Paul Scheer

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is a headgum podcast. Please welcome my dad for
the day, Paul Sheer.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
I am thrilled to be here. I'm wearing a cardigan,
I have a pipe. Is that what I'm supposed to
be looking like at the day?

Speaker 3 (00:21):
Fix it?

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Come dad, Paul. It's so wonderful to see you.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
I love anytime I get to hang out with you,
talk to you. I'm going to tell you one thing.
In my time of being in uh in La, I've
had two of the most atrocious moments for myself, and
I consider my first meeting with you to be one
of them, where I was like an hour late. I've
never done that before, and I think about that all

(00:48):
the time and I feel so terrible about it. It
was yet it was a It was a crazy yeah, Paul.
I have to say this.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
I am like you in that if I were an
hour late to meet someone the first time I was
meeting them, I never stop thinking about it till the
day I die. Here's the crazy thing. Yeah, I don't
remember you being late. So if you are Redemption, because
I love it, I literally do not remember you being late.
I only remember you being incredibly helpful to me taking

(01:16):
this show out so I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
I don't even know what you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
All right, good, I will take It was just like
the first time we met, and I think I just
it was one of those times where I was like
all the way in the valley and I was gonna
come and meet you, and I just said and whatever
it was, it was like okay, I'll be ten minutes,
like okay, twenty and it kept on growing, growing, growing,
and I was like, oh no, and like I get
those sweats where I'm like, you know, like im and
I always think about, like there's two times. It was
meeting with you and meeting with the producer of all

(01:43):
the Fast and Furious movies, years before those became bigger.
It was like when I was first out in Hollywood,
my agent called me. He's like, are you on your way?
I was like I am, I am.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
Were you stick at traffic? You were stuck in traffic?
Were you really?

Speaker 3 (01:55):
Because people say they're stuck in traffic all the time, yes,
And it's like there's not traffic. I'm looking on Google
Maps right now, I've got your address in to where
we're from in the map, and I'm seeing that it
is a clear path.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
No breadlines.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
Well, and that's the thing. It's like there are and
that's why. Look ten minutes, like fifteen minutes, like that's
in the you know, look not great, but it's in
the ballpark. That's like I lied about traffic an hour
late something catastrophic is because that is like that's like
rock level lateness or vin Diesel. Like it's like, my
life is too complicated for me to abide by time.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
I can't. Yes, the time has to bend to me. Frankly.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
I read this article back in like twenty sixteen that
was like, if you're late, it's because you don't respect
people's time.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
And that's just it. Don't make any excuse.

Speaker 3 (02:43):
There's no excuse at the end of the day when
you simplify it, crystallize it. The root of it is
you do not respect people's time. You think your time
is more important than others. And I'm like, god, damn,
a tough.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Thing when you're a little bit late all the time, Like,
oh God, that's true, I guess I need it.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Really kicked me in the ass. But here's the thing.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
I'm still late sometime and I think it's important to
show grace. And I literally did not remember you being late,
But now that you say all of this, you're kind
of jogging my memory. I remember sitting there at a
table for one and the server comes over and goes,
are you sure the other guest is joining? And I go,
I promise, I promise he'll be here. Okay, but before
we get into all of this, I just need to

(03:21):
say I'm so happy you're here, but I have to
introduce myself. I have to intro you. No cold open,
cold open, sort of like the show I'm on. Okay, Hi,
Hi guys. Hello, I'm Ango Odom and welcome to Thanks Dad.
I was raised by a single mom and I don't
have a relationship with my dad. And guess what, I'm
never going to have a relationship with him because he's dead.

(03:42):
Uh oh, yeah, he died.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
False. I know, I do know some of this, but
you didn't know he died news to you.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
News to me, but I did find out within a
couple of months. Anyway, he's gone and I'm not going
to have a relationship with him. So I'm sitting down
with father figures who are old enough to be my
dad no offense, Paul, or who are just dads themselves,
or who have just big Dad energy. I'm going to

(04:13):
reclaim BDE and say it should be called big Dad energy.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
By the way, I do want to call out if
I was your father, I would have been comically young,
like I like I am, I'm not old. You're not old.
You're not old, but I'm not that old.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
You know you're going I'm not old. On, let me
make it clear to I can still.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
I mean, I'm old. I'm in my forties, but I'm
not like I would have been your forties.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah you look damn good.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Oh thank you. I'll take that.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
Wow, I'm thinking I'm like, and you said forties like
I'm in deep in them because.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
I mean I'm past. I mean, yeah, I am.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
To say the number. This is Hollywood. This is Hollywood.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Don't say the number. Don't ever say the number. But
no one google either. Come on, let him be La
Life Style, Colt you exactly, cold, Plunges, skincare, et cetera.
Point is I'm asking people who could be my dad
the questions I've always wanted to ask my dad, who
is now deceased. I don't know, how do I know
if the guy I'm dating is right for me? Or

(05:14):
what do I look for when I'm buying a card.
How can I not get scammed by a car salesman?
Better yet, I don't know how do I tie a tie.
Girls want to wear ties sometimes now.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
Too, I don't know how to tie.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
Okay, well, guys, My next guest, who you've already heard
quite a bit from lots of baggage between the two
of us, is a comedian, actor, filmmaker, and podcaster himself.
You might know him from The League, Black Monday, How
Did This Get Made? Or one of his many other projects.
The man's got a resume out the wazoo. He has

(05:50):
a new memoir out, a New York Times bestseller. Congratulations Dad,
thanks so much.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
Oh yes, it's about dad.

Speaker 3 (05:57):
Stuff there getting into we're getting into and it's called
Joyful Recollections of Trauma. Yes, yes, okay, all right, wonderful.
Please welcome you guys, my dad for the day. Paul Sheer.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
I am so happy to be here, and I know,
let's get into it because we really already yeah, we've
already caught up, So here we go.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
We did.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
We did the whole like, how are you let's grab
lunch la thing that people do and we will never
get lunch you and I you know.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
I mean, look, it's like, here's the thing. I am
a dad, and I don't get to see my friends
that much because my time is spent doing dad things,
especially like on the weekend. Like during the week a
lunch is on the table. But I also have a
limited period of time because when my kids leave the
house to when they come home. I like to, if

(06:45):
I'm not working, have dinner with my kids every night.
Oh very nice, you know, and that's important to me,
and I want to. I mean most of the time.
I like to be able to put them in the
bed too, Like why not. There's only gonna be times
that they want me around, so let me embrace all
that as much as I can. So there's always a
small window, and then work gets in the way and
it's like I have to leave to lunch. I would
like to see these people. But yeah, it's it's hard

(07:05):
to balance.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
I can only imagine I don't have any kids and
going to one too many lunches in a week. I'm
a little bit like, okay, enough enough of we've had
every salad and piece of salmon. It feels we could
possibly have Yeah, and let's talk on the phone. How
do you feel about phone calls?

Speaker 2 (07:21):
By the way, you know what, I'm coming around on
phone calls. Actually, I like a phone call. I do
like a phone call. I don't have many of them,
but yeah, I'm not averse to it. I'm not.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
So when you see a person like if I called you,
Paul cold called you, my name pops up on your screen,
are you sort of like, whoa, what would happen?

Speaker 1 (07:38):
What does she need?

Speaker 2 (07:39):
No? I'm excited because I'm like, oh, if you're calling me,
this'll be interesting on any and any number of levels.
There are certain people that I'm not excited about, Like
I have to be in the right mental state to
take a phone call from my parents, Okay, okay, because
it's not going to be easy. It's not gonna be quick.
It's not like just a check in. If it's my wife,
I'm definitely picking up. Now. Here's the thing that Are

(08:01):
you excited though?

Speaker 1 (08:02):
Are you excited though?

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Oh? I love my wife.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
I love that. Okay.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
Sometimes where I get irritated with my wife on a
phone call is like she's driving home and I'm driving
home and we're maybe going to be at the house
in five minutes, and I'm like, we can hang up now,
we'll see each other at home. We'll be at home,
like you know, like let me get my final like moment,
like you know, because it's.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
See yourself, just a little quiet time to you thoughts.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
Like that's the only time. I'm always like, all right,
I'll talk to you at home. She's like, well, no,
I want to talk. I'm like, five minutes, we're going
to see each other, like and then we can do
all of this in minutes.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
You know.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
It's kind.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
I'm sweet though. She still likes you and lants to
talk to you.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
What a dree And by the way, I love doing
that too. And I often call her and June has
something that drives me up the wall. Tell tell since
since we have been together, maybe actually I may have
gotten her on the last year of having a real voicemail.
Her voicemail is always full. You can never leave a mess.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
Do you think is it on purpose? Because mine's ful.
Sometimes it's on purpose. It's on purpose.

Speaker 2 (09:06):
She has filled it to the brim and I was
there when it happened. And she will never check them
or clear them. It's that's it.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Wow, No voicemails.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
Well June though, I mean, June's not here. I gotta
get her on the podcast.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, please do.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
But I'm like, you.

Speaker 3 (09:23):
Know, if I call you and your voicemail is fool,
I'm not even sure the call went through. And so
because sometimes it hasn't. Sometimes I call people, I leave
them a voicemail. They're like, I was sitting right here,
my phone didn't even ring. Or your phone's going straight
to voicemail because you've turned it off and you're on
a plane.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
And you follow rules. Yeah, of course, and so you
don't even know I called. That stresses me out.

Speaker 3 (09:42):
When people tell me mine is full, I'm always like,
oh my goodness, thank you for telling me, and I'll
clear a few. I have voice messages that I've saved
for sentimental reasons, just being like, yeah, it's lovely, and
I'm supposed to transfer them to my computer, but that
feels like a hole to do, so I forget to do.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
That is easier than you think, because you can really
just hit a button now and just goes right into iclod.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
Okay, way to shame me, Okay to shame.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Because I also felt the same way. I'm like, what
am I I want to sit down with these boys
because it's like there's something sweet about I keep this
because it's accessible. And then you're like, well, now it's
just taking up a lot of space, but what am
I going to do with it? And then someone showed
me the button. I'm like, oh, that's all right, that's easier.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
That's okay, So maybe I will just like air drop
them to my phone.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
But you said the thing, No, tell me, tell me
you're never going to check them after you air wherever
you're telling Okay.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
You know what I did?

Speaker 3 (10:26):
One time I had a voiceover audition and I have
a folder on my computer that's like VEO and I
have a folder on my computer, says voicemail. I sent
my agent's assistant all my sentimental no that the shame
I felt when they email me back being like, yeah,

(10:47):
so hey, I don't know how to tell you this.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
This is not the voiceover audition.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
And I had to be like, I don't even know
what you just heard. But I hope to God, yes, spooky,
But I don't really have too many secrets. So it's
not like nose anything juicy. It just feels like I
just like let someone into my heart, is what it feels.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Well, that's I mean, that's the thing. Like a sentimental
voicemail doesn't mean anything to anyone else, but you, right,
it's like you have to know, Oh, that's my so
and so who's calling me about my this and that. Yeah,
it's not like somebody's I want to you know, it's like,
it's not like you're saving that I say that, yeah,

(11:27):
you know, it's like.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
Also imagine the freak who leaves a voice message like that.
But here's the thing. I always say that you can
conceive of anything. Someone on this planet has done it.
There's billions of people.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
So whatever the wildest thing, we gotta we gotta check
in here. Do you remember there was a show I
feel like it was called like Access. It was like
an Access Hollywood show, right, And there was this guy,
very thick mustache and blonde hair. He looked a little
bit like a square. He had this crazy voice. After
I get off this thing his voicemail, I got out,

(12:00):
and so he was at a dinner with this woman.
He's a drunk and he's now he's now, he's reformed himself.
He's he's a sober. But he was like, I'm looking
at you across the table and I just knew lit
you and fuck you, and it's like and they're all
out and they are the funniest, most vulgar, and it's
like he had a dinner like of six couples and

(12:23):
he's sending it to this woman that he has no
relationship with. That He's like, it's like those men who
kill their wives, because I think the nanny's interested in me, right,
like you know, like he's a sending cold call graphic sex. Yes,
oh they are. Some of the funny like truly make
me laugh harder than anything because they're all so fucking.

Speaker 3 (12:46):
Gross, presumably drunk while he's while he's doing it.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
But and the funny part is is like he's like,
excuse me, how to go to the bathroom, then goes
to the bathroom and calls this woman she's at the
table getting these messages.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
I absolutely I hate all of this.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
I'm going to start with he lost me when you
said he was blonde and had a thick mustache, because
I can't even picture the two going together tonight. I can't.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
I don't see those two living together.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
But wait, you said you have to prepare yourself mentally
to get on the phone with your parents. Okay, how
long did it take you to realize, like, hey, I
can't just like pick up a cold call from you
because there are people in my life. Whe I'm like,
I can't pick up a call from you unless again,
I have the space and I'm in the right state
of mind. But it took me so long to figure

(13:33):
that out and then abide by it.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
Well that's the thing, right, Like phone calls are interesting
because they can really turn your day, like if you're
having a good day, like I got an email yesterday
that really turned my day right at the end. And
emails it's like I can avert my eyes from text messages,
like I'm like, oh, I see somebody texting. I'm not
going to look further than that one. I have to

(13:56):
keep my own. It's a mental health check. And with
my parents, I love my parents very very much.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
You have to say that because they might listen.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
May well yeah, I mean they'll find it on something.
But you have to be like, what, I need time.
I need time to be like I gotta sit down.
I got to be in a spot. It's not like
I can't just take it on the run because nothing
is simple. They're never just checking in to say hi. Right,
it's like, you know, it's like, oh, I can't just
quickly take it. So I also know like where I'm
at mentally, Like if I'm in a downward spiral that day,

(14:28):
I'm gonna take a phone call from them, I can't
go further down that rabbit hole. You know.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
Yeah, you know, yeah, you're armored up. Now, what kind
of dad would you say you have?

Speaker 2 (14:38):
I have a dad that's really interesting. I talk about
him a lot in my book, in the sense that
he is a wonderful guy. I would imagine that many
people would say he is very much like me. But
if I was to give any like descriptor to my dad, sure,
I would say that he's a little bit of a chameleon.
Whatever you're into, he'll be into and and it will

(15:01):
kind of change. So it's like, oh, you know, it's
like he knows about everything, or he posits himself to
know about everything because he likes being in that position.
But he's not like anna know it all. Like here's
a great example of my dad. I brought my dad
to Japan. One of the best coolest Hollywood things I
ever got to do was I brought my dad to
one of the night before party and that's something that

(15:24):
happens in LA. The night before the Oscars and the
night before the Emmys. There are these fun quote unquote
casual parties, no industry allowed, no press allowed. It's like
it's a it's a night just for fun, yes, right,
fun whatever that is, Yes, but everyone's dressed up.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
And everyone very I've been to those and it very
much feels like not casual, and it very much feels
like industry.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
It's all industry one.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
And uh So that night, my wife, who can do
all that stuff but also as a woman, and I
think she's like, do I want to put all this
in it into like getting all ready to go off
for an hour and you know, thirty minutes and then
go like you know, She's like, if if we're doing
like three things, yea, I'll go do it. But I'm not
gonna fucking you know. So she's like, I don't want
to go, and I'm like, I'll bring my dad. Brought
my dad who was out here visiting. We had the

(16:14):
best night. He met Chadwick Boseman, met Michael Keaton, and
it was but that that was where it was kind
of fun because I could kind of introduce my dad.
I don't know these people. But I also was like, oh,
it's casual enough where it's like, oh, hey, I just
want to say congratulations, good luck tomorrow. This is my dad,
and everyone wants to meet. Dad's like that's the other
you know. It's like he's not an agent, he's not

(16:35):
you know. It's like, oh, it's a dad and everyone
feels that and it's great.

Speaker 3 (16:38):
Absolutely, So I brought him as a prop and so
and that's fine. I feel at some point babies are
a prop as well.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
Babies. So my dad is really enjoying this party because
around the party in all four corners are these like
gifting stations, and they're like and it's the stuff that
I don't go do and probably you don't go to.
It's like Delta air Lines or play like trivia roulette
with Travago whatever.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
So my dad's like, oh, I want to go and
do this like paper airplane competition. And I'm like, okay,
go do that. I'm gonna talk to my friends. And
he goes over and does He's like you could come over,
come over, yeah, and he's like throw paper airplane. I'm like, Dad,
I'm like, I'm like, I don't need to do it.
You throw one. My dad threw one, and he got
one hundred dollars off a ticket to anywhere in the
United States. It's like, oh my gosh, I want it.
I'm like great, and then like you do it, you
do it. I'm like no, no, no, and then the

(17:24):
woman behind the couch like, you do it.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
Do it.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
I threw it. I got round trip to Japan, and
and I was like, oh my gosh. It was my
dad's like seventieth birthday coming up, and we're going to
go to Japan together. We go to Japan, and I
tried to do it right. I'm like, really, I got
a tour guide. I'm trying to plan a great trip.
Like I don't get to go on a trip with
my dad like this, you know, since I was a kid,

(17:47):
and I wanted to pay him back for all the
beautiful things he's over made. Right, Okay, So the first
day out of the tour guide, I'm sorry, this is
a very long time.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
No, I don't be sorry.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
I'm in.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
I'm so, I'm fully in. Let's go.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
So my we go out with this tour guide. I
can see my dad's like a little bit itchy, like
I don't know what it is, but this tour guy's like,
oh and this is this thing, and she's described she's lovely,
like a wonderful woman who's just like the perfect tour guide.
I love her a lot.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, And are you still in touch with her?

Speaker 2 (18:13):
I am Sunny Day is Sunny Day? Is Sunny Days
in Tokyo? Is her Instagram?

Speaker 1 (18:18):
Ig?

Speaker 2 (18:18):
Do you ever go to Tokyo? Go check her out?
She's awesome. So we'll text every now and then, like
she'll see some things that I'm in and she'd be like,
oh my gosh, I saw you or incredible. I always
send my friends to go with her. But when we're leaving,
my dad says to me, oh, or where are we
going tomorrow? I'm like, don't worry about it, No, where
are we going? Where we're going? And I'm like, well,
on the itinery it's it's X, Y and Z and

(18:40):
he's like, okay, okay, okay. So the next time I
get up and I see my dad like on his kindle,
but it's like it's like five in the morning. I'm like,
what are you doing now? He's like, I'm reading. I'm
reading and I go, what are you reading? It's a
good I'm just reading. He's being very like weird about it. Yeah,
and I go okay. And so we go out with
this woman and I realize she starts taking us on

(19:02):
a tour and she's like this this was, you know,
a barricading wall by emperor. My Dad's like here you go,
and she's like yes, and he's like a study he studied, right,
and so then and then she's like, he's like these
are these are jim bossom plants. There are as plant
and she's like, oh, Bill, how do you know. He's like, oh,
you know, I know a couple of things. And I
realized he was reading up on the next day stuff. Wow,

(19:24):
you like out do not even out do her, but
to have like to be in conversation. So it's like
it's kind of cute, Like he wasn't saying you're wrong,
He just like but whenever she would ask a question,
she would have the answer right.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Right, Okay.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
So I went on a tour of a mosque in
Marrakech and there was a young man I'm going to
say like early twenties who was sort of doing the
same thing with the tour guide and I was like,
I don't care. That's fine, he's having a good time.
But I was like, why do you I feel like
you are actively trying to impress the tour guide. Why
does it matter. I just want to soak up the

(19:59):
inform and even if I do know the answer to
a thing, the tour guide want is not asking. But
I'm like, let the tour guide do the tour and
then sometimes they quiz you.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
But like, what, well, here's the thing like when I'm
on with the tour guide, what I will do if
I if I feel it come on, is I will
ask a question that I feel like I try to
set them up to score. Like that's that's like my
because I'm like, oh, this is proping, yes, And I'm like,
this is hard. I know you're like on a boat
tour doing Chicago architecture and I'm like, get that tour.

(20:29):
Oh my gosh, I just did it with all my friends.
We all were in Chicago, you know. And I'm like,
and so I'll do shit like that, like I'll be like,
I'll throw myself out there, i will laugh at the jokes.
I will like I'm giving back because I also know
it's like looking at the blank faces. It's just not fun.
It's not a good thing. I'm like, I want to like,
I want to feel like I'm here with you, I'm

(20:50):
giving you something.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
You.

Speaker 3 (20:51):
Yeah, you're trying to be like, listen, we're invested. I'm
excited to be here. We're in an exchange. This isn't
going to feel like another mundane tour for you. Let's
try to make Yeah, you think about the tour guy.
Do you think that's your dad's instinct though, because when
you're like, I want to sort of take care of
the person, do you think your dad's instinct is like, again,
make them feel like we're in conversation, make this tour
a little more exciting for them, or is it to

(21:11):
be impressive.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
I think that my my dad is a wonderful guy
who you know, like the love languages, right, I think
his love language is to be in service, right, So okay, Yeah,
so I think like like having information, being in front
of it is like his love language. So it's like,
I am he doesn't know how to just be like,
let me take care of you.

Speaker 3 (21:33):
You know.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
He wants to be like I got it, I got it,
I got it, I'll figure it I'll figure it out.
You know, it's like it's a it's cute. I just
seen him like change his opinions about things right, like
you know, to suit where he is at. And but
I think it's a cute thing because I think it's
about connect where it's like I want you to feel
like I like the same things as you like. It's like,
you know, like it's there's plusses and negative. You know

(21:55):
you don't need to do it, but yeah, do.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
You ever call him out on that when you're seeing
him change his mind? Or did you used to call
him out?

Speaker 1 (22:00):
Or where are you out?

Speaker 2 (22:01):
I just let him live because you know, it's like
like I called him out in the Japan thing because
I was like this.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
Is stupid, Like what real time did you call him out?
Or after the fast? Oh?

Speaker 2 (22:10):
When I realized, I mean I'm not in front of her,
like I let him have his moment and then I
was like, what are you doing just about you know,
I'm like I just want to know. I just want
to know he kept on going one do go. Well,
that's why we hired her because.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
She don't tell you. Yeah, she's gonna she's gonna tell us.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
She is the book. That's we got the book, right.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
He woke up to study for this like this was
a test. Yeah, your time in Japan was hinging on
knowing this information.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
No, yeah, so that you know. So that's you know,
I think he just likes that that kind of thing.
Like I once asked him, my dad's retired now, and
I said to him, I was like, well, you know,
maybe I want you to come out to La a
little bit more. You know, I got you got grand
kids out of here. I was like, maybe you could
come out here for like two or three months, you know,
and then you go back to New York or you
could go wherever, you know, but it would be fun
to have you like around, so it's not just like

(22:58):
a weekend or a couple of days. And he goes, well,
you know, I got to make the peanut butter and
jelly sandwiches for the church soup kitchen. And I'm like, right, right,
I said, but your grandkids, you can take a couple
of months off from that because it's making sandwiches for
super kitchen, right, And he's like, you know they need
me there. I'm like, you don't even have an official
job title your soup kitchen you're retired. Why are he's volunteering? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (23:22):
Right, okay.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
And by the way, lovely and said, you want to
work out a super kitchen out here, I'll get you
a soup kitchen out here. We'll do it. No, no, no,
they just need it. They need to help.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
I'm like, okay, okay, yeah, his super kitchen. He's reliable,
he sounds reliable.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
He wants to be there and do it.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
Now. I'm curious. So you said he's in New York
right now? Is this like New York City upstate?

Speaker 2 (23:56):
No, he's on He's on Long Island, Yeah, which is
right outside of New York and.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
That's where you grew up.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yes, was this annoying for you when you were growing up,
because I'm guessing he's been doing this for some time now.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
Because where his boyfriend Chameleon Thing came in to play.
Was like he was the coolest dad ever. Like I
like like I was like, I'm into deaf comedy jam
and my dad's like I'm into deaf comedy jam. And
my dad took me and all my friends to go
see Deaf comedy jam at like the Westbury Music Fair

(24:29):
and like we went to go see like George Carlin,
and we saw Martin Lawrence at Radio City Music Hall,
like we were. My dad was like, oh what you're into?
I'm into And I was like, this is the coolest
dad ever because where he's gonna do it? And like
and only now do I look back, I'm like, oh
that my dad must have been in for a shot.
And we went to go see Martin Lawrence and Martin
Lawrence like Martin Lawrence on the You So Crazy Tour,

(24:52):
Like must have been like, oh, wow, Martin's talking about
some stuff. You know, it's like easy.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
How old were you guys, by the way, roughly.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
I was probably like at that time, like twelve or thirteen,
you know, like you know, I'm like, I like Martin. Yeah,
I don't know who stand Up is.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
You know.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
It's like so but my dad, like my dad would like,
let me listen to Eddie Murphy tapes in the car.
My dad would let me be like like it was
just like my dad likes comedy. He would tape SNL
and he would cut out dirty parts and movies so
I could watch R rated movies, you know, like he
was you know, so that was great And I see
him do that with his grandkids too, Like he just like,
get whatever you're into, I'm into and you. And because

(25:29):
of that, I think what I do is I now,
as an adult, I see that he doesn't really know
that much stuff. But like as a kid, I was like, oh,
he knows a lot about Martin, but he you know,
he like he knows a little bit. But we would
like go see basketball and comedy. Yeah, and and go
see theater shows in New York City, like because my
dad lives in Queens when I was a kid, so anyway, but.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
That was it. Yeah, when you say it was cutting
out dirty stuff from you, but he took you to
see Martin Lawrence. Was he tweaking when Martin was going
there and saying some stuff in Frennie while you're like
twelve thirteen years.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
The dirty stuff was new to so language. Never like
I have I have tapes or I have VHS tapes
of Beverly Hills Cop that cut out both strip club
scenes in both movies and also like his friend getting
shot in the head. So like when I saw Beverly
Hills Cop for the first time, as like a person
that didn't have the edited versions, like, holy shit, there's
more of a movie here, it was like a first

(26:19):
act was missing and you know, okay, and like a
pivotal plot point of both those.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
So for him, dirty stuff is like nudity and cursing, right,
And my dad was not a curse man, Like he
didn't curse, you know.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
And I think anything that was like my dad was
the only thing that we would hit a little bit of,
like friction on was when And this is such a
New York specific So I apologize when we were driving
because I would work a lot at his pharmacy, uh,
you know work. He would bring me to work and
I would sit there and he wanted to listen to

(26:54):
don Imus, who was like a shock jock DJ, and
I want to listen to Howard Stern and he's like, no,
oh no, Howard Stern. Howard Stern was like pornographic.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, yeah, okay, I understand. Now, would you say, like your.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
Dad though he was like a chameleon, knew who he was,
don Imus, this is a place where he would go, No,
I'm going, don Imus, and you can have Howard Stern
or you can't have Howard Stern.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
But it was like, no, I'm this is something I
like anything else.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
I don't know if my dad like fully knows who
he is or you know what it is, is comfortable
enough to share it. And one of the things I'm
always saying to him is like, I'm like, I'm your son,
I love you, like I don't care, tell me whatever
you want, like my dad, like my dad will never
like this is like a thing that happened all throughout

(27:40):
my childhood. My dad would never tell me who he
voted for. Okay, I labeled him as a Democrat. I
was like, oh, you're a Democrat like that. I don't
know why because I'm a Democrat right or like or
I thought I was right right exactly. And then like
when when Trump was running like the I was like, well,

(28:02):
he's not gonna have a vote for Trump is like
this guy's a maniac. And then he sent me something.
It was like a something and it was like on
the bottom it was but it was like, I'm trying
to think of what it was. He posted on his
Facebook page the thing that's kind of like community is life,
community is friendship, community is this. And I looked at

(28:22):
I was like, I was weird he's posting that. But
I was like then I looked at the bottom. I
was like paid for by Donald Trump. And I was like,
I was like, hey, Dad, you gotta take that down.
I was like, that's like a Donald Trump ad. Did
you know that? And he's like, oh, oh, I didn't know.
And I was like, uh, I was like okay. And
then I called my stepsister and I was like, are
they voting for Trump? And she was like I think.
And then it was confirmed by my youngest her son,

(28:45):
and he was like yeah, we were, you know. And
then it caused a big rift between everybody. But he
won't like it, like he's not proud about it like
he was. He's not going to be like like I
would be like, hey Dad, you can't vote for Donald Trump.
You bet you know. He's like ok yeah, yea, ye yeah, yeah, yeah, yea,
you know.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
But it's like, you know, the only thing.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
I know that my dad has a very strong opinion
about is abortion and.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
Take no, no, no, okay. He's one of those guys
that wants to control the ladies.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yes, and and but because he's a very Catholic, okay, right, and.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
We're talking, goes to church every Sunday, obviously, goes to
the soup kitchen.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
They need him at the soup kitchen. But like we're
talking every Sunday.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
Okay, we're talking every day, oh w everyday every weekday day, Monday.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
I brought yeah, I brought them to London. They went
to church. It was Easter weekend. They went to church
four times on vacation.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Wait how long were you there?

Speaker 2 (29:50):
A week? And that was like we're missing some church,
Like so you know, look and look, there's always gonna
be people like jd Vance, real trash bag human about
controlling women's bodies. I think my dad's like, no, God
doesn't want it. Like it's like it's not like an opinion.
It's like God has said it, and I am following

(30:10):
God right, which I'm not here to you know whatever.
I'm not commenting, I don't, but I will say this,
that was not something that I think he was fully
on board with until he got married to his wife,
who was also going to church every day. My dad
wasn't going to church every day until he got married again.

Speaker 1 (30:30):
Okay, okay, So when did your parents separate or split up?

Speaker 2 (30:34):
When I was three years old? Okay, and I again, like,
so this is crazy story about my parents breaking up.
Was they got divorced when I was three, but they
pretended to be married until I was five. Oh yeah,
so my dad and mom at first, I would sleep
in separate bedrooms and I one morning, I remember one night,

(30:56):
I woke up in the middle of the night and
you know, you kind of run to your parents room,
or maybe you don't. Yeah, right, So I was like
running to the parents room and I walked by and
I saw my dad in the guest room bed as
I was going, and I was like huh. And I
said to my mom, was like, why is he in there?
My Mom's like, oh, the bed's broken. Then two of
us can't sleep on the same bed. Perfect analogy for

(31:17):
divorce too.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
Yeah, And I was like, oh, all right.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
And I'm like, okay, I got it. And I didn't
really like, like, you know, when you're a kid, like
you don't you don't have the wherewithal to understand why
it's weird, but you know it's weird, right. I can't
put my finger on it.

Speaker 3 (31:30):
Like my mom told me that if I didn't brush
my teeth at night, aunts would crawl around in my mouth,
and I was like, that doesn't I feel like if
I woke I would know, ants were in my mouth
in the middle of the night. But yeah, you can't
quite place, you know, what's wrong?

Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yeah, And then and then what I've found out, and
like the very long story short is like then my
dad started. My dad got his own place, and then
he would leave after I went to bed, and then
get there early in the morning before I got up.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
Oh, so he wasn't even just sleeping in a different room.
He was actually sleeping somewhere else and then coming and
taking a little cat nap at five am.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
So it became so and and so then they got
divorced for real, and then you know, and life goes on.
My dad didn't get remarried until actually until I met June.
So we're probably saying like two thousand and four, so
we're you know, like, you know, so it was it
was like thirty years my dad wasn't married or anything.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Do you think he was just a playboy in that
time or no?

Speaker 2 (32:29):
No, I think that my dad was making time for me,
like I want to be a dad, I want to
be like I think he understood his boyfriend chameleon status
enough that he was like, I need to be all
in as a dad. Okay, and if I'm here, like
he said to me at one point, which I think
is sometimes it's also like I don't know what's bullshit

(32:50):
or what's not, because sometimes we make up stories to
make ourselves look a little bit more heroic. But he's like,
you know, I knew that I never wanted to miss
anything that you did. And there was a thought that
if I was in a relationship, I would miss that show.
I would couldn't be with you on that weekend. I
wanted to have that flexibility, and you know, honestly, I
feel that way. I would feel that way about my

(33:11):
kids too. I want to be until they don't need me.
If I was, if I was in that situation, I
want to be one hundred percent available for my kids.
I just want to be. I don't want to not
be there.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
Yeah. So like he was like, you are now married,
you're taken care of someone, you have a family. I'm
ready to know.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
It was like now, I was like, you know, almost thirty,
I was living in La you know. Yeah, Like it
was like, you know, it was a different it was
a different set of circumstances, right, And it.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Was interesting that you were married. It was like not
until I got married.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
Well yeah, like, well, it's like I got married to
June after I got married to June. I think June
and I were dating in about two thousand and five.
I think my dad got married in two thousand and five,
two thousand and six. Oka, I remember June went to
the wedding with me and June I got married in
two thousand and nine. So so yeah, so it was
like I met her when I was dating June. So

(34:00):
it really was and what and look, I had long
term relationships before June too, but I think it was
at this moment where it was like you're you've left,
and there might have been like also a part of
like loneliness for me, I always I mean, and that's
the other thing too, is like I want to be
clear on this, like I always wanted my dad to
be married. I wanted my dad to have somebody, you know,
Like the thought of having my dad alone was hard

(34:23):
for me to deal with, like, oh, he doesn't have anybody,
Like he's going back. Like when he would drop me
off of my house, I would get really sad, like,
oh he's going back to be alone. Yeah, I look
at that now.

Speaker 3 (34:36):
Grass is always greeted that's what I keeps saying to me.
Everyone's like grass is always greener. But okay, you said
he didn't want to miss anything. At least that's what
he tells you. Yeah, did he miss anything? Did he
miss any of your shows? Did he miss anything that
you really wanted him to be?

Speaker 2 (34:47):
I mean, my dad was such a staple at UCB Theater.
It was third row against the Wall. My dad saw
me do a show where I was a robot. He
saw me rip off people's dicks in a bloody show
called Kilgore, like he saw everything.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
So mister Sheher was always a camp at UCB.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
And people love my dad and he was always like, hey,
oh my gosh, guys, that dildo circus I was hilarious,
you know, like you know, he says like.

Speaker 3 (35:14):
Okay, but he's watching you do dil do circus. But
he's super caf And now that you're doing your thing
in your.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
Passion, I could never I look back on it now
and go, oh wow, that stuff must like, I mean,
we're doing stuff that was not anti religion, but like
you know, I did a show called George Bushes a
Motherfucker that Adam McKay co wrote and co directed. So
it's like that was the show George and the other
show I did was like getting high with George w

(35:40):
Like it was like me, like, these are politically based
shows that we were doing at uc B that he
was coming to see multiple times and never ever expressed anything.
And that's why I think I also thought, oh, he's
not waiting for Trump. He clearly is, like he gets it.
And George Bush is the motherfucker and you know, like
you know, he's on this page. And that's not to
say that like he didn't vote for I don't know.

(36:03):
He never told me and he won't and I asked
him about it one time. I said, what is it, Like,
why won't you tell me? He's like, well, I just
grew up in a world where that's private. And I go,
but you realize, like, I'm not going to love you
less like you vote for Trump. I don't agree with it.
I don't agree with it, but I also understand the
reason why you're voting for Trump is one issue and

(36:24):
one issue only, and it's abortion. And I'm never going
to convince you otherwise of abortion. Because my dad is
one of those people, like you know, they take out
babies at nine months, I'm like, yeah, it's called labor,
you know, you know, and so, but I can't get
there with him, like I'm not gonna like, I'm not
going to sway him. And I found myself going I
could either have a relationship with my dad where I'm
constantly confrontational and being like, why are you voting for

(36:47):
you know this, why are you voting for this? Get
behind Hillary? Get behind me? Or I could say that
has to be on the side, and I love you
for who you are and that's it because it's like,
you know, like I was like, he'll definitely get to
vote for Biden because Biden's Catholic, right, That's that's straight
down the middle Catholic. Nope, Nope.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
Wow, did it ever get confrontational with you guys? Was
it starting to threaten to get like, oh now we're
going to happen.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
I don't bring it up because it's like it's it's
not it's to me. It's like, and I know we're
supposed to have these conversations with people, but I also
feel like it's my dad is not talk to me,
tell me if I'm wrong on this, because I want
to be I want to be open to fearless.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
I'm not of these things, but I'll try. But tell
me go ahead. You can talk like I.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
And pro choice. I believe that it is.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
It is.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Everybody's body is their own choice, whatever you want to do.
But in the grand scheme of things, if that's what
my dad believes. My dad is pro life. It old,
and he lives in New York, which is ultimately a
blue state, it's not going to really be affecting that
much stuff. He's not a racist. He's not going out there,
you know, guns doing crazy shit. Like like it's like

(37:55):
it's a religious belief that he's got on the side.
I'm like, it's not worth trying to undo years of religion.
It's never gonna happen, right, Like I can have conversations
with him about like you know, we like, you know,
we both write cast they you know, and you had
opinions about that. I guess what I'm saying is he's problematic,

(38:16):
but he's not also problematic in a way. That's like
it Like that's like I.

Speaker 3 (38:20):
Feel like, yeah, what I'm hearing at least is that
you're like, listen, he believes what he believes. He believes
it for religious reasons. His religion is very important to him.
The man goes to church seven days a week, okay,
and so I understand as his son and having seen
him devote himself to his religion in this way, there's
really no way for me to get in there. So

(38:42):
what my actual options are is to let him know
that I don't believe in what he believes in. I
don't agree with it. I'm disappointed he's voting that way.
I also don't expect to change him. And I say
and as opposed to butt because it doesn't I don't
want to negate everything I said before that.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
But it's like, and I know it's really unlikely that I.

Speaker 3 (38:59):
Will be able to change your vote on this one
because you are one track mine here is that?

Speaker 2 (39:05):
Yeah, that and that's and you know, like and then
there was like one moment where he said to me,
this is the most I ever got into it with him. Yeah,
and you go, you know then, because they'll be like,
well they're both the same that you know, all these
politicians are corrupt. I'm like, well that's a that's a
bullshit answer. And I was like and and I go like,
just look at it like this. I was like I
think when you look at the effect that Trump can

(39:26):
have on the queer population, like you know, and he's like, well, no,
he's actually very he's very accepting that. I'm like, here's
a website you can look at that shows how every
policy has been almost aggressively anti gay.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
Yeah, and you know.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
And and he's like, oh, oh, I didn't know that.
I didn't know that. But it's not gonna change vote
because at the end of the day, that doesn't trump
the abortion issue, which is a one issue.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
When they say a single issue voter, that's a very
real thing.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
And I also so think that, at least in my experience,
I am of the mind that something about getting older
and being stuck in your ways and so sure of
yourself causes you to be quite inflexible.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
Yeah, and it is.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
I've said to people that as I age and just
talking to people about their parents, friends, about their parents
and what their experiences are with them and those conversations,
how those conversations go, I say, I want to be
a person who when I'm older, I am flexible enough
to change my mind. So when you say you present
your dad with a website that here are all the
ways that Trump is anti gay and is opposed to

(40:39):
the LGBTQ community, and he goes, oh, I didn't know that,
but he's still going to vote the way votes. I'm like,
my hope is that when I'm that age, that new
information will penetrate my psyche and I am able to
change my mind. That's a real hope I have just
hearing how infrequently that happens.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
Yeah, I think that we are all. You know, There's
somebody said something the other day that really resonated with me,
and it was like our parents and their parents, there's
a very narrow gap between how they were brought up
and how their parents were brought up. But between us
and our parents, it's a giant chasm where what we

(41:19):
are aware of, what we're exposed to, what we live in,
are like it, and so it's actually like a it
is a shocking difference, Like our parents are much more
like their parents than we are like our parents. And
I just think it's like, yeah, I like, and I
think we will be people who are open to things
like you know, look, I think that like when you

(41:42):
there's uncomfortable conversations happening all the time, and I often
try to be like I can't express an opinion publicly
unless I understand it enough. Like there's emotional components to things,
but I'm like, I want to understand it because I
want to get in front of it. But it's like
and and I feel like I I don't want to
make snap judgments. And I hope that stays with me,

(42:03):
Like I don't get too caught in my ways. You know,
you know there's things I get irritated by, but it's like, yeah,
but very rarely are they social or cultural issues. It's
like great, right, right?

Speaker 3 (42:14):
I can I ask just the way you've described your
dad and how great and present of a father he
is and has been, would just given the boyfriend chameleon
thing and the reticence to share with you who he's
voting for and you kind of had to find that
out in your own would you describe your dad as
an honest person? Would you do consider your dad an

(42:34):
honest person?

Speaker 2 (42:36):
I would consider him a loving person who I think
is very concerned about not being loved and give you
the answer that he wants that he thinks you want
to hear, m h and and and then I don't
think that that makes him dishonest because I actually don't
think like I think it's all about weighing in what

(42:59):
situation and who am I talking to, and like it's like,
I want to connect with you so bad that I
want to I want you to like me. I want
you to feel comfortable with me that I'm I don't
know at the end of the day. Oh, my dad
likes X, Y and Z. He's a support he's been
a supporter of me. He loves my kids, he's he's

(43:20):
there for me. All these things are true. But there
are certain things I said him the other day. I said,
I'm your son. I was like, you can talk shit
with me. You can. You can be mad at me.
I was like, I can be mad at you. I
was like, like this is for me. I was like,
I want to have a relationship with you where it's
like we don't have you don't have to pull your punches,

(43:41):
you don't have to be worried about it. But I
think it's hard for HI to do. But I think
he's also trying. I think after I wrote this book,
because I talk about some of this stuff in my
book and he's read it, and he was very supportive,
and it was and you know, and and one of
the things and I'm probably dropping this way too late,
but it's in the book. Is my mom got involved
with a man after she and my dad divorced, who

(44:03):
was incredibly physically abusive, and we lived in a very
abusive home situation. Yeah, and one of my biggest things
with my dad was that he never like got in
there to help take it out.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
And he was aware of it.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
He was aware of it because I would tell him
and you know, and and he actually even got into
a fight when to a physical fight with this man.
The guy kind of attacked him, and so he saw
it at firsthand. And and when I talked to him
about it years later, you know, he would be QUI
didn't know. I thought you were exaggerating, I thought this,
but you were also there. He saw this, like I

(44:40):
think that like his fear of I don't know where that,
you know, I told him. You know, we've had these
conversations I put in the book and I said, I
don't need an apology from you. I don't like Isaac,
but I would love you to figure out why you
did that, because now as a dad, I know that
if I saw that happening, I don't know what I
would do, but I would do something right right, and

(45:02):
and maybe people don't have the tools. So it's it's
a very complex relationship because it's like you can know
that you are loved, you can know that you are supported,
you can know that you are uh in a relationship
where somebody cares about you, but there also are these

(45:22):
things that that are ingrained in them, you know. And
I try very hard as a dad to center my kids,
and and and and the way I kind of think
about it is like you never know what your kids
are thinking, right, So it's sort of like I I
got this great advice from a child psychiatrist early on.

(45:46):
My wife's dad passed away when my my my oldest
son was three years old, and you know, death is
a thing, and you know, and I said, well, how
do we bring up death to him? And she's like,
my rule of thumb is is never lie. Don't tell
your kid you're gonna have advance in your mouth, but
also but don't go, but don't also don't lie, and

(46:08):
be concise. And that has been something that I've really
taken the heart, where I I say, you know, I'll
say something like you know, so and so passed away
and that's the last time we're gonna see him, and
we want to we want to remember him right now.
There's no talk of oh he's in heaven and he's
looking down and there's a thing and he's you know,
it's like we just simple. And so I also find

(46:28):
like when my you know, my kids are scared or
my kids are worried about something, instead of me trying
to make it better for them, I go, what do
you what are you nervous about? Mm hmm. I wait
and I let them tell me what they're afraid of,
because my fear is about what I think they could
be are different. I'm an adult there a kid, and
so yeah, so I I try very much to center them.

(46:49):
I don't always do it right. I'm sure I'm gonna
mess them up on some way too, but I but
I try to be like on their level, be an
ally for them, and and just let them know no
matter what. Like my son made a decision last night
and he didn't want to go back to camp because
he didn't like the way that the camp counselor was
yelling at other kids. Wasn't yelling at him, but he

(47:11):
made it made him feel uncomfortable that this camp councer
was yelling at people, and he's like, I don't want
to go back. Yeah, And I said okay, And I
said to him like he was standing there, and I said,
I just want you to know that I am so
proud of you for having your own knowledge of that
made you uncomfortable. You don't want to be there, and

(47:31):
you felt comfortable enough to share that, and you also
don't want to like, like, I want to applaud that, Yes,
is that paying the asser for me now to figure
out what to do with my kid he's on a camp.
Is that I paid for? Yes, But I want to
applaud that he made a really good decision that was
uncomfortable for him to share with us and articulate.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
And I want to like, you know, it's anyway not
you know, I make a lot of fucking mistakes too,
but I mean that I just tried.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
To of course. I mean.

Speaker 3 (47:56):
My big thing that I've talked about is the moment
you realize, be it a moment or a period in life,
when you realize your parents are just humans who are
trying their best, and even with all the tools I
feel like I have now via therapy and the things
I've read and the developments in psychology that I listened
to on podcasts.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
I'm like, we're all going to fuck up the people
were connected to in some way, shape or form.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
We all got stuff. Yeah, have stuff.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
I mean with your kids.

Speaker 3 (48:22):
When the child psychologist says just be concise and don't lie,
do you worry that they're going to ask you a
bunch of follow up questions? I feel like I was
one of those kids that was like, well, no, explain that,
explain that further. So, like I don't know if you
could be concise with me as a kid.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Well, you know, like, uh, this is another technique that
she taught us, which I thought was good too. Oh
it's a good question. I gotta think about that. We
gotta look at that. Let's let's figure that out. Oh
that's a good question. Oh I don't know, like just
you know, and it's not even it's because it's like
that is a good question. I think it's kind of
like saying like, and if you come back to it
in about an hour, well then we'll go a little

(48:58):
bit different. But if you like, if it just drops.
I think what kids often do when they ask these questions,
are they don't feel satiated by it. It's it's like
it's like you're you're not full right, But if you
give him an answer that doesn't seem wishy washy, it's like,
Grandpa is dead, We're never going to see him again.
We have him in our memories, and today is the
day we're going to say goodbye to him. There's not

(49:19):
that many follow up questions there. But if I start
saying Grandpa's in heaven, he's looking down on us, and
he's he's smiling at you right now, it's like wait, wait,
where is he? How is he there? What's going there?

Speaker 1 (49:28):
Right?

Speaker 2 (49:28):
So you start asking all these things. It's like like
what is dead? Well? Dead? Is he passed away? He
had cancer? And then there's certain things that you like.
And I feel like when you start to polish something,
it gets it gets tricky, it gets you know, so
anyway again, and yes, they do ask follow up questions,
like my kids have like bombed me at dinners, like

(49:50):
in the middle of apropos of nothing. We're talking July fourth,
We're talking like middle of June. He's like it's Santa
Real and oh well, oh interesting, Yeah, what what makes
you ask?

Speaker 3 (50:04):
You know?

Speaker 2 (50:04):
So it's like, yeah, and I'm buying time while I'm asking,
you know, I'm like, oh, that's interesting. I didn't think
about it like that. Yeah, I mean I always knew
it like that. And I play a little bit dumb.
I'm like, I always knew it like this.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
Yeah, yeah, well, Sta Real. I'm like, hold on.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
But if the answer is tell the truth and be concise.
Your kid asked you Santa real, it sounds like you're
supposed to be like, no, well.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
And this is, and this is and that, and that's
the tricky one, because the Santa one is a tricky
one because I think that you very rarely ever hear
a kid going like my parents lied to me about Santa. Yeah.
You know, it's like it's part of the fun of
the myth. But you have to also know when to
rip that band aid off. So my ten year old, yeah,
was on the fence and he was like, Dad, I'm

(50:44):
the only one who believes in my class. I'm beginning
to think that Santa isn't real. Yeah, And in that moment,
I had a choice which was to go I double down.
I make him be the only kid in class who
still believes in Santa, and I create a lie because
he believed me and he trusts me. There I go,
he's not real.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
The other option of also making him look like a
dumb ass in front of his classmates, and then he goes,
my dad set me up to look dom at ten
years old in front of my classmates. Not cool, that
would be that would be a big breach of trust.
Then I think that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
And I think that there's something magical about Santa tooth fairy.
Those are like little things that make childhood fun. Right.
And it's like, and I've seen the parents. We don't
tell kids about Sanda, and we don't do this something. Okay, fine,
Christmas is big in our house. We love Christmas. It's
a nice tradition. It's not something that I'm like, I'm
not making Santa the end all be all of everything.

(51:41):
But it's imagination. It's magic. And I and what I
said to my son when I told him about Santa
was I was like, not real. But here's the thing.
There was somebody who was this man named and I
believe my dad all this research named Nicholas. Who would
There's a poor couplet, he puts some money down their

(52:01):
chimney and this is like a true story, OK. And
I was like and I was like, and that's real
and everyone in this town and you know, I was.
I got so excited by this that they're like, I
want to try to do that for people who are
in need as well. And that keeps on growing and
growing and growing. So I am in a way Santa,
and Mom is in a way Santa, because we're keeping
this tradition going and now you get to come with

(52:23):
us to keep that tradition going.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
Santa is spirit yes, yes, yes, you know.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
And it's like and it's like and it becomes like
I didn't lie to It's like I'm not saying you know,
I'm just like I'm trying to like bring you into
something which is fun. Like it was fun, and it's
like and they wake up in the morning they have
a magical thing and everyone in the class is like
believing it, like at a certain ages, believing in Santa,
and they're excited for Santa, like I want my kid
to have that, Like there's so many shitty things in

(52:49):
the world, like pull off that bandaid when it's the
right time again, right time. You know that nine years old,
he knows that there's no, Santa. Yes, that's that's when
he found out because he did enough to deductive reasoning. Yeah,
and it doesn't make sense. And I decided, like, yes,
I'm following that.

Speaker 3 (53:03):
And if your kid's like fifteen and still believes in Santa, Paul,
do you you're like I would? You would be worried
about that if your kid was fifteen and still believing
in Side.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
If you were if your kid, if my kid was
fifteen and still believing in Santa, I would think it
was weird. I talked to somebody who said that his
sister believed that Santa until sixteen and had a full meltdown.
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
I had a driver's license potentially and believed in Santa.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Okay. John Hodgman also believed and had a meltdown like
it actually does some real destructive stuff.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (53:40):
I don't think I grew up Christian. I don't think
anyone ever mentioned Santa to me. I understood that kids
believed in Santa, and I was never the like, I'm
going to go tell kids he doesn't exist. I don't
think anyone told me he existed or didn't exist. I
need people at school believed, and I just wasn't a
thing to me one way or the other to be
like he's really he's not same with the tooth for

(54:01):
your I don't yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
Yeah, it's like it's just it's sort of like whatever
family you come up in, like, look, we we also
live next to like uh, you know, like a family
who is Jewish and they and their kids are the
same age as our kids, and I could see them
like elf on the shelf, What the fuck is that?
You know? And it's like but but they also keep
it going because it's like, well, our job isn't here
to be like yeah, yeah, you know. It's like everyone's

(54:22):
like it's like everyone's got their own thing, right, and
you just want your kid. I mean the biggest thing
is that that's want my kid to be normal, right,
Like you know, like if everybody's believing in Santa, you
can believe in Santa if you know, you know, like,
but I'm also not going to be like, oh Santa,
you know, here he is and here's a letter.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
You know.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
It's like, you know, I'm just gonna do, you know.
But it's also like part of the fun for me
is like I'm a dad who wanted to make it
fun for him, and he may look back and then
go like you've told me Santa wasn't real like I could.
That could be a mistake in the in the future.

Speaker 3 (54:50):
Who knows right well, who knows what decision I make
here will mess you up? What kind of relationship do
you want to have with your kids? And if you
don't mind, remind finding us how many kids you have?

Speaker 2 (55:02):
Yeah, I have two kids who are currently seven and ten.
They're both boys, and they go to the same school.
My oldest is going into fifth grade and my youngest
is going into second grade. Okay, so that's where we're at.
And you know, for me, what I really want is

(55:24):
to be an ally for my kids whatever they want
to do, however they want to be, however they want
to live. I want to be an ally And being
an ally is different than being a friend, but it's
I think more similar to being a parent, Like I
am there to support you. I want to have a
relationship with you where you can talk to me about

(55:45):
whatever you want. You don't feel it's weird. You feel
like I'm trustworthy. You also feel like you can like
tell me secrets or you can you know, like I want,
I want to create a bond with you, and I
had that certain bond you know, with my with my dad.
I would tell them how people are smoking cigarettes or
you know, like I want them to feel like, hey, look,
I wanted like I'm going to drink tonight, go go drink,

(56:08):
like all right, but let's let me. I'll help you
out or I'll pick you up. Like I want them
to not be afraid of me. But also I don't
know the term, and I'm sorry, I wish it was better,
better verbiage to your bed. It's like, I want them
to be afraid of me, but also not be afraid
of me, like I'm always going to be their parent,
and I want to hold that as a thing, yes,

(56:30):
but I also want them to be able to come
to me with anything and know that I'm not going
to judge them or make them feel bad, or that
I will be like no, you know.

Speaker 3 (56:37):
And that's a respect right part of me when I
what you just describe. Sometimes we have so many words
in the English language. I was just telling my therapists yesterday,
but I'm like, sometimes I can't find the right one
to say what I'm trying to say. And there are
other languages that do have those words. But what you're
describing to me sounds like respect, where it's like I
revere and thus, to some extent, fear this person. It's

(57:02):
a healthy fear, right, like I always going.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
To be your parent. It's like that, and that there
is a there is a status, there's a status there
that will never change. I will always be your dad.
I will always be the person who gave you birth,
like you know so, And there's a responsibility set that
comes with that, right. And we're never going to be equals,
and I'm okay with that. Although we can talk as equals,
you know, we could, but I'm never like, you know,

(57:27):
like I want to be the cool boss. Like I'm
still the fucking boss. But we're gonna, like, you know,
we're gonna have casual Fridays. They're going to bring in
an ice cream truck. All life is gonna be at
the end of the day, though I'm signing your paycheck.
I'm telling you, you know, that's it, you know. And
also I think a part of that is like allowing them,
you know. It's like I think that the parents who
want to be friends or be cool to their kids,
I want my kids to think I'm cool, but I'm

(57:49):
not trying to. I actually don't care if my kids
think I'm cool. I just want them to love me. Yeah, honestly,
that's all I want them to do. What loving and
feel comfortable with me. Yeah, and and and everything will
come to pass.

Speaker 3 (58:01):
Yeah, it's interesting even to hear you go through. Okay,
I think I want I want them to feel this.
I want them to feel this, but also this. It's
it's just simply being a parent is complicated.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
Yeah again, I'm not one. It just sounds like it's
such a complicated thing and endeavor.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
You have years of getting used to it when you
become a parent. I always say that you should never
have a kid unless you're seventy percent ready. You'll never
be one hundred percent ready. If you're a hundred percent ready,
you're insane because you're not acknowledging that a child is
a giant life right, the choice right right, and that
will change everything because you can't.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
Control everything that child does. You simply can't.

Speaker 3 (58:34):
So the notion that you're one hundred percent ready, you're
not one hundred pcent ready because you don't even know
what kind of child you're going to get.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
One hundred percent and and and you are constantly learning.
You're always gonna have a little bit of anxiety because
your child is out in the world doing things at
certain points and going to doctor. There's so many things.
But you get every year, you get a little bit better.
Like when you have a second kid, it was easier
to do. Those first months. I felt so impossible. But
you know, bigger kids, bigger problems with it. Always say, right,

(59:00):
they're more complicated, right, And I just think that it's important.
One of the things I always look to as a parent.
I wish I was more like touchy feely with my parents.
I think sometimes I'm not, and that bums me out.
I don't know why that. Like, they're a little like
not not touchy.

Speaker 3 (59:21):
Feely, but now one of their love language is physical touch, right, yes, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
And So when I was in this movie year one,
Harold Ramis was directing it. Harold Ramis from Ghostbusters and
famous director but also a brilliant writer and actor. He
watching him direct this movie, his son and daughter came
to set. Son daughter, I think the daughter was in college,
a son was going to college. They're older kids, man,

(59:46):
and they were just like hugging up on their dad.
He was hugging up on them and they were so
like it was so loving. And I always look at
that and I go like, wow, when my kids are
that old, to be that connected to them is what
I strive for because I think when I was in
high school it wasn't exactly like that. I think I've
come around to different ways. I think, you know, but

(01:00:07):
it wasn't like that. It was like that for a
long time. But then it like then things get a
little bit more afraid, you know, you know, it's like,
you know, I think some parents will get upset, like
you don't want to hang out with me anymore on
our Saturday night. But yes, I want them to have friends.
They don't want them to spend it all with me.
If they want to spend it with me, I'm happy to.
But I don't want to say like, oh, you're not
spending you know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
Yes, it's a physical touch. Now a love language you're
speaking with your kids is that you are going to
be great.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
Did your dad have that though growing up? Do you
think it's stopped with him or is it? Or or no,
he didn't have not like for him for himself his
own childhood was his friend.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
I don't know, I don't know. You know, it's hard, right,
it's hard to kind of see No, I don't know.
I actually I would say no Oka, they were not
and uh and it's and it's not to say that
he's cold. He'll give a hug, but like you know,
like sometimes I just want like when I see my dad,
I want him to just be like, hey, give me
a hug. And like when he first sees me, and
it's like I am the fourth or fifth fifth person

(01:01:08):
that gets a hug like whenever I got in, you know,
and it's like and I you know, I always say
to him, I'll say, you know, remind I just want
to remind you I'm the only blood here, like you
and me, like they got one son, I'm your son.
Those are your grandkids and and like it's okay, yeah,
like you like, June's not going to be upset if
you hug me first, right, you know, it's like she's

(01:01:30):
not gonna be oh Bill didn't hug me, Like yeah,
you're my dad.

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
Yeah, it's so fascinating and all the I'm your son,
you're my dad, your son, you're my dad. But you
know what, I will sometimes if I walk into a
room where the person I'm closest to, I might hug
them last because it's like, well, you know, I love you,
like I might do that. I might go hug their
three friends first and be like, ah, now you but
I see you all the time and I love you.

(01:01:54):
But it's so that that might be a thing not today,
I could get that too, but yeah, but I understand
the desire for physical touch. Did you guys grow up
in a household where I love you was verbalized?

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Yeah? Maybe, Like it's funny because the way that it
is in my house is like next level. Yeah, and
my grand I really always got it from my grandma
because my grandma really showered me with love. Now, my grandma,
you could ask anybody and they would they would call
it a straight up seaword.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
Most people, really this is your paternal grandmother or oh wow,
really rough stuff?

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
Wow, like rough stuff okay, But but was one of
the most loving people in my childhood. Wow, okay, you know,
so it's weird, right, it's so weird to be like.

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
Would your dad also maybe not because he's Catholic, maybe
not call his mom the sea word? But did he
have a rough relationship.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Well, this is not his mom. This is uh my
mom's mom that people would call that the uh my
dad's mom was loving, but I think pitted her sons
against each other. Oh and you know it, you know like, oh,
well someone SO is doing this, someone so is doing that.
Like my my uncle became a Lutheran and that was.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
A very big deal in our wow, well Protestant.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
Okay, yeah, they're like, oh, how dare how dare you?

Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
Okay, it was like reality TV juicy in the household. Okay, well, Paul,
I'm really, really, really grateful that you spend some time
with me. I do I know I said one more
than I proceeded to ask two more questions.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
But this is well, we're not recording this.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Sorry, We're no, we haven't recorded any of this podcast.
We're not recording any of this.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
None of this is this is all okay.

Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
This is just want Paul here to know this entire
thing has been off the record. Okay, can we trust me.
I wouldn't lie to you, not breach your trust. It's
like telling you Santa Claus is realities not. I wouldn't
do that to you. Okay, I have two more for you.
One is what is something you want to impart to
your children? Just hearing how much you want to shower
them with love, hearing how much you want them to

(01:03:58):
see you as an ally and as their parent not
quite a friend, and just feel supported and seen by you.
What's something like you would really want to impart to
them piece of advice or my number.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
One job is to make sure I am raising good humans,
Humans who are empathetic, humans that are supportive, loving, and
care for their friends, and like that's and give them
every opportunity to succeed. And also yeah, like that really

(01:04:31):
is it? Like I just want them to be like
my job, I mean, I think, especially as a straight
white man, my job is like and I've created two
boys or co created two boys and white boys, like
I want to make sure that they are you know,
that they understand, they understand their place in the world,

(01:04:53):
and how to understand that not everything works this way
to be open to these things. It's like my job
is to make them aware and better of everything so
they can be good allies, good friends, good relationship partners
to whomever they want to be with. Like that's my
only job is to impart on them that I got
to get them out the door as good humans.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
And I'm trying. That's beautiful and refreshing to hear too. Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:05:17):
End every episode of the podcast with a segment where
I ask my dad for the day a piece of
advice that I'd want to ask my dad if you
were still here, right, and so as my dad for
the day, Paul, I want to ask you, how do
I figure out where to invest my money?

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
What's your advice on in.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
Great question? First of all, you got to start saving,
even at the base level, start saving. And then I
am not a person that believes, like, if you are
going to be investing, there are people that devote their
entire hire their job is to invest money, right to

(01:06:04):
do this. If I do that, it is getting one
seventieth of my day. So what I would say to
you is, yeah, you we will find you, okay, by
a very smart person, Okay that will be conservative with
your money because like you know, and and then and
and and we'll get you into something that will do

(01:06:25):
it the right way because there is no I Am
not going to be here and lead you down the
path of destruction. I want you to. I want to
save you money because the stock market. All this sort
of stuff is always gambling at a level. It's always gambling, right, Okay,
Let's let's go in with a professional gambler and you
and you tell them, hey, I want to stay at
the five dollars blackjack table. Okay, and and just slowly

(01:06:47):
is still so unsteady?

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
Okay, Yeah, that's what I would say.

Speaker 3 (01:06:49):
Would you say, is there a good way to find
that professional gambler? Because I see, like Rihanna got it
seems like screwed over many years ago by her professional gambler.
And other famous people have these horror stories of getting
fucked over by these these I.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
Think you have to ask people that are wealthy. They
but they like right okay. And then and then you're
gonna go on first dates with these people. Okay, you're
gonna sniff out. I when I have a business manager,
because I'm in this business and my business manager, I
met a few and you know, you meet a couple
and the couple are hey, you know, and we can

(01:07:25):
do kind of we can kind of take this stuff
over here, We'll put the money over here or do this,
and you're like, ah, I don't want that. I went
with the guy who was like who Literally I text
He's like, when your son is born, text me, And
the minute it was, he's like, great, we opened up
a college bank account for that. Wow, you know what
it's like. And he and and he's a person who's like,

(01:07:47):
I'm putting the maximum amount of money away for you
each year for retirement. Like I'm like, it is slow, steady,
and it's like but I think it's like it's all
about because I can come in and be like I go, yeah,
let's I'm gonna tell you right now, crypto is the
way to go. We're gonna put some money crypto over here.
And I have a friend we're gonna actually move this
money over here. Like once. They sound shady and shifty.

(01:08:08):
They are let people tell you what they are. The
person who feels like I it's like I am my
two guys. Yeah, they are married. They are very like
like you couldn't get more like suit and tie, kind
of squeffly.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
Okay, square and lovely okay.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
They're like lovely guys who are not out. They're not
like hey, let's go party eat steaks. If they're like
they're just like, hey, we're gonna do this. This is smart,
let's go there, let's make sure we do this, We'll
invest this way. It's and and and they actually even
stay out of investment that they they go, you can
meet with this guy and well, what do you think.
It's like, Oh, I think you should. If you're gonna
do anything, I would do this minimum. It's it's just

(01:08:46):
and I've never been worried about it. I've never bought it.
You know. It's like, because I have people who are like,
buy these houses my friends, I'm like, you affording that house.
So it's okay because my business manager said, I'm like yeah,
but but then when like a COVID or something hits
or something, we're gonna you're fucked.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
Can sustain it right now. But yeah, you know anyway,
that's that's my advice.

Speaker 3 (01:09:06):
This is really helpful. No, no, no, this is so helpful.
And so I'm hearing like slow and steady. It sounds
like the conservative guys when it comes to your money,
when it comes to a business manager, the people who
are like, we're not trying to do anything wild. We're
very mindful of saving and preserving what you have and
trying to make it work through. But again doing it
smart lee and wise, and there will.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
Be people out there. And like, the other thing too,
is like if you are if you're fucking Ryan Reynolds,
you have a ton of money, right, Like you can
go invest and buy a mobile, Mint Mobile, and you
can buy a fucking tequila company. You can do all
this sort of stuff. You buy a soccer team. But
if we're talking about people like us, yeah, we're making money,
we're having fun, you know, but it's also like we're
not like, you know, I don't think either one of

(01:09:49):
us is pulling down a twenty million dollars pay day.
You know, we're not like, good, what do I do
with these one hundred million dollar checks? You know? It's
like no, it's like if you have that money, there's
a whole different boss.

Speaker 1 (01:09:58):
Okay, yeah, yeah, who does the stakes?

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
And if you go in, yeah, go get that guy
like by this, by a stadium, by a thing like
I always think back to this one piece of advice,
which I've never taken, but I like it. In theory,
Arnold Swartzenegger was a millionaire before he got in movies,
and the way he did it was he took all
of his wrestling money and he bought real estate and
what he do you buy? He bought parking garages in
La Wow, and like and that, and he's like, because

(01:10:22):
that real estate is always going to stay in real
estate and people will say that. But then it's like, well,
then you become a landlord. And then it's like, well
that's the whole other thing. It's like, and then you
need to hire a team if you have the money
to buy real estate. Yeah, but it's also like, why
am I buying? Like I've talked to other people who
are mores, have less money than me, and I'm buying
this the strip mall. I'm like, why are you doing

(01:10:45):
it like as you can? And then you but then
you're like, but then if anything that goes wrong with
that strip mall, that's your fault.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
Right, Okay, Okay, I understand.

Speaker 3 (01:10:52):
I understand the kind of business manager or professional gambler
you're describing to me, and I feel like I'm going
to do a good job navigating in front of it.
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
It is very very very helpful. Thank you so much, Dad.
Thanks Dad. Do you have anything you would like to plug?

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
No, just my book Joyful Recollections of Trauma is available
as an audiobook and ebook whatever you want to get
it as and if you have read it, I thank
you and keep the reviews coming because one of the
coolest things about this book has been people have been
reviewing it so kindly and that actually helps sell more books.
So that's credible.

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
Okay, Okay, we are going to be buying and listening
to your.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
Book, and it has a lot of dad stuff, a
lot of dad you know.

Speaker 3 (01:11:34):
That's what I'm here for. All here for the dad stuff.
Thank you so much, Paul, really really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:39):
Oh my gosh, my pleasure.

Speaker 1 (01:11:42):
Thanks. Dad is a.

Speaker 3 (01:11:43):
Headgum podcast created and hosted by me Ago Wodem.

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
The show is produced and edited.

Speaker 3 (01:11:48):
By Anita Flores and engineered by Anita Flores and Anya Kanofskaya,
with executive producer Emma Foley.

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
Katie Moose is our VP of Content and headgub. Special
thanks to Jason Atheni for our show. Are Faris Marshi
for our theme song From your podcast by Headgum. Visit
headgum dot com or wherever you hear your favorite shows.
Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and maybe, just
maybe we'll read it on a future episode.

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