As I sat down with Dana Diaz, her story unfurled like a map to uncharted territories of the human spirit—her triumph over narcissistic abuse a beacon to all who have weathered similar storms.
This episode is a tapestry woven with the threads of Dana's resilience and wisdom, a detailed account of the insidious patterns of control and manipulation characteristic of narcissism.
We delve into the essential tools for recovery, from the pillars of self-awareness and solid support systems to the profound healing in the written word.
Dana's transformation into an empowered advocate and author is a testament to the power of reclaiming one's self-worth and the liberation that follows.
Embarking on a personal odyssey with Dana, we trace the roots of her strength back to a challenging childhood, learning how adversity can sow seeds of determination and compassion. Her heartfelt narrative encompasses the metamorphosis from being silenced to speaking out for those who've suffered in the shadows.
Dana's passage through DePaul University and her lifelong mission to help children of abuse underscore the cathartic journey from victimhood to finding one's voice and purpose in the most arduous circumstances.
The episode culminates in a robust discussion on the misconceptions shadowing narcissistic abuse advocacy. Dana provides a mirror for listeners to examine their own experiences with codependency and stigma, offering solace and strategies to navigate these complex waters.
We also touch upon the underestimated power of journaling as a vessel for reflection and transformation. It's a call for persistence in the face of hardships, a reminder of the indomitable human spirit, and an affirmation that everyone is worthy of feeling valued and capable of profound change.
Check out Dana's books on Amazon.com
Connect at
TEXT ME here - Have a question? Comment? Feedback? I’d love to hear from you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dai Manuel (00:07):
Welcome to the 2% Solution podcast, where we dive
into stories that inspire andactions that transform.
I'm your host, ty Manuel, andtoday we're embarking on a
journey of resilience, recoveryand empowerment with an
incredibly courageous guest,dana Diaz.
With an incredibly courageousguest, dana Diaz.
Dana brings us a story not justof survival, but of flourishing
(00:28):
, after enduring years ofnarcissistic abuse, from a
challenging childhood to a25-year marriage that tested her
to the core.
Dana's experiences have shapedher into not only a survivor but
a beacon of hope for othersfacing similar trials.
Today, she shares her insightsinto recognizing and overcoming
(00:49):
the invisible chains ofemotional abuse.
In this episode, Dana willunpack the complex world of
narcissism, shedding light onhow malignant narcissists
operate, their lack of empathyand the patterns of control and
abuse they weave.
More importantly, she'll shareher personal catharsis through
writing and journaling, whichled her to her profound healing
(01:09):
and her mission to help others.
The takeaways from today's talkare vital Power of
self-awareness, the importanceof support systems and the
healing that comes from sharingyour story.
Dana has turned her pain intoempowerment, authoring books
that reach out to those stilltrapped in the shadows of
manipulation.
So if you're ready to learn howyou can spot, stop and move
(01:32):
beyond narcissistic abuse, or ifyou just need a dose of
inspiration to remind you of thestrength of the human spirit,
you're in the right place.
Make sure to check out the shownotes for links to Dana's books
and resources and get ready tobe inspired.
This episode is a call to actionfor all of us to understand
more deeply, act more decisivelyand uplift each other in our
(01:54):
darkest times.
Stay tuned as we explore thesepowerful themes with Dana Diaz,
right here on the 2% SolutionPodcast.
Let's get started on the 2%Solution Podcast.
Let's get started.
All right, welcome back to the2% Solution Podcast.
As I said in the intro, I'msuper excited for today's guest,
(02:14):
dana, and I thought the lastname was Diaz.
That's how I knew her, but Isee today on the Zoom poll it's
Studeman.
So what do you go by?
Dana Diaz (02:24):
Dana.
Well, dana S Diaz, the Sudomitis the S, that is my nod to my
current husband.
But I am me, I am the original,you know, born Dana Diaz.
So we're going with it.
I love it.
I love it.
Dai Manuel (02:44):
All of me.
Oh, it's so good.
Well, I'm excited to have youhere today, dana, and, as I
mentioned in the intro, just torecap, I know you're an author,
you're a speaker, and what I'mmost impressed by is your
advocacy work for victims ofnarcissistic abuse, specifically
the vulnerability that you usewith sharing your own personal
(03:06):
story, as well as how that'sbeen supportive in helping
others rediscover thatself-empowerment.
And so today I'm just excitedto talk and share a bit about
your story, but also to diveinto what the hell is narcissism
.
What is narcissism?
Because it's a buzzword we heara lot about nowadays, but do
people really know what it means?
I have to look it up, you knowlike, I have two teenage
(03:29):
daughters.
Well, they're 19 and 21 now, sothis has been very real
conversation, especially as theyare very much in the dating or
boyfriend world, and you knowI'm not going to name names, but
there's been some things I'venoticed.
Okay, so I'm excited to sharemy this podcast, our
conversation with my daughters.
Dana Diaz (03:46):
Okay, selfishly speaking, I think I could give
them a.
I could give them and everybodya quick lesson.
I mean, let's just get to it.
What is a narcissist?
Um, narcissist the wordactually comes from the name of
the greek god narcissist.
The guy liked to look athimself in the water because his
reflection I guess he was hotor something, I don't know, but
(04:09):
he wasn't bothering anybody.
I can't say he was abusive ornot, I didn't know him, but
these are the people we see onsocial media and we all see them
with their abs and their lashesand whatever.
They usually look as good asthey think they look, so we
cannot hate on them.
They might annoy you with howmuch they post about themselves
(04:30):
and how great they are, butthey're not bothering anybody.
Now, what we have come to know anarcissist to be and what we
are talking about here today,are narcissists who are so
obsessed with feeling superiorto other people.
Some actually do think thatthey're superior and above
(04:53):
everything, including the law.
Some actually have a deepseated insecurity so they seek
the admiration and praise tofulfill their ego.
But these are people that, onthe low end of things, I always
say they're like tumors.
A benign tumor is there.
It's not bothering you, it'sjust what it is.
The malignant tumor can causeyou problems, it can kill you.
(05:16):
It's got to go.
These are the narcissists, thosemalignant ones that I'm talking
about, because the problem withthem is that they will enact
any and all forms of abusephysical, verbal, psychological,
sexual, legal, financial.
They will do anything they haveto do to maintain their control
(05:38):
over you so that they feel soall-powerful and exalted and so
important.
And it's disgusting, becauseit's unfortunate, that a lot of
these people realistically, ourUS prison population, the male
prison population specificallyI'm not picking on guys, because
women are narcissists too, butover 20-some percent of them are
(06:00):
identified narcissists and 38%of all women murdered are
murdered by their partner, andusually narcissistic partners.
So these are scary things.
It's a scary thing to be a girlin this world, but I will also
say that they're claiming 25% ofmen also experience, you know,
(06:21):
a relationship with anarcissistic woman.
So it goes both ways, but it'sscary nonetheless to think that
the odds are, you know, more inyour favor than not, but you
know there's a lot of awfulpeople out there.
You know that might harm you,so that they feel good about
themselves, and that's whatwe're talking about.
Dai Manuel (06:42):
Such a great explanation.
I really appreciate taking thetime to dive into that Dana,
because I know it is a hot topicand I know there's a lot of
triggering conversations aroundthis for people, especially
those that have dealt with justabuse on those different levels
that you described.
So you know, for thoselistening, I apologize, you know
(07:04):
, trigger warning that we'regoing to get into some real
stuff here as Dana shares herstory, um, but, but also just a
real quick note and somethingI'd like to ask before we dive
into your story, dan, of how youcame to be supporting people
with this is uh, I was doingsome up and I'm just why I'm
(07:26):
asking.
This is like the research thatI read or came across.
It says the very few areactually diagnosed with that
specifically, but there aredifferent, like people on the
autistic spectrum.
Dana Diaz (07:38):
There's a spectrum.
Dai Manuel (07:39):
There's a spectrum for narcissism, so is that that
is true?
Dana Diaz (07:43):
It's kind of the tumors you could go on the one
end.
I mean, let's be real, we allhave narcissistic tendencies,
sure?
Um?
The intent is where we, youknow, we look to see if it's
harmful to others or not.
Even it could be harmful toyourself, um, but there's so
much there, the reason that Iwas kind of cringing, um, when
(08:04):
you were saying narcissisticpersonality disorder.
It is a debate.
I don't believe in narcissisticpersonality disorder as a
diagnosable situation, because atrue narcissist, a true
malignant narcissist, wouldnever go to get a diagnosis like
(08:27):
that, because nothing's wrongwith them.
It's you.
You're the problem.
They will find justificationfor how they treat you, even
when they abuse you.
They could shoot you and findreason that they were right to
do that.
So these are not people who aregoing to willingly go and sit
in front of somebody.
(08:48):
You know, oftentimes what twoof the main characteristics that
would separate a truenarcissist from somebody that
just has the tendencies is theylack remorse and they lack
empathy.
So try to get somebody that hasno remorse for what they've
done and no empathy to thinkabout how their actions affect
others to go sit in front of apsychiatrist to get a diagnosis.
(09:12):
Yeah, I just don't see thathappening.
Dai Manuel (09:14):
That makes a lot of sense, the way you describe that
, and it also sort of like, Ithink, about sociopaths, right,
like it seems like there's avery like the way you just
described.
There's a very like the way youjust described their lack of
empathy, especially, you know,that inability to recognize that
it does harm for others and theblatant fact that they just
don't care.
Dana Diaz (09:34):
Right, and it's intentional, and it's
intentional.
So, yes, these are antisocial,psychotic people.
Dai Manuel (09:45):
Oh yeah.
Dana Diaz (09:45):
And they're everywhere.
Dai Manuel (09:47):
They, they they are Well it's funny and I I want
everyone to be aware.
I know, now that we've givenyou these filters through which
to see some people or sometraits of people, you will start
to notice it more.
It's sort of like the, the idealike let's not think about pink
elephants.
Oh, you're thinking about pinkelephants, you know so um, but
but on that note and this is aserious note is Dana I, I?
(10:09):
I know it was like 40 years agoor or recently.
After 40 years of abuse, youfinally made a decision to
change things, and I can onlyimagine just the lead up to
wanting to make that change.
So can you take us back andsort of walk us through that?
Because I know this is theorigin story.
This is how you just becamesomeone that's known as the
(10:32):
superpower of helping peoplewith this.
So the floor is yours.
I've been really lookingforward to this.
Dana Diaz (10:39):
Well, thank you, I'm not sure where to start, but
we'll just start.
I think we'll start at the endand go to the beginning, because
I think the beautiful thing andI think all of our lives have
this circular aspect.
But my life really did comefull circle because just three
and a half years ago I was justabout to turn 45.
(11:00):
I had gotten very ill andbecause of the narcissistic
abuse I was experiencing in myformer marriage I was with him
25 years it had made me so sickbecause of the stress, the
cortisol, that stress hormonewas running through me for so
(11:20):
many decades at such acceleratedrates and levels that I became
autoimmune and it gave me a lungdisease that's similar to
having COPD and fibromyalgia allat the same time.
So my body was in havoc and forsomebody that coached cross
country for nine years, ran fivemiles every day, ate apples and
hard boiled eggs and you knowthis shouldn't be happening I
(11:44):
should not have been wearing abackpack, oxygen machine and
feeling like I had rigor mortissetting in after sitting down
for 10 minutes and I mean peoplehave to understand I dropped
down to 93 pounds.
I couldn't I couldn't teartoilet paper off the roll to
take care of myself.
That shouldn't be happening inyour mid-40s when you're
(12:04):
otherwise healthy.
So that was my motivating,life-changing moment where I
said, okay, is this what Ireally want?
And I kind of looked back andsaid what the hell happened?
How did I even get here?
Because this was not at allwhat I intended.
So, going back to the beginning,it goes back to before I was
(12:28):
even born.
I was an unplanned teenagepregnancy Oops, accident and
mistake.
I was told that referred to assuch.
After I was born, fortunately,my grandma and great grandma
saved me from abortion or beingadopted out and they decided to
(12:50):
make a pact Grandma would get ajob to take care of my expenses.
Great grandma would take careof me.
So the beautiful thing is I hada foundation.
My great grandma was veryloving.
She was my mother.
She still is in my heart today,even though she's passed.
(13:13):
She was just a beautifulinfluence on me, showed me what
love is.
I had two very doting unclesthat served as father figures
and I love them dearly as well.
But that was my foundation.
So that was good.
But then mom decided to getmarried to an older man she had
met.
He had a house, he had a car,lived in middle class
neighborhood in the suburbs, youknow, had much more than my
(13:35):
mother ever thought she couldattain on her own and with her
own resources, and for somereason everybody thought it was
a great idea for her to suddenlytake me to go live with them
and live this wonderful lifethat it was supposed to be.
Well, it wasn't.
It wasn't in the least bit.
As a matter of fact, the firsttime I met this man I didn't
(13:59):
like him.
I mean, he tried to give me astuffed animal to win me over.
He acted nice, but kids arereally.
They can see through stuff Likethat movie.
I see dead people, I see fakepeople.
I just have that naturalability to see through BS.
And he wasn't very nice to mewhen no one was around, not that
(14:25):
he was awfully nice to me whenmy mother was around, because my
mother was, you know, veryemotionally detached and
neglectful of me in a lot ofways, very physically detached.
We had no real bond orrelationship and nor did she
ever seek to create one.
So we'll get to.
The gist of it is that in mylife with them, from a very
(14:48):
young age, about five, six yearsold, I was physically and
verbally abused by my mother'shusband.
He would tell me on a dailybasis and I challenge everyone,
think of your child, or anychild, five, six, seven years
old, a little girl.
I shouldn't have to pay foranother man's child.
You should be glad that I'mfeeding you and sheltering you.
(15:09):
Nobody's ever going to love you.
Your mother doesn't even loveyou.
You're a burden, you're abother, you're stupid.
By the way, that bowl ofspaghetti you're having for
dinner is going to make you fat.
Nobody's going to want you ifyou're fat.
Oh, that peanut butter andjelly sandwich.
Nobody's ever going to want youwhen your hips widen like a
middle-aged woman's.
This is what I heard every dayof my life, growing up until I
(15:31):
was 18 years old and walked out.
The problem was, as you mighthave figured, I'm a little fiery
.
I can be tenacious, and I wasvery much so as a little girl.
I would go to my mother.
She wouldn't say anything tohim.
She'd actually turn around andtell me that I should stop lying
and making up stories.
So when all these things werehappening, I would just stand up
(15:55):
for myself and say I even stoodup for her, oftentimes saying
don't talk to my mother that way.
You can't do that to my mother.
Well, I would be met withphysical consequences and those
weren't very nice, certainly notto the severity some people
experience physical abuse.
But I learned I had to keep mymouth shut.
(16:16):
It was better, kept the peace.
I just kind of withdrewaltogether and kept to myself,
just flew under the radar, as Isay, just so I could get out of
that house.
But unfortunately, when I leftthe house saying nobody's ever
going to treat me this way againand I'm going to go out in the
(16:37):
world, I mean, from 12 years oldand I knew I wanted to help
other children of abuse becauseat certain points I did tell
people, child services did getinvolved, police were called and
not one damn thing happened.
They, they were generous, theywere success.
I was the problem.
(16:57):
You know, nobody believed me.
I self-inflicted the wounds, ok, so I self-inflicted the wounds
, okay, so, yeah.
So I felt like there was.
I definitely felt the injustice.
I wanted to change that.
But what was I going to do?
Well, I wanted to go to beautyschool.
(17:17):
He, of course, being anarcissist, said that's not real
school, you have to go to auniversity.
So I went to DePaul Universitywhere I discovered very early on
in my freshman year thatapparently I was good at writing
and speaking and it was finebecause the political science.
I thought I tried pre-law but Iwas like gosh, the system is
(17:39):
really.
You learn real quick.
It's ass backwards.
Nothing really works the wayit's supposed to and I wasn't
sure that I could really do whatI wanted to do and create the
effect I wanted to create in asystem that was so broken, write
(18:06):
and able to speak so naturally.
I thought, okay, I'll go thatdirection, get a degree in
journalism, minored inpsychology, because I knew there
was a lot of that there formyself and to help others.
But in the meantime I met myex-husband and he reminded me of
my stepfather in so many ways.
Yet he hit me differently, andI didn't mean hit physically.
(18:32):
He struck me differentlybecause he was unsuspecting.
He wasn't as overt as mystepfather saying look at me and
my fancy car and you'll neverhave a house like this.
And we all know one of thosenarcissists.
My ex-husband was more of a.
I always say he was like Eeyorein Winnie the Pooh, with the
(18:53):
slumped shoulders and thedrooped head, like nothing good
ever happens to me and poor me.
So like he'd bait people, youknow, almost thriving on their
pity, you know, so that youwould praise him and encourage
and admire him and exalt him forevery little thing to thinking
you're lifting his spirit, youknow, and being his cheerleader.
(19:15):
And in return I was gettingaffection.
And so, even though it wasn'tright, I mean, we were like oil
and water.
But I was a codependent, I mean, let's be real and I was
desperate.
I was so starving for love thatany little bit of crumb of
attention or affection wasenough for me.
(19:37):
It was good enough.
It didn't need to be everything, it just needed to be enough.
So we began this push and pullwhere, even just three weeks
into our relationship, somethinggot thrown across the room at
me and it was over a CD, the new, no Doubt excited about it, I
ran out and bought it and he wasangry because he had bought it
(20:09):
as well.
And it was such an unreasonableoverreaction to start throwing
things and having all thatscreaming and seething anger
with spit coming out of hismouth, I was like, ok, I'm good,
I'm out, best wishes, see youlater.
I don't want any part of this,but this is how narcissistic
(20:32):
romantic relationships begin.
Then the next day, it was I'msorry and he's caressing my
cheek and he'll never do itagain, and it's the two of us
against the world.
Well, you tell a girl whose momand theoretical my stepdad was
the only dad I'd ever known, myown parents I didn't feel love
(20:53):
from.
I'd never been good enough.
They didn't care.
This guy tried to right.
He didn't mean to do that.
He might have had a bad day,right, we all have bad days.
Here I go start enabling,excusing, tolerating.
So he got away with that and wewere in love for a few days and
(21:14):
then something else wouldhappen.
Then we were in love for a fewdays, then something else bad
would happen, and the bad wasjust him not being happy about
something I said or did, ormaybe I looked at him wrong, or
maybe something didn't go theway he wanted it to.
So I was going to pay for allof that.
I was going to pay foreverything bad that happened to
(21:36):
him in his life from then on.
The problem with this was thatin this push and pull, all those
little bad moments, you know,it went from throwing stuff
across the room to crowbarsbeing swung at my head, to
prescription medications thatmight have well that he wanted
to kill me, to guns and knivesat the end of this 25 years.
(21:59):
And how does it get to?
From point A to point B?
Well, I was the girl that hadno boundaries day to point B.
Well, I was the girl that hadno boundaries.
I was so afraid ofdisappointing people because I
didn't want to be abandoned orrejected, like I had been in my
childhood, that my boundarieswere very loose.
They were there, but they wereloose, and what narcissists do
(22:20):
is they step just over thoseboundaries and they know damn
well what they're doing.
You're unsettled enough.
You might even say something,but then they twist everything
around.
So somehow now you feelresponsible for what they've
done, because they werejustified in what they were
doing, but you also don't feeloffended enough to end things.
(22:43):
And then I go back to the pointA, to point B.
How does something get thrownacross the room to?
At the end he's threatening tokill me and shooting guns.
Well, it's like gaining weight,you know.
You look back five years.
You gained a few pounds sincethen.
How did I gain 10 pounds?
Because it happens little bylittle.
Just like every time this badstuff happens, it's a little bit
(23:06):
worse Then, it's a little worsethe next time and a little more
then.
So it creeps on you so that youbecome so unfazed at how
extreme and severe andunreasonable and abusive.
Oftentimes you don't evenrecognize it as abuse because it
is your normal.
(23:26):
It's not until you maybe saysomething out loud and somebody
looks at you, you know, jarredby your comments or stunned that
you would.
You know that this is even goingon that you're like why are you
reacting that way?
It's no big deal, it's a verybig deal, you know, because and
(23:49):
it's sad to me, like when I waswriting my book, I felt bad for
my younger self because, like myson is, he'll be 21 next month
His girlfriend is 19.
And I look at her at the sameage.
If she came to me and she's noteven my daughter, I think of
(24:12):
her as one.
But I'm like if she came to meand said my own son swung a
crowbar at her head, oh my gosh,I would be packing her up so
fast and going and kicking hisass.
But that's a whole other thing.
But you know, nobody did thatLike I thought it was OK.
I let him treat me that way andthat was so sad to me that I
let things get to that end.
But going back to this fullcircle, so here I am at the end
(24:36):
of that 25 years.
I'm 44, just about to turn 45.
My health has been destroyed.
My self-esteem, gosh.
I didn't even know who I was.
Honestly, I'd been stripped ofany sense of who I was and I
didn't even have my own thoughtsor opinions.
I wasn't allowed to, I wasn'tallowed to do anything that Dana
(24:59):
wanted.
So I asked myself a question onenight, just thinking in the
scheme of life, because Ihonestly am looking at if I'm in
this condition physically at 44years old, almost 45, am I just
going to die one day?
And that's it?
Is my life just going to beover sooner than later?
(25:20):
And that was it because Ididn't even try to do anything
that I had set out to do when Iwas younger.
Nothing I wanted had come tofruition.
So I just it's that simplequestion what do I want?
And it was a very easy answer.
I went to school for journalism.
(25:42):
I wanted to write.
I loved writing.
I wanted to still advocate forvictims of abuse because I
finally realized I had been soterribly abused in my marriage
and my childhood.
I wanted to help victims and Ieven wanted to be married, just
not to somebody who hated me andwanted me dead.
(26:03):
Minor details Big details.
I mean, you know I don't ask formuch.
You know, the wonderful thingabout asking yourself that
question is that once you see it, you cannot unsee that vision.
You can't If it's what youtruly want.
(26:26):
It's always like for me.
It had been there for 30 years.
It didn't go away.
But the next question was well,am I just going to let this be
it?
Can I achieve any of that inthis situation?
I didn't even have to thinkabout it.
(26:46):
No, I was not going to havelove the way I needed to be
loved, without abuse.
Minor details too.
With this man I was not goingto be able to write or have.
I couldn't do anything.
A narcissist isn't going toallow you to have any sense of
achievement or financial freedomor, you know, success that they
(27:08):
couldn't have themselves.
So that was out of the question.
I mean, I knew that I could notlive a life that was true to
who I was and live to my fullpotential, or even know what my
true full potential would be ifI was still with this man.
The irony of it was that,making the decision to end that
(27:31):
relationship, to get thatdivorce, I also realized that I
had been the one who had thepower all along.
I mean, granted, in domesticsituations it's sometimes safer
to stay until it's safe enoughto leave.
But theoretically I had putthat hypothetical collar and
(27:52):
leash on myself so I couldunsnap it, I could take myself
off of it and get out, which iswhat I did, and I think it's
really important for people tounderstand that.
You know like I get it.
At one point I thought who am ILike?
I start writing this book.
I took my journal of atrocities, as I call it, you know, a
(28:16):
record of all the things he wassaying and doing to me, because
I honestly was afraid he wasgoing to do something and make
it look self-inflicted andnobody would ever know it was
him.
So I wanted it to be there forsomebody to find.
But I took that and elaboratedit and that ended up being a
book.
Like, who thought I could writea book?
(28:36):
It was flabbergasting even tomyself.
And then when I was talking topublishers and a couple of them
were actually interested and Iwas like, oh my gosh, like I
might publish a book.
I never in a million yearswould have thought anybody would
have even considered publishinga word that I said or wrote.
(28:58):
But the beautiful thing is it'sonly been three and a half
years since that divorce and inthat three and a half years I've
not only published my firstbook.
I have two more books that I'vewritten that are coming out
later this year.
I'm just finalizing therevisions on them.
I am also remarried to somebodywhose family I knew 20 years.
(29:23):
I've known him for roughly 10and he'd always been there.
But once my vision was uncloudedand I was very clear about who
I was and what I wanted.
It's amazing what you attract,you know, when you know.
I always say it's kind of like.
I felt like a flower in agarden, but I had all these
(29:44):
weeds overshadowing me.
They were covering up andsubduing my beauty and my
potential to bloom and to growin the sunshine.
I couldn't even see the sun.
I didn't even see a way out.
I didn't even know there was asky and a sun that I could glow
(30:04):
in the rays of.
I wasn't getting nutrients frommy soil because they were
sucking it all out.
But once all these weedsstarted plucking themselves out,
you know, my mother andstepfather cut ties with me.
I got divorced.
Unfortunately, a lot of family,all different sides of family,
decided to side with this one orthat one, or believe this thing
(30:27):
about me or that.
But, as devastating as it was,once all those weeds were gone
they weren't taking away from meanymore, they weren't sucking
the life out of me, they weren'tdiminishing me.
I was getting the sunshine, Iwas getting nourishment because
there were other flowers there,one of them being my current
(30:48):
husband, that people that werefor me.
But I didn't hear theirpositive words over all the
negativity and all the naysayersaround me and all the
diminishing comments that Istarted to believe about myself
that kept me in that submissivesituation.
So it's very empowering to beable to ask yourself what you
(31:14):
want, because then you know, yousee, you take those steps
forward to an act to get theprocesses going.
And so now I'm remarried.
And you know, for all thepeople who say, oh, I'm broken
and I'm damaged or I'll never.
Well, if you don't, if youdon't get out of it, you never
(31:35):
will.
You have to make the decisionto decide what you want.
And I called myself broken anddamaged once too, but I will
never again, because I don'tlike talking to myself that way.
I have had people talking to mein terrible ways my whole life
Now that I have positiveself-talk and I'm like you know
what.
I'm not broken and damaged.
(31:56):
I'm affected.
A lot of crap happened to me,but I'm still standing here.
I'm still alive.
Am I sickly?
Some days?
Some are better than others.
I'm still alive.
Am I sickly?
Some days?
Some are better than others,but most of the time I can put
up on enough makeup and drinkenough coffee to get going and
be the Dana that I like to be.
And I have a wonderful husbandwho, despite my humanity that
(32:23):
I'm not perfect and that I amalways going to be a work in
progress and I'm still going tobe healing for the rest of my
life has shown me grace andforgiveness and taught me how to
give that grace and forgivenessto myself and to others as well
.
And so here I am again, thisfull circle thing.
(32:44):
I was meant, I realized, to gothrough all that stuff.
I had to go through it so thatI could understand it because,
whatever it is God, the universe, whatever impacted what gifts I
was given, I am able to explainit and understand it and
(33:08):
verbalize it in a way that helpsothers get that perspective on
their own relationships and whatthey do with that is up to them
.
But I certainly strive to helppeople to improve their lives
and to go for it.
Because you know what?
Here's my last little tidbit,and then I'll get off my soapbox
(33:32):
.
I met another podcast host, 83years old.
He might be 84 now, but he said, he told me.
He said when he turned 80 yearsold, he decided now, mind you,
he 80 years old.
He decided Now, mind you, hedidn't think.
He decided that he was going topublish one book every year.
(33:54):
Wow, he has published one bookevery year.
That's awesome.
It is awesome.
Dai Manuel (34:17):
But it is proof that if you decide something, if you
make that decision, I don'tcare how old you are, I don't
care where you are in life, youwill get there.
If you really want it, you'llget there.
Thank you very much for justyour openness, your
vulnerability and yourwillingness to share and unpack
40 years of abuse.
I can see how your degrees injournalism and psychology has
really supported you in thisability to tell the story but,
(34:38):
more importantly, alsoarticulate what it is to be
abused by a narcissist.
Dana Diaz (34:44):
And what is a narcissist?
What does it look?
Dai Manuel (34:46):
like, how does that show up for us?
And I know that's all capturedvery well in your book and, by
the way, I know you didn'tmention the book, but, uh, I did
hear you mention, you know,before, when we were chatting,
uh, about being an unfortunateexpert and narcissist, and I
thought I thought that was sotelling, you know.
So telling, cause you're right,you know.
(35:06):
But these hero journeys thatmany of us find ourselves on,
you know you, you get to theother side and inevitably you do
turn around.
You see down at the bottom ofthat hill that you just climbed,
much for other people that aredealing with the same challenges
that we ourselves dealt with.
And so I applaud you and yourwillingness to go back down the
hill and say hey, listen, it'srocky to get up there, but
(35:28):
follow me, I'm here to help, youknow.
And and that is beautiful, youknow it really is beautiful.
And and uh, to see so muchbeauty come out of what many
would consider a very dark timeyou know, and so thank you for
for all of that and real quick,what's the name of the book?
Dana Diaz (35:46):
Gasping for Air, the Stranglehold of Narcissistic
Abuse.
Dai Manuel (35:51):
Beauty titled.
Thank you, I love just thevisual that that creates, but I
can imagine that writing thebook was also very cathartic for
you.
I can just, I'm imagining thatNow I mean, what was that
process, like you know, becauseobviously going back through
that journal and I mean itsounds like that journal
documented a lot of hard days.
(36:13):
It was a lot To revisit that,yeah, yeah, revisit that and
unpack that and then put it intoa book format.
I mean, I could just imagine,there must have been just
challenging moments it was.
Dana Diaz (36:23):
Can you just talk about that experience?
Yeah, I mean it took threeyears because it was really hard
.
I mean, honestly, the firstmanuscript I sent off to the
publisher, you know she sent me,you know they send you back 20,
some pages of notes of delveinto this.
This isn't necessary.
And it was almost better thantherapy because I mean she
(36:47):
really challenged me.
The interesting thing was isthat she said, you know, ok,
like, granted, he was a drinkjerk, abusive, everything else.
But the story's been told thatthe boohoo, poor wife, you know,
victim to a mean, awful husband, you know she's like.
(37:09):
You need to get into this more.
If you're willing, if you'renot afraid, if you're up for
this challenge, you need toreally get into this more.
And that's where it started tobecome cathartic and that's
where it started to become whatwas published.
Because I did, I can almostappreciate now, like how actors
(37:32):
really have to, you know, honethat skill of envisioning and
imagining, because I was goingback to very real things that
happened.
But you know, looking back, youknow what did I see?
What were they wearing?
Was there sweat glistening ontheir forehead?
What did I smell?
(37:53):
What did I feel inside,emotionally, physically, and I
tried to get that.
I feel like I did a good job ofgetting that all out, but I
think I it just opened my eyesto a lot of stuff that I never
even realized myself, and I'm anoverthinker.
(38:15):
So, believe me, I have thoughtin every scenario.
But the beautiful thing aboutwriting, and why I encourage
people to journal, is becausewhen you see the words on paper
as opposed to scrolling throughthe memories and the
recollections you have in yourbrain Seeing them on paper
(38:36):
there's a certain level ofobjectivity that comes with that
.
Where you know, some of us area little more visual that if you
see the words and like, oh,this happened, and then you're
reading along oh, this happenedagain, this happened.
And then you're reading alongoh, this happened again and this
is what happened before.
You start to see reasonings forpeople's behavior, you start
(38:57):
seeing patterns, and so tellingmy stories helped me to see
things that I didn't understandat the time, that I couldn't
sort out just in my brain and mymemories, but I could sort them
out on paper and or on thecomputer screen, as the case may
be.
So it's a really cool thing todo.
(39:20):
That, you know, if anybody doeslike to write and if any.
But I tell people all the timefree journal meaning get a
notebook, get a piece of paperand don't I don't care what it
is, even if it's not a nicethought, it's a terrible thing
If it's your true feeling, getit out, don't stop yourself,
(39:40):
don't stop and edit, just throwit out there, because it's very
interesting in that nasty stuff,in the truth, which a lot of
people aren't ready for, eventheir own truth, but in that
truth.
That's where you will grow,that's where you will learn.
And that's what I hope to dowith my book is not just for me,
(40:02):
because I grew and learned alot from writing that book, but
it's also helping other peoplegrow and learn.
And, like you said, I've alwaysbeen that girl.
That's like me.
First, you know, in publicspeaking class, you know
everybody's sitting there, youknow terrified shaking in the
knees, like don't make me gofirst, and then the teacher
(40:22):
calls on somebody or saysanybody, and everybody's looking
around.
I'm that girl like all right,I'll go.
So it's kind of like that thing, like I am putting myself out
there.
And when I did this book I didacknowledge those things.
The publisher said she's likeyou probably weren't an angel
all the time either, like welove you but we got to know you.
(40:44):
But you probably did some stuff, and I did, admittedly, and you
know what.
I'm not going to be ashamedabout it.
I put things out there that I'drather people didn't know about
me, you know, and things that Iregret, but I think that's part
of what makes us human, and youknow all you can do, because
(41:04):
we're all going to falter, we'reall going to stumble sometimes,
and I still do.
There are cringy moments in mylife now where I'm like, you
know, I wish that hadn't comeout of my mouth, or I wish I
hadn't said or done that, or I'min a mood today, but that's
part of who we are and we haveto embrace every aspect of
(41:24):
ourselves and give ourselvesthat forgiveness, because if you
can't love yourself, respectyourself and forgive yourself,
how the hell are you going to godo that out in the world?
You can't, and so it makes you abetter person for it.
But it's not fun, it's not nice, and healing isn't exactly what
people think it is either.
Your fairy godmother is notgoing to come, sprinkle magic
(41:45):
fairy dust on you and you'regoing to wake up and ride
rainbows and unicorns and allthat good stuff.
It's nasty and ugly and thedepths of hell will open the
ground underneath you and pullyou down under.
But if you are ready to gothere, whether through writing
or traditional talk therapy or Imean, I've seen goat yoga
(42:05):
therapy whatever, do what yougot to do, whatever speaks to
your heart, whatever do what yougot to do whatever speaks to
your heart, but definitely it issomething worth thinking about
doing.
You just have to be ready forthe challenge, because it
absolutely is.
It's dreadful, all that stuff.
Dai Manuel (42:22):
I think you know.
First of all, thank you for the, the transparency around the
good, the bad and the oh goshgosh of journaling, because I I
do.
I've had similar experienceswith journaling and yeah, and.
But I do find that when I'mhaving those down days, it's
nice to get it on paper, yeah,rather than get it out on my
kids or my wife, you know and asshrek says, better out than in.
(42:46):
So uh, you know I I'll save you,I won't burp but uh, you know
it's very much, it's one ofthose burp, but you know it's
very much, it's one of thoseexercises and it doesn't take
very much.
I'll do like maybe threeminutes in the morning, five
minutes in the afternoon, likeit, just when it's something,
when inspiration strikes, it'sjust when I got to get this crap
out of my head, you know.
Dana Diaz (43:04):
Yeah, exactly.
Dai Manuel (43:05):
I think.
Thank you for sharing that.
I think that's a wonderful 2%actionable item.
So those that are listening, Ihope you take note.
You're not journaling.
Think about journaling as acathartic exercise to get the
crap out, so you don't have toput it on anybody else.
You know.
Very true, but this has justbeen amazing and I'm like look
at the time.
I wish we had another, likefour hours.
(43:26):
We have like a Rogan episodehere, right.
But I wanted to quickly cover acouple things as we finish up
today.
Dana and I'm going to have youback when the other two books
are coming out, because I wantto come back talk about that and
talk about some of the newthings that you're working on,
because this has been just sucha wonderful conversation and
I've learned a ton, so I knoweveryone that's listening has
(43:46):
learned a ton.
But I wanted to chat realquickly about this idea of um
advocacy because I know that'spart of what you do today and
and you are, you're, you're aproud voice for those that often
don't have one and, yes,obviously you know being the
unexpected expert in our 40years of of expertise, um, you
(44:11):
know how do you approachcreating awareness and
understanding on this subjectmatter, because I I know for
many it's very triggering aswell, as a lot of people don't
want to admit it that they're.
In a relationship like this,like even around conversations
around codependency.
You know like people are veryshy oh yeah you know like no, I,
I don't enable him and I'm likeyou.
(44:31):
You know, of course, I'm usingthose types of terms that you're
used to in that, but you knowpeople are very apprehensive
about owning anything,especially on these subjects.
Right Back to the labels andthe IM statements that you
alluded to earlier.
So I'm just curious how haveyou found it best to navigate
this on this four-year journeyof really carving this path?
Dana Diaz (44:54):
I think it's just leading by example, because you
know, being that person, likeI'm the first person to say,
yeah, I was a codependent.
I think I still probably am,and I see a lot of codependent.
You know aspects of my husband,but I'm like two negatives make
a positive it's inependent.
You know aspects of my husband,but I'm like two negatives make
a positive it's in yourperspective, you know.
(45:15):
So it's about taking the labeloff and not owning the stigma
that other people put on you.
You know there's a millionthings that that I could feel
about myself, but I want to feelgood.
I want to, you know,acknowledge the fact that I've
(45:37):
made mistakes and that I haveregrets and that I still, in the
future, might say and do thingsthat aren't characteristic or
presenting the best part of me.
But I think, by by saying itout loud to other people, it's
okay not to be perfect.
I am not perfect and, as I saidin my book, as I'm cringing you
(46:01):
see my face like there arethings that I'm like, not stuff
I wanted out in the world, but Ithink that has to be.
It's again just leading byexample that for me to say I'm
perfect.
Yet here I am, I am stillfeeling good, I'm smiling,
(46:22):
despite things that happened.
Nothing awful has happened tome because I've made mistakes.
You know crap happens toeverybody, but you can still
have blessings.
You know it's just to showpeople.
You know there's more to it andthe only person that you can
(46:43):
count on to limit yourself isyou.
But the only person that canalso bring you to your full
potential is you.
You can't blame other people,you can't, and even for your own
things that you're accountablefor.
It isn't just about saying OK,yeah, oops, but I'm going to
(47:07):
move forward.
I mean, I always tell peoplelook at Walt Disney.
I mean, how many times did hego bankrupt?
How many times was he denied bydifferent banks and lenders and
financiers and even his ownfamily?
You know that that were pooingon the idea.
Dai Manuel (47:25):
He was fired from his first job as an artist.
He was fired First job, he wastold you'll never have a career
as an artist.
Can you believe?
Dana Diaz (47:34):
I'm like whoa, exactly.
But he had this vision.
He had this vision and lookwhat would have ever happened if
he had ever given up.
Because I'll tell you what, I'mpersistent, but I don't know if
I would have been as persistentas him.
I challenge everybody to lookup his story, because what would
(47:55):
this world be without a placeto take our children and spend
way too much damn money onprincess crap and Mickey Mouse
ears?
I mean, let's be real.
Although the waffles there areridiculously good If anyone goes
to the Mickey Mouse waffles,waffles there are ridiculously
good if anyone goes to, got itthe mickey mouse waffles.
But seriously, what an amazingstory.
(48:17):
But why don't we?
Why do we always think thatthat stuff only happens to
somebody else?
So here's me.
I'm, you know, I.
I'm not saying I'm nobody tofeel like a deficient person.
I'm just saying like I'm notsome celebrity, I'm not some
famous person or doctor or youknow, have some sort of wealth
(48:39):
or status.
I'm just a regular person.
And I think what people relateto is that, yeah, I'm just me
and I'm showing you the way.
And if you'll follow, you know,I'm happy to go along that
journey with you and show youwhat mine looked like, and maybe
yours is going to be a littlebit different, and that's great.
We all have to live within ourown right, but, yeah, we got to
(49:03):
go for it.
I want everybody to know thatthey can have better.
You know, even if you choose tostay in your circumstances, you
deserve better, because I don'tthink people hear that enough,
you know, and we don't tellourselves that enough.
Dai Manuel (49:22):
I think that is so well said and, yeah, I often
contend that.
You know, it's our every singleperson on this planet.
It's their birthright to behappy, joyful, joyful and live a
life that fulfills them.
You know like.
I really believe that'severyone's birthright and it's
amazing how we can do a lot, notonly for ourselves but also for
others, to prevent.
That makes sense.
(49:46):
Really, just an insightfulconversation today.
I'm so grateful to have hadthis time with you.
One little more question onadvocacy and then I got a
closing question for you.
Dana Diaz (49:56):
Closing question.
Dai Manuel (49:57):
All right, and I guess, I believe, because I know
, even just being someone thatdid a fair bit of research
before we came to thisconversation today, but also
just in general knowledge, justyou know, just general interest
I've wanted to know more aboutthis so I better understand it,
I imagine, and because Iencountered a lot of conflicting
(50:21):
views, different opinions,right, just like when we started
with the beginning.
You know about this diagnosisthat psychologists or
psychiatrists are using today tolabel people with these
disorders and which they'recalling it a disorder, and I
guess you know what are some ofthe misconceptions about
narcissistic abuse that you'reworking to dispel.
(50:45):
You know what I mean, likethrough your advocacy,
specifically, like, is thereanything that you can list?
Because I think this is a greatway for us to sort of end this,
because to get more of thatclarity on what we've been
talking about today, yeah,absolutely.
Dana Diaz (50:58):
I think the biggest misconception comes back to just
the term narcissistic abuse,because people think it is a
specific type of abuse in itselfand all it is is when a
narcissist abuses you.
So I think that's why a lot ofpeople say, oh, I don't buy this
narcissism thing.
So to that I say just look atthe abuse, because really, at
(51:21):
the end of the day, that's whatyou know.
I just want everybody toconsider how they treat other
people and I would rather thatpeople weren't abusive.
But under that umbrella of quoteunquote abuse, I am talking
about the bullies on the schoolplayground, I am talking about
the mean girl at work or thatnasty boss who takes credit for
(51:43):
all the work that you do, youknow, as their own, and in all
these things.
But again, narcissistic abuseis just when a narcissist
physically, verbally, sexually,legally, financially, you know,
however, in whatever way, isabusing you.
So you know, I've been known tosay, and I'm going to say it
(52:04):
again without the bad words butabuse is abuse and an a-hole is
an a-hole.
So I don't hear what you wantto call it, but you know it is
what it is.
Dai Manuel (52:14):
Well said.
I you know what?
I don't think it could havebeen said any more black and
white right Like that is justawesome.
I know.
I think that's exactly whateveryone needs to hear.
I needed to hear that.
I do know that I haverelationships with a few people
in my life and you know they,they definitely have those
tendencies oh yeah.
(52:35):
Um, I'm pretty good at enforcingmy boundaries around those
people now, but I wasn't alwaysthat way, right being that I've
been a people pleaser myself.
Uh, someone's very quick to sayyes because I want everybody to
like yeah.
And that stemmed from being akid, which, just like it sounds
like a lot of yours stemmed frombeing a kid as well, but then
it also repeated itself.
Dana Diaz (52:54):
But thank you for breaking the cycle you did more
than broke.
Dai Manuel (53:00):
You just just demolished it.
It have also now created abridge for others to get the
tools and resources to demolishtheir own bridges.
Dana Diaz (53:07):
Exactly.
Dai Manuel (53:09):
And I think it's just wonderful and thank you for
being here today.
This has been just amazing.
And just a quick reminder toall the listeners and viewers
Dana's links are in the shownotes.
You click show notes expandit's there, it's right there
when you're listening to this.
Okay, it's all there and it'sall hyperlinked.
To make it super easy, you justclick on the button bam, you'll
be taken to Dana's platformsand where she's putting out some
(53:32):
great content, resources links,but also there'll be links to
her book.
Definitely go pick up a copy ofthat.
If anything you heard todaytweet peeked and tweaked your
interest.
Do yourself a favor and go grabthat book.
Okay, it's a great place tobegin this conversation and and
awareness piece.
It's a great place to beginthis conversation and awareness
(53:52):
piece.
And so, dana, as I said, I hada closing question for you,
because I always like to give myguests final words, and what
I'd love to ask you is can youoffer the audience who may be in
a similar situation and arelooking for a way out or maybe
they're just beginning theirjourney of healing Any words of
advice for those individualsright now?
Dana Diaz (54:13):
Yes, I always say my big mom advice is to trust your
gut.
Listen to your gut.
Stop making excuses, stopjustifying things, stop
dismissing notions that you haveeven though you have no reason
(54:36):
to have them.
Trust your gut because usuallyit will lead you away from toxic
people.
It will lead you in anydecisions or crossroads you come
to.
It will will do you well and atthe end of the day, you don't
have to have a reason for doingor not doing, or liking somebody
(55:00):
or not liking somebody.
Just trust your gut because Ipromise you it is telling you
something.
For a reason, people don't givethe energy and the vibe their
feelings as much credit as theyreally should.
So that's what I will leave youwith.
I promise you you will live amuch better and much more
(55:23):
settled and peaceful life if youjust follow your gut.
Dai Manuel (55:28):
That was just the best advice, I think, that could
be offered based on what wetalked about today and and uh,
you know I I'm a 47 year oldcomic book nerd and I would say
we all have spidey senses.
Dana Diaz (55:41):
We don't have to be bit by a spider.
Dai Manuel (55:43):
We all got the pinguins right.
We get those, but it's amazinghow we ignore them, even in the
best or worst of times.
So thank you for the reminder.
I think that was absolutelyneeded, and thank you again for
being here, dana.
This has been wonderful.
When you have those new bookscoming out, please let us know
(56:04):
we're going to have you on theshow to come.
Tell us all about them and we'llcontinue to learn about how
you're continuing to advocateand support others that are
dealing with narcissistic abuse,and so thank you again for
everything, and can't wait tohave you back.
Dana Diaz (56:20):
Thank you so much.
Dai Manuel (56:24):
That's a wrap on a profoundly moving and empowering
episode with Dana Diaz.
Today we journey through Dana'spersonal battles and victories
against narcissistic abuse,uncovering not only the darkness
she endured but also the lightshe found in sharing her story
and helping others.
Dana's courage to reclaim herlife and health after 25 years
(56:45):
in a toxic relationship isnothing short of inspiring.
Her journey from victim tovictor, author and advocate,
highlights the transformativepower of self-awareness and the
healing that comes fromunderstanding and articulating
one's experiences For actionitems for anyone dealing with
similar challenges.
Start journaling, reflect onyour experiences, recognize the
(57:07):
patterns of abuse and, mostimportantly, seek support,
whether through friends, familyor professionals.
Finding a network that upliftsand supports you is crucial.
Let's not forget Dana's notjust talking the talk.
She's walked the walk, penningbooks that dive deep into the
psyche of narcissistic abuse,offering insights and advice to
(57:29):
those who might still be findingtheir way out of the shadows.
So if Dana's story resonatedwith you, if you feel the echoes
of her experiences in your ownlife, don't stand still.
Reach out, seek help and startyour journey towards healing.
Check out Dana's books forguidance and remember you're not
alone in this fight.
For more resources, details andto connect with Dana.
(57:51):
Make sure to visit the shownotes, where we've included all
her links.
Follow Dana on her platforms tostay updated on her work and her
new releases.
Connect, engage and be part ofa community that's turning pain
into empowerment daily.
Thanks for tuning in to the 2%Solution podcast.
Remember it only takes a smallshift to make a big difference.
So keep pushing forward, keepstriving for better and let's
(58:14):
all do our part to create aworld where abuse has no place
to hide.
Join us next time for moreinspiring stories and actionable
solutions.
Until then, keep thriving, keepgrowing and remember change
starts with you.
Welcome to the 2% Solution podcast, where we dive
into stories that inspire andactions that transform.
I'm your host, ty Manuel, andtoday we're embarking on a
journey of resilience, recoveryand empowerment with an
incredibly courageous guest,dana Diaz.
With an incredibly courageousguest, dana Diaz.
Dana brings us a story not justof survival, but of flourishing
(00:28):
, after enduring years ofnarcissistic abuse, from a
challenging childhood to a25-year marriage that tested her
to the core.
Dana's experiences have shapedher into not only a survivor but
a beacon of hope for othersfacing similar trials.
Today, she shares her insightsinto recognizing and overcoming
(00:49):
the invisible chains ofemotional abuse.
In this episode, Dana willunpack the complex world of
narcissism, shedding light onhow malignant narcissists
operate, their lack of empathyand the patterns of control and
abuse they weave.
More importantly, she'll shareher personal catharsis through
writing and journaling, whichled her to her profound healing
(01:09):
and her mission to help others.
The takeaways from today's talkare vital Power of
self-awareness, the importanceof support systems and the
healing that comes from sharingyour story.
Dana has turned her pain intoempowerment, authoring books
that reach out to those stilltrapped in the shadows of
manipulation.
So if you're ready to learn howyou can spot, stop and move
(01:32):
beyond narcissistic abuse, or ifyou just need a dose of
inspiration to remind you of thestrength of the human spirit,
you're in the right place.
Make sure to check out the shownotes for links to Dana's books
and resources and get ready tobe inspired.
This episode is a call to actionfor all of us to understand
more deeply, act more decisivelyand uplift each other in our
(01:54):
darkest times.
Stay tuned as we explore thesepowerful themes with Dana Diaz,
right here on the 2% SolutionPodcast.
Let's get started on the 2%Solution Podcast.
Let's get started.
All right, welcome back to the2% Solution Podcast.
As I said in the intro, I'msuper excited for today's guest,
(02:14):
dana, and I thought the lastname was Diaz.
That's how I knew her, but Isee today on the Zoom poll it's
Studeman.
So what do you go by?
Dana Diaz (02:24):
Dana.
Well, dana S Diaz, the Sudomitis the S, that is my nod to my
current husband.
But I am me, I am the original,you know, born Dana Diaz.
So we're going with it.
I love it.
I love it.
Dai Manuel (02:44):
All of me.
Oh, it's so good.
Well, I'm excited to have youhere today, dana, and, as I
mentioned in the intro, just torecap, I know you're an author,
you're a speaker, and what I'mmost impressed by is your
advocacy work for victims ofnarcissistic abuse, specifically
the vulnerability that you usewith sharing your own personal
(03:06):
story, as well as how that'sbeen supportive in helping
others rediscover thatself-empowerment.
And so today I'm just excitedto talk and share a bit about
your story, but also to diveinto what the hell is narcissism
.
What is narcissism?
Because it's a buzzword we heara lot about nowadays, but do
people really know what it means?
I have to look it up, you knowlike, I have two teenage
(03:29):
daughters.
Well, they're 19 and 21 now, sothis has been very real
conversation, especially as theyare very much in the dating or
boyfriend world, and you knowI'm not going to name names, but
there's been some things I'venoticed.
Okay, so I'm excited to sharemy this podcast, our
conversation with my daughters.
Dana Diaz (03:46):
Okay, selfishly speaking, I think I could give
them a.
I could give them and everybodya quick lesson.
I mean, let's just get to it.
What is a narcissist?
Um, narcissist the wordactually comes from the name of
the greek god narcissist.
The guy liked to look athimself in the water because his
reflection I guess he was hotor something, I don't know, but
(04:09):
he wasn't bothering anybody.
I can't say he was abusive ornot, I didn't know him, but
these are the people we see onsocial media and we all see them
with their abs and their lashesand whatever.
They usually look as good asthey think they look, so we
cannot hate on them.
They might annoy you with howmuch they post about themselves
(04:30):
and how great they are, butthey're not bothering anybody.
Now, what we have come to know anarcissist to be and what we
are talking about here today,are narcissists who are so
obsessed with feeling superiorto other people.
Some actually do think thatthey're superior and above
(04:53):
everything, including the law.
Some actually have a deepseated insecurity so they seek
the admiration and praise tofulfill their ego.
But these are people that, onthe low end of things, I always
say they're like tumors.
A benign tumor is there.
It's not bothering you, it'sjust what it is.
The malignant tumor can causeyou problems, it can kill you.
(05:16):
It's got to go.
These are the narcissists, thosemalignant ones that I'm talking
about, because the problem withthem is that they will enact
any and all forms of abusephysical, verbal, psychological,
sexual, legal, financial.
They will do anything they haveto do to maintain their control
(05:38):
over you so that they feel soall-powerful and exalted and so
important.
And it's disgusting, becauseit's unfortunate, that a lot of
these people realistically, ourUS prison population, the male
prison population specificallyI'm not picking on guys, because
women are narcissists too, butover 20-some percent of them are
(06:00):
identified narcissists and 38%of all women murdered are
murdered by their partner, andusually narcissistic partners.
So these are scary things.
It's a scary thing to be a girlin this world, but I will also
say that they're claiming 25% ofmen also experience, you know,
(06:21):
a relationship with anarcissistic woman.
So it goes both ways, but it'sscary nonetheless to think that
the odds are, you know, more inyour favor than not, but you
know there's a lot of awfulpeople out there.
You know that might harm you,so that they feel good about
themselves, and that's whatwe're talking about.
Dai Manuel (06:42):
Such a great explanation.
I really appreciate taking thetime to dive into that Dana,
because I know it is a hot topicand I know there's a lot of
triggering conversations aroundthis for people, especially
those that have dealt with justabuse on those different levels
that you described.
So you know, for thoselistening, I apologize, you know
(07:04):
, trigger warning that we'regoing to get into some real
stuff here as Dana shares herstory, um, but, but also just a
real quick note and somethingI'd like to ask before we dive
into your story, dan, of how youcame to be supporting people
with this is uh, I was doingsome up and I'm just why I'm
(07:26):
asking.
This is like the research thatI read or came across.
It says the very few areactually diagnosed with that
specifically, but there aredifferent, like people on the
autistic spectrum.
Dana Diaz (07:38):
There's a spectrum.
Dai Manuel (07:39):
There's a spectrum for narcissism, so is that that
is true?
Dana Diaz (07:43):
It's kind of the tumors you could go on the one
end.
I mean, let's be real, we allhave narcissistic tendencies,
sure?
Um?
The intent is where we, youknow, we look to see if it's
harmful to others or not.
Even it could be harmful toyourself, um, but there's so
much there, the reason that Iwas kind of cringing, um, when
(08:04):
you were saying narcissisticpersonality disorder.
It is a debate.
I don't believe in narcissisticpersonality disorder as a
diagnosable situation, because atrue narcissist, a true
malignant narcissist, wouldnever go to get a diagnosis like
(08:27):
that, because nothing's wrongwith them.
It's you.
You're the problem.
They will find justificationfor how they treat you, even
when they abuse you.
They could shoot you and findreason that they were right to
do that.
So these are not people who aregoing to willingly go and sit
in front of somebody.
(08:48):
You know, oftentimes what twoof the main characteristics that
would separate a truenarcissist from somebody that
just has the tendencies is theylack remorse and they lack
empathy.
So try to get somebody that hasno remorse for what they've
done and no empathy to thinkabout how their actions affect
others to go sit in front of apsychiatrist to get a diagnosis.
(09:12):
Yeah, I just don't see thathappening.
Dai Manuel (09:14):
That makes a lot of sense, the way you describe that
, and it also sort of like, Ithink, about sociopaths, right,
like it seems like there's avery like the way you just
described.
There's a very like the way youjust described their lack of
empathy, especially, you know,that inability to recognize that
it does harm for others and theblatant fact that they just
don't care.
Dana Diaz (09:34):
Right, and it's intentional, and it's
intentional.
So, yes, these are antisocial,psychotic people.
Dai Manuel (09:45):
Oh yeah.
Dana Diaz (09:45):
And they're everywhere.
Dai Manuel (09:47):
They, they they are Well it's funny and I I want
everyone to be aware.
I know, now that we've givenyou these filters through which
to see some people or sometraits of people, you will start
to notice it more.
It's sort of like the, the idealike let's not think about pink
elephants.
Oh, you're thinking about pinkelephants, you know so um, but
but on that note and this is aserious note is Dana I, I?
(10:09):
I know it was like 40 years agoor or recently.
After 40 years of abuse, youfinally made a decision to
change things, and I can onlyimagine just the lead up to
wanting to make that change.
So can you take us back andsort of walk us through that?
Because I know this is theorigin story.
This is how you just becamesomeone that's known as the
(10:32):
superpower of helping peoplewith this.
So the floor is yours.
I've been really lookingforward to this.
Dana Diaz (10:39):
Well, thank you, I'm not sure where to start, but
we'll just start.
I think we'll start at the endand go to the beginning, because
I think the beautiful thing andI think all of our lives have
this circular aspect.
But my life really did comefull circle because just three
and a half years ago I was justabout to turn 45.
(11:00):
I had gotten very ill andbecause of the narcissistic
abuse I was experiencing in myformer marriage I was with him
25 years it had made me so sickbecause of the stress, the
cortisol, that stress hormonewas running through me for so
(11:20):
many decades at such acceleratedrates and levels that I became
autoimmune and it gave me a lungdisease that's similar to
having COPD and fibromyalgia allat the same time.
So my body was in havoc and forsomebody that coached cross
country for nine years, ran fivemiles every day, ate apples and
hard boiled eggs and you knowthis shouldn't be happening I
(11:44):
should not have been wearing abackpack, oxygen machine and
feeling like I had rigor mortissetting in after sitting down
for 10 minutes and I mean peoplehave to understand I dropped
down to 93 pounds.
I couldn't I couldn't teartoilet paper off the roll to
take care of myself.
That shouldn't be happening inyour mid-40s when you're
(12:04):
otherwise healthy.
So that was my motivating,life-changing moment where I
said, okay, is this what Ireally want?
And I kind of looked back andsaid what the hell happened?
How did I even get here?
Because this was not at allwhat I intended.
So, going back to the beginning,it goes back to before I was
(12:28):
even born.
I was an unplanned teenagepregnancy Oops, accident and
mistake.
I was told that referred to assuch.
After I was born, fortunately,my grandma and great grandma
saved me from abortion or beingadopted out and they decided to
(12:50):
make a pact Grandma would get ajob to take care of my expenses.
Great grandma would take careof me.
So the beautiful thing is I hada foundation.
My great grandma was veryloving.
She was my mother.
She still is in my heart today,even though she's passed.
(13:13):
She was just a beautifulinfluence on me, showed me what
love is.
I had two very doting unclesthat served as father figures
and I love them dearly as well.
But that was my foundation.
So that was good.
But then mom decided to getmarried to an older man she had
met.
He had a house, he had a car,lived in middle class
neighborhood in the suburbs, youknow, had much more than my
(13:35):
mother ever thought she couldattain on her own and with her
own resources, and for somereason everybody thought it was
a great idea for her to suddenlytake me to go live with them
and live this wonderful lifethat it was supposed to be.
Well, it wasn't.
It wasn't in the least bit.
As a matter of fact, the firsttime I met this man I didn't
(13:59):
like him.
I mean, he tried to give me astuffed animal to win me over.
He acted nice, but kids arereally.
They can see through stuff Likethat movie.
I see dead people, I see fakepeople.
I just have that naturalability to see through BS.
And he wasn't very nice to mewhen no one was around, not that
(14:25):
he was awfully nice to me whenmy mother was around, because my
mother was, you know, veryemotionally detached and
neglectful of me in a lot ofways, very physically detached.
We had no real bond orrelationship and nor did she
ever seek to create one.
So we'll get to.
The gist of it is that in mylife with them, from a very
(14:48):
young age, about five, six yearsold, I was physically and
verbally abused by my mother'shusband.
He would tell me on a dailybasis and I challenge everyone,
think of your child, or anychild, five, six, seven years
old, a little girl.
I shouldn't have to pay foranother man's child.
You should be glad that I'mfeeding you and sheltering you.
(15:09):
Nobody's ever going to love you.
Your mother doesn't even loveyou.
You're a burden, you're abother, you're stupid.
By the way, that bowl ofspaghetti you're having for
dinner is going to make you fat.
Nobody's going to want you ifyou're fat.
Oh, that peanut butter andjelly sandwich.
Nobody's ever going to want youwhen your hips widen like a
middle-aged woman's.
This is what I heard every dayof my life, growing up until I
(15:31):
was 18 years old and walked out.
The problem was, as you mighthave figured, I'm a little fiery
.
I can be tenacious, and I wasvery much so as a little girl.
I would go to my mother.
She wouldn't say anything tohim.
She'd actually turn around andtell me that I should stop lying
and making up stories.
So when all these things werehappening, I would just stand up
(15:55):
for myself and say I even stoodup for her, oftentimes saying
don't talk to my mother that way.
You can't do that to my mother.
Well, I would be met withphysical consequences and those
weren't very nice, certainly notto the severity some people
experience physical abuse.
But I learned I had to keep mymouth shut.
(16:16):
It was better, kept the peace.
I just kind of withdrewaltogether and kept to myself,
just flew under the radar, as Isay, just so I could get out of
that house.
But unfortunately, when I leftthe house saying nobody's ever
going to treat me this way againand I'm going to go out in the
(16:37):
world, I mean, from 12 years oldand I knew I wanted to help
other children of abuse becauseat certain points I did tell
people, child services did getinvolved, police were called and
not one damn thing happened.
They, they were generous, theywere success.
I was the problem.
(16:57):
You know, nobody believed me.
I self-inflicted the wounds, ok, so I self-inflicted the wounds
, okay, so, yeah.
So I felt like there was.
I definitely felt the injustice.
I wanted to change that.
But what was I going to do?
Well, I wanted to go to beautyschool.
(17:17):
He, of course, being anarcissist, said that's not real
school, you have to go to auniversity.
So I went to DePaul Universitywhere I discovered very early on
in my freshman year thatapparently I was good at writing
and speaking and it was finebecause the political science.
I thought I tried pre-law but Iwas like gosh, the system is
(17:39):
really.
You learn real quick.
It's ass backwards.
Nothing really works the wayit's supposed to and I wasn't
sure that I could really do whatI wanted to do and create the
effect I wanted to create in asystem that was so broken, write
(18:06):
and able to speak so naturally.
I thought, okay, I'll go thatdirection, get a degree in
journalism, minored inpsychology, because I knew there
was a lot of that there formyself and to help others.
But in the meantime I met myex-husband and he reminded me of
my stepfather in so many ways.
Yet he hit me differently, andI didn't mean hit physically.
(18:32):
He struck me differentlybecause he was unsuspecting.
He wasn't as overt as mystepfather saying look at me and
my fancy car and you'll neverhave a house like this.
And we all know one of thosenarcissists.
My ex-husband was more of a.
I always say he was like Eeyorein Winnie the Pooh, with the
(18:53):
slumped shoulders and thedrooped head, like nothing good
ever happens to me and poor me.
So like he'd bait people, youknow, almost thriving on their
pity, you know, so that youwould praise him and encourage
and admire him and exalt him forevery little thing to thinking
you're lifting his spirit, youknow, and being his cheerleader.
(19:15):
And in return I was gettingaffection.
And so, even though it wasn'tright, I mean, we were like oil
and water.
But I was a codependent, I mean, let's be real and I was
desperate.
I was so starving for love thatany little bit of crumb of
attention or affection wasenough for me.
(19:37):
It was good enough.
It didn't need to be everything, it just needed to be enough.
So we began this push and pullwhere, even just three weeks
into our relationship, somethinggot thrown across the room at
me and it was over a CD, the new, no Doubt excited about it, I
ran out and bought it and he wasangry because he had bought it
(20:09):
as well.
And it was such an unreasonableoverreaction to start throwing
things and having all thatscreaming and seething anger
with spit coming out of hismouth, I was like, ok, I'm good,
I'm out, best wishes, see youlater.
I don't want any part of this,but this is how narcissistic
(20:32):
romantic relationships begin.
Then the next day, it was I'msorry and he's caressing my
cheek and he'll never do itagain, and it's the two of us
against the world.
Well, you tell a girl whose momand theoretical my stepdad was
the only dad I'd ever known, myown parents I didn't feel love
(20:53):
from.
I'd never been good enough.
They didn't care.
This guy tried to right.
He didn't mean to do that.
He might have had a bad day,right, we all have bad days.
Here I go start enabling,excusing, tolerating.
So he got away with that and wewere in love for a few days and
(21:14):
then something else wouldhappen.
Then we were in love for a fewdays, then something else bad
would happen, and the bad wasjust him not being happy about
something I said or did, ormaybe I looked at him wrong, or
maybe something didn't go theway he wanted it to.
So I was going to pay for allof that.
I was going to pay foreverything bad that happened to
(21:36):
him in his life from then on.
The problem with this was thatin this push and pull, all those
little bad moments, you know,it went from throwing stuff
across the room to crowbarsbeing swung at my head, to
prescription medications thatmight have well that he wanted
to kill me, to guns and knivesat the end of this 25 years.
(21:59):
And how does it get to?
From point A to point B?
Well, I was the girl that hadno boundaries day to point B.
Well, I was the girl that hadno boundaries.
I was so afraid ofdisappointing people because I
didn't want to be abandoned orrejected, like I had been in my
childhood, that my boundarieswere very loose.
They were there, but they wereloose, and what narcissists do
(22:20):
is they step just over thoseboundaries and they know damn
well what they're doing.
You're unsettled enough.
You might even say something,but then they twist everything
around.
So somehow now you feelresponsible for what they've
done, because they werejustified in what they were
doing, but you also don't feeloffended enough to end things.
(22:43):
And then I go back to the pointA, to point B.
How does something get thrownacross the room to?
At the end he's threatening tokill me and shooting guns.
Well, it's like gaining weight,you know.
You look back five years.
You gained a few pounds sincethen.
How did I gain 10 pounds?
Because it happens little bylittle.
Just like every time this badstuff happens, it's a little bit
(23:06):
worse Then, it's a little worsethe next time and a little more
then.
So it creeps on you so that youbecome so unfazed at how
extreme and severe andunreasonable and abusive.
Oftentimes you don't evenrecognize it as abuse because it
is your normal.
(23:26):
It's not until you maybe saysomething out loud and somebody
looks at you, you know, jarredby your comments or stunned that
you would.
You know that this is even goingon that you're like why are you
reacting that way?
It's no big deal, it's a verybig deal, you know, because and
(23:49):
it's sad to me, like when I waswriting my book, I felt bad for
my younger self because, like myson is, he'll be 21 next month
His girlfriend is 19.
And I look at her at the sameage.
If she came to me and she's noteven my daughter, I think of
(24:12):
her as one.
But I'm like if she came to meand said my own son swung a
crowbar at her head, oh my gosh,I would be packing her up so
fast and going and kicking hisass.
But that's a whole other thing.
But you know, nobody did thatLike I thought it was OK.
I let him treat me that way andthat was so sad to me that I
let things get to that end.
But going back to this fullcircle, so here I am at the end
(24:36):
of that 25 years.
I'm 44, just about to turn 45.
My health has been destroyed.
My self-esteem, gosh.
I didn't even know who I was.
Honestly, I'd been stripped ofany sense of who I was and I
didn't even have my own thoughtsor opinions.
I wasn't allowed to, I wasn'tallowed to do anything that Dana
(24:59):
wanted.
So I asked myself a question onenight, just thinking in the
scheme of life, because Ihonestly am looking at if I'm in
this condition physically at 44years old, almost 45, am I just
going to die one day?
And that's it?
Is my life just going to beover sooner than later?
(25:20):
And that was it because Ididn't even try to do anything
that I had set out to do when Iwas younger.
Nothing I wanted had come tofruition.
So I just it's that simplequestion what do I want?
And it was a very easy answer.
I went to school for journalism.
(25:42):
I wanted to write.
I loved writing.
I wanted to still advocate forvictims of abuse because I
finally realized I had been soterribly abused in my marriage
and my childhood.
I wanted to help victims and Ieven wanted to be married, just
not to somebody who hated me andwanted me dead.
(26:03):
Minor details Big details.
I mean, you know I don't ask formuch.
You know, the wonderful thingabout asking yourself that
question is that once you see it, you cannot unsee that vision.
You can't If it's what youtruly want.
(26:26):
It's always like for me.
It had been there for 30 years.
It didn't go away.
But the next question was well,am I just going to let this be
it?
Can I achieve any of that inthis situation?
I didn't even have to thinkabout it.
(26:46):
No, I was not going to havelove the way I needed to be
loved, without abuse.
Minor details too.
With this man I was not goingto be able to write or have.
I couldn't do anything.
A narcissist isn't going toallow you to have any sense of
achievement or financial freedomor, you know, success that they
(27:08):
couldn't have themselves.
So that was out of the question.
I mean, I knew that I could notlive a life that was true to
who I was and live to my fullpotential, or even know what my
true full potential would be ifI was still with this man.
The irony of it was that,making the decision to end that
(27:31):
relationship, to get thatdivorce, I also realized that I
had been the one who had thepower all along.
I mean, granted, in domesticsituations it's sometimes safer
to stay until it's safe enoughto leave.
But theoretically I had putthat hypothetical collar and
(27:52):
leash on myself so I couldunsnap it, I could take myself
off of it and get out, which iswhat I did, and I think it's
really important for people tounderstand that.
You know like I get it.
At one point I thought who am ILike?
I start writing this book.
I took my journal of atrocities, as I call it, you know, a
(28:16):
record of all the things he wassaying and doing to me, because
I honestly was afraid he wasgoing to do something and make
it look self-inflicted andnobody would ever know it was
him.
So I wanted it to be there forsomebody to find.
But I took that and elaboratedit and that ended up being a
book.
Like, who thought I could writea book?
(28:36):
It was flabbergasting even tomyself.
And then when I was talking topublishers and a couple of them
were actually interested and Iwas like, oh my gosh, like I
might publish a book.
I never in a million yearswould have thought anybody would
have even considered publishinga word that I said or wrote.
(28:58):
But the beautiful thing is it'sonly been three and a half
years since that divorce and inthat three and a half years I've
not only published my firstbook.
I have two more books that I'vewritten that are coming out
later this year.
I'm just finalizing therevisions on them.
I am also remarried to somebodywhose family I knew 20 years.
(29:23):
I've known him for roughly 10and he'd always been there.
But once my vision was uncloudedand I was very clear about who
I was and what I wanted.
It's amazing what you attract,you know, when you know.
I always say it's kind of like.
I felt like a flower in agarden, but I had all these
(29:44):
weeds overshadowing me.
They were covering up andsubduing my beauty and my
potential to bloom and to growin the sunshine.
I couldn't even see the sun.
I didn't even see a way out.
I didn't even know there was asky and a sun that I could glow
(30:04):
in the rays of.
I wasn't getting nutrients frommy soil because they were
sucking it all out.
But once all these weedsstarted plucking themselves out,
you know, my mother andstepfather cut ties with me.
I got divorced.
Unfortunately, a lot of family,all different sides of family,
decided to side with this one orthat one, or believe this thing
(30:27):
about me or that.
But, as devastating as it was,once all those weeds were gone
they weren't taking away from meanymore, they weren't sucking
the life out of me, they weren'tdiminishing me.
I was getting the sunshine, Iwas getting nourishment because
there were other flowers there,one of them being my current
(30:48):
husband, that people that werefor me.
But I didn't hear theirpositive words over all the
negativity and all the naysayersaround me and all the
diminishing comments that Istarted to believe about myself
that kept me in that submissivesituation.
So it's very empowering to beable to ask yourself what you
(31:14):
want, because then you know, yousee, you take those steps
forward to an act to get theprocesses going.
And so now I'm remarried.
And you know, for all thepeople who say, oh, I'm broken
and I'm damaged or I'll never.
Well, if you don't, if youdon't get out of it, you never
(31:35):
will.
You have to make the decisionto decide what you want.
And I called myself broken anddamaged once too, but I will
never again, because I don'tlike talking to myself that way.
I have had people talking to mein terrible ways my whole life
Now that I have positiveself-talk and I'm like you know
what.
I'm not broken and damaged.
(31:56):
I'm affected.
A lot of crap happened to me,but I'm still standing here.
I'm still alive.
Am I sickly?
Some days?
Some are better than others.
I'm still alive.
Am I sickly?
Some days?
Some are better than others,but most of the time I can put
up on enough makeup and drinkenough coffee to get going and
be the Dana that I like to be.
And I have a wonderful husbandwho, despite my humanity that
(32:23):
I'm not perfect and that I amalways going to be a work in
progress and I'm still going tobe healing for the rest of my
life has shown me grace andforgiveness and taught me how to
give that grace and forgivenessto myself and to others as well
.
And so here I am again, thisfull circle thing.
(32:44):
I was meant, I realized, to gothrough all that stuff.
I had to go through it so thatI could understand it because,
whatever it is God, the universe, whatever impacted what gifts I
was given, I am able to explainit and understand it and
(33:08):
verbalize it in a way that helpsothers get that perspective on
their own relationships and whatthey do with that is up to them
.
But I certainly strive to helppeople to improve their lives
and to go for it.
Because you know what?
Here's my last little tidbit,and then I'll get off my soapbox
(33:32):
.
I met another podcast host, 83years old.
He might be 84 now, but he said, he told me.
He said when he turned 80 yearsold, he decided now, mind you,
he 80 years old.
He decided Now, mind you, hedidn't think.
He decided that he was going topublish one book every year.
(33:54):
Wow, he has published one bookevery year.
That's awesome.
It is awesome.
Dai Manuel (34:17):
But it is proof that if you decide something, if you
make that decision, I don'tcare how old you are, I don't
care where you are in life, youwill get there.
If you really want it, you'llget there.
Thank you very much for justyour openness, your
vulnerability and yourwillingness to share and unpack
40 years of abuse.
I can see how your degrees injournalism and psychology has
really supported you in thisability to tell the story but,
(34:38):
more importantly, alsoarticulate what it is to be
abused by a narcissist.
Dana Diaz (34:44):
And what is a narcissist?
What does it look?
Dai Manuel (34:46):
like, how does that show up for us?
And I know that's all capturedvery well in your book and, by
the way, I know you didn'tmention the book, but, uh, I did
hear you mention, you know,before, when we were chatting,
uh, about being an unfortunateexpert and narcissist, and I
thought I thought that was sotelling, you know.
So telling, cause you're right,you know.
(35:06):
But these hero journeys thatmany of us find ourselves on,
you know you, you get to theother side and inevitably you do
turn around.
You see down at the bottom ofthat hill that you just climbed,
much for other people that aredealing with the same challenges
that we ourselves dealt with.
And so I applaud you and yourwillingness to go back down the
hill and say hey, listen, it'srocky to get up there, but
(35:28):
follow me, I'm here to help, youknow.
And and that is beautiful, youknow it really is beautiful.
And and uh, to see so muchbeauty come out of what many
would consider a very dark timeyou know, and so thank you for
for all of that and real quick,what's the name of the book?
Dana Diaz (35:46):
Gasping for Air, the Stranglehold of Narcissistic
Abuse.
Dai Manuel (35:51):
Beauty titled.
Thank you, I love just thevisual that that creates, but I
can imagine that writing thebook was also very cathartic for
you.
I can just, I'm imagining thatNow I mean, what was that
process, like you know, becauseobviously going back through
that journal and I mean itsounds like that journal
documented a lot of hard days.
(36:13):
It was a lot To revisit that,yeah, yeah, revisit that and
unpack that and then put it intoa book format.
I mean, I could just imagine,there must have been just
challenging moments it was.
Dana Diaz (36:23):
Can you just talk about that experience?
Yeah, I mean it took threeyears because it was really hard
.
I mean, honestly, the firstmanuscript I sent off to the
publisher, you know she sent me,you know they send you back 20,
some pages of notes of delveinto this.
This isn't necessary.
And it was almost better thantherapy because I mean she
(36:47):
really challenged me.
The interesting thing was isthat she said, you know, ok,
like, granted, he was a drinkjerk, abusive, everything else.
But the story's been told thatthe boohoo, poor wife, you know,
victim to a mean, awful husband, you know she's like.
(37:09):
You need to get into this more.
If you're willing, if you'renot afraid, if you're up for
this challenge, you need toreally get into this more.
And that's where it started tobecome cathartic and that's
where it started to become whatwas published.
Because I did, I can almostappreciate now, like how actors
(37:32):
really have to, you know, honethat skill of envisioning and
imagining, because I was goingback to very real things that
happened.
But you know, looking back, youknow what did I see?
What were they wearing?
Was there sweat glistening ontheir forehead?
What did I smell?
(37:53):
What did I feel inside,emotionally, physically, and I
tried to get that.
I feel like I did a good job ofgetting that all out, but I
think I it just opened my eyesto a lot of stuff that I never
even realized myself, and I'm anoverthinker.
(38:15):
So, believe me, I have thoughtin every scenario.
But the beautiful thing aboutwriting, and why I encourage
people to journal, is becausewhen you see the words on paper
as opposed to scrolling throughthe memories and the
recollections you have in yourbrain Seeing them on paper
(38:36):
there's a certain level ofobjectivity that comes with that
.
Where you know, some of us area little more visual that if you
see the words and like, oh,this happened, and then you're
reading along oh, this happenedagain, this happened.
And then you're reading alongoh, this happened again and this
is what happened before.
You start to see reasonings forpeople's behavior, you start
(38:57):
seeing patterns, and so tellingmy stories helped me to see
things that I didn't understandat the time, that I couldn't
sort out just in my brain and mymemories, but I could sort them
out on paper and or on thecomputer screen, as the case may
be.
So it's a really cool thing todo.
(39:20):
That, you know, if anybody doeslike to write and if any.
But I tell people all the timefree journal meaning get a
notebook, get a piece of paperand don't I don't care what it
is, even if it's not a nicethought, it's a terrible thing
If it's your true feeling, getit out, don't stop yourself,
(39:40):
don't stop and edit, just throwit out there, because it's very
interesting in that nasty stuff,in the truth, which a lot of
people aren't ready for, eventheir own truth, but in that
truth.
That's where you will grow,that's where you will learn.
And that's what I hope to dowith my book is not just for me,
(40:02):
because I grew and learned alot from writing that book, but
it's also helping other peoplegrow and learn.
And, like you said, I've alwaysbeen that girl.
That's like me.
First, you know, in publicspeaking class, you know
everybody's sitting there, youknow terrified shaking in the
knees, like don't make me gofirst, and then the teacher
(40:22):
calls on somebody or saysanybody, and everybody's looking
around.
I'm that girl like all right,I'll go.
So it's kind of like that thing, like I am putting myself out
there.
And when I did this book I didacknowledge those things.
The publisher said she's likeyou probably weren't an angel
all the time either, like welove you but we got to know you.
(40:44):
But you probably did some stuff, and I did, admittedly, and you
know what.
I'm not going to be ashamedabout it.
I put things out there that I'drather people didn't know about
me, you know, and things that Iregret, but I think that's part
of what makes us human, and youknow all you can do, because
(41:04):
we're all going to falter, we'reall going to stumble sometimes,
and I still do.
There are cringy moments in mylife now where I'm like, you
know, I wish that hadn't comeout of my mouth, or I wish I
hadn't said or done that, or I'min a mood today, but that's
part of who we are and we haveto embrace every aspect of
(41:24):
ourselves and give ourselvesthat forgiveness, because if you
can't love yourself, respectyourself and forgive yourself,
how the hell are you going to godo that out in the world?
You can't, and so it makes you abetter person for it.
But it's not fun, it's not nice, and healing isn't exactly what
people think it is either.
Your fairy godmother is notgoing to come, sprinkle magic
(41:45):
fairy dust on you and you'regoing to wake up and ride
rainbows and unicorns and allthat good stuff.
It's nasty and ugly and thedepths of hell will open the
ground underneath you and pullyou down under.
But if you are ready to gothere, whether through writing
or traditional talk therapy or Imean, I've seen goat yoga
(42:05):
therapy whatever, do what yougot to do, whatever speaks to
your heart, whatever do what yougot to do whatever speaks to
your heart, but definitely it issomething worth thinking about
doing.
You just have to be ready forthe challenge, because it
absolutely is.
It's dreadful, all that stuff.
Dai Manuel (42:22):
I think you know.
First of all, thank you for the, the transparency around the
good, the bad and the oh goshgosh of journaling, because I I
do.
I've had similar experienceswith journaling and yeah, and.
But I do find that when I'mhaving those down days, it's
nice to get it on paper, yeah,rather than get it out on my
kids or my wife, you know and asshrek says, better out than in.
(42:46):
So uh, you know I I'll save you,I won't burp but uh, you know
it's very much, it's one ofthose burp, but you know it's
very much, it's one of thoseexercises and it doesn't take
very much.
I'll do like maybe threeminutes in the morning, five
minutes in the afternoon, likeit, just when it's something,
when inspiration strikes, it'sjust when I got to get this crap
out of my head, you know.
Dana Diaz (43:04):
Yeah, exactly.
Dai Manuel (43:05):
I think.
Thank you for sharing that.
I think that's a wonderful 2%actionable item.
So those that are listening, Ihope you take note.
You're not journaling.
Think about journaling as acathartic exercise to get the
crap out, so you don't have toput it on anybody else.
You know.
Very true, but this has justbeen amazing and I'm like look
at the time.
I wish we had another, likefour hours.
(43:26):
We have like a Rogan episodehere, right.
But I wanted to quickly cover acouple things as we finish up
today.
Dana and I'm going to have youback when the other two books
are coming out, because I wantto come back talk about that and
talk about some of the newthings that you're working on,
because this has been just sucha wonderful conversation and
I've learned a ton, so I knoweveryone that's listening has
(43:46):
learned a ton.
But I wanted to chat realquickly about this idea of um
advocacy because I know that'spart of what you do today and
and you are, you're, you're aproud voice for those that often
don't have one and, yes,obviously you know being the
unexpected expert in our 40years of of expertise, um, you
(44:11):
know how do you approachcreating awareness and
understanding on this subjectmatter, because I I know for
many it's very triggering aswell, as a lot of people don't
want to admit it that they're.
In a relationship like this,like even around conversations
around codependency.
You know like people are veryshy oh yeah you know like no, I,
I don't enable him and I'm likeyou.
(44:31):
You know, of course, I'm usingthose types of terms that you're
used to in that, but you knowpeople are very apprehensive
about owning anything,especially on these subjects.
Right Back to the labels andthe IM statements that you
alluded to earlier.
So I'm just curious how haveyou found it best to navigate
this on this four-year journeyof really carving this path?
Dana Diaz (44:54):
I think it's just leading by example, because you
know, being that person, likeI'm the first person to say,
yeah, I was a codependent.
I think I still probably am,and I see a lot of codependent.
You know aspects of my husband,but I'm like two negatives make
a positive it's inependent.
You know aspects of my husband,but I'm like two negatives make
a positive it's in yourperspective, you know.
(45:15):
So it's about taking the labeloff and not owning the stigma
that other people put on you.
You know there's a millionthings that that I could feel
about myself, but I want to feelgood.
I want to, you know,acknowledge the fact that I've
(45:37):
made mistakes and that I haveregrets and that I still, in the
future, might say and do thingsthat aren't characteristic or
presenting the best part of me.
But I think, by by saying itout loud to other people, it's
okay not to be perfect.
I am not perfect and, as I saidin my book, as I'm cringing you
(46:01):
see my face like there arethings that I'm like, not stuff
I wanted out in the world, but Ithink that has to be.
It's again just leading byexample that for me to say I'm
perfect.
Yet here I am, I am stillfeeling good, I'm smiling,
(46:22):
despite things that happened.
Nothing awful has happened tome because I've made mistakes.
You know crap happens toeverybody, but you can still
have blessings.
You know it's just to showpeople.
You know there's more to it andthe only person that you can
(46:43):
count on to limit yourself isyou.
But the only person that canalso bring you to your full
potential is you.
You can't blame other people,you can't, and even for your own
things that you're accountablefor.
It isn't just about saying OK,yeah, oops, but I'm going to
(47:07):
move forward.
I mean, I always tell peoplelook at Walt Disney.
I mean, how many times did hego bankrupt?
How many times was he denied bydifferent banks and lenders and
financiers and even his ownfamily?
You know that that were pooingon the idea.
Dai Manuel (47:25):
He was fired from his first job as an artist.
He was fired First job, he wastold you'll never have a career
as an artist.
Can you believe?
Dana Diaz (47:34):
I'm like whoa, exactly.
But he had this vision.
He had this vision and lookwhat would have ever happened if
he had ever given up.
Because I'll tell you what, I'mpersistent, but I don't know if
I would have been as persistentas him.
I challenge everybody to lookup his story, because what would
(47:55):
this world be without a placeto take our children and spend
way too much damn money onprincess crap and Mickey Mouse
ears?
I mean, let's be real.
Although the waffles there areridiculously good If anyone goes
to the Mickey Mouse waffles,waffles there are ridiculously
good if anyone goes to, got itthe mickey mouse waffles.
But seriously, what an amazingstory.
(48:17):
But why don't we?
Why do we always think thatthat stuff only happens to
somebody else?
So here's me.
I'm, you know, I.
I'm not saying I'm nobody tofeel like a deficient person.
I'm just saying like I'm notsome celebrity, I'm not some
famous person or doctor or youknow, have some sort of wealth
(48:39):
or status.
I'm just a regular person.
And I think what people relateto is that, yeah, I'm just me
and I'm showing you the way.
And if you'll follow, you know,I'm happy to go along that
journey with you and show youwhat mine looked like, and maybe
yours is going to be a littlebit different, and that's great.
We all have to live within ourown right, but, yeah, we got to
(49:03):
go for it.
I want everybody to know thatthey can have better.
You know, even if you choose tostay in your circumstances, you
deserve better, because I don'tthink people hear that enough,
you know, and we don't tellourselves that enough.
Dai Manuel (49:22):
I think that is so well said and, yeah, I often
contend that.
You know, it's our every singleperson on this planet.
It's their birthright to behappy, joyful, joyful and live a
life that fulfills them.
You know like.
I really believe that'severyone's birthright and it's
amazing how we can do a lot, notonly for ourselves but also for
others, to prevent.
That makes sense.
(49:46):
Really, just an insightfulconversation today.
I'm so grateful to have hadthis time with you.
One little more question onadvocacy and then I got a
closing question for you.
Dana Diaz (49:56):
Closing question.
Dai Manuel (49:57):
All right, and I guess, I believe, because I know
, even just being someone thatdid a fair bit of research
before we came to thisconversation today, but also
just in general knowledge, justyou know, just general interest
I've wanted to know more aboutthis so I better understand it,
I imagine, and because Iencountered a lot of conflicting
(50:21):
views, different opinions,right, just like when we started
with the beginning.
You know about this diagnosisthat psychologists or
psychiatrists are using today tolabel people with these
disorders and which they'recalling it a disorder, and I
guess you know what are some ofthe misconceptions about
narcissistic abuse that you'reworking to dispel.
(50:45):
You know what I mean, likethrough your advocacy,
specifically, like, is thereanything that you can list?
Because I think this is a greatway for us to sort of end this,
because to get more of thatclarity on what we've been
talking about today, yeah,absolutely.
Dana Diaz (50:58):
I think the biggest misconception comes back to just
the term narcissistic abuse,because people think it is a
specific type of abuse in itselfand all it is is when a
narcissist abuses you.
So I think that's why a lot ofpeople say, oh, I don't buy this
narcissism thing.
So to that I say just look atthe abuse, because really, at
(51:21):
the end of the day, that's whatyou know.
I just want everybody toconsider how they treat other
people and I would rather thatpeople weren't abusive.
But under that umbrella of quoteunquote abuse, I am talking
about the bullies on the schoolplayground, I am talking about
the mean girl at work or thatnasty boss who takes credit for
(51:43):
all the work that you do, youknow, as their own, and in all
these things.
But again, narcissistic abuseis just when a narcissist
physically, verbally, sexually,legally, financially, you know,
however, in whatever way, isabusing you.
So you know, I've been known tosay, and I'm going to say it
(52:04):
again without the bad words butabuse is abuse and an a-hole is
an a-hole.
So I don't hear what you wantto call it, but you know it is
what it is.
Dai Manuel (52:14):
Well said.
I you know what?
I don't think it could havebeen said any more black and
white right Like that is justawesome.
I know.
I think that's exactly whateveryone needs to hear.
I needed to hear that.
I do know that I haverelationships with a few people
in my life and you know they,they definitely have those
tendencies oh yeah.
(52:35):
Um, I'm pretty good at enforcingmy boundaries around those
people now, but I wasn't alwaysthat way, right being that I've
been a people pleaser myself.
Uh, someone's very quick to sayyes because I want everybody to
like yeah.
And that stemmed from being akid, which, just like it sounds
like a lot of yours stemmed frombeing a kid as well, but then
it also repeated itself.
Dana Diaz (52:54):
But thank you for breaking the cycle you did more
than broke.
Dai Manuel (53:00):
You just just demolished it.
It have also now created abridge for others to get the
tools and resources to demolishtheir own bridges.
Dana Diaz (53:07):
Exactly.
Dai Manuel (53:09):
And I think it's just wonderful and thank you for
being here today.
This has been just amazing.
And just a quick reminder toall the listeners and viewers
Dana's links are in the shownotes.
You click show notes expandit's there, it's right there
when you're listening to this.
Okay, it's all there and it'sall hyperlinked.
To make it super easy, you justclick on the button bam, you'll
be taken to Dana's platformsand where she's putting out some
(53:32):
great content, resources links,but also there'll be links to
her book.
Definitely go pick up a copy ofthat.
If anything you heard todaytweet peeked and tweaked your
interest.
Do yourself a favor and go grabthat book.
Okay, it's a great place tobegin this conversation and and
awareness piece.
It's a great place to beginthis conversation and awareness
(53:52):
piece.
And so, dana, as I said, I hada closing question for you,
because I always like to give myguests final words, and what
I'd love to ask you is can youoffer the audience who may be in
a similar situation and arelooking for a way out or maybe
they're just beginning theirjourney of healing Any words of
advice for those individualsright now?
Dana Diaz (54:13):
Yes, I always say my big mom advice is to trust your
gut.
Listen to your gut.
Stop making excuses, stopjustifying things, stop
dismissing notions that you haveeven though you have no reason
(54:36):
to have them.
Trust your gut because usuallyit will lead you away from toxic
people.
It will lead you in anydecisions or crossroads you come
to.
It will will do you well and atthe end of the day, you don't
have to have a reason for doingor not doing, or liking somebody
(55:00):
or not liking somebody.
Just trust your gut because Ipromise you it is telling you
something.
For a reason, people don't givethe energy and the vibe their
feelings as much credit as theyreally should.
So that's what I will leave youwith.
I promise you you will live amuch better and much more
(55:23):
settled and peaceful life if youjust follow your gut.
Dai Manuel (55:28):
That was just the best advice, I think, that could
be offered based on what wetalked about today and and uh,
you know I I'm a 47 year oldcomic book nerd and I would say
we all have spidey senses.
Dana Diaz (55:41):
We don't have to be bit by a spider.
Dai Manuel (55:43):
We all got the pinguins right.
We get those, but it's amazinghow we ignore them, even in the
best or worst of times.
So thank you for the reminder.
I think that was absolutelyneeded, and thank you again for
being here, dana.
This has been wonderful.
When you have those new bookscoming out, please let us know
(56:04):
we're going to have you on theshow to come.
Tell us all about them and we'llcontinue to learn about how
you're continuing to advocateand support others that are
dealing with narcissistic abuse,and so thank you again for
everything, and can't wait tohave you back.
Dana Diaz (56:20):
Thank you so much.
Dai Manuel (56:24):
That's a wrap on a profoundly moving and empowering
episode with Dana Diaz.
Today we journey through Dana'spersonal battles and victories
against narcissistic abuse,uncovering not only the darkness
she endured but also the lightshe found in sharing her story
and helping others.
Dana's courage to reclaim herlife and health after 25 years
(56:45):
in a toxic relationship isnothing short of inspiring.
Her journey from victim tovictor, author and advocate,
highlights the transformativepower of self-awareness and the
healing that comes fromunderstanding and articulating
one's experiences For actionitems for anyone dealing with
similar challenges.
Start journaling, reflect onyour experiences, recognize the
(57:07):
patterns of abuse and, mostimportantly, seek support,
whether through friends, familyor professionals.
Finding a network that upliftsand supports you is crucial.
Let's not forget Dana's notjust talking the talk.
She's walked the walk, penningbooks that dive deep into the
psyche of narcissistic abuse,offering insights and advice to
(57:29):
those who might still be findingtheir way out of the shadows.
So if Dana's story resonatedwith you, if you feel the echoes
of her experiences in your ownlife, don't stand still.
Reach out, seek help and startyour journey towards healing.
Check out Dana's books forguidance and remember you're not
alone in this fight.
For more resources, details andto connect with Dana.
(57:51):
Make sure to visit the shownotes, where we've included all
her links.
Follow Dana on her platforms tostay updated on her work and her
new releases.
Connect, engage and be part ofa community that's turning pain
into empowerment daily.
Thanks for tuning in to the 2%Solution podcast.
Remember it only takes a smallshift to make a big difference.
So keep pushing forward, keepstriving for better and let's
(58:14):
all do our part to create aworld where abuse has no place
to hide.
Join us next time for moreinspiring stories and actionable
solutions.
Until then, keep thriving, keepgrowing and remember change
starts with you.
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