From Bacon Butties to Brand Building – Le Swine x 93FT

This week, Chris Fletcher is joined by two guests with serious flavour and flair: James Packham, founder of cult bacon sandwich brand Le Swine, and Nick Clark, founder and MD of Sheffield-based creative studio 93FT. What starts with a bacon butty turns into a masterclass in brand building, creative bravery, and how friendship can drive business success.

Together, they unwrap:

• How a stolen sandwich sparked a business

• Turning a street food truck into a brand with national reach

• Designing a café that feels nostalgic and new

• Why great design is more than just visuals – it’s storytelling

• The rise of ‘hole-in-the-wall’ dining and micro-concepts

• Working with heritage suppliers and building guest experiences that last

Expect plenty of laughs, some seriously tasty storytelling, and honest chat about scaling without selling out.

🔥 Why Listen?

Whether you’re running one site or rolling out fifty, this is a must-listen for anyone building a hospitality brand from the ground up.

🛠️ Guests:

• James Packham, Founder, Le Swine

• Nick Clark, Founder & MD, 93FT

🍳 Highlights:

• The “bacon epiphany” moment in Clerkenwell

• Designing with intention: from colour palettes to reclaimed floors

• Navigating Covid with care kits and delivery hacks

• The importance of supplier relationships in hospitality storytelling

• Becoming an employee-owned creative agency

📦 Try it yourself:

Head to leswine.co.uk to grab a bacon kit or visit the café in East Sheen.

Design inspo? Visit 93ft.com or connect with Nick Clark on LinkedIn.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Welcome to Tech and Toast podcast, the show that connects
hospitality with technology one slice at a time.
I'm your host, Chris Fletcher, and each week we're joined by
the sharpest minds in the industry, from operators and
founders to tech pioneers, to uncover the tools, trends and
stories shaping the future of hospitality.
This season is brought to you byDeliver Act, the trusted order
management platform helping thousands of hostility
businesses streamline service, reduce errors and serve up

(00:23):
better guest experiences. Whether you're scaling dark
kitchens or managing multiple brands, Deliberate helps you
connect your channels and power performance.
All right, let's get to it coming up on this week's Tech on
Toast podcast. And I was like, James, this is
referencing like streaky bacon. And he's like.
Yeah, something like you look atthe cab and it looks like a
rasher of bacon. Yeah, so I left uni and started

(00:47):
the business with my brother-in-law 20 years ago.
Yeah, it was definitely all about the bacon sandwich for
sure. When you've got a good story,
it's quite easy to then think about all the elements that make
up that story and then put that together into a box.
Packaging, wrap, labels, booklets.
Overnight it went from like me and my dad driving around

(01:07):
London. It's like being able to reach
the top of Scotland the next day.
Yeah, I've never seen anyone so terrified in my life.
And really home down. What makes the swine the swine?
I mean, obviously it's got an incredible name.
Yeah. Yeah, well, it's really easy.
I mean, we just open ChatGPT because keeping people happy and

(01:27):
working with people that you like is is part.
Of it, welcome to the Tech and Toast podcast.
And this week I'm delighted to be joined by two guests in
Volvos today, which is going to test me big time.
I'm with James Packham, founder of That's Fine.
James, how are you? Yeah, very well.
Thank you. Nice to meet you again, but in
person around our studio. And also Nick Clark, founder and
MD of 93 Feet. Hi, You don't have 93 feet, no.

(01:49):
There's no well 93 FT 93 feet. What do you say is?
How do you say it? Is it well?
We're going. We're gonna go with 93 FT.
So, you know, if you ever listento this podcast every week, my
the biggest struggle I have is doing the announcement of who's
in the studio with me and I get their names wrong or their
company name wrong. So it's it's it's a theme, so
it's fine. So FTFT.
OK, well, look, before we get into Anthem, we'd better explain

(02:09):
what you guys do. So we start with you.
Nick, do you want to explain F93FT?
Yeah, for sure. So we are a design studio based
up in Sheffield. This year is our 20th year in
business and we've got an amazing team of 15 creatives
ranging from brand specialists, digital tech developers and

(02:32):
interior designers and architects.
Wow. And and your background is.
So I left uni and started the business with my brother-in-law
20 years ago. So yeah, I've literally come
straight from uni into the industry and learnt everything
off the back of just doing the data.
That's fascinating. And I always talk about
networking these things and you meet people through various

(02:54):
people. But Andy Maynard, who's I think
I can announce now that he's thenew IT director.
I was going to say Cafe Uno, butCafe Nero.
So Andy introduced us, but it's it's been brilliant.
And tell me James, what about you?
Let's talk a little bit about because I've experienced your
product first hand, which you kindly sent me.
But tell everyone what you do. Yeah, so this one was originally
started as a street food truck based around here, actually near

(03:15):
Liverpool Street Station, and then went to do a lot of
festivals as well in the summer,private catering.
And then eventually I opened ourfirst bricks and mortar site in
East Shane like a old calf. Wow, like.
A greasy spoon. Like a celebration of a greasy
spoon. And tell because the product is
fascinating, right? Basically because I was talking
when I worked, I worked at pie ministers.
I'm sure you're aware. I've mentioned it a lot

(03:37):
previously. And actually the simplicity of
what they did was their success because it was just pie, right?
And they were, they're always asking people, or people were
asking them to put grills and put extract and do these
different things, do chips or whatever it was or do extras
with the pies. But they just stuck to their
guns. And you're not that dissimilar
on the fact that you are really obsessed with this one British
classic. Yeah, it was definitely all
about the the bacon sandwich forsure.

(03:58):
And it was that it was that way for like 10 years.
And it was all about just them making it the very best it can
be, basically by showing every single component like a lot of
love and care. Yeah.
And, and and you're, I think youtold me the story.
There was a was it a chef you were working with or in a
previous life? Not previous life, no.
You're reincarnated. Yeah, so my background is

(04:20):
chefing and so I used to work for a guy called Bruno Lu Bay in
Clarkenwell Place called Bistro Bruno Lu Bay.
And that's what it says on the tin, yeah.
Exactly that. And yeah, it was just one night.
I randomly went down to the pastry kitchen downstairs and he
was there making some like baconbutter whipping, whipping bacon
fat into normal butter and and then making these like milk,

(04:43):
milk buns and, and there was just like a little menu on the
side. And it said for the, all the
boutique hotels in the area the next day.
And it said teas, coffees and Bruno's amazing bacon roll.
And so after everything else, saw this guy do all like the
more like complex stuff. I was like, what is he going to
do to do something as simple as a bacon sandwich?
And so I got myself into work early the next morning and went

(05:03):
over to the townhouse where the meeting was being held and there
was just one sandwich left. And I was just like, waft it
down, loved it. And then he came in later that
morning. He'd made himself one extra.
And so I'd taken his extra signing you.
Stole it didn't. You.
I stole it, yeah. That's like that episode of
Friends when he Ross's sandwich.But, and if anyone's ever seen

(05:23):
that, but yeah. Yeah, and he just, he just, he
just come bursting in later thatmorning and he was just like who
the like hell someone bacon sandwich someone like pointed
towards me and he come up went crazy at me and was like that
was my that was my latest creation blah, blah blah and had
a go at me then come back 50 minutes later and just like

(05:44):
asked me so how was it? And.
Chef's ego. Yeah.
And I think this obviously for someone who's like grown up on
bacon sandwiches, tasted 1,000,000 bacon sandwiches, to
taste one like that was just like incredimized.
And then he walked away and he just said a bit of a throw away
comment and he just went, oh, just imagine showing everybody
how good a bacon sandwich can be.
And I was just like, yeah, I love that.

(06:07):
That's and I've had so I can speak from proof.
I've had you sent me a kit and and weirdly we've been out for a
week or Kerry had been to excusemy missus, but at Butlins Garage
weekend. It's a thing in Wales, down in
Western or something. It was and she went to this and
she came back and your package was sitting on the table.
I've been to see my mum in Liverpool and we came back and
it was sitting there. She went, what's that?

(06:27):
And I was like, oh, it's a baconbooty.
She's like make it now. And yeah, I'm not.
So I'm not just saying it's for drunk people, but it was
absolutely hit the spot. I remember her saying after just
more of them, just bring them every every Friday morning or
Saturday morning. So and how do you guys know each
other then? Because how?
Where's the connect here or are you just mates?
Well definitely mates, but we first connected through Jason at

(06:50):
the Pilgrim Hotel in Paddington,so that was a hotel project that
93 FT worked on. I did not know that.
Yeah. Is that why we met there that
day? Or do I pick the Pilgrim?
Yeah, no, I, I, I framed the whole thing.
That's why you meant. That look at what I did.
Yeah, look at what I did. And at that point I think James

(07:12):
was working with Jason to provide Bacon Buddies for the
hotel that had just opened up. So yeah, he need a little bit of
help on a project which actuallywe looked back at some of our
emails this morning, goes right back to like January 2018. 20.
17 Yeah. And and we were working on a
little packaging project at the time for Like a Tomato.

(07:35):
Yeah, Bacon. Bloody Mary's.
Bloody Mary kind of thing, Yeah.Anyway, that eventually led to
us working on your brand, looking at some packaging design
during COVID to create those bacon buddy boxes, I think.
How many you've sold now? About 40,000.
Yeah, yeah. And I've got, I mean, I'll put a
picture on the, on the well, you'll send me a nice picture,

(07:56):
I'm sure. But I have my own picture which
I've been sharing everywhere of the packaging.
And it, I, I think it's one of the reasons why hostility brands
lose that when you're trying to get off premise and write from
on premise and still carry out the brand and still deliver the
brand. I think yours is executed.
And I'm just saying this becauseyou're here.
It's the reason I put it on Instagram and everywhere is
because I just thought this looks ace.
And I just thought it really translated what you were

(08:19):
achieving indoors, outdoors. I just, I thought it was really
smart. Is that quite a difficult thing
to achieve from a branding? Because I know operationally
it's not easy to get it right when you're putting something on
a bike or putting something through the post.
What's it like from a brand perspective when you're trying
to? Yeah, well, I mean, James has
such a great, isn't he? So when you've got a good story,
it's quite easy to then think about all the elements that make

(08:39):
up that story and then put that together into a box, packaging,
wrap, labels, booklet, websites,you know, everything to do with
that product and that story and that journey.
So yeah, it's pretty straightforward.
And of course, quality of the product is why we were really
interested in it because it's anamazing product, great

(09:00):
ingredients and working with thefounder as well, for which we do
so much of as well in 93 feats day-to-day.
So yeah, really heroing out those messages and and that
provenance, that authenticity isa key part of how we've made
that a success. And I think that then has
resonated through your audience,James, into why it's been such a

(09:23):
good success and people love it.And and is it demand that's
driven the kind of so were you on premise?
I know you had the food truck first, but you were on premise
at the start. What is was it the demand that
drove you onto delivery and looking at your own do you do it
through Uber and all the. Aggregates as well.
Definitely not. It was more like acts against
the wall during COVID, really. It was like, yeah, we got shut
down on the on the Thursday whenSpitterfield said they do not

(09:45):
come back to work tomorrow, don't come back to your trucks
tomorrow. You know you.
Don't think. And that's the thing, I was
sitting in prime minister's headoffice that day on March,
whenever it was 20th and I saw we had Boris on the TV's all
around the head office and everyone's looked at each other
like game over. Like literally like that.
That's it kind of thing. What do we do now?
You don't think about you guys who are physically attached to
that immediately. So literally it's immediate,

(10:06):
right? It was done.
Yeah, yeah. I think we had a massive like
deep clean of EU. It was in Spitzerfield's market
I think on the Thursday and saidright, no one come.
I think a few traders are like trying to cling onto the trade
because most of the workforce had like sort of like slowly
started staying at home. But there's a few of us just on
the side of the market like to cling onto the few punters that
were left. The brave ones.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, yeah, they shut us

(10:26):
down on the Thursday. We had a deep, big, deep clean
and we just went to the pub and I was just like to, to that
small team. And I was like, I'm not too sure
what's going to happen now. Like, you know, bear with me,
whatever. And, and I just, I think I just
remember packing up some kits for people for Valentine's one
year and I thought, Oh yeah, like take home.
And then by the by the Saturday,I was like hand delivering them

(10:47):
myself, just like just by Instagram and like a Google
form. It was a nightmare.
And then eventually my dad came in and was like split in London
up into different days and we just like hand delivering them.
And then randomly DPD got in contact via someone's personal
account. Do you want us to take care of
your deliveries? And I was just like, yes.
Please. And then from like overnight, it

(11:09):
went from like me and my dad driving around London.
It's like being able to reach the top of Scotland the next
day. And then that's when I got in
touch with Nick and said, like, we need to make this take this
room, like this Survival kit to more about this gift experience.
It's like real like nice treat for everyone, like weekend
treat, nice gift experience. And obviously COVID was a really
nice time to send people a treat, yeah.

(11:32):
And so that's when obviously Nick just took the whole
experience to another level. And are you involved in the
physical site as well or is thatnot you guys get involved in
design there as well? Yeah.
So what makes our team so special is you can create a
brand, put it online and then create a physical environment as
well. So.
So what came first? Sorry, did the calf come after

(11:53):
the? Yeah, the.
Brand came first. But your desire for a cafe was
like one of the first things. That you spoke about, that was
our first ever conversation, right?
OK. Yeah.
So to be on that journey now where we've worked on your
brand, delivered your e-commercewebsite and then created your
cafe is like incredible. So the whole thing just runs as
a sort of thread through those 7-8 years of working together.

(12:16):
So it's. Quite brave though, right?
Because I imagine you're not free, you know, and it's quite
brave, I think, for an operator at that embryotic level where
you're quite early doors to, to invest because I totally
encourage it. Because I actually think that
when you're building a brand andhave built a few recently, but
you have to go all in, right? I think when you, because some
people have, I think have brilliant brands that never see

(12:37):
the light of day, that never getthe credit they deserve or never
get the expansion they deserve. But I think if you're brave and
you work with experts, I think that all of a sudden you're
unlocking that bit of extra growth.
And I'm sure there's some risk along the way, right?
You're thinking, oh God, I've got to invest in this to make it
happen. But the proof is in the pudding,
right? It looks like it was worth it.
Yeah, for sure. There's some things like even
like the bacon guy, when you know the eight page booklet that

(13:00):
you get with the milk, you get little things like that.
Christ, that seems like a lot ofmoney for this booklet.
But now I look at it, you know, 50,000 plus kits later.
How much does that like how muchdoes that cost me?
And like everybody mentions it, this beautiful little booklet
that tells you about the story. We've still got it.
My son, my daughter has a littlecooking file.
When we had the pandemic and we used to buy it, there was a, I
can't what it's called, and it was a bakery.

(13:21):
It was like you could order a recipe a week.
So every week she got a new recipe and we cooked it
together. It was brilliant, right?
And she has your guide in there alongside the brownies.
Nothing else, right, Because that's she loves doing it.
And it's like kind of a nice memory for us when we were spent
when I didn't have a job for a while.
So it was nice. So we were just hanging out
together. And I think that those kind of
things. I, I agree, I think and must you
must see it as well. An initial.
I know you work with much biggerbrands as well in terms of some

(13:44):
familiar High Street names. I don't know if you can mention
them, but you must see that kindof, I suppose the not fear, but
that that want to do more. But like, how do you kind of
bring these people on the journey?
Because you've got to kind of turn that in in the founder's
head. You've got to turn that idea
into something physical. It must be.
It must be a tricky part of justgetting people over the line.
Well, even just meeting James this morning and I scared him

(14:05):
half to. Death.
Why did you give him another invoice?
Hi, James, welcome to the podcast.
Yeah, but yeah, we, we often joke about this actually,
because it was a really fun day.But I'd invited James up to the
night 3 feet studio to do like acreate a brainstorm kind of
session. Have a look at some reference

(14:27):
imagery that he'd put together. Get his thoughts.
Well, I'd encourage him to get his thoughts down on paper or
certainly on the screen. And yeah, I've never seen anyone
so terrified in my life in a design meeting, you know, with a
bunch of of people who really just want to help get him to the
next level. So yeah, we, we just basically

(14:48):
had a conversation. We showed him other things that
we thought would be a great fit,good ideas to try, and really
honed down what makes less wine,less wine.
I mean, obviously it's got an incredible name and we just knew
it had the potential to look better, sound better, be better.
And it was just a process of elevating that through beautiful

(15:08):
typography, great colours that kind of reference the sage green
of the little packets of sage that you get in that box, and
also like a really great delicious pink kind of colour
that tuned into the bacon product itself.
So all of a sudden you've got an.
Identity. Yeah, fascinating, isn't it?
Because as a consumer you just don't look at that detail.

(15:30):
But obviously it's there becauseit makes sense to me when it
arrives. But I would never would have put
the sage into the colour in the in the bed.
It's it's so smart. Yeah, it's, well, for us, it's
about putting meaning into our clients, brands and our
projects. And, you know, even today we
looked at the counter in the cafe, which is made from reclaim
floorboards, and I was like, James, this is referencing like
streaky bacon. And he's like.

(15:51):
Yeah, and like, you look at the cab and it looks like a rasher
of bacon. Yeah.
So, you know, lots of little details are in there and I think
that is what we do as a creativeteam.
So, well, we really think about it as part of the bigger vision
and the delivery of it. Where'd you get your inspiration
from? I'm not sticking on my questions
here, I'm really sorry, but I'm just interested where do you

(16:13):
stick? Where do you find your
inspiration from? Because obviously you work with
multiple customers, what keeps you, I suppose it must be hard
to kind of stay relevant, be looking at new things all the
time or be looking at new anglesor is it not that is it looking
deeper into the actual, I think.Yeah, the, the team, and I'm
going to include, obviously myself into that, You know,
we're constantly looking at stuff.
Yeah. So, yeah, throughout the day,

(16:35):
when you're not asleep, you're just bombarded quietly with all
of these reference points, you know, you know, places you've
been, places you love, things you've talked about.
And it's really a a case of justbringing all of that together.
But I wouldn't say there's one place we look for our
inspiration. But you know, when you've got 15
people in the team, there's there's loads of things

(16:55):
happening all the time. So yeah, that's what makes it so
special because you can be sat with a web developer looking at
an interior and they just say, well, what about this as an
idea? And suddenly it's happening.
You know, it's alive, it's alive.
So that is such a special thing about what we do in our studio.
So really working collaboratively, backing the

(17:16):
idea, being vested into it, Yeah, that's genuinely what we
love doing day-to-day. And part of it is the, and we
talked when I first met you guys, you talked in the Pilgrim,
which is a lovely place in Paddington, by the way, if you
haven't been there, it's just around the corner of Prade St.
We talked about the calf culture, I suppose, or the, the,
the nature. And I was taught someone was
asking me the other day they wanted to do a, we were looking

(17:38):
at do the launch of our magazine, the spread.
We wanted to do it in a cafe environment actually.
And this one's probably perfect.We can talk about that
afterwards. But yeah, we were talking about
how we, that calf culture is growing again, or people trying
to support that growth again. How important is that in your
kind of brand makeup? And you know, how did you guys
make that happen? Yes, super important to me
because I, I think, well, like Nick said, 2017 was the first

(18:01):
time we started talking about doing a calf and then things
changed. Obviously now I've done it
locally instead of up here, but I think I grew up in calfs with
my dad. I was.
Gonna say is it in your DNA? Yeah, 100.
Percent Yeah, my dad for sure has always worked in and around
town. Like we used to call him like
SAT Dad because he just knows every he knows every like back
street alley CAF, like sandwich bar in London because he's

(18:22):
always worked in town. And so I always used to go to
work with him and he used to take me to these little greasy
spoons or old Italian places just where just where there was
like an energy in there, you know, cab drivers, like bankers,
like everybody. It was for me like a CAF is for
everyone, right? And there's just, there's a
total like I'm stuffing there, some pretentiousness to it.
And that's definitely what we'vetried to instead of the swine at

(18:44):
the cafe. It's like it's for everyone.
Everyone's welcome and. Yeah, that that level.
I mean, at Hard Rock we used to have a phrase called love or
serve, all right. And it was all about it really
lived within the business and wewe really everybody was welcome.
The Bank of the Bank of the binman didn't matter, right.
And it was about and back in the70s, they designed that brand
and it was just the way they it was so smart, but outwardly

(19:04):
looking in it was a cheesy burger joint, right.
But inside working for them was very different.
It was very much about everyone is welcome.
We live those values. How do you take from a from a
your point of view, how do you take someone who's saying, you
know, I want to kind of bring back, not reinvent the greasy
spoons. You don't need to right, but
bring it back in a way that is relevant to James's brand.
How hard is that to do? I mean, you talk about your team

(19:24):
also all come together, work on this, but how, how invested do
you have to get into that I suppose to make that happen?
Yeah, well, I mean, the fact again, we've known each other
for such a long time, like we'rekind of in so in tune with what
is needed and, yeah, developing a new cafe in 2024, something
when it opened, wasn't it? Yeah.

(19:46):
You know, for us, a lot of it's down to the right frontage.
So like, have you got presents on the street?
If not, how do we create that? Is it a corner location or is
it? A is that a corner?
Yeah, yeah. It looks like an end, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, we wanted to throw
some great bright colour that felt really in keeping with the

(20:07):
brand. So it's got like a sort of, it's
terrible for a fruit food brand.It's like an arsenic green
colour like colour. But you know, it works so well
because people noticed it and then we wanted to bring back
that neon sign. Yeah, kind of culture, which is,
you know, rapidly growing out with the invent of LED.

(20:29):
So something actually, we're really passionate and personally
myself, we're really passionate about bringing neon signs back
onto shop fronts because, well, I'm going to go down a wormhole
here, but. We're going with you.
Carry on. You can, you know, they're
recyclable. They're made out of glass, bit
of metal and air, and it's a really kind of natural product

(20:52):
from that perspective, you know,there's.
Is it purely down to why do you think it is disappearing?
Is it down to cost and. Ease of it, it is cheaper, but
you've got to think like essentially what you've got with
a neon light is fire in the tube.
And we all love a campfire and, you know, fire in a cozy night.
And that's why humans love looking at neon, because it's

(21:13):
bright, it it dazzles our eyes and, you know, interests us.
Whereas you don't get that with LED.
It's like it's synthetic versionof so and plus when you've got
five years learning a skill suchas neon making, then I just want
to support that, you know, you've got young people learning
that skill up in Wakefield. There's only a few right in the
country. Literally only a few in the a

(21:34):
big neon maker in London actually has disappeared.
So yeah, running little projectslike that through 93 feet up to
Neon workshops up in Wakefield was just an important part of
the tick list for me cuz it answers so much of that
authentic look and feel. So you also have some means what
you're doing there, and I know alot of people who do all kinds

(21:55):
of different things, actually having that purpose driven
behind you as much as commerciality and all that
matters and brands and everything else.
Actually having some purpose behind what you're actually
doing will light your fire, probably on a daily basis
compared to just transacting. Yeah, exactly.
You know, let's make it beautiful.
Let's make people love it and fall in love with it.
There's a lot more respect thereto the past as well.
Yeah, Yeah. As opposed to just trying to

(22:16):
like create this like trendy. Grief Sat.
Dad will be made-up. Yeah, well, exactly.
But you know, it's about adding great moments into everything.
You know, everything in that store has been considered and
has been made and thought about and has a story.
So at any point, Eddie or James or anyone working there, can you

(22:36):
know if anyone asks, well, tell me more about this, Tell me more
about that. Then you know they they know the
detail. And I suppose that's the next
question. How does it then reflect the the
product and the personality of you and what you've done?
So internally, do you feel like you've achieved that in the
store? So you've got that in the store
in the cafe. So you've got that kind of feel
of like, you know, so we talked about the box and the way it's
sent off premise. But internally, do you feel you

(22:57):
just mentioned the streaky bacon, which was really cool.
Did you feel like you've achieved what you in your mind
set out to? Do yeah, definitely.
Yeah. It's like, it's a very like,
nostalgic film when you go in there.
I feel like it could have been there for a lot longer than it
already has been. The same.
Been there for a year. But people just walk in.
Some people just like stop in the doorway and they just like,
they just take a moment to look around.
I think it's so unexpected, right, for you to have one site

(23:19):
and be so invested in with the brand, I suppose.
And what you're achieving from the, from the, from the very
first site. I think it's, I don't know,
maybe I'm just too shocked. But I think it's, I think it's
quite interesting and a unique way to approach it because I
think some people go to one to five sites.
My friend owns a business calledThe Pizza People, which is
somewhere down here. I think he's got 2 sites now,
but he's just starting to engagewith designers and start talking

(23:42):
about how do I develop this brand kind of thing.
So you're, you're quite brave, aren't you, in the fact that
you've gone there quite early and got the results you've got.
Yeah. And I don't think the plan was
well, the plan wasn't like rightyear one, one site, year 2
sites. And like those I don't think
those are the places I loved either.
I love finding those little one off places in someone's
neighborhoods or the little the little hidden spots that that

(24:04):
are normally run by the owners and so much characters also
characters within the business. And so that was more my aim to
create that and to how people experience that as opposed to
others. 5 sites and. Yeah.
No, no, no, I totally agree. And I think when you talked
about the start about the SAT data again, the back streets and
they kind of finding those places, they are unique, right.

(24:25):
And when you look at we talked about an Italian chain before we
came on air and they lose that, you know, even though you might
have an individual and often it's about the people and the
product, right? More more often than ever, if
you're in a restaurant, your great time is generally down to
something you've eaten or something you've met.
Right. Very.
Yeah. And and that actually design is
that is what then you remember from that experience as well
that that brand, that enablementthat allows you then to go out

(24:47):
and eat it at home or whatever it might be.
And I think what's key for me here is your relationship's
quite interesting because because you're obviously mates
as well as working together and it's a long relationship, right?
It's like, so it's your eight years.
Yeah, eight years getting on, getting on for Yeah, You know,
it's late night, Sunday messages, early morning.
Is this the same for all your customers or is this a special
treatment? Yeah, No, it, it, it is because

(25:11):
keeping people happy and workingwith people that you like is, is
part of it, isn't it? You know, it's we're a service
industry. Yeah, and the relationship is a
big part. Yeah, we're invested in your
business as much as you've spentand invested in hours and that's
such an amazing thing to experience.
Yeah, cuz it really is a win win, isn't it?
Without being too cheesy and I hate that phrase, but it really

(25:31):
isn't it because you're really invested in this and he's
obviously paying you to do this job.
But it's more than that, isn't it?
It's not about just the transactional part.
No, it's about the bit that comes after because if you
really care, it just shows in your work.
I think it just not that you, I suppose you're doing extra stuff
or whatever, but it just the care and attention that you
just, I mean, I'm going back to the streaky bacon, just that
detail and the colours in the box.

(25:52):
I know that's your job per SE, but that for me is if I was in
James's shoes, you'd be like, wow, these guys really get what
I'm trying to are in my head. And I've got a designer who
works for me at tech on toast. And I don't know how, I don't
know why, but me and Jack, I, hesees him.
It's very weird. He sees in my head.
I can't tell you why. And we will do work in minutes
where I reckon companies take weeks, months.

(26:13):
And I, I think you 2 have a similar relationship, right?
And a lot of tech guys tell me or a lot of operators tell me
they don't leave tech companies because the tech's poor.
It might not be the greatest, there might be a better one next
door, but they stay because of the relationship.
They stay because they think, you know what, if I leave him, I
might lose that support we've got or that ability to change
things quickly. And I think you're on that same

(26:33):
path, right? Definitely, yeah.
And I think it, it's just to echo your experience there, you
know, it's about having that safety net in many ways, isn't
it? You know, that 93 FT is an
extension of your team. Yeah, from from that
perspective. And you know, if you need
something which is often last minute as well, then you know
it. Was last minute this?
Morning. Yeah, I've.
Already emailed Joe for an update on the baking guy.

(26:54):
I was like, I was like, can you get the back to me today?
Yeah. Then, you know, you can just
reach out to us and we're we're right there.
And, you know, it's just so easyto work like that.
I mean, just an image just flashing my mind.
Do you remember hanging that fried egg off that invisible
fishing line? Fishing line to say that?
Amazing. That just random we need to that

(27:15):
picture needs to be in my inbox,yeah.
But yeah, we, because we part ofthe design work we did in the
bacon guide, we wanted to explode the bacon sandwich so
everyone could see exactly what was in every layer by layer what
goes into this thing. And yeah, I think it's one of
the most successful photo shootswe've we've done.

(27:36):
But yeah, it definitely tells that story.
And it was very interesting balancing all the pieces,
various bits of apparatus and stuff.
But yeah, took all that. But yeah, what an image.
Yeah, I think photo shoots are never short, are they?
People seem to think it's just come in and snap a few.
It's just not like that, especially when you're hanging
eggs from a fishing wire. And on relationships and
suppliers, you talked to me whenwe first met about some, I

(28:00):
suppose you could call them herosuppliers, all the people that
really are the the backbone of your business that supply you.
Tell us a little bit about thosekind of guys because they are
key to obviously the yeah, yeah,execution of the product.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, they're key to like what
we deliver on a daily basis at the CAF.
Like we try to work with the best possible suppliers and that
means we've got a few different suppliers.
Well, quite a lot of different suppliers.
Yeah, because everything's all about like, the humbleness, but

(28:22):
also like, how, how can you organise, like, surprise the
customer a little bit, even whenit comes down to, like, the
white, like, like it's white sliced bread.
Ours comes from like, a little tiny Japanese bakery over in
Shepherd's Bush called Happy SkyBakery from a lady called
Motoko. She's amazing.
And it's like this shaky pan bread.
And it's like, it looks like you're generic white sliced, but

(28:43):
it's the most like beautiful, like sweet, light, fluffy.
Is that what you get in the? What do we get in the kits then?
So that's our milk bun. So on the fry UPS we do this
white sliced and then in the kits is the bread that we
created. So it's like a milk and like
tiny caramelized onion bun if. Anyone's hungry, we listen to
this. Sorry it's not helping.
Yeah. So yeah, so supplies like her

(29:03):
then we've got like a brilliant butchers up in Yorkshire called
R&J who supply our old fashionedmiddle bacon, which is like
really quite uncommon. Nowadays, Yorkshire bacon.
Yeah, super super, super old school, but obviously not many
places this is. Thick cut, right?
Thick cut, yeah. It's like, so it's a mix between
back bacon and streaky bacon combined.
So you get this beautiful, like almost like circular rasher

(29:26):
that's like 2 rasher's in one. And then we put two of those in
a sandwich. They're essentially getting like
these 4. That's the one thing I will say.
You are done on one. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, as in in in a good way, you know.
So sometimes you eat a bacon sandwich and then you're like I
need another one, you know, kisses.
But I had one of yours. I was like I'm I'm happy.
Yeah, I'm good. Is that helping sales?
Am I not helping sales? Am I digging the service?

(29:48):
You can have as many as you like, but and the same for you,
Rick actually, because whilst you James has got his food
supplies that the backbones is you must be.
We mentioned about neon then, but you must have go to people,
I suppose, or people you work with that because when you're
trying to enable these brands and bring them to life, you must
have a you must have AI don't know.
Do you have a way that you work with particular people?
Yeah, so we're really fortunate actually to have a manufacturing

(30:12):
arm to the business as well. Oh really?
So again we can take an interiordesign and actually deliver it
through shop fitting and manufacture bespoke joinery.
It's. Your end to end.
Literally end to end in the physical realm and digital
realm. So that's kind of a great core
base for fit outs. But then we also reclaim or

(30:34):
salvage a lot of material. And again, James has had quite a
bit of that put into his scheme,particularly the counter which
recycled hardwood flooring. But we also approach things
quite sensitively. So like you had some great booth
seating in there originally fromthe place that you took over.
So we actually upcycled those, we clapped them.

(30:56):
So again, there's like clever ways of cost saving, but
elevating. And yeah, we often find various
interesting bits and pieces along the way from antique fairs
or salvage merchants that we canthen put into schemes.
It it's really just finding great things that are just going

(31:17):
to make that experience. I suppose every job is
different. Is it so?
I think, yeah. So every job is different.
Yeah, yeah, I don't. Want to say it's more fun
because I don't want to offend any of your other customers, but
is it more fun to work, to work,to work?
I can't, I can't. It's been a long week.
But when you look at Cos, you know, you've worked with some, I

(31:37):
don't know if you very big clients on the High Street that
we all know and use probably daily.
And then you're working with James as well.
And I imagine it's quite good fun working with the embryotic
style brands where you're helping kind of shape their
future almost. Yeah, I mean even for bigger
clients. We're being very evasive around
the bigger client. We are being for no reason.

(31:58):
Again, there's a general trend towards failing and being more
local. So people want that sort of
localized feel where you can just nip into your.
It's something that a lot of brands have struggled with.
I don't know if you 2 think the same.
I think a lot of brands of all Iagree want that.
They don't want to once they getto Prime Minister when they were
growing, they didn't want to feel and never wanted to, then
we don't want to lose that Bristol.
They don't want to lose that away from Bristol.

(32:20):
We build our Glastonbury. This is how we roll.
And it got harder the bigger they got because they're in
grocery, they're all over the supermarkets and then it.
And I do think that's hard. And I do think you can only
really achieve that through brand and design.
I think they had a very, very great brand guy like you who was
doing all the work for them, guycalled Ryan.
And I think it's, I don't know if you see the same that people
are struggle to find that authenticity once you start

(32:41):
growing. Yeah, definitely a challenge,
but you've got to build it in from the start.
You know, it's got to be part ofthe brand's DNA and you've got
to lean yourself into it and others in your business to kind
of buy into it and love it because, yeah, it's it is a bit
of a fine art, but it's definitely achievable.
You know, everyone can be thinking about how you to create

(33:02):
a brand that just doesn't feel like a UFO because you know, no
one really wants that unless it's a UFO.
Experience. No, Someone, someone, somebody
said to me, nobody returns for atransaction, right?
They return for experience. And I think that's what you've
created. And you've said at the start, I
didn't want that. I didn't want that cookie,
cookie cutter type 5-6 sites. So what, what, what do you want?
I'm interested to say what is there.
We want a scale and that's that's definitely not the next

(33:24):
half of this one, but we always wanted the obviously the
neighborhood spot and just to create that feeling of
customers. But so we'll always have that,
but then we'll scale in a different way next by stripping
it right back. Basically, it's how it all
began. We're all focused on just the
bacon sandwich. Very.
Cool. Can you talk about that at all?
I mean a bit of course. Yeah.

(33:45):
Well, yeah, like I said, it's all about like going back to how
we started having like 1 product, maybe 2, like a bacon
sandwich, builders tea. Actually, I did not do that
knowing that you were here. Weirdly, for everybody
listening, I asked for a builders team.
We got here today and I'm looking to my right and it's.
It's panto and shade. Yeah, sure, isn't it?
What is that? What is that shade?

(34:05):
Designer person. What we're looking at is not a
mocker, is it? No.
Yeah, Anyway, but the builder. But builders tea is something I
regularly walk into business. It might be my age.
And now I walk in. I say that to people.
I mean, for the first time. Yorkshire tea.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think that's don't we
can't let that disappear. No, no, yeah.
So I mean, that's and you talk and we talked a little bit when
we first met you about your holein the wall.

(34:26):
Is that? Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. That's, so that's the next, the
next step basically. So yeah, just looking for a site
currently in Central, a small site and yeah, hole in the wall
concept. Super simple, 2 products all
folks. It's very cool.
Do you know about the PaddingtonCheesecake hole in the wall?
Yeah, I've heard about it. Yeah.
Yeah, so someone I don't I've someone sent me an instant went

(34:47):
look, this is like this. There was one of our lots.
So this is like what this one I'm trying to do and they've
got, it's a you have to knock and it's like a, and you kind
of, no one wants to what I did there with that noise.
But and but you get your cheesecake handed through tap
and go. So yeah, I'll find it.
And so you guys can go and checkit out.
Yeah, but but I, I, I love that.Again, it's a more brand
extension more, you know, you guys doing reaching more people.

(35:08):
How are you going to make that happen?
Yeah, I'm bugging at you. So I'm bugging you as.
Well, yeah, yeah, I know I've got a This is why we're on the
tech podcast, but yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, it's really easy. I mean, we just open ChatGPT, we
throw in what we want and then we get isn't.
That what we all do now. Yeah.
And then that's what we'll get built.
So yeah, no, joking aside, we have actually had those moments

(35:31):
just for fun, just to kind of see what it would come up with.
But the reality is we have produced a concept based on a
sort of hypothetical site. So yeah, and it looks a lot
better than what AI has created,you know, a bit more crafted.
We've actually thought about theguest experience from start to
finish. So yeah, if you're sat on the

(35:54):
site, if you have a shop front that you'd love Les Swine to
feature in, what do we need, 350to 400 square foot?
Yeah, yeah. Ideally.
Heritage shop front or modern shop front?
We're kind of open to ideas. Yeah.
Yeah, we would. We would love to hear from in
London. It's in London.
Yeah. It can be, well, a busy street,

(36:16):
but it could also be a slightly quieter.
Yeah, because I think this is going to be an amazing
destination for people to come and visit, call in to regularly.
And tech people, we've reached out to a few of you already to
help with this project. And I don't know how much
success we're having. I would say little.
Yeah, Yeah. Well.

(36:37):
I've heard nothing. It's.
Moving forward, yeah, OK. So, but if anyone's listening
and they they're like, yeah, we can definitely because I think
it's about incorporating the brand still in that really cool
way of the order injection, being able to do it.
That doesn't feel like suddenly a tech thing's taken over this
thing. It feels like it's still very
kind of organic and manual, but in a, in a speedy way because
you guys have got to do volume through it.
So yeah, if you're listening, get in touch.

(36:59):
It'd be super interesting to know a bit more.
And I want to, I want to talk a bit about culture quickly in
terms of the team, because obviously you've got actually
from both sides. It's interesting to know about
you guys as well. What what is that?
I suppose you could, you, can you encapsulate what your
culture looks like within the swine?
I kind of, I know you, you seem like a laid back cool chat, but
how does it work internally? Laid back at work, that's.

(37:20):
Because that's the chef in you, that is.
But no, it's just. It's just about, I think,
finding people who care basically.
We've tried a few different things at the CAF.
We've tried to bring in people with like a high skill set and
that hasn't worked. But essentially now the team is
the best it's ever been and we've got like like a core team
of like 4 who just really, really care.

(37:40):
And it's just like an unbelievable feeling at the
moment and that every customer comes in.
So we'll all say like, it just seems like the team love working
here and that just happened naturally and through people
really caring. It's interesting.
Is it? Because I always think when you
add people to your business, youchange the culture each time.
Not in a bad way or a good way, just their personality.
No one's the same, right? They're going to bring a little

(38:00):
bit to your business. That's what you want.
Yeah. And that must be the same for
you, right? Because you're God, you're
working with all creatives. It must be insane and you're
creative as well. It's a car crash.
But when you're bringing people into it because I mean, I think
I know that you're very probablyquite protective of any work you
do or quite, you know, obviouslyvery proud of what you do and

(38:20):
most creators I work with love feedback.
Not. So what's it like bringing in
new people into the business or new designers or creative,
especially in the digital field,because I think they they work
in a speed in a way that's very different to some of the other
guys would work in design. How's that for you guys?
Because it's, I presume they're quite long.
Do you have quite long service or quite long lengthy tenure

(38:41):
when people come in or is it or does it depend?
Yeah. So we well, yeah, yesterday was
our second birthday for becomingan employee owned business,
right. So the business was basically
sold back to the employees in 2023.

(39:01):
So we've had a couple of years like exploring what that means
and you know, that sense of ownership, pride of work,
working collaboratively. So in some senses is already a
great fit from working as a teamand and being creative.
But yeah, we, I've forgotten what the question was there.

(39:25):
I. Was asking about what's it like
bringing new people into a business like that.
Yeah. So when we became an EOT, we
actually brought in quite a number of new people into the
business and I think it's alwaysamazing when you see them start
to flourish. So we made a decision to bring
in a digital designer to help grow our digital offer.

(39:46):
Yeah. And she's been absolutely
incredible. I think has really felt
empowered, you know, supported by the rest of the team and is
absolutely nailing projects thatwe've we've got on at the
minute. So it's really great when you
can take a little step back as aas a founder and kind of former

(40:06):
owner of the business and see people succeed in that sense.
What made you just very quickly,what made you do the EOT part?
What made you? What brought you to that point?
Yeah, so Tim, who is the other founder of 93 FT.
He wanted to take a step back after what had been the best
part of 1520 years. So, yeah, finding a a succession

(40:29):
plan for a business is always quite tricky.
And at that time the EOT route seemed to be the best option
rather than a more traditional MBO.
Yeah, just because there's way less risk on the team who will
take that business on from a financial sense.
So yeah, I think we're we're kind of riding that wave a

(40:51):
little bit. You know, it's not without its
challenges, but I think I think it's just about taking every day
as it comes and growing and fulfilling that EOT kind of
mantra as we go. So yeah, everyone's still there.
And in fact, a lot of people have been there over five years,
10 years, and I've been there 20years.

(41:12):
So yeah, there's a lot of time investing.
A lot of time, yeah, yeah, yeah,I know.
But obviously you've been quite good, otherwise you wouldn't be
here 20. Years.
Yeah, Yeah. Yeah.
And I want to finally, I want totalk about design a little bit
because in the future of the hostility world, because as I
said, what we talked about before we actually came on air,
we talked there's a bit of a samey.
There used to be, I would say inthe mid 2000s was very much a

(41:33):
chain culture and and, you know,casual dining was booming.
Like, you know, there was, I waspart of Carluccio's, you know,
I'm trying to cafe, you know, Cafe.
Was it Cafe Rouge? Cafe Rouge?
Yeah. Frankie and Benny's, all these
kind of guys who sat in the middle.
I suppose. Carluccio, sorry, you were a
little bit higher maybe, but butit was a lot of that chain
culture going on 5060 sites, private equity back bang, bang,
bang. And I think that's definitely

(41:53):
dissipating or if if not disappearing.
And the ones that remain seem tohave elevated a little bit.
But what do you think happens interms of design and the way
brands? But do you, do you think we'll
see more of less wine, that kindof approach to, to casual
dining, to, to hostility and andthe same in terms of people like
you, I suppose, being more involved is it?
And what I'm trying to say is because pizza pilgrims are a

(42:14):
good example, right? A very brand heavy chain.
They're they're a rest, they're a pizza shop, right?
But they've got this really clever brand they've built
around it that people seem to love.
And the founders are very much part of that brand.
They are the brand and it's playful, it's fun, it kind of
makes sense. And I, I, and there's a reason
they're successful and people love them because I think it's
kind of that's where they say, and I see you guys as the same.

(42:34):
Do you think that I'll start with you, James, Do you think
that's going to become more common seeing that kind of
offering going forward? Yeah, I think so.
Yeah. Well, people, I think people
invest in people, right? And so that's with Peter.
Pilgrims like them, two of us are very much on the front of
like socials and stuff and like people, people buy into that,
you know, knowing that there's like real people behind
businesses. Rather than some horrible

(42:55):
private equity. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sorry, private equity people. It's like the soul behind the
business, isn't it? Yeah, it's true.
And I think that and same for you guys.
Do do you think the brand will become?
I mean, I think I know the answers, but more and more
important as we go more into thedigital age.
Yeah, I think so. I mean, just to sort of go a
couple of steps back. I mean, we've in the last year,

(43:15):
we worked on an amazing little bakery brand called Baker's
Yard. That's right, Yeah, up in
Sheffield. And they've just become one of
the top 50 bakery bakeries in the country.
So they're a team of two with obviously supporting kitchen
staff, but they essentially pumpout into this little
neighborhood bakery, like truly delicious food, like made fresh,

(43:38):
literally, you can see it all bemade straight out of the oven on
the cooling rack. It's been a huge hit.
And that, I think, is so important because these founders
just want to do delicious food they want.
Yeah, they don't. Joints do the yeah.
You know, you've got to enjoy doing that.
You're getting up at crazy o'clock, you know, working all
day, closing down, starting again six days, seven days a

(44:01):
week. It's a lot So.
And I think the message here from us is we just want to help
support whatever you need through there because obviously
food is your specialism. Branding might not be.
Yeah, telling your story might not be creating a website.
I mean, obviously there's various tools now to make that
easier, but yeah. That's still really difficult.
Trust me. Yeah.
Is that actually what you have as a vision?

(44:23):
Yeah. Because a lot of these people
have ideas of where they want tobe, what they want to look like,
where they want to go. So I think partnering with a
studio like us, we can enable that and ultimately we're just
here to see businesses succeed. So amazing to see that happen
for Baker's Yard in Sheffield. Such a great story for them.

(44:44):
And yeah, I think there's some. And it's a similar concept, not
similar concept, but similar size business doing, you know,
coming out of a very, a really strong product.
And I think most people start with a good product.
Otherwise, how'd you get going? So most people must start with
something great that people love.
And then, and then somewhere after that you get a little bit
lost or, and I think founders being one and sitting opposite

(45:06):
one another, actually, you find it really hard to, to really
kind of visualize what you mean,what you want to do.
And I first time ever we went towebsite designer this year,
We've never, I've done it myselfall the time.
I've always built my own websites and I was just like,
I'm done because I just tinker. I can't, it's just the time as.
Well, yeah, it's like you said, wormhole.

(45:26):
I live in that rabbit hole wherever it is, like for life.
Just my guys, like Chris, just pay someone, you know and I but
you, you procrastinate, don't you around it all.
So it for any founders listening, just pay an expert
because you because you won't even look at it after that it's
done. It's not decorating.
I always think about painting, right.
I hate it. So why would you do it if you
don't really enjoy it? Yeah.
If you did it yourself, you'd just be looking at it all the

(45:48):
time, like you know. And you'll never be happy.
You'll love it. Honestly, every website I've
never. Liked it?
Exactly. I built it once or used a
template and gone. Yeah, that's great.
And then for the rest of my lifeto go.
I mean, James Brown, the MD of Brew Dog told me a while ago, he
said go back to your very first thing you ever did.
Yeah, digitally and look at it and remind yourself where you've
come from. And I went to look at the very
first tech on toast where and I literally was like just shut it

(46:09):
quickly went Oh my God, did I actually put that?
Live wife says that all the timeshe goes go look at your
photography from the first year.Just for Christmas specials,
I'll be going to my moms house and borrowing some baubles and
now we're doing all these beautiful like.
Concepts, yeah. But I think it's really
important sometimes just to go back on that little journey and
kind of remember, I mean, you'vegot a 20 year and it must be
weird to go back to the very first project you did to where

(46:30):
you what you're doing now, just kind of look at the breadth of
work you've done. So I think people just sometimes
forget to feel a bit proud aboutwhat they've achieved or what
they've brought with them. So kudos to both of you.
Look, and we have to do it, you know, at the end where you do a
what's next bit on a purpose. Yeah, Yeah, this is this is
where we're at. So I mean, we talked a little
bit about the last wine growing and your, your hole in the wall
concept. Is there anything else we can
expect? Are you expanding anything in

(46:51):
terms of delivery or you, I meanit's pretty good as it is, but.
No, so the, the caffeine Sheen is obviously there.
That's going to be that's going to carry on the meal kits
they'll deliver nationwide once a month via the website.
And then we've got the street food truck, which is obviously
going out for like private hire weddings.
I didn't realize that. So you do all the eventing
stuff. As well, Yeah, we've got the F1

(47:12):
coming up where we do Silverstone every year really, a
couple of festivals and then allprivate hire like weddings and
then the hole in the walk on such is definitely.
The I think it's a hidden. Dual right event business,
there's a lot of cash there, right?
Yeah, and it's needed. It's hard work.
Yeah, it's hard work, but it's definitely needed in our model,
you know? Yeah, we're a small independent.
Exactly the same as pie. Exactly.
In a sleepy suburb. So it's where we want to be, but

(47:34):
definitely the other sides of the business help.
Yeah, I think it's really when you're building a business to
have revenue streams that support, that can support the
ultimate dream almost sometimes because, you know, it's stuff
like event work, which is, you know, full on and hard work,
late nights, early mornings, allthat kind of stuff.
But actually they're they're good for margin, right, Because
there's been bash, bash, get in,sell and get out.

(47:54):
Yeah. So you know what you're going to
deliver, you know what you're going to get from it.
And I think they're great cash drivers for the rest of the
business. So we have our recruitment
business on the side, which helps us drive the rest of the
company and do the stuff that we, like you said we like doing.
So yeah, so it's it's super interesting.
We'll come and find you. Wait, Silverstone, are you are
you in like the posh bit? Can I get near?
You we are in the posh. Yeah, right.
OK. So now.
We can get you in. Yes, that was on the podcast.

(48:17):
And what about yourself? Obviously lots of projects on
the go I imagine. Yeah, we have.
So we do quite a bit in the heritage and cultural sector,
which is pretty interesting. So organizations like Chatsworth
House, we've just refurbed theirfarm shop and kind of deli,
yeah, which is an amazing project.

(48:39):
Amazing. And was that U end to end again
there? So you did the design and fitted
it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Along with 300 products for their own brand.
Wow, which is just incredible. And they're outselling some of
their other ranges in house. So amazing win there.
Yeah, but that kind of continuesthat journey what we did with
James, which is create products and packaging and create a

(49:02):
brand. You know, it's the same kind of
principle, but making a massive difference there up at
Chatsworth for them just in a new restaurant also at
Chatsworth House called the Carriage House.
So that's refitting their Cafe canteen kind of area for guests.
So again, elevating that guest experience.
So that's been super great working with those guys.

(49:23):
And then, yeah, we're actually working on the national roll out
of Gales bakeries. That's a small 1 you didn't
mention. Just drop that mic, drop bye.
Which is really great. You know what an what an
incredible. Business and I'd love to know
what's the difference. This is again, I'm sorry I'm
throwing your Cobos everywhere, but what's the difference
between working with Gales and working with James?

(49:47):
Few digits, yeah. Yeah.
Well, or is there none? There might be none, right?
Because your process may stay the same.
I'm sure that there's more layers to work through, I
suppose. You know, they're and they are,
and I'll repeat it, they are in an absolutely incredible
business. You know, they have got an
absolute machine behind them in terms of how they process
things, how they approach things, schedule things.

(50:09):
You know, it's it's not actuallythat much different.
I wouldn't say, but you've just got a lot more to kind of fit
into and around. But you know, it's a very people
based business of which there isa huge team that make that
happen. Brilliant brand.
Yeah. And you know, building those
relationships, you know, we've got a couple of our interiors

(50:31):
team heading over to Gale's in the next month or so to actually
do some work experience there. So actually get behind the
counter, learn how those bakeries work, learn more about
the products, the people who work there.
So, and I think that's invaluable.
You know, that's an opportunity that's been afforded by Gale's
just in terms of how they think,how they approach working with

(50:52):
design teams. And that, and that's why there's
no surprise for success. I say this all the time.
People should never be shocked by success.
Or if you're shocked by success,you don't know the full story.
That's why I will say, and I always say, just dig a little
deeper and find out why these people are.
And, and yes, they can get privately back.
Yes, they can get more money, but the reality is there's
something in that business happening which is making them
grow. It's just, it is the way it is.

(51:12):
And it, and it's, I've never seen, I've never been surprised
when I've dug a little deeper inthose kind of businesses.
Like that's why they just love their people.
They just work really hard for their people.
And that guess what? Their people repay them.
It's it's. It is that simple.
Yeah, and I think, you know, when you say you work for gales,
everyone just smiles. You know, everyone has a good.
Well, yeah, because you. Feed me in the morning.
Yeah, exactly. You fuel my day, you know?

(51:32):
It's a real people powered business and yeah, we love, love
working with them. And so lastly, we've just
launched a new Co working space for a brand that we've also
rebranded and helped sharpen up and elevate called Good Space.
So they're based up in New Islington coming North London,
but yeah, a new Co working community.

(51:53):
It's and also you because when you get, when you design these,
I suppose you're at the can be at the start of these journeys.
And I know that a lot of tech people listen to this there.
I mean, I think there's some collaboration, partnership,
whatever you want to call it. But these guys when you're doing
your projects, all they're awareof projects that they're and
actually that you guys could talk about together, right.
So there's a, there's a, there'sa very interesting crossover
there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

(52:14):
They'll all be in touch with your inbox.
But yeah, so I mean fascinating and I think straight away I need
to get your contact details for the listening.
So how do people get hold of less wine or get themselves a
kit? I'm not saying they're for free.
They have to pay. I get this just.
On the website laswine.co.uk. Swine.co.uk.

(52:35):
Yeah, and then the cafes in EastJune.
Yeah, just in between Richmond and Putney.
OK. So yeah, anywhere in the country
you can have a Las Wine experience delivered to your.
Home love that yeah, I will put one of the better pictures that
these guys supply me on the podcast post we send out.
You've got to try the product. It's fantastic and same for you.
If people want to reach out and and now take over your inbox,

(52:55):
where do they grab you? Yeah, so you can head to the
website I begin at 93 ft.com or find me on LinkedIn, Nick Clark,
I'm there. Or drop me an e-mail
[e-mail]. Lovely.
OK, consider yourself stalked. Yeah.
OK, look, thank you chaps for coming in.
The only thing missing from today is the bacon butties,

(53:17):
right? I know well.
James, I mean, just what are youdoing?
Yeah, fails. In the post.
Yeah, in the post.