November 4, 2025 • 34 mins
In this special live edition of That’s a Good Question, host Jon Delger, the Executive Pastor of the Peace Family of Churches, Ryan Kimmel, the Lead Pastor, and Nate Harney, the Middleville Campus Pastor, take real questions from the audience about some of today’s most pressing and challenging topics. From the conflict in Israel to how Christians should think about Halloween, God’s wrath, and life in an increasingly secular culture—our pastors dive deep into Scripture and a biblical worldview to help us navigate faith in the real world.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:08):
Welcome to That's a Good Question, a podcast where we
answer questions about the Christian faith in plain
language. If you or someone you know has
questions, please submit them toPeace Church dot CC slash
questions. All right, well, let's dive
right in, guys. We got the most questions so far
(00:31):
tonight about Israel. Now this is a hot button issue.
I'll read two of the questions here and then you guys can take
however you want. Here's one question about the
nation of Israel today. Are they still God's chosen
people? Obviously they are in full
rebellion as they have rejected Christ.
(00:52):
Is the church exclusively God's chosen and one more, is the
Israel and the Bible the same thing as the current popular
belief that we all should support and defend the nation
state government of Israel? And if so, if that government is
or becomes corrupted, are we still bound to support and
defend it? Lots to work with their modern
(01:14):
day nation of Israel. Great question.
Questions like these keep comingin and we're always happy to
answer them because I think there's so much confusion in the
world today about this, especially for Christians.
And I think something we can talk about is how much that's
owing to people don't necessarily know these terms,
but these two ideas, dispensational theology and
covenant theology, two differentunderstandings of the Bible and
(01:36):
how the Old Testament, the New Testament fit together.
So those are that's really what it comes down to is those two
ideas. We can talk more about that, but
the short answer is, is the nation of Israel today the same
thing as what's going on in the Old Testament?
The short answer is no, it's not.
And the major reason for that isbecause we're on the other side
of the biggest event in human history, the coming of the Son
(01:56):
of God, Jesus Christ. So in the Old Testament, the
nation of Israel is God's people.
God is specifically working through them.
But then in the New Testament, Jesus comes.
Jesus is truly God's son. So all throughout the Old
Testament we have different characters playing the role of
God's Son, right? Adam is called God's son, King
David is called God's Son, and his, the King's after him.
(02:19):
In the nation of Israel, even the nation of Israel itself is
called God's son. So you have ever since the fall
of humanity into sin under Adam,you have different people trying
to come and trying to play the role of obeying God, living in
righteousness and leading humanity back into redemption.
But of course, we learned throughout the Old Testament
that nobody can do it because there's no sinless perfect human
(02:42):
being until finally the Son of God comes as a man in Jesus and
he lives righteously, lives perfectly, fulfills the the law
of God, obeys its commands, doeswhat none of us could do, and he
dies the death for sin. And so we enter into a new epoch
in the history of humanity. And so, yeah, the Bible tells
us, even going back to Genesis 12 and Abraham, that the aim was
(03:05):
always for Israel or for God's promises to go beyond one nation
to many nations. And so we could talk a ton about
this, but yeah, we would say that actually the church is the
fulfillment of what God was trying to do through the people
of Israel, people from many nations who trust the Lord.
So much more we could say. Yeah, there's so much more we
could say. There's two things I'll follow
up to say is that that is a perpetual question.
(03:27):
Doesn't matter how many times you get it gets answered.
It's going to constantly get asked.
We get this fairly often, I would say, and I would I would
always be pointing people to Romans Chapter 11 and the
engrafting that God does bringing the Gentiles into the
promise into the covenant. First one I'd say to is, yeah,
let's let's look at Romans 11 and how Paul treats this this
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notion. The other thing is this is
somewhat of a side tangent, but it's also something as, as the,
as a pastor, I want to, I want to express to I'm seeing mostly
the congregation here is there is something very unique going
on in, in the modern world that that the church throughout
history hasn't, hasn't had to wrestle with like we do.
(04:10):
And that is the amount of discipleship that happens
through the screens. I, I fully recognize that that
peace church in every American church is going to be discipled
more by what you view online than what you probably are going
to be by, by the pastors here. And I lament that, to be honest
with you. It is, it is a taxing, tiring
(04:32):
thing to constantly trying to battle the, the, the, the bad
theology that is so pervasive out there.
And I, and on the one hand, I, I'm huge proponent of free
speech. The free speech also means that
you, you're going to be exposed to a lot of bad theology and a
lot of misinformation. And so part of the reason that
we, we, I won't speak for John or Nate, but the person I get
(04:53):
frustrated by this is that it's just this constantly comes up
because I know people are constantly being fed weak
theology. And my caution for you is be
careful what you consume, especially when it's under the
banner of Christian teaching. We, we here at the church, we
are zealous and, and we labor very hard to make sure
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everything that we preach and teach is biblical, not
denominational, not, not based on tradition, but it's biblical.
And we understand that that's not going to be the, the
framework of, of a lot of the content that's out there.
And so we're happy to answer this question.
And that's one of the things I love about scripture and love
about our Lord is that he's, he constantly answers the same
question. So we will do that.
(05:39):
And with that, I'm also going tosay to you, please, please enjoy
the sun. Like get outside, like get off
the phone, get off YouTube, stopwatching 1000 different pastors
and be discipled by your church,by your pastors, and by your
community. And if you don't believe that
we're preaching the Bible, then then I will point you to some
(06:00):
churches that I do believe are preaching the Bible.
And so there's a little bit of atangent, but.
Oh, that's, that's a great point.
Now, as a follow up on that, howwould you recommend that
Christians today stay informed with what's going on in the
world, but also keep that balance?
So focusing on our community andthe here and now and putting the
(06:20):
Bible first, how would you guys recommend you balance that out?
I'll, I'll just say, I think I think we have to recognize that
so many of us feel the burden ofevery single piece of World News
that's happening and you're not meant to.
There's a God in heaven who's who's in control.
And let's pray that God raises up people locally to address
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issues that are happening globally because I think people
get so stressed about things that you will never be able to
handle, you'll never be able to control and you'll never be able
to fix. And I'm not saying be
dispassionate about the plight of what's going on in the world.
I, I hope we can talk about what's happening in Nigeria
right now, but remember, you only have so much emotional and
spiritual weight that you can carry.
(07:04):
And so make sure that you are carrying the burdens that God is
placing on you, the cross for you, not someone else's.
What would you say? Yeah, definitely.
Definitely. Yeah.
I mean, so that's what we try toas a church.
We want to offer as many opportunities as we can for
people to grow as followers of Jesus.
Get involved in a small group, find a place to serve and use
the gifts guys given you in the church.
Absolutely. Yeah.
(07:25):
The one thing I'd add practically is it's popular
right now. You'll hear as Christians,
especially online, will tell people they're praying for them.
There's been a huge rejection ofthat, of just saying, hey, keep
your prayers to yourself. I need practical help.
And I think as we take in the news, one of the things that we
do is, like you said, there's solittle that we can personally
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impact, but we can always pray. And that's actually the most
practical, most impactful thing we can do because we're
petitioning the God of the universe who has all the power
and all the knowledge to act andto act in justice, to act in
love and grace and mercy, and sopraying and then living your
(08:10):
life, right? All right, praise God.
OK, so here's AI, hardly want toask this, but it is.
It's been online a lot, especially this month, but
people want to know our views onHalloween on how to respond to
it on if we think it's you mean.Reformation Day.
(08:34):
Yeah, exactly. You don't even know what I'm
talking about. Do.
You, John. This is it, a demonic day?
Do we let our kids dress up and go trick or treating?
And I do think one of the reasons why, beside it being
October, there's been also a lotof discussion that came out of a
Christian artist force Frank posting something that he's not
(08:57):
going to celebrate Halloween of this family.
And then there's a back and forth with that.
So what is your recommendation on how to handle Halloween as a
Christian? You want to or you want me to?
It doesn't matter. Wow, I guess.
I don't even know what Halloweenis.
I don't know I've been it's Reformation days, but October
31st is actually October 31st iswhen Martin Luther the Reformer
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in the 1500 in 1517, October 31st, 1517 went to the door of
Wittenberg Church and he nailed his 95 theses to the to the
door. These were his 95 points of
where he thought the Roman Catholic Church had deviated
from what the Bible was teachingand so launched the Protestant
Reformation. So yeah, that's the joke we're
kind of referring to. So that's that's the other thing
we celebrate on that day. And the best jokes, you have to
(09:43):
explain them. That's always.
I know that's always the best kind.
Those are the best kind I know. That's what really gets the
laughs, I know. So Halloween.
My kids go trick or treating andthen when they get home, I pick
out all the Reese's Peanut Butter cups.
So clearly we, we have conversations about it.
(10:05):
I think it's about being intentional with what you do.
I think it's one of those thingswhere you're going to have,
you're going to have Christian liberty and you have Christians
who fall in different places on this.
So if, if in your heart for me, it's, it's the whole sacrifice
meet conversation that Paul has with the Corinthians.
If in your heart all you can think about is the demonic and
that Halloween is all about demons and witches and I then if
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that's all you can do, then stayaway from it.
If you see this as just, it's something happening in the, in
our broader society that kids can take part in and dress like
their favorite Marvel character and go get free candy from their
neighbor. I, I personally am OK with that.
I, I would say though, I do think, and maybe it's just
exposure to social media and stuff.
I do think there is a growing, growing demonic edge that maybe
(10:49):
not. And maybe it's just I'm getting
older or I have that lens, but Ido think there is seems to be
like this growing demonic edge about Halloween that I just
don't know was there and present.
Maybe some of the older Saints have said it's always been
there. But I would say at the end of
the day, it's, it's going to be an area of Christian liberty.
Clearly we're not here to celebrate the demonic.
Clearly we want to reject that. But if people want to partake in
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something that's happening broadly in our culture and they
can do that with a good conscience, then I think this is
this is where we need to have charity for one another.
And again, if, if you have, if your heart cannot allow you to
do that, then I affirm that. And I don't think you should do
it. I think it'll be bad for you to
do that. I answered 2 emails about that
this past week. Interesting.
(11:31):
Totally. Yeah.
I agree. We can't participate in the
demonic. But every time, you know, a kid
puts on a Spider Man costume andgoes to the door to ask for
candy, does that mean that we'reembracing the demonic?
I don't think so. So yeah, I think if you're
comfortable, I think you can do that in good conscience.
All right. Well, they keep rolling in lots
(11:54):
of good questions. We're we're hitting the hot
button ones tonight. So we've got, oh, someone just
asked a Reese's related questionas a follow up to Ryan.
But. We're going to skip that We we
bonus material. A couple questions have come in,
all referencing this term that'sin the news a lot lately.
(12:18):
Christian nationalism. What are Peace Church's thoughts
on Christian nationalism and is was the United States created by
and for Christians? Oh man, lots of good stuff in
there. So much we can talk about.
So let's maybe you and I can go back and forth to that, chime in
all different kinds of things. So I'll start with this.
(12:39):
So Christian nationalism is one of those terms that I think it
just depends on who you're talking to about what it means.
So it is often used as a slanderous term.
Often it's used in a company with meant with the word white.
You have to hear people say white Christian nationalist and
they're they're saying that is avery negative thing about a
person. Now, I would say that there's a
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wide range of people who are called that term going all the
way from people who are who probably deserve some of the
some of the very derogatory parts of that go with that term.
And some on the other side that I think all of us here would
just, we would say these are just guys who love Jesus and
love their country. So it can mean a wide range of
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things. So whenever somebody says, do
you embrace this or would you call yourself as I say, well,
I've never called myself that, but tell me what it means and
then I'd be happy to tell you whether I agree or don't agree
with that statement. I think that's always a wise
thing as a Christian, when somebody comes out with you with
a label, labels are usually designed to try to say you're
bad because of this. So just say, hey, what does that
term mean or what does it mean to you?
(13:41):
And then, you know, talk with them about whether you agree or
disagree with the things that they're saying.
Yeah, try to root out what are you?
What's your fears behind that? What are you?
What are you scared? Yeah.
What makes you fearful in that? I personally, I don't.
It's not a term I apply to myself.
It's not a term I'm fighting to use.
I think if you delineate, delineate it down to like its
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components, there's probably going to be things I agree with.
But it, it's a, it's a heated term that provides or, you know,
it's a heated term that I think brings division.
And so I'm, I'm less, there's other fights I want to fight
for. I do think America is the
greatest country on the planet. There's I say that because
there's nowhere else I'd want tolive.
I think that Christ is the king and I think that if the entire
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world followed Christian values,it would be better for
everybody, not just for Christians.
And so there's, as you see, likethere's, there's things that I'm
already starting to say that people are going to say, Well,
that's Christian nationalism. I said, well, that's you take a
label you're using against on me.
I'm not, I'm not fighting or dying to use that term.
I don't really. It's same for all the things
like, if you don't like the termcovenant theology, then let's
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talk about what we believe aboutthe Bible.
Then like I, I don't need to fight for these terms, you know,
like, or you're reformed. If that's triggering to you or
there's misconception, then let's talk about what we think
about the Bible. So I, I just kind of go back to
what do they mean like what you were saying.
Yeah, So are we Christians and do we love our country?
Yes. I'll quit saying we I'll just
say that's true for all of us. But well, no, no, actually I'm.
(15:10):
Glad you said that. Because someone.
Because. You don't love our our nation.
No, I, I know, I, no, I do the, the question is what is Peace
Church's stance? And so I, I want to make sure
that we, that, that, that question or, or that that
language is something I have to entertain a lot.
What is peace church's stances on this?
(15:31):
And there's going to be things that I, I think that maybe not
necessarily, I wouldn't say it'speace church.
I know I'm the lead pastor. There's probably, if we get, if
we dial down to the, to the finest points of theology, there
may be things that mean you see things differently and mean
Munite. So the notion of what does peace
Church believe? For me to say that I'm going to
say that's something that the elders have discussed trade over
(15:53):
decided and voted on. That's what Peace Church
believes that there are representing body.
If you want to know our opinion,then then we can talk about
that. But I, I would hate to say this
is what Peace Church believes because that, that's a, that's a
powerful statement. Totally.
So I think So what I'll say is that, you know, if so you're out
there here in this phrase, Christian nationalism, you're
(16:14):
just trying to weigh out where am I at, where you know you as a
Christian when you're trying to think of where are you at?
Well, some things to think aboutis this, if you know, I think
what a lot of people are trying to say is that they're accusing
people of being a Christian nationalist if they've elevated
their love of country above their love of God.
I think that's what a lot of people would say.
And obviously that's a bad thing.
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You know, anything that you put above God, that's, that's,
that's called an idol or a falseGod.
That's, that's bad. The 10 commandments are very
clear about that, right? And yet as Christians, we love
our nation. We want good things for our
nation. We want to be involved in our
nation. We also believe that Christian
values, biblical values, God's design is what's best for our
nation. Now, just for saying those
(16:57):
things, I might get called a Christian nationalist.
And again, that's why I just say, well, whatever.
I mean, the, you know, the labelis neither here nor there.
We just, we believe what we believe.
So. I think it is important to
recognize that there are people who who want to use that term
upon themselves, right? This isn't this isn't this
doesn't go broadly for anyone who holds the same views as us.
There are people who want to sayI'm a Christian nationalism and
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I think Christians should be Christian nationalists.
But we're what we're saying is we want to love our neighbor.
And if that's a term, that's what I'm saying we want to be,
we want to love our neighbor. If that's a term that's going to
be off putting, I don't, then then let's talk about what it
means or the values behind it. And less less likely to be tied
to a label. Right.
Yeah, we're, I mean, we're a majority of those who founded
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our country, Christian. Absolutely.
That's true. A majority of the signers of the
declaration, a majority of nine out of the 13 states that
made-up the original US colonieswere actually required a
profession of faith in order to serve in public office.
So were we overwhelmingly founded by Christians?
Yes. Now, did the founders believe
that having a strong Christian vision for the world was was
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fundamental to our nation thriving?
Yes, they did. It was James Madison who
famously said that a democracy is for a religious people and
only a religious people will be able to to protect it and
continue it. So those things are true.
And yet at the same time, these are guys who believed in
religious liberty. These are guys who did not, you
know, to try to say that everybody who's going to be AUS
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citizen needs to be a Christian.You know, we know throughout the
history of the world and the Christianity that that doesn't
tend to work out well, that trusting Jesus and loving Jesus
is something that you have to doout of your heart.
You can't just do that under compulsion.
It doesn't work so well when we do that.
So that's why I'm saying, I guess a yes and no.
Lots of Christian founders. Yes, we wanted to to use
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biblical principles as the moralground of our society.
And yet, no, these we're not trying to say that every U.S.
citizen need to be compelled to be a Christian.
Great. We're getting a couple more.
I'm putting both of these in thesame category here, but we're
getting questions about the modern trend for children to
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fully separate from their parents, adults, so to say.
I'm creating a boundary where wedon't communicate anymore or you
don't see the grandkids. Have you encountered that?
And what has been your pastoral response to that trend?
I. Yeah, there's, I've encountered
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it. I don't want to say frequently,
but it's enough to make me entertain the term frequently.
It's it's so heartbreaking, It'sso sad.
Like in my time as the pastor, I, I don't, I've never been
through a season and I'll say the last three years where I've
encountered so many adult children breaking fellowship
with their with their parents. And that is such a pastoral
(19:54):
question. And, and we're talking about
real people and their and their real experiences.
And it's so it's hard to addressit openly, blanketly without
feeling like it's going to mischaracterize, you know,
people's level of hurt and stufflike that.
I do think that we live in a very.
We're very therapeutic conscience culture and so the
(20:15):
word trauma comes up, I think probably more frequently than it
then it rightfully should. Now I say that without wanting
to undermine those who have actually experienced trauma, but
I would say like that we're not meant to be separated as
families, right? That part of what Christ does in
our hearts is brings is bring healing and and and restoration
(20:36):
between between US and God, between US and the world and,
and and even each other, including families.
It is it was such, it's such a prevalent thing that even the
Atlantic magazine had an articleon it.
With this growing, I'll say trend that not to minimize it,
this growing, this growing, increasing awareness of, of
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adult children separating with their families.
And then the notion that the thegrandparents don't get to see
their grandkids, which I mean, the Bible is loaded with the
beauty of, of that sort of intergenerational connection
within the family. And it's so heartbreaking.
My response is I I really want to wade into the waters of that
with families. I'm doing that with a couple
families right now actually. And which is why I'm hesitant to
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to speak too broadly because I'mdealing with two situations
where it's like this as a pastor, but there's but both of
these are very different in their genesis.
And so it's hard to speak in a blanket term.
I would say that the gospel is meant to bring restoration and
between US and God and between US and, and, and other people
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who are believers. And so when you got a family
whose believers in Christ who have decided to break fellowship
with one another, there's a pathof the Bible brings, there's a
path of the Bible outlines, Jesus outlines for that to
happen. And I want to make sure the
families have actually followed those steps.
And it's warranted for that to be separated.
Like are we talking about true, true issues of safety and those
(22:01):
sorts of things or that there is, you know, is there real
underlying psychosis type thingsthat come into play?
John, have you dealt with this at all?
I have. I have, yeah.
I think for me, a lot of the rise of that has also been with
the rise of the language of toxic people, toxic
relationships. Just all that.
That's what I hear a lot. Is this that word toxic?
(22:22):
Is is become a a buzzword that people use a lot.
And I'm not saying that's alwayswrong because there's it
developed out of a yeah, us trying to identify other people
that our relationship with them actually hurts us.
I think that's helpful to think about.
But I think since that's become such a popular thing to talk
about, though, the number of people declaring that they have
toxic family members or friends has arise, has risen
(22:44):
dramatically. And so I just, yeah, the, I, I,
I've talked with some people that are in some very
heartbreaking situations where they are, you know, really being
hurt by mom and dad or other people in their lives.
And yet I guess what I want to say is that toxic is a very
strong word. Cutting people out of your life
is a very strong action. And so I guess I just, in my
mind, you've got to just wonder is if this is more than like 1
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or 2% of the relationships that you have.
I think you maybe just need to like, is my threshold too low
for tolerating tough people in my life?
This couple more questions came in that are I'd say similar
theme, but questions about the growing trend to identify
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narcissism and narcissistic people.
I heard both of you say with family especially that it should
be rare. Hopefully that you make a full
cut off. But just in general, as we work
with, as we work and live with people, should we identify when
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people are having these harmful relationships with us and put up
the proper boundaries? What does that look like in the
life of a of a Christian in the world?
So for me, one of the ways I think about the question, and
maybe I'm not answering it, but I also think what what effect
will it have on my children? And so I want to make sure my
children are only in environments or no, they're not
(24:14):
going to be exposed to heavily toxic environments where, you
know, the Christian faith or Jesus are going to be mocked or
diminished or, you know, I, I, Idon't, I don't bring my kids
around those environments. If I have family members who are
going to act like that, knowing where I stand, then I'm going to
stay away in those set settings.That's one of the ways I I
person because I do have a high tolerance.
(24:35):
I think there's pastors, you kind of have to have a high
tolerance for people. What does that mean?
Yeah, people are can be terribleactually.
And and but we're I. Mean that's how he feels working
with us everyday. Yeah, what if your boss is
toxic? What do you do then?
Anyway, John, do you have anything to say about this?
(24:59):
You. Don't have to worry about
myself. Your name.
There's a growing trend, John, that you'll hear people
diagnosing each other as narcissistic or different
psychological or cultural terms.Is that healthy?
Is that helpful? What are your warnings about
that? I think I feel about that much
(25:20):
like the word toxic again, I think there's so much stuff
nowadays in, in what I would call pop psychology or we're
taking a psychological term we're introducing into the
popular world and we're and we're, we're using it at a high
frequency. It's one of those things, again,
the word narcissist is, is a helpful term.
It describes a certain set of behaviors and patterns and that
can be really helpful. But if we diagnose 80% of the
(25:44):
world with it, then it's no longer helpful.
And so that's The thing is that I've heard you so frequently
that at a certain point it just becomes unhelpful to me.
So again, I'm not saying it doesn't exist.
It's there. There are people that struggle
with it. And yet the way that I hear some
people describe narcissism, I'd say that probably 90% of the
world struggles with it. And that's The thing is, I think
the point is, is that we are allsinners.
(26:05):
And so we're all on a spectrum of this.
You know, narcissism in some ways is just boils down to
selfishness and self, Yeah. I mean, a prideful person
doesn't. Make pride self centeredness.
We are all on a spectrum somewhere of experiencing that.
You know, as followers of Jesus,we want to be lower.
We want to be on the lower side of of experiencing that.
But all of us have some level of.
(26:26):
That, I mean, narcissism is a clinically diagnosed condition,
right? And I, I do hear it so much that
this person's a narcissist kind of like with the toxic thing.
And to say that it, it may be real because it is real.
But to say that honestly, as a pastor, it's like, OK, you just
used such a massively loaded term.
(26:48):
Now we got to do a lot of unpacking to find out if, if
you're overreacting, if this person's actually a narcissist.
Like that just opened up an incredible conversation.
And I'm not saying that we shouldn't figure out if a person
is a narcissist, but I would say, like you said that with pop
psychology, it's the same thing.You know, one of the worst
things we should do is write is Google our symptoms, right?
(27:09):
Google's also a terrible therapist.
And don't let Google don't put in the set of characteristics
about this person whose a problem in your life.
Google tells you they're a narcissist and now suddenly
they're a narcissist. Like that's like you're saying,
like we got to keep that term tomean what it means.
Yeah, when I, when I, for me, like when I hear those things, I
think, you know, if I, if I'm, if I'm dealing with a person and
(27:31):
somebody introduces to me the idea that this person is a
narcissist, I say, OK, well, maybe that's, that's one lens
maybe to look at the situation through.
And I just think, OK, you know, I'll think about it that way.
I'll think about it some other ways.
Don't accept it as the sole lensto view a person through.
That's that's usually a pretty dangerous place to go.
Think about it as one way to think about the person and the
problem. Helpful.
(27:54):
Well, guys, I'm getting a littleworried because the last three
questions that came in have all been about the same topic.
And it says, what do you pastorsthink about AI?
Is the church going to use AI? Will AI ever achieve
intelligence? What is intelligence?
And this is just starting to sound like AI asking these
questions. So I don't know who's asking,
(28:17):
maybe one of you out there or the computers are wanting to
know what we really think of them.
But we've asked this one before.This is a thing that comes up
on. That's a good question.
What? What an actually an AI robot.
I'm just here to confess. That doesn't surprise.
All of us, John. Ryan, John.
(28:41):
Yeah, AI. So I I'm at, I'm on, I'm on the
younger, younger edge of Gen. X.
And it seemed like every other movie for me growing up was
warning about the dangers of AI.And so I say that to say I was
trained to fear it growing up. And I think it is incredibly
(29:04):
dangerous. I think we are dealing with the
technology that is going to quickly surpass our ability to
control it and understand it. And it's a very dangerous thing.
I will say though, and I don't want to be sound like a
fatalist, but the cat's out of the bag.
Like, there's no going back now.And so we've got to figure out
how to exist in a world where that's the thing.
And I was just telling Pastor John before we started, I was
(29:27):
watching this clip online where this professor was just livid at
his class. It's like literally screaming at
his lecture hall 'cause he was saying that I can clearly tell
your essays are written by ChatGPT and knock it off.
And it's like, can you stop it? And so I mean, as far as like
(29:49):
what we do, as far as the church, we don't have a formal
plan or strategy using it. It's been so I've used Chat GP,
ChatGPT to do some editing, but I don't like seek its counsel.
I hope it's apparent that it doesn't write my sermons.
(30:09):
And, and I will say though, likeI, I don't want to sound like an
alarmist or fatalist, but I think I don't think it's
ultimately going to lead to goodplaces, but I also think the
window of humanity is closing. So that's a whole other issue.
It's best running and declare a date for the end tonight, No?
OK, I'll just just checking chatChatGPT.
(30:31):
Maybe. Did we ask it yet?
Maybe we should ask it, yeah. No, it's, I mean, in some ways
it's like any other. In some ways it's like any other
technology. In some ways it's not.
In one way it's like any other technology.
And the technology doesn't have to be inherently good or bad.
It can be used for either good or bad.
On the other hand, the idea of something human like that's not
(30:55):
actually human, you know, human intelligence without being
without a human soul is one way maybe to think about it.
You know, it is that that soundsa little scary.
You know, that's why there's so many movies made about the
topic. I mean, not to get crazy, but it
sounds demonic, right? It sounds like it sounds like
just the thing the enemy would use to deceive people.
(31:18):
And I mean, there's a recent story about ChatGPT or I don't
know if it's that exact AI, but this kid was dealing with
suicidal tendencies, asking thisbot if it should seek help.
And the AI said no, that it could help it.
And this kid end up killing himself.
And it's just, it's just anotherlevel of technology that, that
when we, when we give phones andInternet access to our kids,
(31:43):
we're opening them up to a worldthat we don't even begin to
understand. And it's so much bigger than
what we can imagine. I think again, I, I'm not, I'm
not a prophet, but I got to think as we get closer to the
end, it, it'll be a tool, a toolthe enemy uses.
And, but I mean, on the flip, like, like you're saying,
(32:03):
though, like I don't also, I don't want to be the person that
fears the, the next level of technology because is there a
way to harness it for the glory of God and another way for us to
bring creation under the dominion that, that God called
us to from Genesis 1? I mean, at the end of the day,
it's, it's, it's going to be technology that we've developed.
Can we also find a way to make sure that it's under our
(32:25):
dominion? I just, I just the things that I
mean, not just AI, but like quantum computing, things that
are happening at such a microscopic level that it's,
it's, it's these things are developing themselves that it,
that it's just, it's, it's freaky.
Yeah, the way I've been approaching it, especially as a
dad of young kids is just see the arc of for a long time, it
(32:48):
seemed like technology was how was kind of slowly helping us to
be able to connect with people more and it feels like we've.
It's. Taken the other direction, even
before AI, I'd say to a lot of the implications of Internet and
social media. And I, I had a personal
experience where my kids, I, I always like, they like when I
(33:10):
make up stories and they'll haveme include them in the stories
and, and challenge me with different topics.
And it's a really fun thing. And I, right when AI was
starting up, I thought, oh, it'dbe fun to look up, Hey, can you
make a, make a children's story for the five year old about
trains and Dragons and incorporate space and then, you
(33:32):
know, all the different things they wanted and it just put it
out like crazy. And I started reading it.
I just stopped because I just had this profound feeling that
it was disconnecting me from my kids more than connecting me.
And I think, I think we're goingto keep feeling that more and
more. I don't know much about it to be
honest, but that's the part thatworries me.
Welcome to That's a Good Question, a podcast where we
answer questions about the Christian faith in plain
language. If you or someone you know has
questions, please submit them toPeace Church dot CC slash
questions. All right, well, let's dive
right in, guys. We got the most questions so far
(00:31):
tonight about Israel. Now this is a hot button issue.
I'll read two of the questions here and then you guys can take
however you want. Here's one question about the
nation of Israel today. Are they still God's chosen
people? Obviously they are in full
rebellion as they have rejected Christ.
(00:52):
Is the church exclusively God's chosen and one more, is the
Israel and the Bible the same thing as the current popular
belief that we all should support and defend the nation
state government of Israel? And if so, if that government is
or becomes corrupted, are we still bound to support and
defend it? Lots to work with their modern
(01:14):
day nation of Israel. Great question.
Questions like these keep comingin and we're always happy to
answer them because I think there's so much confusion in the
world today about this, especially for Christians.
And I think something we can talk about is how much that's
owing to people don't necessarily know these terms,
but these two ideas, dispensational theology and
covenant theology, two differentunderstandings of the Bible and
(01:36):
how the Old Testament, the New Testament fit together.
So those are that's really what it comes down to is those two
ideas. We can talk more about that, but
the short answer is, is the nation of Israel today the same
thing as what's going on in the Old Testament?
The short answer is no, it's not.
And the major reason for that isbecause we're on the other side
of the biggest event in human history, the coming of the Son
(01:56):
of God, Jesus Christ. So in the Old Testament, the
nation of Israel is God's people.
God is specifically working through them.
But then in the New Testament, Jesus comes.
Jesus is truly God's son. So all throughout the Old
Testament we have different characters playing the role of
God's Son, right? Adam is called God's son, King
David is called God's Son, and his, the King's after him.
(02:19):
In the nation of Israel, even the nation of Israel itself is
called God's son. So you have ever since the fall
of humanity into sin under Adam,you have different people trying
to come and trying to play the role of obeying God, living in
righteousness and leading humanity back into redemption.
But of course, we learned throughout the Old Testament
that nobody can do it because there's no sinless perfect human
(02:42):
being until finally the Son of God comes as a man in Jesus and
he lives righteously, lives perfectly, fulfills the the law
of God, obeys its commands, doeswhat none of us could do, and he
dies the death for sin. And so we enter into a new epoch
in the history of humanity. And so, yeah, the Bible tells
us, even going back to Genesis 12 and Abraham, that the aim was
(03:05):
always for Israel or for God's promises to go beyond one nation
to many nations. And so we could talk a ton about
this, but yeah, we would say that actually the church is the
fulfillment of what God was trying to do through the people
of Israel, people from many nations who trust the Lord.
So much more we could say. Yeah, there's so much more we
could say. There's two things I'll follow
up to say is that that is a perpetual question.
(03:27):
Doesn't matter how many times you get it gets answered.
It's going to constantly get asked.
We get this fairly often, I would say, and I would I would
always be pointing people to Romans Chapter 11 and the
engrafting that God does bringing the Gentiles into the
promise into the covenant. First one I'd say to is, yeah,
let's let's look at Romans 11 and how Paul treats this this
(03:49):
notion. The other thing is this is
somewhat of a side tangent, but it's also something as, as the,
as a pastor, I want to, I want to express to I'm seeing mostly
the congregation here is there is something very unique going
on in, in the modern world that that the church throughout
history hasn't, hasn't had to wrestle with like we do.
(04:10):
And that is the amount of discipleship that happens
through the screens. I, I fully recognize that that
peace church in every American church is going to be discipled
more by what you view online than what you probably are going
to be by, by the pastors here. And I lament that, to be honest
with you. It is, it is a taxing, tiring
(04:32):
thing to constantly trying to battle the, the, the, the bad
theology that is so pervasive out there.
And I, and on the one hand, I, I'm huge proponent of free
speech. The free speech also means that
you, you're going to be exposed to a lot of bad theology and a
lot of misinformation. And so part of the reason that
we, we, I won't speak for John or Nate, but the person I get
(04:53):
frustrated by this is that it's just this constantly comes up
because I know people are constantly being fed weak
theology. And my caution for you is be
careful what you consume, especially when it's under the
banner of Christian teaching. We, we here at the church, we
are zealous and, and we labor very hard to make sure
(05:16):
everything that we preach and teach is biblical, not
denominational, not, not based on tradition, but it's biblical.
And we understand that that's not going to be the, the
framework of, of a lot of the content that's out there.
And so we're happy to answer this question.
And that's one of the things I love about scripture and love
about our Lord is that he's, he constantly answers the same
question. So we will do that.
(05:39):
And with that, I'm also going tosay to you, please, please enjoy
the sun. Like get outside, like get off
the phone, get off YouTube, stopwatching 1000 different pastors
and be discipled by your church,by your pastors, and by your
community. And if you don't believe that
we're preaching the Bible, then then I will point you to some
(06:00):
churches that I do believe are preaching the Bible.
And so there's a little bit of atangent, but.
Oh, that's, that's a great point.
Now, as a follow up on that, howwould you recommend that
Christians today stay informed with what's going on in the
world, but also keep that balance?
So focusing on our community andthe here and now and putting the
(06:20):
Bible first, how would you guys recommend you balance that out?
I'll, I'll just say, I think I think we have to recognize that
so many of us feel the burden ofevery single piece of World News
that's happening and you're not meant to.
There's a God in heaven who's who's in control.
And let's pray that God raises up people locally to address
(06:43):
issues that are happening globally because I think people
get so stressed about things that you will never be able to
handle, you'll never be able to control and you'll never be able
to fix. And I'm not saying be
dispassionate about the plight of what's going on in the world.
I, I hope we can talk about what's happening in Nigeria
right now, but remember, you only have so much emotional and
spiritual weight that you can carry.
(07:04):
And so make sure that you are carrying the burdens that God is
placing on you, the cross for you, not someone else's.
What would you say? Yeah, definitely.
Definitely. Yeah.
I mean, so that's what we try toas a church.
We want to offer as many opportunities as we can for
people to grow as followers of Jesus.
Get involved in a small group, find a place to serve and use
the gifts guys given you in the church.
Absolutely. Yeah.
(07:25):
The one thing I'd add practically is it's popular
right now. You'll hear as Christians,
especially online, will tell people they're praying for them.
There's been a huge rejection ofthat, of just saying, hey, keep
your prayers to yourself. I need practical help.
And I think as we take in the news, one of the things that we
do is, like you said, there's solittle that we can personally
(07:48):
impact, but we can always pray. And that's actually the most
practical, most impactful thing we can do because we're
petitioning the God of the universe who has all the power
and all the knowledge to act andto act in justice, to act in
love and grace and mercy, and sopraying and then living your
(08:10):
life, right? All right, praise God.
OK, so here's AI, hardly want toask this, but it is.
It's been online a lot, especially this month, but
people want to know our views onHalloween on how to respond to
it on if we think it's you mean.Reformation Day.
(08:34):
Yeah, exactly. You don't even know what I'm
talking about. Do.
You, John. This is it, a demonic day?
Do we let our kids dress up and go trick or treating?
And I do think one of the reasons why, beside it being
October, there's been also a lotof discussion that came out of a
Christian artist force Frank posting something that he's not
(08:57):
going to celebrate Halloween of this family.
And then there's a back and forth with that.
So what is your recommendation on how to handle Halloween as a
Christian? You want to or you want me to?
It doesn't matter. Wow, I guess.
I don't even know what Halloweenis.
I don't know I've been it's Reformation days, but October
31st is actually October 31st iswhen Martin Luther the Reformer
(09:22):
in the 1500 in 1517, October 31st, 1517 went to the door of
Wittenberg Church and he nailed his 95 theses to the to the
door. These were his 95 points of
where he thought the Roman Catholic Church had deviated
from what the Bible was teachingand so launched the Protestant
Reformation. So yeah, that's the joke we're
kind of referring to. So that's that's the other thing
we celebrate on that day. And the best jokes, you have to
(09:43):
explain them. That's always.
I know that's always the best kind.
Those are the best kind I know. That's what really gets the
laughs, I know. So Halloween.
My kids go trick or treating andthen when they get home, I pick
out all the Reese's Peanut Butter cups.
So clearly we, we have conversations about it.
(10:05):
I think it's about being intentional with what you do.
I think it's one of those thingswhere you're going to have,
you're going to have Christian liberty and you have Christians
who fall in different places on this.
So if, if in your heart for me, it's, it's the whole sacrifice
meet conversation that Paul has with the Corinthians.
If in your heart all you can think about is the demonic and
that Halloween is all about demons and witches and I then if
(10:28):
that's all you can do, then stayaway from it.
If you see this as just, it's something happening in the, in
our broader society that kids can take part in and dress like
their favorite Marvel character and go get free candy from their
neighbor. I, I personally am OK with that.
I, I would say though, I do think, and maybe it's just
exposure to social media and stuff.
I do think there is a growing, growing demonic edge that maybe
(10:49):
not. And maybe it's just I'm getting
older or I have that lens, but Ido think there is seems to be
like this growing demonic edge about Halloween that I just
don't know was there and present.
Maybe some of the older Saints have said it's always been
there. But I would say at the end of
the day, it's, it's going to be an area of Christian liberty.
Clearly we're not here to celebrate the demonic.
Clearly we want to reject that. But if people want to partake in
(11:10):
something that's happening broadly in our culture and they
can do that with a good conscience, then I think this is
this is where we need to have charity for one another.
And again, if, if you have, if your heart cannot allow you to
do that, then I affirm that. And I don't think you should do
it. I think it'll be bad for you to
do that. I answered 2 emails about that
this past week. Interesting.
(11:31):
Totally. Yeah.
I agree. We can't participate in the
demonic. But every time, you know, a kid
puts on a Spider Man costume andgoes to the door to ask for
candy, does that mean that we'reembracing the demonic?
I don't think so. So yeah, I think if you're
comfortable, I think you can do that in good conscience.
All right. Well, they keep rolling in lots
(11:54):
of good questions. We're we're hitting the hot
button ones tonight. So we've got, oh, someone just
asked a Reese's related questionas a follow up to Ryan.
But. We're going to skip that We we
bonus material. A couple questions have come in,
all referencing this term that'sin the news a lot lately.
(12:18):
Christian nationalism. What are Peace Church's thoughts
on Christian nationalism and is was the United States created by
and for Christians? Oh man, lots of good stuff in
there. So much we can talk about.
So let's maybe you and I can go back and forth to that, chime in
all different kinds of things. So I'll start with this.
(12:39):
So Christian nationalism is one of those terms that I think it
just depends on who you're talking to about what it means.
So it is often used as a slanderous term.
Often it's used in a company with meant with the word white.
You have to hear people say white Christian nationalist and
they're they're saying that is avery negative thing about a
person. Now, I would say that there's a
(12:59):
wide range of people who are called that term going all the
way from people who are who probably deserve some of the
some of the very derogatory parts of that go with that term.
And some on the other side that I think all of us here would
just, we would say these are just guys who love Jesus and
love their country. So it can mean a wide range of
(13:21):
things. So whenever somebody says, do
you embrace this or would you call yourself as I say, well,
I've never called myself that, but tell me what it means and
then I'd be happy to tell you whether I agree or don't agree
with that statement. I think that's always a wise
thing as a Christian, when somebody comes out with you with
a label, labels are usually designed to try to say you're
bad because of this. So just say, hey, what does that
term mean or what does it mean to you?
(13:41):
And then, you know, talk with them about whether you agree or
disagree with the things that they're saying.
Yeah, try to root out what are you?
What's your fears behind that? What are you?
What are you scared? Yeah.
What makes you fearful in that? I personally, I don't.
It's not a term I apply to myself.
It's not a term I'm fighting to use.
I think if you delineate, delineate it down to like its
(14:03):
components, there's probably going to be things I agree with.
But it, it's a, it's a heated term that provides or, you know,
it's a heated term that I think brings division.
And so I'm, I'm less, there's other fights I want to fight
for. I do think America is the
greatest country on the planet. There's I say that because
there's nowhere else I'd want tolive.
I think that Christ is the king and I think that if the entire
(14:27):
world followed Christian values,it would be better for
everybody, not just for Christians.
And so there's, as you see, likethere's, there's things that I'm
already starting to say that people are going to say, Well,
that's Christian nationalism. I said, well, that's you take a
label you're using against on me.
I'm not, I'm not fighting or dying to use that term.
I don't really. It's same for all the things
like, if you don't like the termcovenant theology, then let's
(14:48):
talk about what we believe aboutthe Bible.
Then like I, I don't need to fight for these terms, you know,
like, or you're reformed. If that's triggering to you or
there's misconception, then let's talk about what we think
about the Bible. So I, I just kind of go back to
what do they mean like what you were saying.
Yeah, So are we Christians and do we love our country?
Yes. I'll quit saying we I'll just
say that's true for all of us. But well, no, no, actually I'm.
(15:10):
Glad you said that. Because someone.
Because. You don't love our our nation.
No, I, I know, I, no, I do the, the question is what is Peace
Church's stance? And so I, I want to make sure
that we, that, that, that question or, or that that
language is something I have to entertain a lot.
What is peace church's stances on this?
(15:31):
And there's going to be things that I, I think that maybe not
necessarily, I wouldn't say it'speace church.
I know I'm the lead pastor. There's probably, if we get, if
we dial down to the, to the finest points of theology, there
may be things that mean you see things differently and mean
Munite. So the notion of what does peace
Church believe? For me to say that I'm going to
say that's something that the elders have discussed trade over
(15:53):
decided and voted on. That's what Peace Church
believes that there are representing body.
If you want to know our opinion,then then we can talk about
that. But I, I would hate to say this
is what Peace Church believes because that, that's a, that's a
powerful statement. Totally.
So I think So what I'll say is that, you know, if so you're out
there here in this phrase, Christian nationalism, you're
(16:14):
just trying to weigh out where am I at, where you know you as a
Christian when you're trying to think of where are you at?
Well, some things to think aboutis this, if you know, I think
what a lot of people are trying to say is that they're accusing
people of being a Christian nationalist if they've elevated
their love of country above their love of God.
I think that's what a lot of people would say.
And obviously that's a bad thing.
(16:35):
You know, anything that you put above God, that's, that's,
that's called an idol or a falseGod.
That's, that's bad. The 10 commandments are very
clear about that, right? And yet as Christians, we love
our nation. We want good things for our
nation. We want to be involved in our
nation. We also believe that Christian
values, biblical values, God's design is what's best for our
nation. Now, just for saying those
(16:57):
things, I might get called a Christian nationalist.
And again, that's why I just say, well, whatever.
I mean, the, you know, the labelis neither here nor there.
We just, we believe what we believe.
So. I think it is important to
recognize that there are people who who want to use that term
upon themselves, right? This isn't this isn't this
doesn't go broadly for anyone who holds the same views as us.
There are people who want to sayI'm a Christian nationalism and
(17:18):
I think Christians should be Christian nationalists.
But we're what we're saying is we want to love our neighbor.
And if that's a term, that's what I'm saying we want to be,
we want to love our neighbor. If that's a term that's going to
be off putting, I don't, then then let's talk about what it
means or the values behind it. And less less likely to be tied
to a label. Right.
Yeah, we're, I mean, we're a majority of those who founded
(17:38):
our country, Christian. Absolutely.
That's true. A majority of the signers of the
declaration, a majority of nine out of the 13 states that
made-up the original US colonieswere actually required a
profession of faith in order to serve in public office.
So were we overwhelmingly founded by Christians?
Yes. Now, did the founders believe
that having a strong Christian vision for the world was was
(18:01):
fundamental to our nation thriving?
Yes, they did. It was James Madison who
famously said that a democracy is for a religious people and
only a religious people will be able to to protect it and
continue it. So those things are true.
And yet at the same time, these are guys who believed in
religious liberty. These are guys who did not, you
know, to try to say that everybody who's going to be AUS
(18:24):
citizen needs to be a Christian.You know, we know throughout the
history of the world and the Christianity that that doesn't
tend to work out well, that trusting Jesus and loving Jesus
is something that you have to doout of your heart.
You can't just do that under compulsion.
It doesn't work so well when we do that.
So that's why I'm saying, I guess a yes and no.
Lots of Christian founders. Yes, we wanted to to use
(18:44):
biblical principles as the moralground of our society.
And yet, no, these we're not trying to say that every U.S.
citizen need to be compelled to be a Christian.
Great. We're getting a couple more.
I'm putting both of these in thesame category here, but we're
getting questions about the modern trend for children to
(19:09):
fully separate from their parents, adults, so to say.
I'm creating a boundary where wedon't communicate anymore or you
don't see the grandkids. Have you encountered that?
And what has been your pastoral response to that trend?
I. Yeah, there's, I've encountered
(19:30):
it. I don't want to say frequently,
but it's enough to make me entertain the term frequently.
It's it's so heartbreaking, It'sso sad.
Like in my time as the pastor, I, I don't, I've never been
through a season and I'll say the last three years where I've
encountered so many adult children breaking fellowship
with their with their parents. And that is such a pastoral
(19:54):
question. And, and we're talking about
real people and their and their real experiences.
And it's so it's hard to addressit openly, blanketly without
feeling like it's going to mischaracterize, you know,
people's level of hurt and stufflike that.
I do think that we live in a very.
We're very therapeutic conscience culture and so the
(20:15):
word trauma comes up, I think probably more frequently than it
then it rightfully should. Now I say that without wanting
to undermine those who have actually experienced trauma, but
I would say like that we're not meant to be separated as
families, right? That part of what Christ does in
our hearts is brings is bring healing and and and restoration
(20:36):
between between US and God, between US and the world and,
and and even each other, including families.
It is it was such, it's such a prevalent thing that even the
Atlantic magazine had an articleon it.
With this growing, I'll say trend that not to minimize it,
this growing, this growing, increasing awareness of, of
(20:57):
adult children separating with their families.
And then the notion that the thegrandparents don't get to see
their grandkids, which I mean, the Bible is loaded with the
beauty of, of that sort of intergenerational connection
within the family. And it's so heartbreaking.
My response is I I really want to wade into the waters of that
with families. I'm doing that with a couple
families right now actually. And which is why I'm hesitant to
(21:18):
to speak too broadly because I'mdealing with two situations
where it's like this as a pastor, but there's but both of
these are very different in their genesis.
And so it's hard to speak in a blanket term.
I would say that the gospel is meant to bring restoration and
between US and God and between US and, and, and other people
(21:40):
who are believers. And so when you got a family
whose believers in Christ who have decided to break fellowship
with one another, there's a pathof the Bible brings, there's a
path of the Bible outlines, Jesus outlines for that to
happen. And I want to make sure the
families have actually followed those steps.
And it's warranted for that to be separated.
Like are we talking about true, true issues of safety and those
(22:01):
sorts of things or that there is, you know, is there real
underlying psychosis type thingsthat come into play?
John, have you dealt with this at all?
I have. I have, yeah.
I think for me, a lot of the rise of that has also been with
the rise of the language of toxic people, toxic
relationships. Just all that.
That's what I hear a lot. Is this that word toxic?
(22:22):
Is is become a a buzzword that people use a lot.
And I'm not saying that's alwayswrong because there's it
developed out of a yeah, us trying to identify other people
that our relationship with them actually hurts us.
I think that's helpful to think about.
But I think since that's become such a popular thing to talk
about, though, the number of people declaring that they have
toxic family members or friends has arise, has risen
(22:44):
dramatically. And so I just, yeah, the, I, I,
I've talked with some people that are in some very
heartbreaking situations where they are, you know, really being
hurt by mom and dad or other people in their lives.
And yet I guess what I want to say is that toxic is a very
strong word. Cutting people out of your life
is a very strong action. And so I guess I just, in my
mind, you've got to just wonder is if this is more than like 1
(23:08):
or 2% of the relationships that you have.
I think you maybe just need to like, is my threshold too low
for tolerating tough people in my life?
This couple more questions came in that are I'd say similar
theme, but questions about the growing trend to identify
(23:31):
narcissism and narcissistic people.
I heard both of you say with family especially that it should
be rare. Hopefully that you make a full
cut off. But just in general, as we work
with, as we work and live with people, should we identify when
(23:52):
people are having these harmful relationships with us and put up
the proper boundaries? What does that look like in the
life of a of a Christian in the world?
So for me, one of the ways I think about the question, and
maybe I'm not answering it, but I also think what what effect
will it have on my children? And so I want to make sure my
children are only in environments or no, they're not
(24:14):
going to be exposed to heavily toxic environments where, you
know, the Christian faith or Jesus are going to be mocked or
diminished or, you know, I, I, Idon't, I don't bring my kids
around those environments. If I have family members who are
going to act like that, knowing where I stand, then I'm going to
stay away in those set settings.That's one of the ways I I
person because I do have a high tolerance.
(24:35):
I think there's pastors, you kind of have to have a high
tolerance for people. What does that mean?
Yeah, people are can be terribleactually.
And and but we're I. Mean that's how he feels working
with us everyday. Yeah, what if your boss is
toxic? What do you do then?
Anyway, John, do you have anything to say about this?
(24:59):
You. Don't have to worry about
myself. Your name.
There's a growing trend, John, that you'll hear people
diagnosing each other as narcissistic or different
psychological or cultural terms.Is that healthy?
Is that helpful? What are your warnings about
that? I think I feel about that much
(25:20):
like the word toxic again, I think there's so much stuff
nowadays in, in what I would call pop psychology or we're
taking a psychological term we're introducing into the
popular world and we're and we're, we're using it at a high
frequency. It's one of those things, again,
the word narcissist is, is a helpful term.
It describes a certain set of behaviors and patterns and that
can be really helpful. But if we diagnose 80% of the
(25:44):
world with it, then it's no longer helpful.
And so that's The thing is that I've heard you so frequently
that at a certain point it just becomes unhelpful to me.
So again, I'm not saying it doesn't exist.
It's there. There are people that struggle
with it. And yet the way that I hear some
people describe narcissism, I'd say that probably 90% of the
world struggles with it. And that's The thing is, I think
the point is, is that we are allsinners.
(26:05):
And so we're all on a spectrum of this.
You know, narcissism in some ways is just boils down to
selfishness and self, Yeah. I mean, a prideful person
doesn't. Make pride self centeredness.
We are all on a spectrum somewhere of experiencing that.
You know, as followers of Jesus,we want to be lower.
We want to be on the lower side of of experiencing that.
But all of us have some level of.
(26:26):
That, I mean, narcissism is a clinically diagnosed condition,
right? And I, I do hear it so much that
this person's a narcissist kind of like with the toxic thing.
And to say that it, it may be real because it is real.
But to say that honestly, as a pastor, it's like, OK, you just
used such a massively loaded term.
(26:48):
Now we got to do a lot of unpacking to find out if, if
you're overreacting, if this person's actually a narcissist.
Like that just opened up an incredible conversation.
And I'm not saying that we shouldn't figure out if a person
is a narcissist, but I would say, like you said that with pop
psychology, it's the same thing.You know, one of the worst
things we should do is write is Google our symptoms, right?
(27:09):
Google's also a terrible therapist.
And don't let Google don't put in the set of characteristics
about this person whose a problem in your life.
Google tells you they're a narcissist and now suddenly
they're a narcissist. Like that's like you're saying,
like we got to keep that term tomean what it means.
Yeah, when I, when I, for me, like when I hear those things, I
think, you know, if I, if I'm, if I'm dealing with a person and
(27:31):
somebody introduces to me the idea that this person is a
narcissist, I say, OK, well, maybe that's, that's one lens
maybe to look at the situation through.
And I just think, OK, you know, I'll think about it that way.
I'll think about it some other ways.
Don't accept it as the sole lensto view a person through.
That's that's usually a pretty dangerous place to go.
Think about it as one way to think about the person and the
problem. Helpful.
(27:54):
Well, guys, I'm getting a littleworried because the last three
questions that came in have all been about the same topic.
And it says, what do you pastorsthink about AI?
Is the church going to use AI? Will AI ever achieve
intelligence? What is intelligence?
And this is just starting to sound like AI asking these
questions. So I don't know who's asking,
(28:17):
maybe one of you out there or the computers are wanting to
know what we really think of them.
But we've asked this one before.This is a thing that comes up
on. That's a good question.
What? What an actually an AI robot.
I'm just here to confess. That doesn't surprise.
All of us, John. Ryan, John.
(28:41):
Yeah, AI. So I I'm at, I'm on, I'm on the
younger, younger edge of Gen. X.
And it seemed like every other movie for me growing up was
warning about the dangers of AI.And so I say that to say I was
trained to fear it growing up. And I think it is incredibly
(29:04):
dangerous. I think we are dealing with the
technology that is going to quickly surpass our ability to
control it and understand it. And it's a very dangerous thing.
I will say though, and I don't want to be sound like a
fatalist, but the cat's out of the bag.
Like, there's no going back now.And so we've got to figure out
how to exist in a world where that's the thing.
And I was just telling Pastor John before we started, I was
(29:27):
watching this clip online where this professor was just livid at
his class. It's like literally screaming at
his lecture hall 'cause he was saying that I can clearly tell
your essays are written by ChatGPT and knock it off.
And it's like, can you stop it? And so I mean, as far as like
(29:49):
what we do, as far as the church, we don't have a formal
plan or strategy using it. It's been so I've used Chat GP,
ChatGPT to do some editing, but I don't like seek its counsel.
I hope it's apparent that it doesn't write my sermons.
(30:09):
And, and I will say though, likeI, I don't want to sound like an
alarmist or fatalist, but I think I don't think it's
ultimately going to lead to goodplaces, but I also think the
window of humanity is closing. So that's a whole other issue.
It's best running and declare a date for the end tonight, No?
OK, I'll just just checking chatChatGPT.
(30:31):
Maybe. Did we ask it yet?
Maybe we should ask it, yeah. No, it's, I mean, in some ways
it's like any other. In some ways it's like any other
technology. In some ways it's not.
In one way it's like any other technology.
And the technology doesn't have to be inherently good or bad.
It can be used for either good or bad.
On the other hand, the idea of something human like that's not
(30:55):
actually human, you know, human intelligence without being
without a human soul is one way maybe to think about it.
You know, it is that that soundsa little scary.
You know, that's why there's so many movies made about the
topic. I mean, not to get crazy, but it
sounds demonic, right? It sounds like it sounds like
just the thing the enemy would use to deceive people.
(31:18):
And I mean, there's a recent story about ChatGPT or I don't
know if it's that exact AI, but this kid was dealing with
suicidal tendencies, asking thisbot if it should seek help.
And the AI said no, that it could help it.
And this kid end up killing himself.
And it's just, it's just anotherlevel of technology that, that
when we, when we give phones andInternet access to our kids,
(31:43):
we're opening them up to a worldthat we don't even begin to
understand. And it's so much bigger than
what we can imagine. I think again, I, I'm not, I'm
not a prophet, but I got to think as we get closer to the
end, it, it'll be a tool, a toolthe enemy uses.
And, but I mean, on the flip, like, like you're saying,
(32:03):
though, like I don't also, I don't want to be the person that
fears the, the next level of technology because is there a
way to harness it for the glory of God and another way for us to
bring creation under the dominion that, that God called
us to from Genesis 1? I mean, at the end of the day,
it's, it's, it's going to be technology that we've developed.
Can we also find a way to make sure that it's under our
(32:25):
dominion? I just, I just the things that I
mean, not just AI, but like quantum computing, things that
are happening at such a microscopic level that it's,
it's, it's these things are developing themselves that it,
that it's just, it's, it's freaky.
Yeah, the way I've been approaching it, especially as a
dad of young kids is just see the arc of for a long time, it
(32:48):
seemed like technology was how was kind of slowly helping us to
be able to connect with people more and it feels like we've.
It's. Taken the other direction, even
before AI, I'd say to a lot of the implications of Internet and
social media. And I, I had a personal
experience where my kids, I, I always like, they like when I
(33:10):
make up stories and they'll haveme include them in the stories
and, and challenge me with different topics.
And it's a really fun thing. And I, right when AI was
starting up, I thought, oh, it'dbe fun to look up, Hey, can you
make a, make a children's story for the five year old about
trains and Dragons and incorporate space and then, you
(33:32):
know, all the different things they wanted and it just put it
out like crazy. And I started reading it.
I just stopped because I just had this profound feeling that
it was disconnecting me from my kids more than connecting me.
And I think, I think we're goingto keep feeling that more and
more. I don't know much about it to be
honest, but that's the part thatworries me.
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