Marxism 101

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Tech It To The Limit, the humorous and surprisingly informative podcast that

(00:22):
makes digital innovation and healthcare as entertaining as it is relevant.
I'm Sarah Harper.
And I'm Elliot Wilson.
And we're here to pull back the curtain on the world of digital transformation in healthcare.
Don't worry, you don't need a medical degree to join in on the fun.
Just a sense of humor and a penchant for all things health tech.
So buckle up folks.
It's time to...

(00:42):
Tech It To The Limit.
Welcome back to Tech It To The Limit, listeners.
It's our final episode of the season.
Oh my gosh, Sarah.

(01:03):
I can't believe it's our last episode this season.
This is just flown by.
It's been amazing doing this with you.
It has been amazing.
It's been fun.
This is like a bittersweet time because I won't see you again for months.
Months.
Months.
We don't have a planning meeting scheduled already for next week.
Never talk.

(01:24):
It is bittersweet only because it's ending, but that just means that we get to plan for
next season, which I think is the actual sweet part.
Yeah, I love strategy.
Strategy sesh with my BFF.
Yeah, no, it's been so much fun and we have a lot of great content planned for our listeners
on this final episode of season one of Tech It To The Limit, not the least of which is

(01:47):
our amazing guest that we get to speak to today, Mr. Ed Marks of Marks Advisory.
Big Get.
Big Get, yes.
Big Get.
We had a great time talking to Ed about what's ahead in the health tech industry for 2024.
So very future-facing conversation with him also talked a lot about what do you need to

(02:10):
do within your own organization to get there, right?
Right.
So thanks, Ed, for joining us.
And also thanks for the unsolicited fashion advice.
We always appreciate that, especially from a strong dresser such as yourself.
Absolutely.
And speaking of fashion, I am so excited about what we are doing next, Sarah.

(02:31):
Listeners, you are in for a treat because it just so happens.
This is why we did our last episode in December because it just so happens that right now,
going on right now is fashion week for the health tech industry.
So here's what Sarah and I are going to do.
Over the commercial break, we are stepping into our teleportation portals that each of

(02:51):
us has in our basements, and we are going to head on over to start broadcasting live
from Digital Health Fashion Week right in Accident, Maryland, the health tech capital
of the world.
How excited are you about this, Sarah?
I am so excited.
This is the highlight of the season for business travelers in the health tech niche industry.

(03:18):
And I for one am going to look swank when I step out of my teleportation portal.
Yeah, absolutely.
So swank.
So excited.
And just for our listeners, if you're wondering, those portals actually do make a choo-choo-choo
sound when you step in and out of them.
It's really thrilling.
So stick around.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
Do you feel how hard it's going to be for me to find a choo-choo sound?

(03:44):
I'm so sorry.
Hello and welcome back to Tech at the Limit and to the highlight of the Digital Tech season,
the Glam Tech Runway Show.
I'm Elliot.
And I'm Sarah.
Tonight we're going to witness the latest and greatest in health care technology, all
thanks to the visionary minds at Glam Tech.

(04:05):
Glam Tech has been the talk of the tech world, Sarah.
They're not just designers, they're pioneers, reshaping how we think about technology in
health care.
Absolutely, Elliot.
They blend style, functionality and innovation, making each of their designs a statement piece
in the health care industry.
From reimagining everyday health care tools to introducing groundbreaking topics, Glam

(04:28):
Tech has consistently pushed the boundaries of what's possible.
And the best part?
They do it with such flair.
It's not just about utility.
It's about making a statement, creating a buzz, turning heads in the health care community.
You know, Sarah, their designs are a fusion of practicality and fantasy.
Sort of like hote couture meets Silicon Valley.

(04:50):
It's not just about looking good.
It's about redefining the future of patient care.
Yeah.
And let's not forget their commitment to sustainability and accessibility.
Glam Tech designs are as much about ethical innovation as they are about technological
advancement.
That's right, Sarah.
So without further ado, let's turn our attention to the runway, expect to be dazzled, challenged

(05:14):
and inspired.
Get ready, everyone.
The Glam Tech runway show is about to begin.
But here we go, the first entrant from Glam Tech.

(05:35):
It's video telemedicine.
Look at that arrogance, Elliot.
Truly, Sarah.
It's like seeing an old friend take the stage.
Remember when this was the avant-garde of health tech?
Now it's a classic.
Exactly.
It's like that vintage dress that made waves back in the day.
Not the centerpiece anymore, but still a staple that holds its own charm.

(05:56):
It changed the game, Sarah.
Made health care accessible from the comfort of our homes.
But now it's more of a foundational piece than a showstopper.
That's right, Elliot.
It's reliable, familiar, but it doesn't have the same wow factor it used to.
A bit like flared enum of digital health.
Essential, but expected.
And let's not forget, it paved the way for all the innovations we're seeing today.

(06:19):
It's the classic trendsetter that made telehealth what it is now.
True, but it's also facing some stiff competition from newer, flashier technologies.
Let's go to Evolve to stay relevant in this ever-changing fashion show of healthcare tech.
Well it certainly has its place in the history of digital health.
A respectful nod to where we've been and a stepping stone to where we're headed.

(06:42):
Timeless peace indeed.
But I'm excited to see what's next.
Video telemedicine is just the start and we're just waiting in the wings.
Absolutely, Sarah.
Glam Tech is just warming up and we're here for it.
Let's see what's next on this runway of innovation.
And now taking the runway, we have peripheral devices.

(07:06):
Smart stethoscopes, handheld ultrasound devices.
Sarah, aren't these just the epitome of modern healthcare chic?
Absolutely, Elliot.
These are not just accessories, they're essentials.
They're like the high-end watches and statement jewelry of healthcare.
Functional yet fashionable.
Look at the way they blend, form and function.
It's like adding a designer belt to a classic dress.

(07:28):
It elevates the whole outfit.
Or in this case, the whole healthcare experience.
And the innovation.
Each device brings something unique to the table.
It's like having a bespoke piece that's tailor-made for your specific needs.
Wearable art.
You're right, Sarah.
They enhance the capabilities of healthcare providers.
It's like going from a basic look to high fashion with just a few key pieces.

(07:51):
But it's not all about looks, Elliot.
These devices pack a punch in terms of performance.
They're revolutionizing patient diagnostics and care.
True, Sarah.
It's like having a high-tech gadget that not only looks good, but also works wonders.
The perfect blend of style and substance.
Let's not forget how they're transforming patient interactions.
It's one thing to look good, but these devices also make the healthcare experience more engaging

(08:14):
and effective.
Absolutely.
Glamtech really has outdone themselves with this line.
It's like they've read the minds of healthcare providers and delivered exactly what they
needed.
Innovative, stylish and indispensable.
These peripheral devices are a must-hack in any modern healthcare wardrobe.
Well said, Sarah.
As we move forward in this digital age, it's clear that these devices will continue to

(08:37):
play a pivotal role in healthcare fashion.
When here comes the digital front door, gracefully making its way down the runway.
Elliot, isn't this just the quintessential piece in digital healthcare?
It really is, Sarah.
The digital front door is like the little black dress of healthcare technology.

(09:00):
And the first thing patients wear in the digital health journey.
So true, Elliot.
It's the gateway to patient engagement.
A crucial first impression.
Like the perfect opening outfit for a fashion show.
It sets the tone for everything that follows.
And the versatility.
Just like a little black dress, it can be dressed up or down.

(09:20):
The digital front door can be customized to fit any healthcare provider style and needs.
It's the piece that ties the entire healthcare experience together.
Without it, the patient's journey would be incomplete.
Much like a fashion ensemble without that key piece.
And let's appreciate the simplicity of its design.
You know, sometimes the most understated pieces make the strongest statement.

(09:44):
And D.F.D. does just that.
Elliot, it's also about accessibility.
The digital front door opens up healthcare to everyone.
Everywhere.
If they have internet.
Glam Tech has really hit the mark with this design though, Sarah.
It's innovative, yet familiar, cutting edge, yet accessible.
It's the perfect balance.
The timeless classic indeed.

(10:04):
It's exciting to think how this will evolve as we continue to push the boundaries of digital
health.
Absolutely, Sarah.
D.F.D. may be a classic, but I've got a feeling it's just the beginning of what Glam
Tech has in store.
And now, look at this.

(10:25):
The retro revival SMS text messaging.
Is that a flip phone?
It is.
It's like watching a classic trend make a triumphant return.
Isn't it, Sarah?
Absolutely, Elliot.
It's the vintage leather jacket at health time.
Not the flashiest item on the rack, but its comfort and familiarity never go out of style.

(10:47):
So true.
In a world where health tech can be overly complex, SMS is like a timeless piece that
you turn to for its simplicity and reliability.
It's fascinating, Elliot.
In the push for more advanced tech, we sometimes forget the power of simplicity.
SMS is accessible to almost everyone, making it a universal staple in patient communication.

(11:09):
Now that's not underestimated versatility, like a classic white tee.
SMS can be used in so many ways.
Appointment reminders, health tips, patient follow-ups, it's so versatile.
Exactly.
And while it may not have the glitz and glamour of new technologies, its effectiveness is
undeniable.
It's the understated hero of digital health.

(11:30):
Glam Tech has done a great job bringing it back to the runway.
It shows that in health tech fashion, what's old can be new again and just as impactful.
A timeless revival indeed.
It goes to show, Elliot, that sometimes the classics have a staying power that newer
trends can only aspire to.
Right, you are, Sarah.
SMS text messaging may be a nod to the past, but it's clearly still a vital part of digital

(11:53):
health's future.
Oh, here comes the wearable technology, Sarah.
Oh, look at those sleek designs.
Oh, they're like the high fashion items of health care tech.
They really are, Elliot.
Stylish, modern, packed with features.
It's like seeing the latest trend in the high tech accessories take the stage.

(12:16):
And the potential for patient monitoring and data collection is huge.
It's like having a personal health assistant right on your wrist.
Absolutely.
The kind of wearable that...
Oh, wait, did you see that?
It looks like there was a little stumble there on the runway.
Oh my gosh, a bit of a trip.
That's quite symbolic, isn't it?
It's like these wearables are walking confidently.

(12:36):
But when it comes to integrating with EMRs, they falter.
Such a fitting metaphor, Elliot.
It's a reminder that in health tech, functionality is as crucial as style.
Beautiful designs are great, but if it can't integrate smoothly, it's not ready for the
main stage.
True.
It shows there's still work to be done.
But if they can solve these integration challenges, these wearables could be the future of personalized

(12:58):
health care.
From great adjustments, these could go from a runway trip to a triumphant stride in health
tech fashion.
Here comes ambient AI documentation, Elliot.
This technology is really about streamlining and enhancing the health care experience.

(13:19):
Absolutely, Sarah.
It's like having an intelligent assistant in the background quietly making everything
run smoother.
I love how it's designed to be unobtrusive yet incredibly efficient.
It reduces the burden of manual documentation, giving providers and nurses more time with
their patients.
Like the essential components of a well-oiled machine.
On the accuracy, Elliot, it captures patient encounters with such precision, ensuring that

(13:43):
nothing gets missed.
It's the meticulous detail work that often goes unnoticed, but it's vital.
Exactly.
And it's adaptable, too.
It learns and adjusts to different health care environments, which is so crucial for
a dynamic field.
This blend of subtlety and power that makes ambient AI documentation so impressive, it's

(14:04):
not about being the most visible.
It's about being the most effective.
True, Sarah.
It's a testament to how the right technology can transform everyday tasks, making them
more efficient and less cumbersome.
LAMtech has really tapped into something special here.
It's innovative, practical, and it's going to make a huge difference in how health care

(14:25):
is delivered.
I couldn't agree more.
Ambient AI documentation may not be the flashiest tech on the runway, but its impact is undeniable.
And here it is, the moment we've all been waiting for.
Oh my goodness.
Generative AI.
Elliot, this technology is so hot right now.

(14:46):
Oh my, absolutely, Sarah.
It's like the must-have item of the season, the mockingjay, if you will, of the tech world.
Everybody is talking about it.
For good reason, the way ChatGPT understands and responds in natural language is transforming
communication.
It's incredibly versatile, too.

(15:07):
I mean, whether it's patient engagement or administrative assistance, ChatGPT fits right
in.
The speed and accuracy of its responses are impressive.
It's always keeping up with the fast-paced trends in health tech fashion.
Clamtech knocked it out of the park.
ChatGPT isn't just making waves.
It's reshaping the landscape of health tech.

(15:29):
It's innovative, user-friendly, engaging, not just a fleeting trend, but a lasting change
in how we interact with tech.
That's the key, Sarah.
Introducing groundbreaking tech may be on fleek, but making it approachable and integral
to health care, that's where ChatGPT shines.
I can't wait to see how it continues to evolve and integrate into our industry.

(15:52):
It's not just the girl on fire right now.
It's a glimpse into the future of health care tech.
Right, you are, Sarah.
ChatGPT is more than the highlight of today's show.
It's a beacon for where we're headed.
And now we have precision medicine.

(16:15):
This, Sarah, is absolutely the out-couture of health care tech.
Tailored, sophisticated, and incredibly personal.
It's stunning, Elliot.
Precision medicine isn't just about treating illness.
It's about crafting care that's as unique as the individual.
It's a tailor-made outfit by a top designer.

(16:38):
The level of personalization here is unparalleled.
It's about getting the right treatment to the right patient at the right time.
Tres chic.
The attention to detail.
Jessica Couturier selects the perfect fabric and cut.
Precision medicine uses genetic insights and patient data to tailor treatments.
It's a beautiful blend of science and personal care.

(17:02):
But it's not yet for the everyday.
It's exclusive, cutting edge.
It represents the pinnacle of personalized health care.
So true, Elliot.
While it's incredibly promising, the challenge lies in making it accessible to all.
It's the future of health care, but there's work to be done to bring it into the mainstream.
Glam Tech is certainly showcasing a bold new vision of what health care can become.

(17:27):
Precision medicine, when it's readily available, will set new standards in patient care.
Absolutely.
It's exciting to think about the possibilities as this technology evolves.
This health care could redefine our approach to medicine.
Indeed, Sarah.
Precision medicine may be the high fashion of today, but perhaps tomorrow it could be
the ready to wear of health care.

(17:54):
And look what they brought out for the grand finale.
What a fascinating contrast.
On one side, immortality as a service.
A vision of the future.
And on the other, automated prior authorization.
Oh, the practical everyday solution.
What a juxtaposition, Elliot.

(18:15):
The mortality as a service is so avant-garde, it pushes boundaries and challenges our imagination.
It's the concept car of health care technology.
Not quite ready for the mainstream, but it is exciting to think about what could be possible.
Then there's automated prior authorization.
It might not be as glamorous, but it's the essential item everyone needs, like the classic

(18:37):
trench coat of health care.
Reliable and indispensable.
Exactly, Sarah.
I want one in every color.
It streamlines the health care process, making things easier for both patients and providers.
It's not about the spotlight, it's about functionality.
This contrast really shows the range of GlamTex vision.
From the inspirational to the practical, they're covering the full spectrum of health

(19:01):
care innovation.
It's a reminder that in the world of health care technology, we need both the dreams of
tomorrow and the solutions for today.
Oh, wonderful, wonderful show.
That was just tech couture, wasn't it?

(19:23):
The GlamTex runway show truly stitched together the fabric of fashion and technology.
Well, yeah, it was just like watching the latest trends in Paris or Milan, but in accident
Maryland.
Each piece of health technology sashayed down the runway with its own unique flair.
From the little black dress of digital front doors to the mockingjay chat GPT, it was a

(19:45):
collection that would make any tech enthusiast's heart beat faster.
And how about that unexpected twist with the wearables?
It was like a high heel snag on the catwalk, a reminder that even infraction function can't
be overlooked.
So true, Sarah, so true.
Today's show had everything, the classic chic of video telemedicine, the avant-garde

(20:07):
of immortality as a service, the prête de portée of automated prior authorization.
Ugh, fantastic.
Each entrant was a showstopper in its own right, Elliot.
That really dressed to impress and wowed us with their vision of the future of healthcare.
Well as we take a brief intermission, let's let the afterglow of this fashion forward

(20:29):
showcase simmer.
We'll be back with more runway analysis and trendspotting in the world of digital health.
So freshen up your look and stay stylish viewers.
The GlamTex runway show isn't just about walk in the walk, it's about leading the runway
in healthcare innovation.
See you soon for more fashionable insights into the world where technology meets healthcare.

(20:50):
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(22:33):
While Tech It To The Limit Listeners, please welcome Ed Marks, the health tech maestro
whose life story reads like a Hollywood blockbuster.
Son of Holocaust survivors and first-gen immigrant, Ed's career has taken more twists and turns
than a Mad Mouse roller coaster, including scrubbing clinic floors, bandaging as a combat
medic, singing lullabies as an anesthesia tech, and wrangling a herd of shiny objects

(22:56):
as healthcare technology manager.
Ed's industry experience is the virtual Holy Trinity with stints in clinical environments,
business operations, and digital infrastructure.
A trio so harmonious it would make Wolfgang Amadeus jealous.
Throughout his professional odyssey, Ed has made pit stops at legendary healthcare institutions

(23:16):
like Cleveland Clinic, NYC Health & Hospitals, Texas Health Resources, and University Hospitals.
Ed's titular fame includes not one, but three C-suite TLA titles, CEO, CDO, and CIO.
Not satisfied with mere C-suite fame, Ed now advises executives on digital transformation

(23:37):
strategy formulation and execution.
He has penned several best-selling books, including Voices of Innovation and Healthcare
Digital Transformation.
And you can treat your ears to some candy by streaming his Health Tech podcast, DGTL
Voices, wherever you listen to Tech It To The Limit.
And if all that doesn't make your jaw drop to the floor, Ed, or his clone, also manages

(24:00):
to find time to be a partner, parent, and Team USA Triathlete captain.
What have you done lately?
Be sure to connect with Ed on LinkedIn or X.
He or his clone is always up for a virtual strategy consult.
Welcome, Ed.
May I call you, Ed?
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, people have called me.
A lot of different things.

(24:20):
So Ed works pretty well.
But Sarah and Elliot, thank you so much for having me on Tech It To The Limit.
When I saw it come out, I listened right away because I'm an Eagles fan.
So I caught the, you know, the poor Larry to the Eagles.
And I'm waiting for one of you guys to hit the high note, though.
Yeah, I don't know if that's going to happen anytime soon.
Only in the shower.

(24:41):
Well, Ed, thanks so much for joining us.
We love to kick it off here on Tech It To The Limit with our guests giving us their
favorite dad joke.
So what have you got for us?
Yeah, so I always try to remind my kids, I have five kids, how great of a life that
they've had growing up compared to mine.
And so I would always say things like, hey, when I was your age, my dad always asked me,

(25:05):
why can't you be like your brother John?
Why can't you be like your brother John?
You know, when I bring home my report cards or I, you know, struck out in baseball, why
can't you be like your brother John?
My brother John died at birth.
You know, so it was kind of a, I'd say to my dad, why do I keep going in circles?
Why do I keep going in circles?
He said, shut up or else I'll nail your other foot to the floor.
So, you know, it was a rough life growing up.

(25:29):
So don't complain about the life you have.
Oh my goodness.
That's like taking the, I had to walk 10 miles to school to a whole new level.
A whole new level.
Man, you really floored me with that one.
Yeah.
Amazing.
Well, let's pivot and let's talk a little bit about your journey professionally, Ed.
It started with humble beginnings and has ended in becoming a prominent figure in healthcare

(25:52):
digital transformation.
Really inspiring story.
Can you share a pivotal moment that motivated you to pursue a career in healthcare or healthcare
technology?
Yeah, there was really two and I'll try to do them fast.
The first one, I was 16.
I was in a medical clinic as a janitor and it was the coolest job ever because it was
after hours, three hours of work.
So anytime after five, so anytime after five and four, seven a.m.

(26:15):
You know, so I gave a lot of freedom, but I knew, I literally knew that I was called
to healthcare.
I was keeping and mopping floors and I just had this sense, you know, and even though
I was listening to Black Sabbath and ACDC, probably some Van Halen and the mix on my
Sony Walkman, I just knew, right?
And it's hard to explain as a teenager what that means, but that led me on the path of

(26:36):
healthcare.
I didn't know how it turned out, but that next pivotal moment that put me into the sort
of the CIO track, if you will, was at the birth of our oldest daughter.
Super traumatic.
I was working in strategy at the time.
I'd already done some stints in anesthesia now in the business side and I was helping
the IT department with marketing of a great new product that they had where physicians

(26:57):
could dial into the EMR and take care of patients, see all the patient data.
And when my daughter was born, she was born floppy.
Without getting into a lot of details for the sake of brevity, she was going to die.
She had three different life-threatening issues and so they were life-flightered to a children's
hospital, but that was high risk and my wife had tons of trauma and she was hospitalized.

(27:20):
So I was like, oh, what do we do?
And I remembered, oh, wow, there's this system from the IT people.
So we sent an engineer a few hours away to the children's hospital, implemented the software,
the neonatologist from that children's hospital, we're able to consult with our baby's doctors
and lo and behold, she was healed from all three things and she became this normal person
except for her goth stage when she was 15.

(27:41):
She graduated from college at 18.
Yeah, well, to be fair, you listened to Black Sabbath on your walk.
I know, I had a lot of influence on that decision, I'm sure.
But that moment in time when she was healed, that's when I saw the convergence of those
three things.
You know, you mentioned in the opening and that was sort of the operations, the clinical
and the digital all coming together to save lives.
And bam, I knew I had to be in healthcare tech and that's what started it all.

(28:05):
That's amazing.
What an inspiring story.
I mean, that had to be like the fastest software implementation on record.
Yes, seriously.
Yeah, it was just, it was a software to enable the dial up right back in the day.
You had to have a mode of dial up, you had to have special software and then, you know,
get the permissions to dial in.
And yeah, it was amazing.
I still remember the engineer that did it.

(28:27):
Could you imagine doing remote robotic surgery with dial up?
Yeah, right.
Yeah, it was like 2800 bod modem, I think at the time.
Yeah.
Well, I'm so glad that you mentioned the convergence of clinical environments and business operations
and digital infrastructure as being sort of the heart of healthcare transformation.

(28:48):
Can you dive a little bit deeper into how those different elements work together to
improve patient outcomes and maybe even add business value?
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Because a quarter of three is not easily broken.
I do some mountain climbing on the side and if you just had this one thread, it'd be kind
of scary because that one thread could break, but when you have multiple threads and they're

(29:09):
intertwined, it's super, super strong, you can really trust it a lot.
And I think it's the same thing in healthcare with those three disciplines.
So we, because we know it fails otherwise.
So take EMR implementations.
Remember today we got it down pretty well because we bring the three together, but back
in the beginning we didn't bring the three together.
It was just sometimes it was just business, sometimes it was just digital and it didn't

(29:30):
work.
There was lots of failures, but it wasn't until we brought in the clinical component and
we asked, it seems silly to talk about this now, but we didn't do it back then.
We invited the clinician to this was impacting in and now we have a whole science of clinical
informaticist and discipline of that sort and leadership and that's what really made
it successful.

(29:50):
And I think we saw the same thing with virtual care where not all three things were hitting
at the same time.
And so it was really suboptimized.
So during the pandemic, we saw a lot of, a lot of technology thrown at, you know, trying
to take care of patients during the pandemic and it was great.
And I'm not saying anything negative, but I know in the systems that I was helping through
that a lot of times the operational piece was missing.

(30:13):
So they had, okay, we've got Zoom, we've got Teams, we've got, you know, name all the other
actual specific vendors for that.
And they had the clinicians, but they didn't know how to operate it.
So they were still trying to replicate the same old pattern, but virtually.
So then we finally got it together.
I think we do.
And so now it's starting to work a lot better.
So those are a couple of examples of why it's so important that the three are cohesive and

(30:36):
are working together like that strong, you know, strong rope that I talked about.
Yeah.
I think your point about the pandemic and virtual care is so on point.
During the pandemic, we kept talking to our operational leaders, you know, who kept telling
us, well, we need to replicate this in-person workflow.
We have to replicate this in-person workflow.

(30:58):
And, and, well, I mean, right, I agree.
I mean, you kind of have to blow up the workflow and redesign something completely.
But when you are a Sisyphus pushing your, that boulder up the hill, you know, sometimes
you have to make those compromises and say, okay, we'll have to come back to this.
And I think that there are some programs that are still stuck in the workflows that they

(31:20):
replicated instead of redesigned even now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Great point, Ed.
Excellent.
Yeah.
Let's, let's talk about, you already kind of addressed one of the challenges that I think
a lot of our provider organizations health systems are still facing, which is how do we
envision a digital future, right?
What are those workflows look like?
But given your extensive experience on both the provider and the supplier side of the

(31:43):
industry, what are some other common challenges that organizations face when they're implementing
digital transformation initiatives?
And what would you recommend that they do to overcome those challenges?
Well, the good news is, is everything that I'm going to suggest is free.
A lot of times people blame budgets for not advancing.
And so I said, I've got your game and I'm going to think of ideas and solutions that

(32:08):
actually cost nothing.
And so I do think the majority of what I would answer, what I would share with you really
doesn't cost anything financially.
So you don't have to, you know, go to the CFO or anything.
The first thing, you know, since you mentioned, you know, both the vendors and the providers
is working together in harmony.

(32:29):
So don't see each other as a necessary evil, right?
So a lot of times we look at vendors, like when I was on the provider side, we look at
vendors and sort of a negative light and it's like, oh, they just want to get our money
and this and that.
And we don't look at them as partners.
And sometimes on the vendor side, we've done the same thing.
We look at things as, oh, we're going to make some money instead of truly understanding.

(32:49):
And so I think if we could come together as leaders and start to trust each other, build
trusted partnerships, I think it would come a long, long way.
And we would overcome some of the challenges because that in and of itself keeps us from
progressing.
The next thing is humble leaders.
So within an organization, you have leaders who are worried about their territory.

(33:11):
They're worried about their swim lane.
They're worried about who gets credit.
And I'm telling you, that causes so much strife and obstacles within organizations accomplishing
things in these major initiatives.
And again, I can't get too specific on stories because I never want to look negatively upon

(33:31):
anyone or any organization.
I know we're all trying our best.
And so I just speak in generalities, but I know that there's been times where even though
we said, hey, this person here is leading digital transformation, other people still
have their own agenda and will sort of do their own thing.
And so that causes us to suboptimize whatever we're trying to do.

(33:52):
Another one is streamlined governance.
So healthcare for many reasons takes so long to make a decision.
It's really aggravating and keeps sort of this transformation initiatives from having
success because the longer a project goes, the higher likelihood of failure.
There's a hundred points of no in these organizations.

(34:14):
And so what I finally did that really worked again, all this is free is, a lot of times
we have IT governance and there's multiple layers and it takes months and months of meetings
to get to the final decision making there.
Even that layer oftentimes doesn't have the right people there.
So no matter what decisions are made, they're not supported organizationally.
So what I did both in New York City and Cleveland Clinic is I lifted the IT governance to be

(34:37):
the C-suite because ultimately they're the ones that have to support the initiative.
So the CEO in both cases was my co-chair.
So I was the co-chair for the IT governance and the CEO.
And then around the table was everyone on the C-suite.
So the CFO was there.
So something reached that level and was approved.
It was approved and it was going.

(34:57):
And the other thing that really helped it give it gravitas and be successful is that everyone
knew that one year after they went live, they got approved for a project.
One year later, they were coming back to that same group and we're going to take what they
said they were going to do and what they actually did and compare the two.
So this level of accountability transparency is a game changer.
I don't understand why every organization does not embrace this because instead they

(35:21):
push it down and then there's so many subcategories, subcategories that it takes years to get anything
done.
So that's another one.
And the final one is just eliminating this culture of fear.
A lot of organizations, they're risk adverse.
They have all this fear, fear of failure.
So everyone, even though like, I know the three of us were all wired the same, like we

(35:42):
are mavericks in our career.
We took chances.
We take risks.
Then they get to a certain level and then they're like a director of VP and then they're
like, oh, I don't want to risk anything.
And so these people, you always wonder, right?
You look at some VP's and say, how the heck did they get here?
They got there because they were mavericks and risk takers, but then they got scared.
They reached a certain level and like, oh, I don't want to upset the apple cart and I

(36:04):
don't want to mess up my career.
So as a result, things get stifled.
So anyways, those are four reasons and none of them cost money.
I don't know, man.
I think those are great, but I can say from experience, being a maverick and trying to
grow an organization is sometimes not how you stay in an organization.

(36:25):
I'll just, sometimes the organizations are very quick to say goodbye to the folks like
that.
And what struck me as a common thread throughout all of your points throughout all those little
nuggets of wisdom is leadership.
It really does start at the C-suite with the kind of cultural tone that you're setting
for the organization.
And a lot of those sort of common issues that you discussed are inherently cultural, right?

(36:49):
And that starts at the top.
The accountability for the organizational culture and the health and well-being of the
organization ends with the C-suite.
And so I would encourage those that are listening that are in the C-suite to think about, you
know, what's the litmus test for the culture of innovation in your organization?
And do you create an environment where people feel like they can fail fast and still rise

(37:10):
within the organization regardless of how high they get?
Because I think what you're describing when you get to that VP level is like, well, the
stakes are really high now and I don't want to mess this up.
I finally made it.
I'm going to hold on to all my poker chips.
So I'll just, I'll end with that.
I hope that those that are listening that are in leadership are constantly assessing and
recalibrating to maintain that culture of safety and that culture of innovation.

(37:33):
Because the two go hand in hand.
You should hire people.
If you're a leader listening, hire people who've been fired.
Yes, do that.
They are the ones who are willing to take the chances to take the risk and, and make things
happen, make transformation happen.
Of course, if they got fired for something unethical, that's not what I'm talking about.

(37:53):
Maybe ask first why they got fired.
Yeah, right, right, right.
It's a good question, a behavioral interview question, maybe one or two.
I wouldn't be afraid.
So Ed, but a lot of these things that you've described are very top down approaches.
Leaders have to learn how to be humble and manage humble leadership.
Leaders need to cut the red tape and create a streamlined governance.
What advice would you give to those directors, to those managers that do want to be innovative

(38:18):
and are living through the bureaucracy that exists to expose this non-humble leadership,
to expose this red tape?
What advice do you have to them because they do not have authority within their organization
to implement some of this top down kind of things that you're describing?
I always encourage people to do what they can within their sphere of influence.

(38:40):
I was that person, you know, as a manager and director that was always sort of upsetting
the apple cart.
I was always like, hey, Mr. or Mrs. CIO, what about this?
What about that?
Hey, let's try this.
And I was always pushing.
And I know it's a dangerous proposition for some because some leaders won't necessarily
appreciate it.
And if that was the case, I would move on to an organization where I felt that was appreciated.

(39:04):
But I was always sort of that rebel.
And that's why I tell people, because you have to think about life, think about the big picture.
What do you want to accomplish in life?
Do you want to just have a safe job and you make a decent living and you don't really
have an impact?
And if that's the answer, that's fine.
Then go do that.
Hopefully it's not an organization where I am.
But if you want to be a game changer, a world changer, a transformative leader, then you've

(39:28):
got to be true to yourself and just push the envelope wherever you are.
Of course, you want to do it smartly, wisely.
I think we all know you don't want to throw out grenades and stuff like that, but you
want to develop those relationships, build trust.
Do what you do really well.
That was always my foundation.
It's like, OK, if my job was XYZ, I was going to be the best in the organization at XYZ.

(39:48):
And that gave me the respect and the trust to then go ABC.
So I always made sure my house was in order and then I would go after the other things.
And that's what you need to do.
No.
Thanks.
Thanks for asking that, Elliot.
Yeah.
Switching gears a little bit, talking off of leadership, a little bit more focused on
the tech part of Tech of To The Limit.

(40:09):
We're about to be four years out from the pandemic, if you can believe it, which is just mind-boggling
to me.
And we saw the influx of venture capital into technology for healthcare.
We saw the accelerated adoption of digital health technologies, especially in virtual
care, remote patient monitoring, asynchronous care, et cetera.

(40:31):
How do you see the kinds of technology evolving and the role of technology evolving in healthcare
in the next four years, beyond the pandemic?
And what trends should healthcare leaders be watching in this space?
Yeah.
I think there's four or five things to really consider.

(40:51):
I'm sure there's more in that, but just off the top of my head, four or five that might
come to play.
One is speed to value.
So that was a common theme.
I just returned from a couple of conferences.
One was chief marketing officers in healthcare, and the other was Chime Fall Form, so the
CIOs, all getting together.
And it's being about cost neutral and this whole concept of speed to value.

(41:16):
So how do you take cost out of a system?
Everyone's struggling.
I'm on a board of a couple of health systems.
We get keen insights into financials, and everyone's struggling.
There's maybe, I know of maybe five organizations that aren't struggling.
And so what do you need to do?
One is you need to help pull out costs and this whole concept of speed to value.
So there's different things you can do.
And I call it survival of the digitalists.

(41:37):
You got to do these things.
One is become agile.
So if you haven't adopted agile practices, agile organization, I really believe you should,
because that's speed to value.
That's like every two weeks, right?
You're iterating.
You're doing something new.
You're failing fast.
You're then going into sort of the second thing, which is virtualize everything possible,
right?
Move into the cloud, remote process automation, AI, virtual.

(42:01):
When I said virtual, this is like virtual sitting, virtual nursing, taking the high
cost areas and reducing the cost, doing virtual medical care wherever you can in general.
So these are different ways of taking cost out, looking at the supply chain, leveraging
again, AI to really analyze your supply spend.
There's a lot of these areas, which I think are untouched, that I think you could probably

(42:25):
pull out 25% of cost, which would be dramatic.
But again, because of all the reasons we talked about earlier, no one's doing it because,
like just to jump into a real example, the supply chain example of AI, I know there's
AI capabilities right now that'll pull out anywhere from 10% to 20% of your supply chain
cost.
This is millions and millions and millions of dollars for healthcare organizations.

(42:46):
It's not getting done.
Why?
Well, supply chain owns that, and there's some proud people in supply chain.
And if you were to identify the fact that they could have been saving more money for
a long time, that would hurt them.
But so instead of saying, wow, this is great.
Thanks for sharing.
Wow, we never saw this before.
Let's do it.
No, no, it's kind of defensive.
And it's like, who are you, IT or whoever might be making the suggestion, Chief Transformation

(43:08):
Officer?
Who are you to come in and tell us our business?
So anyways, things are moving.
But back to sort of this list of two to three different things.
One is value-based care.
That's where we're headed.
And so there's a lot of organizations that are doing well, that are embracing it and
trying it.
Most organizations, you know what they're doing?
They're like, hey, we're still making money fee for service.
Let's just focus on that.

(43:29):
And then we'll do something when the time comes.
I would not wait.
I would be very proactive.
So that's another thing that's coming and what you could do with your systems to prepare
for value-based care, right?
Virtual care again, taking out cost, being masterful with data and analytics.
So those are different things.
You know, another one is M&A.
I think there could be a lot more M&A taking place.

(43:49):
We already see it all the time.
So be ready.
Again, it goes back to Agile to do quick assimilation.
So we had it down as a science where I came from because we did it so much.
We finally created our own playbook.
So you should be able to assimilate an organization in 30 days.
Just need to be quick at doing it.
And the final thing and another easy, another one, I was about to say easy, but it's not
easy.

(44:10):
Mimic your competition, the new entrants that are coming from retail, that are coming from
big tech, they are eating your lunch right now, right?
If we're talking here to, if the listener is from a traditional provider like a hospital,
you're being disintermediated right now by all these new entrants.
So mimic them as simple example.
This isn't the only thing, but this is just right off the top of my head is your hours

(44:31):
of service.
And we've been talking about this for 25, 30 years, right?
Everyone wants to do eight to five.
Well, most people can't see a clinician eight to five means that they have to give up their
own work time.
So they go after hours.
So what does Walmart do?
For years they've been doing this.
You can come in at 9pm.
You could come in on the weekend.
It's so convenient.
So anyways, that's just a simple example, but those are four or five things that we can

(44:53):
do post pandemic with the trends and how we can react to those trends.
No, that's fascinating.
I feel like we could talk about this for the rest of the podcast episode, but I wanted to
ask about your upcoming book.
And I know you've been working with Chris Ross to co-author a book about your shared
patient experience, and I would love to hear how you envision digital transformation, playing

(45:15):
a role in enhancing the current patient experience.
What insights can you share from authoring that book with Chris?
Yeah.
So we're super excited about the book.
The book is actually written for the public.
So everything in the book is really to help common people like ourselves, but who are
unaware of healthcare and how it works and their families.

(45:36):
But in all the research that we did and all the focus groups that we did, we found four
or five things I can share with you that are going to be written separately in a white
paper, which will come out, I think, at HIMS for the industry.
Here's sort of a high level summary of what they are.
And again, most of these are free, and most of these actually don't take tech.
So that was our findings.
So most things don't cost money.

(45:58):
Number one, two, you don't need a patient experience officer to deliver exceptional patient experience.
You don't need an office of patient experience.
We have had many of those things in the past.
I know for years and years, at least a generation where we may have not a patient experience,
we called it old Budsman or different things like that.

(46:19):
But we had these departments before and we haven't moved the needle very much.
So it's okay to have them.
I'm not saying don't have them, but in our analysis and studies, we found no difference
whether you had one or didn't have one.
So that's sort of finding number two.
Number three is tech is never the reason for patient experience success or failure, but

(46:40):
can accelerate either.
So tech did not differentiate who was delivering good patient experience and who wasn't.
But here's what we did learn about tech.
Don't only have a digital front door, as some people call it, but a digital back door.
Thank you.
Yeah.
So we're so focused on that front door that we forget there's tons of gaps in care after

(47:05):
the person's been released.
And that's where they need the most support.
We're happy because we build them.
We took care of them.
We build them.
But they're having a terrible experience.
You know, it's really, it's really ironic because when I remember having so many conversations
around network integrity and how important it is when you have your layer of primary
care to increase your funnel as your front door and then focusing on network integrity

(47:30):
of what you've got behind that, whether that is an ASC strategy or specialist strategy
or even to the hospitals, whatever it may be, they never deployed technology to make
that happen.
They just relied on word of mouth amongst their primary care physicians.
And you're like, well, wait, what?

(47:51):
So your point about care gaps and post delivery transitions, post care delivery transition
as being challenged, I think that's, well, to put your point on it, digital back door
is important.
Well, one, we all know no one hears what the clinician is telling to you when you're in
a moment of crisis or finishing your surgery.
And then they give you this bunch of paper to meet a meaningful use requirement and they

(48:17):
don't understand it.
We understand it because we're in the business, but they don't understand it.
They just need someone to hold their hand.
In fact, the sort of unofficial title of our book is treat it like a hand you can hold
through your journey because we kind of like fill them in on all these sort of things.
So the next thing on tech, so this is sort of that third point I was making about tech
never being the necessary, the exact reason for a good or bad patient experience, but

(48:41):
can be an accelerator of either is simplicity.
So sometimes with digital front doors, and I know the EMR vendors don't like me saying
this, but it's the truth, don't have that high of adoption.
It's not like 90% of people are downloading the app and doing everything the app says.
And so we have to think simplicity.
And so sometimes it's a text message, right?

(49:02):
Most people do text messages.
A lot of people like I'm a app person, I love apps and it's fine for me, but not everyone
is like that.
And so if you send people a text message and they can just click on that link and get whatever
they need, you know, think about simplicity.
And then the final two, so it's really quick, again, non-technical, but huge is that empathy

(49:23):
trumps programs.
So maybe it goes with that one I made about the office of patient experience.
If you can teach and model empathy to your employees, it makes a huge difference.
Because at the end of the day, that's really the interaction, you know, that makes a difference.
It's that interaction with that clerk.
It's that interaction with the clinician or the clinician assistant.

(49:45):
It's a personal interaction that gets people to really think about experience because they'll
forgive an egregious error if they connected with you and understand your heart.
And so we talk a lot in there about empathy and how to model it and lead it in organizations.
That's probably maybe the biggest one if I was forced to pick one.
And then the final one is operate healthcare as a service, not a product.

(50:11):
And this is what I mean.
If you go into health systems today, the revenue cycle person, whoever's in charge, they're
going to make sure you have a great front end experience and ideally a great back end
experience with your financials.
You're going to have a good check-in process and they're going to be nice.
And then the billing is going to be nice and clear.
And then you have maybe the clinical area.
So maybe you had to go to radiology.

(50:33):
They're going to make sure the radiology experience was really nice.
And then you're going to go to another silo where you're going to have a nice experience.
But while you have these vertical niceness, there's no horizontal seamlessness.
And so Tris tells the best story because it's so personal about, you know, his care was
so complex, he had to go across multiple divisions.

(50:55):
And so he had to call and make an appointment with radiology, but it had to sync up with
what the lab needed and what the other clinic.
So he was the person and here he is, he's sick and dying, you know?
And he's got to make it happen.
And yes, his was unusually complex.
So that's a key point.
Operate healthcare as a service, not a product.

(51:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's a great use case for AI to help inform that transformation.
Just listening to you talk about your crisis story, it's almost like we're asking patients
to be their own care coordinators.
Yes.
Yes, we are.
And in the face of, and we have been for decades, but in the face of a workforce crisis, we
do need to be thinking about how technology, how we can leverage intelligence and automation

(51:40):
to improve the patient experience and make it more seamless.
And I'm sorry for the cheesiness, Elliot, but I have to say that when Ed was talking
about, you know, empathy, trumping programs and patient experience, I couldn't help but
think about the Maya Angelou quote.
They may forget what you said, but they'll never forget how you made them feel.
I'm paraphrasing here, but it is about creating space for that people connection.

(52:02):
And if we can, in some cases, take tech away, you know, remove tech from the system, then
you can create space for ever tech simplicity, right?
Like you were saying, then you can create more space for human connection.
And I think it's not necessarily about taking tech away, but it's making tech invisible,
I think is the real need, right?

(52:22):
So that it doesn't force something unnatural into the process or into the experience and
that's that that kind of melt into the background, the other thing that I would say is that we
also have to, at the same time, be mindful in our quest for cost savings and for automation
that we don't leave people behind because we will.

(52:47):
And Ed, you've been a CEO.
What's the number one driver of cost in any organization?
Yes, a labor.
Right.
100% of the time.
And so when we talk about how we can take care of these back office things with tech
to make things seamless, etc., that will translate into people losing their jobs.
I think we just need to be mindful of how that happens.

(53:09):
We know that it's very rare for healthcare organizations, especially to right size patient
facing roles.
They don't they never seem to get lost and that's fine.
And that's great.
And that usually comes at the expense of the back end.
So we can't lose sight of the back end people in this process as well.

(53:30):
I don't know why I felt like I needed to say that.
I agree.
So we talked about the patient experience here, Ed.
So you've served, you mentioned earlier, you've served on boards of various different healthcare
organizations.
What advice do you have for those leaders aiming to strike a balance between innovation
and patient care?

(53:51):
Let's put it in the context of today's environment, which is constantly changing, constantly getting
faster.
It seems like tech is being delivered and innovation is being delivered at an exponential
pace.
So let's kind of just add that little extra element onto the end of it there.
Yeah, not everyone is in a position to have an innovation office or chief innovation officer.
So there are a few out there that do that and they do everything from doing some internal

(54:15):
innovation to investing in innovation.
It doesn't mean though that if you don't have that capability that you can't do something.
And like the example with chief patient experience officer, you can do without that as well and
be equally successful.
So a couple of things I would do.
One is look to your partners, i.e. vendors, and see if you can't do something innovative
together.

(54:36):
They're often looking for a partner to innovate with and they just need a willing partner.
And so you should seek out your vendors and see what opportunities you have.
I do that all the time and another thing that you should do is you should go visit your
vendor partners.
So it just so happened, I've done this a couple of times in my career where a lot of our

(54:56):
part vendors were on the West Coast, they don't need to be, but just so happens they were
conveniently located together.
And so I took out my executives for three days and we visited back in the day, it's just
an older example.
We went to Cisco, we went to Apple, we went to Microsoft, we went to HP.
We're all co-located pretty much.

(55:17):
And so, but in one week, we got to meet with executives in healthcare and talk from their
point of view and came up with all sorts of innovative ideas.
So that's a pretty easy one.
I've made the same sort of trips up to Madison or Kansas City, wherever that might take
you.
So partner with someone.
The next is think about innovation that's do or die almost.

(55:40):
Like if you have to innovate or else, you will not be existing in the future.
So take it very seriously.
So one thing to do, if you can't afford to have your own sort of innovation center,
one thing you can do in addition to partnering is make innovation part of people's job description.
So make an expectation that, look, here's your job description and one of the things

(56:00):
in it is to come up with two or three innovative ideas per quarter.
It could be something as simple as that.
And so that starts making innovation part of the culture of the organization.
So it's not going to happen in a year.
You got to take a long-term approach.
But if you start visiting these places and getting new ideas, if you start hosting startups
in your environment and seeing what new ideas and maybe opportunities to work together to

(56:23):
try to innovate something, if you start putting it in people's job descriptions and maybe making
some bonuses based out of it, another thing you can do culturally, and I've done all
the things that I'm telling you right now, is we had our own TEDx.
So we had TEDxTHR as an example for many years.
Again, you have to take some long-term approach.
But within TEDxTHR, not only were they hearing from outside people on innovation, but we

(56:48):
also had a program internally where people could bring up their innovative ideas.
There was a contest.
Ultimately, they went to the C-suite, the final 10, and they presented to the C-suite
who picked the final three.
And then they went to the TEDx event where they all presented.
And then the TEDx participants voted on which one was going to get funded.
And we're not talking about a lot of money here, but everyone knew that they're going

(57:09):
to get funded.
And I remember that one person in particular who won, she was from the food service.
And now today she's some VP of digital and some health system on the West Coast.
So that's how you do it.
You have to just, again, you can't let money be the reason you don't do anything.
You just got to do a lot of little things, many of them free, not all of them.
And eventually you'll create this culture and become more innovative.

(57:33):
I love that, especially the sort of the multi-layered competition for staff.
And even, I mean, something as subtle as putting in the job description, because then it ties
it to the performance appraisal.
Believe it or not, I've actually been on teams before, not at my current organization, but
where people have said, oh, I don't know about this candidate.
I think they're too innovative.
And I'm like, where's the door?

(57:55):
So I do think it sends a really strong signal to the folks you're trying to recruit into
your organization if you bake innovation into the job description and into the performance
appraisal.
You know, Sarah, what I always tell people as well is like, to be innovative, you must
be innovative.
I always found it funny, and I won't name the health system, but it goes back a few years

(58:16):
where we were big in a mobile strategy.
So we were known.
So this was, iPhone had just come out, and we were like one of the first in the country
to really push apps and the whole idea of mobile medicine.
And so we were talking about this, and I was trying to get funding for some things.
And I remember the C-suite telling me why the strategy should be a little different, why

(58:38):
this and that.
And then I would go on these trips with them, and they still were using paper boarding passes.
You know, and so I brought it up one time.
I said, look, you're trying to define the mobile strategy for our health systems and our patients,
but you use paper boarding passes.
You do not, you even have an iPhone or whatever you know, might be.

(58:58):
So from that on, I was like, I can't be like that because I could easily be like that,
like not try new things.
So you have to force yourself, if you're a leader listening, force yourself to always
try new things in your personal life and professional life because you can't be innovative if you're
not innovative.
Yeah, I like that.
Walk the talk, right?

(59:18):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you can't promote it if you don't do it.
Yeah, I'm kind of experiencing that in my own field right now where there's a lot of disruptive
generative AI technology, some of which we're developing internally to the organization and
others we're partnering with our vendors to bring transformation to our organization.
And there are, you know, subsets of users who are really kind of just waiting for that

(59:41):
approved license to fall in their lap.
And I'm thinking, you're going to be out there experimenting with it, not necessarily with
PHI or business confidential information, but use it in your personal life.
Like so your boarding pass example is excellent.
It's like, where has transformation already disrupted an industry?
You should go there, right?

(01:00:02):
And start using the tools and building the skills so that when they arrive in your organization
and they've made it through all the red tape and the bureaucracy, you're ready to run,
right?
There's a lot of opportunity to start educating yourself about AI, even if your organization
isn't using it yet.
To just add on to that, right?
Using it in your own personal life.
So if you are still handing out business cards, yes.

(01:00:25):
You are doing something wrong.
Yes.
Yes.
The trees still hate you.
I mean, you know, it's funny, but like there's still people out there banning in business
cards.
But like without even having, okay, whether you use a regular QR code or you use the
built-in functionality in LinkedIn, whatever it is, move on to something else.

(01:00:46):
Yeah.
It's like, again, I make people mad, but that's sort of my history a little bit.
And I don't mean to make them mad.
I just push buttons to try to get people to think differently.
It's like we would have people, TIOs, and I saw a lot of them at Shine.
They still dress the same that they did 20 years ago.
They had the same ties, you know?

(01:01:06):
And it's like, the real wide ones at the bottom.
Come on, you know, like, have you not-
Clothes have gotten a lot more comfortable over the years.
It's like, I don't get it.
It's like, and then it makes me think, I really do think this way.
It's like, if you're still stuck 20 years ago with the way you dress, hmm, I wonder
how stuck you are in everything else.

(01:01:28):
And that's why I try new things, try dressing differently, whatever.
I could go on and on, but yeah, I think you get the point.
But still, stay away from plaids and polka dots.
They clash too much together.
Oh, man, I love plaid.
What are you talking about?
No, no, no, no, individually, they're fine.
Yes.
Individually, they're fine.
But some rules will never be broken.

(01:01:48):
Black socks.
That's gonna end with that.
Yeah.
All right, Ed, we've got one final question for you.
You've had a multifaceted career professionally, personally.
Can you tell us a little bit more about your experiences in the U.S. Army, your passion
for Team USA triathlete?
How have these aspects of your personal life maybe shaped your approach to healthcare transformation,

(01:02:11):
healthcare leadership?
Yeah, I think one thing that's really important, I learned this probably in the Army more than
any place else, is mind, body, and soul, that you need to exercise all aspects of who you
are as a human, because you have to have endurance.
So if you just pick on the physical side for a second, it's hard.
The role of a tech leader, especially in healthcare, it's hard and arduous.

(01:02:36):
So you've got to be fit, mental fit, physically fit, spiritually for whatever that means for
people.
And so think of yourself as a whole person and take good care of yourself.
That's the point.
Get sleep, get the mental healthcare that you need, all these different things, because
I think we tend as leaders to ignore those things.
We may talk about how important it is, but don't do it ourselves.

(01:02:58):
And then we run into problems.
So I just remember that training in the military and how important it was, because we were
put under very stressful environments, and you always had that foundation to lean back
on and same as a healthcare CIO.
Wow, I went through some pretty stressful situations, and I was always the lean on that.
So really think of yourself as an athlete and train and eat and drink responsibly in

(01:03:24):
that way.
The other things that I learned are just obvious ones, and Sarah and Elliot, you are all really
good at this, and this is having, being a servant, being a servant leader and looking
to pour yourself out into others and helping others.
And the rest will come to you typically if you follow that.
And then is having vision, which generates passion and energy.

(01:03:45):
So it's like, you should have a vision for your life.
I've always had, I learned that, yeah, in both, you know, like if I take, if I go to
team USA example, you know, I always wanted to be an Olympic athlete, and it just didn't
happen for me, but I had this opportunity to train with Olympic athletes if I could
make this team.
And it's like, well, I can never make this team, but I put out this vision like, I'm

(01:04:06):
going to make that team.
And I remember 10 years ago, it was 2013 in Tucson, Arizona, and I finally got the, got
the invite to try out for the national team.
And man, I was dogging myself.
I'm too fat.
I don't have a expensive enough bike, all this negative self-talk and doubt.
And then I was there and seeing all these people that looked way better than me.
And I was like, oh my gosh, but I decided, no, I'm going to give everything I had.

(01:04:27):
I got, I made the last spot on the team.
And I think the reason is sort of that vision.
It's like, I just had that vision.
It's like, no, no, no, I'm going to do this despite all the things that are against me.
I'm going to do it.
And then that propelled, that gave me the passion, that gave me the energy to make that
team.
I've been on the team for 10 years now since making the team.
Usually last place every time, but I make the team.

(01:04:47):
And so it's like, you got to have that vision that keeps you like engaged to eat, right?
To train, right?
All that kind of stuff.
So that's the other thing that I learned.
So vision, serving others and think of yourself as an athlete in your career.
I love that head.
Thank you so much.
And I, I also really like having sort of like a personal strategy.
It seems like you have a set of like where, where do I want to go as an individual?

(01:05:10):
And that's going to, that's going to carry me forward in my leadership.
And I don't, without wanting to overshare, I just have to say that you really do walk
the walk because I've seen, I've followed you on LinkedIn and I've seen people say,
how do you have time?
And you know, we're, we're joking in the intro, reading your bio that you have a clone and
all this stuff.
But when we were supposed to do this recording session with you a few days back, you said,

(01:05:30):
you know what?
I've got a really important personal thing coming up and, and I need to push this by
a couple of days.
Does that work for you and Elliot?
And I think so what I would add to your, your wisdom is, is advocate for yourself and for
your needs within that strategy.
Right.
And you did a really, really good job of that because you can't do it all.
And sometimes you have to, you have to reprioritize, right?
Just like in the C suite.

(01:05:50):
So kudos Ed.
Yeah, I made my wife happy.
It was my anniversary.
So we weren't going to be the ones to, to, to mess that up for you, my friend.
But it's tech it to the limit.
Yeah.
The Eagles might show up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's going to take you to the doghouse.
If you're right.
Oh my gosh.
Ed, this has been fabulous.

(01:06:13):
Thank you so much for the time today.
We appreciate you bringing your immense history and knowledge and sharing that with us today.
Thank you so much.
And hopefully we'll see you soon at something or you're always doing something.
So I'm sure we'll find some way to connect with you.
Yeah.
I feel very blessed to be part of your show.

(01:06:33):
I really encourage people to, to listen to Tech it to the limit with Sarah and Elliot.
Thanks again for having me.
Thank you so much for coming.
Yeah.
It's great to, great to talk to you.
Thank you so much for joining.
And we're out.
That was great.
Thank you.
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(01:09:05):
Welcome back folks to Tech It To The Limit.
Wow, what a great conversation that was.
Thank you so much to Ed Marks for joining us.
He brought so many different experiences to the conversation over his storied career,
Sarah, and brought a lot of nuggets to the table.
I'm sure that you might have snacked on a few.

(01:09:28):
I'm kind of curious.
What kind of nuggets did you hear?
Oh man, I'm so ready to dig into these nuggets.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for serving that up for me, Elliot.
I have three sizable nuggets that I wanted to share.
I sounds corny, a little bit dated, maybe like 90s fashion, but I think still an excellent,

(01:09:49):
excellent point.
Streamlined governance.
This is something that, especially as we move towards more agility in our organizations,
I think we want to make sure we don't lose the key decision making capabilities up in
the C-suite.
I loved his example of elevating the IT initiative leadership to the C-suite level.

(01:10:09):
Our accountables are your CEO and your CIO, and that drives not only accountability and
alignment with strategy, but also transparency throughout the initiative.
I love that.
Also, that tech is never the reason for success or failure when it comes to patient experience,
but it can be an accelerator for either.

(01:10:30):
That was an excellent insight.
And unless you're like tech often gets blamed for poor experiences, and sometimes it's on
point.
Right?
If you have a lack of positive patient experience in your organization, tech's just going to
shine a bright light on that.
Right?
So I really appreciated that sort of teasing out those are two separate problems that you

(01:10:52):
need to address in your organization.
And part of the whole patient experience thing is really sexy, as we know from our previous
fashion show, is that the digital front door is like all the rage.
Everyone's got their digital front door strategy.
But what often gets overlooked is the digital back door.
And I loved that nugget that it really, we have this digital front door is like an on-ramp

(01:11:17):
to get into our businesses, if we're provider organizations, and then we forget like, how
are we taking patient, care of patients after they go home?
Right?
And at the core of that, it's a business model issue.
Right?
I mean, that's a fee for service volume over value type of operational model.
And so as the industry moves towards more value-based agreements, I am hopeful that

(01:11:39):
those digital back doors will become a table stakes strategy when it comes to delivering
value.
Right?
Well, they're going to be the ones that are going to reduce your costs in the long run.
Exactly.
And improve your outcomes.
Exactly.
So those things will become key.
I thought, I think that's a really tasty nugget that you found about the tech never being

(01:12:00):
the reason for patient experience failure or success.
I also heard him say that empathy trumps programs with respect to patient experience, which I
thought was really interesting and important to keep in mind.
And he stressed how you can still have these very vertical positive experiences that you're

(01:12:22):
providing to your patients, but are lacking in a horizontal seamless experience for your
patients across either different business units or different parts of that process,
like you said on the digital back door.
Right?
And I think that's one of those areas where the wrong tech or bad tech can highlight or

(01:12:42):
shine a light on that lack of horizontal experience, which then will trump anything you try and
do with your vertical positive experience.
That's what will leave the sour taste in the mouth.
Yeah, yeah.
So a classic example is like you have one experience for patients on your app and you

(01:13:02):
have another experience for your remote patient monitoring program and another for your advanced
care at home.
You're using different vendors for every single point on the care continuum.
And that creates a siloed patient experience from a tech perspective, right?
But it's easier said than done to integrate all of those.
And I think it's going to take time for the industry to mature and offer more products

(01:13:24):
within one portfolio.
No disrespect to Ed, but like a lot of the things he talked about were easier said than
done.
Right.
Oh yeah.
He's a visionary for sure.
And we need that guidepost, right?
We need something to reach for, right?
But absolutely kind of like executing on the strategic vision as he knows from a lot of

(01:13:46):
experience takes time, takes resources.
But I appreciate his optimism and I'm sure as a leader of organizations he's very inspiring
lighting the fire under that strategy.
Last nugget, I'll keep it brief.
In the spirit of fashion week, I love that he woven some fashion advice talking about,
you know, as an organization, innovation is essentially a strategic imperative.

(01:14:09):
You need to innovate or you're going to die.
So therefore you should make innovation part of people's job descriptions.
You should bake it into the culture.
Consider having it as one of your core values.
It's one of ours here on Tech It to the Limit.
How this ties into fashion is he was, he gave us some really helpful advice, which is you
can't be innovative if you're not innovative.
So stop using paper boarding passes.

(01:14:31):
Stop wearing ties from the 1990s and black socks, right?
I mean, you got to, you got to kind of walk the walk, talk the talk and dress the part.
And that includes trying out being an early adopter of tech solutions outside of the healthcare
industry because they will eventually be coming for us once they get through the red tape.
So those are my nuggets.

(01:14:52):
Yeah, I think those are great.
I think it really tasty.
I mean, yeah, he did say, right?
I mean, if you're, if you're still stuck in those big lapel suits, how innovative are
you really?
I mean, like he makes judgments like that.
And I think that's really cool.
So my nuggets, I had some tasty nuggets, some, some crunchy things to snack on for a bit.
He came out of the gate with something that really struck me.
I thought that his description of focusing on digital health and digital health innovation

(01:15:17):
from the perspective of operations, clinical and digital as three strands of rope to be
intertwined together, being much stronger than any, any individual piece.
We talked about virtual care and the delivery of virtual care just recently in the success
of it was one of those examples where all three of those finally kind of came, started
to come together.

(01:15:37):
When we were first trying to do a lot of virtual care, you know, we had the clinical and the
digital, but maybe not the operations and we were trying to launch these virtual care
programs that mimicked an in-person workflow.
Oh yeah.
And just didn't, and it didn't work.
It wasn't able to scale properly.

(01:15:58):
But when we started to really get operations on board, now we're seeing like virtual care
programs are very much starting to be the norm because we've really started to break
through a lot of that.
So I thought three strands of rope much stronger.
That's something that you can.
Put in your pipe and smoke.
What is it?
The frontier?

(01:16:18):
That's something that you can strap to a carabiner and climb a mountain.
Wow.
Okay.
Yours is much more metaphorical than mine was.
Well, you know, it's, it's, it's really sticking with that rope metaphor.
Really, really trying to stick with it.
What other nuggets did you nash on, Sir Elliot?
I thought his comments around developing trusted partnerships between provider and healthcare

(01:16:40):
delivery organizations and industry and vendors as being critical to the advancement of innovation
in organizations.
He really challenges the traditional notion of both seeing each other as necessary evils,
right?
The industry sees the providers as a necessary evil to do business and make money.

(01:17:02):
And you know, providers see the vendors traditionally as this necessary evil because they have this
thing that I need in order to do my business, right?
And there's this antagonism that often comes up when you, when you have that, when you're
coming at it from that mindset.
So moving toward a trusted partnership is a trend that I think that we're seeing in the

(01:17:23):
industry.
Every, you know, healthcare provider organizations are talking about how they're looking for
a partner that will grow with them and grow with their programs.
And I think that's really music to industry's ears because it makes them more sticky with
their customers.
And you can really see them embracing this kind of concept because all of their sales

(01:17:43):
people are now called director of healthcare partnerships, right?
Or provider partnerships or something like that, right?
So you can see it in their nomenclature now.
So that was on point.
My last nugget I think I can certainly relate to is this idea that humble leadership is
necessary across the board to advance digital transformation within an organization.

(01:18:08):
It can't just be one champion of digital transformation kind of going, you know, Sally forth and drive
the change when people still get stuck in their fiefdoms and aren't humble enough to
say, Oh, this is, this is something that we should look into because they fear that they
may lose something or may be seen differently for not having already implemented it in their

(01:18:32):
fiefdom, etc.
So the advice to relinquish thy fiefdoms, right?
I think is important.
And don't be afraid of people that challenge that mindset or the status quo when you're
looking for people to challenge and looking to hire people that may challenge, look for
people that have been fired.
But ask them why.

(01:18:53):
Yeah, ask them why, but hire people that have been fired.
And that really resonates with me.
I think that you should definitely hire people that have been fired in the past.
No, those are great.
I get it.
It's important that that we all come out of our fiefdoms and, you know, we can each
individually commit to professional development, leadership development.
But it's that's the one thing I can control, right, is my own actions and words and how

(01:19:18):
I live into my values and my organization's values.
So it's, it's, it's a complex issue.
I am so appreciative of his point.
But again, I think it's, it's easier said than done.
And what leaders can control is the culture of their teams and the culture of their organizations.
So it's a business case for having a healthy culture at work as well, where people feel

(01:19:39):
safe, right?
To relinquish their fiefdom.
Okay.
Hey, I think that wraps up our tasty nugget gnawshing.
I'm a professional session, Elliott.
It does.
And I'm full.
I bet our listeners are as well.
Speaking of our listeners, wanted to remind you all that we are on LinkedIn.
You can follow us on LinkedIn.

(01:20:00):
We love it when people comment on our posts and we love you even more when you share it
to your network, because that really helps the algorithms.
Speaking of algorithms, please leave us a review wherever you, you pod and certainly
word of mouth still is very, very helpful.
So tell a friend if you love the show, tell a friend of me.
If you don't love it, just tell someone.

(01:20:22):
Elliott, do you want to send us off with our health tech haiku?
I would love to, Sarah, for in honor of our last podcast for the season, sinking with
Sarah in a podcast by dance.
Health tech's new rhythm.

(01:20:42):
Ooh, I like that.
I like the dance.
All right, Elliott, in honor of our six, no, seven episodes together, but a fun ride,
I asked generative AI to create this haiku for you.
Tech talks with Elliott.
Heartbeats sink in podcast fun.
Health bites.

(01:21:02):
Friendship won.
So wonderful.
Thank you listeners.
We will see you next season.
Thank you so much.
See you next season.
See you next season.
Tech into the limit is produced by Sarah Harper and Elliott Wilson in consultation with chat

(01:21:33):
GPT because they are masochists and also don't have any sponsors.
But music was composed by the world famous court minister Evan O'Donovan.
To consume more hilarious and informative content by digital transformation and health
care, visit us online at techitthelimit.com.
And don't forget to follow us on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, and across the event horizon.

(01:21:57):
See you next time on Tech it to the limit.

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