September 9, 2025 • 37 mins
Lust is one of the most hidden sins, yet one of the most destructive. Left in the dark, it breeds shame, secrecy, and brokenness. But when exposed to the light of Christ, there is hope, healing, and freedom. Join host Jon Delger, the Multiplication Pastor and Peace Church, and Logan Bailey, the Family Pastor at Peace, as we open Scripture, face this struggle honestly, and discover how the gospel meets us in our weakness.
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(00:08):
Welcome to That's a Good Question, a podcast where we
answer questions about the Christian faith in plain
language. If you or someone you know has
questions, please submit them toPeace Church dot CC slash
questions. Well, hey everyone, I'm John.
Great to have you with us. I'm that's a good question.
(00:29):
The place for answer questions about the Christian faith in
plain language here today with Logan.
Hello Pastor Logan, family pastor here at Peace Church.
Great to have you man. Good to be here Logan joining us
as the Co host for next several episodes.
Excited to get to have some great conversations.
If you're new and joining us, this is season 4.
Wow, isn't that crazy. Season 4 if that's a good
(00:50):
question, answered lots of amazing questions.
What a run it has been. It has been how many have we
redone? How like how many?
Oh, we don't tell people that. No, no, no, not reshot, but
like, I just wonder what questions?
What questions? How many times did I give a bad?
Answer and we started over. Thanks, John.
No, I I just am curious, like what questions have come up like
(01:13):
multiple times. Oh man, yeah.
Lots of them, yeah, that's the thing.
So if you're just joining us, then yeah.
And if you've got questions, we love to hear them.
So please send them in via the link.
And also be sure to check back and look at previous episodes to
see where we've answered those questions before.
And don't hesitate to ask, because even if we have done an
episode on something, there's always a cool nuance to give a
(01:34):
topic and a different angle to think of it and so.
Yeah, I love to get them more than more than once.
And that also helps me know how many people are asking that
question, whether we should do another episode on that question
or answer it in a little bit different.
Way the last episode we that I was a part of, we talked about
submission and angels and like there is just like so many
things like we never we never finished any of the top of the
(01:55):
conversations. It's like yeah, yeah, these are
huge things. We said some good stuff and then
we kind of had to move on for the next topic.
It's like you never totally finish totally talking all of it
so. Which Speaking of.
So for this season, we're actually going to kick off in a
little bit different format. We're going to we've gotten lots
of questions on a couple of different topics.
So I've tried to group them together.
So we're going to do a three-part series called Sins We
(02:17):
Keep in the Dark. Should be a lot of fun.
So season 4 is the best yet. That's what I'm saying the.
Best season? Yet, and we're starting it off
with a heavy hitter. Topic we sure are.
We sure are. You know, we like to laugh and
joke a lot on this show, but this episode might be a little
bit more on the serious side, just a little bit.
So sins we keep in the dark and today's topic is going to be
(02:40):
lust. So I know some people are just
like, oh, now I don't want to, Idon't want to listen anymore.
It's such a hard topic. And it is it's it's tough one to
talk about. Some people might have that
reaction. Other people I think are
thinking because they've been asking this question is yes,
please, let's talk about this. Please help me.
How do I deal with this in my life?
I think it's such an obvious sinthat we either bringing out into
(03:03):
the light and go to war against it, as good Christian men and
women should, or we intentionally do avoid it
because that's why it's in the dark is because we it's so
obviously something that is stifling our sanctification and
our our walking with Christ thatyou would either deal with it or
you don't. There really is no middle ground
(03:25):
when it comes to this type of right.
Topic and as we talked about it today, our goal is going to be
to not make it all about shame, just feeling bad about it
because that's that's only that's only kind of a starting
place. I mean, we do have to recognize
our sin and feel bad about it, but that's only the starting
place. That's why you put stuff in the
dark too, right? Right.
But not to just not to just sit and talk about how ashamed we
should feel, but to actually talk about how to deal with it
(03:47):
and aim for freedom. How do we, how do we in Christ
find freedom from this sin? So that's going to be the goal
of the conversation. So we've got a main verse we're
going to use as we talk about this topic today comes from
Matthew chapter 5. Jesus's words.
You have heard that it was said you shall not commit adultery.
But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with
(04:08):
lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in
his heart. If your right eye causes you to
sin, tear it out and throw it away.
It's better for you to lose one of your members than your whole
body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes
you to sin, cut it off and throwit away, for it is better that
you lose one of your members than that your whole body go
into hell. So we'll be focusing on the
(04:28):
first part of that. But good to hear the whole
paragraph get a sense of the context.
So let's just start there and talk about real quickly.
What is lust? What does the Bible say lust is?
How do we define? Look at me.
You're the hang on, man. You're here with all the
answers. Yeah, I actually love the the
way that Jesus often you said UPS the ante, but also like
(04:50):
simplifies it with with metaphors and things.
And he he he basically says whenhe's talking about lust, he says
look at a woman with lust, adultery.
Like it's almost like lust equals adultery.
Trying to get back to like the 10 commandments language, which
I think you can kind of go to two, two of the 10.
You can go to you shall not commit adultery.
(05:10):
You can also go to Exodus 20, verse 17.
You shall not covet your neighbor's house.
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
And I think adultery has more todo with like the sexual side of
things versus there is a, there is a realm of coveting that
isn't sexual in nature. It's just why I want that stuff
or I want, sure. But certainly, I guess there's
(05:33):
evidence there that you never just commit one sin, you know,
like sin is comprehensive and isaffecting more than just one
part of you. There's like that the adultery
side of it and the well, that's not even your, you don't have a
right to even be thinking of herin that way.
And so there's and then are you truly loving your neighbor in
that way? It's like there's there's always
(05:54):
compounding. There's a compounding nature to
the sinfulness of sin. Yeah, yeah, totally.
So if we had to really like makeit super concrete, it might, it
might feel weird to get really kind.
Of do you have just? Say you got something, you know,
I didn't have something specificprepared, but I'll take a shot
(06:14):
at it. So you know, lust specifically,
you know, when does when does looking at someone or thinking
about someone across the line And the lust I guess is the
question I'm asking. And I think, and I think it's
like when you start visualizing or desiring a thing that is
outside of God's design, right, is that.
(06:37):
I've heard common even talking to my father recently about
about this and he gave the phrase second glance.
You know, that's where the sin is found is in the second
glance. And sure, actually wrote down
just in my notes of preparing for this.
There's a difference between recognizing beauty and lusting,
and that difference is found in whether you take that second
(06:57):
glance or not. Sure, yeah.
And that's or. Later when you know how your
processes, yeah, if your mind even without looking, if your
mind returns to that. Yeah.
And that's like such AI don't want to say crass, but like
simplified version of trying to describe it, but.
Yeah. So I mean, even just to get
super concrete, I mean, so visualizing sexual acts or
(07:21):
thinking, feeling like, oh, I would really desire that to
somebody who's not your spouse. You can look at your spouse and
have those thoughts. You're married.
I think that goes back to the right question, like what you
can think of your sexual nature as something evil and to be
rejected. And that we wouldn't, we
(07:42):
wouldn't view our sexual nature that way.
It's built in intentionally by the creator.
Like that's how we're designed as human beings.
But there's a rightful place forthat.
There's a reason that sex is also called, in some contexts,
the marital act. Yeah.
Like it's a it's an it's an action that a person can take
(08:02):
with another person that is meant to be right, like done in
the context of marriage. And then there's a reason that
it intrinsically like it bear's fruit, which is life.
So that's we're dealing with a very powerful action that we can
take if the ramification of it is human life.
(08:23):
And there we we should not ever.And I think our culture is this
is maybe the most descriptive way to explain how our culture
is just totally bankrupt when itcomes to viewing sex and
marriage. We, we cannot as Christians view
sex apart from children or marriage apart from children.
(08:45):
Like there's something that those marriage, sex and
children, they have to do with each other by definition, and we
can't view them apart from each other.
I just thought of a lightning round question we're gonna have
to come back to. Oh my gosh.
OK. Our What's the word for them?
What? Contraceptives.
Oh yeah, our. Contraceptives OK for
Christians? There's.
(09:05):
A. There's a question.
OK, so yeah, there's another. Not right now another.
Example of how we're fully talk talk exhaust I.
Always say this in so many different directions.
So just one more. I'm I'm just clarifying the
definition. So where does it cross from
temptation into sin? You know, so we said we're kind
of, you know, like, you know, inour world, you're going to, you
(09:28):
know, even even, you know, Jesussays we're going to face
temptation, but you got to overcome temptation.
So like, when did where is that line?
You know, because like you're watching television and an
inappropriate commercial or whatever comes across the
screen. Where does that go from?
I'm tempted to to loss to actually I've committed the same
(09:49):
loss. Yeah.
And our culture is so pornographic, right, That that's
why this is a very practical topic.
It's because there's no one thatcan really escape asking that
question if they're thinking about it.
Yeah. And just so my quick thought is
that it's, it's a little, it's alittle unclear, I think how to,
(10:10):
how to exactly describe that. But I think it's, you know, do
you, are you, do you turn away and be like, no, I'm not going
to look at that and think about that.
Or do you sit there and dwell onit and absorb it?
I think that's kind of the, you know, you've got, so you've got
a choice to make. I think it's important just to
distinguish between actually falling into the sin and just
being tempted because we will face temptation all the time.
Like you said, we live in a basically pornographic world
(10:31):
where this this stuff is everywhere.
So you're going to be tempted. The question is, do you give in?
So and you know, I never want todefine the the thing in such a
way that we can never have any kind of victory.
So you can face temptation, livein this world, and yet have
victory over over the sin there's.
So much more to say, but, and we'll hopefully say some of it
(10:52):
still, but there's few things that I think is kneecapping
Christian men more than a pornography addiction that
they're ashamed to talk about. Yeah.
And so you bringing up the fact there can be victory in this, I
think is huge. I think the fact that this is
titled sins we keep in the dark is huge because, yeah, we keep
that in the dark. Sin dies in the light.
(11:13):
You know, like you have to bringit up.
It's Satan has convinced you it's best to keep it in the
dark. You're better for it.
And those are just all lies. Absolutely.
So what are some some lies, someeasily misconceived ideas that
we have about lust? Some I think of as well.
One one that comes to me is justis that is this only a men's
(11:34):
problem? Right.
Yeah, I said men. I, I'm at our church on the
family pastor. I oversee men's ministry and
women's ministry. And we have a ministry program
for both women and one for men that are geared towards women
and geared towards men and trying to address issues that
might be more specific to them in a way that might specifically
(11:55):
help them better. But it's it's certainly sexual
sin is something that both men and women, right.
Deal with. Certainly.
Yeah. Right.
Pornography, definitely men ended up on the majority side of
that. But it's true that both genders
struggle with. Yes.
Right. Is that fair to say?
Yeah. All right, so like we've said,
there's so much we can talk about about this topic, but
let's kind of start at least thinking about.
(12:16):
I think people listening are thinking, OK, I, you know, I
know what this is and I strugglewith it.
I want to know how to, how to win, how by God's grace through
Christ, through the power of theHoly Spirit, can I have some
victory. And I think the first thing that
the first question we should maybe answer practically is
this, why is just trying harder not enough?
(12:38):
Yeah, because some people will say, well, you just got to try
harder. It's just a, it's just a will
self-discipline kind of thing. Why is that not really the
complete answer? Yeah, it's fascinating how we
could talk about a lot of theoretical things and talk
about why the gospel is enough and and then but someone might
(13:02):
say, look, we'll get practical and get more tangible and then
we can move into more like, well, here you can do this and
this, but like the gospel never we never move away from our need
of the gospel. I'm just thinking of like what
you're describing as self righteousness.
Sure, which is anti gospel. If, if the gospel is that we can
have the righteousness, righteousness of Christ and be
LED in his righteousness, the reason that you can't just try
(13:25):
harder is because inherently what that means is you saying
push Jesus even further away andjust do things yourself even
more. And the reason why that doesn't
work is the exact reason why thegood news is good news is
because we are empowered by the Holy Spirit, not empowered just
by our own right self will and self righteousness and.
(13:47):
Right. So the big picture theological
answer is that we are, we have asinful nature.
And so we are. I mean, the Bible says that
we're enslaved to sin. Yeah.
So why not? So we need Jesus.
Why not just try harder and pushharder?
Because, well, your sinful nature is going to win that
fight. Your sinful nature is going to
win that fight. Yeah, you can't just try harder
on your own. You need the Lord.
(14:09):
I think you also need Christian community.
I think there's also, there's plenty of things that you can
think about. I mean just the addictive nature
of. Pornography, especially if
there's addiction in your life, then trying harder is not.
Is it just it's going to be? Fruit, I mean, it's similar
right to saying just try harder to a drug addict or or an
alcoholic or something like that.
That's called being exhausted quickly.
(14:29):
Yeah, you're going to get exhausted really fast.
So there's people listening to us even say why don't you just
try harder? And they're like, oh, I know
that's impossible, right? I'd love some good news.
And so if we then flip the question a little bit from why
not just try harder to but trying to keep the tangible
language like, OK, so how do I practically seek the empowerment
(14:49):
of the Holy Spirit to overcome, Yeah, either addiction or just
how do I respond in moments where I experience, Yeah, a
lustful thought. Yeah.
So I think we could probably both share from our own
experience lots of different things that have been helpful.
Things have been less helpful. I'll just I'll share.
I think a basic framework for Christians fighting sin is that
(15:12):
when you fall into sin, you go through the practice that that
Jesus teaches us to confess yoursin, to repent of your sin and
to I pray for the Lord to continue to help you.
And I think it's really helpful.I found it really helpful to do
that with other brothers. So often that will be referred
to as like an accountability partner or a small group or
something like that. So having a group of guys that
you can say, hey guys, I fell into sin.
(15:34):
This is how I am so sorry beforeyou guys and before the Lord and
Lord please help me. There is so much shame and guilt
that someone can feel with sexual sin.
And the Bible describes sexual sin as unique because it's, you
know, it's, I think Paul says it's a sin against yourself in
(15:56):
some ways. And so there's such it's.
Also, the analogy that is used throughout the Bible for
idolatry, adultery and idolatry are really connected.
So there's a, you know, sexual intimacy and the heart are very
connected. Yeah.
I just I want to affirm what yousaid.
I can think of few things as powerful as confession, like
(16:19):
moments in my life where I've pulled someone aside and confess
sin, or moments where another brother has come to me and
confess sin, which definitely keep it same gender, like men to
men, unless you're like confessing to a spouse.
I can think of few things as powerful in my my life as
moments of confession. Yeah, yeah.
That's what when I yeah, especially in my my teens and
(16:42):
20s when this was, you know, a big, a big struggle, a big
challenge of this a time of unique challenge for most men
against lust. I had a great group of brothers,
same age guys. We got together once a week.
We're able to pray for each other, encourage each other,
read scripture together, confess.
We had a text thread that we would text confession to each
(17:04):
other. We did a unique thing that this
is maybe we could laugh at this.And this would probably go into
the category of, you know, we were really trying to exert our
wills and our self-discipline, which by the way, there's, I
mean, you want to exert all the tools you have, right?
Self-discipline is a is, is a good thing.
It's a God-given gift and we need to use it to fight against
sin. But we would do we would have
this thing that when, when we would fall into sin, we would
(17:24):
actually text each other and andsay it.
And then we all had to run a mile.
I love that. That's awesome.
I don't know how popular that that plan was, but.
Well, just trying to natural consequences, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, right. It was, yeah, yeah.
It was just trying to bring up like, OK, I've confessed and
that means something so that it wasn't just like.
There is something about living in a fallen world where the good
(17:49):
things that God has designed, like our sexual natures can be
come twisted in a way where whenyou do feel lustful desire,
you're almost feel yourself likein a fog.
You're not thinking rightly. Like you look back sometimes and
you're like, I was not sober minded, you know, like there's
something that was just and that's that's temptation.
(18:10):
Temptation is a liar. And you can, like, look back in
moments where you were in temptation and you think I
didn't notice in the moment. But now looking back, I wasn't
like there was a war, spiritual war going on.
Oh yeah. And the lies that your mind
starts to believe are. Incredible.
Yeah. So the I think that that is a
fun way to 1 making a, an agreement amongst each other.
(18:34):
It's like we will share. Yeah, you know, we will share
and like I'm expecting you to share with me and you should
expect that I'll share with you.That type of brotherhood is
awesome. And you got to make I'll, I'll,
I'll add to you know, you got tomake it cross centered too.
It can't be just I confess and we're all going to run.
It's got to be also I confess. I recognize that I've sinned
(18:56):
before the Lord. I recognize that Jesus's blood
covers my sin. Thank you Lord, and fill me with
Your spirit and help me to overcome sin in the future.
That precision is helpful, but Ijust love the mile on top of it.
It's just because, yeah, well, Iwant to help myself think more
sober mindedly, so I'm going to do this physical action as well
to kind of hammer that nail. Down, I think maybe it came out
(19:17):
of this, but I remember back, you know, in high school and
football and stuff, it was, you know, if you did something
wrong, you had to take a run to the Wisdom Tree is what we
called it. There was there was a tree.
Yeah, there's a tree out not notterribly far from the football
practice field. And if if you messed up, Coach
said, take a trip to the Wisdom Tree, you had to run out and run
back. Yeah.
And so it's just that, you know,you had to do something that
made you think for a little bit about what you did wrong and
(19:39):
learn from your. Mistakes I say this in marital
counseling too, like you don't prepare for you to be at your
best. You prepare for you to be at
your worst. And sometimes especially your
spouses, you're both at your worst.
And so you prepare for seasons like that.
But when it comes to personal, you know, your sanctification
journey, the Lord, like the HolySpirit has helped all of us like
(20:03):
just listeners can think personally, but also like we
could we all can think personally.
The Lord's identified sins in your life like sanctification
has done a step at a time and he's he's brought to your heart
what he wants you to work on next.
And so I mean go to war against those things that he's brought
up into your mind. And so creative things like that
I think are awesome. We have such Christian freedom
in how we go to war against our sin.
(20:25):
Yeah. You know.
And confession, but confession is just a beautiful part of
that. I think especially when it comes
to things like lust and pornography.
I, I think that that is one of the quickest lies that the enemy
will give you in your heart is it's you don't have to share
this. It's like, OK, maybe you don't,
but when I first started confessing when I was in
(20:49):
college, my pornography addiction to my friends, I
became in I became in love with living in the light.
I was like, Oh my gosh, this is what the sunlight feels like.
I was taking any chance I could get to confess my sins.
That felt like for a season, I was able to speak in our
school's Chapel around that season of my life.
And I remember having the thought like, oh, I'm going to
(21:10):
tell everyone that I was addicted to porn.
I was so excited to do it. And then there were guys that
came up to me and they were justlike in tears saying thank you
for mentioning that. And in a recent sermon that I
gave, I, I felt like led to mention it too, just cause of,
for a pastor to share in a sermon, there's men in the room
that might have that shame of thinking I'm the only one
(21:30):
struggling with this. Or like what you brought up
earlier, it's like, I think I can fight this on my own.
That's such a lie. And you can't but just to have
to have A to, for a community topractice confession better than
we need to step up and then practice confession more.
And I mean, I just hope anyone listening that has felt that lie
(21:53):
recently, felt the Holy Spirit tugging on them to share and
they don't, to just be reminded of something true, which is
there's something so beautiful and powerful about confession.
Yeah, totally. And here's a verse I want to
just, I want to share just that you can reflect on as well.
Related to that, this first John19 if we confess our sins, He is
(22:13):
faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from
all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we
make him a liar and his word is not in US.
So yeah, I think, I think the Bible's pretty clear about how
important that confession step is. 11 More quick, practical
thing. I want to ask you because you
brought up the idea of confessing to your spouse.
Let's talk about that real quick.
(22:34):
There's so much, man, I feel like we're going to run out of
time quickly here. But should your spouse be your
accountability partner? Yeah.
As far as like an accountabilitypartner, no, I'd advise against
it. But certainly you should confess
your sins to your spouse. Right, right.
Your sin. Yeah, if you're married, your
sin is against the Lord first and foremost, but it is against
your spouse. You have sinned against them.
(22:55):
So confessing to them and apologizing to them is an
important step. And yeah, I think your, your
spouse can't be the because because it's a sin against them.
It is an emotional load for themto receive.
You know, it hurts them. So they can't take on the the
primary role. I think of being like an
accountability partner. That's where you need a brother
if you're a man or a sister if you're a woman.
(23:17):
So much to say, but I, I, I'll get personal when I shared with
my and there's so much more to the story that God's hand was
in. But when I when I shared with
Rachel, who was my fiance at thetime, that pornography was a
part of my life and something I was wanting to go to war
against, I I've never seen such pain that I've caused someone
(23:41):
ever. And so I felt like the I, I, I
think I've said it before, like I felt like such a shell of a
man. Like just, I've never felt more
weak in my life. It's similar to now that I have
kids. Like last night I held my son
who was like having a hard time breathing because of a coffee.
Had like, I feel like such a weak man right now.
(24:04):
Like I can't do anything about this.
So and I feel awful, you know? And so like that moment where I
confess that sin to my soon to be spouse, my fiance at the
time, that confession was so powerful in my life because it
helps me think soberly about Oh my gosh, my sin hurts more than
just me. And then likewise on the other
(24:25):
end of that. And the Lord used that season of
my life in incredible ways to just thinking of we were more
than conquerors, right? Like victory and over sin, but
that weak moment was a positive moment for me to think clearly
and then for her to come back and forgive me.
I have never felt more like a man, but more of a man more
(24:45):
capable and able and excited to be the type of man that I'm
called to be. So I, I just confession doesn't
isn't all sunshine, sunshine andrainbows as far as it's not
necessarily pleasant to own it and confess your sins.
And yet there's something so beautiful about walking in the
light and being the truth and not letting skeletons in the
(25:07):
closet, you know, keep a chain around your neck.
Right, Amen, Amen. That's beautiful.
What I real quickly what what isthe name of the ministry that we
do? So for men specifically, we have
a pro which is very targeted. Our our women's ministry for
sexual sin is more broad and hasa lot more applications to it.
(25:31):
But the men's ministry specifically is for porn
addiction and it is called the conquer series.
So the Conquer series, we call it the our conquerors group and
it's, I believe 14 different 14 weeks going through a program,
the conquer series and pretty early on, or maybe it's in the
middle, but it does include likethere has to be confession to
(25:53):
your spouse. So I think it's interesting that
we've kind of highlighted that because they do too as something
that is profoundly important. Yeah.
So for those who are listening who are part of Peace Church,
that's something that we do at the church.
Feel free to reach out and inquire about that.
If you're not part of Peace Church, there are resources
online. There are.
You know that those books and resources are available in other
(26:14):
places. We're not the only church that
does that. So, so check that out.
That's a valuable resource. No, I have heard of the just
thinking of sexual sin as this against your own body and also
how when you're married you are one flesh.
Few things are as painful to both people than sexual sin.
And I've heard the analogy of like it's like stabbing your
(26:37):
spouse with a knife, but that knife is has another blade
facing you and you're just like stabbing each other.
It's so painful and so. It's a brutal image.
We need to think soberly about this because there's it's, it's
just again, kneecapping men and women in their spiritual lives
and syncification because of theshame holding us back.
(26:57):
And it, it hurts. It's it is sin and sin kills and
it's hurting our marriages and we need to get serious.
About it yeah, real quickly. Let's let's let's and I want to
end on on the gospel note and then hit lightning round.
So real quick gospel note. I just want to say for those who
we all need to hear it, lust is not the unforgivable sin.
(27:20):
Even adultery is not the unforgivable sin.
Jesus's blood can cover any sin,and for those who love the Lord
and have salvation in and through Jesus have been covered
in the blood of Jesus. God calls us to continually
repent and to try to conquer oursin.
So he forgives us, which is great news, and he gives us the
(27:41):
Spirit and tries to lead us intoa life that is more conformed
to. Jesus doesn't leave us to just
stay in our sin. Praise God.
All right, here we go, lightninground Logan.
Can married people still? Am I the only one answering the
lightning round questions? I can ask you some right?
Is lust always a? Sin I guess.
Is lust always a sin, even if it's fleeting?
(28:01):
Is that the question? No, I'm just going to go.
No, I, I because I feel like we already answered that, right.
So I was going to ask, can married people still struggle
with lust? Yeah. 100%.
And I feel like we did kind of answer that, but I was going to
maybe go the next step and say can married this is.
Can you lust? Us through your stuff.
Well, no, I was going to say because I people do ask this
question from time to time, eventhough the answer might seem
clear to us. Is it OK for married people to
(28:24):
watch pornography? As part of what you've.
Never had anybody ask you that, no.
Oh yeah, like thinking this might be helpful if.
We're doing this to help us as amarried couple.
Yeah, not helping you. It's the same reason my social
media is making us all more depressed.
Sure, not good. I mean, that's just one part of
it, but just on the face of it, that would be not helpful.
(28:47):
No, I've had people ask me that.They said, well, you know, we're
married and we're doing it to help us because so doesn't that
make it OK? And the answer is no.
Some of these we've already answered.
So here's here's 1. You get to answer this one.
I'm just kidding. What is this is an awkward one.
Which one? Is masturbation a sin?
Yeah, if, if what you mean by masturbation is I'm alone.
(29:08):
I'm by myself, I'm entertaining.Thoughts.
So that's the thing. Is again that selfish?
So when I yeah. So credit to my to my parents
for this, they we read a book together when I was a young man
and and, you know, going throughpuberty and all those kind of
things, you got to talk to kids about this kind of stuff.
But I remember that book actually was a very popular book
at the time. And it actually said that the
(29:30):
answer was was no, this isn't sin.
It's OK. But it what it didn't clarify is
that's possibly true if you can separate it from lust.
So I like what I hear you sayingis that it's not really is it
really possible to do that thingwithout lust?
Probably not. I mean if.
You get really crass, which I guess we're already here.
(29:52):
We've been talking about sex, but I mean there's a such a
thing as nocturnal emission, which is like that's not
masturbation, but your body did the thing while you're and that
might come about from like a lustful dreamer might not.
But I guess you are putting the kind of focus down on, well, are
(30:13):
you selfishly lusting after you know well?
That's I think that's what it comes down to, right agree.
So this is the question. So the question is about this
physical thing, this self stimulation, whatever.
I'm just avoiding the word now, but you know, you know, is that
physical action inherently evil?Maybe not, but the if typically
(30:36):
it means you're using lust in your brain to to to do that
thing. So yeah, that's that's sin.
I think that's a helpful just quick.
This is lightning round, after all.
We're not very fast here. I think the tough question for.
Lightning round, but I kind of focusing on well, are you
lusting? That kind of answers the
question very quick. That's good.
Totally Yep. Let me ask the next question.
Dang it. OK, what's the difference?
(30:58):
What's the difference between porn and just looking too long?
Well, pornography would be wouldinvolve, I think it involves how
much you see is usually what I would think of as the definition
of that. I guess in our country there's
even been Supreme Court debate about what the definition is,
but wow, right. I mean the the difference
between if you're asking what isthe difference between
(31:18):
pornography and waiting too longor looking too long, you're
talking about how well clothed the person is.
But we've already said, I think the real question isn't about
what's difference between pornography and looking too
long, but what's difference between lust and looking too
long. And that's something we we
talked about already, right? The the second glance or the
beginning to visualize or desirea sexual interaction with
somebody who's not your spouse. Yeah, man, yeah.
(31:39):
We, we, we mainly just opened upa lot of cans of worms.
We didn't really. We sure did.
Land the plane on too many things.
Let's land the plane on this. Again, feel free to send in lots
of questions about this and we'll have to do another episode
someday in the future, but we'llwrap it up for today.
Let's end on this one book that you think would be helpful for
people on the topic. I'll, I'll go first.
(32:00):
I'll go first so you can think about it.
The book that was most helpful to me on this, and it actually
wasn't at all about sexual sin. It was just about sin in
general. So this is maybe not going to be
the one for most people. But John Owen, the mortification
of sin, so he's a Puritan 400 years ago writing a book just
about killing sin. He spends an entire book.
It's a short book, but but a deep and it's not an easy read,
(32:22):
but he spends the entire book expositing Romans 813, which
basically says you've got to kill sin before it kills you.
That's the classic. Line Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which is what I, when I said in this episode said go to war
against sin, that's like anotherway of saying that exact idea is
you need to go to war against it.
That is sanctification. That's in the Holy Spirit helps
you in that. That isn't self righteousness.
(32:42):
I read that book at 19 or 20 andI just thought it was super,
super helpful, impactful. So, so then my, I guess my mind
right now goes to like, what have we?
We've opened a lot of cans of worms.
So we're not going to be able to, I can't wrap up everything
just as I want to be able to, but I'm trying to think of what,
what did we bring up that would be helpful to go back to?
And I think for single men and women wrestling with these
(33:07):
things, because when you're, I mean, first Corinthians 7
literally says like, have sex. That's how you fight, right?
Don't maybe pause for times of prayer, but come together again
so that Satan may not tempt you.It's like, Oh my gosh, like that
act and and marriage is in renewing your covenant in a
(33:28):
sense, like giving yourself overis how you fight sin in a way,
but single people don't have that to do.
You don't have a, you're. Cheating.
Right now you're preaching. You're supposed to be answering.
Just what is one book recommendation?
Logan or this is the conclusion of the episode, but I'm just
saying that my, we've said a lotabout married people.
They have avenues in that that single people don't.
(33:51):
They're single. I guess that's the one thing
where my I'm thinking we want to, I want to say one more thing
about that, I guess just becausefor the man or woman in in the
20s that are like, I'm not married and I need something
else here. So I think it's just it's
reassuring to know one that we can overcome this through the
(34:11):
Holy Spirit's power. And you've, you've said that
very well, we can overcome this.And just to know that the Bible
is very clear in when it comes to our sexual nature, we only
have two options. And it's not necessarily
singleness or marriage. Like you can get a little more
(34:33):
precise with it. It's it's faithfulness in
marriage and it's faithfulness in pursuing the Lord.
So really pursue choices are God's way or not God's way.
Yeah, yeah, I OK. Yeah, I guess we're talking
about selfishness and selflessness kind of being at
the heart of these these topics here.
(34:53):
And just be mindful where your focus is and know that Lord's
going to help you readjust your focus if you notice it's not
aligned with his will. And this has to do with more
than just lost, but especially lost like when we catch
ourselves in in sin. What do you do?
Well, as a Christian, you repentand then get on with following
(35:14):
the Lord again, and that's what he wants you to do.
And so just consider, Yep, that was a selfish thought and, and
go to the Lord in prayer, maybe even confess it to a brother or
a sister and repent and then move on.
That's where we have that freedom and that power in the
gospel to get get back to livingand not let Satan shame us and
(35:36):
stifle our sanctification with that shame.
But we can give that guilt to the Lord.
Yeah, and acknowledge it and even like a prayer that is
helpful that I I would has is still helpful to me, but
especially when I wasn't marriedwas Lord, thank you for the
beauty and your creation. Any further entertaining of that
(35:57):
thought would be sinful because I have no right.
And then try to refocus your mind on on what the Lord does
want you to focus on. Yeah, yeah.
Sweet way to preach a sermon at the end, hey?
I feel not guilty about. This isn't bad.
We just opened a lot of boxes and we rummaged around.
We didn't fully. Yeah, feel free to submit
questions and then we can do another episode to answer those
(36:20):
questions. Oh, you.
Well, you asked me a book. I really I.
Really used up all your time. You don't it's it's over.
You don't get to recommend a book anymore.
I'll recommend the same book I'll I'll there.
You go perfect, perfect. Awesome.
Well hey everybody, hope this was helpful to you.
Blessings and we will be prayingfor you that the Lord will give
you victory over sin. Have an awesome week.
Welcome to That's a Good Question, a podcast where we
answer questions about the Christian faith in plain
language. If you or someone you know has
questions, please submit them toPeace Church dot CC slash
questions. Well, hey everyone, I'm John.
Great to have you with us. I'm that's a good question.
(00:29):
The place for answer questions about the Christian faith in
plain language here today with Logan.
Hello Pastor Logan, family pastor here at Peace Church.
Great to have you man. Good to be here Logan joining us
as the Co host for next several episodes.
Excited to get to have some great conversations.
If you're new and joining us, this is season 4.
Wow, isn't that crazy. Season 4 if that's a good
(00:50):
question, answered lots of amazing questions.
What a run it has been. It has been how many have we
redone? How like how many?
Oh, we don't tell people that. No, no, no, not reshot, but
like, I just wonder what questions?
What questions? How many times did I give a bad?
Answer and we started over. Thanks, John.
No, I I just am curious, like what questions have come up like
(01:13):
multiple times. Oh man, yeah.
Lots of them, yeah, that's the thing.
So if you're just joining us, then yeah.
And if you've got questions, we love to hear them.
So please send them in via the link.
And also be sure to check back and look at previous episodes to
see where we've answered those questions before.
And don't hesitate to ask, because even if we have done an
episode on something, there's always a cool nuance to give a
(01:34):
topic and a different angle to think of it and so.
Yeah, I love to get them more than more than once.
And that also helps me know how many people are asking that
question, whether we should do another episode on that question
or answer it in a little bit different.
Way the last episode we that I was a part of, we talked about
submission and angels and like there is just like so many
things like we never we never finished any of the top of the
(01:55):
conversations. It's like yeah, yeah, these are
huge things. We said some good stuff and then
we kind of had to move on for the next topic.
It's like you never totally finish totally talking all of it
so. Which Speaking of.
So for this season, we're actually going to kick off in a
little bit different format. We're going to we've gotten lots
of questions on a couple of different topics.
So I've tried to group them together.
So we're going to do a three-part series called Sins We
(02:17):
Keep in the Dark. Should be a lot of fun.
So season 4 is the best yet. That's what I'm saying the.
Best season? Yet, and we're starting it off
with a heavy hitter. Topic we sure are.
We sure are. You know, we like to laugh and
joke a lot on this show, but this episode might be a little
bit more on the serious side, just a little bit.
So sins we keep in the dark and today's topic is going to be
(02:40):
lust. So I know some people are just
like, oh, now I don't want to, Idon't want to listen anymore.
It's such a hard topic. And it is it's it's tough one to
talk about. Some people might have that
reaction. Other people I think are
thinking because they've been asking this question is yes,
please, let's talk about this. Please help me.
How do I deal with this in my life?
I think it's such an obvious sinthat we either bringing out into
(03:03):
the light and go to war against it, as good Christian men and
women should, or we intentionally do avoid it
because that's why it's in the dark is because we it's so
obviously something that is stifling our sanctification and
our our walking with Christ thatyou would either deal with it or
you don't. There really is no middle ground
(03:25):
when it comes to this type of right.
Topic and as we talked about it today, our goal is going to be
to not make it all about shame, just feeling bad about it
because that's that's only that's only kind of a starting
place. I mean, we do have to recognize
our sin and feel bad about it, but that's only the starting
place. That's why you put stuff in the
dark too, right? Right.
But not to just not to just sit and talk about how ashamed we
should feel, but to actually talk about how to deal with it
(03:47):
and aim for freedom. How do we, how do we in Christ
find freedom from this sin? So that's going to be the goal
of the conversation. So we've got a main verse we're
going to use as we talk about this topic today comes from
Matthew chapter 5. Jesus's words.
You have heard that it was said you shall not commit adultery.
But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with
(04:08):
lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in
his heart. If your right eye causes you to
sin, tear it out and throw it away.
It's better for you to lose one of your members than your whole
body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes
you to sin, cut it off and throwit away, for it is better that
you lose one of your members than that your whole body go
into hell. So we'll be focusing on the
(04:28):
first part of that. But good to hear the whole
paragraph get a sense of the context.
So let's just start there and talk about real quickly.
What is lust? What does the Bible say lust is?
How do we define? Look at me.
You're the hang on, man. You're here with all the
answers. Yeah, I actually love the the
way that Jesus often you said UPS the ante, but also like
(04:50):
simplifies it with with metaphors and things.
And he he he basically says whenhe's talking about lust, he says
look at a woman with lust, adultery.
Like it's almost like lust equals adultery.
Trying to get back to like the 10 commandments language, which
I think you can kind of go to two, two of the 10.
You can go to you shall not commit adultery.
(05:10):
You can also go to Exodus 20, verse 17.
You shall not covet your neighbor's house.
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
And I think adultery has more todo with like the sexual side of
things versus there is a, there is a realm of coveting that
isn't sexual in nature. It's just why I want that stuff
or I want, sure. But certainly, I guess there's
(05:33):
evidence there that you never just commit one sin, you know,
like sin is comprehensive and isaffecting more than just one
part of you. There's like that the adultery
side of it and the well, that's not even your, you don't have a
right to even be thinking of herin that way.
And so there's and then are you truly loving your neighbor in
that way? It's like there's there's always
(05:54):
compounding. There's a compounding nature to
the sinfulness of sin. Yeah, yeah, totally.
So if we had to really like makeit super concrete, it might, it
might feel weird to get really kind.
Of do you have just? Say you got something, you know,
I didn't have something specificprepared, but I'll take a shot
(06:14):
at it. So you know, lust specifically,
you know, when does when does looking at someone or thinking
about someone across the line And the lust I guess is the
question I'm asking. And I think, and I think it's
like when you start visualizing or desiring a thing that is
outside of God's design, right, is that.
(06:37):
I've heard common even talking to my father recently about
about this and he gave the phrase second glance.
You know, that's where the sin is found is in the second
glance. And sure, actually wrote down
just in my notes of preparing for this.
There's a difference between recognizing beauty and lusting,
and that difference is found in whether you take that second
(06:57):
glance or not. Sure, yeah.
And that's or. Later when you know how your
processes, yeah, if your mind even without looking, if your
mind returns to that. Yeah.
And that's like such AI don't want to say crass, but like
simplified version of trying to describe it, but.
Yeah. So I mean, even just to get
super concrete, I mean, so visualizing sexual acts or
(07:21):
thinking, feeling like, oh, I would really desire that to
somebody who's not your spouse. You can look at your spouse and
have those thoughts. You're married.
I think that goes back to the right question, like what you
can think of your sexual nature as something evil and to be
rejected. And that we wouldn't, we
(07:42):
wouldn't view our sexual nature that way.
It's built in intentionally by the creator.
Like that's how we're designed as human beings.
But there's a rightful place forthat.
There's a reason that sex is also called, in some contexts,
the marital act. Yeah.
Like it's a it's an it's an action that a person can take
(08:02):
with another person that is meant to be right, like done in
the context of marriage. And then there's a reason that
it intrinsically like it bear's fruit, which is life.
So that's we're dealing with a very powerful action that we can
take if the ramification of it is human life.
(08:23):
And there we we should not ever.And I think our culture is this
is maybe the most descriptive way to explain how our culture
is just totally bankrupt when itcomes to viewing sex and
marriage. We, we cannot as Christians view
sex apart from children or marriage apart from children.
(08:45):
Like there's something that those marriage, sex and
children, they have to do with each other by definition, and we
can't view them apart from each other.
I just thought of a lightning round question we're gonna have
to come back to. Oh my gosh.
OK. Our What's the word for them?
What? Contraceptives.
Oh yeah, our. Contraceptives OK for
Christians? There's.
(09:05):
A. There's a question.
OK, so yeah, there's another. Not right now another.
Example of how we're fully talk talk exhaust I.
Always say this in so many different directions.
So just one more. I'm I'm just clarifying the
definition. So where does it cross from
temptation into sin? You know, so we said we're kind
of, you know, like, you know, inour world, you're going to, you
(09:28):
know, even even, you know, Jesussays we're going to face
temptation, but you got to overcome temptation.
So like, when did where is that line?
You know, because like you're watching television and an
inappropriate commercial or whatever comes across the
screen. Where does that go from?
I'm tempted to to loss to actually I've committed the same
(09:49):
loss. Yeah.
And our culture is so pornographic, right, That that's
why this is a very practical topic.
It's because there's no one thatcan really escape asking that
question if they're thinking about it.
Yeah. And just so my quick thought is
that it's, it's a little, it's alittle unclear, I think how to,
(10:10):
how to exactly describe that. But I think it's, you know, do
you, are you, do you turn away and be like, no, I'm not going
to look at that and think about that.
Or do you sit there and dwell onit and absorb it?
I think that's kind of the, you know, you've got, so you've got
a choice to make. I think it's important just to
distinguish between actually falling into the sin and just
being tempted because we will face temptation all the time.
Like you said, we live in a basically pornographic world
(10:31):
where this this stuff is everywhere.
So you're going to be tempted. The question is, do you give in?
So and you know, I never want todefine the the thing in such a
way that we can never have any kind of victory.
So you can face temptation, livein this world, and yet have
victory over over the sin there's.
So much more to say, but, and we'll hopefully say some of it
(10:52):
still, but there's few things that I think is kneecapping
Christian men more than a pornography addiction that
they're ashamed to talk about. Yeah.
And so you bringing up the fact there can be victory in this, I
think is huge. I think the fact that this is
titled sins we keep in the dark is huge because, yeah, we keep
that in the dark. Sin dies in the light.
(11:13):
You know, like you have to bringit up.
It's Satan has convinced you it's best to keep it in the
dark. You're better for it.
And those are just all lies. Absolutely.
So what are some some lies, someeasily misconceived ideas that
we have about lust? Some I think of as well.
One one that comes to me is justis that is this only a men's
(11:34):
problem? Right.
Yeah, I said men. I, I'm at our church on the
family pastor. I oversee men's ministry and
women's ministry. And we have a ministry program
for both women and one for men that are geared towards women
and geared towards men and trying to address issues that
might be more specific to them in a way that might specifically
(11:55):
help them better. But it's it's certainly sexual
sin is something that both men and women, right.
Deal with. Certainly.
Yeah. Right.
Pornography, definitely men ended up on the majority side of
that. But it's true that both genders
struggle with. Yes.
Right. Is that fair to say?
Yeah. All right, so like we've said,
there's so much we can talk about about this topic, but
let's kind of start at least thinking about.
(12:16):
I think people listening are thinking, OK, I, you know, I
know what this is and I strugglewith it.
I want to know how to, how to win, how by God's grace through
Christ, through the power of theHoly Spirit, can I have some
victory. And I think the first thing that
the first question we should maybe answer practically is
this, why is just trying harder not enough?
(12:38):
Yeah, because some people will say, well, you just got to try
harder. It's just a, it's just a will
self-discipline kind of thing. Why is that not really the
complete answer? Yeah, it's fascinating how we
could talk about a lot of theoretical things and talk
about why the gospel is enough and and then but someone might
(13:02):
say, look, we'll get practical and get more tangible and then
we can move into more like, well, here you can do this and
this, but like the gospel never we never move away from our need
of the gospel. I'm just thinking of like what
you're describing as self righteousness.
Sure, which is anti gospel. If, if the gospel is that we can
have the righteousness, righteousness of Christ and be
LED in his righteousness, the reason that you can't just try
(13:25):
harder is because inherently what that means is you saying
push Jesus even further away andjust do things yourself even
more. And the reason why that doesn't
work is the exact reason why thegood news is good news is
because we are empowered by the Holy Spirit, not empowered just
by our own right self will and self righteousness and.
(13:47):
Right. So the big picture theological
answer is that we are, we have asinful nature.
And so we are. I mean, the Bible says that
we're enslaved to sin. Yeah.
So why not? So we need Jesus.
Why not just try harder and pushharder?
Because, well, your sinful nature is going to win that
fight. Your sinful nature is going to
win that fight. Yeah, you can't just try harder
on your own. You need the Lord.
(14:09):
I think you also need Christian community.
I think there's also, there's plenty of things that you can
think about. I mean just the addictive nature
of. Pornography, especially if
there's addiction in your life, then trying harder is not.
Is it just it's going to be? Fruit, I mean, it's similar
right to saying just try harder to a drug addict or or an
alcoholic or something like that.
That's called being exhausted quickly.
(14:29):
Yeah, you're going to get exhausted really fast.
So there's people listening to us even say why don't you just
try harder? And they're like, oh, I know
that's impossible, right? I'd love some good news.
And so if we then flip the question a little bit from why
not just try harder to but trying to keep the tangible
language like, OK, so how do I practically seek the empowerment
(14:49):
of the Holy Spirit to overcome, Yeah, either addiction or just
how do I respond in moments where I experience, Yeah, a
lustful thought. Yeah.
So I think we could probably both share from our own
experience lots of different things that have been helpful.
Things have been less helpful. I'll just I'll share.
I think a basic framework for Christians fighting sin is that
(15:12):
when you fall into sin, you go through the practice that that
Jesus teaches us to confess yoursin, to repent of your sin and
to I pray for the Lord to continue to help you.
And I think it's really helpful.I found it really helpful to do
that with other brothers. So often that will be referred
to as like an accountability partner or a small group or
something like that. So having a group of guys that
you can say, hey guys, I fell into sin.
(15:34):
This is how I am so sorry beforeyou guys and before the Lord and
Lord please help me. There is so much shame and guilt
that someone can feel with sexual sin.
And the Bible describes sexual sin as unique because it's, you
know, it's, I think Paul says it's a sin against yourself in
(15:56):
some ways. And so there's such it's.
Also, the analogy that is used throughout the Bible for
idolatry, adultery and idolatry are really connected.
So there's a, you know, sexual intimacy and the heart are very
connected. Yeah.
I just I want to affirm what yousaid.
I can think of few things as powerful as confession, like
(16:19):
moments in my life where I've pulled someone aside and confess
sin, or moments where another brother has come to me and
confess sin, which definitely keep it same gender, like men to
men, unless you're like confessing to a spouse.
I can think of few things as powerful in my my life as
moments of confession. Yeah, yeah.
That's what when I yeah, especially in my my teens and
(16:42):
20s when this was, you know, a big, a big struggle, a big
challenge of this a time of unique challenge for most men
against lust. I had a great group of brothers,
same age guys. We got together once a week.
We're able to pray for each other, encourage each other,
read scripture together, confess.
We had a text thread that we would text confession to each
(17:04):
other. We did a unique thing that this
is maybe we could laugh at this.And this would probably go into
the category of, you know, we were really trying to exert our
wills and our self-discipline, which by the way, there's, I
mean, you want to exert all the tools you have, right?
Self-discipline is a is, is a good thing.
It's a God-given gift and we need to use it to fight against
sin. But we would do we would have
this thing that when, when we would fall into sin, we would
(17:24):
actually text each other and andsay it.
And then we all had to run a mile.
I love that. That's awesome.
I don't know how popular that that plan was, but.
Well, just trying to natural consequences, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, right. It was, yeah, yeah.
It was just trying to bring up like, OK, I've confessed and
that means something so that it wasn't just like.
There is something about living in a fallen world where the good
(17:49):
things that God has designed, like our sexual natures can be
come twisted in a way where whenyou do feel lustful desire,
you're almost feel yourself likein a fog.
You're not thinking rightly. Like you look back sometimes and
you're like, I was not sober minded, you know, like there's
something that was just and that's that's temptation.
(18:10):
Temptation is a liar. And you can, like, look back in
moments where you were in temptation and you think I
didn't notice in the moment. But now looking back, I wasn't
like there was a war, spiritual war going on.
Oh yeah. And the lies that your mind
starts to believe are. Incredible.
Yeah. So the I think that that is a
fun way to 1 making a, an agreement amongst each other.
(18:34):
It's like we will share. Yeah, you know, we will share
and like I'm expecting you to share with me and you should
expect that I'll share with you.That type of brotherhood is
awesome. And you got to make I'll, I'll,
I'll add to you know, you got tomake it cross centered too.
It can't be just I confess and we're all going to run.
It's got to be also I confess. I recognize that I've sinned
(18:56):
before the Lord. I recognize that Jesus's blood
covers my sin. Thank you Lord, and fill me with
Your spirit and help me to overcome sin in the future.
That precision is helpful, but Ijust love the mile on top of it.
It's just because, yeah, well, Iwant to help myself think more
sober mindedly, so I'm going to do this physical action as well
to kind of hammer that nail. Down, I think maybe it came out
(19:17):
of this, but I remember back, you know, in high school and
football and stuff, it was, you know, if you did something
wrong, you had to take a run to the Wisdom Tree is what we
called it. There was there was a tree.
Yeah, there's a tree out not notterribly far from the football
practice field. And if if you messed up, Coach
said, take a trip to the Wisdom Tree, you had to run out and run
back. Yeah.
And so it's just that, you know,you had to do something that
made you think for a little bit about what you did wrong and
(19:39):
learn from your. Mistakes I say this in marital
counseling too, like you don't prepare for you to be at your
best. You prepare for you to be at
your worst. And sometimes especially your
spouses, you're both at your worst.
And so you prepare for seasons like that.
But when it comes to personal, you know, your sanctification
journey, the Lord, like the HolySpirit has helped all of us like
(20:03):
just listeners can think personally, but also like we
could we all can think personally.
The Lord's identified sins in your life like sanctification
has done a step at a time and he's he's brought to your heart
what he wants you to work on next.
And so I mean go to war against those things that he's brought
up into your mind. And so creative things like that
I think are awesome. We have such Christian freedom
in how we go to war against our sin.
(20:25):
Yeah. You know.
And confession, but confession is just a beautiful part of
that. I think especially when it comes
to things like lust and pornography.
I, I think that that is one of the quickest lies that the enemy
will give you in your heart is it's you don't have to share
this. It's like, OK, maybe you don't,
but when I first started confessing when I was in
(20:49):
college, my pornography addiction to my friends, I
became in I became in love with living in the light.
I was like, Oh my gosh, this is what the sunlight feels like.
I was taking any chance I could get to confess my sins.
That felt like for a season, I was able to speak in our
school's Chapel around that season of my life.
And I remember having the thought like, oh, I'm going to
(21:10):
tell everyone that I was addicted to porn.
I was so excited to do it. And then there were guys that
came up to me and they were justlike in tears saying thank you
for mentioning that. And in a recent sermon that I
gave, I, I felt like led to mention it too, just cause of,
for a pastor to share in a sermon, there's men in the room
that might have that shame of thinking I'm the only one
(21:30):
struggling with this. Or like what you brought up
earlier, it's like, I think I can fight this on my own.
That's such a lie. And you can't but just to have
to have A to, for a community topractice confession better than
we need to step up and then practice confession more.
And I mean, I just hope anyone listening that has felt that lie
(21:53):
recently, felt the Holy Spirit tugging on them to share and
they don't, to just be reminded of something true, which is
there's something so beautiful and powerful about confession.
Yeah, totally. And here's a verse I want to
just, I want to share just that you can reflect on as well.
Related to that, this first John19 if we confess our sins, He is
(22:13):
faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from
all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we
make him a liar and his word is not in US.
So yeah, I think, I think the Bible's pretty clear about how
important that confession step is. 11 More quick, practical
thing. I want to ask you because you
brought up the idea of confessing to your spouse.
Let's talk about that real quick.
(22:34):
There's so much, man, I feel like we're going to run out of
time quickly here. But should your spouse be your
accountability partner? Yeah.
As far as like an accountabilitypartner, no, I'd advise against
it. But certainly you should confess
your sins to your spouse. Right, right.
Your sin. Yeah, if you're married, your
sin is against the Lord first and foremost, but it is against
your spouse. You have sinned against them.
(22:55):
So confessing to them and apologizing to them is an
important step. And yeah, I think your, your
spouse can't be the because because it's a sin against them.
It is an emotional load for themto receive.
You know, it hurts them. So they can't take on the the
primary role. I think of being like an
accountability partner. That's where you need a brother
if you're a man or a sister if you're a woman.
(23:17):
So much to say, but I, I, I'll get personal when I shared with
my and there's so much more to the story that God's hand was
in. But when I when I shared with
Rachel, who was my fiance at thetime, that pornography was a
part of my life and something I was wanting to go to war
against, I I've never seen such pain that I've caused someone
(23:41):
ever. And so I felt like the I, I, I
think I've said it before, like I felt like such a shell of a
man. Like just, I've never felt more
weak in my life. It's similar to now that I have
kids. Like last night I held my son
who was like having a hard time breathing because of a coffee.
Had like, I feel like such a weak man right now.
(24:04):
Like I can't do anything about this.
So and I feel awful, you know? And so like that moment where I
confess that sin to my soon to be spouse, my fiance at the
time, that confession was so powerful in my life because it
helps me think soberly about Oh my gosh, my sin hurts more than
just me. And then likewise on the other
(24:25):
end of that. And the Lord used that season of
my life in incredible ways to just thinking of we were more
than conquerors, right? Like victory and over sin, but
that weak moment was a positive moment for me to think clearly
and then for her to come back and forgive me.
I have never felt more like a man, but more of a man more
(24:45):
capable and able and excited to be the type of man that I'm
called to be. So I, I just confession doesn't
isn't all sunshine, sunshine andrainbows as far as it's not
necessarily pleasant to own it and confess your sins.
And yet there's something so beautiful about walking in the
light and being the truth and not letting skeletons in the
(25:07):
closet, you know, keep a chain around your neck.
Right, Amen, Amen. That's beautiful.
What I real quickly what what isthe name of the ministry that we
do? So for men specifically, we have
a pro which is very targeted. Our our women's ministry for
sexual sin is more broad and hasa lot more applications to it.
(25:31):
But the men's ministry specifically is for porn
addiction and it is called the conquer series.
So the Conquer series, we call it the our conquerors group and
it's, I believe 14 different 14 weeks going through a program,
the conquer series and pretty early on, or maybe it's in the
middle, but it does include likethere has to be confession to
(25:53):
your spouse. So I think it's interesting that
we've kind of highlighted that because they do too as something
that is profoundly important. Yeah.
So for those who are listening who are part of Peace Church,
that's something that we do at the church.
Feel free to reach out and inquire about that.
If you're not part of Peace Church, there are resources
online. There are.
You know that those books and resources are available in other
(26:14):
places. We're not the only church that
does that. So, so check that out.
That's a valuable resource. No, I have heard of the just
thinking of sexual sin as this against your own body and also
how when you're married you are one flesh.
Few things are as painful to both people than sexual sin.
And I've heard the analogy of like it's like stabbing your
(26:37):
spouse with a knife, but that knife is has another blade
facing you and you're just like stabbing each other.
It's so painful and so. It's a brutal image.
We need to think soberly about this because there's it's, it's
just again, kneecapping men and women in their spiritual lives
and syncification because of theshame holding us back.
(26:57):
And it, it hurts. It's it is sin and sin kills and
it's hurting our marriages and we need to get serious.
About it yeah, real quickly. Let's let's let's and I want to
end on on the gospel note and then hit lightning round.
So real quick gospel note. I just want to say for those who
we all need to hear it, lust is not the unforgivable sin.
(27:20):
Even adultery is not the unforgivable sin.
Jesus's blood can cover any sin,and for those who love the Lord
and have salvation in and through Jesus have been covered
in the blood of Jesus. God calls us to continually
repent and to try to conquer oursin.
So he forgives us, which is great news, and he gives us the
(27:41):
Spirit and tries to lead us intoa life that is more conformed
to. Jesus doesn't leave us to just
stay in our sin. Praise God.
All right, here we go, lightninground Logan.
Can married people still? Am I the only one answering the
lightning round questions? I can ask you some right?
Is lust always a? Sin I guess.
Is lust always a sin, even if it's fleeting?
(28:01):
Is that the question? No, I'm just going to go.
No, I, I because I feel like we already answered that, right.
So I was going to ask, can married people still struggle
with lust? Yeah. 100%.
And I feel like we did kind of answer that, but I was going to
maybe go the next step and say can married this is.
Can you lust? Us through your stuff.
Well, no, I was going to say because I people do ask this
question from time to time, eventhough the answer might seem
clear to us. Is it OK for married people to
(28:24):
watch pornography? As part of what you've.
Never had anybody ask you that, no.
Oh yeah, like thinking this might be helpful if.
We're doing this to help us as amarried couple.
Yeah, not helping you. It's the same reason my social
media is making us all more depressed.
Sure, not good. I mean, that's just one part of
it, but just on the face of it, that would be not helpful.
(28:47):
No, I've had people ask me that.They said, well, you know, we're
married and we're doing it to help us because so doesn't that
make it OK? And the answer is no.
Some of these we've already answered.
So here's here's 1. You get to answer this one.
I'm just kidding. What is this is an awkward one.
Which one? Is masturbation a sin?
Yeah, if, if what you mean by masturbation is I'm alone.
(29:08):
I'm by myself, I'm entertaining.Thoughts.
So that's the thing. Is again that selfish?
So when I yeah. So credit to my to my parents
for this, they we read a book together when I was a young man
and and, you know, going throughpuberty and all those kind of
things, you got to talk to kids about this kind of stuff.
But I remember that book actually was a very popular book
at the time. And it actually said that the
(29:30):
answer was was no, this isn't sin.
It's OK. But it what it didn't clarify is
that's possibly true if you can separate it from lust.
So I like what I hear you sayingis that it's not really is it
really possible to do that thingwithout lust?
Probably not. I mean if.
You get really crass, which I guess we're already here.
(29:52):
We've been talking about sex, but I mean there's a such a
thing as nocturnal emission, which is like that's not
masturbation, but your body did the thing while you're and that
might come about from like a lustful dreamer might not.
But I guess you are putting the kind of focus down on, well, are
(30:13):
you selfishly lusting after you know well?
That's I think that's what it comes down to, right agree.
So this is the question. So the question is about this
physical thing, this self stimulation, whatever.
I'm just avoiding the word now, but you know, you know, is that
physical action inherently evil?Maybe not, but the if typically
(30:36):
it means you're using lust in your brain to to to do that
thing. So yeah, that's that's sin.
I think that's a helpful just quick.
This is lightning round, after all.
We're not very fast here. I think the tough question for.
Lightning round, but I kind of focusing on well, are you
lusting? That kind of answers the
question very quick. That's good.
Totally Yep. Let me ask the next question.
Dang it. OK, what's the difference?
(30:58):
What's the difference between porn and just looking too long?
Well, pornography would be wouldinvolve, I think it involves how
much you see is usually what I would think of as the definition
of that. I guess in our country there's
even been Supreme Court debate about what the definition is,
but wow, right. I mean the the difference
between if you're asking what isthe difference between
(31:18):
pornography and waiting too longor looking too long, you're
talking about how well clothed the person is.
But we've already said, I think the real question isn't about
what's difference between pornography and looking too
long, but what's difference between lust and looking too
long. And that's something we we
talked about already, right? The the second glance or the
beginning to visualize or desirea sexual interaction with
somebody who's not your spouse. Yeah, man, yeah.
(31:39):
We, we, we mainly just opened upa lot of cans of worms.
We didn't really. We sure did.
Land the plane on too many things.
Let's land the plane on this. Again, feel free to send in lots
of questions about this and we'll have to do another episode
someday in the future, but we'llwrap it up for today.
Let's end on this one book that you think would be helpful for
people on the topic. I'll, I'll go first.
(32:00):
I'll go first so you can think about it.
The book that was most helpful to me on this, and it actually
wasn't at all about sexual sin. It was just about sin in
general. So this is maybe not going to be
the one for most people. But John Owen, the mortification
of sin, so he's a Puritan 400 years ago writing a book just
about killing sin. He spends an entire book.
It's a short book, but but a deep and it's not an easy read,
(32:22):
but he spends the entire book expositing Romans 813, which
basically says you've got to kill sin before it kills you.
That's the classic. Line Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which is what I, when I said in this episode said go to war
against sin, that's like anotherway of saying that exact idea is
you need to go to war against it.
That is sanctification. That's in the Holy Spirit helps
you in that. That isn't self righteousness.
(32:42):
I read that book at 19 or 20 andI just thought it was super,
super helpful, impactful. So, so then my, I guess my mind
right now goes to like, what have we?
We've opened a lot of cans of worms.
So we're not going to be able to, I can't wrap up everything
just as I want to be able to, but I'm trying to think of what,
what did we bring up that would be helpful to go back to?
And I think for single men and women wrestling with these
(33:07):
things, because when you're, I mean, first Corinthians 7
literally says like, have sex. That's how you fight, right?
Don't maybe pause for times of prayer, but come together again
so that Satan may not tempt you.It's like, Oh my gosh, like that
act and and marriage is in renewing your covenant in a
(33:28):
sense, like giving yourself overis how you fight sin in a way,
but single people don't have that to do.
You don't have a, you're. Cheating.
Right now you're preaching. You're supposed to be answering.
Just what is one book recommendation?
Logan or this is the conclusion of the episode, but I'm just
saying that my, we've said a lotabout married people.
They have avenues in that that single people don't.
(33:51):
They're single. I guess that's the one thing
where my I'm thinking we want to, I want to say one more thing
about that, I guess just becausefor the man or woman in in the
20s that are like, I'm not married and I need something
else here. So I think it's just it's
reassuring to know one that we can overcome this through the
(34:11):
Holy Spirit's power. And you've, you've said that
very well, we can overcome this.And just to know that the Bible
is very clear in when it comes to our sexual nature, we only
have two options. And it's not necessarily
singleness or marriage. Like you can get a little more
(34:33):
precise with it. It's it's faithfulness in
marriage and it's faithfulness in pursuing the Lord.
So really pursue choices are God's way or not God's way.
Yeah, yeah, I OK. Yeah, I guess we're talking
about selfishness and selflessness kind of being at
the heart of these these topics here.
(34:53):
And just be mindful where your focus is and know that Lord's
going to help you readjust your focus if you notice it's not
aligned with his will. And this has to do with more
than just lost, but especially lost like when we catch
ourselves in in sin. What do you do?
Well, as a Christian, you repentand then get on with following
(35:14):
the Lord again, and that's what he wants you to do.
And so just consider, Yep, that was a selfish thought and, and
go to the Lord in prayer, maybe even confess it to a brother or
a sister and repent and then move on.
That's where we have that freedom and that power in the
gospel to get get back to livingand not let Satan shame us and
(35:36):
stifle our sanctification with that shame.
But we can give that guilt to the Lord.
Yeah, and acknowledge it and even like a prayer that is
helpful that I I would has is still helpful to me, but
especially when I wasn't marriedwas Lord, thank you for the
beauty and your creation. Any further entertaining of that
(35:57):
thought would be sinful because I have no right.
And then try to refocus your mind on on what the Lord does
want you to focus on. Yeah, yeah.
Sweet way to preach a sermon at the end, hey?
I feel not guilty about. This isn't bad.
We just opened a lot of boxes and we rummaged around.
We didn't fully. Yeah, feel free to submit
questions and then we can do another episode to answer those
(36:20):
questions. Oh, you.
Well, you asked me a book. I really I.
Really used up all your time. You don't it's it's over.
You don't get to recommend a book anymore.
I'll recommend the same book I'll I'll there.
You go perfect, perfect. Awesome.
Well hey everybody, hope this was helpful to you.
Blessings and we will be prayingfor you that the Lord will give
you victory over sin. Have an awesome week.
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