April 24, 2024 • 40 mins
Singer, songwriter, and activist, Karan Casey has had a career that has spanned decades and continents. Whether rallying voices for women’s rights or creating music that holds the masses, she has crafted and shaped her own way…except when she hasn’t. These are her stories of self-reflection, grief, and a life full of living.
Recorded in an intimate nook backstage before a show, settle in for stories from Karan Casey, a woman brimming with life and wisdom.
Tell Her This is a podcast of honest, heartfelt, and real stories from women and for women who live real lives and are as messy and complex as they are beautiful.
No advice. No self-help. Just perspective and stories.
Buy Me a Coffee and support Tell Her This
This episode includes music by Maya Rogers and today’s guest storyteller, Karan Casey
To hear more from Karan Casey, please visit karancasey.com
Thanks for listening! Please subscribe, leave a rating, and follow Tell Her This on all platforms @tellherthispodcast
This episode includes music by Maya Rogers. Click here to hear more from Maya and support her new project, Orion and The Remembering Tree!
Thanks for listening! Please subscribe, leave a rating, and follow Tell Her This on all platforms @tellherthispodcast
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rochelle (00:00):
Hello friends, my, it has been a while.
I had to take some unannouncedtime away because, well, first
let me say that I've been reallystruggling with how much I
should actually share in thisplatform.
I'm so grateful for all youlisteners.
Tell Her this is well on itsway to 100,000 downloads being
(00:23):
listened to in more than 150countries each week.
There's something incrediblyspecial happening and I'm so
proud and so grateful.
But I must also be honest andshare that this isn't a
sustainable project.
It's not being monetized.
I just don't have the peoplepower.
It's not being monetized.
I just don't have the peoplepower.
(00:44):
In addition to the three to fourhour storytelling sessions for
each storyteller, I spendanother 15 or so hours actually
editing each episode, working inlogic, editing audio recording,
selecting songs.
This on top of my work as amusic artist, bandmate, music
(01:06):
arts consultant, etc.
Etc.
I want to keep creating andsharing these incredible stories
, because we are really buildingsomething here and I'm not
complaining, and so I need tohire someone.
I need a producer, a thoughtpartner, someone with an ear for
storytelling, someone who canhelp me expand.
(01:27):
Tell Her this Experience withbrand partnerships or audio
editing skills is a big plus Ifthis sounds like you or someone
you know, please send me anemail at tellherthispodcast at
gmailcom.
Okay, this week's episode isextra special.
If you're following on socialmedia, you know that I traveled
(01:49):
up to Massachusetts to host myvery first Tell Her this
storytelling workshop.
I'll link a video about that inthe show notes.
Whilst in Massachusetts, I satwith the Karen Casey activist
musician, beautiful soul.
This episode is a gift.
All right, let's get startedRestless wonder this is.
Karan (02:19):
Tell Her this Podcast her this podcast.
My name is Karen Casey and I'm55.
Rochelle (02:34):
Karen Casey is a singer, songwriter, storyteller
and has had a career of morethan 30 years weaving her way
between her roots in Irishtraditional music, her study of
jazz and her longtimerelationship with the
American-born supergroup Solas.
Karen has dedicated her solocareer to women's rights and
(02:57):
justice, particularly in Ireland, with 11 albums under her belt,
numerous collaborations andtours across the globe.
I got to sit down with thisbeautiful yet unassuming woman
before her concert inNorthampton Massachusetts at
Bombix Live.
These are her stories.
Karan (03:27):
I think I'm probably a more confident woman who is kind
of coming into her own afteryears probably of pleasing
people, struggling kind of tofit in or belong, and really
only beginning to kind of comeinto my own true self.
(03:50):
I feel like I've kind ofreturned to my 13-year-old self
where I was pretty rebellious,wanted to forge my own path and
change the world for the better.
I grew up in a very smallvillage called Ballyduff Lower
(04:19):
and it was about eight milesoutside the nearest town, about
eight miles outside the nearesttown, and my father had come
from another village the otherway like eight miles that way,
called Kilmack.
So he was very local but infairness, eight miles in Ireland
is a long way actually.
And my mother was from Dublinoriginally but they had both
(04:45):
emigrated to London for work.
They loved London, they reallyloved it.
Then my mother got pregnantwith me actually, and they came
home and they were married andmoved back to Waterford and
moved back to Waterford and sowe grew up.
(05:06):
They moved a lot in the earlydays and they had a hairdressing
business.
My dad was a hairdresser.
Much to the disgust of mymother's family.
They were like you must bejoking, she's marrying a barber.
Eventually they moved to aplace called Ballyduff and it
(05:30):
was pretty idyllic.
It was out in the countryside,very small, people looked after
each other, and I grew learnthow to sing really there,
because I had a great teacherthere.
Winifred Foran was her name andshe taught the whole class how
to sing.
My dad is a great singer.
He loved singing.
We had loads of parties in ourhouse.
Rochelle (05:52):
Karen grew up with music, a full house of singing
and community.
Eventually, she began singingat music sessions and
competitions.
Growing up in the social andpolitical unrest of the 1970s
and 80s Ireland meant that evenat a young age, Karen's parents
(06:13):
were aware of the isms andconstructs that could impact
their children.
In a small Irish village wherethe church was the overwhelming
authority on the culture, it washer mother who forged a
different path for Karen.
Karan (06:29):
My mother didn't really like the Catholic church and so
she was asked if the localpriest could come and do
Stations of the Cross and shesaid no.
And so you know we were markedout a little bit differently in
the village and you know sheliked to do her own thing, she
(06:51):
liked to work and she had kidsand she really wanted to work, I
think.
So that was different too in away, and she was very glamorous,
really beautiful and yeah.
So I suppose I think the churchwas very overbearing.
We stopped kind of going tochurch when I was about 12 or 13
(07:13):
and my parents took the unusualdecision to send me to a Quaker
school, not a Catholic school.
So that was formative, reallyformative.
I was really privileged to dothat.
It was a private school and Ithink their friends actually
persuaded them because one of mymother's bridesmaids was a
(07:36):
Quaker, rachel Lahan, amazingwoman.
So it was different.
Like there was eight girls inthe primary school and we were
asked in sixth class, where areyou going to school?
And everybody else said theMercy Convent or the Pres,
whatever.
And I said Newtown, the Quakerschool, and there was this pause
and the principal said oh well,I wouldn't know anything about
(07:58):
that place.
It's fascinating.
Like in Ireland you think thatwe've gone beyond religion or
sectarianism, but it very muchpermeates society, not so much
(08:20):
in the South anymore.
You know we're becoming a lot.
We've certainly been freed fromthe shackles of the church.
The one thing I learned at 13was that you are not to get
pregnant.
It was a huge fear and it wasreally.
(08:44):
I think it was my mother's fearthat I would become pregnant
and you know there were reasonsfor that.
That I learnt only later on,but I definitely had an abiding
fear of becoming pregnant.
It didn't overshadow everything, I mean, to be fair.
(09:06):
It was kind of like anunconscious thing.
But when I look back now I kindof go oh my God.
Rochelle (09:17):
I think historically, for many women the idea of
getting pregnant was theultimate fear, the ultimate sin,
and of course we don't want a13 year old, or any child, to
become pregnant.
However, without propereducation, context, freedom to
explore and understand, theemphasis was placed on the
(09:40):
outward manifestation of sexualactivity and what that implied,
and no consideration for theinner complexities and
development of the human being.
This warped imbalance stayswith you well into adulthood.
Karan (09:55):
I kind of threw myself into singing.
I threw myself into sports andI threw myself into various
various things, but mostly music.
Listened to massive amounts ofAretha Franklin, stevie Wonder,
you know, top of the Pops.
I loved all that and I justloved music.
(10:16):
It was a real way to escape.
I had a tape recorder and I'dtape stuff on the radio and I
would then go down to my bedroomand learn it.
I really feel free in songs Ireally release and they're a
(10:46):
real balm.
I can really, you know, escapeinto those songs.
I've always found a hugefreedom in singing.
Well, I went through, actually,a phase of for years of trying
to be perfect and then certainlythe last 10, 15 years has been
a gift of letting years ofhaving trying to be perfect, and
then certainly the last 10-15years has been a gift of letting
(11:09):
go of that.
Rochelle (11:10):
There's a force that permeates creative spaces in
academia and professionalsettings.
It's like we take this thingthat is innate and free and mold
it and shape it into somethingthat can be assessed and
analyzed.
And don't get me wrong study ofyour craft ultimately gives you
(11:31):
the tools you need to trulyexplore all parts of your art,
but sometimes we slip into aclinical approach that squashes
all the beauty and sets artistson a never-ending path of
working to legitimize their artinstead of working to create it.
Karan (11:50):
I did an amount of classical piano playing and I
loved the piano but I couldnever.
I found it hard to grasp that,so that was kind of hard.
And then I also was doinglearning traditional song and
learning it in Irish and I foundthat very hard and I was trying
(12:13):
really hard to get it right.
I mean, I think it was becauseI was in competitions and exams
and really difficult exams andexams and really difficult exams
and I really really reallytried and persevered.
But you know, I found thatreally hard and that kind of
(12:36):
gave me a bit of a it's kind ofseize up, you know, before
playing and singing, but whereasI was at home and I'd be
dancing around to Rita, butsomehow I don't know, I just,
yeah, that just permeated a lotof.
I find that in traditionalmusic, the competitions, they're
(12:58):
a huge part of it and I don'tknow if that's really the way to
go.
I understand like learning andbecoming better at something,
but you know it's hard to getaround that.
I think I started teaching.
I started teaching when I was.
I mean, I've been teaching allalong, really from, let's say,
(13:22):
well, no, that's not true.
I've been teaching probablymore since, like, I've been
about 42 and I started doing alot more teaching and you kind
of teach the same way you weretaught yourself.
And then there were times when Iwas like, oh, this isn't really
working and, um, I could seepeople were falling into the
(13:44):
same thing and, uh, fearful, youknow.
And I just said, no, this isthe wrong way to go about this,
let's not do this.
So I suppose I had to see it insomeone else in a way and I had
to unravel a lot of my ownteaching and the way.
And I had great teachers don'tget me wrong, they were really
(14:04):
great and they were very kind.
It wasn't anything like that.
I think it's just classicalmusic is so much of it is about
perfectionism, um, and indeedtraditional as well.
All of music, I suppose, can bevery challenging, um, but yeah,
(14:42):
so I started to try and thinkof it in a different way then.
Rochelle (14:47):
For a long time, maybe a majority of her career, karen
worked with the small boxeswomen are put into.
She waded through thepatriarchy in the only way she
knew how Be pretty, be sweet,maybe be quiet.
But now, in this season, with alittle more growing and
(15:11):
learning, she's freed herself.
Some of that has come with hersustained connection to the
women and issues closest to herheart, and some of that has come
with aging and, unexpectedly,in her journey through menopause
.
Karan (15:28):
Well, you know, it's funny, like menopause certainly
hasn't been talked about inIreland really, until two years
ago there was this radioprogramme in the middle of the
day which I don't normallylisten to.
It's called Live Lion.
You know, it's actually verygood in terms of that.
You've got, you know, ordinarypeople on there.
You know, a lot of Irish radiois dominated by very great
(15:55):
people, not, you know, but itcan be very middle class and you
don't get a lot of just workingclass voices and you do on this
programme.
Now, I don't love the whole, allof the aspects about the
programme, but anyway, thiswoman rang in and started
talking about the menopause andthey ran the menopause story for
(16:17):
nearly three weeks becauseeverybody was ringing in and
saying, oh my god, and I waslistening in and I was going,
yes, all the symptoms, you know,the night sweats, the brain fog
, the lack of confidence, theanxiety, the your joints feeling
(16:38):
, you know, out of kilter andyou just being, your whole
system is out of kilter really,and I hadn't, I hadn't named it,
you know.
So I had, I hadn't named it,you know.
So I had and I was cross.
Rochelle (16:52):
For those who are unfamiliar with this term, to be
cross means to be vexed,annoyed, pissed off angry.
Karan (17:03):
I have been cross in the past, but I was really cross.
I was really cross sort of,with myself and where I had
ended up and what I was doingand what was I singing and why
was I singing these songs andwhy was I coming along saying,
oh, this is fantastic, thanksfor having me, and kind of being
the Irish Colleen or somethingyou know, which is like girl.
(17:24):
And you know, there was loadsof things that I had wanted to
say.
And this is even going beyondthat, further back, and I think
the menopause, just it was sohard actually that I kind of had
to stop and sit and go.
Karen, what are you actuallydoing with yourself?
(17:47):
You know?
What do you want out of life?
Stop pleasing people, stopbeing running around on tour and
sort of singing the songs thatyou think other people want you
to sing.
I deserve the right to lose mymind, tired of being patient and
(18:10):
wise Whilst viewing my demise.
And so it did really open up ahuge area where I started
talking about being a woman onthe road.
You know the things that hadhappened where people you know
were just not nice.
They were oh beyond not nice,you know, telling me what to
(18:32):
sing, constantly making commentsabout how I looked, being
groped, harassed sexually,always told oh my God, if I was
20 years younger.
Actually, one guy said to me ifI was 10 years younger and I
said you mean 20.
You know, you know yourself,and I hid all that.
(18:58):
And I hid what it did to me.
Menopause is great, it'sfantastic.
I just want women to know that.
Like it's tough at times butyou also start going, no, I'm
done now.
What do I actually want to dowith my life and how do I want
the next phase of it to be?
So it's actually a gift.
(19:20):
It's also difficult, sort ofphysically and psychologically,
but in a way then strugglingthrough that, you become a bit
stronger.
I think you know I want to makethe world a better place with
song.
I'm kind of motivated by ChristyMoore, andy Irvine, nina Simone
, stevie Wonder, aretha Franklinpeople who really have
(19:44):
dedicated their lives really tochanging the world and believing
in the power of music,believing in community,
believing that if you can geteveryone into the room together
and even though we disagree,they'll all sing along to this
song I think called the King'sShilling.
So you know, even people whoreally disagree will sing along
(20:10):
to the song.
So there's something in thatand the power of that and the
potency of you know we can, wecan sing things but maybe we're
not able to say them.
You know very difficult issues.
We can sing about them.
My songs are dominated by we cansing about them.
(20:30):
My songs are dominated byanti-colonialism and anti-war
songs.
And colonialism is the same nomatter where it is.
You know, palestine, britain,sudan, Syria, down here, down
(20:51):
south in America, it's all thesame thing.
It's all trying to put onegroup down so as you can get
ahead and so as you can makemoney, and all the warmongering
and the death machines they keeprolling on.
I think that's one of the sadthings actually about getting
older is that you recognise thiswar machine is going to keep
(21:13):
going.
Rochelle (21:31):
When you read or hear about Karen, her commitment to
the issues of women and justicego hand in hand, especially in
the more recent era of hercareer.
Now, it wasn't always that way,and that's not because these
weren't her values, but because,like many of us, she was
invested in playing nice anddoing what she thought she was
(21:52):
supposed to do.
I asked her if she held anygrief or feelings about those
years of her career.
Karan (22:00):
Yeah, I did.
Yeah, I did.
I probably still am.
I did, I probably still am, andI feel like I have no one else
to blame, really only myself.
I sometimes kind of got in myown way, but I try to be more
(22:26):
kind to myself.
Sorry, more kind, oh, sorry tomyself, sorry, it's alright.
My love, it's alright yeah, ohgod, I am.
You know, I'm trying to saythat I grew up, you know, in a
country that you know put womenaway, locked them up, took their
(22:53):
children away, sold theirchildren.
You know, obviously thenational question is so
overbearing that, you know, itdoesn't allow really for a
conversation about women, aboutmarginalised people.
It does.
Now, Thankfully, you know,we've changed an awful lot.
So you know, I'm trying to bekinder to myself in that.
(23:16):
That's why I respond, but Isuppose I still do it a bit.
You know, it's the trainingthat you get when you're young
to be nice.
Karen.
You know, never just stopanswering back.
(23:38):
Why are you saying that You'redifficult?
You know you're drama queen.
Rochelle (23:52):
I asked Karen what she would say to her 30-year-old
self.
Karan (23:58):
Oh, I'd say fuck them.
You know, I'd say fuck themthat you know the things I
wanted, like women to havechoice, to have abortion in
Ireland.
Like I mean, I'm really proudof Ireland at the moment.
There's thousands, hundreds ofthousands walked.
Last week for, you know, theanti-immigration has really
(24:22):
risen its ugly head in Irelandand it's really run by this.
Maybe two, three hundred peoplewho come to where new
immigrants are coming.
These are people coming fromwar-torn countries and they're
burning the house that thosepeople are going to be put up in
(24:44):
.
And I'm so angry and I'm so.
After Ireland, you know, so manypeople emigrated myself
included, my parents and thenthis is how we respond.
Now, in fairness, most Irishpeople are going.
This is terrible.
(25:04):
My 30-year-old self thought, ohwell, if we sing all these
songs and we get out and weprotest, this will all change.
So on some levels, that's veryI could give in to despair, and
(25:24):
on other levels I go well, look,you know things do get better.
You know we don't have childrennow working for 14 hours a day
and we have moved on withwomen's rights.
I know it's kind of goingbackwards here in America, but
we have moved on at home.
So it makes you kind of it'skind of quite contradictory,
because I go, well, yeah, thosewere the things that we were all
(25:45):
working for, but also it's abit despairing, you know, to
plan it.
Rochelle (25:56):
The episode isn't over yet, but I want to take a
minute to say tell her thisneeds your support.
This is a self-funded project,but for less than a cup of
coffee you can keep this laborof love going.
Click the link in the shownotes to buy me a coffee or head
over to buymeacoffeecom.
Forward slash, tell her thisand donate what you can.
(26:19):
All right, let's get back tothe show.
I asked Karen about a time shefelt most beautiful.
Karan (26:27):
I am Irish, rochelle I mean oh, um, oh, my God, it's
probably a long time ago.
I mean, well, actually theother night we did a gig.
(26:47):
We did a.
I do these gigs in Ithaca andthey I've been doing them for 28
years and they're with theseamazing activists called the
Grady's up in Ithaca and they doall this anti-war, anti-nuclear
warheads and they, you know, Ioften I go to benefits for them,
(27:10):
I sing or whatever and I dowhatever they say, really, if
they're doing something.
I mean we only meet usually oncea year or twice a year, but I
really love them and I'msurrounded by love and there's
community there and they really,you know I feel like I can
speak openly and we all sangtogether and you know we talked
(27:33):
about making the world a betterplace.
You know we've been throughbenefits where we were anti-war,
anti-the Gulf War, anti-afghan,the war in Afghanistan, iraq.
You know we've done so manybenefits over the years.
So we've a long relationshipand I really feel held by them
(27:58):
and understood by that community, so that actually I felt
beautiful that night on thestage and I felt like connected.
Yeah, yeah.
Rochelle (28:16):
Karen was gracious enough to have our storytelling
session before giving a fullconcert later that evening.
She'd arrived quite late to thevenue, after her tour bus had
been held up in traffic comingin from the previous tour stop.
All that to say, I was veryaware of the time and didn't
want to compromise herpreparation for the stage.
(28:37):
But before we wrapped up, shemade sure to tell me about the
life of her dear friend Dorothy.
Karan (28:45):
I was going to tell you about a really good friend of
mine.
Yeah, so one of my well,probably really my best friend.
Her name was Dorothy Buchance,and when I came to America first
, which was 30 years ago, justJanuary I came actually to be a
jazz singer because I wanted tobe like Eliphas Stirls and I,
(29:10):
you know, I was a waitress and Iwas a babysitter and I also got
this job in a place calledScholastic, which edited
children's books.
I edited children's books and Igot a job as an assistant
editor, being with Dorothy inscience books which I know
(29:33):
absolutely nothing about.
I got the job because of myaccent, definitely, and anyway
she just changed my life.
I met Dorothy.
I was like I don't know why I'mhere.
I got this job, I think,because of my accent, and she
was like I don't know why I'mhere.
I got this job, I think,because of my accent, and she
was like, oh, you'll do fine,and she was just an
extraordinary woman.
(29:53):
She passed away there in Januaryand she worked for seven months
of the year in Scholastic andthen she insisted that the other
five months of the year she'dbe allowed to go away and work
on labour gates and she went toGuatemala.
She built houses.
She was in Puerto Rico.
She built houses.
She'd been in Germany, outsideAuschwitz and the Ravensbrück
(30:17):
museums, beating her drum.
She went on a huge walk.
She was in Garvahy Road inIreland, you know, as an
overseas observer.
She actually invited me up toGarvahy Road for a holiday and I
was like, are you mad?
This is like for marchingseason.
(30:44):
Anyway, I went for a bit and she, you know, uh, that you know,
documenting the women's livesthere, what it was really like
to grow up and fear, um, and shejust did, you know so many
things.
Her whole life was dedicated toeradicating poverty.
She was an educator as well andreally, really radical.
(31:09):
And you know, I just herpresence, you know, when I was
kind of very clumsily in myearly career trying to speak out
against racism, or you know theburnt out black churches was
one of the first benefits I didin America.
Or for Ireland, you know, um,roshi Magalaski was a woman who
(31:32):
was imprisoned in the north andchained to the bed when she was
giving birth.
So you know we were on a lot ofdifferent campaigns together
but I always had her, her, heroverview, you know, and you know
she'd fought so many goodfights and you know all my songs
(31:56):
.
I would run them by her.
All my writing.
She was so supportive Write thesong, write the books, keep
saying what you're saying.
And also very you, you know I'dbe crying and upset, you know,
over what this man did, or thisman said, or the fact that one
guy got four hundred dollars andI got two hundred dollars for
(32:17):
the same gig, or you know, orthe usual and uh, they always
had her to, to, to be there andlisten and be really supportive.
And I'm just really glad that Ihad her in my life.
I mean what you know?
What a gift.
She died of gallbladder cancerand I actually was on tour in
(32:49):
America here in November andthen I went to stay with her in
Manhattan, in Queens, sunnyside,and I was in the bedroom.
She had a million books.
I mean, I don't know what we'regoing to do with all the books
and beads.
When she crocheted all the timeand she had all this science
equipment and she used to giveit away with all the books and
beads.
When she crocheted all the timeand she had all this science
(33:09):
equipment and she used to giveit away to all the kids and, um,
she would all.
She was always teaching andreally interested in children
and and she would teach themabout racism and she would teach
them the real history and shewould have the difficult
conversation and she'd say, no,the kids need to know, and then
(33:29):
they need to know what they cando.
And she was so brave, you know,because we've all shied away so
much from all these topicsshe's just, she's just wonderful
and she was so kind to people.
And one of the sad things is Idon't know if she knew how much
(33:50):
we all loved her.
She was kind of surprised atthe end that we were all coming
and minding her.
Sister, I am here for you.
I was in the room looking atall the books going.
She had asked me could I startmaybe cataloguing the books and
I was like, oh Jesus, like therewere so many books and I was
(34:14):
really sitting on the bed crying.
And she was in the other roomand she answered the phone and
she said well, how are you today, young man?
Because I have terminal cancer.
Today, young man, because Ihave terminal cancer, I just
wanted to, you know, to tell youhow grateful I am to have had
(34:36):
her and you know that she waslife-changing.
Rochelle (34:46):
I asked Karen who she wanted to be at 70 years old.
Karan (34:51):
I want to be like Dorothy .
I want to be still giving out,you know, still an activist.
I want to be in a communitywhere I feel like I can draw on
people, connect and still give.
I want to be hopefullyable-bodied, able to read I read
(35:22):
a lot and just love.
I don't want to be bitter, Ireally want to fight that.
When I was 18, 19, I took itupon myself, I was in Mallorca,
I had got this job singing in abar and it didn't really work
(35:44):
out.
And so I said, because I wassinging jazz and they didn't
really want jazz, they wantedpop, whatever Sting had made
this tape with this moroccanband.
And um, I got the tape and Iloved it and I thought, oh my
god, this is amazing.
And I said I, I won't go tomorocco, right?
(36:04):
So I took off to morocco.
Oh, to be 19, 18, didn't tellmy mother really where I was
going.
I said, sure, look, I'll go toMorocco.
And I went over from south ofSpain, south, and went down to a
taxi over the mountains.
I was in Marrakech and I had acontact of a family to stay with
(36:28):
and I was standing in like thetown centre and it was
absolutely beautiful and all thearomas and spices in the market
and of course I'm there like anidiot, a fool.
I had no hat, karen, so I hadno hat.
So I was feeling kind of sick.
(36:50):
And then I went and I wasstaying in the youth hostel and
I was really sick.
I had.
I went and I was staying in theyouth hostel and I was really
sick, I had sunstroke and I wentto bed and the man behind the
desk could tell that I wasreally sick and he said you just
need to go to bed.
And then I was really sick, Iwas delirious in the bed and
(37:10):
every few hours he came in andhe rubbed something in my head,
kind of smelt like curry, and Imust have been there for two or
three days.
And then I got up and I cameout and he was on the floor
praying with his mat.
He didn't have to mind me, hedidn't have to mind this mad
(37:32):
Irish one from the middle ofnowhere, and he did, you know.
So I always try and come back tohumanity or us being tissue,
blood, bones, and try and remindmyself of that.
All the time we all get caughtup with trying to be famous or
(37:55):
trying to do the right thing orsay the right thing or sell
albums and it doesn't matter ashite, you know, unless we're
good to one another and kind andreally doing that.
Yeah, I don't know if I'vealways really been kind to
everyone, trying to push through.
(38:18):
You know, that's one of thethings I think.
Even the menopause stuff, it'slike make me go.
I need to slow down and justlook at the really good things
in my life and appreciate themand breathe.
You know Touring isn't reallyconducive to that, but you know
(38:38):
what I mean.
It is the actual importantthing and we need to connect
with each other and that's moreimportant than being a superstar
.
Rochelle (38:50):
Deep gratitude to Karen for her time and her
stories.
The tell her this podcast wascreated by Rochelle Rice with
support from DC Commission onthe Arts and Humanities.
To support this podcast, pleaseclick the link in the show
notes or visit buymeacoffeecomforward slash.
Tell her this for more.
Tell her this content.
(39:11):
Please visittellherthispodcastcom and follow
on social media at Tell Herthis Podcast.
Please share this episode witha friend and leave a rating or
review.
This episode includes music byMaya Rogers and today's
storyteller, karen Casey,editing and sound design by
Rochelle Rice, mixing andediting by Ray Jala, and I'm
(39:35):
your host, rochelle Rice, andyou can find me at Rochelle Rice
Music Across all socialplatforms.
Until next time, be true and bewell game walking on country,
walking on country we were borntoday.
Hello friends, my, it has been a while.
I had to take some unannouncedtime away because, well, first
let me say that I've been reallystruggling with how much I
should actually share in thisplatform.
I'm so grateful for all youlisteners.
Tell Her this is well on itsway to 100,000 downloads being
(00:23):
listened to in more than 150countries each week.
There's something incrediblyspecial happening and I'm so
proud and so grateful.
But I must also be honest andshare that this isn't a
sustainable project.
It's not being monetized.
I just don't have the peoplepower.
It's not being monetized.
I just don't have the peoplepower.
(00:44):
In addition to the three to fourhour storytelling sessions for
each storyteller, I spendanother 15 or so hours actually
editing each episode, working inlogic, editing audio recording,
selecting songs.
This on top of my work as amusic artist, bandmate, music
(01:06):
arts consultant, etc.
Etc.
I want to keep creating andsharing these incredible stories
, because we are really buildingsomething here and I'm not
complaining, and so I need tohire someone.
I need a producer, a thoughtpartner, someone with an ear for
storytelling, someone who canhelp me expand.
(01:27):
Tell Her this Experience withbrand partnerships or audio
editing skills is a big plus Ifthis sounds like you or someone
you know, please send me anemail at tellherthispodcast at
gmailcom.
Okay, this week's episode isextra special.
If you're following on socialmedia, you know that I traveled
(01:49):
up to Massachusetts to host myvery first Tell Her this
storytelling workshop.
I'll link a video about that inthe show notes.
Whilst in Massachusetts, I satwith the Karen Casey activist
musician, beautiful soul.
This episode is a gift.
All right, let's get startedRestless wonder this is.
Karan (02:19):
Tell Her this Podcast her this podcast.
My name is Karen Casey and I'm55.
Rochelle (02:34):
Karen Casey is a singer, songwriter, storyteller
and has had a career of morethan 30 years weaving her way
between her roots in Irishtraditional music, her study of
jazz and her longtimerelationship with the
American-born supergroup Solas.
Karen has dedicated her solocareer to women's rights and
(02:57):
justice, particularly in Ireland, with 11 albums under her belt,
numerous collaborations andtours across the globe.
I got to sit down with thisbeautiful yet unassuming woman
before her concert inNorthampton Massachusetts at
Bombix Live.
These are her stories.
Karan (03:27):
I think I'm probably a more confident woman who is kind
of coming into her own afteryears probably of pleasing
people, struggling kind of tofit in or belong, and really
only beginning to kind of comeinto my own true self.
(03:50):
I feel like I've kind ofreturned to my 13-year-old self
where I was pretty rebellious,wanted to forge my own path and
change the world for the better.
I grew up in a very smallvillage called Ballyduff Lower
(04:19):
and it was about eight milesoutside the nearest town, about
eight miles outside the nearesttown, and my father had come
from another village the otherway like eight miles that way,
called Kilmack.
So he was very local but infairness, eight miles in Ireland
is a long way actually.
And my mother was from Dublinoriginally but they had both
(04:45):
emigrated to London for work.
They loved London, they reallyloved it.
Then my mother got pregnantwith me actually, and they came
home and they were married andmoved back to Waterford and
moved back to Waterford and sowe grew up.
(05:06):
They moved a lot in the earlydays and they had a hairdressing
business.
My dad was a hairdresser.
Much to the disgust of mymother's family.
They were like you must bejoking, she's marrying a barber.
Eventually they moved to aplace called Ballyduff and it
(05:30):
was pretty idyllic.
It was out in the countryside,very small, people looked after
each other, and I grew learnthow to sing really there,
because I had a great teacherthere.
Winifred Foran was her name andshe taught the whole class how
to sing.
My dad is a great singer.
He loved singing.
We had loads of parties in ourhouse.
Rochelle (05:52):
Karen grew up with music, a full house of singing
and community.
Eventually, she began singingat music sessions and
competitions.
Growing up in the social andpolitical unrest of the 1970s
and 80s Ireland meant that evenat a young age, Karen's parents
(06:13):
were aware of the isms andconstructs that could impact
their children.
In a small Irish village wherethe church was the overwhelming
authority on the culture, it washer mother who forged a
different path for Karen.
Karan (06:29):
My mother didn't really like the Catholic church and so
she was asked if the localpriest could come and do
Stations of the Cross and shesaid no.
And so you know we were markedout a little bit differently in
the village and you know sheliked to do her own thing, she
(06:51):
liked to work and she had kidsand she really wanted to work, I
think.
So that was different too in away, and she was very glamorous,
really beautiful and yeah.
So I suppose I think the churchwas very overbearing.
We stopped kind of going tochurch when I was about 12 or 13
(07:13):
and my parents took the unusualdecision to send me to a Quaker
school, not a Catholic school.
So that was formative, reallyformative.
I was really privileged to dothat.
It was a private school and Ithink their friends actually
persuaded them because one of mymother's bridesmaids was a
(07:36):
Quaker, rachel Lahan, amazingwoman.
So it was different.
Like there was eight girls inthe primary school and we were
asked in sixth class, where areyou going to school?
And everybody else said theMercy Convent or the Pres,
whatever.
And I said Newtown, the Quakerschool, and there was this pause
and the principal said oh well,I wouldn't know anything about
(07:58):
that place.
It's fascinating.
Like in Ireland you think thatwe've gone beyond religion or
sectarianism, but it very muchpermeates society, not so much
(08:20):
in the South anymore.
You know we're becoming a lot.
We've certainly been freed fromthe shackles of the church.
The one thing I learned at 13was that you are not to get
pregnant.
It was a huge fear and it wasreally.
(08:44):
I think it was my mother's fearthat I would become pregnant
and you know there were reasonsfor that.
That I learnt only later on,but I definitely had an abiding
fear of becoming pregnant.
It didn't overshadow everything, I mean, to be fair.
(09:06):
It was kind of like anunconscious thing.
But when I look back now I kindof go oh my God.
Rochelle (09:17):
I think historically, for many women the idea of
getting pregnant was theultimate fear, the ultimate sin,
and of course we don't want a13 year old, or any child, to
become pregnant.
However, without propereducation, context, freedom to
explore and understand, theemphasis was placed on the
(09:40):
outward manifestation of sexualactivity and what that implied,
and no consideration for theinner complexities and
development of the human being.
This warped imbalance stayswith you well into adulthood.
Karan (09:55):
I kind of threw myself into singing.
I threw myself into sports andI threw myself into various
various things, but mostly music.
Listened to massive amounts ofAretha Franklin, stevie Wonder,
you know, top of the Pops.
I loved all that and I justloved music.
(10:16):
It was a real way to escape.
I had a tape recorder and I'dtape stuff on the radio and I
would then go down to my bedroomand learn it.
I really feel free in songs Ireally release and they're a
(10:46):
real balm.
I can really, you know, escapeinto those songs.
I've always found a hugefreedom in singing.
Well, I went through, actually,a phase of for years of trying
to be perfect and then certainlythe last 10, 15 years has been
a gift of letting years ofhaving trying to be perfect, and
then certainly the last 10-15years has been a gift of letting
(11:09):
go of that.
Rochelle (11:10):
There's a force that permeates creative spaces in
academia and professionalsettings.
It's like we take this thingthat is innate and free and mold
it and shape it into somethingthat can be assessed and
analyzed.
And don't get me wrong study ofyour craft ultimately gives you
(11:31):
the tools you need to trulyexplore all parts of your art,
but sometimes we slip into aclinical approach that squashes
all the beauty and sets artistson a never-ending path of
working to legitimize their artinstead of working to create it.
Karan (11:50):
I did an amount of classical piano playing and I
loved the piano but I couldnever.
I found it hard to grasp that,so that was kind of hard.
And then I also was doinglearning traditional song and
learning it in Irish and I foundthat very hard and I was trying
(12:13):
really hard to get it right.
I mean, I think it was becauseI was in competitions and exams
and really difficult exams andexams and really difficult exams
and I really really reallytried and persevered.
But you know, I found thatreally hard and that kind of
(12:36):
gave me a bit of a it's kind ofseize up, you know, before
playing and singing, but whereasI was at home and I'd be
dancing around to Rita, butsomehow I don't know, I just,
yeah, that just permeated a lotof.
I find that in traditionalmusic, the competitions, they're
(12:58):
a huge part of it and I don'tknow if that's really the way to
go.
I understand like learning andbecoming better at something,
but you know it's hard to getaround that.
I think I started teaching.
I started teaching when I was.
I mean, I've been teaching allalong, really from, let's say,
(13:22):
well, no, that's not true.
I've been teaching probablymore since, like, I've been
about 42 and I started doing alot more teaching and you kind
of teach the same way you weretaught yourself.
And then there were times when Iwas like, oh, this isn't really
working and, um, I could seepeople were falling into the
(13:44):
same thing and, uh, fearful, youknow.
And I just said, no, this isthe wrong way to go about this,
let's not do this.
So I suppose I had to see it insomeone else in a way and I had
to unravel a lot of my ownteaching and the way.
And I had great teachers don'tget me wrong, they were really
(14:04):
great and they were very kind.
It wasn't anything like that.
I think it's just classicalmusic is so much of it is about
perfectionism, um, and indeedtraditional as well.
All of music, I suppose, can bevery challenging, um, but yeah,
(14:42):
so I started to try and thinkof it in a different way then.
Rochelle (14:47):
For a long time, maybe a majority of her career, karen
worked with the small boxeswomen are put into.
She waded through thepatriarchy in the only way she
knew how Be pretty, be sweet,maybe be quiet.
But now, in this season, with alittle more growing and
(15:11):
learning, she's freed herself.
Some of that has come with hersustained connection to the
women and issues closest to herheart, and some of that has come
with aging and, unexpectedly,in her journey through menopause
.
Karan (15:28):
Well, you know, it's funny, like menopause certainly
hasn't been talked about inIreland really, until two years
ago there was this radioprogramme in the middle of the
day which I don't normallylisten to.
It's called Live Lion.
You know, it's actually verygood in terms of that.
You've got, you know, ordinarypeople on there.
You know, a lot of Irish radiois dominated by very great
(15:55):
people, not, you know, but itcan be very middle class and you
don't get a lot of just workingclass voices and you do on this
programme.
Now, I don't love the whole, allof the aspects about the
programme, but anyway, thiswoman rang in and started
talking about the menopause andthey ran the menopause story for
(16:17):
nearly three weeks becauseeverybody was ringing in and
saying, oh my god, and I waslistening in and I was going,
yes, all the symptoms, you know,the night sweats, the brain fog
, the lack of confidence, theanxiety, the your joints feeling
(16:38):
, you know, out of kilter andyou just being, your whole
system is out of kilter really,and I hadn't, I hadn't named it,
you know.
So I had, I hadn't named it,you know.
So I had and I was cross.
Rochelle (16:52):
For those who are unfamiliar with this term, to be
cross means to be vexed,annoyed, pissed off angry.
Karan (17:03):
I have been cross in the past, but I was really cross.
I was really cross sort of,with myself and where I had
ended up and what I was doingand what was I singing and why
was I singing these songs andwhy was I coming along saying,
oh, this is fantastic, thanksfor having me, and kind of being
the Irish Colleen or somethingyou know, which is like girl.
(17:24):
And you know, there was loadsof things that I had wanted to
say.
And this is even going beyondthat, further back, and I think
the menopause, just it was sohard actually that I kind of had
to stop and sit and go.
Karen, what are you actuallydoing with yourself?
(17:47):
You know?
What do you want out of life?
Stop pleasing people, stopbeing running around on tour and
sort of singing the songs thatyou think other people want you
to sing.
I deserve the right to lose mymind, tired of being patient and
(18:10):
wise Whilst viewing my demise.
And so it did really open up ahuge area where I started
talking about being a woman onthe road.
You know the things that hadhappened where people you know
were just not nice.
They were oh beyond not nice,you know, telling me what to
(18:32):
sing, constantly making commentsabout how I looked, being
groped, harassed sexually,always told oh my God, if I was
20 years younger.
Actually, one guy said to me ifI was 10 years younger and I
said you mean 20.
You know, you know yourself,and I hid all that.
(18:58):
And I hid what it did to me.
Menopause is great, it'sfantastic.
I just want women to know that.
Like it's tough at times butyou also start going, no, I'm
done now.
What do I actually want to dowith my life and how do I want
the next phase of it to be?
So it's actually a gift.
(19:20):
It's also difficult, sort ofphysically and psychologically,
but in a way then strugglingthrough that, you become a bit
stronger.
I think you know I want to makethe world a better place with
song.
I'm kind of motivated by ChristyMoore, andy Irvine, nina Simone
, stevie Wonder, aretha Franklinpeople who really have
(19:44):
dedicated their lives really tochanging the world and believing
in the power of music,believing in community,
believing that if you can geteveryone into the room together
and even though we disagree,they'll all sing along to this
song I think called the King'sShilling.
So you know, even people whoreally disagree will sing along
(20:10):
to the song.
So there's something in thatand the power of that and the
potency of you know we can, wecan sing things but maybe we're
not able to say them.
You know very difficult issues.
We can sing about them.
My songs are dominated by we cansing about them.
(20:30):
My songs are dominated byanti-colonialism and anti-war
songs.
And colonialism is the same nomatter where it is.
You know, palestine, britain,sudan, Syria, down here, down
(20:51):
south in America, it's all thesame thing.
It's all trying to put onegroup down so as you can get
ahead and so as you can makemoney, and all the warmongering
and the death machines they keeprolling on.
I think that's one of the sadthings actually about getting
older is that you recognise thiswar machine is going to keep
(21:13):
going.
Rochelle (21:31):
When you read or hear about Karen, her commitment to
the issues of women and justicego hand in hand, especially in
the more recent era of hercareer.
Now, it wasn't always that way,and that's not because these
weren't her values, but because,like many of us, she was
invested in playing nice anddoing what she thought she was
(21:52):
supposed to do.
I asked her if she held anygrief or feelings about those
years of her career.
Karan (22:00):
Yeah, I did.
Yeah, I did.
I probably still am.
I did, I probably still am, andI feel like I have no one else
to blame, really only myself.
I sometimes kind of got in myown way, but I try to be more
(22:26):
kind to myself.
Sorry, more kind, oh, sorry tomyself, sorry, it's alright.
My love, it's alright yeah, ohgod, I am.
You know, I'm trying to saythat I grew up, you know, in a
country that you know put womenaway, locked them up, took their
(22:53):
children away, sold theirchildren.
You know, obviously thenational question is so
overbearing that, you know, itdoesn't allow really for a
conversation about women, aboutmarginalised people.
It does.
Now, Thankfully, you know,we've changed an awful lot.
So you know, I'm trying to bekinder to myself in that.
(23:16):
That's why I respond, but Isuppose I still do it a bit.
You know, it's the trainingthat you get when you're young
to be nice.
Karen.
You know, never just stopanswering back.
(23:38):
Why are you saying that You'redifficult?
You know you're drama queen.
Rochelle (23:52):
I asked Karen what she would say to her 30-year-old
self.
Karan (23:58):
Oh, I'd say fuck them.
You know, I'd say fuck themthat you know the things I
wanted, like women to havechoice, to have abortion in
Ireland.
Like I mean, I'm really proudof Ireland at the moment.
There's thousands, hundreds ofthousands walked.
Last week for, you know, theanti-immigration has really
(24:22):
risen its ugly head in Irelandand it's really run by this.
Maybe two, three hundred peoplewho come to where new
immigrants are coming.
These are people coming fromwar-torn countries and they're
burning the house that thosepeople are going to be put up in
(24:44):
.
And I'm so angry and I'm so.
After Ireland, you know, so manypeople emigrated myself
included, my parents and thenthis is how we respond.
Now, in fairness, most Irishpeople are going.
This is terrible.
(25:04):
My 30-year-old self thought, ohwell, if we sing all these
songs and we get out and weprotest, this will all change.
So on some levels, that's veryI could give in to despair, and
(25:24):
on other levels I go well, look,you know things do get better.
You know we don't have childrennow working for 14 hours a day
and we have moved on withwomen's rights.
I know it's kind of goingbackwards here in America, but
we have moved on at home.
So it makes you kind of it'skind of quite contradictory,
because I go, well, yeah, thosewere the things that we were all
(25:45):
working for, but also it's abit despairing, you know, to
plan it.
Rochelle (25:56):
The episode isn't over yet, but I want to take a
minute to say tell her thisneeds your support.
This is a self-funded project,but for less than a cup of
coffee you can keep this laborof love going.
Click the link in the shownotes to buy me a coffee or head
over to buymeacoffeecom.
Forward slash, tell her thisand donate what you can.
(26:19):
All right, let's get back tothe show.
I asked Karen about a time shefelt most beautiful.
Karan (26:27):
I am Irish, rochelle I mean oh, um, oh, my God, it's
probably a long time ago.
I mean, well, actually theother night we did a gig.
(26:47):
We did a.
I do these gigs in Ithaca andthey I've been doing them for 28
years and they're with theseamazing activists called the
Grady's up in Ithaca and they doall this anti-war, anti-nuclear
warheads and they, you know, Ioften I go to benefits for them,
(27:10):
I sing or whatever and I dowhatever they say, really, if
they're doing something.
I mean we only meet usually oncea year or twice a year, but I
really love them and I'msurrounded by love and there's
community there and they really,you know I feel like I can
speak openly and we all sangtogether and you know we talked
(27:33):
about making the world a betterplace.
You know we've been throughbenefits where we were anti-war,
anti-the Gulf War, anti-afghan,the war in Afghanistan, iraq.
You know we've done so manybenefits over the years.
So we've a long relationshipand I really feel held by them
(27:58):
and understood by that community, so that actually I felt
beautiful that night on thestage and I felt like connected.
Yeah, yeah.
Rochelle (28:16):
Karen was gracious enough to have our storytelling
session before giving a fullconcert later that evening.
She'd arrived quite late to thevenue, after her tour bus had
been held up in traffic comingin from the previous tour stop.
All that to say, I was veryaware of the time and didn't
want to compromise herpreparation for the stage.
(28:37):
But before we wrapped up, shemade sure to tell me about the
life of her dear friend Dorothy.
Karan (28:45):
I was going to tell you about a really good friend of
mine.
Yeah, so one of my well,probably really my best friend.
Her name was Dorothy Buchance,and when I came to America first
, which was 30 years ago, justJanuary I came actually to be a
jazz singer because I wanted tobe like Eliphas Stirls and I,
(29:10):
you know, I was a waitress and Iwas a babysitter and I also got
this job in a place calledScholastic, which edited
children's books.
I edited children's books and Igot a job as an assistant
editor, being with Dorothy inscience books which I know
(29:33):
absolutely nothing about.
I got the job because of myaccent, definitely, and anyway
she just changed my life.
I met Dorothy.
I was like I don't know why I'mhere.
I got this job, I think,because of my accent, and she
was like I don't know why I'mhere.
I got this job, I think,because of my accent, and she
was like, oh, you'll do fine,and she was just an
extraordinary woman.
(29:53):
She passed away there in Januaryand she worked for seven months
of the year in Scholastic andthen she insisted that the other
five months of the year she'dbe allowed to go away and work
on labour gates and she went toGuatemala.
She built houses.
She was in Puerto Rico.
She built houses.
She'd been in Germany, outsideAuschwitz and the Ravensbrück
(30:17):
museums, beating her drum.
She went on a huge walk.
She was in Garvahy Road inIreland, you know, as an
overseas observer.
She actually invited me up toGarvahy Road for a holiday and I
was like, are you mad?
This is like for marchingseason.
(30:44):
Anyway, I went for a bit and she, you know, uh, that you know,
documenting the women's livesthere, what it was really like
to grow up and fear, um, and shejust did, you know so many
things.
Her whole life was dedicated toeradicating poverty.
She was an educator as well andreally, really radical.
(31:09):
And you know, I just herpresence, you know, when I was
kind of very clumsily in myearly career trying to speak out
against racism, or you know theburnt out black churches was
one of the first benefits I didin America.
Or for Ireland, you know, um,roshi Magalaski was a woman who
(31:32):
was imprisoned in the north andchained to the bed when she was
giving birth.
So you know we were on a lot ofdifferent campaigns together
but I always had her, her, heroverview, you know, and you know
she'd fought so many goodfights and you know all my songs
(31:56):
.
I would run them by her.
All my writing.
She was so supportive Write thesong, write the books, keep
saying what you're saying.
And also very you, you know I'dbe crying and upset, you know,
over what this man did, or thisman said, or the fact that one
guy got four hundred dollars andI got two hundred dollars for
(32:17):
the same gig, or you know, orthe usual and uh, they always
had her to, to, to be there andlisten and be really supportive.
And I'm just really glad that Ihad her in my life.
I mean what you know?
What a gift.
She died of gallbladder cancerand I actually was on tour in
(32:49):
America here in November andthen I went to stay with her in
Manhattan, in Queens, sunnyside,and I was in the bedroom.
She had a million books.
I mean, I don't know what we'regoing to do with all the books
and beads.
When she crocheted all the timeand she had all this science
equipment and she used to giveit away with all the books and
beads.
When she crocheted all the timeand she had all this science
(33:09):
equipment and she used to giveit away to all the kids and, um,
she would all.
She was always teaching andreally interested in children
and and she would teach themabout racism and she would teach
them the real history and shewould have the difficult
conversation and she'd say, no,the kids need to know, and then
(33:29):
they need to know what they cando.
And she was so brave, you know,because we've all shied away so
much from all these topicsshe's just, she's just wonderful
and she was so kind to people.
And one of the sad things is Idon't know if she knew how much
(33:50):
we all loved her.
She was kind of surprised atthe end that we were all coming
and minding her.
Sister, I am here for you.
I was in the room looking atall the books going.
She had asked me could I startmaybe cataloguing the books and
I was like, oh Jesus, like therewere so many books and I was
(34:14):
really sitting on the bed crying.
And she was in the other roomand she answered the phone and
she said well, how are you today, young man?
Because I have terminal cancer.
Today, young man, because Ihave terminal cancer, I just
wanted to, you know, to tell youhow grateful I am to have had
(34:36):
her and you know that she waslife-changing.
Rochelle (34:46):
I asked Karen who she wanted to be at 70 years old.
Karan (34:51):
I want to be like Dorothy .
I want to be still giving out,you know, still an activist.
I want to be in a communitywhere I feel like I can draw on
people, connect and still give.
I want to be hopefullyable-bodied, able to read I read
(35:22):
a lot and just love.
I don't want to be bitter, Ireally want to fight that.
When I was 18, 19, I took itupon myself, I was in Mallorca,
I had got this job singing in abar and it didn't really work
(35:44):
out.
And so I said, because I wassinging jazz and they didn't
really want jazz, they wantedpop, whatever Sting had made
this tape with this moroccanband.
And um, I got the tape and Iloved it and I thought, oh my
god, this is amazing.
And I said I, I won't go tomorocco, right?
(36:04):
So I took off to morocco.
Oh, to be 19, 18, didn't tellmy mother really where I was
going.
I said, sure, look, I'll go toMorocco.
And I went over from south ofSpain, south, and went down to a
taxi over the mountains.
I was in Marrakech and I had acontact of a family to stay with
(36:28):
and I was standing in like thetown centre and it was
absolutely beautiful and all thearomas and spices in the market
and of course I'm there like anidiot, a fool.
I had no hat, karen, so I hadno hat.
So I was feeling kind of sick.
(36:50):
And then I went and I wasstaying in the youth hostel and
I was really sick.
I had.
I went and I was staying in theyouth hostel and I was really
sick, I had sunstroke and I wentto bed and the man behind the
desk could tell that I wasreally sick and he said you just
need to go to bed.
And then I was really sick, Iwas delirious in the bed and
(37:10):
every few hours he came in andhe rubbed something in my head,
kind of smelt like curry, and Imust have been there for two or
three days.
And then I got up and I cameout and he was on the floor
praying with his mat.
He didn't have to mind me, hedidn't have to mind this mad
(37:32):
Irish one from the middle ofnowhere, and he did, you know.
So I always try and come back tohumanity or us being tissue,
blood, bones, and try and remindmyself of that.
All the time we all get caughtup with trying to be famous or
(37:55):
trying to do the right thing orsay the right thing or sell
albums and it doesn't matter ashite, you know, unless we're
good to one another and kind andreally doing that.
Yeah, I don't know if I'vealways really been kind to
everyone, trying to push through.
(38:18):
You know, that's one of thethings I think.
Even the menopause stuff, it'slike make me go.
I need to slow down and justlook at the really good things
in my life and appreciate themand breathe.
You know Touring isn't reallyconducive to that, but you know
(38:38):
what I mean.
It is the actual importantthing and we need to connect
with each other and that's moreimportant than being a superstar
.
Rochelle (38:50):
Deep gratitude to Karen for her time and her
stories.
The tell her this podcast wascreated by Rochelle Rice with
support from DC Commission onthe Arts and Humanities.
To support this podcast, pleaseclick the link in the show
notes or visit buymeacoffeecomforward slash.
Tell her this for more.
Tell her this content.
(39:11):
Please visittellherthispodcastcom and follow
on social media at Tell Herthis Podcast.
Please share this episode witha friend and leave a rating or
review.
This episode includes music byMaya Rogers and today's
storyteller, karen Casey,editing and sound design by
Rochelle Rice, mixing andediting by Ray Jala, and I'm
(39:35):
your host, rochelle Rice, andyou can find me at Rochelle Rice
Music Across all socialplatforms.
Until next time, be true and bewell game walking on country,
walking on country we were borntoday.
Popular Podcasts
1. Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
2. Start Here
A straightforward look at the day's top news in 20 minutes. Powered by ABC News. Hosted by Brad Mielke.
3. Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.