Harry Shum Jr.

Harry Shum Jr. (Glee, Grey's Anatomy) joins Ego as her dad for the day to discuss parental expectations as the children of immigrants, the importance of kids seeing that their parents aren’t perfect, and what it was like growing up learning not to cry. Later on, they break down orange flags in dating. 

Guest: Harry Shum Jr.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is a headgum podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hi guys, I'm Ago Oodham and welcome to Thanks Dad.
If you do not know which, why would you know?
But maybe you do know because you've watched an interview
or two of mine. I was raised by a single
mom and I don't have a relationship with my dad.
You probably don't know that part. I've kept that a
little close to the vest. But also, guys, my dad
died last year. Do not feel sorry for me. Don't

(00:35):
go off. It's totally fine. I didn't have a relationship
with him, and people die. It's part of life, and
that's my grim take. So on this podcast, I'm sitting
down with father figures who are old enough to be
my dad, or are just dads themselves. Maybe we're the
same age, But I'm like, you look like a dad.
You could be my dad. I want you to be
my dad. Please be my dad. And I'm going to

(00:56):
get to the questions I've always wanted to ask a dad,
such as like I don't know how do I know
if the guy I'm dating is right for me? Or
what should I look out for when buying a car?
Or can you teach me how to change my oil?
Maybe we will take the podcast on the road and
we will see one of these father figures teach me
how to change my oil. I also don't have a car,

(01:16):
so again, maybe helps me buy a car and then
teaches me how to change oil on that car. Anyway,
I am so excited to welcome today's dad, My dad.
He's an actor, a dancer. He's best known for his
roles on Glee, Gray's Anatomy, and Everything Everywhere All at once.
He has a children's book that he co wrote with
his wife, Shelby Rabara, Marty Dares to Dance. Please welcome

(01:40):
my dad for the day. Harry shum Junior.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
Hey, hey dad, Hey heydd Hey.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Okay, okay, Harry, So you are a dad in real life,
not just in the case of me. You want to
I guess before you accept me as your daughter? Ye,
I'm being interviewed.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
I hope, I hope you will adopt me. I think
you're heading towards the record.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
Okay, okay, very good, very good. I feel like we're
all so close to age. So this is I've always
wanted to be the same age as my dad.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Daughters like big yeah, you probably that's.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
That's tragic though, imagine a full grown adult and coming
out and knowing nothing.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Wasn't that kind of a what's a movie whatever?

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Oh yeah, Oh yeah, it's kind of it. There's it's
touching on that related. Okay, tell me about being a dad.
Did you always want to be a dad?

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Uh? Yeah, I did. I always you know, I always
thought of my life as as these you know, you
hit these points in your life be like I'm gonna
get married, I'm gonna be a dad. But the dad
part was just vague, right, you know what, You're gonna
be a dad? It's fun.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Oh really, you just knew.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
I mean yeah, but you didn't think about the intricacies
of like all the things that are involved with like responsibility,
just like you think my parents did.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Okay, So were you raised by both of your parents?

Speaker 1 (03:13):
I was, Yeah, my my mom and dad there they're
immigrants from from China to Costa Rica to hear so
double okay, very immigrant, super good. But they came and yeah,
I was raised by by both of them.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Okay, And what is your dad like my dad?

Speaker 1 (03:32):
He is. He's very practical, He's very reserved in the
sense that, uh, he's a type of guy who just
likes to work, but is very responsible in the sense
like whatever the kid, whatever the family needs either. So
I was very fortunate to have that kind of baseline
of of just seeing a dad that he would it's

(03:56):
my duty. It's like, it's my duty to do this.
Everything else is kind of like okay, yeah, we'll figure
it out. Okay, it's here your dad.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Okay, where did they? Where did you from? It was China,
Costa Rica and then the States? Yes, San Francisco, Okay,
from the Bay Bay? Do you do the like a
little e forty? What is it going?

Speaker 3 (04:16):
Dumb?

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Is that you remember that you're a dancer?

Speaker 1 (04:18):
That was the thing when I was that time. Well,
it's funny because I moved from We went to San
Francisco for like two years, and then we moved to
San Luis Obispo, which is completely different.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
Okay, are there even people of color there?

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Very rare? Okay, I happen to be. Those are like
the friends that I still only talk to. Really, wait,
so did you do you did high school? And don't
you guys call it slow slow because I went to.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
College here and so I know too much about Yeah,
it's almost as though I'm from here and every once
in a while, people will say, we're in Los Angeles
right now, guys, it's a spoiler.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
It was.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
People will say to me like, oh, you're I know
you was from California. I go, oh, I'm from Baltimore.
I am from Baltimore. I'm not from California. But I
did become an adult here, if you will. I turned in,
I figured, and I stay. I was here until I
moved to New York. But so I know a little bit.
I know a little bit. I know you guys call
it slow. That's ironic that you are still very good

(05:16):
friends with those high school frids, because I feel like
so many people are not friends with their high school friends.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
I mean, you know, there's people that it's funny because
you hear about them. And I'm not on like Facebook
or anything, so I don't know what's happening. But I
we moved down here together to pursue dance, so that became,
you know, it was I'm so glad we had that foundation,
so like going back to even like like not having
that and parents that might not know My parents didn't

(05:44):
know what I was doing, like going to school and
what you know, I know.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
Me, but you know, like and how wait, honestly, okay,
when you told your dad and your mom that you
wanted to be a dancer, and so you first of all,
you didn't go to college and say that, right, I
couldn't even say dance. I'm like, yeah, because I can't
even imagine. I did ballet for ten years as from
like seven to seventeen, but it was like a hobby.

(06:12):
I don't and I didn't want to be a dancer.
But I don't know how my mother might have even
taken it if I had said, I know, I want
to do ballet and I want to go to Juliar, Like,
I don't know how she would have wrapped her head
around that.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
Yeah, there's no camp, right, there's no there's no comp
for them to be like my first thing is like
anything in entertainment industry. My dad's like, they do drugs there,
right wait, okay, so I went straight to not like
what do you like? Yeah, they do drugs there. There's
drugs there, drugs there, Like, don't be don't be around that.
I was just like, okay, fair, yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
There are there are there are drugs here.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
You know, you get in a finance, you'd be a daughter.
Just do it like everything Wall Street, come on. They
hadn't seen that, they hadn't seen that, but uh they
I had to approach it in a very different manner,
like I started going. I went back to San Francisco
State to go to school. I couldn't process. I'm just
not academia like that. That whole I just wasn't built

(07:10):
for that. And there's there's a reason for that, because
when I first moved to America, I struggled with learning
English because I spoke Spanish in my first language, Chinese
was my second language, and then English. My parents just
kind of said, hey, you figure it out. And I
was young, Yeah, get it. But at the same time,
I at like five years old, You're like, what what

(07:30):
are the people saying?

Speaker 2 (07:32):
Right?

Speaker 1 (07:32):
It sounded like.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
And I would like to hear that about us, by
the way, because in our minds were always like, you
have an accent. They have an accent, they have an accent.
I'm like, or we might have an accent. And to
everyone who speaks a different language, we sound like.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
What does it sound like? Because we can, we can,
we can, we can do how other languages sound like,
but never and that was what it felt to me,
and it was just and my parents couldn't help me.
My sisters were also figuring. I have two older sisters.
They're figuring their stuff out, and they helped as much
as they could. But you know, so schooling was not
something that I thought like, hey, I want to go

(08:07):
to this college and pursue this. It was just like
survive every day, survived. And so when it got to
the point I was like it was a big step
and was like I don't want to do this. I
don't want to go to this school and try and
pursue this. And somehow dance kept pulling me back. And
so when when I found out there was nothing in
me for San Francisco, moving down to La with my

(08:30):
friends were just like, well we don't know what we
want to Thank god, people don't know what do you have?
Bitsiness just to survive. But like then when we moved
down and I had to figure out, like, okay, the
first thing, my dad's like, well, financially what what how
are you going to survive? Which is a very important thing.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
Fair question, because he's like it wasn't kind of like
I don't ask me exactly, but if you do, will help.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
But like, let's not go down that.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Okay. Can I ask you a very vulnerable question, Did
you grow up rich?

Speaker 1 (09:02):
No?

Speaker 2 (09:02):
Okay, no, honestly, okay, because you know that thing where
rich people are like, I really didn't grow up with
We didn't have that much and I'm like, compared to
your billionaire.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
Friend, we were we were like lower middle class. It
wasn't like we weren't poor. But but my dad came
from poverty and in Costa Rica he had a hardware
store business that you know, it started from literally nothing
to so now he has two that are that are
still in custrinc He still hasn't oh really in Costa Rica.

(09:34):
In Costa Rica, so he's just kind of in that
mentality of like not much of a like like investments,
but just like just work. Sure, okay, keep it going right.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
But okay, can I ask you then, in terms of
your dad and that mentality and work, work and just
keep it going, does he have like a retirement plan?
Does he?

Speaker 1 (09:50):
Like?

Speaker 2 (09:51):
No, it's interesting, I mean, I don't know if it's interesting,
but similar with I feel like my mom and all
my friends who are first gen or most of my
friends who are first gen when we talk about retirement
funds with parents and they're like, what we just we work?

Speaker 1 (10:06):
You want to do that?

Speaker 2 (10:07):
You work until you die, which kind of sucks to
think because now we're growing up here and kind of
like oh wait, no, Susan's dad retired when he was
fifty one and he's just like now traveling the world
and doing whatever other interesting things he wants to do.
And so I'm like, okay, so no, we'retiring, But do
you think your dad enjoys working?

Speaker 1 (10:24):
Would you say enjoys its? Okay, it's weird, it's it's
it's you know, it's this beautiful thing. But also it
makes it breaks my heart in ways because it's like
he was doing it because obviously to survive, you know,
I always survive is such a big word because that's
that's what he that's all he knew. And then when

(10:44):
you got to enjoy a little bit like have family,
it was more about well, provide for the right. And
then when I think with a lot of parents deal
with like am I needed? Yeah, it's like the need
like especially fathers, I feel if you're not needed, then
as as a man, like you feel like WHOA, what
is my purpose? Now?

Speaker 2 (11:05):
Okay? Can I ask like with your awareness of that
and recognizing that in fathers and being like oh if
I if I'm not needed, I kind of am floundering
and I don't understand my purpose with that awareness. Do
you think it helps you in your in your familiar
relationship and your now nuclear family to go that do
you think that like that, Okay, that's some ego I

(11:26):
should look out for. Where it's like, do you feel
the need to be needed? I?

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yeah, I think I do. I didn't think I did,
because you you just think like, well what does that mean? Right,
like to feel needed from friends, from you know, significant other,
from your kids, even honestly your parents, as as some
some would like I are at that idea of like

(11:51):
my parents need this, But I think when when it
doesn't become like I don't want to use the word toxic,
but like, no, I don't know what the word is.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
There are some words that just there's some I don't
really feel.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
But like if you get a text or you get
a call say hey, I need you, Like what do
you feel? Right? You feel like, yeah, what what do
you what do you need it? And it's like an
important thing or what And a lot of people don't
experience that anymore. Yeah, no one needs anyone anymore. And
I just think that has become a big issue on
on trying to figure out like what one that's community,

(12:26):
because the community is there's a baker. You need the baker,
you need like someone to take care of the kids,
and someone that you need people to do things. So
when you're not needed for a purpose, it becomes a
really tricky issue to kind of navigate, right.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
It's interesting though, like I feel having a sense of
purpose I think is like paramount to just feeling fulfilled
once you have your basic needs met. Having that sense
of purpose and feeling like this is what I contribute
is really important. And I do think we're moving to
a place. I mean, society looks very different from now,

(13:03):
Like this is the town's baker, and this person knows
how to take care of our cars, and so it
is interesting to see how that has affected people. I mean,
dad's anybody Frankly, if you don't have that sense of
purpose and that sense of feeling needed, but then you wonder,
like how much of that can you give to yourself

(13:23):
and know this is what I contribute? Like maybe I
don't know because I've never been a dad, and that's
why this podcast is so interesting to me. But I'm like,
I am committed to being the best dand father I
never had. I wonder if there's anything to a dad going.
I'm not needed anymore in the same way by my

(13:46):
children nor my spouse, Like yeah, they my family's okay.
My children are okay, they're stable, they have their own
families that they're providing for. They're doing fine. If there's
a sense of like ex hill and peace and like
now I can rest or, if rest if working feels
RESTful to you, I can do this, do this and
it's fun to me, or I'm going to work for enjoyment.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
You're interesting with the he because my dad. It's funny
because my dad, he says as often every time, like
trying to help him, He's like, I don't I don't
need like anything from like I'm you guys are succeeding
and that all the satisfaction I need. He's like, I
don't need it, and it's just it. For a while,

(14:28):
I didn't know how to process that. It's just like, well,
you should want something like that. I don't want anything.
He's like, I'm good, I'll take care of my stuff
and like, you guys are good. I don't want to
burden your your family that you have. Now. It's interesting
because you see someone like, for instance, someone man or
woman is able to do a lot of things themselves,

(14:49):
like fixed cars, whatever, everything, and they're capable of doing
this thing and they don't need anyone right to do
these to live a life, right, but that it's kind
of lonely mm hm, because it's a lot to place
on one person, right, Yeah, And I know that a
lot of like even when you're talking about single parenting,
like a lot of them have to do that right

(15:11):
and they have to find that but they can't be
I'm sure. And I want to hear more about your mom,
Like that has to be exhausting.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, I think that if I can say she didn't
give me permission. But I'm like, and I'm no therapist,
but I'm like, ah, I think this is what burnout
looks like. I mean, she was like a superhero. She
went to medical school after having the four of us
while single, like and with the help of her siblings.

(15:38):
We lived in Jersey for a year or two when
I was growing up and live with my aunt and
uncle and my cousins and we all grew up like
one big family of siblings. But she did that, and
all I ever saw her do was go, go, go, go,
go and manage all of it. But I'm like, oh,
that's how you exhaust yourself. Granted, I'm so grateful for

(15:59):
the she provided for us, and I'm so grateful for
the example she provided for us. But yeah, I that's
I don't know that that's how it's supposed to be.
I really sincerely, I can't imagine that that's how it's
supposed to be because they go, oh, man, the age I am. Now,
I'm like, you had four kids and you were on
a journey in med school and I'm like, I'm floundering around,

(16:20):
like what kind of macha doing I'm trying the macha
at this place in Dumbo and this place, and so
I'm like, what a different life. But I do imagine again,
I'm like, that's that that has produced burnout And it's
like you did it and you were able to and
I'm so deeply grateful. I think like single parents are superheroes, truly.

(16:41):
I mean, this is this is not comparable. I do
not want parents to come at me, though some parents
will agree with this. I think this is chaotic what
I'm about to say. I got a puppy last year
because I used to think, like, oh, I could be
a single parent if it comes down to it, and
like maybe it's we're in a different time, so like
I'll freeze my eggs and you know, I'll go to

(17:01):
a sperm bank and have a child if that's what
I so choose to do, and it'll it'll be fine,
and I'm sure it would be fine. But I got
a puppy last year, like a baby, a little baby guy.
Thank you so much, thank you so much, honestly, and
training it's a living thing and I will not compare
it to being a mother, and I'm not trying to,
but even just that little foray into taking care of

(17:24):
this thing that needed your attention, or it'll destroy your
own by yourself. I was like, oh, never mind, I
would never want to. I personally will not be opting
for to be a single parent if I can help it.
It's I don't think it's necessarily a path. A ton
of people choose people do choose it, and I think
some people I know of women who have chose it
and are happy. I just had that experience, and I thought,

(17:47):
oh my gosh, this is this is really exhausting. And
I thought about my mom, and I thought about the
kind of life she gave us, and I thought about
how you know this podcast, the conceit of it being
that I was raised by a single mom and don't
have a relationship with my dad. Truth be told, I
don't know that I felt. And even now as I
reflect as an adult, I'm like, I don't know that
I felt I was missing out on too much.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
I had.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
Tons of male figures in my life who were wonderful,
and I just felt I felt so loved and I
felt so valued and prescious, precious, And so I think
she did an incredible job. But yeah, I think it's lonely.
I imagine it's alone. You want to have that shared experience,
you know, at least for me, And that's my guess
is that that would be more ideal for many people.

(18:31):
But then you have some people who are like, I
don't want I don't want that, and I prefer my independence.
And so I'm like, going, especially.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Whoever go off and well, do you think we're in
this world now that we're more connected than ever, that
we're we're trying to share these insights right that we
have and and but also on the other side, we're

(19:02):
saying this is the right way, and it's like there's
no right way. And that's what I'm learning as being
a parent. It's like, no right ways. It's like at
that moment, what you're doing, as long as it's done
with some sort of kindness, right or the right intention.
I guess the right word is is going to be
the way. And then if you say that to someone
else and be like what or they try it and

(19:24):
they fail miserably and be like that's terrible advice, Like
but it worked for me, might not work for you,
you know, and you kind of have to have this
Like I think we were missing that gut instinct about things,
like because the gut instinct is for you, not for
anyone else, right, more like, yeah, how how does this feel?
Right now? Let me go with that.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
You mentioned that your dad asked you, I just have
to get back to like your dad asked you, how
are you going to this support yourself, pay for your life,
pay your bills while you're pursuing dancing. What was that conversation?

Speaker 1 (20:06):
Like it was I was you know, I I grew
up when my parents put me to work like ten,
you know, kind of like like just pealing because they
own a Chinese restaurant over in specific Grover Beach, but
like sanlus Pisco area, and I would just peel like
egg rolls and peel the salaries, wash them like just

(20:28):
like and then they kind of build off that became
a waiter like like like a not a not a cook,
but like the prep work, did all the prep work.
So you know, they paid me, so it wasn't like
crazy child, but you know they did it for the

(20:48):
purpose of just like get it. This is going to
help you. And then and then there was a moment
when they had to figure stuff out and they're like,
help pay the bills. Not for MI, but just like
learn how that experience. Learn how to bounce check books,
know how to write it, go to the mail box,
you know, do all the things they.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
Weren't teaching us in school. By the way, I I
don't need long division really. Maybe I don't need Pythagorian
theorem right now, but I do know it square plus
be squared equals square. Yeah, but it's whatever.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
It's going to get you far, it's going to really
pay the podcast. Okay, but okay, and then so I
I knowing that I had to come up with a
plan like, okay, this is if you know. I looked
at uh kind of the rates for tours and the
dance tours and music videos wasn't paying much. But you

(21:39):
figure that out, you factor it in. You're like, well,
if I book one of these or do one of these,
this is how how much I would make if I
went for three months. I would like I would, I
would write it all out and I would explain that
to him. It's like, okay, well there is money. I
don't understand how this, but they're like okay. And I
was like, let me try for a year and I
will go back to school if if I fail, and

(22:00):
and and they're like okay, but like every three months,
like are you going back to school?

Speaker 2 (22:06):
I'm curious today still because I have friends who are
on television shows. I'm screaming, I'm sorry, but I have
friends who are on television shows, very successful shows, and
they're like every once in a while, my my mom
or my dad would be like, you should go back
to school still, but it's like I think I'm doing okay.
People know my name, I'm working at paying the bills
two times over, and I've.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
Got their world right and the world is still still
a different world for them, right.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
And I've told the story before, but the one moment
when I felt that they got it was actually two moments.
Was one when I made it into the Chinese newspaper.
Oh wow, of course Chinese newspaper. They read it like
this made you made it. You made it. It was
like maybe three hundred people read that.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
But okay, but they get to brag about you.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
They get to brag but in their own language and
what they understand, and their friends can kind of like
the context for that. Ye family, they get send in
the family.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Right, and that's our Yeah, we get our son Star.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
And when I when I when I worked on UH
in New Zealand, I shot a movie with Michelle Yo
and Donni Yene and those people that that we grew
up watching. So that was a connection that was really
so this came like ten years.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
You're like okay and making money and like that's when
they go back to school maybe.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Star Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so funny. Even now, like
I'm playing a doctor on Gray's Anatomy and and the
last name is Kwan and that's my mom's maiden name.
But she's like, okay, you like you're a doctor. We
love to see.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. I wonder are your siblings also
in the arts or no?

Speaker 1 (23:43):
No, my mom my, my mom my, my, my sister.
She is does assistant executive assistant work and then uh
is a warner.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
An okay, and then they're proud of her.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
I'm The thing about it is as I'm first gen too,
I really and I've told this story as well about
my I studied biology. I was pre med because it's
kind of just what my mom knew, and it's kind
of all I knew because by virtual of being raised
by her. And I grew up in Baltimore. And so
let me say that again. I grew up in Baltimore
because we were gonna be mad about how I said Baltimore.

(24:20):
Every time I say Baltimore. Yeah, people go, I'll say
Baltimore sometimes okay, and people go, wait a minute, who
aren't even from there?

Speaker 1 (24:27):
I go, isn't it Balmore? And I don't know.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
We don't say Baltimore. It's Baltimore and.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
Baltimore.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
It's not that it's Baltimore, but I'll sometimes I haven't
lived there so long, I'll say Baltimore. Anyway, I studied
biology pre med I came out to LA to do that.
And I know a lot of people are like, man,
that's a lot of familiar pressure for them to want
you to do something else. But as a first gen person,
I understand it came from a place of like, I

(24:57):
just want you to be stable. And what I know
is stable is like people are always gonna need doctors.
That is a profession. I don't think yes, right, I'm like,
it's not going anywhere. And so I totally I totally
got that. I mean, once you explain that to your
your dad, what it would look like for you to
have the salary of a dancer or have had the

(25:18):
experience friends, she.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
Said, what okay, okay for a month, but you got
your twelve months.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
What was in that twelve months? What happened?

Speaker 1 (25:30):
I booked. I booked a tour with this pop star,
young pop star named Casey that took us. So it
was a weekend of me moving and I was taking
a dance class. And these are choreogravers, Jon and Jamal.
They did like usher and like huge choreographs. They came
up to me and saw me in dance classes, were like, hey,
we need another dancer, blah blah blah, like what you're doing,

(25:54):
and mind you, I was auditioning before, like I was
driving back and forth. It's audition and never really booked anything.
So it was like, yeah, I'm in a dance class
and I read, but it took us. It opened up
for town.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Yeah, yeah, making the band I remember that, and we
toured Europe and it was his first time I was
in Europe. Got paid seven hundred dollars a week for
which you know it's for doing for dancing.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
Fine, did you have rent back here in the States?
So I lived with my Yeah, we lived. I lived
with all my friends, Okay, great. Rent was like three
hundred bucks, like literally like you turn over and you're like, hey,
what's up many So luckily that was okay, okay, So
it was like low expenses and then you know, low income,

(26:44):
so it all worked out.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
Okay. So and that's you're saying, that happened like one
week into like your one year person. Wow, incredible, So
you felt good, right.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
So good? And then I didn't work for like seven
months and that's how that's how you get there and
you get that high. It's just like, yeah, I'm on tour.
Everyone knows me. There's like no noise, and.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
That's the drugs your dad chasing.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
He's like drugs.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
What kind of advice while you were so since your
dad didn't have any context for what it is you
were pursuing and you were sort of trying to paint
that picture for him, was there any advice he gave
you in your pursuit that was helpful to you.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
I think the biggest part is don't don't owe anyone
money and help people if you can't. That's like that
was the thing that always stuck out with me. It's
just like, don't owe anyone money. And then I was like, okay.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
Okay, got it, I won't. But you were paying your
rent every month, your three d.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Dollars those things. I was also teaching a lot of
my you know, my friends taught me so much, like
how how to interact with the world. But then I
also was helpful in the sense like, well, this is
how you bounce your check book, this is what you
do to cook.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
Because you knew because you dad taught you that.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
They both like, they both taught me these kind of
life skills that just allowed me to at least like
survive without like I can, I don't have to eat
out right, I can just figure out how to cook something.
It was great.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
It was my big problem. I love to eat, even
though my mom did try to tell me there's food
in the house, it's better to make your own food.
It's better to make your own food. And now I'm like, totally, ma'am,
I am, but it's really good to go to a
restaurant sugar fish, yes, exactly, make sugarfish at home. What
so your dad, how would you describe him? You mentioned

(28:35):
your mom obviously was also teaching you these life skills.
Moms are superheroes. I just want to say, I think
moms are absolute superheroes. What they do, the whole idea
of birth, it's all crazy to me. And so, but
how would you describe your dad? And then I want
to hear how you would describe your mom? If you
like three words? You know that question they say, how
would your friends describe you in three words? I'm like,

(28:56):
how would you describe your dad in three words?

Speaker 1 (29:01):
I would say my dad is supportive, he's uh, well,
this is hard to do.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
I know, no one ever asks us to do that
about our parents. I've never been Yeah, no one ever does.
But I'm like people ask you might go on a
job interview and someone says, like, how would you how
would your friends describe you in three words? Or how
would you describe yourself in three words? I mean, I
don't know what I would say right now if you
ask me to describe my mom in three words. Let's
try Let's try it together. Okay, Okay, I have a mom,

(29:32):
so let's start with moms and then we'll go to
your dad because I don't have a dad. And I
could try to describe you in three words just based
on a little bit of time we've spent together. Okay,
I'm gonna think about this. Is there thinking music? We
can play Zach Corny? Okay, see you get something a
little cooler. He's a dancer, he's bopping. And I was like,

(29:52):
I was like Jeopardy exactly, I'm like the nerve and
also notoriously bad at Jeopardy. Over here and you turn
on a hip hop maybe a freestyle, Okay, I would
say my mom is reserved, driven and highly sensitive, even

(30:15):
though she don't know it probably, but she's sensitive, very sensitive.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah, yeah, that the sensitive part is it's interesting because
we don't think that sometimes our parents can be sensitive
because they might, you might, it's hard to show it
because they're shown it as weakness. Yeah, but it's not.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
I think, yeah, it's not. But I also again with
other friends who have parents who are not from this country,
I don't think that's a thing that our parents are
necessarily eager to show. And I don't even know that
it's unique to parents who are immigrants, Like I don't
necessarily think parents want to show their children weakness, Like

(30:55):
I don't think that they want to, And so I
think that you want to. I imagine. I'm not a parent,
but I imagine part of making your kids feel safe
and secure and protected is making them feel like you've
got it under control.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
Yeah, or like I'm learning that it's I think it's
more like you don't know what to do with weakness,
because I think there's something to do with weakness. It's
just to show that, like what you can work on
yea or or or what that weakness is and does
it pertain to how like does that actually make a difference. Yeah,
it's oh, yeah, I don't know how to do that.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah cool, yeah, let's learn right, right, right.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
And I think we've taken that weakness as a failure
when like, also how we look at failure. It's we
talk about a lot like you need to fail. Yeah, yeah,
you have to. Everyone has a weakness, everyone, right, Like
it's crazy if you don't have a weakness. It's like
you do. And as strong as you you think you are,
or everyone says you are, you have weakness.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Well the you say, like I've I've listened. I listened
to a lot of podcasts, and I feel like I
heard on one particular podcast, there was some segment about, like,
you know, it's important for your kids to see you
for even for their mental health, to see you upset
or feel like you have failed, and to see you
then recover from that whatever has made you upset, and

(32:16):
see you recover from whatever you failed. That it's important
for them to see all of that as you're not
meant to make your kids think you're perfect. That's you're
not supposed to. In fact, it's perhaps a big disservice
to them to do that, and it's important for them
to see your humanity so that they know what to
do when they're in when they fail or they feel

(32:37):
like they have a weakness, they can look and go, oh,
but I, you know, or something is very upsetting to them,
like I saw mommy or daddy or you're upset what
they do and then I saw yeah, and they and
I saw them upset and they thought they did this
to get over it. And then they do get it.
We know what they got over it, and so I
can get over this. And I don't know growing up
for me, and I don't think it's a reflection of
just my mom. I do really just think we live

(32:59):
in a very different time than the time when I
was growing up and I was young. But I don't
know that any of my friends in childhood would have
been like, oh, yes, I got to see my like
I saw my dad or mom really upset and they
shared that with me, or you know, they didn't shield
that from me. But I also saw them, you know,
put themselves back together. I was just watching a docu

(33:20):
series where someone was like, my parents wanted to get divorced.
I didn't know the whole time. This is just an
aside hearing in the background of it was a dancer,
but like my parents kept it together for me and
I didn't even know what was going on, and like
they were just waiting for me to be to graduate
high school. And then they got divorced and they didn't
deep dive onto like how that impacted her. But I

(33:41):
was sort of like, is that good that the whole
time she thinks the experience, yeah, they're in perfect comedy. Yeah,
but it was like, no, it's it's I thought it
was harmony. And then like I turned eighteen and they're like, okay, yeah,
and we're getting divorced.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
I'm like, I don't know if that's good or bad,
but I do want you to describe your dad in
three words before were not off the unfortunately, and I
may never ask anyone else to do this, so this
could be just a harrisham exclusive.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yeah, he's strong. I think honest is a big thing
for someone like my dad, telling you know, he would
always just don't don't trick anyone, don't try and cheat
you away through anything. So those are the things that
stuck with me, and I think for practical yeah yeah, strong, honest,

(34:33):
practical yeah yeah. And I think those are those baseline
things that you know, we want to think like extraordin
because I think my dad is extraordinary in the sense
that he how what he I mean what he is
crazy when you think of any immigrants, but like doing
it twice is just crazy. I know from the whole language.
He actually almost did it four times. He went to Montreal,

(34:55):
he went to Costa Rica, went to Montreal. He's just like,
it's too cold, and you know, he started learning French
up there and he was just like, Okay, it's too cool.
And then we went back and to Costa Rica and
then moving up here. So like just the level of
also going he apparently during the time in China he
was on the cusp of things were happening and his

(35:18):
grandpa was well off and then just dropped like nothing.
So you know, it was it was almost like as
a kid, you don't understand that, like you're like, oh,
one day you're in a house and next day you're
in a shack, yeah, sleeping on like some hay hey,
you know. So to see that, I think the practical

(35:39):
stuff is like one of those things that I think
we've lost of one of the foundation because we're thinking, so,
what do you want in life? Is just like, let's
just get the practical stuff first, the foundation, and then
you can then you can start picking things right that
make you happy. I guess right.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
That's that's a fascinating experience of his.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
I have.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
I have one friend who was like, I grew up
so wealthy, and then my sophomore year of high school,
my dad, who was their stepdad, she was like squandered
it all and then it was like we're pretty poor.
We're pretty poor now. And I'm like so remarkably fascinated
by that experience and how that informs someone's worldview for

(36:20):
better or for worse. And when you say your dad
is strong and present, like, I'm assuming you mean emotionally strong.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
Yeah, emotionally mentally, but there's also some the things that
aren't helpful and kind of not being able because the
one thing I didn't have with my dad is like
talking emotional anything emotional. It was always to my mom,
which is standard, but I mean, I'm learning how to
because luckily growing up with two sisters, mainly households of

(36:48):
women that compared to just me and my dad, you know,
it was always the femininity and masculinity energy was strong
on both es. So I was able to. Also, I
was a very sensitive kid myself, and I think it's
not not understanding what the world was, and no one
really fully explaining it to me other than the things

(37:09):
that I told, like my dad taught me, but the
other stuff I had, like Uncle.

Speaker 4 (37:15):
Phil because everyone's dead, you know, and then like you know,
and then our Jewish drama teacher he was like kind
of you know, So I learned different philosophies, ways of parenting,
or at least father figures in different in different places.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Yeah, I think that's a key thing that even when
I speak about my experience, I feel oftentimes I'm like
if I say I was raised by a single mom
and really like my dad wasn't part of my life,
the void I feel people immediately assume I felt. But
I really believe that your dad can be a father figure,
but so can other people. Like so can other people,

(37:53):
which is why I've called you here to be my
dad about I mean, that's really good. Am I winning
you over?

Speaker 1 (38:00):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Thank god? I'm like, but I really believe that when
you start to really understand your parents as humans, and
we were saying this before we hit record today, like
they just have a set of tools, and it's just
your parents are merely people who have had children and
are generally, generally speaking, trying their best. You can. You

(38:22):
can be informed by so many different people in your life,
and so many people can sort of step into that
parental or mentor position in your life. Teachers. I have
teachers from high school that I I cared, not even
so much what they thought it was. I remember when
I went to college, I was like, I want to
make mister Wrestler and mister Spivey proud, and mister Wait.

(38:44):
I wanted to make them proud, and they were. They
have their own families and their own kids, but they
made left such an impression on me that that's what
I wanted. Did you feel like at any time did
you like actually try to take emotion to your dad
and was that you How did you learn that It's like, oh,
he's maybe not the one to like try to take
this my sensitivities too.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Yeah, it was later in life happened. I think growing
up it was, you know, it is what he was taught,
like don't don't cry? Sure, like why you crying so much?
And you know I've learned when you say that to
someone they they can't if they can't process it, and
no one's even helping them to understand what that those

(39:26):
emotions are. You know, it's just so there's no plug
because I'm not in it at all, like inside out,
and like the movie is just that helps a kid
process like, oh that's an emotion, just just just the simplicity,
whether it's right or wrong. It's like that is identifying
as like oh, anxiety or like you know, happiness, joy, anger,
Like those are those things that you do have to

(39:48):
work with because you know, when when it's suppressed and
say don't don't feel this way, then you're like, well,
something in the mechanics inside of me is wrong. Wrong,
engineering is messed up when it's it's really not it's
being expressed a certain way. And you know, I think
culturally it wasn't something that they were I mean, they

(40:09):
don't teach you in school. So if your parents didn't
give it to you, and you're not and all you're
doing is working, you're surrounded by people who think about
only working. There's no there's emotion behind it, but there's
only one. It's just kind of like which can turn
into something really bad greed, you know, but there's there's
there's that's the set of tools. I think when going

(40:30):
back to like not being able to if you don't
have if you came from something or it came from
a lot of money and didn't have anybody, if you
had a set of tools that get you back up
there if you need to, that's the most important part,
not the money. But it's really like the tools.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Right there, right, I mean, it's so interesting the we
just really I say it, and I say it all
the time, and I'm like, I know, it's not the
most profound thing. In fact, it's pretty rudimentary that. I'm like,
we just are growing up in such a different context
even to say you're going to therapy, and this stigma
has largely, at least in the circles that I'm a part,

(41:04):
have been lifted. And to be able to name your
emotion and be able to be vulnerable and share your
emotions with one another. Whereas vulnerability something like crying, which
is quite vulnerable, I grew up thinking that was weak too.
I grew up thinking like, you don't cry. I remember
saying that. I was like, I don't cry, and I
remember like sensitive. No, Honestly, I'm so sensitive. But it's like,

(41:26):
it's so important to be able to name your emotions.
That's so empowering. And I was listening to someone recently
say that, like, we have equated mental health to mean
perfectly stable and sort of zen in a way where
it's like nothing can shake you. But and we've conflated
it to mean that, but that's not what it means.

(41:49):
According to the psychologist, it was like, it means you
have an appropriate response to a stimulus.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
It's like if you are.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
Really excited about an audition for to be to tour
with some artists, and you're really close and you're so
excited and you love this artist and your friends are
getting to do it, and and you don't get it,
and you're not upset when you don't get it. The
psychologist was like, that's mentally unhealthy. That would be strange.
But we didn't. I say, we like we grew up together.

(42:17):
But I'm like, I didn't grow up with that.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
We grew up. I do enjoyed it.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
Yes, me too, And I'm like, you're my friend, yes.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
Oh yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
Are you a strict parent though? Would you say sugar?

Speaker 1 (42:34):
Okay, okay, that's fair honestly, it's you know, my wife,
Shelby is an incredible mom and makes makes it all
just very easy in sense like she does She's gonna
be able to do the things that I'm not good at,
you know, And and I try and be also vulnerable,

(42:55):
but also at the same time I look at like,
what does she do well? And I'm gonna work on
the stuff that I can I do? How can I come,
you know, and you know, and just like work together
as opposed to like, we're both really good at this thing,
and let's get good at this thing, which I think
is important too, just to know what it feels like.
It's kind of like walking in someone else's shoes for
a little bit, just going okay, yeah, I get this,

(43:15):
yes exactly.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Well, even when you say I was gonna ask you,
I was gonna I go, do you and your wife
really feel like teammates while raising your daughter or they're like,
I mean, and that's what you look at a basketball team.
I'm just I'm just brand new into sports and I'm like, oh, yes,
that's the shooter, and that's the person who's gonna be
a point guard. And thank god you said point guard
because I was gonna be like, I cannot name another

(43:38):
role again, I'm a baby baby sports person. But it's
when you when you're describing that dynamic and going, she's
really good at this. I don't have to like go
out of my way and strain to become good at
this thing. Shelby is good at this thing, and I'm
really good at this thing over here that chances are
Shelby's also really good.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
Right.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
It sounds like but like it's it's interesting to hear, like, yeah,
I'm taking the teammate approach. And as a child who
grew up again with a single parent, one of my
few curiosities really is that I go because again I
feel like I was raised wonderfully. I feel really grateful.
I didn't feel some grandvoid. But when in these conversations,
I go, ah, yes, the balance of parenting where you

(44:19):
go my my mom is this way. But then my
dad showed me this thing. I'm curious, like, do you
foresee like a world in which your daughter goes to
Shelby and says like you see it in the sitcoms
when we were growing up. It's like I asked, I asked, Mom,
if I can go to the dance and she said no,
and I'm going to go to dad.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
Can I go to the dance? Okay? Does that? You know?
I going? I because my wife chose raising single mom too,
like so I kind of got a glimpse of that.
And I also don't doubt and you know that she
could do it by herself. Yeah, it's just gonna be harder.

(45:02):
And I kind of look at life like, Okay, how
can you just make things less harder on yourself and
for other people that you love? Yes, yes, that's really
what it comes down to. So you know it's possible.
And I think we always have this conversation, especially in
the Internet, about like, well, what's the right way? Who
can who can do it better? What's you know it

(45:23):
worked for some people but won't work for this person.
It's just kind of like, well, some people just out
of survival will just assume the other position and they're
just going to have to do more work. It's kind
of like anything you do, like whatever profession you do,
if you have to eat someone else, it's like like
like you know, responsibilities, there's a lot more work, Yes, yeah,

(45:43):
compared to you've any position you've been in. If if
it's given like oh, okay, so this person can do
xxx X so allows me to focus and enjoy this
process right and enjoy the process of parenting. So I
don't know, but then you developed the skin over time
where it becomes like I don't know if you've had

(46:04):
this with you know, acting or even even in comedy,
like when you reach a certain level when it becomes
like normal to you and someone just starting off is like,
this is so hard, and you're like, well, this is
we're talking about. Oh, we've been doing this.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
I just was asked recently if it's a challenge to
do comedy right now, and I was like, I'm going
to say no. I'm going to say no. All I
have is my experience and you're asking You are asking
me if it's challenging to me, but yes, to somebody
else it would be challenging. But I have built the

(46:39):
resilience at this point by virtue of my experience to say,
to answer this question, it's a no for me dog,
And so I'm like, no, it's not. But it is.
When you speak to like even your wife's upbringing or
the way my mother raised me, you will just you
will assume the position that what ever is required of

(47:00):
you like you're going to step up, and so I
just feel like your tolerance for certain things, it just
looks different. It's just different. And maybe this is not
the ideal situation, but now your tolerance is different, and
what you're able to manage and what you're able to juggle,
it's just different.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
I could never give an advice to someone a single mom.
That's just like, my advice is going to be like well, okay, yeah, yeah,
unless you take it by bits and bits and pieces,
which I think that's life, right, You take bits and
bits and pieces of what works for you great, doesn't
right off the door toss it out? Do you?

Speaker 2 (47:31):
I mean, do you want your daughter because you mentioned
like again meeting her with a curiosity, even if it's
about something that you're like, little uncomfortable for me. But
I never want to leave her hanging in her vulnerability,
which I again, I'm just like if I hear that
and I go, that's beautiful and that's powerful, and I
think that that's really important. Do you want her to
be able to talk to you about anything? Or in

(47:51):
your dream scenario, is she like going to mom for
certain things and not coming to you.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
I think whatever, whatever, it's I can't predict what is
going to happen, what she's going to have, Yeah, outside
of the norm and the basics that you've gone through,
and at the end of the day, she's going to
have better advice in certain places. And like the things
that my dad taught me really well, like the practical
like information that that I think we we It's crazy.

(48:19):
You look at Internet and you're like, when there's huge
videos that are talking about specifically finances or whatever, like
that's the most basic thing. And again, people weren't taught that,
so they need that information. And so you accumulate over time,
you accumulate a lot of experience on how you see
the world, which might not be the same when they

(48:42):
grew up.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
I know, I keep talking like you got to do
this well, I know, And it's even even hearing myself.
Sometimes I'll on conversation be like, I don't know about college,
even though I grew up thinking like you've got to
go to call, you have to go to college. At
least for me, it didn't feel like an option. And
I'm like, now I look at society, I look at

(49:04):
what I do for work. I don't regret the path
that I took. I don't, but I go. I don't
know that that's totally necessary. I don't really and it
feels I don't know if this is wrong or a
big or big college is going to cancel me. But
like I'm just like, I don't know that that. I
don't know that we're living in a society if it

(49:24):
if it wasn't totally necessary back then, it's it's looking
less and less necessary to me.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Now. We're not looking at the ratio of like what's
the cost and benefit? Right? Yeah, we're not really looking
at that and face value of I'm going to go
and do this thing. Yeah, and also not just monetary,
but also just out of passion, right Like, is that

(49:50):
passion equate to the time and effort that you're going
to put into this right along with you know, monetarily,
is it gonna like you have to look at all
these things and it won't work for everyone.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
I would love to see ten years from now. I
hope to be alive to see ten years. Are we
going to college or people going to college? Is that
a thing? Are parents encouraging their kids to go to college?
Are they going, like, not tell me what you want
to do? Kid, Okay, not the best use of your
money and your time, because I really I remember when
I graduated, I just felt like I had to get
to LA to pursue acting. I had to get out

(50:23):
here because I just knew, like, this is where the
acting that I want to do happens. And I go
college will be by ticket because my family won't freak,
I'll have their permission. It's also like, you know, some
people eighteen are like I don't need my family's permission.
I needed their permission, and so I came out here.
But I'm like, oh, yeah, what does And I'm grateful

(50:43):
for that path. But I look at people. Once I graduated.
I'd meet people out here who same age as me
and are like, yeah, I went to college back home,
or I didn't go at all, and here we are
in the same acting class. It's like I have so
I'm so stressed every night thinking about these student loans.
I want to change my number. But again it worked out.
But I'm like, oh, I saw people, and I'm like,

(51:04):
we're starting for the thing that I want to do
in the same place, only I have mounds and mounds
of college stumer debt behind me. Well you do think
you'll encourage your daughter to go to college or how
do you feel about her pursuing the arts?

Speaker 1 (51:20):
Again, I don't, I don't.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
Know, Okay, I love that.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
Yeah, it's and this is very new for me. I
used to I used to believe like this is the path,
this is where you knew were we talking. I think
probably like maybe five years okay, how old daughter five?
As soon as you get because I I someone told
me to work your ship out as much as you

(51:46):
can before you have a kid, meaning like in turn,
like any thing like childhood stuff that you dealt with
that you haven't kind of uh faced and or at
least just worked through, and because it'll be passed down
to your kid, like even if you don't mean to,
you don't want to, it just will because that's just

(52:08):
the energy that's going to pass through. So it's like
trying to figure out what this energy is. And we
talked about we're talking about luck, believing luck and I
you know, whatever that definition because there's so many different variations.
I guess because when people when we think about luck,
I think about it as just there's things that are

(52:29):
happening in the world that you can't control. That's really
what And then yeah, and if that desire that you
have internally meets up with the outside world that you
can control, it could be luck, or it could be
just destiny, or it could be whatever it is you
want to call it. But I've kind of taken that philosophy, like,
I'm trying to have the desires of just like you know,

(52:50):
making sure that I am fulfilled, she is fulfilled, my
family's fulfilled, and the outside world hopefully will meet that.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Yeah, that's really I think that's lovely. I think it's lovely.
I tend to admire and this is perhaps counterintuitive, but
I tend to admire leaders who are like, I don't know,
this is sort of what I think. But also I'm
telling you that I don't know. This is where I'm
at right now. Yeah, but but I used to be
like a leader, a parent. They have the answers and

(53:19):
I want you to tell me, and like, I'm going
to go, okay, great. And the older you get yourself
and the more you explore the world to yourself and
your own curiosities, you're like, oh, I don't know, and
they don't know, and and I think it's such.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
A no one knows what they're doing. I know what
I'm doing something I know.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Sorry, guys, no one knows that everyone's throwing spaghetti at
the wall. We're playing it by ear. But I'm like,
I trust the people more who go, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
I do.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
I tend to trust people that are like, I don't know,
I don't know, and I go, oh, that's a leader.
I think that. I think here's not so hot. Take
I go. Anytime someone expresses that uncertainty, I go, that's
a true sign of confidence to me, because I'm like,
I think that's so vulnerable to be like I don't know. Okay,
Harry as my dad for today, I do have to

(54:07):
ask You're like, we're friends, No, we're you're my dad.
I have to ask you for a piece of advice
that I feel like a father figure would give me
because I have my mom to ask this advice. I
have my friends, but I don't have a father figure
necessarily to ask, or a dad to ask. So I'm
going to ask you for a piece of advice. If
that's okay. I'm sitting dad down and saying, are you free?

(54:28):
I would love to talk to you about something. Yes, okay,
thank you? So Dating dating is hard, right, What is
a red flag? I should look for something really like sneaky?
I'm your daughter, remember, okay, you're vulnerable, little girl. I

(54:51):
hate to make you exactly, I'm your vulnerable little girl.
I'm dating guys, are taking me on dates. I'm seeing
the sights. What what is something that I should beware
of when dating? A red flag? That helped me out?

Speaker 1 (55:12):
Where are his eyes when he's talking to you?

Speaker 2 (55:15):
Oh? Okay, okay, and they should be looking at my eyes?

Speaker 1 (55:20):
Right?

Speaker 2 (55:22):
Yes, okay, this is new Okay, all right, the first one. Okay, okay.
It's not something that the gossip, you know, it's not.
It's not dogma like that. This is because some people
are nervous. You know, you'll you'll sense that. It's like,
it's not But I think that is a big red.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
Flag that you're going to see. It is like, well,
why why go any further in this conversation? You're not
even interested. But at the same time, that's not the
only thing. I think. There's so many things.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
So many red There's lots of red flags.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
There's a lot of red. There's also a lot of
green what was it green flags?

Speaker 2 (55:59):
Maybe because I mean, I don't know if it's a
traffic flags from war flag, I give that. I want
I want peace and I am always waving what is
the what is the maybe orange orange? And the like
what's the vest? The vest orange?

Speaker 1 (56:17):
Orange orange? It's a good thing. Like orange comes like
slowly slowly, but you can come eventually, you can. Let's
see if that red flag?

Speaker 2 (56:27):
Okay, what's what? What's what's a big orange flag?

Speaker 1 (56:30):
Then I think what what's important to you? I think
we always think like all these signs, because it's different
from when you say this flag and you know somethingle
might be cool with it. Yeah, I just think, like
what are your values and your morals and that what
is important to you as opposed to what your friends?
Your friends, I think it's important because they look at

(56:53):
me like what you don't see right? So obviously I
think it's it's more so than just the guy or
the girl like in fun of you. It's looking at Okay,
how are your friends? Are they going to be your
support system? And saying and seeing those red flags help
you and you got to listen to it, okay, but
also your desires of just what you love gut, but

(57:13):
you know the gut can be the gut can be tricky.
I have I B S. I have I B S.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
Yeah, I have I B S and so it can
be hard to trust. But but but I do believe
in trusting the gun. But you know, there's a lot
of there's a lot of trickery out here. You haven't
been in the dating world, have you have it? It's
a nasty game out there. It's getting it's getting bad.
It's danger.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
You know what I try and I try and watch
a lot of like people talk about it Instagram crazy,
it is crazy. But you know, I also think, what
kind of lifestyle do you want? Okay, okay, it's like
it is it? I don't know. Do you want to
go out all the time, which you're fine, or do

(57:57):
you want to are you more like I want to
chill yes, more of homebody?

Speaker 2 (58:00):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (58:02):
And those are going to bring two different things. Someone
can offer you to be able to go out and
travel a lot, which is wonderful. You should live, you know,
and then but you should also know the red flags
like how long is this gonna last? Yeah, okay, it
lasts a while? Or am I I know what I
want and this is gonna last as much? And so
I'm fine with it.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
There are people who like to go out and like,
do you have friends who are still like I'm in
these streets? Yea, and what do you think of them? Honestly,
go off king, I'm trying to I don't know the
answer to, like, what is the purpose of life? Like
to go down that because we live in a big city.

(58:41):
We live in a city where there's a lot of
things to do, a lot of things that might bring
you joy, which in turn will bring you sadness and it's.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
A valley crash. So but then there's people who's just like, no,
I like this, okay, I'm into this, and you really
I who am I to say like you shouldn't?

Speaker 2 (59:02):
And you really believe them when they're saying that. You're like,
I'm looking at my friend and my friend truly since we.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
Ever asked, and maybe I haven't. It's like, are you lonely?

Speaker 2 (59:11):
Yeah, that's my curiosity I do.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
I was like, are you lonely? And some people are like, no,
I get to do whatever I want, whenever I want.
And I was like, I see some joy in that,
because there's moments where I'm like, I just want to
do this.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
Grass is always greener though, right.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
But there's moments where I'm just this is nice to
here with people and laughing in our pajamas. Yeah, you know,
so I see that side and and I understand the
other side, like, because I think at the end of
the day, it's things that have happened in your life
that then allow you to enjoy the full spectrum of
what life has to offer, because it's scary if something

(59:49):
happened to you that you might not even realize that
it happened to you, it can be a scary place
to kind of venture into. Again. Yeah, so I completely
stand there with breakups. I've had my heartbroken, you know,
plenty of times, and I get it. It is hard, horrible.
So you find that someone, you know, I'm very fortunate,

(01:00:10):
someone who just like just dropped my lap and then
I didn't expect it to happen and became, you know,
mother of my child and we're happy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
Yes, And you have a book and like, I'm just
in Ian know, it sounds truly so so lovely, and
so are you also suggesting to me Dad that it
happens because people say it happens when you're at least
expecting and you're really not looking for are you a
believer in that now?

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
I am a believer once you've done the work on
your on yourself as much as much as you can.
Whatever that means, you know, for you, because I speak
that just for myself. Like even halfway into my relationship
with Shelby, it was just like, well, why am I
getting like why is this bothering me? Why am I
like triggered from that response? And I think those are

(01:01:01):
those are things you have to figure out. Yeah, to
the point where like if you cannot have anything when
your reaction is the most powerful tool, I think, because
if you're able to to control your reactions or understand
what that yeah, what not allowing those something that someone
does to you to react in a way that they

(01:01:22):
would want so you have full complete control, I think
that's one of the most powerful things you can have, right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
And that's I think a reflection of a level of
self awareness too, to be able to be like, Okay,
I know I want to respond this way, but I'm
going to pause. I'm going to pause, And that might
be the reaction I might have had if I didn't
have the wherewithal to pause, But I go, Okay, how
do I want to show up right now right something
like that, Dad, I'm trying my best.

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
You're doing great.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
I just needed to hear that step right into the role.
It's kind of crazy, Harry. It has been incredible talking
to you, so wonderful. We're friends.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Girls don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
I hope you're dad friend. Maybe that's the podcast name. No,
we've got a podcast name. This has been thanks Dad.
I want to say again Harry and his wife Shelby,
who I would love to meet. Sounds fantastic and maybe
is my other mom. Now have a book coming out
named Marty Dares to Dance. Guys, get Harry my dad
friend's book. Thank you so so much for this. Thank you,

(01:02:26):
thank you. Thanks Dad is a Headgum podcast created and
hosted by me Ago Wodhem. The show is produced and
edited by Anita Flores and engineered by Anita Flores and
Anya Kanevskaya, with executive producer Emma Foley. Katie Moose is
our VP of Content at Headgum. Special thanks to Jason

(01:02:46):
Atheni for our show Arn't and Feris Manshi for our
theme song. For more podcasts by Headgum, visit headgum dot
com or wherever you listen to your favorite shows, leave
us a review on Apple Podcasts, and maybe, just maybe
we'll read it on a future episode.