Chris does not knowthis one's coming, but I can
always tell when he's super,super in tune with what we're
saying because he doesn'tmention pickleball. So on that
note, see you back here.
(26:32):
Same time. Well, different time.Same place, different topic.
Back on the teaching tax loanpodcast. Thanks for hanging out
with us everybody.
John here from the teaching taxflow team. We let Chris off the
hook here. He is out probablyplaying pickleball on the
courts. I'm slowly getting intune with the terminology. Heck,
(26:54):
I feel like I know more abouttaxes than I do pickleball
hanging out with this guy, buthe's trying to change that.
I promise you that. But in allseriousness, again, this topic
is something that maybe it's alittle intimidating. I know we
mentioned that a couple times inthe show if you haven't been
exposed to it yet. But, again,that's what we are here for.
That literally is our missionwith teaching tax flow.
(27:16):
So couple resources for you. Iwill throw at you here in the
outro, but also drop them in theshow notes. You have our
defeating taxes. That is aprivate Facebook group started
by teaching tax flow. Chris,myself, the team, there's a lot
of tax pros on there.
There's a lot of taxpayers onthere naturally. So post your
questions on there. You can doit anonymously too if you had a
(27:38):
question you did not want theworld to see your business, but
I promise you there is a lot ofbrainpower in that group. And
the easy thing for us is wedon't even have to monitor it.
We don't have to slap anybody onthe hands for saying anything
inappropriate.
Everybody there is there tohelp. Also, as mentioned, sign
up for that free teaching taxflow basic membership. The link
(28:00):
is in the show notes. Again,completely free. No strings
attached.
Guarantee you'll pretty muchlearn something from that. Very
easy to navigate. If you haveany questions or looking for
something specific you cannotfind on there, it's probably in
there. We have a ton of courses.Shoot us an email.
Drop us a line on any of oursocials. We're happy to guide
you in the right direction. Andif it's something that we don't
(28:21):
have on there, even better,maybe it'll be a podcast
episode. Maybe it'll be acourse. That's, again, what we
are here for to help everybodyout as taxpayers and taking the
power away from the IRS in anonaggressive legally and ethic
legally and ethically manner.
Doesn't sound right, but you getwhat I'm saying. Alright,
(28:42):
everybody. We will see you backhere next week. As mentioned,
new topics. Looking at theroster, we have some fantastic
ones for those real estateinvestors and just the general
taxpayer.
We got a great, great lineup ofguests. Talk to you soon.
Disclaimer (28:58):
Investment advisory services are offered through
Cabin Advisors, a registeredinvestment adviser. Securities
are offered through CabinSecurities, a registered broker
dealer. The content of thispodcast does not constitute an
offer of securities.
Offerings can only be madethrough an offering memorandum,
and you should carefully examinethe risk factors and other
information contained in thememorandum.
Welcome to the Teaching Tax Flow podcast, where the goal
is to empower and educate you tolegally and ethically minimize
taxes paid over your lifetime.
John Tripolsky (00:18):
Welcome back to the podcast, everybody. Episode
84 today, we are gonna dive intoa very interesting and specific
topic on today's show. We'regonna look at those top tax
strategies for low to mid incomehouseholds. That's households
averaging roughly 100 k andbelow an annual taxable income.
But before we do that, asalways, let's take a brief
(00:39):
moment and thank our episodesponsor.
Ad Read (00:45):
Hi. Chris Piccurrio here, founder of Teaching Tax
Flow, cohost of the Teaching TaxFlow podcast, and pickleball
enthusiast. Yes. If you listento the podcast, you know almost
every episode we talk aboutpickleball, the most popular and
growing sport in America. Wehave tons of opportunities for
paddles and and pickleballs, butwe don't have a lot of great
gear on the market.
(01:05):
Well, I'm so excited to announcethat Sunsets and Dink's are now
a sponsor of the Teaching TaxSlow podcast and produce amazing
gear, not only to look at, butyou feel confident on the court.
Because you are part of theteaching tax law community, you
get a 15% discount on all yourorders with them. I know I love
the gear I received and I havequite a good record while
(01:27):
wearing it, believe it or not,even at my level. Go to teaching
tax flow.com backslashpickleball and simply enter t t
f 15 in the serve up promo codearea of your paddle rack.
John Tripolsky (01:43):
Alright, everybody. Let's jump into
today's episode. As mentionedthere in the intro, in the
title, and in the description inthe show notes there, which you
probably didn't read. So we'regonna tell you about it anyways,
a little bit more of detail. Butbefore we do that too, we have
to welcome the bald guy backwith all the knowledge.
Chris Bacuro, what's happening,man? How are we doing today?
Chris Picciurro (02:05):
I am doing great, John. I'm gonna put you
on the spot, and you love when Ido that because you do that to
me with your tax questions.
John Tripolsky (02:12):
Oh, boy. Here we go.
Chris Picciurro (02:14):
The number 84 has a very, very special place
in my heart. Can you guess why?84.
John Tripolsky (02:25):
Well, actually. Well, probably because
Chris Picciurro (02:28):
it's such an obscure number. It's the last
year the Tigers won the WorldSeries, 1984. I was just a young
9 year old boy running aroundnext to my next door neighbor's
house, you know, counting downthe outs as the Detroit Tigers
took out the San Diego Padres ingame 5 of the 1984 World Series,
who'd have known 40 years laterI would still be waiting for the
(02:50):
Tigers to get that elusive worldseries trophy back.
John Tripolsky (02:55):
Hey. That's how Detroit Lions fans feel, though,
too, about even just making theplayoffs. And see, things
happen. So it you know? True.
True.
Chris Picciurro (03:02):
Well
John Tripolsky (03:02):
You can't you can't, you can't throw on the
ball just yet.
Chris Picciurro (03:07):
I know.
John Tripolsky (03:08):
It's just It's all good.
Chris Picciurro (03:08):
Been a long time for for those those Tigers.
We had some chances into theworld series, but but that has
nothing to do. Although, if, youknow, if you with the price of
sporting events now, you have tobe a high marginal tax rate
household to to even afford togo to these dang games. Oh, just
a problem. Like the old man onthe porch.
John Tripolsky (03:27):
Hey. Hey. To get my mom out. You know what? At
least so you know what?
I'm not even gonna make an oldjoke because you're not that
much older than me. Let's behonest. I was gonna I was gonna
say, hey. Back in the day, youknow, when last time they won
the world series, that wasprobably when you could, you
know, catch a home run, take theball, and then they'd give you a
free ticket to the game. Butwe're not talking about the
fifties here.
So we're Yeah.
Chris Picciurro (03:46):
That might be before my time.
John Tripolsky (03:48):
That is that's right. I guarantee that's pretty
much before your time. Butspeaking of before people's
time. Right? So let's talk aboutthis one.
And and this topic here, again,just to kinda reiterate, you
know, again, what it said in theshow title, the description, and
the intro, We're looking atthose households, which makes up
a huge percentage of the UnitedStates population that averages
(04:12):
less than a 100 k, $100,000 ayear in annual taxable income.
So we're gonna look at those toptax strategies. But before we do
that too, Chris, I wanna I wannamention that. Forget what
episode that we talked aboutthis specifically, and I know
we've done it multiple times.Right?
We talk a lot about tax planningand strategy and how some people
(04:32):
think that, oh, that doesn'tapply to me. You know, I'm not
making 500,000 or a $1,000,000 ayear. That's like going to a
country club. You know, it'sit's out of reach, some people
think, for themselves. Well, thegood news is the country club
left their door open andunlocked in the middle of the
night.
You can walk right in. So let'stalk about why it's so important
(04:55):
for even these households to taxplan for lack of better terms.
Chris Picciurro (05:00):
It's very important for everyone to tax
plan, and I always argue thatthe the lower to middle income
taxable income households, taxplanning and strategy is more
important than to someone in ahigher marginal tax rate. Why?
Well, the dollars are less, butthe percentage of their income
is more. And, unfortunately,most tax planning and strategy
(05:20):
focuses on your high net worth,higher income households. So we
wanted to do this podcast.
We had a reel on Facebook thatthat got a lot of attention when
we talked about this, and and soI've broken down my 3 favorite
tax planning strategies, forthese type of households. But
before that, we let's definewhat we consider lower to middle
(05:45):
income households. In theteaching tax flow system, we
believe that, your marginal taxrate is your most important KPI.
And and it's important for manyreasons because there's a lot
not only is your tax the amountof tax you pay, but the amount
of credits you received,including child tax credits,
earned income tax credits,daycare credits, all really
(06:05):
depend on on this figure, and alot of them on your adjusted
gross income or modifiedadjusted gross income. So what
we would define as lower tomiddle income households, is
there anyone in the 12% or lowertax bracket.
So for single filers in 2024,that number is approximately
(06:27):
$63,000 of of of income,adjusted gross income or less.
And I'm taking into account thebrackets. I'm also taking into
account a standard deduction.For head of household taxpayers,
that's about $84,000, $85,000 orless. And for married filing
joint taxpayers, it's a whopping$125,000 of of adjusted gross
(06:50):
income or less.
So that's that's the range thatwe're looking at. And for those
type of taxpayers in theteaching tax law system, we
categorize them as a goaldiagnosis, meaning that they can
accept accelerated income.Their, rather green diagnosis.
(07:12):
In gold diagnosis, they shouldfocus on tax free income and
growth. I wanna point out onemore thing, John.
The amount of I mean, we theseare facts. We have people in our
private CPA practice that areabsolute millionaires and still
considered in a lower or middleincome household because income
and assets are 2 differentconcepts. So this doesn't mean
(07:32):
if you're in this situation thatyou are not wealthy. Some of our
wealthiest, wealthiest clientsare in this in this, in these in
these categories. So let's sonow that we define that, let's
start diving in because wetalked diagnose, prescribe, IQ
test, implement when we talkabout tax strategy.
(07:53):
So we've diagnosed you. Ifyou're if if either you are in
this category or you have afamily, a friend, I want you to
share this with them. What arethe three things? And I try to
create, I tried to pick out realbasic strategies that anyone
could do. You don't need tobuild a team of people to make
them, happen or implement.
(08:14):
What are the top threestrategies for these type of
taxpayers? In no particularorder, except actually now that
I think about it, they're inorder. I'm gonna do next one of
my most favorite last.
John Tripolsky (08:27):
There you go. There you go. And and, Chris,
let's go back just briefly to Iknow we touched on. So we we
always mention too, you know,household incomes, tax marginal
tax rate. So we're looking at,you know, we say a 100,000 and
below for a household income.
So how does I mean, we talkabout it a lot, but let's
(08:49):
reiterate it. You know? Whatexactly is a household income to
individuals? Right? Families,individuals, how does it look?
Chris Picciurro (08:55):
Yeah. Your adjusted gross income is really
your taxable income. Alright? Sosome things that are tax free,
like buy some, some type ofmunicipal bond interest or, or
what have you. And some of the,some of your income is taxed as
net income.
So rental income and and selfemployment income. This is just
an accumulation of all of yourtaxable income items, starting
at the top with w two wages allthe way down to taxable Social
(09:18):
Security, retirement plandistributions, bank interest,
dividends, capital gains,capital losses. Could be
gambling income. It could be anytype of income in the in when
you add it up of what what playsa role in making up your
adjusted gross income. Now we doknow that different types of
income are taxed at differentrates.
(09:40):
But to define the low to middleincome households, we had to
kinda draw we had to draw a linein the sand and say that range,
we're talking about 65 to a$125,000 depending on your
filing status or less. Perfect.Perfect answer.
John Tripolsky (09:55):
And then also, you know, when we dive into
these strategies, right, are wegoing to or does it really make
a difference? Right? Are welooking at say it's a family of
2, you know, or a household of2. Say they're both w two full
time employees. Say one ofthem's an employee, one of
them's self employed, how big ofhow big of a difference can we
(10:15):
expect that to make as we getinto these?
Chris Picciurro (10:18):
Well, I mean, it's self employ if you're self
employed, you're playing payingthe self employment tax, which
is gonna be an extra 15.3%. So,yes, someone that makes a
$100,000 of of, self employmentincome versus someone that's a w
two at a $100,000, their federaltax they pay is gonna be the
(10:39):
same. Yet, the self employmenttax for the w for the for the,
self employed person is gonna be15.3%, where the employee is
gonna pay only half of thatthrough their payroll. Now the
self employed person, though,can offset their income with
home office deduction and anytype of ordinary necessary
business expenses.
John Tripolsky (10:59):
Perfect. Perfect. Perfect. Alright. So I
won't do a drum roll in thispodcast, but let's dive into it.
Chris Picciurro (11:07):
Alright. Number 1 is a health savings account
contribution for a few quite afew reasons. Now you might be
saying, wait a second. You justsaid that these folks aren't
necessarily worried about taxdeductions. And I would agree.
Right? You're, you're more,we're more worried about tax
free income and growth. Yet,because the, typically, people
(11:33):
in this in the with this incomelevel do not itemize their
deductions. And even if youitemize your deductions, the
medical expenses are verylimited, and they have to exceed
7 a half percent of your income.So just numbers wise, most of
the people that that thissituation applies to, which is,
by the way, the vast majority ofpeople in this country, do not
(11:54):
get a deduction for out ofpocket medical expenses.
So you might as well make thathealth savings account
contribution if you're going tohave those medical expenses for
at least your deductible, andtake that off the tax return
because you will, you know,maybe preserve, again, some
child tax credits, some earnedincome credit tax credits. And
(12:16):
since you're not getting anydeduction for it anyway, you
might as well utilize thathealth savings account
contribution if you areeligible. Shameless plug. We
have other content on healthsavings account contributions,
And you can there's there's aadvanced tax strategy, where you
could do a one time conversionfrom an IRA to a HSA. But,
(12:40):
again, this echoes beyond thisconversation.
My point is health savingsaccount contributions, a great
way to at least get a taxdeduction. Even if it's $1,000 a
year and that's your deductible,take advantage of it. Put the
money in a HSA account. It growstax free if you use it for
medical expenses. The otherthing is typically people with
lower to middle incomehouseholds, it's very hard for
(13:02):
them to have a a savings accountdesignated just for unexpected
health expenses, dentalexpenses.
So to have that bucket separatedout in a tax efficient way is is
very is very good. So so, John,let me for instance, if someone
if there's a married couple,let's say they have a teenager,
(13:24):
and let's say their tax billincome is $80,000 a year or
gross income. So their net andtheir taxable income is maybe
55. If their child needs bracesand it's $3,000 having that
health savings account set upwith the money in it is gonna be
a huge stress relief for themversus if you have a household
that they make $800,000 a yearand their child needs braces,
(13:49):
they probably don't take asecond thought of saying, okay,
just get the braces. So that'swhy I'm saying tax planning is
so important for the for thesetype of households.
John Tripolsky (13:57):
It's almost like you get it you you know, in
layman's terms, you get muchmore bang for your buck or
efforts, we should say. Right?And, honestly, Chris, going
back, and and I'm trying to justrecall what episode that was
where we really dove into it. Itwas pretty early on, where we've
really, really kinda drew theline in the sand on or I should
(14:18):
say we erased the line in thesand actually on who tax
planning and and, you know,strategy is most beneficial for,
who can take advantage of it.And I'm not gonna lie.
I was even shocked at the end ofthat. I'm like, okay. Well, this
is definitely a lesser knownfact in the wonderful world that
we live in. Right? A lot ofpeople
Chris Picciurro (14:37):
year and a half ago. Yeah. That 1st year end of
2022, we went through each ofthe 4 diagnosis, these red,
green, purple, gold, and wetalked through our favorite
strategies for each diagnosis.So HSA is really a red strategy
in the teaching tax flow system,but also also gold because
there's tax free growth anddistribution. So you might be
(14:58):
thinking of that.
See, we did a 4 part serieswhere we went into each color
coded diagnosis, which seguesaway nice segues nicely into my
number 2. This would beretirement plan distributions.
Now I'm going to put a caveat inhere. This assumes you're not
(15:19):
paying a 10% early distributionpenalty from your retirement
plan. We highly recommendavoiding that.
But if you are in a situationwhere you can take money out of
your retirement account and youare still in a low marginal tax
rate, that's when you wouldaccelerate income, meaning you
are a green diagnosis. Greenmeans go. Let me give you an
(15:42):
example, John. Let's say you'vegot someone I mean, we both grew
up in the Detroit area. Right?
Commonplace. Let's say you'vegot somebody, and and we're not
gonna name names, but I I theseare these are client former
clients. Right? They startedworking at they're deceased now,
(16:04):
first of all. So it's not likethey you know, we kicked them to
the curb.
Baby boomers drafted drafted toVietnam, went to Vietnam, came
home at age 21, started workingat the big three, put in 30
years retired full pension at51. Okay? Now does that happen
anymore? Not really. They can'treally take money out of their
(16:26):
retirement accounts.
Well, they are till 59 and ahalf, let's say. Or they they
they there's creative ways theycould out of their 401 k. But
the point is, they're aged 51.They have a a lot of money in
their 401 k plan. They've beensaving diligently.
They don't have a they paid offtheir modest home. They aren't
gonna see Social Security incomefor 15 years plus. So,
(16:48):
ultimately, let's say they'regetting a pension from General
Motors or Chrysler or Ford of$40,000 a year. And, you know,
they don't have any expenses.And when I started this 20 years
ago or so, there are people likethat out there.
Right? Their home was probablyliving a $60,000 home, paid off
$40,000 a year. But my point is,right now, they would pay all of
(17:12):
$2,000 of federal tax per yearMhmm. Because of the because of
the standard deduction. In thatcase, even if they didn't need
the money, they should starttaking money out of their 4 zero
one k plan early, not early, butnow.
They would assuming they don'thave a 10% penalty, and just put
it in savings or do somethingwith it. Because at some point,
(17:33):
if that money continues to growfor the next 19 years and they
have to they have to take it outusing a required minimum
distribution, it's gonna beprobably taxed at a higher rate,
and their Social Security couldbe taxed. So the point is there
are a lot of people or there arepeople, you know, that could
take money out of a retirementplan that are real estate
professional status, and becausethey have a huge, you know, cost
segregation study or may again,remember I said that you don't
(17:55):
you can have a lower low taxableincome and be extremely wealthy.
So in that case, a retirementplan distribution might make
sense. So taking money out ofyour retirement plan, assuming
that you're not paying the 10%penalty, in the same year that
you have a low amount of taxableincome is my number 2 strategy
(18:15):
for, lower to middle incomehouseholds.
John Tripolsky (18:19):
And before we get into the third one, if if
our listeners feel maybe alittle overwhelmed or a little
confused right now, totallyfine. I'll give you a fun fact
that'll make you feel a lotbetter. Right? So, you know, we
we mentioned a couple of timesnow, you know, you gave the
example of back in the day, youknow, quote, unquote, back in
the day. Think of think about itthis way.
(18:39):
Right? You might be overwhelmedat this very moment, but at
least you're also not ourparents slash grandparents who
were paying 14 to 17% interestrates on homes. So so that is a
plus. Kinda unrelated to this,but, you know, we take a little
comedic
Chris Picciurro (18:56):
frame to It does relate, though, because
those folks would you know,because the interest rates were
so high, they would wanna paytheir mortgage off as quickly as
possible. And lending was wasdifferent then. So, so, yeah,
that's that's so in those cases,we we work we work on those type
of plans and take thoseretirement distributions. There
(19:16):
are certain situations where youcan take money out of an a
retirement account early and youyou get an exception from that
10% penalty. So definitely workwith a tax professional.
Don't just wing it on your own,but but these are some of that's
that's my second strategy forthese type of households. Now
number 3, using Roth accounts.And there are 2 ways to you can
(19:38):
use a Roth account to youradvantage. One of them is, I'm
gonna call it cousin of thesecond strategy, a Roth
conversion. So it is aretirement distribution account,
but it's instead of it cominginto your pocket that money, you
are converting it to a Roth.
So there won't be a 10% penalty,but now you have that money
growing tax free. And this is astrategy we use all the time.
(20:02):
Excuse me. Because, you know,real case in point, we are
working with a client. Clientaverage is average income was
about $550,000 over the last 4years.
Socked away a lot of money, madegreat investments. Client's
gonna retire in about 8 years,and they wanna spend time with
(20:23):
their kids. So they're gonnatake a sabbatical from work, and
they live within their means.They could take a year off, year
and a half off from work withvery, very little taxable
income, yet they were makingover half a $1,000,000 just last
year. In that case, Rothconversions is a great option
for them.
Because they have a dependent,we can move every year a 100 and
(20:44):
a $125,000 of money out of theirretirement IRA or 401 k into a
Roth and paid maybe $10,000worth of tax. And now that
money's gonna grow for them, youknow, tax free the rest of their
life. So so the Roth is my 3rdstrategy. The Roth conversion,
cousin of retirement plandistribution, is one component
(21:06):
in Roth contributions. Oh, I'mgonna get you know, John, it
might make when I hear 10.99employee, you know how I get set
off like a firecracker.
John Tripolsky (21:18):
Gosh. Yeah. That's like somebody showing up
late to
Chris Picciurro (21:20):
a meeting with me. Right. Something that might
set me off worse is when I seeyounger usually younger, but it
doesn't have to be younger,taxpayers with a low marginal
tax rate. So they're they're inthis group that we're talking
about, 10%, 12% marginal taxrate. And they because they got
(21:42):
to work the 1st day, signed upfor the 4 zero one k plan,
they're putting money in their 4zero one k plan.
I'm not saying that's a badthing, but why don't you put it
into a Roth? If you're 30, 25,30 years old, teachers, I see
this a lot because they go signup. They're excited to start
work. First thing they do is putit in I know they don't have 401
k plans for teachers, but put itin their 403b or 457 plan for
(22:07):
and get a tax deduction. They'renot paying any tax.
Right? They're they're may let'ssay they're making $50,000 a
year. They're paying for theirmedical insurance pretax.
Ultimately, they're payingthey're getting peanuts of it.
You know, let's say they put a,you know, $3,000 in, and they
get a $400 tax benefit rightnow.
(22:30):
Big whip. Put it in your Rothportion. Right? Because that
$3,000, I know I've done thiscalculation before on the fly,
not the smartest thing to do.But let's say that money is
gonna double, you know, 5 timesbefore they retire.
3000 is 6, 12, 24, 4896. Wouldyou rather have $96,000 in your
(22:52):
retirement tax for retire taxfree or an extra few $100 in
your pocket now. And you have topay tax on all that money when
you retire. So Rothcontributions are part of my
number 3 strategy for middle tolower income. The the 4 the IRA
contribution or traditional 401k really doesn't do you that
(23:12):
much good.
And for for those people, a lotof them get a retirement saver's
credit on their federal taxreturn. Roth contributions are
eligible for that retirementsavers credit.
John Tripolsky (23:23):
Mhmm. Mhmm. Well, pretty good, man. I I know
there was those 3, and I'm I'msure if we really poked and
prodded you, we can get a couplemore couple more out of you,
but, meh, we'll let you off thehook. And, again, I I really
like this topic because I I knowa lot of the a lot of the topics
we do here on the podcast,obviously, it's content that's
coming from our community,coming from our audience.
(23:44):
So sometimes it tends to get alittle skewed towards higher
income earners, real estateinvestors, etcetera. So I love
these ones that really have havea little bit of a wider
wingspan, if we will. A littlewider reach, a lot more of those
average household incomes. Andand plus, Chris, you know, going
back, you know, thinking about ayear and a half ago. Right?
Well, even now we're we'reepisode 1, 82 in. You know, our
(24:07):
goal even when well before welaunched this podcast, right,
was to make as much of an impactas we possibly could through
teaching tax flow withtaxpayers. So educating them of
opportunities that are outthere, and really putting the
the power in their hands and ina nonaggressive way, but taking
(24:29):
it out of the IRS's handsenough. Right? Because and I'm
gonna quote you on this one.
Right? If you don't if you don'ttax plan and and take, take
advantage of a lot of thestrategies, you know, the IRS
will pick your tax. So if youdon't pick your tax, they will,
and they're never gonna pick itin your in your favor. Right?
Chris Picciurro (24:46):
John, I'm very proud of you. This is this is a
proud was a proud moment. Yep.You pick your tax, or they do.
You don't.
And if you don't pick your tax,they're going to be. Or
sometimes we say yours ortheirs. What does theirs spell?
The IRS.
John Tripolsky (25:02):
Oh, that's just that's just nasty, isn't it? It
sounds dirty. But no. But, Imean, take that to heart.
Anybody who's listening to this,again, I know some of this might
seem a little bit overwhelming.
If you've never if you've never,really dove into this at all, we
are here for you. Please drop usa line. Connect with us. We are
(25:23):
an excellent resource. If youhaven't take advantage of it
yet, even just sign up for abasic, teaching tax full
membership.
It's free. Completely free. Soyou got a bunch of courses on
there. You can take you can diveinto this content. Obviously,
this podcast, we do completelyungated.
We release it into the wild forfree for everybody, because
that's what we're here for. Sowe extrapolate the information
(25:46):
from Chris's head every once ina while and just throw it out
there into the into theecosphere. So, Chris, we
appreciate it, man. Thank youfor running running through
those with us.
Chris Picciurro (25:55):
My pleasure. It feels good to do these type of
things for different types oftaxpayers. And, like, I
reiterate, love what you said.Jump in to our either LinkedIn
group or private Facebook group,and let us connect you with the
people that can help you executethese strategies.
John Tripolsky (26:11):
Awesome. Awesome. And before I close it
out as I always do, I wanna makea very good point, very strong
point here. Chris does not knowthis one's coming, but I can
always tell when he's super,super in tune with what we're
saying because he doesn'tmention pickleball. So on that
note, see you back here.
(26:32):
Same time. Well, different time.Same place, different topic.
Back on the teaching tax loanpodcast. Thanks for hanging out
with us everybody.
John here from the teaching taxflow team. We let Chris off the
hook here. He is out probablyplaying pickleball on the
courts. I'm slowly getting intune with the terminology. Heck,
(26:54):
I feel like I know more abouttaxes than I do pickleball
hanging out with this guy, buthe's trying to change that.
I promise you that. But in allseriousness, again, this topic
is something that maybe it's alittle intimidating. I know we
mentioned that a couple times inthe show if you haven't been
exposed to it yet. But, again,that's what we are here for.
That literally is our missionwith teaching tax flow.
(27:16):
So couple resources for you. Iwill throw at you here in the
outro, but also drop them in theshow notes. You have our
defeating taxes. That is aprivate Facebook group started
by teaching tax flow. Chris,myself, the team, there's a lot
of tax pros on there.
There's a lot of taxpayers onthere naturally. So post your
questions on there. You can doit anonymously too if you had a
(27:38):
question you did not want theworld to see your business, but
I promise you there is a lot ofbrainpower in that group. And
the easy thing for us is wedon't even have to monitor it.
We don't have to slap anybody onthe hands for saying anything
inappropriate.
Everybody there is there tohelp. Also, as mentioned, sign
up for that free teaching taxflow basic membership. The link
(28:00):
is in the show notes. Again,completely free. No strings
attached.
Guarantee you'll pretty muchlearn something from that. Very
easy to navigate. If you haveany questions or looking for
something specific you cannotfind on there, it's probably in
there. We have a ton of courses.Shoot us an email.
Drop us a line on any of oursocials. We're happy to guide
you in the right direction. Andif it's something that we don't
(28:21):
have on there, even better,maybe it'll be a podcast
episode. Maybe it'll be acourse. That's, again, what we
are here for to help everybodyout as taxpayers and taking the
power away from the IRS in anonaggressive legally and ethic
legally and ethically manner.
Doesn't sound right, but you getwhat I'm saying. Alright,
(28:42):
everybody. We will see you backhere next week. As mentioned,
new topics. Looking at theroster, we have some fantastic
ones for those real estateinvestors and just the general
taxpayer.
We got a great, great lineup ofguests. Talk to you soon.
Disclaimer (28:58):
Investment advisory services are offered through
Cabin Advisors, a registeredinvestment adviser. Securities
are offered through CabinSecurities, a registered broker
dealer. The content of thispodcast does not constitute an
offer of securities.
Offerings can only be madethrough an offering memorandum,
and you should carefully examinethe risk factors and other
information contained in thememorandum.
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