August 5, 2025 • 37 mins
In this episode, Chris Fletcher sits down with Sonny Wells, founder of Sonny’s – the soon-to-launch fast-casual food brand with a mission to make eating out safer and more inclusive for people with allergies, especially coeliacs. Sonny shares his personal journey through a difficult diagnosis, what sparked the idea for Sonny’s in Dubai, and how a chance encounter with Sir Richard Branson turned into national visibility and a wave of investor interest.
They talk about why “gluten-free” often isn’t really gluten-free, the lack of trust coeliacs feel in mainstream restaurants, and the operational minefield most hospitality brands face when trying to serve guests with allergens. Plus, Sonny gives a sneak peek into how he’s building a scalable, confidence-first QSR brand—with tech, training, and trust at the core.
💡 Key Topics Covered:
The painful diagnosis that inspired Sonny’s
What “truly gluten-free” actually means—and why most brands get it wrong
The difference between clean, allergen-free fast food and processed options
His pitch to Sir Richard Branson and winning the “Elevator of Dreams”
How Sonny plans to scale the business through tech, training, and franchising
The role of kiosks, face-to-face service, and roving allergen experts
Challenges with dairy-free cheese and lessons from early advisors
Why confidence is the brand’s core value—and what that means in practice
The untapped market of allergy-conscious consumers, and why it’s growing fast
The vision for Sonny’s in the UK and beyond
🔗 Connect with Sonny:
Instagram: @sonnystheceliac
Business Page: @sonnys_food
LinkedIn: Sonny Wells
💬 Chris’s Take:
“Sonny’s isn’t just a food brand—it’s a confidence brand. It’s answering a real, growing need in hospitality with compassion, energy and commercial smarts.”
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Techinto's podcast, the show that connects
hospitality with technology, oneslice at a time.
I'm your host, Chris Fletcher, and each week we're joined by
the sharpest minds in the industry, from operators and
founders to tech pioneers, to uncover the tools, trends, and
stories shaping the future of hostility.
This season is brought to you byDeliberate, the trusted order
management platform helping thousands of hostility
businesses streamline service, reduce errors, and serve up
(00:23):
better guest experiences. Whether you're scaling dark
kitchens or managing multiple brands, Deliberate helps you
connect your channels and power our performance.
All right, let's get to it coming up on this week's Tech on
Toast podcast. Where I got like a message pop
up on my Instagram like Richard Branson wants to message you.
I was like screenshot. I feel like I need to frame it
like I always wanted to help in the space of celiacs and gluten
(00:43):
free people. Actually just started Sonny's
about a year and a half ago. So we're I had the idea about
six years ago. I actually had it in.
Dubai someone came in and said they were celiac.
Like emergency kit, Yeah. No, we break it out.
Literally. It was.
It was. The symptoms were getting worse.
The doctors had no idea and thenhad a whole issue with actually
getting diagnosed and I had a knot in my intestines.
(01:04):
My stomach nearly exploded. Is actually why I'm doing the
business because no one else wasdoing it.
Like again, I wasn't in hospitality.
You know, I've, I've had to completely learn everything from
scratch. But there's a lot of places that
say they're gluten free but aren't actually gluten.
Free. It's a problem to been around
forever. How are you tackling it?
The gluten. Free element that that is the
core and we'll try and help as many other allergies.
As so you almost be like sterile.
(01:25):
My girlfriend actually has a sphere nut allergy so we don't
get tried out very often. When it was like gluten free was
a fat and then people were having gluten.
Free like it was a diet. That 13% the UK and now on
gluten free diet because it kills us over time.
He wants to take it seriously. Really.
And you've had some famous involvement so far.
Have to bring him up. Instead of me reaching out to
investors, investors now reaching out to me.
(01:47):
It's like a confidence play everyone would be like, I love
going there because I am safe. Welcome to the next episode of
Tekken, to his podcast. And today I'm delighted to be
joined by Sunny Wells, founder of Sunny.
See what I did there? Thank you very much.
Very simple. Hello, how are you mate?
I'm all good. I'm all good.
Good to see you. Well, I'm yeah, it's a bit crazy
today, but welcome to ball, boss.
What do you think? I absolutely love it, It's a
really nice studio. Looks really nice office as
well. Yeah, yeah, it's about how I
(02:08):
roll, mate. Only hanger we need to do the
best the house and ball boss That's that's.
True. There's two places, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I'm like the the poorest rich man.
You'll know anyway, mate, How are you?
And tell us before we get into everything.
Yeah. How's how's life been?
Like the last time I saw you wasproperly was Tech Expo I think,
and then I saw you at dinner. I think dinner a couple months
ago with all the tech clock wasn't it?
(02:28):
That's right. So thanks for being here.
How was that that? Was brilliant.
That was really helpful. I feel like at the end of the
table there was just everyone. Just.
Giving me free advice, William Connors didn't.
You. Yeah.
Oh, he's been amazing. He's just giving me so much
advice and I, I was looking through the list of you had on
the podcast. It was #1 I think.
That's right. Yeah.
He was. Will was was the episode.
I think he was, yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty sure when I
looked yesterday. He's a great supporter and he's
a lovely chap as well, which youfound out.
(02:48):
Yeah, and he was giving me so much free advice.
And I feel like that's what I found so quickly in the
hospitality space. Like, I'm new to it and people
like, will have just come in andjust given as much advice as
possible for free and everyone wants to help.
It's amazing and very hospitable, yeah.
That's what we do, right? I think we care about people
before everything else, which often doesn't make money, which
is part of the problem. We're all too nice being nice to
(03:09):
each other rather than being evil, cynical capitalists.
But anyway, tell us a little bitabout you before we get into
Sonny's. Tell us a little bit about your
back story so people understand who you are.
Oh, my back story. Well, so how long you, how long
you got long? So I'm originally from Ipswich.
I'm 33. I feel like when I first said
that to you, you were like, I thought you were like 20
something. So I'm clearly moisturized Well,
(03:33):
and to be honest, if I, if I shave the beard off, I'd look
about 14. So it's it's good that it's.
Good mate. Own it, right?
I'm I've just reached a certain pivotal age in my life where
everything is depressing. So yeah, just just own it.
Or enjoy it when it lasts. Yeah.
So yeah, it's no. Originally from Ipswich, I was
there for most of my life, didn't go to uni or anything
like that. However, went into trying to
(03:56):
work, done college and then she actually went to be a gas
engineer working with my dad, worked with that.
I worked with him for two years and just wasn't for me, didn't
suit me. Then went into a state agency,
which for my sins and and then, yeah, was in that for a few
(04:16):
years and and during that time was getting diagnosed with
celiac. So I'm sure we'll get into that
in a second. But yeah, basically after that
move to Dubai was over in Dubai for five.
Years. Sorry, you just went from being
the state agent to go into Dubai.
A state agent in Dubai. Oh, right.
OK, OK, fair enough. So.
Yeah, an opportunity came up andI I couldn't say no when I was,
(04:37):
I was just turned 22 when I moved out.
So yeah, it was. That's quite an.
Experience isn't it for someone to kind of.
Yeah, it was a it was a bold move and I definitely don't
regret it in any way, shape or form.
Like it set me up for life in some ways, unfortunately, not
necessarily the money, but it's,it's definitely helped me in, in
so many ways. You know, you, you meet so many
different people, you meet different cultures, meet how
(04:58):
different cultures do business, how business works.
And you just get to see a whole other side of the world whilst
living in the sunshine near the beach.
So yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't all bad.
And then, yeah, I came back during COVID and then I moved to
London about a year later. And yes, since then, basically
just started Sonny's about a year and a half ago.
(05:19):
So we're, we're, I had the idea about six years ago.
I actually had it in Dubai and Ihad it when I was at AJ Shetty
concert randomly. Wasn't meant to be there.
And it was, I went for someone else and yeah, just got
inspiration there. And then it was like, I always
wanted to help in in the space of celiacs and gluten free
people. And then, yeah, had the
inspiration there. And then since then there's kind
(05:41):
of been in the background, it's been eaten away at me.
And then when I moved to London,I was like, I still can't eat.
My friend in Cargo, trust me. And when it's not Sunny's, it'll
be something else. Yeah, yeah, you've got the drug.
A few people have said that as well, like once you've got it,
you can't stop. Yeah, it's very weird.
Yeah, And your partners will suffer, your family will suffer,
but you'll be fine. Well, here's the rest of the
(06:02):
entrepreneurial world. So yeah, basically, but since
I've moved to London, yeah, I just, I just couldn't eat
anything. So for context, I'm celiac and
This is why I'm doing business. So I'm doing the business that I
am. So I, I had a nightmare
diagnosis during the time. So I had when I first got
diagnosed or when I first had anissue, I was about 18.
I eventually got diagnosed at 22.
(06:23):
So literally just before I movedto Dubai and within the four
years, it was like agony back and forth was just, the whole
thing was a nightmare. The the symptoms were getting
worse. The doctors had no idea.
And then I had a whole issue of actually getting diagnosed and I
had a knot in my intestines, my stomach nearly exploded, all
from celiac. And that is as soon as you get
(06:45):
diagnosed, it affects every day of your life.
You know, it's, it's not, it's not just your meals, it's, it's
everything. Else it's almost like you don't
want to know, right, because, but obviously you need to know
because you're ill, but or you're or you're being made ill
and you don't know why. But then all of a sudden when
you do know, it's this whole newworld, isn't it?
And and you're on a panel with me, with the girls who run
served right, who are doing great.
Aren't even Alana. Yeah, they're doing amazing.
(07:05):
Even Alana are like a rocket ship.
They like no one can stop. I mean, I remember that day at
the trade show. They're like, where you going?
We're going to go get people. I was like, OK, they meant it.
But they're doing great with Deshume Hawks more now and.
Saw that? Yeah.
Really good stuff, but we were talking about the ability to
live with what you've got and even though we fit in the
restaurant space, I feel like it's talked about a lot these
(07:27):
days. But it's not really still being
dealt with, is it? In a in a really safe manner, I
suppose. No, I agree.
And I love what the girls are doing as well.
And there's there's a few of those sort of businesses popping
up with health and allergies andI just absolutely love to see
it. And it's it's because the
hospitality space needs it. Because unfortunately, some
places are absolutely amazing, but majority aren't.
And I think that's the case for when we look at technology
(07:50):
across the board. I think there's some real great
use cases in some examples and some really poor ones and
others. And I think that is hospitality
and Nutshell, unfortunately, that it's very hard to be
consistent if it's not your coreproduct.
Got you. Yeah, OK, that's, that's good to
know because I mean, I'm still learning hospitality anyway.
As I said, brand new to it. Well, you know, as we go very
quick, Carluccio's, we were the first people to be gluten
(08:11):
friendly. Gluten free friendly.
That sounds terrible. We had a gluten free print out
menu, right? We had emergency kits in the
kitchen. So if someone came in and said
they were celiac. Like emergency kits, you say?
No, we'd break it out. Literally.
It was, it was sealed. Yeah, it was sealed in a box in
the kitchen. So someone come in.
So we'd have to have a clean pan, clean everything, you know,
separate burner. Everything was done because we
(08:31):
were very, I'm passionate about getting it right.
And we also saw the opportunity 10 years ago, 15 years ago
actually, of that community not getting served properly.
So we saw a commercial reason and, and obviously a bit of a
brand reason to do it properly. And still we would, we hurt some
people accidentally entirely obviously and through human
error, whatever it might be. But it just shows how hard it is
(08:52):
to police and, and manage. So but yeah, it's so it's, it's
a problem. It's been around forever.
How are you tackling it? Good question.
So basically we're going to havethe whole business is gluten
free and also completely nut free.
So no make contains anything like that.
So the whole supply chain, wholekitchen is completely free.
We're also going to be able to make everything dairy free.
So we'll have a separate area ofthe kitchen.
(09:14):
But in terms of the gluten free element, that is the core and
we'll try and help as many otherallergies.
As we see. So you all must be like sterile.
Yeah. So it's someone who's.
Got there is no cross. Celiac, you can walk in there
fully confident that actually we're OK in here.
Yeah, which must be is a huge opportunity.
Yes, yeah. So you think no one else take
(09:35):
it? Yeah, No, look, this is actually
why I'm doing the business, because no one else was doing
it. And like again, I wasn't in
hospitality, you know, I've, I've had to completely learn
everything from scratch and it'sbecause I'm passionate about it,
because I can't eat anything. Like if you go into restaurants,
like I said, Carluccio's, actually when I was in Dubai,
Carluccio's was one of the the go to's because they did cater
really, really well. And so I've, I've had a lot of
(09:56):
Carluccios in my time. Me too, but again, like there,
there really wasn't many restaurants that were catering
for it. And unless you were going to
like higher end restaurants or spending money or even just
actually having a sit down meal and you don't always have time.
And especially in in real estateand estate agency, you don't
really have time. You're in between you're on
viewings or in meetings or evaluations, whatever you might
(10:17):
be. So you're permanently on the go
and I couldn't eat on the go. So unless you're bringing like a
sandwich to work or a salad, like you just can't eat.
So unless you're prepared, you can't eat anything.
And I honestly thought when I moved back to the UK and I moved
to London, I honestly thought I'd be able to eat better.
And I won't name any names, but there's a lot of places that say
they're gluten free but aren't actually gluten free.
(10:39):
That's the cost contamination. And as you said, like with
college chairs, like you have tohave vociferous, you have to
have super pans. It's crazy.
That people put a blanket acrossit and I might be wrong saying
this. I think people tick a box on us
saying we've done the training. There is a process in place in
the restaurant. So we know flag the manager.
So my son works at pizza pilgrims, right?
And I asked him about it the dayI said, what do you do if
someone comes in with an allergy?
(11:00):
You don't know, like no offense shape, but you know you're not
the shop is still in the box, but because that's like he's
very book smart, but he's not you know, so you need to be
quite smart on your feet for that kind of stuff to actually
understand what the customer's telling you and it so they're
all you know, they're all and I think this is right that anybody
who mentions that word straight away managers brought to the
table, it's dealt with. There's a process that follows.
(11:21):
So I think some people do take it very seriously.
I think everybody probably understands the seriousness, but
I think it falls down the food chain.
So once you like any process, right?
Like sat in the table, some people do it better than others,
some people follow the procedure, someone take a
shortcut. I think they do the same with
allergens unfortunately. Do you know what?
Someone gave me a really good description the other day and
like how it works in restaurants.
(11:41):
If it is like the wait or a waitress and then they tell the
manager and then they tell the chef, it's like Chinese
whispers. By the time he gets to the chef,
it's. It's oh, that bloke's got an
allergy. Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. I might die if I eat this.
Yeah, exactly. And like, you know, especially,
and a lot of the time managers do come over, have the chat,
which is great because but when I walk in a restaurant, I always
have to have a like a tick list in my head to go, OK, if I've
(12:03):
called up before and they understand it and they
understand what celiac is, it's not just gluten free.
Again, it's not analogies or immunities.
Hopefully people understand that.
And then once you're actually inthe branch or the store, do the
does the waitro waiter or waitress understand it?
If not, does the manager understand it?
If not, does the chef understandit?
And the amount of times I've hadto walk out of restaurants
because they don't understand it.
(12:24):
I think that's the worry and theproblem we've got is that we
have a very high churn, right? So lots of people come and go in
restaurants. It's a transient business and we
have lots of employees for no, for no one's fault, right?
It's always been the way. And I don't care what anyone
says, it's an Evergreen problem.It's always been that way.
And Mike, in the 30 years I've been around it, people come and
go. And the problem with that, a new
person will start, and unless your training is absolutely
slick and robust and that person's fully educated before
(12:47):
they touch a kitchen utensil, they're going to cause a problem
in, in your scenario, a. 100% And this is the thing like This
is why we're going to be so heavy on training because if
someone doesn't understand, because if someone hasn't got so
obviously if they're if they're gluten free or the celiac, they
don't have to worry if they're not allergy, they haven't got to
worry if they're dairy free, we obviously need to take
precautions like we said. And then if there's any other
allergies, that person with allergies is already going in
(13:10):
somewhere worried like they're already, they're already
nervous, so. I was going to say the dining
experience for you in a in today, wandering around London
wherever you go must be pretty shit.
It's a. Nightmare like you can't eat
anything. Honestly, Chris, it's, it's
ridiculous. Like going out for dinner with
your mates, for instance. Or just go in somewhere with a
friend or a girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever.
You sit there and you must think, thinking I'm not excited
about this. Well, no.
(13:31):
And and to add a spanner in the works and my my girlfriend
actually has a severe nut allergy so.
We don't get. Tired out very often, but you
know it's. Sorry, we're laughing about it
because we're we're. No, but you'd have to have a bit
of humour about it because it is.
It is so hard to live with. You shouldn't know, but.
That's the thing that it actually, it actually gets to
the point where it's frustrating, right?
It is frustrating. Oh, it's painful and very, but
(13:53):
it's also it can be solved yes and you've and I presume you
must feel like. So my son's autistic, right?
And I, when we go to certain things or do certain things, I
feel like he should be accommodated.
But it's almost a similar conversation that Oh, yeah.
But he's one. And there's another hundred who
don't need that attention. So we cater for the 100.
I get it. Yeah.
But for in your case, it's life or death.
(14:14):
Potentially. Well, yeah, exactly.
And look, The thing is we've Cedac.
I think this is the the other big issue is because with nuts
or like an anaphylactic reaction, people can die in the
restaurant. So restaurants are like, Oh my
God, can't, can't give them nuts.
They'll die. Whereas if it's gluten because
it kills us over time, you mustn't take it seriously
because and also there was a thebig issue as well was when it
(14:37):
was like gluten free was a fad and then people were having
gluten free. Like it was a diet.
Yeah, you know, and then it's like, and don't go wrong.
There's so many health benefits to actually eat gluten free.
And I went boy stuff today aboutit.
But you look great, man. Well, I said, you're about 20
years bigger than you are. It's because of the gluten.
Exactly. There we go.
But look, I think when you go into these places and you say
I'm gluten free and then you eata bit of bread, that's when I
(15:00):
think a lot of people will go, oh, it's not as serious, but it
is. And then, you know, celiac
disease, there's 100 people, but13% of the UK are now on a
gluten free diet. So not all of them are celiac,
but there's so many people that have to avoid it for other
medical reasons that are just trying to be healthier or, you
know, they, they physically can't eat it.
So that is in that that proportion of the market is
getting bigger. But going back to what we were
(15:20):
saying like with the with the places that are catering for at
the moment, I think a lot of places just trying to capitalize
on it and just say, oh, we're gluten free because they're
getting another market in, but they're actually not safe.
It's a risk, not. Gluten free, it's actually a
risk because the commerciality that we've mentioned at the
start there that the opportunityto find these people who can't
frequent restaurants because they don't trust them or don't
feel happy enough to outline them is an opportunity for
(15:41):
restaurants that are struggling to make money, right.
So the so they would look at it thinking actually, I mean, I
don't know how cynical they are,but you know, it's an
opportunity, right? I get it.
Yeah. And with Sonny's and Sonny's is
going to is it a QSR fast? How how do you QSR.
You're sitting in that vertical so it's going to be come in
yeah, grab your food exactly. And you can stay in and eat or.
Yeah, we're going to have like some seats, but it is going to
(16:02):
be, you know, the aim of fast food.
The thing is, I actually as it as times going on, I don't
actually like the word fast foodbecause everyone instantly
thinks of bad food. And we're trying to be fresh,
clean, healthier food. You know, we're not going to be
helpful. We're doing toasted sandwiches,
fries, milkshakes, but it's clean food and that's a big
difference and it's fresh. So instead of it, you know,
there's, you know, certain burger chains that don't their,
(16:25):
their food doesn't go off for 30years there, you know, there's
that food should go off. They still probably.
So yeah. So we aren't, we're doing that
movement as well. But the idea is to be, yeah,
fast food. Really.
And and you've had some famous involvement so far have to bring
him up. It's.
Been amazing. And actually the one, I've only
ever read one book in my life, right?
And it was his book. Richard Brown.
Yeah, because the reason I builtTech on Toast, the way I built
(16:46):
it, I don't really tell people many of this actually, but it's
because when he built, when he built Virgin Records, he's just,
I think his first business, he noticed the fact that you needed
multiple revenue streams to support if one, if it wasn't
doing well, something else because he got hit and something
he lost a load of money. So when I built this on a very
much smaller scale, I thought I need different revenue streams
just in case one bit doesn't work.
(17:06):
And actually it's turned out to be really helpful because they
all kind of help each other. But no, it's really interesting.
Tell us about your experience with Mr. Branson.
Oh well, yeah, it's quite some. Real the celebs.
As you do, you know, no, the whole thing was there's a, an
amazing experience. So back in January, for context,
so there was a partnership that Simon Squibb got from Help Bank
(17:27):
and Sir Richard Branson from Virgin.
They'd done a partnership where they were doing a doorbell, so
literally like a, a Ring doorbell in the Virgin Hotel.
And they would get entrepreneursand founders to come to the
doorbell, say what the business is, either how they can help or
just to shout. That's it.
I didn't know this part, but yeah.
Oh, really? No, no, didn't.
Oh, sorry. There.
(17:48):
Well, so that, so that, so basically, I actually went a few
days before the doorbell went live.
I went to a Simon's group event with Virgin, weird enough.
And he was just doing a talk andhe said Friday we're going to
launch 9:00. So I think I got there at 9:10.
And the only reason I was 10 past was because I bumped into
another founder that's just doneit as well.
And yeah, so I was like one of the first in it.
(18:08):
It was literally 60 seconds of your time and it's just
catapult. No.
Is this in Dubai or in? London.
No, this is London. Yeah, Yeah.
So, yeah, I've been in London for the last four years now.
So yeah, most, most things I talk about now will be just.
Drop the Dubai anymore. But yeah, so then fast forwards
a couple weeks later, Simon Squibb then re shared it to his
millions and millions of followers, my doorbell pitch,
(18:29):
which was amazing. That got us loads of followers.
It got loads of traction and just awareness about the
business, which was great. And then nothing really happened
for a few months. And then I got invited to a
round table at the Virgin Hotel for their new launch.
And I was, I was, you know, I was quite privileged to be
asked. Anyway, bear in mind the
business hasn't actually fully launched yet.
(18:50):
So I was like, this is amazing. And yeah, so I went in and they
miked me up. They put a camera on me.
And I just thought they were gonna be like, oh, and here's
Sunny, the founder of Sunny. And I walked in and it was
Richard Branson and Simon Squibb.
And they were like, surprised you've won the Elevator of
dreams. And I won the whole thing.
So I came on top out of 1200 founders.
So yeah. And then actually being able to
(19:12):
meet Sir Richards and have a chat with him and have a good
discussion about Sonny's, what we're doing.
He was saying he loved the pitch, he loves the business
idea. It was amazing.
It was, it was such a surreal experience.
Oh my. God I'm actually getting
goosebumps now as well. Yeah, I bet that's such a cool
achievement. Thank you.
Bad little button to do a round of applause.
I'll add one. We can add 1.
In yeah, I'll add one at the end.
That's so cool though. And I suppose a lot of founders
(19:33):
being one myself actually, you need validation sometimes or you
need that boost to say, go on, carry on.
Yeah. And that was honestly like, that
has just been a complete game changer because so many people
not only know about Sonny's, butthey know about me.
And obviously, as I mentioned, I'm new to hospitality.
This is a big, bold move that I'm doing.
I'm obviously trying to learn aswe go in front of that, but that
kind of give me credibility as well as a founder.
(19:55):
So that, yeah, the whole thing was just amazing.
And then I also won an hour withSimon Squibb as like a mental
hour. So that was great.
And yeah. And then it was a few days
later, I got like a message pop up on my Instagram like, oh,
Richard Branson wants to messageyou.
I was like, screenshot. I feel like I need to frame it.
This is like, it was so surreal.But no, yeah, it's the whole the
whole thing was amazing. It's give us.
Credibility is the business, it's give us, you know, a huge
(20:18):
endorsement. And yeah, just actually just
chatting about the business, more people are aware, aware of
it now and everyone asked me about it.
And actually the biggest thing that's been noticeable, so we're
currently raising money at the moment, hopefully nearly
finished actually we'll add. But the biggest thing that
changed from that is, you know, we pushed a bit of PR, we've
done a bit of press with it. And instead of me reaching out
(20:39):
to investors or reaching investors now or reaching out to
me and that's complete flip. So, you know, investors
sometimes like finally, it's so.Hard to do that bit.
Oh, it's a full time job. The other way round if you want
to yeah, yeah, if you happen to start from scratch imagine, you
know go door knocking and find these people who've got Angel
investors, whoever it might be. So that I think having that
because that they, they like that as well, right.
They want that kudos as well to say I'm involved with this, that
(20:59):
Mister Branson signed off on a. 100% So yeah to have the
business endorsed by you know 2 massive arguably one of the
biggest entrepreneurs in the world is yeah man quite he's.
Technical. That's the reason we're here.
There we go. He's affected full circle.
He doesn't even know he's affected me, but like at least
you met him. But no, but but and I really
respect he's a bit rock'n'roll as well.
Or was, you know, very rock'n'roll in the way.
But. And I really.
He's out there, right? He's bold.
(21:20):
Yeah, yeah, kind of and I appreciate people.
I think you have to be in business.
I think you fail more than you'll succeed probably.
But it's it's actually more likeyou learn quicker.
So I appreciate him. So what does that mean there
now. So obviously you've got, you've
had that sample of approval, youwent through that bit and then I
won't ask you how much you've raised, but you've raised money
now to move into your first siteor to.
(21:40):
So we're nearly there. So basically for so long it's
been like, oh, we're halfway there and then money's dropped
out. And I've for a long time I was
saying committed because it was committed.
And then technically we actuallyover committed the rounds.
And then again, that was like, oh, we might delay for a few
months and it was just trying toactually lock people.
A lot of people said, yes, they like, we love the business, but
(22:01):
locking people in and getting them to pay, it's been, it's
been a challenge. Another learning.
Exactly, exactly. And I think for anyone raising,
if they're starting out, I just think just prepare to for it to
take a lot longer than you thinkfor the the raise, because
again, it's, it's been amazing. Like even with.
Because timings for them I guessis important, right, In terms of
if they're giving you money, understanding their return,
understanding what their business is like at the time
(22:22):
they said yes to versus now whenyou need the cash.
Exactly. And look, the money we're
raising now is for the first sight, but we actually started
raising quite early on. So I've been doing this full
time about a year. And I didn't start raising
straight away. I was getting like the food
consultant in place and different advisors and
everything like that. And then a lot of those people
are speaking to, they're like, well, where's the food?
(22:43):
We want to see the food. I'm like, oh, that is actually
quite an important part of the business.
But I'm not a chef. So I was like, if I make it,
it's going to be awful. So we need the money to start
the food anyway. So, but what we've done was we
was able to bootstrap, so we went away.
We kind of paused around and went off, developed the food,
create the food. Back in February, had a food
tasting. The food looks amazing.
It tastes amazing. Have.
(23:03):
You done that with that, Have you used consultants?
How have? You yeah, another food
consultant as well. And then in the meantime of
that, I've managed to get some really amazing advisors on
board. So Shereen Richie from from
Leon, yeah, I feel like everyoneknows Shereen when I mention it.
And and also there's a guy called Mark Ward who he's got an
100% group free restaurant in Angel in North London.
So that's a restaurant but you know he's he's been very
(23:24):
successful from it and obviouslywanted to have them learning
from him as well. So yeah, he's going to help us
from the free from side, but yeah, we're also using that
Lumiere consultancy for our foodand they've been amazing.
They really have. And again, they really
understood it. And his daughter is gluten
intolerant. So that's.
Not the bakery, is it that the Lumiere bakery?
Not no, no different thing. Right.
No, that's he's got Ben Floyd. Oh, no.
OK. Fine, no, but she's.
(23:45):
Discovering people in the book. But yeah, so that's basically
that's, that's quite of our, our, our Forte of people around
us. And there's been a lot of other
people that have came in and said we'll help and, you know,
advice us and when. So that's been incredible.
But anyway, yeah, so we've, we've been able to get the, the
food ready. We initially actually done it
gluten free, nut free and everything dairy free.
(24:05):
However, unfortunately the dairyfree cheese is just not quite
there yet. And also it's still really
processed. And it's so when we're trying to
say like we're clean and we're fresh food.
And then you put this loads of processed food in and you're
like, OK, well, maybe we should do that as the core.
And then we can still remove it and change it for the allergies.
And, and so you can still cater for for people because there's,
there's a big correlation between gluten free and dairy
(24:26):
free. So yeah, I guess the messaging,
the marketing and the brand and side of it is something that's
gonna be an education as well. Yeah, you.
Know what this is the exciting bit though, Because I feel like
because I'm not seeing it from afood perspective, I'm seeing it
from a business perspective. And you're also a can I say
sufferer. But you lived it.
Yeah, but no. And you're looking at it from a
consumers angle rather than hostility angle because you'd
(24:47):
probably be tainted if you'd been in the business for 20 odd
years, right? And then do this, you'd probably
come at it from a very differentangle.
Whereas for as a consumer, you're probably looking to go,
what do I want to see? What?
What would make me eat there? Exactly.
And I've been able to speak to so many amazing people that are
gluten free and ask what they want.
So it's not just what I want. It's like what the community
wants. And then also just making such
good food that everyone wants it.
Like the idea is that you know we won't slap up gluten free on
(25:09):
the on the top of the sign as wewalk into the door like anyone
will. Just see it because you want to
make a brand, right? Yeah.
And not be pigeonholed, called into, but obviously people know
you for doing that. But at the same time, if I'm
gluten free or Celia, I want to,I want to go, I want to go out
for dinner like my mates. But I don't want to go to
someone that has a badge over itthat says I go here because I'm
special. You know, it needs to be no, but
it needs to feel like I go here because it's great.
(25:31):
Well this is the thing, right? I want everyone to be able to
eat at the same place. So like again, if if there's
someone that's gluten free and they go with a friend and a
friend isn't gluten free, they will be able to.
Eat Lots of sad people in a roomtogether.
Which is eating alone. Yeah, all on their own, like a
hotel lobby in midweek. Like people like me, But yeah,
no, but it's true. And I think that's what you
want, to create that space whereactually it's just a cool place
to eat. Yeah, cool place to eat.
(25:52):
We are delivering clean food, right?
Yeah. So it I think that's, that's the
key messaging and I think that'ssomething that people will
really resonate to and and your community will appreciate.
Yeah, like, and at the moment, obviously we're building that
through the core community. Like the people that I'm
speaking to, they're like, Oh myGod, getting free fast food.
I'm so excited. This is amazing.
We desperately need this. And then there's other people
going, Oh, well, my son's celiacor my daughter celiac, and then
(26:14):
you're going that we can't eat anywhere or we have to get
certain food accommodate for hers and then they'll be able to
all at the same place. So that's just amazing.
And that's the whole idea, to beable to make sure that everyone
can be. Together and is the model.
Build one, get it done, get it running, get proof of concept
and then say right, who wants toplay?
Basically, yeah. So well, interestingly enough, I
won't reveal too much, but we are, I am, I am in conversation
(26:35):
with someone to potentially already start raising for the
next 4 sites because there's people that really believe in
what we're doing, which is incredible.
I I think it's, I mean, I think it's a goer.
Thank you. Yeah.
No, not genuinely when we first met you, whenever that was a
while ago. And I I just think the world's
changed or should be changing, right.
And I think because I've been onthis autism journey with my son,
I know it. Again, it's not allergens, but
(26:57):
it's it's a minority issue wherepeople get put in buckets and
boxes and told to behave a certain way.
I think it's the same in food, right?
And we've never really dealt with it.
We've never really, no ones really addressed it because they
haven't seen the commerciality in it.
Let's be honest, that's the onlyreason, and probably some of the
fear of. Well, I think the biggest.
Negations of it. It's the operation side as well.
Like if you know, if some of thebig corporate companies decided
(27:19):
to turn around and go right, we're going to make everything
gluten free, they'll have to start like their whole supply
chain again. It makes you start from scratch.
Like Chuck all their kitchen stuff away like it's it's.
I think fresh food, so when colleges was doing it well or
trying their best to do it, it was everything was fresh every
day in the kitchen, so it was easier to manage.
So we could literally say this is that.
I think when you're ordering from, like you say through
(27:39):
supply chain and trying to do it, it's so hard to unpick.
But if you get it from like right from the beginning and
it's all safe and it's all clean.
Well, yeah, if you build for that purpose, yeah, 100%, which
is what you're going to do exactly.
And what and what does it look like?
Is this because we're on the tech podcast and I'm I'm what
does it look like in terms of tech or what's your plan?
Sure. So Will Connors was amazing.
(28:00):
What's Will Connors? Plan.
To be honest, he, he was honestly, he was amazing.
He, he literally, he went away and we, we had a chat about like
what would be best for the business And I'd already looked
at quite a few. And then he just sent me like
this, like this document that was like, this is what I think
you need. And I was like, this is
brilliant. And then he's done loads of
introduction. And then draw it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Finished.
You had a flow chart. I was like this is this is
perfect for free like that was. Interesting.
(28:22):
I think I think that's the point, right, that he loves his
tech, obviously, yeah, but also really cares about the industry
and cares about what it's doing.And yes, he's very invested and
I think, yeah, he's just a lovely man.
Yeah. So Will is Will is literally one
of the nicest guys in tech and in the industry.
So you've got so are you going Kiosk?
Are you going? How are you looking at it?
We're going to do both because so obviously I think especially
(28:43):
with all the labour costs etcetera going up, I think it's
smart to get kiosks in place andjust have that bigger outlay at
the beginning. But again, it's, it's saving the
labour. However, from an allergy point
of view, a lot of people want tospeak to people like face to
face as a person, you know, if they've got an allergy, they and
that's, that is actually one of the biggest frustrations right
now with kiosks. If it's not easy to navigate,
(29:05):
you're then going well, like, and I've just had to walk out
places because I'm sure they do do gluten free or can make it.
But if there's no one to speak to, yeah, that's an issue.
So like, I think there's a big part of the business that needs
to be tech and that's obviously the future.
Like, you know, who knows it'll all be running from technology
in the future? Probably most.
Likely, yeah, but I but you need.
That human interaction. Talk about at the start, right,
Hostile. You said everyone's hospitable
(29:25):
who I've met so far and it's so true.
And you know, I see your place with like a roving, you know,
like a roving allergen expert onthe floor, you know, someone
like, and that sounds crazy, butlike, but I love that you don't
need to be an expert, but you need to, you know, obviously if
you've been trained properly, like you said, you know,
everything. And it's just because at
McDonald's you have, there's a, there's always a lady or a guy
on the floor and they've often got a mopper.
And I, I actually think it's, yes, they're cleaning and
(29:48):
they're doing some bits, but I think it's a deliberate ploy to
table turn and to keep things moving, ticking because they
have to back in the day, less sonow because everything's going
out the back door. But I think, I think in your
scenario, having that Peace of Mind, that expert who just
wonders, they're just nice, right?
Yeah, they're just, and they probably clearing some tables
well, chat to people or whatever, but they've got,
imagine that having someone withultimate knowledge been on the
(30:11):
floor all the time and it's onlyone person.
You don't need more than you know. 1-2 maximum.
Yeah, and it's again, it's not going to be like a massive store
anyway. So again, there again, there'll
always be someone on hand. That's the aim to.
Have I think that's yeah and I think and I think for your
because of where this journey isright now, I think people will
need that comfort as well don't.They yeah, especially,
especially at the beginning, youknow, you've got a new place
again anyway, you go even if it says 100% gluten free, even I've
(30:33):
been to a quite a few restaurants and they're 100%
gluten free, you still have to ask like I'm celiac, I'm just.
Double checking. The problem is it's like, and
schooling it when there's one naughty kid, it ruins it for
everyone. So, yeah, as long as there's
going to be 1 restaurant that doesn't follow the rules and as
you say, everyone's saying they're doing all this stuff,
but actually as long as someone makes a mistake, then you're all
going to be tired of the same brush.
Yeah. So I think it's about your, your
(30:55):
whole brand will be about confidence, right.
The big thing about Sonny's willbe that it's like a confidence
play that everyone will be like,I love going there because I am
safe. Yeah, exactly.
The safe is the big word and that that is the biggest thing.
Like there's so many places out there that you just, we just
can't quite guarantee it and it's just not worth the risk
because at the end of the day, it's our health that's at risk
and it's just not worth it. And especially we see like, like
(31:16):
it kills you over time, right? So it's not like you can't just
have a little bit now and again.Immediacy in hospitality.
We want to see are you going to go now or are you going to be?
It's going to be a few weeks, Weneed to know now and what's the
plan then? How big?
How big? I mean, I suppose it's kind of
how long is a piece of string. Well, do you know what?
I love this question because I'mmaybe that crazy entrepreneur
that's going I can see one everywhere in the world, but
(31:37):
honestly, I can really see it inall major cities, but not
actually just the major cities. So we've we've already had again
before we've even opened, we've got demand in America,
Australia, France, Spain, Malta,Italy and Canada recently as
well. You know, people either wanted
to do a franchise or they're saying like we are desperate for
this business. And when you look at the numbers
of these places. It'd be good mate.
I think it will be for this, youknow, there's, there's and
(31:58):
there's just franchising, right.So we're going to probably do
free stores, make sure the modelworks, it works completely well,
you know, it runs smoothly, and then you can happily pass it
over to a franchise and they canrun it.
But we need to go through those teeming problems, make sure
everything's working right so that it's making money for the
franchise, but also, if not, it's not going to grow.
(32:18):
So yeah, we need to go through that personally ourselves.
But yeah, I can literally see iteverywhere.
And I say cities because again, actually that's the biggest
populations for for a lot of thecountries around the world.
But being from Ipswich, a relatively small town, it's not
tiny. But the biggest situation is
that a lot of things are in cities.
So then you're like, well, I'm celiac and I don't live in
(32:40):
London. I want to eat somewhere still.
So I think even just having smaller locations.
Scattered around even the stats like something crazy that the
increase in allergens is. I think you guys told me about
it on the panel. I can't, I don't know if you
remember what it was, but the increase in how allergens are
compared to even five years. Ago do you know what I so that
was even Alana the. Those two, the grads, yeah.
Oh, they, they've, they know their stats very, very well.
(33:02):
I know, I know. This was.
Eve, I think it was just like bam bam but.
Like drop it. But again, it's a it's a
personal experience, right? She's got a severe nut allergy.
So she's she's lived it and she's invested, passionate about
it. Yeah, exactly.
So, but like I'm I'm more from the a group of the nuts and the
and the dairy stats that I've looked at mainly, but all other
allergens as well, obviously arevery.
Important. But they're all in growth,
right? So it's the wrong way.
They're all. Going through the roof yeah.
(33:24):
And. And that might be because our
foods isn't, you know, fresh and.
Clean. So the reality is that actually
where there was a need in the cities, the suburbs will
eventually need it as well because the the.
They already need. It the cluster of people there
are, so I know already in my closed space, closed circle, I'd
say 25% of my good close friendsare have some kind of allergy.
(33:44):
So yeah. So it's, I think it's, it'll be
needed everywhere. I can see a Sonny's in Poncana
in Cardiff. I can see it everywhere,
literally where everywhere there's a demand will be there.
Like it's even the whole of UK, like even Scotlands, Irelands,
Wales, like all of them are going.
We are desperate for this and it's because it's needs and I
think that's the big difference between US and any other food,
right? Now it's a quick mate.
(34:05):
Well, it's what we're doing it come.
On people, give them, give them the money.
Look, we've run out of time, butI, I love chatting too.
It's always, I think it's fascinating because I think it's
such a great thing to do. For a start, I think it's great
because you're personally invested and we, you know, even
Alana, we all met together a while ago and they're also
invested. I think it's just great to see
young people going after it Godly.
I'm saying young people, I'm really getting old.
If people want to get hold of you and give you some money,
(34:27):
what's the best way to get hold of you?
So I've got. Any tech investors listening
here by the way or people VCs dialling in listening.
Please have a chat with Sonny because as you've heard on the
last half an hour cracking concept and I think he could
probably give you a return quitequickly.
So sorry mate, how do they get ahold?
Of you, yeah, No, and I'd actually just add to that as
well, like obviously we haven't in terms of the tech, obviously
we've looked at quite a few. You're still open.
(34:47):
It's like the violence. Yeah, if I see something
amazing, I'll consider it, put it that way.
You get about 55 emails. Come on right your way now.
Well, won't give me an e-mail, but no, I think you basically
the best way to find is Sunny the celiac.
So that's with Sunny with an O and that's my personal page
where I'm showing the founder journey and the story and a bit
more behind the scenes stuff. Sunny's under score food is the
(35:08):
Instagram around the TikTok and if not LinkedIn, Sunny wells
SONMY. Mate, lovely to see you.
What are your plans for the restof?
The day meetings back-to-back asyou can imagine, always raising
exactly it never stops. I might sleep in about two
years. You've got.
Shereen, she's really quiet as well, and she's God, you could
have picked. She's got a lot of energy.
She has, oh, that's actually whyI got on board.
(35:28):
I saw her at lunch and I, I didn't approach it.
I actually approached her just to chat and I was like her
energy on the stage. I was like, she's a.
People, she did our very first service event in BrewDog where
we take over the whole thing. Right now.
She was the only one to arrive by the slide.
I don't really in Waterloo. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been in
there. I normally do the grind, yeah.
That's right. So she she came down this we've
got a great picture of her doingthis coming out there.
(35:49):
And the rest of the panelists sit on the stage waiting for a
game. OK, that's brilliant.
But that's just her, right. I think she worked the London
Underground or something. Oh, really?
Yeah. She she's not from this world.
She not in that way, but she's but she she worked the London
Underground. She I remember talking about
saying that she was surrounded by guys all the time and very
much she was, she was like kind of like the only woman kind and
beaten back on them. But you see that in her, right?
(36:10):
She's and this is what fights. Her new venture is as well now.
Yeah, obviously helping. Oh, the mentoring.
Yeah, yeah. Which is amazing.
And and again that is, you know,even coming into the world like
it is a mainly male dominated space.
So to see more women coming up. I've got a daughter I'm
scrapping like all the rest are trying to find.
You know the and I think we can we hire.
I've never even talked about this open as well but we hire
mostly women in tech on toast because same reason.
(36:31):
Hadn't bought that actually, yeah.
Yeah, because, well, because it's infiltrating.
We want to infiltrate the tech space a little bit because it's
not very many female founders atall.
Apart from that's why I made such a fuss around even Alana
because they are rare. And they're smashing it.
Yeah, and they do them and because they've got great
products, not about because they're men or women, it's
because they've got great product.
Like you've got a great product.So anyway, very cool.
Say hi to Richard when you see him next to Richard.
(36:53):
And I'll tell him. I'll text him and tell him
thanks, but thanks very much. That was Sunny Wells, everybody.
And Sunny's coming to a High Street near you soon.
Thank you, Chris.
Welcome to Techinto's podcast, the show that connects
hospitality with technology, oneslice at a time.
I'm your host, Chris Fletcher, and each week we're joined by
the sharpest minds in the industry, from operators and
founders to tech pioneers, to uncover the tools, trends, and
stories shaping the future of hostility.
This season is brought to you byDeliberate, the trusted order
management platform helping thousands of hostility
businesses streamline service, reduce errors, and serve up
(00:23):
better guest experiences. Whether you're scaling dark
kitchens or managing multiple brands, Deliberate helps you
connect your channels and power our performance.
All right, let's get to it coming up on this week's Tech on
Toast podcast. Where I got like a message pop
up on my Instagram like Richard Branson wants to message you.
I was like screenshot. I feel like I need to frame it
like I always wanted to help in the space of celiacs and gluten
(00:43):
free people. Actually just started Sonny's
about a year and a half ago. So we're I had the idea about
six years ago. I actually had it in.
Dubai someone came in and said they were celiac.
Like emergency kit, Yeah. No, we break it out.
Literally. It was.
It was. The symptoms were getting worse.
The doctors had no idea and thenhad a whole issue with actually
getting diagnosed and I had a knot in my intestines.
(01:04):
My stomach nearly exploded. Is actually why I'm doing the
business because no one else wasdoing it.
Like again, I wasn't in hospitality.
You know, I've, I've had to completely learn everything from
scratch. But there's a lot of places that
say they're gluten free but aren't actually gluten.
Free. It's a problem to been around
forever. How are you tackling it?
The gluten. Free element that that is the
core and we'll try and help as many other allergies.
As so you almost be like sterile.
(01:25):
My girlfriend actually has a sphere nut allergy so we don't
get tried out very often. When it was like gluten free was
a fat and then people were having gluten.
Free like it was a diet. That 13% the UK and now on
gluten free diet because it kills us over time.
He wants to take it seriously. Really.
And you've had some famous involvement so far.
Have to bring him up. Instead of me reaching out to
investors, investors now reaching out to me.
(01:47):
It's like a confidence play everyone would be like, I love
going there because I am safe. Welcome to the next episode of
Tekken, to his podcast. And today I'm delighted to be
joined by Sunny Wells, founder of Sunny.
See what I did there? Thank you very much.
Very simple. Hello, how are you mate?
I'm all good. I'm all good.
Good to see you. Well, I'm yeah, it's a bit crazy
today, but welcome to ball, boss.
What do you think? I absolutely love it, It's a
really nice studio. Looks really nice office as
well. Yeah, yeah, it's about how I
(02:08):
roll, mate. Only hanger we need to do the
best the house and ball boss That's that's.
True. There's two places, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I'm like the the poorest rich man.
You'll know anyway, mate, How are you?
And tell us before we get into everything.
Yeah. How's how's life been?
Like the last time I saw you wasproperly was Tech Expo I think,
and then I saw you at dinner. I think dinner a couple months
ago with all the tech clock wasn't it?
(02:28):
That's right. So thanks for being here.
How was that that? Was brilliant.
That was really helpful. I feel like at the end of the
table there was just everyone. Just.
Giving me free advice, William Connors didn't.
You. Yeah.
Oh, he's been amazing. He's just giving me so much
advice and I, I was looking through the list of you had on
the podcast. It was #1 I think.
That's right. Yeah.
He was. Will was was the episode.
I think he was, yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty sure when I
looked yesterday. He's a great supporter and he's
a lovely chap as well, which youfound out.
(02:48):
Yeah, and he was giving me so much free advice.
And I feel like that's what I found so quickly in the
hospitality space. Like, I'm new to it and people
like, will have just come in andjust given as much advice as
possible for free and everyone wants to help.
It's amazing and very hospitable, yeah.
That's what we do, right? I think we care about people
before everything else, which often doesn't make money, which
is part of the problem. We're all too nice being nice to
(03:09):
each other rather than being evil, cynical capitalists.
But anyway, tell us a little bitabout you before we get into
Sonny's. Tell us a little bit about your
back story so people understand who you are.
Oh, my back story. Well, so how long you, how long
you got long? So I'm originally from Ipswich.
I'm 33. I feel like when I first said
that to you, you were like, I thought you were like 20
something. So I'm clearly moisturized Well,
(03:33):
and to be honest, if I, if I shave the beard off, I'd look
about 14. So it's it's good that it's.
Good mate. Own it, right?
I'm I've just reached a certain pivotal age in my life where
everything is depressing. So yeah, just just own it.
Or enjoy it when it lasts. Yeah.
So yeah, it's no. Originally from Ipswich, I was
there for most of my life, didn't go to uni or anything
like that. However, went into trying to
(03:56):
work, done college and then she actually went to be a gas
engineer working with my dad, worked with that.
I worked with him for two years and just wasn't for me, didn't
suit me. Then went into a state agency,
which for my sins and and then, yeah, was in that for a few
(04:16):
years and and during that time was getting diagnosed with
celiac. So I'm sure we'll get into that
in a second. But yeah, basically after that
move to Dubai was over in Dubai for five.
Years. Sorry, you just went from being
the state agent to go into Dubai.
A state agent in Dubai. Oh, right.
OK, OK, fair enough. So.
Yeah, an opportunity came up andI I couldn't say no when I was,
(04:37):
I was just turned 22 when I moved out.
So yeah, it was. That's quite an.
Experience isn't it for someone to kind of.
Yeah, it was a it was a bold move and I definitely don't
regret it in any way, shape or form.
Like it set me up for life in some ways, unfortunately, not
necessarily the money, but it's,it's definitely helped me in, in
so many ways. You know, you, you meet so many
different people, you meet different cultures, meet how
(04:58):
different cultures do business, how business works.
And you just get to see a whole other side of the world whilst
living in the sunshine near the beach.
So yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't all bad.
And then, yeah, I came back during COVID and then I moved to
London about a year later. And yes, since then, basically
just started Sonny's about a year and a half ago.
(05:19):
So we're, we're, I had the idea about six years ago.
I actually had it in Dubai and Ihad it when I was at AJ Shetty
concert randomly. Wasn't meant to be there.
And it was, I went for someone else and yeah, just got
inspiration there. And then it was like, I always
wanted to help in in the space of celiacs and gluten free
people. And then, yeah, had the
inspiration there. And then since then there's kind
(05:41):
of been in the background, it's been eaten away at me.
And then when I moved to London,I was like, I still can't eat.
My friend in Cargo, trust me. And when it's not Sunny's, it'll
be something else. Yeah, yeah, you've got the drug.
A few people have said that as well, like once you've got it,
you can't stop. Yeah, it's very weird.
Yeah, And your partners will suffer, your family will suffer,
but you'll be fine. Well, here's the rest of the
(06:02):
entrepreneurial world. So yeah, basically, but since
I've moved to London, yeah, I just, I just couldn't eat
anything. So for context, I'm celiac and
This is why I'm doing business. So I'm doing the business that I
am. So I, I had a nightmare
diagnosis during the time. So I had when I first got
diagnosed or when I first had anissue, I was about 18.
I eventually got diagnosed at 22.
(06:23):
So literally just before I movedto Dubai and within the four
years, it was like agony back and forth was just, the whole
thing was a nightmare. The the symptoms were getting
worse. The doctors had no idea.
And then I had a whole issue of actually getting diagnosed and I
had a knot in my intestines, my stomach nearly exploded, all
from celiac. And that is as soon as you get
(06:45):
diagnosed, it affects every day of your life.
You know, it's, it's not, it's not just your meals, it's, it's
everything. Else it's almost like you don't
want to know, right, because, but obviously you need to know
because you're ill, but or you're or you're being made ill
and you don't know why. But then all of a sudden when
you do know, it's this whole newworld, isn't it?
And and you're on a panel with me, with the girls who run
served right, who are doing great.
Aren't even Alana. Yeah, they're doing amazing.
(07:05):
Even Alana are like a rocket ship.
They like no one can stop. I mean, I remember that day at
the trade show. They're like, where you going?
We're going to go get people. I was like, OK, they meant it.
But they're doing great with Deshume Hawks more now and.
Saw that? Yeah.
Really good stuff, but we were talking about the ability to
live with what you've got and even though we fit in the
restaurant space, I feel like it's talked about a lot these
(07:27):
days. But it's not really still being
dealt with, is it? In a in a really safe manner, I
suppose. No, I agree.
And I love what the girls are doing as well.
And there's there's a few of those sort of businesses popping
up with health and allergies andI just absolutely love to see
it. And it's it's because the
hospitality space needs it. Because unfortunately, some
places are absolutely amazing, but majority aren't.
And I think that's the case for when we look at technology
(07:50):
across the board. I think there's some real great
use cases in some examples and some really poor ones and
others. And I think that is hospitality
and Nutshell, unfortunately, that it's very hard to be
consistent if it's not your coreproduct.
Got you. Yeah, OK, that's, that's good to
know because I mean, I'm still learning hospitality anyway.
As I said, brand new to it. Well, you know, as we go very
quick, Carluccio's, we were the first people to be gluten
(08:11):
friendly. Gluten free friendly.
That sounds terrible. We had a gluten free print out
menu, right? We had emergency kits in the
kitchen. So if someone came in and said
they were celiac. Like emergency kits, you say?
No, we'd break it out. Literally.
It was, it was sealed. Yeah, it was sealed in a box in
the kitchen. So someone come in.
So we'd have to have a clean pan, clean everything, you know,
separate burner. Everything was done because we
(08:31):
were very, I'm passionate about getting it right.
And we also saw the opportunity 10 years ago, 15 years ago
actually, of that community not getting served properly.
So we saw a commercial reason and, and obviously a bit of a
brand reason to do it properly. And still we would, we hurt some
people accidentally entirely obviously and through human
error, whatever it might be. But it just shows how hard it is
(08:52):
to police and, and manage. So but yeah, it's so it's, it's
a problem. It's been around forever.
How are you tackling it? Good question.
So basically we're going to havethe whole business is gluten
free and also completely nut free.
So no make contains anything like that.
So the whole supply chain, wholekitchen is completely free.
We're also going to be able to make everything dairy free.
So we'll have a separate area ofthe kitchen.
(09:14):
But in terms of the gluten free element, that is the core and
we'll try and help as many otherallergies.
As we see. So you all must be like sterile.
Yeah. So it's someone who's.
Got there is no cross. Celiac, you can walk in there
fully confident that actually we're OK in here.
Yeah, which must be is a huge opportunity.
Yes, yeah. So you think no one else take
(09:35):
it? Yeah, No, look, this is actually
why I'm doing the business, because no one else was doing
it. And like again, I wasn't in
hospitality, you know, I've, I've had to completely learn
everything from scratch and it'sbecause I'm passionate about it,
because I can't eat anything. Like if you go into restaurants,
like I said, Carluccio's, actually when I was in Dubai,
Carluccio's was one of the the go to's because they did cater
really, really well. And so I've, I've had a lot of
(09:56):
Carluccios in my time. Me too, but again, like there,
there really wasn't many restaurants that were catering
for it. And unless you were going to
like higher end restaurants or spending money or even just
actually having a sit down meal and you don't always have time.
And especially in in real estateand estate agency, you don't
really have time. You're in between you're on
viewings or in meetings or evaluations, whatever you might
(10:17):
be. So you're permanently on the go
and I couldn't eat on the go. So unless you're bringing like a
sandwich to work or a salad, like you just can't eat.
So unless you're prepared, you can't eat anything.
And I honestly thought when I moved back to the UK and I moved
to London, I honestly thought I'd be able to eat better.
And I won't name any names, but there's a lot of places that say
they're gluten free but aren't actually gluten free.
(10:39):
That's the cost contamination. And as you said, like with
college chairs, like you have tohave vociferous, you have to
have super pans. It's crazy.
That people put a blanket acrossit and I might be wrong saying
this. I think people tick a box on us
saying we've done the training. There is a process in place in
the restaurant. So we know flag the manager.
So my son works at pizza pilgrims, right?
And I asked him about it the dayI said, what do you do if
someone comes in with an allergy?
(11:00):
You don't know, like no offense shape, but you know you're not
the shop is still in the box, but because that's like he's
very book smart, but he's not you know, so you need to be
quite smart on your feet for that kind of stuff to actually
understand what the customer's telling you and it so they're
all you know, they're all and I think this is right that anybody
who mentions that word straight away managers brought to the
table, it's dealt with. There's a process that follows.
(11:21):
So I think some people do take it very seriously.
I think everybody probably understands the seriousness, but
I think it falls down the food chain.
So once you like any process, right?
Like sat in the table, some people do it better than others,
some people follow the procedure, someone take a
shortcut. I think they do the same with
allergens unfortunately. Do you know what?
Someone gave me a really good description the other day and
like how it works in restaurants.
(11:41):
If it is like the wait or a waitress and then they tell the
manager and then they tell the chef, it's like Chinese
whispers. By the time he gets to the chef,
it's. It's oh, that bloke's got an
allergy. Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. I might die if I eat this.
Yeah, exactly. And like, you know, especially,
and a lot of the time managers do come over, have the chat,
which is great because but when I walk in a restaurant, I always
have to have a like a tick list in my head to go, OK, if I've
(12:03):
called up before and they understand it and they
understand what celiac is, it's not just gluten free.
Again, it's not analogies or immunities.
Hopefully people understand that.
And then once you're actually inthe branch or the store, do the
does the waitro waiter or waitress understand it?
If not, does the manager understand it?
If not, does the chef understandit?
And the amount of times I've hadto walk out of restaurants
because they don't understand it.
(12:24):
I think that's the worry and theproblem we've got is that we
have a very high churn, right? So lots of people come and go in
restaurants. It's a transient business and we
have lots of employees for no, for no one's fault, right?
It's always been the way. And I don't care what anyone
says, it's an Evergreen problem.It's always been that way.
And Mike, in the 30 years I've been around it, people come and
go. And the problem with that, a new
person will start, and unless your training is absolutely
slick and robust and that person's fully educated before
(12:47):
they touch a kitchen utensil, they're going to cause a problem
in, in your scenario, a. 100% And this is the thing like This
is why we're going to be so heavy on training because if
someone doesn't understand, because if someone hasn't got so
obviously if they're if they're gluten free or the celiac, they
don't have to worry if they're not allergy, they haven't got to
worry if they're dairy free, we obviously need to take
precautions like we said. And then if there's any other
allergies, that person with allergies is already going in
(13:10):
somewhere worried like they're already, they're already
nervous, so. I was going to say the dining
experience for you in a in today, wandering around London
wherever you go must be pretty shit.
It's a. Nightmare like you can't eat
anything. Honestly, Chris, it's, it's
ridiculous. Like going out for dinner with
your mates, for instance. Or just go in somewhere with a
friend or a girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever.
You sit there and you must think, thinking I'm not excited
about this. Well, no.
(13:31):
And and to add a spanner in the works and my my girlfriend
actually has a severe nut allergy so.
We don't get. Tired out very often, but you
know it's. Sorry, we're laughing about it
because we're we're. No, but you'd have to have a bit
of humour about it because it is.
It is so hard to live with. You shouldn't know, but.
That's the thing that it actually, it actually gets to
the point where it's frustrating, right?
It is frustrating. Oh, it's painful and very, but
(13:53):
it's also it can be solved yes and you've and I presume you
must feel like. So my son's autistic, right?
And I, when we go to certain things or do certain things, I
feel like he should be accommodated.
But it's almost a similar conversation that Oh, yeah.
But he's one. And there's another hundred who
don't need that attention. So we cater for the 100.
I get it. Yeah.
But for in your case, it's life or death.
(14:14):
Potentially. Well, yeah, exactly.
And look, The thing is we've Cedac.
I think this is the the other big issue is because with nuts
or like an anaphylactic reaction, people can die in the
restaurant. So restaurants are like, Oh my
God, can't, can't give them nuts.
They'll die. Whereas if it's gluten because
it kills us over time, you mustn't take it seriously
because and also there was a thebig issue as well was when it
(14:37):
was like gluten free was a fad and then people were having
gluten free. Like it was a diet.
Yeah, you know, and then it's like, and don't go wrong.
There's so many health benefits to actually eat gluten free.
And I went boy stuff today aboutit.
But you look great, man. Well, I said, you're about 20
years bigger than you are. It's because of the gluten.
Exactly. There we go.
But look, I think when you go into these places and you say
I'm gluten free and then you eata bit of bread, that's when I
(15:00):
think a lot of people will go, oh, it's not as serious, but it
is. And then, you know, celiac
disease, there's 100 people, but13% of the UK are now on a
gluten free diet. So not all of them are celiac,
but there's so many people that have to avoid it for other
medical reasons that are just trying to be healthier or, you
know, they, they physically can't eat it.
So that is in that that proportion of the market is
getting bigger. But going back to what we were
(15:20):
saying like with the with the places that are catering for at
the moment, I think a lot of places just trying to capitalize
on it and just say, oh, we're gluten free because they're
getting another market in, but they're actually not safe.
It's a risk, not. Gluten free, it's actually a
risk because the commerciality that we've mentioned at the
start there that the opportunityto find these people who can't
frequent restaurants because they don't trust them or don't
feel happy enough to outline them is an opportunity for
(15:41):
restaurants that are struggling to make money, right.
So the so they would look at it thinking actually, I mean, I
don't know how cynical they are,but you know, it's an
opportunity, right? I get it.
Yeah. And with Sonny's and Sonny's is
going to is it a QSR fast? How how do you QSR.
You're sitting in that vertical so it's going to be come in
yeah, grab your food exactly. And you can stay in and eat or.
Yeah, we're going to have like some seats, but it is going to
(16:02):
be, you know, the aim of fast food.
The thing is, I actually as it as times going on, I don't
actually like the word fast foodbecause everyone instantly
thinks of bad food. And we're trying to be fresh,
clean, healthier food. You know, we're not going to be
helpful. We're doing toasted sandwiches,
fries, milkshakes, but it's clean food and that's a big
difference and it's fresh. So instead of it, you know,
there's, you know, certain burger chains that don't their,
(16:25):
their food doesn't go off for 30years there, you know, there's
that food should go off. They still probably.
So yeah. So we aren't, we're doing that
movement as well. But the idea is to be, yeah,
fast food. Really.
And and you've had some famous involvement so far have to bring
him up. It's.
Been amazing. And actually the one, I've only
ever read one book in my life, right?
And it was his book. Richard Brown.
Yeah, because the reason I builtTech on Toast, the way I built
(16:46):
it, I don't really tell people many of this actually, but it's
because when he built, when he built Virgin Records, he's just,
I think his first business, he noticed the fact that you needed
multiple revenue streams to support if one, if it wasn't
doing well, something else because he got hit and something
he lost a load of money. So when I built this on a very
much smaller scale, I thought I need different revenue streams
just in case one bit doesn't work.
(17:06):
And actually it's turned out to be really helpful because they
all kind of help each other. But no, it's really interesting.
Tell us about your experience with Mr. Branson.
Oh well, yeah, it's quite some. Real the celebs.
As you do, you know, no, the whole thing was there's a, an
amazing experience. So back in January, for context,
so there was a partnership that Simon Squibb got from Help Bank
(17:27):
and Sir Richard Branson from Virgin.
They'd done a partnership where they were doing a doorbell, so
literally like a, a Ring doorbell in the Virgin Hotel.
And they would get entrepreneursand founders to come to the
doorbell, say what the business is, either how they can help or
just to shout. That's it.
I didn't know this part, but yeah.
Oh, really? No, no, didn't.
Oh, sorry. There.
(17:48):
Well, so that, so that, so basically, I actually went a few
days before the doorbell went live.
I went to a Simon's group event with Virgin, weird enough.
And he was just doing a talk andhe said Friday we're going to
launch 9:00. So I think I got there at 9:10.
And the only reason I was 10 past was because I bumped into
another founder that's just doneit as well.
And yeah, so I was like one of the first in it.
(18:08):
It was literally 60 seconds of your time and it's just
catapult. No.
Is this in Dubai or in? London.
No, this is London. Yeah, Yeah.
So, yeah, I've been in London for the last four years now.
So yeah, most, most things I talk about now will be just.
Drop the Dubai anymore. But yeah, so then fast forwards
a couple weeks later, Simon Squibb then re shared it to his
millions and millions of followers, my doorbell pitch,
(18:29):
which was amazing. That got us loads of followers.
It got loads of traction and just awareness about the
business, which was great. And then nothing really happened
for a few months. And then I got invited to a
round table at the Virgin Hotel for their new launch.
And I was, I was, you know, I was quite privileged to be
asked. Anyway, bear in mind the
business hasn't actually fully launched yet.
(18:50):
So I was like, this is amazing. And yeah, so I went in and they
miked me up. They put a camera on me.
And I just thought they were gonna be like, oh, and here's
Sunny, the founder of Sunny. And I walked in and it was
Richard Branson and Simon Squibb.
And they were like, surprised you've won the Elevator of
dreams. And I won the whole thing.
So I came on top out of 1200 founders.
So yeah. And then actually being able to
(19:12):
meet Sir Richards and have a chat with him and have a good
discussion about Sonny's, what we're doing.
He was saying he loved the pitch, he loves the business
idea. It was amazing.
It was, it was such a surreal experience.
Oh my. God I'm actually getting
goosebumps now as well. Yeah, I bet that's such a cool
achievement. Thank you.
Bad little button to do a round of applause.
I'll add one. We can add 1.
In yeah, I'll add one at the end.
That's so cool though. And I suppose a lot of founders
(19:33):
being one myself actually, you need validation sometimes or you
need that boost to say, go on, carry on.
Yeah. And that was honestly like, that
has just been a complete game changer because so many people
not only know about Sonny's, butthey know about me.
And obviously, as I mentioned, I'm new to hospitality.
This is a big, bold move that I'm doing.
I'm obviously trying to learn aswe go in front of that, but that
kind of give me credibility as well as a founder.
(19:55):
So that, yeah, the whole thing was just amazing.
And then I also won an hour withSimon Squibb as like a mental
hour. So that was great.
And yeah. And then it was a few days
later, I got like a message pop up on my Instagram like, oh,
Richard Branson wants to messageyou.
I was like, screenshot. I feel like I need to frame it.
This is like, it was so surreal.But no, yeah, it's the whole the
whole thing was amazing. It's give us.
Credibility is the business, it's give us, you know, a huge
(20:18):
endorsement. And yeah, just actually just
chatting about the business, more people are aware, aware of
it now and everyone asked me about it.
And actually the biggest thing that's been noticeable, so we're
currently raising money at the moment, hopefully nearly
finished actually we'll add. But the biggest thing that
changed from that is, you know, we pushed a bit of PR, we've
done a bit of press with it. And instead of me reaching out
(20:39):
to investors or reaching investors now or reaching out to
me and that's complete flip. So, you know, investors
sometimes like finally, it's so.Hard to do that bit.
Oh, it's a full time job. The other way round if you want
to yeah, yeah, if you happen to start from scratch imagine, you
know go door knocking and find these people who've got Angel
investors, whoever it might be. So that I think having that
because that they, they like that as well, right.
They want that kudos as well to say I'm involved with this, that
(20:59):
Mister Branson signed off on a. 100% So yeah to have the
business endorsed by you know 2 massive arguably one of the
biggest entrepreneurs in the world is yeah man quite he's.
Technical. That's the reason we're here.
There we go. He's affected full circle.
He doesn't even know he's affected me, but like at least
you met him. But no, but but and I really
respect he's a bit rock'n'roll as well.
Or was, you know, very rock'n'roll in the way.
But. And I really.
He's out there, right? He's bold.
(21:20):
Yeah, yeah, kind of and I appreciate people.
I think you have to be in business.
I think you fail more than you'll succeed probably.
But it's it's actually more likeyou learn quicker.
So I appreciate him. So what does that mean there
now. So obviously you've got, you've
had that sample of approval, youwent through that bit and then I
won't ask you how much you've raised, but you've raised money
now to move into your first siteor to.
(21:40):
So we're nearly there. So basically for so long it's
been like, oh, we're halfway there and then money's dropped
out. And I've for a long time I was
saying committed because it was committed.
And then technically we actuallyover committed the rounds.
And then again, that was like, oh, we might delay for a few
months and it was just trying toactually lock people.
A lot of people said, yes, they like, we love the business, but
(22:01):
locking people in and getting them to pay, it's been, it's
been a challenge. Another learning.
Exactly, exactly. And I think for anyone raising,
if they're starting out, I just think just prepare to for it to
take a lot longer than you thinkfor the the raise, because
again, it's, it's been amazing. Like even with.
Because timings for them I guessis important, right, In terms of
if they're giving you money, understanding their return,
understanding what their business is like at the time
(22:22):
they said yes to versus now whenyou need the cash.
Exactly. And look, the money we're
raising now is for the first sight, but we actually started
raising quite early on. So I've been doing this full
time about a year. And I didn't start raising
straight away. I was getting like the food
consultant in place and different advisors and
everything like that. And then a lot of those people
are speaking to, they're like, well, where's the food?
(22:43):
We want to see the food. I'm like, oh, that is actually
quite an important part of the business.
But I'm not a chef. So I was like, if I make it,
it's going to be awful. So we need the money to start
the food anyway. So, but what we've done was we
was able to bootstrap, so we went away.
We kind of paused around and went off, developed the food,
create the food. Back in February, had a food
tasting. The food looks amazing.
It tastes amazing. Have.
(23:03):
You done that with that, Have you used consultants?
How have? You yeah, another food
consultant as well. And then in the meantime of
that, I've managed to get some really amazing advisors on
board. So Shereen Richie from from
Leon, yeah, I feel like everyoneknows Shereen when I mention it.
And and also there's a guy called Mark Ward who he's got an
100% group free restaurant in Angel in North London.
So that's a restaurant but you know he's he's been very
(23:24):
successful from it and obviouslywanted to have them learning
from him as well. So yeah, he's going to help us
from the free from side, but yeah, we're also using that
Lumiere consultancy for our foodand they've been amazing.
They really have. And again, they really
understood it. And his daughter is gluten
intolerant. So that's.
Not the bakery, is it that the Lumiere bakery?
Not no, no different thing. Right.
No, that's he's got Ben Floyd. Oh, no.
OK. Fine, no, but she's.
(23:45):
Discovering people in the book. But yeah, so that's basically
that's, that's quite of our, our, our Forte of people around
us. And there's been a lot of other
people that have came in and said we'll help and, you know,
advice us and when. So that's been incredible.
But anyway, yeah, so we've, we've been able to get the, the
food ready. We initially actually done it
gluten free, nut free and everything dairy free.
(24:05):
However, unfortunately the dairyfree cheese is just not quite
there yet. And also it's still really
processed. And it's so when we're trying to
say like we're clean and we're fresh food.
And then you put this loads of processed food in and you're
like, OK, well, maybe we should do that as the core.
And then we can still remove it and change it for the allergies.
And, and so you can still cater for for people because there's,
there's a big correlation between gluten free and dairy
(24:26):
free. So yeah, I guess the messaging,
the marketing and the brand and side of it is something that's
gonna be an education as well. Yeah, you.
Know what this is the exciting bit though, Because I feel like
because I'm not seeing it from afood perspective, I'm seeing it
from a business perspective. And you're also a can I say
sufferer. But you lived it.
Yeah, but no. And you're looking at it from a
consumers angle rather than hostility angle because you'd
(24:47):
probably be tainted if you'd been in the business for 20 odd
years, right? And then do this, you'd probably
come at it from a very differentangle.
Whereas for as a consumer, you're probably looking to go,
what do I want to see? What?
What would make me eat there? Exactly.
And I've been able to speak to so many amazing people that are
gluten free and ask what they want.
So it's not just what I want. It's like what the community
wants. And then also just making such
good food that everyone wants it.
Like the idea is that you know we won't slap up gluten free on
(25:09):
the on the top of the sign as wewalk into the door like anyone
will. Just see it because you want to
make a brand, right? Yeah.
And not be pigeonholed, called into, but obviously people know
you for doing that. But at the same time, if I'm
gluten free or Celia, I want to,I want to go, I want to go out
for dinner like my mates. But I don't want to go to
someone that has a badge over itthat says I go here because I'm
special. You know, it needs to be no, but
it needs to feel like I go here because it's great.
(25:31):
Well this is the thing, right? I want everyone to be able to
eat at the same place. So like again, if if there's
someone that's gluten free and they go with a friend and a
friend isn't gluten free, they will be able to.
Eat Lots of sad people in a roomtogether.
Which is eating alone. Yeah, all on their own, like a
hotel lobby in midweek. Like people like me, But yeah,
no, but it's true. And I think that's what you
want, to create that space whereactually it's just a cool place
to eat. Yeah, cool place to eat.
(25:52):
We are delivering clean food, right?
Yeah. So it I think that's, that's the
key messaging and I think that'ssomething that people will
really resonate to and and your community will appreciate.
Yeah, like, and at the moment, obviously we're building that
through the core community. Like the people that I'm
speaking to, they're like, Oh myGod, getting free fast food.
I'm so excited. This is amazing.
We desperately need this. And then there's other people
going, Oh, well, my son's celiacor my daughter celiac, and then
(26:14):
you're going that we can't eat anywhere or we have to get
certain food accommodate for hers and then they'll be able to
all at the same place. So that's just amazing.
And that's the whole idea, to beable to make sure that everyone
can be. Together and is the model.
Build one, get it done, get it running, get proof of concept
and then say right, who wants toplay?
Basically, yeah. So well, interestingly enough, I
won't reveal too much, but we are, I am, I am in conversation
(26:35):
with someone to potentially already start raising for the
next 4 sites because there's people that really believe in
what we're doing, which is incredible.
I I think it's, I mean, I think it's a goer.
Thank you. Yeah.
No, not genuinely when we first met you, whenever that was a
while ago. And I I just think the world's
changed or should be changing, right.
And I think because I've been onthis autism journey with my son,
I know it. Again, it's not allergens, but
(26:57):
it's it's a minority issue wherepeople get put in buckets and
boxes and told to behave a certain way.
I think it's the same in food, right?
And we've never really dealt with it.
We've never really, no ones really addressed it because they
haven't seen the commerciality in it.
Let's be honest, that's the onlyreason, and probably some of the
fear of. Well, I think the biggest.
Negations of it. It's the operation side as well.
Like if you know, if some of thebig corporate companies decided
(27:19):
to turn around and go right, we're going to make everything
gluten free, they'll have to start like their whole supply
chain again. It makes you start from scratch.
Like Chuck all their kitchen stuff away like it's it's.
I think fresh food, so when colleges was doing it well or
trying their best to do it, it was everything was fresh every
day in the kitchen, so it was easier to manage.
So we could literally say this is that.
I think when you're ordering from, like you say through
(27:39):
supply chain and trying to do it, it's so hard to unpick.
But if you get it from like right from the beginning and
it's all safe and it's all clean.
Well, yeah, if you build for that purpose, yeah, 100%, which
is what you're going to do exactly.
And what and what does it look like?
Is this because we're on the tech podcast and I'm I'm what
does it look like in terms of tech or what's your plan?
Sure. So Will Connors was amazing.
(28:00):
What's Will Connors? Plan.
To be honest, he, he was honestly, he was amazing.
He, he literally, he went away and we, we had a chat about like
what would be best for the business And I'd already looked
at quite a few. And then he just sent me like
this, like this document that was like, this is what I think
you need. And I was like, this is
brilliant. And then he's done loads of
introduction. And then draw it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Finished.
You had a flow chart. I was like this is this is
perfect for free like that was. Interesting.
(28:22):
I think I think that's the point, right, that he loves his
tech, obviously, yeah, but also really cares about the industry
and cares about what it's doing.And yes, he's very invested and
I think, yeah, he's just a lovely man.
Yeah. So Will is Will is literally one
of the nicest guys in tech and in the industry.
So you've got so are you going Kiosk?
Are you going? How are you looking at it?
We're going to do both because so obviously I think especially
(28:43):
with all the labour costs etcetera going up, I think it's
smart to get kiosks in place andjust have that bigger outlay at
the beginning. But again, it's, it's saving the
labour. However, from an allergy point
of view, a lot of people want tospeak to people like face to
face as a person, you know, if they've got an allergy, they and
that's, that is actually one of the biggest frustrations right
now with kiosks. If it's not easy to navigate,
(29:05):
you're then going well, like, and I've just had to walk out
places because I'm sure they do do gluten free or can make it.
But if there's no one to speak to, yeah, that's an issue.
So like, I think there's a big part of the business that needs
to be tech and that's obviously the future.
Like, you know, who knows it'll all be running from technology
in the future? Probably most.
Likely, yeah, but I but you need.
That human interaction. Talk about at the start, right,
Hostile. You said everyone's hospitable
(29:25):
who I've met so far and it's so true.
And you know, I see your place with like a roving, you know,
like a roving allergen expert onthe floor, you know, someone
like, and that sounds crazy, butlike, but I love that you don't
need to be an expert, but you need to, you know, obviously if
you've been trained properly, like you said, you know,
everything. And it's just because at
McDonald's you have, there's a, there's always a lady or a guy
on the floor and they've often got a mopper.
And I, I actually think it's, yes, they're cleaning and
(29:48):
they're doing some bits, but I think it's a deliberate ploy to
table turn and to keep things moving, ticking because they
have to back in the day, less sonow because everything's going
out the back door. But I think, I think in your
scenario, having that Peace of Mind, that expert who just
wonders, they're just nice, right?
Yeah, they're just, and they probably clearing some tables
well, chat to people or whatever, but they've got,
imagine that having someone withultimate knowledge been on the
(30:11):
floor all the time and it's onlyone person.
You don't need more than you know. 1-2 maximum.
Yeah, and it's again, it's not going to be like a massive store
anyway. So again, there again, there'll
always be someone on hand. That's the aim to.
Have I think that's yeah and I think and I think for your
because of where this journey isright now, I think people will
need that comfort as well don't.They yeah, especially,
especially at the beginning, youknow, you've got a new place
again anyway, you go even if it says 100% gluten free, even I've
(30:33):
been to a quite a few restaurants and they're 100%
gluten free, you still have to ask like I'm celiac, I'm just.
Double checking. The problem is it's like, and
schooling it when there's one naughty kid, it ruins it for
everyone. So, yeah, as long as there's
going to be 1 restaurant that doesn't follow the rules and as
you say, everyone's saying they're doing all this stuff,
but actually as long as someone makes a mistake, then you're all
going to be tired of the same brush.
Yeah. So I think it's about your, your
(30:55):
whole brand will be about confidence, right.
The big thing about Sonny's willbe that it's like a confidence
play that everyone will be like,I love going there because I am
safe. Yeah, exactly.
The safe is the big word and that that is the biggest thing.
Like there's so many places out there that you just, we just
can't quite guarantee it and it's just not worth the risk
because at the end of the day, it's our health that's at risk
and it's just not worth it. And especially we see like, like
(31:16):
it kills you over time, right? So it's not like you can't just
have a little bit now and again.Immediacy in hospitality.
We want to see are you going to go now or are you going to be?
It's going to be a few weeks, Weneed to know now and what's the
plan then? How big?
How big? I mean, I suppose it's kind of
how long is a piece of string. Well, do you know what?
I love this question because I'mmaybe that crazy entrepreneur
that's going I can see one everywhere in the world, but
(31:37):
honestly, I can really see it inall major cities, but not
actually just the major cities. So we've we've already had again
before we've even opened, we've got demand in America,
Australia, France, Spain, Malta,Italy and Canada recently as
well. You know, people either wanted
to do a franchise or they're saying like we are desperate for
this business. And when you look at the numbers
of these places. It'd be good mate.
I think it will be for this, youknow, there's, there's and
(31:58):
there's just franchising, right.So we're going to probably do
free stores, make sure the modelworks, it works completely well,
you know, it runs smoothly, and then you can happily pass it
over to a franchise and they canrun it.
But we need to go through those teeming problems, make sure
everything's working right so that it's making money for the
franchise, but also, if not, it's not going to grow.
(32:18):
So yeah, we need to go through that personally ourselves.
But yeah, I can literally see iteverywhere.
And I say cities because again, actually that's the biggest
populations for for a lot of thecountries around the world.
But being from Ipswich, a relatively small town, it's not
tiny. But the biggest situation is
that a lot of things are in cities.
So then you're like, well, I'm celiac and I don't live in
(32:40):
London. I want to eat somewhere still.
So I think even just having smaller locations.
Scattered around even the stats like something crazy that the
increase in allergens is. I think you guys told me about
it on the panel. I can't, I don't know if you
remember what it was, but the increase in how allergens are
compared to even five years. Ago do you know what I so that
was even Alana the. Those two, the grads, yeah.
Oh, they, they've, they know their stats very, very well.
(33:02):
I know, I know. This was.
Eve, I think it was just like bam bam but.
Like drop it. But again, it's a it's a
personal experience, right? She's got a severe nut allergy.
So she's she's lived it and she's invested, passionate about
it. Yeah, exactly.
So, but like I'm I'm more from the a group of the nuts and the
and the dairy stats that I've looked at mainly, but all other
allergens as well, obviously arevery.
Important. But they're all in growth,
right? So it's the wrong way.
They're all. Going through the roof yeah.
(33:24):
And. And that might be because our
foods isn't, you know, fresh and.
Clean. So the reality is that actually
where there was a need in the cities, the suburbs will
eventually need it as well because the the.
They already need. It the cluster of people there
are, so I know already in my closed space, closed circle, I'd
say 25% of my good close friendsare have some kind of allergy.
(33:44):
So yeah. So it's, I think it's, it'll be
needed everywhere. I can see a Sonny's in Poncana
in Cardiff. I can see it everywhere,
literally where everywhere there's a demand will be there.
Like it's even the whole of UK, like even Scotlands, Irelands,
Wales, like all of them are going.
We are desperate for this and it's because it's needs and I
think that's the big difference between US and any other food,
right? Now it's a quick mate.
(34:05):
Well, it's what we're doing it come.
On people, give them, give them the money.
Look, we've run out of time, butI, I love chatting too.
It's always, I think it's fascinating because I think it's
such a great thing to do. For a start, I think it's great
because you're personally invested and we, you know, even
Alana, we all met together a while ago and they're also
invested. I think it's just great to see
young people going after it Godly.
I'm saying young people, I'm really getting old.
If people want to get hold of you and give you some money,
(34:27):
what's the best way to get hold of you?
So I've got. Any tech investors listening
here by the way or people VCs dialling in listening.
Please have a chat with Sonny because as you've heard on the
last half an hour cracking concept and I think he could
probably give you a return quitequickly.
So sorry mate, how do they get ahold?
Of you, yeah, No, and I'd actually just add to that as
well, like obviously we haven't in terms of the tech, obviously
we've looked at quite a few. You're still open.
(34:47):
It's like the violence. Yeah, if I see something
amazing, I'll consider it, put it that way.
You get about 55 emails. Come on right your way now.
Well, won't give me an e-mail, but no, I think you basically
the best way to find is Sunny the celiac.
So that's with Sunny with an O and that's my personal page
where I'm showing the founder journey and the story and a bit
more behind the scenes stuff. Sunny's under score food is the
(35:08):
Instagram around the TikTok and if not LinkedIn, Sunny wells
SONMY. Mate, lovely to see you.
What are your plans for the restof?
The day meetings back-to-back asyou can imagine, always raising
exactly it never stops. I might sleep in about two
years. You've got.
Shereen, she's really quiet as well, and she's God, you could
have picked. She's got a lot of energy.
She has, oh, that's actually whyI got on board.
(35:28):
I saw her at lunch and I, I didn't approach it.
I actually approached her just to chat and I was like her
energy on the stage. I was like, she's a.
People, she did our very first service event in BrewDog where
we take over the whole thing. Right now.
She was the only one to arrive by the slide.
I don't really in Waterloo. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been in
there. I normally do the grind, yeah.
That's right. So she she came down this we've
got a great picture of her doingthis coming out there.
(35:49):
And the rest of the panelists sit on the stage waiting for a
game. OK, that's brilliant.
But that's just her, right. I think she worked the London
Underground or something. Oh, really?
Yeah. She she's not from this world.
She not in that way, but she's but she she worked the London
Underground. She I remember talking about
saying that she was surrounded by guys all the time and very
much she was, she was like kind of like the only woman kind and
beaten back on them. But you see that in her, right?
(36:10):
She's and this is what fights. Her new venture is as well now.
Yeah, obviously helping. Oh, the mentoring.
Yeah, yeah. Which is amazing.
And and again that is, you know,even coming into the world like
it is a mainly male dominated space.
So to see more women coming up. I've got a daughter I'm
scrapping like all the rest are trying to find.
You know the and I think we can we hire.
I've never even talked about this open as well but we hire
mostly women in tech on toast because same reason.
(36:31):
Hadn't bought that actually, yeah.
Yeah, because, well, because it's infiltrating.
We want to infiltrate the tech space a little bit because it's
not very many female founders atall.
Apart from that's why I made such a fuss around even Alana
because they are rare. And they're smashing it.
Yeah, and they do them and because they've got great
products, not about because they're men or women, it's
because they've got great product.
Like you've got a great product.So anyway, very cool.
Say hi to Richard when you see him next to Richard.
(36:53):
And I'll tell him. I'll text him and tell him
thanks, but thanks very much. That was Sunny Wells, everybody.
And Sunny's coming to a High Street near you soon.
Thank you, Chris.
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