Equity Trek

In the latest installment of your favorite podcast, Elliott and Sarah host Justin Ayars, CEO and Founder of EqualityMD+. Discover how this innovative startup is using technology to transform the healthcare experiences for queer individuals and bridging the gap between underserved patients and care practitioners eager to provide more equitable, inclusive care. Plus, Elliott spills the beans about his recent Vegas escapade (aka HLTH 2023), and Sarah and Elliott resurrect a fan-favorite segment in a thrilling showdown of Techpocalypse Now 2.0. Tech It to the Limit!Original music by: Evan O’DonovanAdditional music by: SoulProdMusic and Ivymusic from Pixabay

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to Tech It To The Limit, the humorous and surprisingly informative podcast that

(00:22):
makes digital innovation and healthcare as entertaining as it is relevant.
I'm Sarah Harper.
And I'm Elliot Wilson.
And we're here to pull back the curtain on the world of digital transformation in healthcare.
Don't worry, you don't need a medical degree to join in on the fun.
Just a sense of humor and a penchant for all things health tech.
So buckle up folks.
It's time to...

(00:42):
Tech It To The Limit.
What's up Elliot?
What's up Sarah?
Oh my gosh, do you believe it's October?
Yeah, it's like one of my favorite months.
Happy Halloween.
What else is going on this month?
What's...

(01:03):
Why should we be celebrating October?
Well, did you know that it is LGBTQ History Month?
I didn't know that.
Indeed it is.
And on top of it, October 11th is also National Coming Out Day, which is very exciting.
It's funny that we call it National Coming Out Day, but National Coming Out is a process.

(01:24):
So like, never not be coming out.
ABC always be coming out.
But in...
Don't tell it on the freaking mountain, Elliot.
That's right.
That's right.
And so in honor of that, we have a very special guest this month on Tech It To The Limit.
We have Justin Ayers, who is a fantastic tech entrepreneur, who is going to be joining

(01:50):
us today and we're going to be talking about culturally competent care and what that really
means, especially around the queer community.
It was a fantastic conversation.
I can't wait for you all to hear it, as well as taking you on this epic space journey,
a space odyssey, if you will.
It was educational on so many levels for me because I was not a born Trekkie, but now

(02:12):
I'm like, I'm really curious.
And I obviously have a lot of education to do in that realm.
So you would describe yourself as sci-fi curious.
Sci-fi curious or Trekkie-ish, which is not the same as Epicurious.
I'm super impressed with Justin as well.
His vocabulary, diction and his articulation rivaled that of our last guest, Sarah Bell.

(02:37):
So super excited for our audience to hear him as well.
But before we jump into that, Elliot, I want to hear what you've been up to because honestly,
you have not been very active on LinkedIn.
It's like you went into this black hole and no one knows what's going on in your professional
life.

(02:58):
So tell me, give me an update.
What have you been doing for the past five days?
Yeah, it was kind of boring without in Las Vegas.
So I didn't really want to take up people's time on LinkedIn at the health conference
or if you're a 75 white male, the HLTH conference.
No way.
Please tell me nobody called it that.

(03:19):
Many people on the main stage.
That's a faux pas.
Okay.
No faux pas.
You have like a yellow card.
I mean, honestly, it's health.
It's obviously health, but it's cooler because there's no vowels.
Right.
Not for millennial.
We have to educate these folks.
Seriously.
No, I was out health as you can hear by my voice.

(03:42):
You have your voice left.
Well, when Fat Joe and Ashanti are out there on stage, you start screaming a bit.
Are you kidding me?
It was amazing.
It was amazing.
It was a great concert.
Dropping them beats.
It was so good.
Yeah, no, I was there and I was rather active on LinkedIn as I tend to be at these conferences
because what else are you going to do with your time?

(04:04):
It's just, you get to see so many.
This is one of the things I love about health.
It's such a high energy show and there's so many great people there.
And it's also a spectacle health in general and its other show Vive.
It is a spectacle and that's one of the things that I love about it.
And just getting to see so many different friends and colleagues that I've worked with

(04:27):
in the past or have partied with in the past or just had wonderful sidebar intellectual
conversations with in the past, such as you.
So it's a wonderful show.
But specifically for me, it was kind of personally important as well.
This was sort of a coming out for me as well and my small business, flying pig consulting.

(04:52):
So this was one of the first big shows that I took flying pig for a flight.
And it was very exciting to do that.
And what a difference in my approach and the experience having my own organization there
as opposed to working for someone else's organization there, the freedom that that provides.

(05:14):
So it was just very personally fulfilling and enriching.
But some of my key takeaways here, because that's what we like to talk about at health.
First off was just the absolute insane amount of startups that were there.
This was really driven by, I don't know, eight or nine different accelerators that each had

(05:35):
their own massive pavilion on the show floor where they had brought in the startups from
their accelerators in these sort of micro booths.
And you would have 10 to 15, 20 of these startups in each of these pavilions.
So the idea that you could go around and see all of these, and that's not even including

(05:58):
all the other exhibitors on the floor.
That's just in the pavilions.
I mean, it was just like a bajillion different companies there, and it's just impossible
to see them all as much as I tried.
There was some really cool tech.
That's one of the reasons I love health as opposed to other conferences.
They just provide some really great new tech to look at and marvel at.

(06:19):
I was surprised by the blandness of the main stage speakers, though.
I was really surprised by that.
I'm not going to call out.
Well, I mean, just lack of energy, lack of excitement.
They weren't bringing anything to really get jazzed up about.
I'm not going to call anybody out specifically, but just generally, a lot of them, this isn't

(06:44):
my phrase, pale male and stale.
And it just wasn't the exciting thing that I want to see at health or that I have seen
at health in the past with one noted exception.
Okay.
Which was actually my favorite session that I saw on the main stage while I was there.

(07:05):
It was this conversation between Rick Gilphelen, who is a former CEO of Trinity Health.
He was the first director of the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation at CMS.
He's the previous CEO of the Geisinger Health Plan.
There's a conversation between him and Dr. Sachin Jayne, who is the leader of Scan Health,

(07:30):
which is one of the largest, if not the largest Medicare Advantage plans in the country.
And he is a former deputy director of policy at CMMI.
I'm not sure if they were there at the same time or not, but they just have a wealth of
knowledge around Medicare Advantage plans and alternative payment models.

(07:51):
And they did not agree with each other.
They were very nice.
I wouldn't say they were cordial.
I would say they were nice to each other and polite to each other.
But you could see that they heartedly disagreed with each other.
So it's like high school debate comes.
Yes.
I mean, it was a lively debate and they were both very dynamic and very interesting and

(08:12):
brought up incredibly good points on both sides of the issue.
I find the Medicare Advantage question to be one of the most important questions of the
day, especially around its ability to affect investment in health tech and the use of health
tech.
And we just hit that tipping point of more Medicare Advantage than traditional Medicare

(08:32):
in terms of covered lives.
And so it was just fantastic.
And Rick Gilflin, the former CEO of Trinity, he came out right out the gate and was like,
hey, we've done Medicare Advantage for like three decades.
And guess what?
It sucks.
It doesn't reduce costs.
It doesn't reduce costs.
And it makes quality worse.

(08:53):
And it was just like, I was like, oh, OK, I'm going to sit up and listen to this.
And so it was a very refreshing debate.
And Dr. Jane brought up a lot of really just great rebuttal points to it.
So just this back and forth dynamism was just fantastic.
I wish that that kind of controversial nature and debate and healthy debate was present
in a lot more of the conversations.

(09:16):
Only the rest of them were just a lot of people up on really rich people up on stage agreeing
with each other.
So you need a host of conference because that would clearly be way more entertaining.
Like, kind of had American gladiators.
Yeah, exactly.
That's what I want to see.
That's what I'm going to see.
That's what's driving conversation.
There was another one that I thought was really interesting.

(09:38):
This was ARPA H has come out with a call to action to have people come out and join their
program.
They have a lot of funding.
They're looking for program managers to lead on new ways to drive health outcomes, especially
tech enabled health outcomes.
So a lot of opportunities with ARPA H that I got really excited about.

(10:00):
Just the last thing that I would say about it is if you're ever going to go to health,
don't even bother going to the sessions anymore.
This is the one thing I do like about health is that they record all of their sessions.
And in the app post conference, you can go and watch all of them.
So if you're going to go, don't go to the sessions unless you really want to see one

(10:20):
live and you really want to talk to somebody afterward or something like that.
And then of course, there's a live stream of tech active, unlimited health that you
should definitely come.
You want to make sure that your cheering is on the recording for the podcast.
You know, I'll be like, throw the roses on the stage, baby.
Absolutely.
Awesome.
So would you go back next year?

(10:42):
I intend to.
I intend to.
I had the great joy.
I wanted to highlight my time there.
I had the great joy of being a judge for the Digital Health Hub Foundation Awards.
And that was a wonderful experience over the last couple of months as I read through submissions
from like 200 companies and my eyes went blind from staring at a glowing rectangle onto all

(11:04):
hours of the night.
And to actually see the finals there live and see who won, that was just really exciting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I know I'm super impressed.
I quit after like submission 10.
I was like, I guess this is more important things to do.
But you know, I bow to you, Elliot, because it gets impressive that you that you reviewed

(11:27):
all those companies.
Yeah.
I'm glad you're home.
I'm glad you're like back to reality.
Because you know, even unicorns can only extrovert so much, right?
And you need to just restore.
It's true.
What do we have in store for our listeners today?
Oh, so next up we have Techpocalypse Now Redux.

(11:51):
The Redux.
I'm so excited.
I am very excited too.
I think I've got two amazing companies to tell you about that you will have no idea what
to do with.
All right.
I look forward to the challenge.
I look forward to proving you wrong, Elliot.
So for our listeners who maybe didn't tune into episode two, Techpocalypse Now is a fun

(12:14):
little game that Elliot and I like to play where we read one another a product description
generated by Generative AI.
It's a health tech product and one of them is fake and one of them is real.
And so our co-host needs to guess what's the fake product and what's the real product.

(12:35):
Wow, I'm really bad at explaining rules to a game on the air.
A little bit embarrassed.
Anything you'd add to that, Elliot?
No.
I mean, that's exactly it.
If you can figure it out at home, we'll give you a little bit of time before we tell you
which one it is.
But you try and figure it out at home, which one's real, which one's not.
Because we go in with the same generative AI prompts for them, they sound very similar

(12:59):
to each other.
So you really got to keep an ear out and listen for what makes sense, what's actual tech
and what's not.
So good luck, listeners.
And what's tech coded in cheese whiz?
So Elliot, do you want to kick us off?
Since I think last time I went first and therefore I won, so it was an unfair advantage.
Why don't you start first this time and then it'll be air quotes, fair when I beat you?

(13:23):
Yes, I would love to do that.
I would love to do that.
All right, are you ready?
Product number one, introducing Smart Stitch, the intelligent companion threading the needle
on wound care.
Smart Stitch reimagines at home wound treatment, empowering you to suture wounds with professional
precision.
It combines cutting edge technology and user friendly design for an exceptional experience.

(13:49):
Begin with an automated wound analysis.
Smart Stitch's camera captures high res wound images.
The app's advanced computer revision assesses size, depth and type for accurate treatment
recommendations.
Smart Stitch offers personalized suture guidance, advising on suture type and technique in real

(14:09):
time for effective wound closure and faster healing.
The guided suturing experience is where Smart Stitch excels.
The handheld device provides step by step visual and audio instructions, minimizing errors
during suturing.
Seamless health record integration simplifies documentation creating a shareable report for
healthcare professionals.

(14:30):
Safety is a priority with user friendly accident preventing design.
Take charge of wound care with Smart Stitch, your ultimate healing partner.
Experience wound care at your fingertips.
Don't just stitch, Smart Stitch.
Okay, does it come with a side of legal insurance?

(14:52):
That sounds ridiculous.
You don't have to tell me, but I think I know the answer.
I think it's meant, I don't think it's actually meant for like home personal use.
I think it's meant for like NICUs.
Like for EMTs and for visiting nurses and things like that.

(15:16):
Okay, they need a new marketer.
Okay, go.
I'll give you the second one.
So chat TPP is not so great at it, but you know.
All right, second one.
This is why we need humans.
Introducing eHealth, the revolutionary sexual health app that's got your Johnson's back.
Have you ever been in a bit of a pickle down there and wondered if it's time to panic or

(15:36):
just another case of a little turbulence in the trouser town?
Well fret not because eHealth is here to help you navigate those choppy waters with a hilarious
twist.
I hate chat TPP sometimes.
Just because I told you to make it funny doesn't mean I want you to say that it's hilarious.
I know, right?
Seriously.
They love that word.
You know, a little gnome that live in chat TPP, love the word for various.

(15:57):
They totally are little gnomes.
All right, picture this.
You, your smart home and our eHealth AI all set to embark on a journey of epic proportions.
They also like that phrase too.
A pick like no other.
That's right.
With just a few simple taps, you can scan your prize possession in three easy steps
and voila, the magic happens.

(16:18):
Instantly, you'll get the low down on your scan results and a sneak peek at any possible
conditions.
But wait, there's more.
In a jiffy, a doctor's review of your case will land in your inbox usually within 24 hours.
If things get too hairy, worry not because they'll connect you with sexual health experts
in their trusted partner clinics.
HeHealth AI is the brainchild of our super smart physicians and AI whiz kids.

(16:43):
Our cutting edge technology has been endorsed by government organizations worldwide.
So if you are 18 and above and your manhood's giving you grief, HeHealth is your wingman.
So why wait? It's time to take control of your crown jewels with HeHealth because every
d*** pick tells a story.
Oh my God.
This is a penis pick app.

(17:04):
It definitely is.
That's what this is.
That's exactly what it is.
That is totally something a dude would come up with.
I'm just going to say, we're going to prioritize a d*** pick app over an invention that would
help cure cancer or help women with menopausal symptoms, which actually cost society money.

(17:25):
I would go ahead and say that d***s cost society a lot of money.
They do, right?
But this isn't helping with preventative.
This isn't helping men be less.
Yeah, HeHealth is definitely the real product because men are just that self-interested.
I don't even remember what the other one was.
It was obviously fake because it's totally risky.

(17:46):
It's not risky.
Come on, smart stitch.
Okay, if I'm wrong, I will.
No, you're not wrong.
You're not wrong.
There you go.
There you go.
There's no freaking way that that would get FDA approval.
Just no way, dude.
But a d*** pick app, no.
That's like fast track, right?
All right.

(18:07):
Wait a minute.
Hold on.
In defense of men.
Yes.
I realized that I've put a spin, this d*** pick spin on it.
However, this app actually is good because think about it.
Think about the stigma of having an STI on your Johnson, right?
And not wanting to get care because you don't want to go to a sexual health clinic.

(18:29):
You don't want to go see somebody in person because of embarrassment for any.
Maybe you've got a weird looking Johnson.
You'll send it to your girlfriend or your boyfriend, but she won't send it to like.
But you know what I mean, so like helping to reduce stigma around it to help people get
treatment before they go and maybe spread an STI.
You know, it certainly is important.

(18:51):
So chauvinism and misogyny aside, it actually is a stand up app.
It deserves to be erected to the top of the app store.
Oh my God.
Yes.
No, I'm actually not that much of a man hater.
Yes.
It doesn't surprise me that that product exists and there's still so much opportunity in other

(19:16):
markets.
So let's continue.
All right.
With your challenge because I got it.
All right.
You ready?
I am.
Okay.
Get ready to witness the wonder of X-ray vision with the butterfly IQ plus the pocket
sized ultrasound device that will make you feel like the inspector gadget of physicians.

(19:37):
This magical contraption combines the power of ultrasound with the convenience of your
smartphone, turning you into the Merlin of medical imaging with a wave of this enchanting
smart wand.
You'll be peering inside bodies, deciphering organs and giggling strange noises that echo
through the hallowed halls of human anatomy.
Who needs to act like a certified medical professional when you have a device that brings

(19:58):
out your inner doctor gesture.
So throw on your lab coat or footy pajamas.
You won't judge and embark on a hilarious medical quest for the butterfly IQ plus.
Remember laughter is the best medicine and this gadget is the ultimate prescription for
fun.
Smartphone sold separately, medical accuracy not included.

(20:20):
That's product one sidebar.
ChatGPT also loves to use the words prescription.
They use it a lot.
Yeah.
You prompt it for this kind of thing.
And they love to say laughter is the best medicine.
They do.
Like I'm telling you when you tell them when the when the prompt when the prompt is like
this needs to be funny.
Like I'm trying to make this funny.
Like they put those kinds of things in there all the time and I have zero time for your

(20:42):
bullsh**** today.
Open AI.
Okay.
Second product.
Second product.
Tired, tired of counting sheep or listening to the soft tom of white noise machines.
Enter the eyedream sleep optimization mask.
The sleep aid of your dreams.
This next gen mask wraps around your eyes creating a cocoon of tranquility equipped with sensors

(21:03):
and vibrating wonders.
It detects the perfect moment to lull you into dreamland.
As you drift off the masks, gentle vibrations synchronize with your brain waves guiding
you into the most restful, restful sleep of your life.
Wake up feeling like a champ ready to conquer the world and maybe even find your lost sock.
It's like having your own personal sleep fairy without that annoying pixie dust.

(21:29):
So I may or may not have special knowledge about one of these products.
I figured.
So I'm going to go ahead and say butterfly IQ is the real product.
Yeah.
So it's one of those.
Shop of health.
Yeah.
Well, it's one of those products I actually reviewed there.
I was they were one of the ones that I reviewed.

(21:50):
I should have known better.
But at health, that kind of product, right?
There's another like Pulse and Moore is another one.
And there was a there was a few handheld ultrasound and they were doing some really cool things
like like one of the ones that I saw on the show floor.
I can't remember the name off the top of my head and I feel bags.
I can't give them a shout out.

(22:12):
But they, you know, their ultrasound on on top of just being able to take the ultrasound
runs a little computer vision on top of it and does a bunch of measurements as well.
Right.
So it will.
So they did a bladder demonstration.
So they hired this guy and sat in the booth the entire day, took off his shirt and did
a bladder ultrasound study.

(22:34):
Like I don't know how many times he did it, but I stayed it for at least five.
And and and did it.
And you can see on the screen how it's like automatically measuring the size of your bladder,
how full it is, how empty it is.
Like it was really rather rather incredible.
So like this is like this, the whole ultrasound handheld ultrasound market is is starting to
really grow.

(22:55):
I'd love to see that go into other diagnostic areas.
So shout out to Butterfly and Pulsemore and the others.
Yeah.
I think we need to redub this episode than another Netherland.
There are many jokes about the down there region.
Yeah.
Okay.
That that concludes Tech Focalips now and the world didn't end and we're both really,

(23:19):
really smart and chat TPD needs to get more feedback from us.
I think those are the takeaways.
I think so.
So folks, stick around.
We're going to go to a quick commercial break and afterward we'll be back with our interview
with Justin Ayers from Equality MD.

(23:42):
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Welcome back to Tech It To The Limit folks.

(26:00):
Buckle up for an unforgettable voyage with our guest, Justin Ayers, the versatile health
tech entrepreneur with a story as diverse as the stars in the Milky Way.
Once a health care trial lawyer and history teacher, Justin has transformed into a health
care technology voyager, leading the next generation of LGBTQIA plus entrepreneurs with

(26:22):
the curiosity and determination of an intergalactic explorer.
Justin navigates strange new worlds of the health tech startup galaxy.
As the founder and CEO of Equality MD, Justin is reshaping how the LGBTQIA plus community
and other underserved populations perceive and receive care.

(26:42):
His enterprise platform is culturally competent, virtual first and data driven.
It trains providers, matches patients, and delivers patient-centric care to communities
often overlooked by the mainstream.
Justin's passions extend far beyond business and tech.
He's an avid traveler, pet lover, dreamer, and scrabble virtuoso.

(27:05):
Connect with him on LinkedIn to learn about his ear teaching on the distant star of Britain,
how he once starred in a Liberace movie, or his aptitude for conjuring life lessons from
Star Trek.
Tune into this journey of discovery with Justin Ayers, starring as the Starfleet captain of
Equity Trek on the new original series that explores the lower decks of health equity.

(27:27):
Welcome Justin.
May I call you Justin?
Yeah, that's quite the intro.
Thank you.
That means we nailed it.
Elliot, you want to pick it up with the first question?
Oh yeah, for sure.
Justin, that was originally written just for you.
You don't say.
I may or may not be a Star Trek fan.
Maybe.

(27:47):
Whoa.
Okay.
I'm going to take a guess.
What I'm seeing on the screen, is that the Millennium Falcon?
No.
Ouch.
Oh!
I know something about Star Trek.
Hello.
Oh wait, you're stabbing yourself in the heart, Elliot.
Yeah, that's what that felt like.
Oh, it's the Enterprise.
Oh, for crying out loud.
It's like another one of those things you're going to have to bleep out.

(28:10):
I got to walk out.
This is just over.
You're done.
It's the wrong kind of mic drop.
That's a record scratch.
Wait, the Millennium Falcon is from Star Wars.
Yes.
Oh my God.
She knows what her mistake was.
That is a card mix in right there.
All right.
So, let's jump in.
Justin, we love to ask our guests here because we're Goobers.

(28:33):
What is your favorite dad joke?
Okay.
So, I recently moved from Richmond, Virginia to Los Angeles to be a part of the Cedarside
Accelerator in a forest in LA.
It's got a wide variety of amazing cultural foods from all over the country and all over
the world.
So, this is a food joke.
What do you call a nosy pepper?

(28:54):
Oh, Elliott knows.
All right.
Give it a guess.
Smarty pants.
Jalapeno business.
No, it's Jalapeno business.
I love that.
Yeah, it is.
You got to get that accent.
Nice job.
Jalapeno business.
I love it.
That's a great joke.
Thank you, Justin.
That is awesome.
My kids are going to love that tomorrow morning.
Yeah, that is a really good joke.
I can't take credit for my VP of product, Jason Donnelly.

(29:16):
He's a great guy.
He's a great guy.
He's a great guy.
He's a great guy.
He's a great guy.
He's a great guy.
He's a great guy.
I'm glad you chose this one.
Thank you for that, Jalapeno.
You're welcome.
You're a great guy.
You're a great guy.
Thank you.
You're a great guy.
You're a great guy.
You're a great guy.
You're a great guy.
You're a great guy.
Thank you.
Let's get down to business.
You're fresh off the heels of your participation in the Cedar Sinai Accelerator program, like

(29:40):
you just mentioned.
What was that experience like?
What lessons have you learned that other health tech entrepreneurs could benefit from?
Do you want it alphabetically or numerically?
Because it's a lot.
I would say the experience has been fundamentally transformative.
and I don't use those words lightly. We started the program and then we had some of their past
classes come in and one person had said there's a line in the sand to be drawn as a health tech

(30:05):
entrepreneur and Cedars-Sinai accelerator before Cedars accelerator and after Cedars accelerator
and that's exactly what it has been. Lessons that I think are very applicable to to health tech
founders in particular because health care is so fricking complicated is you've got to be persistent

(30:26):
and that of course goes for any entrepreneur but health care in particular but at the same time
you got to be patient and you've had to be so comfortable being uncomfortable that you just
keep on pressing on. You never stop asking questions but make sure you're asking the right
questions to the right people at the right time. Understand the budgeting process for a health system

(30:49):
if you're trying to sell to a hospital for a payer if you're trying to sell to an insurance company
or for corporations if you're trying to create some sort of HR benefit program and your product
might be great it might have widgets out the wazoo but that doesn't matter. If you're not
building something that's so hyper focused on patients and you lose sight of the fact that

(31:14):
the patient is why you're doing this you'll be hard pressed to sell whatever gizmo you've created
because nobody will buy it. You have to be patient-centric and I think that that's a massive shift
taking place in the entire health care technology industry and it's the tech element that's allowing
providers of all walks and all strikes to be able to start thinking about how they deliver care

(31:37):
in a very intentional meaningful way. I love that too and I think that that really makes me curious
then thinking about being patient-centric. What inspired you to create a quality MD? How does that
aim to change health care for underserved communities? That's a good question because
no one in their right mind would ever do what I'm doing but I felt an obligation as well

(32:03):
saw an opportunity and I'll tell you why. As you mentioned in the intro which was fabulous
that I'm a former health care trial lawyer I used to defend insurance companies in DC
and because the system is so rigged against the patient I won every case I had. That's not to say
I wasn't a good lawyer but it wasn't my passion and I didn't feel good about the work I was doing

(32:26):
because it was not helping people it was helping rich people get richer and when the great recession
told me to go do something else I've been an entrepreneur for 14 years now but when you're
a counselor at law you're really a counselor at all of life and the one question throughout
traveling across the country for years that I've received as a counselor at life because people

(32:46):
ask me questions whether I want them to or not and that's fine but the one question kept ringing
in my head during the pandemic was where can I find a doctor that makes me feel safe and that is such
a fundamental question of life because health care not only is it one-fifth of our nation's economy
everybody is impacted by health care and from a personal experience six years ago I was at a

(33:08):
dermatologist in DC came out as gay while wearing one of those awful hospital gowns with my butt
hanging out and nobody likes where those begin with. I already felt vulnerable and when I came out
he said that he wouldn't conduct the exam because he didn't feel comfortable touching my body
and I thought what your dermatologist is supposed to do so he left the room making me feel just

(33:29):
awkward and ashamed and alone. I got dressed and went to the nurse to check me in and she said why
don't you go talk to your own people about where you can find a doctor and I thought oh okay and this
is in downtown DC our nation's capital it's not some rural community it happens all over the place
I had I haven't seen a dermatologist since and I was thinking about it but what if I had melanoma

(33:54):
or something I'm wider than paper as it is so I'm trying to get in and be proactive but that
experience personally coupled with what I've been hearing from people all over the country it just
made me realize that the networks that I created by going out and being very active as an LGBTQ
leader and marketing and media in particular if I could activate that network I'm not going to change

(34:17):
health care but I can put a good size dent in it and help a largely underserved and under measured
patient population get the care they deserve through agency dignity and respect and that's
really why we created the quality of me. Wow thank you for sharing that story with us Justin that

(34:38):
is just gut wrenchingly awful and just just hearing that one example I mean that influenced the entire
trajectory of your health care experience and you know it's impacting outcomes for you right
you don't know for sure but that you know that's that's um prevention is the best medicine right
and absolutely um and I'm sorry that that traumatic experience influenced your your perception of

(35:03):
safety in you know in health care so that sucks. When you think about it the patient provider
relationship is one of the most intimate you can have outside of your loved ones or your partner
spouse and if not taken seriously it can go very wrong very quickly and it's uh sometimes it's
it's out of malice but most of the time it's not it's providers just don't take the time to care

(35:27):
the way they should. Your example was really vivid and in like kind of like if you think about it
it as a spectrum if we think about like discrimination and you know um and bias in the spectrum that
was a pretty overt act of you know discrimination. Oh absolutely right and then but as you're as
you're alluding to sometimes it's just lack of education on the part of the care provider that

(35:52):
they don't realize they're not providing culturally competent care to the LGBTQIA plus community
and so I want to kind of tie that back into quality MD maybe you can talk a little bit about
some of that training that you offer to your team. I know we're deviating a little bit here
I'll get going but before we go off on there just a couple quick stats to share with it.

(36:15):
That situation that I talked about with the dermatologist in DC that I'm not alone. Yeah
one one in four of our community experience discrimination in a clinical setting causing
one in five to avoid care from any provider their entire life. One in six have been denied care
as I was and one in eight live in states where medical providers can legally deny care based

(36:41):
on religious beliefs and that's just the situation we're in. So to your point on education it all
starts with education. Currently there are some great organizations out there trying to do some
work in this area. Some are just education focused and they do cultural competency trainings for
certain underserved communities. The LGBTQ community is unique insofar as that it's kind

(37:05):
of like an umbrella for every other underserved community. We're everywhere and that makes it
even more challenging to address the needs that we're facing because of the intersectionality
of identities. Hispanic and gay, black and lesbian those all come into play when you're
thinking about your health and your wellness and your state of mind and having cultural

(37:30):
competency education that's evidence-based scientifically backed by research rather than
what some entities out there do both for-profit and non-profit they have their provider network
check a box quite literally are you gay friendly. What does gay friendly even mean? Do I do I go
to a pride parade in June? Do I have a rainbow flag somewhere in my closet? No it means they accept

(37:54):
your insurance. Yeah, right and others say oh I've served in LGBTQ patients well good for you
where does that matter? What was their experience like have you have you asked them? Right or they
are themselves LGBTQ but then I know a lot of bad gay doctors who just have terrible bedside manner

(38:16):
and so you can't take what your experience is an LGBTQ clinician and then impart that on the
world because our community is far from monolithic and that's what makes it beautiful and to be able
to understand those intricacies and always be learning and understanding about the patient
sitting across from you either virtually or in person is absolutely critical to the proper delivery

(38:39):
of care. I think that's speaking as a member of the LGBTQIA Big Plus community can I just say
queer community I love all the letters but if just for a shorthand for this purpose of today's
discussion we know how you like to use TLA's again. I do love my TLA's. I do I love my TLA's.
You know as a member of the queer community I can certainly have experienced some of the

(39:05):
things that you've been describing but I can attest to the fact that we are not monolithic
you know it you and I may think very much alike but I have friends of mine in the queer community
that completely disagree with me on a whole host of different things because of the intersectionality
that you described. I mean that's I think your your point about intersectionality hits the mark

(39:27):
right on the head. Yeah it's something you you can't talk about in a single way or form,
shape or manner and it's it's a lot of entities particularly in the healthcare sector like to
do that because it's simpler. Yes it's simpler but people are not simple. We're very complex

(39:48):
individuals no matter who we are. We might be a straight military veteran with with a husband
and three kids but there's still things going on under the surface whether it's mental health or
some sort of genetic disease that was passed on from their parents that they had nothing to do with
or experience that they've had in their lives that it's shaped who they are today and if we

(40:10):
can't get to that from a healthcare care standpoint delivery of that care we're never going to actually
treat the patient before you as a provider. So I want to just tie this a little bit more to
take it to the limit and because these are really great points that you're making here but this is

(40:31):
a future tech focused show so I want to understand how you're using technology to bridge the gap
between the queer community and culturally competent healthcare providers. How is technology
alleviating those challenges that we've been discussing? Certainly well for our platform that

(40:51):
we're building now just use that as an example because I know it well once we have trained our
provider network to be LGBT culturally competent using evidence-based standards and scientific
methods we then have them on our system. Patients fill out a intake form that includes all kinds

(41:12):
of questions about their sexual orientation gender identity called SOGI data social determinants of
health as well as questions that speak to the heart of that intersectionality of their unique
identities so they have a personalized dashboard that reflects who they are at that time knowing
they can always go in and change that but matching patients with providers is an art into science

(41:37):
and a lot of times patients are matched just because they have the they live in a state where
a provider has a license now you have to do that with health of course but there's more to it than
that. We've developed a machine learning matching algorithm that allows the matching to function

(41:57):
much like a dating app but with much more intentionality behind the unique needs of the
individual so the patient can fill out their profile for themselves but then they do the same
thing for the provider their ideal provider ideal love provider and we match based on what they
say what their preferences are what their individual profile says and that that takes a lot of work and

(42:21):
the machine learning gets better and better each time there's more inputs and that's helping speed
up the time that it takes for a patient to find a provider that they know has gone through evidence
based cultural counts of training they know they can come out without fear of discrimination or any
kind of repercussions and then they can have that safe conversation beyond that we're the most

(42:46):
under measured patient population in the country somewhere between 20 and 30 million people depending
on who you ask what studies you use that's a massive community and it's also the most under
measured patient population because not everyone in that intimate clinical setting is willing to
raise their hand and say please count me as part of this community because they fear discrimination

(43:06):
like I said one or five avoid care so by having a system that integrates with electronic health care
record systems like Epic, CERN or for all scripts and does so in a way that matches the providers
with the patients using machine learning that's always getting better and better and at the same
time training providers to be better and better but that's why I say all of this is an art and

(43:28):
science you can't take technology out of the equation and you also can't take the human element
of education into it but we are allowing the technology element to be a part of the education
as well and we've distilled some continuing medical education credit granting evidence-based
cultural competency training into digestible components so the providers and their busy schedules

(43:51):
who are already over trained in terms of their hours although I would say that under trained in
terms of cultural competency have the ability to actually learn something meaningful and then use
technology in a way that it works with systems they're already using and that's the biggest
challenge right now is epic integration but also that can be scaled to include non-epic systems.

(44:15):
That was fabulous a couple things that came to kind of float it at the top of my head as you were
talking really like we're taking patient-centered care to the next level or you are right I mean
provider organizations frequently say we offer patient-centered care you know but really what
that means is like okay the patient is a monolith right what are their clinical needs not necessarily

(44:39):
their personal needs and their personal needs are going to influence what data they share about
their clinical history right and so you're kind of you're tapping into that that need of the healthcare
consumer to have a hyper personalized experience and not just your average consumer like a highly
underserved population right that's kind of takeaway number one takeaway number two I feel like

(45:06):
I forgot it. I got my takeaway from it because here's what I'm imagining I'm imagining the
patient experience with EqualityMD where I'm it's I don't know whether which one's right whether it's
a TikTok experience or a what's the what's the app that the straights use to hook up tinder tinder

(45:30):
thank you not speaking from experience sure um I'm like is it a TikTok experience or is it a tinder
experience you know where I'm either swiping left or swiping right based off of a profile or I'm
just swiping through and depending upon the amount of time I'm spending on this provider it knows that

(45:51):
that's the that's the kind of experience I want and and starts to feed me more of that algorithm
so speaking of that and imagine and throw in throw to the the tinder example the Amazon experience
so you're holding uh anytime you have you know one of these things in your vicinity it's listening
to you they tell you it's not what it is so oh I was going to say people that had sex with Paul

(46:15):
also had sex with I thought it was one of those no get your mind out of the gutter so the did you
say something like Murphy bed 20 times suddenly on on Facebook or Amazon all you see are Murphy
beds but it's that same idea but a little more intentional when it comes to the type of care

(46:35):
you want so if you're talking or even looking up some mental health stuff certainly there's
there are ways for the algorithm to help you find mental health providers and destigmatize the idea
of even looking for a mental health provider the seven of our community said that's their primary
health care concern and so we're making sure that mental health and primary care that the two

(46:58):
areas of care we focus on initially before we start branching out into other specialties
uh you talked about under measurement right for uh for the queer population I think it's it's too
prompt right when we think about the root cause I'm interested in your and your thoughts on this
Justin so one is like that lack of safety in the clinical experience the as you alluded to like

(47:21):
the lack of willingness to raise your hand in class and be like yeah I want to be counted here
right but it's also like they're massively underinsured right they don't there aren't equal rights
when it comes to having access to care because you know depending on which state you live in you're
you know if you're married you may not have health insurance just because your spouse does

(47:42):
so that is a huge problem that is yet to be addressed in this air quotes modern country that
we live in um as Elliot and I like to call it it's a medically underserved country or a muck
it is it's it's not the similar from saying we're the most overfed malnourished country
in the world and I think the same as for healthcare we have all of this given to us

(48:04):
but we're still malnourished physically mentally spiritually and it's really sad and the idea of
this push towards instead of a paper service it's now value-based care you hear that all the time
I hear at tech conferences I have healthcare conferences medical conferences and I'm I'm
just now starting to see entities in the healthcare space start to do something about it it's going

(48:27):
to take a long time to change and what I really appreciate about cedars is they they were very
honest about how hard it's going to be to change the system because it's so embedded to be let's
get the most out of this person while they're in the hospital bed we have a captive audience
they're saying that it's about 99 of healthcare in general it's not values-based care and it's

(48:52):
the pendulum swinging but it's it's not a big swing and it's not going to happen overnight
but that pendulum has been swinging for a decade yeah tell me about it it's going to take some
time and it's going to take innovative entrepreneurs to come up with ideas and rock the boat a bit
and force that pendulum past some of the hurdles that exist whether it's technologically
philosophically or just operationally and that's what we hope to do is disrupt it in such a way

(49:16):
so that people change how they think about behavior about receiving care and we're very much serving
as a trust bridge that's how cedar cyanide sees us for expanding care so we can that's your point
about the data sarah by not having the patient journey data we don't i'm talking about oh you
john smith we know everything about you it's all anonymized and aggregated without that information

(49:41):
health systems and insurance companies can't make data-driven healthcare decisions that can help you
and any kind of treatment regimen you might be on and that includes pharmaceutical manufacturing
distribution and marketing but then from a corporation side it prevents them from understanding
their potential employee base as well as their potential customer base so having an inclusive

(50:01):
healthcare plan like a quality md when we go to the enterprise level for non-healthcare entities
like bank of america or a shelf energy we'll be able to help them attract and retain the best
and brightest talent who want to see their values instilled in their dna have dei baked into their
d which is a hard thing to do but it's the right thing to do because dei is the foundation of

(50:25):
all innovation and that way they will not only reduce churn and increase their diverse talent
base but they'll stay culturally relevant and competitive whereas in the healthcare side of
things it's increasing patient engagement because of that trust which will improve patient outcomes
because of one in five of our community aren't seeing a doctor ever because of fear of discrimination

(50:49):
a big problem so we need to change perceptions the best way to do that is starting at the source
with insurance companies and health systems and providers and starting with education like anything
else in life so i'm curious you're so mission driven and i love that about you because you have
such a singular focus in your vision of what the healthcare industry needs to transform into

(51:15):
you how do you balance your mission your your mission driven activities and strategy how do
you balance that with your need for profitability in the health tech startup space i mean your
you are i shouldn't say mission driven in that case you are profit driven by your backers so how

(51:37):
do you balance those two things as an entrepreneur if it's intentional and taken seriously it's actually
quite easy i don't think anyone can not do well if they're doing good and if you put doing good
first doing well will come swiftly behind it if dei is baked into your startup's cultural dna if

(52:00):
you're solving real needs for underserved communities you're organically strike the right balance and
have profits and purpose not profits for a purpose they are not mutually exclusive if you think about
it and approach it and solve the problem from the right mindset on day one yeah to put a really cold
spin on it you're tapping in a huge un untapped opportunity in the market there's a lot of demand

(52:25):
to be captured in those underserved populations right if you look at it from a purely business
standpoint so that's that's amazing just on that when we we did an mvp about a year or so ago and
tested it with real patients and providers who were we're paying to use our platform we've evolved
our business model from their feedback which was invaluable but patients loved it because they got

(52:49):
to have primarily mental health sessions on a platform where they knew the provider had gone
to cultural confidence training almost all the patients we had had never seen a provider before
in their lives and they were having telehealth sessions in their cars in their bedrooms in their
dorm rooms if they were college age but we don't serve anyone under 18 but it was amazing to get

(53:11):
young people and and others to start feeling comfortable and safe and and they found their
own safe physical spaces to have these complications on the flip side on the provider side they were
thrilled because we basically were unlocking the doors to an invisible patient population
and they wanted to engage but they didn't know how to let alone authentically engage them let alone

(53:33):
do so in a way that changed their behavior to go from never seeing any provider to go seeing a
provider to go seeing them so we were that's awesome marketing agency that drove traffic to them so
yeah yeah i mean to talk about another market opportunity right you have these providers that
want to do better they want to learn and they they want a reputable source to go to for training

(53:58):
right that's amazing we're gonna pivot here and ask a different question so many individuals in the
queer community have experienced discrimination and bias in their health care experience hence
equality md what has been your experience as a queer startup with respect to bias and discrimination
has adventure capital community embraced you or have you experienced bias from those partners

(54:24):
it's it's harder than i thought it was going to be i know i come with with certain privileges i'm
a white guy it's just white guy but even though i'm if my skin is so white i practically translucent
i get my foot in the door so to say but then when i open my mouth and the letters lgbtq come out
suddenly the room pool of old white guys you can see their chairs turn they pull up the phones

(54:47):
and uh there's a lot of discrimination and bc is still very much an old boys club kind of like
practice of law i said it was i went back in the closet at age 28 when i worked for a big law firm
defending insurance companies because i didn't feel safe coming out i thought i might lose my
job or get passed over for promotion thank god the great recession gave me the pink slip and i

(55:09):
could go out and be myself again i i have been turned down but i'll never forget this one time
this guy i'd known for three years we went to a regional technology accelerator richard called
white house labs and there's on a few floors up in the same building another bc group i won't name it
they they have had their uh meetings and so i was invited to pitch because they knew me they knew

(55:31):
we'd gone through the accelerator and afterwards they declined quite fervently and they one of them
this guy said why don't you go talk to your own people without raising the kind of money and then
i said you are my people we've known each other for years we're in the same entrepreneurial ecosystem
you're my people he thought i was accusing him of being gay he turned bright red and he said no no

(55:55):
no your people not my people and i said would you say that to a woman would you say that to an
african-american gentleman and he started turning redder and redder and redder and he walked away
but that's why there's so many great funds like dangles and chasing rainbows that are out there
that help fund underserved underfunded underrepresented founders and they're wonderful

(56:17):
ones for african-american community hispanic community asian-pacific of islander americans
because we all we all go through a lot of stuff and it's it's it's hard to begin with 99 percent
of startups fail but when you're put behind the a fall because of who you are and you're doing a
startup it's like two strikes against you and it's up to you whether you're going to hit the ball out

(56:39):
of the park or strike out and well congratulations on on breaking through that over my career i've
done the same thing i i described it as dressing in drag where i put on this costume and this face
in the corporate world and i i love living my best life now that i'm a small business owner

(57:02):
you know where i don't i don't have to worry about a podcast co-host and a podcast obviously
absolutely i know that doors have been closed to me in the past and and i hold very many of the
same privileges you do i am quite white but you might be wider than i am i moved to california
i have a little sun kiss i think you're a little wider now okay okay just i think you need to

(57:26):
write a book of aphorisms i mean we have so many like just perfectly stated quotes again like you're
you know you're doing this whole like little pulling light lessons out of the ether out of the galaxy
watching a lot of star trek everything i know about life i learned from watching star trek
apparently i haven't learned a whole lot yet no what you all are talking about from your lived

(57:49):
experience reminds me of dr. doug simonetto i heard him speak he's a hepatology physician at
male clinic i heard him speak at the rise for equity conference this past august in minneapolis
and he shared his personal story of self-censorship even at male clinic and i thought it was just so
moving some of the well not only his personal story but the statistics he shared i don't remember

(58:15):
the numbers off the top of my head but i do remember generally speaking that members of the
queer community aspire to leadership positions at the same rate as you know straight individuals do
but they're way underrepresented in leadership and it's not just because of top down bias it's
from self-censorship it's from not feeling safe in the workplace or feeling like as you mentioned

(58:38):
justina maybe people are going to question me i might not be able to be promoted if i come out
those types of things will i be seen as the same capable leader as my straight colleagues if i come
out as gay and that's on us damn it like i'm so freaking sick of my own kind and like past versions

(58:59):
of myself you know and so i wish honestly they were an equality md for the rest of us
because we could all use a little bit more education it's once you stop caring what others
think you realize they really weren't thinking about you much at all and i think that if we
get past our own biases and realize that all the world's problems can be boiled down into two words

(59:21):
personal insecurities we'll never actually be able to overcome them but we can manage them
and in so doing we can manage the expectations of others because we understand who we are
and without that self-understanding it's hard to do anything you were like the Marcus Aurelius
of health tech like seriously dude that is some deep i love it ah okay thank you yeah i i believe

(59:53):
everything i say it's it's important to be able to to know yourself and i know the rose of that
know thyself that they know it's healthy true but uh it i do like to drop in the classics i like
to do okay i'm gonna say what word of it is sarah he's throwing hamlet at you yeah hashtag i'm smart
but to your point about leadership i went through harvard business school program the first of its

(01:00:18):
kind in 2021 called accelerating board diversity and it was about lack of diversity on corporate
boards in america and this is true for women for people of color and there are 50 candidates
selected and i was one of two lgbq people selected it was quite the honor what we learned is the most
effective way for any corporation to achieve their dei objectives supply diversity objectives

(01:00:41):
and remain relevant in hiring a diverse talent workforce is by instituting an inclusive health
care benefit plan for their entire employee base so that shows the world that you're not just there
for the gay community in the month of pride but every single day of the year and that is a
signal to potential hires that they can see themselves in you because they had created

(01:01:05):
the right environment uh the same goes for customers they can see themselves aligning
and voting with their wallets with your brand because your brand aligned with their value
and as soon as we can do more of that by sharing our values and a lot of it is on us by being our
authentic selves in public we can start demanding better treatment higher expectations for for quality

(01:01:29):
of care when it comes to health care and just understand how we can navigate all the challenges
of the world and become so comfortable being comfortable that it doesn't matter anymore
yeah yeah i love that you brought up equity in the boardroom and dei and the diversity in the
boardroom right and includes and having an inclusive health plan and and and driving it from a top-down

(01:01:49):
approach um in that way and and making it ubiquitous because people often put equity in the corner
like baby yeah but nobody puts equity in the corner right it lives everywhere right it's
everyone's responsibility because patrick swazy said so that's right i was just gonna say that yeah
it's everybody's responsibility to lead with inclusion and equity in mind how do we go

(01:02:16):
about doing this what is something that every listener to take it to the limit can do in their
personal or professional lives to improve equity for all in health care i think a lot of it goes
back to star trek it's fundamentally founded on curiosity looking up at the stars and asking water

(01:02:37):
and if you do that you'll be able to dream big and imagine how we as individuals and collectively
as a society can change the world and if we don't have that we won't look into ourselves in a way
that we can then reflect out into the world and if we're not doing that to ourselves how can we

(01:02:58):
expect others to do that and take that their own personal journey of the introspective exploration
so before we go to the stars we have to first go within and once we do we'll be ready for warp
speed these two of you did not practice that in a mirror because no i didn't i didn't thank you for
helping us rebrand warp speed because that it needed to rebrand all i gotta say all right we're

(01:03:25):
gonna we're gonna close this equity trek episode with a fun question for you justin who is the
greatest star fleet captain i have this conversation often i i've got to stay on with the part he's
the embodiment of all the other captains he executes everything he does with with intentionality

(01:03:47):
style grace and dignity all while sipping a cup of rural gray even if he's just gone to battle
with the romulans and destroy the ship he's calm cool and collected and that's really what every
leader should be so it's it's aspirational for me as a leader his his behavior his deportment
and i think that others can find that too because if one comes down to understanding your own

(01:04:11):
personal insecurities that also means that you can control your emotions not to the extent that spot
does it bulk it it doesn't admit he has emotions but keep them in check so that you can exhibit
and demonstrate them in a manner that suits who you want to be to others and to yourself and i think
that is why i like john mccarv because he is the pure embodiment of what a star fleet captain

(01:04:37):
should be the bold decisive civilized curious and present for his crew always putting his crew first
and he makes it so you so so but wait but wait wait wait yes yes he does make it so i i think you
know i think those are all really great points the only thing you disagree though aren't you i am

(01:04:57):
going to disagree i'm going to disagree and i'm going to say it's actually kathryn jane way the
reason is because unlike that picard she actually defeated the board but the card killed the board
queen in first contact and then at the end of the card destiny to her once and for all okay oh

(01:05:22):
once and for all then what was she doing back in voyager can i just take out my long cane and pull
both of you off the stage because you are losing me i think sarah that's probably a good idea yeah
it's been so fun having you on tech into the limit justin i look forward to following you on
linkedin and getting to know you better thank you for the work you are doing in this space it is so

(01:05:45):
important and we know you must be exhausted but we are all cheering you on and we're here to help
thank you very much i hope to see you at health in vegas because i'll be giving a pitch to 10
thousand of my closest friends with the cedar sign nine accelerator i'll be there and and
preaching on about the the power of inclusivity in health care and i'll be in the front row

(01:06:11):
cheering you on man are you gonna throw your panties at me or anything like that should i should i be
warned i mean i think you just i think you just gave elliot an invitation yeah that's a challenge
he would exactly it's a challenge but i look forward to seeing you there and thank you for
this opportunity it's always fun to talk about these things because i do that this work because

(01:06:33):
it's important it needs to be done and i really enjoy doing it even though i am as you say exhausted
well i for one have been have been inspired not only by the content of today's pod but also to go
and learn more about star trek because i am a nerd at heart i just have never ventured on that voyage

(01:06:56):
all right yeah there's so much but there's a lot of nuggets and pearls of wisdom in there that
really relate to life and rodin berry got it right because even on the first bridge of the enterprise
there was a white guy captain kerr there was a japanese tulu after we we just bombed them twice
a russian checkoff in the middle of the cold war an alien spot and then an african-american woman

(01:07:22):
during the middle of the civil rights movement it's just amazing he saw diversity and said i'm
at it they wouldn't let him put a black man on the screen so he said screw that i'm putting black
woman on the screen what are they gonna do now i love it i love it it's so good jesson thank you so
much and i look forward to seeing you at health see you there thank you for this time it's been fun

(01:07:44):
thank you jesson
and we're out forgot to say that we love nuggets i was gonna say that but i'm just really really
are you tired of the same old evidence-based medical practice sick of flipping through textbooks
and scrolling through endless decision support databases just to diagnose your patient well

(01:08:07):
we've got the solution for you introducing diagnosis roulette it's the hilarious unpredictable
twist your medical practice has been aching for say goodbye to tedious hours of research and
hello to the thrill of medical roulette picture this you're in your office staring at a patient's
chart scratching your head and wondering what in the reno is this that's when you reach for the

(01:08:27):
diagnosis roulette wheel spin it and let fate decide your patient's condition and subsequent
treatment options it adds an element of suspense and surprise to the otherwise predictable world of
evidence-based medicine who needs textbooks when you have lady luck on your side and don't worry
we've got a wheel full of exciting conditions ready to diagnose will it be laugh phobia a condition

(01:08:48):
where the affected individual uncontrollably bursts into fits of laughter whenever they hear a
serious or somber conversation it can make attending funerals or board meetings quite challenging
or will it be a case of chronic panitis suffers of chronic panitis are compelled to respond to
every statement or question with a pun or wordplay even in the most inappropriate situations

(01:09:08):
which can lead to awkward social interactions and groans from those around them or would it be a rare
and exotic case of riddle me this speech disorder individuals with riddle me this speech disorder
spontaneously speak in riddles making their conversations puzzling and cryptic they might
find it impossible to give straightforward answers and often respond with mysterious and perplexing

(01:09:29):
statements the possibilities are endless well wait there's more the diagnosis roulette wheel is
equipped with a sound effects board to accompany your eureka moments or your uh-oh better spin again
situations it's like a game show and a medical practice rolled into one so why not give your
patients a prescription for laughter while you figure out their actual prescription so doc are

(01:09:52):
you ready to inject some humor and chance into your evidence base spin that diagnosis roulette
wheel today and see where fortune takes you and your patients visit come on red27.com to order
yours now that's come on red27.com remember when it comes to medicine it's always a gamble
and now at least you and your patients can laugh about it diagnosis roulette wheel because sometimes

(01:10:16):
laughter truly is the best medicine
welcome back folks to techie to the limit aka tiddle pod want to thank justin airs for his

(01:10:38):
patience with me as i'm just and i'm new as a truckie to that whole space and he was very
understanding and kind i was i'm sorry i know called that the millennial falcon
hey millennial millennium falcon millennial falcon
the millennial falcon generation it made the kessel run in 12 participation trophies

(01:11:04):
hey hey elliot you easel okay like i have this confidence thing about how i know nothing about
star trek and i'm willing to learn and i'm willing to grow okay all right let's move on shall we the
conversation with justin honestly you just i feel like every guest that we have on i learned from
and i'm so impressed by and that's one of my biggest loves of this of this pod that we do

(01:11:29):
together elliot is is meeting these amazing individuals they're transforming the industry
through technology and and justin is absolutely one of them so why don't you kick us off with
what are your top top takeaways from our conversation with him you mean you mean oh my god what's
the takeaway i just used a word that i don't even know what it means what i want you to share is

(01:11:53):
some of your chicken nuggets with that's right the audience i will i will or vegan nuggets if
you're a vegan you know that's true that's yeah absolutely stop being so exclusive so i had a
couple you're you're absolutely right he has a great way of turning a phrase i think that's the
attorney in him and he does it so casually right they're all kind of like off the cuff you know

(01:12:15):
billion phrases but anyway i loved the conversation that we had around intersectionality and the
polylytic nature of the queer community and the way that he described the queer community as an
umbrella of intersectionality especially as it as it relates to underserved communities in healthcare
right yes there are underserved communities of in the african-american population in the asian

(01:12:41):
and pacific islander population in the the native population um you know but all of those populations
also have queerness within them that makes it sometimes doubly hard for many of the the reason
that we talked about so understand the way he describes understanding those intricacies learning

(01:13:02):
and understanding about the patients that are actually across from you is being critical to
delivering proper care so i thought that was really meaningful yeah the way he said our community is
far from monolithic and that's what makes it beautiful yes so i mean yes my next nugget was
that you know even in the face of blatant bigotry even in the vc world which we just i just saw a

(01:13:29):
bunch of at health right as he's fundraising he he he says that he doesn't think anyone cannot do well
if they're doing good in in in response to how you be both mission driven and profit driven
right and whether or not they are mutually exclusive and i just thought that was a really great

(01:13:51):
thought i loved the way he phrased his called action for personal reflection and introspection
you know it's so it's so tricky you know before we go to the stars we first have to go within
and once we do we'll be ready for warp speed like it's it's it's poetry you know and and it's true

(01:14:17):
right we see where we want to go but it's it starts with me yeah so in the last thing
a band girl over him i really and he's worth band girling over a little bit a little bit listen
i went to a hypnotist show with him at health on the last night there and i have learned things about

(01:14:41):
about him that you know um are not linkedin let's just say that's exactly
oh i think the dark web well you know you say that i fangirl over him but he is 100
percent wrong is my last nugget by the way he's 100 wrong about pacard kathryn jane way captain

(01:15:08):
kathryn jane way would kick pacard's ass any day of the week so he's wrong about that i must say
that i do love that you chose a woman even though i know i love you about star trek ops this is
apparent by my like totally blatantly erroneous comment at the beginning of the interview which
i'm still feeling shame for and i know you're not going to bleep out all right i love the nuggets man

(01:15:31):
i'll keep mine short and sweet i liked his whole concept equality md their whole business their
value proposition is taking pennant patient centered care to the next level and people love
to throw that term around and it's really when you talk about patient centricity in the old days
you know it's clinical centricity like you know what are the clinical needs of the patient that

(01:15:54):
need to come first and and equality md is thinking about what are the personal needs the deep
identity needs its identity centricity right who are you as a person what matters to you
outside of your health journey that can inform your care and that does have health impacts right
uh love that so much very deep i also love that he just called out queer providers he's like just

(01:16:19):
because you're queer it doesn't mean you're culturally competent at delivering care to our
community right and so we can all learn we can all like you said go within start within what's one
thing you control your own education right that's right your own open-mindedness to learning new
things well we we we talk about being an understanding of people's lived experience right

(01:16:42):
and we're only able to bring our own lived experience to the table so of course we're going to have
people that in the queer community that are bringing their their lived queer experience
like i have my own lived queer experience but it is a queer experience from the perspective of a
cis white man it's an n of one right exactly yeah exactly so i i think you're right on that one

(01:17:09):
yeah my favorite my favorite nugget that i took from one of my classes in business school was
we're all looking at the world through a straw right and so in terms of he talked about how dei is
the foundation of all innovation you got to get as many different types of straws together and put
them all in like rubber band them all into a tube and then you can see the world for what it is right

(01:17:32):
with that team of diverse perspectives so love that two more two more nuggets i've got here to just
fight into i love this concept that you know underserved populations aren't this like sob story
like it's an uncaptured market demand right inequality md is unlocking the door to an invisible
patient population that previously never sought care due to discrimination whether overt or you

(01:17:58):
know sort of subvert um that's not the right word but like covert um thank you covert okay
because there's no trust there's no safety in their experience and equality md is enabling
a connection between this unmet patient need and providers who really are eager to learn and grow in
their culturally competent care skill set and reach this population um so they're like a connective

(01:18:24):
tissue right between this untapped market demand on two sides right i just love this where i love
that excuse me and then i just this doesn't really have to do anything with health tech but i thought
it was i mean for me it really touched me to to my core and made me think deeply about what my my own
unconscious air implicit bias was he said something to the effect of like 99 percent of the world's

(01:18:50):
problems boils down to the fact that we all have our own personal insecurities right and again it
starts with you it starts with your willingness to be open-minded to look inward to educate yourself
and to ask yourself what am i not seeing here right what do i need to learn next in order to be a
better provider or a better partner or a better friend or a better citizen of the world and so

(01:19:14):
i'm super grateful for justin coming on the show and just reminding me of that you know no better
not get seriously vegan or or chicken for sure well ellie i think that's the end of our show today
i want to remind our listeners to follow us on linkedin because x is dead and facebook and insta

(01:19:38):
just really isn't where we hang out so follow us on linkedin leave us a five star review wherever
you listen to your pods and i love this ellie tell a friend if you love the show tell a friend of
me or an enemy if you don't love it you know just send him a box of glitter in the mail just tell
someone so you're great aunt i guarantee you somebody has gifted her spotify and she is dying

(01:20:01):
to learn how to use it so ellie it's that time of the show again where we get to send one another
off with a health tech haiku and today is extra special because they were generated by ai they
were generated from our mutual love and respect for one another and our mutual humility after the

(01:20:25):
game featured on episode four scrubs with sarah bell four yeah i know it's crazy we've only done
four episodes feels like you know we've been doing this for years i just want to read you my health
tech haiku that i wrote for you and uh i won't read the whole post but those of you that want like
the sob story about how much i love my co-host and how deserving he is of my love you can follow me

(01:20:49):
on linkedin and catch the whole post okay so here we go nerd twin spirit friend you blend fun
wit brains and heart let's rock this pod world i teared when i heard it your whole post by the way
was just made me feel wonderful and inadequate so no no impossible to drive us welcome on this

(01:21:15):
podcast dude no that's very sweet and likewise if you are so inclined please go to linkedin and
follow me to read all about how awesome my co-host is and also where we found some tlas in the wild
oh yes but here is my my heart-generated prompt of a haiku for you sarah and it has a hidden code

(01:21:43):
in it so please do go to linkedin to take a look at that one but here it is smiles supernovas
and ask tech nerds named sarah how brilliant they are thank you my friend

(01:22:03):
yeah you well vente is all i want to i just want to sit with that
all right enough enough about how awesome we are thanks listeners you are awesome we love you
we appreciate all of your support and encouragement and we would love you even more if you tell your
friends and enemies about us and write a review wherever you get your podcast a good one a good

(01:22:28):
review thanks so much see you next time see you next time see you next time
tech into the limit is produced by sarah harper and elliott wilson in consultation with chat gpt
because they are masochists and also don't have any sponsors yet music was composed by the world

(01:22:55):
famous court ministeral evin odonovan to consume more hilarious and informative content by digital
transformation and health care visit us online at tech it's the limit dot fun and don't forget
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