Ty Burrell

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is a headgum podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm gonna do an ass backworths thing right now. First,
I'm gonna ask you where you're from.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Ty, I'm from Oregon, Southern Oregon.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Okay, Okay, so not woodsy, but something about your background
suggests you could be.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
I should be. I probably should be woodsy.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
But I'm not not a woodsy guy.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Okay, I'm gonna do my intro, and then I'm gonna
go back.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
To Oregon supposedly.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Maybe remember my brain goes one hundred miles per hour,
so maybe.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
I won't by myself.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Okay, Okay, Hi, guys, I may go, and welcome to
Thanks Dad. I was raised by a single mom and
don't have a relationship with my dad. I'm not gonna
have a relationship with my dad because he's actually, guys,
he's dead.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
He died, he died.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
It's not gonna happen unless it happens in the next life.
But I kind of feel like this would have been
the more interesting life in which to have a relationship.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
With my dad.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
There's so many more interesting people to meet in the afterlife.
No shade to dad, but you know, like there's I
can list people that are dead that I'm like, I
really want to get in their heads anyway. On this podcast,
I'm sitting down with father figures who are old enough
to be my dad? Hi, no offense? Oh No, I

(01:24):
mean or are just dads themselves. You don't know how
old I am, partially because Hollywood and partially because I'm black,
and so you don't know how old I could be
any eight I could be your daughter.

Speaker 4 (01:38):
Well, you do know how old I am, partially because
of my lack of zoom filter and partially because I'm white.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
So that's correct, That's actually right.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
I'm gonna get to ask questions I've always wanted to
ask a dad, like how do I know if the
guy I'm dating is right for me? Or what do
I look out for when I'm buying a car? Live
in your I don't have a car, or can you
help me change the oil in said car? You're not outdoorsy, tie,
but are you handy?

Speaker 1 (02:07):
Well? I am.

Speaker 4 (02:09):
I have become a little bit more outdoor outdoorsy. I'm
not inherently outdoorsy and handy. No, not really?

Speaker 3 (02:17):
Okay, all right, okay, and what are your strengths?

Speaker 4 (02:21):
I want to retroactively say that I definitely am someone
who is vulnerable to reading comments, but I try very
hard not to.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
I'm going to qualify that statement.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Okay, okay, So it sound.

Speaker 4 (02:34):
Like I'm impervious to comments, sure, sure, but I try
very hard knock here.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
I also feel like, as a public facing figure, it
is smart to just be like, Nope, I don't read them, no,
or just like to say it though, say it out
loud platforms. You don't want people thinking. I had one
guest say he reads comments, he said on a panel
in the public, and I was like, that's spookier to
me because you've not that you see them. And now

(03:01):
what does that make you vulnerable to? And what will
that expose you to? Because people now know you do,
do you like.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
They're actually corresponding with you in some way? Right?

Speaker 3 (03:09):
And I go, it's better if people think you don't
read them.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Anyway.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
I'm going to do your intro now. Ty.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Today's guest played the lovable Phil Dumpy on Modern Family
for eleven seasons and is a dad himself, not just
to me, but to actual other children. Please welcome my
dad for the day.

Speaker 3 (03:29):
Ty Burrow. Go Hi, Hi, I'm so happy you're here.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
I'm so happy to be here. I'm such a fan,
really truly, such one.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
A my You're relarkably kind. Likewise, thank you for saying yes.
You know I'm gonna be honest. I heard yes, and
then I also heard no, and I guess the truth
was yes, because here you are.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
I also heard no.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Oh no, I heard I heard hard no, and I
go tie no, no no. It was a hard yes
from the beginning. I don't know. I don't know where
the no came from.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
And I didn't say that too in any way, shape
or form. Embarrassed you.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
I'm just like Ty, but me and Ty by the
way back.

Speaker 4 (04:12):
Hard Yes is a great name for like a like
a self help book.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
Right, would you be open?

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Here's a question I'll ask you on the record. Would
you be open to doing a podcast with me titled
hard Yes?

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Oh yeah, okay, hard yes, hard Yes.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
That was the right answer. That was the right answer.
I'm so glad you're here. I can't wait to talk
all things dad and then some with you same saying
you have a dad presumably right, No, we.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Have uncommon I mean I did have a dad, okay,
but my dad died young. Okay, so we are we
are both in the camp of deceased fathers.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
Deceased fathers. Yes, were your parents married?

Speaker 1 (04:53):
They were?

Speaker 3 (04:54):
They were married.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
So I knew my dad until I was twenty, so
I had I had twenty, you know, twenty twenty years
with a great, great dad. He was a really wonderful.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Dad, great years.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
I love to hear that.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Okay, Yeah, I.

Speaker 4 (05:07):
Know you're I don't know a ton about your circumstances,
but I know that you didn't know your dad or
haven't known your dad.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
Yeah, I feel like I didn't know him.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
I feel like saying I didn't know him is accurate
to an extent in that I'm like, no, I don't
know what food you like and what music you like
and really how tall you?

Speaker 3 (05:27):
I don't know. But I know who he was.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
It wasn't this like sort of mystery, like I have
to try to track him down. I knew who he was,
where he was. He was remarried, had a new family.
Some of my friends in college are their dad's children
from the family they decided to actually like step up
for if that makes sense, and hopefully that's the right
way to say that.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
But I was in the first family.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
Okay, I was first family child sun. Yeah, I was
first run at it and then and then we really
do get it right, but I don't. I don't know
if we got it right on the second family or
the next one, but right right. But I didn't know him.
I just we didn't have a relationship. The best way
to put it. Twenty years with your dad. You called
him a great dad. What made him such a great
dad in your opinion?

Speaker 4 (06:09):
He was a very good listener, okay, really good listener,
A very curious guy.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
He was a very gentle guy.

Speaker 4 (06:17):
He was a very funny guy, really valued silliness, Like
our home was very silly place. And I don't think
he ever knew what was happening at school, Like he.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
Never really cared about my homework before. I mean, it
has its down it has its downsides.

Speaker 4 (06:33):
Yeah, yeah, you know he would get he would get
my shitty grades and be like, what is going on
and not notice that I hadn't done any homework and.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
Okay for weeks and months okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
So but yeah he was he was. He was an artist.

Speaker 3 (06:51):
Okay, here it is a guy who was.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
He was.

Speaker 4 (06:54):
He worked in the fosph care system professionally and was
a family therapist.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
But at heart he was an artist.

Speaker 4 (07:01):
He actually had a scholarship to UCLA and the Fine
Arts and was an aspiring New Yorker cartoonist and oh cool,
all that kind of stuff. But that stuff didn't really
pan out for him, so he worked in the phosphere
car system. But in his heart he was a person
who was an artist. And he's the person I first

(07:23):
really like started doing bits with, even though he never
he never saw me perform. I didn't perform until after
he had passed, Okay, but the foundation of like just being.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
An idiot doing bits all day as you know.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yes, I know that well, I know that life very well.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
That that was him. You know, he was a guy
who loved to do bits, just loved it.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Did he share with you his dreams and passions in
terms of art from a young age or did you
learn about that closer to when you were twenty?

Speaker 3 (07:59):
How did you to find out about that?

Speaker 1 (08:01):
A little bit?

Speaker 4 (08:01):
But I actually think it was part of the pain
of his life. So some of the some of the
challenges that he had in his life were based in
the fact that that life didn't pan out. And I
think on some level it definitely is a big part
of What motivated me after he passed, sure was seeing

(08:24):
him I think lament in some ways that he maybe
hadn't stuck his.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
Neck out in a way that he kind of wished
that he had.

Speaker 4 (08:32):
That scholarship I mentioned was a full ride to UCLA
in the fine arts, which was really something you know,
to like back in the early sixties fifties even that
would be offered a full ride in the fine arts,
and he passed on that.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
He didn't take that scholarship.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
I was going to ask you, I was going to say,
you mentioned the scholarship, but you didn't say he went.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
Do you know why he passed on it.

Speaker 4 (08:55):
The legend is, and I never really got clarity before
he passed, was that his his dad needed help on
the dairy farm in Oregon.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (09:04):
But I suspect, all due respect to my dad, that
in fact he passed because he was a little bit
afraid of that as a career.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
And you know that he shared in the passing.

Speaker 4 (09:14):
It wasn't just his dad, but I think in some
level he was a little bit nervous about doing that
because I think in the end.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
There was some regret there. That's my that's my that's
my take.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
On it right from what you understood, did it seem
like his dad was a supportive type or would have
supported a career in the arts for him.

Speaker 4 (09:32):
I think he was sort of a classic fifties dad
in terms of being raised in.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
The fifties, you know where it was. He was just
sort of like a pretty stoic guy. I don't think
he would have been unsupportive, but I don't think it.

Speaker 4 (09:45):
I think it probably was not one of those things
where I like, my dad actually is the one who
planted the seed, said you should be an actor, like,
you know, like before he passed.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
Okay, and I had never done it?

Speaker 3 (10:00):
You like that point you.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Were twenty okay, nineteen okay, and he says to you, hey,
you should do it? Was it just based on watching
you do bits in your bad grades?

Speaker 1 (10:07):
Okay? It was like what I can put two and
two together?

Speaker 4 (10:14):
Yeah, yeah, two point one gpa yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
And a bunch of dumb bits at least.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Two bits and now we've got four you should go
do yeah? Okay. Man, When he said that, what was
your reaction to it?

Speaker 4 (10:30):
Was like somebody saying, like you should you should have
another arm, you know what I mean? I was like,
what like we lived out in the woods in Oregon,
like I didn't, and we had nobody in our family
who was a performer in any way. So yeah, it
came out of left field, but I took it to
heart clearly.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, that's really special. When he passed, was it a
matter of illness?

Speaker 4 (10:55):
Yeah at that point, Okay, he had pancreatic cancer.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
So we oh, no, it's all right.

Speaker 4 (11:01):
We had we had nine months of he was a
family therapist, so he brought in a family therapist to
work with us.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
So we had nine months of like a very intense.

Speaker 4 (11:11):
Some of it, uh you know, like you know, doubling
down on what was already an intense situation where like
he wanted to hash out everything.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Do you wait, in retrospect, do you find that that
was helpful though? To be like it was, okay.

Speaker 4 (11:27):
It was there was, I mean, there was some of
it that was sort of like, oh, I mean it
was helpful, It was sort of some of it was like, well,
I'm already.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Trying to be in denial about you being can you
please just let.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
Me let me come on? Elizabeth Koobler Ross would approve
of me, didn't I.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
Don't want to get to bargaining yet I don't. I'm
not ready for bargaining.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
Wait, come on.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
But uh no, it was good. It was good. It
was good. I mean it was a good thing.

Speaker 4 (11:58):
But yeah, we had nine months of kind of like
going through all of that, and it resulted in some
of the stuff of like, you know, I think you
should be a performer, and you know, some other things
with our family that were really positive.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
And in the context of the family therapy that was
going on as you guys were processing his terminal illness,
this whole I think you should be a performer conversation.
Was that something you had asked him, like, well, what
do you think of my future? Where he was like,
I feel it's really important for me to impart this
to you.

Speaker 4 (12:29):
Yeah, I hosted a talent show for my high school. Okay,
and this was this was before that. But then then
when he was ill, he was like he was thinking
back on that and he was like, I think you
should try this, yeah, which was really wild. I was like, well,
I don't even know what does that mean?

Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yeah, where do I do this? So I just go
out in the yard or.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
Yeah, you're we're in Oregon.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
What are we talking about? It?

Speaker 3 (12:55):
Should go be an actor? Do you have tips pointers?

Speaker 4 (12:59):
Not not to divert conversation, but is that something that like,
did you grow up doing that?

Speaker 2 (13:04):
Like I loved performing when I was younger. I feel
like I was like family entertainment. This is like my
recollection of it. I'd be fascinated to hear what my
family felt about my antics. But I felt like I
really got high on making the adults laugh and being
silly and mimicking them and such. But my aunt when

(13:25):
I was younger, I think I was probably seven or eight.
She's the one that put me in ballet and I
was ballerina for ten years. But she said to me,
you should go be a model or something, which her
sister is like, everyone's going to go be a doctor.
Because the very first generation experience I was having in that.

Speaker 4 (13:42):
I remember you talking about the very first time we met,
the very first time we met. I remember you talking
about this that the doctor thing was like a very yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
And I understand it wasn't even a matter of being
closed minded, perhaps, but more so a matter of like
your parents immigrates to this country and they're like for
opportunity and the sake of stability and financial security and
to an extent, like my mom and all the other
Nigerian parents and other immigrant parents who say, go be

(14:13):
a doctor, they're kind of right, like you're always gonna
need doctors, and that's a secure profession and it's respectable.
You get to bring to your friends my daughter, my
son's a doctor. So I understand that perspective. And so
following a passion wasn't really that wasn't a thing, or
like pursuing happiness. I'm like, there wasn't really a thing.

(14:34):
It was like, you grow up, you have responsibilities. What
is the career path that is going to put you
in the best position to handle your responsibilities and all
that is likely going to come your way? And I'm like,
doctor is one. And so I find it fascinating though,
even having these conversations with all these incredible parents, I'm
hearing from people about their dads.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
It was sort of like my dad might have had.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
A goal or a dream, but he felt his duty
first and foremost was to take care of his face
family and provide for them. So his goal, his passion,
his dream took the back seat and fell.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
By the wayside.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
Because why do I say that with a British wayside side,
but by the wayside, because it was like, I have
to take care of my family, and it's cute to
have dreams, and it's cute to hope to be a
creative or whatever other path that they may not have taken,
but this is my priority and I'm hearing that shared experience.
And these are not immigrants in the sense in the

(15:26):
way that we think of immigrants.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
Right were you Were you actively dissuaded from it? Like
were they sort of like no, no, no, no, don't
don't don't do it.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
No, you know, I do an exaggerated like impression of
my mom, but she was actually quite supportive, Like I
really couldn't do what I do for work today if
I didn't have the support of my family.

Speaker 3 (15:47):
I don't really know.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
I commend anyone who's able to despite like your family
trying to dissuade you, is able to then pursue this
work and become successful in it because it took They
say it takes a village, and I'm like, it did
take a village. Everyone was so helpful and supportive, and
I think if I was combating family being like what
a silly idea, This is crazy regularly. I don't think

(16:12):
I would have been able to because you've say so
much rejection already, right, you know what you need at
least people be like, well that's great, even if they're
quietly like we're worried, but they're keeping it to themselves.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
I'm like, I, yeah, it was help.

Speaker 4 (16:26):
I would love to be the person who is just
sort of like six season in spite of opposition, But like,
I am so not that person even on set, Like
if I feel like the director or.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
Whomever is not liking what I'm doing, I'm I mean.

Speaker 3 (16:47):
Well over it's okay, okay, well it's done for me.
I didn't get there the validation I need.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
Do you think part of you is pursued comedy because
we get in terms of live performance when and a
lot of us came up in live theater, get that
sort of instant affirmation in the laughter.

Speaker 3 (17:03):
Do you think that's a thing for you.

Speaker 5 (17:06):
Kind of nice?

Speaker 1 (17:07):
I mean, you're living it, you're living it.

Speaker 4 (17:10):
I I just recently shot up a multiicam that and
I haven't done that in since like two thousand and nine,
you know, live audience comedy, but it really did.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
It was I had that kind of epiphany.

Speaker 4 (17:22):
It's been so long, really, but I was like, oh, yeah,
this is it, this is this is why, this.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
Is why it started.

Speaker 4 (17:29):
It's when it's not working it's the worst. But yeah,
but when it's working, it's just a love bath. I
just you know, you just show like, oh, this is it.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
Truly feels so good. I'm alive, this is what I
was here to do. The fact that I get to
do it you feel so good. And then when it's
so bad, it's remarkably demoralizing it. You're unbelievable, high risk,
ky reward kind of unbelievable.

Speaker 4 (17:53):
I mean, you're living that to the anth degree, to
the anth degree.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
It is pretty wild because now instead of doing shows
at UCB Theater and my comedy community where it's like
sort of the safe cocoon, where it's like all these
people have seen me have excellent shows already and they
know me and they're rooting for me. Yeah, and they
might see me on a Wednesday do a terrible thing.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, but it's it's just one little thing.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
Yeah, It's like it's we know each other, we're a family.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Whereas with SNL, the world gets to see this and
they might just be tuning in for the first time
today and I could go, who the fuck is that girl?

Speaker 4 (18:26):
She's But do you feel but do you feel after
being on for a few seasons, do you feel like
you're getting some of the same benefit of the doubt
of like people having seen you be really, really hilarious
for a long stretch.

Speaker 3 (18:41):
Thanks Ty?

Speaker 2 (18:43):
I think yes. I think the audience has to get
to know you. And that's one thing I learned about
live performance and namely just doing comedy. The benefit of
the doubt thing is really I remember when I was
coming up at U Seeb and I was like, that
guy or that girl on stage can just say yellow
and everyone's dying laughing, and I'm like, was yellow funny?

Speaker 3 (19:04):
Or do we love you? And listen?

Speaker 2 (19:06):
It is amazing to be on the receiving end of
that kind of energy and belief from the audience. I
would not turn it away, but it just takes some
time to build that trust with an audience.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
Are you feeling some of that now? Yes?

Speaker 3 (19:18):
I do. I do feel some of that.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
But the part of me that really wants to succeed
and wants to achieve and has really high standards for myself,
I get a lot of feedback from people who know me,
and even internally at S and L there, like you're
so hard on yourself, You're so your standard is just
too high for yourself. I don't know any other way
to be, though ty. Who knows where'd I get it from?

(19:42):
You know, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (19:43):
I mean, it may it might have been. It sounds
like you have a very achieving family.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yes, you know, but it's so interesting my mom when
you're talking about your dad didn't care about like you
doing homework my mom. This is when I try to
paint the picture of exactly who she is.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
I struggle.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
My mom would be like, I think it is so
wrong that you guys have to go to school for
eight hours a day and then come home and do homework.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
That is so wrong, which I agree, by the way,
But yeah, she.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
Was like I remember that being her soapbox. She's like,
that's crazy. And then she'd be like, you know, she
never cared about grades, she never I was a latch
key kid. It was pretty amazing. And then you have
these like high achieving kids. I'm like, she wasn't that strict,
pretty chill mom, And it turns out it's helpful. I
guess to not have overly strict parents. Your dad seemingly

(20:33):
was not strict. It sounds like no, okay.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
He really was.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
Was he a disciplinarian at all in any way?

Speaker 5 (20:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (20:38):
Okay, yeah, I think there were definitely rules, but it
had more to do with like, you know, it had
more to do with like me as a person, like
me being kind or not. You know, he lost his
shit a couple of times in my life, but it
usually had to do with me being a dick to my.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
Other So how many siblings do you have, Tai?

Speaker 1 (21:17):
I have three?

Speaker 3 (21:18):
Three.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
I have two older siblings, a brother and a sister,
and then I have a younger brother.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
Okay, so middle child, did you feel ignored growing up
in any way?

Speaker 5 (21:26):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (21:27):
No, I didn't. I didn't. I didn't.

Speaker 4 (21:29):
I didn't fit that trope. I got plenty of plenty
of attention. Possibly too much. Possible, there's a possibility that
they may have overdone it.

Speaker 3 (21:38):
Okay, maybe gave you a little, but look at you now.

Speaker 4 (21:42):
Created a lot of expectations are coming by dope, the
dopamine in black cortex.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
Everyone's gonna love me, Everyone's gonna see me, They're going
to enjoy me.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
My mom tells me this story.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Though I got on a plane to Nigeria when I
was like four with her. The last time I went
to Nigeria, I was nineteen, which I have to get back,
but I want to go with friends instead of my
mom because I don't want to do.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
My mom's thing. I don't have my own. But I
haven't been since I was nineteen.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
But when I was four and I was going with
my mom, I guess she kept telling me like everyone's
expecting us. They can't wait, you know, they can't wait
for us to get to Nigeria and they're all they
all can't wait to meet you. And I was so excited.
I remember, she tells me. I got on the plane
and I go, you said, everyone was excited to see me.
Why aren't they hugging me on the plane And she's

(22:33):
like these are not them? And whoever was in the
vicinity laughed at that. But that's when the drugs started from.
But truly I did it.

Speaker 3 (22:39):
I was like I did it.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
I was like, you said, they're excited, no one's even
acknowledging me, and she's like, well these people.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
Don't, You're like, hug me, hug me, hug me.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
Strange strangers, hug me, show me. Come on here. I
heard you were waiting for me.

Speaker 4 (22:53):
Come on, I got I got a lot of seats
to go before I sit down.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
I know no one, no one's saying anything. You're just
worried about your bed. Come on, but listen. I think
all actors maybe have a little bit of that in them.
Of all the times your dad lost his shit with you,
which I was going to ask about, yeah, yeah, what
is one that sticks out to you the most? You
said it was times when you're being a dick to
your brother. Is there a time you really were like, oh,

(23:18):
I really have pissed dad off?

Speaker 4 (23:20):
I remember. So this was kind of an odd contradiction
with my dad. He did not care about my homework.
He never paid attention to it. We would go come
home and just do bits and watch you know, stuff
together or whatever, even out in the woods, you know,
just watching like Carson or something back in nineteen fifteen
or whatever that was. But when I failed that dropped

(23:45):
out of college.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Okay, so I dropped out of college.

Speaker 4 (23:48):
I was I mean the amount of time that I
wasn't smoking a weed was like.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
Five took ten minutes a day. Right.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
I know I shouldn't be profile, but you do not
strike me as a person who ever has touched marijuana.

Speaker 5 (24:07):
I touched it. God did I touch it?

Speaker 3 (24:11):
God did I felt that marijuana every curve?

Speaker 5 (24:20):
Wow?

Speaker 4 (24:21):
Okay, I smoked so much. I don't I can't anymore.
I can't do that because I loved it so much.
Oh wow, I am I am a non marijuana smoker because.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
It was just like.

Speaker 3 (24:37):
I'm loving this die.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
But I had a one point six.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Ka sorry, which is very hard your face, It's very
very like it.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
Takes some doing to get a one point six.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
What part of the alphabet where your grades? Like back
half of the alphabet? Yeah, back, back half back getting
these I.

Speaker 4 (25:01):
Was getting ours and ends.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
Okay, but I came home.

Speaker 4 (25:09):
I remember coming home and you know they had they
had spent a lot.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
Of money, you know they we didn't have a lot
of money.

Speaker 4 (25:15):
We were we weren't poor, but you know, you know,
you could kind of see the poverty line from where
we were at.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
One false move, too many, too many car breakdowns, back
to back.

Speaker 4 (25:28):
Truly, truly we were that where when my dad would
get like the tax refund, which would I remember we
got one year for like two thousand dollars. He was like,
we're going we're going out to eat and we went
for pizza.

Speaker 3 (25:42):
Like that was oh my gosh, yes, I understand.

Speaker 4 (25:46):
But anyway, yeah, so they spent money and he lost
his mind.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
He lost his mind.

Speaker 4 (25:51):
That was that made that puts him back in the
category like he seemed like an old fashioned.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
Dad and that that was one of those. He loved
to parent me.

Speaker 4 (26:02):
With sarcasm, okay, and like socratic.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
It was all questions.

Speaker 4 (26:07):
So we'd be like, so tell me, like ask like
I'd like to know what did you do this semester?

Speaker 1 (26:14):
You know, it was that kind of thing like do
you think this is a good use of our money?

Speaker 4 (26:19):
Like I'd like to know, and I would really like
an answer, do you think those are good use of
more money? There was like one thing, one of those,
one of those, for like an hour and a half
of me just going like no, you know, I'll because
the answers no, it wasn't yes, that was dumb.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
So how old are you when you dropped out in
flumber eighteen?

Speaker 1 (26:40):
You were nineteen nineteen.

Speaker 3 (26:43):
So you weren't kidding.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
When he was like between the bits and these greats
go be an actor. You were not describing that scenario
for comedic effect.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
That's actually what went on.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
It really was. I had no other skill set. I
still have no other skills.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
But you're not handy. You're pretending a little bit. You're
dabbling an outdoorsy right.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
Now, cause playing outdoors guy, I was playing out doorsy.

Speaker 5 (27:03):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
Okay, So you remember him losing his ship. But was
he want to raise his voice or was it just
the questions, the sarcastic questions.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
Yeah, it was mostly just sarcasm, but but it was
it was intense like he was.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
It was very biting. Yeah, and I would say, yeah,
I think the volume was high. I think the volume
was high. There loud, sarcasm.

Speaker 5 (27:24):
Had last It's hard.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
Actually, sarcasm is like normal, yeah, sarcasm.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
Was there an audience where your other siblings around when
this would happen or when this particular conversation happened.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
Okay, no, but they all knew what was going on.

Speaker 4 (27:40):
I was in the you know, he took me into
my bedroom, which is you know, that's when you know, oh,
yeah it was.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
It was not good.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
But he was a family therapist. So I feel like
he knew exactly how to use the skills he had
learned in his profession to make you feel what he
needed you to feel. I don't want to assume it's
the shame you had to feel one, and it was.

Speaker 4 (28:02):
That's why it was all the socratic stuff, like he
used the questions in family therapy. But for me, it
was definitely let me know that I had really screwed up.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
But it was all questions, right, all questions, no statements.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
No statements. Only statements were coming from you and answers and.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
Obvious answers, obvious answers.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah, when you ultimately flunked out, drop out, it's like,
this is not going to work for me.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
What does that conversation with him look like?

Speaker 4 (28:31):
He was a little bit more open to it, I
think because he knew I wasn't really ready for college.
So yeah, I sort of started wandering the earth a
little of soul smoking just unbelievable amounts of weeds.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
You can feeling up the es, I mean every I
mean every crevice.

Speaker 4 (28:49):
I had one of those red wagons that I would
carry behind me.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
That was just you know, just bull.

Speaker 3 (28:57):
Did he know you were smoking weed?

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah? I think he did. I think he did.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
I think he did.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
He never said to you like, I know you're smoking
and the drugs are going to get in your way.

Speaker 3 (29:06):
I can smell it on you. None of that. It
was just like he's a smart man. Okay, So we.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Never talked about so, okay, what's the conversation?

Speaker 3 (29:14):
Like, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
It was basically like I think I'm going to drop
out of school. I'm going to and I was going
to travel.

Speaker 4 (29:20):
So I that began a period where I just worked
and traveled until he got sick and then and then
I moved home for that period, and I did stop
smoking weed then when he got.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
Sick and you moved home. Why do you think that is?

Speaker 6 (29:37):
I think the kind of like what we were talking
about before, where it became clear that there were aspects
of his life that he hadn't lived and I.

Speaker 4 (29:48):
Never really realized that that because it was actively happening
for me. Yes, it was very very much a present,
tense thing experience for me where I was not living.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
Parts of my life. But I definitely I got a really.

Speaker 4 (30:04):
Strong sense from him that there were aspects of his
life that were unfulfilled, which I just hadn't really put together.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Before.

Speaker 4 (30:10):
So yeah, I stopped and started to started to think
about other things, and the first thing, weirdly enough, was acting.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
He had said that, you know.

Speaker 4 (30:22):
So he died in July and I went to an
acting class.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
In August. I went back. I went back to college, okay,
and went directly into an acting class and was like,
what do I.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
I mean, okay, we were here.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
What happens?

Speaker 2 (30:40):
So, yeah, because you didn't know what to do. Is
he's telling you should pursue a career in acting. You're like,
I don't even know, Like you said what that entails.

Speaker 4 (30:48):
No, I was like, my dad died and said I
should be an actor.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
And they're like, welcome to class, buddy, every okay, everyone's
everybody's garden.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
Fucking Lineman.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
When you say you got the sense that there were
parts of his life that were unfulfilled, and you've said
it a few times, did you actually hear him express
that too overtly in any way?

Speaker 1 (31:15):
I don't think so.

Speaker 4 (31:17):
I think it actually came through in him saying that
I should pursue my dreams, you know what I mean? Like,
I think if you were somebody who was ill and
not long, not long for the world, I think my
instinct would probably be the other direction, which is like,

(31:38):
take care of your family, take care of your mom.
I need you to, you know, I need you to
get a good job and make sure that the family
is secure.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
But I think that I just my interpretation.

Speaker 4 (31:52):
Is that he was It was basically in his immediate
like you need you should be a performer, and you
should really pursue your dreams.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
I think it was from in the subtext I really
appreciate that and being able to like see your parents
and their humanity and saying, Okay, he's saying this to me,
But how do I read between the lines and even
hear the message behind the message?

Speaker 1 (32:15):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
While you were pursuing acting, did you then feel an
intense sense of responsibility to succeed at it because this
is something your dad shared with you right before he died,
like that he believes you should do this.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
I think so. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (32:30):
I think I felt I definitely felt a real responsibility
to stick my neck out because that was kind of
the message that I was.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
Getting from him.

Speaker 4 (32:40):
The other part, in addition to the fact that he
hadn't pursued he when he was younger, as an adult,
he would send cartoons into the New Yorker from the
Woods of Oregon. Yeah, I remember you like put you
know in a Manila envelope. He would go to the
go to town to put them.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
In the mail. Wow, and then get injection you know envelopes.

Speaker 4 (33:01):
And at a certain point he stopped and he did
it for a couple of years. But so I think
the I definitely felt I felt a real connection to.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Him in the pursuit of it.

Speaker 4 (33:13):
I guess maybe I didn't feel a ton of pressure
to succeed, but I I definitely felt a lot of
pressure to like really have the adventure, like really like
go for it.

Speaker 5 (33:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (33:28):
Also, it really helps when you can't when you have
no other skill set like that.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
I will say, like.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
I really I've heard it said about acting, like if
you're going to pursue a career in acting, do it
because you literally can't see yourself doing anything else. Because
if you can see yourself doing something else, just go
do that.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
That's sad.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
And it's even better if you not just that you
can't see it. You literally can't do anything else. Like
you tried.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
And it didn't work.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
No, not good at that.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
What was your major though, your first go at college.
Did you have this?

Speaker 4 (34:00):
Because I think it was communication, which is I don't
even know what that means to.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
This day that I went to USC.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
There's a big communication school there, Annenberg, I don't know
what it means. But I mean, I know a journalist.
I know that, Like, but I know you have to
be a journalism major. What is a communication major?

Speaker 1 (34:18):
I don't know what. What did you study?

Speaker 2 (34:20):
I studied biology. I was a biology major. A message
you were, I was on my way to pretending I
was pretending I was going to be a doctor. I
would have been a terrible doctor. I would have been
so terrible. Who wants a doctor who doesn't want to
be there? But then again, I wouldn't be.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
Surprised if that's a good number of doctors.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
I'd be curious to how many doctors have other passions
and things they might have pursued if they felt they
had that option.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
Did you graduate with a degree in biology?

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Graduated with a degree in biology? Because I have this
aversion to quitting that sounds noble, but I actually think
it's problematic at times for me a big time And
I'm like, I did not like it straight away, Okay,
and then I I look back, yeah, straight away.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
I mean we're.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
Talking month one. I'm like, I don't know that I
made any of the right decisions to this point, but
I had made up my mind.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
This is where I was going to school.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
This is what I was going to study, because this
is the deal with my mom, that I would study
biology and be pre med. It didn't have to be biology,
but i'd be pre med. I think if i'd been, like,
my major psych but I'm pre mad, she would have
been like.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
No, no, no, you're very enough track.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
Like, so I was like, here's a science major, not
a social science, but a science major, hard science, right,
and I'm pre med. I knew I didn't like it,
but I was like, this is the plan. This is
what people do when they go to college. You don't
study in art. And I would hear whispers and around
the holidays, around other cousins who were older and they

(35:43):
weren't cousins by blood, but like, this person went to
this Ivy League school, but then they changed their major
once they got there, because you're allowed because your parents
aren't in control of you at eighteen, and now they're
on a wayward path because they changed their to creative writing.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
Or something, and so I knew, like, you don't do that,
that's throwing away QUI.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Lost, Yeah exactly, Yes.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Oh my goodness, you change your You're at an ivy,
but you change your major. So I would hear that,
and I was like, Okay, so I'm going to just
do this. This will be my like I have a
really solid air quote backup plan. But I'm like, I
don't even know that I would have got into med school.
I certainly would dread every day of it.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
I know that.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah, I just wasn't a good science student. I kind
of think it's crazy that we make eighteen year olds
pick a major and be like, and that's the thing
you're gonna do.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
I'm like, I don't know, Like.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
I'm curious at this point, and I should be curious
what a cool trait to try to first of all,
maintain well into adulthood. But at this point I should
definitely be able to just dabble in curiosity. Yeah, but
I remember looking back, I'm like in my twenties, and
I was like, you didn't like science in high school,
literally didn't like it, Like actively did not enjoy those
classes in high school?

Speaker 3 (36:50):
What made you think?

Speaker 5 (36:51):
Did you?

Speaker 1 (36:52):
But did you do well in them?

Speaker 3 (36:54):
I didn't do poorly.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
I didn't really get bad grades in high school at all,
but I actively didn't enjoy it. There were classes that
I was more curious about and that I excelled in.
When I picked up a business miner at USC my
senior year, because I thought college had to be four years.
At this point, I'm basically done my bio major of
one class. Other people would be like, I'm taking one
class this semester. They might have crammed in the class
over the summer. They might have been like, and I

(37:16):
did college in three years. But I was like, it's
got to be four years. So I picked up two miners.
One of them was business, and I loved doing my
business homework because I like math, but not enough to
be a math major. But I really liked math, and
so I'm like, I enjoy this. I'm excited to get
my lined paper and my mechanical pencil and figure out
access for its liabilities. Round my accounting class, I was like,

(37:36):
I love it. I love these numbers. I love sitting
got to do math. So there are other things I
could have done in terms of majors that I think
I would have found enjoyable. I'm glad I get to
do this thing. But while you mentioned finding parallels, it
seems between your pursuit of acting and your dad's pursuit
in the arts himself and sending his cartoons to the
New Yorker, Is there anything else you look at now

(37:59):
and you go, ah, I'm experiencing or clocking a parallel
with my dad here, like values he instilled in you
that you're seeing.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
Oh my goodness, these are really appoying to me.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
Now, Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 4 (38:11):
So I've taken this long break up until this past
spring from performing, and a lot of had to do
with moving the Utah. And my dad was never gone.
He was never gone, like, never never traveled. I don't
remember him being gone, and I mean ever he's here
every night.

Speaker 3 (38:31):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (38:31):
And the first part of being a first stretch of
being a parent, I was gone a fair amount, you know,
just by the nature of our business.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
You know, I just be gone for two weeks here,
three weeks there, you know, whatever it was.

Speaker 4 (38:47):
And I think maybe by virtue of COVID to a degree.
But once I got into that rhythm, I really really
felt my dad in terms of like just I don't
even think of it as like a virtue. It just
really like I got into a rhythm of like being
home and my dad loved to cook, and I've grown

(39:09):
to love to cook.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
And I think probably.

Speaker 4 (39:13):
Losing him when I was younger as a motivator, but
I've definitely felt connected to him and like really loving
to be home, right, and really like I'm prioritizing it
isn't isn't even a word. I mean, isn't the right word,
because it's truly organic. It's just really like that I'm
just really digging it, like just been really nice, and
it's hard to think about like scenarios that feel like

(39:37):
worth it if that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (39:38):
Yeah, that does make sense.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
And it's cool to hear it put that way, even
as you sort of like, I don't want to reject
is maybe too strong of a word, but you sort
of like show away the notion that it's a virtue
that you would want to be present. It's it's really
cool to hear that where you go, yes, sure, a priority,
but I actually just really enjoy it. I prefer it
to other things, and I prefer it to being gone.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
Yeah, and I think it's a real that's a blessing.

Speaker 4 (40:03):
You know that that my dad really gave me was
I could tell he was having a good time.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
That's a fucking cool time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was
having a good time. He really like he cooked, and
we laughed a lot, and you know, it.

Speaker 4 (40:18):
Was like it wasn't like he was at home begrudgingly, right,
it was really like we we we have a lot
of good nights.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
And he had energy for you guys, and you were
sharing energy. I'm just picturing that childhood or your youth
with him. And when you're saying, like, we laughed and
he liked to cook, and he liked being home and
he seemed like he was enjoying it, that's so refreshing.

Speaker 4 (40:39):
Probably painting too perfect of a picture of our home life, though,
because Okay, there were certainly periods when I'm sure he
was absolutely sick of us, and I'm just not remembering
them well.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
Also, I mean it's people.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
People pass away and you tend to remember and you
just remember the good. But you don't sound pretty. I
wasn't there. Again, you are old enough to be my dad.
You said you're nineteen fifteen, was it? No, But you
don't seem deluted. I don't get the sense that you're
like now painting the picture of this. He sounds quite
human in so many ways, given that he was having

(41:15):
so much fun and you were aware of it, and
you were sharing all these laps and you didn't feel pressure,
which is all wonderful things to feel in your home life.
Did you always know you wanted to be a dad?

Speaker 1 (41:25):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (41:26):
Yeah, I think there was a brief period when.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
Holly, my wife, and I, when we lived in New.

Speaker 4 (41:33):
York, when we kind of entertained not having kids because
you know, I don't know about what it is about
New York, but it was just like we were having
the great time.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Yeah, New York's a vibe in that way it is
I want kids, and I feel like when I walk
around the city some days or weeks, especially in the summer,
I go, oh, why would you go and do that? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (41:53):
Yeah, it really was.

Speaker 4 (41:55):
It was like you see in somebody carrying a bassinet
up the subway stairs when you're like like, no, I
think we're fine. Yeah, but no, no, in the back
of my mind, I really did.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
I really did want to be apparent, And it's.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
Yeah, even as you didn't know exactly what you wanted
to do professionally or career wise. You're like, this is
something I knew I wanted.

Speaker 4 (42:17):
Yeah, that's that's a thing that we all have to
deal with. It's really weird, and I suppose anybody who
is a freelance employee of any kind like we are.
But there's this double dutch of like when do you
start a family with your career?

Speaker 1 (42:37):
You know, like do I jump in now? Do I
jump in now?

Speaker 4 (42:40):
You know, you're like waiting for this perfect window and
that can that can go on forever and ever. So
we got a late start. But okay, because I just
goes constantly. We were constantly like do we have enough
like savings, like we're going to need another bedroom, you know,
like all of that stuff like that can go on forever.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
But when you guys did go ahead and do it,
you're saying you got a late start. Did you feel
you had found the perfect window or was it sort
of like.

Speaker 4 (43:06):
Yes and no, yes and no, Like there's kind of
never the perfect window and so much of life is
out of your control anyway.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
Yeah, but in retrospect it kind of was.

Speaker 4 (43:16):
Yeah, it just was like at the beginning of some
some stability and we were starting to feel a little
more connected to the West Coast. It was like, which
is where we were both raised? Yeah, she was raised
here in Utah. I was raised in Oregon, and that's
kind of where we kind of that's where our tools
for parenting were, right, you know, basically working out of

(43:38):
a car.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
Okay, yes, I guess not really New York. So yeah, yeah,
it has did kind of feel like luckily.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
I mean, I'm from Baltimore and I was saying to
somebody yesterday and my friend is moving to New York
and he's from LA and he's only ever lived in LA.
And he was like, I don't know how I'm going
to do. How am I going to do the winters?
He was like, how do you deal? I was like,
I'm from a car place. It is cold outside, but
I go start the car in the driveway if it's
so cool, you know, I'm like, you don't like hang

(44:10):
out outside in Baltimore and we're driving from building with
heat to building with heat, and so I was like,
I still don't love New York winter and any by
any starch of the imagination.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
Yeah, that always felt like an adventure.

Speaker 4 (44:24):
Winter in New York always felt like I was the
closest I'd ever get to being like an explorer.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
Yes, so you.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
Found this perfect window, which I love for you. And
were you scared when you go I'm going to embark
on this journey? Yet you were scared?

Speaker 1 (44:40):
Yeah? For sure?

Speaker 3 (44:41):
What were you freaked about?

Speaker 4 (44:43):
My gosh, everything everything? I think, you know, I just
want to do right by this little human.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
Also, I think because and my.

Speaker 4 (44:52):
You know, we talked a lot about my dad, but
my mom is just such an extraordinary person on especially
after my dad passed, just showed unbelievable strength, you know.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Yeah, just an incredible, incredible woman. She's still alive. She
lives within a mile of me now in Utah. That's nice.
She's awesome.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
She left Oregon and was like, I'm going to come
to Utah.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
So yeah, okay, my brother lives here too.

Speaker 4 (45:17):
We have some we have some businesses here in town.
So she came to tracking down the grandkids. She she
is very old fashioned. She does not knock.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
So I want any of the doors, the front door,
it was okay, none of the doors. Also allowed to
have doors locked growing up, but not like I also
never felt like my privacy was invaded. But but it
was like doors locked in the houses. We don't do that.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
But anyway, yeah, yeah she doesn't. She hasn't locked her
door for real. She hasn't locked her car doors or
her her front door of her house in her life.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
My mom's friend, miss Esther, also never locked her front door.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
And this is in Baltimore. Miss Ester never locked her
front door. Was like, no need, And I was like, whoa,
we locked our front door.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
I will say, wow, yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
My mom.

Speaker 4 (46:07):
I will still say like, Mom, you got to lock
your door, and she's like, well, fifty.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
Five years later, I think there's some empirical proof, you.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
Know, yeah, And you can't really argue with her there,
I guess.

Speaker 4 (46:19):
But anyway, I'll turn a corner in the house and
she'll be there with some muffins or something. I was like,
oh god, yeah, And I think I had just like
I also wanted to kind of do right by the
parents who like really worked hard to try to get
me into a good place, which took some shaping, right,

(46:39):
So yeah, I felt a lot of pressure there. I
really the pressure is lessened when you have a partner
who's really like on the ball. My wife is just
a really very competent person.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
Thank you. Yeah, shout out to Holly is.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Actually was she was when we met. And then this
was in New York.

Speaker 4 (46:58):
The business, the business end of the business didn't really.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
Drive with her, so she became a banker in New York.
Well for a long time. Yeah, left and then uh.

Speaker 4 (47:11):
I went to pastry school and has had some different
chapters in her life.

Speaker 5 (47:15):
But so cool.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
Yeah, wow, I love that she went from acting to
banker because I go straight up instability the Flora's lava
when you're an actor to Okay, now it's concrete and
I know where my check's coming from every week, and
there's order here, and there's a way that things go.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
It's linear in many ways. That's nice.

Speaker 4 (47:38):
She well, especially as you as somebody who who loves
math and loves that world.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
But she it was the place that she went to
like within.

Speaker 4 (47:48):
A few maybe a year after she was kind of transitioning,
and she supported us.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
Wow, she really did. Like I was, I was a
fan in a lot like.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
For years, right, and this is before the kids come along. Yes, yeah, okay,
Now when she was supporting you guys, Yeah, how was
your male ego doing?

Speaker 1 (48:11):
Tell me it was. It took him. It took him minute,
you know, it took him minute. Like I think I
was raised.

Speaker 4 (48:17):
I was raised in a very progressive household, so I
had that going for me.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
But I think maybe I don't know if it's.

Speaker 4 (48:24):
My probably my male ego, probably my male ego, but
definitely my ego in general.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Also also my my genderless ego.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Genderless ego. Fine, yes, your how is your genderless ego?

Speaker 4 (48:37):
Doing ego was also really like you gotta get your
ship together, You got to pull in some you got
to pull.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
Your weight a little. So I worked really hard.

Speaker 4 (48:50):
I will say, like, I think I was very motivated
to to to kind of carry my weight and I
and probably to your point, probably some of that's pride.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
Yeah, yeah, like just me getting up early to work.

Speaker 4 (49:07):
On auditions because I'm like, yeah, I don't want to
go to another dinner party and have her like, you know,
she was really climbing the ladder quickly at this credit
swee a big banking from in New York.

Speaker 3 (49:19):
Sure, yeah, I've heard that.

Speaker 4 (49:20):
I'm just like, you know, I went in for a
you know, a Sonic commercial.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
Can't pay the rent with the veil, you can't pay
bills with a veil, which I'm so fascinated by because
just having pursued acting myself and having friends in different
stages of their careers. Still you know some friends who
have like really sort of I don't even want to
say figured it out, because as much as I don't
know that I believe in luck fully, I want to

(49:52):
just for the sake of being concise. Go people who've
gotten super lucky and it has just fucking worked out.
And then there's people who I'm like, they get a
thing here and there, it's pretty unstable and inconsistent. Yeah,
I'm fascinated by the dynamics with relationships in that regard,
And so to hear even your experience, you're at a

(50:12):
dinner party and Holly pulls out her card, but she
pretends you pulled it out. You get to you take
her card before you go into the couple's dinner party
and put it in your wallet, and then the server's
looking for a Holly and well, Holly want to sign.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
It, Harry, thank you, Harry everything.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
And someone goes every time I'm getting in the sense
that Holly's paying for everything. Yeah, well, that's wonderful that
you had a partner that way. What are some things
that you guys are trying to instill as parents in
your girls.

Speaker 4 (50:46):
It's girls, right, Yeah, I think where we're at right now,
we're entering into homework like for the first time. And
as you know from earlier within this discussion, I was
not so it's not good at it.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
So you were not missed a homework.

Speaker 4 (51:03):
Okay, So now I'm I'm in the position of trying
to advocate, like trying to basically convince my my daughter's
that really it's important to develop these good habits that
I didn't have.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
So don't nobody's nobody's going to hear this.

Speaker 3 (51:17):
Right, No, don't let that How old are they?

Speaker 1 (51:20):
Fourteen and twelve?

Speaker 2 (51:22):
We are We are going to be playing episodes in
every child's middle school, So every dad who comes on,
I'm locating their schools and I'm going to if they're
middle school and up or playing them. Do they watch
your work or seek out your work in an.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
Really no, no, not really.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
Not interested in you? Does that feel kind of nice?

Speaker 1 (51:40):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (51:40):
And it's simultaneously nice and insulting, because like one, it's
great because they don't give a crap, you know, But
the other thing is like when I come on screen,
if it's something they're watching.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
They're basically like hurry up, like.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
Too, because now I'm They're like, I've been pulled out
of the story because that's and.

Speaker 5 (52:00):
Now I think it is.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
Okay, I think that's actually it.

Speaker 4 (52:03):
There's sort of like, let's get we were actually watching something.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
Yeah, now you come on screen, damn it. Okay, So
homework is a thing right now that you're.

Speaker 4 (52:11):
Trying to we're trying to instill like good habits, which
I you know, as an adult, I developed good habits.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
But the truth be told, when I was their age,
I had no good habits.

Speaker 4 (52:24):
So right now my wife is leading the charge because
she's always had good habits.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
Okay, I'm in the background. I'm like her hired man.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
That's what mom said, Yeah, you were, you were.

Speaker 3 (52:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
If you heard all her life, all her life, and
you and you her life, you're Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
If your daughters do not do well academically, how do
you think you're going to handle that?

Speaker 1 (52:58):
Good question, Good question. I've got no ground to stand on.
I've got no ground to stand on.

Speaker 4 (53:04):
Yeah, I gotta just say quietly in the background and
let Holly go out him.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Hype man is quiet now go, hype man's actually quiet
for shame?

Speaker 5 (53:15):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Is that crying? Is he?

Speaker 3 (53:19):
What is that crying? What's happening? Yeah? I think that's
a fascinating spot to be in.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
Where you go, yeah, I made this mistake or I
misstepped in this way. But here's the thing, it's crazy
because it all worked out for you, right, So then
you go, how much does it really matter? I did
not have good habits at twelve and fourteen?

Speaker 4 (53:39):
Yeah, yeah, I guess you know, I can at least
bring up that, like I had to develop good habits
and and hopefully have good habits so that like, hopefully
I'm modeling some decent oubits. But but I basically started
when I was twenty, so I've got like they've got.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
A long leash, They've they've got some time.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
But also the notion I think that might be helpful
is like the sooner you start, the better.

Speaker 3 (54:05):
The sooner you developed, the heck, the better.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Thank you, more.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
Life to enjoy with more order. In those years when
Dak was will you tell them that you were smoking weed? O?

Speaker 1 (54:16):
We Oh, well, here's the thing. I didn't start and
this is true, Okay, I didn't start until I was
out of high school.

Speaker 4 (54:22):
So it was really just like two years of like
full blood constant Okay, okay, like zero to one hundred, okay,
zero to one hundred.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
You don't and you do not dibble dabble anymore.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
No, you're not.

Speaker 3 (54:35):
Oh wow, hard.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
No, I would be within like twenty minutes. I'd be
in my underwear watching cartoons, maybe snacking like like it would.
It wouldn't even be like a half an hour.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
Okay, you're like, I can how did you develop this
hard line with it?

Speaker 1 (54:51):
By the way, it just was really clear that like
nothing was happening.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
So was this once you started acting? Is that when
you were like, okay, I have to stop start acting. Okay, gotcha?

Speaker 3 (54:59):
All right?

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Do you want your girls to be able to talk
to you about a anything? And I said it like
that on purpose? Okay, great, I really do.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
And I don't know how to make that happen.

Speaker 4 (55:12):
I would loved I would love advice on how to
make that happen, because I know that you also can't
be a great.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Parent and be their best friend.

Speaker 3 (55:20):
Yeah, and I've never a tough part.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
Right, I've never been a parent, But I for the
most part, when I look back on how I was
raised by my mom specifically, it did take a village.
But when I think about my relationship with my mom, yeah,
I am grateful. I'm just grateful that she was a
mom to me right and whatever that meant to me.
She was not my best friend, like I would I

(55:43):
call her my number one girl. I used to say
that to her all the time up until like three
years ago, because I'm like, you're not my friend, which
you're my number one girl.

Speaker 5 (55:52):
But now she number four, she's number four on the
call list.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
We got Rashida Ashley, my sister. Like people, she's she's
she kind of in the rankings. No, she's she's the one.
But I enjoy that we had this sort of like
boundaried situation going on.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Did you did you tell her everything?

Speaker 3 (56:11):
No?

Speaker 2 (56:11):
Absolutely not, absolutely not. Yeah, it's interesting. I have this
sort of friend who's a mentor in some ways, not professionally,
more of like I call her a life mentor. I
surmise our relationship that way. And her name is Reagan.
I absolutely adore her, and I used to babysit her
sons when they were two and four or at four
and six, excuse me, four and six and the four

(56:31):
year old just started college today. His parents are dropping
him off today. Jonas is going to college. I love
you kid, great kids. But she once I was confiding
in her about a dating situation and she was like, sweetie,
she's so sweet. It was a terrible situation she was
and it wasn't like I wasn't in danger or anything
like that.

Speaker 3 (56:50):
But she goes, you ever talk to your mom about
this stuff? And I go, oh, no, no, no, no
no no, no no no.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
And what I said to in that moment is I
don't want her to worry. I said that in the moment.
Is that true. I'm gonna take a moment to think
if that's exactly why. Yes, it's like I don't want
her to worry, and we don't talk about those things
now now that I'm older, I like pay my own rent.
I'm taking care of myself. My career is where it
is in a way, it's stable, and I might deal

(57:17):
with a bad situation nin dating. I have gone, okay,
I'm gonna tell her a little bit of this, and
she just shuts down.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
She like, that's what I think about.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
She does not want to hear I'm not being treated
what like she doesn't want to hear that.

Speaker 3 (57:32):
She doesn't want to hear it.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
Yeah, and then you go, oh, okay, I found the
boundary line. It was never spoken, but I found the line.
I kind of inherently in the way you were talking
sort of about your father's unfulfilled dreams for himself. You
just get a sense like I'm grasping my belly here.
I'm like, I just got a sense in my twenties.
I'm like, I don't think my mom wants to hear

(57:54):
about the fuck boy I'm dating.

Speaker 3 (57:58):
And so yeah, we.

Speaker 4 (58:02):
I wonder, you know, hearing you say that out loud,
I actually wonder if I can handle it.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
Yeah, I wonder if I can handle it. Maybe I can.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
You might not be able to tie.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
It's such a hearing and you're sweet, precious due and
I'm like a sweetheart tie And by my estimation, the
way you're so humble, we might cut that part out
up top.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
So I have to give context. Then I was asking
time he was humble.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
He says I'm the humblest and it's like me going,
I'm just the sweetest, sweet girl. But I'm like, oh,
pretty sweet goal. I'm like, I don't think anyone who
cares about me. My friends even you can see them
like they can handle it because they're my friends, but
they like get upset and I go, my mom, who
changed my diapers. I don't think she wants to hear
about the bad guy, and so it's cool. I feel

(58:51):
very close to her, and I think it's appropriately close
because that's what feels appropriate for us and hurts level
of vulnerability and her tools kit and mine. So I
think it varies and there is no one answer in
that way, and so you'll just have to know.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
But I go, sometimes you're keeping things away.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
From them, not because you're like I want secrets or
I want distance, it's just like that's not their forte.
I don't think they can handle this, and I don't
think they can hear this in the way it would
be if I was telling a girlfriend.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
I take it back, Okay, I genuinely take it back.
I think just sharing it out loud. I don't think
I want to know everything.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 4 (59:27):
I don't think I want to talk about everything with them,
because you're right, like, I honestly don't think I thought
that's true.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
It's nice to be because the notion is really nice.
Tied the notion that like, I want them to feel
I'm a safe haven and I'm there.

Speaker 3 (59:42):
For them, So you go, yeah, I want them to
be able to tell me anything.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
And then I'm like, in practice, you could hear some
really hurtful things. And how do you step in and
protect while still allowing them to have their experiences and
feel like they are allowed to have their experiences.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
It's such a fine line.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
I support you taking it back, is all I'm trying
to say right now, in a very long winded way.

Speaker 4 (01:00:03):
I had an experience since where we've gone down this
road of the two years of me carrying around a
wagon of weed.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
I had an experienced once.

Speaker 4 (01:00:12):
With my dad, who really wanted me to talk about
everything with him as a therapist, you know, where I
told him that I'd done acid, and he completely shut down.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
Just like you just said. He was like, he was like, what, yes,
he did? He not out loud in his head.

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
Exactly, absolutely, that's the thing. Nothing to say, And then
you I'm left hanging and I almost wish you would
say something.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
A little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
She just went, she just fell silent. She just got
really quiet. We were on FaceTime and it was just quiet.
And I was like, okay, well we were talking and
now you just got really really quiet. I know you're
not mad at me, per se. I remember getting my
belly button piers and I was such a sucker for Like,
I've thought about a sketch about this. It wouldn't be

(01:00:59):
about the belly button piercing thing. But I used to
be a person who was like, if a thing is free,
I'll say yes. So I went with my friend to
get her belly button pierced, and she's like, when you
come with me. And when we got there, she's like, okay,
well you get years done too, because and she's like,
I'll pay for years, and I was like, well, what's free.
I didn't come wanting a belly button piercing, nor did
I intend, but since you're paying for it, sure, I
got my belly butt pierce It was crooked, honey, it

(01:01:21):
was crooked belly. And the piercer after looks at it,
and I don't say anything because I'm in some semblance
of denial, so I don't even acknowledge that it's crooked.
I see that it's crooked. It is visibly crooked, and
the piercer goes, I don't even think I make a face,
but he's it's hey, that's just going to straighten out
as it heals.

Speaker 3 (01:01:39):
That's not how holes work, that's not And.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
I was like, yeah, okay, I knew that he was
wrong and lying, and he pierced it crookedly. He knew,
but I was just like, what is there to be
done now? I was like, I didn't pay for it.
I'm not going to demand my friend's money back.

Speaker 5 (01:01:56):
If you gain, if you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
Gain a tremendous amount of weight, that thing straight out
I know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
And so I went home and I remember like, I'm
not going to tell my mom. This is what I
do talk about with our closeness where I'm not a
secrets person in general, don't really I feel like I say,
if I say this in a public forum, someone's gonna
be like, and I found a secret about her. But
I generally don't. I'm not interesting in this way. I
don't have any juicy secrets. And so even when I
go I shot in my pants tie once on the

(01:02:22):
ten Freeway, and I remember going, I'm not telling anyone
about this.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
This is crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Have gone on stage and told that story to the
immediately told someone the next day.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
I was like, I just don't like secrets for me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
I love it. I also so I'm with you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
You do.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
Of course everyone sits in their pants as an adult.
Of course you wanted the bathroom. Of Course you didn't
intend for that to happen that way, but it happens
to the best of us. But I came home from
the piercing situation. I remember being like, I'm not going
to tell my mom. I don't ever, she's never going
to see my midri if we don't go to the
beach together. I'm not walking around with my belly out.
She'll never see this. But I literally walk into her room.

(01:03:00):
I knock on her door, walk into her room. I
did knock. Doors unlocked, but I did knock, and I
just lift my shirt up while she's like talking to me.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
We're just talking.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
I go, look what I did, and she goes, what
car and she just she has her like it's not
even the real meltdown, because I think my mom's cooler
than she even she's so conservative in ways, not politically,
but she's so conservative ways. But then like doesn't actually care.
I discover about her and like, even, yeah, she doesn't

(01:03:29):
actually care. Even when I was like, I'm getting a tattoo,
and she was like, don't. And I was like, well, Mama,
that's my grandmother, her mom, she had them. They were
tribal though, and she goes, well, they were fashionable in
her time, and I go, well, it turns out they're
fashionable then they are twenty twenty one as well. But
I just remember lifting the shirt and I can't even
do the impression of what that moment was, but I'm like,

(01:03:49):
it's a woman who's like, why this girl go in
get her belly button piers. But I also don't really
care because she could be into worse things.

Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
Sort of.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Really that's amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:03:58):
Yeah, No, it occurs to me that you must be
a great partner without like that bone in your body
of like being honest, hon ut and upfront.

Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
Thank you ty.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
You know, in my estimation, I certainly try my best
to be a good partner.

Speaker 3 (01:04:19):
I have not had the greatest luck.

Speaker 4 (01:04:22):
But I'm imagining it's probably hard to find a partner
who also shares the same trait.

Speaker 3 (01:04:29):
Yeah, I think so. I think.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
I on my way to come do this record with you,
I was drop my dog off a daycare, and then
I was walking here and again, the mind goes one
hundred miles per minute. Right, We've able to established and
I'd go, yeah, if you don't like the truth, I
don't think you would want to date me. I don't
like if you're not a person who's honest, and you
don't like people being honest, I feel like i'd be
a remarkably unenjoyable person to date. I also think that

(01:04:56):
a lot of people will say they want an honest partner,
but they don't actually, and I'm not honest, like I
hate your outfit. I'm I don't even that's sure. I
guess that's honesty, but that's not what I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
But that's just means.

Speaker 3 (01:05:08):
Such just mean, And you.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
Have too many opinions. I'm not into people with too
many opinions. By the way, I want to say that
for the record, hot ish take. Okay, great, Yeah, I'm
with you, though, I'll take that all opinions. You don't
have to own opinion about everything, pet peeve of mine.
I'll just say two one hundred miles per a minute.
Here is people who point at people's outfits, like with
their You're at lunch with a friend and they go,
look at what that person's wearing. I go, I'm sorry,
why do we care? Why do we care what the

(01:05:30):
person's wearing? And this is mean and I'm not into it. Yeah,
gigantic red flag to me, in friendship, partnership, everything, when
people will do that, I go, now, what made you
stop what you're doing to point to a stranger who
seems to be enjoying their Wednesday afternoon and go get
their weird pants?

Speaker 5 (01:05:45):
Thank you?

Speaker 4 (01:05:46):
Do you agree with me that, Like, especially in the
world of comedy, Like the biggest red flag in the
world is when the only way that somebody gets her
laughs is in that way.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
Yes, yes, it is in that way, like.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
And they kill with it gigantic red flag.

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
But I always feel like, oh what a big red
flag that.

Speaker 4 (01:06:05):
Even if they kill, it's in a way that you
don't really admire.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
Yes, like everyone's laughing and I'm looking at you like
I see.

Speaker 3 (01:06:13):
You and I don't like what I see.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
Yeah, I love this.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
I don't love this, but thank you for the kind compliment.
It's funny because I get I'm better about compliments than
I ever have been. I would say, let's say, fifteen
years ago, but I never want my listeners to feel
like I'm bringing on my dads for the day to.

Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
Gass me up and compliment with me. But compliment me.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
I can't even speak because I'm so uncomfortable. But you
guys are all so kind. You all are very very
very kind.

Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
True thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:06:39):
I think that that makes you like an ideal partner
and eventual parent.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
I was gonna say, I can't wait to be a parent.
I can because I have a puppy and that has
been so much work. And I am hearing all of
my dads for the day talk about parenting, and those
are just the dads. I'm a little like, that's that's
the dads, and I would like to carry a child
for nine months in theory. I say that right now,

(01:07:07):
we'll see some people like pregnancy, some people hate it. Anyway, Ty,
you've been an amazing dad for the day. You've been open.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
I appreciate it.

Speaker 5 (01:07:18):
My Zoom, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:07:20):
Zoom daughter.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
The people wouldn't have ever known we were on Zoom
if you hadn't just I'm kidding.

Speaker 3 (01:07:25):
I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
I end every episode asking my dad for the day
for some advice. Okay, I have a piece, it's coming
to me off the top of my head. So kind
of what I do is I'll every once in a
while come with it ready made.

Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
And I kind of have coined the term.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
I've coined it, meaning I'm decided I've coined it in
the age of the Internet, and you can say anything.
Who's going to assume me if I say I coined
this term, because maybe someone else came up with it
right now, someone's.

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
Right coin.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
Who coined I've coined in my opinion, dad vice. I'm
gonna call this segment dad Vice. Okay, all right, TM trademark. Okay,
So I kind of come in something ready made. This
is going on in my life. Sometimes I'll listen to
a dad talk and I go, oh, he'll be great
for this. Sometimes I listen to a dad talk and
I go, he'll be way out of his depths on

(01:08:21):
this one, and I can't wait to hear him try
to be a dad.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
I'm gonna go without a dad my death, but I
don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:08:27):
Okay. So in dating, I'm your daughter.

Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
Okay, I'm your third daughter, your oldest you just found
out an hour ago.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
Oh's exciting. This is all very exciting changing.

Speaker 3 (01:08:40):
Remember those years when you were smoking weed?

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
Yeah, okay, tis out exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:08:49):
Smoking weed. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
So in dating, I am trying to discern whether you
give someone a second date first if the first date
is not bad dad, Okay, And I'm dating men.

Speaker 3 (01:09:03):
I'm dating men and say the first date is.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
Like, meh, it's not bad your dad. My grandfather was
a family therapist. And they say that if you have
butterflies on a first date, that's such actually a trauma response.
It's not like a gool good I really like this person.
I don't know how much I agree with that school
of thought. I would have to do more of my
own research. Yes, I spend too much time on the internet.

(01:09:26):
There's a lot of insta therapy going on. I don't
know how many of these people are licensed, but they
posture in.

Speaker 3 (01:09:32):
Such a way that I believe them right right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
But they say those butterflies, that's actually a trauma response.
And I don't know how much I agree with that,
but I'm just gonna throw it out there for you
in case it's helpful. You might throw it out, you
might toss it back and burn it. But if I
am on a first date and I find it to
be meh, historically, I would go I don't want to
go on a second day with this person. They're totally fine,

(01:09:56):
but I feel nothing towards them. I can't imagine a
second date. Make me go, you know what? Actually my
question is, Dad, should I be approaching dating that way?
Should I be giving guys second dates even if on
the first one, I'm like, fine, Fine, you weren't terrible
and you weren't amazing. Sure you're asking me out again,

(01:10:17):
I'll go?

Speaker 3 (01:10:17):
Or should I go?

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:10:19):
I trust my gut, this probably isn't going anywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Well.

Speaker 4 (01:10:22):
First of all, I go, I'm just glad you came
to meet with us. You know that I want you
to be able to come to me about anything anything. Secondly,
is this based in real life outside of this question? Yes, okay,

(01:10:43):
I mean my instinct is no, because I feel like
if you didn't come away from this, I mean I
could be totally wrong, but my instinct if you didn't
come away from this first date with one of like
two things, right, like one being just a physical draw
to the person, which isn't always you know, the first

(01:11:04):
thing that happens obviously, but the other one would be
coming away like really admiring.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
Them as a person.

Speaker 4 (01:11:12):
Like like, well, okay, I'm not attracted to them necessarily,
but I really admired them, like I really like the
way they.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
Think, or and is really is really important by the
way I think.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
So Okay, I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:11:24):
That's a good question, but I would say, if you
were meh about the date, a part of me feels
like the reason to do a second you know, there's
obviously a third option. Maybe the third option is somebody
who you trusts really really well, like a lot is

(01:11:44):
like I know you so well, like this is your mom,
or you know.

Speaker 1 (01:11:49):
Somebody on the call list, sure, sure, top four, top four.

Speaker 4 (01:11:53):
Right, and they know this person equally well and is like,
trust me, you got to get a onemore shot.

Speaker 5 (01:12:01):
Ah, that might be.

Speaker 1 (01:12:03):
That might be the third door.

Speaker 4 (01:12:05):
Okay, but I would say to me, right or wrong,
I would say, if it wasn't one of those first
two categories, or maybe you weren't attracted to them, but
they really made you laugh, or they had some like
opinions that really surprised you in or it's not opinions
even but just thoughts that that really surprised you and

(01:12:25):
you thought, like their original thinker to your mind, or something.

Speaker 1 (01:12:29):
Mm hmm, then I would I would say no, that
would be my thought.

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
That's really helpful, Dad, that's really really helpful.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
You bad daughter because.

Speaker 3 (01:12:40):
You're revert to your daughter.

Speaker 5 (01:12:41):
Daughter daughter, daughter.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
No, you always say great job son. You never go
great job daughter.

Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
Wow, you're right.

Speaker 3 (01:12:49):
Yeah, what is that about?

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
God? I say great job son to my girls. Yeah,
great job son.

Speaker 2 (01:12:57):
I'm proud of your son. Think about it in a movie.
Think about in a movie. You'll go, I'm proud of
your son.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
You're so right, proud of your daughter.

Speaker 5 (01:13:03):
Huh.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
Too many syllables and daughter and that was the patriarchy's fault.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
Dot dot that sucks. Should son?

Speaker 2 (01:13:14):
If son is son is the boy child? Should San
be daughter? It should be son?

Speaker 3 (01:13:20):
And San.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
I'm proud of you Sam and San's daughter. San kind
of short for Sandy.

Speaker 3 (01:13:24):
I don't know. We're onto something. I think we're onto something.

Speaker 2 (01:13:28):
That's such great advice. Dad, You've been an incredible dad
for the day. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
You've been an incredible daughter for the day. Ago You're awesome.
You really are. You are as thoughtful as you are hilarious.

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
Thank you of taking that to heart. You're incredibly kind.
I really appreciate that. I'm going to let that sink in.
I will not deflect on that note. I'm gonna go
I won't even try to say anything uh cheeky at
the end, I'm actually I want to try a thing
with my hands are literally up right. Just receive it.
Just receive it. Thank you, Ty, You're I'm so grateful

(01:14:04):
that you did this. It means a lot to.

Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
Thank really fun.

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
Thanks Dad is a headgum podcast created and hosted by
me Igo Odem. This show is engineered by Rochelle Chen
and Anya Kanovskaya and edited by Rochelle Chen with executive
producer Emma Foley.

Speaker 3 (01:14:22):
Katie Moose is our VP of Content at Headgum.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
Thanks to Jason Matheni for our show art and Faris
Monshi for our theme song. For more podcasts by Headgum,
visit headgum dot com or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, and maybe,
just maybe we'll read it on a future episode

Speaker 3 (01:14:45):
That was a hit Gum podcast

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