October 14, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode of the Tech on Toast Podcast, host Chris Fletcher sits down with David Dillon, Founder and CEO of UROCKED, the digital tipping platform making gratuities transparent, compliant, and fair for everyone in hospitality.
Born from a real operator problem, watching his mum spend hours calculating tips by hand, David built UROCKED to make life easier for hospitality teams and ensure every pound of gratuity reaches the people who earned it.
A year on from the UK Tipping Act, Chris and David unpack what’s changed (and what hasn’t), how technology is helping to close the trust gap, and why transparency is now essential to both compliance and culture.
They cover:
💡 The origins of UROCKED and how it simplifies tipping for operators and staff
⚖️ One year on from the Tipping Act – has it worked?
📱 Why digital tipping boosts transparency, retention, and guest trust
💷 What customers still misunderstand about service charges
📊 UROCKED’s latest research, 65% of staff rely on tips as part of their income
🤝 How tech can balance fairness, compliance, and business sustainability
From “tipping land” to the future of cashless gratitude, this is a refreshingly honest look at how digital innovation can make hospitality fairer, and how small changes can make a big difference to people’s lives.
🎧 Listen now and find out why UROCKED is redefining what it means to earn your tips.
🔗 Learn more at urocked.com
💚 Explore hospitality tech at techontoast.community
📍 Follow Tech on Toast on LinkedIn and Instagram for more industry conversations
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Welcome to the Tech and Toast podcast.
We are the home of hostility tech.
The Tech and Toast Podcast is brought to you today by our
friends at Lightspeed. The holidays are here and your
restaurant is buzzing. But Are you ready for the rush?
The festive season is make or break time for many restaurants
filled with non-stop tableside service, kitchen chaos and
complex reservations. But what if you had a secret
weapon? Well, Lightspeed is that weapon
(00:25):
is the ultimate point of sale and payments platform that helps
your team deliver seamless service and incredible
experiences. Imagine your staff taking orders
and payments right to the table with tableside or having your
front and back house perfectly In Sync during peak hours.
Wouldn't that be nice? Lightspeed gives you the tools
to not only survive the holidays, but truly shine, all
while saving time, reducing errors, and keeping guests
(00:45):
coming back for more. This season, let your tech do
the work for you. Close the year strong with
Lightspeed Restaurant. We're a digital tipping platform
effectively that integrates withpayment devices and stand alone
devices, whether that be AQR code or another electronic
device. A lot of the products are
difficult to put in, but you're not like that, right?
And I thought there must be an easier way.
(01:07):
And that's where it started. I get a notification when a tip
comes through. That actually tipping was very
much based on whether you had a good time or not.
Customers definitely see the benefits in it because again,
they've got Peace of Mind that those tips are going to that
staff. The difference with our system
is every employee has an app. 65% of staff rely on their tips
or service charges. You said gratuity.
(01:29):
British people generally are tipping more.
Welcome to the next episode, thesecond Test Podcast, and today
I'm delighted to be joined by David Dillon, CEO of You Rocked.
David, how are you? I'm very well.
Thank you. I'm going to point out that I've
David said to me last week, I hate public speaking, I hate
podcasts. And so today we've had him
public speaking an hour ago. Now we've got one of podcasts.
How's your day going? It's wonderful, yeah.
(01:49):
Throw me into the deep end. No, no, no.
You're more than welcome. You're in a safe space here, so
it's all good. Before we get into what we talk
about, like the product which wewere learning about this morning
and actually we opened about thecan of worms on the panel.
I thought we did. Yeah.
It was really interesting and I think that's a conversation we
should probably have. Tell us a little bit about you
and how you got to this point inyour career.
You were telling me a little bitabout your younger years before
down there, but tell us a littlebit about how you got to this
(02:10):
point. So always been a bit of a serial
entrepreneur. They have a problem solver
trying to make it good in this world, should we say?
And then I had one light bulb moment, I suppose, when my mum
took on a hospitality business. She's not from a hospitality
background. And most people would say, oh,
(02:32):
where, where did your business come from?
Especially people that are in this industry.
Oh, yeah, We're very emotive. We want to know why.
Yeah. And most people, most people
will say, well, I always used toask, do you get this tip?
And I was always faced with no, maybe sometimes.
So mine didn't really come from that side of it.
I was always a tipper. And I always used to ask that
(02:53):
question. But I didn't think of this idea
because of that. Yeah, mine was.
Again, I was in my mum's venue and she was working out the
tips, calculating them, looking at Excel spreadsheets, you know,
going through receipts and everything else.
And I said to her, how long are you going to be?
And she said, well, a little while.
Yeah. And I thought they must to be an
easier way. And that's where it started.
(03:15):
I then started looking into it and then my I myself opened up a
can of worms looking into trunk systems and skiing National
Insurance contributions and things like that.
And that's where the idea originated from.
So it was actually from an operator side and then came the
that came the employee and. And, and this morning we had a
(03:37):
couple of guests on our panel inmarket halls just about an hour
ago and we were talking and we had a lawyer, which is nice to
have a lawyer to on the panel. I've never had a lawyer on the
panel before or, or there's a Scouse that was, it was quite
worrying. Yeah, just just background
checks and all that that's happened.
And we were talking really aboutthe tipping act and it's a year
on since it began. And we were talking about kind
of the goods and bads and everything that's happened.
(03:59):
And I just so we can hear on thepodcast, where do you think
we've gone in a year? And kind of you have to
summarize kind of what it looks like from that, that lens.
How how's it looking out there? And I call it tipping land.
Yeah, you can call it tipping land, gratuity land, service
charge land. Yeah, I think from as we
discussed earlier, I think from 99.9% of the bigger operators
(04:20):
out there were probably being quite fair before anyway.
So I don't think things have changed much.
I think they may have evaluated some of their reporting and tech
they're using, but I think kind of their staff are still getting
their tips. Maybe it's not as transparent as
it should be, but they are stillgiving 100% of tips and service
(04:41):
charge to their staff. So on the smaller scale, let's
say owner operated businesses, how do I think that's going?
Not very well. I still think that you've
probably got from the people that we speak to only 20% that
actually care about the law. The other is it.
Is it? Care or is it no as in or is it
a bit of both like because you know?
(05:02):
A bit of both, but I think some of it's naivety as well as in I
don't want to know. That's a good point.
I think, yeah, when they're small businesses anyway, they're
with rising costs from everything they do.
Actually those tips and those service charges they were
charging that that's, that's good for their bottom line.
(05:23):
And it keeps their lights on rather than increasing their
menu prices a bit or getting ridof 1 member of staff.
And so I think they're kind of like we'll carry on doing what
we're doing until we. Someone tells us not to.
Get told not to. So from that end of the market,
yeah, yes, there are people thatare adapting, but I think
there's a lot of businesses thatare not and are not willing to
(05:44):
change. And before we get into the
actual product, I think Sharon from Lane Sevens on apartment,
she talked quite openly about actually the benefit of she said
you've visibly seen tips go up or you know, employees taking
more home in their pockets. So it's weird, isn't it?
Because I know what you're saying, a small business will
use it to kind of keep the lights on as you put.
It but then if you use a platform like us or our peers or
(06:05):
competitors out there, whatever you want to call them when
you're stating that 100% goes tothose staff members and you have
no control over those funds, you're then losing out so.
I see. You see it both ways, but also
they potentially increase their retention and potentially keep
these guys around. And so tell us a little bit
about the product, because I think this name, you said
(06:26):
there's two or three competitorsout there who are in this sphere
that that I know well of I suppose.
And you, what does the product do for layman's term?
Someone's listening. I've no clue about you, rock.
Tell us your best pitch, I suppose.
OK, best pitch. We're a digital tipping platform
effectively that integrates withpayment devices and stand alone
devices, whether that be AQR code or another electronic
(06:49):
device. So if you're in a restaurant and
you wanted to leave a tip, let'stake the one device as we call
it, which is our flagship product, takes the bill and the
tip. The server enters in the amount
for the bill, presents you the terminal.
Do you want to leave a tip? Yes, I do.
All staff get 100% of the tips labeled very clearly.
The customer presents their cards tapped as normal.
(07:12):
Nothing different for the customer.
Yeah, although they know that that says 100% of those tips go
to staff. Which eradicates that question
that we correct we're discussingearlier on today.
Straight away the difference with our system is every
employee has an app that's linked to that team or that
restaurant where they can see every single tip that's coming
(07:32):
into it. So you've got the transparency
there. They can then see the staff
members, they can add staff members, they can split tips via
hours worked, percentages, equally points based system.
They get a notification when a tip comes through.
So again, people get buzz out ofsomeone leaving £10 cash to you
on a table. Great, I've got a great tip.
(07:54):
But when we talked about, you know, transparency and how they
know how much is in the pot, if someone's tapping a card and
even if a bigger business is giving them all their tips,
they're not getting that feelinglike they're getting it, they're
not getting that excitement. We've just got a big tip.
Someone's just left us £250 or something like that.
With our system, it actually tells them as soon as that tip
(08:15):
goes through live and the whole team and.
How do they get that? Is it through a?
Is it through? App or is it inflation on their
phone? Yeah, through, through our app,
yeah. That's very cool because anyone
who's got a subscription business or runs their own
little like, you know, these little Etsy businesses people
have, right. When you get paid, you obviously
get notification on your phone and there is no better feeling
validation actually of what you do for a job than someone saying
(08:36):
there you go, well done. Thank you.
Yeah, that's pretty cool. And and is that and is that the
feedback you get generally then?So I suppose when you're because
you the transparency piece, I think if you 0 in on it is the
really big part is it both in terms of legislation and in
product that actually the peoplecan see what they're getting.
I mean, and it's an obvious question, but are you seeing or
I suppose are the customers seeing the benefits in that
pretty quickly? Customers do, yeah, customers
(08:57):
definitely see the benefits in it because again, they've got
Peace of Mind that those tips are going to that staff.
Generally, we see an increase intips using our software because
there is that Peace of Mind. So even if a customer didn't
want to ask that question, no one's asked that to us today
either. Do all customers want to ask
that question? They're probably thinking it,
(09:18):
but do they want to because theydon't know what they're gonna be
faced with. It's there for them.
So we we do definitely see an increase in tips and staff are
more comfortable with it as well.
And they're providing better service because they're earning
more money. And I think the tipping culture
in the UK, if I can call it a culture.
It is a culture. Yeah, it is, isn't it A growing
one? Yeah.
And and and obviously in the States, if anyone's travelled to
(09:39):
the US and been on holiday or lived there, that actually it's
a given, right. It's it's it's just done.
It's part of their service standard.
It's not, it's not even, I don'teven think it's a moot point,
right. It's nothing to be discussed,
but in the UKI definitely think from my years of working in the
industry that actually tipping was very much based on whether
you had a good time or not. Like very much based on
rewarding. If it sounds obvious, right?
But actually in America it's notlike that.
(10:00):
It's tipping because you've dined out, because you've dined
out where in the UK it's still very much a choice for the
customer. They're saying, OK, actually you
did do a good job. And the big difference here is
that I can reward you. I want to reward you who looked
after me or the chef that made that dish kind of thing.
So I think how do you feel aboutit?
Do you see an increase? I mean, you're seeing an
increase in terms of tips for the staff can see their tips
(10:20):
more, but is the culture, can I say improving that the right
word? Culture is definitely shifting.
I think tourism helps, but I also think, you know, British
people generally are tipping more.
Yeah. However, you do see a negativity
and one of the biggest, you know, responses you get when you
(10:42):
and I read all these kind of forums or, you know, articles
get posted online about tipping.And I read the comments and I
read the comments and the, the biggest thing you get and, and
the biggest comment you get frompeople that don't like tipping
is, well, their employers shouldpay them more.
Yeah, yeah, we're talking about hospitality businesses that have
got increasing costs left, rightand center.
(11:05):
They maybe could pay them a little bit more.
But remember, there's still someone that owns that business
that also needs to earn some money as well.
So they're paying them enough for the person to want to work
at that place of work. Your tip is showing your
gratitude or your, you know, your thanks to them.
So it's completely separate. It's not down to the employer,
especially now that you know 100% of those tips and
(11:26):
gratuities have to go to staff. And we, and we touched on this
morning, I think there's a perception issue, isn't there
with, with tipping. I think generally we talked
about the culture changing a little bit, but actually that
the the comments someone asked in the audience today, you know,
do you feel like we're not doingenough to tell to educate the
customer? Actually, yes, these tips are
now being distributed fairly viathe Tipping Act or via the
technology. Actually it's technology
(11:47):
empowered, I suppose, and I suppose backed up by the Tipping
Act, Yeah, because that's given us some legislation to lean back
on. But do you think we're doing
enough in terms of educating thecustomer on that?
I mean, you guys obviously doingthrough what you can.
I mean, I don't. I'm not sure putting up signs is
going to work everywhere. Yeah.
So you know, there's certain places where you can put up
signs as we discussed earlier, if you're in a Michelin star
(12:07):
restaurant, do absolutely, absolutely not.
I mean, if you're going to thoseMichelin star restaurants, you
know about service charging. Rates.
That was Brendan from JKS, wasn't it?
Just referring to the fact we'renot probably not going to put it
up in our Michelin star. Restaurants, yeah, and we've got
Michelin star restaurants that use us and they use, you know,
different verticals of payment for us as well.
So, you know, not our typical customer covers cost, they use
their own, which again is fine. But when we talk about
(12:31):
awareness, we had a lot of awareness and we had stuff in
the news for probably when we say a lot a week, a week and
maybe it was covered for a period of, I don't know, total
of 10 minutes. Is that awareness or is that
them just going we've done enough and we've pushed enough
PR behind it. That's our bit.
The actual, I think there's a lot of employees as we, as we
(12:54):
know that still aren't aware that they should be getting 100%
of their tips. There are a lot of businesses
that aren't aware that they should be passing across all of
their tips or they're not actually aware of the law.
They're like, you know, it's service charge, not tips.
It's the same thing now, same classification.
And then from a customer perspective, I think they are
the least like the, the, the, the least educated when it comes
(13:18):
to it because the target audience has been around
hospitality. So hospitality magazines,
journals and stuff like. That yeah, it's very much
LinkedIn focused. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, how many customers actually know there's a law
around tipping if you if you got25?
1000 Also, if you're shopping ona Saturday in a shopping center
and you go to this restaurant, it's not like you're a regular
there every week for the whole your life, right?
(13:38):
You're popping into wherever Popeyes and they want whatever,
but you don't really know. You're just eating.
Yeah, yeah. So your expectation is
different. So I think as always for the
hostility, we seem to come a bitfurther down the ladder to kind
of how well we educate people around it.
I'm sure if it was an NHS directive, it probably get more
cash. But definitely and and I think
it's, I think it's definitely anissue in perception, but you
(14:00):
guys have just done a bit a piece of research we have.
I'm going to I'm going to quote from your research.
You can quote from it because I have to have the numbers in my
head. OK, that's good.
Well, I'm going to help you. So yeah, so I mean, I think it
was released today actually, which is this isn't going out
today, but on the set 8th of October.
So, but there's, I think you surveyed over 250 employees and
150 decision makers across full service hostility venues and
(14:23):
some of the stats, these are great actually to have a
conversation. Around 65% of staff rely on
their tips or service charges. You said gratuity as part of
their income. We'll start with that one.
And that's, I think maybe that'sthe thing that customers don't
understand. If you forget the actual tipping
act and legislation, all that noise, the reality is these
girls and boys who work for us, who kind of are on the floor
serving us, they need that money.
Right. Do you know what?
(14:43):
It's quite heartbreaking becausewe have, I mean, we've got over
7000 members, we call them members, employees of
hospitality businesses now registered with Europe.
And we occasionally get calls and it's, you know, probably
every couple of weeks, whereas remember whether they might have
€7.00 in their pot. Yeah.
(15:03):
And they're like, can you tell me what time it's getting paid
today? Yeah, You know, our payments are
always 3:00, but that's them, you know, asking because they
require €7.00, which me and you would see as a small amount of
money now. Well, but to them you know this,
this is it's the difference. Between paying the phone bill.
(15:24):
Yeah, train home from the job that they've been at and things
like that. So yeah, I mean, tips are
really, really required within the hospitality industry.
And I'd go as far as to say it'skind of a lifeline to some
people because, you know, I've worked with across the industry
and what I love about the industry is you get to work with
everybody, right? So whether you think you're
bought, brought with a silver spoon in your mouth or you're
(15:46):
working with someone who's grownup tough, right?
I think it's a real, it levels the playing field a little bit
when you're standing next to them on the pass or you're
standing next to them on the floor running a shift, there is
at that point you're all the same.
So it doesn't matter. So it's quite 11 and I think
sometimes the gratuity service charge tip side of it hasn't
been fair and hasn't been level and I think or hasn't been
transparent. And I think what you guys are
(16:06):
doing and the other people in your realm are actually really
enabling these kids to see that money and get it.
I think that's the getting part is something something that
everybody overlooked a little bit.
And whether you're earning, you know, from a small cafe and
you're getting an extra 15 lbs aweek, you weren't getting that
15 lbs a week before, No. So that's an extra £60 a month,
yeah. OK, and that makes a.
Difference right yeah if you're in you know a more higher end
(16:29):
restaurant you're now earning anextra £400 a month yeah I mean
that's a huge difference in in money to go in your pocket
either end of the scale I. Just because it was interesting,
because one of the brands in theroom today who I aren't, just
whatever reason I expected to beon some kind of digital tipping
system wasn't. I was shocked, Ryan.
I was thinking because I was thinking, why wouldn't you?
(16:49):
Because that would be something that you can enable.
And there's lots of various reasons why people aren't
engaging with it or haven't doneit yet.
Most of it is about time. And budget, most of it's time
change, people saying we've got a system, it's worked for years
and we're happy with it, yeah, but then they don't see the
benefits of what technology can bring.
And like I said, whether it's our technology or one of our
peers, competitors, technology, they all bring something
(17:12):
different which with time you have to evolve.
And as we keep innovating, even as restauranteurs, you need to
evolve, whether it be technologyor food and.
I think technology's interesting, right?
Cuz we deal with a lot of different products and it's, I
mean, I'll be honest, it's really frustrating.
I was talking to you on the train about someone who we work
(17:33):
with at the moment, I'm just, and the operators, which can't
get it done, You know, we want to help our partners and we also
want to help the operators, but a lot of the products are
difficult to put in. But you're not like that, right?
The, the, the area we're talkingabout here in terms of solving a
problem, I think is a quick fix.That sounds really rude to you
because you've invested a lot oftime building a product, but I
think it's something you could put it and see quick ROI, which
(17:53):
is something that I don't think you can see around a lot of the
other products we talk about. Yeah, I mean, straight away it's
saving. You have been time from
traditional traditionally doing it is saving you on National
Insurance contributions. You know, again, you've got your
staff members which are happier people at work because they're
earning more money, they're providing better service, which
means your customers are happy, happier, which means they're
(18:14):
telling their friends what a great place this was.
They're coming back. So yeah.
So for me, that part, I feel like it's a no brainer, but
maybe I'm sitting in a part of one.
But I'm sure you agree with me. Yeah, I'll move on to the next
step. 45% of hostility decision makers don't understand the
tipping law correctly. And we talked a little bit about
this and this morning in our panel, we had a young lady in
(18:35):
the audience who asked a question saying, look, I've been
at the business on maternity forthree or four years, so I hadn't
been around. And she was asking about was it
holiday pay holiday? She talked about, and this is
not, this is not not understanding the legislation,
is it? This is understanding the
intricacies of just the way you manage employees.
Wages, employees, employment law, the tipping law and it's
complex. So many different factors that
(18:55):
can come into it and can give a decision on whether her
question, for example, was do wehave to allocate tips for those
time that they're on holiday? Well, it depends and there's so
many different factors to it and.
I think one of them came up in the tribunal, right.
I think we were talking, unfortunately I put it on the
lawyer on the panel, but I thinkand the outcome was what did
(19:15):
you? The The person who went to the
tribunal lost the case, but it could have gone the other way if
the business had been operating slightly.
Differently because it depends on what they set up in their
written policy, right? In terms of yeah.
Policy, how they're paying the tips, if they're coming through
payroll, National Insurance contributions are being charged
(19:38):
on those tips. So again, there's so many fine
details and a lot of it is interpretation as well.
So excuse me. So a lot of businesses are
interpreting the laws and interpreting, you know, the
Tipping Act, Yeah, the Employment Rights Act.
But actually they're not lawyerslike, you know, they're looking
at. Yeah, this is what I see it as.
(19:59):
And I'm happy to go this way. Yeah.
And it's always very fluffy whenit comes to.
And that and that's where I think someone called it the bad
actors this morning, I think that have taken advantage of of
before the legislation and probably now during the
legislation see when they can get it.
And that's one in two. I mean, from your survey that's
one in two people basically saying we don't fully understand
what's going on. So I think that's almost
(20:20):
positive sometimes because that actually means that you know
what actually that means the intention is good out there.
Probably in most places. They just need support in terms
of kind of going out there to market using technology or not
finding a way to run it in a transparent way.
Fascinating. And then 54% of we talked about
this Bill, 54% of customers don't trust that restaurants
distribute their tips fairly. Yeah, I think that's, is that a
(20:44):
legacy thing where we've where they've all these what the press
has done in the past talking about some of these poor
behaviors, I suppose. Yeah, I think it's the press and
I think it's been the norm for so many years where as a
customer generally you expect the business to keep a service
charge. That tip was a bit different if
you left it to a waiter, but if anything, you paid through a
credit card bill or it was automatically on the receipt.
(21:04):
You expected the business to keep that because that's
historic. Yeah.
So I think that will take a while to change and change
perception on that and. It's weird because I think the
actual paying culture, I will say these three things people
hate to do. You hate to wait at the front
door and you hate to, you know, wait to order and you also hate
to pay. They're the three things that
always people have always. It's always gotten people's
(21:26):
nerves and tech really hasn't really fake payments, I think is
the one that is getting solved. But sound, you know, which
includes the tipping culture at the end of it, the end of the
meal experience where you've hada great time, you want to get
out, you want to pay quick and you want to reward the girl or
boys look after you. I feel like that will do a lot
of good for the perception of this.
(21:46):
You know, this problem where people are saying that they
still don't think that employeesare behaving properly.
I don't know. Do you, do you agree or do you
think we're on a bit? Of a journey, No, I I do agree.
But there still needs to be a lot of education, Yeah.
And I think with the use of technology products like us or
others, then I think. You're very accommodating, yeah.
(22:07):
Or others. I think that that general
perception of it will change. But like I said earlier when you
said you're very accommodating, honestly, our product is for
some people, it's not for others.
Yeah. So there's nothing wrong with
our competitors is if you want to call them with their
products, they've got great products.
(22:28):
And so if we is it right for, isour product right for some
people? No, it's not, but it's right for
others, so you know, and. Hostility is huge, right?
The one thing that always shocksmy hostility is you think you
know the landscape and then someone pops up with 40 sites
from nowhere. You've never heard of them in
your life. And yeah.
Do you know what when I started this business and I we're
probably going off topic. Here, no, it doesn't matter.
(22:49):
The whole point of this podcast.Someone said, someone said to
me, oh, there's there was one other competitor when I first
started, Yeah. And then about two or three
decent ones came along. They're like I saturated.
There's four of you. I went how many credit card
like? Merchant services?
How many providers? Are there positive terms?
(23:10):
They're all doing OK. I can tell you there's 650 pause
suppliers in the Dojo. Retaliatory basic, Yeah, in the
UK and they've all got customers.
Yeah. So some have got more than
others. But yeah, but.
They're all in business, right? They're all, they're all making
a profit when I think and I think the market is and
especially because you can lean into I suppose service sector
outside of hospitality. Yeah, we do a lot in hair and
beauty. Yeah, other stuff obviously
(23:32):
we're, you know, all throughout Europe as well, so.
I mean, I frequent hair and beauty quite a lot, as you can
tell. That's what.
You do? Yeah.
Head massage. We were joking the texture.
Actually, most people were bold at the texture.
I don't know if it's something to do with technology, kind of.
It's doing everyone in and what?I'll give up.
Then, because I quite like my hair.
No, you're good. Don't touch it, you're fine.
And I suppose, and as you go down the road a little bit, and
we were talking this morning about this as well, what does it
(23:54):
look like in terms of product development, in terms of support
in tipping? Cuz I think you said you're a
level where you actually you're servicing the needs.
So yeah. So we will continue to evolve
and innovate, I suppose, but allof our core features and
functionality have been built and we are, we're not from the
(24:16):
hospitality industry. The biggest area where our
product is used at the moment ishospitality.
So we actually rely on hospitality businesses to tell
us what they want. So when we go and we speak to
them, that's what I said. We'll talk to people and they
go, yeah, but we needed to do this.
And that's then what starts US innovating and changing our
products slightly, making tweaksand stuff like that, because we
(24:39):
only know the basics and there'svery complex, you know, parts to
certain people's businesses out there and the way they do
currently do things and the way they don't want to move it.
And then we'll hear the same story from someone else and
someone else. And then, right, OK, we've got a
business case to build that intoour product last year.
And I'm quoting someone that's very, very good in payments.
That works for us, right? He told me a stat that last year
(25:04):
only in the UK, only 10% of transactions were cash.
Wow, I mean that and I'll get the.
Reference for you on. That no but that but that is cuz
whilst we all know obviously just personally right you walk
around with less cash in your. Pocket and I've got no cash you.
Don't even have a wallet anymoreI've.
Got my phone. Yeah, we have a phone and I was
reading about that though on thenews last night about the gang
(25:26):
they've just busted from the phone because it was crazy.
But our whole lives are on our phones.
But which obviously the direct attachments are tips, right?
Cuz there is no cash on the table anymore where we used to
get that. I think the old culture was
that, you know, you sit at the end of night and you tot up all
your tips in a box and then divvy them out type of thing.
So that bit is becoming, which makes the digital side of it
even more important than what you were saying for about the
(25:47):
€7.00. Yeah, becomes even more vital
because they're not getting the.Little they don't have it yeah
and there's a lot of businesses that stopped, especially in the
smaller scale, stopped allowing tips through credit card because
of the issues that they have by taking them, you know, running
it through running it through their business.
They're not accounting for properties.
They're being charged VAT on those tips, for example, they're
(26:10):
they're giving them out paying through payroll, they're paying
National Insurance contributionsand it's a headache from
segments. You know what no more credit
card tips we're done. I mean, and it happens in the
hair and beauty industry. Like they, they now lots of
hair, hair and beauty salons will not take credit card tips
for this reason. So then as a customer, you go to
a restaurant, you go and get your haircut.
You, you pay and you go, well, can I leave a tip?
(26:31):
Yeah. And they go, no, we can't take
credit card tips. And you go, well, I've got no
cash. So now that makes me feel
awkward. Yeah, there used to be a
disciplinary. So in college shows when I was
there, we had, we had 100 sites at this point.
There was a discipline we used to, we used to do an audit right
QA thing. We used to go around to an audit
site and if you saw anybody skipping the tip function on a
handheld terminal, they'd be disciplinary.
(26:51):
Yeah, I still see it today in bars.
I see them, they're pulling up on the E pass.
It's an integrated system. It comes up, said do you want a
tip? And they'd bend over and hit the
no button. And I always say, I always.
I'm already laughing because I said so.
Much I always say to the employee, why have you decided
that I don't want to leave you atip?
Well, I'm just pouring you a beer, so.
Yeah, and I and I think that's what's wrong with us sometimes,
(27:14):
that we're actually our own bloody word.
In this industry particularly, Ithink we are our own worst
enemy. I really do.
I think some of the policies andsome of the poor stuff that's
gone before us, we've made it really difficult to actually do
the right thing. Yeah.
And these kids can. I would more.
I think 9 times out of 10, if I buy a beer, like if I'm in, I
was in brewed log yesterday for a meeting.
I bought a beer. Not a beer, a Coke.
(27:35):
Sorry. It was 2:00.
I bought a Coke and I tipped them.
Yeah, because I just did. I don't know.
I didn't even know why it was particularly a great.
It wasn't a great porn, a Coke or whatever, but just because.
I think as well, yeah. I think, you know, there used to
be a time where you just go intoa bar and you'd have a few
drinks, then you'd ask a person behind the bar.
Yeah, normally quite young. They're normally quite younger
(27:56):
as well. At work in bars.
Do you want to drink? Yeah, right.
One for yourself, yeah. Yeah, nobody does that anymore.
So just give someone the option and again you'll have people
that moan and keyboard words go.I went to Wetherspoons and it
came up. Did I want to leave a tip?
I'm outraged there was a no button.
Yeah, do you know what? If they just go and look at the
news, there's other stuff to be outraged about.
(28:17):
Yeah, not that exactly so. If you've given someone the
choice, leave it up to them to decide whether they want to
leave you a tip or not. And so I will have to ask you
while I've got you here, what's your over?
What's your view on like industry type or how do you see
the industry? Is it buoyant?
I mean, because as you said, it's not, I mean you're only
into hostility kind of recently,I suppose that Fed say.
Yeah, hospitality really in the last two years, right and.
(28:40):
Do you see, because obviously wecame up with a messy pandemic,
obviously that's a while ago now, but do you see it becoming
buoyant again? Or how much do you see in terms
of kind of how much can you see in terms of growth or or lack
of? We see a, we did see a growth,
yeah. But that has started slowing
down. Yeah, we're still bringing on
(29:02):
new hospitality businesses. Unfortunately, we've also lost a
few, not because they're moving away from that product down to
close closures. So do I think it's going to
change anytime soon? No, I think a lot of hospitality
businesses will close, but I think lots of people will also
not see that side of it and not start and open up their own
hospitality businesses so. Yeah.
(29:24):
And I think it's, I do think a lot of our problems are
Evergreen, you know, and I thinkthat they, they tend to continue
in different ways, right? Technology will drive different
problems and different and on earth aspect, I mean the tipping
imagine without your product or without any of those type of
products where we'd be now, would the legislation have
happened potentially without theargument that actually we can
(29:46):
control this in a digital manner?
Because if it was going to be that legislation just surrounded
by manual processes, is it really worth the paper it's
written on? No, it's not.
So and I think that's where innovations driven good
legislation, which is very rare.Yeah, I think.
And so an AI is obviously here now and soon enough there'll be
legislation around AI. But the horse is kind of
(30:07):
altered, right? So it is super interesting to
you in terms of AI always have to ask because it's, it's we,
it's like a guaranteed question.Do you, do you put that into the
product? Is there any plan for developing
the product? Using there is plans to put it
in. It's not putting it in there.
Right, OK. And then?
Apart from a chat bot that's in the that's in our memory.
Everybody does the chat. Bot, but that's it.
I mean the most basic of AI, butyeah, apart from that, no, not
(30:30):
at the moment. Again, when we feel the need to
innovate with the use of AI and have it in there, I think we
will. But we're we're quite forward
thinking, I suppose customer based approach.
So we want a human on the end ofthe phone and a human to respond
and and. I think that's the right answer,
(30:51):
right? Because again, if you haven't
got a use case for AI or if you haven't got something, then
you're probably like that desperately.
Need. Why do I need to put?
In it's it's I actually want to punch myself in the face for
asking, but yeah, but I love. But I love AI, Love AI.
But is it right for the business?
Probably. No, and I think it's, but it's
the same conversation with a lotof the operators we work with.
Most of the tech partners are obviously chucking it all over
the place, but it's doing some really great innovation with it.
(31:12):
And then some you're wondering, why did you do that?
You didn't need to do it. Look super interesting.
I think if people want to reach out to you and they've heard you
today. And I think what's been
interesting is getting to know you over the last 24 hours
actually, because we've talked to you a bit, but not properly.
And I you're very humble, I mustsay about your business, which I
really, I think is really appreciate.
And I think that in a very competitive landscape, not just
in your world, but across all the categories in tech,
(31:34):
sometimes it gets a bit messy. I can get a bit silly.
And I actually think your approach is really nice.
So that's very cool. How do people get hold of you
guys and kind of say hi and justat least have a conversation?
Urock.com our team emails are onthere.
Can they bother you on LinkedIn or you can?
Bother me on LinkedIn all they want, yeah.
Look brilliant. Thank you, David.
Look, you've just done your first podcast and you're still.
Alive, still alive. It's painless.
(31:56):
That was David. Everybody from U Rock.
You can find them on the Marketplace and U rock.com and
we shall see you all next week. Thank you.
Welcome to the Tech and Toast podcast.
We are the home of hostility tech.
The Tech and Toast Podcast is brought to you today by our
friends at Lightspeed. The holidays are here and your
restaurant is buzzing. But Are you ready for the rush?
The festive season is make or break time for many restaurants
filled with non-stop tableside service, kitchen chaos and
complex reservations. But what if you had a secret
weapon? Well, Lightspeed is that weapon
(00:25):
is the ultimate point of sale and payments platform that helps
your team deliver seamless service and incredible
experiences. Imagine your staff taking orders
and payments right to the table with tableside or having your
front and back house perfectly In Sync during peak hours.
Wouldn't that be nice? Lightspeed gives you the tools
to not only survive the holidays, but truly shine, all
while saving time, reducing errors, and keeping guests
(00:45):
coming back for more. This season, let your tech do
the work for you. Close the year strong with
Lightspeed Restaurant. We're a digital tipping platform
effectively that integrates withpayment devices and stand alone
devices, whether that be AQR code or another electronic
device. A lot of the products are
difficult to put in, but you're not like that, right?
And I thought there must be an easier way.
(01:07):
And that's where it started. I get a notification when a tip
comes through. That actually tipping was very
much based on whether you had a good time or not.
Customers definitely see the benefits in it because again,
they've got Peace of Mind that those tips are going to that
staff. The difference with our system
is every employee has an app. 65% of staff rely on their tips
or service charges. You said gratuity.
(01:29):
British people generally are tipping more.
Welcome to the next episode, thesecond Test Podcast, and today
I'm delighted to be joined by David Dillon, CEO of You Rocked.
David, how are you? I'm very well.
Thank you. I'm going to point out that I've
David said to me last week, I hate public speaking, I hate
podcasts. And so today we've had him
public speaking an hour ago. Now we've got one of podcasts.
How's your day going? It's wonderful, yeah.
(01:49):
Throw me into the deep end. No, no, no.
You're more than welcome. You're in a safe space here, so
it's all good. Before we get into what we talk
about, like the product which wewere learning about this morning
and actually we opened about thecan of worms on the panel.
I thought we did. Yeah.
It was really interesting and I think that's a conversation we
should probably have. Tell us a little bit about you
and how you got to this point inyour career.
You were telling me a little bitabout your younger years before
down there, but tell us a littlebit about how you got to this
(02:10):
point. So always been a bit of a serial
entrepreneur. They have a problem solver
trying to make it good in this world, should we say?
And then I had one light bulb moment, I suppose, when my mum
took on a hospitality business. She's not from a hospitality
background. And most people would say, oh,
(02:32):
where, where did your business come from?
Especially people that are in this industry.
Oh, yeah, We're very emotive. We want to know why.
Yeah. And most people, most people
will say, well, I always used toask, do you get this tip?
And I was always faced with no, maybe sometimes.
So mine didn't really come from that side of it.
I was always a tipper. And I always used to ask that
(02:53):
question. But I didn't think of this idea
because of that. Yeah, mine was.
Again, I was in my mum's venue and she was working out the
tips, calculating them, looking at Excel spreadsheets, you know,
going through receipts and everything else.
And I said to her, how long are you going to be?
And she said, well, a little while.
Yeah. And I thought they must to be an
easier way. And that's where it started.
(03:15):
I then started looking into it and then my I myself opened up a
can of worms looking into trunk systems and skiing National
Insurance contributions and things like that.
And that's where the idea originated from.
So it was actually from an operator side and then came the
that came the employee and. And, and this morning we had a
(03:37):
couple of guests on our panel inmarket halls just about an hour
ago and we were talking and we had a lawyer, which is nice to
have a lawyer to on the panel. I've never had a lawyer on the
panel before or, or there's a Scouse that was, it was quite
worrying. Yeah, just just background
checks and all that that's happened.
And we were talking really aboutthe tipping act and it's a year
on since it began. And we were talking about kind
of the goods and bads and everything that's happened.
(03:59):
And I just so we can hear on thepodcast, where do you think
we've gone in a year? And kind of you have to
summarize kind of what it looks like from that, that lens.
How how's it looking out there? And I call it tipping land.
Yeah, you can call it tipping land, gratuity land, service
charge land. Yeah, I think from as we
discussed earlier, I think from 99.9% of the bigger operators
(04:20):
out there were probably being quite fair before anyway.
So I don't think things have changed much.
I think they may have evaluated some of their reporting and tech
they're using, but I think kind of their staff are still getting
their tips. Maybe it's not as transparent as
it should be, but they are stillgiving 100% of tips and service
(04:41):
charge to their staff. So on the smaller scale, let's
say owner operated businesses, how do I think that's going?
Not very well. I still think that you've
probably got from the people that we speak to only 20% that
actually care about the law. The other is it.
Is it? Care or is it no as in or is it
a bit of both like because you know?
(05:02):
A bit of both, but I think some of it's naivety as well as in I
don't want to know. That's a good point.
I think, yeah, when they're small businesses anyway, they're
with rising costs from everything they do.
Actually those tips and those service charges they were
charging that that's, that's good for their bottom line.
(05:23):
And it keeps their lights on rather than increasing their
menu prices a bit or getting ridof 1 member of staff.
And so I think they're kind of like we'll carry on doing what
we're doing until we. Someone tells us not to.
Get told not to. So from that end of the market,
yeah, yes, there are people thatare adapting, but I think
there's a lot of businesses thatare not and are not willing to
(05:44):
change. And before we get into the
actual product, I think Sharon from Lane Sevens on apartment,
she talked quite openly about actually the benefit of she said
you've visibly seen tips go up or you know, employees taking
more home in their pockets. So it's weird, isn't it?
Because I know what you're saying, a small business will
use it to kind of keep the lights on as you put.
It but then if you use a platform like us or our peers or
(06:05):
competitors out there, whatever you want to call them when
you're stating that 100% goes tothose staff members and you have
no control over those funds, you're then losing out so.
I see. You see it both ways, but also
they potentially increase their retention and potentially keep
these guys around. And so tell us a little bit
about the product, because I think this name, you said
(06:26):
there's two or three competitorsout there who are in this sphere
that that I know well of I suppose.
And you, what does the product do for layman's term?
Someone's listening. I've no clue about you, rock.
Tell us your best pitch, I suppose.
OK, best pitch. We're a digital tipping platform
effectively that integrates withpayment devices and stand alone
devices, whether that be AQR code or another electronic
(06:49):
device. So if you're in a restaurant and
you wanted to leave a tip, let'stake the one device as we call
it, which is our flagship product, takes the bill and the
tip. The server enters in the amount
for the bill, presents you the terminal.
Do you want to leave a tip? Yes, I do.
All staff get 100% of the tips labeled very clearly.
The customer presents their cards tapped as normal.
(07:12):
Nothing different for the customer.
Yeah, although they know that that says 100% of those tips go
to staff. Which eradicates that question
that we correct we're discussingearlier on today.
Straight away the difference with our system is every
employee has an app that's linked to that team or that
restaurant where they can see every single tip that's coming
(07:32):
into it. So you've got the transparency
there. They can then see the staff
members, they can add staff members, they can split tips via
hours worked, percentages, equally points based system.
They get a notification when a tip comes through.
So again, people get buzz out ofsomeone leaving £10 cash to you
on a table. Great, I've got a great tip.
(07:54):
But when we talked about, you know, transparency and how they
know how much is in the pot, if someone's tapping a card and
even if a bigger business is giving them all their tips,
they're not getting that feelinglike they're getting it, they're
not getting that excitement. We've just got a big tip.
Someone's just left us £250 or something like that.
With our system, it actually tells them as soon as that tip
(08:15):
goes through live and the whole team and.
How do they get that? Is it through a?
Is it through? App or is it inflation on their
phone? Yeah, through, through our app,
yeah. That's very cool because anyone
who's got a subscription business or runs their own
little like, you know, these little Etsy businesses people
have, right. When you get paid, you obviously
get notification on your phone and there is no better feeling
validation actually of what you do for a job than someone saying
(08:36):
there you go, well done. Thank you.
Yeah, that's pretty cool. And and is that and is that the
feedback you get generally then?So I suppose when you're because
you the transparency piece, I think if you 0 in on it is the
really big part is it both in terms of legislation and in
product that actually the peoplecan see what they're getting.
I mean, and it's an obvious question, but are you seeing or
I suppose are the customers seeing the benefits in that
pretty quickly? Customers do, yeah, customers
(08:57):
definitely see the benefits in it because again, they've got
Peace of Mind that those tips are going to that staff.
Generally, we see an increase intips using our software because
there is that Peace of Mind. So even if a customer didn't
want to ask that question, no one's asked that to us today
either. Do all customers want to ask
that question? They're probably thinking it,
(09:18):
but do they want to because theydon't know what they're gonna be
faced with. It's there for them.
So we we do definitely see an increase in tips and staff are
more comfortable with it as well.
And they're providing better service because they're earning
more money. And I think the tipping culture
in the UK, if I can call it a culture.
It is a culture. Yeah, it is, isn't it A growing
one? Yeah.
And and and obviously in the States, if anyone's travelled to
(09:39):
the US and been on holiday or lived there, that actually it's
a given, right. It's it's it's just done.
It's part of their service standard.
It's not, it's not even, I don'teven think it's a moot point,
right. It's nothing to be discussed,
but in the UKI definitely think from my years of working in the
industry that actually tipping was very much based on whether
you had a good time or not. Like very much based on
rewarding. If it sounds obvious, right?
But actually in America it's notlike that.
(10:00):
It's tipping because you've dined out, because you've dined
out where in the UK it's still very much a choice for the
customer. They're saying, OK, actually you
did do a good job. And the big difference here is
that I can reward you. I want to reward you who looked
after me or the chef that made that dish kind of thing.
So I think how do you feel aboutit?
Do you see an increase? I mean, you're seeing an
increase in terms of tips for the staff can see their tips
(10:20):
more, but is the culture, can I say improving that the right
word? Culture is definitely shifting.
I think tourism helps, but I also think, you know, British
people generally are tipping more.
Yeah. However, you do see a negativity
and one of the biggest, you know, responses you get when you
(10:42):
and I read all these kind of forums or, you know, articles
get posted online about tipping.And I read the comments and I
read the comments and the, the biggest thing you get and, and
the biggest comment you get frompeople that don't like tipping
is, well, their employers shouldpay them more.
Yeah, yeah, we're talking about hospitality businesses that have
got increasing costs left, rightand center.
(11:05):
They maybe could pay them a little bit more.
But remember, there's still someone that owns that business
that also needs to earn some money as well.
So they're paying them enough for the person to want to work
at that place of work. Your tip is showing your
gratitude or your, you know, your thanks to them.
So it's completely separate. It's not down to the employer,
especially now that you know 100% of those tips and
(11:26):
gratuities have to go to staff. And we, and we touched on this
morning, I think there's a perception issue, isn't there
with, with tipping. I think generally we talked
about the culture changing a little bit, but actually that
the the comments someone asked in the audience today, you know,
do you feel like we're not doingenough to tell to educate the
customer? Actually, yes, these tips are
now being distributed fairly viathe Tipping Act or via the
technology. Actually it's technology
(11:47):
empowered, I suppose, and I suppose backed up by the Tipping
Act, Yeah, because that's given us some legislation to lean back
on. But do you think we're doing
enough in terms of educating thecustomer on that?
I mean, you guys obviously doingthrough what you can.
I mean, I don't. I'm not sure putting up signs is
going to work everywhere. Yeah.
So you know, there's certain places where you can put up
signs as we discussed earlier, if you're in a Michelin star
(12:07):
restaurant, do absolutely, absolutely not.
I mean, if you're going to thoseMichelin star restaurants, you
know about service charging. Rates.
That was Brendan from JKS, wasn't it?
Just referring to the fact we'renot probably not going to put it
up in our Michelin star. Restaurants, yeah, and we've got
Michelin star restaurants that use us and they use, you know,
different verticals of payment for us as well.
So, you know, not our typical customer covers cost, they use
their own, which again is fine. But when we talk about
(12:31):
awareness, we had a lot of awareness and we had stuff in
the news for probably when we say a lot a week, a week and
maybe it was covered for a period of, I don't know, total
of 10 minutes. Is that awareness or is that
them just going we've done enough and we've pushed enough
PR behind it. That's our bit.
The actual, I think there's a lot of employees as we, as we
(12:54):
know that still aren't aware that they should be getting 100%
of their tips. There are a lot of businesses
that aren't aware that they should be passing across all of
their tips or they're not actually aware of the law.
They're like, you know, it's service charge, not tips.
It's the same thing now, same classification.
And then from a customer perspective, I think they are
the least like the, the, the, the least educated when it comes
(13:18):
to it because the target audience has been around
hospitality. So hospitality magazines,
journals and stuff like. That yeah, it's very much
LinkedIn focused. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, how many customers actually know there's a law
around tipping if you if you got25?
1000 Also, if you're shopping ona Saturday in a shopping center
and you go to this restaurant, it's not like you're a regular
there every week for the whole your life, right?
(13:38):
You're popping into wherever Popeyes and they want whatever,
but you don't really know. You're just eating.
Yeah, yeah. So your expectation is
different. So I think as always for the
hostility, we seem to come a bitfurther down the ladder to kind
of how well we educate people around it.
I'm sure if it was an NHS directive, it probably get more
cash. But definitely and and I think
it's, I think it's definitely anissue in perception, but you
(14:00):
guys have just done a bit a piece of research we have.
I'm going to I'm going to quote from your research.
You can quote from it because I have to have the numbers in my
head. OK, that's good.
Well, I'm going to help you. So yeah, so I mean, I think it
was released today actually, which is this isn't going out
today, but on the set 8th of October.
So, but there's, I think you surveyed over 250 employees and
150 decision makers across full service hostility venues and
(14:23):
some of the stats, these are great actually to have a
conversation. Around 65% of staff rely on
their tips or service charges. You said gratuity as part of
their income. We'll start with that one.
And that's, I think maybe that'sthe thing that customers don't
understand. If you forget the actual tipping
act and legislation, all that noise, the reality is these
girls and boys who work for us, who kind of are on the floor
serving us, they need that money.
Right. Do you know what?
(14:43):
It's quite heartbreaking becausewe have, I mean, we've got over
7000 members, we call them members, employees of
hospitality businesses now registered with Europe.
And we occasionally get calls and it's, you know, probably
every couple of weeks, whereas remember whether they might have
€7.00 in their pot. Yeah.
(15:03):
And they're like, can you tell me what time it's getting paid
today? Yeah, You know, our payments are
always 3:00, but that's them, you know, asking because they
require €7.00, which me and you would see as a small amount of
money now. Well, but to them you know this,
this is it's the difference. Between paying the phone bill.
(15:24):
Yeah, train home from the job that they've been at and things
like that. So yeah, I mean, tips are
really, really required within the hospitality industry.
And I'd go as far as to say it'skind of a lifeline to some
people because, you know, I've worked with across the industry
and what I love about the industry is you get to work with
everybody, right? So whether you think you're
bought, brought with a silver spoon in your mouth or you're
(15:46):
working with someone who's grownup tough, right?
I think it's a real, it levels the playing field a little bit
when you're standing next to them on the pass or you're
standing next to them on the floor running a shift, there is
at that point you're all the same.
So it doesn't matter. So it's quite 11 and I think
sometimes the gratuity service charge tip side of it hasn't
been fair and hasn't been level and I think or hasn't been
transparent. And I think what you guys are
(16:06):
doing and the other people in your realm are actually really
enabling these kids to see that money and get it.
I think that's the getting part is something something that
everybody overlooked a little bit.
And whether you're earning, you know, from a small cafe and
you're getting an extra 15 lbs aweek, you weren't getting that
15 lbs a week before, No. So that's an extra £60 a month,
yeah. OK, and that makes a.
Difference right yeah if you're in you know a more higher end
(16:29):
restaurant you're now earning anextra £400 a month yeah I mean
that's a huge difference in in money to go in your pocket
either end of the scale I. Just because it was interesting,
because one of the brands in theroom today who I aren't, just
whatever reason I expected to beon some kind of digital tipping
system wasn't. I was shocked, Ryan.
I was thinking because I was thinking, why wouldn't you?
(16:49):
Because that would be something that you can enable.
And there's lots of various reasons why people aren't
engaging with it or haven't doneit yet.
Most of it is about time. And budget, most of it's time
change, people saying we've got a system, it's worked for years
and we're happy with it, yeah, but then they don't see the
benefits of what technology can bring.
And like I said, whether it's our technology or one of our
peers, competitors, technology, they all bring something
(17:12):
different which with time you have to evolve.
And as we keep innovating, even as restauranteurs, you need to
evolve, whether it be technologyor food and.
I think technology's interesting, right?
Cuz we deal with a lot of different products and it's, I
mean, I'll be honest, it's really frustrating.
I was talking to you on the train about someone who we work
(17:33):
with at the moment, I'm just, and the operators, which can't
get it done, You know, we want to help our partners and we also
want to help the operators, but a lot of the products are
difficult to put in. But you're not like that, right?
The, the, the area we're talkingabout here in terms of solving a
problem, I think is a quick fix.That sounds really rude to you
because you've invested a lot oftime building a product, but I
think it's something you could put it and see quick ROI, which
(17:53):
is something that I don't think you can see around a lot of the
other products we talk about. Yeah, I mean, straight away it's
saving. You have been time from
traditional traditionally doing it is saving you on National
Insurance contributions. You know, again, you've got your
staff members which are happier people at work because they're
earning more money, they're providing better service, which
means your customers are happy, happier, which means they're
(18:14):
telling their friends what a great place this was.
They're coming back. So yeah.
So for me, that part, I feel like it's a no brainer, but
maybe I'm sitting in a part of one.
But I'm sure you agree with me. Yeah, I'll move on to the next
step. 45% of hostility decision makers don't understand the
tipping law correctly. And we talked a little bit about
this and this morning in our panel, we had a young lady in
(18:35):
the audience who asked a question saying, look, I've been
at the business on maternity forthree or four years, so I hadn't
been around. And she was asking about was it
holiday pay holiday? She talked about, and this is
not, this is not not understanding the legislation,
is it? This is understanding the
intricacies of just the way you manage employees.
Wages, employees, employment law, the tipping law and it's
complex. So many different factors that
(18:55):
can come into it and can give a decision on whether her
question, for example, was do wehave to allocate tips for those
time that they're on holiday? Well, it depends and there's so
many different factors to it and.
I think one of them came up in the tribunal, right.
I think we were talking, unfortunately I put it on the
lawyer on the panel, but I thinkand the outcome was what did
(19:15):
you? The The person who went to the
tribunal lost the case, but it could have gone the other way if
the business had been operating slightly.
Differently because it depends on what they set up in their
written policy, right? In terms of yeah.
Policy, how they're paying the tips, if they're coming through
payroll, National Insurance contributions are being charged
(19:38):
on those tips. So again, there's so many fine
details and a lot of it is interpretation as well.
So excuse me. So a lot of businesses are
interpreting the laws and interpreting, you know, the
Tipping Act, Yeah, the Employment Rights Act.
But actually they're not lawyerslike, you know, they're looking
at. Yeah, this is what I see it as.
(19:59):
And I'm happy to go this way. Yeah.
And it's always very fluffy whenit comes to.
And that and that's where I think someone called it the bad
actors this morning, I think that have taken advantage of of
before the legislation and probably now during the
legislation see when they can get it.
And that's one in two. I mean, from your survey that's
one in two people basically saying we don't fully understand
what's going on. So I think that's almost
(20:20):
positive sometimes because that actually means that you know
what actually that means the intention is good out there.
Probably in most places. They just need support in terms
of kind of going out there to market using technology or not
finding a way to run it in a transparent way.
Fascinating. And then 54% of we talked about
this Bill, 54% of customers don't trust that restaurants
distribute their tips fairly. Yeah, I think that's, is that a
(20:44):
legacy thing where we've where they've all these what the press
has done in the past talking about some of these poor
behaviors, I suppose. Yeah, I think it's the press and
I think it's been the norm for so many years where as a
customer generally you expect the business to keep a service
charge. That tip was a bit different if
you left it to a waiter, but if anything, you paid through a
credit card bill or it was automatically on the receipt.
(21:04):
You expected the business to keep that because that's
historic. Yeah.
So I think that will take a while to change and change
perception on that and. It's weird because I think the
actual paying culture, I will say these three things people
hate to do. You hate to wait at the front
door and you hate to, you know, wait to order and you also hate
to pay. They're the three things that
always people have always. It's always gotten people's
(21:26):
nerves and tech really hasn't really fake payments, I think is
the one that is getting solved. But sound, you know, which
includes the tipping culture at the end of it, the end of the
meal experience where you've hada great time, you want to get
out, you want to pay quick and you want to reward the girl or
boys look after you. I feel like that will do a lot
of good for the perception of this.
(21:46):
You know, this problem where people are saying that they
still don't think that employeesare behaving properly.
I don't know. Do you, do you agree or do you
think we're on a bit? Of a journey, No, I I do agree.
But there still needs to be a lot of education, Yeah.
And I think with the use of technology products like us or
others, then I think. You're very accommodating, yeah.
(22:07):
Or others. I think that that general
perception of it will change. But like I said earlier when you
said you're very accommodating, honestly, our product is for
some people, it's not for others.
Yeah. So there's nothing wrong with
our competitors is if you want to call them with their
products, they've got great products.
(22:28):
And so if we is it right for, isour product right for some
people? No, it's not, but it's right for
others, so you know, and. Hostility is huge, right?
The one thing that always shocksmy hostility is you think you
know the landscape and then someone pops up with 40 sites
from nowhere. You've never heard of them in
your life. And yeah.
Do you know what when I started this business and I we're
probably going off topic. Here, no, it doesn't matter.
(22:49):
The whole point of this podcast.Someone said, someone said to
me, oh, there's there was one other competitor when I first
started, Yeah. And then about two or three
decent ones came along. They're like I saturated.
There's four of you. I went how many credit card
like? Merchant services?
How many providers? Are there positive terms?
(23:10):
They're all doing OK. I can tell you there's 650 pause
suppliers in the Dojo. Retaliatory basic, Yeah, in the
UK and they've all got customers.
Yeah. So some have got more than
others. But yeah, but.
They're all in business, right? They're all, they're all making
a profit when I think and I think the market is and
especially because you can lean into I suppose service sector
outside of hospitality. Yeah, we do a lot in hair and
beauty. Yeah, other stuff obviously
(23:32):
we're, you know, all throughout Europe as well, so.
I mean, I frequent hair and beauty quite a lot, as you can
tell. That's what.
You do? Yeah.
Head massage. We were joking the texture.
Actually, most people were bold at the texture.
I don't know if it's something to do with technology, kind of.
It's doing everyone in and what?I'll give up.
Then, because I quite like my hair.
No, you're good. Don't touch it, you're fine.
And I suppose, and as you go down the road a little bit, and
we were talking this morning about this as well, what does it
(23:54):
look like in terms of product development, in terms of support
in tipping? Cuz I think you said you're a
level where you actually you're servicing the needs.
So yeah. So we will continue to evolve
and innovate, I suppose, but allof our core features and
functionality have been built and we are, we're not from the
(24:16):
hospitality industry. The biggest area where our
product is used at the moment ishospitality.
So we actually rely on hospitality businesses to tell
us what they want. So when we go and we speak to
them, that's what I said. We'll talk to people and they
go, yeah, but we needed to do this.
And that's then what starts US innovating and changing our
products slightly, making tweaksand stuff like that, because we
(24:39):
only know the basics and there'svery complex, you know, parts to
certain people's businesses out there and the way they do
currently do things and the way they don't want to move it.
And then we'll hear the same story from someone else and
someone else. And then, right, OK, we've got a
business case to build that intoour product last year.
And I'm quoting someone that's very, very good in payments.
That works for us, right? He told me a stat that last year
(25:04):
only in the UK, only 10% of transactions were cash.
Wow, I mean that and I'll get the.
Reference for you on. That no but that but that is cuz
whilst we all know obviously just personally right you walk
around with less cash in your. Pocket and I've got no cash you.
Don't even have a wallet anymoreI've.
Got my phone. Yeah, we have a phone and I was
reading about that though on thenews last night about the gang
(25:26):
they've just busted from the phone because it was crazy.
But our whole lives are on our phones.
But which obviously the direct attachments are tips, right?
Cuz there is no cash on the table anymore where we used to
get that. I think the old culture was
that, you know, you sit at the end of night and you tot up all
your tips in a box and then divvy them out type of thing.
So that bit is becoming, which makes the digital side of it
even more important than what you were saying for about the
(25:47):
€7.00. Yeah, becomes even more vital
because they're not getting the.Little they don't have it yeah
and there's a lot of businesses that stopped, especially in the
smaller scale, stopped allowing tips through credit card because
of the issues that they have by taking them, you know, running
it through running it through their business.
They're not accounting for properties.
They're being charged VAT on those tips, for example, they're
(26:10):
they're giving them out paying through payroll, they're paying
National Insurance contributionsand it's a headache from
segments. You know what no more credit
card tips we're done. I mean, and it happens in the
hair and beauty industry. Like they, they now lots of
hair, hair and beauty salons will not take credit card tips
for this reason. So then as a customer, you go to
a restaurant, you go and get your haircut.
You, you pay and you go, well, can I leave a tip?
(26:31):
Yeah. And they go, no, we can't take
credit card tips. And you go, well, I've got no
cash. So now that makes me feel
awkward. Yeah, there used to be a
disciplinary. So in college shows when I was
there, we had, we had 100 sites at this point.
There was a discipline we used to, we used to do an audit right
QA thing. We used to go around to an audit
site and if you saw anybody skipping the tip function on a
handheld terminal, they'd be disciplinary.
(26:51):
Yeah, I still see it today in bars.
I see them, they're pulling up on the E pass.
It's an integrated system. It comes up, said do you want a
tip? And they'd bend over and hit the
no button. And I always say, I always.
I'm already laughing because I said so.
Much I always say to the employee, why have you decided
that I don't want to leave you atip?
Well, I'm just pouring you a beer, so.
Yeah, and I and I think that's what's wrong with us sometimes,
(27:14):
that we're actually our own bloody word.
In this industry particularly, Ithink we are our own worst
enemy. I really do.
I think some of the policies andsome of the poor stuff that's
gone before us, we've made it really difficult to actually do
the right thing. Yeah.
And these kids can. I would more.
I think 9 times out of 10, if I buy a beer, like if I'm in, I
was in brewed log yesterday for a meeting.
I bought a beer. Not a beer, a Coke.
(27:35):
Sorry. It was 2:00.
I bought a Coke and I tipped them.
Yeah, because I just did. I don't know.
I didn't even know why it was particularly a great.
It wasn't a great porn, a Coke or whatever, but just because.
I think as well, yeah. I think, you know, there used to
be a time where you just go intoa bar and you'd have a few
drinks, then you'd ask a person behind the bar.
Yeah, normally quite young. They're normally quite younger
(27:56):
as well. At work in bars.
Do you want to drink? Yeah, right.
One for yourself, yeah. Yeah, nobody does that anymore.
So just give someone the option and again you'll have people
that moan and keyboard words go.I went to Wetherspoons and it
came up. Did I want to leave a tip?
I'm outraged there was a no button.
Yeah, do you know what? If they just go and look at the
news, there's other stuff to be outraged about.
(28:17):
Yeah, not that exactly so. If you've given someone the
choice, leave it up to them to decide whether they want to
leave you a tip or not. And so I will have to ask you
while I've got you here, what's your over?
What's your view on like industry type or how do you see
the industry? Is it buoyant?
I mean, because as you said, it's not, I mean you're only
into hostility kind of recently,I suppose that Fed say.
Yeah, hospitality really in the last two years, right and.
(28:40):
Do you see, because obviously wecame up with a messy pandemic,
obviously that's a while ago now, but do you see it becoming
buoyant again? Or how much do you see in terms
of kind of how much can you see in terms of growth or or lack
of? We see a, we did see a growth,
yeah. But that has started slowing
down. Yeah, we're still bringing on
(29:02):
new hospitality businesses. Unfortunately, we've also lost a
few, not because they're moving away from that product down to
close closures. So do I think it's going to
change anytime soon? No, I think a lot of hospitality
businesses will close, but I think lots of people will also
not see that side of it and not start and open up their own
hospitality businesses so. Yeah.
(29:24):
And I think it's, I do think a lot of our problems are
Evergreen, you know, and I thinkthat they, they tend to continue
in different ways, right? Technology will drive different
problems and different and on earth aspect, I mean the tipping
imagine without your product or without any of those type of
products where we'd be now, would the legislation have
happened potentially without theargument that actually we can
(29:46):
control this in a digital manner?
Because if it was going to be that legislation just surrounded
by manual processes, is it really worth the paper it's
written on? No, it's not.
So and I think that's where innovations driven good
legislation, which is very rare.Yeah, I think.
And so an AI is obviously here now and soon enough there'll be
legislation around AI. But the horse is kind of
(30:07):
altered, right? So it is super interesting to
you in terms of AI always have to ask because it's, it's we,
it's like a guaranteed question.Do you, do you put that into the
product? Is there any plan for developing
the product? Using there is plans to put it
in. It's not putting it in there.
Right, OK. And then?
Apart from a chat bot that's in the that's in our memory.
Everybody does the chat. Bot, but that's it.
I mean the most basic of AI, butyeah, apart from that, no, not
(30:30):
at the moment. Again, when we feel the need to
innovate with the use of AI and have it in there, I think we
will. But we're we're quite forward
thinking, I suppose customer based approach.
So we want a human on the end ofthe phone and a human to respond
and and. I think that's the right answer,
(30:51):
right? Because again, if you haven't
got a use case for AI or if you haven't got something, then
you're probably like that desperately.
Need. Why do I need to put?
In it's it's I actually want to punch myself in the face for
asking, but yeah, but I love. But I love AI, Love AI.
But is it right for the business?
Probably. No, and I think it's, but it's
the same conversation with a lotof the operators we work with.
Most of the tech partners are obviously chucking it all over
the place, but it's doing some really great innovation with it.
(31:12):
And then some you're wondering, why did you do that?
You didn't need to do it. Look super interesting.
I think if people want to reach out to you and they've heard you
today. And I think what's been
interesting is getting to know you over the last 24 hours
actually, because we've talked to you a bit, but not properly.
And I you're very humble, I mustsay about your business, which I
really, I think is really appreciate.
And I think that in a very competitive landscape, not just
in your world, but across all the categories in tech,
(31:34):
sometimes it gets a bit messy. I can get a bit silly.
And I actually think your approach is really nice.
So that's very cool. How do people get hold of you
guys and kind of say hi and justat least have a conversation?
Urock.com our team emails are onthere.
Can they bother you on LinkedIn or you can?
Bother me on LinkedIn all they want, yeah.
Look brilliant. Thank you, David.
Look, you've just done your first podcast and you're still.
Alive, still alive. It's painless.
(31:56):
That was David. Everybody from U Rock.
You can find them on the Marketplace and U rock.com and
we shall see you all next week. Thank you.
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