December 12, 2024 • 35 mins
What happens when a passionate prosecutor swaps the courtroom for the classroom? Join us as David shares his unexpected journey from corporate litigator to university president, driven by a love for coaching high school football. Discover how his legal and athletic experiences uniquely inform his approach to leadership in education, especially in the demanding role of managing a faith-based college. David's story is a testament to the transformative power of education and the impact of sports on young lives.
Explore the evolving landscape of higher education finance and the unique position of faith-based colleges like St. Thomas University. With college ranking systems increasingly scrutinized, we investigate the challenge for state universities to balance access and excellence. Authentic Catholic and Christian institutions are becoming attractive to students seeking education with strong values, regardless of their faith background. Hear firsthand about the financial hurdles and the unwavering commitment to maintaining educational standards in this ever-changing environment.
Leadership in higher education today isn't just about managing institutions—it's about revitalizing them. David shares his strategy for effective recruitment and fostering a shared vision for success. Learn how exceptional talent and innovative leadership can turn around educational institutions, even in the face of post-pandemic hiring challenges and a tense political climate. The conversation wraps up with a powerful reminder of the invaluable role of higher education in shaping futures and the dedication of leaders tirelessly fulfilling their educational missions amidst skepticism and uncertainty.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
David, let's talk about your journey.
How do you go from getting yourJD to becoming a high school
athletic director and theneventually a university
president?
I know I skipped some stepsalong the way, but I'd love for
you to fill those in academicuniversity present path.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
There's no doubt about it.
I wanted to be a lawyer since Iwas six years old.
So everything I did to preparemyself for a career in law you
know it was the 80s when I wasin school so I wanted to be a
corporate litigator on WallStreet.
And then a funny thing, as MelBrooks says, funny thing
happened on the way to the forum.
I started.
My high school football coachasked me to coach coach freshman
football team at my high schoolin my first year of law school
(00:48):
and he paid me $600, half of apart-time contract and I thought
I could pay for my books withthat and started coaching and
really fell in love with theability to transform young men's
lives.
And you know you could do thatquicker on the football field
than I think you can do it in aclassroom, because it is the,
(01:10):
you know, education of mind,body and spirit.
It's everything together andyou can have a direct impact.
And the second thing thathappened while I was in law
school I started working as aprosecutor In Ohio.
You can actually do that whileyou're in law school.
So I worked for the city ofLakewood.
It's the largest suburb outsideof Cleveland on the west side
(01:32):
and it was great because I wasin the courtroom every day.
I had over 70 trials before Igraduated law school and that
was a phenomenal experience.
So I liked being in thecourtroom.
So I had three legal offers onthe table when I left law school
, chucked them all and went andcoached college football for
nothing.
I was a volunteer coach I canstill hear my mother screaming
at me today but I was going tobe the first professional on
(01:53):
both sides of the family in mygeneration, but followed my
passion and in the end, you know, I thought it was football, but
it really wasn't about football.
You know I was putting peoplein jail every day and the same
people over and over again, butas a football coach I was making
a difference and so that's whatI decided to do is follow that
passion and football was thetool.
But in reality it's abouteducation.
(02:14):
You know, I'm a first genpresident.
My parents didn't get, you know, didn't get to go to college.
They raised several kids.
All went to Catholic gradeschool, catholic high school.
Four of us went throughCatholic college.
Two earned advanced degrees andthose two are working in
education today myself and myyounger sister.
And because our parents taughtus that education is the great
equalizer, and I saw that overand over and over again.
(02:38):
You know, I had a case one timewith a guy that graduated from
Harvard and won the case, andI'm just thinking you know, I
went to Cleveland State,cleveland Marshall College of
Law, and I got an education, aquality education, and you can
compete with the best, and soI've just I learned that it's
about the transformativeexperience and education and so
(03:01):
that just led me on a path tosmall, faith-based schools.
You have to have two or threefull-time jobs, especially when
you're starting out, and so Ijust had a ton of experience.
When I interviewed for my firstpresidency at Thomas More, I
was able to say that I eitherworked in or supervised every
single aspect of a collegecampus, and it's a great
training ground, you know,because you're involved in
(03:22):
everything, and so that enabledme.
I always tell people all thetime when I became a president,
that was the first time I hadone job, and so I was definitely
prepared to balance all thedifferent aspects of the
position, and so it's definitelya unique thing.
As I tell people, I came upthrough educational athletics.
Not a lot of presidents havedone that.
(03:43):
That's really cool.
It gives me an advantage, though, when I've got to deal with
athletic issues, which I tellpresidents when I speak
nationally that there's tworeasons why you get fired at a
college campus Number one, thefootball coach, number two, the
basketball coach.
So you better have a grasp ofthat.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I'm a UConn alum and I've seen that too many times.
Better have a grasp of that.
It's very, very, very.
I mean, you've caught an alarmand I've seen that too many
times.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
So I appreciate the context there, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I love what you said about being a prosecutor and
then also being on the footballfield and sort of working on
both ends of that.
That must have given you areally interesting lens into,
like, all of the things that arehappening in culture, society
et cetera, and like you'reworking from two sides of it to
prevent people and young menfrom going down paths that are,
(04:31):
you know, going to put them inone place versus another.
So that's really fascinating,absolutely.
What are some of the challengesand misconceptions people have
around running and leading afaith-based institution?
People have around running andleading a faith-based
institution.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Well, this is a very unique time being in a
faith-based institution.
You know, colleges anduniversities were actually
founded as faith-basedinstitutions and a lot of them
eventually became secular, youknow, starting out with Harvard.
And I would even say that thiscurrent administration, federal
administration, isanti-faith-based schools.
(05:10):
It's totally anti-private andit's definitely anti-faith-based
, and I believe it's because ofcontrol.
Ideology is being pushedforward and I just taught a
First Amendment class in ourconstitutional law class at the
law school, professor SiegfriedWiesner brings me in every year
(05:31):
to do usually symbolic conduct.
This time he had me talk aboutstudent speech because of all
the things that are.
First Amendment starts out withthe free establishment.
You know the ability, theestablishment of religion and
freedom of conscience, thefreedom to practice your faith.
(05:51):
Free speech is second, okay, soon the First Amendment, that
are telling faith-based schoolsyou must follow this, even
though it's against yourreligion, even though it's
against your Catholic teachingor canon law or whatever.
The faith-based Jewish schoolis how the people came after
(06:15):
them.
And that's insanity.
There's never been a time inhistory where the federal
government has said to religiousinstitutions you must do this
this way and you have noprotection of the First
Amendment and again I would sayI would argue that this country
(06:36):
was founded on the ability tothink freely, to have a freedom
of conscience.
That's why people fled England,and so this is a very unique
time.
Now, how do you deal with that?
To me, you stand strong, youstand on your principles and you
move forward.
I believe that a faith-basedliberal arts education is the
(06:57):
best education Statistics wouldprove me out and I think it's
the best education for people tolive in this country and be a
citizen of the DemocraticRepublic, and I just think that
this is a great challenge rightnow, when, especially a lot of
larger schools that are morewell-known are telling students
(07:21):
what to think, when we should beteaching them how to think.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
That's really powerful.
What have been some of thespecific decisions that you've
seen come down?
Is it presidents that you'reseeing from other, because
there's higher education lawpieces, an area where I'm weaker
.
So what are some of the sort ofpresidents that you're seeing
sort of that are coming downthat to you are really raising
your haunches up and impeding onthe First Amendment pieces?
(07:49):
And how do you see yourposition and really, as somebody
with this background in law andunderstanding the unique focus
and value proposition of afaith-based university, what do
you see your role in that interms of sort of like pushing
back on that narrative?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, I mean I'll start with the pandemic, I'll
start with HEERF money and allthat kind of stuff is, when the
money was first offered, theBiden administration said they
said that only state schools canget the money and that is a
fact.
And when the Council ofIndependent Colleges and other
private organizations challengedthem on that, saying that would
(08:31):
be the first time in historythat the federal government
delineated in higher education,delineated between private and
public, on what monies can beavailable, whether through the
student or through the schooldirectly to the school, and when
we challenged that andliterally this is in writing the
answer was they forgot.
I mean that's crazy.
(08:51):
Then you add to the fact thatTitle IX okay, where they're
demanding that we have to followthe gender ideology that is
completely inconsistent with,for sure, the Catholic faith and
other Christian-basedMuslim-based and saying, well,
if you don't do this, you'regoing to get a Title IX
(09:14):
violation, then you can get aTitle IV violation and lose your
financial aid.
And so I mean that's just, it'samazing to me.
And so you know we're kind ofdealing with the American Bar
Association.
They've had issues of goingafter not going I shouldn't use
that but having concerns withpolicies and procedures that
(09:34):
protect the mission and thefaith of the institution and
saying that you know you have tochange that and it's just.
It's a we've gone down theslippery slope that says if you
don't do it our way, then we'regoing to close you down or we're
going to punish you, or we'regoing to take away your
accreditation, or we're going totake away your financial aid or
whatever that is.
(09:54):
And again it's unprecedented.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
That is wildly, wildly troubling, troubling.
And despite that, I mean,you're seeing some amazing
growth and you're continuing tosee your brand grow and grow
nationally.
What do you attribute that to?
How have you approached thisenrollment landscape, getting
your institution to a placewhere you can see it from?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Well, for lack of a better term, I'm a turnaround
guy in this business.
I go into smaller faith-basedschools that are going to close
and turn them around, and StThomas University was going to
go through a merger, which weknow.
There's no such thing asmergers in business, there's
only acquisitions, takeovers,and when our board figured that
out, they wanted to go it alone.
Monsignor Cazalo did awonderful job for 25 years and
(10:43):
was going to manage the schoolthrough the merger, retired and
then I was hired because of myexperience at Thomas More, which
is another diocesan Catholiccollege.
There's 4,000 colleges anduniversities in this country.
There are about 240 that saythat they're Catholic, and I use
that word intentionally.
There used to be a high of 29that are diocesan and now
(11:03):
there's only eight.
I've served at two of them.
We've done some research.
We haven't found anyone that'sever done that.
So if I have any chance in hell, I'm getting a habitus because
I served at two diocesanCatholic colleges.
But I believe that you know,and what that means is we follow
the teachings of the localbishop or archbishop, Catholic
(11:24):
teaching canon law, and have adirect tie to the Vatican, which
sounds real cool for the firstthree seconds, but any time I
want to do anything with ourland we have to go through the
Vatican and they work at adifferent speed than I like to
work, which is yesterday, butit's been good.
But Thomas More was strugglingfinancially.
We turned that around.
St Thomas University found thatout, sought me out and I wasn't
(11:45):
interested.
But once I got down there, metthe board, met the students, I
saw the potential and we've hadsix straight years of record
enrollment, four years of recordfundraising, just added 400,000
square foot of new building andfield space.
We're adding another 545-beddorm with an eight-lane bowling
alley.
And I will say this I believeit's because number one, it's
(12:08):
programs, raw recruiting,financial aid leveraging.
That's the secret, not secretsauce, but that's the plan.
But in addition to that, in thiscurrent time, people, families,
students are looking foralternatives.
They're looking foralternatives to what's out there
.
And let me kind of go back upto 100,000 feet, the large state
(12:31):
land grant.
State universities were createdto be the access schools for
each state, to serve thecitizens of that state and
educate them so they could begood citizens for their state,
for the country.
Hold on one second, okay, sorryabout that.
(12:58):
So these schools were createdto be the access schools.
When I was looking at schools inthe 80s me and all my buddies
we can get into Ohio State if wecould breathe on a mirror.
Now you can't get into OhioState, okay.
Kentucky, penn State, indiana,florida State, university of
Florida.
These schools that weresupposed to be the access
(13:19):
schools have now become theelite schools in every state.
And again, I begrudge no onefor wanting to be excellent.
It's awesome that they're sogood, okay, but they're supposed
to be the access school, or whohas taken the access community
college system?
Great.
But you know there's challengesthere for students.
They sometimes don'tmatriculate through enough.
(13:41):
The placement rate and the I'msorry, not the placement's fine,
but the problem is is we're notgetting the money to to serve
that function for the state, andso that's the challenge.
And again, I begrudge no onefor excellence.
(14:01):
But if this was what it wasdesigned to do and the citizens
of that state can't even sendtheir kids to that school
because they can't get in, thenthen there's.
There's something out of whackhere, and I believe that most
people are seeing the differencein institutions that are
telling students what to thinkand the institutions are trying
to teach how to think, and Ibelieve that people are flocking
(14:24):
to authentically Catholicinstitutions, fundamentally
Christian institutions, becausethey are looking for something
different.
50% of our students at StThomas University are not
Catholic, but they come herebecause we are Catholic and we
have standards and we holdstudents to those standards and
that's why they choose us andthat's why they invest in us.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
That's really incredible and a great story
given everything that we'reseeing in the broader space.
And you know, there's a smallsliver of institutions that get
a disproportionate number ofheadlines and press coverage and
all sorts of things, when inreality it's institutions like
St Thomas focus, that areregional in focus, that are
(15:15):
teaching the vast majority ofstudents and having a
disproportionate effect on thefuture of our society, but
they're not really representedin the headlines, which I think
is problematic.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Well, you know.
And let's go to US News andWorld Report.
I hate US News and World Reportbecause I've worked at access
schools my whole life and allthey do is perpetuate the elites
.
However, in 2018, I started tolike US News and World Report
again because they came up witha category called social
mobility, which should be themost important thing that we do.
(15:48):
Well, guess who was the numberone school in the South for
social mobility?
Checking students 10 yearsafter they graduate what their
income is?
St Thomas University in Miami,florida.
Okay, well, here's the crazything.
I've been in this business nowfor 38 years.
I didn't know that.
This is what was going on inthose rankings.
The next year 2019, we're ranked92nd.
(16:11):
Well, wait a minute, what justhappened?
We were number one.
We have almost 80% students ofcolor.
We are 70% Pell eligible.
I mean, what do you mean?
We're not the social and wehave the highest salary after 10
years in the state of all theprivate schools 30 private
schools in the state.
Well, my institutionalresearcher, ir guy, eric Godin,
(16:35):
says oh well, president, you gotto understand.
Every time that a newclassification comes out, they
tweak it.
Every year, I go what do youmean they tweak it.
Well, the larger schools whoweren't on that list start
calling in, or the schools whoare more powerful call in the US
News and they change themetrics.
So what they did from year oneof 18, when I liked US News and
(16:56):
World Report the next year theysaid we cap the schools
Pell-eligible and students ofcolor at 50%.
Wow, well, I mean you'rekidding me now.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
That completely changes the methodology.
Yeah, that throws the wholething off what's going on here.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
So now I'm back to hating US News and World Report.
That's the upshot, I guess.
But we know what, the job thatwe're doing and our families
know the job that we're doingand that's why we continue to
grow.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Yeah, that's incredible.
And one thing I'm curious aboutpicking right about, just given
you've had this turnaroundbrand, I think, for yourself and
you've managed to sort of putinstitutions in a completely
different place, how do youbalance cost to value Right, and
how do you sort of balance thesort of internal operating costs
of, like delivering a greatproduct, hiring the right people
, having curriculums, that sortof signals to the right
(18:05):
employers in the right region,et cetera, et cetera, with like
really sort of delivering onthat?
How do you balance those twopieces?
Cause I'm so curious for youall, cause you're building,
you're expanding, you've gotathletic fields, you've got more
that you're sort of buildingout.
How do you think about thosetwo dynamics?
Speaker 2 (18:22):
That's a great question.
I saw that in your prelimquestions that you sent me.
That's an excellent question.
The answer is forthcoming.
In my doctoral dissertation Icreated an ethical leadership
studies program bachelor's,master's and PhD.
I'm now in that program, so Idon't know if you're old enough,
but Hair Club for Men used tohave the commercial where the
guy said not only am I a client,I'm the president.
(18:44):
So not only am I a president,I'm a student.
But when you come into asituation where it's and again.
I have to say this even thoughan institution, an educational
institution, might befinancially failing, two caveats
it doesn't mean that there'snot great people there, and the
(19:04):
second caveat is it doesn't meanthere's not great things
happening there.
It's just that somewhere alongthe line the finances got out of
control or something, and so itis fixable.
It's tough.
Some studies have shown that ittakes seven years to turn
around an educationalinstitution financially, no
matter what level or size oranything like that, and that's
because education is soentrenched in their culture, and
(19:26):
so we've been very fortunate toturn around schools pretty
quick, because we have again aplan that we use and the first
thing that we do is you got toget a hold of your sales team
and your revenue Okay.
So you got to say okay what dowe got to do to immediately get
an impact in revenue, becauseyou need money.
Secondly, then the second thingwe do is I take control of the
(19:48):
finances.
Nothing gets paid out unlessthe president signs it initially
.
Then eventually I expand thatto the CFO Okay, but you have to
, you got to find out.
Unless the president signs itinitially, then eventually I
expand that to the CFO Okay, butyou have to, you've got to find
out where the money's going.
And then you've got to makesome hard decisions.
You know, slay some sacred cowssometimes, but you've got to
balance the books.
There was a wonderful,beautiful nun who ran hospitals
(20:11):
a while ago and she had thegreatest line no margin, no
mission, no margin, no mission,no margin, no mission.
And so ultimately, you know, ina lot of smaller private
schools are trying to, you know,use fundraising to help their
budget.
You want fundraising to be forspecial projects outside of your
budget.
You must make money at yourcore function, and so that's the
first thing we concentrate onis how do we make money at your
(20:32):
core function?
And so that's the first thingwe concentrate on is how do we
make money at our core function?
And of course it's deliveringan education to students, and
more students come and morestudents pay.
We try not to raise tuition toofast.
We try to keep our costs incheck, but if you look at our
graph of what it costs toeducate a student in 2018 when I
(20:53):
got here, to what it is now andwe've been growing we actually
have lowered that cost that wespend educating that student,
but we know that we're givingthem a better education because
our test scores coming in, ourtest scores going out, are all
higher, and so that's justkeeping your eye on the ball,
being focused and getting otherpeople who are focused on
(21:15):
bringing in students, giving thebest quality education without
overspending for unnecessarythings, and then doing the
fundraising, finding people whowill invest in your winning
story, that can build you thebuildings and the fields and
those things, and that's kind ofhow we've done it.
The residence halls, though, isdifferent.
It's a different model, andthat's kind of how we've done it
.
The residence halls, though, isdifferent.
(21:35):
It's a different model.
We found a partner, uhsUniversity Housing Solutions,
where they work with mostlysmaller private schools, where
they fund the whole project tobuild a residence hall.
We lease it after 25 or 30years, depending on the size of
the project they donate back tothe school, and so it's finding
partners that are willing tocome into a school that's
(21:55):
financially struggling, knowingthat we're going to grow.
I always say this if you want tobe my partner, I don't like
vendors, I only like partners.
Three rules Number one is ifyou mess something up, I expect
you to fix it.
Number two rule for partnershipis if we screw it up, I expect
(22:17):
you to fix it.
And number three is when youask me how much money do we have
, I always say the same answerZero.
That's our budget.
Zero.
We work for God.
So now, why the heck would youwant to go into business with us
?
It's because of two thingsNumber one, I promise them that
we are going to grow andeveryone will make money.
And number two, I will be theirbest salesperson forever.
(22:38):
And I still have companies I'veworked with for five colleges
ago that that still ask me tomake phone calls for them or
close an account for them.
Or you know, when I say closelike get it, get a new account,
and so that's.
We've been very fortunate tohave wonderful partners to help
us get to where we need to be.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
That's the best answer to that question, really
concise, Really really reallygood.
I love the focus on especiallywhat you said around fundraising
and partnerships Really reallygreat.
How do you think about thetalent side as it connects to
that, because you're in such adynamic area and you have, like
(23:19):
people have, so many optionsabout where they can work and
how they can sort of dodifferent things where you are,
how do you think about creatingthose teams that, like, are
supporting that mission and thegoals that you have?
Speaker 2 (23:32):
That's a great question, Mike, because, to be
honest, any success I have as apresident and again it's we the
success that we have, it'sbecause of the we.
I'm a good recruiter, I have abeautiful wife, even though I'm
an ugly offensive lineman.
Okay, I'm a good recruiter andwhat I do is I bring in people
better than me, get obstaclesout, give them the vision and
(23:55):
then get obstacles out of theirway so they can implement the
plan and be successful, and soit is totally the reason why we
were able to turn thisinstitution around in a year and
eight months financially whenwe were on a financial warning
with SACCOC.
It's because I wasn't going totake the job unless I had carte
blanche on hiring and firing andthe board chair guaranteed that
(24:16):
to me and I was able to bringin people that I know are the
best in the business, know howto do it, the way we do it, and
that's how we've got it done.
I mean, I currently have a deanof a law school.
She was a sitting judge with alifetime appointment in Florida
and she's a graduate of our lawschool and she was always on our
board of advisors.
I knew she was a rock star andwe went out and she became our
(24:38):
dean and in just a year we hadthe largest, strongest class in
history of the school.
Our bar exams are the highestthey've ever been and it's
because she's focused on what todo and I'm getting obstacles
out of her way and so just goingout and getting great people
like that to be a part of themission and again, you have to
excite them about the vision ofwhere you want to go and but
(24:58):
bringing in people.
It's all about people.
Institutions like St ThomasUniversity and smaller faith
based institution very simplyare saved and and are successful
on the backs of people.
It used to be nuns and priestswho didn't get paid that gave
their lives to thoseinstitutions.
Well, now we have to pay people.
(25:18):
Right, we're in Miami, we gotto pay people, but we can't pay
them what the University ofMiami pays or FIU pays or
anything like that.
But they come here because ofthe mission and it's even
tougher now to hire people.
We know post-pandemicdefinitely tougher to hire
people.
Miami has a very high cost ofliving, but it is a global city.
(25:40):
It's a dynamic city.
We obviously use it to recruitpeople.
But in the end I had to learnthe hard way.
I had a great HR trustee when Iwas at Notre Dame College in
Cleveland who taught me.
She said, dave, take as muchtime you need to hire, and don't
hire if they're not the rightfit, but fire quickly, okay.
(26:03):
So if somebody's not performing, move quickly, don't wait, but
then don't.
What we've decided at STU iswe're not going to hire for a
role if we don't find the rightperson.
So many times we say, well, wedidn't have anybody else and we
got to fill the role, andsometimes that ends up being the
worst thing you can do.
You got to find the rightperson who gets it and gets the
(26:24):
mission and works the way we do.
We had a former dean of our lawschool, dean Butterworth, who
had a great line.
He said I only hire people thathave the two senses common
sense and a sense of urgency.
And I love that.
That's a great one.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Sorry about my dogs in the background my dogs are
actually barking next door too.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Oh good, okay, we got matching dogs, we got singing
dogs.
They might even be hearing oneanother here.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
I love that answer.
There's so much wisdom that Ithink debates into that piece
and I'll be using that.
Two sentences quote I thinkmoving forward, where are you
personally feeling the biggestpinch as a college president?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
I'm very concerned of the political environment.
I'm very concerned of thedivisiveness of the political
environment.
You know, in 2020, atcommencement, we had a full
commencement, you know, whenmost people were not, we had no
issues.
We did a lot of great contacttracing.
I bought every machine thatthey said out there that would
kill COVID and sprayed the roomsand sprayed the gym and all
that kind of stuff out therethat would kill COVID and
(27:33):
sprayed the rooms and sprayedthe gym and all that kind of
stuff.
But I said that 24-hour newsand social media are destroying
this country intentionally fornews ratings and clickbait, and
we have to become bridgebuilders politics, faith in our
families and there's just notenough of that going on.
You know, I'm a conservative,I'm a conservative Catholic
(27:56):
university president, but I lovemy liberal friends and I love
my liberal faculty and I love myconservative faculty.
And you got to have balance.
That's my favorite word.
Since the 2016 election, welost balance in this country and
what makes this great is thatwe find balance, no matter if we
agree to disagree or whateverthat is, and so this political
environment right now is scary.
(28:17):
It's just you have to pick aside, and I just don't think
that's good for the Americansystem.
You know, our founders said thatin order to have a
self-governing republic, thecitizens must have two traits,
two characteristics Must Virtueie morality moral code and
(28:39):
knowledge ie education.
And so, we know, for thefounders, morality and moral
code.
They felt the best way toestablish that was through the
practice of religion, practiceof faith, whether individually,
alone, in a church, in amegachurch, whatever that was,
but it was the best way, not theonly way, but the best way.
Well, we know, for the last 70years, secularism has been
(29:01):
rising, the practice of faithhas gone down.
Okay, red flag number one forour democratic republic.
Second, for the first time inmy lifetime, both sides of the
aisle don't want to fundeducation.
Well, that's scary, okay.
So red flag number two onknowledge and education.
Because the founders believed.
They believed in education ofevery form Public education,
(29:23):
private education,self-education, home education,
education for education's sake.
And so red flag number two.
I believe, at St ThomasUniversity we are educating for
virtue and knowledge and we willcontinue to do so, and I think
that we in higher education needto go back to that.
(29:44):
You know, I made a commercial inthe spring after we had the
congressional testimony of thethree lead university presidents
, and then the protestscontinued into commencement and
those students that didn't get acommencement in pandemic didn't
get a commencement for college.
To me that is unconscionable,unconscionable.
(30:06):
That's one of the greatestmoments in someone's life, and a
family's life Changesgenerations.
To come in a family.
When you get your collegedegree, you need to celebrate
that.
So I made a commercial justcalling out you know that.
That.
You know, we know that thehigher education is now getting
down to the level of politiciansas far as this, this, this
satisfaction, and so that highereducation has always been at
(30:30):
the top of satisfaction rate inthis country.
And that's scary.
And I called it out and saidlisten again, we're teaching
students, we're telling studentswhat to think and not teaching
them how to think.
And at St Thomas University, Ibelieve that we're teaching
students how to think critically, how to think for themselves
(30:50):
and understand.
You know, to seek out the truthno matter where it takes you,
and that's the Catholicintellectual tradition.
And so we're going to do thatat St Thomas University and
continue to do that.
And so I think that's achallenge is that people are
picking sides and there's onlytheir way or the highway, and
that's.
That's not what education isabout.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Maybe as a way to close.
What are you excited about?
I see so many positive thingsthat you're doing.
I couldn't agree more.
I support the co-publicationwhich, I feel like, is
unfortunately giving away everyaspect of our work.
What gets you optimistic?
What gets you hopeful?
What are you excited for?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Well as scary as ai is artificial intelligence.
This will be as big as thecreation of the internet.
This will be bigger, actuallyartificial intelligence.
And I guess where my excitementcomes in if, and I'm hoping, st
thomas university takes the leadin creating the ethical
(31:53):
guidelines and standards andprocedures and policies and
procedures on using AI in aquality way because of our
Institute for Ethical Leadership, our College of Law, Criminal
Justice, all the differentacademic programs, we are
bringing them together to startestablishing those core
guidelines for the ethical useof AI.
I'm a digital immigrant.
(32:16):
The younger generations I'mteaching now are digital natives
.
I believe that if we can givethem the right guidelines and
ethical standards, they willknow how to take AI and use it
in the best way possible toadvance civilization.
That excites me.
Okay, and what excites me isseeing young people today,
(32:36):
despite all the problems and allthe baloney on the news and in
social media, rising above allof that baloney and still
succeeding and getting theirdegrees and making their lives,
of their families forgenerations to come different
and being wonderful young people.
That is what excites me.
It's why I do what I do everyday and I just believe that if
(33:02):
students have a good grounding,they have a good moral code for
me personally.
If they believe in God andbelieve in something bigger than
themselves, we'll be able toharness AI and use it to advance
civilization.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Great sentiment, awesome voice.
David, thank you.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Mike, I appreciate what you do and I appreciate you
having people talk about thesevery important issues and
especially the importance ofhigher education.
No matter what the politicianssay or media says, it is still
the best investment anyone canmake in their lifetime and we
will continue to do the greatwork that our mission calls for,
and I commend all the otherleaders in higher education that
(33:44):
are navigating this sometimesmadness and doing a great job of
educating students.
I can agree, mark.
David, let's talk about your journey.
How do you go from getting yourJD to becoming a high school
athletic director and theneventually a university
president?
I know I skipped some stepsalong the way, but I'd love for
you to fill those in academicuniversity present path.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
There's no doubt about it.
I wanted to be a lawyer since Iwas six years old.
So everything I did to preparemyself for a career in law you
know it was the 80s when I wasin school so I wanted to be a
corporate litigator on WallStreet.
And then a funny thing, as MelBrooks says, funny thing
happened on the way to the forum.
I started.
My high school football coachasked me to coach coach freshman
football team at my high schoolin my first year of law school
(00:48):
and he paid me $600, half of apart-time contract and I thought
I could pay for my books withthat and started coaching and
really fell in love with theability to transform young men's
lives.
And you know you could do thatquicker on the football field
than I think you can do it in aclassroom, because it is the,
(01:10):
you know, education of mind,body and spirit.
It's everything together andyou can have a direct impact.
And the second thing thathappened while I was in law
school I started working as aprosecutor In Ohio.
You can actually do that whileyou're in law school.
So I worked for the city ofLakewood.
It's the largest suburb outsideof Cleveland on the west side
(01:32):
and it was great because I wasin the courtroom every day.
I had over 70 trials before Igraduated law school and that
was a phenomenal experience.
So I liked being in thecourtroom.
So I had three legal offers onthe table when I left law school
, chucked them all and went andcoached college football for
nothing.
I was a volunteer coach I canstill hear my mother screaming
at me today but I was going tobe the first professional on
(01:53):
both sides of the family in mygeneration, but followed my
passion and in the end, you know, I thought it was football, but
it really wasn't about football.
You know I was putting peoplein jail every day and the same
people over and over again, butas a football coach I was making
a difference and so that's whatI decided to do is follow that
passion and football was thetool.
But in reality it's abouteducation.
(02:14):
You know, I'm a first genpresident.
My parents didn't get, you know, didn't get to go to college.
They raised several kids.
All went to Catholic gradeschool, catholic high school.
Four of us went throughCatholic college.
Two earned advanced degrees andthose two are working in
education today myself and myyounger sister.
And because our parents taughtus that education is the great
equalizer, and I saw that overand over and over again.
(02:38):
You know, I had a case one timewith a guy that graduated from
Harvard and won the case, andI'm just thinking you know, I
went to Cleveland State,cleveland Marshall College of
Law, and I got an education, aquality education, and you can
compete with the best, and soI've just I learned that it's
about the transformativeexperience and education and so
(03:01):
that just led me on a path tosmall, faith-based schools.
You have to have two or threefull-time jobs, especially when
you're starting out, and so Ijust had a ton of experience.
When I interviewed for my firstpresidency at Thomas More, I
was able to say that I eitherworked in or supervised every
single aspect of a collegecampus, and it's a great
training ground, you know,because you're involved in
(03:22):
everything, and so that enabledme.
I always tell people all thetime when I became a president,
that was the first time I hadone job, and so I was definitely
prepared to balance all thedifferent aspects of the
position, and so it's definitelya unique thing.
As I tell people, I came upthrough educational athletics.
Not a lot of presidents havedone that.
(03:43):
That's really cool.
It gives me an advantage, though, when I've got to deal with
athletic issues, which I tellpresidents when I speak
nationally that there's tworeasons why you get fired at a
college campus Number one, thefootball coach, number two, the
basketball coach.
So you better have a grasp ofthat.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I'm a UConn alum and I've seen that too many times.
Better have a grasp of that.
It's very, very, very.
I mean, you've caught an alarmand I've seen that too many
times.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
So I appreciate the context there, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I love what you said about being a prosecutor and
then also being on the footballfield and sort of working on
both ends of that.
That must have given you areally interesting lens into,
like, all of the things that arehappening in culture, society
et cetera, and like you'reworking from two sides of it to
prevent people and young menfrom going down paths that are,
(04:31):
you know, going to put them inone place versus another.
So that's really fascinating,absolutely.
What are some of the challengesand misconceptions people have
around running and leading afaith-based institution?
People have around running andleading a faith-based
institution.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Well, this is a very unique time being in a
faith-based institution.
You know, colleges anduniversities were actually
founded as faith-basedinstitutions and a lot of them
eventually became secular, youknow, starting out with Harvard.
And I would even say that thiscurrent administration, federal
administration, isanti-faith-based schools.
(05:10):
It's totally anti-private andit's definitely anti-faith-based
, and I believe it's because ofcontrol.
Ideology is being pushedforward and I just taught a
First Amendment class in ourconstitutional law class at the
law school, professor SiegfriedWiesner brings me in every year
(05:31):
to do usually symbolic conduct.
This time he had me talk aboutstudent speech because of all
the things that are.
First Amendment starts out withthe free establishment.
You know the ability, theestablishment of religion and
freedom of conscience, thefreedom to practice your faith.
(05:51):
Free speech is second, okay, soon the First Amendment, that
are telling faith-based schoolsyou must follow this, even
though it's against yourreligion, even though it's
against your Catholic teachingor canon law or whatever.
The faith-based Jewish schoolis how the people came after
(06:15):
them.
And that's insanity.
There's never been a time inhistory where the federal
government has said to religiousinstitutions you must do this
this way and you have noprotection of the First
Amendment and again I would sayI would argue that this country
(06:36):
was founded on the ability tothink freely, to have a freedom
of conscience.
That's why people fled England,and so this is a very unique
time.
Now, how do you deal with that?
To me, you stand strong, youstand on your principles and you
move forward.
I believe that a faith-basedliberal arts education is the
(06:57):
best education Statistics wouldprove me out and I think it's
the best education for people tolive in this country and be a
citizen of the DemocraticRepublic, and I just think that
this is a great challenge rightnow, when, especially a lot of
larger schools that are morewell-known are telling students
(07:21):
what to think, when we should beteaching them how to think.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
That's really powerful.
What have been some of thespecific decisions that you've
seen come down?
Is it presidents that you'reseeing from other, because
there's higher education lawpieces, an area where I'm weaker
.
So what are some of the sort ofpresidents that you're seeing
sort of that are coming downthat to you are really raising
your haunches up and impeding onthe First Amendment pieces?
(07:49):
And how do you see yourposition and really, as somebody
with this background in law andunderstanding the unique focus
and value proposition of afaith-based university, what do
you see your role in that interms of sort of like pushing
back on that narrative?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, I mean I'll start with the pandemic, I'll
start with HEERF money and allthat kind of stuff is, when the
money was first offered, theBiden administration said they
said that only state schools canget the money and that is a
fact.
And when the Council ofIndependent Colleges and other
private organizations challengedthem on that, saying that would
(08:31):
be the first time in historythat the federal government
delineated in higher education,delineated between private and
public, on what monies can beavailable, whether through the
student or through the schooldirectly to the school, and when
we challenged that andliterally this is in writing the
answer was they forgot.
I mean that's crazy.
(08:51):
Then you add to the fact thatTitle IX okay, where they're
demanding that we have to followthe gender ideology that is
completely inconsistent with,for sure, the Catholic faith and
other Christian-basedMuslim-based and saying, well,
if you don't do this, you'regoing to get a Title IX
(09:14):
violation, then you can get aTitle IV violation and lose your
financial aid.
And so I mean that's just, it'samazing to me.
And so you know we're kind ofdealing with the American Bar
Association.
They've had issues of goingafter not going I shouldn't use
that but having concerns withpolicies and procedures that
(09:34):
protect the mission and thefaith of the institution and
saying that you know you have tochange that and it's just.
It's a we've gone down theslippery slope that says if you
don't do it our way, then we'regoing to close you down or we're
going to punish you, or we'regoing to take away your
accreditation, or we're going totake away your financial aid or
whatever that is.
(09:54):
And again it's unprecedented.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
That is wildly, wildly troubling, troubling.
And despite that, I mean,you're seeing some amazing
growth and you're continuing tosee your brand grow and grow
nationally.
What do you attribute that to?
How have you approached thisenrollment landscape, getting
your institution to a placewhere you can see it from?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Well, for lack of a better term, I'm a turnaround
guy in this business.
I go into smaller faith-basedschools that are going to close
and turn them around, and StThomas University was going to
go through a merger, which weknow.
There's no such thing asmergers in business, there's
only acquisitions, takeovers,and when our board figured that
out, they wanted to go it alone.
Monsignor Cazalo did awonderful job for 25 years and
(10:43):
was going to manage the schoolthrough the merger, retired and
then I was hired because of myexperience at Thomas More, which
is another diocesan Catholiccollege.
There's 4,000 colleges anduniversities in this country.
There are about 240 that saythat they're Catholic, and I use
that word intentionally.
There used to be a high of 29that are diocesan and now
(11:03):
there's only eight.
I've served at two of them.
We've done some research.
We haven't found anyone that'sever done that.
So if I have any chance in hell, I'm getting a habitus because
I served at two diocesanCatholic colleges.
But I believe that you know,and what that means is we follow
the teachings of the localbishop or archbishop, Catholic
(11:24):
teaching canon law, and have adirect tie to the Vatican, which
sounds real cool for the firstthree seconds, but any time I
want to do anything with ourland we have to go through the
Vatican and they work at adifferent speed than I like to
work, which is yesterday, butit's been good.
But Thomas More was strugglingfinancially.
We turned that around.
St Thomas University found thatout, sought me out and I wasn't
(11:45):
interested.
But once I got down there, metthe board, met the students, I
saw the potential and we've hadsix straight years of record
enrollment, four years of recordfundraising, just added 400,000
square foot of new building andfield space.
We're adding another 545-beddorm with an eight-lane bowling
alley.
And I will say this I believeit's because number one, it's
(12:08):
programs, raw recruiting,financial aid leveraging.
That's the secret, not secretsauce, but that's the plan.
But in addition to that, in thiscurrent time, people, families,
students are looking foralternatives.
They're looking foralternatives to what's out there
.
And let me kind of go back upto 100,000 feet, the large state
(12:31):
land grant.
State universities were createdto be the access schools for
each state, to serve thecitizens of that state and
educate them so they could begood citizens for their state,
for the country.
Hold on one second, okay, sorryabout that.
(12:58):
So these schools were createdto be the access schools.
When I was looking at schools inthe 80s me and all my buddies
we can get into Ohio State if wecould breathe on a mirror.
Now you can't get into OhioState, okay.
Kentucky, penn State, indiana,florida State, university of
Florida.
These schools that weresupposed to be the access
(13:19):
schools have now become theelite schools in every state.
And again, I begrudge no onefor wanting to be excellent.
It's awesome that they're sogood, okay, but they're supposed
to be the access school, or whohas taken the access community
college system?
Great.
But you know there's challengesthere for students.
They sometimes don'tmatriculate through enough.
(13:41):
The placement rate and the I'msorry, not the placement's fine,
but the problem is is we're notgetting the money to to serve
that function for the state, andso that's the challenge.
And again, I begrudge no onefor excellence.
(14:01):
But if this was what it wasdesigned to do and the citizens
of that state can't even sendtheir kids to that school
because they can't get in, thenthen there's.
There's something out of whackhere, and I believe that most
people are seeing the differencein institutions that are
telling students what to thinkand the institutions are trying
to teach how to think, and Ibelieve that people are flocking
(14:24):
to authentically Catholicinstitutions, fundamentally
Christian institutions, becausethey are looking for something
different.
50% of our students at StThomas University are not
Catholic, but they come herebecause we are Catholic and we
have standards and we holdstudents to those standards and
that's why they choose us andthat's why they invest in us.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
That's really incredible and a great story
given everything that we'reseeing in the broader space.
And you know, there's a smallsliver of institutions that get
a disproportionate number ofheadlines and press coverage and
all sorts of things, when inreality it's institutions like
St Thomas focus, that areregional in focus, that are
(15:15):
teaching the vast majority ofstudents and having a
disproportionate effect on thefuture of our society, but
they're not really representedin the headlines, which I think
is problematic.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Well, you know.
And let's go to US News andWorld Report.
I hate US News and World Reportbecause I've worked at access
schools my whole life and allthey do is perpetuate the elites
.
However, in 2018, I started tolike US News and World Report
again because they came up witha category called social
mobility, which should be themost important thing that we do.
(15:48):
Well, guess who was the numberone school in the South for
social mobility?
Checking students 10 yearsafter they graduate what their
income is?
St Thomas University in Miami,florida.
Okay, well, here's the crazything.
I've been in this business nowfor 38 years.
I didn't know that.
This is what was going on inthose rankings.
The next year 2019, we're ranked92nd.
(16:11):
Well, wait a minute, what justhappened?
We were number one.
We have almost 80% students ofcolor.
We are 70% Pell eligible.
I mean, what do you mean?
We're not the social and wehave the highest salary after 10
years in the state of all theprivate schools 30 private
schools in the state.
Well, my institutionalresearcher, ir guy, eric Godin,
(16:35):
says oh well, president, you gotto understand.
Every time that a newclassification comes out, they
tweak it.
Every year, I go what do youmean they tweak it.
Well, the larger schools whoweren't on that list start
calling in, or the schools whoare more powerful call in the US
News and they change themetrics.
So what they did from year oneof 18, when I liked US News and
(16:56):
World Report the next year theysaid we cap the schools
Pell-eligible and students ofcolor at 50%.
Wow, well, I mean you'rekidding me now.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
That completely changes the methodology.
Yeah, that throws the wholething off what's going on here.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
So now I'm back to hating US News and World Report.
That's the upshot, I guess.
But we know what, the job thatwe're doing and our families
know the job that we're doingand that's why we continue to
grow.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Yeah, that's incredible.
And one thing I'm curious aboutpicking right about, just given
you've had this turnaroundbrand, I think, for yourself and
you've managed to sort of putinstitutions in a completely
different place, how do youbalance cost to value Right, and
how do you sort of balance thesort of internal operating costs
of, like delivering a greatproduct, hiring the right people
, having curriculums, that sortof signals to the right
(18:05):
employers in the right region,et cetera, et cetera, with like
really sort of delivering onthat?
How do you balance those twopieces?
Cause I'm so curious for youall, cause you're building,
you're expanding, you've gotathletic fields, you've got more
that you're sort of buildingout.
How do you think about thosetwo dynamics?
Speaker 2 (18:22):
That's a great question.
I saw that in your prelimquestions that you sent me.
That's an excellent question.
The answer is forthcoming.
In my doctoral dissertation Icreated an ethical leadership
studies program bachelor's,master's and PhD.
I'm now in that program, so Idon't know if you're old enough,
but Hair Club for Men used tohave the commercial where the
guy said not only am I a client,I'm the president.
(18:44):
So not only am I a president,I'm a student.
But when you come into asituation where it's and again.
I have to say this even thoughan institution, an educational
institution, might befinancially failing, two caveats
it doesn't mean that there'snot great people there, and the
(19:04):
second caveat is it doesn't meanthere's not great things
happening there.
It's just that somewhere alongthe line the finances got out of
control or something, and so itis fixable.
It's tough.
Some studies have shown that ittakes seven years to turn
around an educationalinstitution financially, no
matter what level or size oranything like that, and that's
because education is soentrenched in their culture, and
(19:26):
so we've been very fortunate toturn around schools pretty
quick, because we have again aplan that we use and the first
thing that we do is you got toget a hold of your sales team
and your revenue Okay.
So you got to say okay what dowe got to do to immediately get
an impact in revenue, becauseyou need money.
Secondly, then the second thingwe do is I take control of the
(19:48):
finances.
Nothing gets paid out unlessthe president signs it initially
.
Then eventually I expand thatto the CFO Okay, but you have to
, you got to find out.
Unless the president signs itinitially, then eventually I
expand that to the CFO Okay, butyou have to, you've got to find
out where the money's going.
And then you've got to makesome hard decisions.
You know, slay some sacred cowssometimes, but you've got to
balance the books.
There was a wonderful,beautiful nun who ran hospitals
(20:11):
a while ago and she had thegreatest line no margin, no
mission, no margin, no mission,no margin, no mission.
And so ultimately, you know, ina lot of smaller private
schools are trying to, you know,use fundraising to help their
budget.
You want fundraising to be forspecial projects outside of your
budget.
You must make money at yourcore function, and so that's the
first thing we concentrate onis how do we make money at your
(20:32):
core function?
And so that's the first thingwe concentrate on is how do we
make money at our core function?
And of course it's deliveringan education to students, and
more students come and morestudents pay.
We try not to raise tuition toofast.
We try to keep our costs incheck, but if you look at our
graph of what it costs toeducate a student in 2018 when I
(20:53):
got here, to what it is now andwe've been growing we actually
have lowered that cost that wespend educating that student,
but we know that we're givingthem a better education because
our test scores coming in, ourtest scores going out, are all
higher, and so that's justkeeping your eye on the ball,
being focused and getting otherpeople who are focused on
(21:15):
bringing in students, giving thebest quality education without
overspending for unnecessarythings, and then doing the
fundraising, finding people whowill invest in your winning
story, that can build you thebuildings and the fields and
those things, and that's kind ofhow we've done it.
The residence halls, though, isdifferent.
It's a different model, andthat's kind of how we've done it
.
The residence halls, though, isdifferent.
(21:35):
It's a different model.
We found a partner, uhsUniversity Housing Solutions,
where they work with mostlysmaller private schools, where
they fund the whole project tobuild a residence hall.
We lease it after 25 or 30years, depending on the size of
the project they donate back tothe school, and so it's finding
partners that are willing tocome into a school that's
(21:55):
financially struggling, knowingthat we're going to grow.
I always say this if you want tobe my partner, I don't like
vendors, I only like partners.
Three rules Number one is ifyou mess something up, I expect
you to fix it.
Number two rule for partnershipis if we screw it up, I expect
(22:17):
you to fix it.
And number three is when youask me how much money do we have
, I always say the same answerZero.
That's our budget.
Zero.
We work for God.
So now, why the heck would youwant to go into business with us
?
It's because of two thingsNumber one, I promise them that
we are going to grow andeveryone will make money.
And number two, I will be theirbest salesperson forever.
(22:38):
And I still have companies I'veworked with for five colleges
ago that that still ask me tomake phone calls for them or
close an account for them.
Or you know, when I say closelike get it, get a new account,
and so that's.
We've been very fortunate tohave wonderful partners to help
us get to where we need to be.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
That's the best answer to that question, really
concise, Really really reallygood.
I love the focus on especiallywhat you said around fundraising
and partnerships Really reallygreat.
How do you think about thetalent side as it connects to
that, because you're in such adynamic area and you have, like
(23:19):
people have, so many optionsabout where they can work and
how they can sort of dodifferent things where you are,
how do you think about creatingthose teams that, like, are
supporting that mission and thegoals that you have?
Speaker 2 (23:32):
That's a great question, Mike, because, to be
honest, any success I have as apresident and again it's we the
success that we have, it'sbecause of the we.
I'm a good recruiter, I have abeautiful wife, even though I'm
an ugly offensive lineman.
Okay, I'm a good recruiter andwhat I do is I bring in people
better than me, get obstaclesout, give them the vision and
(23:55):
then get obstacles out of theirway so they can implement the
plan and be successful, and soit is totally the reason why we
were able to turn thisinstitution around in a year and
eight months financially whenwe were on a financial warning
with SACCOC.
It's because I wasn't going totake the job unless I had carte
blanche on hiring and firing andthe board chair guaranteed that
(24:16):
to me and I was able to bringin people that I know are the
best in the business, know howto do it, the way we do it, and
that's how we've got it done.
I mean, I currently have a deanof a law school.
She was a sitting judge with alifetime appointment in Florida
and she's a graduate of our lawschool and she was always on our
board of advisors.
I knew she was a rock star andwe went out and she became our
(24:38):
dean and in just a year we hadthe largest, strongest class in
history of the school.
Our bar exams are the highestthey've ever been and it's
because she's focused on what todo and I'm getting obstacles
out of her way and so just goingout and getting great people
like that to be a part of themission and again, you have to
excite them about the vision ofwhere you want to go and but
(24:58):
bringing in people.
It's all about people.
Institutions like St ThomasUniversity and smaller faith
based institution very simplyare saved and and are successful
on the backs of people.
It used to be nuns and priestswho didn't get paid that gave
their lives to thoseinstitutions.
Well, now we have to pay people.
(25:18):
Right, we're in Miami, we gotto pay people, but we can't pay
them what the University ofMiami pays or FIU pays or
anything like that.
But they come here because ofthe mission and it's even
tougher now to hire people.
We know post-pandemicdefinitely tougher to hire
people.
Miami has a very high cost ofliving, but it is a global city.
(25:40):
It's a dynamic city.
We obviously use it to recruitpeople.
But in the end I had to learnthe hard way.
I had a great HR trustee when Iwas at Notre Dame College in
Cleveland who taught me.
She said, dave, take as muchtime you need to hire, and don't
hire if they're not the rightfit, but fire quickly, okay.
(26:03):
So if somebody's not performing, move quickly, don't wait, but
then don't.
What we've decided at STU iswe're not going to hire for a
role if we don't find the rightperson.
So many times we say, well, wedidn't have anybody else and we
got to fill the role, andsometimes that ends up being the
worst thing you can do.
You got to find the rightperson who gets it and gets the
(26:24):
mission and works the way we do.
We had a former dean of our lawschool, dean Butterworth, who
had a great line.
He said I only hire people thathave the two senses common
sense and a sense of urgency.
And I love that.
That's a great one.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Sorry about my dogs in the background my dogs are
actually barking next door too.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Oh good, okay, we got matching dogs, we got singing
dogs.
They might even be hearing oneanother here.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
I love that answer.
There's so much wisdom that Ithink debates into that piece
and I'll be using that.
Two sentences quote I thinkmoving forward, where are you
personally feeling the biggestpinch as a college president?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
I'm very concerned of the political environment.
I'm very concerned of thedivisiveness of the political
environment.
You know, in 2020, atcommencement, we had a full
commencement, you know, whenmost people were not, we had no
issues.
We did a lot of great contacttracing.
I bought every machine thatthey said out there that would
kill COVID and sprayed the roomsand sprayed the gym and all
that kind of stuff out therethat would kill COVID and
(27:33):
sprayed the rooms and sprayedthe gym and all that kind of
stuff.
But I said that 24-hour newsand social media are destroying
this country intentionally fornews ratings and clickbait, and
we have to become bridgebuilders politics, faith in our
families and there's just notenough of that going on.
You know, I'm a conservative,I'm a conservative Catholic
(27:56):
university president, but I lovemy liberal friends and I love
my liberal faculty and I love myconservative faculty.
And you got to have balance.
That's my favorite word.
Since the 2016 election, welost balance in this country and
what makes this great is thatwe find balance, no matter if we
agree to disagree or whateverthat is, and so this political
environment right now is scary.
(28:17):
It's just you have to pick aside, and I just don't think
that's good for the Americansystem.
You know, our founders said thatin order to have a
self-governing republic, thecitizens must have two traits,
two characteristics Must Virtueie morality moral code and
(28:39):
knowledge ie education.
And so, we know, for thefounders, morality and moral
code.
They felt the best way toestablish that was through the
practice of religion, practiceof faith, whether individually,
alone, in a church, in amegachurch, whatever that was,
but it was the best way, not theonly way, but the best way.
Well, we know, for the last 70years, secularism has been
(29:01):
rising, the practice of faithhas gone down.
Okay, red flag number one forour democratic republic.
Second, for the first time inmy lifetime, both sides of the
aisle don't want to fundeducation.
Well, that's scary, okay.
So red flag number two onknowledge and education.
Because the founders believed.
They believed in education ofevery form Public education,
(29:23):
private education,self-education, home education,
education for education's sake.
And so red flag number two.
I believe, at St ThomasUniversity we are educating for
virtue and knowledge and we willcontinue to do so, and I think
that we in higher education needto go back to that.
(29:44):
You know, I made a commercial inthe spring after we had the
congressional testimony of thethree lead university presidents
, and then the protestscontinued into commencement and
those students that didn't get acommencement in pandemic didn't
get a commencement for college.
To me that is unconscionable,unconscionable.
(30:06):
That's one of the greatestmoments in someone's life, and a
family's life Changesgenerations.
To come in a family.
When you get your collegedegree, you need to celebrate
that.
So I made a commercial justcalling out you know that.
That.
You know, we know that thehigher education is now getting
down to the level of politiciansas far as this, this, this
satisfaction, and so that highereducation has always been at
(30:30):
the top of satisfaction rate inthis country.
And that's scary.
And I called it out and saidlisten again, we're teaching
students, we're telling studentswhat to think and not teaching
them how to think.
And at St Thomas University, Ibelieve that we're teaching
students how to think critically, how to think for themselves
(30:50):
and understand.
You know, to seek out the truthno matter where it takes you,
and that's the Catholicintellectual tradition.
And so we're going to do thatat St Thomas University and
continue to do that.
And so I think that's achallenge is that people are
picking sides and there's onlytheir way or the highway, and
that's.
That's not what education isabout.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Maybe as a way to close.
What are you excited about?
I see so many positive thingsthat you're doing.
I couldn't agree more.
I support the co-publicationwhich, I feel like, is
unfortunately giving away everyaspect of our work.
What gets you optimistic?
What gets you hopeful?
What are you excited for?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Well as scary as ai is artificial intelligence.
This will be as big as thecreation of the internet.
This will be bigger, actuallyartificial intelligence.
And I guess where my excitementcomes in if, and I'm hoping, st
thomas university takes the leadin creating the ethical
(31:53):
guidelines and standards andprocedures and policies and
procedures on using AI in aquality way because of our
Institute for Ethical Leadership, our College of Law, Criminal
Justice, all the differentacademic programs, we are
bringing them together to startestablishing those core
guidelines for the ethical useof AI.
I'm a digital immigrant.
(32:16):
The younger generations I'mteaching now are digital natives
.
I believe that if we can givethem the right guidelines and
ethical standards, they willknow how to take AI and use it
in the best way possible toadvance civilization.
That excites me.
Okay, and what excites me isseeing young people today,
(32:36):
despite all the problems and allthe baloney on the news and in
social media, rising above allof that baloney and still
succeeding and getting theirdegrees and making their lives,
of their families forgenerations to come different
and being wonderful young people.
That is what excites me.
It's why I do what I do everyday and I just believe that if
(33:02):
students have a good grounding,they have a good moral code for
me personally.
If they believe in God andbelieve in something bigger than
themselves, we'll be able toharness AI and use it to advance
civilization.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Great sentiment, awesome voice.
David, thank you.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Mike, I appreciate what you do and I appreciate you
having people talk about thesevery important issues and
especially the importance ofhigher education.
No matter what the politicianssay or media says, it is still
the best investment anyone canmake in their lifetime and we
will continue to do the greatwork that our mission calls for,
and I commend all the otherleaders in higher education that
(33:44):
are navigating this sometimesmadness and doing a great job of
educating students.
I can agree, mark.
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